FCS Offseason Check-In with Zach McKinnell

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
All right, welcome in FCS Tackle Football fans to another
episode of the FCS Football Talk podcast, bringing on our
in season co host, that is Zach mckinnall of FCS
Football Central and the blue Bloods.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Figured we would do a bit of.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
A FCS off season check in to kind of dive
into all the all the storylines. Of course, during the
off season there's a lot of off the field storylines popping up,
so we'll dive into those and do a little bit
of talking about some on field action and maybe talk
a little bit of contenders for the upcoming football season.
But Zach, it's great to have you on the podcast.

(00:53):
How is your off season? But not really an off
season been for you?

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yeah? Man, hectic as usual. I think you kind of
yah know this. You know, we get a small break,
but now with the transfer portal, NFL draft stuff, it's
never ending, man. But glad to be back on the
show and it's count down to the season started. And
we made it to May Media Day. What a month
two months away and then we'll be right into preview season. Mass.
I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, I don't have the number on my off the
top of my head right now, but I know, I'm
prepping for that Jersey countdown with the you know best
best guy to wear number ninety nine ninety nine days
out of the season. I think that's kicking off in
a couple of weeks, and so we're probably one hundred
and fifteen hundred and twenty somewhere around there as far
as the upcoming season Week zero, But we got a

(01:41):
lot of off the field and off season stuff to
touch on. We'll probably start here with with everyone's favorite topic,
that is the transfer portal. And I mean we've talked
about the kind of the high arching overview of the
transfer portal and how it negatively impacts the FCS and
how the nc andel inability to enforce any of any

(02:02):
of its restrictions and guardrails, you know, pretty much all
the guardrails off off the table now, how that's made
it more difficult for the FCS to hang on to guys.
And you know, we've talked as well about how the
portal in some ways can benefit the FCS as well.
There's I mean, you look at UIW and you look
at I mean Rhode Island. They brought in some some

(02:22):
nice portal additions, but I think the main thing to
talk about now is just this spring portal window because
and I've said this before on other shows and in
past years, it seems most of the FCS standouts that
enter the portal and go to the FBS, most of
those guys, not all, but most of those guys do
it during the winter portal period because of course they

(02:44):
want to enroll in January after new school, go through
spring ball and all that. And in previous yeares, there
was always you know, a few standouts here or there
that would enter in the spring portal window. But there
is so many teams that after they got through the
wind portal period, we're looking at them, you know, from
a five hundred foot view and going, all right, you know,

(03:04):
this team looks you know, they're they're looking pretty good
to make a pretty decent run here. You know, team
like South Dakota, a team like ui W as well.
You know, North Kota State looks looked loaded as well.
But then we hit the spring portal period and UIW
loses a few transfers, a few starters to the transfer portal.
North Kota State loses a few starters to the transfer portal.

(03:25):
South Dakota loses what like five starters to the transfer portal,
and it seems like to me the spring portal window
has hit the FCS harder this year compared to past years.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Have you kind of noticed that as well?

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, a little bit. And you know, I kind of
talked about it on my show, just just briefly about
how a lot of kids and a lot of agents
are planning bugs in these in these players ear that
this might be their last time to hit the transfer
portal in a free market. Yeah, because you do have
the house settlement settlement coming down the pipeline, which is

(04:00):
suppose it is supposed to put a little bit of
cap right on what a team can spend and how
they're going to have to manage how they're paying all
these players. So it Sam, if me or you are players,
and you know, maybe we're not NFL guys, right, we
know that our career ends after the next year, why
would we not want to hit the portal right and
try to go make you know, a little bit of money?
Because the nil market right now is outrageous, right, Sam,

(04:21):
I'm sure you've heard some hypothetical numbers I have as well.
There's a lot of guys making a lot of money,
right now and these guys talk, Sam, me and you
could have been high school teammates, right, and you're at
you know, insert FBS program here, and I'm a I'm
at another one. Well, Sam, if you're making X amount,
you're going to tell me, right if we're friends and
we're talking and and and just checking up on each other.

(04:44):
So I think that played a part. And then also too,
there's just some people who made it to the spring
and we know tampering is a thing. There's some FBS
programs out there that maybe that maybe they felt comfortable
at left guard entering December, will then after spring practice
we really hey, we're really not as good at left
guard as we need to be. We need to find

(05:04):
someone who could come in and start it left guard.
And we know, Sam, there's not a lot of starters
in the spring window, especially for FPS programs. They're looking
to fill in gaps, they're looking for rotational guys, and
so how do you get a starter. You have to
entice them to get int the portal. And we know
that's happening. We've seen multiple FCS coaches call this out
on social media and we know it exists because no
one's ignorant to the fact of what this business is.

(05:27):
So I think it was a little bit of everything right,
and I don't fault any kids. I do want to
put that out there because I do know everybody's situation
is different. We don't know background info, where people's families are,
what the kid is hearing, you know. And then there's
also players Sam that me and you might be high on,
but these coaches are looking to over I would say,
recruit over everybody if they can. Maybe there was a

(05:48):
kid who just didn't like his role right with a
new offensive coordinator or a new coaching staff, and they
felt like they could find a better role elsewhere. So
I think there's a whole bunch of different levels. Mean
you can hit on. I'm not sooner were surprised that
it was so active. I think there's a case by
case basis of maybe I didn't see, you know, this
player hitting the portal, but I did think it was
going to be a busy portal window given the fact

(06:10):
that it was the last one in this so called
you know, free market for these guys to get nil dollars.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, that's the interesting part too, with the nil because
as we know, there's with the with the House Settlements,
which we still believe is is going to get approved.
It's after all this time. It still hasn't been officially
approved just yet. But with it, a lot of the
NIL deals are going to be quote unquote moved in

(06:37):
house where I mean the schools they don't need to
do this nil deal where you have to do something,
you know, for the money, you know, do a commercial
or do some social media posts, like we're just going
to directly revenue share directly with the players. But that
isn't necessarily going to stop NIL collectives. Like Alabama is
going to be paying its players, you know, across the

(06:58):
athletic department, mostly for football. Whatever the cap is twenty
twenty and a half million dollars, there can still be
in Alabama third party NIL collective giving more money on
top of that. But now there's going to be and
I still don't really know exactly how it's gonna work,
but there's basically gonna be a clearinghouse with the nil
deals to kind of clear NIL deals just to make

(07:19):
sure like some guys not getting you know, it's gonna
it's gonna reset the market a little bit, and so
you know, some guys isn't getting some outrageous nil deal
where you know, the clearinghouse can look at it and
be like this is this you know doesn't doesn't make
a whole lot of sense. And so I do think
with that said, that's kind of like you said there
there is kind of this mad dash to throw as
much money as these collectives can at players in the

(07:43):
portal just to because they know, like you know, some
of these deals are cutting now they might not be
able to with this new clearinghouse. And I've heard this,
I'm sure you have as well. I've heard it from
you know, many different people of there are and you
kind of mentioned it as well with you know a
lot of guys that go from the FCS to the
FBS in the spring, not all of them, some of

(08:05):
them will will find starting roles, but a decent amount
of them are are going to be you know, depth players.
They're going to be offensive lineman six seven eights, or
they're going to be you know, second string linebacker. They're
going to be you know, rotational defensive tackle, whatever the
case may be, or maybe they're the backup running back
that you know, their carries goes down by you know
two hundred yard or two hundred carries in the season.

(08:25):
A lot of these guys are are going to be
more rotational guys or depth guys. But the money is
so big that is being thrown at these guys that's
hard for them to turn down. And you know, I've
heard that there are there are guys that have entered
the portal and transferred to the FBS, like and got
a huge nil payday, but they like they know there
the amount of reps they're taking is going to go

(08:46):
down significantly at this new school. But the money was
just kept on getting bigger and bigger, and it was
too much to to turn down. And so there's and
I'm with you, it's hard to fault a player for that.
Like you could be on the competitive side and be like,
you know, if you're a running back and you get
offered one hundred thousand dollars to transfer up, but your
number of carries goes from two fifty to one hundred, like,

(09:09):
come on, don't take that bag. Like be a competitor.
Be a competitor and go where you're getting the most
reps at the same time, like one hundred grand or
sometimes more. In these cases, that's going to set you
up pretty well for your life post football. And I
know a lot of college football players. They all think
they're going to the league, right, But I also think
they're probably a bit more self aware than maybe some

(09:31):
fans give them credit for. And I think a lot
of these guys realize that the most money they're going
to make playing football is actually in college football because
they might not make it to the league. And so
it is hard to fall to kid even if they
go in to an FBA school knowing their amount of
reps is going to go down, but they get a
huge nil bag. I don't know, it's hard to fault
a kid for making that decision.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
No, And I personally, and I know, obviously without dropping names,
I do know a few players who just asking them,
you know, about their chances or portal decision, they were like, look, man,
I'm a you know, six foot defensive end. Man, Like,
where where am I going to go get drafted? Right?
But I just had an All American season or all
conference season, and I can go get two hundred and
fifty three hundred K from this you know, lower P

(10:15):
four program. Why would you not take that deal? Right?
And I get it to a point and I do
think there's just for fans. It's hard to rationalize, right
because because in a fan's mind, it's like, man, why
wouldn't you want to play? Why wouldn't you just want to,
you know, get a chance. You never know what could happen.
But we all know them when we see it every year.
There are a lot of If you haven't been to
an NFL game recently, it's different. It's a different level

(10:38):
of football, and you have to be the elite of
the elite. And so I think, like you said, these
players should get more credit for being self aware than
I think a lot of fans give them credit for.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, And I know I wonder too that. And I'm
not saying this is a specific strategy, but we've seen
some guys that went to the FBS last year and
now they're coming back to the FCS or you know,
they're back in the portal, and so who knows. Some
guys might just have the mindset of, you know, I'm
getting these huge nil offers, I might as well take
it now, and if I carve myself a nice role,

(11:09):
I'll stay there, you know. If not, I got this
nice payday and I'll go back in the portal again
and maybe find a place where I can get more reps.
I don't know if that's a specific strategy, but it
is interesting to I mean it's you and I both
and Timothy as well. We try to keep track of
all these transfers in where they're going, but.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Sometimes you lose track.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
But it's always interesting too where you know you probably
do as well. I follow all these portal accounts that
tweet out this guy's entering the portal, and you know,
every now and then you'll see a guy's name and
you're like, I think I know that guy, Like he's
playing in the SEC now, but he's in the portal.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
I think I know that guy.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
And you you look him up and you're like, oh, yeah,
this guy's was a freshman All American two years ago
now and now he's back in the portal. And so
there's just so much moving around. It's it's it's wild
to try to keep track of.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Yeah, the portal trackers are are so cool, but the
most impossible product I think us as media take on.
I mean, there's just no like it'll be so funny
because I and I appreciate the people who do reach
out and it's like, hey, man, you missed this player.
But it's like the ones that are like how did
you miss this player? And it was like, man, I'm sorry,
I did not notice. You know, the kid from Houston,
Christian transferred to Texas State for the third time, Like

(12:17):
I missed it. I apologize. It's so hard to keep
up with on tops.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, because we don't have direct access to the actual portal.
I know some people might, but yeah, it's all it's
all either dms or following these other accounts or there's
some other like on three and two four seven do
a pretty decent job, but that's mostly I mean, they're
not going to get a guy from that's going from
du Cane to Lamar, like there are two four seven

(12:42):
is probably not gonna probably not gonna catch that one.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
So Roy Alexander's are the ones that they tweeted about
the exactly up.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
The big time players they'll definitely get.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
But uh, you know, to touch on a couple of
schools here, I definitely want to touch on South Dakota another.
I mean, and now it's kind of going it was
all negative portal wise for the Yoats, but now they're
starting to bring in some potentially impact guys via the
transfer portal, maybe more so from necessity, but you look

(13:11):
at the Yoats and they made it through the winter
portal period, and we're looking at the Yoats as man,
this could definitely be the preseason number two team based
off of what South Dakota State loss, based off of
what Montana State lost. The Oats are bringing back Bauman
at quarterback, Charles Pierre junior. You know, their top running back,
four starting offensive lineman, their top two tackler, some talent

(13:32):
in the secondary, and then the spring portal hits and
a couple of these were even before the spring portal.
But they lose their top tackler, they lose a standout
in the secondary, they lose three starting offensive linemen. So
you kind of go from this could be the preseason
number two team to where exactly does USD fit into?
You know, I'm guess somewhere in the top ten for sure,

(13:53):
maybe top five. But where are you at kind of
five hundred foot level view of South Dakota after some
of these departures.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, man, I mean this was one of the more
interesting ones, right because I think when we saw the
coaching change at South Dakota I think me, you and
everyone kind of in the media, it's kind of expected
this earlier, right like this, this type of movement of
the spring window is what I would have predicted in
the in the first portal window, but for some somehow
it was opposite. With this staff, they were able to

(14:21):
convince all these kids to stay. But then when we
got to the next portal window, it just something happened there,
And I think it was assistance moving around right, especially
with the offensive line. I think that played a huge
part of some of these od linemen we saw leave.
But then also too, like you said, we talked in
the first part of the show, you just don't know
what the offers were. Did the offers get super increased,
the teams come knocking, Did players just feel like they

(14:43):
weren't going to fit this new system in the same like,
there's this all kind of external factors. I'll say this,
I think luckily for South Dakota, are they do I
feel as strongly about them as like a top two,
top three preseason team and like true national title content,
Probably not as much. But I do think when you
look across the FCSSAM, there were so many teams that

(15:05):
lost so much that you look at what they still
have coming back, they're still better than what eighty ninety
percent of the teams in the subdivision. And it's like
you start thinking about teams you might move above them,
like a Montana State like it incardinate words still and
it's like, once you get past the North Dakota States,
the incardinate words to Montana States. They didn't lose anything

(15:27):
more than what South Dakota State lost. They didn't lose
anything more than even what we've seen Illinois State lose
a few key players in the spring portal window, it's like,
who would you move above them? So I still think
they're firmly a top five team offensively, it's still great.
You get an super experienced quarterback back in Adan Bowman,
and then you steal your running back room looks really,
really good, Charles Pierre. I believe they still are getting

(15:50):
back KeAndre Jones Logan too, who brings a lot of
experience that really really speedy back, explosive the one position
I am a little bit concerned about just his wide receiver. Right,
you lose Carter Bell to the draft, you thought you
had some experience coming back. You lose your one of
your top praturning wide receivers to the portal. Now you're
kind of looking at that wide receiving room like, who's
the guy to step up?

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Right?

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Is it Jack Martin's? Is it Tyson Bows is it?
Is it Finner? Is it Jacob's? Like, who who's the
next guy in the wide receiving room? And then tight end,
you had a massive hole to replace already at tight
end losing one of the best tight ends in the subdivision.
And then offensive line is so big because if you're
gonna win a national title on the FCS SAM, you
know this, you have to be good upfront, and they

(16:34):
lost so much talent up front. It's just what is
the chemistry gonna be like early in the season, Because
I do think guys like Adrian Hawkins and they can
be they can be good, right, but you're gonna need
someone next to them that can anchor and can I
don't think you're gonna be able to replace those guys immediately.
I think they're just gonna have to fill in the
gaps and then hope this unit at jails because they

(16:55):
were like where I was after the winter portal windows
Sam was, I thought that arguably had the best offensive
line in the FCS in terms of experience, potential, size, like,
and they had guys who had true NFL potential on
that offensive line. So I don't know if you can
replace those guys, Sam, but you can at least get
someone who is playable and can be a maybe an

(17:17):
All Conference guy, right, maybe not an All American guy,
but he can be All Conference or honorable mention. It
was just the offensive line and wide receivers. What worried
me most was South Dakota. But at least you still
have Bawman, who's a really good quarterback. Your running back
room should be good. Let's just see how they fill
in those gaps on the offensive line throughout the rest
of the summer. And are there any young guys that
took a big step in spring practice and or could

(17:38):
take a big step in summer ball.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (17:41):
I know, South Dakota they brought in a guy from
Merrimack that they like. I believe potentially it could be
their starting center. They brought in that Chattanooga transfer as
well that started double digit games for the last couple
of years, And so they're bringing in guys with experience.
But like you said, I mean some of the talent
they lost power for level guys uh now, and so

(18:02):
I think that that could be tough. But we've seen
South Dakota. I think they've recruited really well. We'll see
how good their development is on you know, the offensive line,
because some of the guys they lost weren't you know,
grad transfers, or maybe some of them were, but they
still had at least two more years left in them.
And so when you lose guys like that that you're
not prepared to you got to develop these other guys

(18:25):
in in a hurry, you.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Know, another team too.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
And it was all positive for this team until you know,
they lost you know, a handful of guys to the portal.
But we talked a little bit about how the portal
can benefit team. It kind of goes team by team.
Sometimes it hits you hard. Sometimes you don't lose anyone
and you benefit greatly from from the portal with some additions.
But ui W has certainly made uh splash transfer transfer additions.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
They added three former fcs All Americans and wide receiver
hit On James, defensive back Tyler Morton, running back Jalen Spears. Uh,
you know, three all Americans Spears was also what the
twenty twenty three would have been Southland Conference Offensive Player
of the Year Brandon Hay as well Michael Please, David Powers.
Those are linebackers, outside linebackers that were all impact guys

(19:15):
as well. You know, Cameron Foster is a good addition
from from Southern And I had Coach Kilo on the
podcast like a month ago, and I you know, asked,
I asked him, what's the recruiting pitch like to these
guys to not only you know, stay in the FCS
when some of these guys I'm sure probably had opportunities
to go to the FBS, But what's the pitch you know,

(19:37):
specifically for you guys. And he said, you know, it's
pretty simple. We want to win a national championship. And
you know we're kind of pushing all of our chips
into the into the middle of the table here and
going all in on it. So, so what do you
make of ui W and the off season they've had.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
I think even with their portal losses in the spring,
I still think they've had arguably the best for best
transfer portal class in the FCS. And I understand because
I think Sack State probably kind of gets that NOTDG
just due to overall numbers, right, And we'll probably talk
about film adding fifty plus guys. But I think when
you look at all the guys that incardinate word's added, Sam,

(20:16):
it's really hard to find someone that you look at
and it's like, Okay, I don't know if he can
contribute next year. Every single person they brought in should
be a starter or at least a rotational contributor at
their position, and it's really really rare to get that
at the FCS. Like a lot of the times, a
lot of these guys are getting dropped down from FBS
where Sam me and you might look and it's like, okay,

(20:38):
he's played one hundred snaps in three years, Like what
is he going to be at this level? Like we
have film on a lot of these guys, and so
I'm very very interested to see how how they do
all the pieces gel together here because you get a
guy like Jalen Spears, right, which makes the spring portal
losses a little bit less, right, because Jalen Spears was
coming to take his job, And then you look at

(21:00):
Roy Alexander, who was a thousand yard receiver you know,
is getting a lot of FBS. Love probably got a
huge offer, but Sam, to replace him, you bring in
a guy in cheat and James, who was an All
American two years ago in Idaho State and is going
to be in a way better offensive scheme now surrounded
by even better talent, so he should elevate his game.
You would think you look at a guy like David

(21:20):
Power should step right in for Walford start most likely
at linebacker. Cameron Foster from Southern a top contributor. I mean,
you had Tyler Morton to the secondary that was already
pretty good and had a lot of elite athletes. I
think the biggest still question mark for me is the
interior defensive line because that's kind of where you know,
they ran through the south end right, but when they

(21:42):
ran up against like a South Dakota State, they just
didn't have the depth and size on the interior of
the defensive line to hang. And that's the one question
mark I half because I think with this offense, Sam,
it's safe to say this offense should be top three
in the FCS next year with all the weapons they
have with because I even think with Ritchie with Richet
quarterback or Richard Torres at quarterback, he should be really good.

(22:04):
And I thought he was really good when he got
a chance to play a few years ago, right when
I think it was two years ago, when Calzata got hurt,
he stepped in was a player of the week. This quarterback,
this system has shown the ability to just put insert
a quarterback and that quarterback take his game to the
next level. So offensively, I have no question marks. It's
still the interior of the defensive line. But Sam, if

(22:25):
there's a team from the south right and me and
you have had this conversation on the show multiple times, right,
what is it going to take for a South end
or a SoCon or even a CAAA team now to
get to the national title and be somewhat competitive on paper?
I would argue in the past five or so years,
excluding maybe that Sam Houston team that did it in

(22:47):
the spring, because I don't know what that would have
looked like if that season would have been played in
the fall out, was a really good Sam Houston State team.
You could argue that on paper, this incardinate word team
has the best collection of talent on paper to make
that jump.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, I think so, just with the additions they have,
They've still retained you know.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
A good amount of their talent.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
It's it's crazy when and you and you and me
both tweeted about it, when you know, Roy Alexander enters
the portal and it's kind of like, oh.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Tough loss, but they'll.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Still be fine, Like because you have they have James
coming in, they still have Walthall who was conference self
and Conference player of the Year last year. And you know,
quarterback play you mentioned it, it kind of seems like Torres.
It sounds like it's his job. Because they did have
Richie Muniez transfer in from Weber State and then he
transferred back out into You would imagine, you know, the

(23:42):
the message at the at the end of the spring
what was probably that Torres had a leg up and
I don't know, ui W could still potentially land a
transfer quarterback before next season, but it seems like Torres,
who's now in his third year with the program, a
really quality backup. It seems like he has maybe taken
of that and you just it's one of those positions

(24:04):
in the FCS like you just kind of trust that,
you know, okay, like Montana State and North Quarta State,
like they're gonna be good on the offensive line. They
could lose three starters, they'll be good on the offensive line.
It's still the same. It's kind of the same thing
with UIW at the quarterback position. They lose their starting
quarterback and you kind of just trust the coaching staff
and the system overall that, okay, they'll they'll have pretty
good quarterback play. So it's also like you said as well,

(24:28):
and you can probably tie this int with sax State
as well, where they're making these splash editions in the
second area and at wide receiver and at at running back.
But none of it really matters if you're not good
on the offensive line or the defensive line. And I
thought that that semi final team for UIW a couple
of years ago. Their offensive line, I thought was really good.

(24:49):
They were pushing NDSU around pretty well and creating some
some big running lanes. But it's just that interior of
the defensive line that really was starting to wear down
in that game. And we've seen, you know, a lot
of teams just kind of get get pushed down and
worn down by the NBSUS and the Montana States and
the South Kota States of the world. And so you
definitely have to to load up on the defensive line.

(25:12):
I know one thing did one thing South Dakota State
did in the mid to late twenty tens was they
allocated more scholarships to the defense, to the defensive line,
because yeah, you want a great starting four, but your
two's are going to be important, and by the time
the season ends, you know, your threes are going to
be super important. And so I think, really, no pun intended,
but beefing up the defensive line is super important. And

(25:34):
you know, another Southern team as well to keep an
eye on. I think it's Tarleton State, who could you know.
It's hard to say they're going to be a legit
title contender just yet, but I definitely think they are
trending in that direction, you know, as long as they
stay in the FCS. But I think they found out
last year. And we've talked about this too, like you
don't know what you don't know until you see it.

(25:55):
And we talked about how Tarleton State when they went
to South Dakota, like maybe they can get into a
bit of a track meet, but by the end of
the game, like the trenches are just going to take over.
And that's exactly what happened where Tarlton just couldn't get
off the field, They couldn't get stops, they were on
their heels. And so I think Tarleton is another team
where you look at some of the additions they're making
at the skill positions, and they have Victor Gabliss coming

(26:17):
back will be one of the better quarterbacks.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
In the FCS. But to me, it's offensive line and
defensive line is and it's hard to get impact.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Transfers in those areas because a lot of those guys
are going to the FBS.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
But that to me is the difference maker for.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
UIW to be a I mean, they could easily, not easily,
but they could be a semi finalist. But just because
you're a semi finalist doesn't mean you're a legit national
title contender. And so to me, it's it's definitely in
the trenches of where I need to see UIW make
some strides.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yeah, I'm with you on Tarleton too and what I
think they and sim I've always been of the opinion
that I'll take a really really talented D two kid
over a FBS transfer with no experience, and you kind
of saw because they have a lot of as much
as you know they're bringing back Victor and bringing back
some key pieces, they got some massive holes to replace too,
I mean lose Darius Cooper at times was the best

(27:10):
wide receiver in the FCS last year, like when he
really turned it on. Then you had Kavon Britton too, right,
who was right there in the race, you know, with
guys who are making a push to get up into
that seventeen eighteen hundred rushing yard. They got a lot
of d two kids that have a lot of experience
and that played really well and were All Conference or
All American or led the team in receiving or led

(27:30):
the team in rushing. I thought they got a lot
of kids that could that are going to come in
and expect to play and not be shaken by you know,
not be young kids that you have to wait to
grow up. They're going to be seniors, grad transfers, juniors,
and they're gonna be ready to play because they have
three four years of playing experience at their previous institution.
But I do I agree with you here that I
still think there has to be steps forward on the

(27:53):
offensive line and especially the defensive line, right because I
think Charlton's offensive line last year wasn't terrible. It was
just they had nobody that could go get the quarterback
in my opinion, and they did lack a little bit
of size on the interior. And we even see even
though North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana State might
not have the guy who's going to get you know,
fifteen sixteen, seventeen sacks in the season, right, Sam, they

(28:14):
got a group of guys who are all going to
be in that eight and a half to twelve thirteen range, right,
and it's going to be a group effort. And they
got guys who can go make plays. I don't know
if I saw that from Tarlton last year, but they
got a lot of guys in that spring class that
I thought are going to come in and play big
roles next year for this team.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Let's talk about South Dakota State a little bit now,
one of the I think more intriguing teams to pay
attention to this this upcoming year, because I mean, they
of course they lose their head coach and their entire
coaching staff, and they lose you know, twenty plus guys
to the FBS, most of them following coach Rogers to
Washington States. And you know, it's interesting because if this

(28:55):
happens to any other team, you don't completely write them up,
but they definitely get knocked back, you know, in the
preseason rankings and just the overall vibe about their team.
But at the same time, Southcota State, like I imagine it
is still going to be ranked in the top five,
Like I could still see some people putting them in
the you know, top three in the preseason rankings. I

(29:18):
think I'm probably with you a bit more as as
far as thinking that we think South Kota State is
going to be better than a lot of people think.
I know Timothy is a bit more reserved on that,
which is certainly understandable. You look at the number of
snaps they lose and the star power that they do lose,
and you kind of wonder, like, how how do they
lose all that and still maintain the same level as

(29:41):
far as how far they advance in the postseason coming
off of a semi final appearance. But at the same time,
like who's ready to jump them? You know, is is
Tarlton or uiw ready to jump? Southcota State is like
Rhode Island I think could be a top ten team.
Are they ready to jump South Kota State? I still
think like Illinois State could be a top ten team,

(30:02):
you know, pushing them back a little bit with some
of their transfer portal losses, But you know, are they
ready to jump South Gota State? So where are you
at with South Kota State and kind of your your
outlook for them?

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Do you think you'll see?

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Like how I guess how I prayed it, how I
phrased it is, South Kota State is not going to
be as good as they were last year, but they
could still make it just as far or if not
further in the playoffs this year, just because everyone else
is also.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
Losing some key guys agreed in one thousand percent, and
that's kind of been my argument. I know you just
kind of hinted at me and Timothy's back and forth
because he's a lot less sold on them. I just
you know, I'm with you where it's like, I don't
think we should expect the dominance that we saw at
times right these past two three years with South Dakota State,
where they were just suffocating people defensively. I just think

(30:50):
they've lost too much, right, I want to say we
calculated the stabs. I think it was over three thousand
combined snaps. They lost to the transfer portal and great
and they only return I think four of their top
twenty two defenders from last year. And the thing that
is a little bit concerning, right, and we just kind
of talked about it with Tarlton. The guys that they're

(31:11):
bringing in are largely unproven to this point where they're
not guys who have who are D two all the
Americans or was it another FCS program as all conference.
They're they're adding guys that are you know, former FBS
guys that have a handful of snaps played, right, And
I think that's that's the concerning part. And I understand
people who might be skeptical, but for me, I do

(31:33):
think they have more talent coming back that have potential
than people are giving them credit for. And I just
think there's some young guys on this roster that have
been in the program, been in the been in the street,
the conditioning program, things like that. And then also on
top of that too, Sam Dan Jackson is one of
the guys that have helped build the defensive culture that
we've seen here. And I also think people are overlooking

(31:58):
Idaho's defense going to last year, Sam. We might have
been bullish on Idaho at times last year, but that
defense was really good last year, and I still think
no one would have set the bar where we saw
that defense playing until the injuries kind of piled up
for him, right, But when they came out firing early
in the season, it's the same guy. I think Dan

(32:19):
Jackson is going to get the most he can out
of these players, and I do think where you're going
to see growing pain, Sam is the depth. I think
the starting lineup is going to be really good, if
not one of the better defenses in the FCS. The
drop off is going to be maybe two years ago,
right when Adam Bok had to come sit down, you
got to replace him with the guy who might have
been all conference level. Now, if you're starting linebacker, go

(32:42):
sit down, man. You might have to rely on a
red shirt freshman to come in with way less experience,
and maybe they have a they've recruited really well, but
maybe that redshirt freshman is going to make a mistake
here or there, and that's where it's going to start
adding up. But I'm with you right now, I would
still have them top five I might. I probably won't
put them to top three currently, but I still think

(33:03):
it's a team where if they get the right draw
in the postseason, Sam, it would not surprise me if
we sold South Dakota State in the semifinals next year.
Just you know, it just depends or they could get
a really bad draw, right depending on how the regular
season goes, and they might have to go face North
Dakota State in round two or the quarters and it'll
limit you know, how far they go. But with the
right draw, they're still going to be there. I just

(33:25):
don't know if I look at them right now, Sam
as a team that I would put in the running for.
I don't know how much faith I would have in
them to say they're gonna go win a national title
this year. I still think they're about a year away
from that in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Right yeah. I think.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
The front seven, I think has a chance to be
really good again. You know, there's guys that stayed on
the team that were all you know, either depth guys
or you know guys that did make some splash plays
in past years, and so I think they'll be they'll
be really good, you know, on the front at the
front seven. Secondary is kind of a big question mark

(34:02):
for me. But I know there's like you don't really
expect casual FCS fans to know like who Joe Olman is,
right or like fan tole. I think Chase is a
Chase fan to hole like because they because they barely played,
but you know, just following the program, Like those are
guys that Jimmy Rodgers really really liked, and he talked

(34:22):
about these guys like these. Once these guys step up,
you know they're going to be the next big thing
at at linebacker. And when a guy like Jimmy Rodgers
says that, you go, okay, like you don't bs about
stuff like that, Like these guys are gonna be big time.
But by the time they reached the starting lineup, and
you know, Rogers and the staff certainly push hard to
get these guys go to Washington State, but they stayed behind.
And so I think at the linebacker spot they'll be fine.

(34:44):
Defensive line, they'll they'll be just fine and solid. Secondary,
I'm not too sure about, you know, wide receiver. They
lose Wildie who is really their main target. But I
still think like they got guys with good experience. They
have a couple of young recruits coming in that have
kind of been hyped o up is you know, have
potential to be like a young Griffin Wilde who can
step up right away and make some some big time plays. Uh,

(35:06):
you know as as freshman. You know, running back depth
I definitely think is a big question mark. But Nate
White from Wisconsin seems like he's he's fitting in really
well and it could be a really good starter in
offensive line too. I think they'll be good on the
offensive line. They might not be elite, but they have
like both of their starting tackles are coming back. They
have a guard coming back that started like three games.

(35:28):
They have the SFA transfer who was all a conference
last year. So I think offensive line, you know, could
could be pretty good. And it all goes back to
the quarterback position, which is kind of what I want
to touch on next. Is you look at kind of
the top top tier teams South Gota State, North go
to State, Montana, Montana State. I mean it was kind
of an end of an era last year. He had

(35:49):
Mark Ronowski and Tommy and Mallatt and Cam Miller you know,
all going at it.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
And now we have new.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Blood with those programs at the quarterback spots. And we
know who Chase Mason is. You know, I think he
has you know, Chase Mason could be an All American
or he could really lack consistency. We know who Cole
Payton is for North Kota State. Cole Payton could be
an All American or you know, he could lack you know,
consistency and not you know, be able to process things
very well.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
And so I think that's what makes this.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Year so interesting is, uh, you know, the quarterback position
is really going to determine a lot of things. If
Southcota State it's great quarterback play in NSU, doesn't that
kind of flips how we view those teams, or you
know South Goota State really struggles with consistency at quarterback.
That makes what you know, what we're saying somewhat irrelevant,
you know, because they don't they don't have the quarterback play.

(36:37):
And so I think that is the really interesting part
is you look at these top tier teams and uh,
you know, how their season is going to go is
really dependent on on the quarterback spot, because you know,
South Gota State still has a decent core coming back.
I really like Montana State's core that they have coming
back despite their some of their portal losses, some of
the seniors that they lost. I think the overall core

(36:58):
group returning from Montana State is really impressive. But we
don't know who that quarterback is going to be for
Montana State.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
Yeah, so you know you mentioned three programs. I'm still
most worried about Montana State just because I think all
the other programs have clear replacements, and I think you
might have two clear replacements at North Dakota State. I
know there's been some talk of a quarterback battle. Others.
Other North Dakota State fans will rip me for saying
that there should ever be a quarterback battle because they're

(37:27):
so sold on Cole Payton. But I'll tell you, I
think North Dakota State has two quarterbacks that could start
almost anywhere else in the FCS, and I will stand
on that and listen, Nathan Hayes is no joke, and
I really do think whenever he gets his opportunity, Sam,
I think he's going to be really good. But just
think about how exciting this game is going to be
next year, because Sam, you look at cold what Cole

(37:48):
Payton can do athletically, and on top of that, till
you look at what Chase Mason can do athletically, these
two guys are electricity in a stadium and any given play,
they can take it to the house, right. And also
on top of that too, you kind of saw that
with Tommy Mallott and his explosiveness, but Tommy lacked the
size that both of these guys have. These guys don't
look like Tommy Mallott and so I'm super interested. But

(38:12):
at the same time, you have question marks, like you
said about their throwing capabilities. I think maybe a little
bit more with Cole than even Chase, because everyone was
talking about how live Chase's arm was. It was just
the accuracy part of it. Cole Payton, on the other hand,
has just not really been put in a position where
he's had to throw it much right. He's been the guy,
the gadget guy where they're gonna put him in there
and he's gonna run and he could have double digit

(38:34):
rushing touchdowns in the season. That's just the type of
guy he was. And so I'm very very curious to
see that just the development of both these guys as passers.
But for Montana State to flip it. On the other side,
like you mentioned, I just don't know. I think it's
probably gonna be the kid from Stanford right now. I
mean just based on yeah, based on what I'm here,
because I think they moved one of the kids in
the competition to wide receivers, so he kind of was

(38:56):
on the alts anyway, But you don't bring in a
kid from stan Eff with that much experience from a
P four program where also to Vegan recruited him when
Vegan was at Wyoming, if I'm not mistaken too, when
he was coming out of high school, if I'll correct
on that. So I think that's going to be the guy,
and I just he's kind of in the same vein
where he was the gadget guy, ran a little bit right,

(39:18):
used in red zone packages, but doesn't have a whole
lot of experience throwing the football. But at the same time,
I think Montana State in North Dakota State have the
most I want to say check boxes right where we
kind of know what they have surrounding them because I
know every I don't know if it's even on the docket,
but Montana State, as much as they lost Sam, they
were blowing people out, so often last year that a

(39:40):
lot of these guys that are stepping into starting spots
played a lot last year and we kind of know
what they have coming back. So I think he'll be
surrounded by a lot of talent and we know what
they haven't running back. Right at Montana State, I don't
even think he's gonna be asked to do a lot.
But in terms of South Dakota State, North Dakota State,
you have the same type of question marks where these
guys ceilings are unbelievably high. But if it doesn't go right,

(40:01):
I do trust North Dakota State has someone they can
turn to in Nathan Hayes. Where if Chase Mason isn't
working out for South Dakota State, do we trust a
guy like John Bell or Jack Caate, Like who who's
the guy behind him? If Chase Mason isn't working out,
Because we know North Dakota State isn't going to hesitate
to pull Cole and put Nathan Hazen if it's not
working after two or three games.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, I think Chase probably has a higher ceiling than Cole.
But on the flip side of that, it's just what
you said, if you know, if whatever reason, you know,
the reading the defense and throwing the ball just just
isn't there for for Cole Peyton like they have they
have a good backup option where you know, they could
bring in Hayes and then you know, Peyton could still

(40:44):
be kind of that running threat, whereas I don't know
where South Kota State exactly what would turn to if
you know, things just aren't clicking for for Chase Mason.
So that's just kind of the kind of a variable
in this upcoming season that that makes it so intriguing
is is just you know, how the quarterback play and
this is pretty obvious, but you know, the quarterback play

(41:06):
is really going to determine kind of that national title
pitcher with with QB changes going on in this top tier.
I want to touch on sax State as well and
their FBS aspirations. I know it was it was a
big talking point for a long time. It's it's died
down a little bit compared to January and February just
because we're kind of waiting on the FBS Oversight Committee

(41:28):
to talk about it and potentially vote on it. But
I certainly think this the storyline is going to heat
back up this month and potentially into June to see
whether this waiver for sax State to go FBS independent,
if it happens or not. I'm I've kind of said
I think sixty five percent, I think it is going

(41:49):
to happen, But there is that thirty five percent chance
that I mean, hey, the FBS, and again, this isn't
an NC double A decision like this isn't something the
NC Double office is voting on. It goes to the
FBS Oversight Committee and if they approve it, then it
goes to the D one Council and then they approve it.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
That's kind of how these things.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Go through the packing order of getting of getting approved.
But I mean, the FBS over Oversight Committee is FBS
ads and commissioners, Associate commissioners, associate ads, and I think
it's it's certainly no secret that there is political pushback
on the FBS frankly water in itself down with more
FCS additions, and so I know SAX State is very

(42:29):
confident that this is going to go through, and I
think more likely it is, But like the FBS Overside
Committee could just say like sorry, we're not going to
approve this waiver. There are there are things you have
to do too in order to go from FCS to
to the FBS, and that hasn't happened for you guys yet.
So you know, sorry, we're not going to approve this
waiver because then it could you know, that could open

(42:50):
a dam of other teams wanting to do the same.
So what do you make of just this Sax State
publicity push to to go FBS independent?

Speaker 3 (43:00):
I mean, a little bit torn on it, you know obviously,
like said me, and you have kind of become numb
to teams leaving the FCS, like.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah, it's kind of whatever.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Yeah, I get.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
It, and I mean it's I should take that it's
not whatever, but like it doesn't really take you by
surprise anymore, and you kind of just roll, I guess,
roll with the punches and other team's moving up. So
kind of just is what it is at this point.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
And it just opens up another spot for someone to
step up, right, I mean, and we've seen it in
me and you have kind of talked about this that
the FCS is always going to be Okay, someone's going
to fill the role eventually, right, and especially because it's
sack you know, no offensive Sack State, but it would
be way different if we were talking about North Dakota
State or Montana Montana State leaving. But I do think
it was just like an interesting approach, right because you know,

(43:47):
I always make the joke this is what all the
people who are tired of North Dakota State wanted to
North Dakota State to do right and just force their
way into the door. And you know, for me, just
looking at it from an outsider's perspective, right, because I
don't have all the financial stuff, I don't understand, I
don't maybe don't know the long term plans for SAX State.
It just feels like such an unnecessary risk to take,

(44:10):
right Sam, because we still don't know how all these
new subdivisions are gonna shake out, Right, And we've talked
about this a little bit, Right, what happens if the
P four gets their wish and locks the G five
out of the College Football Playoff? What happens then?

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Right?

Speaker 3 (44:24):
Do we get a G five playoff? Do fcs and
G five merge? Is there another you know divide right
where we see a bunch of people jump up to
G five and that becomes kind of like the new FCS.
There's there's just so many variables in this and then
we've seen this over and over. It's so risky to
go FBS as an independent, and we've seen success stories, right,

(44:46):
but we've also seen a lot of teams try this
and fail and it really damaged a program for multiple
years afterwards, right, because you do have to drop down
and the money is different and the scholarships and the
players might not be you know. And we've seen a
lot of programs suffer the repercussions of trying to make
a jump that's not there. And I think for sack State,

(45:06):
you know that you're you know, and I think what
the president and ad have all said is true, right,
they are a prime candidate for a conference to get,
Like if the Mountain West expands again, it would make
sense if sax State was the next program. Right, So
why force your way into into FBS just to say
your FBS, because there's so many risk because you don't

(45:27):
have any ball tie in SAM, You don't have any
guaranteed conference payouts for Bowl games and or TV money,
so you have to go get your own TV contract
and on top of that too, you have to go
find twelve games a year on your schedule. And most
of those have to be FBS games. So who are
you scheduling because there's only.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yeah, you have to pay for every team to play
you at home? Is that?

Speaker 3 (45:50):
And you know you're gonna have to now because they're
not gonna want the series against UC Davis to And
now you're looking at a situation where you've got to
pay UC Davis, FCSFBS money to come play you in
a robbery game because I'm sure they don't want it
to die like we saw with what Sam Houston and
Stephen F. Austin because Sam Houston didn't want to pay them.
So you're looking at that too. And then on top
of that, Sam, what you've got to sit out two years? Right,

(46:12):
you won't be Bowl eligible and you don't have a
conference championship to play for. You have all these great players,
and then recruiting so well, then a shout out to
Brendan Marion and that staff. But Sam, eventually these players
are going to want to play for something. What are
you selling next year to those recruits? Hey man, hey guys,
what are we playing for here? Because we don't have
a bowl game, we don't have a conference championship, we
don't have a national championship to compete for. We're just

(46:34):
out here playing twelve games to play twelve games, and
so I do wonder, like, what are you selling fans
on coming to watch and what are you selling these
players to come and play for at this point? So
there's just a bunch of I would say, unanswered questions
for me with this move, when you might can just
wait twelve months, right, Sam, you played this year with
this loaded team, and maybe you do go win a

(46:55):
national title and they prove me, you and everybody else wrong,
and then next year you take that and leap into
the Mountain West or the pack whatever you know, the
CUSA or one of these conferences come calling. That would
be the smarter move in my opinion, because what happens
now if you go independent? How long can you fund this? Sam?
Is this a one, two, three, four, five year plan?

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Like?

Speaker 3 (47:16):
How long can we afford to be independent? Because we've
seen that the only program that can sustain independent is
really just Notre Dame. Even Liberty got tired of paying
to be independent and they finally joined the conference. The
Air Force, Armies, Navies, they got tired of doing this
BYU jumps into a conference. So if these programs.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
You mass as well? Yeah to the MAC.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
Yeah, so you have all these schools that have showed
you it's not affordable long term. What happened Sam? If
the Mountain West doesn't come calling, how long can you
afford to be independent? And so I think these are
questions that haven't been asked. I understand the aspiration, but
it just seems like they're trying to kick their way,
kick a door into a room that they might have
access to if they just waited.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Yeah, they're definitely playing the long game here, you know,
because as backwards as this is, but a lot of
things about realignment are backwards is and we touched on
it as well that there is kind of this political
pushback on adding FCS members and that one letter does
make a difference. And you know, I've heard and I
know this has been reported as well, that you know

(48:22):
there are there were people within the Mountain West office
that really wanted to add North Go To State as
his football only member, which would have been a dream
scenario for the Bison. And they would have said yes
in a second. And you know, they're kind of thinking
like NDSU could be the next Boise State because look
at the success they've had. Look at that bast opponents
they've had and the titles they've won in you know,
their facilities and NFL draft picks, and you know, I

(48:44):
did the math, and NDSU since twenty fourteen has more
draft picks than every single current Mountain West team except
for two. I think it was Boise State, and I
want to say San Diego State. And though there are
some within the Mountain West office that wanted to add NDSU,
but they don't make that decison, and it's it's the
university presidents, and they wanted to add Northern Illinois because
Northern Illinois is already FBS established and they don't have

(49:08):
to worry about, you know, dipping down into the FCS,
even even if it is the top program in the FCS,
and they don't have to worry about, you know, kind
of working with that school during the two year transition program.
And so my point with SAX State is as backwards
as this is. Let's say, in twenty twenty eight, the
PAC twelve or the Mountain West, you know, whoever they

(49:29):
need to add a school, sax State is more likely
to get that invite as an FBS independent going five
and seven every year compared to had they stayed FCS
and won three FCS national titles in a row. Like
just being FBS independent in name only is that's going
to get them a more likely conference invite down the road.

(49:51):
So I think it makes sense for them because of that.
I also think it makes sense because they almost backed
themselves into the corner of going FBS no matter what,
because I think they that Sack twelve committee formed, you know,
just to kind of see what was you know, if
they could get some momentum when when the PAC twelve

(50:14):
needed some members, and I think they grew so much
momentum and realized like, oh crap, Like there's actually a
lot of money coming into this. There's a lot of
community engagement you know, going into this, maybe much more
than we thought that, Like we've hyped this up. Now
we have to deliver because if if we don't get
a conference invites and we stay in the FCS, then

(50:34):
like all these people that quote unquote jumped on the
bandwig and they're gonna be like, oh, oh all right,
well let us know when you go FBS and we'll
be here.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
So like they almost like kind of.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Like like we got to do whatever we got to
do to go FBS. And I think we all realize
this at the start, and maybe it became more clear
that like, sorry, the PAC twelve isn't calling the Mountain
West was probably more likely, but they didn't call. Conference USA.
I don't think is too interested in expanding, especially too
much out of their footprint, and so I think sax

(51:05):
State realized that, you know what, we might have to
go to the independent route, and then they stay. They
started chasing that down and they got the paperwork filed,
and so I think it makes sense for them to
do this now. But I'm with you as far as
the you know, what happens three four years from now
if you are independent and that conference invite isn't coming
and you don't have any rivalries or you know, conference

(51:26):
titles to play for, they're like, I know, players say
they don't care, but they like all a conference weekly
honors and in all conference honors, and you don't get
any of that if you're if you're FBS independence, and
I think, you know, just small stuff like that starts
to add up where I don't know if sax State will,
like no one ever really will say they regret making
the jump. Like there's been some FCS to FBS teams

(51:48):
that have really really struggled. They're never gonna say, oh,
we kind of regretted that move.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
So I don't know if it is.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
I've only heard one. I've only heard one say they've
regretted that was fan you Oh.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Yeah, true, Yeah, I suppose that is one. But even
like Idaho who left and came back like they still
kind of you know, spun it differently. Theyat Florida and
m was man. That was certainly a unique scenario.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
For U, Yes, for sure, And that's a program that
also tried to go independent and it just they didn't.
And also I think sax State has way more funding
and money probably than FAM. You had to like manage
that and it's hard to schedule, right because there was
a bunch of HBCU tie ins and robberies. But I
just you know, and you make a good point, Sam,
you know, and it's funny enough. I do wonder if

(52:34):
you see Davis having all their sports added to the
Mountain West pushed this movee even more right because there
was like that rumor that there was like a hush
hush deal that if the Mountain West expanded again since
we have all your sports, Hey, well we'll bring you in.
You see, Davids, like, you'll be the next school, You'll
be the next FCS school we had, right. I wonder
if sax State going FBS independent kind of gives them

(52:56):
a loophole and the sax State ends up getting that invite.
That would be the ultimate Hey, little brother, Like we're
we're the big brother in this rivalry now. And I
do wonder if that played a role that UC Davis
was starting to be a little bit aggressive as well.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Yeah, I know some people are pretty convinced that you
Ce Davis will be joining the Mountain West for football
by by the end of the twenty twenties.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
But we'll see just with with movement that happens. There
one more.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Realignment thing to touch on real quick. That's William and
Mary leaving the CIA CIA football, I should say technically
CIA football in the CIA, they're the same thing, but
kind of they separate things a little bit. So they're
leaving CIA football for the Patriot League. Similar move as Richmond's.

(53:43):
But what's interesting is William and Mary is staying in
the CIA for its for its other sports. But what
do you make of this move of the tribe leaving
the CIA and they'll be joining the Patriot League next season.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
I think it makes complete sense, and I'm surprised it
even took this long because sim you know, I think
we both kind of talked about it independently as soon
as we saw Richmond make the jump. Richmond and William
and Mary are tied at the hip in terms of football.
They're not going to be in separate conferences. Now. We
did see, if I'm not mistaken, they did sign an
agreement like just in case they William Mary didn't go

(54:17):
that they were still going to play the game.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
That was somewhat weird timing because it was either a
week before or two weeks before where they announced like, hey,
we're continuing this rivalry, which is one of the oldest
rivalries in college football. We're continuing this through twenty thirty.
And then a week or two weeks later, Hey, William
and Mary, is they're joining your conference anyway. So I
don't know why they announced that if they probably already knew.

(54:40):
Maybe they were just teasing. I don't know what it was,
just for your time.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Look like a contingency player, maybe like because they were
proving negotiations here because because I don't know if William
and Mary would have made the jump if the CIA
didn't allow them to keep their other sports in the conference, right,
that would probably have pushed the tomline back, because then
you would have to find a whole new conference. I
don't think they would join the conference as a full
time member. I don't think they wanted to write. I

(55:05):
think the CIA fits them a lot better, but they
had to be with Richmond football wise, like it just
it just makes too much sense. And I kind of
look at the CIA too. I think we've taught to
talk about this. Those top programs looked at the additions
of the CIA and just I don't think they love
the direction of the conference. I really don't. And I've
heard this from fans, from you saw players. I think

(55:29):
coaches even know this to a point that some of
the additions. I just think they've gone through a rough patch. Man,
because Sam, you go, you look back ten years, there's
some programs they added that would have been really competitive
a handful of years ago, and they're just going through
some of their worst stretches, like North Carolina A and
T in the late twenty tens, would have been super
competitive in the CIA when they were winning Celebration Bowls.

(55:51):
It just happened they got added when they are really,
really bad and made a really you know, Vincent Brown
didn't work out, they had stuffn't want a conference game,
if I'm not mistaken. So like that Campbell was recruiting
really well, but then Mike Minner resigns. That program has
never put together the wins. Townsend has regressed a little
bit right from where they were even in the mid
twenty ten. So I think some of these programs just

(56:13):
felt they need to move on. And I'll say this,
I would be very interested to see what happens with
Villanova next because Villanova's sports are already not in the CIA.
They're really just a football only member, if I'm not mistaken,
So I could see Villanova being the next one. I
don't know if it will happen this realignment cycle now,
but I think this time next year, me and you

(56:34):
could be talking about Villanova being the next team to
join the Patriot League because I do think they want
to get to that ten number. That way, it could
it will help with conference scheduling even in things out,
and I think Villanova is the team next for the
Patriot League that they're probably gonna look at. And I
don't think the CAAA minds either, because that will help

(56:55):
them even bring the number down and have a more
realistic conference schedule where these teams can play each other
more often as well, because I just think he got
so big right to what was it up to fifteen
or sixteen, there's just no way to manage that in
terms of conference scheduling. So I think this is honestly
as big of a loss it is for the CIA,
it kind of helps the CIA level set and now, okay,

(57:15):
this is the teams we have, we need to figure
out where we stand in the FCS moving into this
next stage of college football.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Yeah, I think you're a spot on with you know,
the the and these new teams that the new additions
like they certainly get very mad when when when people
say this of like you know, some of these the
partying members, they just aren't thrilled with, you know, with
the overall direction and.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Some of the new additions made.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
So wasn't surprised to see William and Mary leave. And
it's just for the CIA. I mean, the CIA was
so good in the two thousands and they were still
good in the twenty tens, and like even recently, like
you know, I try to be pretty balanced, and you know,
I give the CIA flowers, you know when they when
they deserve it, like they they routinely like send some

(58:00):
of the most guys to the NFL. If you want
to count rookie minicamp invites, their their ads are near
the top. If you want to take out rookie minicamp
invites and only count draft picks and udfa's, they still
are at or or or near the top. And so
there's still a ton of good individual talents in in
the CIA. And I know this year was or this

(58:22):
last year was really really disappointing in the playoffs for them,
but with their performances. But two years ago they had
a semi finalists and the quarterfinalists, and so they have
still been competing, uh decently, but still certainly a drop
off in the overall strength.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Of the CIA. And I just think they.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
They watered themselves down a little bit too much because
they try to replace James Madison in bulk.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
And you kind of mentioned that, you kind of you know,
mention this.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Like I thought Mommuth was a great ad I thought
North Carolina.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
A and t U was a really good ad.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Campbell I think was fine, but once like Hampton, it
was kind of like I don't know. And then the
last one was Bryan's where it was really like what
is the CIA doing here? I understand they wanted to
maybe go from fifteen to sixteen, but like Brian just
doesn't move the needle at all, and then Delaware leaves,
and then Richmond leaves, and now William and Mary's leaving,
like those are four of your I guess bigger you know,

(59:19):
brand names in the CIA, and Villanova could be that
next team. So I just think it's it's a tough
spot for the CIA, and it certainly is allowing other
casual FCS observers to kind of keep on piling on
that conference.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
I really do think, what when you saw the Bryant
pivot where it really kind of got off the rails
for the CIA. And this is just from an outsider's
point of view. You know, maybe I'm off face here, Sam,
but I really think if you remember they made a
big push for Howard Yep a few years ago and
that and from what I was told, that was almost
like pinned the paper locked in, and the MIAC made

(59:55):
a big push to keep them there because if Howard leaves, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Had Yeah, they had to make that big push.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Yeah, because if Howard leaves to the MEAC is done.
And I got that on go thor because there are
other conferences that are reaching out to NCCU in South
Carolina State that conference. You can't have a football conference
with five teams, So Howard staying in the MIAC really
hurt them. Because let's just be honest, maybe Howard football
brand wise, right SAM is not a national title contender
like James Madison, but brand wise is arguably one of

(01:00:22):
the most recognizable brands in FCS football just in terms
of alumni and campus and money and spending all this
kind of stuff. That would have been a huge addition
compared to like Bryant for them, right So, I think
missing out on Howard was a huge turning point for
this whole realignment thing for the CIA and missing out
on Howard where if you add to Howard, you probably

(01:00:44):
go get a Morgan State as well, which probably still
has a bigger brand than Bryant because Morgan State would
need somewhere to go to and so maybe you look
at this a little bit different, but also too and
we talked about it, some of these newer teams and
teams that maybe haven't been historic national title or playoff
contenders just have to take a step forward. We've seen

(01:01:04):
Elon be right there on the cusp, right, and they
just haven't seemed to kind of step over the led
yet to a true contender. Ma Myth has a lot
of talent, and my Myth has had some really good teams.
They just seem to falter here and there. Right. They
had a big FBS win last year and then just
got banged up and lost a handful of the games.
They shouldn't have. New Hampshire shown some promise, right. You
just talked about Rhode Island potentially being a top ten team.

(01:01:26):
That's a team that has not been to that level yet.
Townsend has rebounded very well under this new staff, and
we even saw Stony Brooks Sam last year getting the
playoff conversation. How big would it be for a program
like that to take a step forward. So I think
they just need some of these other programs get their
programs in the right direction. I think we've started to
see that with some really good coaching hires. It's just

(01:01:47):
going to take postseason success to kind of I would
say turn some of the doubters right, because there's a
lot of people looking to make the caa jokes, and
I think what it starts with is not just making
the playoffs, but some of these teams like the Rhode Island,
the New Hansers to mom missed that Elon's got to
get to the postseason and stream together a handful of
wins because a few quarter final appearances. I think the
talk will die down tremendously for this conference.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Yep, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Okay, last question here, and I'll go first, because you know,
I kind of we're talking about like who's gonna be
top three, top five? And I'm obviously still very early,
but I wanted to ask you, if you had to
rank teams right now, I will just go top five.
Who would that be just as far because typically once
you know, there's not always five legit national title contenders

(01:02:34):
in the FCS. But if you're a top five year
at least in that conversation right now, if I had
to vote right now, I would still go NDSU number one.
I think I would probably put Montana States number two.
It would have been South Dakota, but South Dakota and
now with some of their losses, slid back to number three.
For me, number four, I still think South Kota State

(01:02:57):
at number four, and then ui W I think would
round out my top five is that same order, same teams,
a little bit of different order. Anyone else you would
maybe slide into that top five.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
Yeah, I think INDIASU should probably be the consensus number
one right now among voters. I have Montana State at
two right now as well. The one change I do
have I have Incardinate Word at three just because right
now I understand people are going to freak out because
if they get to the postseason and lose to a
Valley team, I'll never hear the end of it. Even
though it's May fourth or fifth. But I still think

(01:03:33):
on paper and Carnate Word has a top three roster
in the FCS with what they have coming back, and
they should be really good. I think four I probably
go South Dakota State right now, and then five is
tough man because I think there's there's three teams I'm
looking at here. Sam one would be South Dakota still
and then I also would throw Illinois State into that

(01:03:54):
mix I'm a huge fan of Writtenhouse at quarterback Tommy Writtenhouse.
I think he had the quietest three thousand yard passing
year plus almost one thousand yards rushing. And if he
takes a big step forward, man, that team could be
really good. And they had so many injuries defensively, if
you remember, right before the seasons sound they lost so
many players, and then the other one and this one's

(01:04:16):
gonna come kind of out of left field here maybe
a little bit. Is a team you mentioned earlier. I
really like what Rhode Island has coming back. I really
do think offensively they're going to be there. And then
bringing back aj At Edge who transferred to Memphis came
back all the American level edge rusher. That was a
massive boost for the defense. I do want to see
what they have secondary wise, but I think Rhode Island

(01:04:38):
is a firm top ten team. It could be somewhere
in that five to eight range in my opinion, So
that would be where I have. I would give the
nod here though, to Illinois State right now just because
of everything South Dakota loss, So it'd be North Dakota State,
Montana State incarnate words South Dakota State, Illinois State would
be my top five right this second.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
A couple more because I like the Illinois State one.
I think Rhode Island as well. Like you mentioned h
I definitely think will be a top ten team with
potential to uh to rise up. Really interested in Tarleton
State obviously if they could reload it and take another
another step forward.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
UH.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Montana, I think it's going to be interesting because it's
it's funny looking at them because a lot of question
marks when it comes to the personnel. I think they'll
be good on the offensive line, uh, quarterback if they
stick with one guy. I think, you know, they could
be much better at quarterback if they stick with one guy.
And Montana always you know, has receivers that that step up.

(01:05:43):
Totally revamped defensively, but they're bringing in like Elijah Tolbert,
who's one of my favorite linebackers when he was healthy
from Eastern Illinois and then the the second team All
Conference kid from from Portland State whose name is escaping
me right now. So they're they're revamping their entire defense
from Montana, but you you have a lot of question

(01:06:03):
marks about the personnel and the two d from Montana.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
But then you look at their.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Schedule and you go, man, they could go eleven and one,
they could go twelve and oh, because they get all
their toughest games at home. All of a sudden, you
give them a two seed, and like, who's going to
go into Missoulan win in the playoffs. And so it's
interesting when you look at Montana and you go, I
kind of question like the like who's going to step

(01:06:29):
up and the talent level they have on their team.
But at the same time, you look at their schedule
and you go, this could be a team that rises, rises, rises,
gets a good seed and makes a decent playoff run
and then one more. And this is I highly doubt
I'm going to rank them in my top ten, not
probably not even top fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
But I'm interested in Mamath And yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Maybe that is just because I look at the quarterback
spot and Robertson could have a pretty good argument to
be the number one returning an FCS quarterback. Certainly Set
certainly stats wise is the number one returning quarterback. But
like you can put Bauman in there as well. Top three,
you know, Victor gableis as well, top three, But I
really like what they have coming back at the quarterback spot. Offensively,

(01:07:11):
they'll be loaded again. Schedule sets up pretty nicely. I
think they could get an FBS win. So Mamuth is
a team that I think I will preseason rank I
don't know where, like eighteen to twenty five, something like that,
but that could be a dark horse team as well
in the FCS.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Their offense, they should score like forty something points a game.
They're gonna be so good offensively, I mean, because you
got to think they bring back Josh Darry Trey Neil
at wide receiver was a freshman All the American for
our publication, Rodney Nelson was a freshman All American and
running back as well. Derek robertson you just mentioned comes back.
It's just it all starts on the on the defense, right,

(01:07:48):
It's gonna be so interesting to see how defensively they're
gonna be able to hold up, right, because they've been
able to score points every year. It's just they'll put
up forty points a game, but they're gonna allow forty
eight against a really good team. And it's just that same.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
You know Washington in the twenty tens.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
Exactly, So they just got to put it together. So
I'll be interested. And then just two more quick ones
for you. One that I don't think is going to
be a preseason top twenty five team, Sam, that I
would not be surprised would finish a top ten team
in that Southern Illinois. I really like what they have
coming back because a lot of people, a lot of voters,
Unless I'm not shading any voters, I get it. You

(01:08:27):
look at their record, right, why would I put them
on my top twenty five? But then you look at
all the guys they lost the injury that's coming back healthy.
I'm telling you, I don't think he's going to be
in any top ten quarterback rankings or anything, but DJ
Williams has the potential to be arguably one of the
best quarterbacks in the country coming back. He was playing
unbelievable football before he got hurt against the Cardinate Word

(01:08:48):
and they beat a really good and Cardinate Word team,
you know, and then it just fell off the wheel
because I think they were missing at once point, Sam
like sixteen starters due to injury off the opening day roster.
So I thought, I really like what they added defensively
out of the portal. Now listen that losing a guy
like Bogel, who was an All American edge rusher, was big,
but they bring in a lot of guys. I really

(01:09:08):
like nas Hill that they added out the transfer portal
to Shaan Gibson. I think in terms of this roster,
there's gonna be really good and then one last one
and this is the team I've been waiting to break out.
And I've been pushing this train for a while. And
I know they lost Cole Gonzalez this all season. I'm
a huge fan of Arran Dickens, a quarterback at Western Carolina,
and I think this team's going to be really good.

(01:09:28):
And I was talking to someone about the comparison here
and Sam, I don't you know, I would love to
hear the comments on this. But he reminds me of
a young Lindsay Scott when he was at Nichols, a
little bit undersized super athletics. I think Terren's about five
to eleven one point eighty out of South Florida, but
the arm on this kid is unbelievable. I think he's
ahead of where Lindsay Scott was when he was throwing out.

(01:09:50):
Is he gonna have a Lindsay Scott type season? I'm
not saying that, but just in terms of watching the film,
his ability to make plays outside the pocket, freestyle when
things break down, and only I think in seven games
last year Sam he was through for like fourteen hundred yards,
twelve touchdowns, three picks is just unbelievable for a true freshman.
They bring back Colombo at wide receiver, they have Ken

(01:10:11):
Moore back at corner. They're gonna have a really good offense.
And I think defensively they've done a good job in
the portal and developing some guys that are gonna step up.
Their very experienced on the defensive line. They got some
key piece of secondary. Wise, if there's a year with
everything Mercer loss, with the question marks surrounding Furman, Chattanooga
lost a lot in the portal under graduation. This is

(01:10:33):
the year Kerwin Bell. He's been right at the prespice right.
This is the year he's got to get it done
to win the sookon. I think Western Carolina could be
a team that sneaks up on people who almost got
Montana last year on the road in Missoula. They had
a lot of close games. This is a team I
think could take the next step this next year.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Yeah, I like that one.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
That's interesting too, because I think last year they were
getting a lot of the preseason hype as being that
breakout team and you know, despite losing a decent amounts. Yeah,
I like that pick has been a sneaky good pick there.
You know, they seem like they have things in place
to to really be successful and be a top Solcon team,
but their weeked week consistency was certainly.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Lacking last year.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
So yeah, great stuff here, Zach. Really appreciate you jumping on.
We'll get you back on here and no time and
you know, talk about all the all the fun off
or fun on the field stuff. But it was great
to have you on for this offseason episode to talk
about all the off the field happening is going around
the subdivision.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
Absolutely, man, I miss our weekly episodes. It just means
that football is getting closer that we got to jump
back on here, talk some big storylines, man, looking forward
to this season, looking forward to pre season top twenty five,
all the Americans positional rankings. Man, we're finally almost a
previous season.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
I hate the off season content where it's just feels
so thin. There's something to talk about, really ready to
break down some of these players and teams man, so
really looking forward to it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
I mean the season is the best part of the
year obviously, but I think summer is really fun as well,
with the team previews and player previews. It's so much
of January, February, March is tracking who's leaving, but then
as you start looking at who's coming back, you go, Okay, actually,
you know, I think the FCS will be will be
just fine with the with the amount of talent coming back.
So yeah, thank you once again, Zach, thank you everyone

(01:12:17):
for listening, and we'll catch you guys on the flippity
flipp

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