December 17, 2025 • 23 mins
Join Paul Barron on Fast Casual Nation as he sits down with Jeff Chandler, CEO of Hopdoddy Burger Bar, to discuss how the Austin-based brand is winning in the crowded burger category with 50 locations and 2% traffic growth. Discover their hybrid fast casual-casual dining model, premium protein strategy including bison burgers, the accidental success of burger bowls, and why they're betting on hospitality over discounting in 2026.
#FastCasualNation #HopdoddyBurgerBar #RestaurantIndustry
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Capital & Advisory: Are you a fast-casual restaurant startup or a technology innovator in the food service industry? Don't miss out on the opportunity to tap into decades of expertise. Reach out to Savor Capital & Advisory now to explore how their seasoned professionals can propel your business forward. Discover if you're eligible to leverage our unparalleled knowledge in food service branding and technology and take your venture to new heights.
Don't wait – amplify your voice or supercharge your startup's growth today with Savor's ecosystem of industry-leading platforms and advisory services. Visit https://www.savor.fm/capital-advisory
#FastCasualNation #HopdoddyBurgerBar #RestaurantIndustry
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/fast-casual-nation--3598490/support.
Get Your Podcast Now! Are you a hospitality or restaurant industry leader looking to amplify your voice and establish yourself as a thought leader? Look no further than SavorFM, the premier podcast platform designed exclusively for hospitality visionaries like you. Take the next step in your industry leadership journey – visit https://www.savor.fm/
Capital & Advisory: Are you a fast-casual restaurant startup or a technology innovator in the food service industry? Don't miss out on the opportunity to tap into decades of expertise. Reach out to Savor Capital & Advisory now to explore how their seasoned professionals can propel your business forward. Discover if you're eligible to leverage our unparalleled knowledge in food service branding and technology and take your venture to new heights.
Don't wait – amplify your voice or supercharge your startup's growth today with Savor's ecosystem of industry-leading platforms and advisory services. Visit https://www.savor.fm/capital-advisory
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
We are back here on another episode of the Fast
Casual Nation podcast, the one that has started at all.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You guys are not want to want to miss it. Listen.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Today we're going to be jumping into a good topic
and that is going to be talking with Hot Dotty
and their CEO. It's going to be a good one
because we're going to breakdown the burger business. You guys
don't want to miss it.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
My name is Paul Baron. As the early pioneer in
fast casual, I've seen the industry evolve from just a
few operators to the most sought after segment by consumers
around the world. Now we're planning to shape its future.
Tap into decades of my expertise identifying the emerging brands
and tech winners in the space. Saber Capital will be
(00:55):
fueling the next generation of fast casual innovation. All right,
we're back here. Let me bring in Jeff. Now, how
are you, Jeff coming in from Hot Buddy.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I'm doing well. Good morning to you both.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So, Jeff, you see what's happening in the space. You guys,
of course, have had those kinds of challenges, especially with
the burger category being so crowded. How have you been
able to deal with a crowded market? But now it's
coming from different sectors, you know, QSR being one and
casual being the other.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yeah, Look, I think it's interesting. The headlines today are
interesting because I think that's some of the things that
we've been seeing here for the last couple of years.
I mean, you know, we do play in a crowded space.
Burger are popular, They're all over the place, and so
we've really worked hard to differentiate ourselves, right what is
our niche among that crowded burger category. And one of
(01:45):
the things that we've done is really have you know,
really leaned in more into providing hospitality. And I think
we almost in some sense act as this hybrid between
fast casual and casual dining because of our service model,
because of our our bars with liquor, bear and wine
and just a whole hop dotty experience.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Give me a state, kind of the state of the
union of where you guys are right now. What's the
size of the brand, What are the big key elements
you're working on?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
So we just opened up our fiftieth restaurant up in McKinney, Texas,
and is doing well, and we're continuing to grow six
to ten restaurants a year currently on a base of fifty.
So you know, we are in eight states all through
the South and continuing to grow in key states such
as Texas, Arizona, and Tennessee. We merged with Gruburger Bar,
(02:33):
which was out of College Station. We acquired their twenty
units and have successfully integrated them and converted them into
a hop dot. Where's home for you guys as far
as HQ, Yeah, we're based in Austin, Texas.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Okay, so Texas being kind of the center of growth
for the brand along with some other locations. What does
that look like right now in terms of the geographical
foot brand?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
So, Texas is our hub, is our home We've got
I would say over fifty percent of our restaurants are
located in Texas, but we we have restaurants in southern California,
in the Denver area, Phoenix, Nashville, Memphis, Treeport, Louisiana, Atlanta,
and down into northern Florida.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, okay, so a couple of things here. You see
what's happening right now in the market. You guys have
been able to kind of navigate an already crowded market.
You add this to the mix and it's almost like
this whole comeback narrative that you guys have faced, you
know before. What would you say is the most concern
(03:35):
you have right now?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Or do you have a concern.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Competing with the casual dining concepts, especially in the burger category.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Look, we right right now, we see a lot of
positive signs. I mean there are challenges. Right We've got
beef prices that are at all time high and not
coming down anytime soon. There's still disruption in the supply chain,
and so inflation is a real thing, and I think
value is a real concern for the consumers. Look at
the heart of it. The way that we've looked at
(04:02):
this is is value. If you look at it as
a math equation, it's the quality of the experience divided
by the price. A lot of people are focused on price.
We're just trying to focus on the quality of the
guest experience. But the challenge comes in commodity cost escalations.
You know, food away from home definitely as a cost
increase is outpacing food in home, right So we're challenged
(04:25):
with that, and I think the consumer right now is
very fickle and it's you know, we are just dialed
in and insanely obsessed with you know, how do we
how do we make the guests happy? How do we
provide them a casual dining experience for fast casual ease
and service and the convenience aspect of it, but all
at a moderate price, right, not a cheap price, not
(04:46):
an inexpensive price, an affordable price, but still provides that
strong value.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Okay, so you would call it value right now, where
you guys are in terms of your price points.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I think we again, our definition of value is, yes,
the quality of experience divided by the price. And we
we're not a discount brand. You know, we have been
working real hard to keep the integrity of the quality
of our products, the quality of our experience and continuing
to invest in that and keeping prices moderated. So you know,
(05:19):
if you look at the burger space, crowded burger space,
we're definitely at the high end of fast casual or
QSR in terms of pricing. There's no doubt about that.
We rival some of the casual dining places in terms
of price. So I think our strategy has really been
to hone in on that quality of that guest experience
and giving them the best of both worlds, giving them
(05:40):
the best of fast casual, the convenience, the ease and
the flexibility of dining, but with the experience for those
who want it and the hospitality for those who come
to dine in of a casual dining restaurant. We're about
real food. I mean, I think at the core ethos
of Hop dott E it's you know, real food by
real people. And we have really charged forward with that mantra,
(06:04):
and that meant making a bold move a number of
years ago of eliminating all plant based meats specifically. Back
then there were concerns about the health benefits or quite
frankly the opposite of some of those, and look not
to disparage them, but we just wanted to really get
grounded in quality beef, chicken, tuna, bison, real proteins, real
(06:27):
vegetables and so our spin on it is a homemade
vegetable based, mushroom based, seed based burger and we call
the soul Patty and we use that in our La Bendita,
or you can substitute it anywhere you want. And I
think for us it was there was a lot of
folks out there that didn't want a plant based meat
(06:48):
that tasted like beef. They wanted you know, some of
those folks like the vegetable flavor of an a burger texture,
and that's really what we work to mimic.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I'm looking at your website here. First of all, nice design.
I like the fact that you guys are really focusing,
you know, front and center, kind of to the point
that you were hitting on is really going after the
protein side of things. Obviously you guys have started to
move into the beverage sector on libation side. So has
that been successful for you?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
You know it has we We've always done it, but
we we reinvented the packaging and kind of the promotional night.
Thank you. Yeah, I was. I was a post COVID baby.
You know, how do we deliver the great hop dotty
experience to somebody who wants to eat it on the
lake or in the park or at home? And that
is a you know, a gallon roadie bag of Margarita's.
(07:37):
It has been very popular.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
This is I So, I was in Austin not too
long ago. I went actually went to one of your
locations and enjoyed it. It was fantastic, and I would agree.
I think the hospitality was a step above. But the
thing that I had never done, I had never had
a burger bowl and I got my first burger bawl
at hop Dotty, So I was blown away. I'm like,
why haven't I thought about this is before just doing
(08:01):
it this way, you know. So now I'm just trying
to do these at home. So I'm trying to make
a few of these burger bowls at home. My wife
thinks I'm crazy, and I'm like, don't you remember that
brand we were at in Austin.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
You liked it, you know, she was that was different.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, there wasn't a Chicken ranch bowl or was it
the Thunderbird bowl? You know, it didn't have all these
cool ingredients on it.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
You know that's the thing. How are these going?
Speaker 1 (08:22):
You know?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It's it's it's funny that was born out of our
failure to come up with a lettuce wrap. You know,
it was very challenging for us, and it is hard,
and we uh, by default we could what if we
put in a bowl? And that's been extraordinarily successful for us.
And to your point, protein, protein is in right now,
(08:43):
Protein is big. Our next menu revamp will come out
in the first part of January, and we will list
protein next to all of our items. I mean, and
it's shocking how much protein you can get with our
bikes regular.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, it's it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
The bike Usenberger is interesting because that has mostly been
a very cost centered product. I remember talking with one
of the guys in Dallas that started doing bison about
a decade ago, and that was his big concern. He's
just one, you can't find real good quality and then two,
the price of it is so much more expensive. How
have you guys been able to crack it?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You know? Look, we have been very fortunate to work
with I think a leading company and force of nature,
right local company here to Austin. They were the folks
behind the Epic Bars and they are just insanely talented
and passionate, passionate and driven to promote regenerative farming and
ranching and specifically bison farming and ranching, and so they
(09:41):
act as a purchasing co op with farmers and ranchers
that all they do is focus on regenerative bison really
around the world. But they have done a great job
in proliferating I think bison herds and sustainable bison herds
in a way that is helping the market thrive.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
You guys do a good job on social as well.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
I was looking at your TikTok page very food forwards,
which I think is the key there. How do you
translate this into social where a customer comes and they
see it or maybe they discover it on TikTok or
on Instagram and they will say, okay this, How do
they recognize what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
What do you feel like as the magic that helps
that happen?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Look, I think part of it is understanding the core
of what people we think are looking for that we
can deliver. Okay, the first place we start with is
our team members in all of this, if we can't
surprise and impress and delight and exceed that our team
members expectations, then you know, then we're not doing our job.
So we start there, and so there's really a lot
(10:41):
of internal buzz and internal feedback loops of what are
our guests looking for and what can we do to
deliver that? And so it starts there. And then once
we get that, you know we've been blessed. We've got
a very creative talented group here and we leverage all
of our team members across the country. So this isn't
just a city and in an office, and this is
folks in you know, Shreveport and Odessa and Corpus Christy
(11:05):
that are all chiming in to help give us content
and help us really formulate the message that will resonate
with our guest.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
With the mix.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Because you've got kind of a combination bar Burger experience,
then you also fall in the category of fast casuals.
So me as a consumer, I know it, but for
an average person, they may not understand what they're truly getting.
You know, are we at a casual dining restaurant? Are
we at a like something like a Chili's or something,
(11:38):
you know in that era Red Robin. How do you
feel that you guys kind of break down that barrier
to kind of one, you know, convey value and then
to convey this whole hospitality thing that you're working on.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, you know, look, it's it's it's a great question,
and it's really at the heart of that hop dotty experience.
So it all starts with restaurant design, right, they are
intentionally signed when you walk in, there's a clear queue
line to the right to the left right with the
big menu digital menu board that says, hey, order here,
you know, in our menu. But when you walk in,
(12:14):
there's a full bar flickor beer and wine, and first
person to greet you, generally as a bartender that welcomes
you in and tries to encourage you to sit at
the bar if you want to know more of a
full dining service experience. So I think it's those internal
cues of leading people to the cashier station or the
bartender greeting and inviting people to the bar, and then
(12:35):
on once you get to the cashier, the cashier really
explains how it works and that it's full service hospitality
from there. And so I think the design is really
important to queue people in. People that have never been in,
you know, they maybe maybe it looks like a casual
dining restaurant from the outside, and so they're setting expectations.
So that visual queueing and that visual wayfinding at the
(12:56):
very beginning is critically important because they know, I'll be honest,
the challenge we have is people expecting us to be
full service casual dining and we're not, and then we
disappoint people. So you know that great by the bartender.
The visual signing, signage and wayfinding is critically important. You know.
That was a good option for people like a hop
(13:17):
doty regular that knew the system and they could go
in and order. And what we learned from that was
two things. One is that everyone is on these things nowadays,
and if we could make a very easy, you know,
user interface for hop dotty dot com took place orders there,
that was a key learning for us. And then secondarily,
(13:37):
we really feel that one of our competitive advantages in
our concept right and within the brand is human hospitality,
human touch points, and so we felt it was very
important that you speak to a live person and they
guide you through the journey. And if you wanted something fast,
easy and convenient, we were going to encourage you and
(13:58):
build a really great website for you to order and
order for pickup or delivery or however you want to order.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, I think this is something that we're finding a
lot of and that is the mobile experience is starting
to translate pretty heavily to consumers one they've been trained
on it so much, and I often wonder if that
is going to become one of the major areas of
how brands start to integrate software and you know, new solutions.
(14:25):
Have you guys integrated any kind of AI right now
in terms like customer service into your ordering queue?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
What are you guys doing in that space?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
You know, we started with a very basic, you know,
phone ordering answering order placement system and partnered with Kia.
That was our first kind of foray into it. And
you know, as AI continues to improve, I think that
is going to be a very valuable key platform for us.
Continuing to move forward beyond that, you know, it's really
(14:55):
into guest insights, and so we've built a database with Snowflake,
and we are populating at and starting to work with
key partners like Signal hill Air, which has been I
think best in class helping us look at consumer insights,
guest behavior, ordering preferences, pricing, those types of things.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That's a good move because this is an area I
think that is lacking right now in at least the
fast casual sector. You know, here at Saber, we invest
in a lot of brands or emerging brands, and that's
the first Usually the first question I have is what
kind of data do you have on your consumer? You know,
and being able to one understand what they want too.
What are some opportunities here for growth? When you look
(15:32):
at this kind of data that's coming into your brand,
what would you say has been the aha moment? Has
there been anything?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Is like wow, that's it for us.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
The key has been people are looking for quality. They're
looking for consistency and execution. They're looking for hospitality, They're
they're actually looking for a fun experience and the ability
to deliver those three key core things. I think is
what has differentiated you know where we sit today and
you know we've been you know, knock on wood. We'll
(16:05):
we'll end the year almost two percent in traffic, which
has been you know.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
A nearly environment big thing for us.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, we are head down looking at organic growth, but
we're also opportunistic. You know, we continue to look for
other like minded brands across the country that may want
enjoying right.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
We are brand shopping, We're always breaking news, we're brand
shopping baby getting.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Water hot, and not necessarily for just converting to hop dotty.
I mean we may want to you know, create some
synergies with another like minded brand in different parts of
the country that are doing the same thing, that are
investing in quality food, investing in people, investing in that
hospitality experience that we could you know do so is.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
The High Bar Hospitality group. Is that kind of the
envelope that you're looking at building to where you have
multi brand looking at a merger and or acquisition everything
under that potentially.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yes, Yeah, that that that was the all premise behind
High Bar and that still is something we are we're
looking at, you know, we just feel right now, hop
Dot is at a very interesting inflection point of scale
with the units.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And Jeff, what's the sleeper state? You got eight states?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Is there a sleeper state out there?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I mean I hear Oklahoma a lot with development.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
So Lahoma is one that is definitely on our radar.
I mean it's you know, Dallas gets closer closer to
Oklahoma all the time, and so you know, with our
continued success in Dallas, absolutely, But I'll tell you Arizona
is a market that performs very very very well. It's
growing rapidly, good cost structures. That that's I think that
(17:42):
for us, that's the sort you're.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Worried at all about what we're seeing in the labor
markets and some of these certain set of states out
there that have some more pressure.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Look, I think there's there's always labor concerns, but I
think it's it's relative to the rest of the competition
set right people. I think people are going to continue
to go out seek hospitality, seat quality, Burger's bowls, you know,
all of that. And so I think it's just our
ability to compete well in that right. We compete well
in California, which is our highest labor state. We compete
(18:13):
well in Denver, which is has some labor wage pressures.
But yeah, I think that's an issue, and I think
it forces every concept like ours to really think about
where's human hospitality, where's the human touch really important? What
can I automate, what can I scale for efficiencies, and
where's that human touch point critically important? And so at
(18:33):
Hop Dottie, it's at our bartender, it's at the cashier,
you know, those are the two critical pieces. We have
a food runner, red Apron person that you know is
a combination busser. They'll take orders at the table, they'll
greet people, you know. So those are the three key
critical human hospitality touch points at Hop Dotty, and I
think every brand has to identify that to try to
(18:55):
minimize that just to improve their labor.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
And I think, Jeff, when you look at the landscape
of fast cat, obviously chicken has had its day in
the sun, and we're seeing a little bit of slowdown
in that category. Burger was this category, I would say
stick seven eight years ago. It was like every major
burger category. Do you feel like we're going to see
a resurgence for the burger brands?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Look, I think quality always wins, so we're talking about
a resurgence. I think those that invest in quality, whether
it's Burger's, chicken, what have you, I think those brands
will be researching. I think burger burgers, like pizza, like chicken,
they're always going to be around. I think those that
find an interesting way to deliver that and do it
with quality consistency, we're going to continue to win. And
(19:41):
so I think, yes, I do think burgers will remain relevant.
I think burgers can be hot again. I think it
just takes innovators and disruptors to change the game and
create some buzz and excitement like the chicken category has
with hot Chicken.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Let's we're going to wrap up here, but before we do,
I want to get two predictions, either for your brand
or for the market, you can choose for twenty twenty six.
What would you say two items that you think could
happen next year.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I think cop dotty. I think cop dotty as a prediction.
That's interesting. I think we will continue to grow positive
traffic in twenty twenty six despite some serious challenges that
we all see out there, and for the industry, I
think it's those that commit to quality and hospitality will
continue to win. I think people are going to spend
(20:28):
their hard earned dollars more carefully, maybe more frugally, and
when they do so, they're going to look for a
night out. They're going to look for an occasion to
celebrate and be with people. I think food is a
commodity will be consumed at home and not away from home.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Man, the battle is on then, because everybody is talking
value right now. What you're talking about is experience hospitality
kind of a shift which ironically fast casual going into
this mess for the last six months twelve months, had
been declining in sentiment when it came to hospitality.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
So maybe that's why you guys are.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Seeing the you know, the foot traffic growth that you've
been able to get so far.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
This is a good one.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Hey, Jeff, thanks so much for coming in on the
podcast today. We'll definitely get you back in as things
go into twenty twenty six. If you hold the growth. Ooh,
dare I say, this could be a top one hundred.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Let's let's see what happened.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Well, I look, I appreciate both of you having me
on you bank. Thank you, John, We appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
All right, all right, we're gonna let Jeff go get
out of here, and of course he's got a lot
of burgers to take.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Care of there in Austin.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
We have got to watch this very closely because I
think Jeff hits hit something that is very important for
this industry. To your point, what you were hitting on
your headline story this week in terms of the outlook
is the brands that are going to choose value versus
the brands that might choose what Jeff is doing, which
is more hospitality experience. My wife and had an interesting conversation.
(21:54):
He says, I don't she has actually told me. She
said when we were there in Austin, she was I
don't think this is fast casual And I said, well,
it's only because it doesn't have a server. That's really
all it is. And she goes, I like this better.
I like this much better. And she said, I'd rather
go here than to a casual dining where you have
a server pestering you all the time. And you know,
(22:16):
and I might, Well, that's not really a bad thing.
That's a good thing. Hey, listen, you guys, check it out.
It's February second and fourth, Austin.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Right here.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
You can learn more over on fastcasual dot com about
what's going on up there.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
It might be interesting.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
You never know, we might pull a surprise here on
Fast Casual Nation for you guys as well.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
You know what to do.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Like and subscribe if you haven't already, and of course
share this with someone out there, because this podcast is
the number one restaurant business podcast in the universe, in
the universe, in the universe, and you guys are part
of it. Thank you so much for subscribing, watching, listening.
If you're over on Spotify our Apple podcast, leave us
a rating over there. We'll catch you next time right
(22:56):
here on Fast Casual Nation.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Take care
Speaker 1 (23:00):
It sho
We are back here on another episode of the Fast
Casual Nation podcast, the one that has started at all.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You guys are not want to want to miss it. Listen.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Today we're going to be jumping into a good topic
and that is going to be talking with Hot Dotty
and their CEO. It's going to be a good one
because we're going to breakdown the burger business. You guys
don't want to miss it.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
My name is Paul Baron. As the early pioneer in
fast casual, I've seen the industry evolve from just a
few operators to the most sought after segment by consumers
around the world. Now we're planning to shape its future.
Tap into decades of my expertise identifying the emerging brands
and tech winners in the space. Saber Capital will be
(00:55):
fueling the next generation of fast casual innovation. All right,
we're back here. Let me bring in Jeff. Now, how
are you, Jeff coming in from Hot Buddy.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I'm doing well. Good morning to you both.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So, Jeff, you see what's happening in the space. You guys,
of course, have had those kinds of challenges, especially with
the burger category being so crowded. How have you been
able to deal with a crowded market? But now it's
coming from different sectors, you know, QSR being one and
casual being the other.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yeah, Look, I think it's interesting. The headlines today are
interesting because I think that's some of the things that
we've been seeing here for the last couple of years.
I mean, you know, we do play in a crowded space.
Burger are popular, They're all over the place, and so
we've really worked hard to differentiate ourselves, right what is
our niche among that crowded burger category. And one of
(01:45):
the things that we've done is really have you know,
really leaned in more into providing hospitality. And I think
we almost in some sense act as this hybrid between
fast casual and casual dining because of our service model,
because of our our bars with liquor, bear and wine
and just a whole hop dotty experience.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Give me a state, kind of the state of the
union of where you guys are right now. What's the
size of the brand, What are the big key elements
you're working on?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
So we just opened up our fiftieth restaurant up in McKinney, Texas,
and is doing well, and we're continuing to grow six
to ten restaurants a year currently on a base of fifty.
So you know, we are in eight states all through
the South and continuing to grow in key states such
as Texas, Arizona, and Tennessee. We merged with Gruburger Bar,
(02:33):
which was out of College Station. We acquired their twenty
units and have successfully integrated them and converted them into
a hop dot. Where's home for you guys as far
as HQ, Yeah, we're based in Austin, Texas.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Okay, so Texas being kind of the center of growth
for the brand along with some other locations. What does
that look like right now in terms of the geographical
foot brand?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
So, Texas is our hub, is our home We've got
I would say over fifty percent of our restaurants are
located in Texas, but we we have restaurants in southern California,
in the Denver area, Phoenix, Nashville, Memphis, Treeport, Louisiana, Atlanta,
and down into northern Florida.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, okay, so a couple of things here. You see
what's happening right now in the market. You guys have
been able to kind of navigate an already crowded market.
You add this to the mix and it's almost like
this whole comeback narrative that you guys have faced, you
know before. What would you say is the most concern
(03:35):
you have right now?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Or do you have a concern.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Competing with the casual dining concepts, especially in the burger category.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Look, we right right now, we see a lot of
positive signs. I mean there are challenges. Right We've got
beef prices that are at all time high and not
coming down anytime soon. There's still disruption in the supply chain,
and so inflation is a real thing, and I think
value is a real concern for the consumers. Look at
the heart of it. The way that we've looked at
(04:02):
this is is value. If you look at it as
a math equation, it's the quality of the experience divided
by the price. A lot of people are focused on price.
We're just trying to focus on the quality of the
guest experience. But the challenge comes in commodity cost escalations.
You know, food away from home definitely as a cost
increase is outpacing food in home, right So we're challenged
(04:25):
with that, and I think the consumer right now is
very fickle and it's you know, we are just dialed
in and insanely obsessed with you know, how do we
how do we make the guests happy? How do we
provide them a casual dining experience for fast casual ease
and service and the convenience aspect of it, but all
at a moderate price, right, not a cheap price, not
(04:46):
an inexpensive price, an affordable price, but still provides that
strong value.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Okay, so you would call it value right now, where
you guys are in terms of your price points.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I think we again, our definition of value is, yes,
the quality of experience divided by the price. And we
we're not a discount brand. You know, we have been
working real hard to keep the integrity of the quality
of our products, the quality of our experience and continuing
to invest in that and keeping prices moderated. So you know,
(05:19):
if you look at the burger space, crowded burger space,
we're definitely at the high end of fast casual or
QSR in terms of pricing. There's no doubt about that.
We rival some of the casual dining places in terms
of price. So I think our strategy has really been
to hone in on that quality of that guest experience
and giving them the best of both worlds, giving them
(05:40):
the best of fast casual, the convenience, the ease and
the flexibility of dining, but with the experience for those
who want it and the hospitality for those who come
to dine in of a casual dining restaurant. We're about
real food. I mean, I think at the core ethos
of Hop dott E it's you know, real food by
real people. And we have really charged forward with that mantra,
(06:04):
and that meant making a bold move a number of
years ago of eliminating all plant based meats specifically. Back
then there were concerns about the health benefits or quite
frankly the opposite of some of those, and look not
to disparage them, but we just wanted to really get
grounded in quality beef, chicken, tuna, bison, real proteins, real
(06:27):
vegetables and so our spin on it is a homemade
vegetable based, mushroom based, seed based burger and we call
the soul Patty and we use that in our La Bendita,
or you can substitute it anywhere you want. And I
think for us it was there was a lot of
folks out there that didn't want a plant based meat
(06:48):
that tasted like beef. They wanted you know, some of
those folks like the vegetable flavor of an a burger texture,
and that's really what we work to mimic.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I'm looking at your website here. First of all, nice design.
I like the fact that you guys are really focusing,
you know, front and center, kind of to the point
that you were hitting on is really going after the
protein side of things. Obviously you guys have started to
move into the beverage sector on libation side. So has
that been successful for you?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
You know it has we We've always done it, but
we we reinvented the packaging and kind of the promotional night.
Thank you. Yeah, I was. I was a post COVID baby.
You know, how do we deliver the great hop dotty
experience to somebody who wants to eat it on the
lake or in the park or at home? And that
is a you know, a gallon roadie bag of Margarita's.
(07:37):
It has been very popular.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
This is I So, I was in Austin not too
long ago. I went actually went to one of your
locations and enjoyed it. It was fantastic, and I would agree.
I think the hospitality was a step above. But the
thing that I had never done, I had never had
a burger bowl and I got my first burger bawl
at hop Dotty, So I was blown away. I'm like,
why haven't I thought about this is before just doing
(08:01):
it this way, you know. So now I'm just trying
to do these at home. So I'm trying to make
a few of these burger bowls at home. My wife
thinks I'm crazy, and I'm like, don't you remember that
brand we were at in Austin.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
You liked it, you know, she was that was different.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, there wasn't a Chicken ranch bowl or was it
the Thunderbird bowl? You know, it didn't have all these
cool ingredients on it.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
You know that's the thing. How are these going?
Speaker 1 (08:22):
You know?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It's it's it's funny that was born out of our
failure to come up with a lettuce wrap. You know,
it was very challenging for us, and it is hard,
and we uh, by default we could what if we
put in a bowl? And that's been extraordinarily successful for us.
And to your point, protein, protein is in right now,
(08:43):
Protein is big. Our next menu revamp will come out
in the first part of January, and we will list
protein next to all of our items. I mean, and
it's shocking how much protein you can get with our
bikes regular.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, it's it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
The bike Usenberger is interesting because that has mostly been
a very cost centered product. I remember talking with one
of the guys in Dallas that started doing bison about
a decade ago, and that was his big concern. He's
just one, you can't find real good quality and then two,
the price of it is so much more expensive. How
have you guys been able to crack it?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You know? Look, we have been very fortunate to work
with I think a leading company and force of nature,
right local company here to Austin. They were the folks
behind the Epic Bars and they are just insanely talented
and passionate, passionate and driven to promote regenerative farming and
ranching and specifically bison farming and ranching, and so they
(09:41):
act as a purchasing co op with farmers and ranchers
that all they do is focus on regenerative bison really
around the world. But they have done a great job
in proliferating I think bison herds and sustainable bison herds
in a way that is helping the market thrive.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
You guys do a good job on social as well.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
I was looking at your TikTok page very food forwards,
which I think is the key there. How do you
translate this into social where a customer comes and they
see it or maybe they discover it on TikTok or
on Instagram and they will say, okay this, How do
they recognize what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
What do you feel like as the magic that helps
that happen?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Look, I think part of it is understanding the core
of what people we think are looking for that we
can deliver. Okay, the first place we start with is
our team members in all of this, if we can't
surprise and impress and delight and exceed that our team
members expectations, then you know, then we're not doing our job.
So we start there, and so there's really a lot
(10:41):
of internal buzz and internal feedback loops of what are
our guests looking for and what can we do to
deliver that? And so it starts there. And then once
we get that, you know we've been blessed. We've got
a very creative talented group here and we leverage all
of our team members across the country. So this isn't
just a city and in an office, and this is
folks in you know, Shreveport and Odessa and Corpus Christy
(11:05):
that are all chiming in to help give us content
and help us really formulate the message that will resonate
with our guest.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
With the mix.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Because you've got kind of a combination bar Burger experience,
then you also fall in the category of fast casuals.
So me as a consumer, I know it, but for
an average person, they may not understand what they're truly getting.
You know, are we at a casual dining restaurant? Are
we at a like something like a Chili's or something,
(11:38):
you know in that era Red Robin. How do you
feel that you guys kind of break down that barrier
to kind of one, you know, convey value and then
to convey this whole hospitality thing that you're working on.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, you know, look, it's it's it's a great question,
and it's really at the heart of that hop dotty experience.
So it all starts with restaurant design, right, they are
intentionally signed when you walk in, there's a clear queue
line to the right to the left right with the
big menu digital menu board that says, hey, order here,
you know, in our menu. But when you walk in,
(12:14):
there's a full bar flickor beer and wine, and first
person to greet you, generally as a bartender that welcomes
you in and tries to encourage you to sit at
the bar if you want to know more of a
full dining service experience. So I think it's those internal
cues of leading people to the cashier station or the
bartender greeting and inviting people to the bar, and then
(12:35):
on once you get to the cashier, the cashier really
explains how it works and that it's full service hospitality
from there. And so I think the design is really
important to queue people in. People that have never been in,
you know, they maybe maybe it looks like a casual
dining restaurant from the outside, and so they're setting expectations.
So that visual queueing and that visual wayfinding at the
(12:56):
very beginning is critically important because they know, I'll be honest,
the challenge we have is people expecting us to be
full service casual dining and we're not, and then we
disappoint people. So you know that great by the bartender.
The visual signing, signage and wayfinding is critically important. You know.
That was a good option for people like a hop
(13:17):
doty regular that knew the system and they could go
in and order. And what we learned from that was
two things. One is that everyone is on these things nowadays,
and if we could make a very easy, you know,
user interface for hop dotty dot com took place orders there,
that was a key learning for us. And then secondarily,
(13:37):
we really feel that one of our competitive advantages in
our concept right and within the brand is human hospitality,
human touch points, and so we felt it was very
important that you speak to a live person and they
guide you through the journey. And if you wanted something fast,
easy and convenient, we were going to encourage you and
(13:58):
build a really great website for you to order and
order for pickup or delivery or however you want to order.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, I think this is something that we're finding a
lot of and that is the mobile experience is starting
to translate pretty heavily to consumers one they've been trained
on it so much, and I often wonder if that
is going to become one of the major areas of
how brands start to integrate software and you know, new solutions.
(14:25):
Have you guys integrated any kind of AI right now
in terms like customer service into your ordering queue?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
What are you guys doing in that space?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
You know, we started with a very basic, you know,
phone ordering answering order placement system and partnered with Kia.
That was our first kind of foray into it. And
you know, as AI continues to improve, I think that
is going to be a very valuable key platform for us.
Continuing to move forward beyond that, you know, it's really
(14:55):
into guest insights, and so we've built a database with Snowflake,
and we are populating at and starting to work with
key partners like Signal hill Air, which has been I
think best in class helping us look at consumer insights,
guest behavior, ordering preferences, pricing, those types of things.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That's a good move because this is an area I
think that is lacking right now in at least the
fast casual sector. You know, here at Saber, we invest
in a lot of brands or emerging brands, and that's
the first Usually the first question I have is what
kind of data do you have on your consumer? You know,
and being able to one understand what they want too.
What are some opportunities here for growth? When you look
(15:32):
at this kind of data that's coming into your brand,
what would you say has been the aha moment? Has
there been anything?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Is like wow, that's it for us.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
The key has been people are looking for quality. They're
looking for consistency and execution. They're looking for hospitality, They're
they're actually looking for a fun experience and the ability
to deliver those three key core things. I think is
what has differentiated you know where we sit today and
you know we've been you know, knock on wood. We'll
(16:05):
we'll end the year almost two percent in traffic, which
has been you know.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
A nearly environment big thing for us.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, we are head down looking at organic growth, but
we're also opportunistic. You know, we continue to look for
other like minded brands across the country that may want
enjoying right.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
We are brand shopping, We're always breaking news, we're brand
shopping baby getting.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Water hot, and not necessarily for just converting to hop dotty.
I mean we may want to you know, create some
synergies with another like minded brand in different parts of
the country that are doing the same thing, that are
investing in quality food, investing in people, investing in that
hospitality experience that we could you know do so is.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
The High Bar Hospitality group. Is that kind of the
envelope that you're looking at building to where you have
multi brand looking at a merger and or acquisition everything
under that potentially.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yes, Yeah, that that that was the all premise behind
High Bar and that still is something we are we're
looking at, you know, we just feel right now, hop
Dot is at a very interesting inflection point of scale
with the units.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And Jeff, what's the sleeper state? You got eight states?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Is there a sleeper state out there?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I mean I hear Oklahoma a lot with development.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
So Lahoma is one that is definitely on our radar.
I mean it's you know, Dallas gets closer closer to
Oklahoma all the time, and so you know, with our
continued success in Dallas, absolutely, But I'll tell you Arizona
is a market that performs very very very well. It's
growing rapidly, good cost structures. That that's I think that
(17:42):
for us, that's the sort you're.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Worried at all about what we're seeing in the labor
markets and some of these certain set of states out
there that have some more pressure.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Look, I think there's there's always labor concerns, but I
think it's it's relative to the rest of the competition
set right people. I think people are going to continue
to go out seek hospitality, seat quality, Burger's bowls, you know,
all of that. And so I think it's just our
ability to compete well in that right. We compete well
in California, which is our highest labor state. We compete
(18:13):
well in Denver, which is has some labor wage pressures.
But yeah, I think that's an issue, and I think
it forces every concept like ours to really think about
where's human hospitality, where's the human touch really important? What
can I automate, what can I scale for efficiencies, and
where's that human touch point critically important? And so at
(18:33):
Hop Dottie, it's at our bartender, it's at the cashier,
you know, those are the two critical pieces. We have
a food runner, red Apron person that you know is
a combination busser. They'll take orders at the table, they'll
greet people, you know. So those are the three key
critical human hospitality touch points at Hop Dotty, and I
think every brand has to identify that to try to
(18:55):
minimize that just to improve their labor.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
And I think, Jeff, when you look at the landscape
of fast cat, obviously chicken has had its day in
the sun, and we're seeing a little bit of slowdown
in that category. Burger was this category, I would say
stick seven eight years ago. It was like every major
burger category. Do you feel like we're going to see
a resurgence for the burger brands?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Look, I think quality always wins, so we're talking about
a resurgence. I think those that invest in quality, whether
it's Burger's, chicken, what have you, I think those brands
will be researching. I think burger burgers, like pizza, like chicken,
they're always going to be around. I think those that
find an interesting way to deliver that and do it
with quality consistency, we're going to continue to win. And
(19:41):
so I think, yes, I do think burgers will remain relevant.
I think burgers can be hot again. I think it
just takes innovators and disruptors to change the game and
create some buzz and excitement like the chicken category has
with hot Chicken.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Let's we're going to wrap up here, but before we do,
I want to get two predictions, either for your brand
or for the market, you can choose for twenty twenty six.
What would you say two items that you think could
happen next year.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I think cop dotty. I think cop dotty as a prediction.
That's interesting. I think we will continue to grow positive
traffic in twenty twenty six despite some serious challenges that
we all see out there, and for the industry, I
think it's those that commit to quality and hospitality will
continue to win. I think people are going to spend
(20:28):
their hard earned dollars more carefully, maybe more frugally, and
when they do so, they're going to look for a
night out. They're going to look for an occasion to
celebrate and be with people. I think food is a
commodity will be consumed at home and not away from home.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Man, the battle is on then, because everybody is talking
value right now. What you're talking about is experience hospitality
kind of a shift which ironically fast casual going into
this mess for the last six months twelve months, had
been declining in sentiment when it came to hospitality.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
So maybe that's why you guys are.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Seeing the you know, the foot traffic growth that you've
been able to get so far.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
This is a good one.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Hey, Jeff, thanks so much for coming in on the
podcast today. We'll definitely get you back in as things
go into twenty twenty six. If you hold the growth. Ooh,
dare I say, this could be a top one hundred.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Let's let's see what happened.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Well, I look, I appreciate both of you having me
on you bank. Thank you, John, We appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
All right, all right, we're gonna let Jeff go get
out of here, and of course he's got a lot
of burgers to take.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Care of there in Austin.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
We have got to watch this very closely because I
think Jeff hits hit something that is very important for
this industry. To your point, what you were hitting on
your headline story this week in terms of the outlook
is the brands that are going to choose value versus
the brands that might choose what Jeff is doing, which
is more hospitality experience. My wife and had an interesting conversation.
(21:54):
He says, I don't she has actually told me. She
said when we were there in Austin, she was I
don't think this is fast casual And I said, well,
it's only because it doesn't have a server. That's really
all it is. And she goes, I like this better.
I like this much better. And she said, I'd rather
go here than to a casual dining where you have
a server pestering you all the time. And you know,
(22:16):
and I might, Well, that's not really a bad thing.
That's a good thing. Hey, listen, you guys, check it out.
It's February second and fourth, Austin.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Right here.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
You can learn more over on fastcasual dot com about
what's going on up there.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
It might be interesting.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
You never know, we might pull a surprise here on
Fast Casual Nation for you guys as well.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
You know what to do.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Like and subscribe if you haven't already, and of course
share this with someone out there, because this podcast is
the number one restaurant business podcast in the universe, in
the universe, in the universe, and you guys are part
of it. Thank you so much for subscribing, watching, listening.
If you're over on Spotify our Apple podcast, leave us
a rating over there. We'll catch you next time right
(22:56):
here on Fast Casual Nation.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Take care
Speaker 1 (23:00):
It sho
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