Figure Eights (A Music Podcast) - Episode 67 w_ Lisa Umbarger (Toadies / SolShifter)

Join me for the 4 year anniversary episode as I talk with Lisa Umbarger (the Toadies). We talk about her time in the Toadies, touring in places like North Dakota, her parents hanging out with Marilyn Manson and Trent Reznor, the ghost of tour buses past, podcasting and the reasons why the Toadies made the kids sad...

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You are listening to the Figure Eights podcast. I'm your host,
Nick Leaked from the band High On Stress out of Minneapolis, Minnesota.
I am recording here in Studio twenty four in the
Twin Cities and we are celebrating four years of the
Figure Eights Podcast. I started this thing during COVID when

(00:32):
no one had anything to do like any of us,
and did an episode a week or a year, and
it's been as the spirit moves me over the course
of the last couple but still going strong, still getting
great guests, having a great time doing this. And I
thank you all for listening to the episodes that I

(00:54):
have and the nice comments, and still amazes me when
people walk up and start talking to me about a
certain episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
So thank you for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Happy four years, and without further ado, we've got our
four year anniversary guest. And she was the bass player
of a great irock and roll band in the nineties
and to be on and I gotta tell you you'll
hear a story in here about why you should get
good grades kids, So listen closely. Without further ado, I

(01:28):
bring you from the Toadies, Lisa Umbarger.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
There it is, There you go How are you, Master Jedi.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
I'm good. Yeah, Geek, I'm great. How about yourself?

Speaker 2 (01:48):
I am good. I am good.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
It's been I'm in Minneapolis, and I don't know if
it's a good thing or not, but it's been about
seventy plus.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Degrees all over.

Speaker 5 (01:59):
That would be good, is it?

Speaker 6 (02:01):
What's it like, because it's crazy hot down there. You're
in Texas, right, yeah? Ninety degrees today, yeah, and normally
in October gets down into the eighties.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Okay, because I spent a lot of time in Austin,
and I was surprised at how cold the mornings were,
and then it was like, okay, now I'm melting.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
But in the morning, I was like kind of cold.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah, you've been in Fort Worth the entire time. Have
you live somewhere else?

Speaker 5 (02:30):
Oh? We lived all over.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
I was an Air Force brat so oh right, we
grew up in Montana, Montana.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
I grew up in North Dakota, so we were.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Near Yeah, so I get it. I get the gold. Yeah,
we moved down here because my mom's family is from
down here.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Okay, what part of the military Air Force? Air Force
ever in North Dakota might not at Air Force Base.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
We have gone through there.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Okay, Montana when I was there did not have a
whole lot going on. Now you know, everyone's moving there
and it's the cool place to live. But I mean
there was a sears. We lived in Great Falls, and seriously,
that was all that there was was a sears.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Just a sears.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Yeah, that was They had more than a seers, but
not much more like if you wanted to hang out
at night in my not it was like over at
somebody's party somewhere, or you're going to Walmart or.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
The bowling Alley because they were still open.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
Yeah, So did you were you born in Montana then
or did you just found yourself living there?

Speaker 3 (03:40):
We just ended up there. We lived in god my
dad since he was a missile control officer, he was
in school a lot, so we lived in Alabama, we
lived in Utah, we lived in California, and then the

(04:01):
last place where he retired from was was Montana. But uh,
I was born in Indiana.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
Indiana, Okay, So that's that's the origin story there. But
you've been everywhere else? Yes, what kind of what kind
of kid?

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Were you.

Speaker 5 (04:19):
Shy? Because it was you know, we moved all the time,
so it was.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Weird. It was. I had trouble making friends because I
was like, well, ship, we're going to be gone soon.
So yeah, we were tight with the family. So I
had two sisters and a brother who were all younger,
and so we were all really close.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Everybody's still around yep.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
And in fact, that's why I have not left Texas
is because they're still here and it's kind of I've
left several.

Speaker 5 (04:55):
Times and then come back, so.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
They pull you back in.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah. We all live within about thirty miles of each other,
so we're all pretty close. Still nice.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Yeah, No, When I moved to Minneapolis when I was twenty,
and my parents both left North about three years after me,
and they live about thirty minutes. They live over by
Paisley Park. Actually we're here's a studio. They're like down
the street. So they used to joke they were gonna
go borrow sugar from them.

Speaker 5 (05:23):
But I could live in Minneapolis so easy.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
I love it there.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
Yeah, you spent a lot of time here when you
were traveling playing.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, when we played. Yeah, it's a great place. Oh,
I love it. The people are great. I like the
cold weather and the music scene. I don't know if
it dried up as much as Dallas has Dallas and.

Speaker 5 (05:48):
Fort Worth, but the music scene.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Was all I was so jealous of it.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
No, it's still still raging every night.

Speaker 4 (05:56):
There's something going on here. And yeah, you know, a
lot of news open and close. First Avenue is forever.
They're not going anywhere. About twenty years ago they closed
for like a month and we're like, oh no. And
then since then they're buying up other venues, like it's
you know, trying to keep Live Nation at Bay right,

(06:18):
but Live Nation keeps moving in with a new venue,
and then they get squashed and then they leave and
then but no one can really top at First Avenue
just got a stranglehold, which is great because.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
What about original music? Is original music still? Oh yeah,
everything is is freaking cover bands.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
No, it's mostly original music here.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
You know, the suburban bars, you'll see a lot of
the cover band stuff, but it's mostly mostly original bands.
And then there's a kind of a side tribute band
scene where you've got you know, bands playing Weezer and
Pixies and all this sort of stuff. Drummer and my
band actually play in a Pixie's tribute band on the

(07:02):
side too, and which is kind of fun because there's
not a lot of Pixies tribute bands around and they're
actually quite good, which is not an easy band to cover.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
I'm I'm all for the Pixies cover band.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (07:15):
In fact, my dog is named Pixie.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
There you go.

Speaker 5 (07:19):
Oh yeah, huge.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
Well I might have to send you some clips of
them so you can so you can critique the band.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
But please do, please do, that would be awesome. But
I was listening to your podcast earlier and I listened
to the Steve Albini interview, and uh, I just have
to tell you that was God. That was really nice
hearing yeah talk. Yeah, it made me sad and happy

(07:47):
at the same time.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
You know, Uh, do you know Steve.

Speaker 5 (07:52):
Man No, I wanted him to produce Rubberneck.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Oh really, that would have been.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Something, and uh I got out voted. I mean Tom
roth Rock and Rob Schnapp did a great job, don't
get me wrong, but my end. Yeah, but I always
dream about what would have happened if Steve Albini had
made that record. You know, it would have been pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
It would have been pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (08:21):
And it's funny because the when I did that, so
many people reached out and they're like, oh, I did
some stuff with him. I'm like because he was just like, yeah, sure,
I'll do it. And I was a little worried with
the you know, the reputation as being a little surly,
and he really wasn't.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Like that's what I love about It really wasn't.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
I'm sure he could be. He was more surly about
the COVID stuff than anything.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
But he was exactly talk to. He made fun of
my daughter who walked behind too, which, okay.

Speaker 5 (08:53):
That was hilarious. That was hilarious. She was hungry, Come
on man.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, yeah, Steve all calling my daughter a creep is
one of the funny things.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
It was freaking awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
And I told her what he passed. She's like, no
because she remembered that.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, yeah, that was That was a sad day. I
have to say that.

Speaker 5 (09:14):
It really affected me.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
But the first time we met Steve Albini sorry that's
my puppy was a pixie. She uh, I'm sorry not
she He was uh touring with Jesus Lizard running sound.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
And and we didn't see him before we heard him.
We were watching Jesus Lizard because we were playing with him.
We were watching the sound check and uh, just like
in awe because freaking love Jesus Lizard. And we heard
this voice and Charles and I, the guitar player in
the todies, was like, does that sound like Steve Albini

(09:59):
When we walked that we've walked back to the booth,
I mean, because his voice is it's very recognizable. We
walked back and we're like, holy fuck, and like he
kind of we stalked him. We were like waiting around
because we're like, is he going to be an a
hole to us? Because he had that reputation. Yeah, and uh,
he was so fucking nice and it was really cool

(10:21):
to talk with him. And I wish, I so wish
I would have got a chance to work with him.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (10:30):
Well a funny story about that episode too, And I
want to get to the tony stuff here, But guitar
player in my band, I'm a huge Irvana fan. He's
the biggest Nirvana fan ever.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
Like it was.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
I knew him since he was like very young, and
he just had all the posters everying on the wall
and so I had him like, Hey, you want to
talk to Albani with me? He's like yes, So we're
on so we're on there. They like I introduced Chad.
Chad talks for a minute, and then all of a sudden,
for some reason, he gets cut off and drops off

(11:05):
the call. So like he met him for like a
minute and we talked for like a few minutes. Of
a sudden, I noticed Chad drops off and never comes back.
And and the funniest thing about that, I cut it
out so you can't tell it's on the episode that
that happened. But it made me laugh because I talked
to Albini for like another hour, hour and a half
or whatever it was, and Chad never came up again.

(11:26):
He wasn't like what happened to the other guy. It
was like it was unspoken. So I mad, I make
fun of Chad all the time. I'm like, I don't
know what happened, but you were never mentioned again. It
was like a ghost, like that guy just disappeared. It
was just so funny how it never came up. So

(11:50):
so when you were a kid, what what kind of
music were you into?

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Here?

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I was in the music or did you just kind
of come on to it later in life? What it
look like?

Speaker 3 (11:58):
Always in music? My dad was a guitar player. He
was in the He's in the Rockabilly Hall of Fame.
My dad played guitar, and in fact, that's what he
wanted to do until he had kids. And then my
mom was like, you can't freaking play rock music and
have kids, so he went into the Air Force.

Speaker 5 (12:19):
So true story.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
And no one told me that one, right, I.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
Know, right and so uh so I always wanted to
do that. I never wanted to do anything else, but
my parents are like, no, you can't. You gotta pick
something else. But music was always always around my parents
had I think my parents had great taste of music.

(12:45):
You know, we always had the Stones on and we
always had the Beatles on, and my parents were really
into soul music, Motown and Wilson Picket.

Speaker 5 (12:55):
My mom's favorite was Wilson Pickett and that was always
haang so.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
Uh. In fact, uh my first dog was named Susie
Q after the Credence song because I love Credence. When
I was a kid, and my first concert was when
I was five and it was I can Tina Turner
opening up for Credence? Oh shit, yeah, because those are

(13:23):
my two favorite because I love big Will Keybone Turning.
I knew all the words and my parents are like, okay,
come on. They took me to my first concert and
that was the show, so.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Well, yeah, you beat me. I've got Huey Lewis with
Juice Newton opening.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
Oh man, that's a sports tour though, so that was
the height of Huey Lewis. Oh yeah, which I you know,
I kind of have a soft spot for Hueie because
of that, but you know, credence, that's pretty cool.

Speaker 5 (13:52):
Yeah that was that was uh, that was freaking cool
and uh.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, that just kind of said it from the time
I was five and after I saw them, I was like,
I'm not I can't do anything but this.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (14:07):
So music was always just always there.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
How old were you with that five?

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah? I was about five. Too interesting because didn't make
a big impression on you.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
Totally totally yeah, But I was like I was already in,
like I'm a huge Prince fan.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
That was my first and still.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
So like I was already in the music and then
seeing the concert and at that point, the North Dakota
State Fair usually gets not great stuff, but they happened
to book Huey before the Sports tour, before that album
blew up, so they kind of hit it right on
the head, and I remember they were hosing down the
crowd because people were passing out because it was so

(14:52):
grat And I think up until a few years ago,
it was still the biggest attended show at the North
Kota State Fair. And I think, I don't know, Taylor
Swift beat it or something that somebody beat it, I think,
but it's like, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
It was crazy.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
It was a crazy show, like he was at the
height of his powers, and people showed up for that thing.
So it's kind of for a first show, it's pretty
amazing to see all those people going nuts.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
Yeah show. Uh, that's when we were in.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
Utah, Utah, Okay.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Nice.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
And you know what, I haven't even bought a Fogerty album,
uh because uh, I mean, I still like the guy's
voice and everything, but Credence just has a it's.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Just different feel of that stuff.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
It's just like there's no pocket. It's just incredible.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:49):
And it's also incredible to look at the number of
years that that stuff came out and you're like, how
did he do that?

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yeah, And it's just it felt gritty at the time
because there was most of the stuff on the radio
back then was was a sugar pop crap and then
there's this gretty cool sounding guy on the you know,
and then say with Tina Turner Man, they have these

(16:16):
these vocals that just stand out different from everybody else.
That's what I wanted. I wanted like something that just
like put teeth in you.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
And yeah, I always prefer that sort of thing too.
I like to have the edge. So well, what was
your favorite Creeden song?

Speaker 3 (16:35):
Oh, God, bad Moon, that's a good one.

Speaker 7 (16:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
In fact, it's so funny. I was singing that the
other day and I don't know, someone said something and
you know how you answer with the song lyric, and
that's the one.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, Welcome to my life.

Speaker 5 (16:57):
When I was a kid, Susie Q was my favorite.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, that was probably my first Creedence song I really liked.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Was that one.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Is so damn good?

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Oh my god?

Speaker 4 (17:09):
Yes, yeah, I think that's gotta be mine. But it's
a hard decision. There's so many.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah, I mean what they just made hits they just
you know, well not the regular kind of radio hits,
but they made songs that just it's the whole meat
and potatoes kind of song.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
You know, there's no filler and they stand the test
of time. What did you start playing so your dad
was a guitar player, did you pick up the guitars
around the house or did you gravitate towards the bass.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
I listened, and I studied through listening. We were not
allowed to play. This is the this is so weird.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
We were not allowed to.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Play instruments because my parents were so especially me, We're
so afraid that I would be in a band. And
my parents were not. They were not censored kind of people,
but that was like one of the things. They were
so worried that I wouldn't go to school and I
would be in a band, and right hindsight, and so

(18:17):
they were like, you know, study, get a scholarship to
go to school. So I played sports off from school.
I played sports, I got a scholarship, went to school,
and while I was in college, I worked in a
record store.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
And then they couldn't stop me. So I started playing
when I was twenty three.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Oh so fairly late.

Speaker 5 (18:44):
Yeah, nice, And it's when I met in My first
band was the Toadies.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
I met Charles who is the original guitar player in
the Todies and Todd who's singer of the todies. We
worked at the same record store and we had the
same musical taste, and Pod assumed that I could play
just because of the way that I could intelligently talk
about music and and uh. I remember one night before closed,

(19:16):
we used to stay up until midnight. And he came
up and it was like, Hey, Charles and I are
getting together this weekend. H'm gonna rehearse. Would you like
to be in our band. We're starting a band. And
I was like yeah and uh and he was like,
uh cool, bring your bass and amp and uh and uh,
I'll see you on Sunday. Oh and he's like, oh,

(19:36):
here's a tape of our music. We're gonna learn these
three songs. And uh. I remember I called my dad.
It was late, it was after midnight. I called him
that night and I was like, Hey, what are you
doing tomorrow? And it's like I don't know why, what's up?
Are you okay? And I was like, yeah, Well, we
got to go to a music store because I got
to buy a base in an amp. And if you

(19:59):
could teach me these three songs on a tape, I got.
I have rehearsal on Sunday and he's like, I learned
three songs in a night. And I was like, well
I got it because I'm in a band. He's like,
Jesus twist and uh.

Speaker 5 (20:16):
We went the next day.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
We bought a base, we bought an amp, and he
started teaching me the songs and uh the rest is history.
That's what this was.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
This So this was after college.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Well, I was still in college because I was going slow.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Okay, yeah, I went a little slow.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
A lot of people got to college for seven and
a half years. They're called doctors.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, well that's what I thought I was gonna do
before I joined the band. Yeah, that's what my parents
thought I was gonna do too, And uh it didn't
work out that way. Wow, joined the band? Yeah, I
joined the band, changed my uh degree to a business
agree and then uh graduated and uh played in a band.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
So how did they How did your parents feel?

Speaker 4 (21:10):
Obviously your dad helped you out with those songs, but
at that point they realized you were on the you
were on your your path.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Now you you're in school, you're doing the things. We're
a little less worried about it. At this point, I.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Think they knew it was gonna happen. They just were
like thinking they could delay it as much as possible
because yeah, uh after that, they were our biggest fans.
They showed up at every show when the Toties got
signed and toured. Uh. My parents were retired then.

Speaker 5 (21:40):
My mom was a nurse.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
My dad worked at uh Lockey Martin made fighter planes.

Speaker 5 (21:48):
Wow, and uh uh yeah they got a they got
a car and took off and we.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
Were like the grateful dead. They followed us. Yeah, they
got to, you know, see a bunch of great bands,
you know that we opened for. And they got to
meet Marilyn Manson, which was crazy. My parents meeting Marilyn Manson.
I'm like, all right, I hope you got a Yeah,

(22:17):
my parents with the trit Resnor, Marilyn Manson and Dave
Grohl and stuff. I'm like, what the fuck? How are
you guys like meeting all these folks that I love.

Speaker 4 (22:27):
That Dave Girls story of walking off stage and his
mom's drinking a beer with Billy Joe from Green.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
Day, Yes, what the hell man, it's so great, right.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
Yeah, that's pretty funny. So that's that's an awesome story.
So when you were working at the record store with
the other guys. Were they playing it was that their
first band as well?

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Or was this really?

Speaker 3 (22:48):
We're all Charles did not play either our lead guitarists.
So Todd is the only one who was in a
band before, and he did. He was in a cover
band called Gunga Din, and uh, we would go to
house parties and they would play like Cure and stuff,

(23:09):
so you know, they would play like eighties alternative stuff
and they never did play like shows and clubs. It
seemed like they were playing house parties. And uh, when
that started fizzling out, I think one of the reasons
why I fizzled out is their drummer went and joined

(23:29):
Stomp in New York, so oh wow, Yeah, so Todd
had to like figure out what the fuck he was
gonna do, and he started a band with two people
who have never been in bands and didn't play. So
the patience of a god, I guess.

Speaker 4 (23:46):
So, how was it when you all got in the
same room. Was pretty sloppy? And yeah, yes, I would imagine.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah it was. It was. It was pretty fucking horrible,
but uh, you know, three months later we were opening
for Fugazi, so yeah, so it was kind of uh
learn quick.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
I was just saying, do you know Ted nicely at all?

Speaker 3 (24:12):
I do not love his stuff though.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had him on too.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
I saw that, Man, what is how are you getting
all these producers?

Speaker 4 (24:26):
It's people asking like how do you get these guests?
And I just ask and yes, that's freaking cool. One
of your first shows was with Fugazi.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
That's yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
I think that was our I think that was our
third show was Fugazi.

Speaker 7 (24:44):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, that was a Yeah. That was insane and it
was great. Uh and uh, I remember every single moment
of it.

Speaker 7 (24:56):
It was it was.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, that was that was cool. I'm old and that
was a long time ago, and I still remember that
because that was like a crazy night.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
That's pretty cool, pretty big crowd, I would assume that, Yeah,
it was.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, it was insane. It was the biggest crowd we
had ever played in front of of course, because it's
the third show.

Speaker 5 (25:20):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
The Fugazi guys were so nice nice. That was like
the main thing I remember because we were so nervous
and they were talking to us, and of course we
wanted to meet them, and they were like, you guys,
just just go out there and play it's all right,
and they were like coaching us up. It was great.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Cool, that's pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
For the songs, like those Tony songs have a lot
of twists and turns and rhythmic changes to them. Is
that something that was there early on or is that
something you kind of got into as you honed your craft.

Speaker 5 (25:59):
I think that has always been there. But the one
thing that changed.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
In the early days because we didn't have very many songs,
we had some songs that didn't translate to to the
tody sound. So we would in the middle of our
set do a little acoustic thing, okay, and Todd would

(26:26):
bring out Todd and Charles would bring out acoustic guitars
and and it would be drums and bass. But it
was like, I don't know what we were fucking thinking
now that I think about it, I don't know what
we were doing. But we thought that this was like
this cool, I don't know, mood change in the middle

(26:47):
of the set. We were not punk rock and playing
in front of Fugazi, you know, because we were worried.

Speaker 5 (26:53):
We were talking to the promoter about it and we
were like, we shouldn't even be on this at all.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
But Fugazi had it in their contract that a female
had to be in the band that opened them. That's amazing,
and I was the only band in Fort Worth had
a female in a baseball female based player. So we
won by uh uh.

Speaker 7 (27:19):
No.

Speaker 5 (27:20):
It was a sausage party war, and.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
We wanted that, I don't know out it was.

Speaker 5 (27:27):
It was crazy, so we wanted to back out.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
I remember trying to back out several times, going, oh,
we shouldn't do this. This is only our third show.
I don't feel comfortable doing this, and the promoter kept going, yeah,
you guys, gotta there's no other or we're gonna lose
the show.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Yeah, but it was definitely I am I am too,
I am too. And I think after that it was
it kind of broke through a barrier. We quit being.

Speaker 5 (27:59):
So afraid of everything, you know, because we were really
really afraid of you know, when people like the sound
that we're doing and.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
We looked and sound so different than what everyone else
was doing at the time, and fort Worth was it
was kind of a slick. It was in the eighties still,
so it was kind of a slick heavy guitar, or
it wasn't heavy guitar. It was like really jangly guitar stuff,
you know, and we were heavy guitar stuff.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
So yeah, what were some of the other bands you
were playing with back then?

Speaker 3 (28:38):
There was well, there was a band called Anonymous Dog
that reminded me of the Flaming Lips and we freaking
loved them, and I don't know what happened to them,
but I love them. But they were a bunch of
Dallas bands. There weren't a whole lot of fort Worth bands.
There was a band called Hydrogen City that was a

(28:59):
really nice altar, ternative rock band. Then there was a
band called The Daylights that came up with Edie Brickel
and the New Bohemians.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Oh yeah, let's.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
See who else, guys.

Speaker 5 (29:18):
I'm I can't remember all the other bands now. But
fort Worth was.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
Trying to compete with Dallas because Dallas, uh, you know,
even though it's just like thirty minutes down the road,
it's completely two different music scenes.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Really, you'd figure there'd be a little crossover between the
two with.

Speaker 5 (29:39):
Different at the time, there was not.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
People from fort Worth would go to Dallas to sea bands,
but people in Dallas.

Speaker 5 (29:46):
Would not come to fort Worth's sea bands.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Interesting, and that's why like in our early uh, like
the band promo stuff, it says fort Worth and anytime
anyone said Dallas, we would correct them because there was
still a little uh chip on our shoulders about that,
because we couldn't get a gig in Dallas. If you

(30:12):
tell them you're from Fort Worth, they're like nah. So
it was really hard to get a gig. So we
had one club to play in fort Worth, one Wow,
and that was it. And that one club, though, was
getting all the great bands because Nirvana played there, Fugazi
played there, Afghan Wigs played there.

Speaker 5 (30:34):
So oh the Goo Goo Dolls back when they.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Were on U.

Speaker 8 (30:39):
Yes, yeah, pree Mike pre Mike pre Mike, yep, but yep,
I know that whole story is crazy.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
I love Mike. I'm I'm a team Mike.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
I think most people are team Mike.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (30:58):
But the Goo Goo.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Dolls at that time were really nice guys.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
And yeah, yeah, funny when I when I talked to Mike,
He's like, yeah, I'll talk to you for it, but
I'm not talking about the Goo.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Dolls that I'm like, yep, And then yeah, it's like,
how am I going to navigate this.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Hard not to talk about?

Speaker 7 (31:19):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (31:20):
You know what was a giant part of your life.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
You know that was like eighteen years right, Oh god? Yeah,
so yeah that's crazy. So you Sawrvana in Fort Worth?

Speaker 5 (31:31):
Yeah, there were maybe five people there.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Wow, was that like Bleach or.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
Must have been Yeah it was Bleach.

Speaker 5 (31:40):
That was Bleach.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, five people there and because it was like, uh
real spur of the moment, and I didn't even go
that night. I didn't know that they were playing because
it was not really announced except I think the week
of they put out a little flyer yea, And I
was going to school and working and I was like, shit,

(32:02):
I can't be at this club every night to see
all these bands, because that one night it was just
like steel Pole, Bathtub and like all these band Flaming
Lips I think was even there that week. So all
these bands every night were there and I was like
I had to pick my poison and I didn't go
see Dirvana and I hate that.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
So did you ever see him? Oh yeah, yeah, okay,
yeah I never saw Sad.

Speaker 5 (32:28):
Yeah, I saw him at.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
That Tree show where the infamous the infamous Tree Show.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah you were there for that one.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
Yeah, we're Turner a friend of mine chased a curtain
to the tax cab.

Speaker 5 (32:46):
Yeah, oh that was the you know the guy, Yeah Turner.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
You know, he's a bouncer at the club. He always
took take care of us we played, made sure I
didn't get kicked in the face. Yeah. Oh god, poor
poor Kurt scared. It was really scared. It got it
got out of hand quick. But that was that was fun.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
That's awesome.

Speaker 4 (33:13):
So when you were all working in the record store together,
what what kinds of stuff were you all listening to
at that point?

Speaker 3 (33:20):
Oh man, we all had really different tastes of music,
and I think that's what makes everything really cool.

Speaker 5 (33:29):
So Charles, our guitar player, was way into uh.

Speaker 7 (33:36):
He was.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
We all liked well Pod didn't. Charles and I like
punk rock, so we would go see punk rock shows.
The Bubble Surfers were huge on our list, but Charles
was deeper into it. So the bubble Surfers and uh
uh gv H and uh Dead Kennedy's and like anything

(34:03):
that was punk rock Charles had and I kind of
let him lead the way and like, Okay, which which
record should I get? And uh, I liked, God, this
is gonna sound so crazy. I loved new wave music. Yeah,
I really did so. I loved uh uh loving Rockets

(34:25):
and uh Jesus and Mary Chaine, The Cure and that
kind of stuff. And when the Pixies came out, Surfer
Rosa blew my fucking mind and.

Speaker 5 (34:43):
We played that album non stop.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
That was that would be one like after all the
managers that uh would gripe about it after they left,
we would put that on and it stayed on all night.
We'd just like keep flipping it over. And that Pixies
album is what really really really made me want to

(35:08):
play oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (35:11):
But oddly enough, Charles and I were talking about this
the other day. When we.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
When we first started talking about the band, about doing
anything where it might become something, we were at a
Smitheren show. It was Todd Carls and myself and we
were watching.

Speaker 5 (35:31):
The Smithereens and we're like, man, we all kind of
like each other.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
And that's when we first got to kind of talking
about it, before I got the invitation.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
To join a great band.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
Oh my god, right, so many yeah and underrated. Yeah,
And we were at a Smithereen show and that's where
it was. There was a for they having some kind
of sound problems. So in between the opening band, who
I don't remember, in the Smithereens, we were sitting at
a bar top table.

Speaker 5 (36:06):
Drinking beer and it was all like, and we all
really get along.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
It's pretty cool, and we all have the same kind
of taste of music, even though we don't listen to
the same bands. Todd loves seventies music. I could hear
that Thin Lizzy and Bad Finger and Fucking Bad Company
and a C d C. Which we all love that too.

(36:33):
It's just that, you know, we listened to that and
then we're like, Okay, we're moving on to this next thing.
We're always chasing the next Charles and I were always
trying to find what the next thing is, and like,
you know, hey, have you heard this? And Todd was like,
I'm okay, back here, if you want to share something
with me, we're good. But I'll be listening to Thin Lizzy.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
I could you know, I can hear a little bit
of that classic rock influence in some of the stuff.
Doesn't surprise me.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, yeah, totally. In fact, when we made Rubberneck, it
was the intention that we recorded like a c DC
back in Black was recorded, so the guitars are uh
hand exactly like that. And when we recorded it, we
recorded a lot of it live to capture live feeling,

(37:20):
and then went back in and did over dubs and stuff.
So yeah, we wanted it to have that live a
c DC feel.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Wow, those a CDC records sound incredible. Yes, they still
sound incredible.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
We we tried to talk to mut about doing our record,
but he was busy, so wow, he was on the
dream list.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, I can imagine that would be an interesting one,
and he did.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
So.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
Were you a Cars fan of the Cars then too?
So yeah, yeah, with your new wave stuff, that had
to be somewhere in there. So yeah, you've got you've
got the a C C and the Cars with the mutt.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yeah, it's just you know, just a plus you know,
you mix in Uh.

Speaker 5 (38:13):
Charles was a huge Kiss fan when he was kid
growing up.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
Uh, and then I had the Soul thing, so it
was just perfect mix actually, you know, and we found
some kind of vortex where we all met.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Well, I think that's interesting when you do that.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
You've got people in a band that all have different tastes,
at least some of you, because then you know, inevitably
you always have this kind of going towards something when
a song is written, but then when it starts getting
you know, everybody's adding their stamp on. It's like that's
where you become who you are, and not like, oh,
that's kind of derivative of whatever, you know what I mean. Yeah,

(38:50):
So it's cool to have all those different influences for
that reason that it's just not like another knockoff band.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Yeah, I mean, if you're The one weird thing with
us that Charles and I never could understand is Charles
and I were like huge fans of music, like big fans,
like crazy rabid fans almost, you know, and went to

(39:20):
concerts and did all this stuff. And Todd was not
that at all.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
What was he updude?

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yeah he would He's a freaking artist man.

Speaker 5 (39:34):
He would write and read and we were.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Just like, dude, you don't want to go to these
shows and he's like, no, I'm good. And he wouldn't
buy a lot of records, Like even when we were
on the road, we were buying all sorts of records
and collectors stuff, and he just never did that. He
was like, I'm okay with what I got. We're good.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Any favorite record stores while you're out on the road.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
Oh man, I don't know if any so in Uh
it's still around, and this is why I'm gonna name it.
I'm sorry. My dogs are freaking fighting now are playing
Waterloo in Austin.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Ah love Waterloo.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
I will still draw. I will still make a pilgrimage
there and go to Waterloo. Everything else I'm old and
I don't my brain doesn't function. I can't remember some
of the stores. But we went great record stores because
if you're lucky enough to be on a major label,
your marketing folks show up and take you record shopping

(40:39):
on their dime. Actually it ends up being on your dime, really,
isn't it. You gotta pay it back.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Recoup.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
Set.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Yeah so I get, you know, like the Who box set.
But yeah so, uh man, we got to visit a
bunch of good record stores. So yeah, I mean we
went there like a couple of months ago because we're like,
gotta go to Waterloo, and they just I don't know,

(41:12):
just they find stuff or uh yeah. So that's the
perfect thing about Waterloo, that's the best way to describe it.
They find stuff for me because we're still all about
the discovery of new music like we were when we
were kids, and I can show up and they will
have something I've never heard of, and I'm like, oh, fuck,

(41:34):
this is great. And the people that work there know
about it and they're like, yes, you will love this.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
I love that it feels like it's harder to do these.

Speaker 4 (41:44):
Yes, that's why you're still Yeah, what you that you've
gotten into that's maybe a little newer.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
Let's see.

Speaker 5 (41:56):
Okay, I know that this is very controversial, but I
love idols.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
They're fun and and it just reminds me of when
I first started listening to the you know, happy punk rock. Yeah,
and Charles and I went to the idol shows here
in Dallas and it was fucking great and h and

(42:27):
there were no fights and everyone was happy. And it
reminded me of when I was young and I went.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
To the shows, the punt rock shows, where everybody just
gave each other a hug and hung out.

Speaker 5 (42:37):
That's exactly what it was, and I was like, man,
this is the way it's supposed to be.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
But quite honestly, I've been going down memory lane because
all of these bands are touring again.

Speaker 5 (42:50):
Yeah, haven't toured in years.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
And I've got to see him because there's something in
the back of my brain's going might not get to
see him get you know.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, I've missed out on a few of those from
waiting too long. Tom Petty being one of them. I'm
like every time he come, like next time, and.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
I'm like yeah, And I kept doing that, and so
I'm so glad I went to go see Jane's Addiction.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah, yeah, right under the wire.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
But Love and Rockets opened up and they were great.
So it was and that was the thing that took
me over at the top. I was like, Love and
Rockets and Jane's Addiction, Yeah, but they were great. We
toured with Dave when he was in the Chili Peppers.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Oh nice.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
So I considered Dave just like one of the one
of the best humans in the world.

Speaker 5 (43:47):
I love him.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
He's my old bandmate. Was at a coffee shop in
the suburbs one morning. It was my roommate at the time,
and he called me and he's like, I just left
Caribou Coffee and Dave Navarro was standing behind me and
are you sure it was him? And then he laughed
at He's like yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
You know when Dave Navarro standing behind me. He's he's
a good dude.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
I love him.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
I hate what happened. I have a big opinion about it,
but it's it sucks. I hate that for the band.
And Eric Avery is one of my favorite bass players. Man,
that guy. Oh he's so good. I love his bass lines.
But uh, well s I oh, okay, I'm going to

(44:44):
see Jesus Priest in a couple of weeks. Neither of
I neither have I and I never saw any of
the metal bands when I was younger because I didn't
really listen to metals. So I'm going to see Iron
Maiden in a couple of months and Judas Priest and uh,

(45:07):
two weeks ago I saw. You're gonna laugh because I'm
just going to shows as many as I can. I
saw Ministry, Alice Cooper and Rob Zombie.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah that was just here and I didn't go.

Speaker 4 (45:20):
I've seen Alice Cooper and I have a White Zombie
story for you shortly here as well.

Speaker 5 (45:25):
Please tell me the White Zombie story.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
This is this is sad, This is real sad. Right,
So I, as a teenager one ticket to see White Zombie.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
Yeah, and I was you know, I was in North Dakota.
I wasn't like a huge White Zombie fan, but I
was like rock concert. It was an hour and a
half away from where I lived. My friends and I
are going to go. And I was a pretty good
decent student. But what I would typically do in high schools,
I would dig myself a nice hole and then I
would climb out of it by the end of it,

(45:57):
and then I'd get a good grade. But about the
mid period, my grades where I was trash. So we
get a midterm report sent to my parents where my
grades were not good, and they took away my White
Zombie ticket and I gave it to my friend Mike,
the one who saw Dave Navarro at the coffee shop
by the way. He's in a band called the Koch
Shakedown here, and gave him the ticket and he went

(46:20):
and he came back and he told me how glorious
the show was. Bismarck Civic Center. I mean, you know
where I'm going with this, ye what Bobby Tody's and
the Supersickers.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
That was a good one.

Speaker 7 (46:38):
That was.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
That was the show that mom, if you're listening, so
that freaking show. So I love that tour so much
because we went to places that no one else was
going yea, and and in Bismarck, they had a hockey
rink that was is right next to the stage. Yeah,

(47:04):
over there they had some ice and I brought my
ice skates and uh on that tour because I knew
we were going up north. I was like, I'm gonna
freak skate and uh while White Zombie was playing, I
skated on practice ice that was right to the side
of the stage. So I watched White Zombie and skated

(47:26):
on the practical practice ice.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
The only person that has ever said that that sentence.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
Right, It was freaking cool. It was like all the
lights and everything were going. I'm just like skating. It
was great.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
Well, I can't wait to tell Mike now that you
were ice skating what White Zombie was playing, because I
told him. I told him I was talking to you
and I remember and you took my tickets. He's like, oh, yeah,
that's a great show, like you ashole.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Man.

Speaker 5 (47:53):
Rob, that's another good guy, Rob Zombie.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
I mean, most musicians I think are reading and I people,
you know, in the most part. I mean, there's some
a holes running around there, but most musicians are nice
and Rob Zombie was one of those guys I didn't
expect to be nice.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Yeah, because he's scary.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
He looks scary and you hear things about him, you know,
and he was. He was super nice. I loved him.
He was a good guy.

Speaker 7 (48:23):
So that was.

Speaker 5 (48:24):
That was a lot of fun that tour.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
That Well tour was great, Like I said, getting to
go to places, uh that no other tour has been on.
I thought that was. I asked him about that. I
was like, why are you going to to North Dakota
and stuff? He's like, no one goes here.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
Oh yeah, no one.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
I got those tickets. I was like, White Tommy's fine
rock show. We're going Like that was yeah. I saw
a Panterra.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
I'm not a Panterra fan, but.

Speaker 5 (48:55):
I because it's a show, right show?

Speaker 3 (48:59):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, That's what I've been doing. I was like,
I'm going to as many shows as possible. I don't know, like,
are we gonna have another shutdown sometime? Who knows? So
I'm like I'm gonna see as many as I can.
These guys are getting older. Yeah, I'm getting older. It's
hard for me to get out sometimes, but yeah, I'm

(49:20):
gonna see as many shows as I can.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Well, who else did you tour with back then?

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Oh? God, the one that we hated.

Speaker 5 (49:28):
Oh, you know, we talked about all the good guys,
the people that we hated.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Oh, here's the dirt, here's the dirt.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Bush. We had to go out with two on two
tours with Bush, and they are they were such dicks.
Our record company made us because we're on the same label,
and uh, the first tour we're like, this is horrible.

(49:56):
We're getting off. We're gonna go tour someone we like.
And then our record company is like, no, no, we
need you to go back out with Bush because it
made it easier for them to promote.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
They were enormous for that moment.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Yeah, both bands were on the same radio stations, so
they wanted it, you know, more bang for the bucks.
So both bands out together. So they bribed us with
the tour bus. Because we're still driving ourselves.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Okay, we didn't.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
We were frugal and we bought a van with our
advance money and uh, we did not have any crew.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
It's probably a smart move look back, And we.

Speaker 5 (50:38):
Drove ourselves and.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Then when we well, I can't I guess it was
the Yeah, it was the bush tour where we finally
got the tour bus. But before we got the tour bus,
they made us get a roadie. They made us because
they here's the from the record company. The kids don't
want to see you breaking down your own gear. It's

(51:04):
making the kids sad.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
That is the best, right, the kids sad because we.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Didn't fucking care. We didn't want anyone touching our guitars
and stuff. And you know, we're we didn't care that
we didn't have crew. We're showing up playing these big
theaters and we'd show up, set up our stuff, do
a sound you know, check the line and uh, and
then play and the kids are like, oh, that's the band. Yeah,

(51:38):
but yeah, record company said that it was the U
that it's making the kids sad, and then our A
and R guy said, it makes it look like we're
not taking care of you guys.

Speaker 5 (51:48):
And I was like, you guys aren't really, I mean, really.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
We're paying, we're getting we have to recoup right on.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
But yeah, we gotta We got a tour bus. And
here's the kiss tie in again. We got Kisses old
tour bus.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Oh that's pretty awesome.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
It was fucking awesome. It was red patent leather all
over the ceiling and it, you know, the the what
do they call that, like on the seats where they
put the buttons in it.

Speaker 5 (52:22):
It's tucked and have the buttons whatever that's called.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
So from from the sofas all the way around the
ceiling red fake leather, and then in the very back
of the bus was their makeup areas. So it was
tables with all the big bull blights all the way
around where they put their makeup on. Oh.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
That that's kind of awesome.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
It was great. It was great.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
I hope you didn't get Jeene Simmons's bunk.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Though, right, who knows that bus melt funky?

Speaker 5 (52:56):
Anyway, it had issues.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Yeah, we were all huh. I don't know which one
it was, but all of them were pretty.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Yeah, it's probably better not to know.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
Yeah, no one should know.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
I don't think you in no matter which way, but
Jean's is probably the one I'd want the least.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Yeah, I think so too.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
You're right, that's funny. I'm actually speaking of the Bismarcks Civicca.
I saw Kiss there probably a year after your show,
and they did the first reunion thing so I did.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
I was able to go to that one, got the
grades Peter.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
Was that the one with Peter Criss Back and Ace?

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, it was the first reunion actually had everybody was
pretty fun.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
I saw that one. That was good.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
Ace wasn't ice skating or anything, but man, why he
was looking He was out there looking for his bus.
That's hilarious. So how long were you in that band?

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Quite a while? Your Yeah, well.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
From nineteen eighty nine to two thousand and four.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
Wow, long time, long time.

Speaker 4 (54:11):
So you were you were on both the major label records,
because I know there was a big yeah, a big
delay between those two records.

Speaker 7 (54:18):
Right.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
If my history is your.

Speaker 5 (54:21):
History is right.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
Here's the thing that sucks. We got off the road.
We let our guitar player go, let our lead guitar
player go, Darryl, which I think was a bad idea,
got a new guitar player and.

Speaker 5 (54:42):
Started writing the next record.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
And we went into the studio with Paul Leary from
the Surfers, and he had just done the Sublime album,
which sounded great, and.

Speaker 5 (54:59):
There was a a lot of pressure to write the
next record.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
And the weird thing, Nick, is our record company was
was they wanted us to be mad and everything was
pretty kick ass, and we wrote happy songs and they
didn't like it. And so they were like, yeah, keep

(55:24):
going back, keep going back, and they're like, kids don't
want the happy songs.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
So what year was this? This was probably later nineties.

Speaker 5 (55:32):
Right, yeah, late nineties okay, So yeah, nineteen ninety seven, we're.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
Starting to get to the angry, the angry late nineties.

Speaker 5 (55:48):
Yeah, and so we went we went back, wrote some
angry songs.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
All of them were about Bush or the record company
seriously not totally fucking serious, and.

Speaker 5 (56:02):
We went in with Paul Leary and recorded and uh,
they didn't like them.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
And uh later the Toty's Without Me and it released
that album as Feeler, because that album is called Feeler, okay,
and uh, I think that album is great.

Speaker 5 (56:23):
I think it totally captures, uh uh.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
What we learned on the road, you know.

Speaker 4 (56:30):
And and that record is the original one you that
was released was the one that was recorded back then.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
It wasn't re recorded.

Speaker 5 (56:37):
There are both of those exist.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
They did go back and re record it with a
new bass player, but uh, the the one that came
out that the record company released Hell below Stars above yeah,
it's still a fucking happy.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Record, even with Elliott Smith on it. It's happy. Yeah, yeah,
but that always blew my mind. When I said Elliott
Smith was.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
On that, I was like, yeah, but it's you know,
it's got some melancholy to it as well, because I
think we were all kind of realizing that the band
was going to break up soon. Uh it was there
was we weren't hanging out as much, and uh yeah

(57:26):
it was. You know, we got a new guitar player
that uh for me, you know, I didn't get along
with him as well, and uh, it was just it
was just different. Things were changing, Yeah, things were changing.
And uh and then when we went out to tour

(57:46):
for Help Below Stars Above, the record company was just
not supporting it at all, and uh we were paying
for the tour out of our own pockets. That's when
I was like, man, I'm out. I don't want to
do this anymore. And uh I decided I would go out.
H Well, I still felt good about everything, you know, Yeah,

(58:08):
forgot ugly and uh I did, and I just never
looked back. I felt good about it good.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Yeah, I had a hard decision, you know, but damn
it was.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
I mean there were tears shed all of them all around,
you know, all of us. So it was, uh, it
was hard on all of us.

Speaker 5 (58:31):
Uh yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
They still still chat with everybody for the most part,
or I don't.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
So that's the weird thing because after after all of that, uh,
God got hard feelings about it, and and I don't
want to analyze it. And I really can't talk about
it because the lawsuits. But uh uh, Todd and I

(59:01):
had a big falling out after that, and I don't
talk to the other, like Mark the drummer, he's he
and I are still really good friends, but I don't
want to make it weird for him, yeah, cause any
problems for him. But the good thing is is, uh,
the original guitar player, Charles Mooney and I got back together,

(59:25):
started a band cool called.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Yes Cool Yeah and.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Soul Shifter, and then we decided, let's do a podcast
and talk about music. We started a podcast, and we
started this podcast called Jackalope Tales and it's all of
our crazy stories we've heard on the road and more.
You know, it's the urban legends of music kind of.

Speaker 5 (01:00:00):
Kiss. So yeah, so we're doing that. We still want
to talk about music.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
We still want to hang out together, and this is
a good excuse for usta hang out together.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Nice. How often are are you playing a lot of
shows doing a lot of recording? What does that look like?

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
We're not doing any shows right now. I injured my
hand at work and messed it up where I was
unable to play for a while, and while I was healing,
all of the clubs in Fort Worth shut down. They closed,

(01:00:37):
so there was really no place to play, and as
a band, we decided, hell, let's let's put it on
the shelf for a bit, and so it happens. So yeah,
so we're not really playing music right now, but who
knows what would happen, because we've been talking about it

(01:01:01):
a lot. Yeah, and we're still a right good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Well, what's what's next? What's what's coming up down the line?
More music podcasts?

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Right now, we're really really focused on the podcast. It's
doing well. It's like good, doing really well. And you know,
it's freaking fun. That's the main thing. I mean, I
hope you feel the same way when you're doing the podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Right, Yeah, it's super fun.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Yeah, And I'm getting to do this with a friend,
my best friend, and uh, you know, we sit by
each other and crack each other up every day. Yeah. Nice,
that's the best.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
That's really cool.

Speaker 4 (01:01:47):
Yeah, it's it's funny about the podcast thing because I
did it, so this is actually I'm going to call
it the four year anniversary show because four years this week,
so there you go, Yes, thank you. I started it
during COVID because there's nothing to do. So I just
saw myself like, well, I just started talking to people,

(01:02:09):
and I'm well, I'll ask so and so, oh you will, okay,
And I did it every once a week for over
a year, and then now it's like now I'm doing
them once in a while because I'm just like trying
to keep up with once a week is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
With everything else going in life is a little broader, right.

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
And and COVID is you know, it's not sitting around
your house all day long anymore. So, but it's funny
about the podcast, and it sounds like you've got kind
of a similar thing going with people.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
You said it's very successful and people are checking it out.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
I was telling somebody earlier who just started listening to this,
I'm like, yeah, it's funny. We'll go play a show somewhere.
I'll play in Chicago, or we did a thing in
LA and random people will walk up to me and go,
so on that one episode when you talk to so
and so and I'm going, wait, the podcast isn't supposed
to outshine the music, but it's actually funny because you

(01:03:07):
start to realize how many people actually listen to these things. Yeah,
so it's kind of amazing and kind of fun. And
I'm a big Mark Maron fan. I don't know if
you listen to Maren Oh yeah, I listened to him constantly,
and I'm not one that skips the first fifteen minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
In fact, those are usually my favorite parts.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
When yeah, well, speaking of music, when are you guys
coming to Texas again, because I, oh my gosh, I
heard a bumper where you're saying that you're playing like
a singer songwriter thing in Austin.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Oh yeah, that never happened. I was going to play
in Austin In. Uh yeah it was.

Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
It was COVID related why it didn't happen, But I
can't remember. It's some club there that had a lot
of clowns in it. That's how I remember the name
of it, which sounds a little creepy, but yeah, Unfortunately
that show never happened because of that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
So but yeah, we do a lot of Midwest stuff.
I've I've done a thing in New.

Speaker 4 (01:04:03):
York and and we've done a few things in California,
but it's usually a lot of We do a lot
of Chicago because it's down the road, you know, five
six hours, so it's fairly easy. But yeah, but you know,
i'd love to get done. Yeah, no, that would be awesome.
Do you know Mark Solomon at all? You probably do?

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
Oh, yes, yes, yes, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Yeah, because he's a he's also a mic guy. Everybody.
Everybody knows Mike.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
But now we've talked about doing some stuff at some
point with him, too soon because he's got a band
down there, so he and his wife have a thing.
So hopefully sooner or later we get down there be.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
Really I hope you do.

Speaker 5 (01:04:43):
Don't come during the summer though.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
I've been in I've been in that area in uh
I think it was August and it was pretty rough.
So yeah, but awesome. Well, if you ever find yourself
in Minneapolis, to let me know, but I will hit
you up or something.

Speaker 5 (01:05:01):
Yeah, I would love.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
I have not been up there in a while, but
I sure do love it. I have a friend who
just recently moved up there and I was so jealous.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Yeah, Oh it's awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:05:13):
It's we had like maybe two days of snow last year,
which was kind of scary and bizarre but kind of nice. Yeah,
and now I'm just like everybody says, well, this winter
is gonna be awful, and I'm like, well, it's seventy
and it's October and I don't know what's happening, right,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Know, but it's it's seventies, so.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
So good when it's not freezing. But it sounds like
you have ice skates, so you might enjoy it. I mean, yeah,
I would appreciate you being on in chat with me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
It was a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Yeah, I appreciate you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Yeah, likewise, that was fun. All right? Thanks Nick, take care.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
You do stop.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Lisa Umbarger from the Toadies, How fun was that. She's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
I am a big fan of Lisa. Really enjoyed chatting
with her. It's very open. Wasn't afraid to rip on bush.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Thank you for tuning in to the fourth anniversary episode
of Figure Eights.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
From Studio twenty four. I am Nick leet to see
you next time.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
Scared we leave the funds that rich.

Speaker 9 (01:07:04):
Don't let some test of fris stop right there.

Speaker 7 (01:07:10):
You've been going on to day.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
I listen to these things you say, stop right there.

Speaker 7 (01:07:23):
You ben't going on so long.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
You would take it to your father wisted him. It's
hardy stay.

Speaker 7 (01:07:49):
She doesn't help class, she doesn't.

Speaker 9 (01:07:53):
Need much hell, but you tell anything you have to care.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
She likes a mat her.

Speaker 7 (01:08:00):
Kick yourself.

Speaker 9 (01:08:02):
I've been chasing the knives all the rest of my life.
I don't never most choice of man to reclose.

Speaker 7 (01:08:13):
Man. Stop that there.

Speaker 9 (01:08:17):
You been Collington the days I've listened to the fake.

Speaker 7 (01:08:26):
Stop that that you've been calling now so no you
would take or take your honor. Listen, it's hard. You

(01:09:10):
can't calling calling me, You keep calling calling me. You
just ting ting, You just taller to you, taly totaling me.

(01:09:41):
You can't t dolling me. You can call jar you
can probably