Figure Eights (A Music Podcast) - Episode 65 w/Matt Keating (Bastards of Fine Arts)

Matt Keating is a fantastic songwriter from New York City. We talk about his solo career, Steve Earle, living near the World Trade Center, opening for the Cranberries and ummmm…DAVID BOWIE! You can catch him on Thursday at the Driftwood in MPLS with his band “The Bastards of Fine Arts”. Great guy and fun conversation.

Episode Transcript

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Speaker 3 (00:54):
An auto parts. You are listening to the Figure eights podcast.
I'm your host Nick Leet from the band High on
Stress of Minneapolis, Minnesota, and today's guest is Matt Keating.

(01:19):
He is a songwriter from New York City and really
fun conversation great guy. High on Stress actually opened for
him years ago at the four hundred Bar here in Minneapolis.
So it's good to catch up and learn about his
career opening for the Cranberries and recording for Alias Records

(01:39):
and what was the other thing? Oh yeah, opening for
David Bowie. How many people can say that. Great conversation
and other notes here. I have created finally in Instagram
page as well as a Facebook specific page for the
Figure Eights podcast. I've been operating out my own pages

(01:59):
for years and I will continue to do so. However,
if you could do me a favorite and follow both
on Instagram and Facebook, that would be awesome. And if
you could just like and follow on your podcast listening devices,
that would be great too. So spreak your Apple, Spotify

(02:21):
anywhere you find this podcast. So thank you for that,
And without further ado, I bring you Matt Keaty. So
where are you at in Manhattan? Where do you live?

Speaker 4 (02:34):
I'm in the West Village.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Oh nice. Cool.

Speaker 5 (02:37):
I've been here for like twenty five years, so I
couldn't have gotten in here.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
I got in here when you still could, and then
I just.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Now you're just hold on tight.

Speaker 5 (02:45):
Yeah, I don't know, it's weird, it works, it works
for me right now.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, No, that's a great area, very cool. Well are
you all packed up and ready to come to Minneapolis.

Speaker 5 (02:58):
I'm not packed, but you know, I will be like
we I don't know, like the airplanes these days, like
you go on and it's like you get in, it's
like that does not include anything except okay.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
So I was like, well, I should probably bring.

Speaker 5 (03:12):
Something, so like, you know, I'm just you know, but
I'm going to keep it really light.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
And I saw you doing like Delta, where are you flying?

Speaker 4 (03:21):
We're doing sun Country?

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Okay. Sun Country is not bad.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
It's not bad.

Speaker 5 (03:25):
It's yeah, I've done it before actually through the Midwest. Yeah,
so it's yeah, it's not bad.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
It was pretty cheap and it's direct, so it's it's awesome.

Speaker 6 (03:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (03:34):
And the weather looks like it's going to be good
for both there and back, so that's good.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
I was looking at it. It's gonna be eighty four
degrees on Thursday.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
So I saw eighty seven and I was like shit,
you know, because you think Minneapolis.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
I was like, oh, should I bring my winter coat?
And I'm like, oh wait.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
We barely had snow last year, which was weird. Last
week we had a couple of days that were highs
in the sixties, which I'm like, okay, well here it comes,
we're certing, and then this week again it's like summer again.
So I don't know what to believe anymore.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah, it's pretty weird.

Speaker 5 (04:08):
It was horrible in New York all summer, two months hot,
NonStop hot, humid, disgusting, horrible, just like, yeah, it was terrible, and.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
Then it just seemed to pass.

Speaker 5 (04:22):
And now we always get like a beautiful fall and like,
so far, so good.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
So yeah, I've been there in September it can be
very nice. I've found Oh.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
It's the best.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
You know.

Speaker 5 (04:31):
That's like the classic thing is like September eleventh was
the perfect day.

Speaker 6 (04:35):
You know.

Speaker 5 (04:35):
It's like it's always like you know, you know, whenever
they talk about that, they'd always bring up how it
was like the weather was absolutely because the weather is
mostly shitty in New York, like for most of the years,
like the summer and the winters are horrible, and there's
like this perfect time between like September after Labor Day
and like November one, when it's just like perfect, awesome, yeah,

(05:01):
and then everything else just kind of sucks, you know.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
So you've bet you were in New York at that time.

Speaker 5 (05:06):
Now, I was right out the window. You can see,
Oh my god, there they have the tower. You can
see the replacement Freedom.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Wow. And you were living there at the time.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
Yeah, I was as somebody.

Speaker 5 (05:18):
Actually, one of my students brought it up because she
was a she was a counselor during night, so she
asked me if I was there, and I'm like, yeah,
I saw saw them.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
Fall in real time. Wow.

Speaker 5 (05:31):
Own eyes holding my daughter like in my arms on
Sixth Avenue with the whole crowd of people.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Wow. That's terrifying.

Speaker 4 (05:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
It's the weird thing about time, right, It's like, what
are we at, like twenty three? Is it twenty three years?

Speaker 4 (05:48):
Twenty three years?

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, it seems like it was like a few years
ago to me.

Speaker 5 (05:54):
Well, I you know, it's that classic thing where like
you know, you reach a certain age and everything's just new,
Like you know, it's like I still think like Imperial Bedroom.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
Is a new album.

Speaker 5 (06:04):
Yeah, Like that's like like in my head, I'm like, yeah,
that that you know, when Elvis kind of went off
the punk and like really expanded, you know, it's like, yeah,
that's that new album of his from forty years ago.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, well, so in terms of that, you know, we
were kind of messaging back and forth about the last
time you were in Minneapolis. Yeah, and played the four
hundred bar and High on Stress opened that show.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
Yeah I remember. Yeah, that was.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Six sixteen years ago.

Speaker 5 (06:37):
Once again, it was because it was during the Obama election.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
Yes, yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (06:45):
In fact, I think it's a debate that night that
we played, because my drummer was like, I really.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
Like to get back to the hotel room to watch
the debate.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Oh boy, sure, I wish we could watch those debates again.

Speaker 5 (07:00):
Out.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
It was such a such a simple time.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
Looking forward to tomorrow. That's what's at that. Should I
tell you how this trip came about.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, let's do that. Then we're gonna circle back way
in the time machine.

Speaker 5 (07:12):
Well so yeah, like I don't know, well this this
this kind of circles back in the time machine. So
when I had my records out on Alias in the nineties,
you probably remember that station Rev One five.

Speaker 4 (07:24):
Yeah, right, remember that station in Minneapolis.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
It was it was before my time, but it's it
it morphed into other ones.

Speaker 5 (07:34):
Yeah, So like they've played the hell out of my
record in Minneapolis. So when I would play there, I
would get really good crowds, and then I don't know,
I just kind of like the touring thing. I kind
of like lost the I went on a couple of
tours and kind of lost it and didn't go back.
But then I still get I still get people who
who know me from Minneapolis because of that station. And

(07:55):
there's this guy who lives there who went during the pandemic.
I was doing these live streams and he would tune
into all of them, and he was really nice and
he just kind of was like, you know, he saw
that I have this new band, Bastards of Fine Arts,
and then he was like, and I saw that we
were touring a little. So he's like, if everyone to
do a house concert, you know, come on out, Like

(08:16):
we'll love to have you. We have this yearly thing
in the backyard. So so he kind of made it
possible for us to come.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
And then it was kind of so this band, Bastards
of Fine Arts is with this guy.

Speaker 5 (08:27):
Steve Mayon, a songwriter who used to live in Minneapolis
and had a band. He had a band there in
like he gave me the name of the It was
like in like the early nineties.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Let me see what it is. Yeah, oh yeah, it
was rain Tribe, that was it.

Speaker 5 (08:44):
And he played in the Minneapolis area between ninety two
and ninety four and he actually was a receptionist at
Paisley Park and he like, oh wow.

Speaker 4 (08:53):
And he actually his roommate, this guy, Michael.

Speaker 5 (08:56):
Koppleman, was an engineer.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
For Yeah, didn't need to. I think he did Graffiti
Bridge maybe some other.

Speaker 5 (09:04):
Ones probably, So when he heard that we got this offer,
he was like, oh dude, awesome.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, Prince Laura. You dropped Prince Laura on me. I can.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
But so he was like, yeah, you know, we could
stay with him and you know, recorded him and I
was like okay.

Speaker 5 (09:25):
So then and then he ended up getting us this
gig on the Thursday.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
What is it called.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
So now we have two shows and we.

Speaker 5 (09:33):
Have the recordings in between, and it's kind of gonna
turning into a fun little Minneapolis like trip.

Speaker 4 (09:40):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Yeah, very cool.

Speaker 5 (09:42):
That's the way to do it, rather than just go
into a town for one night and then keep hitting
different time like pick one town and be there for
like five days.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
And you know I did that last it actually it
was a year ago. This last weekend in Atlanta because
I've got a buddy who kind of came up in
the music scene in Atlanta who lives in Charlestown. And
then his they were kind of a they were called
Billy Pilgrim. They were on Atlantic in the nineties. Yeah,

(10:10):
and uh, the.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
Other the Vonnegut Wreck book.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, yep. And Christian still lives in Atlanta. Goes back
and forth between that in Nashville because he's in that
country band, sugar Land. So we ended up going out
there and did just for a few days hanging out,
same sort of a thing, did a couple of shows,
did mostly just hanging out and playing in the basement.
It was just just a blast. So that is the

(10:36):
way to do it, it's I think.

Speaker 5 (10:37):
So I've had that experience in Nashville as well and
like it and different times.

Speaker 4 (10:42):
It's a nice way to go.

Speaker 5 (10:43):
It's like it's better than just city city city because
then you're always in a van and like you get.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Fat, you got to be either long enough that the coffee
shop person recognizes it. So, so were you a Boston
Boston guy growing up?

Speaker 5 (11:00):
What was your You know, my family moved around a lot,
so I was I lived in a lot of different areas.
But I did live in Boston when I from between. Yeah,
let's see, my family moved there in the late sixties,
and I was there for a couple of years. Then
we moved to San Francisco, and then we moved back
to Boston, and I was there until middle school, when.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
We moved to Pittsburgh.

Speaker 5 (11:26):
But but what happened was after I went to college,
I was in a band and we all moved to Boston.
So I ended up living there for five years from
eighty eighty five to ninety and so I, you know,
I you know, lived there when I was a kid,
so it so a lot of people kind of got

(11:47):
it that I was from there. But I did spend
a lot of time there, But I've spent most of
my life in New York City?

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Got it? Were you there around the same time? Kevin
Salem was there. Do you know Kevin at all?

Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yeah? He plays on my first album There You Go.
He played.

Speaker 5 (12:04):
In fact, he's kind of part of the reason I
moved to New York because, yeah, he was in Dump Truck.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, and uh, I.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
Had this band called Circle Sky in Boston and we used.

Speaker 5 (12:15):
To play with them, and and then we broke up,
and then I met Kevin around that time. And then
he started dating a friend of mine, Mary Lawson, who
was from the band Matta Rose and uh yeah, and
they were like forming this kind of like musical collective
thing in Brooklyn. And so I was in Boston, I
and I was kind of at loose ends, and I

(12:36):
just came down to you know, play with them and
like with all those people, and and then, uh, I
actually I think I met I think I met. Yeah,
He's one part of the reason I met this guy,
Adam Lassies, who produced who worked with him, and he
produced three of my own read yeah, and he.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
And Kevin. He worked with Kevin a lot.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
And then so when I got my so I actually
played my first solo show in New York.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
With Kevin on guitar and it was great.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
And then when I got the deal and I made
the first record, we had Kevin come in and play guitar.
So he plays on that first record and he plays
he played on the single from my second record, Makehappiness,
and yeah, and so I've known, I'm I haven't.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
Been in touch with him as much.

Speaker 5 (13:22):
He lives upstate, but yeah, the Woodstock area. Yeah, but
I love his work. I love his I've always loved
his guitar playing. He's like, really just one of my
favorite guitarists.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
So I was looking at him like, I bet he
knows Kevin based on kind of proximity and time frames
and all that. So, yeah, I Kevin was actually on
this podcast years ago now, and it was like a
six hour episode. It was the first time I ever
spoke to the guy, and it was don't worry, I'm
not going to keep you for six hours. But we

(13:53):
just kept going and hit it off. It was a
great time. And he's actually we co wrote a song
and kept throwing some tracks back and forth lately too.
He's a great guy.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, he's really cool.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yeah, awesome. So you grew up all over the place,
and so your music career, so as I get really
started in Boston for the most part.

Speaker 5 (14:14):
Yeah, that was yeah, well actually it started we went
to I went to Ithaca College in Ithaca, New York,
and I had a band there with childhood friends and
and we kind of like we were together for like
ten years and we were based there, and then we
moved to Boston together and that was the whole big

(14:37):
It was kind of like this band thing that I
was in, yeah for like ten years.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
And did you all live together? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (14:44):
We all we had a band house, did the whole thing.
We opened for David Bowie. That was our big like
claim to fame.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, that's not bad.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
We actually opened for it was Tin Machine.

Speaker 5 (14:56):
I don't know if you know, they had on like
two shows. They were doing like two shows. They were
doing three shows like New York, La London. And our
manager at the time submitted our tape. Uh worked for
Ron de Elsner in New York, and she submitted a
tape to.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
Him, and we got a call and he was like,
come to New York. You're opening for both.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
And you're like, you're lying to me right now, aren't you. Wow,
that's amazing funny.

Speaker 5 (15:25):
The story is is that you know, this is kind
of a bittersweet because that manager just passed away like
two weeks. So this woman, Teresa Chambers who was she
actually managed my solo my solo career for my first
album with Alias, and she booked the Mercury Lounge and
the Bowery Ballroom in New York and she managed a
lot of bands, like a lot of Irish bands. Something

(15:50):
happens and hot house flowers. But anyway, so she she
was managing us, and she came to see us play
the rock and Roll the BCN Rock and Roll Rumble
in Boston, and uh, it was just, I don't know,
if you're familiar with it, it's like this battle of the bands,
and I just hate battles of the band.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
I hate music competitions. They're not sports.

Speaker 5 (16:13):
I just remember I just got really like had a
Replacements moment and got really drunk and threw it and
like the whole thing was like a horrible memory. Yeah,
but I was so depressed, Like we were all depressed.
And we woke up the next morning and she had
driven down to see the show, and then we all
went to bed, and she drove back to New York

(16:35):
for her job at like eight in the morning. So
we're in bed. She's actually we've been sleeping. She drove
back to New York, submitted us to Bowie, got us
on the gig, and then the phone keeps ringing. And
this is back in the eighties, so it was before
you know, cell phones, and the answering was fighting contact.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
In five seconds, she.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
Just keeps screaming, pick up that fucking.

Speaker 7 (16:55):
Phone and We're like like trying to just go away,
go away, And finally we.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
Pick up the phone and she's like, get in a
fucking band.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
You're opening for David Bowie, you know, And wow, did
you believe it at first? Were you just like you're
fucking with me?

Speaker 4 (17:14):
No? I knew if it was from her, it was real.

Speaker 7 (17:16):
And and so yeah, that was did you get to
meet Bowie or was Bowie kind of off in Bowie Land?

Speaker 5 (17:24):
I did it, but the guitarists and the band did.
And supposedly he said he liked our band.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
That was the nice there you go. That's all you
need for life, right? I mean it.

Speaker 5 (17:36):
I mean, I have to say like walking the crowd
really liked it. It was really one of those situations
where we'd been either for many years and we were
kind of on the verge of breaking up and and so,
but we've been we had worked really hard for a
long time, and it was one of those situations where
walking up the steps to play and she kind of

(17:56):
was like, hey, listen, you're unannounced, an unknown band opening
for Bowie and the audience doesn't expect you.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
They could be cruel. I was like, oh, okay, we.

Speaker 5 (18:10):
Walk up and you know, the place is sold out,
packed full, and you know, and.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
I remember that they had gotten us the Talking Heads.

Speaker 5 (18:23):
Her and her boyfriend at the time who did sound
got us the Talking Heads guitar tech. And I'd never
had a guitar tech before, so and I only had
one guitar. I had no backup, so I was so
nervous during the first song. I didn't break one string.
I broke two strings on the first.

Speaker 4 (18:41):
Song opening for Bowie.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Oh my God.

Speaker 5 (18:44):
But I was so charged up from I was singing
the first song. It was one of mine, so I
was just so the sound like through a PA like
that in that situation was so intense that I didn't
even care.

Speaker 4 (18:58):
I was like, I don't even know how to deal
with this situation.

Speaker 5 (19:01):
But so we finished it and they roared approval and
it was like, went over great. And then I literally
the guy picked up my guitar and twenty seconds later
handed me two guitar strings changed in tune back like
m boom.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
We just did the rest of this se I think.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
I've had a guitar tech on my first band. We
opened for Dog Star Keanu Reeves band, Yeah, and Keanu
Reeves guitar tech took one look at my guitar with
the strings dangling up and he was appalled and he
was like, give me that, and he fixed it all

(19:42):
up and he he helped us out that night, and
I'm like, wow, it's kind of nice to have somebody
over there. And of course I never break strings.

Speaker 5 (19:51):
Broke a strings, right, you're gonna it's it's the nerves
thing because I never break strings either.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
And I don't know, it was it was pretty, uh
it was.

Speaker 5 (20:01):
It was kind of but you know, I don't think
only only people like us can appreciate the magic of
a guitar tech. You, I mean, because it's every musician's
worst nightmare. You're gonna like, something's gonna go wrong at
your big show and you're gonna be screwed, you know.
And I have to say there was a time I
actually on that from when my first album came out.

(20:23):
I opened for the Cranberries and I played in Philly.
We had a great show, and the next night we
played at the Paradise in Boston and I was a
three piece. I had a three piece, so it was
just me and a bassic drum. So I was the
only guitar, and I had the guitar like going through.
I had like two amps like on either side of

(20:44):
the stage, and it was an amazing sound. But something
had gone wrong with the connection in my in my jack.
So in the first song of a sold out to
start going a K.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
So I was like, we're looking at each other.

Speaker 5 (21:02):
And I didn't have a guitar tech for this show,
and I didn't have a backup. Like I was like
young and an idiot, and and like all I could
figure to do was if I stood in one really weird,
awkward position, then it wouldn't do it again. But because
I was doing that, I looked like the most uptight
musician in the history.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
Of the world. Yeah, and people just were looking at
me like what is with this guy?

Speaker 3 (21:30):
And I'm like, I'm trying to save your ears, that's all. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:34):
So I definitely have had had both.

Speaker 5 (21:36):
And it was so upsetting because the night before we
had an amazing show.

Speaker 4 (21:40):
So I was like kind of riding high and oh,
this is gonna be great and this is my old
home town.

Speaker 5 (21:45):
But you know what's interesting was that the Paradise, which
is the exact pay stage where I had the bad gig,
for the BC and rumble. So I have a feeling
that I'm allergic to the stage. You know. I think
there's certain people that for some reason, certain stages freaked.

Speaker 4 (21:58):
Them out and they yeah, it can't you know, have
a good show.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
That's that's disturbing. Have you ever seen that Tom Hanks
movie that thing?

Speaker 6 (22:07):
You do?

Speaker 7 (22:09):
You know?

Speaker 4 (22:10):
I never saw it.

Speaker 5 (22:10):
And here's the thing is, I know I knew Adam
Slessinger and Mike fial I know Mike Field, and I
knew Adam Slessinger much better. And who wrote that song
and a great song.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
It's a great, great song that was such a shame
about Adam. Yeah, yeah, terrible.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yeah that movie though, there's a scene in there where
they're coming up and they have a show where everything
goes wrong. The PA's feeding back, the mics are the
high hat stand gets knocked over, and anybody who's ever
been in a band can watch that and just laugh
and cringe because you're like, oh, yeah, there it is,
that's the night everything was going so well.

Speaker 5 (22:47):
I still have nightmares like that. I literally is my
worst nightmare. And it's like the same I'm sure you
have the same dream where you.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
Like it's the Huge show.

Speaker 5 (22:55):
It's like thousands of people they're waiting for you, and
and something is just not working, and you keep trying
to fix it, and hours are going by and people
are getting angry, and then you can't figure it out,
and then they start filing out and then you finally
walk out. But then you plug it in and it's
not working, and then they all just turn up their
noses and.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
That's horrifying. Oh god. Yeah, you gotta see that movie.
You'll love it because they it's so well I just can't.

Speaker 4 (23:26):
I know, I saw it a long time ago, but
I've got to see it again.

Speaker 5 (23:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
It popped up recently on streaming when I was like
flipping through and I'm like, oh, click, and I watched
it for the first time in a while. I'm like,
I remember why I liked that would be so much.
And the song it's funny because I'm sure you have
this problem whenever there's a movie about music, it's like
you pick at it. You're like, he's not playing real
chords or it's so obvious. I'm like, it's so well done.

(23:55):
It's so like everything looks good, sounds good. The song's
brilliant because even like there's that Daisy six Daisy Jones
and the sixth.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
Oh yeah, I haven't seen that.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
I've been kind of scared entertaining, and the songs are fine,
but they're generic. So I so like when you look
at something like that thing you do, you're like, that
is a brilliant song that could have been a hit
for anyone.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
True.

Speaker 5 (24:21):
And you know, Adam Sussinger wrote all those songs for
that show Crazy Ex Girlfriend.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Have you seen that show?

Speaker 3 (24:26):
No, I haven't seen that.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
I recommend it highly. It is amazing.

Speaker 5 (24:31):
I swear to god, I didn't know what to expect
with something called Crazy Ex Girlfriend, but literally it, I mean,
he is so brilliant on it. He wrote all those
songs or he was the musical director. I think he
co wrote them with the woman who started And I
mean I just kept getting consistently blown away by everything.
Everything they would come up with was clever, smart, unpredictable. Really,

(24:56):
it was just it was it was an amazing And
there's like one hundred and sixties songs or something like that.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
That guy was quite a writer. Yeah, crazy, So you're
you're opening for Bowie and the band is about to
break up, probably from all living in the same house together,
I assume.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Yeah, yeah, the same partners.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
Fleetwood Mac. Yeah, it was Jones the.

Speaker 4 (25:24):
Back energy there. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
There were some rumors going on us going around. Yeah yeah,
So I did that whole thing to you, living with
the band who not recommended, But when you're young and
you can't afford much, it's what you can do. So
I get why it happens. So is that when you
went solo, did you start a new band after that,
or how did the solo career.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
Start after that band broke up? I?

Speaker 5 (25:49):
Uh, I actually right away I decided my career path
was going to be go from like opening like being
in a band opening for Bowie to being like a
stream musician.

Speaker 4 (26:00):
That was my career path.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Like I was like, I've got a great idea, so
that's your trajectory.

Speaker 5 (26:09):
So I had this girlfriend I met who was going
to Europe and she was like, you want to come
with me. I'm like, okay, So I I traded in
my Fender Twin on a mouse amp and I like
and I brought my Takamini and I just started setting
up like in front of like you know. We went
to the Fringe Festival in Edinburgh, and that was my

(26:32):
first time skiing, and I kind of really loved it.
I loved playing for strangers and like. And then we
went to Amsterdam and I lived on I lived there
for a couple of months, playing daily in front of
the Central Station, and I just kept.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
And my plan was I was just going to keep going.

Speaker 5 (26:51):
And I kind of ran out of money and and
I kind of reality kind of hit me in a
major way. So I came back to Boston. My sister
was living there and I lived. I kind of was
sleeping on her floor. And then that was when I started,
you know, playing with like Kevin, I think a little bit,

(27:13):
and Mary and some other people.

Speaker 4 (27:15):
And then they they had something going.

Speaker 5 (27:18):
On in New York, so I just came down and
I visited them, and then somebody had a room in
an apartment, so I was like, I'll take it.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
And then I was just here and then I mean
it got weird.

Speaker 5 (27:29):
There was definitely a couple of years where it was
really hit or miss, and you know those late twenties
time of you know, dark period. But somehow I got
introduced to Adam Lassies and and he had a studio
in Philadelphia, and I started taking the train to visit him,

(27:51):
and we just kept recording, and I at a certain
point I put together kind of a demo tape and this,
I mean, these these terms probably sounds so antiquated to kids.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Now.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
Why didn't you just have a TikTok?

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Like, why didn't you just have a move with a
song in the background? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (28:09):
Yeah, But so you know, I kind of liked the
romance of those days.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yea too.

Speaker 5 (28:16):
But I did this thing that I I had this
idea and someone had told me about this entertainment lawyer,
and I was actually out with some friends at the
New Do you remember the New Music Seminar? Yeah, it

(28:36):
was like the it was before the CMJ Music Marathon,
but it was a kind of the big music, big
wig industry thing in New York, where everybody would play
and all the industry people come and look for people
to sign and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
And I remember I went to the knitting factory to
see the jigglow Ons. Do you remember the jigs?

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Remember the name?

Speaker 4 (28:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (28:57):
And and Adam new them and I knew them a
little and we were just kind of talking and there
was this lawyer there and he's like he introduced himself
and I didn't really say who I was, and I
just he's like, have you heard anything good?

Speaker 4 (29:11):
I went, have you heard this guy? Matt Keating? He
was like, this tape is blowing my mind. I'm like,
so good, I can't believe it.

Speaker 5 (29:20):
Like and I literally did that thing that you hear
like people do, and I did it and I gave
it to him and the next day I get a
call and he was like, yeah, somebody gave me your tape.

Speaker 4 (29:32):
It's like amazing. And he was.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
He was so drunk and so out of it that
when he finally met me, he didn't even put it
together that I was.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
That's the fear is He's like, wait a minute.

Speaker 5 (29:43):
But I was kind of like whatever. I was like, what,
what's the worst that could happen? So then he was like,
I think I can get you a deal and he
he ended up.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
He ended up.

Speaker 5 (29:56):
He was in LA and he got it to this
label ALIAS that was a pretty well funded operation and
had great taste and.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Had great records on there.

Speaker 5 (30:07):
Yeah, and this woman, Delight Jenkins her name now is
not Jenkins' Delight Hanover and she she signed me. So
he got her to sign me, and and he he
kind of like did an amazing deal for it.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
I mean it was like this amazing deal.

Speaker 5 (30:23):
And then right after I signed the deal, he calls
me up and he was like, oh, well, I got
good news and bad news.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
He's like, well, I I can't.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
I can't be your lawyer anymore because I'm now your
A and R man.

Speaker 4 (30:40):
She she was so impressed with the work I did.

Speaker 5 (30:42):
She hired me to be A and R at the label,
and I was like, because this guy was crazy.

Speaker 6 (30:49):
Oh no, oh man, So like, so this wasn't good news,
wasn't He thought it was good news, but it wasn't.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
And he kind of terrorized me the whole thing on
my first album. But and then I was convinced they
were going to drop me. And then I finally like
a year later CMJ, I did a show in New
York and she was there and I was like, yeah,
well you're probably gonna drop me, right She goes, no,
I'm keeping you.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
I fired him. So she fired the lawyer guy.

Speaker 5 (31:21):
And then I stayed with them through the nineties until
like ninety eight.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
I think it's like the first story where the A
and R guy gets fired and then the artististics.

Speaker 5 (31:31):
I know, right, No, it was a there was a biziz,
you know, because it was an indie label and she
was in. Yeah, it was a great musical taste and
she really she cared about.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
Artists and that's rare.

Speaker 5 (31:44):
And you know when they they paid tour support and
they got I got videos on MTV and you know,
they did good promotion and still people know my work,
like I mean, definitely on a cult level, but it's
not you know, there are worse things. You know, as
we all get older, there's less and less of those people.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
It's it's such a weird time and music. It's you know,
it's I think there's a beauty. There's definitely a beauty
to the old way that I miss in. But I
think nowadays it's almost easier to get heard. But because

(32:25):
it's easier to get heard, there's just so much like.

Speaker 5 (32:29):
Let's just put it this way, it's easier to get
heard and harder to get paid.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
I think that is that sums it up perfectly. It's
like to.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
Get paid and harder to get hurd.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
Because now, like you know, you can record at home
if you want to, like, if you have the gear,
you can get your stuff on streaming. Do you not
get paid, you know, and I don't know it's it's
and the venues just all kind of come and go.
Minneapolis's you know, First Avenue still running strong and the
turf and all that. The four hundred Bar is gone,

(33:03):
which is.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
Too that goo.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
They sold it, So this is a weird story. And
I don't know exactly what happened, but they sold it,
and that place was around forever, like everybody played there.
In fact, I saw like a picture online the other
day of Weezer downstairs in that basement, remember the concrete basement,
and it was like weez are in like nineteen ninety four,
like standing down there, and I was like, Wow, Weezer

(33:31):
played at the four hundred Bar. That's crazy. And they
sold it, and then they were going to open up
a new four hundred bar at the Mall of America, Wow,
which made no sense in my mind and anyone else's,
because I think they put up like a sign up
that it was on the top floor and they were
going to have like a music venue up there, and

(33:53):
then it just didn't open and it went away. And
I don't know the details on why that didn't happen,
but it was a weird idea the four hundred bars
not very Mall of America esque.

Speaker 5 (34:08):
Yeah, no, they should have called it like, you know,
the Mall of Russia or something like that.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
So yeah, a lots changed. So you you were on
that line, you did what three or four records?

Speaker 5 (34:22):
I did three records for Alias through ninety one to
ninety seven, okay, and then I.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
What happened?

Speaker 5 (34:35):
Oh yeah, I had a manager who kind of funded
a record that ended up getting Was.

Speaker 4 (34:44):
That the one that got picked up by uh?

Speaker 5 (34:47):
Yeah, they know that was the one? Yeah, it got
picked up by Alan McGee. Do you know who Alan McGee?

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (34:53):
Yes, yes. I had this guy who.

Speaker 5 (34:57):
An English guy worked for a distributor who liked my
music and contacted me and said you should come to
England and play some shows. So I went there to
London and played some shows. I met a lot of people,
and then when I made this record, I sent it
to him and then he actually had gotten a job
working for Alan had closed Creation and started a label

(35:19):
called pop Tones, which put out like the.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
Hoives and some other cool stuff.

Speaker 5 (35:25):
And you know, he called me, He's like, yeah you
want he wants to put it out, So yeah, so
he put that out and that was great. I went
to London. That was actually right before nine to eleven.
I actually toured England. I toured London. I played around
London a lot, did a bunch of shows. The thing
we were talking about going to a city. I went
there for like a week and a half I think,

(35:46):
or maybe two weeks and played tons of shows and
it was going really well. I got good reviews in
like the London Times and the Sunday Times and the
Telegram is that the Telegraph, Yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
A bunch of different mag at that time. It was
kind of cool. And played the twelve Bar there and
had great stuff.

Speaker 5 (36:09):
And then Alan was like, oh, we want to send
you to Japan, like things are going really well.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
I was like yes, And.

Speaker 5 (36:14):
Then I landed back in New York on September like seventh,
twenty twenty one, and I was really excited. And then
that happened, and then I guess the whole economic down,
like I guess the investor in that.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
Label pulled out.

Speaker 5 (36:30):
So that was that. With that, you know, just a
lot of yeah. So that was my That was my
fourth album. That was in two thousand and one. Then
I got an American late that never came out in
that one didn't come out in America at that time
because they didn't have a deal for distribution in America,
just the world excluding North America.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
So then I got this label Future Farmer. Do you
know who they are?

Speaker 3 (36:54):
I didn't.

Speaker 5 (36:55):
They put out m wards for stuff. Oh yeah, yeah,
and they were from San Francisco. And then they put
it out in two thousand and two, and I toured
around with that and then and then I had a
manager at the time who got kind of sick of
dealing with labels, so he said he was going to
start a label to put my own, to put my
stuff out. So then and he had some money, so
he put out a couple more.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
I guess that was the next one was in two thousand. Yeah.
I could keep on, you know, over the years. Yeah,
just I'm putting them out.

Speaker 5 (37:27):
And I kind of was doing the cycle, you know,
literally up until about ten years ago, when and I would,
you know, put it out and I'd get some press,
and I'd do like an acoustic tour maybe and band shows,
always playing in New York. But I started to get
really lonely. I just started gotting like being solo guy
was just not.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
Happening for me anymore.

Speaker 5 (37:48):
I kind of was like this, I mean, I all
power to people who can do that, you know, loud
and wainewright, living on the road, you know, like.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
It's fun once in a while. I don't think I
could do it night after night after night. I think,
you know, I mean, I.

Speaker 5 (38:06):
Guess if you had the right agent and you were
getting really well paid shows, it would make it worth it.
But really fighting that fight out there, it gets really
old alone. So what happened was I met It was
about ten years ago. I met this guy Steve Mayon,
who actually first just started playing in my band. I
knew through another guitarist and or actually I met him.

(38:29):
I met him at Ringo Stars publicist's house. It was
kind of a networking like get together dinner with meeting
people up and he was there and we just kind
of talked and then I don't know, we kind of
met and it really was one of those moments where
we kind of come at music very similarly, but we're

(38:51):
very different writers.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
So we just kind of like hit it off, you.

Speaker 5 (38:55):
Know, and we just started playing together and getting together
once a week, and we've been right like a new
song once a week for almost ten years.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yeah, the stuff you sent me sounds fantastic. Those harmonies
are great.

Speaker 4 (39:08):
Oh, thank you, thank you so much. Yeah, we'll working
on follow up now.

Speaker 5 (39:13):
And you know, and and it's just so you know,
so now when we go out, it's the two of us,
so we goof off and have fun.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
You get me to hang out with Yeah, and.

Speaker 5 (39:23):
It's it's just a completely different experience and it's way
more enjoyable.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
And plus he's he's a great writer. I love I
loved it. And he's a great multi instrumentalist.

Speaker 5 (39:32):
And I play guitar and piano and then he plays
guitar and mandolin and banjo and.

Speaker 4 (39:39):
A bunch of other stuff. So between the two of us,
we kind of a life a lot.

Speaker 5 (39:44):
You know, in Minneapolis, we're gonna have all because we're
using Michael Koppleman's instruments.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
So I don't know what array of instruments there.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Are, but you know, well that's helpful.

Speaker 5 (39:55):
We'll do a lot of switching, you know, a lot
of different instruments so.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
You don't have to bring your own guitar. Is there
anything on the on the old.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
Pode Yeah, no, no that I would like to, but
you know what, this is better. It's better just to
go really, you know.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
I agree, I you know, I'm I'm equipped for the
airplane if I need to, but I'm like so much
nicer if you don't have to lug that around the airport.
And Hope I brought my Martin to Uh. They were
played the thirty eight Songwriter Festival. It's like Panama City Beach.

Speaker 5 (40:26):
You know, I've never been there, but a guy whose
album I produce went down there instead. It was and
I've been I'm always like, I got to apply, we
got to apply for and I always forget.

Speaker 4 (40:36):
And I never do, so maybe it was probably too late.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
It was incredible. They do it in January, and it
was like the head They've got all these different venues,
so everybody's kind of strewn around, and then they've got
like the headliners. It was like mayvs. Staples, DAWs, Black Crows,
Emmy Lou Harris. Yeah, Steve Earl was there. It was

(41:02):
he was on my plane, which was kind of a trip.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
But he lives in my neighborhood, does he? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Yeah, it was he and his son were.

Speaker 4 (41:11):
Oh you mean which son?

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Uh, the younger one? Okay, yeah, yeap This was after
Justin died, so I don't know if I wonder if
he has like he does he have two, but this
is the younger one. But it was funny. I was
sitting at the airport waiting to get on to fly
to Atlanta because then I had to find it to
Atlanta in Minneapolis. You know, you're sitting there having a sleep,

(41:36):
drinking your coffee, and I look up into like Steve Earls. Apparently, Uh,
I'm on the plane with Steve Earl today, so that's
kind of weird.

Speaker 5 (41:46):
I have a funny story about running into him, like I, uh,
he lives my neighborhood.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
And there's this guitarist. You know who Chris Masterson is.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
I've heard the name, but I don't know who it is.

Speaker 5 (41:58):
Well, he toured with me, playing guitar with me for
a tour I did like in two thousand and eight.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
Oh, he might have been on.

Speaker 5 (42:03):
That tour that I did that year. Yeah, I don't
think he was at the show I did with you,
but he ended up playing with Steve for many years.
So I think I ran into Steve on the street
and I think I brought him up and we just
started talking. So then we would occasionally run into each
other and have this little conversation on the street. And
then this one time it was kind of weirdly ironic,

(42:24):
but I sometimes do Irish music, and.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
I got hired to play at this wedding and they
wanted someone to sing Galway Girl.

Speaker 5 (42:33):
So I was singing I was going to practice Galway
Girl for this wedding.

Speaker 4 (42:38):
And then I run into the guy who wrote it.
So we're talking and.

Speaker 5 (42:41):
I just go, you know what's really funny is like,
I'm about to go practice Galway Girl for this wedding,
and he just looked at.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
Me and he just walked away. He walked away from
me in the middle of the sentence.

Speaker 5 (42:55):
I think his brain was like, these fuckers play my
songs at weddings and I don't get any money for it.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
Was weird.

Speaker 5 (43:03):
It really felt like the worst, like I'd said, the
biggest faux pas, Like somebody I totally respect.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
You know you got canceled by Steve Earle by playing
the song exactly.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
I'm like, sorry, dude, like it's a great swam.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
What have you seen him? Since?

Speaker 4 (43:25):
No, no, no, I'm blacklisted.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Man, I can't know.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
I'm kidding. I don't know I don't know what he's
up to. Yeah, yeah, he's busy, just talking about me
in house House.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
He's just wondering why. Yeah, he tells everybody sees and
he's like, I played my song in a wedding. I
love Steve.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
Steve Earl is one of my favorite favorite artists.

Speaker 5 (43:46):
I saw him for the first time in Boston at
the rat Cool and it was actually I went because
Peter Holsapple from the DB's was opening for Open So
I went to see Peter oles Apple and then at
the end of the show we went up my band
and I, oh, Bubble. He's like, are you gonna stay

(44:08):
for Steve? And we're like, who, Yeah, you should stay.
He was like, you should stay, but dude, I'm not kidding.
They were like probably a dozen people there, like a
Wednesday night at like eleven a dozen meet twelve people there,
and by the end of the night, people were like
literally like bowing to him. Wow. It was he had

(44:30):
the full band, he had the Pedal Steel play there,
he had everything, brought the whole shebang for twelve people,
and it was on Those are those shows that really
you live for, you know, where you see somebody who's
really so committed, like the real rock and roll thing,
you know, like they're not they're the real deal.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
It's amazing when you see someone play in front of
so few people and it does not matter, like you
could not even get there's not even a hint of
disappointment coming from the stage, right, Like the people who
can do that, it's that's just fantastic, and it's it's hard,
like we've all played those shows that are you know,

(45:11):
for very few people. It's hard to rise above that.
So like it's it's a beautiful thing when you see
people like, oh, totally on face, it's just no problem.

Speaker 5 (45:22):
It does come from, like what you just said, years
of doing it.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
And I really do think that's like the ultimate. That's
like kind of when you're ready for something to happen.

Speaker 5 (45:32):
Is when you can do that, when you just you're
not really playing for how many, you're just playing for
whoever is there, and and one person is as important
as a thousand.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
Well, and it bugs me when you see somebody in
that situation that takes it out on the crowd. I
hate that. I was at a comedy show in Long
Beach a couple of years ago. It's like, right, right,
by my hotel. So I was like, I'm gonna go
see some comedy. Giant room probably ten people in it
in the comics is pissed and just taking it out
of the crowd, And I'm like, these people paid money

(46:07):
to come in here to see you, and they're the
ones that are here. They paid to see you, so
why are you punishing them for actually showing up.

Speaker 5 (46:16):
So the best advice I ever got was play for
who's there, not for who's not there.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Right Oftentimes those shows, those are the ones that kind
of they're the best show. People are very appreciative if
you play your heart out because they feel like they
were a part.

Speaker 5 (46:32):
Of some You know, I'll be honest with you, when
a friend invites me to a show, I'll think to myself,
is this gonna be really crowded?

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Because if it's gonna be crowded, I'm not gonna go.

Speaker 5 (46:45):
But if if I can, if I think, oh, they'll
probably be like, you know, twenty thirty people, then I'll
go because then I then I'll have.

Speaker 4 (46:51):
A connection with it. But if I'm just like being
scrunched up, I'm gonna.

Speaker 5 (46:56):
Be like not digging it, and I don't really want
to go to that, so you know.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
So the truth is like, you shouldn't.

Speaker 5 (47:04):
You shouldn't measure the quality of your thing by how
many people are there because a lot of times that's
that's a low quality experience compared to, you know, a
smaller crowd.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
There's a buddy of mine and I met him years ago.
He does the Songwriter Series shows in Ottawa, Illinois, which
is about an hour hour and a half out of Chicago,
and as he tells the story, it's south West, Okay.

Speaker 5 (47:35):
My parents parents were from Rockford, Illinois, which is like.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
Yeah, yeah, my friend Miles lives in Rockford, but they
he does the Songwriter Series and it's it's this brilliant
thing because what he does is he has a room.
He sells about fifty to sixty tickets. They always sell
out these fifty to sixty tickets because it's a smaller area.
But he could pull in really good artists because he's

(48:04):
near Chicago, so like he'll have like Rhett Miller from
Old ninety Seven's will come through and play this kind
of small it's not it's like a house show, but
not really because it's not like a small venue, but
it's like a songwriter series thing, and he's he's had
Rhet Miller, he's had Lee Nash from sixpence and none
the richer who's reaches out to him now and say hey,

(48:25):
can I come back? Like and it's a pin drop situation.
So when when you talk about doing these solo shows
and how lonely it, the first thing that came out
my mind is, yeah, it can be kind of like rough,
but I'm like, there are those certain little pockets that
are like, I will always do that when he calls me,
I will always go there because it's always worth it.

(48:47):
Oh I want Yeah, yeah you should, and it's really
really good. He's it's like a in the round usually
like three people. Yeah, and then just kind of going
back and forth with pin Drop. People are so appreciative.
It's the best.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
Yeah. Yeah, kind of like the bluebird type situation.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
Right totally is yeah, very much like that. But the
beauty is is it's just off the beaten path in
this town. I don't know how big Otto is. It's
probably like fifty thousand people, but it's not it's a
small town. Like you go there and you're like, oh,
small town and there.

Speaker 5 (49:25):
All my tours I've ever done. Those are always the
best shows. Those are the ones you really remember, the
smaller and now, like you know, I do play a
lot of house shows and they're great. I mean you
really feel like, you know, people really listen, they really
pay you. They you know, they you have a real
intimate musical experience. And a lot of times club things

(49:47):
are you know, just you'l had to drink and whatever.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
You know, Yeah, especially if you're doing the solo thing,
Like sometimes that can be a little rough in a
club because you get the best bottles and it's like
this is not conduce him to a listening room.

Speaker 5 (50:04):
So you get a little bit kind of you become
more of like a wrangler, like a cow wrangler, and
then you know that's your job is to kind of
the wrangle drunks into obedience.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
And it's just like that's not a fun job, you.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Know, not not great. So what who are your bands?
Who did you grow up listening to? Who are you
listening to?

Speaker 5 (50:24):
Now? You know, I really you know, I have these
different people ask me about a lot, and you know,
there was always these different stages where there was the
thing that was happening. And I definitely because you know,
I'm sixty one. I've gone through those phases, so I mean,

(50:48):
I could give you way too long an answer, you know,
but then I could give two short answer that would
be like the typical thing.

Speaker 4 (50:55):
But you know, I was been thinking we were just.

Speaker 5 (50:58):
Recording the other day, and I and I started thinking,
me and the engineer, we're recording this thing, and I
kind of I'm kind of hearing this like Elton John
seventies string part. He looked at me, and I was
thinking the exact same thing, and I realized that I

(51:19):
was raised on seventies.

Speaker 4 (51:20):
AM radio from the earlies, and that.

Speaker 5 (51:23):
As much as I think I'm cool, I'd still think
that's the best music, you know what I mean, Like,
I really think the those single, that time of that
crossover between soul music and pop music and AM radio
was just so exciting for me as as as a kid,

(51:46):
you know. And but of course, then you know, I
got older, and then it was you know, I went
and I mean.

Speaker 4 (51:52):
Obviously I'm like a Beatle freak, you know.

Speaker 5 (51:54):
I mean, that's it's impossible not to be.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
I don't trust Penny one who doesn't like the Beatles.

Speaker 5 (52:02):
Well, you'd be surprised, I know, I know, I know
a few and I'm like, you're wrong.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
It's okay.

Speaker 5 (52:07):
They'll argue with you so the end of time, like
why they're an overrating band and all this stuff. But
you know, so it really always goes back to that.
And then they were all like all like the Beatles,
like Tentacle.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
Bands like bad Finger and.

Speaker 5 (52:24):
Big Star and all of that stuff. And then but
then you know, when I, you know, went to college
and everything, it was you know, the it was the
early eighties, and it was kind of like the New
York CBGB punk rock thing and I I had a
did a real deep dive and the band I was
in we were really into like Elvis Costello and the

(52:44):
Clash and Squeeze and all of those, and then the
New York bands like television. I was aware of television
in nineteen eighty and you know, it did that whole thing,
and and and then I remember really being heavily effected.
And then I went to England in nineteen eighty two,
and I was there in eighty two and eighty three

(53:06):
and when the Jam was there and I was kind
of there for that whole period, and then we came
back and I.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
Just remember being so blown away.

Speaker 5 (53:17):
The first time I heard ram I just I was
in an NYU dorm room hearing Murmur for.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
The first time, and I was like, holy shit.

Speaker 5 (53:26):
You know, it just always seemed like there was something
really new and interesting.

Speaker 4 (53:30):
So then I kind of did a deep dive into that.

Speaker 5 (53:32):
And then I had an experience like that maybe a
year later, when the first time I heard the Smiths,
and you know, and I would just have these experiences
of new things and you know, the alternative rock. And
then I was in Boston the first time I heard
the Pixies. I was kind of like all shit, and
you know, so it was always there was always this
new and then and you know Minneapolis, like the Replacements

(53:54):
were like a big part of that.

Speaker 4 (53:56):
That was a Husker Doo replace.

Speaker 5 (53:58):
I remember the first time I saw was was on
a I was in college in a in a so
in college, you know, every where I went, everybody was
listening to like classic.

Speaker 4 (54:11):
Rock, yeah, you know, or uh.

Speaker 5 (54:16):
Progressive rock or jazz fusion or southern rock, you know,
like that would basically whatever listened to. And I was
with like a bunch of people in a dorm room
and the TV was on and this guy came out
in his underwear like dancing like and they started screaming,

(54:37):
screaming all these epithets, and you know, and me and
the other guy from my band were like kind of
looking at it, going this is this guy's gonna be big,
you know, and like this is.

Speaker 8 (54:48):
Pretty great, Like this is this is pretty cool, you know,
you know, and then getting going through and and then
I got dirty mind in dirty mind.

Speaker 4 (54:59):
Wow, that blew my mind. So, I mean, there's definitely
so there's you know, I've always been such an open
music fan and you know, and then then there was
like the nineties and.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
It was like, you know, all all the stuff that
was happening then. But then but then once you start
making records, I noticed you become a little bit less
of a fan. Well, some some people become well some
people are more that way. But I just got trying
to focused on making what I wanted to do, so

(55:33):
I wasn't as like I chasing the new sound as
much as some people I know. But so maybe I
kind of did fall off there and then kind of
get left there.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
But still whenever I hear something.

Speaker 5 (55:47):
But now nowadays, you know, my daughter will basically turn
me onto things. And I remember The coolest thing was
recently I had heard this band. I thought, this is amazing,
and it was Big Thief. And then she was like,
really into this band, Big Thief if you're them, and
I heard them and I was like, that's great.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
I like that.

Speaker 4 (56:04):
So you know, that's kind of how it goes.

Speaker 5 (56:07):
But you know, I've done deep dives on so many
gone down the country.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
Road and the yeah great lous Road to rock road, Like.

Speaker 5 (56:16):
I'm just so many, you know, I just feel like
there's just so much music still and even like you know,
African music and so many things.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Yeah, it's I feel like it's not like there are
these different periods where you've got Obviously the early nineties
were fantastic, dearly seventies are fantastic. Like you just get
these little pockets that are much better than other pockets.
But good music never stops, right. I do feel like
it's a little harder to find it, probably because what
we were talking about earlier about how it's just there's

(56:47):
just so much entertainment, like there's and then everything is
streaming and like either on TV or music. It's it's
really hard to narrow down and do that. But there
are so many good things and if you're a fan,
you give find it. But I also to your point
about the kids thing, this is kind of funny. Recently
I was having trouble sleeping one night, well back to

(57:07):
back up, my kid tells me about this rapper he
really likes, and he's always playing me stuff. Might you
know if you'll walk past the bathroom and the other
day I heard not a Surf, radio Head and Nirvana
in a row coming out of the bathroom. The teenager,
I'm like, and then the next day it'll be kind
of like some music. He like new music, and like
he's kind of all over there, all over the place,
which is cool. But he turned me onto this rapper Rigel.

(57:30):
I think he's originally from DC called id k Okay,
and he played me this song it's called dog Food,
and it's it's awesome. It is really good. I'm not
a huge rap guy. I like some of it. If
it's good, I like it kind of like any music,
but this stuff's great. So he's coming to town. He
comes to the entry and Henry's like, he goes, it's

(57:53):
in all ages. I'm like, it's not all ages. He's like, well,
you got to go, so I'm like, all right, He's like,
you gotta take a video, you gotta go. He made
me go for him, which I thought was kind of funny.
So I'm like, I gotta go. So I walk in
and the entry guy takes my idea. I'm like, am
I the oldest guy here. He's like, I wasn't going
to tell you that, But the show's great, and I've

(58:15):
been playing it for my bandmates and friends and they're
all they all like it. They're all like, decide, okay, guys. Great.
So fast forward to a few weeks ago. I'm wake
up in the middle and I can't sleep, so I'm
staring at my phone and I'm like, I'm actually, I
was recently laid off for my job, which was really crappy.

(58:37):
So when you're in this situation, I'm like, some employers
will google you, which I think sucks. So I'm like,
I think that's what woke me up in the middle
of I'm like, what do people see they google me?
Because I've had things where people have been like, hey,
I saw your music, and I'm like, how you googled me?
So I google it and one of the first things
that pops up is the showflyer from a handful of

(59:00):
years ago from Chicago that I played and on the
flyer is I d k.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
Oh Have you played with him? I played with the guy,
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
And I'm like at that point, I just wanted to
go wake him up at three in the morning and
be like, oh my god. So like I printed the
thing out and he's like, what is this, And I'm like,
I don't. Like I looked. I thought maybe because they
had two rooms. I'm like, nope, it was the same room,
same ticket, and you know, I think I was at
the merch booth. I'm like, I don't know if that's

(59:34):
a great thing if your teenage kids musical hero was
playing shows with their dad, But I definitely thought it
was awesome.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
That is I'm very pressed. That's very cool. Yeah, yeah,
the rat Are you gonna Macamore at all? I like Malclamore.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
I took him. I took my son to Macklamore just
like I like him. It's good stuff, and my son
wanted to go. It was insanely good, right, He's like yeah,
He's like, that was one of the best shows I
have ever seen, he said, And I'm like, that was
definitely one of the most entertaining. The floor was shaking
in that place because people were going nuts.

Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
Yeah, he's amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:00:15):
I've never seen him live, but I really really that,
you know, I want to go see you know, I'm
such an old guy. I want to see Elos coming
to the I found out they're coming to the Garden
next Monday, and I'm like, that was the last big
show I saw. It was five years ago. A friend brought.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
Me and I would blown the fuck away.

Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
I really had no expectations and it was amazing, and.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
I would I would go if something, and so I
even wrote on Facebook.

Speaker 5 (01:00:47):
I was like, who's taking me to Elo because I'm
not paying one hundred dollars or the last tour.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
So I suppose to this point exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:00:56):
But now I was going to say with the rap thing,
I saw Grand Master Fly in like in nineteen eighty
three or four.

Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
Yeah that's cool. Yeah, yeah, when they were like opening
for The Clash.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
You know, and oh wow, what a show.

Speaker 5 (01:01:14):
I didn't see them with the Clash. I actually saw them,
but I was on that tour. It was when they
were opening for them.

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
But yeah, and I remember we were you know, the
band was like they're not even playing their instruments. Man,
what is this ship?

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Find not coming to one? And I'll probably be able
to make it to the drift Woods this week, so
she'll probably be awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:01:34):
See.

Speaker 6 (01:01:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:01:34):
The other one is more like a private I don't
really know what those those kinds of situations, whether it's
He was like, yeah, you can tell people, but he's like,
don't put up posters in the bus station, right.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Yeah, a college party.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
But I should say maybe that it is in Andover?
Is that where? How far is that from regularly?

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
She said, I don't even know. I can tell you though,
trying to picture where rand Over is. Let's see, Oh
it's oh so it's north of the city, almost like
directly north from Minneapolis. It's a half hour north. Okay,

(01:02:24):
almost almost a straight lin Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:02:26):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that that should be uh yeah,
I don't know. That's kind of like more of a
but if anybody who's listening, what just if they just
private message me on my Facebook and I could give
them the info for it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Nice, awesome, Well, Save Travels was good catching up with you.

Speaker 5 (01:02:45):
Thank you so much, really nice to talk to you,
and good luck with everything. Good luck with the the layoff,
I hope you you know, write a lot of great music.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
Well, the podcast has been getting a little more action
lately and I have written a lot of song so
if there's any any good from it, yeah, it's definitely
freed up some time for other things.

Speaker 5 (01:03:05):
So I was glad job and then I found a job,
and heaven knows, I'm miserable now.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
How about that? Matt Keating on The Figure Eights Podcast
live from Studio twenty four here in the Twin Cities.
Thank you for listening. Thank you to Matt for appearing
on the show. I enjoyed the hell out of our conversation.
Great guy, it was good to catch up. And he
will be at the Driftwood with his new band, Bastards

(01:03:43):
of Fine Arts on Thursday night here in Minneapolis. So
I highly recommend you will spend an early evening out
at the Driftwood to catch Matt and company perform. It's
gonna be great and we will see you next time.
And once again, don't forget to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,

(01:04:04):
all the stuff. Thank you for listening. We'll see you
next time.

Speaker 9 (01:04:09):
From the Figure Eights Podcast swim Fist, Maybe I don't
like my point of you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
Maybe if it's up.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
To you, and.

Speaker 6 (01:04:20):
As good question, you get no answer.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
I guess there's nothing new for me to see.

Speaker 9 (01:04:54):
Lis suit, just bright ideas, just hand me down, reasoning
it'll steak.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
And maybe I'm a leadial and it's true.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
Maybe you don't like my point of you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
Maybe be up to you.

Speaker 9 (01:05:16):
And so other brouch.

Speaker 4 (01:05:23):
On your wishes, go start.

Speaker 6 (01:05:27):
They can't match, just like cards him until I've left
you lie.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Then I want to stand the car.

Speaker 4 (01:05:41):
I wanted to be.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
Joe have to wait before the side. Maybe I'm a lead,
it's true. Maybe you don't.

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
Like my point of you.

Speaker 8 (01:05:57):
Maybe be up to you is over Bruce.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
Maybe I have maybe with its crew. Maybe it's not
like my.

Speaker 9 (01:06:09):
Boy of

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
Maybe it's up to and so other crew