April 22, 2024 • 54 mins
Today on Feminine Roadmap we are talking about how creativity transforms women in midlife with artist Kelly Herrick. Kelly believes that menopause is not just about hormones, it’s a season that offers so much more. In this episode she explains how this is the most creative crucible of our lives, it’s the most creative transformation of our lives. The conversation around creativity is rising up in so many women in midlife, there is a creative heartbeat that can be sensed. Within the metamorphosis of perimenopause we physically change but also there is a sense of what’s next. As we are being transformed in our bodies so we are being called to reinvent ourselves. That reinvention includes releasing things as well as becoming curious about what we want to add, what inspires us. This conversation is full of wonderful insights and ideas about how we can lean into menopause as a pause, reflect and reframe through creativity. Please grab a cuppa something wonderful and join us to get inspired on your journey. https://www.kellyherrick.com/
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Hi, him Ginifer are welcome tothe Feminine Roadmap Podcast, a global community
of women in midlife. We gatherhere weekly over a cup of something wonderful
for real talk, life changing strategiesand a big dose of sisterhood. Now
please sit back and enjoy. Hello, Feminine Roadmappers. Welcome back to Feminine
(00:30):
Roadmap Podcasts, the podcast that helpsyou navigate the challenges and the changes of
midlife and empowers you to live amore vibrant second half. If you find
us on YouTube today, please don'tforget to ring that bell so you don't
miss any more of these conversations.And if you're on a podcast platform,
please subscribe, rate and share.Today we're going to be talking about creativity
(00:52):
and perimenopause. My guest today believesthat perimenopause is not just about hormones,
that there's so much much more tothis season. She believes that this is
the most creative crucible of our lives. It's the most creative transformation of our
lives. My guest's name is KellyHerrick. She's an artist and she is
(01:14):
the founder of Rebloom School. Kelly, thank you so much for being with
me today. Oh it's a pleasure, Gana, thanks for having me on.
Yes, we had some we hadsome time change challenges. I'm in
California and Kelly is in England,but we got it together and I'm so
excited to share her and her mindsetand her passion around art. So,
(01:37):
Kelly, would you give us alittle bit of an insight why you see
art and perimenopause and menopause as aperfect pairing. I'm interested to hear your
perspective. Yeah. Well, it'sfirst of all, and it has real
similarities between the vibe and the flowand the kind of process, the inner
(02:02):
process of making and creating. Ithink as we're going through in perimenopause and
menopause, because we are, ina sense recreating ourselves. So I really
feel that we've been through so manybig biological changes as women, but there's
always someone else at the end.So if you think about puberty and adolescence,
(02:23):
we're becoming sexually active, ready forpartners and you know, to make
babies and pro create. And thenwhen we go through the other big transformation
that some of us have had ofthe labor and having children, that's to
become a mother and your children atthe end of that process, and then
you get to perimenopause and menopause andwe go through this huge physiological, emotional,
(02:45):
mental transformation, but it's just usat the other side. And I
think that's amazing and so powerful,and I just want to help spread that
kind of more optimistic and powerful messageamongst so many of the other challenges that
we have as sort of perimenopausing andmenopausing women. I so agree with you.
(03:07):
It's such a lovely uh what's theword I'm looking for, Like the
process itself is not necessarily lovely,but the but who we become and the
process of it, it's it's sucha lovely metamorphosis. Yes, it's a
(03:28):
metamorphosis. Yes, you can feelit, like it's so obvious and in
when we are more aware of ourown transformation, right instead of because I
feel like we look at it veryclinically like, oh, this is menopause,
and I just can't wait to getthrough to the other side. But
there's so much in it, iswhat I hear you saying. Oh gosh,
(03:50):
yeah, And I mean, somany amazing people out there and the
whole world has kind of opened upto menopause. I've seen anyway, over
this last sort of year or so, and there's so much more conversation around
it. And it's brilliant because womenare kind of getting that share of voice
that we need, and older womenas well, you know, you kind
of feel as they slide off intoinvisibility, and actually now it's getting a
(04:13):
lot of share of voice. Butdespite brilliant people talking about either HRT or
you know, exercise or nutrition orlifestyle, we're kind of forgetting, like
you've just said that, as wellas the challenges, and I know they
can be awful, awful things thatwe go through, but as well as
that, and despite that and becauseof those challenges, we're also creating some
(04:35):
of the most amazing things in ourlives, whether that's actual creation like art,
or whether it's this transformation of ourselvesand our vision for our life.
And I would love to give thatmore share of voice, as well as
the other menopausal issues and topics.You know, I agree, And of
course with my podcast, I've heardthe blessing of speaking to different people about
(04:59):
this topic of perimenopause, menopause,the transition, the gifts that are involved
in it. But I would reallylike to specifically with you chat about this
idea of perimenopause and art and creativity. Let's talk through that passion of yours.
Yeah, well, obviously you know, I'm forty nine. So it's
(05:19):
a lived experience. Let's get youknow, no bones about it. It's
definitely a lived experience. Similarly toa lot of us out there. I
am, you know, forgetting myown name some days, hurting and aching
other days, can't get out ofbed some days, and you know,
whatever the symptoms are. So forme, I guess my personal experience has
(05:40):
been over the last few years ofusing my own art practice to help hold
space for that transformation. And Ithink I was doing that before I even
realized really what was happening. Soit was a really natural, gentle and
graceful way to kind of I washolding space without realizing it, and then
(06:00):
I kind of grew into that space. So having an art practice or crafting
or a making practice, or evenlike playing an instrument or whatever creative outlet
you have, it just carves outthat time for you to really be you,
doesn't it Throughout the days or theweeks, and we're all we're living
(06:23):
such busy lives and our ages,you know, in those kind of mid
ages, we're often at the pinnacleof a career, or we've got children
that are growing up, and kindof it's quite demanding on your pocket as
well as on your emotions, aswell as on your time. You know,
you've got maybe older parents who aretrying, you know, needing extra
care and attention and your community.So many of us have stepped into kind
(06:45):
of leading in whatever way that lookslike that we forget that we need that
soft quietness and that time to explore, to play, to kind of unfurl
a little bit, you know,just to kind of kind of breathing ourselves
be. And that's where it startedfor me with the art and the perimenopause
(07:05):
world. I guess so two thingsyou said there, the gentle softness and
the unfurling, those are just beautifulways of expressing this season of life.
I do agree. I'm not sayingit's easy, but it's the it's the
potential that we get to tap into. So we've had all these things that
(07:30):
we've done, and these gifts andskills and abilities, right, it's not
like we're letting that go. Butthere's almost like for many of us,
a complete transformation and how we woulduse those gifts things that maybe have been
forgotten that we need to pick backup. And I would like to talk
about the gift of creativity in aidingthis transformation. So let's talk about how
(07:59):
that plays into helping us in ourown metamorphosis from that you know, caterpillar
to the butterfly. Let's talk aboutit. Yeah, yeah, you know,
creativity is such a powerful thing atany time of life. And I
hear so many people, so manypeople say to me when I'm teaching,
you know, so I'm not creativeat all. And actually it's a fact.
(08:22):
As a species, we are themost creative species on the planet.
That's just a fact. That's howwe've got to where we are, good
or bad, That's how we've gotto where we are. So I really
believe, and I know you believethis as well, that we are created
to create, and you know thatis an natural thing. But in this
kind of fiery crucible time, it'sphysically fiery as well. There is a
(08:43):
gentleness and a softness. But there'salso the other side of that, is
this creativity born of the spark andborn of this kind of inner fire where
we are symbolically I think letting goof the things that no longer serve us.
Our tolerance level for bs and stuffthat we don't want around us kind
(09:05):
of drops and we become more powerfulas women, I think. And we
literally don't have the tolerance there andthe capacity or the bandwidth because we are
hurting, or we are tired,or we are forgetful, or whatever the
symptoms are. You know, itreduces our capacity. So I think creativity
steps in as this way of kindof re sparking that inner self in us.
(09:28):
And once we start to feel thatfire of creativity start to really burn
and excite us. You know.I have so many friends who have ditched
a corporate job and started a sidehustle or their own business, or people
that have come back to a craftor a way of making after years of
letting it go. And it's becausethere's this essential sort of creative fire that's
(09:50):
happening in us. And for me, that kind of idea of creative self
expression really comes to the front andbecomes super super powerful when you have something
bold to say. Oh my goodness, don't we all have something bold to
say at this time of our lives? You know, So what better time
(10:11):
than to kind of step into thatcreative self expression than now, oh,
I mean, you're singing my song. This is my theme song, right,
it's so incredible. So as you'retalking and you're describing this season of
life and how we do become morepowerful, you know those archetypes of the
(10:33):
maiden and you know, and youbecome the crone, right. And I
had a conversation with someone about what'swhat's between like the mom and the crone,
the matron and the crone, Likewhat is that? And we were
discussing this, like jump to chronefeels very like you said, almost like
you're disappearing. But I was justpondering how all of what you just said
(11:00):
that we bring to the table,all of that wisdom, all of that
fire, is actually instead of becominginvisible, it's almost elevating us to that
place where we can be the wisdomand we can be the light for women
coming along behind us that aren't thereyet. So maybe crown isn't a lovely
word, but I can see asyou're talking that everything's leading us to this
(11:22):
place. And maybe societally we don'tvalue it the way in some cultures it
is valued. But I see howvaluing a woman who's been through that crucible,
who's been through the fire of lifeplus the fire of menopause, because
for some women it really is abattle to maintain the same level of expectation
in our lives and go through allof that at the same time. Is
(11:43):
quite a testimony of the strength ofwomen. Oh yeah, absolutely. And
I think that crone, like alot of other words that have become maybe
difficult or challenging to people, andpeople take them and re own them for
themselves. The queer community have donethat, you know. I think krone
(12:07):
is one of those words of empowerment. And when you look at I'm very
much inspired by myth and folklore,ancient ritual landscapes forms a massive part of
my art practice. And when youlook at the deep sort of mythology around
krone and hags, they're very powerful, and they're very wise, and they're
(12:28):
very strong characters. And there's anauthor called Sharon Blackie who you probably know,
a British author who leans into thatkind of mythology, and she wrote
Hagitude, and that's her book aboutkind of postmenopausal life having hagitude. Learned
to kiss the hag You know,embrace that because that's actually a really powerful
(12:48):
archetype. And I think there's anarchetype that kind of runs through us all
as women that doesn't relate to age, because archetypes are not always age related.
And I think I keep talking aboutthe creatrix, and the creatrix archetype
has a power, has a magic, has a spirituality, has a an
(13:11):
ability to bring things forward or bringcreate things in the world that I think
is relevant at any time of life. But now I think the creatrix is
kind of like on you know,on steroids, it's really going for it
during menopause. The creatrix is theone for me. I agree wholeheartedly.
I can feel that tempo in myown body. I've always been creative and
(13:35):
I always have created, but there'salmost like a hyperdrive, yes for creativity.
I think that, yeah, there'sa need, there's a there's a
wildness I think to creativity and naturalness, and I always talk about people's wild
heart, and I think that goingthrough menopause becomes a very wild, raw
(13:58):
natural thing for us. And yes, it's kind of becoming scientific euised,
that's not a word medicalized, andkind of boxed into medication and treatments and
stuff, and that's brilliant because thathelps so many women. But there's also
a raw wildness and a wildheartedness toit. So I think when we lean
(14:22):
into that, there's this kind ofgetting back to our wild, creative selves.
But also, and especially for me, and I can only speak from
my own experiences, real sort ofconnection to the sort of feminine power of
the world and the natural world,which kind of comes back to Chrone because
very often the Crone stereotypes were naturebased wise women in the stories. So
(14:48):
yeah, it's all these circles andcycles within cycles. It's really fascinating,
isn't it. Yes, it makesme think of an unfettered exis stance,
And it don't mean that in aselfish way. I think some people have
taken some of this and made itmore self centered, but I see it
(15:09):
more in terms of service, ifthat makes any sense. It's like,
yes, it's for me, thisseason of life, the gifts that are
in it are for me as well. We've lived a lot of life of
service, which I have enjoyed thatseason of my life. But there is
this, as our hormones drop,there is that I'm not tolerating whatever anymore.
(15:30):
We do shift, we change,we fundamentally become a little bit you
go through the fog of menopause,but there's a clarity at the end of
it. And like you said,we don't have the child at the end,
or necessarily the business at the end. It's more of a coming of
age for ourselves and really understanding howin this season of life we have this
(15:54):
better understanding of ourselves hopefully, andwe have this awareness of the heart of
what we long to do and bein this season. We do have parents
a lot of us that we arecaring for, and I do have my
mom that I do a lot ofthings for. But even with that,
(16:14):
it's like they're still holding that spacethat you're talking about, that creative space.
That's that wild space where we cango gently and explore who it is
we want to be and how wewant to express that in the world.
For you and I, it's art, right, That expression comes through all
forms of art. But let's talkabout creativity. Let's zoom out a little
(16:37):
bit and talk about because somebody's like, I can't draw, because that's always
the first thing that people say ifyou sake art, They like, I
can't draw, Right, how manytimes if you heard that, it's like,
well, I didn't say drawing,I said gazillions. Right, So
I would love to have you fleshout a little bit this idea of creativity
for someone who's thinking, I'm notin our I can't draw. So let's
(17:02):
play around in that playground of creativityand really help people think differently about it.
Yeah, and it's an interesting onebecause once you get past the barrier
of I can't draw, it's likeon corking a fizzy bottle, and everything
just kind of spurts out of people. I've seen it so many times,
because you're right, people equate creativitywith a creative outlet or a creative output,
(17:26):
and creativity with like a capital Cis not necessarily the same thing as
making a piece of art, orbeing a constant pianist, or putting on
a play or writing a novel.They're kind of creative outputs. So,
like I said before, everybody iswired for creativity. We can imagine what's
behind a closed door. We canwork out how to make dinner with the
(17:48):
scraps left in the fridge. Wecan put an outfit together last minute when
we, you know, get offeredto go out somewhere. They're all signs
of a creative brain. So forme, I'll often say people, don't
do anything extra if you don't thinkyou're being creative. Don't try all of
a sudden to be creative, becausethat's going to just like put you into
a stress mode. It's going tomake you think you have to perform and
(18:11):
you have to do a thing andit's got to be perfect. Instead,
why don't you spend a week withyour journal, your phone, your friend,
however you like to kind of reflecton your day in your life,
just noticing where you're actually already beingcreative, because I bet there are so
many times during the day where Idon't know, you work out a new
formula for that spreadsheet, or youcome up with an idea in a meeting,
(18:34):
or you do a really gorgeous flawalarrangement in your church, or there's
so many things that you will thinkare a task that you're performing, but
if you just take a beat andjust hold on, you will realize it's
actually very creative. So I wouldurge people to think about creativity as a
(18:56):
kind of mental state that we're allnaturally good at. That's the first thing
and then secondly, I would sayonce you've realized how creative you are being
already. You know it's very triteand it's very overdone, but you know,
hashtag do it for the process andfall in love with just messing around
and giving yourself permission to play andexplore things and don't get hung up on
(19:18):
what you're going to produce at theend or even show anybody or even expect
it to be amazing, you know, kind of let go of all the
expectations and just play. So soyeah, for me, creativity starts with
just noticing and leaning into the beliefand the knowledge that you are creative if
that's the first thing, and thenjust play, you know, go back
(19:38):
to having some fun and expressing yourself. That that's everybody is comfortable starting at
that point. So if you're listeningto this and you feel uncomfortable with creativity,
start there and you're going to havea ball. You're going to really
enjoy it. It's really that senseof curiosity, right like what, Yeah,
I wonder what I wonder? Whatif? Like we do it all
(19:59):
the time, Like you said,cooking, how many times have we been
like you have a recipe and you'relike, well, I don't have all
of these ingredients, but I wantto make this recipe, right, So
yeah, I'll just substitute this forthat, right Exactly, We're making it
up as we go along. Nobodyknows. Nobody knows that I would say
the Queen of England blessed she's gonenow, but I can't quite move on.
(20:22):
But you know, no nobody knows, whether it's the president or the
CEO or your parents. Everybody's makingup as they go along. So just
remember that and you'll be fine.And actually, I have a formula for
creativity. I'm not a maths person, but I've always kind of tried to
reduce complicated concepts into things that areeasy to understand. And I've got a
(20:45):
formula which is creativity equals curiosity plusaction times repetition, which is very much
what you just said. So creativityis what if this? And then you
act on that and try it out, and then you think do I like
it? Do I not? What'sthe next step? And then you repeat
that? So what if I changedit to this? And then you take
(21:07):
action and then you repeat it.And literally that's all creativity is. It's
wondering what if seeing if it worksand then carrying on or changing it and
going again. That's you know,that's the process of painting, right from
beginning to end, or writing anovel or any of those things. And
I think that we, ah,we get so much out of the creative
(21:32):
process. It like untangles sometimes,you know, it's for example, I
love to do jigsaw puzzles. Ihave one here to my right. Just
why I'm pointing that direction, andI as I do jigsaw puzzles, I'm
thinking about the color, I'm thinkingabout the shape. And what ends up
happening is things fall away from mymind and I can focus on this other
(21:56):
thing. And then sometimes my brainis puzzling over something while I'm doing a
puzzle, and that creative process ofdoing a puzzle does wonderful things for my
mental health sometimes, like it's aplace to go to that really has no
value in the world. Right youput it together, you're taking apart.
(22:18):
A puzzle is pretty much just forme, yeah, right, But I
think even that can be something creativebecause your brain is thinking about solutions.
So maybe we could think of creativityalso in terms of solutions, right,
Like when we're trying to find theanswer to something, isn't that creativity?
Yes, a problem solving, lookingfor alternatives and getting over challenges, bouncing
(22:44):
back, resilience and all of thosethings are creative thinking. And there's a
lot of studies out there actually thatyou know, purport that boredom is good,
boredom is good for creativity and boredom. I'm not saying jigsaw puzzles are
boring, but you know, I'lldo a puzzle in the magazine, or
you know, knitting things that youdon't need to kind of really focus on,
(23:06):
and for some people that could bemindful painting and drawing where you're not
trying to create a specific thing.It lets your brain rest if you've given
it a problem, you know,and you're desperately thinking of how do I
resolve this thing? How do Iresolve this thing? That's why a lot
of people have great ideas in theshower or when they've gone for a walk,
because, like you just said,you gift that problem to your subconscious
(23:27):
brain and then you relax, andthen you play with your conscious brain and
all the time your subconscious is workingon that stuff creatively and you just don't
know it. And then eureka,boom, you get the idea or you
get the fix or the solve orwhatever it is. So there's a definite
part for kind of hands on makingand hands on activity as part of that
(23:48):
process as well, whether you wantto create a masterpiece or you just want
to use it as a mindfulness practicein order to help you with your creativity
in your daily life. You know, getting how on doodling. How many
of us doodle when we're on zoomcalls and other things. You know,
you're always kind of doodling or making, and it's just a way to ease
(24:10):
your subconscious mind. I think.So there's so many ways you can use
creativity as at all like that,whether it's really like I said, whether
it's to create an amazing thing you'regoing to put in your home and be
proud of, or whether it's justsomething that gets you through your day or
transitions you maybe into the weekend,or gets you over that horrible, big
meeting that you just had and youcan kind of you know, let your
hair down when you get home.All of these things are really valid.
(24:33):
I think as you're talking, I'mhearing behind the scenes of what you're sharing
is possibly people feeling the need toperform. Oh yes that perfect? Ye
yes, yeah, perform. Iwill perform and show everybody I'm doing this
thing, and I will also doit absolutely brilliantly, and there'll be no
(24:56):
way that anybody can judge me.I mean I can hear myself doing that,
you know, on Instagram if weshared as much of the stuff that
goes wrong, and I do sometimes, but our feeds would not look and
people would not think we were thepeople we are, because actually we're all
in that performance mode. And whatI love about art and making is that
(25:18):
it doesn't really require anybody to seeit. You can if you like,
but you don't have to. AndI teach quite a number of sketchbook courses
in person and online. And whatI love about a sketchbook is that you
can close it. You could evenbuy one with a lock on it if
you were that desperate to not showit to anyone, you know. And
a sketch book is really personal,or a sketch journal or a combination or
(25:41):
like a book where you write incollage or whatever that looks like for you,
is because you can close it.It is private if you don't want
to share that with anybody. Youcan make as many mistakes in there as
you like, you can rip thepage out, you can go again.
And I think sketch books and journalsreally offer a place sanctuary for people who
are concerned about being perfect and concernedabout performing because it's a private it's a
(26:06):
private thing. So definitely if that'syou, or if you're having that moment,
you know, I often have thatmoment and I'll go to my sketch
book and just play around, andthen I'll go back to the canvas because
I've kind of let it out andI've got all my agitation out and now
I can, you know, honein on what I actually want to paint.
So yeah, really useful. Thatis such a powerful thought for people
(26:26):
to understand that creativity is for us. Yes, it's not for consumption.
It's primarily a process that we've beengiven by design as creatures that can do
that. It's an expression. Somepeople express it with their frustration, some
(26:52):
people express it with joy. Butit's a language. Creativity is a language,
and I think it is a soulfew language, oh gosha. And
it's a dance too, you know. It's a language and it's a dance
and it's a movement. And mycreativity is not my content. Yes,
I share my art as content onmy social media channels, but it's very
(27:18):
reductive, Very quickly becomes very reductiveif you're literally doing it just to put
content on social media or just tokeep showing you know, your loved ones
and they all go, yeah,it's great, it's great. You know,
it becomes very self serving and veryreductive. So I absolutely agree with
you that creativity is a soul fillingprocess or way of being more than a
(27:41):
process. It was actually my wordfor last year. I have a word
every year, and my word forlast year was soul full, purposefully spelt
with two l's, as in,my soul is full, and how do
I fill up my soul? AndI think that art and creativity just offers
such a unique way for people todo that, and particular for women in
this middle of life where we're inthe messy middle right where like the mush
(28:03):
inside the caterpillar's crystalist, we're notstill a caterpillar, we're not yet a
butterfly. We're kind of disintegrating andrebuilding and going through all that process in
the chrysalist and while we're doing that, What better way than to express all
of that in creative ways that don'thave to mean anything to anyone else,
(28:26):
you know. It's such an outlet. And in the guide that I've put
together, there's one of the exerciseswhere it's about self expression of your pain
and your symptoms and your challenges,which again is scientifically peer reviewed to assist
and help you manage things like discomfortand pain by kind of understanding it and
(28:47):
befriending it through art and expression,and also how that can help you then
explain that to your loved ones orto colleagues, you know. So there
are many ways that art can bepractical for you. As well as making
a picture in a frame, thereare many other ways that it can be
part of your toolkit to kind ofget through and find joy as well.
(29:11):
We don't want to just get through, right, We want to find joy
in this process. The joy piece. It's so hard to explain, but
it's like I would go so faras to say, it's an actual need
that we have in this season ofperimenopause, this transition, this crystalist period
of our lives. It's like amixture of we need to rest from all
(29:36):
of the driving. To some degree, we also need to restore because we
are, like you said, we'redissolving things and we're growing things, and
it's very much a very active seasonin some kind of undefinable ways. Do
you know what I'm trying to express. It's not all happening out there where
(29:57):
people can see it, but it'sour bodies are literally going through this transformation.
And sometimes we're confused about it,right, and sometimes we're frustrated with
it or angry with it or whatever. And everybody's having these different experiences,
but it's a natural process that allwomen throughout millennia have gone through, and
so there's this beauty to it thatmaybe in some cultures, maybe in some
(30:22):
points in history, it was seenfor what it is, and it's this
beautiful, like you said, metamorphosis. But I think in order to fully
express that, we need to leanin, like you're saying, and allow
those those things that are popping up, the curiosities that we have, the
things that we want to do,and allowing ourselves to almost go back to
(30:45):
childhood in a bit and just trywhatever crosses our little minds, you know
what I'm saying, Like and notbeing so judgital on the outcome mm hm,
because you mentioned outcome and that's whereit was perimenopausal brain happening right this
moment. But it's shifting from outcomebased living, which we've needed to do
(31:08):
and have done for so long.It's turning that idea on its head and
saying, I'm doing this just forthe soulfulness of it, the joy of
it, just because that is restorativeto me. Yes, And that's totally
valid and totally okay. It doesn'thave to be. It's kind of a
(31:30):
reprogramming because I think we've all hadsuch a huge list of responsible tasks to
keep doing repetitively every moment of everyday while life is, whether we're parents
or whether we're workers or whatever,we've been doing that coming at art and
creativity now is kind of relearning thatthat program to understand, like you said,
(31:52):
it's not a task just to tickoff and to do. It's actually
a relearning. And like I've said, you know, unfurling or reblooming,
there's something in that which which ispowerful in its gentleness. And I think
you know where I'm coming out withusing art to relieve and ease symptoms and
(32:14):
find joy and kind of reimagine yourvision for your second half of life and
kind of find yourself again. I'mnot saying that if you're in the absolute
clutches of terrible, terrible physical andemotional menopausal symptoms, that that's the right
thing to turn to, because youknow there's medication and you kind of need
(32:34):
help and attention to come down outof the tree. You know, you've
climbed up into this crazy tree becauseyou know there's so much going on for
you. But when you're ready andyou get to that point where maybe you're
exploring your symptoms, or you've gotsome of it under control, or you're
starting to have enough bandwidth and capacityto think, what else is there?
What more can there be to thisprocess, that's the golden moment, I
think where you can start to leaninto your natural creativity and start to look
(32:59):
to inspirations and to different ways ofyou know, creating that as an outlet.
So even if you're listening to thisand you're kind of like, oh
my god, I am so inlike the craziness and the mayhem that I
couldn't even consider picking up stitches ora sketch book or a camera don't panic,
(33:19):
don't worry, because there will bethat moment and it's always there.
It's always there for you to pickit up. So see it as like
this beautiful, this beautiful creative hugwaiting to happen, and whenever you're ready
for it, it's going to bethere, ready for you. And I
think you will be more ready aswell. Do you know what I mean?
Because this metamorphosis that we're talking about, it does seem to be driving
(33:44):
women toward creativity. It's fascinating tome how that, like, okay,
community always comes up, like howimportant it is to have your good community,
you know, and this rest,learning to rest during the season of
life and allowing our bodies to dowhatever they need to do and leaning into
(34:04):
that season and not seeing it asa weakness but understanding this process is doing
something in us and for us.And then that creativity piece, you know,
so many women are finding that whetherit's gardening, cooking, making sour
dough bread, decorating their houses,you know, whatever it is, there's
(34:27):
that drive. I'm seeing it likeyou're identifying how creative this season is.
And I'm talking to women and findingthat they're if they've never technically been creative,
Okay, you know, in thein the formal sense that we all
want to define creativity. Can youdraw? Can you paint? But there's
a there's like a heartbeat of creativitythat's rising in women that you're identifying,
(34:52):
and I think it's really exciting.Oh my gosh, I just love that.
That was so poetic, Gina,there's a heartbeat of creativity rising in
women. I'm gonna I'm trying toremember that. I will use that as
a quote. I love that.And yeah, and I also think off
the back of the pandemic. Iknow it's been four years now, Gosh,
that's gone so quickly, but Ithink off the back of the isolation.
(35:14):
Yeah, the back of the isolation, the challenges, the health issues,
the kind of panic and the timeto do nothing. I think that's
also, you know, helped justraise creativity and enjoyment of creative hobbies massively.
I think I don't know the numbers, but it was absolutely crazy,
(35:34):
like Hobbycraft, the super chain ofhobby stores like Reporters, and four hundred
or six hundred percent increase over COVID. So you saw people kind of making
that sour dough loaf as well asdoing the little five minute workout online,
but it was kind of everybody waslike, what can I do things to
do? So I think there's definitelymore awareness of different things that are out
(35:55):
there, you know. I thinkwomen are more maybe more confident to go
do you know what. I'd loveto try a pot throwing class, or
I'd love to go to the gardensCenter and learn more about growing fruit or
whatever those things are. So Ithink there's definite confidence and availability of creativity
that's now kind of merging. Likeyou said, with that heartbeat that's rising,
(36:16):
there's a need and a desire todo it, but there's also an
availability of it in the world.So I just think that's like the perfect
compliment, isn't it of like perfectmix for magic to happen. It really
is, And I think tapping intothe magic of it, not the expectation
of it, is key as well. Yeah, And no matter what your
(36:40):
beliefs are, whether you're religious ornot religious, or you know, whatever
you think about the world, thereis a definite sort of spirituality to making
that. I also see that asa big trend in my group and network
of women of my age group.I'm seeing people be more creative. I'm
(37:00):
seeing people want to be more free, I'm seeing people want to tap into
mission service and authenticity. And thenI'm also seeing this kind of spiritual reawakening
in a lot of people. Andthose three or four I can't remember how
many I've just said, but thosethree or four big themes are really common
amongst our age group, and Ithink it's because we know that there's going
(37:24):
to be room for us. Ican't think of a better way to describe
it. But kind of, likeI said earlier in the conversation, after
this metamorphosis, there isn't like ababy or a husband at the end of
it necessarily. I mean, hopefullythere are still you know, even my
eighteen year old is still my baby. But what I mean is is that
we'll come out of it kind offor ourselves and independent for ourselves. So
(37:47):
I think, yeah, there's adefinite trend towards that more spiritual, spiritually
rewarding side of creating and making,whether that's on purpose for a specific belief
set or just that flow state thatwe find ourselves in, that wellness that
coming back to the now. Ithink that's a really powerful tool as well
(38:09):
of creativity and making. And that'smy word for this year, by the
way. Now, so yes,what is it I'm leaning into now as
much as possible? Now, Yeah, I love these conversations and I hope
that listeners are really contemplating looking forthose silver linings in this season of life,
(38:31):
like in what ways are we shedding? Because I think we definitely are,
to your analogy of the chrysalis,you know, there are some things
melting away. I feel like it'sa real season of sifting. You know,
It's like our bodies are being sifted, our emotions are being sifted,
even our lives in some ways arebeing sifted. And I think there's kind
(38:53):
of like a need for that pause. I think the perimental pause, mento
pause. I think that word pauseis so key. You know. It's
like our butt when we went frompuberty to menopause, puberty to having a
cycle. Now we're going from cycleback to not having one. So our
(39:14):
body's essentially been through this process.Now we're just doing it in reverse,
and it is a pause to somedegree. There's a certain capacity that we've
always been able to manage that feelslike it's harder to manage now, and
instead of seeing it negatively, howcan we look at look at it and
say, okay, that's you usedthe concept of holding space and making space
(39:37):
in our life. I feel likethe pause part of perimenopause and menopause is
that space. And we've been goingat such a pace. It's hard to
slow down. Yes, you know, but to be creative, right,
that's slowing down mm hmmm hmm.Yeah. And I find that incredibly difficult
(39:58):
to slow down. And you know, even today, I went to a
gallery about an hour away to dropoff a painting for an exhibition, and
then I came back and I knewI was speaking to you in a few
hours later, and I was kindof just walking around the house and like
what should I do? I said, Oh, my gosh, what am
(40:19):
I? I don't know, Idon't know what to do. And then
I said to my husband, Ifeel like I'm wasting this time in between.
I'm just sat here doing nothing,and he went, but you are
doing something because you're recharging as you'redoing what you considered to be nothing.
You clearly need that because otherwise youwouldn't be doing it. So you are
doing something. You know, doingnothing can be doing something. Pausing can
(40:42):
be active for those of us whorequire this. I don't know this this
way of looking at things as productiveor efficient or whatever. You know,
there is there is a productivity innot producing, which I know sounds absolutely
crazy, but you know you can'tdrive your car without servicing it or without
(41:05):
kind of letting the engine call downand not overheat. So it's exactly the
same thing, isn't It's kind ofthat restorative thing that you were talking about.
So, yeah, the pause,the pause is important, and we
can pause, and you know,art and creativity can be RESTful. It
can be gentle. You don't haveto be flinging paint on a massive canvas.
(41:28):
You know, you can take alittle sketchbook and a pencil up to
bed and doodle things and write things. It can be very gentle. So
I think the pause can be avariety of pauses too. It's a reframe,
isn't it. It really is areframe of the life that we've lived
and what does this season require ofme? And what does it not require
(41:52):
of me? And I think thecreativity that you're talking about, Kelly,
is a vehicle to help us workthrough all of that. Yeah, Yeah,
who am I really? And withouttrying to explain that to somebody,
if you don't know yourself, bygoing through a creative making process, you're
(42:13):
exploring who am I really? Fromthe colors you might choose, to the
subject material, to what you mightsay, to how you might make a
mark. All of these things arewho you are really, and that's what
we're exploring. And I think knowingthat and physically experiencing it by creating things
makes you more knowledgeable and experienced ofyourself. It's kind you know, when
(42:37):
you say something is very different tokind of knowing it in your bones.
I don't know if that's an Americanthing, is a very Northern English thing,
like knowing it in your bones,And I think by the act of
creating it helps you know in yourbones, in yourself who you are,
and that I think is something notto be sniffed at in this stage.
(43:00):
You know, yes, we're stillgoing to be confused. No, I'll
probably won't give you all the answers, but goodness, what a tool,
What a powerful tool it is tohelp navigate you know, it's definitely definitely
something worth playing with and seeing whereit takes you. I have so many
thoughts in my head right now,the productivity in the pause. That's a
(43:22):
powerful thought. The soulfulness of creativity, the beauty of the transformation. We're
going through it and reflecting on whatneeds to be left behind. It has
served its purpose and it's a beautifulthing. But we don't have to carry
(43:42):
everything forward. And I think ifI could just express my own joy of
creating it, it's a bit likefinding joy in the way a paint moves
or a color makes me feel right. And so briefly, I want to
touch on the people in video willbe able to see your style of landscape
(44:07):
art behind you. And one ofthe things that attracted me to your art
originally was that wildness that you havein your style. It's the best way
I know how to express it formyself. Right there's an abandon to your
artistic style. And we talked brieflybefore we started the actual podcast that people
(44:30):
are drawn to you because they wantto paint like you, right. They
want to have that same wild abandonand they want to be able to abstract
a landscape or loosen it up orwhatever. And that's a wonderful thing to
explore and to be creative about.But I think greater than that is using
that as a jumping off point forfinding what about that art is speaking to
(44:55):
you and how you can find away to express it in a way that's
your own voice, in your ownexpression of it. Because I think as
people learn to paint, it's thefirst thing we do is imitate the people
we admire, right, But thegoal in this creativity that you and I
are talking about is to get toa place where it becomes an expression of
(45:16):
who you are and where you're at. And it will evolve right as you
Yes, absolutely it doesn't stay then, no, it won't. It won't
ever stay the same, even youknow the really famous masters that have different
periods and different styles of work acrosstheir careers, their painting careers. And
(45:37):
for me, I guess the wildnessof my work is anchored in the places
that I choose to paint. So, as I've said to you, you
know, I'm always in like theCeltic west of the UK. So that's
for the overseas listeners that be likeWales, Cornwall, Scotland, Ireland,
all of those regions to the west. And I am kind of drawn by
(45:58):
wild, empty spaces and and kindof dramatic scenes. And I think it
goes back to my heritage, growingup on the traveling fair and always wondering
what's over the next hill. Iwalk a lot, I hike a lot,
I camp, you know, Igo out and about and I experience
all the weathers. I very rarelypaint places that I haven't stood in and
(46:19):
felt, so I'm always very rootedand grounded in that sense of place.
But it's not be because I'm justmentally choosing that for myself. It's because
it's a part of my character anda part of my heritage and a part
of what lights me up and makesmagic inside me. So that will be
very different for every person listening.Even if we painted the same scene,
(46:39):
we would both paint it incredibly different. And in my work, you know,
I like to let things dribble,and I use inks, and then
I use really big brushes and abig, bold square mark on the top,
and then I'll use my fingers alot. And I'm always painting past
(47:00):
ways and song lines, if youlike. I don't know if you're aware
of song lines, but kind ofancient roots. And I find that even
if there's no path or anything inmy painting. I'll draw dribbly lines that
feel like paths and sort of waysinto the painting. So there's always something
in the creativity that you have expressedthat is intrinsically you and cannot be copied,
(47:24):
even if it was almost an exactreplica. And I feel with the
abandon with the wildness, with thebold color choices and the expressive style,
that yeah, I am seen asquite a confident, sociable, outgoing person.
But then I also feel more confidentbecause I paint confidently. So you
(47:47):
get a lovely feedback loop from yourpersonality and your heart and soul informing your
creativity and your artwork. But thenalso your artwork helps elevate and inform your
heart and soul and who you are. And it's just this wonderful upward spiraling
loop of like elevation when you reallyget into that harmony with what you're creating.
(48:08):
So yeah, for me, Ithink I love wild and abandoned.
I love that description. I'll takethat any day of the week. I
love it. Thank you. That'sgreat. That's exactly why I was like
this artist, ah, I loveher art so much. And that was
a while back, But I wouldlove to have you share maybe three key
(48:29):
takeaways. What are three things youwould like people to think about or consider
in terms of incorporating creativity in thisseason of life. I would say,
first of all, you deserve it, and that can be a really hard
thing to accept service to ourself orkindness to ourselves. So the first thing
(48:51):
would be, you deserve this timeto be creative. You deserve to have
time, whether that's every day orevery weekend or whatever that looks like for
you. You deserve that time toand I will use waste because it's frivolous
on purpose. You deserve that timeto waste it or spend it however you
choose, and that's okay. Sofirst of all, accept the gift,
(49:14):
you know, because we all findit really easy to give to other people
and not for ourselves. So thatwould be my first thing is kind of
yeah, you deserve the time.The second is allow yourself to play.
And just because we're over forty,over fifty, over sixty, who cares,
you know, we're still those littlegirls inside and you you know,
(49:36):
you talked about it earlier. Wekind of this reverting to the freedom of
childhood, and it's like, becurious splash around, use your fingers,
choose a color just because you loveit. Who cares if it's not on
trend? You know, give yourselfthat permission to play and be little Gina,
be little Kelly. Just go forit. That would be my second
(49:57):
point. And then my third pointis very much what we've alway he talked
about, but I think it's soimportant to bring it back is do it
for yourself, and if something beautifulcomes of it that you're so proud of
that you want to put in agallery amazing. If something comes of it,
that's so ugly, but you lovethe process amazing. If something comes
of it, that's kind of okay, and you're going to learn and do
(50:19):
it again amazing, Like it reallydoesn't matter. Just do it for yourself.
So yeah, feel as though youdeserve the time play and go back
to childhood expression and let your innerchild out and then do it for yourself
rather than doing it for that finalperfect moment. Those would be my three
key things. M Wow, Ilove those so much. Kelly. How
(50:43):
can people find you? Where areyou and what are your handles? Well,
you can often find me walking inthe Peak district. So if you're
a Derbyshire loving hiker. You'll oftensee me there, but I don't think
most of your listeners are going todo that, So yeah, come and
find met. My website is justmy name, so it's Kellyherick dot com
(51:04):
and you can find me on thesocial media channels are all the same.
It's at Kellyherrick Art, So comeand find me. I love to chat
and be in community with people andvery approachable and yeah, I love I
love to find new people, socome and say hi. And if you
want the guide that I've mentioned andthis practical download, it's totally free and
(51:25):
you're going through perimenopause or menopause,I've created for those on screen. I've
got a copy here. I've createdthe meno Relief Toolkit. It's a creative
practice, it's a guide and youcan get that at Kellyheerick dot com on
my homepage and basically it's got somebrilliant symptoms checklist and then it's got all
of these amazing sort of art andmaking activities for each of those symptom types.
(51:50):
So go and get a copy ofthat and put it in the hands
of as many women as we can, because why not, let's tool everybody
up as much as we can.It's a modern renaissance. That's what we're
creating. Yes, yeah, amenaissance. That was a creative spark in
that moment. That was fantastic.I know you can have that one.
(52:15):
I'll like you well. Kelly.I want to thank you so much for
being on the show today and justfor sharing your perspective. It's so enriching
to have other women for me,other artists as well, to speak into
this sphere of creativity and perimenopause andjust having a different take on it and
the way that you're passionate about it, the connection that you bring to it,
(52:37):
and you're very approachable in your art. Thank you so much for what
you do in the world and formaking this connection between menopause and creativity because
you're so on point and I thinkwhat you're doing can change the world.
So thank you so much. Oh, You're so welcome. It's been a
joy and an absolute pleasure. Fantasticfriends today. If you find us on
(52:58):
YouTube, just look down below.I'll have the links to Kelly there,
but if you want to head tomy website, you can go to www.
Dot Feminine roadmap dot com. ForwardSlash episode three six six, and
I will have the links there.This is one of those conversations that we
want to keep stirring, the potof women in midlife finding their voice in
(53:20):
creativity, whatever that looks like foryou. This is such a creative season
that pulse keeps rising in the womenthat I talk to, and I want
to encourage you to hold a spacefor something. Anything doesn't matter what it
is. Just get curious, likeKelly said, go back to your childhood's
sense of play and curiosity. Don'tjudge it, don't worry about showing it
(53:43):
to anybody, don't worry about theoutcome. It really is the creative process
that we need to experience to growas women and to make this transition in
a way more rich. We findourselves at the end of that creative process.
It's the best way I know howto express it. It's so important
for our mental, emotional, andsoul health to find a way to create
(54:05):
in this season of life. Soreach out for that free resource from Kelly.
It'll be in the links, Sodon't worry about it. I've got
you, and I look forward tosharing more inspirational people and stories and strategies
with you in the weeks to cometake care of my friends. Bye bye,
Hi, him Ginifer are welcome tothe Feminine Roadmap Podcast, a global community
of women in midlife. We gatherhere weekly over a cup of something wonderful
for real talk, life changing strategiesand a big dose of sisterhood. Now
please sit back and enjoy. Hello, Feminine Roadmappers. Welcome back to Feminine
(00:30):
Roadmap Podcasts, the podcast that helpsyou navigate the challenges and the changes of
midlife and empowers you to live amore vibrant second half. If you find
us on YouTube today, please don'tforget to ring that bell so you don't
miss any more of these conversations.And if you're on a podcast platform,
please subscribe, rate and share.Today we're going to be talking about creativity
(00:52):
and perimenopause. My guest today believesthat perimenopause is not just about hormones,
that there's so much much more tothis season. She believes that this is
the most creative crucible of our lives. It's the most creative transformation of our
lives. My guest's name is KellyHerrick. She's an artist and she is
(01:14):
the founder of Rebloom School. Kelly, thank you so much for being with
me today. Oh it's a pleasure, Gana, thanks for having me on.
Yes, we had some we hadsome time change challenges. I'm in
California and Kelly is in England,but we got it together and I'm so
excited to share her and her mindsetand her passion around art. So,
(01:37):
Kelly, would you give us alittle bit of an insight why you see
art and perimenopause and menopause as aperfect pairing. I'm interested to hear your
perspective. Yeah. Well, it'sfirst of all, and it has real
similarities between the vibe and the flowand the kind of process, the inner
(02:02):
process of making and creating. Ithink as we're going through in perimenopause and
menopause, because we are, ina sense recreating ourselves. So I really
feel that we've been through so manybig biological changes as women, but there's
always someone else at the end.So if you think about puberty and adolescence,
(02:23):
we're becoming sexually active, ready forpartners and you know, to make
babies and pro create. And thenwhen we go through the other big transformation
that some of us have had ofthe labor and having children, that's to
become a mother and your children atthe end of that process, and then
you get to perimenopause and menopause andwe go through this huge physiological, emotional,
(02:45):
mental transformation, but it's just usat the other side. And I
think that's amazing and so powerful,and I just want to help spread that
kind of more optimistic and powerful messageamongst so many of the other challenges that
we have as sort of perimenopausing andmenopausing women. I so agree with you.
(03:07):
It's such a lovely uh what's theword I'm looking for, Like the
process itself is not necessarily lovely,but the but who we become and the
process of it, it's it's sucha lovely metamorphosis. Yes, it's a
(03:28):
metamorphosis. Yes, you can feelit, like it's so obvious and in
when we are more aware of ourown transformation, right instead of because I
feel like we look at it veryclinically like, oh, this is menopause,
and I just can't wait to getthrough to the other side. But
there's so much in it, iswhat I hear you saying. Oh gosh,
(03:50):
yeah, And I mean, somany amazing people out there and the
whole world has kind of opened upto menopause. I've seen anyway, over
this last sort of year or so, and there's so much more conversation around
it. And it's brilliant because womenare kind of getting that share of voice
that we need, and older womenas well, you know, you kind
of feel as they slide off intoinvisibility, and actually now it's getting a
(04:13):
lot of share of voice. Butdespite brilliant people talking about either HRT or
you know, exercise or nutrition orlifestyle, we're kind of forgetting, like
you've just said that, as wellas the challenges, and I know they
can be awful, awful things thatwe go through, but as well as
that, and despite that and becauseof those challenges, we're also creating some
(04:35):
of the most amazing things in ourlives, whether that's actual creation like art,
or whether it's this transformation of ourselvesand our vision for our life.
And I would love to give thatmore share of voice, as well as
the other menopausal issues and topics.You know, I agree, And of
course with my podcast, I've heardthe blessing of speaking to different people about
(04:59):
this topic of perimenopause, menopause,the transition, the gifts that are involved
in it. But I would reallylike to specifically with you chat about this
idea of perimenopause and art and creativity. Let's talk through that passion of yours.
Yeah, well, obviously you know, I'm forty nine. So it's
(05:19):
a lived experience. Let's get youknow, no bones about it. It's
definitely a lived experience. Similarly toa lot of us out there. I
am, you know, forgetting myown name some days, hurting and aching
other days, can't get out ofbed some days, and you know,
whatever the symptoms are. So forme, I guess my personal experience has
(05:40):
been over the last few years ofusing my own art practice to help hold
space for that transformation. And Ithink I was doing that before I even
realized really what was happening. Soit was a really natural, gentle and
graceful way to kind of I washolding space without realizing it, and then
(06:00):
I kind of grew into that space. So having an art practice or crafting
or a making practice, or evenlike playing an instrument or whatever creative outlet
you have, it just carves outthat time for you to really be you,
doesn't it Throughout the days or theweeks, and we're all we're living
(06:23):
such busy lives and our ages,you know, in those kind of mid
ages, we're often at the pinnacleof a career, or we've got children
that are growing up, and kindof it's quite demanding on your pocket as
well as on your emotions, aswell as on your time. You know,
you've got maybe older parents who aretrying, you know, needing extra
care and attention and your community.So many of us have stepped into kind
(06:45):
of leading in whatever way that lookslike that we forget that we need that
soft quietness and that time to explore, to play, to kind of unfurl
a little bit, you know,just to kind of kind of breathing ourselves
be. And that's where it startedfor me with the art and the perimenopause
(07:05):
world. I guess so two thingsyou said there, the gentle softness and
the unfurling, those are just beautifulways of expressing this season of life.
I do agree. I'm not sayingit's easy, but it's the it's the
potential that we get to tap into. So we've had all these things that
(07:30):
we've done, and these gifts andskills and abilities, right, it's not
like we're letting that go. Butthere's almost like for many of us,
a complete transformation and how we woulduse those gifts things that maybe have been
forgotten that we need to pick backup. And I would like to talk
about the gift of creativity in aidingthis transformation. So let's talk about how
(07:59):
that plays into helping us in ourown metamorphosis from that you know, caterpillar
to the butterfly. Let's talk aboutit. Yeah, yeah, you know,
creativity is such a powerful thing atany time of life. And I
hear so many people, so manypeople say to me when I'm teaching,
you know, so I'm not creativeat all. And actually it's a fact.
(08:22):
As a species, we are themost creative species on the planet.
That's just a fact. That's howwe've got to where we are, good
or bad, That's how we've gotto where we are. So I really
believe, and I know you believethis as well, that we are created
to create, and you know thatis an natural thing. But in this
kind of fiery crucible time, it'sphysically fiery as well. There is a
(08:43):
gentleness and a softness. But there'salso the other side of that, is
this creativity born of the spark andborn of this kind of inner fire where
we are symbolically I think letting goof the things that no longer serve us.
Our tolerance level for bs and stuffthat we don't want around us kind
(09:05):
of drops and we become more powerfulas women, I think. And we
literally don't have the tolerance there andthe capacity or the bandwidth because we are
hurting, or we are tired,or we are forgetful, or whatever the
symptoms are. You know, itreduces our capacity. So I think creativity
steps in as this way of kindof re sparking that inner self in us.
(09:28):
And once we start to feel thatfire of creativity start to really burn
and excite us. You know.I have so many friends who have ditched
a corporate job and started a sidehustle or their own business, or people
that have come back to a craftor a way of making after years of
letting it go. And it's becausethere's this essential sort of creative fire that's
(09:50):
happening in us. And for me, that kind of idea of creative self
expression really comes to the front andbecomes super super powerful when you have something
bold to say. Oh my goodness, don't we all have something bold to
say at this time of our lives? You know, So what better time
(10:11):
than to kind of step into thatcreative self expression than now, oh,
I mean, you're singing my song. This is my theme song, right,
it's so incredible. So as you'retalking and you're describing this season of
life and how we do become morepowerful, you know those archetypes of the
(10:33):
maiden and you know, and youbecome the crone, right. And I
had a conversation with someone about what'swhat's between like the mom and the crone,
the matron and the crone, Likewhat is that? And we were
discussing this, like jump to chronefeels very like you said, almost like
you're disappearing. But I was justpondering how all of what you just said
(11:00):
that we bring to the table,all of that wisdom, all of that
fire, is actually instead of becominginvisible, it's almost elevating us to that
place where we can be the wisdomand we can be the light for women
coming along behind us that aren't thereyet. So maybe crown isn't a lovely
word, but I can see asyou're talking that everything's leading us to this
(11:22):
place. And maybe societally we don'tvalue it the way in some cultures it
is valued. But I see howvaluing a woman who's been through that crucible,
who's been through the fire of lifeplus the fire of menopause, because
for some women it really is abattle to maintain the same level of expectation
in our lives and go through allof that at the same time. Is
(11:43):
quite a testimony of the strength ofwomen. Oh yeah, absolutely. And
I think that crone, like alot of other words that have become maybe
difficult or challenging to people, andpeople take them and re own them for
themselves. The queer community have donethat, you know. I think krone
(12:07):
is one of those words of empowerment. And when you look at I'm very
much inspired by myth and folklore,ancient ritual landscapes forms a massive part of
my art practice. And when youlook at the deep sort of mythology around
krone and hags, they're very powerful, and they're very wise, and they're
(12:28):
very strong characters. And there's anauthor called Sharon Blackie who you probably know,
a British author who leans into thatkind of mythology, and she wrote
Hagitude, and that's her book aboutkind of postmenopausal life having hagitude. Learned
to kiss the hag You know,embrace that because that's actually a really powerful
(12:48):
archetype. And I think there's anarchetype that kind of runs through us all
as women that doesn't relate to age, because archetypes are not always age related.
And I think I keep talking aboutthe creatrix, and the creatrix archetype
has a power, has a magic, has a spirituality, has a an
(13:11):
ability to bring things forward or bringcreate things in the world that I think
is relevant at any time of life. But now I think the creatrix is
kind of like on you know,on steroids, it's really going for it
during menopause. The creatrix is theone for me. I agree wholeheartedly.
I can feel that tempo in myown body. I've always been creative and
(13:35):
I always have created, but there'salmost like a hyperdrive, yes for creativity.
I think that, yeah, there'sa need, there's a there's a
wildness I think to creativity and naturalness, and I always talk about people's wild
heart, and I think that goingthrough menopause becomes a very wild, raw
(13:58):
natural thing for us. And yes, it's kind of becoming scientific euised,
that's not a word medicalized, andkind of boxed into medication and treatments and
stuff, and that's brilliant because thathelps so many women. But there's also
a raw wildness and a wildheartedness toit. So I think when we lean
(14:22):
into that, there's this kind ofgetting back to our wild, creative selves.
But also, and especially for me, and I can only speak from
my own experiences, real sort ofconnection to the sort of feminine power of
the world and the natural world,which kind of comes back to Chrone because
very often the Crone stereotypes were naturebased wise women in the stories. So
(14:48):
yeah, it's all these circles andcycles within cycles. It's really fascinating,
isn't it. Yes, it makesme think of an unfettered exis stance,
And it don't mean that in aselfish way. I think some people have
taken some of this and made itmore self centered, but I see it
(15:09):
more in terms of service, ifthat makes any sense. It's like,
yes, it's for me, thisseason of life, the gifts that are
in it are for me as well. We've lived a lot of life of
service, which I have enjoyed thatseason of my life. But there is
this, as our hormones drop,there is that I'm not tolerating whatever anymore.
(15:30):
We do shift, we change,we fundamentally become a little bit you
go through the fog of menopause,but there's a clarity at the end of
it. And like you said,we don't have the child at the end,
or necessarily the business at the end. It's more of a coming of
age for ourselves and really understanding howin this season of life we have this
(15:54):
better understanding of ourselves hopefully, andwe have this awareness of the heart of
what we long to do and bein this season. We do have parents
a lot of us that we arecaring for, and I do have my
mom that I do a lot ofthings for. But even with that,
(16:14):
it's like they're still holding that spacethat you're talking about, that creative space.
That's that wild space where we cango gently and explore who it is
we want to be and how wewant to express that in the world.
For you and I, it's art, right, That expression comes through all
forms of art. But let's talkabout creativity. Let's zoom out a little
(16:37):
bit and talk about because somebody's like, I can't draw, because that's always
the first thing that people say ifyou sake art, They like, I
can't draw, Right, how manytimes if you heard that, it's like,
well, I didn't say drawing,I said gazillions. Right, So
I would love to have you fleshout a little bit this idea of creativity
for someone who's thinking, I'm notin our I can't draw. So let's
(17:02):
play around in that playground of creativityand really help people think differently about it.
Yeah, and it's an interesting onebecause once you get past the barrier
of I can't draw, it's likeon corking a fizzy bottle, and everything
just kind of spurts out of people. I've seen it so many times,
because you're right, people equate creativitywith a creative outlet or a creative output,
(17:26):
and creativity with like a capital Cis not necessarily the same thing as
making a piece of art, orbeing a constant pianist, or putting on
a play or writing a novel.They're kind of creative outputs. So,
like I said before, everybody iswired for creativity. We can imagine what's
behind a closed door. We canwork out how to make dinner with the
(17:48):
scraps left in the fridge. Wecan put an outfit together last minute when
we, you know, get offeredto go out somewhere. They're all signs
of a creative brain. So forme, I'll often say people, don't
do anything extra if you don't thinkyou're being creative. Don't try all of
a sudden to be creative, becausethat's going to just like put you into
a stress mode. It's going tomake you think you have to perform and
(18:11):
you have to do a thing andit's got to be perfect. Instead,
why don't you spend a week withyour journal, your phone, your friend,
however you like to kind of reflecton your day in your life,
just noticing where you're actually already beingcreative, because I bet there are so
many times during the day where Idon't know, you work out a new
formula for that spreadsheet, or youcome up with an idea in a meeting,
(18:34):
or you do a really gorgeous flawalarrangement in your church, or there's
so many things that you will thinkare a task that you're performing, but
if you just take a beat andjust hold on, you will realize it's
actually very creative. So I wouldurge people to think about creativity as a
(18:56):
kind of mental state that we're allnaturally good at. That's the first thing
and then secondly, I would sayonce you've realized how creative you are being
already. You know it's very triteand it's very overdone, but you know,
hashtag do it for the process andfall in love with just messing around
and giving yourself permission to play andexplore things and don't get hung up on
(19:18):
what you're going to produce at theend or even show anybody or even expect
it to be amazing, you know, kind of let go of all the
expectations and just play. So soyeah, for me, creativity starts with
just noticing and leaning into the beliefand the knowledge that you are creative if
that's the first thing, and thenjust play, you know, go back
(19:38):
to having some fun and expressing yourself. That that's everybody is comfortable starting at
that point. So if you're listeningto this and you feel uncomfortable with creativity,
start there and you're going to havea ball. You're going to really
enjoy it. It's really that senseof curiosity, right like what, Yeah,
I wonder what I wonder? Whatif? Like we do it all
(19:59):
the time, Like you said,cooking, how many times have we been
like you have a recipe and you'relike, well, I don't have all
of these ingredients, but I wantto make this recipe, right, So
yeah, I'll just substitute this forthat, right Exactly, We're making it
up as we go along. Nobodyknows. Nobody knows that I would say
the Queen of England blessed she's gonenow, but I can't quite move on.
(20:22):
But you know, no nobody knows, whether it's the president or the
CEO or your parents. Everybody's makingup as they go along. So just
remember that and you'll be fine.And actually, I have a formula for
creativity. I'm not a maths person, but I've always kind of tried to
reduce complicated concepts into things that areeasy to understand. And I've got a
(20:45):
formula which is creativity equals curiosity plusaction times repetition, which is very much
what you just said. So creativityis what if this? And then you
act on that and try it out, and then you think do I like
it? Do I not? What'sthe next step? And then you repeat
that? So what if I changedit to this? And then you take
(21:07):
action and then you repeat it.And literally that's all creativity is. It's
wondering what if seeing if it worksand then carrying on or changing it and
going again. That's you know,that's the process of painting, right from
beginning to end, or writing anovel or any of those things. And
I think that we, ah,we get so much out of the creative
(21:32):
process. It like untangles sometimes,you know, it's for example, I
love to do jigsaw puzzles. Ihave one here to my right. Just
why I'm pointing that direction, andI as I do jigsaw puzzles, I'm
thinking about the color, I'm thinkingabout the shape. And what ends up
happening is things fall away from mymind and I can focus on this other
(21:56):
thing. And then sometimes my brainis puzzling over something while I'm doing a
puzzle, and that creative process ofdoing a puzzle does wonderful things for my
mental health sometimes, like it's aplace to go to that really has no
value in the world. Right youput it together, you're taking apart.
(22:18):
A puzzle is pretty much just forme, yeah, right, But I
think even that can be something creativebecause your brain is thinking about solutions.
So maybe we could think of creativityalso in terms of solutions, right,
Like when we're trying to find theanswer to something, isn't that creativity?
Yes, a problem solving, lookingfor alternatives and getting over challenges, bouncing
(22:44):
back, resilience and all of thosethings are creative thinking. And there's a
lot of studies out there actually thatyou know, purport that boredom is good,
boredom is good for creativity and boredom. I'm not saying jigsaw puzzles are
boring, but you know, I'lldo a puzzle in the magazine, or
you know, knitting things that youdon't need to kind of really focus on,
(23:06):
and for some people that could bemindful painting and drawing where you're not
trying to create a specific thing.It lets your brain rest if you've given
it a problem, you know,and you're desperately thinking of how do I
resolve this thing? How do Iresolve this thing? That's why a lot
of people have great ideas in theshower or when they've gone for a walk,
because, like you just said,you gift that problem to your subconscious
(23:27):
brain and then you relax, andthen you play with your conscious brain and
all the time your subconscious is workingon that stuff creatively and you just don't
know it. And then eureka,boom, you get the idea or you
get the fix or the solve orwhatever it is. So there's a definite
part for kind of hands on makingand hands on activity as part of that
(23:48):
process as well, whether you wantto create a masterpiece or you just want
to use it as a mindfulness practicein order to help you with your creativity
in your daily life. You know, getting how on doodling. How many
of us doodle when we're on zoomcalls and other things. You know,
you're always kind of doodling or making, and it's just a way to ease
(24:10):
your subconscious mind. I think.So there's so many ways you can use
creativity as at all like that,whether it's really like I said, whether
it's to create an amazing thing you'regoing to put in your home and be
proud of, or whether it's justsomething that gets you through your day or
transitions you maybe into the weekend,or gets you over that horrible, big
meeting that you just had and youcan kind of you know, let your
hair down when you get home.All of these things are really valid.
(24:33):
I think as you're talking, I'mhearing behind the scenes of what you're sharing
is possibly people feeling the need toperform. Oh yes that perfect? Ye
yes, yeah, perform. Iwill perform and show everybody I'm doing this
thing, and I will also doit absolutely brilliantly, and there'll be no
(24:56):
way that anybody can judge me.I mean I can hear myself doing that,
you know, on Instagram if weshared as much of the stuff that
goes wrong, and I do sometimes, but our feeds would not look and
people would not think we were thepeople we are, because actually we're all
in that performance mode. And whatI love about art and making is that
(25:18):
it doesn't really require anybody to seeit. You can if you like,
but you don't have to. AndI teach quite a number of sketchbook courses
in person and online. And whatI love about a sketchbook is that you
can close it. You could evenbuy one with a lock on it if
you were that desperate to not showit to anyone, you know. And
a sketch book is really personal,or a sketch journal or a combination or
(25:41):
like a book where you write incollage or whatever that looks like for you,
is because you can close it.It is private if you don't want
to share that with anybody. Youcan make as many mistakes in there as
you like, you can rip thepage out, you can go again.
And I think sketch books and journalsreally offer a place sanctuary for people who
are concerned about being perfect and concernedabout performing because it's a private it's a
(26:06):
private thing. So definitely if that'syou, or if you're having that moment,
you know, I often have thatmoment and I'll go to my sketch
book and just play around, andthen I'll go back to the canvas because
I've kind of let it out andI've got all my agitation out and now
I can, you know, honein on what I actually want to paint.
So yeah, really useful. Thatis such a powerful thought for people
(26:26):
to understand that creativity is for us. Yes, it's not for consumption.
It's primarily a process that we've beengiven by design as creatures that can do
that. It's an expression. Somepeople express it with their frustration, some
(26:52):
people express it with joy. Butit's a language. Creativity is a language,
and I think it is a soulfew language, oh gosha. And
it's a dance too, you know. It's a language and it's a dance
and it's a movement. And mycreativity is not my content. Yes,
I share my art as content onmy social media channels, but it's very
(27:18):
reductive, Very quickly becomes very reductiveif you're literally doing it just to put
content on social media or just tokeep showing you know, your loved ones
and they all go, yeah,it's great, it's great. You know,
it becomes very self serving and veryreductive. So I absolutely agree with
you that creativity is a soul fillingprocess or way of being more than a
(27:41):
process. It was actually my wordfor last year. I have a word
every year, and my word forlast year was soul full, purposefully spelt
with two l's, as in,my soul is full, and how do
I fill up my soul? AndI think that art and creativity just offers
such a unique way for people todo that, and particular for women in
this middle of life where we're inthe messy middle right where like the mush
(28:03):
inside the caterpillar's crystalist, we're notstill a caterpillar, we're not yet a
butterfly. We're kind of disintegrating andrebuilding and going through all that process in
the chrysalist and while we're doing that, What better way than to express all
of that in creative ways that don'thave to mean anything to anyone else,
(28:26):
you know. It's such an outlet. And in the guide that I've put
together, there's one of the exerciseswhere it's about self expression of your pain
and your symptoms and your challenges,which again is scientifically peer reviewed to assist
and help you manage things like discomfortand pain by kind of understanding it and
(28:47):
befriending it through art and expression,and also how that can help you then
explain that to your loved ones orto colleagues, you know. So there
are many ways that art can bepractical for you. As well as making
a picture in a frame, thereare many other ways that it can be
part of your toolkit to kind ofget through and find joy as well.
(29:11):
We don't want to just get through, right, We want to find joy
in this process. The joy piece. It's so hard to explain, but
it's like I would go so faras to say, it's an actual need
that we have in this season ofperimenopause, this transition, this crystalist period
of our lives. It's like amixture of we need to rest from all
(29:36):
of the driving. To some degree, we also need to restore because we
are, like you said, we'redissolving things and we're growing things, and
it's very much a very active seasonin some kind of undefinable ways. Do
you know what I'm trying to express. It's not all happening out there where
(29:57):
people can see it, but it'sour bodies are literally going through this transformation.
And sometimes we're confused about it,right, and sometimes we're frustrated with
it or angry with it or whatever. And everybody's having these different experiences,
but it's a natural process that allwomen throughout millennia have gone through, and
so there's this beauty to it thatmaybe in some cultures, maybe in some
(30:22):
points in history, it was seenfor what it is, and it's this
beautiful, like you said, metamorphosis. But I think in order to fully
express that, we need to leanin, like you're saying, and allow
those those things that are popping up, the curiosities that we have, the
things that we want to do,and allowing ourselves to almost go back to
(30:45):
childhood in a bit and just trywhatever crosses our little minds, you know
what I'm saying, Like and notbeing so judgital on the outcome mm hm,
because you mentioned outcome and that's whereit was perimenopausal brain happening right this
moment. But it's shifting from outcomebased living, which we've needed to do
(31:08):
and have done for so long.It's turning that idea on its head and
saying, I'm doing this just forthe soulfulness of it, the joy of
it, just because that is restorativeto me. Yes, And that's totally
valid and totally okay. It doesn'thave to be. It's kind of a
(31:30):
reprogramming because I think we've all hadsuch a huge list of responsible tasks to
keep doing repetitively every moment of everyday while life is, whether we're parents
or whether we're workers or whatever,we've been doing that coming at art and
creativity now is kind of relearning thatthat program to understand, like you said,
(31:52):
it's not a task just to tickoff and to do. It's actually
a relearning. And like I've said, you know, unfurling or reblooming,
there's something in that which which ispowerful in its gentleness. And I think
you know where I'm coming out withusing art to relieve and ease symptoms and
(32:14):
find joy and kind of reimagine yourvision for your second half of life and
kind of find yourself again. I'mnot saying that if you're in the absolute
clutches of terrible, terrible physical andemotional menopausal symptoms, that that's the right
thing to turn to, because youknow there's medication and you kind of need
(32:34):
help and attention to come down outof the tree. You know, you've
climbed up into this crazy tree becauseyou know there's so much going on for
you. But when you're ready andyou get to that point where maybe you're
exploring your symptoms, or you've gotsome of it under control, or you're
starting to have enough bandwidth and capacityto think, what else is there?
What more can there be to thisprocess, that's the golden moment, I
think where you can start to leaninto your natural creativity and start to look
(32:59):
to inspirations and to different ways ofyou know, creating that as an outlet.
So even if you're listening to thisand you're kind of like, oh
my god, I am so inlike the craziness and the mayhem that I
couldn't even consider picking up stitches ora sketch book or a camera don't panic,
(33:19):
don't worry, because there will bethat moment and it's always there.
It's always there for you to pickit up. So see it as like
this beautiful, this beautiful creative hugwaiting to happen, and whenever you're ready
for it, it's going to bethere, ready for you. And I
think you will be more ready aswell. Do you know what I mean?
Because this metamorphosis that we're talking about, it does seem to be driving
(33:44):
women toward creativity. It's fascinating tome how that, like, okay,
community always comes up, like howimportant it is to have your good community,
you know, and this rest,learning to rest during the season of
life and allowing our bodies to dowhatever they need to do and leaning into
(34:04):
that season and not seeing it asa weakness but understanding this process is doing
something in us and for us.And then that creativity piece, you know,
so many women are finding that whetherit's gardening, cooking, making sour
dough bread, decorating their houses,you know, whatever it is, there's
(34:27):
that drive. I'm seeing it likeyou're identifying how creative this season is.
And I'm talking to women and findingthat they're if they've never technically been creative,
Okay, you know, in thein the formal sense that we all
want to define creativity. Can youdraw? Can you paint? But there's
a there's like a heartbeat of creativitythat's rising in women that you're identifying,
(34:52):
and I think it's really exciting.Oh my gosh, I just love that.
That was so poetic, Gina,there's a heartbeat of creativity rising in
women. I'm gonna I'm trying toremember that. I will use that as
a quote. I love that.And yeah, and I also think off
the back of the pandemic. Iknow it's been four years now, Gosh,
that's gone so quickly, but Ithink off the back of the isolation.
(35:14):
Yeah, the back of the isolation, the challenges, the health issues,
the kind of panic and the timeto do nothing. I think that's
also, you know, helped justraise creativity and enjoyment of creative hobbies massively.
I think I don't know the numbers, but it was absolutely crazy,
(35:34):
like Hobbycraft, the super chain ofhobby stores like Reporters, and four hundred
or six hundred percent increase over COVID. So you saw people kind of making
that sour dough loaf as well asdoing the little five minute workout online,
but it was kind of everybody waslike, what can I do things to
do? So I think there's definitelymore awareness of different things that are out
(35:55):
there, you know. I thinkwomen are more maybe more confident to go
do you know what. I'd loveto try a pot throwing class, or
I'd love to go to the gardensCenter and learn more about growing fruit or
whatever those things are. So Ithink there's definite confidence and availability of creativity
that's now kind of merging. Likeyou said, with that heartbeat that's rising,
(36:16):
there's a need and a desire todo it, but there's also an
availability of it in the world.So I just think that's like the perfect
compliment, isn't it of like perfectmix for magic to happen. It really
is, And I think tapping intothe magic of it, not the expectation
of it, is key as well. Yeah, And no matter what your
(36:40):
beliefs are, whether you're religious ornot religious, or you know, whatever
you think about the world, thereis a definite sort of spirituality to making
that. I also see that asa big trend in my group and network
of women of my age group.I'm seeing people be more creative. I'm
(37:00):
seeing people want to be more free, I'm seeing people want to tap into
mission service and authenticity. And thenI'm also seeing this kind of spiritual reawakening
in a lot of people. Andthose three or four I can't remember how
many I've just said, but thosethree or four big themes are really common
amongst our age group, and Ithink it's because we know that there's going
(37:24):
to be room for us. Ican't think of a better way to describe
it. But kind of, likeI said earlier in the conversation, after
this metamorphosis, there isn't like ababy or a husband at the end of
it necessarily. I mean, hopefullythere are still you know, even my
eighteen year old is still my baby. But what I mean is is that
we'll come out of it kind offor ourselves and independent for ourselves. So
(37:47):
I think, yeah, there's adefinite trend towards that more spiritual, spiritually
rewarding side of creating and making,whether that's on purpose for a specific belief
set or just that flow state thatwe find ourselves in, that wellness that
coming back to the now. Ithink that's a really powerful tool as well
(38:09):
of creativity and making. And that'smy word for this year, by the
way. Now, so yes,what is it I'm leaning into now as
much as possible? Now, Yeah, I love these conversations and I hope
that listeners are really contemplating looking forthose silver linings in this season of life,
(38:31):
like in what ways are we shedding? Because I think we definitely are,
to your analogy of the chrysalis,you know, there are some things
melting away. I feel like it'sa real season of sifting. You know,
It's like our bodies are being sifted, our emotions are being sifted,
even our lives in some ways arebeing sifted. And I think there's kind
(38:53):
of like a need for that pause. I think the perimental pause, mento
pause. I think that word pauseis so key. You know. It's
like our butt when we went frompuberty to menopause, puberty to having a
cycle. Now we're going from cycleback to not having one. So our
(39:14):
body's essentially been through this process.Now we're just doing it in reverse,
and it is a pause to somedegree. There's a certain capacity that we've
always been able to manage that feelslike it's harder to manage now, and
instead of seeing it negatively, howcan we look at look at it and
say, okay, that's you usedthe concept of holding space and making space
(39:37):
in our life. I feel likethe pause part of perimenopause and menopause is
that space. And we've been goingat such a pace. It's hard to
slow down. Yes, you know, but to be creative, right,
that's slowing down mm hmmm hmm.Yeah. And I find that incredibly difficult
(39:58):
to slow down. And you know, even today, I went to a
gallery about an hour away to dropoff a painting for an exhibition, and
then I came back and I knewI was speaking to you in a few
hours later, and I was kindof just walking around the house and like
what should I do? I said, Oh, my gosh, what am
(40:19):
I? I don't know, Idon't know what to do. And then
I said to my husband, Ifeel like I'm wasting this time in between.
I'm just sat here doing nothing,and he went, but you are
doing something because you're recharging as you'redoing what you considered to be nothing.
You clearly need that because otherwise youwouldn't be doing it. So you are
doing something. You know, doingnothing can be doing something. Pausing can
(40:42):
be active for those of us whorequire this. I don't know this this
way of looking at things as productiveor efficient or whatever. You know,
there is there is a productivity innot producing, which I know sounds absolutely
crazy, but you know you can'tdrive your car without servicing it or without
(41:05):
kind of letting the engine call downand not overheat. So it's exactly the
same thing, isn't It's kind ofthat restorative thing that you were talking about.
So, yeah, the pause,the pause is important, and we
can pause, and you know,art and creativity can be RESTful. It
can be gentle. You don't haveto be flinging paint on a massive canvas.
(41:28):
You know, you can take alittle sketchbook and a pencil up to
bed and doodle things and write things. It can be very gentle. So
I think the pause can be avariety of pauses too. It's a reframe,
isn't it. It really is areframe of the life that we've lived
and what does this season require ofme? And what does it not require
(41:52):
of me? And I think thecreativity that you're talking about, Kelly,
is a vehicle to help us workthrough all of that. Yeah, Yeah,
who am I really? And withouttrying to explain that to somebody,
if you don't know yourself, bygoing through a creative making process, you're
(42:13):
exploring who am I really? Fromthe colors you might choose, to the
subject material, to what you mightsay, to how you might make a
mark. All of these things arewho you are really, and that's what
we're exploring. And I think knowingthat and physically experiencing it by creating things
makes you more knowledgeable and experienced ofyourself. It's kind you know, when
(42:37):
you say something is very different tokind of knowing it in your bones.
I don't know if that's an Americanthing, is a very Northern English thing,
like knowing it in your bones,And I think by the act of
creating it helps you know in yourbones, in yourself who you are,
and that I think is something notto be sniffed at in this stage.
(43:00):
You know, yes, we're stillgoing to be confused. No, I'll
probably won't give you all the answers, but goodness, what a tool,
What a powerful tool it is tohelp navigate you know, it's definitely definitely
something worth playing with and seeing whereit takes you. I have so many
thoughts in my head right now,the productivity in the pause. That's a
(43:22):
powerful thought. The soulfulness of creativity, the beauty of the transformation. We're
going through it and reflecting on whatneeds to be left behind. It has
served its purpose and it's a beautifulthing. But we don't have to carry
(43:42):
everything forward. And I think ifI could just express my own joy of
creating it, it's a bit likefinding joy in the way a paint moves
or a color makes me feel right. And so briefly, I want to
touch on the people in video willbe able to see your style of landscape
(44:07):
art behind you. And one ofthe things that attracted me to your art
originally was that wildness that you havein your style. It's the best way
I know how to express it formyself. Right there's an abandon to your
artistic style. And we talked brieflybefore we started the actual podcast that people
(44:30):
are drawn to you because they wantto paint like you, right. They
want to have that same wild abandonand they want to be able to abstract
a landscape or loosen it up orwhatever. And that's a wonderful thing to
explore and to be creative about.But I think greater than that is using
that as a jumping off point forfinding what about that art is speaking to
(44:55):
you and how you can find away to express it in a way that's
your own voice, in your ownexpression of it. Because I think as
people learn to paint, it's thefirst thing we do is imitate the people
we admire, right, But thegoal in this creativity that you and I
are talking about is to get toa place where it becomes an expression of
(45:16):
who you are and where you're at. And it will evolve right as you
Yes, absolutely it doesn't stay then, no, it won't. It won't
ever stay the same, even youknow the really famous masters that have different
periods and different styles of work acrosstheir careers, their painting careers. And
(45:37):
for me, I guess the wildnessof my work is anchored in the places
that I choose to paint. So, as I've said to you, you
know, I'm always in like theCeltic west of the UK. So that's
for the overseas listeners that be likeWales, Cornwall, Scotland, Ireland,
all of those regions to the west. And I am kind of drawn by
(45:58):
wild, empty spaces and and kindof dramatic scenes. And I think it
goes back to my heritage, growingup on the traveling fair and always wondering
what's over the next hill. Iwalk a lot, I hike a lot,
I camp, you know, Igo out and about and I experience
all the weathers. I very rarelypaint places that I haven't stood in and
(46:19):
felt, so I'm always very rootedand grounded in that sense of place.
But it's not be because I'm justmentally choosing that for myself. It's because
it's a part of my character anda part of my heritage and a part
of what lights me up and makesmagic inside me. So that will be
very different for every person listening.Even if we painted the same scene,
(46:39):
we would both paint it incredibly different. And in my work, you know,
I like to let things dribble,and I use inks, and then
I use really big brushes and abig, bold square mark on the top,
and then I'll use my fingers alot. And I'm always painting past
(47:00):
ways and song lines, if youlike. I don't know if you're aware
of song lines, but kind ofancient roots. And I find that even
if there's no path or anything inmy painting. I'll draw dribbly lines that
feel like paths and sort of waysinto the painting. So there's always something
in the creativity that you have expressedthat is intrinsically you and cannot be copied,
(47:24):
even if it was almost an exactreplica. And I feel with the
abandon with the wildness, with thebold color choices and the expressive style,
that yeah, I am seen asquite a confident, sociable, outgoing person.
But then I also feel more confidentbecause I paint confidently. So you
(47:47):
get a lovely feedback loop from yourpersonality and your heart and soul informing your
creativity and your artwork. But thenalso your artwork helps elevate and inform your
heart and soul and who you are. And it's just this wonderful upward spiraling
loop of like elevation when you reallyget into that harmony with what you're creating.
(48:08):
So yeah, for me, Ithink I love wild and abandoned.
I love that description. I'll takethat any day of the week. I
love it. Thank you. That'sgreat. That's exactly why I was like
this artist, ah, I loveher art so much. And that was
a while back, But I wouldlove to have you share maybe three key
(48:29):
takeaways. What are three things youwould like people to think about or consider
in terms of incorporating creativity in thisseason of life. I would say,
first of all, you deserve it, and that can be a really hard
thing to accept service to ourself orkindness to ourselves. So the first thing
(48:51):
would be, you deserve this timeto be creative. You deserve to have
time, whether that's every day orevery weekend or whatever that looks like for
you. You deserve that time toand I will use waste because it's frivolous
on purpose. You deserve that timeto waste it or spend it however you
choose, and that's okay. Sofirst of all, accept the gift,
(49:14):
you know, because we all findit really easy to give to other people
and not for ourselves. So thatwould be my first thing is kind of
yeah, you deserve the time.The second is allow yourself to play.
And just because we're over forty,over fifty, over sixty, who cares,
you know, we're still those littlegirls inside and you you know,
(49:36):
you talked about it earlier. Wekind of this reverting to the freedom of
childhood, and it's like, becurious splash around, use your fingers,
choose a color just because you loveit. Who cares if it's not on
trend? You know, give yourselfthat permission to play and be little Gina,
be little Kelly. Just go forit. That would be my second
(49:57):
point. And then my third pointis very much what we've alway he talked
about, but I think it's soimportant to bring it back is do it
for yourself, and if something beautifulcomes of it that you're so proud of
that you want to put in agallery amazing. If something comes of it,
that's so ugly, but you lovethe process amazing. If something comes
of it, that's kind of okay, and you're going to learn and do
(50:19):
it again amazing, Like it reallydoesn't matter. Just do it for yourself.
So yeah, feel as though youdeserve the time play and go back
to childhood expression and let your innerchild out and then do it for yourself
rather than doing it for that finalperfect moment. Those would be my three
key things. M Wow, Ilove those so much. Kelly. How
(50:43):
can people find you? Where areyou and what are your handles? Well,
you can often find me walking inthe Peak district. So if you're
a Derbyshire loving hiker. You'll oftensee me there, but I don't think
most of your listeners are going todo that, So yeah, come and
find met. My website is justmy name, so it's Kellyherick dot com
(51:04):
and you can find me on thesocial media channels are all the same.
It's at Kellyherrick Art, So comeand find me. I love to chat
and be in community with people andvery approachable and yeah, I love I
love to find new people, socome and say hi. And if you
want the guide that I've mentioned andthis practical download, it's totally free and
(51:25):
you're going through perimenopause or menopause,I've created for those on screen. I've
got a copy here. I've createdthe meno Relief Toolkit. It's a creative
practice, it's a guide and youcan get that at Kellyheerick dot com on
my homepage and basically it's got somebrilliant symptoms checklist and then it's got all
of these amazing sort of art andmaking activities for each of those symptom types.
(51:50):
So go and get a copy ofthat and put it in the hands
of as many women as we can, because why not, let's tool everybody
up as much as we can.It's a modern renaissance. That's what we're
creating. Yes, yeah, amenaissance. That was a creative spark in
that moment. That was fantastic.I know you can have that one.
(52:15):
I'll like you well. Kelly.I want to thank you so much for
being on the show today and justfor sharing your perspective. It's so enriching
to have other women for me,other artists as well, to speak into
this sphere of creativity and perimenopause andjust having a different take on it and
the way that you're passionate about it, the connection that you bring to it,
(52:37):
and you're very approachable in your art. Thank you so much for what
you do in the world and formaking this connection between menopause and creativity because
you're so on point and I thinkwhat you're doing can change the world.
So thank you so much. Oh, You're so welcome. It's been a
joy and an absolute pleasure. Fantasticfriends today. If you find us on
(52:58):
YouTube, just look down below.I'll have the links to Kelly there,
but if you want to head tomy website, you can go to www.
Dot Feminine roadmap dot com. ForwardSlash episode three six six, and
I will have the links there.This is one of those conversations that we
want to keep stirring, the potof women in midlife finding their voice in
(53:20):
creativity, whatever that looks like foryou. This is such a creative season
that pulse keeps rising in the womenthat I talk to, and I want
to encourage you to hold a spacefor something. Anything doesn't matter what it
is. Just get curious, likeKelly said, go back to your childhood's
sense of play and curiosity. Don'tjudge it, don't worry about showing it
(53:43):
to anybody, don't worry about theoutcome. It really is the creative process
that we need to experience to growas women and to make this transition in
a way more rich. We findourselves at the end of that creative process.
It's the best way I know howto express it. It's so important
for our mental, emotional, andsoul health to find a way to create
(54:05):
in this season of life. Soreach out for that free resource from Kelly.
It'll be in the links, Sodon't worry about it. I've got
you, and I look forward tosharing more inspirational people and stories and strategies
with you in the weeks to cometake care of my friends. Bye bye,
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