May 28, 2025 • 55 mins
Keith and Dave discuss the Thunder and Pacers going up 3-1 on the Timberwolves and Knicks, the upcoming summer of trades, the best landing spot for Jonathan Kuminga, and a lot more.
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Episode 799 (S11 Ep. 24)
Join the listener slack and get Monday's bonus episode, only at patreon.com/fastbreakbreakfast
Get 20% off a Stathead annual subscription with code FBBF
Try Underdog Fantasy and use code FBBF to get a free pick, plus a deposit match up to $1000: play.underdogfantasy.com/p-fastbreak-breakfast.
Use promo code FASTBREABREAK at SeatGeek for $20 off your first ticket purchase
Check out the merchandise sale at teepublic.com/stores/fastbreak-breakfast
Episode 799 (S11 Ep. 24)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
All right, and welcome to Fast Break Breakfast NBA podcast.
My name is Keith Parrish and I'm here once again
with my buddy through the miracle of computer phone. You're
with Dave Defour. Also, I believe with your dog that
(00:28):
yeah here, I can't hear crawled up on the couch.
I'm watching if you're on YouTube, So it looks like
a to me, it looks like a giant cat.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, he looks like a tiger. Yeah, but he's like
ninety five pounds and he just finished eating breakfast.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
So that's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Perfect timing, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, we're here with you and your dog. How how's
life Dave?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Great? Thanks for good Yeah, seasons winding down. It's been
fun summertime, you know, rolling in it's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Here is rolling I mean you know what, Dave, I'm
gonna be in your neighborhood in like three weeks.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Oh that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Have big, big Fast Break Breakfast family news. We're going
to Disneyland. That's right, going to Disneyland. One of the
one of the huge benefits of having a team uh
long eliminated from the playoffs and with no draft picks
to talk about. I'm just kidding. Honestly, if the Grizzlies
(01:27):
had like three first round picks, I'm still would be
going on vacation with the family. But I'm gonna be
out in your neck of the woods. Actually, I'll We're
gonna be there for the first round of the NBA Draft.
Maybe that'll be the night John Meran gets traded. We
can do an emergency an emergency episode.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I think I'm taking the week of the draft off
from work.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, well, like, look we have Andrew Schlecht and Alex Spears,
they do draft stuff all year. Yeah, Espera Henna like
is super into the draft, and for me, I catch
up one of those guys after they've been drafted, starting
in summer league, because it just gives me a It's
more organized for me that way, Like I don't need
to know who they are until until I know what
(02:14):
team they're on, and then I can kind of get
a better sense of learning who the who they actually
are as players speak.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Speaking of the draft, and this will be a lead
story on this week's Past break Breakfast, where of course
in the midst of the conference finals, but obviously the
first three teams in the lottery who jumped up all
kind of a little bit exciting, a lot of interesting angles.
Get the Mavericks taking Cooper flag. You got the Spurs
(02:40):
getting pretty lucky, and take this Dylan Harper guy, and
then and then the Sixers. So the Sixers maybe they're
gonna trade their pick. Who knows they're win now? Also sure,
But I'm thinking about the Spurs, and I'm thinking about
how lots of crumbs are being dropped among the NBA
news breakers, news creators, about this being a summer that's
(03:05):
gonna be full of fireworks, not just the parish family
goes to La not just me and Dave meeting up
in the West Coast. Also of course being in a
summerly together. No, there's probably gonna be a lot of
big trades. I thought of a great trade that I
love that I don't see any downside to. And this
might be me going back to the well too often
(03:26):
of a team. I keep thinking about dearon Fox for
Kevin Durant, who says, no, what's the downside?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Spurs probably said no, So I think there was interest
there as we're hearing.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So we're hearing this interest. I think obviously, I think suns.
That's as simple. Oh absolutely, But yeah, yeah, that's that's amazing.
I feel like the son's got to include stuff to
get the Spurs on board. The Spurs pitch. It clarifies
some things. If you have if Harper is a one,
I don't know if this is where you and me
(04:05):
don't know our draft guys that well, yeah, but like
you got Harper, you got Castle. And again this goes
back to my I don't love Dearon Fox. I think
he's pretty good, but I don't love it. And it's like,
now you got lucky with this second pick of the draft,
you got Wimby. Let's just you get a you get
out of jail free sorta with this this Fox trade
(04:25):
you made, bringing men, bringing Kevin Durant. Have a couple
amazing years with Kevin Durant. Maybe, I mean, maybe there's
something even better. They can make it flip. But I
can't find other teams to trade Daron Fox to. This
is the This is the conundrum of all kinds of trades,
trying to find out which teams because only playoff teams
trade for guys. Teams teams with futures don't trade for
(04:46):
people making money or with or with teams that are
on the rebuild. You know they're not. They never trade
for actual good players, right, So I don't know. That's
why to me, it was like a clear cut the
Suns need a bri out of this, and I mean,
Dearon Fox and Debit book together seems amazing and they've
turned the end of Kevin Durant's career into all right,
(05:09):
you got a near all star point guard to pair
with your All NBA level Devin Booker officially not all
NBA only got two. I saw two third team All
NBA votes for Dona. Anyway, how do we get the
Spurs on board to this? What else needs to happen
for this?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I mean, is kd the kind of guy you want
to bring in at this point? You know what I mean?
Like it feels like they're doing, if nothing else, they're
doing a young and competitive team, right, Like they're gonna
probably move away from Chris Paul, which makes sense. He's
you know, forty. I think Daron Fox is probably sticking around.
(05:48):
I don't don't see him moving him all right.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
It'd be awkward because that's when they traded a lot of.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Stuff for him, right, if they were gonna move him,
I feel like they would have to get a guy
that is younger than Kevin Durant, you know, like sh
if they were like if it was a part of
a Giannis trade or something like that, I could see it,
but I do don't see it.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
For oy, I in trouble seeing it. It obviously makes worse.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Phoenix even have to add for.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
The honest Ryan Dunn, I don't know. Yeah, I have
no clue what else they could they could add the
If it's the Spurs trying to get involved in in
the Honest package, then that's interesting. But it's like, what
what do the Bucks need to with the Darren Fox? Right?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I think it's more that's more Stephen Castle and and
the number two pick versus Dearon Fox. It just feels
like Daron Fox is kind of there, yep, like he's
a he's a Spur.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
We're just let's skip breakfast, let's get right into this
All NBA. I was just thinking the all NBA teams
came out the only interesting things. It's like, it's like
terrible franchise building news for small market teams like Cay Cunningham,
salary goes up massively. Evan Mobley's contract goes up massively.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Grins it though, Well, the Grizzlies, it's weird.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
On the one hand, you don't really want to give
Jared thirty five percent of your cap, right, so not
that they would have. We don't know if they would have. Anyways,
he has not signed the contract yet. But also was
a bad bit of luck for the Grizzlies because I
think we were hoping he would make the All NBA
so we could sign him, hopefully to a thirty percent
max early avoid und restricted free agency. But I'm looking
(07:26):
at the results and they're fine. They're totally fine. The
one thing that it screams to me once again is
how group think has taken over everything. It's like, I mean,
Jason Tatum like making every like Jason Tatum of course
should be All NBA first Team, But with one hundred
(07:48):
percent of the vote. I kept getting mind blown with
one hundred percent of the vote on guys where it's like,
all right, I get it for Shay and Jokic, yep,
I even kind of get it for Giannis. But after
that we need a little bit diversity of thought. Everyone's
ballot shouldn't look exactly the same, and all these awards
have got it's gotten a little out of control on this.
(08:09):
I guess it.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
You talked about this with the clutch voting.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, I mean, I know, Listen, I faced a little
back last day because Brunson has been incredibly clutch. He's
incredibly clutch. Yeah, like I said over and over and over,
he's a very deserving Clutch Player of the Year winner.
But how he finished with like whatever, ninety one percent
of the first place votes on a very abstract award
when you still have guys like Halliburton out there, When
(08:33):
Halliburton makes every single one of his clutch shots and
get it all season. I was like, this is weird.
How did this end up with such uniformity of thought
and every single thing.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I feel about Donovan Mitchell making first team and.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
It's a regular season award. It's just like how it's
I mean, it is like you look at the Calves
with arguably historic season and it's like, well, you gotta
ge somebody, and it's like, I mean, I honestly thought
that it was weird that like scrolling through there, Garland
barely got any recognition. But of course you just you
(09:09):
pick and choose. You say, all right, it's Mitchell and
MOBILEI and how do we divide the credit? I'm not sure,
but like I don't know just the breakdown of it all.
I thought Lebron being second teams like, okay, would he
have been would he be in second team if they
hadn't traded for Luka Doncic. Here's speaking of the Lakers.
I'm jumping all around. Here's here's a key, here's Dave,
(09:32):
here's a key.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
But start talking about Luca's diet.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
No, it's a kid. No, this is not Luca's diet.
This is a key recession indicator. Uh. You know those
social media things where it's like you have fifteen dollars
to build your dream team. Yeah, and it's like has
the tiers of players and it's like Jannis Jokic, you know,
five dollars. Here's a key recession indicator. I saw one
where Luca was in the four dollar tier.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
WHOA, that's not looking good.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Lakers, Maybe not such a good investment anymore. I know
he's getting in shape, changing that diet.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
We have.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
We have off season muscle watch or what's the opposite
of muscle watch. I don't want to see I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It's like it's like wat yeah, Like and he's where
they had him in white too, and he's got a
nice little tan, so he's really like they're playing with
the cameras. Yeah, and wait till that little vein starts
popping out.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, you just gotta get thrown angles, get Dave again.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
That's why they said Zion to the to the draft
lottery in that tight shirt. They could have I would
have gotten in one a size even smaller than that.
But like, look at how lean and jacked Zion is
before trade season?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Is Zion not? I was so surprised with Zion being
in the lottery, the lottery representative, I thought, I thought
we had all these these It's kind of like momentum.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
They're like, well, you don't want to lose trade leverage, right,
it's new in there. You know, there's no there's no
organizational mandate to trade Zion. Of course not. We're sending
him to the draft lottery. Again, look at how fit
he looks Keith imagine like, what would you give up
(11:16):
for this fit Zion wing?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
You know what's not great about Zion Williamson And when
you go to his basketball reference page, and you have
the season overviews. Yeah, and you see his his yearly stats,
and and it's there's regular season. There's not a tab
for playoffs.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Right, It's just it's just missing nothing.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
There's just nothing there, Like it's not even itty, there's
not even a tab there. I don't I don't know
if I need to drop in the should I drop
in the basketball reference discord? Like, hey, guys, have you
notice there's no playoffs stats for Zion? Is that is
that a thing? Yeah? Anyways, speaking of the playoffs, Dave,
we are staring down the barrel of a thunder. Pair finals,
(12:02):
both teams with three to one leads were recording this
episode on Wednesday, May twenty eighth. The Timberwolves play on
Wednesday night for their lives backs against the Wall the Thunder.
They've been the title favorites basically since they beat the Nuggets,
(12:25):
basically since this round began, and the Celtics and Calves
excused themselves in humiliating fashion, maybe tragic fashion for Celtics,
and then once the Thunder emerged, they still seem to
be trucking right along. Here's the thing that the kind
of blows on mind about the Thunder. I think all
of the criticisms that people levied at them, or like
(12:49):
the concerns that were expressed about the thunder have sort
of come to pass and it doesn't matter. Yeah, you know,
it's like, well, what if what if Aaron Wiggins or
Isaiah Joe can't be depended upon and you need another guy?
And it's like, well, guess what, we don't need another guy,
(13:10):
Like we just what if what if Jalen Williams isn't
good enough? And you're like, well, he's gonna He's gonna
alternate horrific games with amazing games. Yeah, and it's gonna
be enough. So like, none of none of the worries
of like, well, you know, should Presty should he have
went and got someone to fortify the squad? You never
(13:30):
know how long your window's gonna be open. He's like,
what if I red shirt Topich And then it's like, yeah,
it seems like right now it's gonna work out. Is
this just? Uh? Are are we at the beginning of
the long Reign of terror? Slash a dynastic run? Or
well somehow the all NBA, the Max contracts, the super
(13:53):
Max going to Shay finally undo them.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I mean they've got like another few years before it's
even a concern. It feels pretty repeatable. Yeah, I gotta say, like,
this feels like one of these teams that's going to
be able to chew through sixty to sixty five wins
for the next three four years and be in the
top one or two seeds. I mean, you got an
MVP that's literally in his prime with a team perfectly
(14:21):
built around him, and Jalen and Chet are really just
like they're so young and we're watching them get better
as this playoffs goes on. I mean, you know, they
obviously just had like their best combined games for the
Trio ever. It was fantasy. I mean, they scored ninety
five points together. They were doing it on both ends,
(14:41):
you know, especially Jalen and Chet. We're defending really well.
It feels like, just go ahead and pencil them in
second round or Conference finals minimum for the next two
or three years. Obviously, this depends on what happens them
and health plays a role every single year, but man,
(15:04):
they're just so well built and built for the regular
season and the playoffs. They're like they can play eleven
twelve guys all year long.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, that is the Key. I really thought one of
their concerns, if you had to have any concerns beyond
the things I've already stated, it is just looking about
how much they are dependent on Shay, And of course
every team is going to be dependent on their best player.
But it was kind of thinking like if Shay they
don't have him, like what are they like, how can
they hold up? But like you said, they can make
(15:37):
it through any regular season now, I think without them,
also want to think about how long their reign might go.
I feel like you look at the rest of the
league and how like it feels like every other contender
is going to have like a machete taken to them
upcoming where it's like, so the Cavaliers, they've been eliminated
(15:58):
since the last time we record it, and it's like, well,
what do they do? And I think you just run it.
I would get beast running.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Back, got beat up playing two bigs two years in
a row. They got to make change change.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So but also of course they had injury issues, which
was a big part of the story. Also, it's gona
they're gonna be super expensive, Like you can't you know, sorry,
we're gonna be talking Isaac Acorro's salary dumps and things.
You know, it's like they're not gonna run it back
just because the process, the cost is prohibitive. And then
it's like the Celtics, of course, with Tatum's injury and
(16:32):
then their cost, we're now doing things like well Jayalen
Brown get traded. You know, is there are they salaried?
I'm in Porzingis or Drew Holland, so like they're getting
chopped up. Like it's weird too. As I think about
from a Grizzlies podcaster perspective, where I'm like, man, super
underwhelming stuff that the Grizzies have been doing the last
(16:53):
few years, and it's like, but it'd be like third
in the East next year or fourth. They're like who
you're taking? You're taking the Knicks, You're taking the Pacers,
And it's like then it's like, all right, the Calves, yeah,
but like who who else? And then you think about
the Nuggets where the Nuggets get eliminated and you know
they lose by a ton in Game seven, they have
(17:14):
no like no help for you, just like if Jamal
Murray's not going to step up and be a superhero
once Aaron Gordon got hurt. It was like, well that's that.
And they're trying to figure out how to salary up
Michael Porter Jr. And then they're all they're they're asking
postseason questions to their management group, like hey, what are
what are what are some paths forward? How do we
improve next year? And then they they tapped us out
(17:37):
on the wall. It's like internal growth and development. It's
like we need It's like so like the Nuggets out,
they're not they're not getting better, and so I don't know,
I like.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
The Nuggets are a team that has to make a
big trade.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Actually, but there's so many of these teams.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I know. I mean, we're starting to get the news
breakers and the reporters starting to say, this summer is
going to be crazy. This summer is going to be crazy.
I just think that the Luca trade Luca trade has
opened the door for pretty much anything. And it started
probably with the Karl Anthony Towns trade where they blew
up you know that team, and that was a financial
(18:12):
obviously a financial decision for them, but I did. I
just think when you're looking to this summer, the Celtics
five hundred million dollars pay roll, financial decision. Will they
trade Jalen Brown. We've got like a lot of questions.
I don't even I don't think that Yanni's necessarily If anything,
it's gotten less likely in the last two or three
(18:36):
weeks that Yiannis gets traded because of this sort of uh,
what could happen over the summer? Like could could the
Bucks get a guy?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I mean, the funniest, the funniest thing, but the funniest
thing about all of this possible massive player movement, and
I hate to keep coming back to the Luka Dantech trade.
The funniest thing to me is like, if Nico Harrison
just would have chilled out this season, you could have
traded Luca Doctis for Giannis. Yeah, you know, they could
(19:08):
have gotten Yannis. It's like that would have been an
easy trade. He would have like we would have asked
for anything more like let's one, let's one for one,
let's do it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I don't yeah, it's or better yet, could have traded
for Giannis to play with, to play with.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
No, no, no, you can't. You gotta you gotta have defense
wins championships. Dave can't have you know, it's going back.
I'm sorry. I thought of so many things, and then
I got distracted with the the call Anthony Town's trade,
Like if it doesn't work out, if if the Knicks
lose to the Pacers, if the Timberwolves lose to the thunder,
(19:51):
what would it take to get a third place? Game?
Going to get because we we want to see that
random versus Towns a storyline. I mean, think about the
CBA and like the teams being like, man, we could
add I.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Don't know how much do we switch to metal?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Five hundred million in b R. I just I don't
know how how much money have you made?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
League? Well?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What the what's the television revenue? Yeah? For a Knicks
Timberwolves best of three?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Come on for third place?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
We get?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, the bronze.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
You gotta be proud of that hardware. Just gonna get
get a third place?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
The NBA would make them hang the banner.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Also, man if if the Pacers the Pacers making the finals,
is I mean, of course they've They've done an amazing
job of building their roster, and of course Haliburton has
has really stepped up. And I think it's interesting how
(20:52):
they would be like that they're a non luxury tax team,
Like I mean you credit the Knicks or pay the
Turtles are paying a ton this year usually to compete
most of our recent title winners, they're almost all luxury
text paying teams. The Pacers are are an interesting one
where it's like, if you make the finals, would they
(21:13):
finally step up in the following seasons? And is this,
I mean, is what the PACER's doing? And maybe it's
a bigger question about the way the CBA is going,
like is this the blueprint slash? Is it replicable? I think,
oh no, it's not replicable.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
No, yeah, okay, I mean the past, Like you know,
we talked about this on the show today. Actually it's
very funny if you go back and look at the
last time they had a very high like a top
ten draft pick or something like that. I mean it
was like the eighties, it was like ninety eighty nine
or something. They just don't they don't take it down.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
But even like they're high draft pick now like Matherin
like comes off the bench or whatever. Yeah, they've never
take Yeah, they really.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Just they nailed the like the Paul George trade, they
nailed that, and then obviously they landed on gold with
the Halliburton. You know for Sabona's trade and then the
Seacam trade put him over the top. That was the
thing that took him from probably fighting for just like
the sixth seed to this is a team that's making
(22:20):
the finals, the conference finals now two years in a row.
Was that Siakam trade. And then they just like Miles Turner, Man,
they had Miles Turner. They were ahead of the game
on having this stretch big who could block shots, and
it finally paid off when they got the team around him,
you know what I mean, and he becomes this sort
of lesser important player but still like the key to
the entire thing. But can you find like ten guys
(22:42):
that buy into the system the way that the Pacers did.
That's that's the task. Man.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Well, I think it's getting Yeah, it's getting the the
all NBA level guy and basically two of them. I
feel like Sacam just gets ignored way too much, like
when I watched so many of their games, Just like
Shochum is incredible and he's like a playoff. I mean,
he's absolutely like your sixteen game player. I remember last
(23:09):
year my takeaway it was like, I know, Haliburton gets
a lot of attention, but Shockham, it's awesome. And now Haliburton,
Haliburton is this player who goes through these it's I
guess it's all injury related, but he goes through these
these six month stretches where you're like, this guy's this
(23:29):
guy's one of the best players, this guy's top ten player,
this guy's the absolutely play taking point guard every team needs.
And then you're then like then later you're like, oh,
maybe I was wrong. Then he has like a thirty
game stretch. You're like, eh, not that great because but
now he's on the he's on the swing up again,
like he barely made thirteen All NBA cause he was
wasn't that amazing this year? And now in the postseason
(23:52):
you're like, this guy never turns the basketball over and
he's he's blown by everybody and he hits all his
clutch shots and so he's on that upswing again. Yeah,
Haliburt has been incredible. But then also like you got
to give their front office credit with I mean, not
only do you trade for your two best players, which
is I feel like a rarity for teams that actually
get really good, but then you trade for the Nie Smith,
(24:16):
the uh no one wanted him because he was so old.
I remember that draft the Grizzlies took Kennedy Chandler like
like two picks later, because like those are like the
point guards around that around that draft on the mock drafts,
they were like, in.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
They wouldn't want to create a point guard controversy by
having Andrew Nemhart on the bench because that guy needs
to play.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, and even getting even identifying Obie Topping, and they
had a clear vision where they wanted to fast break
and they're like, hey, Obie top is one of the
best guys in transition. They even picked up Bruce Brown.
They were like, he's one of the best guys in transition.
Back when they they they did that overpay, They're like,
we have cap space, let's just pay them all this money,
get them away, then use.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
That great overpay. Is the thing about Oklahoma City, by
the way, with with Hartenstein, that fat contract is sitting there,
so you know, like he's got a player option I
think after next season, but that that big money is
sitting there for the next move that they want to
(25:22):
make if they're looking to do it.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Hartstein is so important, but also Hardenstein. Hartenstein arguably, if
there's a single player that you could make a weird
argument swung this season in the NBA if the thunder
go on and win the title. Yeah, and you're like,
if James Dolan had taken some of his sphere money.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
The Knicks really miss.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Instead, just screw it, I'm paying a ton of lecture ducks, Like,
I mean, I can't remember that they weren't able. Were
they able to match if they wanted to, like the
money that I know it would have been a huge
tax bill.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, I can't remember if there was a limitation a
lot of money. Uh, I don't know if they could
have done.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
It when you said, I'm talking about legally the CBO
would have allowed them to pay Hardenstein.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Well, like them losing Hardenstein, like really it sapped a
lot of my enthusiasm. I remember, for in the mkale
Bridges trade, I was like, Oh, this trade's awesome. It's
maybe it's an overpay when you just look at a
vacuum the number of picks for McKale bridges, but with
this roster it seems awesome. And then when Hardenstein left,
you're like, oh, I like it less now, and they
turned it for Cat and it got fun again. The
(26:40):
the other thing that kind of swings this that PACER's
Nick series. I mean, it's still a toss up, and
it's still like there are a lot of fortuitous events
that led to the Pacers getting there, to lead to
the the Knicks getting there the next staying healthy, not
having to face I mean whatever, I don't know. I
guess you give the nixt credit for coming back and
those twenty point comebacks against the Celtics. Sure, but like
(27:03):
it's wild. It's wild the number of swings we've had,
even the Pacers. If the Pacers don't have that miracle,
I mean, that game won is one of the all
time just I mean, obviously everyone's pulling out the stats.
No team had ever come back in the playoff play
era had come back from thirteen down with two minutes
and forty five seconds left before and the Haliburton shot
(27:25):
bouncing fifteen feet in the air off the rim and
then going in. Like, if that just swings one way,
the Knicks are in a pretty good spot right now, right,
but of course they're not.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I mean, if they just pull off the win, yeah again,
if it's too two, yeah, you feel like they did
such a good job actually even in the game last night,
of dragging the Pacers into the mud, like in the
third quarter when when the Knicks started getting to the
free throw line and it just totally killed the Pacers
rhythm and momentum on offense. Yeah, I mean the Knicks
(27:58):
they can grind a team down, but the truth is
that the Pacers actually just did it faster, right like
you Nee Smith is his big body, like uh, Brunson
goes over two in the fourth quarter in time it mattered, Hm,
you know, just war them. They wore them out.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Also, we're getting this weird, this like kind of difference
between the time when the Knicks have only one of
Kat or Brunson on the court and they're like trying
to figure out.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
The and they're so much better with just Cat the.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Ways to coexist, And you wonder if that's a matchup
dependent thing or how do they not figure this out sooner?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I mean, are you gonna you can't bench Jailen brun
And I.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Don't know why you'd want to, because he's come through
for you so often over and over and over when
it matters. Are our clutch player of the year.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
But he has been put into every single Like I
think the stat was like he's like thirty a game
pick and rolls that the Pacers are putting him in
thirty thirty one something around there. They're just eating him alive.
You know, he offers very little resistance on the defensive end.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yep, Dave, let's take a break and we'll come back
talk a little bit more about this beautiful game. All right, So, Dave,
if the Knicks don't pull off a miracle three to
(29:37):
one come back, do they just say, hey, bad luck,
we running back? Do they have to make? Is this
like is does Tims get fired because he didn't figure
out enough about his team yet? Like what are they
supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I mean, I think I don't know. It's an interesting question, right,
Like you always got to ask, like who do they
hire that's better? Sure, and there are people out there
that maybe is an upcourse, but also at a certain
point you have to say, we've been doing this this
way and running into the exact same problem for years now,
(30:14):
is this like you just you're getting incrementally closer and
maybe next year is the year that you break through
with the same same problem, or or is there going
to be a sea change, and maybe this is the
series that opens up the eyes of Tom Thibodeau to
realize that you need to have ten guys ready to
play when you get to the playoffs. I don't know.
I mean, I think it's a Knicks question. The more
(30:36):
important thing is is there a CAAA client that's a
bigger upgrade? Right like that? That's the real question. And
I just don't know. I mean, it's tough, man, because
I always say coaches really like it. It can make
a huge difference to fire your coach, or it can
make very little difference. And with the Knicks, I don't
know that it makes a huge difference because of the personnel.
(30:57):
And maybe it's better just roll it back with Tom Phibbert,
expect chemistry to work things out. Maybe you can make
a trade during the summer or mid season that add
some depth. I don't. I don't know. But it's more
of a personnel problem than a coaching problem in my opinion,
although there's big coaching problems on offense. It's kind of
like a convoluted answer. But yeah, I mean where they're
(31:19):
at right like, this is the big question mark is
can they get better?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I mean, obviously making to the conference finals. Is a
is a good result for this next team when you
consider the circumstance and if you end up losing to
a Pacers team that no one thought was really a
titles contender, I think coming into the playoffs. Actually, I
gotta find out. I got to hit up. I've like
I've been given Friend of the Show Kaitlyn Cooper her space,
(31:47):
like she PACER's blowing up. She's doing awesome. But I
do want to know straight from her, like when when
did she think the Pacers could make the finals? Like,
like when the playoffs started, did she have this much
enthusiasm and belief in the squad? Because I mean they
were not a prohibitive favorite. They were favored over the Bucks,
(32:10):
but it was split. It wasn't that they were not
a huge betting favorite. They were just came was like,
I don't think they were even mind US two hundred
or something.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Like I've picked them in every series along the way. Yeah,
this is I mean, this is a fifty win team
that I thought was better than their record, even like
if you look they finished the season thirty four and fourteen.
I think in their last forty eight games they were
trending toward to me being a much higher like a
higher seed than they were. I think they were obviously
(32:39):
better than the Knicks by the time we get to
this point, but I liked the matchup. I liked them
as a matchup, not necessarily that they were a much
better team. I think that they got the luck of
the draw was great for them. They got the Bucks,
who were obviously weak the Calves there the Pacers are
kind of a unique problem for the Calves in particular
(33:00):
to solve, and then obviously the Knicks just don't have
enough guys. But I don't know, man, I was actually
looking because I texted, I don't know. It's probably the
beginning of the series against the Calves. Oh, I think
the Pacers can go to the finals. And this was
before we knew that Tatum was going to go down.
But the Pacers had played the Celtics so well the
last couple of years even that I felt like that
(33:22):
they had a good a good shot. It doesn't help
because I'm you know, my eyes aren't on him as
tight as as Caitlin is. But maybe that helped me
kind of realize what I was looking at a little
bit sooner in the playoffs, but I don't know, man,
anytime you've got a team, like look at what the
Thunder did in Game one of the Conference finals. They
played ten guys in the first quarter. That is that
is a flex for the team to be able to
(33:45):
do that. Hey, you know what, We're gonna find out
which of these guys are gonna work in this series.
And if you look at the Pacers, Tony Bradley is
playing big minutes and Shepherd is out there after coming back,
It's crazy what they're pulling on off man.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I mean they're literally missing Isaiah Jackson, Like, yeah, I
can't believe that they decided. I I'll be I'll be honest,
did not know Tony Bradley was on the Pacers when
they're like, why would you he wouldn't playing when they
when when when they moved on from Thomas Bryant. Because
I mean, I'm watching the Pacers advance, I'm watching them
(34:20):
beat the Calves, and I'm like, they're paying they're playing
Thomas Bryant, Laker legend.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
They abandoned him in the next round.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
If all right, swapping conferences. If the Timberwolves aren't able
to stave off elimination, they also have their roster questions,
their salary questions, like what do you do with Nazarene?
I can hit the open market. The cale Alexander Walker,
who had like the game of his life. I mean,
(34:52):
the guys. The guy's a good, useful player, but he's
had some struggles in the postseason and he's not like
really a guy who shot has been able or hasn't
been dependable in the postseason. But maybe it's going up
against his cousin, like he's having he's having a great
series and his Game four performance was outrageous. He's a
(35:16):
free agent. So I don't know what the Timberwolves are
able to do.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I mean, it's they got to address the Randall stuff
because like as we've seen it in the playoffs, like
it's just it's up and down.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
You know, I don't know what I mean. I know,
I know the thunder an amazing defense, and I know
they were they were doubling Ant a lot, but like
all the role players came through, the Minnesota team had
an incredible offensive explosion. I mean in the fourth quarter
and in the second half, even with Ant not coming
(35:50):
up with the biggest stats. Uh, he didn't make us
three pointers. But like Randal not even being played because
he was so ineffective with what we've seen already this postseason,
right where he redeemed his entire like postseason career, his
failures before being on the timber Wolves. Yeah, it's a
that's a that's that's a question. And maybe it's just
tough when you play the Thunder and they're so outrageously good.
(36:15):
I don't want, I don't want to look ahead, but
like briefly indulge if it's Pacers Thunder in the finals, which,
first of all, Dave confession, Never in my life did
I think there would be an NBA Finals game within
five hours of my house. But never in my life
(36:37):
that I think within a five hour drive of Nashville.
This is a shot at the Grizzlies, the Hawks, and
the Pacers that I think they're being NBA Finals. I
know back in the nineties, early two thousands, the Pacers
had this long stretch of being amazing, but still those
are three squads where I'm like, they're they're I think
you could argue they're all well run organization, but they're
(37:01):
not the big boys. And and but now with the
Pacers possibly breaking through, I'm a made but anyways, looking ahead,
will the Thunder be able to contain the transition points
of the Pacers because that is one of the strengths
of I mean, it's the strength of both teams. Yeah,
(37:22):
the Thunder were the best at stopping fast breaks all season,
and then they're going to force turnovers. Meanwhile, Halliburton art
will be the best at not turning the basketball over. Right,
just coming off this was it fourteen assists, no turnover.
It was a zero turnover. Fifteen assists, zero turnover. He is,
there's been. He's like, he's like, what if Tias Jones
(37:45):
was good? You know, and never and never because like
the tighest Jones thinking, oh it never turns the basketball over.
It's like, yeah, but come on, you.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Know, is Tias Jones is like six feet tall. He's
not allowed to turn the ball over, right.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
He's not true too, But like just the volume of
passes we're talking about that Halliburton's doing, oh yeah, compared
to anybody else, it's unbelievable. Meanwhile, the Thunder are the
best turn over forcing team. It's a fun mismatch.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Hey, Rick Carlisle, veteran coach, been there before, knows how
to push all these buttons. Mark Dagnault learning his way.
The storylines for this, for this finals is actually very.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Cool potential finals. You're right, well, I don't want to
get burned, Dave.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
There have you okay, have you seen anything out of
the Wolves or Knicks that makes you feel like they
can dig out from a three to one hole. The
Pacers haven't lost the games in a row. The Pacers
haven't lost three games in a row. They lost three
games in a row in early March. They haven't lost
consecutive games since then.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
None of those stats mean to think fair. I mean,
the Knicks have been in these games. True, the Knicks
have lost in spectacular fashion, and many of them the
thunder and they lost, but forty two, they've had a
couple of I mean, these are close games coming down
to the end of the games. We have people wanting
to change the foul rules based on how far how
(39:08):
these games ended. Dave. I know a lot of times
I act like there's there's there's an easy fix to
a complex problem. We all do it. It's not great. I
think I have an easy fix of tanking. But they're
still let's be real, there's some drawbacks. I would love
to see the NBA foul rules adjusted to more yeah,
(39:29):
help out the defense. But like, none of these things
have simple solutions, And I feel like people are always
acting like they do like this this. Oh yeah, we
got to get rid of the fouling down three, dah,
I haven't. There's no simple fix.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
It's a there's a downstream effect.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
All of them have huge downstream effects.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
And I would like to see that whole end of
game fouling, free throw game, take it out, like, just
take it out from both teams, even the team that's losing.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
So people say that, you say that, that's your opinion,
but like, this is what we've gotten. All these amazing comebacks,
they're all from this. Sure, the Pacers having three miracle
comeback wins this postseason run are because of fouling. It's
because of fouling.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
There.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
You don't If you don't have the fouling, none of
these things happen. So like, why would we want to
get rid of that? Saying you don't want to foul
up three? I mean, one way we can fix it.
You could go back to continuation, Right, we used to
have continuation. The defenders used to be terrified of touching
the offensive player if you were up by three, because
if that guy just picks the ball up and shoots
(40:39):
his three fouls. We changed that because of James Harden
and Chris Paul doing the rip through moves Damian Lillard,
it was good we changed that. Now it's become much
easier to foul without allowing a three shot. I mean
there's pros and cons. It's just back and forth.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Exactly, you're going to change something one way or the other. Yeah,
I just I do agree though, Like, look, it's it's
about the TV product, not the game when we're talking
about this. Uh, I think there's a differentiation. I would
rather watch guys be able to at least attempt to
three coring down three. The defense being able to get
an advantage through fouling is something that I think should
(41:18):
be looked at. And but again it's both sides, though
I think it's also the trailing team. I don't love
that either. Uh, there's there's got to be a solution
or maybe there's not, but there's there should at least
be a conversation about a solution because I don't happen
this happens often. They haven't really changed or adjusted the
foul rules or the free throw rules all that much.
(41:40):
I mean it took them. It took them like fifteen
years after the three point line was invented. To add
the third free throw on a three shot a terrible idea, terrible.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
It needs to be.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Undone maybe, but but also then you would have a
situation where it's like, oh, we're going to foul the
hell out of staff when he's shooting threes.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
So the to briefly explain to any listener why I
feel the three shot foul is terrible. If you foul
a three point shooter, the expected points from that it's
like two point seven or two point five or two
point four, which is way more than the expected value
of a wide open three point shot. So there's a
(42:22):
fair point to be made that all three point shots
should be a two point shot foul, except for the
end of games when you are down by three, then
we have to carve it out. So again, you're right,
there should be a conversation about even this fouling. Win
up three, win down three. But then we get to
the uh, it's all group think. Now, I'm just terrified.
It's all groot. Everyone's just following whatever is Zach Lower
(42:45):
whoever says well, I mean I think I mean Zachlo's
he's brilliant, great guy. But this is different things on
the quality of basketball or nothing new.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
It's just that this is now a new year, universal
strategy that every team does. Like that's the only thing
that's changed.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Also, a lot of times we talk about like hack
a shack was bad for TV.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, are we sure?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Because like it's kind of riveting when we're watching to
see if Mitchell Robinson is gonna make his free.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Throws those line drives.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Maybe it's not basketball shout out Mitchell Robinson on a
pretty hot streak right now, but like it's kind of riveting.
Is Steven Adams gonna make this free throw? Will the
Warriors get back.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
In the game?
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I don't know, It's kind of fun. Dave. Let's answer
a we Gotta we gotta listener submitted question. Uh, this
is acrossant question?
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Nah any questions?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yes? Are you going to finish that? Quass?
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Knock yourself out?
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Bobby Peyton wants to know this is this is unrelated
to the current playoff teams. Bobby Peyton wants to know
what's the best team where Jonathan Kaminga would make sense.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Man makes sense like fit on the basketball court.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
That's tough, all right, unrelated to salary. To me, one
of the best teams where johnthan Comingo would make sense
is uh the Indiana Pacers playing twenty minutes a night
just coming off the bench, just coming off the bench.
Maybe maybe taking I mean had the biggest impact of
(44:45):
this playoffs, but just having a bigger guy who is
just a finisher, Yeah, like another Obie Toppin' ish, like
unbelievable athlete, just gets out and goes and you know,
on any possession that takes less than five seconds, he's
a great out of having your team because he's going
to score. Maybe, But also.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
We're about the Wizards. Why it's kind of well, but
if you're saying the best team that he fits on,
the Wizards probably aren't it. It's more like, I don't know,
like he could score, right, so score unbelievable. He could
he play you know, three four for the Miami Heat
and being upgrade probably helps them out, depends on.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
He needs to. But I think so if we talk
about Kaminga, big downsides you shooting no defense and then
like the basketball awareness whatever his NBA. I don't know
what NBA Live calls it or or two K. NBA
Live used to be like offensive awareness. It's all a
little bit low. The field of the game's a little
(45:48):
bit low. But the guy is just like a bucket
who just you feel like you could be able to
unleash him. But I do think he's to be surrounded
by shooting and a lot of shooting, which is like
when you say Miami, I'm like, not enough shooting, Yeah,
Wiggins and Bam and nope. And then it's like you
think about like a team like the Rocket Snow they
(46:10):
already have. He's got to be surrounded by shooting, and
I don't know exactly where that is. It's a team
that is a team that needs a three slash four
that needs scoring, that already has shooting around him. Like
I don't that makes it hardgo.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
It's like maybe he could play like for the.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Bulls they don't have any forwards.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, because they just don't have anybody who kind of
fills that role. You could see him at the four,
maybe next to next to Ooch. But I honestly, there's
not a lot of really good fits for him. I mean,
just looking through the league and you wind up looking
at Utah. What about the Pistons.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
What about the Pistons. I mean, I know they have
they kind of got Tobias Harris and Holland on the
on the ascendancy and and a sar.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
The thing is Kumingo would be worse Tobias Harris. Yeah,
and I just don't, I don't. I don't see it. Man.
That not working out for the Warriors. It's gonna set
them back because I just don't know what they can
get for.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Kamena Santi al Dama.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Straight up, he would be interesting for the Grizzlies.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
He would be I mean, you don't love it with jaws,
not for spacing, but I mean just a three slash
four who would just bucket some points. And it's like, yeah,
I don't but yeah, it's it's hard.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Kuminga is a weird player because I think we probably
we probably over value him a little bit because he
was on the Warriors. I don't know how the league
looks at him. It's gonna be an interesting summer.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I mean, do you just think of the spots who
were bereft of talent and it's like, okay, why not?
Why not? The Hornets. Why not the Wizards if I mean,
then you get into Hornets.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
I don't want to bring him in because you've got
Brandon Miller, you know, you and LaMelo who are gonna
have the ball. I think Kaminga needs to he needs touches.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
It's the crowded front court, is.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
All I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what
if he winds up in Brooklyn. I just don't know,
Like where where.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Brooklyn's players, like whi's Brooklyn players? Team in two years
is Cam Johnson.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
There's a bunch of weird teams in the league. Claxton's
gonna get clon.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
I mean, what if he goes on the What if
the Cavaliers once they move out, Jared Allen get a
little more spacing, get off. I don't know know, but
I'm saying, if you don't have Jared Allen, at least
you have a I don't know, he gets up and
down the court. It's it's a hard It's a good
question because it's a hard it's hard to find a
(48:50):
landing spot. If you have a great idea for a
landing spot, hit up Jonathan Kminge's agent. They could probably
use a little of advice. Anyways, Thanks for the question,
Bobby Payton. I really appreciate you and all the other
supporters over at patreon dot com slash fast break breakfast.
(49:11):
All right, Dave. Now time for the awards segment of
the program, the International Stackhouse of Pancakes Award given to
the worst performance in a box score. This week, we
have three nominees and a skip. All the honorable mentions.
(49:32):
Three nominees, Dave, as they occurred chronologically over the past
a couple of weeks. We have og An Andobi in
a loss to the Celtics, a blowout loss to the Celtics.
Og one for twelve from the field, add six points,
eight rebounds to assist, one block, two turnovers, three personal fouls.
(49:54):
Then we add nose read in. Oh, that sort that's
not chronologically. Next up chronologically Jalen Williams. Another terrible Jalen
Williams game three for sixteen and is lost to the
Nuggets three for sixteen, six points, seven rebounds, ten assists,
three seals, that's nice, one block, three turn over, three
(50:15):
personal fouls. And then we had nos Reed naz Reid
with a one for eleven against the Thunder four points,
eight boards, four assists, one block returners. So are three nominees.
Og Anobi one for twelve six points, eight boards, Jalen
Williams three for sixteen six points, seven boards, ten assists,
(50:37):
and nas Read four points eight boards with a one
for eleven stat line.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Nos.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Yeah it's either Nas or OG.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
I think it's Nos. They just needed they needed Nos.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, tough, tough, tough game for NOAs Red. Yeah, they've
needed it's been Temples are a strange squad. I mean
they're a good score, very good. Like we've been watching
these playoffs being like, man, Julius Raynold's really showing up.
I wish like Dante DiVincenzo would show up, Like if
John de Vincinzo was making shots that they'd be good again.
(51:15):
It's like, oh, you can't depend on the cale Alexander
Walker in the postseason. Now those guys are playing well,
and like, oh, it's like nas Reed, who was like
a playoff hero folk hero, it's not really giving you much.
And then it was like Gobert, Gobert is doing nothing
and then Gobert have a huge game. Yeah, it's all
over the board. Also, Mike Conley just skates by everyone
likes Mike Conley just skates by shooting thirty percent all
(51:35):
the time. Just just no one's saying anything. He's old
less his heart, Yeah he is.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
He is. He's very resemble that remark.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Yeah exactly. Anyways, Dave, what do you if if either
the Timberwolves or Nicks come back, which one? And and
because of who who's the here, who's the folk hero?
Who does this?
Speaker 2 (52:02):
It'd be the Knicks.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Because of.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
It'd have to be Jalen Brunson, okay, or Cat honestly,
I mean, because the thing is that Cat has outplayed
in my opinion, they've they've outplayed the lineups with Cat
and without Brunson have outplayed the Bronson and Cat lineups
and the Brunson no Cat lineups. So maybe it's Cat.
Maybe it's Cat doing what he did the other day,
(52:29):
you know, putting up thirty five a game for the
next three games and Brunston still getting his thirty or
whatever that that does it. So maybe it's Cat. I mean,
he is playing, He's gonna be playing on you know,
a hobbled knee. So does should he do the Willis
Reid thing? But just do that as his intro, like
(52:50):
you know, start the game still, but but walk out
from the.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Here's here's what I'm looking at, Dave, the Knicks. Let's
see the Knicks. When Josh Hart plays forty five or
more minutes in the postseason seven to one all time,
only one loss was in overtime. I think. I don't
(53:16):
think the move is benching Josh Hart. I think the
move is playing Josh Hart every single minute. I don't
know who. I don't know who loses. I think Josh
Hart has to be on the court at all times.
Josh Hart is going to be the playoff hero. Josh
Hart leads him back three straight wins. Josh Hart folk hero.
He ends up co starring with Timothy Shallomey and Ben
(53:37):
Stiller in an upcoming Apple TV project.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
I'm guessing written by AI.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
When's the last time? Are are there other Knicks fans traveling?
Is it just Stiller, Salome and then Spike?
Speaker 2 (53:54):
I guess, I don't know. What do you think the
NBA's budget is on this? The celebrity thing?
Speaker 1 (54:02):
Uh? Yeah? I mean how much are is the NBA
paying travel expenses?
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Here? For sure? Okay? Everyone has everyone has celebrity brain.
I love the basketball games more Keith because Ben Stiller
is there, There were.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Who, there were some celebrities like they were doing pacer
celebrities and I'm like, who it was? A was it
John Mellencamp? Who does do they show? That was like
triple H there?
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Yeah? Which is I don't even know. I don't I
don't get that one.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Have we not had? I don't feel like I've seen
a bunch of like, where's Debtliffe? Shrimp at he's good
enough for but he's not good enough Davis?
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Okay, they had.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
George Hill, Marvin Harrison.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
I didn't see him up there.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
I've never seen him before anyways, Dave, thanks for hanging out,
good talk. As always, listeners, you guys are the best.
Thanks for listening and remember breakfast is the most important.
Thank you.
All right, and welcome to Fast Break Breakfast NBA podcast.
My name is Keith Parrish and I'm here once again
with my buddy through the miracle of computer phone. You're
with Dave Defour. Also, I believe with your dog that
(00:28):
yeah here, I can't hear crawled up on the couch.
I'm watching if you're on YouTube, So it looks like
a to me, it looks like a giant cat.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, he looks like a tiger. Yeah, but he's like
ninety five pounds and he just finished eating breakfast.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
So that's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Perfect timing, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, we're here with you and your dog. How how's
life Dave?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Great? Thanks for good Yeah, seasons winding down. It's been
fun summertime, you know, rolling in it's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Here is rolling I mean you know what, Dave, I'm
gonna be in your neighborhood in like three weeks.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Oh that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Have big, big Fast Break Breakfast family news. We're going
to Disneyland. That's right, going to Disneyland. One of the
one of the huge benefits of having a team uh
long eliminated from the playoffs and with no draft picks
to talk about. I'm just kidding. Honestly, if the Grizzlies
(01:27):
had like three first round picks, I'm still would be
going on vacation with the family. But I'm gonna be
out in your neck of the woods. Actually, I'll We're
gonna be there for the first round of the NBA Draft.
Maybe that'll be the night John Meran gets traded. We
can do an emergency an emergency episode.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I think I'm taking the week of the draft off
from work.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, well, like, look we have Andrew Schlecht and Alex Spears,
they do draft stuff all year. Yeah, Espera Henna like
is super into the draft, and for me, I catch
up one of those guys after they've been drafted, starting
in summer league, because it just gives me a It's
more organized for me that way, Like I don't need
to know who they are until until I know what
(02:14):
team they're on, and then I can kind of get
a better sense of learning who the who they actually
are as players speak.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Speaking of the draft, and this will be a lead
story on this week's Past break Breakfast, where of course
in the midst of the conference finals, but obviously the
first three teams in the lottery who jumped up all
kind of a little bit exciting, a lot of interesting angles.
Get the Mavericks taking Cooper flag. You got the Spurs
(02:40):
getting pretty lucky, and take this Dylan Harper guy, and
then and then the Sixers. So the Sixers maybe they're
gonna trade their pick. Who knows they're win now? Also sure,
But I'm thinking about the Spurs, and I'm thinking about
how lots of crumbs are being dropped among the NBA
news breakers, news creators, about this being a summer that's
(03:05):
gonna be full of fireworks, not just the parish family
goes to La not just me and Dave meeting up
in the West Coast. Also of course being in a
summerly together. No, there's probably gonna be a lot of
big trades. I thought of a great trade that I
love that I don't see any downside to. And this
might be me going back to the well too often
(03:26):
of a team. I keep thinking about dearon Fox for
Kevin Durant, who says, no, what's the downside?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Spurs probably said no, So I think there was interest
there as we're hearing.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So we're hearing this interest. I think obviously, I think suns.
That's as simple. Oh absolutely, But yeah, yeah, that's that's amazing.
I feel like the son's got to include stuff to
get the Spurs on board. The Spurs pitch. It clarifies
some things. If you have if Harper is a one,
I don't know if this is where you and me
(04:05):
don't know our draft guys that well, yeah, but like
you got Harper, you got Castle. And again this goes
back to my I don't love Dearon Fox. I think
he's pretty good, but I don't love it. And it's like,
now you got lucky with this second pick of the draft,
you got Wimby. Let's just you get a you get
out of jail free sorta with this this Fox trade
(04:25):
you made, bringing men, bringing Kevin Durant. Have a couple
amazing years with Kevin Durant. Maybe, I mean, maybe there's
something even better. They can make it flip. But I
can't find other teams to trade Daron Fox to. This
is the This is the conundrum of all kinds of trades,
trying to find out which teams because only playoff teams
trade for guys. Teams teams with futures don't trade for
(04:46):
people making money or with or with teams that are
on the rebuild. You know they're not. They never trade
for actual good players, right, So I don't know. That's
why to me, it was like a clear cut the
Suns need a bri out of this, and I mean,
Dearon Fox and Debit book together seems amazing and they've
turned the end of Kevin Durant's career into all right,
(05:09):
you got a near all star point guard to pair
with your All NBA level Devin Booker officially not all
NBA only got two. I saw two third team All
NBA votes for Dona. Anyway, how do we get the
Spurs on board to this? What else needs to happen
for this?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I mean, is kd the kind of guy you want
to bring in at this point? You know what I mean?
Like it feels like they're doing, if nothing else, they're
doing a young and competitive team, right, Like they're gonna
probably move away from Chris Paul, which makes sense. He's
you know, forty. I think Daron Fox is probably sticking around.
(05:48):
I don't don't see him moving him all right.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
It'd be awkward because that's when they traded a lot of.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Stuff for him, right, if they were gonna move him,
I feel like they would have to get a guy
that is younger than Kevin Durant, you know, like sh
if they were like if it was a part of
a Giannis trade or something like that, I could see it,
but I do don't see it.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
For oy, I in trouble seeing it. It obviously makes worse.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Phoenix even have to add for.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
The honest Ryan Dunn, I don't know. Yeah, I have
no clue what else they could they could add the
If it's the Spurs trying to get involved in in
the Honest package, then that's interesting. But it's like, what
what do the Bucks need to with the Darren Fox? Right?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I think it's more that's more Stephen Castle and and
the number two pick versus Dearon Fox. It just feels
like Daron Fox is kind of there, yep, like he's
a he's a Spur.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
We're just let's skip breakfast, let's get right into this
All NBA. I was just thinking the all NBA teams
came out the only interesting things. It's like, it's like
terrible franchise building news for small market teams like Cay Cunningham,
salary goes up massively. Evan Mobley's contract goes up massively.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Grins it though, Well, the Grizzlies, it's weird.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
On the one hand, you don't really want to give
Jared thirty five percent of your cap, right, so not
that they would have. We don't know if they would have. Anyways,
he has not signed the contract yet. But also was
a bad bit of luck for the Grizzlies because I
think we were hoping he would make the All NBA
so we could sign him, hopefully to a thirty percent
max early avoid und restricted free agency. But I'm looking
(07:26):
at the results and they're fine. They're totally fine. The
one thing that it screams to me once again is
how group think has taken over everything. It's like, I mean,
Jason Tatum like making every like Jason Tatum of course
should be All NBA first Team, But with one hundred
(07:48):
percent of the vote. I kept getting mind blown with
one hundred percent of the vote on guys where it's like,
all right, I get it for Shay and Jokic, yep,
I even kind of get it for Giannis. But after
that we need a little bit diversity of thought. Everyone's
ballot shouldn't look exactly the same, and all these awards
have got it's gotten a little out of control on this.
(08:09):
I guess it.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
You talked about this with the clutch voting.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, I mean, I know, Listen, I faced a little
back last day because Brunson has been incredibly clutch. He's
incredibly clutch. Yeah, like I said over and over and over,
he's a very deserving Clutch Player of the Year winner.
But how he finished with like whatever, ninety one percent
of the first place votes on a very abstract award
when you still have guys like Halliburton out there, When
(08:33):
Halliburton makes every single one of his clutch shots and
get it all season. I was like, this is weird.
How did this end up with such uniformity of thought
and every single thing.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I feel about Donovan Mitchell making first team and.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
It's a regular season award. It's just like how it's
I mean, it is like you look at the Calves
with arguably historic season and it's like, well, you gotta
ge somebody, and it's like, I mean, I honestly thought
that it was weird that like scrolling through there, Garland
barely got any recognition. But of course you just you
(09:09):
pick and choose. You say, all right, it's Mitchell and
MOBILEI and how do we divide the credit? I'm not sure,
but like I don't know just the breakdown of it all.
I thought Lebron being second teams like, okay, would he
have been would he be in second team if they
hadn't traded for Luka Doncic. Here's speaking of the Lakers.
I'm jumping all around. Here's here's a key, here's Dave,
(09:32):
here's a key.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
But start talking about Luca's diet.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
No, it's a kid. No, this is not Luca's diet.
This is a key recession indicator. Uh. You know those
social media things where it's like you have fifteen dollars
to build your dream team. Yeah, and it's like has
the tiers of players and it's like Jannis Jokic, you know,
five dollars. Here's a key recession indicator. I saw one
where Luca was in the four dollar tier.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
WHOA, that's not looking good.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Lakers, Maybe not such a good investment anymore. I know
he's getting in shape, changing that diet.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
We have.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
We have off season muscle watch or what's the opposite
of muscle watch. I don't want to see I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It's like it's like wat yeah, Like and he's where
they had him in white too, and he's got a
nice little tan, so he's really like they're playing with
the cameras. Yeah, and wait till that little vein starts
popping out.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, you just gotta get thrown angles, get Dave again.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
That's why they said Zion to the to the draft
lottery in that tight shirt. They could have I would
have gotten in one a size even smaller than that.
But like, look at how lean and jacked Zion is
before trade season?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Is Zion not? I was so surprised with Zion being
in the lottery, the lottery representative, I thought, I thought
we had all these these It's kind of like momentum.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
They're like, well, you don't want to lose trade leverage, right,
it's new in there. You know, there's no there's no
organizational mandate to trade Zion. Of course not. We're sending
him to the draft lottery. Again, look at how fit
he looks Keith imagine like, what would you give up
(11:16):
for this fit Zion wing?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
You know what's not great about Zion Williamson And when
you go to his basketball reference page, and you have
the season overviews. Yeah, and you see his his yearly stats,
and and it's there's regular season. There's not a tab
for playoffs.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Right, It's just it's just missing nothing.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
There's just nothing there, Like it's not even itty, there's
not even a tab there. I don't I don't know
if I need to drop in the should I drop
in the basketball reference discord? Like, hey, guys, have you
notice there's no playoffs stats for Zion? Is that is
that a thing? Yeah? Anyways, speaking of the playoffs, Dave,
we are staring down the barrel of a thunder. Pair finals,
(12:02):
both teams with three to one leads were recording this
episode on Wednesday, May twenty eighth. The Timberwolves play on
Wednesday night for their lives backs against the Wall the Thunder.
They've been the title favorites basically since they beat the Nuggets,
(12:25):
basically since this round began, and the Celtics and Calves
excused themselves in humiliating fashion, maybe tragic fashion for Celtics,
and then once the Thunder emerged, they still seem to
be trucking right along. Here's the thing that the kind
of blows on mind about the Thunder. I think all
of the criticisms that people levied at them, or like
(12:49):
the concerns that were expressed about the thunder have sort
of come to pass and it doesn't matter. Yeah, you know,
it's like, well, what if what if Aaron Wiggins or
Isaiah Joe can't be depended upon and you need another guy?
And it's like, well, guess what, we don't need another guy,
(13:10):
Like we just what if what if Jalen Williams isn't
good enough? And you're like, well, he's gonna He's gonna
alternate horrific games with amazing games. Yeah, and it's gonna
be enough. So like, none of none of the worries
of like, well, you know, should Presty should he have
went and got someone to fortify the squad? You never
(13:30):
know how long your window's gonna be open. He's like,
what if I red shirt Topich And then it's like, yeah,
it seems like right now it's gonna work out. Is
this just? Uh? Are are we at the beginning of
the long Reign of terror? Slash a dynastic run? Or
well somehow the all NBA, the Max contracts, the super
(13:53):
Max going to Shay finally undo them.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I mean they've got like another few years before it's
even a concern. It feels pretty repeatable. Yeah, I gotta say, like,
this feels like one of these teams that's going to
be able to chew through sixty to sixty five wins
for the next three four years and be in the
top one or two seeds. I mean, you got an
MVP that's literally in his prime with a team perfectly
(14:21):
built around him, and Jalen and Chet are really just
like they're so young and we're watching them get better
as this playoffs goes on. I mean, you know, they
obviously just had like their best combined games for the
Trio ever. It was fantasy. I mean, they scored ninety
five points together. They were doing it on both ends,
(14:41):
you know, especially Jalen and Chet. We're defending really well.
It feels like, just go ahead and pencil them in
second round or Conference finals minimum for the next two
or three years. Obviously, this depends on what happens them
and health plays a role every single year, but man,
(15:04):
they're just so well built and built for the regular
season and the playoffs. They're like they can play eleven
twelve guys all year long.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, that is the Key. I really thought one of
their concerns, if you had to have any concerns beyond
the things I've already stated, it is just looking about
how much they are dependent on Shay, And of course
every team is going to be dependent on their best player.
But it was kind of thinking like if Shay they
don't have him, like what are they like, how can
they hold up? But like you said, they can make
(15:37):
it through any regular season now, I think without them,
also want to think about how long their reign might go.
I feel like you look at the rest of the
league and how like it feels like every other contender
is going to have like a machete taken to them
upcoming where it's like, so the Cavaliers, they've been eliminated
(15:58):
since the last time we record it, and it's like, well,
what do they do? And I think you just run it.
I would get beast running.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Back, got beat up playing two bigs two years in
a row. They got to make change change.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So but also of course they had injury issues, which
was a big part of the story. Also, it's gona
they're gonna be super expensive, Like you can't you know, sorry,
we're gonna be talking Isaac Acorro's salary dumps and things.
You know, it's like they're not gonna run it back
just because the process, the cost is prohibitive. And then
it's like the Celtics, of course, with Tatum's injury and
(16:32):
then their cost, we're now doing things like well Jayalen
Brown get traded. You know, is there are they salaried?
I'm in Porzingis or Drew Holland, so like they're getting
chopped up. Like it's weird too. As I think about
from a Grizzlies podcaster perspective, where I'm like, man, super
underwhelming stuff that the Grizzies have been doing the last
(16:53):
few years, and it's like, but it'd be like third
in the East next year or fourth. They're like who
you're taking? You're taking the Knicks, You're taking the Pacers,
And it's like then it's like, all right, the Calves, yeah,
but like who who else? And then you think about
the Nuggets where the Nuggets get eliminated and you know
they lose by a ton in Game seven, they have
(17:14):
no like no help for you, just like if Jamal
Murray's not going to step up and be a superhero
once Aaron Gordon got hurt. It was like, well that's that.
And they're trying to figure out how to salary up
Michael Porter Jr. And then they're all they're they're asking
postseason questions to their management group, like hey, what are
what are what are some paths forward? How do we
improve next year? And then they they tapped us out
(17:37):
on the wall. It's like internal growth and development. It's
like we need It's like so like the Nuggets out,
they're not they're not getting better, and so I don't know,
I like.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
The Nuggets are a team that has to make a
big trade.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Actually, but there's so many of these teams.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I know. I mean, we're starting to get the news
breakers and the reporters starting to say, this summer is
going to be crazy. This summer is going to be crazy.
I just think that the Luca trade Luca trade has
opened the door for pretty much anything. And it started
probably with the Karl Anthony Towns trade where they blew
up you know that team, and that was a financial
(18:12):
obviously a financial decision for them, but I did. I
just think when you're looking to this summer, the Celtics
five hundred million dollars pay roll, financial decision. Will they
trade Jalen Brown. We've got like a lot of questions.
I don't even I don't think that Yanni's necessarily If anything,
it's gotten less likely in the last two or three
(18:36):
weeks that Yiannis gets traded because of this sort of uh,
what could happen over the summer? Like could could the
Bucks get a guy?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I mean, the funniest, the funniest thing, but the funniest
thing about all of this possible massive player movement, and
I hate to keep coming back to the Luka Dantech trade.
The funniest thing to me is like, if Nico Harrison
just would have chilled out this season, you could have
traded Luca Doctis for Giannis. Yeah, you know, they could
(19:08):
have gotten Yannis. It's like that would have been an
easy trade. He would have like we would have asked
for anything more like let's one, let's one for one,
let's do it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I don't yeah, it's or better yet, could have traded
for Giannis to play with, to play with.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
No, no, no, you can't. You gotta you gotta have defense
wins championships. Dave can't have you know, it's going back.
I'm sorry. I thought of so many things, and then
I got distracted with the the call Anthony Town's trade,
Like if it doesn't work out, if if the Knicks
lose to the Pacers, if the Timberwolves lose to the thunder,
(19:51):
what would it take to get a third place? Game?
Going to get because we we want to see that
random versus Towns a storyline. I mean, think about the
CBA and like the teams being like, man, we could
add I.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Don't know how much do we switch to metal?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Five hundred million in b R. I just I don't
know how how much money have you made?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
League? Well?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What the what's the television revenue? Yeah? For a Knicks
Timberwolves best of three?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Come on for third place?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
We get?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, the bronze.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
You gotta be proud of that hardware. Just gonna get
get a third place?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
The NBA would make them hang the banner.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Also, man if if the Pacers the Pacers making the finals,
is I mean, of course they've They've done an amazing
job of building their roster, and of course Haliburton has
has really stepped up. And I think it's interesting how
(20:52):
they would be like that they're a non luxury tax team,
Like I mean you credit the Knicks or pay the
Turtles are paying a ton this year usually to compete
most of our recent title winners, they're almost all luxury
text paying teams. The Pacers are are an interesting one
where it's like, if you make the finals, would they
(21:13):
finally step up in the following seasons? And is this,
I mean, is what the PACER's doing? And maybe it's
a bigger question about the way the CBA is going,
like is this the blueprint slash? Is it replicable? I think,
oh no, it's not replicable.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
No, yeah, okay, I mean the past, Like you know,
we talked about this on the show today. Actually it's
very funny if you go back and look at the
last time they had a very high like a top
ten draft pick or something like that. I mean it
was like the eighties, it was like ninety eighty nine
or something. They just don't they don't take it down.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
But even like they're high draft pick now like Matherin
like comes off the bench or whatever. Yeah, they've never
take Yeah, they really.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Just they nailed the like the Paul George trade, they
nailed that, and then obviously they landed on gold with
the Halliburton. You know for Sabona's trade and then the
Seacam trade put him over the top. That was the
thing that took him from probably fighting for just like
the sixth seed to this is a team that's making
(22:20):
the finals, the conference finals now two years in a row.
Was that Siakam trade. And then they just like Miles Turner, Man,
they had Miles Turner. They were ahead of the game
on having this stretch big who could block shots, and
it finally paid off when they got the team around him,
you know what I mean, and he becomes this sort
of lesser important player but still like the key to
the entire thing. But can you find like ten guys
(22:42):
that buy into the system the way that the Pacers did.
That's that's the task. Man.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Well, I think it's getting Yeah, it's getting the the
all NBA level guy and basically two of them. I
feel like Sacam just gets ignored way too much, like
when I watched so many of their games, Just like
Shochum is incredible and he's like a playoff. I mean,
he's absolutely like your sixteen game player. I remember last
(23:09):
year my takeaway it was like, I know, Haliburton gets
a lot of attention, but Shockham, it's awesome. And now Haliburton,
Haliburton is this player who goes through these it's I
guess it's all injury related, but he goes through these
these six month stretches where you're like, this guy's this
(23:29):
guy's one of the best players, this guy's top ten player,
this guy's the absolutely play taking point guard every team needs.
And then you're then like then later you're like, oh,
maybe I was wrong. Then he has like a thirty
game stretch. You're like, eh, not that great because but
now he's on the he's on the swing up again,
like he barely made thirteen All NBA cause he was
wasn't that amazing this year? And now in the postseason
(23:52):
you're like, this guy never turns the basketball over and
he's he's blown by everybody and he hits all his
clutch shots and so he's on that upswing again. Yeah,
Haliburt has been incredible. But then also like you got
to give their front office credit with I mean, not
only do you trade for your two best players, which
is I feel like a rarity for teams that actually
get really good, but then you trade for the Nie Smith,
(24:16):
the uh no one wanted him because he was so old.
I remember that draft the Grizzlies took Kennedy Chandler like
like two picks later, because like those are like the
point guards around that around that draft on the mock drafts,
they were like, in.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
They wouldn't want to create a point guard controversy by
having Andrew Nemhart on the bench because that guy needs
to play.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, and even getting even identifying Obie Topping, and they
had a clear vision where they wanted to fast break
and they're like, hey, Obie top is one of the
best guys in transition. They even picked up Bruce Brown.
They were like, he's one of the best guys in transition.
Back when they they they did that overpay, They're like,
we have cap space, let's just pay them all this money,
get them away, then use.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
That great overpay. Is the thing about Oklahoma City, by
the way, with with Hartenstein, that fat contract is sitting there,
so you know, like he's got a player option I
think after next season, but that that big money is
sitting there for the next move that they want to
(25:22):
make if they're looking to do it.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Hartstein is so important, but also Hardenstein. Hartenstein arguably, if
there's a single player that you could make a weird
argument swung this season in the NBA if the thunder
go on and win the title. Yeah, and you're like,
if James Dolan had taken some of his sphere money.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
The Knicks really miss.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Instead, just screw it, I'm paying a ton of lecture ducks, Like,
I mean, I can't remember that they weren't able. Were
they able to match if they wanted to, like the
money that I know it would have been a huge
tax bill.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, I can't remember if there was a limitation a
lot of money. Uh, I don't know if they could
have done.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
It when you said, I'm talking about legally the CBO
would have allowed them to pay Hardenstein.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Well, like them losing Hardenstein, like really it sapped a
lot of my enthusiasm. I remember, for in the mkale
Bridges trade, I was like, Oh, this trade's awesome. It's
maybe it's an overpay when you just look at a
vacuum the number of picks for McKale bridges, but with
this roster it seems awesome. And then when Hardenstein left,
you're like, oh, I like it less now, and they
turned it for Cat and it got fun again. The
(26:40):
the other thing that kind of swings this that PACER's
Nick series. I mean, it's still a toss up, and
it's still like there are a lot of fortuitous events
that led to the Pacers getting there, to lead to
the the Knicks getting there the next staying healthy, not
having to face I mean whatever, I don't know. I
guess you give the nixt credit for coming back and
those twenty point comebacks against the Celtics. Sure, but like
(27:03):
it's wild. It's wild the number of swings we've had,
even the Pacers. If the Pacers don't have that miracle,
I mean, that game won is one of the all
time just I mean, obviously everyone's pulling out the stats.
No team had ever come back in the playoff play
era had come back from thirteen down with two minutes
and forty five seconds left before and the Haliburton shot
(27:25):
bouncing fifteen feet in the air off the rim and
then going in. Like, if that just swings one way,
the Knicks are in a pretty good spot right now, right,
but of course they're not.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I mean, if they just pull off the win, yeah again,
if it's too two, yeah, you feel like they did
such a good job actually even in the game last night,
of dragging the Pacers into the mud, like in the
third quarter when when the Knicks started getting to the
free throw line and it just totally killed the Pacers
rhythm and momentum on offense. Yeah, I mean the Knicks
(27:58):
they can grind a team down, but the truth is
that the Pacers actually just did it faster, right like
you Nee Smith is his big body, like uh, Brunson
goes over two in the fourth quarter in time it mattered, Hm,
you know, just war them. They wore them out.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Also, we're getting this weird, this like kind of difference
between the time when the Knicks have only one of
Kat or Brunson on the court and they're like trying
to figure out.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
The and they're so much better with just Cat the.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Ways to coexist, And you wonder if that's a matchup
dependent thing or how do they not figure this out sooner?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I mean, are you gonna you can't bench Jailen brun
And I.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Don't know why you'd want to, because he's come through
for you so often over and over and over when
it matters. Are our clutch player of the year.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
But he has been put into every single Like I
think the stat was like he's like thirty a game
pick and rolls that the Pacers are putting him in
thirty thirty one something around there. They're just eating him alive.
You know, he offers very little resistance on the defensive end.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yep, Dave, let's take a break and we'll come back
talk a little bit more about this beautiful game. All right, So, Dave,
if the Knicks don't pull off a miracle three to
(29:37):
one come back, do they just say, hey, bad luck,
we running back? Do they have to make? Is this
like is does Tims get fired because he didn't figure
out enough about his team yet? Like what are they
supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I mean, I think I don't know. It's an interesting question, right,
Like you always got to ask, like who do they
hire that's better? Sure, and there are people out there
that maybe is an upcourse, but also at a certain
point you have to say, we've been doing this this
way and running into the exact same problem for years now,
(30:14):
is this like you just you're getting incrementally closer and
maybe next year is the year that you break through
with the same same problem, or or is there going
to be a sea change, and maybe this is the
series that opens up the eyes of Tom Thibodeau to
realize that you need to have ten guys ready to
play when you get to the playoffs. I don't know.
I mean, I think it's a Knicks question. The more
(30:36):
important thing is is there a CAAA client that's a
bigger upgrade? Right like that? That's the real question. And
I just don't know. I mean, it's tough, man, because
I always say coaches really like it. It can make
a huge difference to fire your coach, or it can
make very little difference. And with the Knicks, I don't
know that it makes a huge difference because of the personnel.
(30:57):
And maybe it's better just roll it back with Tom Phibbert,
expect chemistry to work things out. Maybe you can make
a trade during the summer or mid season that add
some depth. I don't. I don't know. But it's more
of a personnel problem than a coaching problem in my opinion,
although there's big coaching problems on offense. It's kind of
like a convoluted answer. But yeah, I mean where they're
(31:19):
at right like, this is the big question mark is
can they get better?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I mean, obviously making to the conference finals. Is a
is a good result for this next team when you
consider the circumstance and if you end up losing to
a Pacers team that no one thought was really a
titles contender, I think coming into the playoffs. Actually, I
gotta find out. I got to hit up. I've like
I've been given Friend of the Show Kaitlyn Cooper her space,
(31:47):
like she PACER's blowing up. She's doing awesome. But I
do want to know straight from her, like when when
did she think the Pacers could make the finals? Like,
like when the playoffs started, did she have this much
enthusiasm and belief in the squad? Because I mean they
were not a prohibitive favorite. They were favored over the Bucks,
(32:10):
but it was split. It wasn't that they were not
a huge betting favorite. They were just came was like,
I don't think they were even mind US two hundred
or something.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Like I've picked them in every series along the way. Yeah,
this is I mean, this is a fifty win team
that I thought was better than their record, even like
if you look they finished the season thirty four and fourteen.
I think in their last forty eight games they were
trending toward to me being a much higher like a
higher seed than they were. I think they were obviously
(32:39):
better than the Knicks by the time we get to
this point, but I liked the matchup. I liked them
as a matchup, not necessarily that they were a much
better team. I think that they got the luck of
the draw was great for them. They got the Bucks,
who were obviously weak the Calves there the Pacers are
kind of a unique problem for the Calves in particular
(33:00):
to solve, and then obviously the Knicks just don't have
enough guys. But I don't know, man, I was actually
looking because I texted, I don't know. It's probably the
beginning of the series against the Calves. Oh, I think
the Pacers can go to the finals. And this was
before we knew that Tatum was going to go down.
But the Pacers had played the Celtics so well the
last couple of years even that I felt like that
(33:22):
they had a good a good shot. It doesn't help
because I'm you know, my eyes aren't on him as
tight as as Caitlin is. But maybe that helped me
kind of realize what I was looking at a little
bit sooner in the playoffs, but I don't know, man,
anytime you've got a team, like look at what the
Thunder did in Game one of the Conference finals. They
played ten guys in the first quarter. That is that
is a flex for the team to be able to
(33:45):
do that. Hey, you know what, We're gonna find out
which of these guys are gonna work in this series.
And if you look at the Pacers, Tony Bradley is
playing big minutes and Shepherd is out there after coming back,
It's crazy what they're pulling on off man.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I mean they're literally missing Isaiah Jackson, Like, yeah, I
can't believe that they decided. I I'll be I'll be honest,
did not know Tony Bradley was on the Pacers when
they're like, why would you he wouldn't playing when they
when when when they moved on from Thomas Bryant. Because
I mean, I'm watching the Pacers advance, I'm watching them
(34:20):
beat the Calves, and I'm like, they're paying they're playing
Thomas Bryant, Laker legend.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
They abandoned him in the next round.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
If all right, swapping conferences. If the Timberwolves aren't able
to stave off elimination, they also have their roster questions,
their salary questions, like what do you do with Nazarene?
I can hit the open market. The cale Alexander Walker,
who had like the game of his life. I mean,
(34:52):
the guys. The guy's a good, useful player, but he's
had some struggles in the postseason and he's not like
really a guy who shot has been able or hasn't
been dependable in the postseason. But maybe it's going up
against his cousin, like he's having he's having a great
series and his Game four performance was outrageous. He's a
(35:16):
free agent. So I don't know what the Timberwolves are
able to do.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I mean, it's they got to address the Randall stuff
because like as we've seen it in the playoffs, like
it's just it's up and down.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
You know, I don't know what I mean. I know,
I know the thunder an amazing defense, and I know
they were they were doubling Ant a lot, but like
all the role players came through, the Minnesota team had
an incredible offensive explosion. I mean in the fourth quarter
and in the second half, even with Ant not coming
(35:50):
up with the biggest stats. Uh, he didn't make us
three pointers. But like Randal not even being played because
he was so ineffective with what we've seen already this postseason,
right where he redeemed his entire like postseason career, his
failures before being on the timber Wolves. Yeah, it's a
that's a that's that's a question. And maybe it's just
tough when you play the Thunder and they're so outrageously good.
(36:15):
I don't want, I don't want to look ahead, but
like briefly indulge if it's Pacers Thunder in the finals, which,
first of all, Dave confession, Never in my life did
I think there would be an NBA Finals game within
five hours of my house. But never in my life
(36:37):
that I think within a five hour drive of Nashville.
This is a shot at the Grizzlies, the Hawks, and
the Pacers that I think they're being NBA Finals. I
know back in the nineties, early two thousands, the Pacers
had this long stretch of being amazing, but still those
are three squads where I'm like, they're they're I think
you could argue they're all well run organization, but they're
(37:01):
not the big boys. And and but now with the
Pacers possibly breaking through, I'm a made but anyways, looking ahead,
will the Thunder be able to contain the transition points
of the Pacers because that is one of the strengths
of I mean, it's the strength of both teams. Yeah,
(37:22):
the Thunder were the best at stopping fast breaks all season,
and then they're going to force turnovers. Meanwhile, Halliburton art
will be the best at not turning the basketball over. Right,
just coming off this was it fourteen assists, no turnover.
It was a zero turnover. Fifteen assists, zero turnover. He is,
there's been. He's like, he's like, what if Tias Jones
(37:45):
was good? You know, and never and never because like
the tighest Jones thinking, oh it never turns the basketball over.
It's like, yeah, but come on, you.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Know, is Tias Jones is like six feet tall. He's
not allowed to turn the ball over, right.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
He's not true too, But like just the volume of
passes we're talking about that Halliburton's doing, oh yeah, compared
to anybody else, it's unbelievable. Meanwhile, the Thunder are the
best turn over forcing team. It's a fun mismatch.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Hey, Rick Carlisle, veteran coach, been there before, knows how
to push all these buttons. Mark Dagnault learning his way.
The storylines for this, for this finals is actually very.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Cool potential finals. You're right, well, I don't want to
get burned, Dave.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
There have you okay, have you seen anything out of
the Wolves or Knicks that makes you feel like they
can dig out from a three to one hole. The
Pacers haven't lost the games in a row. The Pacers
haven't lost three games in a row. They lost three
games in a row in early March. They haven't lost
consecutive games since then.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
None of those stats mean to think fair. I mean,
the Knicks have been in these games. True, the Knicks
have lost in spectacular fashion, and many of them the
thunder and they lost, but forty two, they've had a
couple of I mean, these are close games coming down
to the end of the games. We have people wanting
to change the foul rules based on how far how
(39:08):
these games ended. Dave. I know a lot of times
I act like there's there's there's an easy fix to
a complex problem. We all do it. It's not great. I
think I have an easy fix of tanking. But they're
still let's be real, there's some drawbacks. I would love
to see the NBA foul rules adjusted to more yeah,
(39:29):
help out the defense. But like, none of these things
have simple solutions, And I feel like people are always
acting like they do like this this. Oh yeah, we
got to get rid of the fouling down three, dah,
I haven't. There's no simple fix.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
It's a there's a downstream effect.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
All of them have huge downstream effects.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
And I would like to see that whole end of
game fouling, free throw game, take it out, like, just
take it out from both teams, even the team that's losing.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
So people say that, you say that, that's your opinion,
but like, this is what we've gotten. All these amazing comebacks,
they're all from this. Sure, the Pacers having three miracle
comeback wins this postseason run are because of fouling. It's
because of fouling.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
There.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
You don't If you don't have the fouling, none of
these things happen. So like, why would we want to
get rid of that? Saying you don't want to foul
up three? I mean, one way we can fix it.
You could go back to continuation, Right, we used to
have continuation. The defenders used to be terrified of touching
the offensive player if you were up by three, because
if that guy just picks the ball up and shoots
(40:39):
his three fouls. We changed that because of James Harden
and Chris Paul doing the rip through moves Damian Lillard,
it was good we changed that. Now it's become much
easier to foul without allowing a three shot. I mean
there's pros and cons. It's just back and forth.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Exactly, you're going to change something one way or the other. Yeah,
I just I do agree though, Like, look, it's it's
about the TV product, not the game when we're talking
about this. Uh, I think there's a differentiation. I would
rather watch guys be able to at least attempt to
three coring down three. The defense being able to get
an advantage through fouling is something that I think should
(41:18):
be looked at. And but again it's both sides, though
I think it's also the trailing team. I don't love
that either. Uh, there's there's got to be a solution
or maybe there's not, but there's there should at least
be a conversation about a solution because I don't happen
this happens often. They haven't really changed or adjusted the
foul rules or the free throw rules all that much.
(41:40):
I mean it took them. It took them like fifteen
years after the three point line was invented. To add
the third free throw on a three shot a terrible idea, terrible.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
It needs to be.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Undone maybe, but but also then you would have a
situation where it's like, oh, we're going to foul the
hell out of staff when he's shooting threes.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
So the to briefly explain to any listener why I
feel the three shot foul is terrible. If you foul
a three point shooter, the expected points from that it's
like two point seven or two point five or two
point four, which is way more than the expected value
of a wide open three point shot. So there's a
(42:22):
fair point to be made that all three point shots
should be a two point shot foul, except for the
end of games when you are down by three, then
we have to carve it out. So again, you're right,
there should be a conversation about even this fouling. Win
up three, win down three. But then we get to
the uh, it's all group think. Now, I'm just terrified.
It's all groot. Everyone's just following whatever is Zach Lower
(42:45):
whoever says well, I mean I think I mean Zachlo's
he's brilliant, great guy. But this is different things on
the quality of basketball or nothing new.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
It's just that this is now a new year, universal
strategy that every team does. Like that's the only thing
that's changed.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Also, a lot of times we talk about like hack
a shack was bad for TV.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, are we sure?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Because like it's kind of riveting when we're watching to
see if Mitchell Robinson is gonna make his free.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Throws those line drives.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Maybe it's not basketball shout out Mitchell Robinson on a
pretty hot streak right now, but like it's kind of riveting.
Is Steven Adams gonna make this free throw? Will the
Warriors get back.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
In the game?
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I don't know, It's kind of fun. Dave. Let's answer
a we Gotta we gotta listener submitted question. Uh, this
is acrossant question?
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Nah any questions?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yes? Are you going to finish that? Quass?
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Knock yourself out?
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Bobby Peyton wants to know this is this is unrelated
to the current playoff teams. Bobby Peyton wants to know
what's the best team where Jonathan Kaminga would make sense.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Man makes sense like fit on the basketball court.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
That's tough, all right, unrelated to salary. To me, one
of the best teams where johnthan Comingo would make sense
is uh the Indiana Pacers playing twenty minutes a night
just coming off the bench, just coming off the bench.
Maybe maybe taking I mean had the biggest impact of
(44:45):
this playoffs, but just having a bigger guy who is
just a finisher, Yeah, like another Obie Toppin' ish, like
unbelievable athlete, just gets out and goes and you know,
on any possession that takes less than five seconds, he's
a great out of having your team because he's going
to score. Maybe, But also.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
We're about the Wizards. Why it's kind of well, but
if you're saying the best team that he fits on,
the Wizards probably aren't it. It's more like, I don't know,
like he could score, right, so score unbelievable. He could
he play you know, three four for the Miami Heat
and being upgrade probably helps them out, depends on.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
He needs to. But I think so if we talk
about Kaminga, big downsides you shooting no defense and then
like the basketball awareness whatever his NBA. I don't know
what NBA Live calls it or or two K. NBA
Live used to be like offensive awareness. It's all a
little bit low. The field of the game's a little
(45:48):
bit low. But the guy is just like a bucket
who just you feel like you could be able to
unleash him. But I do think he's to be surrounded
by shooting and a lot of shooting, which is like
when you say Miami, I'm like, not enough shooting, Yeah,
Wiggins and Bam and nope. And then it's like you
think about like a team like the Rocket Snow they
(46:10):
already have. He's got to be surrounded by shooting, and
I don't know exactly where that is. It's a team
that is a team that needs a three slash four
that needs scoring, that already has shooting around him. Like
I don't that makes it hardgo.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
It's like maybe he could play like for the.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Bulls they don't have any forwards.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, because they just don't have anybody who kind of
fills that role. You could see him at the four,
maybe next to next to Ooch. But I honestly, there's
not a lot of really good fits for him. I mean,
just looking through the league and you wind up looking
at Utah. What about the Pistons.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
What about the Pistons. I mean, I know they have
they kind of got Tobias Harris and Holland on the
on the ascendancy and and a sar.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
The thing is Kumingo would be worse Tobias Harris. Yeah,
and I just don't, I don't. I don't see it. Man.
That not working out for the Warriors. It's gonna set
them back because I just don't know what they can
get for.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Kamena Santi al Dama.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Straight up, he would be interesting for the Grizzlies.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
He would be I mean, you don't love it with jaws,
not for spacing, but I mean just a three slash
four who would just bucket some points. And it's like, yeah,
I don't but yeah, it's it's hard.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Kuminga is a weird player because I think we probably
we probably over value him a little bit because he
was on the Warriors. I don't know how the league
looks at him. It's gonna be an interesting summer.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I mean, do you just think of the spots who
were bereft of talent and it's like, okay, why not?
Why not? The Hornets. Why not the Wizards if I mean,
then you get into Hornets.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
I don't want to bring him in because you've got
Brandon Miller, you know, you and LaMelo who are gonna
have the ball. I think Kaminga needs to he needs touches.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
It's the crowded front court, is.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
All I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what
if he winds up in Brooklyn. I just don't know,
Like where where.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Brooklyn's players, like whi's Brooklyn players? Team in two years
is Cam Johnson.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
There's a bunch of weird teams in the league. Claxton's
gonna get clon.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
I mean, what if he goes on the What if
the Cavaliers once they move out, Jared Allen get a
little more spacing, get off. I don't know know, but
I'm saying, if you don't have Jared Allen, at least
you have a I don't know, he gets up and
down the court. It's it's a hard It's a good
question because it's a hard it's hard to find a
(48:50):
landing spot. If you have a great idea for a
landing spot, hit up Jonathan Kminge's agent. They could probably
use a little of advice. Anyways, Thanks for the question,
Bobby Payton. I really appreciate you and all the other
supporters over at patreon dot com slash fast break breakfast.
(49:11):
All right, Dave. Now time for the awards segment of
the program, the International Stackhouse of Pancakes Award given to
the worst performance in a box score. This week, we
have three nominees and a skip. All the honorable mentions.
(49:32):
Three nominees, Dave, as they occurred chronologically over the past
a couple of weeks. We have og An Andobi in
a loss to the Celtics, a blowout loss to the Celtics.
Og one for twelve from the field, add six points,
eight rebounds to assist, one block, two turnovers, three personal fouls.
(49:54):
Then we add nose read in. Oh, that sort that's
not chronologically. Next up chronologically Jalen Williams. Another terrible Jalen
Williams game three for sixteen and is lost to the
Nuggets three for sixteen, six points, seven rebounds, ten assists,
three seals, that's nice, one block, three turn over, three
(50:15):
personal fouls. And then we had nos Reed naz Reid
with a one for eleven against the Thunder four points,
eight boards, four assists, one block returners. So are three nominees.
Og Anobi one for twelve six points, eight boards, Jalen
Williams three for sixteen six points, seven boards, ten assists,
(50:37):
and nas Read four points eight boards with a one
for eleven stat line.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Nos.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Yeah it's either Nas or OG.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
I think it's Nos. They just needed they needed Nos.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, tough, tough, tough game for NOAs Red. Yeah, they've
needed it's been Temples are a strange squad. I mean
they're a good score, very good. Like we've been watching
these playoffs being like, man, Julius Raynold's really showing up.
I wish like Dante DiVincenzo would show up, Like if
John de Vincinzo was making shots that they'd be good again.
(51:15):
It's like, oh, you can't depend on the cale Alexander
Walker in the postseason. Now those guys are playing well,
and like, oh, it's like nas Reed, who was like
a playoff hero folk hero, it's not really giving you much.
And then it was like Gobert, Gobert is doing nothing
and then Gobert have a huge game. Yeah, it's all
over the board. Also, Mike Conley just skates by everyone
likes Mike Conley just skates by shooting thirty percent all
(51:35):
the time. Just just no one's saying anything. He's old
less his heart, Yeah he is.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
He is. He's very resemble that remark.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Yeah exactly. Anyways, Dave, what do you if if either
the Timberwolves or Nicks come back, which one? And and
because of who who's the here, who's the folk hero?
Who does this?
Speaker 2 (52:02):
It'd be the Knicks.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Because of.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
It'd have to be Jalen Brunson, okay, or Cat honestly,
I mean, because the thing is that Cat has outplayed
in my opinion, they've they've outplayed the lineups with Cat
and without Brunson have outplayed the Bronson and Cat lineups
and the Brunson no Cat lineups. So maybe it's Cat.
Maybe it's Cat doing what he did the other day,
(52:29):
you know, putting up thirty five a game for the
next three games and Brunston still getting his thirty or
whatever that that does it. So maybe it's Cat. I mean,
he is playing, He's gonna be playing on you know,
a hobbled knee. So does should he do the Willis
Reid thing? But just do that as his intro, like
(52:50):
you know, start the game still, but but walk out
from the.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Here's here's what I'm looking at, Dave, the Knicks. Let's
see the Knicks. When Josh Hart plays forty five or
more minutes in the postseason seven to one all time,
only one loss was in overtime. I think. I don't
(53:16):
think the move is benching Josh Hart. I think the
move is playing Josh Hart every single minute. I don't
know who. I don't know who loses. I think Josh
Hart has to be on the court at all times.
Josh Hart is going to be the playoff hero. Josh
Hart leads him back three straight wins. Josh Hart folk hero.
He ends up co starring with Timothy Shallomey and Ben
(53:37):
Stiller in an upcoming Apple TV project.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
I'm guessing written by AI.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
When's the last time? Are are there other Knicks fans traveling?
Is it just Stiller, Salome and then Spike?
Speaker 2 (53:54):
I guess, I don't know. What do you think the
NBA's budget is on this? The celebrity thing?
Speaker 1 (54:02):
Uh? Yeah? I mean how much are is the NBA
paying travel expenses?
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Here? For sure? Okay? Everyone has everyone has celebrity brain.
I love the basketball games more Keith because Ben Stiller
is there, There were.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Who, there were some celebrities like they were doing pacer
celebrities and I'm like, who it was? A was it
John Mellencamp? Who does do they show? That was like
triple H there?
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Yeah? Which is I don't even know. I don't I
don't get that one.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Have we not had? I don't feel like I've seen
a bunch of like, where's Debtliffe? Shrimp at he's good
enough for but he's not good enough Davis?
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Okay, they had.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
George Hill, Marvin Harrison.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
I didn't see him up there.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
I've never seen him before anyways, Dave, thanks for hanging out,
good talk. As always, listeners, you guys are the best.
Thanks for listening and remember breakfast is the most important.
Thank you.
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