December 18, 2023 • 47 mins
Today if you struggle with people pleasing this one’s for you. My guest Amy Green Smith, life coach and communication expert, shares some insights to help empower people pleasers. She talks about the origins of people pleasing, why we people please, and when people pleasing makes sense. Amy defines people pleasing as sacrificing something of self to make sure that other people are happy. Often it’s rooted in a feeling of self inflicted sense of threat, lack of value or unworthiness. When that’s the case, we can equate pleasing others with our worth and self preservation. If this sounds familiar, grab a cuppa something wonderful and join us! https://amygreensmith.com/
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hi, Hi'm Jennifer. Are welcometo the Feminine Roadmap Podcast, a global
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(00:27):
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and share this podcast so that wecan share this amazing content with as many
(00:49):
women as we can. Today,friends, we're going to be talking about
people pleasing. You know, whatis the origin of people pleasing? Why,
why do we tend to people please? And when is it a good
idea to use the skill of peoplepleasing? And to have this conversation with
me today is Amy green Smith.She's a life coach, a hypnotherapist,
(01:11):
and a communication expert. Amy,thank you so much for being on the
show today. Hi, Gina,I'm so excited to chat with you.
So I have to let the audiencein on our history. So Amy and
I both worked for a major cosmeticcompany and she was my trainer, and
I mean like way way way back, So we have this like makeup and
(01:33):
other lifetime connection. And I wasso excited because she went on and did
a podcast, wrote a book.I'm doing a podcast. We've brought ourselves
together today for a reunion to talkabout this idea of people pleasing, and
I would love to have you sharea little bit about yourself and a little
bit about why this message woh.So, I think for many of us
(01:56):
who are in the personal development fear, we tend to have something that we
surmounted ourselves in order to then givecredence to sharing that with other people.
In my situation is very similar.So yes, as you mentioned, we
probably were connected about twenty years agosomething like it. It's probably approaching that,
(02:19):
yes, and which is wild.So it's very cool to see you
in this element. So thank youfor having me. So my story around
people pleasing and kind of finding myvoice, which I look at those things
as being typically antithetical, right,Like there's the people pleasing behavior of making
sure that everyone else is okay,And then there's the ability to actually speak
(02:44):
up and articulate what your wants,needs and opinions in a way that can
be heard. And I think forme this really surfaced early on. For
a bit of context, I grewup in a very, very extremely conservative,
born again Christian family and my fatherhad a master's in divinity and a
(03:05):
doctorate in ministry, so he wasdefinitely not messing around. And I was,
by all accounts the quote good kid. I was the eldest, and
I put myself through college, gotmarried young, moved out of the house,
started working when I was fourteen.And my brothers did not really follow
that path. They had trouble withthe law, did some jail time,
(03:25):
didn't go to school, that sortof thing, and that kind of comes
into play a little bit later.So everything kind of comes to a head
in seven when my father passes away, and having a makeup background, I
felt very convicted that I was goingto do make up for his viewing.
So we've reached the dead dad makeupportion of the chat today. But I
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felt like it would be kind ofa jerk move to be have that skill
set and then be like, oh, Dad, go get your own makeup
artist for the re viewing. SoI felt extremely convicted that, you know,
I wanted to do the makeup forhis viewing, and I also wanted
to speak at the service. Andup until that time, and you might
remember this version of me, upuntil that time, I really shielded my
(04:16):
family from who I truly was thatI identify as queer, that I am
no longer subscribed to the faith thatI was raised in and have really changed
in so many ways. And sowhen my husband and I would go visit
my parents, I would kind ofsay, Okay, no cussing, no
(04:38):
drinking, no talking about any liberalagenda, no gay rights, no Howard
Stern, no South Park like justand so I was really kind of presenting
this facade and this veneer, andso it kind of came to head the
day of his service. I feellike I'm winning at daughter because I'm doing
(04:59):
dead dad makeup, and then I'mgetting on this platform speaking to hundreds of
people, all who carry a verydifferent ideology than myself. Get back home
to my mom's house, and shefinds it the most opportune time to say,
it feels as though your father andI have failed as parents because the
three of you are no longer subscribingto the faith traditions that you were raised
(05:24):
with. So it didn't matter thatI was this incredible human. It didn't
matter that I had stayed out ofjail and actually had gotten a degree and
made a lot, made something ofmyself. Because I didn't subscribe to the
faith traditions, I was grouped intothis sort of disappointment and I could only
(05:46):
muster to say to her, uh, you probably shouldn't say that to a
child, and she said, well, that's just how I feel. And
I realized in that moment that thereis a very there's oftentimes a crucial pivotal
point when you have to decide betweenmaking everyone else happy and making you happy.
(06:10):
And I don't think that speaking upfor yourself or giving voice to things
is always an ultimatum. In fact, I think it's frequently not an ultimatum.
But I realized in that moment Icould keep shape shifting, I could
keep contorting and twisting to be whatshe wanted. But if push came to
shove and I needed to decide betweenmaking her happy and making me happy,
I was going to choose me.And I'll tell you what the trajectory after
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that was incredibly combative, adversarial.Like once I sort of decided I was
not gonna be shrouded in this veneeranymore, it was like I wanted to
fight about absolutely everything we were polarizedon, and I sort of was a
bat out of hell. And itwasn't until many many years later, of
(06:58):
realizing that I had to apologize formy delivery of how I was presenting stuff
to my mom, that I realized, oh, you can actually have conversations
about incredibly polarizing belief systems. Youcan ask adult children to children to move
out of the house, you canask for a divorce, you can sever
(07:19):
a business alliance, and you cando all of those things with the utmost
grace and kindness. And that reallybecame sort of the impetus behind the work
that I do now. So it'skind of twofold. It's this internal element
of genuinely believing that you matter.It's your worthiness, it's believing that my
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wants, needs and opinions are valid, believing in your own enoughness, and
then the external element of okay,if that's how I reside, if that's
the place that I embody, thenhow do I communicate that with the outside
world. How do I deal withoverbearing in laws who maybe have different beliefs
than I do, or who wantto feed my children things I don't want
them to eat, Or how doI deal in the workplace with somebody who
(08:05):
says something that's really offensive to mewithout quote opening up a can of worms.
And so the logistics and the semanticsof difficult conversations really became my wheelhouse.
But again, antithetical to that isour pull to people please, And
I started really digging into that tounderstand sort of the human behavior behind it.
(08:26):
But that story that very real.Hiding and acquiescing to others around me
was a part of my process andeven being able to teach it. Now,
let's talk a little bit about howpeople like. What are the conditions
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that often surround people pleasers like what? Obviously I think it's often a personality
type. You know, there arecertain people who are more inclined to people
please than others. So let's talka little bit about what you've learned around
what are kind of the you mightbe a people pleaser if you know,
(09:09):
like, what causes that? Andwhat are the identifiers of a typical people
pleaser. Well, I'm really gladyou brought that up, Gina, because
there are oftentimes when we say theword people pleaser or that sort of moniker,
we get a very specific vision.We think of somebody who maybe is
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really meek and mild, maybe theirposture is a little bit more concave or
repressed. We think of them beingvery soft spoken, not really flexing an
opinion very much. And I reallythink that's fairly myopic. I think being
a people pleaser, at least inmy approximation, is more that we are
(09:54):
sacrificing something of self in order tomake sure that other people are happy,
caretaking for other people's emotions. So, for example, if you are super
concerned about what you look like whenyou're running errands because you might run into
someone that's a little bit people pleasserie, Right, it's like, ugh,
(10:16):
I have to give myself all thisextra work to get dulled up when
there's a cost, like I'd ratherbe spending my time doing something else,
but I'm doing it to placate truly, how women are supposed to be perceived
in our culture, right, Sowe have to look at it through a
much more nuanced and a larger lens, I think, But as far as
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like where it comes from, Ithink it's really helpful to understand that people
pleasing is rooted in our fear response. So we if we've heard of fight,
flight, freeze fawn, right,fawn is a little bit newer on
the platform here, but fan isessentially if we're talking about it in primitive
terms, if you are about tobe attacked, let's stay by a mountain
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lion. We know what fight,freeze, fawn or flea looks like.
But fawning would be to say,here, kitty, kitty, here's some
food. Go over there. Youknow you would be Essentially, fawning is
either placating or acquiescing to an aggressoror a captor in order to stay safe.
So our primitive ancestors had to belongto a group in order to stay
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safe. You didn't have tribes ofone. You had to be together in
order to survive. So that isalso how we've gotten If you look at
Maslow's hierarchy of needs, one ofour primitive human needs is for belonging.
That comes from our survival. Weneeded to be connected to other people to
continue to grow and live. SoI think recognizing that a majority of time
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we down people pleasing as a wayto protect ourselves. For many people,
that starts in childhood. Maybe youhad an abusive caregiver or an alcoholic parent
or something like that, where yourealized that being quiet, sliding under their
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radar, walking on those eggshells keptyou safe. Well, that starts to
embed into the subconscious mind that thisbehavior people pleasing now has a positive association
in your brain. So then whenyou go into academia and you're dealing with
colleagues, or you're dealing with otherstudents, or you're dealing with the workplace,
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or you're dealing with dating, youhave a positive association with pleasing those
other people because that's what has registeredis safe to you your entire life.
So I think that piece we needto understand. We don't just develop these
habits for the hell of it.We do it because there's a message internally
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for us that this is how youstay safe. I was just listening to
it was like a maybe a minuteand a half of this guy named John
Deloney and he was talking to agal on his show, and they took
a SoundBite of it, and itwas talking about you know, she'd been
rejected by her father. She andI had a very similar story. So
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I was interested in what he hadto say. And at the very end
of the SoundBite, this is whatI want to get to he talked about,
that's your nervous system, that's yourbody like it sets my husband and
I talked to him about this ishis family, his mom. I caregive
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she passed, but it triggered.It was the longest trigger that I had
experienced with another person. And Irealized that our nervous systems have set points,
right yes, and those fears,those anxieties, those whatever, it's
like our body starts at that level. And for someone whose set point is
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very high towards stress, anxiety,fear, they're already on the threshold before
anything's really happened. Does that makesense? So people plasers are literally standing
on the doorstep because their set pointis right there. They don't even understand
themselves. Wouldn't you agree, there'sthis it's so automatic you don't even know.
Your body tells you, oh no, you're not safe, and you're
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and then you automatically do the behavior. And that's where we see hyper like
overfunctioning or hyper vigilance, and itis. And this is also why we're
seeing extreme levels of audioimmune issues andburnout and overwhelm, because what you're talking
about is residing in a sympathetic nervoussystem majority of the time. So our
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sympathetic nervous system is exactly fight flightfreeze font it's warding off some sort of
impending threat. But now it's notlike we just go hunt for food and
then we get to come back toour safe camp and chill out. Now
we've got, oh my gosh,this bill I'm going to be paid,
and we're on a twenty twenty fourhour news cycle about all this stuff that's
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happening in the world that is incrediblyscary and egregious. And then oh my
gosh, I forgot to bake cupcakesfor my kid's class, and oh my
gosh, I have to sign thiscontract before and so what all of those
are are little intense pieces of threatthat send in our sympathetic nervous system,
so we don't have time to comedown off of that and go into paris
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sympathetic, which is commonly called tendand befriend or rest and digest, or
you know some other fun basically it'sthe chill button. Yeah, that's right,
that's right. So also what you'respeaking to is how new trauma will
kick up old trauma. So ifyou have something new that shows up that
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is anything like something you experienced withan ex or with a parent or caregiver,
your body goes we remember this,we remember this, and it was
not good send in whatever defenses youhave. And so sometimes it's people pleasing,
Sometimes it is fighting, it's beinga little bit more vitriolic. Sometimes
it's running away. Sometimes it's completenumbing out and freezing or procrastinating. So
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I think we have to recognize thatbeating ourselves up for whatever behavior we've embodied
is not really helpful. It's morehelpful to ask yourself, Okay, when
I am in this place where I'mso concerned about whatever everybody else is thinking,
am I doing that from self preservation? Or am I doing that from
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a lack of self worth? Yeah? So what I mean by that is
if you are a part of anymarginalized identity in a larger body and disabled
body, a queer body, afemale body like black and brown body,
if you're residing in any of thoseintersections, that means that there are likely
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situations where you may have to placatean alternative person in order for you to
stay safe. So there are timeswhen that is completely permissible. Abuse of
relationships are a perfect example of that. That's not the time for you to
beat yourself up about your communication skills, that's time for you to seek safety.
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Yes, that nuance is incredibly important. However, I would say that
a majority of the time we arefeeling a sense of threat that actually is
self inflicted. So that is whenyou are not doing something based off of
self, you're doing it based offof then I must be valuable, or
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then I might be worthy, ormaybe I'll be enough if this person loves
me, if my boss accepts me, if I get this job. Those
are the situations where we're equating pleasingother people with our worth, not with
our self preservation. So that's thekey distinct question you have to ask yourself
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as I'm being pulled to people pleasehere, is that because of self preservation?
Am I actually in danger? Oris this just new? Because like
you said about your example of gettingtriggered, it hits you. It's a
gut response, it's intuitive, andyou're like, what am I I don't
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know what to do with myself,So we have to train that to respond
differently, otherwise it's going to keepgoing on that cycle. But we do
have neuroplasticity of the brain. Weare able to create neuropathways, and which
essentially means you absolutely can teach anold dog new tricks. It doesn't matter
how far down the people pleasing pathyou've gone. You can absolutely start discerning
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when it's in service of view andwhen it's not. You know, the
brain science, the neuroplasticity. That'sa fascinating thing because what we're talking about
is also neuroplasticity that was ingrained inour brain. Right. It's basically us
becoming aware of these patterns and Ifor me, one of the things is
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what are you feeling in your bodyand where you know? Because usually if
I'm when I was working through myown trauma, I had very specific trigger
points, and I began to recognize, oh, before my brain, let's
say, recognize, before I becameaware that a trigger was happening, my
body knew yes, I, andso I began to learn that the feeling
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within nanoseconds, the emotion was gonnajust come blowing through, do you know
what I mean? And so Ithink that when we see people pleasing,
it seems so banal, doesn't it. It's you know, it's not like
the kind of trauma that maybe thatI experienced where it's like I really wasn't
safe. Yes, and so anythinganyone that comes near that I might instant
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no, you know. But it'sto your point, that self worth piece,
that piece of feeling like I onlyhave value if right, And I
think that's a good thing to becomeaware of. Because other people are very
comfortable with our habits. It servesthese people for us to be the one
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who appeases, pleases, make sureeveryone else is okay. And so I
would like to tip the conversational littlebit toward as we make these changes,
how that impacts our environments and ourrelationships because all of that pleasing that we
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do, if people pleasing is yourthing, yeah, is actually keeping If
air quotes the water calm right rightwhen you stop, then what because there
are levels to these changes that aren'tjust about you completely one hundred percent.
So to your point, yes,there are people who really will prefer the
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doormat version of you, right,And for that reason, sometimes when you
really are anchored into your self worth, or you do start exercising your voice,
you will learn very quickly who ischampioning your best life and your growth
and who is in it for them. Here's what I will say. When
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you have conditioned a way of beingwhere you're not vocal, and you're not
speaking up, you're not advocating foryour needs, it's very easy to fall
into a victim place. And ifonly my mom wasn't so overbearing, and
if only my boss wasn't such ajerk and had such a power trip like
we instead of going, well,what have I given voice to? Because
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most of the time it's easier forus to sit in our victimhood than it
is to actually say you know what. They probably have no idea how much
this micromanaging bothers me because I onlytell susan in accounting, I don't tell
my boss right. A lot oftimes we will speak up, we just
speak up to the wrong person.So you might have a massive issue with
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your partner and it's your mom whogets the airful. So based off of
what I have said or what Ihave done, what might that other person
interpret from me? So if youare a heavy people pleaser, it's likely
that other people think a Gina lovesdoing that, Amy loves doing that,
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she wants to take it on,she's controlling about that, she'd much prefer
to be involved, or another rationalthought is I'm sure if it was an
issue, she'd ask for help,or I'm sure if it was that big
of a deal she would have saidno. All people can go on is
what you are showing up at.So unless you are literally saying in a
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palatable way that somebody can hear,I'm not able to do that. I
quite literally am underwater and cannot takeon one more thing. I'm drowning.
You're not communicating in an effective wayif you're yelling and screaming, if you're
being passive aggressive, if you're justlisting out all the things going on in
your life, and you're not beingreally clear about what you are requesting or
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what you're saying no to, thenthat person is just going to be interpreting.
So my whole point in bringing thatup is a lot of the time,
the resentment that we're building towards somebodywho is quote overbearing or controlling is
likely established the boundaries we're not willingto establish or has been willing to be
vocal about their needs in ways thatwe're scared to do. So it's so
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much easier for us to label,oh, this person's toxic, this is
this, this is this, becausethen that means we don't have to do
a damn thing instead of really lookingand going I could understand why my partner
thinks that I love doing all ofthis stuff around the house because I am
so controlling and critical of them whenthey do anything right. So that becomes
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an element of Okay, if Ihaven't spoken up about this, I at
least need to give the people inmy life the opportunity to be what I
need. Have I given this personthe opportunity to be what I need?
It's a powerful question, and it'skind of scary too, right, because
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we have worn that cloak for solong as people pleasers. I don't tend
to be a people pleaser on thatlevel. You know. It's really interesting
when we think about these ideas aboutquestioning ourselves and taking responsibility for our part.
You know, because as a peoplepleaser, because people aren't using their
voice and they're not taking up space, right, they don't take up space
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in the world they're constantly filling theiractual necessary space with in their minds other
people's needs, other people's wants,keeping everybody happy. But because they're not
voicing, to your point, theycan become the victim. Their mindframe has
put them in a powerless place.And what I hear you saying is acknowledging
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the part that we play in ourown life and outcomes, whether or not
we officially chose to be a peoplepleaser. To your point, what we
learned that that was the best wayto exist and stay safe and out of
conflict. Nevertheless, I know youprobably agree with this. As we become
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adults, as we know better,as we learn things, it's good to
reflect on is this still serving me? It may have served me as a
six year old because I had nopower at six, I really didn't,
that's right, and maybe not evenat twelve or fifteen. But there is
a point where now I get tochoose do I continue these unhealthy habits,
Do I continue these mindsets and behaviors? Or am I really genuinely conflicted with
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what I really want and need andwhat I'm projecting to your point, because
I think it is true that wecondition people like we were conditioned at some
point, and then we picked thatsucker up and carried it right on into
adulthood and conditioned everyone else to seeus as that person. Right, And
I like that you talk about accountability, personal accountability for it. You may
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not have started it, but youhave the opportunity to finish that in a
healthy way. And I think there'sa bigger conversation to be had here too
around systems of a So the waythat I view this is like, of
course, as a woman, yeah, we're still working towards equal pay.
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We still have a very patriarchal societywhere you know, we write the man's
name first. We've got all theseways to delineate if a woman is married
or not, because your currency wasin your eligibility to be married, it
was not in your creativity, yourintellect, all of that. And we're
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still fighting against a lot of that. And then if you layer on other
marginalized identities, if you're in adisabled body, were we're not super kind
to people with disabilities in our culture. So we already are up against this
hierarchy where we go, Okay,if I become vocal, now you're you're
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just the angry bitchy woman, rightand or oh yes, you can protest
about that, but only if itlooks a specific way to us, not
like that, not like that.So we have to remember too that there's
stuff that's happening culturally or systemically,and I think that those need that needs
an element of recognition and movement.But then there's also what happens nuclearly for
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each person and individual. So forme, as a woman who is very
heteropassing because I'm married to a man, my life has a very different set
of privileges than somebody else who whomay not have those advantages. So for
that person to say you can justthink, think your way out of it,
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or just you know it, mindover matter, that is negating an
entire structure of our culture. That'ssetting them up to fail. So I
think we have to target it bothsystemically and personally. And I think things
like this, like having access topodcasts, having access to books and reading
materials so that people can learn howto be their own biggest advocate, those
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are incredibly important. So yes,when I say radical personal responsibility, of
course, at the end of theday, no matter what oppression is going
on, all I have is myown gumption and my own internal self worth.
But the way that oppression works isthe oppressed parties have to continue to
(29:22):
believe that they're not as good asthe oppressor. Age. For my audience,
age is an on topic conversation ofdoes your value diminish as you age?
And we've been told, yes,there's an erasure of older women.
Right. In fact, I recentlyhave been reading this book called In Defense
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of Witches, and it's not aboutwitchcraft or anything at all, but it's
about how women have been maligned throughthe centuries if they stepped out of line.
And her whole concept is, okay, think about whatever which you grew
up with, right, And myfirst thought was Wizard of Us And she
said, okay, whatever which yousaw depicted, let me guess she was
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single, she opted not to havechildren, she had a career other people
did not support, and her closestfriends were animals. And I'm like,
oh my gosh, that checks orlittle or funny little people. Right,
So of course they get depicted asbeing malicious and awful. But if we
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look back at that, most ofthe people who we've branded the witch,
the old hag, the whatever,is just a woman who was living life
on her terms and wasn't falling inline. So I think we have to
keep those things around us as well, like there are going to be constant
(30:52):
pulls towards how our culture works.And at the end of the day,
what I always come back to isis me believing in my worth or me
teaching other women and other individuals howto genuinely believe in their worth is the
biggest middle finger to oppression. Imean, it's the biggest anthem for equality
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is for all of us to genuinelybelieve in our intrinsic value. And for
some people that's supported culturally and forothers it's not. It's a harder fight.
But I think I would be remissif I didn't acknowledge that there's nuance
there and that it does warrant addressing. But I will say, from a
(31:36):
practical standpoint, if you're wondering,like, okay, where do I even
start here, the first thing Iwould do is ask yourself, who and
what do I chronically complain about thatI have not actually addressed the issue without
person, because, like I said, many of the times, if we're
mad, our best friend knows aboutit, but the person we're really upset
(31:59):
with ever knows, So start takinga little bit of an inventory of do
I come home and complain about myboss, let's say, every single day,
but I've never asked for a sitdown conversation with her. Would that
person have any idea that I'm thisupset, that it has this grave of
(32:20):
an impact on me. That's likelyyour ability to then give them the opportunity
to be what you need. Sothat's a real simple exercise that you can
just start looking at. Part ofit is also your emotions too, like
when am I frustrated? When amI overwhelmed? When am I really stressed
out? When am I angry?Usually that for very people pleasing tendency type
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of folks is because we've said yesto everything, We've taken on the responsibility
of everything, and that can leadto that emotional ramification. So we can
check in with just what do Icomplain about the most? And and am
I experiencing a lot of emotional discomfort? And that usually will clue us into
a boundary conversation to be had.Yeah, I think it's fascinating how our
(33:12):
belief systems also can play into Yeah, you know, how we perceive our
ability to have that voice. Yes, like I can. I cannot.
Right, if I believe that Idon't have enough value to advocate for myself,
then it's true because I will nottake the stance because I don't believe
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that I can. So I feellike there is a shift in how we
perceive our potential to have autonomy inour own lives and in our situations because
we may have learned that we quotedon't have value. But the reality is,
and I think you and I arecoming from maybe different foundational places,
(34:01):
but I believe that everyone is designedby God with a purpose and a personality
and something. There's a design there. You are who you are for a
purpose, and we're all like puzzlepieces fitting together. But the picture doesn't
ever quite come together when we arenot functioning in a healthy, proper way.
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And that's not a critical statement.That is an observation that I used
to be not healthy and not functioningin my best way, and I've seen
how healing and understanding myself and correctingthose things has definitely been a benefit,
not just to me, but tothe children that I raise, the marriage
(34:45):
that I have. And so Ifeel like there is while we are talking
about an individual thing people pleasing,taking that personal responsibility, and then looking
at this huge, greater cultural picture. I think somewhere in that in between
is the vision of if I wereliving into that purpose and design better,
if I could figure this piece outand be more healthy and speak my voice
(35:08):
to your point in a respectful,appropriate way, how much of a ripple
effect would that have, not justfor me right, but on the world
around me. And so I feellike the global gets a little overwhelming and
the full responsibility can be to yourpoint, people get a little vitriolic sometimes
(35:30):
because they get so you know,I have to fight by myself. But
I think there is this in betweenwhere this design, this purpose, this
who you are, this best versionof you, done gently and gracefully but
with intention. Yes, there's somefreedom and there's some beauty to that.
So I feel like we've talked aboutboth ends, but there's this middle bit
(35:51):
where those ripples from these decisions.We've had ripples from this decision, and
there will be ripples as we heal, but ultimately the healing ripples are going
to be more beneficial to the greaterperspective of our nuclear world. Would you
agree? I think it gets itgets tricky because with what you were starting
(36:15):
off talking about, like the cantversus I can those are likely beliefs that
we've been grandmothered into without consent.Yes, so there are a lot of
beliefs. So if we talk aboutjust what a belief is, it's not
necessarily fact. It's not necessarily true. Right. If I believe that soulmates
(36:39):
exist, that is one hundred percentmy responsibility to create that truth. Yeah,
right, it's not. It isnot necessarily a fact and a universal
truth if you will, that's right. And the same is true. So
a belief is a feeling of certainty, like I believe I could never or
(37:00):
say that, or I could neverspeak up about that, or I believe
that I am not enough or thatI am not valuable. None of those
things are fact. They're just afeeling of certainty, and that is malleable,
that is mobile. We can changethat. So I would start asking
yourself the beliefs that I have currently, whether they are about your own worthiness
(37:23):
or your ability to speak up,where did that belief come from? And
do you continue to consent to thatbelief. So to your point, I
grew up with messaging that I wasbroken, that I needed saving and that
I was not enough, And tome, that's very opposite then what feels
(37:45):
right to me, which is thatwe all have our own internal compass,
our own internal God, and ifwe stopped searching outside of ourselves for that,
we would we would find that wehave the messages and the answers with
out a lot of dogma and doctrine. But I do truly believe that everybody
(38:05):
needs to find that for themselves rightand needs to figure that out. What
feels right for me and where doI feel lad and where do I feel
guided? So I think one ofmy favorite things to talk about with the
I can't versus I can. Myhusband always says, throw it in the
trash. Can't. So this isanother little hack that you can try if
(38:28):
you find yourself caught up in abelief of I could never say that,
I could never speak up, oreven I have to. It's terms that
come out like an absolute I couldnever. There's no one else. It's
my responsibility. It's where it's realstamped as certain is to just question that
a little bit, and with can't, I reserve, can't for things that
(38:50):
are not humanly possible. I can'tgrow wings out of my back and start
flying around the neighborhood like I can'tdo that. But to say I can't,
I could never tell him that,or I can't even think about being
honest about that. That's not aboutan ability, that's about a willingness.
(39:14):
So when you hear yourself say Ican't, check in and say is it
I can't? Is it not humanlypossible? Or is it that I won't,
and then be clear about your choice. It's not that you have to
make a different choice. It's notthat you have to now start speaking up
or have a difficult conversation. Butlet's be honest about what you're choosing.
(39:35):
So instead of saying, oh,I could never tell him that or tell
her that, say I'm choosing notto. Yes, I'm choosing that fear
hurt is more intense for me rightnow than wanting to flex this muscle.
And that's okay. Like, youdon't have to be a hero at personal
development. It's not academia. Youdon't have to get an a all.
(39:57):
Everything is about learning and progress Andis there a new little aha moment or
inkling here that I can follow?So check yourself the next time you say
can't, and is it really Iwon't or I'm not willing? Yeah?
Yeah, that change in language isreally powerful. So if you had to
give people three anchor points in thetips strategies ideas that you want them to
(40:23):
take away from this conversation, whatwould those three things be? Amy?
Well, first off, to circleback to what we were talking about in
the beginning. When you find thatyou are compelled to smooth something over or
people please, or or even avoidsomeone being mad at you, that's another
(40:45):
perfect place that we people please,Oh I just don't want them to feel
something towards me. Asking yourself thequestion am I in danger? Or is
this just new? Because when youhad that visceral response that you were talking
about, you're like, oh mygosh, this is so dangerous when we
go through that, that will happenevery time something is new and we've never
(41:08):
done it before. Because the braingoes, are you sure it's safe to
speak up? Are you sure it'ssafe to say that you like yourself?
Are you sure you want to believeyou're enough? No? No, no,
we don't know that we know howto be mean to ourselves and be
wait what So sometimes it's just thatsomething's new, You're going into an interview
that's brand new, You've never donethat before. I met with that particular
(41:30):
person that will send in the fearresponse, which can be people pleasing that
fawn response. So asking yourself,am I in danger? Or is this
just new? Is one great inquiry. Another question that you can kind of
ponder is have I given this personthe opportunity to be what I need?
(41:55):
And your entry point with this isusually your complaints, It's usually your upset.
It's usually the things that you wantto label them a narcissist or they're
toxic, or they're this, andthey're that. They might be I don't
know, but very seldomly do Isee situations where it's one hundred percent one
person's fault. So asking yourself,have I given this other person the opportunity
(42:20):
to be what I need? HaveI been really clear explicit specific, so
that they know like oh yes orno, Amy would not want that.
And then if you're curious about,like I don't even know where I might
need to start to start with ajust an inventory about what you complain about.
(42:43):
That's one of the easiest entry points. Just am I constantly getting in
a conversation with my best friend aboutstuff that my mom does and that I've
just never brought up, Like,just start heightening the awareness. I always
say awareness is the win, becausewe cannot make any type of change,
habitual or behavioral or otherwise without havingsome sort of an awareness. So we
(43:05):
need to know where those pockets ofopportunity are. And then, for a
little bonus, I would just circleback to the cant versus can and check
in with yourself the next time yousay I can't, Is that really true?
Is it not humanly possible? Orare you not willing? Thank you
so much? Amy? How dopeople find you and what you do?
(43:25):
So my corner of the internet isover at Amy Greensmith dot com. All
of those all of those names arespelled the very basic way, nothing exciting,
no tricks, no tricks, andlike any self respecting gen x or,
I hang out the most on Instagramand you can find me pretty much
(43:47):
on install or any other social platformunder the handle hey Amy Greensmith, and
over on my website. I've gotfree workbooks and I've been doing a podcast
for oh my gosh, it's tenand a half years, so I've got
a back catalog of like five hundredepisodes some free hypnosis tracks for you.
So yeah, come hang out,get to know me, and yeah,
(44:12):
I'd be really incredibly honored. Awesome, Amy. I want to thank you
so much for being on my showtoday and for sharing your wisdom and your
insight into this area of people pleasing, which I think is pretty prevalent,
and so we could probably all takesome time and take the advice that you've
shared today and improve our ability tocommunicate clearly what our needs are and have
(44:37):
healthier relationships with ourselves and others.So thank you so much for bringing that
to the table today. Oh.Absolutely, And I always appreciate having conversations
with folks who have different come froms, in different belief systems and stuff.
And I think there's a nice biglie out there that we can't communicate kindly
and respectfully with one another. Sothank you for just modeling that so beautifully.
(45:00):
Oh my pleasure. You know,it's this human experience that we're having
is complicated enough, right, youknow, and just finding those points of
grace with other people is it's areal blessing. So thank you for being
there with me today. Oh I'vehad a blast Gina, Thank you awesome
(45:21):
friends. Today we've been talking aboutpeople pleasing and if you want to share
this re listen to it, youknow, send it off to a friend,
subscribe, Head on over to wwwdot Feminine roadmap dot com. Forward
Slash Episode three point fifty. Ifyou are on YouTube, just look down
below. The links will be rightthere, or you can go to my
(45:42):
website and get them. This conversation, friends, is a conversation. It's
an ongoing dialogue around how we operatein the world, not in a critical
way, but back to the ideaof grace and gentleness, understanding who we
are, are worth and our valueas well as to Amy's point, we
have different points of view, wehave different faith beliefs, but we can
(46:02):
approach each other and have a conversation. So even in the people pleasing thing,
trusting that another person can have graceand gentleness as well, and you
can have a point of conversation onany topic that can be healthy and forward
moving. So I think sometimes wedon't even realize maybe these small areas where
(46:22):
we silence ourselves, or maybe weeven expect silence from other people because we
are uncomfortable this conversation. We barelyscratch the service, but please take the
time to tap into the resources thatyou need. Use these strategies that Amy
shared, those last three points,and see if there's not some way that
you can become a healthier, better, more communicative, gracious version of yourself,
(46:49):
not for other people, but foryourself. Isn't that something to think
about. You can do better foryourself. You don't have to do it
for other people, although it willmake a difference in your world as you
grow and improve. Thank you forjoining us today, and I'm really grateful
for the time that you sat andspent with us. I asked that you
would just remember to share this informationbecause it's powerful. I look forward to
(47:12):
sharing more interesting and impactful people strategiesand conversations with you in the weeks to
come. Take care of my friends. Bye bye,
Hi, Hi'm Jennifer. Are welcometo the Feminine Roadmap Podcast, a global
community of women in midlife. Wegather here weekly over a cup of something
wonderful for real talk, life changingstrategies and a big dose of sisterhood.
Now, please sit back and enjoy. Hello, Feminine Roadmappers. Welcome back
(00:27):
to Feminine Roadmap Podcast, the podcastthat helps you navigate the challenges and the
changes of midlife. If you findus on YouTube today, don't forget to
ring that bell so that you don'tmiss any more of these amazing conversations.
If you happen to be on apodcast platform, please subscribe, rate,
and share this podcast so that wecan share this amazing content with as many
(00:49):
women as we can. Today,friends, we're going to be talking about
people pleasing. You know, whatis the origin of people pleasing? Why,
why do we tend to people please? And when is it a good
idea to use the skill of peoplepleasing? And to have this conversation with
me today is Amy green Smith.She's a life coach, a hypnotherapist,
(01:11):
and a communication expert. Amy,thank you so much for being on the
show today. Hi, Gina,I'm so excited to chat with you.
So I have to let the audiencein on our history. So Amy and
I both worked for a major cosmeticcompany and she was my trainer, and
I mean like way way way back, So we have this like makeup and
(01:33):
other lifetime connection. And I wasso excited because she went on and did
a podcast, wrote a book.I'm doing a podcast. We've brought ourselves
together today for a reunion to talkabout this idea of people pleasing, and
I would love to have you sharea little bit about yourself and a little
bit about why this message woh.So, I think for many of us
(01:56):
who are in the personal development fear, we tend to have something that we
surmounted ourselves in order to then givecredence to sharing that with other people.
In my situation is very similar.So yes, as you mentioned, we
probably were connected about twenty years agosomething like it. It's probably approaching that,
(02:19):
yes, and which is wild.So it's very cool to see you
in this element. So thank youfor having me. So my story around
people pleasing and kind of finding myvoice, which I look at those things
as being typically antithetical, right,Like there's the people pleasing behavior of making
sure that everyone else is okay,And then there's the ability to actually speak
(02:44):
up and articulate what your wants,needs and opinions in a way that can
be heard. And I think forme this really surfaced early on. For
a bit of context, I grewup in a very, very extremely conservative,
born again Christian family and my fatherhad a master's in divinity and a
(03:05):
doctorate in ministry, so he wasdefinitely not messing around. And I was,
by all accounts the quote good kid. I was the eldest, and
I put myself through college, gotmarried young, moved out of the house,
started working when I was fourteen.And my brothers did not really follow
that path. They had trouble withthe law, did some jail time,
(03:25):
didn't go to school, that sortof thing, and that kind of comes
into play a little bit later.So everything kind of comes to a head
in seven when my father passes away, and having a makeup background, I
felt very convicted that I was goingto do make up for his viewing.
So we've reached the dead dad makeupportion of the chat today. But I
(03:51):
felt like it would be kind ofa jerk move to be have that skill
set and then be like, oh, Dad, go get your own makeup
artist for the re viewing. SoI felt extremely convicted that, you know,
I wanted to do the makeup forhis viewing, and I also wanted
to speak at the service. Andup until that time, and you might
remember this version of me, upuntil that time, I really shielded my
(04:16):
family from who I truly was thatI identify as queer, that I am
no longer subscribed to the faith thatI was raised in and have really changed
in so many ways. And sowhen my husband and I would go visit
my parents, I would kind ofsay, Okay, no cussing, no
(04:38):
drinking, no talking about any liberalagenda, no gay rights, no Howard
Stern, no South Park like justand so I was really kind of presenting
this facade and this veneer, andso it kind of came to head the
day of his service. I feellike I'm winning at daughter because I'm doing
(04:59):
dead dad makeup, and then I'mgetting on this platform speaking to hundreds of
people, all who carry a verydifferent ideology than myself. Get back home
to my mom's house, and shefinds it the most opportune time to say,
it feels as though your father andI have failed as parents because the
three of you are no longer subscribingto the faith traditions that you were raised
(05:24):
with. So it didn't matter thatI was this incredible human. It didn't
matter that I had stayed out ofjail and actually had gotten a degree and
made a lot, made something ofmyself. Because I didn't subscribe to the
faith traditions, I was grouped intothis sort of disappointment and I could only
(05:46):
muster to say to her, uh, you probably shouldn't say that to a
child, and she said, well, that's just how I feel. And
I realized in that moment that thereis a very there's oftentimes a crucial pivotal
point when you have to decide betweenmaking everyone else happy and making you happy.
(06:10):
And I don't think that speaking upfor yourself or giving voice to things
is always an ultimatum. In fact, I think it's frequently not an ultimatum.
But I realized in that moment Icould keep shape shifting, I could
keep contorting and twisting to be whatshe wanted. But if push came to
shove and I needed to decide betweenmaking her happy and making me happy,
I was going to choose me.And I'll tell you what the trajectory after
(06:35):
that was incredibly combative, adversarial.Like once I sort of decided I was
not gonna be shrouded in this veneeranymore, it was like I wanted to
fight about absolutely everything we were polarizedon, and I sort of was a
bat out of hell. And itwasn't until many many years later, of
(06:58):
realizing that I had to apologize formy delivery of how I was presenting stuff
to my mom, that I realized, oh, you can actually have conversations
about incredibly polarizing belief systems. Youcan ask adult children to children to move
out of the house, you canask for a divorce, you can sever
(07:19):
a business alliance, and you cando all of those things with the utmost
grace and kindness. And that reallybecame sort of the impetus behind the work
that I do now. So it'skind of twofold. It's this internal element
of genuinely believing that you matter.It's your worthiness, it's believing that my
(07:41):
wants, needs and opinions are valid, believing in your own enoughness, and
then the external element of okay,if that's how I reside, if that's
the place that I embody, thenhow do I communicate that with the outside
world. How do I deal withoverbearing in laws who maybe have different beliefs
than I do, or who wantto feed my children things I don't want
them to eat, Or how doI deal in the workplace with somebody who
(08:05):
says something that's really offensive to mewithout quote opening up a can of worms.
And so the logistics and the semanticsof difficult conversations really became my wheelhouse.
But again, antithetical to that isour pull to people please, And
I started really digging into that tounderstand sort of the human behavior behind it.
(08:26):
But that story that very real.Hiding and acquiescing to others around me
was a part of my process andeven being able to teach it. Now,
let's talk a little bit about howpeople like. What are the conditions
(08:46):
that often surround people pleasers like what? Obviously I think it's often a personality
type. You know, there arecertain people who are more inclined to people
please than others. So let's talka little bit about what you've learned around
what are kind of the you mightbe a people pleaser if you know,
(09:09):
like, what causes that? Andwhat are the identifiers of a typical people
pleaser. Well, I'm really gladyou brought that up, Gina, because
there are oftentimes when we say theword people pleaser or that sort of moniker,
we get a very specific vision.We think of somebody who maybe is
(09:31):
really meek and mild, maybe theirposture is a little bit more concave or
repressed. We think of them beingvery soft spoken, not really flexing an
opinion very much. And I reallythink that's fairly myopic. I think being
a people pleaser, at least inmy approximation, is more that we are
(09:54):
sacrificing something of self in order tomake sure that other people are happy,
caretaking for other people's emotions. So, for example, if you are super
concerned about what you look like whenyou're running errands because you might run into
someone that's a little bit people pleasserie, Right, it's like, ugh,
(10:16):
I have to give myself all thisextra work to get dulled up when
there's a cost, like I'd ratherbe spending my time doing something else,
but I'm doing it to placate truly, how women are supposed to be perceived
in our culture, right, Sowe have to look at it through a
much more nuanced and a larger lens, I think, But as far as
(10:41):
like where it comes from, Ithink it's really helpful to understand that people
pleasing is rooted in our fear response. So we if we've heard of fight,
flight, freeze fawn, right,fawn is a little bit newer on
the platform here, but fan isessentially if we're talking about it in primitive
terms, if you are about tobe attacked, let's stay by a mountain
(11:05):
lion. We know what fight,freeze, fawn or flea looks like.
But fawning would be to say,here, kitty, kitty, here's some
food. Go over there. Youknow you would be Essentially, fawning is
either placating or acquiescing to an aggressoror a captor in order to stay safe.
So our primitive ancestors had to belongto a group in order to stay
(11:33):
safe. You didn't have tribes ofone. You had to be together in
order to survive. So that isalso how we've gotten If you look at
Maslow's hierarchy of needs, one ofour primitive human needs is for belonging.
That comes from our survival. Weneeded to be connected to other people to
continue to grow and live. SoI think recognizing that a majority of time
(12:00):
we down people pleasing as a wayto protect ourselves. For many people,
that starts in childhood. Maybe youhad an abusive caregiver or an alcoholic parent
or something like that, where yourealized that being quiet, sliding under their
(12:20):
radar, walking on those eggshells keptyou safe. Well, that starts to
embed into the subconscious mind that thisbehavior people pleasing now has a positive association
in your brain. So then whenyou go into academia and you're dealing with
colleagues, or you're dealing with otherstudents, or you're dealing with the workplace,
(12:43):
or you're dealing with dating, youhave a positive association with pleasing those
other people because that's what has registeredis safe to you your entire life.
So I think that piece we needto understand. We don't just develop these
habits for the hell of it.We do it because there's a message internally
(13:03):
for us that this is how youstay safe. I was just listening to
it was like a maybe a minuteand a half of this guy named John
Deloney and he was talking to agal on his show, and they took
a SoundBite of it, and itwas talking about you know, she'd been
rejected by her father. She andI had a very similar story. So
(13:26):
I was interested in what he hadto say. And at the very end
of the SoundBite, this is whatI want to get to he talked about,
that's your nervous system, that's yourbody like it sets my husband and
I talked to him about this ishis family, his mom. I caregive
(13:48):
she passed, but it triggered.It was the longest trigger that I had
experienced with another person. And Irealized that our nervous systems have set points,
right yes, and those fears,those anxieties, those whatever, it's
like our body starts at that level. And for someone whose set point is
(14:11):
very high towards stress, anxiety,fear, they're already on the threshold before
anything's really happened. Does that makesense? So people plasers are literally standing
on the doorstep because their set pointis right there. They don't even understand
themselves. Wouldn't you agree, there'sthis it's so automatic you don't even know.
Your body tells you, oh no, you're not safe, and you're
(14:37):
and then you automatically do the behavior. And that's where we see hyper like
overfunctioning or hyper vigilance, and itis. And this is also why we're
seeing extreme levels of audioimmune issues andburnout and overwhelm, because what you're talking
about is residing in a sympathetic nervoussystem majority of the time. So our
(15:01):
sympathetic nervous system is exactly fight flightfreeze font it's warding off some sort of
impending threat. But now it's notlike we just go hunt for food and
then we get to come back toour safe camp and chill out. Now
we've got, oh my gosh,this bill I'm going to be paid,
and we're on a twenty twenty fourhour news cycle about all this stuff that's
(15:24):
happening in the world that is incrediblyscary and egregious. And then oh my
gosh, I forgot to bake cupcakesfor my kid's class, and oh my
gosh, I have to sign thiscontract before and so what all of those
are are little intense pieces of threatthat send in our sympathetic nervous system,
so we don't have time to comedown off of that and go into paris
(15:48):
sympathetic, which is commonly called tendand befriend or rest and digest, or
you know some other fun basically it'sthe chill button. Yeah, that's right,
that's right. So also what you'respeaking to is how new trauma will
kick up old trauma. So ifyou have something new that shows up that
(16:08):
is anything like something you experienced withan ex or with a parent or caregiver,
your body goes we remember this,we remember this, and it was
not good send in whatever defenses youhave. And so sometimes it's people pleasing,
Sometimes it is fighting, it's beinga little bit more vitriolic. Sometimes
it's running away. Sometimes it's completenumbing out and freezing or procrastinating. So
(16:36):
I think we have to recognize thatbeating ourselves up for whatever behavior we've embodied
is not really helpful. It's morehelpful to ask yourself, Okay, when
I am in this place where I'mso concerned about whatever everybody else is thinking,
am I doing that from self preservation? Or am I doing that from
(16:57):
a lack of self worth? Yeah? So what I mean by that is
if you are a part of anymarginalized identity in a larger body and disabled
body, a queer body, afemale body like black and brown body,
if you're residing in any of thoseintersections, that means that there are likely
(17:18):
situations where you may have to placatean alternative person in order for you to
stay safe. So there are timeswhen that is completely permissible. Abuse of
relationships are a perfect example of that. That's not the time for you to
beat yourself up about your communication skills, that's time for you to seek safety.
(17:41):
Yes, that nuance is incredibly important. However, I would say that
a majority of the time we arefeeling a sense of threat that actually is
self inflicted. So that is whenyou are not doing something based off of
self, you're doing it based offof then I must be valuable, or
(18:03):
then I might be worthy, ormaybe I'll be enough if this person loves
me, if my boss accepts me, if I get this job. Those
are the situations where we're equating pleasingother people with our worth, not with
our self preservation. So that's thekey distinct question you have to ask yourself
(18:23):
as I'm being pulled to people pleasehere, is that because of self preservation?
Am I actually in danger? Oris this just new? Because like
you said about your example of gettingtriggered, it hits you. It's a
gut response, it's intuitive, andyou're like, what am I I don't
(18:44):
know what to do with myself,So we have to train that to respond
differently, otherwise it's going to keepgoing on that cycle. But we do
have neuroplasticity of the brain. Weare able to create neuropathways, and which
essentially means you absolutely can teach anold dog new tricks. It doesn't matter
how far down the people pleasing pathyou've gone. You can absolutely start discerning
(19:07):
when it's in service of view andwhen it's not. You know, the
brain science, the neuroplasticity. That'sa fascinating thing because what we're talking about
is also neuroplasticity that was ingrained inour brain. Right. It's basically us
becoming aware of these patterns and Ifor me, one of the things is
(19:32):
what are you feeling in your bodyand where you know? Because usually if
I'm when I was working through myown trauma, I had very specific trigger
points, and I began to recognize, oh, before my brain, let's
say, recognize, before I becameaware that a trigger was happening, my
body knew yes, I, andso I began to learn that the feeling
(20:00):
within nanoseconds, the emotion was gonnajust come blowing through, do you know
what I mean? And so Ithink that when we see people pleasing,
it seems so banal, doesn't it. It's you know, it's not like
the kind of trauma that maybe thatI experienced where it's like I really wasn't
safe. Yes, and so anythinganyone that comes near that I might instant
(20:23):
no, you know. But it'sto your point, that self worth piece,
that piece of feeling like I onlyhave value if right, And I
think that's a good thing to becomeaware of. Because other people are very
comfortable with our habits. It servesthese people for us to be the one
(20:51):
who appeases, pleases, make sureeveryone else is okay. And so I
would like to tip the conversational littlebit toward as we make these changes,
how that impacts our environments and ourrelationships because all of that pleasing that we
(21:11):
do, if people pleasing is yourthing, yeah, is actually keeping If
air quotes the water calm right rightwhen you stop, then what because there
are levels to these changes that aren'tjust about you completely one hundred percent.
So to your point, yes,there are people who really will prefer the
(21:34):
doormat version of you, right,And for that reason, sometimes when you
really are anchored into your self worth, or you do start exercising your voice,
you will learn very quickly who ischampioning your best life and your growth
and who is in it for them. Here's what I will say. When
(21:55):
you have conditioned a way of beingwhere you're not vocal, and you're not
speaking up, you're not advocating foryour needs, it's very easy to fall
into a victim place. And ifonly my mom wasn't so overbearing, and
if only my boss wasn't such ajerk and had such a power trip like
we instead of going, well,what have I given voice to? Because
(22:15):
most of the time it's easier forus to sit in our victimhood than it
is to actually say you know what. They probably have no idea how much
this micromanaging bothers me because I onlytell susan in accounting, I don't tell
my boss right. A lot oftimes we will speak up, we just
speak up to the wrong person.So you might have a massive issue with
(22:36):
your partner and it's your mom whogets the airful. So based off of
what I have said or what Ihave done, what might that other person
interpret from me? So if youare a heavy people pleaser, it's likely
that other people think a Gina lovesdoing that, Amy loves doing that,
(22:59):
she wants to take it on,she's controlling about that, she'd much prefer
to be involved, or another rationalthought is I'm sure if it was an
issue, she'd ask for help,or I'm sure if it was that big
of a deal she would have saidno. All people can go on is
what you are showing up at.So unless you are literally saying in a
(23:21):
palatable way that somebody can hear,I'm not able to do that. I
quite literally am underwater and cannot takeon one more thing. I'm drowning.
You're not communicating in an effective wayif you're yelling and screaming, if you're
being passive aggressive, if you're justlisting out all the things going on in
your life, and you're not beingreally clear about what you are requesting or
(23:44):
what you're saying no to, thenthat person is just going to be interpreting.
So my whole point in bringing thatup is a lot of the time,
the resentment that we're building towards somebodywho is quote overbearing or controlling is
likely established the boundaries we're not willingto establish or has been willing to be
vocal about their needs in ways thatwe're scared to do. So it's so
(24:07):
much easier for us to label,oh, this person's toxic, this is
this, this is this, becausethen that means we don't have to do
a damn thing instead of really lookingand going I could understand why my partner
thinks that I love doing all ofthis stuff around the house because I am
so controlling and critical of them whenthey do anything right. So that becomes
(24:30):
an element of Okay, if Ihaven't spoken up about this, I at
least need to give the people inmy life the opportunity to be what I
need. Have I given this personthe opportunity to be what I need?
It's a powerful question, and it'skind of scary too, right, because
(24:51):
we have worn that cloak for solong as people pleasers. I don't tend
to be a people pleaser on thatlevel. You know. It's really interesting
when we think about these ideas aboutquestioning ourselves and taking responsibility for our part.
You know, because as a peoplepleaser, because people aren't using their
voice and they're not taking up space, right, they don't take up space
(25:11):
in the world they're constantly filling theiractual necessary space with in their minds other
people's needs, other people's wants,keeping everybody happy. But because they're not
voicing, to your point, theycan become the victim. Their mindframe has
put them in a powerless place.And what I hear you saying is acknowledging
(25:37):
the part that we play in ourown life and outcomes, whether or not
we officially chose to be a peoplepleaser. To your point, what we
learned that that was the best wayto exist and stay safe and out of
conflict. Nevertheless, I know youprobably agree with this. As we become
(25:59):
adults, as we know better,as we learn things, it's good to
reflect on is this still serving me? It may have served me as a
six year old because I had nopower at six, I really didn't,
that's right, and maybe not evenat twelve or fifteen. But there is
a point where now I get tochoose do I continue these unhealthy habits,
Do I continue these mindsets and behaviors? Or am I really genuinely conflicted with
(26:26):
what I really want and need andwhat I'm projecting to your point, because
I think it is true that wecondition people like we were conditioned at some
point, and then we picked thatsucker up and carried it right on into
adulthood and conditioned everyone else to seeus as that person. Right, And
I like that you talk about accountability, personal accountability for it. You may
(26:48):
not have started it, but youhave the opportunity to finish that in a
healthy way. And I think there'sa bigger conversation to be had here too
around systems of a So the waythat I view this is like, of
course, as a woman, yeah, we're still working towards equal pay.
(27:08):
We still have a very patriarchal societywhere you know, we write the man's
name first. We've got all theseways to delineate if a woman is married
or not, because your currency wasin your eligibility to be married, it
was not in your creativity, yourintellect, all of that. And we're
(27:30):
still fighting against a lot of that. And then if you layer on other
marginalized identities, if you're in adisabled body, were we're not super kind
to people with disabilities in our culture. So we already are up against this
hierarchy where we go, Okay,if I become vocal, now you're you're
(27:52):
just the angry bitchy woman, rightand or oh yes, you can protest
about that, but only if itlooks a specific way to us, not
like that, not like that.So we have to remember too that there's
stuff that's happening culturally or systemically,and I think that those need that needs
an element of recognition and movement.But then there's also what happens nuclearly for
(28:17):
each person and individual. So forme, as a woman who is very
heteropassing because I'm married to a man, my life has a very different set
of privileges than somebody else who whomay not have those advantages. So for
that person to say you can justthink, think your way out of it,
(28:37):
or just you know it, mindover matter, that is negating an
entire structure of our culture. That'ssetting them up to fail. So I
think we have to target it bothsystemically and personally. And I think things
like this, like having access topodcasts, having access to books and reading
materials so that people can learn howto be their own biggest advocate, those
(29:02):
are incredibly important. So yes,when I say radical personal responsibility, of
course, at the end of theday, no matter what oppression is going
on, all I have is myown gumption and my own internal self worth.
But the way that oppression works isthe oppressed parties have to continue to
(29:22):
believe that they're not as good asthe oppressor. Age. For my audience,
age is an on topic conversation ofdoes your value diminish as you age?
And we've been told, yes,there's an erasure of older women.
Right. In fact, I recentlyhave been reading this book called In Defense
(29:45):
of Witches, and it's not aboutwitchcraft or anything at all, but it's
about how women have been maligned throughthe centuries if they stepped out of line.
And her whole concept is, okay, think about whatever which you grew
up with, right, And myfirst thought was Wizard of Us And she
said, okay, whatever which yousaw depicted, let me guess she was
(30:08):
single, she opted not to havechildren, she had a career other people
did not support, and her closestfriends were animals. And I'm like,
oh my gosh, that checks orlittle or funny little people. Right,
So of course they get depicted asbeing malicious and awful. But if we
(30:30):
look back at that, most ofthe people who we've branded the witch,
the old hag, the whatever,is just a woman who was living life
on her terms and wasn't falling inline. So I think we have to
keep those things around us as well, like there are going to be constant
(30:52):
pulls towards how our culture works.And at the end of the day,
what I always come back to isis me believing in my worth or me
teaching other women and other individuals howto genuinely believe in their worth is the
biggest middle finger to oppression. Imean, it's the biggest anthem for equality
(31:15):
is for all of us to genuinelybelieve in our intrinsic value. And for
some people that's supported culturally and forothers it's not. It's a harder fight.
But I think I would be remissif I didn't acknowledge that there's nuance
there and that it does warrant addressing. But I will say, from a
(31:36):
practical standpoint, if you're wondering,like, okay, where do I even
start here, the first thing Iwould do is ask yourself, who and
what do I chronically complain about thatI have not actually addressed the issue without
person, because, like I said, many of the times, if we're
mad, our best friend knows aboutit, but the person we're really upset
(31:59):
with ever knows, So start takinga little bit of an inventory of do
I come home and complain about myboss, let's say, every single day,
but I've never asked for a sitdown conversation with her. Would that
person have any idea that I'm thisupset, that it has this grave of
(32:20):
an impact on me. That's likelyyour ability to then give them the opportunity
to be what you need. Sothat's a real simple exercise that you can
just start looking at. Part ofit is also your emotions too, like
when am I frustrated? When amI overwhelmed? When am I really stressed
out? When am I angry?Usually that for very people pleasing tendency type
(32:44):
of folks is because we've said yesto everything, We've taken on the responsibility
of everything, and that can leadto that emotional ramification. So we can
check in with just what do Icomplain about the most? And and am
I experiencing a lot of emotional discomfort? And that usually will clue us into
a boundary conversation to be had.Yeah, I think it's fascinating how our
(33:12):
belief systems also can play into Yeah, you know, how we perceive our
ability to have that voice. Yes, like I can. I cannot.
Right, if I believe that Idon't have enough value to advocate for myself,
then it's true because I will nottake the stance because I don't believe
(33:38):
that I can. So I feellike there is a shift in how we
perceive our potential to have autonomy inour own lives and in our situations because
we may have learned that we quotedon't have value. But the reality is,
and I think you and I arecoming from maybe different foundational places,
(34:01):
but I believe that everyone is designedby God with a purpose and a personality
and something. There's a design there. You are who you are for a
purpose, and we're all like puzzlepieces fitting together. But the picture doesn't
ever quite come together when we arenot functioning in a healthy, proper way.
(34:22):
And that's not a critical statement.That is an observation that I used
to be not healthy and not functioningin my best way, and I've seen
how healing and understanding myself and correctingthose things has definitely been a benefit,
not just to me, but tothe children that I raise, the marriage
(34:45):
that I have. And so Ifeel like there is while we are talking
about an individual thing people pleasing,taking that personal responsibility, and then looking
at this huge, greater cultural picture. I think somewhere in that in between
is the vision of if I wereliving into that purpose and design better,
if I could figure this piece outand be more healthy and speak my voice
(35:08):
to your point in a respectful,appropriate way, how much of a ripple
effect would that have, not justfor me right, but on the world
around me. And so I feellike the global gets a little overwhelming and
the full responsibility can be to yourpoint, people get a little vitriolic sometimes
(35:30):
because they get so you know,I have to fight by myself. But
I think there is this in betweenwhere this design, this purpose, this
who you are, this best versionof you, done gently and gracefully but
with intention. Yes, there's somefreedom and there's some beauty to that.
So I feel like we've talked aboutboth ends, but there's this middle bit
(35:51):
where those ripples from these decisions.We've had ripples from this decision, and
there will be ripples as we heal, but ultimately the healing ripples are going
to be more beneficial to the greaterperspective of our nuclear world. Would you
agree? I think it gets itgets tricky because with what you were starting
(36:15):
off talking about, like the cantversus I can those are likely beliefs that
we've been grandmothered into without consent.Yes, so there are a lot of
beliefs. So if we talk aboutjust what a belief is, it's not
necessarily fact. It's not necessarily true. Right. If I believe that soulmates
(36:39):
exist, that is one hundred percentmy responsibility to create that truth. Yeah,
right, it's not. It isnot necessarily a fact and a universal
truth if you will, that's right. And the same is true. So
a belief is a feeling of certainty, like I believe I could never or
(37:00):
say that, or I could neverspeak up about that, or I believe
that I am not enough or thatI am not valuable. None of those
things are fact. They're just afeeling of certainty, and that is malleable,
that is mobile. We can changethat. So I would start asking
yourself the beliefs that I have currently, whether they are about your own worthiness
(37:23):
or your ability to speak up,where did that belief come from? And
do you continue to consent to thatbelief. So to your point, I
grew up with messaging that I wasbroken, that I needed saving and that
I was not enough, And tome, that's very opposite then what feels
(37:45):
right to me, which is thatwe all have our own internal compass,
our own internal God, and ifwe stopped searching outside of ourselves for that,
we would we would find that wehave the messages and the answers with
out a lot of dogma and doctrine. But I do truly believe that everybody
(38:05):
needs to find that for themselves rightand needs to figure that out. What
feels right for me and where doI feel lad and where do I feel
guided? So I think one ofmy favorite things to talk about with the
I can't versus I can. Myhusband always says, throw it in the
trash. Can't. So this isanother little hack that you can try if
(38:28):
you find yourself caught up in abelief of I could never say that,
I could never speak up, oreven I have to. It's terms that
come out like an absolute I couldnever. There's no one else. It's
my responsibility. It's where it's realstamped as certain is to just question that
a little bit, and with can't, I reserve, can't for things that
(38:50):
are not humanly possible. I can'tgrow wings out of my back and start
flying around the neighborhood like I can'tdo that. But to say I can't,
I could never tell him that,or I can't even think about being
honest about that. That's not aboutan ability, that's about a willingness.
(39:14):
So when you hear yourself say Ican't, check in and say is it
I can't? Is it not humanlypossible? Or is it that I won't,
and then be clear about your choice. It's not that you have to
make a different choice. It's notthat you have to now start speaking up
or have a difficult conversation. Butlet's be honest about what you're choosing.
(39:35):
So instead of saying, oh,I could never tell him that or tell
her that, say I'm choosing notto. Yes, I'm choosing that fear
hurt is more intense for me rightnow than wanting to flex this muscle.
And that's okay. Like, youdon't have to be a hero at personal
development. It's not academia. Youdon't have to get an a all.
(39:57):
Everything is about learning and progress Andis there a new little aha moment or
inkling here that I can follow?So check yourself the next time you say
can't, and is it really Iwon't or I'm not willing? Yeah?
Yeah, that change in language isreally powerful. So if you had to
give people three anchor points in thetips strategies ideas that you want them to
(40:23):
take away from this conversation, whatwould those three things be? Amy?
Well, first off, to circleback to what we were talking about in
the beginning. When you find thatyou are compelled to smooth something over or
people please, or or even avoidsomeone being mad at you, that's another
(40:45):
perfect place that we people please,Oh I just don't want them to feel
something towards me. Asking yourself thequestion am I in danger? Or is
this just new? Because when youhad that visceral response that you were talking
about, you're like, oh mygosh, this is so dangerous when we
go through that, that will happenevery time something is new and we've never
(41:08):
done it before. Because the braingoes, are you sure it's safe to
speak up? Are you sure it'ssafe to say that you like yourself?
Are you sure you want to believeyou're enough? No? No, no,
we don't know that we know howto be mean to ourselves and be
wait what So sometimes it's just thatsomething's new, You're going into an interview
that's brand new, You've never donethat before. I met with that particular
(41:30):
person that will send in the fearresponse, which can be people pleasing that
fawn response. So asking yourself,am I in danger? Or is this
just new? Is one great inquiry. Another question that you can kind of
ponder is have I given this personthe opportunity to be what I need?
(41:55):
And your entry point with this isusually your complaints, It's usually your upset.
It's usually the things that you wantto label them a narcissist or they're
toxic, or they're this, andthey're that. They might be I don't
know, but very seldomly do Isee situations where it's one hundred percent one
person's fault. So asking yourself,have I given this other person the opportunity
(42:20):
to be what I need? HaveI been really clear explicit specific, so
that they know like oh yes orno, Amy would not want that.
And then if you're curious about,like I don't even know where I might
need to start to start with ajust an inventory about what you complain about.
(42:43):
That's one of the easiest entry points. Just am I constantly getting in
a conversation with my best friend aboutstuff that my mom does and that I've
just never brought up, Like,just start heightening the awareness. I always
say awareness is the win, becausewe cannot make any type of change,
habitual or behavioral or otherwise without havingsome sort of an awareness. So we
(43:05):
need to know where those pockets ofopportunity are. And then, for a
little bonus, I would just circleback to the cant versus can and check
in with yourself the next time yousay I can't, Is that really true?
Is it not humanly possible? Orare you not willing? Thank you
so much? Amy? How dopeople find you and what you do?
(43:25):
So my corner of the internet isover at Amy Greensmith dot com. All
of those all of those names arespelled the very basic way, nothing exciting,
no tricks, no tricks, andlike any self respecting gen x or,
I hang out the most on Instagramand you can find me pretty much
(43:47):
on install or any other social platformunder the handle hey Amy Greensmith, and
over on my website. I've gotfree workbooks and I've been doing a podcast
for oh my gosh, it's tenand a half years, so I've got
a back catalog of like five hundredepisodes some free hypnosis tracks for you.
So yeah, come hang out,get to know me, and yeah,
(44:12):
I'd be really incredibly honored. Awesome, Amy. I want to thank you
so much for being on my showtoday and for sharing your wisdom and your
insight into this area of people pleasing, which I think is pretty prevalent,
and so we could probably all takesome time and take the advice that you've
shared today and improve our ability tocommunicate clearly what our needs are and have
(44:37):
healthier relationships with ourselves and others.So thank you so much for bringing that
to the table today. Oh.Absolutely, And I always appreciate having conversations
with folks who have different come froms, in different belief systems and stuff.
And I think there's a nice biglie out there that we can't communicate kindly
and respectfully with one another. Sothank you for just modeling that so beautifully.
(45:00):
Oh my pleasure. You know,it's this human experience that we're having
is complicated enough, right, youknow, and just finding those points of
grace with other people is it's areal blessing. So thank you for being
there with me today. Oh I'vehad a blast Gina, Thank you awesome
(45:21):
friends. Today we've been talking aboutpeople pleasing and if you want to share
this re listen to it, youknow, send it off to a friend,
subscribe, Head on over to wwwdot Feminine roadmap dot com. Forward
Slash Episode three point fifty. Ifyou are on YouTube, just look down
below. The links will be rightthere, or you can go to my
(45:42):
website and get them. This conversation, friends, is a conversation. It's
an ongoing dialogue around how we operatein the world, not in a critical
way, but back to the ideaof grace and gentleness, understanding who we
are, are worth and our valueas well as to Amy's point, we
have different points of view, wehave different faith beliefs, but we can
(46:02):
approach each other and have a conversation. So even in the people pleasing thing,
trusting that another person can have graceand gentleness as well, and you
can have a point of conversation onany topic that can be healthy and forward
moving. So I think sometimes wedon't even realize maybe these small areas where
(46:22):
we silence ourselves, or maybe weeven expect silence from other people because we
are uncomfortable this conversation. We barelyscratch the service, but please take the
time to tap into the resources thatyou need. Use these strategies that Amy
shared, those last three points,and see if there's not some way that
you can become a healthier, better, more communicative, gracious version of yourself,
(46:49):
not for other people, but foryourself. Isn't that something to think
about. You can do better foryourself. You don't have to do it
for other people, although it willmake a difference in your world as you
grow and improve. Thank you forjoining us today, and I'm really grateful
for the time that you sat andspent with us. I asked that you
would just remember to share this informationbecause it's powerful. I look forward to
(47:12):
sharing more interesting and impactful people strategiesand conversations with you in the weeks to
come. Take care of my friends. Bye bye,
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