FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Dr. Heather Lynn

Tonight, author and researcher Dr. Heather Lynn joins us to discuss her new book, The Anunnaki Revelation... which releases on Feb 2nd, 2026. Tonight it's all Anunnaki all night long!!!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:27):
This Hope radio for the NASSIS headline of July eighth,
nineteen forty seven. The Yauni Air Force has an outstart
applying this turpens found and there's now in the possession
of the yard air with.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
The game and really changed the game game.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would
vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside
this work.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
This is Day to Black.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's your host, Jimmy Church on the Game Changer Radio Network.
All right, how you doing fade to black? Yeah, man,
Today's Tuesday, December ninth, twenty twenty five. Let's do this man.

(01:25):
I'm your Jimmy Church. This week. I'm fade to Black.
Another great week. It's always great around here. Last night
John Olsen was with us and his book series Stranger Bridgerland. Tonight,
doctor Heather Lynn is back with us. It's an Ananaki evening.
Tomorrow night. Gary Hazelteine joins us from the UK. We're
gonna talk about Rendel Shim Thursday night. Filmmaker Jason Kenzie

(01:47):
joins us. You've watched his stuff Searching for Sasquatch. He's amazing,
and so it's all Bigfoot all night long on Thursday. Wow,
what an amazing week. And I've got doctor Heatherlin in
here tonight. I want to remind everybody my next event
coming up is this February, the Conscious Life Expo February

(02:10):
twentyth through the twenty third, twenty twenty six, right here
in Los Angeles at the lax Hilton. The links for
that are below. All Right, all right, I had something
fun I was going to mention and it was kind
of tied into Heather and I little talk before the show.

(02:33):
I'm gonna hold I'm gonna hold that one back. Yeah boop,
I'm gonna hold that one back. But yeah, if you
guys only knew, If you guys only knew, Doctor Heatherln
is here tonight. Her new book, The Ananaki Revelation is
available now for pre order. It is out on February second.

(02:55):
We have the links for that below. All of her
books are available, including The Ananaki Connection, which I have.
It is an amazing book. She has been a frequent
guest here on Fate to Block and I haven't seen
Heather in a while though, but she is back with
us tonight and we are going to discuss her new book,
The ananach revelation and it's a different take on the Ananaki,

(03:22):
and we are going to do the deep dive tonight.
I am very excited about this discussion. We all know
she's an internationally published author. She's a symbologist. She deals
with ancient myths and hidden knowledge, and she has spent
decades working on this and I remember the first remember

(03:44):
the first time I had her on the show, and
which I'll have to ask her about this, but it
was probably ten, maybe eleven, twelve years ago and the
first time she was on the show, and the way
that we were able to share ideas and communicate in
that conversation just set the tone for a friendship that
has lasted for a very long time. I have a

(04:05):
very deep respect for her and how she approaches all
of this, and we're going to get into it tonight
with the Ananaki. Her links for everything are below, on
our website and throughout social media. I would like to
welcome back to Fade to Black, the one and Norly
doctor Heather Lynn, and she's right there, Heather. What's going on?

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Nothing much?

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Nothing much, nothing, A couple of books, yeah, book, But
it's been a minute.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
How have you been, Yeah, I've been busy, you know,
hanging in there.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
I had a really interesting year. You can read about
it on my substack. It was a wild year of
what I called blood flood and just fire.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
It was.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
It was pretty wild. So that that's a whole other
story in and of itself. But you know, there's been
a lot of talk in the media these days about
spiritual att acts, and I have a lot of people
who have claimed that that's what I was going through
given my strange set of circumstances. So hey, I'm here
for it. So but things are good. Things are good,
been real busy, so.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
I'm alive.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, you know. Okay, so you open the door to this,
So let's start right there. When people have these experiences
and if they're brave enough to talk about them, there
are those out there that go, man, no, I'm not
buying into it. Then there's others that understand, maybe show

(05:39):
some empathy towards it too as well. But these things
can be pretty crazy, can't they. And it's a very
real thing that you have to deal with. And then
it's your family, it's the trauma, and it's the other
emotional stuff that goes along with it. Where is this
ever going to end.

Speaker 5 (06:00):
Right.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
That's that pretty much sums it up, doesn't it.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
It does, actually, And if you're somebody who you know,
I don't necessarily call myself skeptical because that just paints
a whole other debunker sort of mythos that I don't
subscribe to. But I am someone that needs a lot
more evidence, And so I wouldn't have thought necessarily I
was going through any sort of spiritual attack. But you know,
sometimes you just see things, you experience things, and it

(06:24):
seems to work. It fits so, And it was right
off the tails of you know, writing the Baphomet book
and going on tour for that, encountering some interesting folks
and maybe making some people angry along the way, and
experience in some things that when I say I had
flood fire, I literally had. I had a tornado at
the house. Then we had a floodment. There was fire

(06:47):
in the basement.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
It was on the basement, which is like spooky, of course,
the basement.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
But my house is like one hundred and sixty some
years old, so it's an old Victorian home, but it's
all updated, but it's it was so and then I
had like a strange like medical problem where I had
just a nose bleed that sent me to the like
random nose bleed that sent me to the hospital, and
I thought, how strange is that. I kept saying to

(07:11):
the emergency room physician, this is not a big deal, right,
I mean, you can stop the bleeding. I'm sure you
can stick one of those like football player tampons at
my nose or something, right, And they couldn't. They had
to call critical care. I was about bleeding out. They
couldn't find the.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Source of the blood.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
They had to put this thing called this is like
really great talking about the on and I but we'll
have to die. I have to say this story because
it's totally wild, like woo, but the so no, seriously,
it was so bad. They put this thing in my
nose called a rhino rocket, and it oh god, yeah,
it was so bad. So it's like one of those

(07:46):
like nose tampons, but it's a balloon. So they shoved
it in my face and then they and pumped it
up and I had to leave that in my nose
for days. So it was like so serious, and I'm like,
why did that even happen? But there was a host
of things. There was death in the family. That was
like really actually pretty tragic that I won't go into.
But it was a wild ride. And I was actually

(08:08):
contacted by somebody who saw me on a different podcast
and she was like, can we meet? And I'm like, yeah,
why not just meet random people from podcasts?

Speaker 1 (08:17):
So we went to having sounds safe.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
I'm super smart that way, right.

Speaker 6 (08:23):
So I asked for it.

Speaker 4 (08:26):
So she seemed cool, and so I met her for coffee.
But she said she had something to give me, and
so she gives me these occult books and she said
that the universe told her that I needed these books,
and but then she also said that somehow she knew
the plants told her that I was having night terrors,

(08:46):
which was true, I like literal night terrors, and that
I was under some sort of spiritual attack.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
And I was like okay.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
So she gave me a tincture and she was like,
well take this, and I'm like, she's she was about
to leave to go to a different state too, so
this was her little time in the Cleveland area and
then she's going to high tail to Maine, and so
she's leaving me with this and I'm thinking, so.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Should I just take this?

Speaker 4 (09:09):
Like who knows what from a stranger I met from
the podcast, who now is going to like flee the state?

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Sure why not?

Speaker 4 (09:15):
So I go ahead and I take this tincture, and
sure enough, though everything she said that would happen.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Now, of course it could be power suggestion.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
I'm open to that, but everything she said that would
happen really did happen.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
It was wild.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
So she said that what she had put into this tincture, now,
she had a background in herbalism, and she was working
for a pharmaceutical company, and so she had an actual
like academic background in it. But she was also algonquin,
so she had a lot of this internal knowledge and
cultural you know, education as well, and so she was
a very well rounded person. And she gave me this

(09:51):
tincture told me that all of these different plants and
essences that were in it had these different functions. One
of them would make it so that in the dream
I would be sort of lucid, but I wouldn't necessarily
experience things that would just be like an observer effect.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
I was like, okay, So sure enough it.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
Happened, and I had this wild dream that was super
deep and archetypal and really heavy and afterwards, I was
just like whoa. And then after I had meditation that
was just really productive and I was like, I'm losing
my mind here. But whatever, After all of that happened,
it was really like things lifted and so. And then

(10:29):
of course, just to just to make sure, I had
my friend Bill Bean do a deliverance. I'm like, okay,
who what other religion can we get?

Speaker 1 (10:36):
You know?

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Do we have like anything?

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Sage?

Speaker 4 (10:38):
Well, I'll take Frankinson's whatever you got. So I got
every every angle you could imagine, just blessing and blessing
and blessing and so.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
But uh, yeah, weird and wild r Well.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Did this was this when you canceled the show? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (10:56):
No, I mean coming off of that, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
We had you okay anyway, no reason, No, No, it's okay,
it's okay.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
I had I was.

Speaker 4 (11:04):
I was going through a pretty serious health issue.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
So well, I was so excited, you know, for a
week going man, hen, there's going to be here, and
there's going to be here and then uh anyway, uh,
here's here's been rough. Here's the thing with all of that,
with with your research into not only the esoteric and

(11:29):
the hidden and and going into ancient history and and
following that stuff and and getting into the research, and
then you go through these experiences yourself. Is that where
you just back up and go, well, you know, there's
something else to this world that we're not being taught
and I'm experiencing it myself, you know, do you go

(11:53):
through that thought process?

Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yes, yes, as especially this past year, it's it's been
something that I really had to take a look in
the mirror and figure out where I was standing on
issues because I'm I.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Was told a story.

Speaker 4 (12:08):
It's like just a little anecdote about the devil on
the fence post. Somebody who is on the fence post
and they're watching this spiritual war go down on the battlefield,
and at the end of it, God takes his people
and they go away, and then the devil rounds up
his people and then they go away and he comes
back to the person on the fence post and says,

(12:29):
come on, And the person on the fence post is
like youah, no, I'm fine here, and the devil says,
I own the fence. So this is that was something
that you know, hit me a little hard because I
never considered myself on any fence post, per se not
in the sense that I couldn't decide, but just insofar

(12:50):
as I and this sounds bad, but I thought I
was a little above it, not in a way that
I was better than but I was trying to take
the perspective of an observer, where I could just not
get in the battlefield, but maybe sit on that fence
post and just observe and try to figure out what
was going on. And over time, I think I realized

(13:11):
that there was really something going on that was a
lot deeper and darker than I ever wanted to admit
or imagine. And I've had to really just really reassess
a few things here and there.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
So, yeah, yeah, do you remember the movie Crossroads. Movie
Crossroads had the karate kid whatever his name is, Ralph
march TiO. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's him and he's
a young guitar player, right, and it's it's like Faust.

(13:45):
It's a Faust. It's a takeoff of Faust, and so
he gets an offer from the devil to be a
better guitar player, like the best guitar player ever. And
that's what the movie is. It's like Faust's it's a
Faust story. Anyway, it's about crossroads. Are these two roads

(14:08):
in Mississippi where the devil hangs out and if you
want to make a deal, you go to the crossroads
and the devil will show up in whatever incarnation, right,
and you make a deal, right, sign your name right,
sign a contract.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
And.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
I always you know, it was a fun movie. Fous
is a great story, and there's there's different things with
folklore in the guitar world about this. But anyway, I
go to the crossroads. I go to Mississippi and a
friend of mine took me to a juke joint at

(14:48):
a house and we didn't get there until two in
the morning. This is in the middle of a red
mud field, white farmhouse right out of the movies Man
with like two hundred cars parked in, all black people. Right,

(15:09):
I'm going in there with my along hair and what
I experienced that night, So I'm not going to get
into details. We leave, sun is coming up. We leave
at six in the morning, seven in the morning, and
we're driving out of there and went So crossroads was real.
It was real. You go when you visit that and

(15:31):
you experience and you understand where the mythology comes from,
and you experience it firsthand. And I'm serious, man, I
felt like I was lucky to get out of town. Yeah. Yeah,
it was fun, it was mysterious, it was spooky, it
was voodoo, it was it was it was all of that. Man.

(15:54):
I remember watching them dance. It's hard to explain. It's
it's really hard to explain, but to experience the style
of music that they're playing this, you know, authentic blues,
Delta blues. That's going on with this crazy dancing for

(16:16):
hours and I'm watching that and it was hypnotic. It
was yeah. Yeah, it was a trip. It was it
was a real trip. And then I went back and
watched Crossroads again. I was like, yeah, well, yeah, yeah,
it's real. It's real. And then and then when we

(16:37):
get into something like the Ananaki, the same subject, believe
it or not, where you go when you you start
reading about the Ananaki. There's so many different stories and
different ways to approach this, but all of it pretty
out there and fun, right, And and you do your

(16:58):
your thing in life, and you experienced life, and then
you research something like the Onanaki. It's not that far removed,
is It's It's like anything as possible?

Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I've been asked this multiple times
because sometimes my books will go from the on Anaki
to the one like about Bapphamet, and then another on
a Naki and all this, and people will say, why
are you writing about the occult and not just the
Ananaki or ancient history or these gods, and what is
the connection? Sometimes people don't see the connection, and I

(17:31):
wouldn't have seen the connection at all either. When I
first started out. I think you mentioned we spoke for
the first time, what ten thirteen, I think it was
thirteen years.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Ago maybe, And I think it.

Speaker 4 (17:42):
Was a very different place in my research because I
was looking into things like just with a sense of
curiosity and no preconceived notions, and you.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Had more of an academic approach.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, no, for sure.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
And I was coming from that background, and I wanted
to bring that to the sort of alternative world as
we used to call it. I think it's not so
alternative anymore. I think it is becoming the mainstream, so
there's more of us out here looking at these alternative ideas.
And over time, though, I didn't want to become part
of that where it was just I'm believing things I didn't.

(18:20):
I wasn't that person with the poster, although I do
have the poster that says I want to believe.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Because I don't.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
Nietzsche had a saying where there are two different types
of people in the world, those who want to know
and those who want to believe.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
I want to know.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
So I've tried to approach things with a as unbiased
a view as I can. But over a decade of
researching all of this and going down these rabbit holes
and finding these strange connections, you just can't help but
to see things through a whole different light. It really
does change you over time, and so I would almost
wish that I hadn't seen behind the curtain. But what's

(18:56):
done is done, and now I just move forward and
try to still know, as opposed to believe.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
But yeah, yeah, because the word belief, at least to me,
it insinuates religion or something that that you know, you
know is not real, but you want to believe that

(19:23):
it is. That's belief to me. To know is dealing
with facts and to have something revealed so you understand
and that that's two different things. And I'm I'm chasing
the the No, I'm not chasing belief. I'm chasing, you know,
trying to get to the truth. You know, I'm chasing that.

(19:47):
And so it's always out there, right, It's always one
step further, it's always one step first. Belief you can
have like that, you know, that's that's that's an instantaneous thing.
And so even though I do have the I want
to Believe poster.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Right there there it is classics.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, hanging on the wall.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Yeah, the truth is out there, you know.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
So now, how is your approach with the new book
by the way, everybody's available for pre order right now.
It's out February second, in about a month month and
a half. How is your approach different from your first
book on the Ananachi the Ananach Connection.

Speaker 4 (20:30):
So the first book, I was literally making connections. I
was taking everybody along in real time. I sort of
do that anyway. I don't ever claim this may be
something that annoys people, but I don't ever claim to
have the answers, the only answers only because these are
very difficult subjects and there are a lot of different
people who had great things to say, and this is

(20:50):
an active field of research and inquiry. So I just
put it out as I see it. And I develop
as we go. And so for the first book, it
ended up being more of an overview of the Onanaki
subject and my journey into exploring what it all means.
And so I went over a lot of different fundamental
theories about the Onanaki, obviously about Sitchen and others, and

(21:12):
I started to take first hand accounts from people. I
started to just kind of put a whole lot in
there about trying to get a good handle on the
Onanaki aside from just the Sitchin viewpoint or the Michael
Heiser viewpoint or this duality that we had found ourselves
in for a long time.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
I still think we're in.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
It to a large extent, unfortunately, but I'm hoping to
break out of that with this sort of writing. So
the first book was an introductory text, we'll say, and
at the very end, and this is so cliche, but
it's true, I ended up with more questions and answers
at the end.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
And the end it was just like, wait a minute, I.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
Was just coming to this maybe a breaking point where
something was putting it all together for me. But I
only had so much manuscript left, so I had to
keep going.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
And so for the.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
Past five years, I would say I kept on researching
from that book, and so the next book is The
Ananachi Revelation, where I'm revealing what it was that I
sort of I guess had revealed to me, not in
so much of a religious viewpoint, like it was revealed
to me through a profit, but just as the information
emerged through the research. And so this particular one, this

(22:26):
one gets a little crazy because it's well because it's
a crazy topic and this is a really wild out
there thing to discuss. So I take a different viewpoint
than Sitchen and a different viewpoint than Saint Michael Heiser.
I don't really take a huge viewpoint at all. I'm
trying to show the evidence, show some questions that people

(22:47):
haven't been necessarily asking. And that's what led me to
this I guess revelation, which was more so about the
nature of Nanaki themselves, and I visit that through the
lens of looking at their rituals and some of the
artifacts that have been lost lost before the looting even

(23:07):
and so some very controversial finds and some very My
favorite one out of the book, I think is the
risk Watches of the Gods. That that's one that everybody
is like very interested in and I was happy to
have actually found the risk watches, and so I'm here
to report that they're not watches.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
What whoa, whoa, whoa whoa, pump the brakes.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
I have pictures.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
What do you mean you've found the watches?

Speaker 4 (23:36):
The watches? They exist. They're actually gold cuffs and they
were excavated out of Iraq in nineteen eighty nine. And
there's about one picture left that is the official photograph
that came from a very little known Iraqi archaeologist named
Muzahim Hussein who has disappeared last year and Moses in

(24:00):
twenty fifteen. There's a whole thing I write about in
the book about what happened to this trove of artifacts
that was found in I Rock by the Iraqi people,
which was a problem at the time because it didn't
have sort of this Western sanction. So the archaeologist went
in after the westerners left, started doing their own research.

(24:22):
This was right on the cusp of the war, and
they found this particular archaeologist, Professor Hussein. He was an
academic and very renowned. He stumbled upon the largest find
of gold, the biggest of gold other than King tut. Now,
this particular discovery should have made massive news. It should

(24:44):
have been covered everywhere, and yet it wasn't. It wasn't,
and it was destroyed, it was stolen. There's a whole
paper trail that went along with it, and it's actually
a quite tragic story. But in that particular horde were
the cuffs and many other things too.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Okay, so were they? Was there a function for what?
Let's get everybody knows what the watches are? You know
from from the skull?

Speaker 4 (25:13):
This made disappoint This made because I heard one say, oh, no,
it's like watches or no?

Speaker 1 (25:20):
So what was there a function to them? Did they?
Was there a purpose for them? Or was it just
a dormant and.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
Jewelry adornment and jewelry?

Speaker 2 (25:31):
But there was a ritual purpose there.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
So it was very and and that kind of points
into then what I started to find in the research
about the nature of the Onanaki, the nature of their
relationship with the kings, and the nature with more importantly,
maybe for this book, the app Calu, which are a
lot different than the anak and a little lesser known,
but very mysterious, very important and very important to the anointing.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Of the kings.

Speaker 4 (26:00):
So these are the things that are actually depicted on
the cuffs' I think I have it somewhere on my
sub stack somewhere. I can send you a picture, but yeah,
I have the picture. Nice big, It's beautifully detailed. It
is absolutely gorgeous. The goal that they found the jewelry
was just stunning. It showed that they had the most
amazing craftsmanship, that it wasn't at all archaic or primitive.

(26:22):
It was very intricate and very detailed, and there was
a lot of it. And so these were the tombs
of many different queens from Nimrod, and they had, I
mean everything you could imagine. A huge book was published
about it by this particular archaeologist. So he knew that
this was an important find and he wanted to protect it.

(26:43):
And so he went to work with his team photographing, cataloging, describing, analyzing,
both in English and Arabic, all of these artifacts, some
of them ended up in bank vaults that.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Were One of the most tragic events in human history
was the looting of every museum and library in Iraq
during the Iraqi Wars. I'm gonna say that plural, so
every city, every every city in Rock that had that

(27:20):
had a museum or a library was rated in ransacked
and the stuff that and it's all gone. It's they
took everything, and not only the stuff on display upstairs,
but everything that was in hidden rooms or in the basement.
All of that stuff is gone. And the I'm not

(27:43):
putting a blame on anybody for this, but I'll say,
if you have a family that you need to feed,
and you make absolutely zero money, right, zero zero dollars,
and that happens, and then you have an opportunity to

(28:04):
go and raid like everybody else is doing. You're not
the only one, and then sell it on the black
market and make more money than you have in your life.
You're probably going to do it. It's family first, and
I understand that part of it. But the tragedy is
we're talking about one of the first civilizations and all

(28:26):
of that history that it belongs to the record of
history for the country and geographically it's very important that
it stays there because it tells a story. Well, that
stuff is gone, it's all gone. The whole country was
raided and depleted. It's really sad. It's a tragedy. When

(28:50):
I say, in human history Iraq, in ancient Egypt, you know,
ancient Sumer, Mesopotamia, the Fertile Crescent that was first, you know,
and then then there's the before history part of it
too as well. All of that is gone.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
It is crazy and so and it's unfortunate that the
archaeologist himself is gone. Tried to look for him. There's
no evidence that he made it out of Mosl. There
was rumors that perhaps he passed. At the best case
scenario is that he was able to move out, But

(29:27):
the last correspondence he said that he was stuck in
Mosul and wasn't able to get out and things were
looking really dire. Wow, And that was the last correspondence
and so yeah, so the only thing left is his
you know work, and it was published and put together
by the University of Chicago, but they don't make it
easily accessible, of course, and nobody's bothering to really.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Do much with it.

Speaker 4 (29:53):
It's just a whole like mess, an academic mess that
you'd expect to have happen. But what's unfortunate is the
loss of all of that culture. But I look through
and tried to piece together what this particular professor had
to say on the artwork, on the meanings of the
different things he found, because he had more context and

(30:13):
more understanding, And that's when things got a little interesting,
maybe a lot interesting too. That's when I came about
this connection between the poppy and the onnaki, and that
was a whole strange, strange road that I wasn't expecting.
So in a lot of the artwork, you'll see this

(30:36):
is very iconic. You'll see that these onunaki beings are
holding little bushels of flowers.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
They look like maybe vine.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Sometimes they are depicted as as date dates or something
like that, but there's never really a consensus on what
those are. Sometimes they'll say their stylized trees of life.
That's fine. But when you look at the little rosettes
and you look at some of the very very intricate patterns,
they start to resemble flowers, but they start to represent
more specifically the pods of the poppy plant right as

(31:09):
it is about to let the latex out that gets
harvested for opium. So it's a particular stage in its
life cycle.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
And so it's interesting.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
I'm looking into this, you know, speculative, but I had reason.
I had a few tips to suspect that, and then
there was older research where people were saying, okay, there.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Were poppies, blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
But then over time it went into probably about the
nineteen sixties, that fell out of favor and people just
started saying, well, these are just like flowers. They're just flowers,
or they're just little style icons or rosettes, and it
just got very generic or date date palms.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Or okay, are you suggesting a mons? Your answer, but
my take when I hear that is then there is
an opium connection. Do you think that they were utilizing
those plants for those you know, I don't want to

(32:11):
say medicinal, because it could have been well, you know
what I mean, is that what you're suggesting here that
they were aware of what the poppy could be.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
I'm certain that they were, because they said it so,
in addition to the research coming from the local professors
in Iraq who knew all along that these represented the poppy.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
It was important to their culture.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
And when you looked at the discovery from the tomb,
there were these little pop beautiful by the way, little
poppy just gold. They weren't really wearables, they were just
little poppies that were made from gold, just scattered like
table scattered at a wedding or something like that, or confetti.
And these were also all over their headdresses in this

(32:59):
sort of thing. Researchers just when they launed it, they
said poppy. These were poppies. It was just a no
brainer to them. Everything was labeled to poppy. So that
was interesting and I would be more inclined to take
their word for it, and especially since there was a
track record of that when we had closer correspondences before
things started getting war torn, so we did also agree

(33:21):
that they were poppies. And then we started to deviate,
and we in the West, that is, started to deviate
on that. But then you go and you look at
the text themselves, the medical texts, the cuneiform tablets, and
they actually reference the poppy. They call it the joy plant.
It's the whole gill Man.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
I always like the Ananaki. They just went up a
whole other level. Right in our conversation off air earlier,
this is this is this is bizarre. The universe. The
universe knows, doesn't it the verse it does, these really knows.
But okay, so let's let's let's pin that to the

(34:00):
wall because we're going to come back to that. Here
is what is really interesting. You mentioned Michael Heiser. Michael
Heiser going to move on. He's no longer with us.
Hey Michael, what's up. But Michael was I'm right and
you're wrong on so many different stands. He did not
have an open mind. Sitchen did. Sitchen had an open mind.

(34:23):
He was just throwing it out there. But you know,
just but Michael had a very closed view of everything
that he was the scholar and he was here to
tell you right from wrong. And that's a different approach.
But for me, now here's the third take. As I'm
looking at the Ananaki and I'm looking at science, and

(34:45):
I'm looking at anthropology and archaeology and certainly chemistry and
our history, where these statements which are still you know,
part of academia, that Homo sapiens us, the version of
us right now is two hundred thousand years old, two
hundred and fifty thousand at the farthest out, we've got

(35:10):
no fossil record of us. We just appeared, then we have. Okay,
so that's the science side, and then Sitchen says we
were created, that things happened and that and you look

(35:31):
at the timeline and Sitchen's ideas line up with modern
anthropology and archaeology. And that's the part where I go, Okay,
now there is something to this story because we have
two different camps that are way far apart right on
theories and ideas, but are starting to merge on a

(35:53):
very crucial timeline of us. And that's what I find interesting.
And Hiser or pooh pooed all of that. He didn't
want to have anything to do with that. But if
you look at those two, they merge. And that's when
I stepped back and said, Okay, there is something to
this story. I don't know what the answers are, but

(36:14):
one is supporting the other, isn't.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
It It seems to be. And clearly Michael's not here
to defend himself. But what I will say is that he,
like many scholars, bring their bias, and he liked to
appear as though he wasn't biased. But his background was
that he was a very devout evangelical Christian, and so
he often was sub subtly trying to push a particular

(36:39):
biblical narrative that had its own specified timeline, and so
and that's not to suggest that he didn't have great research.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
He was definitely renowned.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
But again, every scholar brings their own bias in and
it's your job as another researcher to look at that bias,
you know, just take it into consideration, weighed against the other,
and put that out and then also cite your own bias.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
That's that's what a good researcher does. That's what a
good research u. A famous man once said, right, very
smart man once said, when you are wrong, you learn something.
That it's such a basic thing. Right, If you're wrong
and you just learned why you were wrong, you have

(37:25):
learned something. And that's what a great researcher does is
you have an open mind where you go, okay, I
can consider okay, all right, it doesn't line up, but okay,
well that's what you want. You want to have that
kind of conversation. And that's uh, that's one of the
things that I think is missing in academia today.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
But uh, one of the many things.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, that's for another show. But but my views of
the Ananaki have evolved. They really have. You know, you
go back, okay, so were you once as I was
a nuts and bolts Nabu gold mining shielding planet on

(38:12):
a you know that were you a died in the
wool on Anaki researcher at one point that only had
that kind of worldview about them and then evolved from there.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
No, not at all.

Speaker 4 (38:26):
In fact, I hadn't even considered that that particular part
of their ancient astronaut connection. That was something that my
interest in ancient astronaut theory went to the Von Danik
and cheriots of the gods the og sort of thing,
and they didn't really touch on the sitch aspect too much.
So I was coming into it just without any presuppositions.

(38:49):
But I was intrigued because I thought, well, it's a
fair reading. It's a fair interpretation. I don't know that
the nuts and bolts part I can buy. I could
see through that particular bias because of the time that
it was written. It's like, well, I doubt that if
something so advanced, it's going to have like nineteen sixties
Flash Gordon style apparatus to get here. So that always

(39:12):
stuck out to me. But that didn't mean that the
whole idea of it being extraterrestrial or somehow coming to
us was completely out of the window. But I just
didn't have a strong opinion. That's probably why I was
so intrigued. I wanted to know, like, what is this
what is this quote Sumerian problem? Because the academic point
of view was that there was in fact a problem,

(39:32):
that there was no explanation for how this civilization could
just pop up in like the course of two hundred
years out of a semi settled hunter gatherer group. That
there was complete mystery how you could go from just
going along like the Paleolithic lifestyle to boom civilization. And
it was something that intrigued me. So I wanted to know.

(39:54):
But I didn't come into it with the nuts and
bolts mindset. I was definitely not on any side or
the other. I was just very curious and I was
open to most things because it's fun. It's fun to
look into ideas. You don't always have to go and
try to argue that one is right or the other.
It's like, oh, look at this cool idea, let's explore it.
And then after you explore it, you start to think,

(40:15):
maybe this isn't but what does this person have to say?
So it was just more of a process to me,
but over time, you know you can't help but start
to say, wait a minute, I think I'm making connections.
I think that I'm seeing something here. And then I
started to develop my own I guess perspective on what
I feel the Ananaki are at least thus far, and

(40:36):
this could change completely because I'm in a constant state
of trying to find these answers. It's part of my mission,
I guess if you will. But as of now, I
feel that it's important to get a little bit away
from the sitch a narrative only because I feel that
it is stagnating the field completely. I think that it's

(40:57):
important for people who are coming into it to make
look at that. I mean, I teach like an Onanaki
one oh one course online and I definitely introduce everybody
to those. It's like a fundamental thing to say, who
are the thinkers are? What are the ideas? But we
still then have to kind of move from that so
that we can see what else is going on. Because

(41:18):
there's been tablets that have been translated since then, there's
been a lot of different things to you know, consider
that we only know a fraction of what these tablets
have to say. There's like half a million tablets right
now housed in museums and in private collections, and only
only two hundred and fifty thousand of those have been

(41:40):
translated at all. So that's not saying any of the
probably millions that are out there that haven't been discovered.
And so it's just like we're onto something now with
AI as well that's going to be able to.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Translate this for better or worse.

Speaker 4 (41:55):
But the projects are ongoing and they were just able
to crack the code. I guess find another Gilgamesh line
using artificial intelligence.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
I heard about that. I heard about that. Yeah, yeah,
when the University of Chicago did there. This is in
the nineties. Back then the Internet was so basic and stuff.
But the University of Chicago had one of the coolest
things period on the Internet. They had a Samerian text translator,

(42:25):
so you could go think about this in nineteen ninety
eight where they have all of an indexed version of
all of the Sumerian tablets up to that point in
a database, and so you could type in a phrase
or word and it would search the tablets for it

(42:45):
and you can expand onto the I did that for
months months. I was doing everything and some of it,
not all of sitchin stuff. In fact, a big chunk
of what Sitchin said was in the tablets I couldn't find,
but I really thank the university. But some of it

(43:06):
was there. And that was the other crazy thing where
it's like, you don't want a conspiracy to turn out
to be true because then you just lose your mind.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
You're like, what sh for you?

Speaker 1 (43:20):
But but that's what was happened to me. Happening to
me with the University of Chicago. I spent a lot
of time, uh, you know, because I love Sitchen. I
never interviewed him. I never did. He was he was
the one that got away from me. But but anyway,
the things that were lining up for me with the Onanaki,

(43:41):
Uh you have the folklore, you have the mythology, you
have this, but you have the other cultures around the
world that have a similar type of origin story and
things that were lining up. And you know, I'm seeing
baskets all around the world. I'm seeing this this these
icons are are popping up at different cultures too as well.

(44:02):
And I was I was very confused. I saw the connection.
But the point is to all of this, if you
go into it with an open mind, then you're able
to see through it in three D. And I think
that's what's most important now. Okay, So with all of
that being said, it sounds like I'm agreeing with you.
It's what I'm saying is University of Chicago was a

(44:25):
magical place for me to go and do a bunch
of the Sumerian research with the Ananaki. Today, my take
has evolved. I'm starting to change. So let's get to
some basic questions for you. Are you looking at the
timeline of the Ananaki lining up with two hundred and

(44:48):
fifty thousand years ago, four hundred thousand years ago, that
was here prehistory?

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Well, yes and no.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
So one of the first things, so you asked me
about how I felt a about Sitchen and what brought
me in that way. I would say though, coming into
any of this, the only I think mentor person that
I really was drawn to was Michael Kremo, and he
has this idea.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
He's the best. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't
for him. Hey, Michael, thank you.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
It's two of us, trust me, there's two of us.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
He's the best.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
So his views of extreme human antiquity. Now that sounds
really wild, and a lot of the claims are really wild.
But as you see over the years, the number line
just keeps getting pushed back and pushed back. So I
was already open to a lot of different ideas about
these timelines and when these things are sort of happening.
So you also have some evidence for things like the

(45:45):
big brain bang, where we just get to be like
homo sapien sapien and we're really smart all of a sudden,
And then there's a question of human migration patterns, and
those numbers are always getting pushed back, and so there's
a lot of stuff in flux. And what I found
is that, uh, there are a lot of these like
overlaps too coming about as to how long ago something

(46:06):
was or whatever. Still not I don't have an answer
as in like, yes, it happened on this day or
this time, but I feel like there's something to say
put a pin in right there where it's there's something
in the extreme human antiquity department there where it's very
long time ago, or at least longer than the mainstream
consensus have it. But then the idea of something really

(46:28):
really existential happening about twelve thou five hundred years ago
is something. It's I don't know how anyone can start
to dispute this. At this point, you have these particular
timelines to consider, and then you put that with all
of the different flood myths that are all around the
world and different cultures and oral traditions, and so even

(46:49):
if you can't say radiocarbon date the time right to
a specific era or what have you, it's it starts
to paint a bit of a picture that, to me
at least said that something happened twelve years ago that
coincided with civilization coming about. Now this idea though, of

(47:10):
the Onanaki in particular, this is where this is where
my research starts to take a strange, stranger than average turn. So, uh,
just spoiler alert for the book. I guess the revelation
is that it is my view thus far that the
on Aanaki are not extraterrestrial, that they are what we

(47:32):
would call ultraterrestrial.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Here we go, there we go, Okay, yeah, that's yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Very long ago, but then also had an impact.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Let me let me jump in there. Humans us homossapien
sapiens every day, every day, our ability to understand grows,
we understand more. One of the things that we are

(48:03):
understanding and grasping is that word interdimensional. It that wasn't
a word that was used fifty years ago. It was
I don't even think it was in the dictionary and
one hundred years ago two hundred now ghost spirits that
oh okay, but that's could they be the same as
there connect? Well, that's that's a bit. But the idea

(48:27):
of extra dimensions, of parallel worlds, of the multiverse and
another reality beyond what we experience day to day here
is something that we are understanding now. So to look
at the Ananaki in that way, we have the we
have the capacity to understand and consider what you are suggesting,

(48:51):
and we didn't have that, you know, one hundred years ago,
and I really appreciate that take. How did you arrive
at that?

Speaker 4 (48:59):
It was actually through my research into the app callu
specifically because.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Wait, well who are the op callu? This is I'm
learning So so.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
The app callu, if you were to google on Anaki,
you're going to come up up with a lot of
different pictures, some Sumerian, some Assyrian, and some that are
actually not on a nachi but up Callu, they're the
winged entities that have generally a bird face, but they're
they're winged entities sometimes called the genie, and they later
the gin they evolved into that. But yep, Callu very ancient,

(49:33):
and they were described as being semi biological, whereas the
Onnaki were not necessarily described as being not biological. It
was kind of implied that they were biological somehow. So
when you look at the stories more closely and you
see this idea of the onnaki. First of all, we
have a pantheon of these gods. There's like twelve plus

(49:53):
but there's actually many more, and the onnachi but becomes
this almost blanket term like we would use the term lord,
so like the landlord or Jesus's lord, or there's this
we kind of just put that out there and just
we know what it means. It could be very important
to us, or it could be just the landlord. So

(50:13):
in a way, it appears in the text that that
ends up happening over time from the Sumerians all the
way into the Assyrians, and when you have a shift
in how these on a Naki were referenced. So if
you push far back, though, into a more archaic viewpoint.
You start to hear about these apcollu more and more,
and they're associated specifically with the pleading and star system.

(50:37):
There's the seven Sages and they were described as being
the teachers of the Onanaki, and the Onnaki were the
great lords. And when you looked at the king's list,
you'll find the very old you'll see the names, and
then it will say and the sage assigned was whichever,
and then this one had this sage assigned, so sort

(51:00):
of like like a spirit I hate, I don't want
to use the word spirit because the ghosts and stuff,
but there was like this other worldly influence that was
having an impact guiding like a spirit guyed I suppose
onto the Onanaki rulers at the time. Over time that

(51:22):
you start to see that wane and you don't see
the sage anymore, and you just see human kings and
it starts to dilute into something more mundane. But in
the older versions you start to see this picture of
this other being that comes in sometimes associated with the fishmen,

(51:42):
the ones that come out of the waters and have
whar the.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Fish cap and all of that.

Speaker 4 (51:48):
So these entities were described very differently than the Ananaki.
They were described as again being semi biological, but also
being able to appear disappear to man fast, and to
be physical and non physical. It's one of the only
areas in the Sumerian text where you'll see actual supernatural claims.

(52:10):
A lot of it is not so supernatural, like if
you see the behavior of the Ananaki gods aside from
some feats, you know, releasing the bull of heaven and
all of this, which a lot of that could be
translated one way but interpreted to be another way. I
mean that could speak to Taurus or some sort of
different things.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Well, because they had a basic vocabulary, they had a
vocabulary that they used back then to describe whatever. Right,
we have a vocabulary today that we even struggle with
when describing something. We only have so many words right
to use. And then you have two paths you can

(52:51):
interpret or you can interpolate, and how do you want
to approach, And then you could be way off with
the original. You know, Sumaran intention about what they saw,
what they experience, what they were documenting a completely different
subject than we are interpreting or interpolating. Right, it's going
through a filter today. So it's a strange position that

(53:16):
we find ourselves in. Even the Epic of Gilgamesh is
like that for me. You know, how do you really
want to there's translate, right, that's different, and that's a
very direct thing. But you also have to interpret. You
have to understand absolutely, yeah, you have you have their vocabulary,
we have ours, and we're trying to meet somewhere in

(53:38):
the middle to figure out what is going on.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
And when we interpret, we're clearly bringing our own framework,
and like our conceptual framework is being sublimated onto that
because we have our own references. So it's really something
that we have to deal with when looking at these texts,
something like the Epic of Gilgamesh, though it's another one
that it's to me kind of saying something very important

(54:02):
about the civilizing of humans. That Ankie Do was quite
possibly more of a how I say, sasquatch entity, but
like Ankie Do was a wild person, somebody who was
brought in and described to be civilized and turned into
a human or humanized by simply getting a bath and

(54:23):
shaving and you know whatever. So I think a lot
of times what we're looking at in some of those
old texts is this meeting of two worlds. The world's
colliding between this early way of being having to interact
with other types of hominids, and then figuring out civilization,
how to coincide with that, how to deal with any
of that, and during a time of great flux after

(54:46):
the floods. So I think that that's probably where I
stand with that in terms of the interpretations. The thing
that just really hit me was that the Apcollu were
looked at and framed in a very different way, and
they were messengers. They had more of a supernatural kind
of point of view to them, and then you start
looking at what they were being implicated in, and most

(55:12):
of those things were this idea of guiding the king
but also anointing.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
They were very ritual.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
They're the ones holding the pine cone, opening the third eye,
this sort of thing. So when you look I mentioned
the cuffs earlier, if you were just to look at
the cuffs going around those, there are the Upcallu holding
the pine and we're talking like little, very little. It's
they're so intricate. The cuffs are nice size, but the
art is just so intricate that they were able to

(55:41):
put that sort of design all the way around it,
So they were definitely looking at these ap Callu as
something else. And so my takeaway from that and other
research that I've done into them, is that what we
may be looking at is this is sort of the
religion of.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
The on Naki.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
So these are like if we have the guys on
a Naki, that these may have been the gods of
the gods. So that would paint a different picture again too, like, well,
then who were the on Naki. But when I'm looking
at the flood myths, when I'm looking at the timeline,
when I'm looking at the accounts of the people on
the ground, the Sumerians themselves and what they claim to

(56:19):
have witnessed and how they wrote about it too, it
appears to me that the accounts of the Onnaki were
very human, and it starts to also look more like
what we may be dealing with is a breakaway civilization,
like an Antediluvian breakaway civilization that was able to make

(56:40):
it to various parts, including sumer and subtle kind of
like a cargo cult. So looking at the individuals there
and enslaving them and saying, you know, we're the gods,
so we have to have a pre class.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Before we head to the break. Let me make this
point because I like where you're going with this. But
they whoever wrote those texts, whoever laid it out for us,
didn't have a movie theater playing Steven Spielberg, right, They

(57:14):
didn't have write this science fiction, technology driven imagination where
they know they were. They were historically documenting their life,
their reality. You know what I mean, it's not it's

(57:36):
not it's not science fiction. It's not fiction.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
It's they wouldn't lie. I don't believe that.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Right, right, right, you have to. So what was it
that they were seeing? What they were experiencing and and
it was important enough to absolutely Look, they had the
mundane laid out in the Marian text, they had taxes,
they had grocery lists, right, they had goat trading and

(58:06):
all of that is in the Sumerian text. But everything
else was there too, with their history and documenting society
and culture, and so yeah, you have to take it
at face value.

Speaker 4 (58:19):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's no there's no reason to
just assume that the ancients wrote just to trick us
thousands of years later. I mean, they were writing what
they were witnessing, and there were the primary sources, and
so you have to take those very seriously. And if
we can't understand what they were saying, that's a problem
with our interpretation. And so we have to work harder

(58:40):
to let those voices shine through so that we can
understand what they were trying to say.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Fantastic conversation, Heather. You stay right there tonight, Doctor Heather
Lynn is with us. It's all on ANAKI all night long,
Doctor Heather Lynn. Heather, stay right there. I'm your host,
Davie Church. This is Fade to Black. We'll be right
back after the shortbreak. Stay with us. Subscribe to our

(59:31):
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(59:56):
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(01:00:21):
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(01:00:44):
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(01:01:07):
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(01:01:28):
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(01:01:51):
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(01:02:11):
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(01:02:59):
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Speaker 5 (01:03:13):
Okay, November twenty twenty six, We're going to have our
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then after that six days.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
In Easter Island bucket list, Easter Island. Come join Brian
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(01:03:48):
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(01:04:37):
All right, welcome back, Fad to Black. I am your
host human church tonight our guest doctor, Heather Lynn, is
back with us. Her new book, The Ananaky Revelation is
releasing February second. You can pre order now. We have
the links below, on our website and throughout social media.
And let's get straight back to it, Heather. Actually, this

(01:05:01):
is on point. It sounds like a deviation, but I
want your take on this because the interdimensional aspect of
the Ananaki is very interesting and there is another thing
that comes into play here Akintin. And I say that
for a couple of different reasons. Akatin he ruled Egypt

(01:05:25):
for seventeen years, but unlike any other pharaoh in the
historical record, we have no reference to him until he
becomes pharaoh, no record of his birth. He's Tutin commons

(01:05:48):
the third. All of his children are there in document
except for him, and then he rules for seventeen years.
Comes in, brings in mono the which was bizarre because
there were polytheism at the time, and went back to
that after he was done ruling. But the other crazy part, now, yes,

(01:06:12):
he was strange looking, he had unlike anything else we
had ever seen depicted of a pharaoh. There's that part
he brings in the atan a new God, which was cosmic, right,
it was a disc Some say it's the sun. You

(01:06:34):
could interpret it any way that you want, but that
was the Aten. And then he just disappears. There's no
record of his death, and that he just appears out
of nowhere and then disappears. One of the strange, most

(01:06:56):
influential people in history, but we don't have any record
of him before and after. And I've scratched my head
on this. Most most scholars won't talk this way, but
I will. Seems interdimensional to me and looks very different

(01:07:16):
than anything else that we've seen depicted throughout history, and
I find that very strange. So when we talk about
the Anonaki and an interdimensional component to them, then we
have something like Akantin that came along that also appears
to be interdimensional. Do you think that there is a
connection to this and is it, you know, supporting your

(01:07:40):
theory of the Ananaki very well?

Speaker 4 (01:07:44):
Could if you consider the idea of avatars, you know,
this idea of maybe a world teacher or this interdimensional
aspect of maybe individuals who commune with these and so
this is an old idea. I mean, I guess us
in a spiritual context. Now you may call it like possession,

(01:08:05):
but that's sort of a I hate to throw that
out there even because it just really conjures up a
bunch of different ideas. But I remember a few different
things that I read that Bob Lazar had to say
about his understanding or things he encountered that led him

(01:08:25):
to say that aliens or other life viewed us as containers.
So sort of like we're containers for souls, we're vessels.
So if you just think about it in this maybe
different sense, again, not to say spiritual, I feel like
that's just too heavily loaded, but something like that, you

(01:08:49):
might get a different view of how you were looking
at this. So, for instance, the Onanachi themselves, it could
be that they were very well, just human beings, but
maybe a particular type of human being, maybe particular human
beings that had mastered some sort of special talents or skills.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Something involved was evolved into something beyond this three D
aspect of our meat suits.

Speaker 4 (01:09:16):
So that's what I contend is that there was a
connection to well pretty much.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
But we get the no A story from this.

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
The no At story is far older than, of course
the Bible, and in this story it talks about essentially
a breakaway civilization. It doesn't have the boat with the
two animals and all of this. When you look at
the actual translation, it discusses not that they were family members,
but rather that these were individuals who were selected to

(01:09:45):
go based on their knowledge of how they could contribute
to a breakaway society. So the greatest scientists, the greatest astronomer,
or the greatest whatever, and so they took those individuals.
Those individuals then took all the the animals of the step,
which was a very important kind of thing to consider
because it wasn't every animal necessarily on Earth, but it

(01:10:07):
was the animals that they would need in order to
travel in a nomadic way and be able to then
go and seed another area with animal husbandry and agriculture
and this sort of thing. But they had fore knowledge
of a cataclysm happening great climate change. So in my view,
what we're looking at is something akin to climate refugees

(01:10:29):
who were leaving from a highly advanced civilization, and they
were able to survive, and then they were able to
influence the other humans that they encountered, those other human
semi settled hunter gears having yes, they had culture, they
had pottery, they had beginnings of proto language, and of

(01:10:50):
course they most likely were speaking. We have physical evidence
you can tell when humans were actually speaking and able
to make words, and so we may not have their language,
but we know they were speaking to one another. But
then you have this influx of new individuals that come
and what do they do according to sitchens view, but

(01:11:12):
according to what the text actually say is they were
enslaving these people, and so they were making them do agriculture,
they were making them serve, they were making them worship
and so here you have a situation where these individuals,
these on Anaki, aren't necessarily nice. They're subjugating. So whether

(01:11:33):
they were coming down to you know, from space and
mining gold or whatever, it doesn't matter what you do.
See a line in both of the translations and the
interpretations is this idea that these individuals came to enslave
the local population and have them work for them. They
had them dig to make water like irrigation, they had

(01:11:55):
them plant things, they had them do all of this.
But then in order to communicate k they had to
make a priest class. And then you start seeing the
induction of the mystery religions. This idea of having to
be initiated in and you have a when we get
the story of course of Ankie and this very Promethean

(01:12:16):
type story we hear all over the place all the time,
is that one of these individuals starts to feel a
little bad, like, oh, you know, we're subjugating them, and
that's too bad. And you know their women look pretty good,
So maybe we should go and share some information.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
And what do they usually do though?

Speaker 4 (01:12:31):
They share language and they say, hey, let me in
on the one secret that we have here. And so
in that, of course, then has the rift between like
Ankie and Inlil or any of the other characters you
see that's echoed through this myth, a fallen angel or
what have you. It's this breaking away to give the

(01:12:51):
Promethean flame the knowledge to humans and thereby releasing them
potentially from this enslavement, starting battle wars and this discrepancies
over who's in charge of the now formed civilization until
later this small group is dethroned because there was only
so many of them. And so what we're looking at,
in my view, is more of an anthropological tale, the

(01:13:14):
meeting of different cultures after a great cataclysm, happens, but
they're still room.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
How far is that away from us today? It sounds
like all of the drama that we deal with today
is like I'm a drama that they were doing this
back then. And yeah, our our our way of being

(01:13:40):
today was shaped right and and really hasn't deviated much
from the cultures thousands and thousands of years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:13:51):
They set up that system for us and we're still today.
It's that system of civilization that we you know, it
sounds great, and a civilization is better than the alternative,
I suppose, but it's this notion of a power structure,
a hierarchy. It's the they invented things like professions and
labor and all of this. So this idea of this

(01:14:13):
pyramidal structure, a hierarchical so stratification system based on also
currency and weights and measures and all the things that
are you know, maybe taken for granted now. They did
that in that two hundred year blink of an eye,
and we're still living in that as a result. I mean,
the way we count sec, minutes, and hours are based

(01:14:35):
in the same system that they created, right, So we
are still living in that because they set up the
system for us then you have to think, well, it's
an interesting That's why I kind of am sympathetic towards
this idea of Atlantis not being necessarily like the you
say Atlantis, and a lot of people think it's just
like Aquaman or something. But if you just go back

(01:14:57):
to the Plato's account of what Solon said, it really
does look to be like there was a great civilation
that had things pretty well mastered, and I think that
it was just agriculture. I think what we're looking at
that they had was definitely a sense of spiritual science
that they were able to tap into really amazing feats

(01:15:21):
that we maybe have latent within ourselves, but we have
not able to necessarily evolve to the level that they had.
And so that you start to see over time this
idea of shawanism.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
I mean, that's a new word for it.

Speaker 4 (01:15:38):
This it's from the nineteen six They kind of retroactively
put that word out there, but it kind of encapsulates
this idea of older spirituality that was based in the
shaman going into an altered state and having visions and
vision quests and communing with other entities and being able
to bring technology back bring with them back. So this

(01:16:02):
is something that I think has been for a long time,
and it hits on that idea then of the ultraterrestrial
component and the on naki. So if you imagine a
situation where say there's a pre flood civilism we'll call
it Atlantis, and there's a great population there and they're
very in tune with more than just agriculture. They have

(01:16:23):
a civilization, but they have these great spiritual technologies and
developments within themselves that they're able to maybe be telepathic,
who knows they have something else. They are able to
reach states of consciousness that only are now discovering may exist.
And then a cataclysm happens and they have to move

(01:16:44):
and they go and disperse and encounter others, but they
are with them all of that, all of that within them,
and then they pass that down. So I think, aside
from agriculture, and agriculture is huge, is the actual revolution.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
It's the whole thing, right.

Speaker 4 (01:17:00):
I think the biggest revolution was the spiritual revolution that
they brought spiritual techniques of pologises called orgiastic behavior. So
when you're listening to drum circles or you're participating in
these group activities and you're getting really sort of into it,
and you're getting into altered states. You're having visions also

(01:17:23):
being able to understand plant medicines and how to utilize
those things to take you off into a different hetosphere,
like just exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
But okay, so is there there's a follow up question
to this? Is there an interdimensional ultra ultra terrestrial civilization
of Ananaki right now and then they cross that boundary

(01:17:55):
and visit us like right now today in the now now?

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
So I think some yes and no.

Speaker 4 (01:18:04):
I think some of the things like Ankie or I
think this has to be answered carefully because there's some
on Anaki that are more human than not. There'saki, there's antheon,
and so we'll discuss the pantheon the Aankee in those
I think what those are are our type. And I

(01:18:26):
don't mean that just in a character sense, but in
the actual what Carl Jung believed the archetypes were. They
lived in a collective unconscious. That being said means that
they transcend the body. That so they are in fact
an altraterrestrial type entity, so they can be embodied in
an individual and I think that is something that they

(01:18:49):
were trying to do with this ritualistic behavior.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
You'll often hear the gods left, but.

Speaker 4 (01:18:54):
Then the people who were spiritual, or the shamans, or
in this case, the kings wanted to bring those gods
back and have those gods speak through them.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
So they became the god. And so.

Speaker 4 (01:19:09):
Once they had this whole guil right and they were anointed,
they were then able to take on a new sona.
They were no longer themselves, they were the God incarnate.
Now it was more than just a poor play, because
it is my belief that they were in touch with
that entity, whatever that entity is. And so that being said,

(01:19:34):
they could be very reasonable to think that those entities
are still here, but just not here like you intimated
that they're here, but they're just not here. It's this
other dimensional component, and that one way that we may
be able to witness them is through these altered states
of consciousness that were prescribing. So I think to answer

(01:19:59):
more directly whether or not the on Arnaki are here,
think that when we talk about things like the Machinelt,
when we talk about perhaps angels, demons, not all of them,
of course, but when we talk about the entities, elves,
whatever it could be arcans, I think that we're all

(01:20:22):
sort of pulling on the same thread, like the parable
of the Blind men and the elephant. Everybody, you know,
one has the trunk, another has the foot.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
And they're arguing about what do you have?

Speaker 4 (01:20:34):
I have this, and they're all describing it, but they
can't see that they're really holding onto this bigger picture.
They just have a piece of the truth. So sometimes
the language is problematic, as we say, elves, fairies, self
replicating machines, whatever new term we want to put to it.
But Carl said they were the archetypes, and I feel

(01:20:59):
like that is a a better way to look at them.
And again, some people may not be satisfied with that
because it doesn't have a illness to it. It almost
seems like, oh, they're just fantasy then, But but fantasy imagination,
imagination is magic. The imagination is where you go inward
and you visualize and in some ways you can you
know if you I guess if you're on the right drugs,

(01:21:21):
or if you're doing the right meditation, or in some ways,
if people are practicing the cult, you know ways that
they could do this. This imagination comes something more manifest.
It can become an aggregre even.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
Right, yeah, yeah, fascinating. Well, okay, but did they create us?
That's the one of the components of the story that
everybody you know wants that answer to. So are we

(01:21:58):
a creation of the end on a Naki?

Speaker 4 (01:22:03):
Possibly, but I don't know if it's if it would
be best represented with something like the ancient gods and
lab coats and beakers. But I think that there there's
definitely reason to believe that something happened.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
And I think that.

Speaker 4 (01:22:21):
You know, not to mention AI again as though it's
going to save us all, because it's probably going to
do the opposite. But artificial intelligence is getting much better
now at being able to look at the human genome
and try to identify where there may have been snips
or things changed, to be able to locate exactly what
changed and when, to determine if it were just simple

(01:22:43):
environmental factors that may have launched us into one way
or another, or to be able to see if there
was some sort of actual splicing that occurred, in which
case we'll have maybe a better answer to that. But
I think that when you look at the trajectory of
human nature and what we've been able to accomplish, and

(01:23:03):
I throw it back to that big brain bang again.
We don't really know how we got to this point
where our brain started just getting really large and we
started getting very intelligent and able to abstract in the
level that we have. There's a handful of explanations. One
has been Richard Rangham and his catching fire theory, and
that's a really good one, where you basically were able

(01:23:26):
to cook the food to the point where it broke
the cell wall of the vegetation so that you were
able to access the nutrients when there wasn't meat available,
and so cooking food makes it more nutrient dense, and
that's a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
But then there's also.

Speaker 4 (01:23:40):
Terrence McKenna who brought up Stonegate theory. That could have
been that while we were chasing unguillitson on there dung,
the mushrooms grow, they're psychedelic, and we were just trying
to get to our food source, but in the meantime
eating these and then.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
Starting to have these exactly So.

Speaker 4 (01:23:57):
The problem I have with that though, is that it
wouldn't necessarily get passed down generationally. If you have a
psychedelic experience, it would get passed down culturally though, so
then you would have a new ritual that would you
teach it?

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
You could, you could teach it, you could teach it.

Speaker 4 (01:24:14):
Yeah, so there's a lot And then there's an idea
of fish the people on the coast, once people were
moving closer out that way, having access to fish with
each a and a different omega, fatty acids being very
good for the brain, and that would affect the fetus.
So pregnant females eating that sort of like superfood, then
the baby's going to have a bigger brain and so on.
And so there's all of these questions about like the.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Sugar cane theory, which which I prescribed.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
To so I'm not familiar with that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
Okay, well two things were key is Okay, eating sugar
cane gave our brain the energy that it needed to grow.
It's very energy intensive. It takes a lot of energy.
That combined with red meat and that, Yeah, the protein

(01:25:07):
side and you had the fuel side happened at the
same time, and that was the expansion of which is
part of the decline of the Western civilization. Right now,
we're not eating sugar or red meat and we're getting stupid.
So maybe maybe there is something to that, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:25:24):
Yeah, So but there's those are the things that I
guess My broader point is that we don't know why
we are the way we are, but so we can
and for something happened that there was a catalyst, that
it wasn't just an organic sort of evolution, because we
have we we know what happened and then all of
a sudden boom, something took off. So just like something

(01:25:46):
took off with the idea of civilization, something took off
on a biological level for us that was also rapid.
So there was a catalyst in both situations. So whether
or not that it was something environmental or we can
have those discussions. But I wouldn't rule out the form
of intervention, and I think that it would require some

(01:26:09):
massive scientific lab In fact, I think it's a very
very old fashioned way. If you consider that individuals made
very good at animal husbandry and they built a civilization
in which we were meant to serve them and worship
them and work for them, then we would have been
their cattle too, and they would have breasked the same way.

(01:26:30):
So there could have selective breeding, There could have selective nutrition,
There could have been a lot of different things as
well as then the cultural milieu of psychedelics and ritual
behavior and getting us involved in a whole host of different,
say mystery trutans or innations where we were brought up
somehow really physically. I would bet that it would have

(01:26:53):
something more to do with that than something that was
a little like there's your gene sequence. But again the
genes would bear that out as well. You'd be able
to see that. I think we're going to find those
answers within the next probably twenty years at the least,
But I do that there was probably some intervention.

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
When you look at the basic basics of things, and
the domestication of wheat certainly was huge, huge, right, You
almost can't measure how big it was. But how did
it happen? Because if you and I, right, fifteen thousand

(01:27:34):
years ago, and we're out on the savannah running away
from jaguars, right, trying not to get eaten, Well, that's
how you survived. You know who got eaten the guy
that stopped on the savannah going wait ah, man, it's
coming to me, wheat. We need to write. So those thinkers,

(01:27:59):
that kind of stuff got them into trouble because you
were always in survival mode. You had to survive the
night when the beast came out, right, you know what
I mean, you just had to get to the sun
up in the morning. And that was the challenge of
day to day life. So how or was it like
Okham's razor. Did somebody come along and teach them about

(01:28:23):
the domestication of weed? Did somebody teach them a written language?
Did somebody teach them the cosmos? Did somebody teach them
mathematics and these these ideas? Because it all seemed to
happen at rapid fire.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
Oh yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (01:28:40):
Think it's it was taught. I mean, I really have
no doubt that these were things that were taught. And
it's a kind of an unpopular take, especially in like
a mainstream context, because it infers that there is some
sort of lacking on the part of the.

Speaker 2 (01:28:57):
Paleolithic people. But I mean it is what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:29:00):
Well, you can't just you can't heather, you can't go
against the dogma.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
That's terrors that harm. I am such a heretic in
every way. It's terrible.

Speaker 4 (01:29:12):
But yeah, but I think that's what it is, is
that you have a clear point. You can say, well,
we had thousands of years of evolving and we never
really did it until right there.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
So there isn't that a.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
Pile of bullshit? And and let me tell you why
it is that. I'm gonna say dogma again in the
same paragraph. But but forever, three thousand BC was the
magic year, right, Don't talk to us about anything before
three thousand BC. There's nothing to discuss, right as sumer

(01:29:51):
And yeah, the Fertile Crescent and Egypt, you know, Roman
and Greece, that was fifteen hundred years later. That wasn't
even in the play, right, So it's all right there
right there, Egypt and Consumer and Mesopotamia. But go Beckley

(01:30:11):
Teppee comes along.

Speaker 4 (01:30:12):
I was gonna say, yeah, game, I'm waiting for go
Beckley Teppy.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
Yeah, go beck Lee Teppy. But yeah, here's the thing
with that, though, that's seven thousand years prior, not seven hundred,
not seven weeks, not seven thousand years before. And what
does that do? That goes right into that twelve five

(01:30:37):
hundred BC magic number. That that ties into Puma Punku
and Central and South America and other cultures around the
world were that that number. Epic of Gilgamet right u,
the the the the the King's List at Edfu and
the and the Builders. So you read that script, you

(01:30:59):
read the Builders text, and it clearly states that somebody
showed up in Egypt ten thousand years before they wrote it,
which was at two thousand BC, right, so twelve thousand
years ago the people, the founders of Egypt, showed up

(01:31:19):
and started teaching as things. And it's really weird where
we get this repetition of stuff three thousand years before
what academia wanted us to believe for years, that dogma
segment of things. And I think that's crucial. What's scarier,
what scarier to the world et is visiting us? Ghosts

(01:31:42):
are reel or there was an ancient civilization right before everything.
What would terrify the world more probably the ancient civilization thing.

Speaker 4 (01:31:54):
I think the implication of the where they went is
probably the thing everybody in positions of power afraid of.
And I think that's at the core of this is
the myth of progress, this myth that we are on
this linear path towards something fickally like. It may maybe
in a spiritual sense, sure we can ascend, but how
about a material sense if we say, well, no, we

(01:32:18):
aren't better than we were maybe before that, what if
this was a reboot and we're not quite there and
that the past was much better.

Speaker 1 (01:32:26):
That's terrifying.

Speaker 4 (01:32:27):
It's terrifying because it could happen again. And I think
that's what they know. I think they know that there's
if you have this myth of the linear progress, there's
the cyclical component, like the Cali Yuga, like this idea
that hey, is something could happen again. Are we in
for another, say, reboot event? And I think that's probably

(01:32:49):
the scarier thing. And I think that's the thing that
some people are actually preparing for.

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
When we look at where we are today, seems pretty cool,
seems like this could go on forever. Well, let's talk
about Egypt, right, you know where you have you have
the first nation, the first nation? Right? Was Egypt? The

(01:33:17):
first nation three thousand years right? Three? The United States
two hundred and fifty years old. It's nothing, right, Egypt
three thousands? How did that just go away and get
covered up in sand? How How could that happen? It
happened to Rome, happened to Greece, right, And we see

(01:33:38):
this repetition over and over again. Is it possible that
a civilization prior came and went and then something else evolved,
and maybe even something else and then us, And that
that's terrifying to think about because we just think that
we've got it all figured out. Well, you know what
Egypt did too, At one point Egypt had it all

(01:34:02):
figured out. They really did.

Speaker 4 (01:34:05):
And it makes us feel safe and in control to
think that we're at the top, we're at the apex,
and it's only going to get bigger and better and
one day it's like the jets of offlying cars and
who knows, we'll live forever. And it's just this promise
that I don't think that is in the cards necessarily,
because we have to realize that we are not God,

(01:34:26):
big g. There is such a thing still as nature
and the best laid plans of mice and men, right,
I mean, we're something and then all of a sudden
one it's like a solar flare, what you know, a commet,
some great cataclysts, poll.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
Shift, whatever it could be.

Speaker 4 (01:34:42):
But we're going to be sitting there on like TikTok
or something, giggling at some video and then the whole
thing's over and EMP hits and then we're trying to
figure out.

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
How to make fire again.

Speaker 4 (01:34:52):
I mean I know that sounds dire, but I really
think that that is within the realm of possibility. And
you know, trying to say everybody goes your storable foods,
although you should, but you know, cook at.

Speaker 2 (01:35:02):
Yourstorable foods or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:35:04):
But this humility, we have to have more of a
humility and more appreciation for where we're at, and an
appreciation for the people the past, and don't look at
them as though they were you know, starting at square
one in an how we're so evolved that maybe they
knew something. So Graham Hancock always says that, you know,
we're a species with asia, and I would agree with that,

(01:35:27):
but I also would add that we're a species with
postcad e stress disorder, that somehow all of us at
a civilizational level know that something happened and we work
through it, just like somebody with some sort of PTSD
where they go through something and then maybe the trauma

(01:35:47):
leads them to reenact the cycle over and over again,
and they're just trying to grapple with it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:52):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:35:52):
They say that people who like, I don't know, like
they like somebody grows up with like an alcoholic father,
and then they end up with alcoholic men, and they.

Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
Just are trying to fix. And so there's this whole
thing that.

Speaker 4 (01:36:02):
Is a profile psychologically that an individual can have, but
that a society can have as well. And I think
that's something that when you look at say the Mammath
or the Hero's Journey, when you look at our stories
and our myths and the things that we're trying to
always say, we're going to warn. We're always trying to
tell some message in these stories cross culturally that wow, out,

(01:36:26):
be humble, this could happen again. They're always warning us
that a cataclysm is just around the corner. Be humble,
you know, just be god fearing whatever that pot is.

Speaker 1 (01:36:38):
Here's here's the thing with that, and it's so true.
Let's say, hypothetically, let's just go with this emp hits tomorrow,
everything is over, We're back to the Stone Age in
two weeks. That's how long it'll take for our food
supply chain to run out. And we are tribal club

(01:37:00):
wielding right craziness. Okay, if that happens, how long. I'm
a smart guy. I know how this works, right, I
know how to dial, I know how to serve. How
long does it take for us to build factories to
make these again.

Speaker 2 (01:37:22):
Exactly how tenth ye.

Speaker 1 (01:37:26):
Maybe maybe ever, maybe we'll evolve in another direction. That is, well,
maybe that's a humbling thought. That's a humbling thought. There
was a paper published, and the time that we have left,
we spoke about this throughout the whole show. There was
check this out. There was a paper published two weeks
ago by a materials scientist, a pragmatic, non spiritual, black

(01:37:51):
and white, chemically driven right chemistry material scientists that went
and looked at the math and came to the conclusion
that consciousness is non local and exists before material space

(01:38:13):
and time. Consciousness is first. And that's like a holy
crap moment, right, that's the opposite of what any physicists
or chemist or biologists is going to tell you. That
consciousness is particles that accumulate between your ears, and consciousness
arises out of that. It's local, she says, no, And

(01:38:38):
the paper is now published. That's a really, really big deal,
and that aligns with what the ancients have been talking
to us about for thousands and thousands of years. You
and I, well, I can't speak for you, but our
community has always been consciousness is what connects the universe, right,

(01:38:58):
it's first and to us. If science starts to and
they should, starts to look at this fundamentally and rethink
who we are, then we will evolve as a species.
That's a pretty extraordinary moment, isn't it. But the amnesia, right,

(01:39:20):
the ancients already knew that, But somewhere we got the disconnection, right,
Capitalism came along, right, whatever, But what do you make
of that? Do you think science is ready for this
kind of new framework?

Speaker 2 (01:39:36):
Well, yes and no. The industry of science, no, the.

Speaker 4 (01:39:42):
People, the rational minded people, we've been far past this.
We all sort of know, we're really awake to this.
Consciousness is all there is really at the end of
the day. Now, of course, what is consciousness?

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
Who knows?

Speaker 4 (01:39:57):
Nobody's able to give us a really great definition of that.
But there is something, There is something, and I think
that this is the golden thread that ties everything together
from the now to the past. The thing that I
think it transcends this of the Anaki, because I think
it is the playground of the Onnaki, so to speak.

(01:40:20):
I think that that's what we're looking at, is something
that is consciousness oriented and something that was in the past.
But is also something we're dealing with now in terms
of a phenomena. So for instance, and I'm not the
only person who thinks that's necessarily and in fact, a
lot of people who are in the science sciences are

(01:40:41):
looking at it in this way. So there's a lot
of research going into say like extended states of whether
they're DMT or other chemicals, but going into extended states
of altered consciousness in order to get information often commune
these entities whatever they may be, whether they're apkalu, whether

(01:41:04):
they're on ornak, whether they're alter who knows, whatever they are.
Even in this modern era where we have hard science
and you know, facts and technology, we have a lot
of technologists who are researching that going through these seats
in order to get in touch with something that we
would say within the realm of collective unconscious.

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
So even at that.

Speaker 4 (01:41:26):
Material sense, we're dealing with something that is undeniably immaterial.

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
Do you believe I said believe? Do you know? Do
you know? If h do you think that et is
visiting visiting us in the past word, yes, I would say, yes,
that's a hard yes, But like right now today, are
we being visited? Are we in contact.

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
I think so. I think so. I don't know so that.

Speaker 4 (01:42:03):
I don't know that it's anything like what we were
told or led to believe media and movies and some
of it, maybe because some people do like to put
a little disclosure in here and there in the arts.
But overall, I think that what we're dealing with is
something that is non local. It's extraterrestrial in origin. But

(01:42:27):
I'm one of those people that I think that if
you're so advanced that you can just come and visit
us and whatever, then you're probably doing it in those
nineteen sixties and bolts machines. But instead you're doing something
completely different, completely unknown to us at least, and able
to do something at a level that our science just
doesn't understand, and that we may look at that and

(01:42:49):
call it spiritual or something because we lack the terminology otherwise.
But no, I definitely think that we visited. I think
we've always visited, and I just don't think we have
the right words and framework as a people to understand
what that looks like. Now some of us do, some
of us have access to that information, and hopefully those

(01:43:10):
individuals will, you know, clue us in a little bit better.
But maybe it's something that we're not ready for. Maybe
we aren't ready for disclosure.

Speaker 2 (01:43:19):
I would like to be.

Speaker 4 (01:43:20):
I want to know, so I'd rather pull the date
off right. I'm tired of the waiting game.

Speaker 2 (01:43:26):
I'm ready to know. But maybe it's something so big,
right right, Heather.

Speaker 1 (01:43:31):
It could be. It could be a mix of just
about everything that we can imagine. It could be physical,
metallic craft where they have figured out a way to
get from point A to point B in a craft.
It could be interdimensional. It could be that it could

(01:43:52):
be traveling between universes and the multiverse. It could be
that where the al time is instant, it's not. It
doesn't take minutes or hours or years, it's and different
civilizations out there have figured uh out the logistics of

(01:44:14):
getting from one point in the universe to the other,
and we're just not there yet. So it could be.
It could be a mix of everything, because I have
seen I've seen physical craft, I've seen those. How did
it get here? I don't I don't know, well what's
behind I don't know, But I've seen stuff appear and
disappear too as well. And as crazy as that sounds,

(01:44:37):
it doesn't mean that I'm suggesting it's the same race
or species of VT from the same planet. No, man,
there's so many, so many stars and planets and galaxies
out there that maybe they visit us just once.

Speaker 2 (01:44:56):
We don't even know what's in our oceans, So no,
we don't. How do we not know?

Speaker 4 (01:45:00):
You know? I mean there could be things in the ocean.
There's also, of course, hollow earth theory. There's a lot
to consider that we just don't know. And so I
think that if we grapple with that, it might be
a little scary to think that there's things that have
been on Earth with us that are maybe on some
level that we don't see them, but they're here with us,

(01:45:22):
that they're also maybe beneath our feet or in our
waters and in our sky, and they're coming in and
out all the time. I think that if we open
ourselves up to that, people might be very scared. And
so maybe that's why it's easier to just deny that
any of it exists at all.

Speaker 1 (01:45:36):
Yeah, for sure, I don't know. I mean, I would
love for some crazy announcement, right, so we can just go, Okay, now,
let's go and figure that out. Right, So we got
that answered, okay, but could the planet really handle you know,
the White House to help all office live a TV going, Well, okay, yes,

(01:45:58):
we're not alone. As a matter of fact, we've got
a base in the Pacific. We've got a base in
the Atlantic Ocean, and we've known about it for a
long time and we're in contact and they come and
go as they please. What right that? Yeah? That that
that that could be. That could be anarchy, that could

(01:46:19):
be I.

Speaker 2 (01:46:19):
Think it would be.

Speaker 4 (01:46:20):
I think it would be. And so you really have
to I mean I do. I used to be a
little more like activist about these sorts of things, and
again back to like when I first started, I was
more like, you know, democracy, everyone has to know everything.

Speaker 2 (01:46:35):
At all times.

Speaker 6 (01:46:35):
And I've since sort of tempered that a little bit
because I've seen some things myself and had to think
about how to say certain things or maybe not say
certain things, which is disappointing, but sometimes you can do
more harm than good by telling people everything they're not
ready to hear.

Speaker 1 (01:46:56):
Yeah, I've done the same thing. I have done the
same thing I have. I've toned it down a bit.
The things that I've experienced I've verbalized and spoken about
probably a one percent of them. The rest of it,
it's you know what, let's just let this play out

(01:47:17):
and I'll talk about it later, but let's let some
things bubble to the surface before we start to go there.
There's that part and then there's a I was just
like you man, let it all out, No secrets allowed, right,
but yeah, really, honestly, some things need to remain a secret. Yeah. Here,

(01:47:40):
we humans can't handle stuff, and there are believe it
or not, there's bad people in this world. Really, yeah,
really there is. I know, I know, I know, news flash, right,
news flash. And if that's a you know, letting us
know about the nature component of it, nature, which is

(01:48:03):
is their life out there? That's nature? Right? Is there
a new species in the Amazon forest, Well, we're allowed
to know that. Well, is there something out there, well,
that's that's that's ours, that's humans right to know. Is
there something that needs to be kept secret about that
that we don't want bad people to know about a

(01:48:24):
technology or whatever. Well, I'm okay with that. I'm okay
if there's something like that that you need to keep
on the down low. But is their life out there?
Is it visiting us that shouldn't be kept from us
that I think. I think the planet knows this, they
just need it confirmed.

Speaker 4 (01:48:44):
Yeah, yeah, And we need to be able to figure
out what we're going to do next so that we
don't have a big surprise, you know, we don't want
that white house lawn sort of moment. We want to
be able to ourselves and figure out how to integrate
these ideas and move forward. And I don't think it's
was negative, but I think I think that the I
think people can handle more than what their givings.

Speaker 1 (01:49:06):
Now we're talking about the ananachy tonight, let's close out
with this. I want your take. Talked about the pine cones,
we talked about poppies, and hey, Rono is the handbags?
What what is going on with the handbags? What's your take?

Speaker 4 (01:49:32):
Well, the idea that it's involved with agricultures is sort
of a starting point. But I happen to think after
researching this sort of H'll gill right and what the
Sumerians were doing with this, it was associated more with
this poppy, this cultivation not just like a pollination, but

(01:49:54):
more like the pollination of the mind. So this anointing,
So it was more of like a ritual thing and
there are are different handbags so that were discovered that
we're actually made of stone, so we don't really know
what they were made of, but there are some replicas
that have been discovered in these regions that are like
carved out of stone and so they're containers. Some people

(01:50:16):
have suggested that they're used to weight a coffin, so
like you would almost like an anchor. So they've tried
to figure out what these things they were, but they
very much look like just the handbags. So if you
consider in this idea of maybe there's a substance that
they're using or they're doing something for ritual purposes, and

(01:50:37):
they are in fact made of stone, then that could
make sense into having a vessel to hold whatever it
is the medicinal things were. So to not know what
they were made of makes it a little more difficult.
If they were made of something more organic like a
cloth or some sort of animal in you know inside,
like a stomach or something, then it would have been

(01:50:59):
more difficult to I think have the substance that they
would have been using for the anointing purposes. Having it
in stone would have been easier, And there are stone
ones that have been found so, but whether or not
that's what it is, it's really just impossible to say.
My gut tells me that it has to do with

(01:51:21):
something more ritual and something that it's still tied to
this opening of the third eye or this transcendence or
this initiation process into something greater. You do see it
in all of the sites that have these great civilizations
and these turning points where something big hap. It's never
just you know, willing to here or there, it's somewhere

(01:51:42):
profound and it's an important part of the architecture or
the art motif. So I just am more inclined to
believe that these are ritual items that are implicated in
the transcendence sort of quest that they had.

Speaker 1 (01:52:00):
Hmmm. Interesting, I'm I'm I I think it's knowledge. I
think it's like the nuclear suitcase, the nuclear football. You
know that the president cares around them. Yeah, that that
it could be that like just knowledge, collective knowledge. But

(01:52:28):
I do find very interesting that just about every culture
has done this, and you can point around the world
the most important things that stand out with these civilizations
they don't talk about. There's no information from the Egyptians
how they built the pyramids, there's no archaeological architectural how

(01:52:52):
they built the temples. There's nothing in Egypt on how
mummification happened. These fundamental things, right, the fact, foundation, the fabric,
there's nothing there. Right, It's like really bizarre. China's got
the same situations with it, even India. Right, these very
fundamentals are not described. And it's the same thing with

(01:53:16):
these with these handbags that every culture in the world
seems to have, but there's no there's no descriptor tied
to it. And I find that. I find that bizarre.

Speaker 4 (01:53:27):
Do you think they're then like the so in many
indigenous communities they had the sacred bundles? Do you think
it's something like that?

Speaker 1 (01:53:36):
Yeah, well, you know, it's the knowledge that continues the
civilization that has been accumulated and handed down. I think
that's what it is. And there's okay, And I'll give
you another example of and I keep going back to Egypt,
but I researched Egypt every single day trip on King

(01:54:02):
Tut's tomb complete, right, everything was in there. It was cool.
All the everything that a pharaoh needed and had was
placed in that tomb, solid gold coffin, right, crazy, insane
everything was in there. You know what was not in there?

Speaker 2 (01:54:28):
Building plans for the pyramids?

Speaker 1 (01:54:31):
His crown?

Speaker 2 (01:54:34):
Oh well, I guess yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:54:37):
Every pharaoh depicted in hieroglyphs, in temples everywhere. The crowns
are there, both right, upper and Lower Egypt. The two
crowns are there. They're depicted. No crowns have ever been
discovered in Egypt now now, so well, okay, maybe they were.

(01:55:04):
They were laws and they were this and that. Okay, Well,
King Tut's tomb was complete, got everything out of there
except for the crowns. And it kind of goes back
to like this hand, So what did the crown? What
what did it represent? And why has it? It's it's everywhere,

(01:55:25):
It's all over every temple, right you see, it not
never been found. And it goes back to those we
don't know. It's like one of these mysteries like those
handbags and the pine cones too, the pine cones too.
There's no there's no rhyme or there's nothing in the
historical record that says what that means and what it represents.

(01:55:50):
I find that part fascinating. And do do we back
up Heather and go, well, some things we're just not
supposed to know. Maybe you don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:56:02):
No, we got to keep digging. Well, I keep going it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:06):
So it's that's that's what drives me trying to get
to these answers. And and I think that in the end,
consciousness is going to be the key, uh for us
to not only evolve, but to understand it fully. And
maybe we're not supposed to understand it. Maybe maybe we're not.

(01:56:27):
Maybe it's just supposed to be, you know, just one
step away from us. But ET has probably got it
figured out and probably. Yeah, that's my question, by the way,
I say it on every show, that's my question to ET.
Not food, not a cure for cancer, pollution or no consciousness? Man,

(01:56:48):
how did you guys figure that out? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:56:52):
Oh, I'd like to know that too. But we won't stop.
We won't stop asking these questions. And we're going to
try to find it out no matter what, even though
maybe there are some things that we shouldn't find out.

Speaker 2 (01:57:03):
But I'm a glutton for punishment.

Speaker 1 (01:57:04):
So you're the best, You're the absolute best. Where can
everybody follow all of your work? What's the best thing
to do?

Speaker 4 (01:57:11):
Www dot doctor Ewan dot com. It's d R Heather L.
Y n N dot com and you'll find everything there.

Speaker 1 (01:57:17):
Book comes out February second. You excited, very excited.

Speaker 2 (01:57:22):
I'm so excited for this one.

Speaker 4 (01:57:23):
It's like loaded with lots of original discoveries and like
really wild ideas and it's just I'm dying.

Speaker 2 (01:57:29):
I'm dying to get it out.

Speaker 1 (01:57:30):
Well, isn't it. Isn't it fun to step outside of
the box. Isn't that the best thing to do?

Speaker 5 (01:57:36):
It is?

Speaker 2 (01:57:37):
It is so much fun.

Speaker 4 (01:57:38):
It is so much fun because it feels freeing, you know,
it's just like getting dead weight off and being like
I see it now.

Speaker 2 (01:57:45):
So it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:57:46):
You're the best. I really appreciate our friendship. And we've
been doing this forever and we've had a gap. Let's
not gap this again.

Speaker 2 (01:57:55):
Okay, Oh no, no, no gap. Call me. I'm always around.

Speaker 1 (01:57:59):
I know, I know, and we do have some plans
when you come out to LA. I'm going to make
that happen. Okay, all right, yeah, all right, I'll talk
to you, doctor Heatherlin. Heather enjoy the rest of your evening.

Speaker 2 (01:58:10):
Thank you, thanks everyone, the absolute.

Speaker 1 (01:58:13):
Very best, Doctor Heatherlin. Her links are below. The book
is out available for pre order right now. It is
out February second on Aanaki Revelations. Okay, all right, so
that is it for tonight. I will tell you what
I am doing tomorrow in one second, which is oh
tomorrow Night Live from the UK. Gary hazelteen is with

(01:58:36):
us and former police officer Raf. By the way, Tomorrow
night we're going to talk about Rendelshim and his work
with his UFO database. We're going to be doing all
of that Tomorrow night with Gary from the UK. Thank you, Heather,
perfect show tonight. Thank you everyone. I'll see you tomorrow night.
But for now, all I've got is go bag Lee Tappy.

(01:59:03):
Fade to Black is produced by Hilton J. Palm, Renee Newman,
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(01:59:23):
kJ c R for the Game Changer Network. This broadcast
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