Figure Eights (A Music Podcast) - Episode 71 w_ Don Hardy (Award winning Filmmaker)

Join me as I chat with award winning filmmaker, Don Hardy. We talk about his new music doc, "Linda Perry - Let it Die Here." It's a fantastic and courageous documentary. We discuss legacy in a disposable culture, living in the moment, taking chances and work results vs self worth. It's a great episode. Hope you dig it as much as I did.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You are listening to the Figure Eights podcast. I'm your
host Nick Leet from the band High on Stress Sadam Minneapolis, Minnesota,
and today's guest is award winning filmmaker Don Hardy.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Out of the Bay Area.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
You may remember a few episodes back, I had Jim Brunzell.
He's the director of the Sound Unseen Film Festival, and
he graciously had me attend a couple of the movies,
one being the Devo film, which was fantastic, and then
Linda Perry's Let It Die Here, which was made by

(00:45):
Don and Don and Linda were both in attendance, and
after seeing this film, I'm like, I need to talk
to Don because that movie was fantastic. No, I didn't
know a lot about Linda Perry. Knew four non Blonde,
knew she wrote hit songs for pop artists, married to
Sarah Gilbert. At one time, I didn't really know know

(01:05):
Linda Perry. And when you watch this film, you will
know a lot about Linda Perry. Very open, courageous, and awesome.
I walked out of there a fan, and I hope
you'll all watch it because I think it was just
a fantastic film. And I told Don one of the
best music documentaries I've ever seen, and coming in, like

(01:26):
I said, Linda Perry right walking out of that, just
amazed by her, her struggle, her process, the whole works.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
The thing was fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
So, without further ado, I give you Don Hardy.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Are you back back home again? Yeah? Back in the
Bay Area for a couple of weeks after a whirlwind.
I was in LA and then Minnesota, than Portland and
then back and yeah, just trying to kind of get
things tidied up before the end of the year. Nice.

(02:10):
How was the trip? Was it all for the Linda
Perry doc. Yeah? Yeah, in Minneapolis and Portland, Yes, and
then there's this new one where I think it's starting
to embark on. It's kind of about some some folks
in Ukraine and musicians that they pulled up to fight.

(02:31):
And so that was what I was in LA for. Gotcha? Gotcha?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Well, I was at the Linda Perry Dock at the
Parkway in Minneapolis. I took my daughter to it. She's
a big she's eleven. She's a big music head. Loves singing.
Any any female artist she gets even more excited about.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
So I'm like, you know what you know, I had
Jim Brunzell on here a couple of weeks prior, so
that's why I was.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
You know, I checked it out and I'm like, this movie, Like,
I kind of want to do it, you know. I
like Linda Perry all right, don't know much about her story,
and then I.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
I was floored by this thing.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
I couldn't believe how good it was, and so I
was like, I need to talk to Don so I
appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Wow, I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, thank you, thanks for
making time to come see it, and yeah, I'm really
proud of the film. And as we said on stage,
I think, you know, it became a lot about just
sort of the two of us in a room, you know,
sort of me there listening as she kind of walked

(03:34):
through all of the twist and turns of her life,
and in some ways a lot of her The question
she was asking and the situation with her family that
was unfolding mirrored mine in many ways, and so I
think it was. Yeah, it was profound for both of
us and something will probably carry with us for a

(03:56):
long time. Yeah. So how long you've been in filmmaking?
You know, I started my career as a journalist. I
worked for in TV news for Fox, Fox, NBC, ABC
affiliates in New York and South Florida, and then made
my way to California in the early two thousands, and

(04:18):
this is where I met a couple of people that
also shared my interest in documentary filmmaking, and we did
a couple of things for the news, and then somewhere
around like two thousand and five, got the idea to
try to make make something independently. And yeah, and since then,

(04:39):
you know, so we're coming up on almost twenty years
of making documentaries and I've directed I believe nine features
and a whole bunch of shorts and a series for
Disney plus so been added a while and finally kind of,
you know, I feel like I know it I'm doing.

(05:00):
But these these things always have a way of sneaking
up and surprising you too.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, I bet that's probably the fun part, right, You're
going down the line one way, and then the curveballs
are usually the really interesting stuff that you did well.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
To me, that's what makes it interesting when you're trying
to pitch somebody on something. If you're trying to pitch
them to get you know, financing, They want to know
all of the beats of the story. And what I
guess I've learned over the years is just make it
up because it's never going to be what you think
it's going to be, but you know, sort of put
the perfect world scenario together and who knows, maybe it'll

(05:37):
maybe it'll come close, or maybe it'll you know, surpass
what you could even dream up. Gotcha, what were you
doing there? Pretty much videographer, but started doing a lot
of producing, and you know, I think it's in many
ways good training for this because you have to be
able to change really quickly on the fly. You've got

(05:57):
to adapt to what the story is actually what is
happening versus whatever the producer fantasia was that when you
went out that morning. So shooting and editing is where
I really started doing this, and back then there was
it was in a time before nonlinear editing too, which
is almost laughable at this point because you can edit

(06:21):
stuff on your phone and rearrange it and do whatever. Right. Yeah,
but that's how I started, and I worked with some
really good reporters and producers along the way and just
tried to pick up as much as I could from them,
And you know, I always had this really profound interest

(06:42):
in documentary film that goes way back to when I
was I don't know, twelve or thirteen years old and
I saw The Thin Blue Line, Air Morris's film about
the Men in Texas that was on death row for
the murder of a police officer, and something about that
movie just really connected it. It was cinematically very interesting, but

(07:06):
the power, you know, the story with that is when
the film came out, it helped get a man, the
Men released from death row, and it just felt like
such a powerful thing, like, wow, a film, could you
do that or at least really helped do that. And
my father was a big news junkie, so you know,

(07:27):
I think those two things set me on a path
of like I didn't know how to get into film
from my small town in upstate New York, but I,
you know, through a friend, ended up getting into a
newsroom and just really loved the energy of that and
the idea that we were doing some good. That's cool.
What did your parents do? My dad was a school

(07:47):
teacher and my mom an insurance agent. Gotcha. Okay, so
pretty normal folks, but it was really Yeah, my dad's
interest in the news that I think pulled me in
And yeah, I was right there too. Yeah, I just
turned fifty this year, and I do remember the early

(08:11):
eighties when when cable first kicked off and suddenly we
had the idea of the twenty four hour news cycle.
Feels like it's been there for me since I was
ten years old at this point, you know, and now
it's become this whole other thing where it's people aren't
even getting their news there, apparently they're getting it from

(08:32):
TikTok and interesting.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
So were your parents pretty supportive of your move into
working these types of jobs or what was that like
early on?

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Well, yeah, they were very supportive of my career in
the news industry. They like that, you know, these are
big brands, you know, ABC, C, NBC, things that they knew.
But when I when I was ready to, you know,
deep into making my first feature doc, when I realized

(09:05):
I couldn't really juggle the full time job and do that,
and we were getting some really interesting connections that we
were making on the on the film, the most notable
being Sean Penn. A friend of us had connected us
to him, and Sean had agreed to come out and
narrate that film, and I just felt like, there's no

(09:28):
way I'm going to be able to do that well
and hold down this fifty hour week job. And so
at that point, I remember talking to my folks and
just saying, and they're like, you're really gonna leave NBC
to go chase this. It was certainly a little little
foreign to them, for you know, people that really you know,
value that bedroom, you know, a steady paycheck of flour

(09:48):
oh one k and things like that. But yeah, I
think they knew that I was going to do it,
and I'd always wanted to be involved in film, So
they didn't stand in the way. And I was three
miles away, so there wasn't much they could They couldn't
get in your way. Literally, Yeah, and I was incredibly fortunate.
A friend of mine was also contemplating leaving the news business,

(10:12):
and she was moving over to work for a local
water district, and she offered me, you know, this is
again like two and four, two thousand and five, when
the term at that point was rich media content. It
was one of the things that she'd been asked to
do for this water district to create the rich media content.

(10:33):
So she said, would you come over and do video work,
you know, for me at this district and you can
do it like part time and it'll give you time
to finish your film. And I did it good. And
that was you know, living in San Francisco Bay Area,
it's not a cheap place to live. So yeah, it

(10:55):
was scary, you know, it was. I had a good
job going at NBC. We were doing a business and
technology show every week that was syndicated to several markets.
You know. I was doing a lot of the investigative stuff,
so it was a good job. But yeah, it was
the right time and forces aligned and picked the plunge.

(11:16):
And I feel incredibly fortunate to live now, almost twenty
years as a documentary filmmaker, still doing you know, corporate
stuff things like that to help pay the bills. But yeah,
I feel very lucky.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
That's awesome. And what was that first movie? Was that
the Sean Penn movie that you were Yeah, it's a.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Film called witch Hunt, and it is about the wrongful
conviction of a bunch of working class folks in Bakersfield, California,
in the early eighties. They were caught up in in
the satanic panic of the time and accused of horrible
crimes against children, in many cases their own children, and

(11:54):
all of them were locked up in prison for up
to twenty years. And so when my filmmaking partner early
on is a woman named Dana Knackman. When Dana and
I first found out about this story, we did it
as a series of reports of will the main guy,
his name is John, so will he get out of prison?

(12:16):
And we did it as a series for NBC San
Francisco and followed it all the way through, and John
ultimately gets exonerated and released from prison, and we would
hang out with him from time to time, and he
didn't know many people having spent twenty years in prison,
so we befriended him, and he started telling us about

(12:38):
all of these other people that went through similar case
to his, and our station didn't want to follow it anymore.
They'd done their part on it, I guess, and they
saw that it was outside of their target market, and
so we said, well, let's try to Let's try to
do this as an independent documentary, not knowing anything really

(13:02):
about the film business other than having some belief that
we knew how to tell a compelling story. So we
set out trying to do it. And this friend of
ours who had become friendly with Sean Penn, heard about
it at some time when we were early in production

(13:22):
and just was encouraging us, like, oh, something my friend
Sean would be interested in. And we're like, that's great,
but he's never going to be interested in right, Yeah,
that sounds great. He was just coming off of Dead
Man Walking and we knew about his activism and he
just kept encouraging us, and we didn't wait. We just

(13:45):
kept making the movie, but you know, putting it on
credit cards, you know, doing all of that stuff. And
then it fairly late in the process, I think we
already had a solid rough cut of the film. We
finally did get the call that Sean was going to
watch it and invited us up to his house and

(14:08):
you know, walked in the door and he said, this
is an amazing piece of work. I'd love to be involved.
And you know, that just took it to a whole
other place. Who could end up going to a huge
film festival and selling it and it really, you know,
it was a dream come true. And we didn't know
at that time just how rare something like that is
that the pieces would come together as they as they did,

(14:32):
but that you know, and because of that, the film
I Believe came out in two thousand and eight, and
it led me on this path to try to pay
Sean back for believing in me when me and us
when in our film when he didn't have to. That's
what led me to Haiti in twenty ten, when he

(14:54):
went there after the earthquake to try to do some
good and then you know, ten years later I ended
up making a movie about that, stayed stayed friends with
him over over the decades now. So it's been interesting,
interesting ride, right.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
So when you're making these movies, especially early on, how
do you go about funding? You mentioned credit cards, but
do you actively go out and try to find somebody
to fund the thing or what's what's that process like
for anyone listening who's like, you know what, I want
to do the thing and I don't know Sean Penn?

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Sure, well yeah, I think that. Yeah. I get asked
this from time to time now because I have been
doing it for a while and I don't think there's
one right way for you know, we've done them all,
from putting them on our credit cards to crowdfunding to
grants to going more traditional funding, you know, roots and

(15:52):
now I'm producing a couple of flicks for people, and
it's the same struggle over and over again. It's never
easy to find money. But I've always looked at it
like your potential investors are in a couple of buckets.
You have your friends and family. They kind of have
to kick in because they owe you one, and you've

(16:13):
probably donated to their bake sale or whatever they're doing.
So you have them, and then you have the folks
that really believe in the issue at the core of
the story you're telling, and a lot of times that's enough.
And when you're doing something about a wrongful conviction, or
we did a movie called The Human Experiment about chemicals

(16:36):
and their effects on human health, there's a lot of
people that really believe strongly in that issue, and so
you can set it up as as a donation through
like a there's a thing called the five oh one
c threes that like an umbrella that you can be
under so you can get the money and they can

(16:58):
get the donation credit. There's a lot of different ways
to do it, but at the core of it, I
think it comes back to the story that you're trying
to tell and your passion for telling it, and if
you're not incredibly passionate about it in a way that
like I just it keeps me up at night. I
know I have to tell this you probably it's going

(17:20):
to be really tough to see it through. But if
you approach it from that, I have to figure out
a way to do this. The upshot upside right now
is cameras are cheaper than they were fifteen years ago
by far. Editing software is virtually free now. Da Vinci
Resolve is an amazing set a tool got It's free. Yeah,
so there are a lot of ways to get them

(17:43):
made in avenues in which to distribute them if you're
not trying to make a bunch of money from it.
That's the part that people don't talk about a lot.
With the democratization of filmmaking that people do like to
talk about it. Anybody can do it, and I'm not
here to paint a rosy pitch sure of the other side.
You know, how do you monetize this, get you and

(18:03):
your crew paid back and let alone maybe make some
make a few dollars. That's really hard right now. Business
is constricting. The big streamers control everything and they're they're
not acquiring many titles from independent producers. So it's something
in my circles that gets talked about a lot, like, great,

(18:24):
we can make these and maybe we can get them
into a top tier festival. But then still, you know,
where does it go? It's a big question.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
And I'm a musician, so I get a lot of that.
That's definitely how do you make any money doing doing this?

Speaker 2 (18:41):
How do you make any money? That is the you
can figure that one out. I'm all, heres, Yeah, it's
it's hard. Somebody put it to me that the film
has really become what music was fifteen years ago or
ten years ago, whenever Spotify really changed the game, and

(19:06):
it is hard. You know, the people at the top
the tailor swifts and will always be able to make money.
But for you know a lot of the folks starting
out or you know, mid tier, it's really challenging. But
I will say this, your skills are transferable to you know,
so many places now have media divisions within companies, and

(19:29):
there are ways to get you know, to pay the
bills and still keep honing your craft. The corporate stuff
I tend to do now is really just as I'm
developing newer, bigger projects. I need to fill the gaps
with money, but I also need to keep my skills
somewhat sharp. I need to keep crews going and figuring

(19:51):
out what the new equipment is out there, figuring out
just remembering how you know, everything from the hard drives
to the computer program to the cloud based whatevers are working.
And so, you know, I think that that often gets
lost in it. And when I talk to people that
are you know, they've got check a couple of the

(20:12):
boxes of I got a story I really want to tell.
I got a camera kind of know how to use,
and a couple of you know, people that I can
lean on to carry carry the lights and maybe like
they can do some editing. That's a lot. But you know,
where's the money going to come from? They always ask me,

(20:33):
And the answer is nowhere unless you go find it.
Nobody is going to fund your your dream unless they
really see a way that they're going to profit from it.
So you just have to take to take that core
and start making it. And that is one of the
things John Penn said to me early on that you can,

(20:56):
as you can imagine, somebody in his position gets hit
up a lot. He's one of the few people that
really walks the walk and isn't afraid to get involved
in somewhat edgy projects. But he's like, I'm really impressed
that you guys just kept making the film. And I'm like, yeah, well,
we weren't going to just wait for you to, you know,

(21:17):
say yes, because most likely we figured you were going
to say no. And but most people that approach him
do stop and wait and want him to solve it.
And I think, you know, it's not just unique to him,
but so many of the people that I meet in
this and that I try to mentor just stop and wait.
And once you lose that momentum, you're going to get

(21:37):
pulled into something else.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
It's inevitable, right, And when you're doing something creative, waiting
is exactly conducive to great creativity?

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Is it that time kills everything? That kills everything?

Speaker 1 (21:51):
So did you go to school for this before you
got into these news jobs or how did you get
into that?

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah? I went to school for communications and media arts.
It was a small year school in upstate New York,
and then got very fortunate to get a foot in
the door at the TV station there. I'd worked in
radio when I was in high school. I just kind of,
you know, always pursued it and got lucky with a
friend of my dad's was a TV news reporter and

(22:19):
he sort of opened that door. And my first job
was four hours a week retyping prompter stories.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Ah, not a lot of fun for that. One got
to get your foot in the door fun. But the
teleprompter was first. I learned how to type, which was important.
But scripts back then were written on a typewriter with
it was called like a Q set, I believe, and
it had you know.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
You type in it. But it would make like seven
copies of it at once, and one would go to
the anchor, one would go to the director and so on,
and one would come to me. And I would have
to take that script and retype it into a Commodore
sixty four and then take the floppy disc out of
that and walk it into the studio, put it into
another Commodore sixty four, and then roll the prompter and

(23:05):
run a studio camera. That was my job, and it
wasn't great, but it was like I was able to
get in there and befriend befriended the sports guy. He
put a camera in my hands to go shoot high
school you know, basketball games nice and I was kind
of my attitude for it grew. And so college was there,

(23:28):
and I think there was you know, it was useful
getting into like film theory classes things like that, but
the hands on newsroom experience is really where I learned
everything interesting.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
And then you mentioned also you did something for the
Disney Channel.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, we did a movie in twenty eighteen called Pick
of the Litter and it follows five puppies on their
quest to become guy Dougs for the blind. Oh cool,
So a really neat story. From the moment the dogs
are born, you know, you learn a lot about themlearn
about people that are struggling with, you know, with blindness.
And that movie ended up going to the slam Dance

(24:09):
Film Festival, which at that point ran at the same
time as Sundance, and it became sort of the talk.
The talk of the festival is one of the I
think it was the first film sold that year. And
as it was getting ready to go out into the world,
IFC Films was going to put it in theaters and
then Hulu was going to take it for streaming. Bob

(24:33):
Iger from Disney saw the trailer. I guess this is
the story as I heard it, so I'll just repeat it.
He saw the story or his girlfriend saw the trailer
or something, and it was right as they were getting
ready to launch Disney Plus, and so he told his people, dogs,
I want dogs, Get me some dogs. Suddenly we get

(24:56):
a call from the business affairs people at Disney Plus
and they wanted to option our film to make it
into this series. And it was really interesting to work.
And you know, I've been an independent filmmaker for now
a number of years, and now suddenly I'm thrust into
this thing working for like one of the biggest companies
in the world. And they partnered us with the alternative

(25:21):
division of ABC Studios. So they they're the ones that
handled like most of the unscripted like reality from Reality
TV up, you know, to kind of documentaries, but they
never really dealt with us, US Northern Californian documentary people
who are a little different. So we tried to blend
that together to make this show, and I think it

(25:44):
was going well, but then the Fox they merged, Disney
merged with Fox or they acquired Fox and virtually everybody
that was in our division of ABC studios we were
working with. Everybody got fired, so now we were show
became a bit of an orphan, but I'm really proud

(26:06):
of it. People, It's not on Disney Plus anymore, which
is weird. I was going to ask, where do you
see it? Called a lot of the programming. But still
if people email me and I might have a secret
link I can share with some people just to well,
if you would, I would love to. I would love
to see my daughter. Of course, if I told her.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Linda Perry guy with the Dog Show on Disney, She's
gonna be like, drop everything, We're watching this, Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
No doubt. It's yeah. So a lot of lessons learned.
And you know, so we only did one one season,
six episodes, but it was quite an adventure and I
would love to be a showrunner on something else in
the future. I enjoy as much as I enjoy doing
you know, sort of the smaller, more intimate stuff, but

(26:56):
I enjoy having, you know, the big crew and having
maybe a bit more tools to play with on a
given day, right, right.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
And what were the difference besides the crew and the
equipment from doing independent too, working specifically for Disney. I
suppose they had their hand in a lot and they
had some opinions, or do they kind of leave you
to do your thing?

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, a bit of both. They we It was funny
the amount of sessions we went through about defining what
the show was. When I just wanted to say, well
that you have a whole movie already that tells you
what the show is. You know, you could just watch that.

(27:42):
But there was a lot of that, a lot of
kind of handwringing about you know, what is it going
to be? How can we you know, how can we
do this grander and not really understanding the some of
the limitations of you know, coming with dogs with you know,
and doing it in a real way, and people that

(28:04):
are the vision is impaired. You can't you know, you
can't stage this, you can't. Like I remember at some
point a person said, well, can we just create a
scene for this show where a blind person walks into
guide dogs for the blind and says, I would like
a dog please like But that would never it would
never happen in a million years for a million reasons,

(28:27):
Like there's a vetting process. A person who's visually impaired
isn't going to climb on a bus and go to
a place like There's So there was several conversations like
that that, Yeah, it made it somewhat challenging. And then
going through the rounds of notes. Ultimately I like notes,

(28:47):
I like, you know, to make sure that people are
picking up when I'm putting down. But but these we
were caught between. The folks on the Disney side were
led by a more documentary centered person, more similar to
our aesthetic, and then before that was the ABC studio folks,
which were a little bit more reality. And so we

(29:09):
would make make a cut, then we would share it
with ABC and they would give us a bunch of
notes to make it more reality. We'd give it back
and then they'd move it. The next cut would go
to Disney and they would say no, no, no, this
is way too much reality. Two sides. Yeah, yeah, a
lot of the stories that you hear about dealing with

(29:30):
network stuff, you know, to me very true, I would imagine.
But yeah, still still really a great experience that and
I'm very proud, you know, living in northern California, we
have a bit of a rivalry with LA and to
keep this show here and to use a lot of
the local folks that you know, I've either worked with

(29:51):
before or I've always wanted to and being able to use,
you know, the little bit of power that we had
for a minute to keep that show in northern California.
I'm really proud of that, and I would love to
do more here.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Very cool, Okay, And were you like a music guy
growing up? You mentioned that you were doing some DJ work.
Did you grow up loving music? How did how did
that go? Because he was a huge music.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Fan, you know, from very early on, and just I've
always gravitated towards the creation process. Where where did these
songs come from that become anthems that you're in your
head forever, and fascinated by that process of watching, you know,

(30:39):
the moment with the creative spark. So yeah, grew up
you know Springsteen and Neil Young and all of that stuff.
And of course you know Zeppelin and Pink Floyd are
in there somewhere too. What was your first concert? First
concert was Boston? Wow? My brother took me to see

(31:03):
Boston and I was just I don't know how old
I was twelve. Maybe before that i'd been to a
bunch of country music. My parents are big country music people.
So I saw like Kenny Rogers more times than I
cared to admit Kingston Trio and Eddie Rabbit and Oakridge Boys.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
I grew up in North Dakota, so that sounds like
North Dakota right there.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
It's North Dakota. A lot of Kenny Rogers. But then yeah,
my brother was into like Classic Rocks, So we went
we saw Boston and I remember seeing Rush at a
pretty young age, and Rush, yeah, really blew me away
because they had lasers. Yeah, things like that. Laziers are important.

(31:45):
Lazers are huge. That's amazing. Did you ever play at all?
Or we just did? An appreciator of music a little bit,
you know, I fumbled around on guitar for a while,
and I still think at some point, probably when I retire,
actually going to learn how to how to properly play one.
But just a great admiration for it for people that

(32:09):
can just you know, work like that. And I think,
you know, the beats of it, you know, come into
a lot of the things that I edit. I feel
like I edit like the beats of music to me.
And you know, our our editor on the Linda Perry
film Camille is a is a violinist, and you can

(32:30):
see it right in every way that she cuts that
the film. So I think they're tightly connected, even if
even if I don't play, I think it's somewhere in
my brain. There's a reason.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
There's a reason why there's a lot of music and
movies that you tie together very nicely.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
So how did you meet Linda? How did that come about? Yeah, Linda,
I met her while I was doing this movie. As
I mentioned, I went to I spent a lot of
time in Haiti with Sean Penn And what he did,
for those who don't know, is when a big earthquake

(33:10):
happened there in twenty ten, he loaded up a plane
full of supplies and blew it in, thinking he was
going to go in for a couple of weeks, try
to do a little bit of good, and then get
out and go back to regular life. But he ended
up staying, and he created an organization that ran the
largest displaced person's camp in all of Haiti and eventually

(33:34):
started getting you know, they took down the National Palace
that had been damaged in the earthquake. They got into communities,
removing rubble so the streets could open back up. And
business could get going. They started rebuilding houses, and through
the years I would I would go back as often
as I could to help document what was going on,

(33:55):
but always fulting footage away, thinking maybe there's a movie here,
somewhere down the line. So in twenty twenty eighteen, write
as pick of the litters coming out, and I have
a little bit of I'm cool for a minute. There's
very few cool moments in the filmmaker's life, but that
was one. And I remember going to Sean and saying,

(34:18):
I think I can get this movie finance. Now, what
do you say? And he'd always been reluctant to do
it because he didn't want it to seem like self serving. Sure,
but I said I need to you know, I think
I can do this now. I think the story is amazing.
We're coming up on a ten year anniversary of the earthquake,
and he said, go ahead and make it. So I

(34:40):
put together a trailer and we showed it at the
annual gala that his organization does, and Linda happened to
be there. Oh wow, And so she saw the trailer
and she got a hold of me and said, I
really want to score this movie. And I said no way.
I said absolutely, not thinking like I'm already going to

(35:03):
have John Penn to deal with and it's taken me
ten years to get here. I don't know, you know,
I've heard the stories that Linda can be difficult, but
I went and met with her and we had a
really nice conversation and I said, yeah, let's let's do it.
And so this is you know, late twenty nineteen, I guess.

(35:24):
And we'd been given a good indication that we might
be able to get the film into Tribeca if we
could get it done in time. So we start working
on it, and then the pandemic happens, so we had
to stop working together. And once you know, we figured
out how to work, it was just doing this. It

(35:45):
was like having zooms talking about the movie, and the
movie was still like shifting shape, shifting a little bit
because Shawn's organization changed their entire focus once COVID happens
to now they're getting tests out the people, they're getting
there one of the first organizations that got vaccinations going
at Dodger Stadium in La Oh. Yeah, I remember remember

(36:06):
they were doing that there. Yeah, So the movie's changing.
But Lynda and I are just sort of getting through
the pandemic together in a weird way, and then yehs
that film wrapped up. At some point I was in
her studio and I just said, you know, would you
ever consider telling your story? Because I've gotten to nowhere

(36:30):
a bit more and I knew there was a lot there,
more than just the hit songs. Was a person who
was just trying to figure life out, and it felt
like a really compelling place to enter her story and
try to tell it. And she was reluctant. She didn't
really want to be the focus of attention, but I

(36:53):
assured her that I wouldn't stop things. I wouldn't. She'd
had a bad experience making a show for VH one
a few years before. She's like, you can't stop me.
Like I moved the way that I moved, so you know,
I accepted those challenges and just trying to capture the
best I could and had no idea where the story
was going to go.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
When she said stop, you mean like if she was
working on something, it would be like, hey, can you
go back and do that again so we can get
a different angle.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
She's like, and or can you hit your mark over here?
You're all that's what you are, right, absolutely, if you
say you're a fly on the wild, then just do that.
And I did, and we we got pretty deep in
the studio on a lot of days. We had some sessions.
She was working with Kate Hudson at the time, so

(37:41):
we spent several days working with her. And then then
you know, I think her her daughter Rhodes came to
the studio and you know, that was a very personal
day and her giving access to that part of her life. Like,
I figured I would get the professional stuff, right, I
didn't know what eliot I'd get on the personal side.

(38:03):
And yeah, it takes a lot to put yourself on
display like that, and you know, you've seen the movie,
it goes, it goes pretty pretty far. But that authenticity
and honesty, I'm so grateful that she gave us that

(38:25):
window into what she was going through. And I think
that's what people are responding to in the film now.
I think so too. To your point, like.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
My opinion of Linda Perry is Okay, there's the four
nine Blonde song. I know she's written for some pop stars,
you know, you know she was married to Sarah Gilbert,
so I'm like, I know that stuff that was kind
of it. So going in, I'm like, oh, this should
be entertaining, should play some songs, and that thing.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
That movie goes deep. It goes so deep.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
So it sounds like you didn't even really know going
in how much access or how far she was gonna
open up to it beyond her her process, her musical process.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Is that is that fair to say? Yeah, that's that's
a very fair statement, you know you. I think I
feel pretty confident now have been doing this for a
number of years that you just got to hang out.
You got to be there and be ready because you
just never never quite know to whatever degree you can,

(39:27):
you can't be there twenty four to seven. But I
think if you just show that you're not like directing documentaries,
I always I feel a little even bashful with the
term because I don't think you're really directing it. You're
you're observing and reflecting on you know what, what have

(39:49):
I filmed before? Does this tie into anything? Is this?
You know? I don't see how this day is going
to work, But you know, Linda is very serious about it.
So let's just film and seeing not put a big
preconception on it. And I think of You know, there's
a big revelation about halfway through the film that Linda

(40:16):
had a cancer diagnosis, and I had been working with
her day in and day out going through this and
I had no idea until she says it in this interview.
And we don't have many formal interviews in the movie,
but on this day, I think I just asked her, like,
you know, so, how are you doing? Are you finding
more direction? And she just goes on this long story

(40:39):
about it, where I had to listen and then stop
and say, let me, what do you say? Because it
was such a bewildering moment that I couldn't have ever
planned for. So those kind of things keep happening if
you just keep if you open yourself up to it
and don't try to drive it, you know, to what

(41:02):
you want or I got to get out early today,
or you know, you just got to if you sign
up for a doc like this, you just got to
take the ride and know that you know, I'm not
quite sure where it's going to go. And I understand
that's incredibly hard, not just on you know, your own
family and your crew and your investors, but I think

(41:25):
that's the only way you get anything that's really honest.
And I think that's why a lot of the docs
you see now aren't pretty much just like a PR move.
They're not very they don't have much depth to Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
No, there's got to be a ton of trust with
folks that you're working with, too.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
They have to get to know you.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
I suppose it probably takes a little bit of time
and they're like, all right, they're not gonna they're not
going to do me dirty here, so I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah. Then there's still the lawyers which weren't there in
the room with you to don't They don't know exactly
how you've bonded on something. So it is a it
is a tap dance, and I can't say that I've
perfected it, but you know, yeah, it is. It really

(42:14):
does come down to trust and knowing you. I'm still
can go by texting with Linda this morning, just like
asking we have a call, you know, an important call
on the horizon, and you know, it's nice to be
able to just go straight to her, I like can
we do this? Are you okay with this? And she
will send me things back. So it's it's become more collaborative.

(42:37):
May now as we start to roll the movie out
and show it to people. Then you know during it,
you know, I have to be a little bit guarded,
She's got to be a bit guarded, so you know
the relationship evolves. Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
I've been doing this podcast for four years and in
kind of that, that same sort of thing that the
best episodes are the ones where people you don't know
what's coming, someone throws something out there and you're just like,
holy shit, I'd ask. I'd ask Jason Faulkner from he
plays with Saint Vincent and he was in Jellyfish if

(43:10):
you remember them. I asked him, He's just sitting out
on his porch and silver Lake and ask him any regret,
any regrets, and he's like, you know, I've played with
Paul McCartney and I've done this and I've never owned
a house. And I'm like, wow, that's not something you
would ever think of, right. It's just those like kind
of real moments where people bring their guard down, where
like that's kind of interesting in things that people wouldn't

(43:32):
have thought of it. So that's that exploration in those
conversations I can see being very fun.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
And I love a statement like that too, because It
says so much about you know, he has had a
front row seat to people that are I mean, McCartney's
pretty much a billionaire at this point, and you know
that's great. It's certainly not about the money. I mean,
you got to go play with a beatle and that's great.
But he's you know, sweating maybe where next month's rent

(44:01):
or you know, where what is my legacy in this?
And I think touching on that like we do in
the in the Linda Perry film, it is universal, like, yes,
maybe she has a bigger house than yours or a
bigger contact network, you know list, but we're all dealing
with the same stuff, especially once she hit a certain age,

(44:23):
you know, as I think I mentioned, I'm already I
turned fifty this year and it really has caused me
to just go, holy, you know, I got to take
stock of am I where I want to be? You know,
what is next? You know, couple that with some the
political stuff that's going on and the uncertainty surrounding our

(44:44):
world and talking with these guys from Ukraine that are
very much the same as me, but now they're out
on a battlefield. It's yeah, it's a very uneasy time.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
So that begs the question, are you where you want
to be right now? Or do you feel like you accomplished
the things? Have you accomplished more or less? Are you
feeling like you're right where you need to be? On
a obviously that probably as an artist that shifts by
probably by the hour, we all know this works. But
you know, right now do you feel how do you
feel about where you've gotten with us?

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah? I feel really good about where I am and
fortunate that I've been able to tell these incredible stories
that I think if you'd asked me at nineteen years
old or something, you know, if I got to make
a movie about you know, and become friends with Sean
Penn and Linda Perry, I would have been great. And
I mean there are two people that I would have,

(45:39):
you know, put in a select few of like celebrities,
I would have cared about spending time with, you know.
So I feel very fortunate with that. I think that
what I struggle with is I used to growing up
films seem like they were forever. You know, the film
I mentioned, The Thin Blue Line, that movie you go

(46:01):
watch today, like all these years later, thirty thirty plus,
forty plus years later and it's still there. You know,
The Godfather is still there, Chinatown. You know, whatever you
want your movie to be. And I'm not trying to
compare my stuff to those, but it rocks. Yeah, but there,
and there's so many and it used to seem eternal,

(46:22):
and now film just doesn't. They come out one day,
they go on to Netflix or whatever for two weeks,
and then they're in the pile, never to be heard
from again. And that has has just changed my feeling
about you know, maybe I cared too much about this
when I first started I and I was looking more

(46:44):
for that legacy down the road rather than what was
right in front. But it just begs the question. I'm
sure as a musician you feel it too, Like there's albums,
there's there's seminal in it, and you know, you want
to create something that maybe has a chance of connecting
people people long term and having that longevity, and I
just I don't know that that exists anymore or will

(47:07):
ever exist again.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Well, I think to that point, with social media in general,
I think it's become such a content world, and I
think because you constantly have to have this content, what's
here today has gone tomorrow. And that's you know, not great.
Everything feels very disposable, like art music, you know, books,
if anybody reads anymore.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
That sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
So I definitely get get that because like we put
on a record by band High on Stress a few
years ago and it was it was the best one.
We've done, best results, we've gotten great feedback. And then
now it's like it's been a little while and I
kind of feel like we're out on an island again,
because things do change and things come out so fast

(47:49):
that if you're not throwing stuff at stuff at the
wall as fast as everybody else, you kind of feel.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Like anybody get a care on the next one.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
So you know, it is totally but it's a passion thing, right.
You just do it because you love doing it and
you hope it connects.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Yeah, and being you know, certainly you got to go
in with passion and put everything into it, but not
be so tethered to your bit of self worth to
what happens with it after that. Hey, I love you
know what we've been doing with Linda, where we've done
I don't know ten maybe ten festivals that I've gone

(48:27):
to seven of them with her, sharing this with people
letting her have her moment where the crowd, you know,
the standing ovation and the love is felt and feeling
you know, a part of that, like I've given her.
I've helped her achieve this moment. That's great. But I
can't get too much wrapped up in the rest of it,
because I have what is the best case scenario. It

(48:51):
comes out and on Paramount Plus and people find it
and it has a bit of a life, and then
it'll be replaced with the next thing, you know, a
couple of weeks later, and that's great, but that is
your best case scenario, and you gotta be okay with that,
you know, right right? And so is that where it's

(49:12):
going on next to Paramount I hope. So, you know,
we're talking with a few different people, but I really
do like what they're doing there. They have some compelling
docs and now that they own Showtime, you know, you
can see this film setting perfectly alongside like the Sinne

(49:34):
O'Connor film, you know, Chryl Crow other titles that they have.
But we're we're open, and you know, we're talking to
a lot of folks. You know, now as the year
is winding down. I don't know that we'll get something
done before the top of next year. But I hope
that whoever takes it sees what I see in it,

(49:54):
that this movie works on a lot of levels, and
if we can get it some we have a theatrical
run with it, then that shared experience is really meaningful.
And maybe there is an awards campaign somewhere in there
for Linda for Best Song. I would love to see
that happen because she you know, the turns we see

(50:17):
her make in the in the film are profound. In
the song that ends the film, I'm really really proud
of that. It is a mic drop moment.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
It drop, and I don't want to give too much
away to people, but that that song was just like
holy shit, like that was that was coming from the
depth of her soul, big time.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
That was, and the fact that she thought about it
on the way down there this morning to like we're
a recording or a rehearsal space in the deep deep
valley in la and you know that she showed up
with that in the way that she orchestrates. Again, not
giving too much away, but yeah, it's It's one of

(51:02):
those rare moments when as soon as it was over,
I said, that's the end of the film where you
gotta go. That's it. There's nothing else we can say here.
It is done. So I'm really proud of that. And
you know, so much of this to me, as also
the people you meet along the way, the experience had

(51:24):
along the way through all of these Because of doing
this job, I've traveled the world. I've met people I
never would have encountered in any other you know, realistic way.
We're not not. You know, the celebrity part is cool,
and that's great. I got to spend a day in
the studio with Bono. Okay, that's cool on a movie. Yeah,

(51:51):
But you know, I think of that as in Uganda
many years ago and sitting having breakfast with this young
man who had been the lord's resistance army had come
into his town and they'd killed his mom and his
father and taken him and made him into a child soldier,
and then he had escaped, and anyway, it leads to

(52:14):
breakfast with me, and just I think about that that
moment often, of just sitting there next to him and
seeing the look on his face when he saw like
options for breakfast like toast with jam or peanut butter,
you know, things that we like just totally take for granted.
But was that unique moment for him that I got

(52:35):
to be part of, say nothing other you know, in
haiting so many people that have profoundly changed me so.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Right, And I'm sure that's part of like the beauty
of this too. Sometimes you know, the final product is
the final product. But I think as you get older,
you start to realize that the journey is you know,
just as good or better as the outcome. Right, what
did I get to experience, Who did I get to
talk to?

Speaker 2 (52:59):
What did I learn? And yeah, I really tried to
be better about that as it's hard, you know, if
it's it's hard because you want to, you know, get
back to your regular life. You know, I want to
fly in and then I want to do to my thing,
and I want to fly right back out, but maybe
take a little extra time. When Lynda and I were
in Minneapolis, we arrived, hopped in the car together, went

(53:21):
to the hotel and checked in and the pool was
strong because it was a really early morning flight, like
five am flight from here. But I like, let's go,
let's go somewhere. And I'm like, have you ever been
to the Mall of America and it was like, I
don't know what that is. I'm like, then we're going. Yeah,
So we went and kicked around the Mall of America

(53:43):
for like a two hours a half. Yeah, totally did.
She had her hat on, she was facetiming with her
daughter Rhodes, and we had a great time, you know.
And then we went to some weird vegan restaurant and walked,
you know, from there all the way back to the
hotel and just what was the vegan restaurant? Do you
remember the herbaceous butcher? Okay, yeah, it was great. It

(54:10):
just wasn't really a restaurant. There was nowhere to sit down.
So now we're like me and Linda Perry are hoofing
it on a forty degree to day with the wind
in our faces, eating you know, a vegan turkey sandwich.
That's funny. I had a funny moment, and we try
to take those more.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Laurie Barbero from Babes and Toyland was telling me a
story about how she went down to a Nirvana recorded
in Utero and Canon Falls, Minnesota, and she took them
up to the Mall of America. In fact that you
know the angel on the covers. Actually he bought that
from a store in the Mall of America.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Oh I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Yeah, So she took him there and you know, choosing
Babes in Toiland and she was telling me. They were
walking around and someone walked up and I go, were
they recognized? And they're like, She's like, no, that was
the funny part. Someone came up to me to talk
about Babes and Toiland while they were standing and they
were they were just dying because nobody picked up on
the fact that Nirvana was standing next to her.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
So that's awesome. Yeah, so you know, Mall of America
has seen some things that is funny.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
So when you got this movie done and you thought,
did you have final cut?

Speaker 2 (55:22):
Did you give it to Linda?

Speaker 1 (55:23):
And Linda was kind of going, yeah, I'm not so
sure I want to move with that part of the
story or whatever.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
She just or she just kind of bear it all.
How did that go?

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Because that's going to be touchy too, right, because there's
definitely a scene in there that's pretty rough.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
That's in there. No early on and honestly, the only
way that you can get financing for something at this
point is if you have a deal in place saying
that final cut resides with the filmmakers, and I think,
you know, the language is like meaningful consultation. There's what

(56:00):
the artist will have. I'm sure there's other deals that
are different. But so that was all ironed out, and
it definitely, you know, it took them back and forth
and again steed and control and trust and all that stuff.
So I knew that final cut resided with us, but
I also am realistic this is her life, just like

(56:21):
in the Sean Penn move, it's his life, and I
want them to be happy with it, right, And so
with everything going back to which we talked about and
pick of the litter, I want the folks involved in
it to see it. And then it generally creates a
conversation where you know they will have things and you

(56:45):
will have things, and you can meet somewhere in the middle.
And I feel fortunate. I hear about these other filmmakers
just go through these huge battles with their subjects, and
I've never had that. I would, yeah, and I hope
never to come go down that path. But you know,

(57:05):
specifically with Linda, I didn't know what movie she thought.
I was making because you you sort of do all
the filming and then you go away from the squirrel
away for a while and like piece this together. And
when we showed her the rough cut, it was nerve wracking.
It was myself and my producer Dan and then Linda

(57:28):
and her best friend Aubin, And you know, she was
so supportive afterwards, She's like, I really feel for that
person on screen. She kind of disconnected from it a bit. Yeah,
I would imagine that's it's your the way we protect yourself.

(57:48):
But she's the most important thing is she saw value
in it. She saw value in putting it out there
as raw as possible. He did say a couple of
things like, god, could you get one scene where I
look good? You know, like you know, I think you
look good here and and you know, so we're able
to talk it all through. But yeah, it's a it's

(58:10):
a nerve wracking process. And I understand why why a
lot of people won't be as as open and transparent
as Linda has been. Yeah. I love that she goes
out there and is not afraid to stand in front
of people and receive the love. But also, you know,

(58:32):
take the take, take it somewhat in has some perspective
on it, and you know that that is that's the
most you can hope for with these is that the
person everybody ends up friends at the end and sees
the benefit to putting out something that's open and honest
and yeah, well just at the Parkway, like with how

(58:56):
deep this movie is.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Like the love at the end when you all came
out and everybody was cheering in the standing ovation, I'm like,
that probably is a giant relief when you're putting yourself out.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
There because it is pretty raw. Nerve actually took a
step back and kind of sat down and embraced her
a bit because it was so natural that everybody stood.
But I think it's still really caught her off guard.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
No, that was that was legit love coming from that
audience because it's you know, and I hope a lot
of people watch this because you know, like I said,
I like Linda Perry. Fine, don't you know, I know
who she is, but watching this thing just gives you
a new perspective on who she is as a person
that humanizes her.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Just seeing her even at.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
The Parkway, just singing those songs, like the charisma that
comes from like, holy shit, Like she is a deep, profound,
talented Like I walked out of that being like, wow,
I've always been kind of like fine, and now I'm like,
I'm a fan after wat watching that, it's fantastic and
one of the other things that you know you're not

(01:00:04):
going to get watching the movie. But at the Parkway
that I thought was kind of neat and it just
showed a little bit more of her. Not that not
that you feel like there's much more that you can say,
open up to, but I'm like when she played those
songs and she did that Q and A and that
girl she must have been about fifteen sixteen years old,

(01:00:25):
stood up and said, you know, the world is shitty
and I want to play music and get my feelings out.
And she like just how empathetic she was with that
person in the crowd saying get a guitar, play one note,
learn one note, get all that out.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Doesn't need to be good.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Start there and you know, carry on from that. Was
just like wow, that was really kind of a nice moment.
And then when she's doing what's going on at the
very end of the thing, she calls over to the
kid sitting over there to come up on stage, Hey, kid,
come up here and sing, and it was like like, yeah, well,
no dry eyes in this house.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
No, it was a really special moment and totally not
planned and it's yeah, it just is. It's great when
it feels like, you know, so much of everything today
is so scripted and right, you start to go, was
that a real thing? Yeah? So I think those true

(01:01:21):
moments are even more special because everything else feels kind
of phony. Yeah. No, it's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
And I'm like, that kid's gonna that kid's gonna buy
a guitar, like, and she's gonna be telling people for
years what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
And it was just like what a like, what a
gift to give that kid, you know what I mean? Yeah,
and uh it just yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
I walked out of that place with a big grin
and my daughter just thought it was the coolest thing
ever that she did that for that kid.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
So that was pretty damn cool. Nice.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
You know, we were talking about how disposal well everything
feels these days, and you know, you put a lot
of work into movies, you put a lot of work
into albums that it could be year, right, how long
does it take you to make a movie?

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Yours? Probably I mean, it always it should go faster,
but uh, I think the you know, the fastest thing
we probably did it is about a year. But as
Sean Penn project was on and off for a decade
and Linda is about three years now. Uh And it's

(01:02:22):
not you know, obviously filming every day and all of that,
but they just take up space in your brain in
your heart all these years, like is this gonna is
this gonna hang together? Are the people that funded this
going to really lean on me that this needs to
be done now? It takes a lot of a lot
of that to get, yeah, to just stick with it,

(01:02:44):
because there's certainly many days when you don't want to.
So it's uh yeah, nothing is ever easy. You know.
I love the people that I mean, they're like, yeah,
it's pretty much all shot, you know, it's really just
got to sit down and edit it. So couple of
months and then we'll go to can with it. Like, right, okay,

(01:03:04):
editing is very easy, right, Yeah, it's super easy. And
I've been All of that footage that you're talking about
is just there and it's perfectly organized and in order,
perfectly Yeah, we're going to throw it into a on
and Coofull. We got a movie. Yeah, wow, that's coming.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
But you know, but what I was getting out with
that is, you know, I'm I'm a big I love
music biographies, I love music documentaries. I love music like
That's why I do this podcast and it's a music
podcast and this ties in with that. But I just
want you to know that with how how disposable things
can be, how they feel that you made one of
the best music documentaries I've ever seen, which I have

(01:03:42):
seen a billion, so it will stick with me for sure.
And and you know, even with that Parkway thing, it's
going to stick with that kid, with that gift that
Linda gave her.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
So yeah, you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Did great work and and it's going to live on
regardless of how long it's on streaming or not. Whoever
sees it, it will be walking away with it in
their hearts, that's for sure, because one of the best
I've seen. So I appreciate you jumping on here and
chatting and and good luck on your next Thank.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
You definitely enjoyed the talk. Was it was really fun.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
Yeah I did too, And let's definitely stay in touch,
Don Hardy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
That was a great conversation. I gotta tell you what.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Those are the kinds of conversations that keep this podcast going.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
I talk a lot in there with him about the
movie and the unexpected.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Of the movie in general.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Like I didn't know much about Linda great great movie, didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Know much about Don, saw some of his work online
and what he had been up to, and I'm like,
this could be a good conversation. And the Linda Perry
movie is fantastic. I want to tell to this guy.
And that was a great.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
One, definitely in the top tier podcast interview that I've
had on here over the years. I really enjoyed hearing
about the art, the worry about legacy and how disposable
everything seemed, you know it really And I hope you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
All get something on this as well. I hope you
will see the movie. It is so good. It is
so good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
I hope it comes to streaming soon and if not,
if it's somewhere where you can rent it, definitely rent.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
It's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
So I'd like to thank Don for being on the episode.
I'd like to thank Linda Perry for opening herself up
in that movie, because you know, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Great, It's really great.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
Not easy to do very courageous, so it cheers to
the two of them. I'd like to thank you for
listening to the Figure eights podcast. This has been nick
leet It's studio twenty four Minneapolis, and we will see
you for.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
The next episode. Take care, break.

Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
Allus old, No, to break all its cold, No to break.
You better get anyway, you better give it away. That's small, though,

(01:06:59):
it's odd.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
About it's more. Should say it say? It?

Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
Should say it's hard about?

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
What should say.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
It's talk about its small?

Speaker 4 (01:07:30):
Could say it's talk about