June 26, 2025 • 64 mins
This is such an episode, so full of information that you will not believe it! This week, our second of 2 PRIDE episodes this month, we discuss the life and times of Harvey Milk. We will look into the history of this young gay man who will grow up in the fifties and sixties before becoming a popular merchant and politician in the Castro Street area of San Francisco. We cover his political career and his murder in this special, let this bullet destroy every closet door episode of the Family Plot Podcast!!!
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/family-plot--4670465/support.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/family-plot--4670465/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm Dean, I'm the dad.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm Laura, I'm the mom, and I'm Arthur, I'm the son,
and together we are family.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Claw it'll be nice. Let's get the housekeeping out of
the just as fast as I'm able. We will start
with Tea Spring. If you want merchandise like oh Hoodies,
shirts and mugs, all featuring Arthur's own original artwork, Tea
Spring is the way to go. If you cannot afford
(01:18):
to buy merch which is fairly expensive, we get that,
you can always join our Patreon, which only has two levels,
one dollar and three dollars a month. Each level gets
you add free versions of the show, and the three
dollar level gets very special extra versions of the show
featuring things like Arthur's profanity laden rant against Sharon Kinney
(01:42):
Special all the Time. And if you cannot afford to
do a monthly donation, which again we don't judge, you
can just send us a dollar or two as a
one time donation through buy Me a Coffee. And if
you can't afford that, well, there is still some things
you can do for us. If you enjoy the show,
(02:03):
drop us a five star review and share the show
on social media.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Share it with friends, share it with family, with everyone,
and if you don't enjoy the show, please keep it
to yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
If you can't say something nice.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Don't say anything at all. So what are we talking
about today?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Well, today we go back to the seventies to meet
a man who was dubbed the Mayor of Castro Street.
Harvey Milk came up in New York City, where he
acknowledged his homosexuality and after World War Two, wrote about
changes in American life before moving to Castro Street in
San Francisco, where he became a political firebrand. In this
(02:49):
Pride Month historical and special episode of the Family Plot podcast,
and yet.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Again, another exciting story about another amazing individual born in
the month of May.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Sure, okay, so, yes, you are right. This is another
episode featuring a fabulous person that was born in May,
not May twenty seventh or May ninth, though Harvey was
born on May twenty second in nineteen thirty in Woodmere,
New York. Woodmere is close to Queens and Brooklyn and
(03:26):
is part of the Five Boroughs area of New York City.
He was born to William and Minerva and had an
older brother named Robert. William and Minerva had both served
in the US Navy and were Jewish people of Lithuanian descent.
They were part of the New York community called Litvas
(03:46):
and helped to found a synagogue. Harvey and Robert both
attended Bayshore High School. By the time Harvey attended Bay Shore,
he knew he was gay. He also had a wide
range of interests, including photography, writing for the newspaper, opera,
and playing football, among many others. While writing for the paper,
(04:09):
he wrote on several topics that today would be called
examinations of diversity. While in high school, Harvey and Robert
both worked in William's furniture store, which was called simply Milk's.
In fact, our picture comes that we have today, I
believe is a picture of Harvey in front of this sign,
(04:30):
because I believe it says milk.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Shall we take a trip over to your corner?
Speaker 5 (04:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Here, ye, here ye, allow me to present Arthur's corner. Hi, everyone,
how are we doing today?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Faboo? Pray faboo. See well last night but Trey out
of sight.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I'm glad that you're with us this week.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
We missed you last week, Yes, we missed you very much.
And Brenda missed you very much.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Yes, Brenda was sad that our Arthur wasn't here because.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
She able to hear me. I'm getting very upset. Does
she not have our patreoon?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I don't know that she. If she does, I don't
think she does. But no, she didn't. But she does
like that you get that you're a fire brain, that
you have things you care about, and it comes out
she likes that.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
She's a fan of our Arthur's.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, big fan, just like I'm a fan of.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Hers and yours. Obviously, I'm always a fan of my Arthur.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So what's going on in Arthur's corner? Today?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
We went swimming? We went swimming. Yeah, we went swimming.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
And you've been working hard and I've been working like
a fiend.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
My first prey paycheck is gonna be pretty good. I
know that it's gonna be crime.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Then your new favorite cryptid the squonk Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
The squawk, Oh my god. Okay, okay, So guys, I
wasn't here last week. If you could tell, you probably
couldn't because Dad's editing is so well done.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
I'm looking you being fleet tay.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I I wasn't here last week, so I couldn't talk
about the beautiful, stunning squonk that dad told me about.
Was it on Father's Day? It was on Father's Day?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, it was on Father's Day.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
The dad told us about on Father's Day. I love
the squonk. I want a pet squank. I'm gonna scoop
up all the water. I'm gonna scoop up all of
the water, and I'm gonna bring it home with me.
And and I thought, yep, yep, yep, in a bucket
a squawk tears, and then I'll just let it sit
in a room and then it can come to me
when he wants something, and it'll be great. It's it's
(07:07):
it's fine.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
You have a hole, you have a you have a
squank plan.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I got a squonk plan. If I see a squank,
watch out for me, squank. I'm coming to get you.
Gonna put it.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Put it in a little in a little bowl, a
little dish, a little dish. Put a little sign post
it note says pet squank.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Pet squawk.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Just don't corner it or else it'll turn into a
into water.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I won't corner it. He can come to me. So cute.
I love squonks. They're so cute.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
They're they're very kind of cute ugly.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
They're they're the type of ugly that's super cute, like
like pugs.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, or hairless things.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, I love hairless things.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Oh my, the Smallest commercial with Bruce Wayne the cat.
I'm in love with Bruce Wayne the cat from the
Smallest Commercial.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
And I can't stand it's the best. I can't stand
that cat, mostly because I can't stand the person that
owns it. You're mean, Yeah, well she's horrible, so what
see you? Because she has no rationalization for who she
is other than the way she feels, and I feel
(08:32):
like that's wrong. The Hecker you.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Talk to you.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
The way? What else is going on? Arthur?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
My brain is going in three separate ways emotional uppeople
right now, stuff going stuff down?
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Yeah, stuff going down in Arthur's background. You want to
catch corner short and we can go to the next
section since you're having emotional issues.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Straw, Straw, I got sushi. You got sushi, and you're welcome.
Had sushi in so long and my mom that neat
SUCHI your mom.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Let's be clear, it's it's it's sushi and it'll be
decent because it comes from high v but it's grocery
store sushi, which is in as high quality ask Astroni sushi.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And if I could have more sushi, I would, but
I don't have my paycheck yet. And when I get
my paycheck, you best believe I'm gonna go out and
get sushi.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Just keep in mind that you've got some money coming
back to me for all the stuff I shelled up.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, I know, like them forty dollars shoes or whatever.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Okay, I'm getting reimbursed for that. That's what I'm saying.
I'm given. I'm giving her the twenty dollars because that's
all they give you. They give you twenty dollars. Pretty
girls better than nothing. I gotta give that to Desiree,
who's desire to her. I showed it to uh Diana,
(10:13):
but she said that I needed to give it to Desireel.
And haven't given it to desire yet because every time
I see Desiree, I need to talk to her about
something more important. I see, well, not more important, but
you're good. I get it. Guys. I feel like an adult.
This isn't okay.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
Arthur is an adultier adult, Nuther, You're behaving more adult
than some members of our family who are technically older
and more adult than.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I'm proud of you. Yes, and I want to make
that very clear. I'm very proud of you. You've done
a good job. Like if I had been your boss,
I would be like smiling ear to ear. You're there early,
you stay late. You worry about silly things like your
coworkers being mad at you for leaving when you're supposed to.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
They were met because I asked to leave eleven minutes
after my shop. I was so scared. I was like, hey,
can I get off now? And he's just like, I
thought you were here until seven. I'm like, I'm not
here until seven today. No, not today, sir. I'm only
here till four today, not not not seven. I would
(11:31):
love to stay here until seven if I'm gonna get
you know, more moolah. But uh, if that's unpaid work, dude, sorry,
it gets a lot of work with for work unpaid.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, like they can get in trouble just for you'd
forgetting to clock in if the right people shows up.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Oh no, they always have a manager there. Always, there's
always at least one manager there.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
That's good. That that's quality way to run a business.
Always have somebody who knows what they're doing on on staff.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I'm so sad because dad came or not dad, mom
came through my drive through doing.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Trying to find my other house.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Shoot, it's like under your there you go.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Oh okay, but but I'm bump, but I'm bump bump, bump,
bump bum.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I know how to answer customers customers. I know how
to do drive through and answer customers. And it's funny
because people will come through not notice it's.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Me, and they'll say stuff, no, they like, tell me.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Their order, and then they'll come through and they'll just
be like because I have a different, different voice from
customer service boys.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Everybody does, and everybody's heard about the bird. Bird bird bird,
bird is the word. So are you ready to take
the next section?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It was time to get back to the show already.
After graduating high school, where Harvey was quite popular, he
attended the New York State College for Teachers these days
were renamed State University of New York. There, he focused
on history, served on the school paper. Yes he served,
(13:48):
We joined a fraternity, and got a degree in mathematics.
He graduated in nineteen fifty one. From there, he followed
his in his parents' footsteps and joined the Navy during
the Korean Conflict. He did basic training at the now
Naval Naval Station YEP Naval Station of the Great Lakes
(14:11):
in Illinois, before being assigned to the Submarine Slash Rescue
Ship USS Kilwaukee Kia. Believe okay, kid awake, I think
it's Kilwaukee.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Didn't say Kilwaukee. I just thought it was kid awake.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I don't know, might be kidwaick uh, where he served
as a diving officer. From there, he went to the
Tow Officer Candidate School in Newport, Rhode Island. After that,
he was stationed in Naval Island Naval Station the San
(14:52):
Diego where he's.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Naa no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I shouldn't do it again, where he's served as a
diving instructor. Somewhere after this, he resigned from the Navy
the name the Navy gave less than gave him less
than no honorable bit discharge because it had to come
out that he was a homosexual. Oh man, what the heck?
(15:19):
He returned home at to Long Island, where he began
to teach at local high school and pursued a man
named Campbell. They started a relationship and moved to Texas
so that they didn't have to live through such hard winters.
Harvey wrote Campbell poems and love letters, not like al
(15:41):
liking the local scene in Texas. Oooh no, no, no, no, no,
homosexuals like Taxis Texas.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Dude, it's probably worse than nineteen fifties.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
No, probably way worse than nineteen fifties. I'm not debating that.
They returned to New York. After six years together, the
couple broke up and went their separate ways. He considered
a lavender marriage, specifically a marriage between a gay man
and a straight woman, a straight man and a gay woman,
(16:11):
or a gay man and a gay woman to give
each other a front and allow them to quietly continue
to pursue their sexuality in an unobtrusive way. Boy, do
I know what lavender marriage means. He chose to stay
in New York when he met Craig Rodwell. Craig was
(16:32):
in his twenties. Milk was just over thirty at this time,
but Craig was a mender of the.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I'm sorry member, I probably miss member.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Of the Mattashine Madachine. I believe Matachine Madachine Society the
Matachine decided Society was a society devoted to gay rights,
and Craig would have would often have conflicts with the police.
We discussed amount of Time Society Madachine Society briefly in
(17:08):
episode one and fifty eight about a stone Front uprising.
Check it out. We'll wait. Wink because that's I added
that one in That was me. Y'all couldn't see it,
but I winked.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Here, come right back, take your time.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Take your time, just pause this one. Go go listen
to the other one day. That was almost one hundred
episodes ago. I know, right, feeling fancy, feeling fancy, guys.
One such conflict had rod while walking through Risp Rise Park.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, I think it's Rise with two eyes.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Okay, Okay, I think so, because I'm not gonna call
it riz Park absolutely not a hangout for game minute time.
He was wearing a brief style swimming suit. However, laws
as a time said men's swimsuits should extend from above
the navel down to the mid thigh. Rodwell was arrested
(18:14):
for indecent exposure and inciting a riot that and spent
three days in jail. Jill was like, really bad that
back then, right.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
It was, but not as bad as it has been
in this country.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Fair enough, Stunts like this spelled doom for their relationship,
and the couple broke up. No, bro, let Harvey have
a good relationship. I mean he did for five years,
but come on, Harvey would stay in New York for
a while longer, secretly pursuing relationships with gay men.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Righty, So, now that we've got a little history with
mister Milk, let's take a few more moments and hear
from some of our fellow content creators.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Dave Liam it's a trailer.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Watch you if you can podcast.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Join us for each episode as we create box sets
of our favorite films and TV shows.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
We go through the cast to see what else they've
been in. Along with any recommendations, we pick.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Our favorite characters, performances, moments, and highlights from the sound.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Trying to we ask if there's anything to make it better.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I'll love at the lasting legacy of our pick. We
have a little fun with our quick five round, and finally,
what else would you like?
Speaker 4 (19:36):
List?
Speaker 7 (19:36):
Based on themes from the episode?
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Maybe just maybe you should watch it if you can?
Speaker 1 (19:48):
What if you've already seen it?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Well you can watch it again if you.
Speaker 8 (19:51):
Can any of this. Uiko a LATINX horror movie podcast
with Johnny.
Speaker 9 (20:04):
And Eileen I Guess the Espelus podcast. We explore the
often overlooked world of LATINX horror films. Gotta Am I Not.
We watch and discuss horror films from different countries in
Latin America.
Speaker 8 (20:17):
Or with a LATINX director or starring a LATINX lead.
See is the Latinki's We're watching it now?
Speaker 9 (20:23):
Was episode those every Monday.
Speaker 8 (20:25):
Listen to on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Okay, horror, I can't even say it how they say it.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
If I could understand Spanish, I would enjoy that show.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Definitely would listen to it.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Unfortunately, I am.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Very single lingual.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I know just a little Spanish because like several of
my kids have learned it and I picked it.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
I am bilingual. I speak with Taipanese, which is the
type of language I see.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Which I speak fluently.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I could read in Taipanese.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Also, Yeah, very nice, very nice.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I tell people that frequently when I'm training. Hey, so story, yay,
Sorry back to our story. For a while, Harvey would
go from job to job and career to career. He
was an insurance arctuary for a while, and then he
would switch to a researcher with the Wall Street firm
(21:36):
Bosh and Company. He did well there and was frequently promoted,
but he also rubbed his superiors the wrong way by
not taking their advice and flaunt flaunting his success. While
he was good at what he did, those around him
said his heart wasn't in it, which I imagine makes
(21:59):
sense because it would be kind of hard to throw
your heart into something when you're having to live a
locking most of the time. By pretending to be not
who you are, right right, Harvey would become involved with
a sixteen year old around this time. That's not super sectible.
(22:24):
It was it was more acceptable at the time. We
should stress that stress an understanding that this was not
illegal in late.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Fifties and early sixties.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
The sixteen year old's name was Jack Gallan McKinley. Milk
had recruited him to work on the campaign of conservative
presidential candidate Barry Goldwater. McKinley would often threaten to self
harm if Milk didn't pay.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Him enough attention.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
So not was he young and impressionable. It also sounds
like he might have had some emotional and mental issues.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Ooh yeah, trigger one.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, definitely should Yeah because selfarmism.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, self farm is pretty pretty triggering.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Topic went okay when I was when I was mid eighties,
heading into the nineties, it was still kind of acceptable
and there was still quite a few gay men who'd
like dating very much younger men. Now, when I say younger,
sixteen was about the limit, but it was fairly currently.
Speaker 7 (23:38):
Pretty is pretty young, no offense, but sixteen is sixteen,
you guys, pretty young for he's over thirty and he's
dating a sixteen years No, you guys, literally, I do
you guys?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Literally?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
A just called me one of the most mature sixteen
year olds you guys know. Yeah, And then b I
don't want to be in a relationship with a thirty
year old man.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
So I'm not people and immoral. I'm just throwing that
bag in there anyway. Him So McKinley already worked for
theater entrepreneur turned Broadway Impressed Crro Impressario Impressario. Tom O'Horgan
(24:26):
Milk would join the theater company as a general aide.
The cask, prized almost entirely of flower children would wear
away much of Harvey's conservative demeanor. He grew his fair out,
wore bill bottoms and beads, and became something of a
(24:47):
hippie himself. Those who knew him around this time said
that while he seemed to have no plan for his life,
he was happier than he had ever been. In fact,
while working at an investment firm in San Francisco, he
was told to cut his long hair. He refused and
(25:10):
then was fired. Harvey stayed in.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
San Francisco, but.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
McKinley went on to the traveling company of Jesus Christ Superstar. Yes,
that's very first musical theater live experience, and it was
so good. Harvey himself would settle in the Castro District.
(25:41):
He worked a string of odd jobs and eventually met
Scott Smith.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Tommy was Scott Smith.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Once a man who was eighteen years his junior, still
dating the younger boys. Harvey was around forty at this time,
and he started another relationship. They returned to New York
in nineteen seventy one for the Christopher Street Day celebration
(26:11):
of the Stone Wall Uprising Still episode if you want
to know more. If you didn't leave and listen last time,
this is your last chance. Afterwards, they returned to San Francisco,
where they left some photos to be developed. Those photos
(26:32):
were ruined, prompting the couple to spend the last of
their savings opening at Cambride's Stormer Store on Castro Street,
a popular area with gays.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Gays, I think that's it's more politically correct to say
LGBTQ plus these days.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
But yeah, well that's homosexuals.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Homosexuals. Yeah, okay, let's take a moment for a word
from our sponsors.
Speaker 10 (27:14):
Hello, well, I feel spond to thank you. Everybody. Have
a good day and have fun listening to this show.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Fight Bye bye, borster face, You're messy.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Around this time, politics were changing, but there was a subtle,
but not so quiet fight going on. Police were targeting
area parks where they were arresting many gay men for
public sex in an effort to drive the problem underground. However,
(27:50):
the gay community was organizing and fighting back, attracting powerful
people within the city who saw the power the group represented,
who courted them and fought for their interests. Meanwhile, Harvey
himself was having more and more concerns that required a
political fix, from his anger at conservatives over the events
(28:13):
of Watergate to his response to certain state initiatives, to
his loaning local schools camera equipment because what they had
didn't work. He saw all of this in the lens
of something he could fight and perhaps fix. He was
theatrical and outspoken, and that made him a popular figure
(28:34):
in the Castro Street community and its growing LGBTQ plus contingent.
He ran for the Board of Supervisors, and while he
didn't win, he came to the attention of the local
political scene. When a group of businessmen tried to prevent
two gay men from opening a store on Castro Street,
(28:54):
Milk organized the Castro Village Association, a first of its
kind association of mostly gay merchants. Working together with Milk's personality,
he was made president. He organized the Castro Street Fair
in nineteen seventy four. The Castro Street Fair was a
street festival featuring merchants, artists, and others celebrating the diversity
(29:19):
of the area. It is a festival that is held
on the first Sunday of October to this day. In
nineteen seventy five, Milk ran again for the San Francis
Cisco City Council and narrowly lost His longtime friend, Mayor
George jay Or. Mayor George Moscone appointed him to the
(29:43):
Board of Permit Appeals, making him the first openly gay
commissioner in the United States. Milk was beginning to get noticed. Later,
he ran for an open Assembly seat that lost that bit,
Milk realized that he needed to rely on voters in
the Castro who knew and supported him. To that end,
(30:06):
he and George Moscone began to campaign to change at
large elections for city council seats to district elections, so
only the people within the affected district voted for those candidates.
With these new election laws in place, he ran again
for the open seat and this time won easily. He
(30:27):
became an openly gay city councilman, and his win made
national and international news. As a city councilman, Harley focused
on the needs of his district, not just the LGBTQ
areas of his district. As a city councilman, he helped
create daycare centers for working mothers, helped with the conversion
(30:48):
of abandoned military facilities into low cost housing. He helped
make changes to the tax code, attracting businesses to abandoned
warehouses and factories. He also championed into LGBTQ rights, sponsoring
anti sponsoring an anti discrimination bill, advocated for safe neighborhoods,
called for the city to increase things like library services
(31:12):
and community policing in the Castro district, and spoke out
for marginalized communities, not just the LGBTQ. When State Senator
John Briggs attempted to marshall hate to create Proposition six,
a statewide ban on gay's working in public schools, a
bill that would also have gotten a school employee fired
(31:34):
for talking positively about Kay's Milk and others. Rallied against it,
and the proposition failed at a time when anti day
day discrimination in other parts of the country were succeeding.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And now another moment for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Hello, Hello, I'm back again.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
You feeling sponsored?
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yeah, now after we get back to the show.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, get back to the show.
Speaker 10 (32:14):
Everybody, the good boys.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Or girls or.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
People. Everyone be good.
Speaker 10 (32:22):
Everybody be good and also have a great day, have
a great day, because you guys are my pookies.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Pookies all.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Thank you well.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Harvey milk in his own words. In one speech, Harvey said,
and Dad thinks this is important. We are coming out
to fight the lies, the myths, the distortions. We are
coming out to tell the truth about gays. For I
am tired of the conspiracy of silence. So I'm going
(32:56):
to talk about it, and I want you to talk
about it. You must come out. He was aware that
as an openly gay man serving on the city council
he faced the specter of assassination. He never let that
stop him. He once famously said, if a bullet enters
(33:19):
my brain, let the bullet destroy every closet door. Those
words would be prophetic, prophetic. Okay, And you know what,
I appreciate that you had the gay one reading that.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
That was great.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I actually really appreciate that one.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Well, you know what he means by saying, let it
destroy every closet door, right.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Everything that ever hit him, everything that ever hid him.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
This gays were referred to as being in the closet
if they weren't out. He was saying, if he dies,
let everybody come out. Just everybody come out at once.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Oh makes sense.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Then now we're going to talk about Dan White. Dan
is going to be the villain of the piece, so
it's best we take a moment to get to know
our villain. Dan was born on September second, Not that
we really wanted him in our birthday month, but okay,
nineteen forty six. He was a Catholic born and raised
(34:21):
in the Visitation Valley section of San Francisco. He served
in the Army during the Vietnam War. Upon returning to
San Francisco, he served as a police officer for a
year before resigning after reporting another officer for beating a subject.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
While in handcuffs.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Then he joined the San Francisco Fire Department and served
there with distinction. He was seen as the all American boy.
He was elected to the city Council in nineteen seventy seven,
good year, the same year that Harvey Milk was and
initially they got along. However, he represented a mostly white,
(35:10):
middle class section of San Francisco who resented the growing
district of Pastrow and the homosexual community.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Oh good.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
He saw himself, according to a New York Times piece,
as the defender of the home, the family, and routent
and religious life against homosexuals, hotsmokers, and cynics. Well, Archie
just fabulous, aren't you the Despite this, initially, Milk and
(35:45):
White silk governor. However, when the Catholic Church suggested opening
a facility in White's district run by the Sisters of
the Good Shepherd to reform children who had had committed
crimes like murder, arson, sexual assault, as well as others,
(36:06):
Milk championed the facility, while White absolutely did not want it.
This led to a conflict between the two. While Dan
oppose Proposition six, he fought against initiatives supported by Milk,
such as an ordinance proposed to ban discrimination against the
(36:28):
LGBTQ community in employment and housing. On November tenth, nineteen
seventy eight, White would resign as supervisor, citing what she
called San Francisco's corrupt political practices, as well as his
difficulty earning a living without working as a policeman or
(36:53):
a firefighter, jobs he was prohibited from holding as a councilman.
His attempt to Owen a baked potato stand during this
time had ended in failure. He would reverse his resignation, however,
on November fourteenth, after his supporters lobbied him to do so.
(37:14):
Mayor Muscone was initially supportive of this maneuver, but after
speaking to Milk and others, Mustcone eventually declined this reversal,
and with this the stages set for the end of
our tail.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
And now a final word from our sponsors.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Remember that if you don't want to take all of
these breaks for sponsors, that you can sign up for
our Patreon at either the one level, one dollar or
the three dollars levels, and those give you a free
Patreon episodes.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yes, I am back again.
Speaker 11 (37:59):
And I feel sponsor.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yay, thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Everybody else feels sponsor.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
We feel sponsored.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
I also fight your ankles off ps ps for sponsors.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Even if you don't want sponsors, even if you're okay
with the sponsors, you can still get the three dollars
Patreon to hear me talk about how much I hate
Sharon Kenny. Sharon Kenny Kenny.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Maybe Dan White by the end of this episode. We
don't know right. On November twenty seventh, nineteen seventy eight,
White entered City Hall through a basement window to avoid
the metal detectors at the front. He then went in
search of his targets. He had four in all, Mayor Moscone,
(38:51):
Harvey Milk, Willie Brown, who would one day be the
mayor of San Francisco and Carol Ruth Silver. These were
the people he had felt had caught Moscone to decline
his reversal of resignation. He went first to Moscone's office.
He begged Moscone to reinstate him, and Moscone would not.
(39:11):
He shot him several times. He then reloaded the gun
and walked into Harvey Milk's office, shooting him five times,
the last two shots taken with the nose of the
revolver against Milk's head. He then fled and surrendered to
the authorities at the North Police station, where he had
(39:33):
once worked. He was tried for murder, but was given
two convictions for manslaughter instead. His lawyers claimed that he
had been eating nothing but junk food, leading to impaired
mental capacity and the inability to mentally premeditate the murders.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Okay, so you are telling me that this man got
off on a junk food.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Actually it was the first one's kind. It was called
twinkie defense. Well, lord, this would become known as the
twinkie defense and it would reappear in in legal history.
Uh White was sentenced to less than eight years for
the two murders and would serve five years of the
sentence before being released. He would eventually end his own life.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yokay. Then they said it was a tweaky defense because
the dude filled was gay. The dude he killed being gay,
so it was a twinkie defense.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Well yeah, but he was also living on I don't
care snack foods.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
I'll bear with you.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
I do not care. I want to say this. I'm
gonna say that's for the end.
Speaker 10 (40:43):
I'm oh oh, it was time to get back to
the show.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
Let's talk a little bit about Milk's legacy before we
talk about final thoughts.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
And some.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
So the end of our story, of course, is the
legacy that Harvey Milk left behind. On the day of
Milk's death, countless gay people came out all across the country,
including Harvey's nephew Stewart, at a pride march in Washington,
d C. The marchers chanted Harvey Milk Lives. Author Randy
(41:23):
Shits would write, which.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I could write anything else, but that's the guy's name
ships with two d's.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Please tell me that there are at least a half
a dozen people performing under that name. I'm Randy Chits.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Just what was that his actual day, or apparently because
if I would.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, that's totally unprofessional of me. Author
Randy Shits would write a byography of sorts called The
Mayor of Castro Street in nineteen eighty two, also fairly
good here. In nineteen eighty four, the documentary The Times
(42:14):
of Harvey Milk What by Robert Epstein would be released.
In two thousand and nine, Gus Van Sant would release
the film Milk, which earned eight separate Award nominations and
the star Sean Penn would win Best Actor and the screenwriter,
(42:35):
Dustin lance Black, would win an Oscar for the script.
There is a statue of Harvey Milk as you enter
San Francisco City Hall. Parks and schools have been named
after him, as have LGBTQ plus resource centers. Stuart Milk
accepted a Medal of Freedom on his uncle's behalf from
(42:58):
the Best President Barack Obama. There is even a Harvey
Milk Day on May twenty second in California. A military
ship was named after him, although Trump and Heggs HEGs
Get have had it renamed because they apparently stupidly think
(43:23):
that it's okay to do that to just rename everything
that you don't agree with, because that's how we do
things in the world.
Speaker 10 (43:32):
Anyway.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
So, uh, now that we've ended a political political show
with some comments on our feelings about the current status
of the political arena, let's.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
I don't didn't know how to do it without you.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
No, you can't.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
And that's just that's that's the world that we live
in today. And I will be Uh.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Was that.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Wasn't that Kathy Bates who played the we were talking
about the stand earlier. Kathy Bates played this, played the reporter,
the the radio reporter in the movie.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yes, Yes, in the movie.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
That they took out because she was telling the truth about.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
About what was going on in the world.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
Yes, and they killed her live on air.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
So anyway, now, Heckie.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Guess summary final thoughts And if I remember correctly, Arthur
starts this week.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Well, I mean, Arthur wasn't here last week, so did
I lie?
Speaker 4 (44:40):
I say go for it because last week we let
Brenda go first because Brenda, hold.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
On, hold on. So I'm just gonna put this here.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
You might just want to start beeping here and just Lexie,
put your fingers in your ears.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Your brother's about to lose son. Go ahead, what you
got to say. You don't need to shoot a gay
man in the head and get let off on him.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Twinkie defense, Go deal with that.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
It's funny. Who was just like, oh yeah, let's name
it the twinkie defense because all he's eating is fool
That's actually.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
What worked, Okay. The idea for the defense was probably
his defense attorney. Uh And as far as the twinkie defense,
the press named it that because the pipe nights, because
in the the defense's paperwork they said that he was
(45:42):
surviving on twinkies and other junk food. So hence it
became the twinkiees defense.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Great job for great job for Milk though, you know,
great job for Harvey.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
He did a lot of good use player.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Actually, yeah he did some.
Speaker 11 (46:00):
He did some more definitely morally gray, morally dark gray
things with some of the underage dating. Yeah, that's that's Leo.
God's trying to messed up Harvey.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
It wasn't illegal.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
My mother's father would have killed her for dating a
thirty year old man at sixteen, So him dating a
sixteen year old man at thirty was I get that
it was appropriate back then, but my mother was a
girl in the fifties, and that would not have phown
(46:42):
even even with it being it just it was still.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Not I am not defending it absolutely, but I am
get that. But it was what I'm saying that gay men,
especially young gay men, would often seek old or lover.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
I mean, I know, I know how long I waited
to be with anyone as an overweight teenage girl if
I had not socially accepted sexual preference, same thing, and
definitely it would make it harder to find someone who
I felt comfortable with. And so I absolutely can see
(47:24):
the issues.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
So it was a common thing at the time. That
does not make it right.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
But that's not cool.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
When we're talking about cultural issues. I think it's only
fair we look at them through the lens of the
time that they had. And so looking at that lens,
young gay men didn't really there wasn't anybody in school
(47:56):
that was going to help them out. They so what
they had was older men and that sort of turned
into a thing for a while, the original Bears and Cubs,
it was called that because the Cubs weren't quite done
growing Again, doesn't make it right. But and Harvey is
(48:17):
one of those gay men that as he got older
dated younger men. But I agree he should have passed on.
He should have passed on.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
I'm listening.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
He should have passed on the sixteen year old for
a lot more reasons other than him being sixteen. Absolutely,
the kid wasn't altogether there.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
Yeah, he had had some definite mental was not people
didn't even talk about self harming and those kinds of things.
That wasn't I've said for years, and this was I
was in school in the from the late eighties to
(48:59):
the early nine These and the things that happen nowadays
in school that our children are at least they're aware
of that. They try to put things in place anti bullying,
rules and requirements, and sensitivity and empathy training and all
(49:21):
of those things that we talk about now, those were
not things when we were kids, you know. So knowing
that knowing how to help someone that is threatening self
harm was not something that we got when we were
in school, you know that. And so even ten and
(49:44):
twenty years before, even ten and twenty years before that
definitely wasn't something that they were getting information on that
they would really know how to deal with.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Even in your thirties or forties, right, what.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Showing there were showing her it.
Speaker 4 (50:01):
Was avocado ranch, so that I wouldn't eat it if
if I didn't want to try it.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
At least it's not Caesar dressing. Caesar dressing is made
with anchobies, and anchobies are who I.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Never knew that.
Speaker 4 (50:20):
I've probably had Caesar dressing with anchovies and it. Then
I didn't know that they put that in Caesar dress.
I've had caesar selados.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Anthobies aren't those like the fish fish?
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Yeah? Blend them up?
Speaker 2 (50:37):
No, No, okay, if I ever wanted to try thee
So do you feel better it most of it out.
It's a stereotical and typical white.
Speaker 4 (50:51):
Male, well especially at that time.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
But yeah, look when you're equating a way. To me,
it's funny that he equated pot smokers to homosexuals to cynics,
because to me, they're all the same level of problem,
not really very much alone, you know, And if that's
your biggest worry, then I really I don't see what
(51:18):
your platform is. And and at that time loves him Dad.
At that time he was like, I'm all about defense
of the status quo, and Moscone was a straight man.
Moscone got killed because Moscone was friends with Milt though so.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
Or at least as far as to get his way,
and so he was angry about that.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
No, he wasn't angry. Remember, according to his defense attorney,
he had he's just nourished.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Yeah, he'd had too much sugar.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Heed. Yeah, and he just couldn't find my asps.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Oh, can I help you? It's okay.
Speaker 4 (52:13):
He knows where that button.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
Is, Arthur. You can look if you feel about something
and you need to get I don't mind you expressing it.
We are a preg thirteen podcast. It just means I'll
beep you and I'll probably beat you a couple extra
places because I think it's funny to beep you that much.
But that's okay. People will will will become three dollars
(52:35):
Patreon members and go wait, you didn't need to beep
him there, and I'll go have anyway few evil laughter.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Yes, it's because some of the words that I use
are quite Oh are you upset that I'm holding my son.
Speaker 12 (52:59):
So so like I betrayed you. He smells chicken, that's
why he's up here. Oh he smells chicken and bacon.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Yeah, No, he's it was here before the chicken.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
All right, Well, but I just I never knew Milk's
whole story, and I never knew like that he he
in addition to all the things he did and tried
to do for the LGBTQ, but like setting up daycare
(53:41):
for working mothers, converting military facilities into low cost housing,
things that helped everyone. And that's why I titled the episode.
And you know my titles, they never last from when
I come up with the episode two when I release it.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
But well, never don't remember because I think a couple
of weeks ago you actually kept one.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Once in a while, once in a great while, I will.
But in this case that it's it's called Harvey Milk,
the hero all of us deserve. Yeah, because I feel
like this is who we need politically right now. We
need a guy like this, a guy who's not just
looking out for himself, a guy who's not just looking
(54:31):
out for his own community, but who's.
Speaker 4 (54:36):
I wanted to come in with my final thoughts because
I agree with you it wasn't even necessarily that he
was that great of a man, because a lot of
the things that he's known for were things that directly
affected him. He didn't just stop at that right, You
(54:57):
didn't just say this is for me and people like me.
He also said, what about those single moms, What about
these people who need a second chance? What about protecting
people so they can be healthy and they can have
jobs and they can have community in those things.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
So what about taking care of my neighborhood with more
places to learn and better community policing. And this is
from a guy that you know, was offhandedly included by
Dan White as part of his cynics homosexuals and pot
(55:35):
smokers against you know, American family values or whatever, which
to me is just such a joke anyway. Yeah, yeah,
so but that's my final thought. Anything else. I mean,
I'm very glad we did this episode between this and
Alice P. Toklas, and there is a connection because when
(56:00):
Harvey came to the area he joined, there was a
group called the Alice B. Toplis Democratic LGBTQ Plug and
it may still be there, but they were basically the
king makers, like if you wanted to run for a seat,
you had to go through them. And by the time
(56:22):
Harvey was running in the seventies, he bucked that system.
He did it all on his own without their help
because they didn't want to help him because they when
he initially ran and talked to them about it, one
of the guys running it was like, well, when I
was a kid, we used to have a saying about elections.
(56:43):
You don't get to dance unless you put up the chairs.
And I ain't seen you putting up any chairs.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
Oh well, okay.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
And I think, because that seems to be a very
old phrase, what that means is back in the days
at school dances, it was like the gym or whatever,
and so somebody would have to come in, move the tables,
put up the chairs. And I think it's referring to that,
like if you want to be you want to dance,
(57:13):
you got to come early and help us set up.
And okay, I see your point, But you also had
to see his value. Clearly, he was a popular person,
and he was someone who as outgoing as he was
and out as outspoken as he was. I mean, we're
(57:35):
talking about a man who, when you know, a corporate
company said you can't work here with long hair, he
turned around and said, well, I guess I don't work here,
and quick, Yeah, that's that's standing up for yourself. That's
loudly standing up so and so. I mean, had I
(57:58):
been that guy, I would have absolutely absolutely went, you
want to be part, you want to run, Okay, you
can run, but we're gonna need your help. I would
have made an ally, not an enemy. It scared me
and so I smacked it gotcha. Probably Jeff gold was out.
Speaker 4 (58:19):
In the air conditioning, so it was all like slow
and happy.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
So probably Jeff Goldlun. Jeff Goldmun was in a movie
called The Fly. I know it happened in the eighties.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
No I was. I wasn't looking at you like that.
I was because of that. I was looking at you
like that because Fly was Chris, because I looked out
at like a weirdo.
Speaker 4 (58:45):
That's my main final thought that, you know, he could
have just stopped it at doing something for himself, at
doing something for his business, at doing something that would
reflect into his life.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
But he didn't stop it.
Speaker 4 (58:58):
That he wanted to do things for community, he wanted
to do things for the world. He wanted to make
a difference for the next generation and all the generations
to come.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
So and and he kept don't doing it, knowing his
life was on the line. Like the ending that happened,
he knew could happen, maybe not how or who, because
if he knew it was Dan White, I think he
would have spent more time avoiding the man or something.
But he knew it was a possibility, and he wanted
(59:33):
his death to echo across the country with every gay
person coming out of the closet and saying I'm gay.
Two and we won't take this anymore.
Speaker 2 (59:43):
Yeah, basically a part two of and I don't mean
to get to political career, but like basically a part
two of what is happening currently. It's like, you have
to you have to come out and show that you're
still alive. You're still trying to show that you exist,
(01:00:03):
and you won't let the political system system take you down,
because that is exactly what they're trying to do. Like
they said, they like they take off the they take
off nine eight eight, and they're just like you, Now
you can't call anymore. So now see what you can
do because we're not gonna have this available for.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
You because it costs money. And he thinks that I'm
not gonna name names. I'm not gonna name call, but
I'm going to say that this administration seems determined to
give benefits to billionaires at the cost of the rest
of us, right, and I will leave.
Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
Why why would they be any different when they're run
by the.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Billionaire because none of them are Harvey Milk. Yep. And
the thing is is, is Harvey Milker help me as president.
Harvey Milk has you're not old enough. You need to
be at least thirty five. I was, well, they at
(01:01:14):
some point, Arthur, to be serious.
Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
We don't have to be serious.
Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
I would love for you to go into law and
into politics. I would love to see a world where
Arthur had some water saying it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
But the thing is is Harvey could have stood up
just for the LGBTQ. But Harvey had already like Harvey
had questions, hard questions like why am I loaning the
school camera equipment when they're supposed to have it provided?
(01:01:53):
And he addressed that why are there homeless people on
the streets of Castro? Why don't we have we have
all these buildings.
Speaker 4 (01:02:01):
So, Arthur, in nineteen years, I will be the first
person to sign up to vote for you as because
of the United States that still is one at that time.
And of course I'm still here provided.
Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
You're just You're still gonna be drums, geneers.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
And that's I mean, thanks Harvy Milk. I guess that's
that's what I'm gonna end.
Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
I guess that was our final thoughts. That was a
long conversation. We needed a cut version and an uncut version.
In my opinion, that's our show. That's our show.
Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Yeah, So thanks for listening, Thanks for keeping us in
the good Podstop one hundred. Thanks to Laura, Arthur Blue
and Lexi uh and the rest of the fan love
you all. Thanks to h Bill Heyge Aaron. Bill is
(01:03:02):
Bill barrn b E h R E N d T
who does our theme music. Thank you Bill. If you
need music for a project or someone to perform an event,
He's your guy. Bill Barron at SBC global dot Net.
Page is Page Olmore of the Reverie Crime podcast, who
combines her at Canva Addiction with our own Arthur's artwork
to create logo art for us. Thank you, Page, Thank you.
(01:03:23):
And Aaron is Aaron gunnerk of The Big Dumb Fun Show,
who continues to promote us locally. Join us again next
week as we take tackle bookstores to resistance centers or
as resistance center. Sorry with the owner of the Austin,
Texas Book Burrow, Kelsey Black, I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (01:03:44):
Bye,
I'm Dean, I'm the dad.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm Laura, I'm the mom, and I'm Arthur, I'm the son,
and together we are family.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Claw it'll be nice. Let's get the housekeeping out of
the just as fast as I'm able. We will start
with Tea Spring. If you want merchandise like oh Hoodies,
shirts and mugs, all featuring Arthur's own original artwork, Tea
Spring is the way to go. If you cannot afford
(01:18):
to buy merch which is fairly expensive, we get that,
you can always join our Patreon, which only has two levels,
one dollar and three dollars a month. Each level gets
you add free versions of the show, and the three
dollar level gets very special extra versions of the show
featuring things like Arthur's profanity laden rant against Sharon Kinney
(01:42):
Special all the Time. And if you cannot afford to
do a monthly donation, which again we don't judge, you
can just send us a dollar or two as a
one time donation through buy Me a Coffee. And if
you can't afford that, well, there is still some things
you can do for us. If you enjoy the show,
(02:03):
drop us a five star review and share the show
on social media.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Share it with friends, share it with family, with everyone,
and if you don't enjoy the show, please keep it
to yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
If you can't say something nice.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Don't say anything at all. So what are we talking
about today?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Well, today we go back to the seventies to meet
a man who was dubbed the Mayor of Castro Street.
Harvey Milk came up in New York City, where he
acknowledged his homosexuality and after World War Two, wrote about
changes in American life before moving to Castro Street in
San Francisco, where he became a political firebrand. In this
(02:49):
Pride Month historical and special episode of the Family Plot podcast,
and yet.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Again, another exciting story about another amazing individual born in
the month of May.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Sure, okay, so, yes, you are right. This is another
episode featuring a fabulous person that was born in May,
not May twenty seventh or May ninth, though Harvey was
born on May twenty second in nineteen thirty in Woodmere,
New York. Woodmere is close to Queens and Brooklyn and
(03:26):
is part of the Five Boroughs area of New York City.
He was born to William and Minerva and had an
older brother named Robert. William and Minerva had both served
in the US Navy and were Jewish people of Lithuanian descent.
They were part of the New York community called Litvas
(03:46):
and helped to found a synagogue. Harvey and Robert both
attended Bayshore High School. By the time Harvey attended Bay Shore,
he knew he was gay. He also had a wide
range of interests, including photography, writing for the newspaper, opera,
and playing football, among many others. While writing for the paper,
(04:09):
he wrote on several topics that today would be called
examinations of diversity. While in high school, Harvey and Robert
both worked in William's furniture store, which was called simply Milk's.
In fact, our picture comes that we have today, I
believe is a picture of Harvey in front of this sign,
(04:30):
because I believe it says milk.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Shall we take a trip over to your corner?
Speaker 5 (04:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Here, ye, here ye, allow me to present Arthur's corner. Hi, everyone,
how are we doing today?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Faboo? Pray faboo. See well last night but Trey out
of sight.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I'm glad that you're with us this week.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
We missed you last week, Yes, we missed you very much.
And Brenda missed you very much.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Yes, Brenda was sad that our Arthur wasn't here because.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
She able to hear me. I'm getting very upset. Does
she not have our patreoon?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I don't know that she. If she does, I don't
think she does. But no, she didn't. But she does
like that you get that you're a fire brain, that
you have things you care about, and it comes out
she likes that.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
She's a fan of our Arthur's.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, big fan, just like I'm a fan of.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Hers and yours. Obviously, I'm always a fan of my Arthur.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So what's going on in Arthur's corner? Today?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
We went swimming? We went swimming. Yeah, we went swimming.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
And you've been working hard and I've been working like
a fiend.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
My first prey paycheck is gonna be pretty good. I
know that it's gonna be crime.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Then your new favorite cryptid the squonk Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
The squawk, Oh my god. Okay, okay, So guys, I
wasn't here last week. If you could tell, you probably
couldn't because Dad's editing is so well done.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
I'm looking you being fleet tay.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I I wasn't here last week, so I couldn't talk
about the beautiful, stunning squonk that dad told me about.
Was it on Father's Day? It was on Father's Day?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, it was on Father's Day.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
The dad told us about on Father's Day. I love
the squonk. I want a pet squank. I'm gonna scoop
up all the water. I'm gonna scoop up all of
the water, and I'm gonna bring it home with me.
And and I thought, yep, yep, yep, in a bucket
a squawk tears, and then I'll just let it sit
in a room and then it can come to me
when he wants something, and it'll be great. It's it's
(07:07):
it's fine.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
You have a hole, you have a you have a
squank plan.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I got a squonk plan. If I see a squank,
watch out for me, squank. I'm coming to get you.
Gonna put it.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Put it in a little in a little bowl, a
little dish, a little dish. Put a little sign post
it note says pet squank.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Pet squawk.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Just don't corner it or else it'll turn into a
into water.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I won't corner it. He can come to me. So cute.
I love squonks. They're so cute.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
They're they're very kind of cute ugly.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
They're they're the type of ugly that's super cute, like
like pugs.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, or hairless things.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, I love hairless things.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Oh my, the Smallest commercial with Bruce Wayne the cat.
I'm in love with Bruce Wayne the cat from the
Smallest Commercial.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
And I can't stand it's the best. I can't stand
that cat, mostly because I can't stand the person that
owns it. You're mean, Yeah, well she's horrible, so what
see you? Because she has no rationalization for who she
is other than the way she feels, and I feel
(08:32):
like that's wrong. The Hecker you.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Talk to you.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
The way? What else is going on? Arthur?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
My brain is going in three separate ways emotional uppeople
right now, stuff going stuff down?
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Yeah, stuff going down in Arthur's background. You want to
catch corner short and we can go to the next
section since you're having emotional issues.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Straw, Straw, I got sushi. You got sushi, and you're welcome.
Had sushi in so long and my mom that neat
SUCHI your mom.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Let's be clear, it's it's it's sushi and it'll be
decent because it comes from high v but it's grocery
store sushi, which is in as high quality ask Astroni sushi.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And if I could have more sushi, I would, but
I don't have my paycheck yet. And when I get
my paycheck, you best believe I'm gonna go out and
get sushi.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Just keep in mind that you've got some money coming
back to me for all the stuff I shelled up.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, I know, like them forty dollars shoes or whatever.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Okay, I'm getting reimbursed for that. That's what I'm saying.
I'm given. I'm giving her the twenty dollars because that's
all they give you. They give you twenty dollars. Pretty
girls better than nothing. I gotta give that to Desiree,
who's desire to her. I showed it to uh Diana,
(10:13):
but she said that I needed to give it to Desireel.
And haven't given it to desire yet because every time
I see Desiree, I need to talk to her about
something more important. I see, well, not more important, but
you're good. I get it. Guys. I feel like an adult.
This isn't okay.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
Arthur is an adultier adult, Nuther, You're behaving more adult
than some members of our family who are technically older
and more adult than.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I'm proud of you. Yes, and I want to make
that very clear. I'm very proud of you. You've done
a good job. Like if I had been your boss,
I would be like smiling ear to ear. You're there early,
you stay late. You worry about silly things like your
coworkers being mad at you for leaving when you're supposed to.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
They were met because I asked to leave eleven minutes
after my shop. I was so scared. I was like, hey,
can I get off now? And he's just like, I
thought you were here until seven. I'm like, I'm not
here until seven today. No, not today, sir. I'm only
here till four today, not not not seven. I would
(11:31):
love to stay here until seven if I'm gonna get
you know, more moolah. But uh, if that's unpaid work, dude, sorry,
it gets a lot of work with for work unpaid.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, like they can get in trouble just for you'd
forgetting to clock in if the right people shows up.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Oh no, they always have a manager there. Always, there's
always at least one manager there.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
That's good. That that's quality way to run a business.
Always have somebody who knows what they're doing on on staff.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I'm so sad because dad came or not dad, mom
came through my drive through doing.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Trying to find my other house.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Shoot, it's like under your there you go.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Oh okay, but but I'm bump, but I'm bump bump, bump,
bump bum.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I know how to answer customers customers. I know how
to do drive through and answer customers. And it's funny
because people will come through not notice it's.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Me, and they'll say stuff, no, they like, tell me.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Their order, and then they'll come through and they'll just
be like because I have a different, different voice from
customer service boys.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Everybody does, and everybody's heard about the bird. Bird bird bird,
bird is the word. So are you ready to take
the next section?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It was time to get back to the show already.
After graduating high school, where Harvey was quite popular, he
attended the New York State College for Teachers these days
were renamed State University of New York. There, he focused
on history, served on the school paper. Yes he served,
(13:48):
We joined a fraternity, and got a degree in mathematics.
He graduated in nineteen fifty one. From there, he followed
his in his parents' footsteps and joined the Navy during
the Korean Conflict. He did basic training at the now
Naval Naval Station YEP Naval Station of the Great Lakes
(14:11):
in Illinois, before being assigned to the Submarine Slash Rescue
Ship USS Kilwaukee Kia. Believe okay, kid awake, I think
it's Kilwaukee.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Didn't say Kilwaukee. I just thought it was kid awake.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I don't know, might be kidwaick uh, where he served
as a diving officer. From there, he went to the
Tow Officer Candidate School in Newport, Rhode Island. After that,
he was stationed in Naval Island Naval Station the San
(14:52):
Diego where he's.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Naa no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I shouldn't do it again, where he's served as a
diving instructor. Somewhere after this, he resigned from the Navy
the name the Navy gave less than gave him less
than no honorable bit discharge because it had to come
out that he was a homosexual. Oh man, what the heck?
(15:19):
He returned home at to Long Island, where he began
to teach at local high school and pursued a man
named Campbell. They started a relationship and moved to Texas
so that they didn't have to live through such hard winters.
Harvey wrote Campbell poems and love letters, not like al
(15:41):
liking the local scene in Texas. Oooh no, no, no, no, no,
homosexuals like Taxis Texas.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Dude, it's probably worse than nineteen fifties.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
No, probably way worse than nineteen fifties. I'm not debating that.
They returned to New York. After six years together, the
couple broke up and went their separate ways. He considered
a lavender marriage, specifically a marriage between a gay man
and a straight woman, a straight man and a gay woman,
(16:11):
or a gay man and a gay woman to give
each other a front and allow them to quietly continue
to pursue their sexuality in an unobtrusive way. Boy, do
I know what lavender marriage means. He chose to stay
in New York when he met Craig Rodwell. Craig was
(16:32):
in his twenties. Milk was just over thirty at this time,
but Craig was a mender of the.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I'm sorry member, I probably miss member.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Of the Mattashine Madachine. I believe Matachine Madachine Society the
Matachine decided Society was a society devoted to gay rights,
and Craig would have would often have conflicts with the police.
We discussed amount of Time Society Madachine Society briefly in
(17:08):
episode one and fifty eight about a stone Front uprising.
Check it out. We'll wait. Wink because that's I added
that one in That was me. Y'all couldn't see it,
but I winked.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Here, come right back, take your time.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Take your time, just pause this one. Go go listen
to the other one day. That was almost one hundred
episodes ago. I know, right, feeling fancy, feeling fancy, guys.
One such conflict had rod while walking through Risp Rise Park.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, I think it's Rise with two eyes.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Okay, Okay, I think so, because I'm not gonna call
it riz Park absolutely not a hangout for game minute time.
He was wearing a brief style swimming suit. However, laws
as a time said men's swimsuits should extend from above
the navel down to the mid thigh. Rodwell was arrested
(18:14):
for indecent exposure and inciting a riot that and spent
three days in jail. Jill was like, really bad that
back then, right.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
It was, but not as bad as it has been
in this country.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Fair enough, Stunts like this spelled doom for their relationship,
and the couple broke up. No, bro, let Harvey have
a good relationship. I mean he did for five years,
but come on, Harvey would stay in New York for
a while longer, secretly pursuing relationships with gay men.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Righty, So, now that we've got a little history with
mister Milk, let's take a few more moments and hear
from some of our fellow content creators.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Dave Liam it's a trailer.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Watch you if you can podcast.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Join us for each episode as we create box sets
of our favorite films and TV shows.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
We go through the cast to see what else they've
been in. Along with any recommendations, we pick.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Our favorite characters, performances, moments, and highlights from the sound.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Trying to we ask if there's anything to make it better.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I'll love at the lasting legacy of our pick. We
have a little fun with our quick five round, and finally,
what else would you like?
Speaker 4 (19:36):
List?
Speaker 7 (19:36):
Based on themes from the episode?
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Maybe just maybe you should watch it if you can?
Speaker 1 (19:48):
What if you've already seen it?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Well you can watch it again if you.
Speaker 8 (19:51):
Can any of this. Uiko a LATINX horror movie podcast
with Johnny.
Speaker 9 (20:04):
And Eileen I Guess the Espelus podcast. We explore the
often overlooked world of LATINX horror films. Gotta Am I Not.
We watch and discuss horror films from different countries in
Latin America.
Speaker 8 (20:17):
Or with a LATINX director or starring a LATINX lead.
See is the Latinki's We're watching it now?
Speaker 9 (20:23):
Was episode those every Monday.
Speaker 8 (20:25):
Listen to on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Okay, horror, I can't even say it how they say it.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
If I could understand Spanish, I would enjoy that show.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Definitely would listen to it.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Unfortunately, I am.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Very single lingual.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I know just a little Spanish because like several of
my kids have learned it and I picked it.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
I am bilingual. I speak with Taipanese, which is the
type of language I see.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Which I speak fluently.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I could read in Taipanese.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Also, Yeah, very nice, very nice.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I tell people that frequently when I'm training. Hey, so story, yay,
Sorry back to our story. For a while, Harvey would
go from job to job and career to career. He
was an insurance arctuary for a while, and then he
would switch to a researcher with the Wall Street firm
(21:36):
Bosh and Company. He did well there and was frequently promoted,
but he also rubbed his superiors the wrong way by
not taking their advice and flaunt flaunting his success. While
he was good at what he did, those around him
said his heart wasn't in it, which I imagine makes
(21:59):
sense because it would be kind of hard to throw
your heart into something when you're having to live a
locking most of the time. By pretending to be not
who you are, right right, Harvey would become involved with
a sixteen year old around this time. That's not super sectible.
(22:24):
It was it was more acceptable at the time. We
should stress that stress an understanding that this was not
illegal in late.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Fifties and early sixties.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
The sixteen year old's name was Jack Gallan McKinley. Milk
had recruited him to work on the campaign of conservative
presidential candidate Barry Goldwater. McKinley would often threaten to self
harm if Milk didn't pay.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Him enough attention.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
So not was he young and impressionable. It also sounds
like he might have had some emotional and mental issues.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Ooh yeah, trigger one.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, definitely should Yeah because selfarmism.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, self farm is pretty pretty triggering.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Topic went okay when I was when I was mid eighties,
heading into the nineties, it was still kind of acceptable
and there was still quite a few gay men who'd
like dating very much younger men. Now, when I say younger,
sixteen was about the limit, but it was fairly currently.
Speaker 7 (23:38):
Pretty is pretty young, no offense, but sixteen is sixteen,
you guys, pretty young for he's over thirty and he's
dating a sixteen years No, you guys, literally, I do
you guys?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Literally?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
A just called me one of the most mature sixteen
year olds you guys know. Yeah, And then b I
don't want to be in a relationship with a thirty
year old man.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
So I'm not people and immoral. I'm just throwing that
bag in there anyway. Him So McKinley already worked for
theater entrepreneur turned Broadway Impressed Crro Impressario Impressario. Tom O'Horgan
(24:26):
Milk would join the theater company as a general aide.
The cask, prized almost entirely of flower children would wear
away much of Harvey's conservative demeanor. He grew his fair out,
wore bill bottoms and beads, and became something of a
(24:47):
hippie himself. Those who knew him around this time said
that while he seemed to have no plan for his life,
he was happier than he had ever been. In fact,
while working at an investment firm in San Francisco, he
was told to cut his long hair. He refused and
(25:10):
then was fired. Harvey stayed in.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
San Francisco, but.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
McKinley went on to the traveling company of Jesus Christ Superstar. Yes,
that's very first musical theater live experience, and it was
so good. Harvey himself would settle in the Castro District.
(25:41):
He worked a string of odd jobs and eventually met
Scott Smith.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Tommy was Scott Smith.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Once a man who was eighteen years his junior, still
dating the younger boys. Harvey was around forty at this time,
and he started another relationship. They returned to New York
in nineteen seventy one for the Christopher Street Day celebration
(26:11):
of the Stone Wall Uprising Still episode if you want
to know more. If you didn't leave and listen last time,
this is your last chance. Afterwards, they returned to San Francisco,
where they left some photos to be developed. Those photos
(26:32):
were ruined, prompting the couple to spend the last of
their savings opening at Cambride's Stormer Store on Castro Street,
a popular area with gays.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Gays, I think that's it's more politically correct to say
LGBTQ plus these days.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
But yeah, well that's homosexuals.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Homosexuals. Yeah, okay, let's take a moment for a word
from our sponsors.
Speaker 10 (27:14):
Hello, well, I feel spond to thank you. Everybody. Have
a good day and have fun listening to this show.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Fight Bye bye, borster face, You're messy.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Around this time, politics were changing, but there was a subtle,
but not so quiet fight going on. Police were targeting
area parks where they were arresting many gay men for
public sex in an effort to drive the problem underground. However,
(27:50):
the gay community was organizing and fighting back, attracting powerful
people within the city who saw the power the group represented,
who courted them and fought for their interests. Meanwhile, Harvey
himself was having more and more concerns that required a
political fix, from his anger at conservatives over the events
(28:13):
of Watergate to his response to certain state initiatives, to
his loaning local schools camera equipment because what they had
didn't work. He saw all of this in the lens
of something he could fight and perhaps fix. He was
theatrical and outspoken, and that made him a popular figure
(28:34):
in the Castro Street community and its growing LGBTQ plus contingent.
He ran for the Board of Supervisors, and while he
didn't win, he came to the attention of the local
political scene. When a group of businessmen tried to prevent
two gay men from opening a store on Castro Street,
(28:54):
Milk organized the Castro Village Association, a first of its
kind association of mostly gay merchants. Working together with Milk's personality,
he was made president. He organized the Castro Street Fair
in nineteen seventy four. The Castro Street Fair was a
street festival featuring merchants, artists, and others celebrating the diversity
(29:19):
of the area. It is a festival that is held
on the first Sunday of October to this day. In
nineteen seventy five, Milk ran again for the San Francis
Cisco City Council and narrowly lost His longtime friend, Mayor
George jay Or. Mayor George Moscone appointed him to the
(29:43):
Board of Permit Appeals, making him the first openly gay
commissioner in the United States. Milk was beginning to get noticed. Later,
he ran for an open Assembly seat that lost that bit,
Milk realized that he needed to rely on voters in
the Castro who knew and supported him. To that end,
(30:06):
he and George Moscone began to campaign to change at
large elections for city council seats to district elections, so
only the people within the affected district voted for those candidates.
With these new election laws in place, he ran again
for the open seat and this time won easily. He
(30:27):
became an openly gay city councilman, and his win made
national and international news. As a city councilman, Harley focused
on the needs of his district, not just the LGBTQ
areas of his district. As a city councilman, he helped
create daycare centers for working mothers, helped with the conversion
(30:48):
of abandoned military facilities into low cost housing. He helped
make changes to the tax code, attracting businesses to abandoned
warehouses and factories. He also championed into LGBTQ rights, sponsoring
anti sponsoring an anti discrimination bill, advocated for safe neighborhoods,
called for the city to increase things like library services
(31:12):
and community policing in the Castro district, and spoke out
for marginalized communities, not just the LGBTQ. When State Senator
John Briggs attempted to marshall hate to create Proposition six,
a statewide ban on gay's working in public schools, a
bill that would also have gotten a school employee fired
(31:34):
for talking positively about Kay's Milk and others. Rallied against it,
and the proposition failed at a time when anti day
day discrimination in other parts of the country were succeeding.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And now another moment for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Hello, Hello, I'm back again.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
You feeling sponsored?
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yeah, now after we get back to the show.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, get back to the show.
Speaker 10 (32:14):
Everybody, the good boys.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Or girls or.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
People. Everyone be good.
Speaker 10 (32:22):
Everybody be good and also have a great day, have
a great day, because you guys are my pookies.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Pookies all.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Thank you well.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Harvey milk in his own words. In one speech, Harvey said,
and Dad thinks this is important. We are coming out
to fight the lies, the myths, the distortions. We are
coming out to tell the truth about gays. For I
am tired of the conspiracy of silence. So I'm going
(32:56):
to talk about it, and I want you to talk
about it. You must come out. He was aware that
as an openly gay man serving on the city council
he faced the specter of assassination. He never let that
stop him. He once famously said, if a bullet enters
(33:19):
my brain, let the bullet destroy every closet door. Those
words would be prophetic, prophetic. Okay, And you know what,
I appreciate that you had the gay one reading that.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
That was great.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I actually really appreciate that one.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Well, you know what he means by saying, let it
destroy every closet door, right.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Everything that ever hit him, everything that ever hid him.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
This gays were referred to as being in the closet
if they weren't out. He was saying, if he dies,
let everybody come out. Just everybody come out at once.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Oh makes sense.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Then now we're going to talk about Dan White. Dan
is going to be the villain of the piece, so
it's best we take a moment to get to know
our villain. Dan was born on September second, Not that
we really wanted him in our birthday month, but okay,
nineteen forty six. He was a Catholic born and raised
(34:21):
in the Visitation Valley section of San Francisco. He served
in the Army during the Vietnam War. Upon returning to
San Francisco, he served as a police officer for a
year before resigning after reporting another officer for beating a subject.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
While in handcuffs.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Then he joined the San Francisco Fire Department and served
there with distinction. He was seen as the all American boy.
He was elected to the city Council in nineteen seventy seven,
good year, the same year that Harvey Milk was and
initially they got along. However, he represented a mostly white,
(35:10):
middle class section of San Francisco who resented the growing
district of Pastrow and the homosexual community.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Oh good.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
He saw himself, according to a New York Times piece,
as the defender of the home, the family, and routent
and religious life against homosexuals, hotsmokers, and cynics. Well, Archie
just fabulous, aren't you the Despite this, initially, Milk and
(35:45):
White silk governor. However, when the Catholic Church suggested opening
a facility in White's district run by the Sisters of
the Good Shepherd to reform children who had had committed
crimes like murder, arson, sexual assault, as well as others,
(36:06):
Milk championed the facility, while White absolutely did not want it.
This led to a conflict between the two. While Dan
oppose Proposition six, he fought against initiatives supported by Milk,
such as an ordinance proposed to ban discrimination against the
(36:28):
LGBTQ community in employment and housing. On November tenth, nineteen
seventy eight, White would resign as supervisor, citing what she
called San Francisco's corrupt political practices, as well as his
difficulty earning a living without working as a policeman or
(36:53):
a firefighter, jobs he was prohibited from holding as a councilman.
His attempt to Owen a baked potato stand during this
time had ended in failure. He would reverse his resignation, however,
on November fourteenth, after his supporters lobbied him to do so.
(37:14):
Mayor Muscone was initially supportive of this maneuver, but after
speaking to Milk and others, Mustcone eventually declined this reversal,
and with this the stages set for the end of
our tail.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
And now a final word from our sponsors.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Remember that if you don't want to take all of
these breaks for sponsors, that you can sign up for
our Patreon at either the one level, one dollar or
the three dollars levels, and those give you a free
Patreon episodes.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yes, I am back again.
Speaker 11 (37:59):
And I feel sponsor.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yay, thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Everybody else feels sponsor.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
We feel sponsored.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
I also fight your ankles off ps ps for sponsors.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Even if you don't want sponsors, even if you're okay
with the sponsors, you can still get the three dollars
Patreon to hear me talk about how much I hate
Sharon Kenny. Sharon Kenny Kenny.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Maybe Dan White by the end of this episode. We
don't know right. On November twenty seventh, nineteen seventy eight,
White entered City Hall through a basement window to avoid
the metal detectors at the front. He then went in
search of his targets. He had four in all, Mayor Moscone,
(38:51):
Harvey Milk, Willie Brown, who would one day be the
mayor of San Francisco and Carol Ruth Silver. These were
the people he had felt had caught Moscone to decline
his reversal of resignation. He went first to Moscone's office.
He begged Moscone to reinstate him, and Moscone would not.
(39:11):
He shot him several times. He then reloaded the gun
and walked into Harvey Milk's office, shooting him five times,
the last two shots taken with the nose of the
revolver against Milk's head. He then fled and surrendered to
the authorities at the North Police station, where he had
(39:33):
once worked. He was tried for murder, but was given
two convictions for manslaughter instead. His lawyers claimed that he
had been eating nothing but junk food, leading to impaired
mental capacity and the inability to mentally premeditate the murders.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Okay, so you are telling me that this man got
off on a junk food.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Actually it was the first one's kind. It was called
twinkie defense. Well, lord, this would become known as the
twinkie defense and it would reappear in in legal history.
Uh White was sentenced to less than eight years for
the two murders and would serve five years of the
sentence before being released. He would eventually end his own life.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yokay. Then they said it was a tweaky defense because
the dude filled was gay. The dude he killed being gay,
so it was a twinkie defense.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Well yeah, but he was also living on I don't
care snack foods.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
I'll bear with you.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
I do not care. I want to say this. I'm
gonna say that's for the end.
Speaker 10 (40:43):
I'm oh oh, it was time to get back to
the show.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
Let's talk a little bit about Milk's legacy before we
talk about final thoughts.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
And some.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
So the end of our story, of course, is the
legacy that Harvey Milk left behind. On the day of
Milk's death, countless gay people came out all across the country,
including Harvey's nephew Stewart, at a pride march in Washington,
d C. The marchers chanted Harvey Milk Lives. Author Randy
(41:23):
Shits would write, which.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I could write anything else, but that's the guy's name
ships with two d's.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Please tell me that there are at least a half
a dozen people performing under that name. I'm Randy Chits.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Just what was that his actual day, or apparently because
if I would.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, that's totally unprofessional of me. Author
Randy Shits would write a byography of sorts called The
Mayor of Castro Street in nineteen eighty two, also fairly
good here. In nineteen eighty four, the documentary The Times
(42:14):
of Harvey Milk What by Robert Epstein would be released.
In two thousand and nine, Gus Van Sant would release
the film Milk, which earned eight separate Award nominations and
the star Sean Penn would win Best Actor and the screenwriter,
(42:35):
Dustin lance Black, would win an Oscar for the script.
There is a statue of Harvey Milk as you enter
San Francisco City Hall. Parks and schools have been named
after him, as have LGBTQ plus resource centers. Stuart Milk
accepted a Medal of Freedom on his uncle's behalf from
(42:58):
the Best President Barack Obama. There is even a Harvey
Milk Day on May twenty second in California. A military
ship was named after him, although Trump and Heggs HEGs
Get have had it renamed because they apparently stupidly think
(43:23):
that it's okay to do that to just rename everything
that you don't agree with, because that's how we do
things in the world.
Speaker 10 (43:32):
Anyway.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
So, uh, now that we've ended a political political show
with some comments on our feelings about the current status
of the political arena, let's.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
I don't didn't know how to do it without you.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
No, you can't.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
And that's just that's that's the world that we live
in today. And I will be Uh.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Was that.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Wasn't that Kathy Bates who played the we were talking
about the stand earlier. Kathy Bates played this, played the reporter,
the the radio reporter in the movie.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yes, Yes, in the movie.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
That they took out because she was telling the truth about.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
About what was going on in the world.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
Yes, and they killed her live on air.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
So anyway, now, Heckie.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Guess summary final thoughts And if I remember correctly, Arthur
starts this week.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Well, I mean, Arthur wasn't here last week, so did
I lie?
Speaker 4 (44:40):
I say go for it because last week we let
Brenda go first because Brenda, hold.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
On, hold on. So I'm just gonna put this here.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
You might just want to start beeping here and just Lexie,
put your fingers in your ears.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Your brother's about to lose son. Go ahead, what you
got to say. You don't need to shoot a gay
man in the head and get let off on him.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Twinkie defense, Go deal with that.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
It's funny. Who was just like, oh yeah, let's name
it the twinkie defense because all he's eating is fool
That's actually.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
What worked, Okay. The idea for the defense was probably
his defense attorney. Uh And as far as the twinkie defense,
the press named it that because the pipe nights, because
in the the defense's paperwork they said that he was
(45:42):
surviving on twinkies and other junk food. So hence it
became the twinkiees defense.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Great job for great job for Milk though, you know,
great job for Harvey.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
He did a lot of good use player.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Actually, yeah he did some.
Speaker 11 (46:00):
He did some more definitely morally gray, morally dark gray
things with some of the underage dating. Yeah, that's that's Leo.
God's trying to messed up Harvey.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
It wasn't illegal.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
My mother's father would have killed her for dating a
thirty year old man at sixteen, So him dating a
sixteen year old man at thirty was I get that
it was appropriate back then, but my mother was a
girl in the fifties, and that would not have phown
(46:42):
even even with it being it just it was still.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Not I am not defending it absolutely, but I am
get that. But it was what I'm saying that gay men,
especially young gay men, would often seek old or lover.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
I mean, I know, I know how long I waited
to be with anyone as an overweight teenage girl if
I had not socially accepted sexual preference, same thing, and
definitely it would make it harder to find someone who
I felt comfortable with. And so I absolutely can see
(47:24):
the issues.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
So it was a common thing at the time. That
does not make it right.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
But that's not cool.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
When we're talking about cultural issues. I think it's only
fair we look at them through the lens of the
time that they had. And so looking at that lens,
young gay men didn't really there wasn't anybody in school
(47:56):
that was going to help them out. They so what
they had was older men and that sort of turned
into a thing for a while, the original Bears and Cubs,
it was called that because the Cubs weren't quite done
growing Again, doesn't make it right. But and Harvey is
(48:17):
one of those gay men that as he got older
dated younger men. But I agree he should have passed on.
He should have passed on.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
I'm listening.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
He should have passed on the sixteen year old for
a lot more reasons other than him being sixteen. Absolutely,
the kid wasn't altogether there.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
Yeah, he had had some definite mental was not people
didn't even talk about self harming and those kinds of things.
That wasn't I've said for years, and this was I
was in school in the from the late eighties to
(48:59):
the early nine These and the things that happen nowadays
in school that our children are at least they're aware
of that. They try to put things in place anti bullying,
rules and requirements, and sensitivity and empathy training and all
(49:21):
of those things that we talk about now, those were
not things when we were kids, you know. So knowing
that knowing how to help someone that is threatening self
harm was not something that we got when we were
in school, you know that. And so even ten and
(49:44):
twenty years before, even ten and twenty years before that
definitely wasn't something that they were getting information on that
they would really know how to deal with.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Even in your thirties or forties, right, what.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Showing there were showing her it.
Speaker 4 (50:01):
Was avocado ranch, so that I wouldn't eat it if
if I didn't want to try it.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
At least it's not Caesar dressing. Caesar dressing is made
with anchobies, and anchobies are who I.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Never knew that.
Speaker 4 (50:20):
I've probably had Caesar dressing with anchovies and it. Then
I didn't know that they put that in Caesar dress.
I've had caesar selados.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Anthobies aren't those like the fish fish?
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Yeah? Blend them up?
Speaker 2 (50:37):
No, No, okay, if I ever wanted to try thee
So do you feel better it most of it out.
It's a stereotical and typical white.
Speaker 4 (50:51):
Male, well especially at that time.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
But yeah, look when you're equating a way. To me,
it's funny that he equated pot smokers to homosexuals to cynics,
because to me, they're all the same level of problem,
not really very much alone, you know, And if that's
your biggest worry, then I really I don't see what
(51:18):
your platform is. And and at that time loves him Dad.
At that time he was like, I'm all about defense
of the status quo, and Moscone was a straight man.
Moscone got killed because Moscone was friends with Milt though so.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
Or at least as far as to get his way,
and so he was angry about that.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
No, he wasn't angry. Remember, according to his defense attorney,
he had he's just nourished.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Yeah, he'd had too much sugar.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Heed. Yeah, and he just couldn't find my asps.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Oh, can I help you? It's okay.
Speaker 4 (52:13):
He knows where that button.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
Is, Arthur. You can look if you feel about something
and you need to get I don't mind you expressing it.
We are a preg thirteen podcast. It just means I'll
beep you and I'll probably beat you a couple extra
places because I think it's funny to beep you that much.
But that's okay. People will will will become three dollars
(52:35):
Patreon members and go wait, you didn't need to beep
him there, and I'll go have anyway few evil laughter.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Yes, it's because some of the words that I use
are quite Oh are you upset that I'm holding my son.
Speaker 12 (52:59):
So so like I betrayed you. He smells chicken, that's
why he's up here. Oh he smells chicken and bacon.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Yeah, No, he's it was here before the chicken.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
All right, Well, but I just I never knew Milk's
whole story, and I never knew like that he he
in addition to all the things he did and tried
to do for the LGBTQ, but like setting up daycare
(53:41):
for working mothers, converting military facilities into low cost housing,
things that helped everyone. And that's why I titled the episode.
And you know my titles, they never last from when
I come up with the episode two when I release it.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
But well, never don't remember because I think a couple
of weeks ago you actually kept one.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Once in a while, once in a great while, I will.
But in this case that it's it's called Harvey Milk,
the hero all of us deserve. Yeah, because I feel
like this is who we need politically right now. We
need a guy like this, a guy who's not just
looking out for himself, a guy who's not just looking
(54:31):
out for his own community, but who's.
Speaker 4 (54:36):
I wanted to come in with my final thoughts because
I agree with you it wasn't even necessarily that he
was that great of a man, because a lot of
the things that he's known for were things that directly
affected him. He didn't just stop at that right, You
(54:57):
didn't just say this is for me and people like me.
He also said, what about those single moms, What about
these people who need a second chance? What about protecting
people so they can be healthy and they can have
jobs and they can have community in those things.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
So what about taking care of my neighborhood with more
places to learn and better community policing. And this is
from a guy that you know, was offhandedly included by
Dan White as part of his cynics homosexuals and pot
(55:35):
smokers against you know, American family values or whatever, which
to me is just such a joke anyway. Yeah, yeah,
so but that's my final thought. Anything else. I mean,
I'm very glad we did this episode between this and
Alice P. Toklas, and there is a connection because when
(56:00):
Harvey came to the area he joined, there was a
group called the Alice B. Toplis Democratic LGBTQ Plug and
it may still be there, but they were basically the
king makers, like if you wanted to run for a seat,
you had to go through them. And by the time
(56:22):
Harvey was running in the seventies, he bucked that system.
He did it all on his own without their help
because they didn't want to help him because they when
he initially ran and talked to them about it, one
of the guys running it was like, well, when I
was a kid, we used to have a saying about elections.
(56:43):
You don't get to dance unless you put up the chairs.
And I ain't seen you putting up any chairs.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
Oh well, okay.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
And I think, because that seems to be a very
old phrase, what that means is back in the days
at school dances, it was like the gym or whatever,
and so somebody would have to come in, move the tables,
put up the chairs. And I think it's referring to that,
like if you want to be you want to dance,
(57:13):
you got to come early and help us set up.
And okay, I see your point, But you also had
to see his value. Clearly, he was a popular person,
and he was someone who as outgoing as he was
and out as outspoken as he was. I mean, we're
(57:35):
talking about a man who, when you know, a corporate
company said you can't work here with long hair, he
turned around and said, well, I guess I don't work here,
and quick, Yeah, that's that's standing up for yourself. That's
loudly standing up so and so. I mean, had I
(57:58):
been that guy, I would have absolutely absolutely went, you
want to be part, you want to run, Okay, you
can run, but we're gonna need your help. I would
have made an ally, not an enemy. It scared me
and so I smacked it gotcha. Probably Jeff gold was out.
Speaker 4 (58:19):
In the air conditioning, so it was all like slow
and happy.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
So probably Jeff Goldlun. Jeff Goldmun was in a movie
called The Fly. I know it happened in the eighties.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
No I was. I wasn't looking at you like that.
I was because of that. I was looking at you
like that because Fly was Chris, because I looked out
at like a weirdo.
Speaker 4 (58:45):
That's my main final thought that, you know, he could
have just stopped it at doing something for himself, at
doing something for his business, at doing something that would
reflect into his life.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
But he didn't stop it.
Speaker 4 (58:58):
That he wanted to do things for community, he wanted
to do things for the world. He wanted to make
a difference for the next generation and all the generations
to come.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
So and and he kept don't doing it, knowing his
life was on the line. Like the ending that happened,
he knew could happen, maybe not how or who, because
if he knew it was Dan White, I think he
would have spent more time avoiding the man or something.
But he knew it was a possibility, and he wanted
(59:33):
his death to echo across the country with every gay
person coming out of the closet and saying I'm gay.
Two and we won't take this anymore.
Speaker 2 (59:43):
Yeah, basically a part two of and I don't mean
to get to political career, but like basically a part
two of what is happening currently. It's like, you have
to you have to come out and show that you're
still alive. You're still trying to show that you exist,
(01:00:03):
and you won't let the political system system take you down,
because that is exactly what they're trying to do. Like
they said, they like they take off the they take
off nine eight eight, and they're just like you, Now
you can't call anymore. So now see what you can
do because we're not gonna have this available for.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
You because it costs money. And he thinks that I'm
not gonna name names. I'm not gonna name call, but
I'm going to say that this administration seems determined to
give benefits to billionaires at the cost of the rest
of us, right, and I will leave.
Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
Why why would they be any different when they're run
by the.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Billionaire because none of them are Harvey Milk. Yep. And
the thing is is, is Harvey Milker help me as president.
Harvey Milk has you're not old enough. You need to
be at least thirty five. I was, well, they at
(01:01:14):
some point, Arthur, to be serious.
Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
We don't have to be serious.
Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
I would love for you to go into law and
into politics. I would love to see a world where
Arthur had some water saying it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
But the thing is is Harvey could have stood up
just for the LGBTQ. But Harvey had already like Harvey
had questions, hard questions like why am I loaning the
school camera equipment when they're supposed to have it provided?
(01:01:53):
And he addressed that why are there homeless people on
the streets of Castro? Why don't we have we have
all these buildings.
Speaker 4 (01:02:01):
So, Arthur, in nineteen years, I will be the first
person to sign up to vote for you as because
of the United States that still is one at that time.
And of course I'm still here provided.
Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
You're just You're still gonna be drums, geneers.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
And that's I mean, thanks Harvy Milk. I guess that's
that's what I'm gonna end.
Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
I guess that was our final thoughts. That was a
long conversation. We needed a cut version and an uncut version.
In my opinion, that's our show. That's our show.
Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Yeah, So thanks for listening, Thanks for keeping us in
the good Podstop one hundred. Thanks to Laura, Arthur Blue
and Lexi uh and the rest of the fan love
you all. Thanks to h Bill Heyge Aaron. Bill is
(01:03:02):
Bill barrn b E h R E N d T
who does our theme music. Thank you Bill. If you
need music for a project or someone to perform an event,
He's your guy. Bill Barron at SBC global dot Net.
Page is Page Olmore of the Reverie Crime podcast, who
combines her at Canva Addiction with our own Arthur's artwork
to create logo art for us. Thank you, Page, Thank you.
(01:03:23):
And Aaron is Aaron gunnerk of The Big Dumb Fun Show,
who continues to promote us locally. Join us again next
week as we take tackle bookstores to resistance centers or
as resistance center. Sorry with the owner of the Austin,
Texas Book Burrow, Kelsey Black, I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (01:03:44):
Bye,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com