July 24, 2025 • 67 mins
This week we head to Carthage Missouri to attend the birth of a Wild West :Legend, the Bandit Queen Belle Starr, We discuss her birth, her family, her brothers who all came to bad ends, including one who disappeared mysteriously. We discuss her family's ties to the South as the Civil War came and went and her family's move to Scylene, Texas where she drove one of the wagons. She idolized the James-Younger gang and learned how to shoot, eventually becoming a legendary outlaw and a planner of criminal activities, employing various criminals for various purposes, fencing their ill gotten gains and even arranging for their release from jail if they were caught. She was eventually caught and charged with horse thievery and even that didn't stop her. She served her time in Detroit before returning to a life of crime. She was famously murdered and her murder remains unsolved. In Arthur's corner we discuss the death of Ozzy Osbourne, the release of the game Secret of the Mimic and of course, Dandy's World in this wide ranging crazy episode of the Family Plot Podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm Dean, I'm the dad.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm Laura, I'm the mom, and I'm Arthur, I'm.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
The son, and together we are the family plot. Very nice,
very nice. I'm impressed with that. All right, let's get
the housekeeping out of the way just as soon as
we're able. If you'd like to help us by buying
some merch from our Tea Spring Merchandise store, like oh,
(01:14):
I don't know, stickers please, mugs and T shirts, all
with our own Arthur's artwork. You can get that through
our Tea Spring Merchandise store. Now, if you can't afford
the merchandise, we understand that we have kids, we can't
afford anything ourselves. But what you can do is become
(01:37):
a monthly Patreon donor at the one or three dollar level.
Both levels get ad pre versions of the show, and
the three dollar level gets special editions of the show
where we let Arthur say pretty much whatever he wants,
except we don't let him talk about slapping fat babies.
(01:59):
We don't let him about that at all.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Leave the poor fat babies alone, exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I've never wanted to talk about that once in my
entire life.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
So Arthur doesn't slap any kind of baby's skinny, fat, adorable.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
All babies are adorable.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay, that's the Mother of the World talking. And if
you cannot afford a monthly donation, you can always do
just a dollar or two through buy me a coffee.
If you can't afford that, one thing you can do
that is absolutely free to you but means so much
to us. If you enjoy the show, please share it
(02:37):
on social media.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
With friends, share with family with.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That very one, and you could also leave us a
five star review. If you don't enjoy the show, please
keep it to yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You have anything nice to say, don't see anything at all.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
So what's on the agenda for today?
Speaker 3 (03:12):
About today?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Vid Today we go back to the mid eighteen hundreds
to meet a woman who became known as the Bandit Queen.
Born in Carthage, Missouri, she went on to become a
bandit and ne'er do well and a bit of a legend.
In this Welcome to the Wild West, who says women
can't do whatever they want? Episode of the Family Plot podcast.
(03:38):
Yeah here we go. So Myra may Bell Bell Shirley
was born on February fifth, eighteen forty eight, on her
father's farm near Carthage, Missouri. She was born to John Shirley,
who was a black sheet from a well to do
(04:00):
Virginia family. Once he settled down in Carthage, he ran
a livery stable, which is a place where you keep
horses to rent out. I did not know that's what
a livery stable was. No, that's what.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Delivery all of your years of D and D. And
you didn't know that's what a.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Livery stable was.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
No. Cool, my people, my character's own horses, they never
rent them.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Well, now you know something new to throw out in
your next campaign.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
There we go.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And he also owned a blacksmith shop, both located on
the town square. He would later open an inn as well.
When she was little, most people called Maybell May which
may be see what I did there, why she chose
to change it later. Her fire father had been married
(04:48):
three times, but his current wife was Elizabeth Eliza Hatfield Shirley,
and yes, she was a distant relative of the family
that family famously feuded with the McCoys.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Was one things for answering that questions, like you were
reading my mind before you even said it.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
She had several brothers and the only sister. And the
only sister born to her parents. Though John would father
girls with his previous wives, none of whom would come
to be friends with one of whom would come to
be friends of a sort with Maybell. But her brothers
were all a bit wild and grow up to become
criminal or live on the fringes of the law. May
(05:26):
herself was given a classical education and taught piano at
the Carthage Female Academy, a school her father helped to found.
That being said, Maybell had her own wild side. The
teacher of her class, Missus Poole, thought may of Maya
is rather wild, and we know may ditched her studies
fairly regularly. You know, girls got to do what a
(05:50):
girl's got to do, and so apparently do boys. For example,
this boy has a corner that we should let him
take it and take on.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Okay, we've had over Arthur's corner.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Here ye, here, ye, allow me to present Arthur's corner.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to my corner. I'm Arthur.
If you don't remember that somehow, welcome back to my paper.
Welcome to my corner. If this is the first episode,
you're listening to, so many good episodes, but this one's
really good too, so we no, it's never we hope
(06:46):
it's always a good we know. Okay, how are you today, Arthur?
I'm I'm doing well.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
We're doing well. You have a cuply giddy on your lap.
Even your kitty it's another kitty. No, it's another cat,
which is your kidy?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Okay, I haven't seen him today. He's good, he's yeah.
He's always hanging out either in my window, somewhere in
my room, or.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
All about your room.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Now.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Oh yeah, you guys have been you guys had your
room redo and he's been up your tiny and around
the corner.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Oh yeah. And his voice. You know how much that
cat has been using his voice?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I heard him. Yeah, he's been used very verbal.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
He's been very verbal, very verbal. Usually for those of
you that don't know my cat, Thunder is very small
rount cat. And I don't think this has anything to
do with it, but he his voice is very it's
it's it's not very often that he uses it.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, and he's actually kind of the owls silently, like
he opens his mouth but nothing comes out.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Like he whispered, me ows. And then recently he's found
out that, oh I can actually use my voice wow.
And now he's just been like, okay, sir, I hear you,
but what do you want?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
He's become Mawley yet not demonstrative, not demonstrative to show
you what he actually needs.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't show you. He just kind of.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Hollers at you.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, I see.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
That sounds like it could be frustrating for sure.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Not really. He just kind of just makes noise to
make noise. Now, so whenever he does make noise, I'm
just like, okay, dude, why not.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I didn't take my meds to mom, realizing matter work
in the afternoon.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Well how about you take those morning meds on board,
and then you know.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
She has to take her nightments.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
She can take her name man.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
When I get ready to go to bed.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
He's not wrong.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I I had thought this true. I had a plant.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
They're lemonade colors. It is it lemonade colors. I'm saying
that because I just made myself under glass of lemonade.
I think lemonade women.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yes, but your mother is both sweet and a little
spicy like lemonade, so no spicy.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Yeah. Well, he didn't want to call me sour.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He's trying to make sure he stays on my good
side because he likes to sleep in his bed.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
That and I was trying to figure out a way
to turn that into a compliment.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I love you too. That's the whole reason I like you.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Know sour reminds me of Sass.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Well, that's why he was saying spicy, because Sassy is spicy, tangy.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I mean, look, I was going to open the show
with my best attempt at a Elvis impersonation, and your
mom was quick to shut that down.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, it was it was too country.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So it was too country, could never be too country.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
My bad boy of comedy just doesn't do country.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Did I ask how how you guys are? You didn't?
That's my asshouse? How are you guys?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
What the heck? Man?
Speaker 3 (10:30):
You're just a little, a little off you're getting today,
Arthur day.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
How let's start with mom? How are you beautiful? Other
than I'm okay?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
She because we haven't we had we've been fighting the
fleas damn it.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Time and the fleas be fighting because Blue has boyfriend
that has dogs. Yep. M and Madam and.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I I have been a busy, busy kid.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
You have of you, You've been like You've been like
spitballing with other other people about stuff and things and
working on writing ideas.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And research and all kinds of good stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You Yeah, well, okay, I I am planning a bit
of speculative fiction about the new Madrid seismic zone uh
erupting or breaking or whatever it is. Do you do
when the it results in an earthquake, which would be
much more devastating than anything in California. I found out
(11:45):
why because California there's no real big rocks under the state.
Mostly they were all broken upello. We have tons of
big rocks under us now. If the fault goes, we'll
feel it here in Kansas City, but we won't suffer
much devastation at all, not unless it's a huge earthquake.
(12:07):
But Saint Louis, Memphis, oh, those cities, and the devastation
will be widespread. So yeah, so I'm working on that. Plus,
I started writing a piece about a zombie virus uncovered
in the thawing Antarctic that that infiltrates or gets in
(12:32):
some Antarctic researchers during an Antarctic winter.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Oh boy, oh wow, that sounds like fun or something.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
It's gonna be fun to write. I doubt it would
be fun for any of the imaginary people involved there.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that just sounds more like eternal suffering
to me.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Well, there are already eternals eternally suffering their figments of
my imagination.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
Oh wow, that's a scary place to hang out. So
let's see recently, recently we got our two new beds
put together. A yeah, well that's cool. Yeah, I got
a dinosaur bed sheet.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yes, you've got dinosaur bedding, you got dinosaur betterans and
anything else? I don't know. I'm thinking, Okay, how we
talk about secret of the mimic on here yet?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
What the heck is that?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
I would say, that's a no, because we're not even
sure what that is. Okay, So the secret of a
mimic or secret of mimic is uh is a game
that Steel Wool made, Okay, and it's it's like five
minutes of Preddies, but it's been changed quite a bit. Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And when you say mimic, are we talking like D
and D mimic or.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Some something else.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Okay. It's basically just this indoskeleton that was made to
copy the way the creator of the machines did things
interesting and like.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
He was.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Or not he but the Mimic or the Indo Skeleton
was the backup for Edwin. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
Okay, and Edwin, I'm pretty sure died or something. So
this is like a spin off of Five Nights at Friday's.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
It's it's five Nights of Fridays. It's made by the
people who own Five Nights at Friday's made old.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So it's.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
So it's a spin off of Five Nights of Fridays.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, okay, yeah, someone okay like Sister Location but cooler.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, yeah, i'd say so.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Works.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I don't like Sister Location about the guys.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I don't know anything about it other than it exists,
So I don't know enough to like it or hate it.
But if my Arthur doesn't like it, then I am
mad at it.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
It's just not half as good as the first few
or the most recent ones Security Breach and uh, Secret
of Mimic or whenever. But I really like Secret of Mimic.
A lot of people had negative emotions about it, but
I really like how it turned out, and I really
like the changes they're making with the game.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
It's in no way, it's in no way a Bad Game.
It definitely has changed a lot since the first game,
but it's still got a little bit of the same
spark to it because animatronics and right like, you're trying
to find out puzzles and you have to run for
(16:14):
vandamatronics and.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
It's very It's somewhat similar to UH Security Breach, but
it's also somewhat similar to some other games because it
has some aspects that were like incorporated into it that
makes it also kind of feel like its own game. Cool.
(16:40):
So that's fun. That's been my hyperfocusation recently. Awesome, let's
see going back to school soon? Yes, not school school.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I hope I got to look into that.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
This week's been a little rough though. We went to
More Fields yesterday.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
We love More Fields. They don't even sponsor the show,
but I will say we love More Fields. Two.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Well, they're they're just a little mom and pop shop
and they don't want too much too much media. They're
just kind of there and they do their thing.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Well, I wasn't saying it's a negative. I'm just saying
I would promote. I promote them without any financial recompense.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
They're they're they're When I offered they were like, no,
we're we're good, so more tuberful. I know, it's it's
time that it gets ah, it's time that it gets
a new home in the trash can and I get
something else.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
But not today.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I was going to say, we're we're ready for I
think I'm almost ready for Halloween?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Oh are we?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
It's your table, put on what you want. But I'm
just saying we got a creepy vibe in this family.
Sometimes we should embrace it. Although, you know, make it goth,
make it god. I was gonna say, although you embrace
the goth fairy thing too, so you know so so
butterflies are fine, Well.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Butterflies is dying.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
That's that's yeah, there's just giant butterflies don't live that long.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
No they don't.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
You're right, it's ally parton. You will be remembered. Slash Jay.
I think she's still here.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
You know she is.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Mazzy.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Osbourne died yesterday though, which is amazing because all the
drugs he's done, I thought nothing would kill him.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I just figured he was living on borrow time. But
you know, he was lived a pretty impressive life. And
like I was telling Arthur Or yesterday, I think he
even performed like as recently.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
As a month ago or something.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, he made his final performance like a month ago.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, I see the one who's like bit off the
head of that.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yes, absolutely, I thought they called him the Prince of
Darkness or something.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yep, well, the Blizzard of Oz. I mean, yeah, he
had lots of nicknames. But I okay. There's a movie
called Feast. It was produced by Ben Affleck and Matt
Damon as part of their project today green Lights horror movie.
But Jason Muse is in it, uh, the guy that
(19:42):
played Jay Jay and Silence. Right anyway, at the beginning
of the movie, they introduce all their characters and you know,
tell you how long they've lived, and in some cases
they're like, won't make it through the movie or whatever.
When they get to Jason Muse, they him as Jason
Muse and already living far longer than he should have.
(20:07):
And that's sort of Ozzy right there. That's Ozzy in
a nutsheb Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I mean every time I've seen in the last five years,
I've been like, he's still alive. Well, I know I
know that he I'm sure. Okay, I feel terrible because
I've always thought that Sharon Osborne and even their kids
were absolutely amazing. They did a lot of positive things
(20:32):
in the world. I'm not dissing Ozzy Osbourne, and I'm
sure that his grandchildren and his children and his wife
miss him terribly. Not trying to make light of his passing.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
I'm not either. I just thought the guy was At
one point I was his biggest fan. When I was
in high school. I was Ozzy all the way. Oh
my god, I have a leather well not a leather,
but I have a trench coat somewhere with Ozzy on
there that I did my best to do the big
o Z's with the little things through them, tried to
(21:09):
do his name as gothy as he did. And yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
A fan.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I'm a fan even like the last project I watched
by Jack Osbourne was him showing videos to his mom
and dad. Yeah, and they would weigh in on whether
they thought it was a real thing or not a
real thing, and as well, and one of my favorite
(21:39):
moments on there was apparently a house they lived in
like their summer home. It caught fires and Jack was
talking about, well, that was a pretty mysterious fire, and
Ozzy was like, no, it's not because she likes candles
but is not real good with But I'm taking up
(22:02):
Arthur's corner.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I'm sorry. Cuddly.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, he's got someone holding him. He's thrilled.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Baby.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
He will put his face.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Is a baby.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
He's a big baby.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
He will put his face right in your baby, in
the crook of your elbow so the light doesn't bug
him and he will.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
See he's a big furry baby.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Anyway, Arthur, I interrupted your corner. I am so sorry, son,
You're fine.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I'm trying to remember songs that I listened to for
ausi Aboard, because I know I've listened to Ausio.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Oh God, there's so many No More Tears that Prince
of Darkness.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Don't go listen. I think I House from Blue God.
That's not where that books. There's something else.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Aleister Crowley, he wrote that mister Crowell was the name
of that song, actually, mister Crowley h And that was
on the Blizzard of Oz CD or album.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I don't want to sound really stupid. If you cut
if I say, it will sound really stupid, will you
cut me out?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
No More Tears.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
No More Tears is debt YEP. That was off of
the Ultimate Sin, which itself is a good song.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And then I think it's like Dragula.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Or Dragula's Rob Zombie.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
You can come me on on that one.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I'm not gonna brought you. Don't sound stupid. Rob Zombie
is awesome.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
He's good. I was just trying to think of Ozzy Osbourne.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I love his music. I like his movies. Your mom
not a fan? Yeah, not a fan at all. I
could invite her to watch House of a Thousand Corpses
and she would die.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Let me hear you scream soul sucker life, won't wait?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Oh, mom's looking looking at look up, Mom busting out
the internet to look up. Ozzie sounds beautiful.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
His biggest hit is considered to be Crazy Trained.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Crazy Train is of course, Mom.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I'm coming home. Ye, no more tears, So.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Ozzie a great We did lots of things for the
world of music. He will be missed and remembered.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, our buddy Dale is deep in morning.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Absolutely, I'm sure, because he definitely did amazing things at
music and add a long, illustrious career and expounded on
the abilities of the human body, and.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
He and did drugs for a while, like it was
his job and.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Drunk and everything else. Yes, anything else, buddy, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I can think of something.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Okay, might have Pete on stage at the Alamo or something.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Wow, I didn't need to hear that one. I totally
love you, mom, It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Out Dad.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Would you get to totally love Dad?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
No? No, no, that wasn't a thing. I've been playing
Dandy's World a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
You playing Dandy's World?
Speaker 3 (25:49):
No? No, yeah, yeah, I've been. I got almost I
have almost all the mains in the game, meaning I
have almost every tune. Oh took a lot of grinding.
I have Astro, I have astro no pebble?
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Do you have Goob?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I do have Goob?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I love good And you have a good t shirt
I've seen I do.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I've worn that actually kind of recently, I think.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
And I like this tattoo you've drawn on yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Thank you. I have to get it for realsies, wonder
astro pebble en vy. I do have YadA.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
There you go. What about nada?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
No nada, there's no nada in the game. Well, that's
weird unless you're talking about people who just like speak
Spanish to nada. You know, you probably could use that.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
As a drumstick, probably.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Lexi said it was just too thin for a drumstick. Really,
I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Kind of the end is if you're playing heavy metal,
Oh yeah, that'll.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Break, that'll snap instant.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
But like you know, little lightelophone, little light jazz or xylophone, Yeah, Woodburg, Cruz,
the xylophone one of the rare words that begins with X.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
What doesn't our xylophone and the x ray.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Oh, there's a few others, zun and Tunic. Oh, it's
the name of the city. We've talked about it on
the show The City of the Ghost Woman.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I think I'm sorry, I'm sorry my memory is but
but yeah, the is based off those signs. I can't
remember what they're called.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Selon. Yeah, yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Usually take them like in like a more somewhat discrete
design or like just design it better because there's nothing
wrong with how you did it. I like it.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I like it too, and I knew it was a
semi colon. I like the semi colon as a tattoo
because someone explained to me what it means. Yep, it
means you've been through a rough hatch and you might
have considered taking your own life, or you.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Might have tried taking your own life, but you still.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Went on exactly, So it was a pause, not a stop,
right and Nate. It encourages others not to stop, but
maybe to pause. Yes, and I like that message. That's
a good message, that keep living message. That's great. So
so I I am. I approve my.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Son on Miko has the same same coleon on his thigh.
Speaker 6 (29:08):
I've see's part of the reason I want to get
it tattooed.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Gotcha anything else is I'm just about to say no,
that's that's probably it.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Okay, let's put in some claps here and then Arthur,
you want to take this next section? If like I
get this thing down, I'll take him. I don't think
he doesn't want down. He wants love. That's what him wants.
Come here, buddy, baby.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
He's a big baby, big baby.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Look, she sheds almost as much as my cat does.
He's very hairy.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
He's a chunky monkey.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
It's a big baby. Now, I don't look like I
took him, not like I'm anyways. Now, as we mentioned
in our Jesse James episode, is that a bogey mom?
No friends that was Me episode. If you're interested, check
(30:17):
it out. Will wait. Missouri was in most places beyond
owning slaves. Curiously, however, the Shirleys were considered basically commoners
because they didn't own slaves. Carthage, like Missouri, was a
place of both Southern gentility and Southern sympathies. On July fifth,
(30:43):
eighteen sixty one, one of the earliest engagements of the
Civil War battle and the battle is dubbed the Battle
of Carthage. After the town that was pretty well destroyed. Ow,
I'm sorry for that town, Carthage becomes home to a
(31:06):
pitched battle between Union and Confederate troops. Oh boy, Eliza
and John's oldest boy, John Allen Budd Shirley joined the
Confederate because possibly signing up with Tranquil Raiders. We discussed
them in the Jesse James Allen Trills Sorry well, okay,
(31:29):
juand Trill's Raiders. We discussed them in the Jesse James episode,
as well as our episode about the old Jackson County
Jail episode fifteen. If you're curious, I swear some of
these we just need to redo. Maybe episode fifteen was
so long ago, Gus. We did an update of Sharon Kenny.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, but nothing's changed about the Jackson County jail.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah. Sorry, I woke up to a bunch of heavy
loud machinery. This boy.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, that was fun.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
We know.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
He was a bushwhacker for all the Confederates, an old
term for guerrilla.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Gorilla, like the animal. Oh it's pronounced like the animal gorilla.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I don't like that fighter who usually attacked foes from
a hiding place.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Oh did they do.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
That little army crawl thing? Yes, beautiful. In eighteen sixty four,
Bud was killed by Union troops, and John Shirley, conflicted
over the war and sikh at heart over what he
saw over what he saw as the political killing of
(32:53):
his son, sold his business and consolidated everything he owned
into two Sanstanoga though Conestoga Countistoga wagons and fled to
sign Sien Sien. I think Cyene, Texas. That sounds like
(33:16):
a spicy pepper, but okay, which was a Confederate Confederate
stronghold at the time. Maybell was sixteen when Bud died.
Some people like to ignore the fact that Maybell had
a wild streak of her own and possibly acted as
a spy for Bud and his associates. It's a theory
with little proof to back it up, and almost certainly
(33:40):
acted as a spy for the Bushwhackers after Bud's death.
These people like to point out the event of of
losing Bud after her changes. Losing Bud changed her from
(34:01):
one picture of Southern geniality gentility. But I said that
right the first time. I don't know what's wrong with you,
daddy to a hard to a hardened survivor who even
drove off, drove one of the wagons to sayin But
(34:24):
as I said, that ignores her on wild Streak.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
So let's take a moment and hear from some of
our fellow content creators.
Speaker 7 (34:35):
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all as a child, Now they can thrill us as adults.
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fear will wrap around the mind in this roller coaster
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collection of extreme gory and psychological short stories and flash fiction.
Get your copy of Father Figure today at danbfiercebooks dot com.
Speaker 8 (35:11):
They rule the streets. They take what they want and
it over street meets before we make you dead meats,
and you'll have to deal with them if you want
to make it through the night. If Ashley wants to survive,
(35:35):
she'll need to fight on their turf. She'll have to
fight dirty, stop struggling, and she'll have to pick them
off one by one if she hopes to make it
through the night. Make It Through the Night, the savage
(35:59):
novel of revenge and violence on the Streets by Amy Koto,
available now from Amazon dot com. Find more by author
Amy Koto by visiting TV Fanatic dot blog or on
Twitter at TV Underscore Fanatic Underscore Girl. Make It Through
the Night by Amy Coto. Her Night from Hell has
(36:21):
only just begun.
Speaker 9 (36:31):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Well, that was awesome.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
We'd love to hear from our indie author friends.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yep, your uncle Dan doing well?
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Could be good? Love that for her, Yes, we shared it.
We miss him.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
I don't know, I do.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
So.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
As a young teengirl, Maybell constantly read about the James
Younger Game and their exploits. She also began to act
as a spy for the Bushwhackers while her brothers had
their own issues with the law. Her brothers would all
meet bad or at least undeterminate ends. Edwin Shirley became
(37:16):
a horse thief and was shot dead in the act
of stealing a horse. He was sixteen at this time,
and May would have been about eighteen when she was nineteen.
Younger brother, Mansfield Shirley likely died in a shootout with
law enforcement. I say likely because no accounts of the
(37:37):
incident survived this day, and he was listed as being
alive in the census three years later.
Speaker 10 (37:46):
However, it is not uncommon to borrow identities. It was
not uncommon to borrow identities in that day and age,
and most sources agree about the shootout and Mansfield's death.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Isn't un common today either. Do you see dating apps?
Do you see how many catfish there are?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
There? You go? According to a slave they acquired in
How do we say that Celene.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Silen Silen Selene would probably better named Aunt Annie.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
In an interview given in eighteen ninety four, Annie said
that Eliza Shirley had not seen her son Cravens aka
Doc in many years and believed he was dead. We
have no timeline for when this might have happened. Somewhere
during this time, May would learn to shoot and earned
(38:38):
a reputation as a crack shot. She would also meet and,
according to county records, Mary James a reed. She had
begun calling herself Belle. Around this time, she would also
meet the members of the James Younger Gang. She would
famously dress in a black velvet us a hat with
(39:01):
an ostrich feather, and ride's side saddle while firing two
pistols with her deadly effectiveness. While in Texas, Bell had
her first child, a daughter that the couple named Rosie Lee,
though they would call her Pearl. At some point, James
(39:24):
became wanted for a murder in Arkansas, and so the
couple would move to California, where Bell would give birth
to their to their son, James Edwin, whom they called Hetty.
They would return to Texas, where James would try his
hand at farming, but eventually got back into criminal ways
(39:46):
by hanging with the Star Clan, a Cherokee family living
in what was then dubbed Indian Territory but would eventually
become the state of Oklahoma. It was he who would
eventually introduce Bell to Sam Star, the clans leader. In
(40:08):
eighteen seventy four, James was confronted by Texas lawman in Paris, Texas,
and a shootout would ensue that would end James's life.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well, now let's take a moment for a word from
our sponsors.
Speaker 9 (40:38):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Baby, you want to take this next part for us?
Speaker 1 (40:42):
I was planning on it. So let's address a silly
rumor and let's get to know Sam Starr a little bit.
According to some Bell was briefly married a marriage supposedly
lasting around three weeks, to Charles Younger. Wow.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Definite, that is definitely a brief marriage.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
She was briefly supposedly married to Charles Younger, the uncle
of Cole Younger. According to other tales, Bell had relations
with Cole Younger, which is what actually led to the
birth of Pearl. In Cole Younger's biography, however, which was
quoted later in Glenn Shirley's Bell Starr and Her Times,
(41:23):
this was dubbed.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Bunk bs as we say in these here days.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah, still, it does make its way into modern sources,
as unlikely as it is, and some of this may
be because in later years Pearl Star would use the
name Pearl Younger. It may also be because the writers
of newspaper articles and fictional accounts felt the younger Star
romance too juicy to resist. Now, before we discuss the
(41:55):
marriage of Bell and Sam, we must provide a little
history of Sam Starr. Sam Starr was a Cherokee native,
the son of a famed Cherokee warrior and whiskey runner,
Tom Starr. Sam had grown up making a living on
the other side of the law and was a friend
of the Jans Younger gang who often hold up in
his place. They hold up there so often it was
(42:17):
often called Younger's Bend. This was located near the Canadian
River in modern day Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Awesome, So let's take a second word from our sponsor.
Speaker 9 (42:40):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
All right.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
I get to tuck the down and dirty, spicy stuff
of it all when Bell. When Sam met Bell, he
was impressed with her sense of style, her passion, and
her ability to shoot.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Usually that.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
However, she she knew very little about being a criminal. Sam.
Because thanks to Sam's Sam knew a lot about criminality,
and he began to educate the Fiery Belt. Belle would
learn how to organize criminals, whether they be livestock wrestlers,
(43:22):
horse thieves or bootleggers. She also knew how to plan
jobs for them and became an expert in fencing their
ill gotten gains. She made so much money doing this
that she was able to pay the courts to release
her men the few times they were actually caught. This
(43:45):
is when she began to earn the nickname the bandit Queen.
On June fifth, eighteen eighty she married Sam and became
almost literally a queen. Younger's Bend was also known to
harbor re fuseda tips the James Younger gang would hide
(44:06):
out here often, as would other less famous criminals. In
an interview with the Dallas Morning News in eighteen eighty six,
Bell said she was a friend to any bait, brave
and gallant outlaws prior to that. In eighteen eighty two,
(44:26):
she and Sam were arrest were arrested on warrants for
horse theft and taken to Fort Smith Arkanstraw, where they
were tried by the famed hanging judge Isaac Parker. Sam
and Bell were both set to jail. Sam would of
course make trouble in jail and was eventually put to
(44:49):
hard labor. Bell, on the other hand, imprisoned in jail
in Detroit, would be a model prisoner and impress the
jail's matron. Later, some lawmen would try to say she
was a wildcat in prison, but this is not born
out of the historical record. In eighteen eighty six, she
(45:12):
would be arrested again for horse thievery. However, she would
be acquitted on this charge. Later the same year, Sam
got in a shootout with his cousin, an officer of
the law named Frank West. Sam would die in the
shootout and the happiest period of her life would come
to an end. Curiously, due to her marriage to Sam,
(45:35):
she would become the aunt of Henry Star, a man
who would go on to become something of a silent
film star.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
And now we shall take another word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Remember that if you don't like to take pauses for
the sponsors, if you become a one or three dollars
Patreon subscriber, you can do away with those sponsor ads
and get your episodes before anybody else.
Speaker 9 (46:15):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
And welcome back. We very much enjoy our sponsors. Thank
you for sponsoring. Yes, but let's remember that if you
get the three dollars Patreon. You can now hear me
go wild.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yes, Arthur's gone wild.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
I've gone wild good times. Yeah, you were hiding under
your covers. You know you were scared a little bit.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
You take after me. When you get mad, you get asked.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
See.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Here's the thing. Here's the thing. I don't get mad
very often anymore. Yeah, but we're not.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Getting mad mad.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
I'm like a mixture of you and him putting scary.
It's a leg scary, frightening. In the final years of
her life, Bell Star became a frequent target of scandal sheets,
which linked to her parade, linked her to a parade
(47:20):
of colorfully named criminals. These publications thrived on gossip and sensationalism,
often blurring the line between between fact and fiction. While
some of her associations were real, many exaggerated or entirely
fabricated to feed the public's appetite for outlaw drama. Her
(47:46):
most pressing challenge, however, was legal, not criminal. Younger's Bend,
the land where she called home was part of Cherokee
Nation Nation territory. As a white woman, Bell could not
legally own property there. Jinder may have compounded the issue
(48:10):
as to women's property rights were still evolving in the
late nineteenth century. Took a long time dude yees to
secure her place at Younger Bins. After Sam Starr's death,
Belle into a marriage with Jim July Star, Sam's adopted son.
(48:31):
I'm sorry, yep, I'm sorry. No, yes, excuse my French.
But what the okay?
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Well read the next line.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
What the didn't okay? Most historians agree this was a
strategy strategic union, likely intended to preserve her residency and
maintain her claim to the land under Cherokee said custom Yeah,
I really don't care. Yeah, it's kind of somebody else,
(49:05):
find somebody else.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Why what.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
It's you know, you had.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
To do what you had to do.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
And it's not like he was Sam's son by birth.
He was adopted.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Yeah, I do, I do not care. Arthur's finking out.
Who doesn't make it any better? Nope, Nope, that was
still his son, adopted or not.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Well, let's talk about Bell's murder shock Shock. She was murdered.
Bell was riding home from visiting a neighbor on February third,
eighteen eighty nine, when she was shot in the back.
The killer used a double barreled shotgun, and legends say
it was one that actually belonged to bell. He or
she loaded it with buckshot and turkey shot. It struck
(49:54):
her in the back and arm, knocking her off her horse.
The killer then climbed the fence shot her again in
the face and shoulder. One shot that was the spray.
It hit not he didn't fire to work. Yeah, no,
I got you, and from there simply vanished. The case
is still officially unsolved, however, there are many sub suspects.
(50:17):
One is Jim July Star, whose relationship with Belle after
their marriage was stormy at best. It is believed he
offered two hundred dollars for her murder, roughly equivalent to
almost seven thousand dollars to day, still not a.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Lot considering that they had a lot a.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Lot of money. Another suspect is her son, Eddie Reid,
who had a history of conflict with Belle, and there
are rumors she abused him. The legend goes he killed
her after receiving a whipping. Another suspect is neighbor Edgar Watson,
who had what police believed to be the murder weapon.
(50:58):
He was arrested but never charged. Ar Still. Another suspect
is High Early, a neighbor who had accused her of
horse left and who had been shot at by Bell,
because by this point in her life, Bell was quick
to shoot at you, sure like you would be. Others
point to Jim Middleton, who claimed he had killed Bell
when he was on his deathbed in nineteen thirty nine
(51:20):
because he believed she had had a hand in his
brother's death. Other historians blamed Tom Starr, Sam Starr's father,
who believed that Sam had died because of Belle. After
her death, he was fond of saying she'd never cause
another death. Some claim a neighbor named Bertholf did the deed,
paid to kill her by Heart High Earlier, perhaps Jim
(51:44):
July Star Still. Another suspect was James Reed's brother, who
felt that Belle had a hand in her brother's death.
I see still. Others claimed that she had attended a
dance where she had inadvertently upset someone by declarined, aiming
their offer for a dance. Other tales attest to these
to those somehow injured by her performing the murder. There
(52:07):
are so many suspects no one can name them all.
Pearl Star Bell's daughter covered her grave with a sandstone
cap to keep treasure hunters and memento seekers away from it.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
So let's pause here for our very final words from
our sponsors.
Speaker 9 (52:37):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Some additional information about Bell's family. Bell's children, Eddie and Pearl,
went on to have interesting lives of their own. Young
Eddie would be arrested for horse thievery. There's a lot
of stealing horses back then. Pearl would eventually turn to
prostitution to raise money to get him out. Further campaigned
(53:01):
until he received a pardon for his crimes. Afterwards, he
joined the police in Oklahoma, caught two dangerous criminals, and
later died in a shootout. After her death, Bell was
largely unknown outside of Texas, but a fictional book about her,
(53:21):
entitled Bell Star, the Bandit Queen or the Female Jesse
James became.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Excuse me, sorry, bless you.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
You're fine, im massively popular after her death, and that
is what brought her name to the attention of most people.
Prl would capitalize on this notoriety by adopting her mother's
last name of Star and opening a brothel in Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
She would open a.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Second in Van Buren, Arkansas, and a third in be Arizona.
She would adopt the style and mannerisms of the now
famous mother of her now famous mother to run these
brothels until around the time of.
Speaker 3 (54:11):
The First World War. Legacy Bell has appeared played by
Gene Tyrny Tiny Tyranny okay in nineteen forty one's Bell Star,
a movie depicting Bell as a Southern Bell as a
(54:34):
Southern repeat of Bell Ye it will become, will becomes?
And and outlaw? Is it an eltwa? Or so just
supposed to be an an outlaw? Nineteen forty eight saw
Hollywood open a low budget odor called Bell Star, The
(54:57):
Bandit Queen nineteen forty four, Legend of the Fall ninety four.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
I said nineteen ninety four, You said nineteen forty four, I.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Said, nineteen ninety Four's okay anyway. Nineteen ninety four's Legend
of the Fall depicts Susannah as a character as a
character similar to Belle, caught between love, violence, and a myth. Also,
many of Deadwood's female character will character characters Okay, that's
(55:32):
what I thought. Characters were partially inspired by Belle and
or her tale. In the books good. I'm sick some
like Moses stuff and I'm mad about it. Glynnon Shirley's
Bell Star and Her Time attempt to dig into the
(55:53):
truths about Belle and ignore the fictions and fabrications. Michael
Wallace Bell Star. That's okay, I do this. Michael Wallace's
Bell Star. The truth behind the.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
You're fine wild West legend. I know, sir, I'm just
I know. I was just saying, that's where you should
pick it up.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
The wild West legend also attempts to find the real
Bell buried underneath the half truths, exaggerations and fictions about
the Bandit Queen. About the Bandit Queen. There are other
books that examined her cultural impact and tuns where she
(56:49):
is used as a fictional character. She appears in Red Dead,
Redemption Red I'm never talking again after this Red Dead
Redemption and I've heard of that. Gosh, you have to
make me use my Pressy little Girl boys who as
Black Bell and Woody Guthrie. Guthrie Okay wrote a song
(57:16):
called Bell Star that romanticizes her life. I'm not Arthur says,
He's them.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
You're all right, buddy, you made it through High five
that you're good, bud. Okay, So it's time for our
summer and our final thoughts.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
I think I I'm opening this week.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
I believe so sounds good. Anybody can open as longan
this this moment.
Speaker 1 (57:48):
I like Belle. I like her a lot. I think
she was a strong woman at a time when it
was not easy for women to be strong. Did she
do some thing that had I been around at the time,
I would have said, maybe don't Yeah, Oh yeah, she
did a lot of things I would have said at
(58:08):
the time, maybe don't do that, maybe that would do that.
But overall, and while I'm not thrilled at her choice
to marry her adopted son, how else was she going
to keep her laying? How else she was she going
to stay there because the government wasn't cool on well,
(58:30):
we'll let you get away with it.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
Yes, they just take shit.
Speaker 1 (58:34):
So, I mean, we've heard that over and over again.
I mean.
Speaker 3 (58:39):
So, and.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
Judging from you know how often Jim july Star's name
comes up as a suspect in her murder, I have
to imagine that the marriage was likely in name only,
and Jim was not thrilled about that. I think Jim
might have wanted more.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
Oh creepy.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
Yeah, see that party's creepy.
Speaker 3 (59:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:10):
But I like her, I do, I understand her. I'm
not thrilled at what I mean.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
I think she was like the quintessential original wild West
boss bet Be.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:25):
She like she was what we see as a botch
boss be nowadays. Yeah, I feel like she would have
been had she lived in a different time, she would
have been a capital of business. She would have been
rocking the world and making her claim in it.
Speaker 1 (59:43):
Yeah. I'm not thrilled at her family's views on slavery
or slaves, views that I don't know if she continued
the rest of her life. She certainly didn't balk at
marrying an indigenous American. Yeah, so, I mean she she
wasn't completely deep in in racism. She certainly wasn't all white,
(01:00:09):
and so perhaps she can be kind of forgiven if
if she, you know, felt flax were inferior. That was
common feeling at the time, even though it wasn't true.
But Yeah, overall, I like her. I think overall she's
an interesting character. Definitely, I like her a lot better
than Sharon Kenny.
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Well, that doesn't take much.
Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Always why wouldn't you like her? Oh oh, and I'm
even gonna talk about Sharon Kitty right now there.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Because she killed a lot of people same as Sharon
Kenny did.
Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
She didn't get in trouble for murder.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
She didn't kill a lot of people, I don't think.
Are we talk about her killing a lot of people
price for stealing horses supposedly, and that was after she
got rich and famous and.
Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Yeah, okay, but we know that she was a crack shot,
and we know that she engaged in robberies. She was
just never caught.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Yeah, So I have to suspect that she ended a
few lives riding side saddle and being a crack shot
with those pistols.
Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Maybe.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I don't know. I was just sitting on the thought
that she was a boss b I think she kind
of she kind of had to be, like she would
be like the Dawn, like she could have run her
own like mafia. It sounds like like she was one
of the first. She was putting it out there like
her and the Sicilians.
Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
She was. She could have taught them a thing or two.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
I think definitely she was a smart, smart lady.
Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Yeah, and she learned a lot from ants.
Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
I think she has. She has a lot of a
lot in common with the pirate queens.
Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
That we talked about.
Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Yep, yeah, she definitely does.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
So that's my final thought. I just think that she
was you know, she lived the life that she lived,
but I think that she was pretty incredible given her
given her life a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Are there you got any final thoughts? Absolutely? Not? No,
not after that.
Speaker 9 (01:02:28):
Not not after.
Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
That, He says, No, Paul, I have to say, is
uh go on girl Boss? I guess on girl Boss,
my friend hands on at the end of the show. No,
he'll have to censor one thing. Oh that poor that
(01:02:54):
poor Li was gonna have to pull out the censor.
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
I would have called her a boss and you the
actual word.
Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
But that's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Well that seems so. We are agreed then that all,
while she did some things that none of us entirely like,
we overall like her very much.
Speaker 11 (01:03:14):
I mean, she she lived her life. She wasn't too
bad or are we the judge? She wasn't half as
bad as that as ye as one of our.
Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
As Arthur's lesser favorite peoples.
Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Well, and part of that too is Sharon Kinney had
no morals whatsoever. She I'm gonna have to beat myself.
She sat it around quite a bit. Bell doesn't seem
to her. Bell seems to have gotten in relationships and
stayed in the English part.
Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
And I again, I think it's how much of those
relationships were the requirement of the time that she lived
in kind of thing well like, because as I would
imagine that even outside of the legal ramifications, there was
something to be said for, especially as someone who was
(01:04:12):
working with the criminal element, to have a man by
her side.
Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Yeah. No, but like the only time she's accused of
adultery are in the scandal sheets, and these are the
same sheets that years later were linking her with these
colorful outlaws, Like there was one named Blue Duck that yeah,
(01:04:40):
she took a picture with the guy, but we have
no historical evidence that she did more than that, gotcha.
And at that point outlaws who knew her would come
to meet her because she was kind of legendary at
least in Texas. So yeah, a lot of Texas outlaws. Yeah,
(01:05:02):
but that doesn't mean she was having a relationship with them.
And the relationships we know we had, she seems to
have been faithful. James Reed Star Sam Starr. Okay, her relationship,
her relationship to Jim Starr. Maybe she was sleeping around there,
(01:05:25):
but she didn't marry Jim Starr for her love. She
married him to keep her home. Yeah. So and if
she hadn't had to do that, I don't think she
would have done it. Yeah, probably not so Yeah, I
mean she seems to have been like she seems seems
to have been stable in her relationships for the most part.
(01:05:46):
So yeah, and that's our show. Thanks for listening, Thanks
for keeping us in the good pods. Top one hundred,
Thanks for being members of the fam. We love all
of you. Excuse me. Thanks to Blue Lexi, Laura and
(01:06:07):
Arper Hey Arfer. Thanks to Bill Barrant, the guy that
does our theme music. His last name is b E
h R E n d T. Bill. Get well soon.
I know he's home now from his surgery, but he's
still not doing perfectly, So get well soon, Bill. Bill
is a musician. If you need music for a project
(01:06:29):
or need someone to perform an event, he's your guy.
You can reach him at Bill Barrant at SBC global
dot net. Thanks to Paige Elmore of the Reverie Crime podcast,
who has combined her love of Canva with our own
Arthur's artwork for some logo art for a few episodes.
Thank you Paige, Thank you Page. Thanks to Aaron Gunnerk
(01:06:50):
of The Big Dumb Fun Show who continues to support
us locally. Join us next week as we look into
the murder of Ricky McCormick B
I'm Dean, I'm the dad.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm Laura, I'm the mom, and I'm Arthur, I'm.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
The son, and together we are the family plot. Very nice,
very nice. I'm impressed with that. All right, let's get
the housekeeping out of the way just as soon as
we're able. If you'd like to help us by buying
some merch from our Tea Spring Merchandise store, like oh,
(01:14):
I don't know, stickers please, mugs and T shirts, all
with our own Arthur's artwork. You can get that through
our Tea Spring Merchandise store. Now, if you can't afford
the merchandise, we understand that we have kids, we can't
afford anything ourselves. But what you can do is become
(01:37):
a monthly Patreon donor at the one or three dollar level.
Both levels get ad pre versions of the show, and
the three dollar level gets special editions of the show
where we let Arthur say pretty much whatever he wants,
except we don't let him talk about slapping fat babies.
(01:59):
We don't let him about that at all.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Leave the poor fat babies alone, exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I've never wanted to talk about that once in my
entire life.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
So Arthur doesn't slap any kind of baby's skinny, fat, adorable.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
All babies are adorable.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay, that's the Mother of the World talking. And if
you cannot afford a monthly donation, you can always do
just a dollar or two through buy me a coffee.
If you can't afford that, one thing you can do
that is absolutely free to you but means so much
to us. If you enjoy the show, please share it
(02:37):
on social media.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
With friends, share with family with.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That very one, and you could also leave us a
five star review. If you don't enjoy the show, please
keep it to yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You have anything nice to say, don't see anything at all.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
So what's on the agenda for today?
Speaker 3 (03:12):
About today?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Vid Today we go back to the mid eighteen hundreds
to meet a woman who became known as the Bandit Queen.
Born in Carthage, Missouri, she went on to become a
bandit and ne'er do well and a bit of a legend.
In this Welcome to the Wild West, who says women
can't do whatever they want? Episode of the Family Plot podcast.
(03:38):
Yeah here we go. So Myra may Bell Bell Shirley
was born on February fifth, eighteen forty eight, on her
father's farm near Carthage, Missouri. She was born to John Shirley,
who was a black sheet from a well to do
(04:00):
Virginia family. Once he settled down in Carthage, he ran
a livery stable, which is a place where you keep
horses to rent out. I did not know that's what
a livery stable was. No, that's what.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Delivery all of your years of D and D. And
you didn't know that's what a.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Livery stable was.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
No. Cool, my people, my character's own horses, they never
rent them.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Well, now you know something new to throw out in
your next campaign.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
There we go.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And he also owned a blacksmith shop, both located on
the town square. He would later open an inn as well.
When she was little, most people called Maybell May which
may be see what I did there, why she chose
to change it later. Her fire father had been married
(04:48):
three times, but his current wife was Elizabeth Eliza Hatfield Shirley,
and yes, she was a distant relative of the family
that family famously feuded with the McCoys.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Was one things for answering that questions, like you were
reading my mind before you even said it.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
She had several brothers and the only sister. And the
only sister born to her parents. Though John would father
girls with his previous wives, none of whom would come
to be friends with one of whom would come to
be friends of a sort with Maybell. But her brothers
were all a bit wild and grow up to become
criminal or live on the fringes of the law. May
(05:26):
herself was given a classical education and taught piano at
the Carthage Female Academy, a school her father helped to found.
That being said, Maybell had her own wild side. The
teacher of her class, Missus Poole, thought may of Maya
is rather wild, and we know may ditched her studies
fairly regularly. You know, girls got to do what a
(05:50):
girl's got to do, and so apparently do boys. For example,
this boy has a corner that we should let him
take it and take on.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Okay, we've had over Arthur's corner.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Here ye, here, ye, allow me to present Arthur's corner.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to my corner. I'm Arthur.
If you don't remember that somehow, welcome back to my paper.
Welcome to my corner. If this is the first episode,
you're listening to, so many good episodes, but this one's
really good too, so we no, it's never we hope
(06:46):
it's always a good we know. Okay, how are you today, Arthur?
I'm I'm doing well.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
We're doing well. You have a cuply giddy on your lap.
Even your kitty it's another kitty. No, it's another cat,
which is your kidy?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Okay, I haven't seen him today. He's good, he's yeah.
He's always hanging out either in my window, somewhere in
my room, or.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
All about your room.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Now.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Oh yeah, you guys have been you guys had your
room redo and he's been up your tiny and around
the corner.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Oh yeah. And his voice. You know how much that
cat has been using his voice?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I heard him. Yeah, he's been used very verbal.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
He's been very verbal, very verbal. Usually for those of
you that don't know my cat, Thunder is very small
rount cat. And I don't think this has anything to
do with it, but he his voice is very it's
it's it's not very often that he uses it.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, and he's actually kind of the owls silently, like
he opens his mouth but nothing comes out.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Like he whispered, me ows. And then recently he's found
out that, oh I can actually use my voice wow.
And now he's just been like, okay, sir, I hear you,
but what do you want?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
He's become Mawley yet not demonstrative, not demonstrative to show
you what he actually needs.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't show you. He just kind of.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Hollers at you.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, I see.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
That sounds like it could be frustrating for sure.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Not really. He just kind of just makes noise to
make noise. Now, so whenever he does make noise, I'm
just like, okay, dude, why not.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I didn't take my meds to mom, realizing matter work
in the afternoon.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Well how about you take those morning meds on board,
and then you know.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
She has to take her nightments.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
She can take her name man.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
When I get ready to go to bed.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
He's not wrong.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I I had thought this true. I had a plant.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
They're lemonade colors. It is it lemonade colors. I'm saying
that because I just made myself under glass of lemonade.
I think lemonade women.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yes, but your mother is both sweet and a little
spicy like lemonade, so no spicy.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Yeah. Well, he didn't want to call me sour.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He's trying to make sure he stays on my good
side because he likes to sleep in his bed.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
That and I was trying to figure out a way
to turn that into a compliment.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I love you too. That's the whole reason I like you.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Know sour reminds me of Sass.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Well, that's why he was saying spicy, because Sassy is spicy, tangy.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I mean, look, I was going to open the show
with my best attempt at a Elvis impersonation, and your
mom was quick to shut that down.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, it was it was too country.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So it was too country, could never be too country.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
My bad boy of comedy just doesn't do country.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Did I ask how how you guys are? You didn't?
That's my asshouse? How are you guys?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
What the heck? Man?
Speaker 3 (10:30):
You're just a little, a little off you're getting today,
Arthur day.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
How let's start with mom? How are you beautiful? Other
than I'm okay?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
She because we haven't we had we've been fighting the
fleas damn it.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Time and the fleas be fighting because Blue has boyfriend
that has dogs. Yep. M and Madam and.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I I have been a busy, busy kid.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
You have of you, You've been like You've been like
spitballing with other other people about stuff and things and
working on writing ideas.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And research and all kinds of good stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You Yeah, well, okay, I I am planning a bit
of speculative fiction about the new Madrid seismic zone uh
erupting or breaking or whatever it is. Do you do
when the it results in an earthquake, which would be
much more devastating than anything in California. I found out
(11:45):
why because California there's no real big rocks under the state.
Mostly they were all broken upello. We have tons of
big rocks under us now. If the fault goes, we'll
feel it here in Kansas City, but we won't suffer
much devastation at all, not unless it's a huge earthquake.
(12:07):
But Saint Louis, Memphis, oh, those cities, and the devastation
will be widespread. So yeah, so I'm working on that. Plus,
I started writing a piece about a zombie virus uncovered
in the thawing Antarctic that that infiltrates or gets in
(12:32):
some Antarctic researchers during an Antarctic winter.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Oh boy, oh wow, that sounds like fun or something.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
It's gonna be fun to write. I doubt it would
be fun for any of the imaginary people involved there.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that just sounds more like eternal suffering
to me.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Well, there are already eternals eternally suffering their figments of
my imagination.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
Oh wow, that's a scary place to hang out. So
let's see recently, recently we got our two new beds
put together. A yeah, well that's cool. Yeah, I got
a dinosaur bed sheet.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yes, you've got dinosaur bedding, you got dinosaur betterans and
anything else? I don't know. I'm thinking, Okay, how we
talk about secret of the mimic on here yet?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
What the heck is that?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
I would say, that's a no, because we're not even
sure what that is. Okay, So the secret of a
mimic or secret of mimic is uh is a game
that Steel Wool made, Okay, and it's it's like five
minutes of Preddies, but it's been changed quite a bit. Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And when you say mimic, are we talking like D
and D mimic or.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Some something else.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Okay. It's basically just this indoskeleton that was made to
copy the way the creator of the machines did things
interesting and like.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
He was.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Or not he but the Mimic or the Indo Skeleton
was the backup for Edwin. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
Okay, and Edwin, I'm pretty sure died or something. So
this is like a spin off of Five Nights at Friday's.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
It's it's five Nights of Fridays. It's made by the
people who own Five Nights at Friday's made old.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So it's.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
So it's a spin off of Five Nights of Fridays.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, okay, yeah, someone okay like Sister Location but cooler.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, yeah, i'd say so.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Works.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I don't like Sister Location about the guys.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I don't know anything about it other than it exists,
So I don't know enough to like it or hate it.
But if my Arthur doesn't like it, then I am
mad at it.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
It's just not half as good as the first few
or the most recent ones Security Breach and uh, Secret
of Mimic or whenever. But I really like Secret of Mimic.
A lot of people had negative emotions about it, but
I really like how it turned out, and I really
like the changes they're making with the game.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
It's in no way, it's in no way a Bad Game.
It definitely has changed a lot since the first game,
but it's still got a little bit of the same
spark to it because animatronics and right like, you're trying
to find out puzzles and you have to run for
(16:14):
vandamatronics and.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
It's very It's somewhat similar to UH Security Breach, but
it's also somewhat similar to some other games because it
has some aspects that were like incorporated into it that
makes it also kind of feel like its own game. Cool.
(16:40):
So that's fun. That's been my hyperfocusation recently. Awesome, let's
see going back to school soon? Yes, not school school.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I hope I got to look into that.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
This week's been a little rough though. We went to
More Fields yesterday.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
We love More Fields. They don't even sponsor the show,
but I will say we love More Fields. Two.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Well, they're they're just a little mom and pop shop
and they don't want too much too much media. They're
just kind of there and they do their thing.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Well, I wasn't saying it's a negative. I'm just saying
I would promote. I promote them without any financial recompense.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
They're they're they're When I offered they were like, no,
we're we're good, so more tuberful. I know, it's it's
time that it gets ah, it's time that it gets
a new home in the trash can and I get
something else.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
But not today.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I was going to say, we're we're ready for I
think I'm almost ready for Halloween?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Oh are we?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
It's your table, put on what you want. But I'm
just saying we got a creepy vibe in this family.
Sometimes we should embrace it. Although, you know, make it goth,
make it god. I was gonna say, although you embrace
the goth fairy thing too, so you know so so
butterflies are fine, Well.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Butterflies is dying.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
That's that's yeah, there's just giant butterflies don't live that long.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
No they don't.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
You're right, it's ally parton. You will be remembered. Slash Jay.
I think she's still here.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
You know she is.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Mazzy.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Osbourne died yesterday though, which is amazing because all the
drugs he's done, I thought nothing would kill him.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I just figured he was living on borrow time. But
you know, he was lived a pretty impressive life. And
like I was telling Arthur Or yesterday, I think he
even performed like as recently.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
As a month ago or something.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, he made his final performance like a month ago.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, I see the one who's like bit off the
head of that.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yes, absolutely, I thought they called him the Prince of
Darkness or something.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yep, well, the Blizzard of Oz. I mean, yeah, he
had lots of nicknames. But I okay. There's a movie
called Feast. It was produced by Ben Affleck and Matt
Damon as part of their project today green Lights horror movie.
But Jason Muse is in it, uh, the guy that
(19:42):
played Jay Jay and Silence. Right anyway, at the beginning
of the movie, they introduce all their characters and you know,
tell you how long they've lived, and in some cases
they're like, won't make it through the movie or whatever.
When they get to Jason Muse, they him as Jason
Muse and already living far longer than he should have.
(20:07):
And that's sort of Ozzy right there. That's Ozzy in
a nutsheb Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I mean every time I've seen in the last five years,
I've been like, he's still alive. Well, I know I
know that he I'm sure. Okay, I feel terrible because
I've always thought that Sharon Osborne and even their kids
were absolutely amazing. They did a lot of positive things
(20:32):
in the world. I'm not dissing Ozzy Osbourne, and I'm
sure that his grandchildren and his children and his wife
miss him terribly. Not trying to make light of his passing.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
I'm not either. I just thought the guy was At
one point I was his biggest fan. When I was
in high school. I was Ozzy all the way. Oh
my god, I have a leather well not a leather,
but I have a trench coat somewhere with Ozzy on
there that I did my best to do the big
o Z's with the little things through them, tried to
(21:09):
do his name as gothy as he did. And yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
A fan.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I'm a fan even like the last project I watched
by Jack Osbourne was him showing videos to his mom
and dad. Yeah, and they would weigh in on whether
they thought it was a real thing or not a
real thing, and as well, and one of my favorite
(21:39):
moments on there was apparently a house they lived in
like their summer home. It caught fires and Jack was
talking about, well, that was a pretty mysterious fire, and
Ozzy was like, no, it's not because she likes candles
but is not real good with But I'm taking up
(22:02):
Arthur's corner.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I'm sorry. Cuddly.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, he's got someone holding him. He's thrilled.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Baby.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
He will put his face.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Is a baby.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
He's a big baby.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
He will put his face right in your baby, in
the crook of your elbow so the light doesn't bug
him and he will.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
See he's a big furry baby.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Anyway, Arthur, I interrupted your corner. I am so sorry, son,
You're fine.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I'm trying to remember songs that I listened to for
ausi Aboard, because I know I've listened to Ausio.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Oh God, there's so many No More Tears that Prince
of Darkness.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Don't go listen. I think I House from Blue God.
That's not where that books. There's something else.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Aleister Crowley, he wrote that mister Crowell was the name
of that song, actually, mister Crowley h And that was
on the Blizzard of Oz CD or album.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I don't want to sound really stupid. If you cut
if I say, it will sound really stupid, will you
cut me out?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
No More Tears.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
No More Tears is debt YEP. That was off of
the Ultimate Sin, which itself is a good song.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And then I think it's like Dragula.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Or Dragula's Rob Zombie.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
You can come me on on that one.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I'm not gonna brought you. Don't sound stupid. Rob Zombie
is awesome.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
He's good. I was just trying to think of Ozzy Osbourne.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I love his music. I like his movies. Your mom
not a fan? Yeah, not a fan at all. I
could invite her to watch House of a Thousand Corpses
and she would die.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Let me hear you scream soul sucker life, won't wait?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Oh, mom's looking looking at look up, Mom busting out
the internet to look up. Ozzie sounds beautiful.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
His biggest hit is considered to be Crazy Trained.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Crazy Train is of course, Mom.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I'm coming home. Ye, no more tears, So.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Ozzie a great We did lots of things for the
world of music. He will be missed and remembered.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, our buddy Dale is deep in morning.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Absolutely, I'm sure, because he definitely did amazing things at
music and add a long, illustrious career and expounded on
the abilities of the human body, and.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
He and did drugs for a while, like it was
his job and.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Drunk and everything else. Yes, anything else, buddy, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I can think of something.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Okay, might have Pete on stage at the Alamo or something.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Wow, I didn't need to hear that one. I totally
love you, mom, It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Out Dad.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Would you get to totally love Dad?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
No? No, no, that wasn't a thing. I've been playing
Dandy's World a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
You playing Dandy's World?
Speaker 3 (25:49):
No? No, yeah, yeah, I've been. I got almost I
have almost all the mains in the game, meaning I
have almost every tune. Oh took a lot of grinding.
I have Astro, I have astro no pebble?
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Do you have Goob?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I do have Goob?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I love good And you have a good t shirt
I've seen I do.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I've worn that actually kind of recently, I think.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
And I like this tattoo you've drawn on yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Thank you. I have to get it for realsies, wonder
astro pebble en vy. I do have YadA.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
There you go. What about nada?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
No nada, there's no nada in the game. Well, that's
weird unless you're talking about people who just like speak
Spanish to nada. You know, you probably could use that.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
As a drumstick, probably.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Lexi said it was just too thin for a drumstick. Really,
I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Kind of the end is if you're playing heavy metal,
Oh yeah, that'll.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Break, that'll snap instant.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
But like you know, little lightelophone, little light jazz or xylophone, Yeah, Woodburg, Cruz,
the xylophone one of the rare words that begins with X.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
What doesn't our xylophone and the x ray.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Oh, there's a few others, zun and Tunic. Oh, it's
the name of the city. We've talked about it on
the show The City of the Ghost Woman.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I think I'm sorry, I'm sorry my memory is but
but yeah, the is based off those signs. I can't
remember what they're called.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Selon. Yeah, yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Usually take them like in like a more somewhat discrete
design or like just design it better because there's nothing
wrong with how you did it. I like it.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I like it too, and I knew it was a
semi colon. I like the semi colon as a tattoo
because someone explained to me what it means. Yep, it
means you've been through a rough hatch and you might
have considered taking your own life, or you.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Might have tried taking your own life, but you still.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Went on exactly, So it was a pause, not a stop,
right and Nate. It encourages others not to stop, but
maybe to pause. Yes, and I like that message. That's
a good message, that keep living message. That's great. So
so I I am. I approve my.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Son on Miko has the same same coleon on his thigh.
Speaker 6 (29:08):
I've see's part of the reason I want to get
it tattooed.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Gotcha anything else is I'm just about to say no,
that's that's probably it.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Okay, let's put in some claps here and then Arthur,
you want to take this next section? If like I
get this thing down, I'll take him. I don't think
he doesn't want down. He wants love. That's what him wants.
Come here, buddy, baby.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
He's a big baby, big baby.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Look, she sheds almost as much as my cat does.
He's very hairy.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
He's a chunky monkey.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
It's a big baby. Now, I don't look like I
took him, not like I'm anyways. Now, as we mentioned
in our Jesse James episode, is that a bogey mom?
No friends that was Me episode. If you're interested, check
(30:17):
it out. Will wait. Missouri was in most places beyond
owning slaves. Curiously, however, the Shirleys were considered basically commoners
because they didn't own slaves. Carthage, like Missouri, was a
place of both Southern gentility and Southern sympathies. On July fifth,
(30:43):
eighteen sixty one, one of the earliest engagements of the
Civil War battle and the battle is dubbed the Battle
of Carthage. After the town that was pretty well destroyed. Ow,
I'm sorry for that town, Carthage becomes home to a
(31:06):
pitched battle between Union and Confederate troops. Oh boy, Eliza
and John's oldest boy, John Allen Budd Shirley joined the
Confederate because possibly signing up with Tranquil Raiders. We discussed
them in the Jesse James Allen Trills Sorry well, okay,
(31:29):
juand Trill's Raiders. We discussed them in the Jesse James episode,
as well as our episode about the old Jackson County
Jail episode fifteen. If you're curious, I swear some of
these we just need to redo. Maybe episode fifteen was
so long ago, Gus. We did an update of Sharon Kenny.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, but nothing's changed about the Jackson County jail.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah. Sorry, I woke up to a bunch of heavy
loud machinery. This boy.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, that was fun.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
We know.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
He was a bushwhacker for all the Confederates, an old
term for guerrilla.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Gorilla, like the animal. Oh it's pronounced like the animal gorilla.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I don't like that fighter who usually attacked foes from
a hiding place.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Oh did they do.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
That little army crawl thing? Yes, beautiful. In eighteen sixty four,
Bud was killed by Union troops, and John Shirley, conflicted
over the war and sikh at heart over what he
saw over what he saw as the political killing of
(32:53):
his son, sold his business and consolidated everything he owned
into two Sanstanoga though Conestoga Countistoga wagons and fled to
sign Sien Sien. I think Cyene, Texas. That sounds like
(33:16):
a spicy pepper, but okay, which was a Confederate Confederate
stronghold at the time. Maybell was sixteen when Bud died.
Some people like to ignore the fact that Maybell had
a wild streak of her own and possibly acted as
a spy for Bud and his associates. It's a theory
with little proof to back it up, and almost certainly
(33:40):
acted as a spy for the Bushwhackers after Bud's death.
These people like to point out the event of of
losing Bud after her changes. Losing Bud changed her from
(34:01):
one picture of Southern geniality gentility. But I said that
right the first time. I don't know what's wrong with you,
daddy to a hard to a hardened survivor who even
drove off, drove one of the wagons to sayin But
(34:24):
as I said, that ignores her on wild Streak.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
So let's take a moment and hear from some of
our fellow content creators.
Speaker 7 (34:35):
Just wait until father gets hold. Those words chilled us
all as a child, Now they can thrill us as adults.
My name is Dan B. Fierce, author of the book
Father Figure, suspenseful tales of Fatherhood. The calloused hands of
fear will wrap around the mind in this roller coaster
(34:57):
collection of extreme gory and psychological short stories and flash fiction.
Get your copy of Father Figure today at danbfiercebooks dot com.
Speaker 8 (35:11):
They rule the streets. They take what they want and
it over street meets before we make you dead meats,
and you'll have to deal with them if you want
to make it through the night. If Ashley wants to survive,
(35:35):
she'll need to fight on their turf. She'll have to
fight dirty, stop struggling, and she'll have to pick them
off one by one if she hopes to make it
through the night. Make It Through the Night, the savage
(35:59):
novel of revenge and violence on the Streets by Amy Koto,
available now from Amazon dot com. Find more by author
Amy Koto by visiting TV Fanatic dot blog or on
Twitter at TV Underscore Fanatic Underscore Girl. Make It Through
the Night by Amy Coto. Her Night from Hell has
(36:21):
only just begun.
Speaker 9 (36:31):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Well, that was awesome.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
We'd love to hear from our indie author friends.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yep, your uncle Dan doing well?
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Could be good? Love that for her, Yes, we shared it.
We miss him.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
I don't know, I do.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
So.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
As a young teengirl, Maybell constantly read about the James
Younger Game and their exploits. She also began to act
as a spy for the Bushwhackers while her brothers had
their own issues with the law. Her brothers would all
meet bad or at least undeterminate ends. Edwin Shirley became
(37:16):
a horse thief and was shot dead in the act
of stealing a horse. He was sixteen at this time,
and May would have been about eighteen when she was nineteen.
Younger brother, Mansfield Shirley likely died in a shootout with
law enforcement. I say likely because no accounts of the
(37:37):
incident survived this day, and he was listed as being
alive in the census three years later.
Speaker 10 (37:46):
However, it is not uncommon to borrow identities. It was
not uncommon to borrow identities in that day and age,
and most sources agree about the shootout and Mansfield's death.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Isn't un common today either. Do you see dating apps?
Do you see how many catfish there are?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
There? You go? According to a slave they acquired in
How do we say that Celene.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Silen Silen Selene would probably better named Aunt Annie.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
In an interview given in eighteen ninety four, Annie said
that Eliza Shirley had not seen her son Cravens aka
Doc in many years and believed he was dead. We
have no timeline for when this might have happened. Somewhere
during this time, May would learn to shoot and earned
(38:38):
a reputation as a crack shot. She would also meet and,
according to county records, Mary James a reed. She had
begun calling herself Belle. Around this time, she would also
meet the members of the James Younger Gang. She would
famously dress in a black velvet us a hat with
(39:01):
an ostrich feather, and ride's side saddle while firing two
pistols with her deadly effectiveness. While in Texas, Bell had
her first child, a daughter that the couple named Rosie Lee,
though they would call her Pearl. At some point, James
(39:24):
became wanted for a murder in Arkansas, and so the
couple would move to California, where Bell would give birth
to their to their son, James Edwin, whom they called Hetty.
They would return to Texas, where James would try his
hand at farming, but eventually got back into criminal ways
(39:46):
by hanging with the Star Clan, a Cherokee family living
in what was then dubbed Indian Territory but would eventually
become the state of Oklahoma. It was he who would
eventually introduce Bell to Sam Star, the clans leader. In
(40:08):
eighteen seventy four, James was confronted by Texas lawman in Paris, Texas,
and a shootout would ensue that would end James's life.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well, now let's take a moment for a word from
our sponsors.
Speaker 9 (40:38):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Baby, you want to take this next part for us?
Speaker 1 (40:42):
I was planning on it. So let's address a silly
rumor and let's get to know Sam Starr a little bit.
According to some Bell was briefly married a marriage supposedly
lasting around three weeks, to Charles Younger. Wow.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Definite, that is definitely a brief marriage.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
She was briefly supposedly married to Charles Younger, the uncle
of Cole Younger. According to other tales, Bell had relations
with Cole Younger, which is what actually led to the
birth of Pearl. In Cole Younger's biography, however, which was
quoted later in Glenn Shirley's Bell Starr and Her Times,
(41:23):
this was dubbed.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Bunk bs as we say in these here days.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah, still, it does make its way into modern sources,
as unlikely as it is, and some of this may
be because in later years Pearl Star would use the
name Pearl Younger. It may also be because the writers
of newspaper articles and fictional accounts felt the younger Star
romance too juicy to resist. Now, before we discuss the
(41:55):
marriage of Bell and Sam, we must provide a little
history of Sam Starr. Sam Starr was a Cherokee native,
the son of a famed Cherokee warrior and whiskey runner,
Tom Starr. Sam had grown up making a living on
the other side of the law and was a friend
of the Jans Younger gang who often hold up in
his place. They hold up there so often it was
(42:17):
often called Younger's Bend. This was located near the Canadian
River in modern day Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Awesome, So let's take a second word from our sponsor.
Speaker 9 (42:40):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
All right.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
I get to tuck the down and dirty, spicy stuff
of it all when Bell. When Sam met Bell, he
was impressed with her sense of style, her passion, and
her ability to shoot.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Usually that.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
However, she she knew very little about being a criminal. Sam.
Because thanks to Sam's Sam knew a lot about criminality,
and he began to educate the Fiery Belt. Belle would
learn how to organize criminals, whether they be livestock wrestlers,
(43:22):
horse thieves or bootleggers. She also knew how to plan
jobs for them and became an expert in fencing their
ill gotten gains. She made so much money doing this
that she was able to pay the courts to release
her men the few times they were actually caught. This
(43:45):
is when she began to earn the nickname the bandit Queen.
On June fifth, eighteen eighty she married Sam and became
almost literally a queen. Younger's Bend was also known to
harbor re fuseda tips the James Younger gang would hide
(44:06):
out here often, as would other less famous criminals. In
an interview with the Dallas Morning News in eighteen eighty six,
Bell said she was a friend to any bait, brave
and gallant outlaws prior to that. In eighteen eighty two,
(44:26):
she and Sam were arrest were arrested on warrants for
horse theft and taken to Fort Smith Arkanstraw, where they
were tried by the famed hanging judge Isaac Parker. Sam
and Bell were both set to jail. Sam would of
course make trouble in jail and was eventually put to
(44:49):
hard labor. Bell, on the other hand, imprisoned in jail
in Detroit, would be a model prisoner and impress the
jail's matron. Later, some lawmen would try to say she
was a wildcat in prison, but this is not born
out of the historical record. In eighteen eighty six, she
(45:12):
would be arrested again for horse thievery. However, she would
be acquitted on this charge. Later the same year, Sam
got in a shootout with his cousin, an officer of
the law named Frank West. Sam would die in the
shootout and the happiest period of her life would come
to an end. Curiously, due to her marriage to Sam,
(45:35):
she would become the aunt of Henry Star, a man
who would go on to become something of a silent
film star.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
And now we shall take another word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Remember that if you don't like to take pauses for
the sponsors, if you become a one or three dollars
Patreon subscriber, you can do away with those sponsor ads
and get your episodes before anybody else.
Speaker 9 (46:15):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
And welcome back. We very much enjoy our sponsors. Thank
you for sponsoring. Yes, but let's remember that if you
get the three dollars Patreon. You can now hear me
go wild.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yes, Arthur's gone wild.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
I've gone wild good times. Yeah, you were hiding under
your covers. You know you were scared a little bit.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
You take after me. When you get mad, you get asked.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
See.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Here's the thing. Here's the thing. I don't get mad
very often anymore. Yeah, but we're not.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Getting mad mad.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
I'm like a mixture of you and him putting scary.
It's a leg scary, frightening. In the final years of
her life, Bell Star became a frequent target of scandal sheets,
which linked to her parade, linked her to a parade
(47:20):
of colorfully named criminals. These publications thrived on gossip and sensationalism,
often blurring the line between between fact and fiction. While
some of her associations were real, many exaggerated or entirely
fabricated to feed the public's appetite for outlaw drama. Her
(47:46):
most pressing challenge, however, was legal, not criminal. Younger's Bend,
the land where she called home was part of Cherokee
Nation Nation territory. As a white woman, Bell could not
legally own property there. Jinder may have compounded the issue
(48:10):
as to women's property rights were still evolving in the
late nineteenth century. Took a long time dude yees to
secure her place at Younger Bins. After Sam Starr's death,
Belle into a marriage with Jim July Star, Sam's adopted son.
(48:31):
I'm sorry, yep, I'm sorry. No, yes, excuse my French.
But what the okay?
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Well read the next line.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
What the didn't okay? Most historians agree this was a
strategy strategic union, likely intended to preserve her residency and
maintain her claim to the land under Cherokee said custom Yeah,
I really don't care. Yeah, it's kind of somebody else,
(49:05):
find somebody else.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Why what.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
It's you know, you had.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
To do what you had to do.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
And it's not like he was Sam's son by birth.
He was adopted.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Yeah, I do, I do not care. Arthur's finking out.
Who doesn't make it any better? Nope, Nope, that was
still his son, adopted or not.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Well, let's talk about Bell's murder shock Shock. She was murdered.
Bell was riding home from visiting a neighbor on February third,
eighteen eighty nine, when she was shot in the back.
The killer used a double barreled shotgun, and legends say
it was one that actually belonged to bell. He or
she loaded it with buckshot and turkey shot. It struck
(49:54):
her in the back and arm, knocking her off her horse.
The killer then climbed the fence shot her again in
the face and shoulder. One shot that was the spray.
It hit not he didn't fire to work. Yeah, no,
I got you, and from there simply vanished. The case
is still officially unsolved, however, there are many sub suspects.
(50:17):
One is Jim July Star, whose relationship with Belle after
their marriage was stormy at best. It is believed he
offered two hundred dollars for her murder, roughly equivalent to
almost seven thousand dollars to day, still not a.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Lot considering that they had a lot a.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Lot of money. Another suspect is her son, Eddie Reid,
who had a history of conflict with Belle, and there
are rumors she abused him. The legend goes he killed
her after receiving a whipping. Another suspect is neighbor Edgar Watson,
who had what police believed to be the murder weapon.
(50:58):
He was arrested but never charged. Ar Still. Another suspect
is High Early, a neighbor who had accused her of
horse left and who had been shot at by Bell,
because by this point in her life, Bell was quick
to shoot at you, sure like you would be. Others
point to Jim Middleton, who claimed he had killed Bell
when he was on his deathbed in nineteen thirty nine
(51:20):
because he believed she had had a hand in his
brother's death. Other historians blamed Tom Starr, Sam Starr's father,
who believed that Sam had died because of Belle. After
her death, he was fond of saying she'd never cause
another death. Some claim a neighbor named Bertholf did the deed,
paid to kill her by Heart High Earlier, perhaps Jim
(51:44):
July Star Still. Another suspect was James Reed's brother, who
felt that Belle had a hand in her brother's death.
I see still. Others claimed that she had attended a
dance where she had inadvertently upset someone by declarined, aiming
their offer for a dance. Other tales attest to these
to those somehow injured by her performing the murder. There
(52:07):
are so many suspects no one can name them all.
Pearl Star Bell's daughter covered her grave with a sandstone
cap to keep treasure hunters and memento seekers away from it.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
So let's pause here for our very final words from
our sponsors.
Speaker 9 (52:37):
It was time to get back to the show.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Some additional information about Bell's family. Bell's children, Eddie and Pearl,
went on to have interesting lives of their own. Young
Eddie would be arrested for horse thievery. There's a lot
of stealing horses back then. Pearl would eventually turn to
prostitution to raise money to get him out. Further campaigned
(53:01):
until he received a pardon for his crimes. Afterwards, he
joined the police in Oklahoma, caught two dangerous criminals, and
later died in a shootout. After her death, Bell was
largely unknown outside of Texas, but a fictional book about her,
(53:21):
entitled Bell Star, the Bandit Queen or the Female Jesse
James became.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Excuse me, sorry, bless you.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
You're fine, im massively popular after her death, and that
is what brought her name to the attention of most people.
Prl would capitalize on this notoriety by adopting her mother's
last name of Star and opening a brothel in Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
She would open a.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Second in Van Buren, Arkansas, and a third in be Arizona.
She would adopt the style and mannerisms of the now
famous mother of her now famous mother to run these
brothels until around the time of.
Speaker 3 (54:11):
The First World War. Legacy Bell has appeared played by
Gene Tyrny Tiny Tyranny okay in nineteen forty one's Bell Star,
a movie depicting Bell as a Southern Bell as a
(54:34):
Southern repeat of Bell Ye it will become, will becomes?
And and outlaw? Is it an eltwa? Or so just
supposed to be an an outlaw? Nineteen forty eight saw
Hollywood open a low budget odor called Bell Star, The
(54:57):
Bandit Queen nineteen forty four, Legend of the Fall ninety four.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
I said nineteen ninety four, You said nineteen forty four, I.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Said, nineteen ninety Four's okay anyway. Nineteen ninety four's Legend
of the Fall depicts Susannah as a character as a
character similar to Belle, caught between love, violence, and a myth. Also,
many of Deadwood's female character will character characters Okay, that's
(55:32):
what I thought. Characters were partially inspired by Belle and
or her tale. In the books good. I'm sick some
like Moses stuff and I'm mad about it. Glynnon Shirley's
Bell Star and Her Time attempt to dig into the
(55:53):
truths about Belle and ignore the fictions and fabrications. Michael
Wallace Bell Star. That's okay, I do this. Michael Wallace's
Bell Star. The truth behind the.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
You're fine wild West legend. I know, sir, I'm just
I know. I was just saying, that's where you should
pick it up.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
The wild West legend also attempts to find the real
Bell buried underneath the half truths, exaggerations and fictions about
the Bandit Queen. About the Bandit Queen. There are other
books that examined her cultural impact and tuns where she
(56:49):
is used as a fictional character. She appears in Red Dead,
Redemption Red I'm never talking again after this Red Dead
Redemption and I've heard of that. Gosh, you have to
make me use my Pressy little Girl boys who as
Black Bell and Woody Guthrie. Guthrie Okay wrote a song
(57:16):
called Bell Star that romanticizes her life. I'm not Arthur says,
He's them.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
You're all right, buddy, you made it through High five
that you're good, bud. Okay, So it's time for our
summer and our final thoughts.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
I think I I'm opening this week.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
I believe so sounds good. Anybody can open as longan
this this moment.
Speaker 1 (57:48):
I like Belle. I like her a lot. I think
she was a strong woman at a time when it
was not easy for women to be strong. Did she
do some thing that had I been around at the time,
I would have said, maybe don't Yeah, Oh yeah, she
did a lot of things I would have said at
(58:08):
the time, maybe don't do that, maybe that would do that.
But overall, and while I'm not thrilled at her choice
to marry her adopted son, how else was she going
to keep her laying? How else she was she going
to stay there because the government wasn't cool on well,
(58:30):
we'll let you get away with it.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
Yes, they just take shit.
Speaker 1 (58:34):
So, I mean, we've heard that over and over again.
I mean.
Speaker 3 (58:39):
So, and.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
Judging from you know how often Jim july Star's name
comes up as a suspect in her murder, I have
to imagine that the marriage was likely in name only,
and Jim was not thrilled about that. I think Jim
might have wanted more.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
Oh creepy.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
Yeah, see that party's creepy.
Speaker 3 (59:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:10):
But I like her, I do, I understand her. I'm
not thrilled at what I mean.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
I think she was like the quintessential original wild West
boss bet Be.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:25):
She like she was what we see as a botch
boss be nowadays. Yeah, I feel like she would have
been had she lived in a different time, she would
have been a capital of business. She would have been
rocking the world and making her claim in it.
Speaker 1 (59:43):
Yeah. I'm not thrilled at her family's views on slavery
or slaves, views that I don't know if she continued
the rest of her life. She certainly didn't balk at
marrying an indigenous American. Yeah, so, I mean she she
wasn't completely deep in in racism. She certainly wasn't all white,
(01:00:09):
and so perhaps she can be kind of forgiven if
if she, you know, felt flax were inferior. That was
common feeling at the time, even though it wasn't true.
But Yeah, overall, I like her. I think overall she's
an interesting character. Definitely, I like her a lot better
than Sharon Kenny.
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Well, that doesn't take much.
Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Always why wouldn't you like her? Oh oh, and I'm
even gonna talk about Sharon Kitty right now there.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Because she killed a lot of people same as Sharon
Kenny did.
Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
She didn't get in trouble for murder.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
She didn't kill a lot of people, I don't think.
Are we talk about her killing a lot of people
price for stealing horses supposedly, and that was after she
got rich and famous and.
Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Yeah, okay, but we know that she was a crack shot,
and we know that she engaged in robberies. She was
just never caught.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Yeah, So I have to suspect that she ended a
few lives riding side saddle and being a crack shot
with those pistols.
Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Maybe.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I don't know. I was just sitting on the thought
that she was a boss b I think she kind
of she kind of had to be, like she would
be like the Dawn, like she could have run her
own like mafia. It sounds like like she was one
of the first. She was putting it out there like
her and the Sicilians.
Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
She was. She could have taught them a thing or two.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
I think definitely she was a smart, smart lady.
Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Yeah, and she learned a lot from ants.
Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
I think she has. She has a lot of a
lot in common with the pirate queens.
Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
That we talked about.
Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Yep, yeah, she definitely does.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
So that's my final thought. I just think that she
was you know, she lived the life that she lived,
but I think that she was pretty incredible given her
given her life a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Are there you got any final thoughts? Absolutely? Not? No,
not after that.
Speaker 9 (01:02:28):
Not not after.
Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
That, He says, No, Paul, I have to say, is
uh go on girl Boss? I guess on girl Boss,
my friend hands on at the end of the show. No,
he'll have to censor one thing. Oh that poor that
(01:02:54):
poor Li was gonna have to pull out the censor.
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
I would have called her a boss and you the
actual word.
Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
But that's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Well that seems so. We are agreed then that all,
while she did some things that none of us entirely like,
we overall like her very much.
Speaker 11 (01:03:14):
I mean, she she lived her life. She wasn't too
bad or are we the judge? She wasn't half as
bad as that as ye as one of our.
Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
As Arthur's lesser favorite peoples.
Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Well, and part of that too is Sharon Kinney had
no morals whatsoever. She I'm gonna have to beat myself.
She sat it around quite a bit. Bell doesn't seem
to her. Bell seems to have gotten in relationships and
stayed in the English part.
Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
And I again, I think it's how much of those
relationships were the requirement of the time that she lived
in kind of thing well like, because as I would
imagine that even outside of the legal ramifications, there was
something to be said for, especially as someone who was
(01:04:12):
working with the criminal element, to have a man by
her side.
Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Yeah. No, but like the only time she's accused of
adultery are in the scandal sheets, and these are the
same sheets that years later were linking her with these
colorful outlaws, Like there was one named Blue Duck that yeah,
(01:04:40):
she took a picture with the guy, but we have
no historical evidence that she did more than that, gotcha.
And at that point outlaws who knew her would come
to meet her because she was kind of legendary at
least in Texas. So yeah, a lot of Texas outlaws. Yeah,
(01:05:02):
but that doesn't mean she was having a relationship with them.
And the relationships we know we had, she seems to
have been faithful. James Reed Star Sam Starr. Okay, her relationship,
her relationship to Jim Starr. Maybe she was sleeping around there,
(01:05:25):
but she didn't marry Jim Starr for her love. She
married him to keep her home. Yeah. So and if
she hadn't had to do that, I don't think she
would have done it. Yeah, probably not so Yeah, I
mean she seems to have been like she seems seems
to have been stable in her relationships for the most part.
(01:05:46):
So yeah, and that's our show. Thanks for listening, Thanks
for keeping us in the good pods. Top one hundred,
Thanks for being members of the fam. We love all
of you. Excuse me. Thanks to Blue Lexi, Laura and
(01:06:07):
Arper Hey Arfer. Thanks to Bill Barrant, the guy that
does our theme music. His last name is b E
h R E n d T. Bill. Get well soon.
I know he's home now from his surgery, but he's
still not doing perfectly, So get well soon, Bill. Bill
is a musician. If you need music for a project
(01:06:29):
or need someone to perform an event, he's your guy.
You can reach him at Bill Barrant at SBC global
dot net. Thanks to Paige Elmore of the Reverie Crime podcast,
who has combined her love of Canva with our own
Arthur's artwork for some logo art for a few episodes.
Thank you Paige, Thank you Page. Thanks to Aaron Gunnerk
(01:06:50):
of The Big Dumb Fun Show who continues to support
us locally. Join us next week as we look into
the murder of Ricky McCormick B
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