February 10, 2025 • 53 mins
Join me as I chat with one of the great rock drummers of today, Jon Wurster. We talk about punk rock, cleaning windows, comedy, Ryan Adams, Tommy Keene, being in the right place at the right time and so much more. Great talk!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You are listening to the Figure eights podcast. I'm your
host Nick Leet from the band High on Stress so
out of Minneapolis, Minnesota. And today's guest is fucking John Worster.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah. John Worster's on this show. How cool is that
one of.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
The great greatest drummer sits out there today. You know
him as the drummer for the Bob Mold band, Super Chunk,
the Mountain Goats. He's appeared on Puless Records. He's you know, uh,
He's performed with Ben Gibbert from Dead Gab for Cutie
(00:55):
Rocket from the Crypts.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
He's played with R. E. M.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
S Tommy, and he's also a comedy guy.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
He's appeared on.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
The Best Show with Tom Sharpling. So big time guests today,
great conversation with John. Fantastic warm guy, easy to talk
to you.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So I think you're gonna dig this one.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So without further ado, I bring you drum Wizard John Worster.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Black good just uh, you know, crunch time getting ready
for these the R. E. M. Thing and and a
Bob moldtour.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So yeah, yeah, So when you hit the road, like
next week Tuesday, Tuesday, fly to Chicago, and uh, we're
kind of based there.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Everybody but but John Stearrett and myself are are Illinois dudes. Uh,
so that's where we meet. We rehearse for a day
and then we head out west. Nice.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
How many shows? This is the rin thing you're doing
on this tour, right?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah? With Michael Shannon. Yeah, so it's it's Michael Shannon,
me Jason on guitar. Dog our friend Dog is playing guitar.
He plays in a band called POI Dog Pondering Okay, yeah,
and John Starrett on bass, our friend but Jay on keyboards,
and and it's gonna be fun. It's a hell of
(02:22):
a lineup.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Pretty cool. Did you do the last one as well?
I know this is the okay, yeah, because you were
here for then for the first Avenue one that they did,
which I wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I'm in Minneapolis. Okay. Oh that was a great one too.
That was great. I heard it was fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Did you do the Dylan thing recently in Oklahoma?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
No, No, I was. I was on a recording gig
during that, so that was just Jason and h and Michael.
But I've been to the the Dylan Center a few
times and oh, it's so much fun, it's so great. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Do they explain why it's there and not in Minnesota
or New York?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah? Yeah, And I think he might have even specified
that that's where it should be.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Leave it to Dylan to be mysterious, like what so.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Weird, so weird? And Uh, my understanding is you know
he he's already played this. Uh they're going to start
the next tour in Tulsa, and the theater where they
play is I mean, it's I feel like it's two
blocks from the place, and I don't think he came
last time. I'm wondering if because they're starting there on
(03:33):
this tour, maybe maybe he's gonna slip in that's like
at two am the night before or something. Who knows.
Are you from North Carolina originally? No, I'm from outside Philadelphia.
I grew up in a town called Harleysville, which is God.
It seemed like it was a world away from the
city back then, but it was only thirty five miles.
(03:55):
But it was when you're a kid, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
And it was farmlands, you know, menon night kind of turf,
so it was it wasn't at all happening any music
there at all. Just no in the records. No one's
really playing no, no, there were no bands. But I
was really I was really lucky. When I was fourteen,
(04:21):
I got in this band. Uh so, this is nineteen
eighty one. There's really not a lot of new waiver punk,
you know, in my area. But I found some guys
who are into it. They were all way older than me.
So we had a band called Hair Club for Men,
and we would play shows with this other band that
(04:42):
just was happened to be in our area who was
also kind of in the same but it was a
duo called Narthex, and the drummer for Narthex went on
to become the drummer in The Dead Milkmen, Dean Clean. Yes,
so so so he They kind of took me under
their wing when they they were forming The Dead Milkmen.
So so through them, I got to inch my way
(05:05):
closer to the city every year, you know what I mean.
So by by the time I was like eighteen or something,
I felt like I was kind of freeing.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I could do things in the city. Now, did you
say Philly was the closest big city? Yeah, yeah, okay, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
When did you start playing drums. I started taking lessons
when I was ten. But when you're a kid, you know,
it's you want a drum set and you just want
to bash on a drum set and they give you
a little pat and yeah yeah. So you know, it
was so not fun for a ten year old that
I ended up stopping and then started up again a
(05:42):
few years later, and my parents got me a drum kit,
and thank god they were so cool about me play.
It's the worst instrument for a parent, you know, so
absolutely yeah. So so I just started playing along with
records and then this band hair Club for Men formed,
so I was in a band and so that that's
kind of how I started.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
What what were you playing along to or some of
those records?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, it's funny. The first record I when I realized
I could put headphones on and play along and you know,
still here was Squeezing Out Sparks by Graham Parker and
the rumor Wow, And I had this while I've told
this story before, but I think I think it's worth telling.
So the Mountain Goats, this UH band I play in.
(06:26):
We we were doing this kind of residency at one
of these what's it called the UH they have them
all over the country. Now it's it's a like a
sit down, seated club. And I'm spacing on the name. Uh,
somebody will chime in. But anyway, So we were doing
three nights at this place in New York, and during
(06:49):
sound check on the final day, they brought these kids
in to like ask us questions about being in a
band and things, and and one kid asked me, you know, uh,
that very question, what was the first record I played
along with? And I told him it was this Grand
Parker and the Rumor record. And so that was the
final day of Oh City Winery.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
That's what those clubs are called, the city.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Sorry. Yeah. So next day I'm leaving for the first
show of a Bob moldtour and it was it was
in Madison, Wisconsin. So I connected there in Chicago and
so I come out of my little you know, my
into the into the waiting gate area off my plane.
First two people I see standing there Graham Parker and
(07:36):
I'm facally this damn guitar player Brinsley Swarz, who played
guitar and the Rumor and and I was so I
was so excited. I just ran up to them and
started talking. I just said, oh my god, the first
record I've ever played. And they're like whoa and uh
and they're like, who are you? You look familiar and
I said, I'm out there, but but uh, you know,
(07:57):
blah blah blah. And it turned out they were at
the the Bob Mults show two days later at First Avenue.
Really yeah, yeah, I guess they were playing. And it
was the day Prince died.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Oh what a crazy day that was.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Oh my god, that was oh yeah, god. But I
will say that was an amazing night. We we heard
the news on the drive in from Madison and and
we couldn't believe it, but then you know, it was confirmed,
so it was it was it was just me and
Bob and and Bob's partner, huh Don. And so you know,
(08:35):
we're just listening to all these reports come in and
we get there and by chance, Bob Starr at First
Ave is right next to Princes so so you know,
so we were staying like two blocks away, and I
wandered over and there were already people, you know, putting
flowers down, and you know, CNN's there, and and that
night they must have just done this, you know, on
(08:56):
the fly they put a show together. Yeah, outside of
First Avenue, I guess it was a lot of people
that played, you know with him over the years, local people,
and it was just amazing and like every time I hear,
what's the song damp but dah da, I want to
be your lover? Yeah, like that that was blasting just
(09:17):
in the city, Like it was crazy. All the lights
were purple like on the buildings and I couldn't go,
couldn't bring myself to do it. I should have. It
was so sad, but it was also like, wow, this
is the importance of music.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Well did you hear why they had permission to do that?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
No? No, okay, Well this is a fun story.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So if Prince laur Prince must have been two thousand
and seven, you know he had the thing with seven,
so it was seven seven oh seven.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
He did.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
At Macy's Downtown, he played like a show, and then
later that night he played at the Target Center, and
then later that night he played at First Avenue And
the First Avenue show started late and the cops broke
it up because it was past bar close and they
shut the show down, which is insane, Like come so
(10:10):
what they did and this is kind of kind of amazing.
And how it all panned out is they they put
together legislature that said basically, bar closes bar clothes unless
we have the Prince Rule.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Wow. And the Prince.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Rule was put into effect so that they could do
that that night outside. Otherwise it would have happened, but
it was because they shut that last showdown and they
had a Prince rule in Minneapolis.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh oh my god. I always sympathize with people like
Michael Bland, you know, his his drummer, just like you
have to play three shows a day on that tour,
you know from I mean you're you're playing drums or
whatever from you know, from two pm to two am.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And it's not like Bland hit soft like I'm sure
he's worn out.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah yeah, oh my god. So crazy. Oh yeah, that's crazy.
But that's that's why that happened. So pretty cool, pretty cool.
That's tomorrow's rock and roll weirdness. Oh there you go.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, I'm sure you could find some stories online about
it too. But it's uh so, as were you a
Prince fan as a kid, then it sounds like it
was early eighties, so it's probably prime. There's a little
outside of your scope at that point.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Well, I was really into you know, like punk rock
and new wave and stuff. But but he was kind
of in that too, Like I like I he I
liked like I remember having controversy as a kid, and
and and but I don't think I was aware of
like the first record, but but I remember, yeah, really
(11:46):
liking that, and and his videos were great too, and
because so like I mean, he was almost punk you know,
in his own way. So so yeah, that kind of
filtered in my world a little bit, but not not
a whole lot. But I I totally you know, I
appreciate and then I loved, you know, all the hits
that came to and just his his work ethic too
is insane. Yeah, and it's general weirdness. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, did you have you played the Armory in Minneapolis?
I can't remember if I've no, but uh, Bob.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Mole tells the story of I think Hooskers opened for
the Dead Kennedys there.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Okay, okay, because that's where the nineteen ninety nine Prince
video was shot too.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yep. Yeah, well and I think they started having shows
again there is that correct.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
A great And I was wondering because I've seen the
Mountain Goats with you in it. I couldn't remember if
it was their first have or the Palace, but.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I think it might have been the Palace. Yeah, that's
where we last played, gotcha? That was that was probably
last time. I said.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And I've seen you with Bob Colinos college.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah. Cool? Cool?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
So when did you When did you leave that small town?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Well, it's an interesting story. I was I was nineteen,
so this is nineteen. This is early eighty six, I
think like January of eighty six, and I was in
a band that played in UH Base in Philadelphia. I
was still living at home in the Farmlands, and our
band was called Psychotic Norman and we were like a
(13:13):
weird It was like a weird cross between the Minutemen,
The Fall, the Ramones and some some and our singers
sounded like, uh, the guy in Canned Heat who sings
going up the country, you gotta do good. That's very
specific voice. Al al Fisher Is that his name? Al
Al something? Anyway, So that band was kind I felt
(13:40):
like I was the only one in the band that
had like a real work ethic, you know what I mean. Like,
so the the Final Straw, the Final Straw, I don't
know how true this is, but my memory is that
our bassist whose house we practiced in, uh, had gone
to New York to see the replacements or something, and
he didn't come back in time to rehearse on Sunday
(14:02):
at his own house, and so I was upset about that. Uh.
And by chance, that night my my brother called. And
by this point, my older brother was on a track
scholarship at wake Forest University in Winston Salem, n C.
So uh, And at this point I loved all that
North Carolina jangle stuff that's active and the dbs and
(14:24):
the ram stuff so great. Yeah. So by chance, one
of these bands who I liked, whose record I sent
away for in high school, this band called the Right Profile.
You've never heard of them, although one of our main
singers went on to co write the Freakonomics book Stephen J. Dubner. Wow. Yeah.
(14:47):
So anyway, so he was in the band and it
was like a roots rock band. And my brother calls
that night of the no show at our our practice
in Philly and says, I saw these guys today, you know,
and he kind of knew them, and said their drummer
just left, and would you want to try out, So
I was like, yeah, like I'd.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Like something more stables. Yeah, that was your Dave Grohl moment. Yeah,
like oh falling apart at the right time.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah. So, uh my dad gave me probably one hundred
bucks to fly down and uh brother picked me up
or a friend of his picked me up and went
to the band house. And at this point I'd only
corresponded with him via via writing, and uh, we just
we all hit it off. They were a little older
than me, and uh, I tried out and I got
(15:35):
in the band. And four months later we're in Clive
Davis's office at Ariston and he signed us. WHOA what
a trip? Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, four months after the no show.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, I mean it all went downhill from there, like
we need signed and does. But but we got got
to work with some cool producers Pete Pete Anderson who
did the the Dwight Yoakum records. Uh, and we got
halfway into a record at art in Memphis with Jim
Dickinson just after pleased to meet me. But it just
(16:06):
it was the eighties and he was second guessing his
own way of doing stuff. So it just was it
was sounding too slick and it wasn't his fault. So
we cut bait and we ended up, you know, going
into the hell that all bands go into, and that
dragged on until like ninety one.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Did the record come out?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
No? No, never finished it.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Oh and that was the only record that you were
That was the first record for the label. Yep, wow,
so what happened there? They just lose an A and
R guy.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Oh well, this is amazing. So maybe a year or
two into this into our signing, things were, you know,
things were just like it, you know, going at the
speed of molasses. Everything is. So that's why I was
so excited to getting super Chunk. Afterwards, I was like,
I thought, oh yeah, you can put your own records out,
you know, and do it on your own. Yeah. So,
(16:58):
like the major label thing was was awful, but oh
so so so then a friend of mine from Philly said, oh, yeah,
I heard that you you guys were a revenge signing.
So basically there was an A and R guy at
Arista who wanted to sign us and Clive didn't want
(17:20):
to sign us, and then that guy left to another
label and then Clive signed us, so which I don't
doubt who knows. Wow, the politics.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Okay, So then you went on to so it was
super Chunk right after that.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Then, yeah, I that band. We ended up getting a
publishing deal with this company, and through the publishing deal,
we got to do a session with Steve Jordan, the
drummer who's now in the Rolling Stones.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yep, just did the new Soul Asylum record, the new one.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Oh my god, he did. He did them after he
did the session I'm about to talk about. Nice. Yeah,
So the woman that signed us to that publishing deal said,
I think you guys should record with Steve Jordan. And
by this point Steve was, uh, he might have been
out of the Letterman band by this point, I guess,
(18:20):
but he was. He was producing stuff and Soul Asylum
was an early one, and I remember him telling the
story of going to First Avenue Too to see them play.
So this would have been eighty eight maybe or something,
and and my memory is he ended up just hanging
out with eleanor Mondale all night. So but anyway, so
(18:49):
we ended up doing a recording session with Steve at
this place called the Hit Factory in Times Square and
it was just the most transformative musical event for me
in my life. It was just amazing. He Uh, I
learned so much from him in just a week, without
(19:11):
him ever really telling me what to do. I was
just sort of absorbed his thing, and and you know
what he did and what he didn't do, and and
it just kind of changed my life. And and uh
so not long after that, I moved to Chapel Hill
(19:33):
from Winston Salem and I ended up joining Super Chunk.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
How did that come about?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, it was a band I knew of, and I
knew Mac the singer for a little bit. I was
living in northern New Jersey with the right profile guys
when Mac was in at Columbia University, so I would
see him at shows at Maxwell. It's like soul Asylum
or whoever. And so I knew him a little bit
(20:03):
through that. And then when I moved to town, I
got a job as a window washer here in Chapel Hill,
and one of our accounts was school Kids Records, where
he worked. And so I came back from this really
rough tour by that band that Steve Jordan produced, and
(20:26):
we went all the way out west to try to
get a record deal. So now it's like summer of
ninety one and nothing happened. It was terrible. And the
day I get back, I go stop in at my
brother's office here in Chapel Hill and he goes, hey,
Matt called, and I was like, please be what I
hope it is. And so I went to the store
(20:46):
and we talked and basically they were having trouble with
their drummer and they had one tour that they were
going to do with mud Honey opening for mud Honey,
and he said, you know, if things don't work out,
would you want to come in? And I was like, yeah, sure.
So for the next like two weeks or three, I
went on on washing windows and listening to their their
(21:10):
second record, which was about to come out. So and
then I got in. Yeah, and that was it for
the next eleven years or so.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
No more window washing.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I'm sure I had I'm sure I'm sure I had
to come back at some point, but eventually it was.
It was a great day when I didn't have to.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, so, how were these like giant buildings? Were you
like one of those window washers that are or is
this just you're doing some office buildings, office and residential? Okay,
so none of those crazy skyscrapers.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
No, the first day though, these assholes who who I
worked with, they did like send me up on the
ladder like to do a skylight is I guess that
must have been the yeah, you know, to see if
you could hang. Yeah, but they were all right, like,
we would don't tell anyone we would. We would definitely
ditch work and go watch TV at one of the
guy's houses during the day.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So that's hilarious. Yeah, I've always wondered about window washers.
I'm like, I don't, like, I don't think I would
enjoy that much.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So so you joined Super Chunk, So you weren't on
that tour they were on the mud honey, but you
joined after Is that kind of it didn't pan out?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Okay? Yeah, and then we did a huge European tour
with them maybe four months later.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Okay, so you were kind of on the second f
So they came back and they're like, yes, this is
definitely not work.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, it's being in a van. Will sometimes do
to people. And he's great. The guy I took over
from is you know, oh my god, it took me
forever to kind of even approach duplicating. He's super great
at these fast rolls on and which I was never
great at, but so it took me years to come
up to speed on that.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
So how you were in super Chunk forever until somewhat recently?
Right your year two go? Maybe I can't keep tragging
time anymore?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Probably two?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Okay, So how long was that was that you say
ninety one?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I joined in? Uh, it's funny, I joined. I feel
like I I met Laura and maybe Jim the guitar
player at a Nirvana show. It would have been right
when Nevermind came out, So I feel I have a
(23:26):
memory of meeting the two of them that night, and
I think I was in the I think we rehearsed
a few days later, so like late from yeah, yeah,
followup ninety one? Yeah, gotcha? And I I retired, Uh
probably January of maybe two years ago. I think, Yeah,
did they give you a watch or anything? That's a
long time nothing? No, not even a gold watch. Laura
(23:50):
did make that joke though, Laura said, I think we
should give you a watch or something.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Well, good, it's not just me then, no, No, that's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
So were you just doing a lot of session where
or playing other bands too? When you're a good drummer,
you end up in a lot of bands. That's kind
of the thing.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah, good saying drummers are not easy to find. I think.
So like that River City High record that came through
Brian Paulson, who produced some Super Chunk records, and of
course the Wilco and Sunbolt stuff and awesome. Yeah he's
great and uh so he he brought me and I
had never I hadn't met them before uh that day,
(24:28):
and we did it at this cool stage studio that
David Lowry had in uh in Richmond called the Sound
of Music. Okay, yeah, nice. Nice.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So were you just uh were you playing in any
other bands during this time or was it just.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
That's all during super Chunk, all of it, that's all
during Super Chunk. Yeah, so I think that's how people
would find out about me or or you know, uh yeah,
so all kinds of stuff like that, and and you know,
as time went on, I was in the right place
at right time a lot like I mean, he's he's
canceled now, but but but but yeah, yeah, I was
(25:09):
in a bar in Manhattan. God, this would have been
this would have been like spring of ninety eight, I
think and Ryan Adams comes in and and I knew
him because his band would open for a band I
would play in sometimes around here. And and he goes, oh, man,
and like he was looking like this, I'm looking for
(25:30):
a drummer, like a specific like a guy, a specific guy.
And I go, I'm a drummer. And and so I
was leaving town the next day, and he goes, well,
I'm doing this recording session and help oken tomorrow, you know,
play on it. I was like, great, but I didn't
quite trust him, so I said, I'm leave. I'm leaving
(25:52):
at I'm leaving at ten am tomorrow. If I don't
hear from you, I'm gonna go called at nine point thirty,
and and we did it, and I I ended up
playing in Whiskeytown UH on a John Fogerty tour the
next that summer.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Wow, did you record it? You recorded some stuff as well?
Was that on pneumonia or was it just.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Any any anything came out? But so we kind of ended,
you know, acrimoniously, as as as you do. And and
then and then a year later or so, he calls me,
and I was at UH at my job at a
used bookstore here and he wanted me to play on
what would be Pneumonia. Yeah, and so he came down
(26:33):
and and uh, the band was me, him, James E.
Haff from the Smashing Pumpkins as you will, uh, and
a couple of her great local guys who were in
Whiskeytown when I played in Whiskeytown. And it was produced
by by Ethan John's who's Glenn John's son experience, Well
(26:56):
it was and then so we rehearsed and that was great.
It was really fun. None of these songs, as far
as I know, ever made it onto anything. And Ethan's
final words to me the day he left for I
can't wait to do it. You know what kind of
drums do you like? I said, I'm sure anything would
be great, you know, I'm sure we'll find something great.
(27:17):
Never heard a word from anybody again again. And Ethan
ended up playing the drums on it. And so yeah,
So all that to say, I was in the right
place at the right time there and that's happened all
my life, like got to play, got to record with
Nick Cave, being the pretenders for a night, Bob Bob
(27:41):
mold stuff, you know, all of it. It's just never never, uh,
never rule anything out.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, and you never heard from Ryan Adams again after that.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I'm sure I saw him over the years, and we
kind of did reconnect just a year before everything went
down again. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Think he's a really great songwriter, and uh, you know,
I think he got away with a lot of poor
behavior for a long time based on that, but I
think that was a step too.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Far right at the at the time I played with him,
he was the most natural musician I'd ever played with. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had Phil Launcher on. Oh yeah, Oh my god,
like Phil?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, Phil, Oh my god. Phil is hilarious. And he
told many of a fine story. Oh I bet yeah,
Oh poor Phil what he had to deal with.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Oh my god. Oh yeah, he's a trip.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
So so when does when does Bob come around? Then?
Obviously you grew up being a fan of Bob as
most people did.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, a huge Husker fan.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
For me.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
The you know, it's it's so funny. I got I
got to play with all these people. Now. My friend DeWitt,
who is who has been Ram's longtime equipment guy forever,
we met before he got that gig, and and we
joke about the Holy Trinity for us is replacements Hoosker
Do and and R E. M. And so sounds like
(29:06):
you need to move to Minneapolis, right Yeah? Yeah? So
you know, yeah, I was a huge Bob fan my
entire life. I think I probably saw every tour, like
every solo tour, all of it. And I got to
interview him for the Uh it was a tour he
was doing this very kind of controversial tour in terms
of his career. It was the one where he was
playing you know, with backup stuff and all that modulate
(29:30):
I think is the album people weiing, Oh my god.
Yeah yeah, and there were there were like lasting ramifications
from that too, which which was really sad that you know,
people were you know, when I joined, it was very
much you know, digging back out, you know in terms
of like no I play rock and roll. You know
(29:51):
this that was a that was a sliver of my
of my of my thing. And now you all think
I'm share or something, right, you know, so let it
let an art, Yeah exactly, exactly. Yeah. So and I'm
sure if he did that today, no, we would nobody
would bat an eye, you know, it would just be, oh,
this is what this guy's doing now? But in whatever
two thousand whenever that was, that was, that was wild.
(30:13):
So I interviewed him for the Weekly here in Chapel
Hill about that and had a great talk. And then,
you know, fast forward years. Uh, my ex Angie, she
was Bob's publicist when he put out one record on
this label here in Chapel Hill called YEP Rock, And
so I remember going to the record release party in
(30:35):
d C when he was living there and had a
nice talk with him. And so fast forward a few
more years, Brendan Canty is playing drums with him and yeah,
and so Brendan couldn't do this tour that they they
had lined up. Uh. And by this point I was
friends with Jason Rduci. Uh. Jason Rducy Uh plays bass
(30:56):
with uh with the Bob Molevant and he's the co
headliner of this Michael Shannon rim tour we're doing. So
I first played with Jason in the Robert Pollard band. Uh. Yeah.
So when when Bob Pollard went solo in I don't
know when that was oh five or something or six,
I was in his band with Jason. So fast forward
(31:20):
to this Bob moldtour. Jason calls me asked if I
can do it, and I was in the Mountain Goats
at this point, we had a lot of touring, and
I said, I can't believe I'm about to say this,
but I can't do it. And so then maybe just
like a few weeks later, a month later, I get
a call again from Jason and I'm on tour with
the Mountain Goes. We have two more shows to go
(31:40):
and I'm in I'm in Philly, and he goes, would
you be able to do this this European tour that's
coming up in May and I think it's probably like
March now, and I said, yeah, yeah, I will, and
so we're all excited. And then he called back the
next day it was like, can you finish out this
tour we're on right now? Like the drummer, it was
(32:03):
just the wrong guy for it, yeah, you know, And
so I think they they realized, no, the tour was happening. Yeah.
So they had a little break and by chance, we
had to cancel this Mountain Goes tour of Australia that day.
Your timing is strange, it was insane. Yeah. So I
called Jason and I say, I'm feeling lucky let's do it.
(32:25):
And so final show in DC, they dropped me off.
I was staying at my parents' house. I didn't have
a place yet. I had just separated from my girlfriend.
And uh, I showered and I went to the airport
and flew out to l A and they picked me
up and we played the next night in San Diego.
Didn't rehearse, so.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Just winging it, that was it. Yeah, but I suppose
the old songs you had so you could yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, And and you know it was like Chuck Berry.
A lot of it was just like watch watch Bob's
foot when it when it goes, when he stomps it down,
that's it's over. That's the end. And it's it's still
like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I was gonna say, I can actually picture his movements. Yeah,
that's hilarious. So what that was like twenty years ago? No,
that was gosh, that was probably early nine. Okay, So yeah, okay,
so you're fifteen years in. You're gonna get another gold
watch here.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
You know. That's great, and we have we have a
great new record coming out. It's really good. God.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Last time I saw you was actually at the State
Fair with Lifter Pole or Lifter with Old Steady.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
And who else was on that?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
It was the uh D four. Yes, they were great.
H yeah, that was a that was a fun night.
And uh so you you played with Tommy Kean as well,
didn't you?
Speaker 2 (33:51):
At some point with uh with Pollard? Right, Tommy was
in our band. I had a poster right here, let
me see it was, uh, Tommy Kean, me Jason and
and it's a great guy who also passed on David
Phillips And I met David. He's an Athens guy, played guitar. Yeah,
he played guitar in it. And he was the guitar player.
And Jack Logan Jack Logan in a liquor cabinet. Jack
(34:15):
is probably maybe best known for doing the artwork for
Tommy Stinson's Perfect EP or what that was? Was that
the with the squirrel? Yeah? Yeah, gotcha? Yeah? And uh
and David also played with Frank Black a lot during
his stuff. That was our band. And Tommy Keane was
one of my favorite songwriters. So great, just so great, amazing.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah, my band used to open for him when he
would come.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
From Oh yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
What's your band called High on Stress? It's called YEP.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I've it's possible I've heard the name.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Right, probably sat online at some point, I'm sure, but yeah, yeah,
we would play with with Tommy when he would come
from so great, great guy.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Super funny. I remember I remember describing him to someone
like and and Tommy Keane's playing too. He he's just
like us. He hates all the right stuff.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
So Mark uh Mark, the drummer of High on Stress.
I think you actually played a show with Mark. I
can't remember what the event was. He's in another as
we were talking about earlier, if you're a good drummer,
you're playing in multiple bands. He plays in a band.
I think it was his band, Whiskey Rock and Roll Club.
Played with Super Chunk at some event here in Minneapolis.
Think it was Grumpies or something.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Oh yes, yes, I remember. I didn't get to see
a lot of the bands, but that that was That
was the last time I think I played with Super
Chunk up there, and that that was a fun day.
I remember Mac brought his son with him, and his son.
His son's like a hip kid, but you know, he
was probably twelve or something. And just seeing the backstage
was was Tom hazel Meyer's office, I guess, and just
(35:55):
seeing Tom and a child interact was was very fun
and and Max Son going through the records and like saying,
you know, it's all not like that tough guy stuff,
you know, yeah, you know, but it was hilarious. Yeah,
that hilarious. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
So Mark the drummer and I went to Tommy's that
kind of life Yeah in La So Mark and I
went out to that and that's great. Ronnie Ronnie from
the Muffs, Yeah, I had agree. He got up at
one point and he said, I just want everyone in
this room to know that Tommy talks shit about you
(36:29):
at least once.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Oh my god. Yeah. Everybody roared, Oh so true, Like yeah,
I'm just so I'm happy that he said that, because yeah,
that's that's that's always been in there too. So funny.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, it's just his ability to know everyone. Like anytime,
like you'd be standing next to him and random people
would come up, but you know to say hi, who
just go to his shows and he would know everybody.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
It's like, how do you remember that? Right? He has
this amazing story of so uh so Peter Jasperson you know,
uh local legend. Uh back in the day he was
he was tour managing the replacements and he U gets
(37:17):
an offer to tour with RM, so so he leaves
the replacements for a little bit and and goes out
with R. E. M. And you know, it comes back
to places. But anyway, so during this Rim tour, which
happened to be several of these big shows with the police,
one of which I saw the first time I saw
Rim so Summer of eighty three, and so Arim apparently
(37:40):
no no real interaction with the police at all, and
possibly to the point of annoyance maybe, you know. And
so the story that Tommy tells is, uh, Rim are
about to go on stage, maybe at Shay Stadium and
uh and they're walking out and Tommy is there, Tommy's
(38:01):
like visiting Ram or Peter whoever, and and out pop
Sting like for the first time, and Sting looks right
at Tommy and goes have a great.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Show, showing you how much he was paying attention. Oh god,
that's hilarious. That's hilarious. So with your your tour dates,
obviously you've been out constantly, right, because well, how do
you manage first of all, your tour schedules with all
(38:35):
of these bands You just I suppose you just kind
of have to coordinate with everybody and say I'm unavailable
here to hear.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, it's all it's all booked in advance, and you know,
it causes me me great guilt, but it all works out. Uh,
no personal life, so I'm able to do it all.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Well, I suppose it probably becomes it.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
You're out on the road with your friends and hanging
out and doing the things. So well, that's that's cool.
So what are you know you mentioned early on kind
of some of the stuff that you were into. You know,
what are some of your favorite records today when you
look back, the stuff that really holds up that you're like,
this is this is.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
The Holy Grail? Here the first one that comes to mind. Uh,
that was the biggest, had the biggest impact on me
as as a kid with London calling by the Clash,
I just remember just loving it and and I just
I really liked you know, you never really know these
people as people, but I just thought these guys seem cool.
(39:31):
And I went to go see that movie Rude Boy
at the Tower Theater with my friends and and it's funny.
I saw it twice. It played played here in the theater,
uh last weekend, so I went both nights and uh yeah,
so that was a big, a big record. What else
I loved them, uh you know, talking about like punk.
(39:52):
I loved the minor threat stuff out of uh you know,
out of Step and uh uh Zen Arcade, flip your wig,
I love to let it Be and pleased to meet
me and uh, you know the first three r M
records I love and uh all that all that stuff,
(40:14):
you know, and like Soul Asylum. Soul Asylum was one
of the best live bands I ever saw. I saw
them twice on on on hangtime at a little club
here and just incredible band.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah lie, like you know, I would say that like
people would you know, people liked him, some people didn't
like the band, and I would tell the people that
didn't like the band, go see the band because they
were incredible, so good.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
And and and and great songs. Like I've honestly not
followed them, probably since you know, uh when Sterling Campbell joined,
no offense to him, but but uh, great songs. I mean,
he's a great songwriter. And then and Danny had you know,
I feel like Danny had one song, but he made
(40:58):
it count that song cartoon Man.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Oh my god, that could very well be my favorite
solo Asylum song. If not, it's in the top few
like and and honestly this is after Sterling. But he
wrote Promises Broken too, which was a hit.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Oh I don't know that one.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, that was a dim light shine I think o
that Butcher Big did that one. I can't remember, I
think so yeah, yeah, but yeah, so it's like like
you said, he made it count here you go. Yeah,
he's a great guy. I just played with him last
week at this thing here in Minneapolis.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
He played guitar with me. Oh great, great, awesome he
he He was very kind helping me with stuff for this.
These liner notes I did for while you were out. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so I did. Yeah. I can't remember how that came about.
(41:50):
Maybe maybe Jefferson suggested me or something, but they signed
off on them, so they must have thought they were okay, nice. Nice.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
So looking at your career now, you've been at this
for a long time, You've you've seen many of a
place looking back, I know this is a hard question,
but first thing that comes to mind, what album or
song are you most proud of?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Well, the song that that comes to mind immediately, the
song I've listened to the most for Pleasure that I've
played on is a song on Silver Rage, a Bob
Mold album, and the song is called The Dissent. I
just think it's it's a fabulous song. It's got Yeah,
it's just amazing. I just remember listening to that all
(42:36):
the time. And I rarely listen to stuff I play on.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
But do you have a hard time listening to it
because you're nitpicking it or what's the Yeah, that's typically
the thing, right, I could have done this differently.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, there's a great you know, he's not full of
great quotes, but but there's a Gene Simmons quote where
someone asked him why why they have producers, Like why
you have an outside producer? And he said, because when
I listen to something I've done, I only hear the mistakes.
And you know, you need that objective observer yep.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
To need that extra person in the room too that
maybe doesn't have the ego attached.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yeah. Yeah, but then it's fun it's funny, like I
find that like, like I remember thinking I played so
terribly on this record Foolish by Super Chunk, and people
love that record. But yeah, and then like like five
years later, I listened to it and like, oh, I
don't hear any of the things that I thought were
so terrible like back then. So it's all just sort
(43:36):
of you know, you have to kind of pull back
and just you know, accept it for what it is.
And then by that point you're not you don't hear
it anymore. You don't hear what you what bothered you
so much before?
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yeah, listening to your own stuff for pleasure as a
poor choice.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Oh yeah, terrible, Yeah, but no less it's a like
it's an incredible song like that, like the Bob Old
song I mentioned, is it's that sort of how great
the song is, cancels out any sort of you know, problems,
Like pretty much any of my favorite songs, there's there's
mistakes happening in there, but because you're in the moment
(44:12):
you love the song, you don't hear it, or if
you do hear it, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, And it's funny because sometimes it's the mistakes that
the people who are listening to like what you did
that was really cool kind of a thing, and you're like, yeah,
that was a mistake.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Start me up. Rolling Stones Charlie comes in like upside
down for the first couple of measures and it's brilliant.
Was it a mistake? Who knows? Probably? It's my favorite
part of the song.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hilarious. So the next thing I
want to ask too, you've been you were just stunned
the Tonight Show a few weeks ago, I think, yeah,
And you've been on Lightermen. I remember the one you
were knocking the dust off the ceiling.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
I remember that.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Oh right, Yeah, so you've done all of these things.
You're constantly touring. Sort of a show that comes to
mind is kind of that you know, magical show that
you were like, I can't believe we did that.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yeah, there's a bunch for Super Chunk. We we did
a Lollapalooza tour, so it would have been ninety five. Uh,
And we ended in in Raleigh, you know, our our closest,
closest big town, and we played you know outside, we
were we were kind of on the you know, the
second stage. But it was an incredible bill. It was
(45:25):
on our stage. It was Moby Mike watt Us, one
of the Wu Tang guys. Who would it have been
Old Bastard is is redman in you in in Wu
tang or is he not? He might not be. I've
actually seen that man. Okay, it was red Man. It
(45:48):
was red Man. It was red Man and uh yeah,
and it was just an incredible night. It was you know,
it was like it was Golden hour, sun was going down. Uh.
It was our last show of the tour or a
great crowd. I remember that being really nice. Great show
at Shepherd's Bush Empire with Bob Mold probably ten years ago.
(46:10):
That was really great. There's all kinds of Mountain Goats
have had these great New York shows recently at this
uh this place that's on top of a building, holds
about three thousand people, but you're playing you know, the
bridges are in the background. Just beautiful place. So there's
there's all all kinds of shows like that that come
(46:31):
to mind, you know, that are like, oh, well, and
it has to do a lot with the setting too, you.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Know, right, yeah, because there I suppose it's the setting
and the response of the crowd.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Yeah, exactly, you know, because it's.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
You know, you're usually playing similar songs each night, with
maybe some stuff kind of jumping in and out.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
So yeah, but oh but this this show that we
did with our with the r M Band with Michael
Shannon and Jason. We did a show at the forty
one in Athens last last was it last year? Was
it too? I can't remember when it was. I think
it was last year. But so all the guys came,
all four guys came, and and they got up on
(47:09):
stage and they and they they had words to say,
and Peter played with us, and Bill did, and Mike
and Mike sang and that that was the top five
night too.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Did you did you know ari em prior to that?
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I've known them for a good while.
And I I've played with Peter a lot over the years,
and and Mike and I were the rhythm section on
Jason Arduci is one of his h solo records. So yeah, yeah, yeah,
And and I've become friends with Bill, which is which
is a whole trip. And he's great and he seems
(47:42):
like a great dude, like just full of heart, Like
every time you see him interviewed, you're like, oh, this
guy's just awesome. Oh yeah, yeah, it means it's important
and it's important to all the all those guys and
and yeah, yeah they're they feel it. That's awesome. Awesome.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
What what I'm most proud of? We're kind of getting
here at the time. I want to let you go
go pack.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
It's funny. I I'd love to be, you know, remembered
for my music, but I think in terms of, like,
maybe if I could be remembered for one thing, it
would be this this box set that Tom Sharpling and
I put out of of Our like a best of
what we did on the Best Show for about ten years.
And Numero Group put a box set out of God.
(48:27):
It's probably like eight hours of material. We've got so
much in there. But uh so, I think in terms
of like a creative legacy, that's what That's what maybe
I'm most proud of just become Yeah yeah, I mean
I love the music and I'll you know, I'll do
it till death and it's my main thing. But but
in terms of like something that's just like one hundred
(48:48):
percent or whatever me in terms of like my creativity,
that's that's it. I think.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Do you have any favorite comedians?
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Oh? Yeah, but you know, I I love shows and
movies more than actual comedians, Like, like my favorite TV
show ever is Veepe Deep Yeah, oh yeah, And I
just love that like, I could watch I probably watched
every episode at least fifteen times. I just love it.
(49:19):
It's like soothing to me. So things like that. Tom
Sharply and I had. The first thing we bonded over
was Chris Elliott's program Get a Life. Okay, I didn't
know that. I remember him though, Yeah, yeah he had.
Oh he's so good. Yeah, all those people. And but
like comedians, I love Todd Barry, Sarah Silverman's, great Andy Kindler,
(49:47):
all kinds of people. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Nice, nice, Yeah, it's funny. I have a theory, and
I think a lot of people have this theory that
musicians want to be comedians and comedians want to be musicians,
and it's somehow you did them both.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Somehow, But it's funny. I well, it's odd. I was
talking to Matt Walsh, who plays Mike on Veep the
other day. We were talking and I told him I
came in comedy through the back door. Like I've never
had any aspirations to do comedy. I always loved it,
(50:20):
but I never saw myself doing it. And somehow I
met Tom Sharpling and it was two guys that don't
really love to be in the spotlight much so we're
able to like build this thing just on the phone.
So I basically I call into his show every I've
been doing it for today's our twenty fifth anniversary of
doing it. But so somehow that's how I got into
(50:45):
the comedy world, just by writing these funny calls with Tom,
And that's how I got in. Everything I ever did
in comedy kind of came from that right place at
the right time. Yeah, totally, totally. What do you attribute
that to?
Speaker 1 (50:59):
How are you the guy that's in the right place
at the right time. Is it just luck card you
feel like you're putting yourself out there to have stuff
happen or what do you.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
I'll tell you. And I don't talk about this a lot,
but I believe in all the law of attraction stuff,
and I think I think there are there are certain
rules that like that are just sort of in the
ephemera where I had such a hard time getting stuff
going between, like when Super Chunk went on hiatus in
like one and probably till like two thousand and eight
(51:30):
or something, because I was trying so hard, like I
was just like hammering, just trying to get breaks. And
when I stopped hammering, That's when everything came and I
haven't hammered hammered since.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
John Worster, that was a blast, right good guy, great story,
accomplished so much and literally one of the best rock
drummers around today. So big thanks to John for being
on the episode, and good luck and say travels on
(52:12):
all of the upcoming tours. We'll be back with more
episodes soon, but in the meantime, thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
From a studio twenty four.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
This has been the Figure eight podcast.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Because I'm running.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Down long, You're weird.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Because I'm running out long. I can't imagine its sport,
but I brought it out. Weird
You are listening to the Figure eights podcast. I'm your
host Nick Leet from the band High on Stress so
out of Minneapolis, Minnesota. And today's guest is fucking John Worster.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah. John Worster's on this show. How cool is that
one of.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
The great greatest drummer sits out there today. You know
him as the drummer for the Bob Mold band, Super Chunk,
the Mountain Goats. He's appeared on Puless Records. He's you know, uh,
He's performed with Ben Gibbert from Dead Gab for Cutie
(00:55):
Rocket from the Crypts.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
He's played with R. E. M.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
S Tommy, and he's also a comedy guy.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
He's appeared on.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
The Best Show with Tom Sharpling. So big time guests today,
great conversation with John. Fantastic warm guy, easy to talk
to you.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So I think you're gonna dig this one.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So without further ado, I bring you drum Wizard John Worster.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Black good just uh, you know, crunch time getting ready
for these the R. E. M. Thing and and a
Bob moldtour.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So yeah, yeah, So when you hit the road, like
next week Tuesday, Tuesday, fly to Chicago, and uh, we're
kind of based there.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Everybody but but John Stearrett and myself are are Illinois dudes. Uh,
so that's where we meet. We rehearse for a day
and then we head out west. Nice.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
How many shows? This is the rin thing you're doing
on this tour, right?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah? With Michael Shannon. Yeah, so it's it's Michael Shannon,
me Jason on guitar. Dog our friend Dog is playing guitar.
He plays in a band called POI Dog Pondering Okay, yeah,
and John Starrett on bass, our friend but Jay on keyboards,
and and it's gonna be fun. It's a hell of
(02:22):
a lineup.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Pretty cool. Did you do the last one as well?
I know this is the okay, yeah, because you were
here for then for the first Avenue one that they did,
which I wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I'm in Minneapolis. Okay. Oh that was a great one too.
That was great. I heard it was fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Did you do the Dylan thing recently in Oklahoma?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
No, No, I was. I was on a recording gig
during that, so that was just Jason and h and Michael.
But I've been to the the Dylan Center a few
times and oh, it's so much fun, it's so great. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Do they explain why it's there and not in Minnesota
or New York?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah? Yeah, And I think he might have even specified
that that's where it should be.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Leave it to Dylan to be mysterious, like what so.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Weird, so weird? And Uh, my understanding is you know
he he's already played this. Uh they're going to start
the next tour in Tulsa, and the theater where they
play is I mean, it's I feel like it's two
blocks from the place, and I don't think he came
last time. I'm wondering if because they're starting there on
(03:33):
this tour, maybe maybe he's gonna slip in that's like
at two am the night before or something. Who knows.
Are you from North Carolina originally? No, I'm from outside Philadelphia.
I grew up in a town called Harleysville, which is God.
It seemed like it was a world away from the
city back then, but it was only thirty five miles.
(03:55):
But it was when you're a kid, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
And it was farmlands, you know, menon night kind of turf,
so it was it wasn't at all happening any music
there at all. Just no in the records. No one's
really playing no, no, there were no bands. But I
was really I was really lucky. When I was fourteen,
(04:21):
I got in this band. Uh so, this is nineteen
eighty one. There's really not a lot of new waiver punk,
you know, in my area. But I found some guys
who are into it. They were all way older than me.
So we had a band called Hair Club for Men,
and we would play shows with this other band that
(04:42):
just was happened to be in our area who was
also kind of in the same but it was a
duo called Narthex, and the drummer for Narthex went on
to become the drummer in The Dead Milkmen, Dean Clean. Yes,
so so so he They kind of took me under
their wing when they they were forming The Dead Milkmen.
So so through them, I got to inch my way
(05:05):
closer to the city every year, you know what I mean.
So by by the time I was like eighteen or something,
I felt like I was kind of freeing.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I could do things in the city. Now, did you
say Philly was the closest big city? Yeah, yeah, okay, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
When did you start playing drums. I started taking lessons
when I was ten. But when you're a kid, you know,
it's you want a drum set and you just want
to bash on a drum set and they give you
a little pat and yeah yeah. So you know, it
was so not fun for a ten year old that
I ended up stopping and then started up again a
(05:42):
few years later, and my parents got me a drum kit,
and thank god they were so cool about me play.
It's the worst instrument for a parent, you know, so
absolutely yeah. So so I just started playing along with
records and then this band hair Club for Men formed,
so I was in a band and so that that's
kind of how I started.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
What what were you playing along to or some of
those records?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, it's funny. The first record I when I realized
I could put headphones on and play along and you know,
still here was Squeezing Out Sparks by Graham Parker and
the rumor Wow, And I had this while I've told
this story before, but I think I think it's worth telling.
So the Mountain Goats, this UH band I play in.
(06:26):
We we were doing this kind of residency at one
of these what's it called the UH they have them
all over the country. Now it's it's a like a
sit down, seated club. And I'm spacing on the name. Uh,
somebody will chime in. But anyway, So we were doing
three nights at this place in New York, and during
(06:49):
sound check on the final day, they brought these kids
in to like ask us questions about being in a
band and things, and and one kid asked me, you know, uh,
that very question, what was the first record I played
along with? And I told him it was this Grand
Parker and the Rumor record. And so that was the
final day of Oh City Winery.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
That's what those clubs are called, the city.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Sorry. Yeah. So next day I'm leaving for the first
show of a Bob moldtour and it was it was
in Madison, Wisconsin. So I connected there in Chicago and
so I come out of my little you know, my
into the into the waiting gate area off my plane.
First two people I see standing there Graham Parker and
(07:36):
I'm facally this damn guitar player Brinsley Swarz, who played
guitar and the Rumor and and I was so I
was so excited. I just ran up to them and
started talking. I just said, oh my god, the first
record I've ever played. And they're like whoa and uh
and they're like, who are you? You look familiar and
I said, I'm out there, but but uh, you know,
(07:57):
blah blah blah. And it turned out they were at
the the Bob Mults show two days later at First Avenue.
Really yeah, yeah, I guess they were playing. And it
was the day Prince died.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Oh what a crazy day that was.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Oh my god, that was oh yeah, god. But I
will say that was an amazing night. We we heard
the news on the drive in from Madison and and
we couldn't believe it, but then you know, it was confirmed,
so it was it was it was just me and
Bob and and Bob's partner, huh Don. And so you know,
(08:35):
we're just listening to all these reports come in and
we get there and by chance, Bob Starr at First
Ave is right next to Princes so so you know,
so we were staying like two blocks away, and I
wandered over and there were already people, you know, putting
flowers down, and you know, CNN's there, and and that
night they must have just done this, you know, on
(08:56):
the fly they put a show together. Yeah, outside of
First Avenue, I guess it was a lot of people
that played, you know with him over the years, local people,
and it was just amazing and like every time I hear,
what's the song damp but dah da, I want to
be your lover? Yeah, like that that was blasting just
(09:17):
in the city, Like it was crazy. All the lights
were purple like on the buildings and I couldn't go,
couldn't bring myself to do it. I should have. It
was so sad, but it was also like, wow, this
is the importance of music.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Well did you hear why they had permission to do that?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
No? No, okay, Well this is a fun story.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So if Prince laur Prince must have been two thousand
and seven, you know he had the thing with seven,
so it was seven seven oh seven.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
He did.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
At Macy's Downtown, he played like a show, and then
later that night he played at the Target Center, and
then later that night he played at First Avenue And
the First Avenue show started late and the cops broke
it up because it was past bar close and they
shut the show down, which is insane, Like come so
(10:10):
what they did and this is kind of kind of amazing.
And how it all panned out is they they put
together legislature that said basically, bar closes bar clothes unless
we have the Prince Rule.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Wow. And the Prince.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Rule was put into effect so that they could do
that that night outside. Otherwise it would have happened, but
it was because they shut that last showdown and they
had a Prince rule in Minneapolis.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh oh my god. I always sympathize with people like
Michael Bland, you know, his his drummer, just like you
have to play three shows a day on that tour,
you know from I mean you're you're playing drums or
whatever from you know, from two pm to two am.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And it's not like Bland hit soft like I'm sure
he's worn out.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah yeah, oh my god. So crazy. Oh yeah, that's crazy.
But that's that's why that happened. So pretty cool, pretty cool.
That's tomorrow's rock and roll weirdness. Oh there you go.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, I'm sure you could find some stories online about
it too. But it's uh so, as were you a
Prince fan as a kid, then it sounds like it
was early eighties, so it's probably prime. There's a little
outside of your scope at that point.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Well, I was really into you know, like punk rock
and new wave and stuff. But but he was kind
of in that too, Like I like I he I
liked like I remember having controversy as a kid, and
and and but I don't think I was aware of
like the first record, but but I remember, yeah, really
(11:46):
liking that, and and his videos were great too, and
because so like I mean, he was almost punk you know,
in his own way. So so yeah, that kind of
filtered in my world a little bit, but not not
a whole lot. But I I totally you know, I
appreciate and then I loved, you know, all the hits
that came to and just his his work ethic too
is insane. Yeah, and it's general weirdness. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, did you have you played the Armory in Minneapolis?
I can't remember if I've no, but uh, Bob.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Mole tells the story of I think Hooskers opened for
the Dead Kennedys there.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Okay, okay, because that's where the nineteen ninety nine Prince
video was shot too.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yep. Yeah, well and I think they started having shows
again there is that correct.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
A great And I was wondering because I've seen the
Mountain Goats with you in it. I couldn't remember if
it was their first have or the Palace, but.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I think it might have been the Palace. Yeah, that's
where we last played, gotcha? That was that was probably
last time. I said.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And I've seen you with Bob Colinos college.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah. Cool? Cool?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
So when did you When did you leave that small town?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Well, it's an interesting story. I was I was nineteen,
so this is nineteen. This is early eighty six, I
think like January of eighty six, and I was in
a band that played in UH Base in Philadelphia. I
was still living at home in the Farmlands, and our
band was called Psychotic Norman and we were like a
(13:13):
weird It was like a weird cross between the Minutemen,
The Fall, the Ramones and some some and our singers
sounded like, uh, the guy in Canned Heat who sings
going up the country, you gotta do good. That's very
specific voice. Al al Fisher Is that his name? Al
Al something? Anyway, So that band was kind I felt
(13:40):
like I was the only one in the band that
had like a real work ethic, you know what I mean. Like,
so the the Final Straw, the Final Straw, I don't
know how true this is, but my memory is that
our bassist whose house we practiced in, uh, had gone
to New York to see the replacements or something, and
he didn't come back in time to rehearse on Sunday
(14:02):
at his own house, and so I was upset about that. Uh.
And by chance, that night my my brother called. And
by this point, my older brother was on a track
scholarship at wake Forest University in Winston Salem, n C.
So uh, And at this point I loved all that
North Carolina jangle stuff that's active and the dbs and
(14:24):
the ram stuff so great. Yeah. So by chance, one
of these bands who I liked, whose record I sent
away for in high school, this band called the Right Profile.
You've never heard of them, although one of our main
singers went on to co write the Freakonomics book Stephen J. Dubner. Wow. Yeah.
(14:47):
So anyway, so he was in the band and it
was like a roots rock band. And my brother calls
that night of the no show at our our practice
in Philly and says, I saw these guys today, you know,
and he kind of knew them, and said their drummer
just left, and would you want to try out, So
I was like, yeah, like I'd.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Like something more stables. Yeah, that was your Dave Grohl moment. Yeah,
like oh falling apart at the right time.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah. So, uh my dad gave me probably one hundred
bucks to fly down and uh brother picked me up
or a friend of his picked me up and went
to the band house. And at this point I'd only
corresponded with him via via writing, and uh, we just
we all hit it off. They were a little older
than me, and uh, I tried out and I got
(15:35):
in the band. And four months later we're in Clive
Davis's office at Ariston and he signed us. WHOA what
a trip? Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, four months after the no show.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, I mean it all went downhill from there, like
we need signed and does. But but we got got
to work with some cool producers Pete Pete Anderson who
did the the Dwight Yoakum records. Uh, and we got
halfway into a record at art in Memphis with Jim
Dickinson just after pleased to meet me. But it just
(16:06):
it was the eighties and he was second guessing his
own way of doing stuff. So it just was it
was sounding too slick and it wasn't his fault. So
we cut bait and we ended up, you know, going
into the hell that all bands go into, and that
dragged on until like ninety one.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Did the record come out?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
No? No, never finished it.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Oh and that was the only record that you were
That was the first record for the label. Yep, wow,
so what happened there? They just lose an A and
R guy.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Oh well, this is amazing. So maybe a year or
two into this into our signing, things were, you know,
things were just like it, you know, going at the
speed of molasses. Everything is. So that's why I was
so excited to getting super Chunk. Afterwards, I was like,
I thought, oh yeah, you can put your own records out,
you know, and do it on your own. Yeah. So,
(16:58):
like the major label thing was was awful, but oh
so so so then a friend of mine from Philly said, oh, yeah,
I heard that you you guys were a revenge signing.
So basically there was an A and R guy at
Arista who wanted to sign us and Clive didn't want
(17:20):
to sign us, and then that guy left to another
label and then Clive signed us, so which I don't
doubt who knows. Wow, the politics.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Okay, So then you went on to so it was
super Chunk right after that.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Then, yeah, I that band. We ended up getting a
publishing deal with this company, and through the publishing deal,
we got to do a session with Steve Jordan, the
drummer who's now in the Rolling Stones.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yep, just did the new Soul Asylum record, the new one.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Oh my god, he did. He did them after he
did the session I'm about to talk about. Nice. Yeah,
So the woman that signed us to that publishing deal said,
I think you guys should record with Steve Jordan. And
by this point Steve was, uh, he might have been
out of the Letterman band by this point, I guess,
(18:20):
but he was. He was producing stuff and Soul Asylum
was an early one, and I remember him telling the
story of going to First Avenue Too to see them play.
So this would have been eighty eight maybe or something,
and and my memory is he ended up just hanging
out with eleanor Mondale all night. So but anyway, so
(18:49):
we ended up doing a recording session with Steve at
this place called the Hit Factory in Times Square and
it was just the most transformative musical event for me
in my life. It was just amazing. He Uh, I
learned so much from him in just a week, without
(19:11):
him ever really telling me what to do. I was
just sort of absorbed his thing, and and you know
what he did and what he didn't do, and and
it just kind of changed my life. And and uh
so not long after that, I moved to Chapel Hill
(19:33):
from Winston Salem and I ended up joining Super Chunk.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
How did that come about?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, it was a band I knew of, and I
knew Mac the singer for a little bit. I was
living in northern New Jersey with the right profile guys
when Mac was in at Columbia University, so I would
see him at shows at Maxwell. It's like soul Asylum
or whoever. And so I knew him a little bit
(20:03):
through that. And then when I moved to town, I
got a job as a window washer here in Chapel Hill,
and one of our accounts was school Kids Records, where
he worked. And so I came back from this really
rough tour by that band that Steve Jordan produced, and
(20:26):
we went all the way out west to try to
get a record deal. So now it's like summer of
ninety one and nothing happened. It was terrible. And the
day I get back, I go stop in at my
brother's office here in Chapel Hill and he goes, hey,
Matt called, and I was like, please be what I
hope it is. And so I went to the store
(20:46):
and we talked and basically they were having trouble with
their drummer and they had one tour that they were
going to do with mud Honey opening for mud Honey,
and he said, you know, if things don't work out,
would you want to come in? And I was like, yeah, sure.
So for the next like two weeks or three, I
went on on washing windows and listening to their their
(21:10):
second record, which was about to come out. So and
then I got in. Yeah, and that was it for
the next eleven years or so.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
No more window washing.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I'm sure I had I'm sure I'm sure I had
to come back at some point, but eventually it was.
It was a great day when I didn't have to.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, so, how were these like giant buildings? Were you
like one of those window washers that are or is
this just you're doing some office buildings, office and residential? Okay,
so none of those crazy skyscrapers.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
No, the first day though, these assholes who who I
worked with, they did like send me up on the
ladder like to do a skylight is I guess that
must have been the yeah, you know, to see if
you could hang. Yeah, but they were all right, like,
we would don't tell anyone we would. We would definitely
ditch work and go watch TV at one of the
guy's houses during the day.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So that's hilarious. Yeah, I've always wondered about window washers.
I'm like, I don't, like, I don't think I would
enjoy that much.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So so you joined Super Chunk, So you weren't on
that tour they were on the mud honey, but you
joined after Is that kind of it didn't pan out?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Okay? Yeah, and then we did a huge European tour
with them maybe four months later.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Okay, so you were kind of on the second f
So they came back and they're like, yes, this is
definitely not work.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, it's being in a van. Will sometimes do
to people. And he's great. The guy I took over
from is you know, oh my god, it took me
forever to kind of even approach duplicating. He's super great
at these fast rolls on and which I was never
great at, but so it took me years to come
up to speed on that.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
So how you were in super Chunk forever until somewhat recently?
Right your year two go? Maybe I can't keep tragging
time anymore?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Probably two?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Okay, So how long was that was that you say
ninety one?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I joined in? Uh, it's funny, I joined. I feel
like I I met Laura and maybe Jim the guitar
player at a Nirvana show. It would have been right
when Nevermind came out, So I feel I have a
(23:26):
memory of meeting the two of them that night, and
I think I was in the I think we rehearsed
a few days later, so like late from yeah, yeah,
followup ninety one? Yeah, gotcha? And I I retired, Uh
probably January of maybe two years ago. I think, Yeah,
did they give you a watch or anything? That's a
long time nothing? No, not even a gold watch. Laura
(23:50):
did make that joke though, Laura said, I think we
should give you a watch or something.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Well, good, it's not just me then, no, No, that's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
So were you just doing a lot of session where
or playing other bands too? When you're a good drummer,
you end up in a lot of bands. That's kind
of the thing.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah, good saying drummers are not easy to find. I think.
So like that River City High record that came through
Brian Paulson, who produced some Super Chunk records, and of
course the Wilco and Sunbolt stuff and awesome. Yeah he's
great and uh so he he brought me and I
had never I hadn't met them before uh that day,
(24:28):
and we did it at this cool stage studio that
David Lowry had in uh in Richmond called the Sound
of Music. Okay, yeah, nice. Nice.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So were you just uh were you playing in any
other bands during this time or was it just.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
That's all during super Chunk, all of it, that's all
during Super Chunk. Yeah, so I think that's how people
would find out about me or or you know, uh yeah,
so all kinds of stuff like that, and and you know,
as time went on, I was in the right place
at right time a lot like I mean, he's he's
canceled now, but but but but yeah, yeah, I was
(25:09):
in a bar in Manhattan. God, this would have been
this would have been like spring of ninety eight, I
think and Ryan Adams comes in and and I knew
him because his band would open for a band I
would play in sometimes around here. And and he goes, oh, man,
and like he was looking like this, I'm looking for
(25:30):
a drummer, like a specific like a guy, a specific guy.
And I go, I'm a drummer. And and so I
was leaving town the next day, and he goes, well,
I'm doing this recording session and help oken tomorrow, you know,
play on it. I was like, great, but I didn't
quite trust him, so I said, I'm leave. I'm leaving
(25:52):
at I'm leaving at ten am tomorrow. If I don't
hear from you, I'm gonna go called at nine point thirty,
and and we did it, and I I ended up
playing in Whiskeytown UH on a John Fogerty tour the
next that summer.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Wow, did you record it? You recorded some stuff as well?
Was that on pneumonia or was it just.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Any any anything came out? But so we kind of ended,
you know, acrimoniously, as as as you do. And and
then and then a year later or so, he calls me,
and I was at UH at my job at a
used bookstore here and he wanted me to play on
what would be Pneumonia. Yeah, and so he came down
(26:33):
and and uh, the band was me, him, James E.
Haff from the Smashing Pumpkins as you will, uh, and
a couple of her great local guys who were in
Whiskeytown when I played in Whiskeytown. And it was produced
by by Ethan John's who's Glenn John's son experience, Well
(26:56):
it was and then so we rehearsed and that was great.
It was really fun. None of these songs, as far
as I know, ever made it onto anything. And Ethan's
final words to me the day he left for I
can't wait to do it. You know what kind of
drums do you like? I said, I'm sure anything would
be great, you know, I'm sure we'll find something great.
(27:17):
Never heard a word from anybody again again. And Ethan
ended up playing the drums on it. And so yeah,
So all that to say, I was in the right
place at the right time there and that's happened all
my life, like got to play, got to record with
Nick Cave, being the pretenders for a night, Bob Bob
(27:41):
mold stuff, you know, all of it. It's just never never, uh,
never rule anything out.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, and you never heard from Ryan Adams again after that.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I'm sure I saw him over the years, and we
kind of did reconnect just a year before everything went
down again. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Think he's a really great songwriter, and uh, you know,
I think he got away with a lot of poor
behavior for a long time based on that, but I
think that was a step too.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Far right at the at the time I played with him,
he was the most natural musician I'd ever played with. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had Phil Launcher on. Oh yeah, Oh my god,
like Phil?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, Phil, Oh my god. Phil is hilarious. And he
told many of a fine story. Oh I bet yeah,
Oh poor Phil what he had to deal with.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Oh my god. Oh yeah, he's a trip.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
So so when does when does Bob come around? Then?
Obviously you grew up being a fan of Bob as
most people did.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, a huge Husker fan.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
For me.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
The you know, it's it's so funny. I got I
got to play with all these people. Now. My friend DeWitt,
who is who has been Ram's longtime equipment guy forever,
we met before he got that gig, and and we
joke about the Holy Trinity for us is replacements Hoosker
Do and and R E. M. And so sounds like
(29:06):
you need to move to Minneapolis, right Yeah? Yeah? So
you know, yeah, I was a huge Bob fan my
entire life. I think I probably saw every tour, like
every solo tour, all of it. And I got to
interview him for the Uh it was a tour he
was doing this very kind of controversial tour in terms
of his career. It was the one where he was
playing you know, with backup stuff and all that modulate
(29:30):
I think is the album people weiing, Oh my god.
Yeah yeah, and there were there were like lasting ramifications
from that too, which which was really sad that you know,
people were you know, when I joined, it was very
much you know, digging back out, you know in terms
of like no I play rock and roll. You know
(29:51):
this that was a that was a sliver of my
of my of my thing. And now you all think
I'm share or something, right, you know, so let it
let an art, Yeah exactly, exactly. Yeah. So and I'm
sure if he did that today, no, we would nobody
would bat an eye, you know, it would just be, oh,
this is what this guy's doing now? But in whatever
two thousand whenever that was, that was, that was wild.
(30:13):
So I interviewed him for the Weekly here in Chapel
Hill about that and had a great talk. And then,
you know, fast forward years. Uh, my ex Angie, she
was Bob's publicist when he put out one record on
this label here in Chapel Hill called YEP Rock, And
so I remember going to the record release party in
(30:35):
d C when he was living there and had a
nice talk with him. And so fast forward a few
more years, Brendan Canty is playing drums with him and yeah,
and so Brendan couldn't do this tour that they they
had lined up. Uh. And by this point I was
friends with Jason Rduci. Uh. Jason Rducy Uh plays bass
(30:56):
with uh with the Bob Molevant and he's the co
headliner of this Michael Shannon rim tour we're doing. So
I first played with Jason in the Robert Pollard band. Uh. Yeah.
So when when Bob Pollard went solo in I don't
know when that was oh five or something or six,
I was in his band with Jason. So fast forward
(31:20):
to this Bob moldtour. Jason calls me asked if I
can do it, and I was in the Mountain Goats
at this point, we had a lot of touring, and
I said, I can't believe I'm about to say this,
but I can't do it. And so then maybe just
like a few weeks later, a month later, I get
a call again from Jason and I'm on tour with
the Mountain Goes. We have two more shows to go
(31:40):
and I'm in I'm in Philly, and he goes, would
you be able to do this this European tour that's
coming up in May and I think it's probably like
March now, and I said, yeah, yeah, I will, and
so we're all excited. And then he called back the
next day it was like, can you finish out this
tour we're on right now? Like the drummer, it was
(32:03):
just the wrong guy for it, yeah, you know, And
so I think they they realized, no, the tour was happening. Yeah.
So they had a little break and by chance, we
had to cancel this Mountain Goes tour of Australia that day.
Your timing is strange, it was insane. Yeah. So I
called Jason and I say, I'm feeling lucky let's do it.
(32:25):
And so final show in DC, they dropped me off.
I was staying at my parents' house. I didn't have
a place yet. I had just separated from my girlfriend.
And uh, I showered and I went to the airport
and flew out to l A and they picked me
up and we played the next night in San Diego.
Didn't rehearse, so.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Just winging it, that was it. Yeah, but I suppose
the old songs you had so you could yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, And and you know it was like Chuck Berry.
A lot of it was just like watch watch Bob's
foot when it when it goes, when he stomps it down,
that's it's over. That's the end. And it's it's still
like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I was gonna say, I can actually picture his movements. Yeah,
that's hilarious. So what that was like twenty years ago? No,
that was gosh, that was probably early nine. Okay, So yeah, okay,
so you're fifteen years in. You're gonna get another gold
watch here.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
You know. That's great, and we have we have a
great new record coming out. It's really good. God.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Last time I saw you was actually at the State
Fair with Lifter Pole or Lifter with Old Steady.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
And who else was on that?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
It was the uh D four. Yes, they were great.
H yeah, that was a that was a fun night.
And uh so you you played with Tommy Kean as well,
didn't you?
Speaker 2 (33:51):
At some point with uh with Pollard? Right, Tommy was
in our band. I had a poster right here, let
me see it was, uh, Tommy Kean, me Jason and
and it's a great guy who also passed on David
Phillips And I met David. He's an Athens guy, played guitar. Yeah,
he played guitar in it. And he was the guitar player.
And Jack Logan Jack Logan in a liquor cabinet. Jack
(34:15):
is probably maybe best known for doing the artwork for
Tommy Stinson's Perfect EP or what that was? Was that
the with the squirrel? Yeah? Yeah, gotcha? Yeah? And uh
and David also played with Frank Black a lot during
his stuff. That was our band. And Tommy Keane was
one of my favorite songwriters. So great, just so great, amazing.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah, my band used to open for him when he
would come.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
From Oh yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
What's your band called High on Stress? It's called YEP.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I've it's possible I've heard the name.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Right, probably sat online at some point, I'm sure, but yeah, yeah,
we would play with with Tommy when he would come
from so great, great guy.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Super funny. I remember I remember describing him to someone
like and and Tommy Keane's playing too. He he's just
like us. He hates all the right stuff.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
So Mark uh Mark, the drummer of High on Stress.
I think you actually played a show with Mark. I
can't remember what the event was. He's in another as
we were talking about earlier, if you're a good drummer,
you're playing in multiple bands. He plays in a band.
I think it was his band, Whiskey Rock and Roll Club.
Played with Super Chunk at some event here in Minneapolis.
Think it was Grumpies or something.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Oh yes, yes, I remember. I didn't get to see
a lot of the bands, but that that was That
was the last time I think I played with Super
Chunk up there, and that that was a fun day.
I remember Mac brought his son with him, and his son.
His son's like a hip kid, but you know, he
was probably twelve or something. And just seeing the backstage
was was Tom hazel Meyer's office, I guess, and just
(35:55):
seeing Tom and a child interact was was very fun
and and Max Son going through the records and like saying,
you know, it's all not like that tough guy stuff,
you know, yeah, you know, but it was hilarious. Yeah,
that hilarious. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
So Mark the drummer and I went to Tommy's that
kind of life Yeah in La So Mark and I
went out to that and that's great. Ronnie Ronnie from
the Muffs, Yeah, I had agree. He got up at
one point and he said, I just want everyone in
this room to know that Tommy talks shit about you
(36:29):
at least once.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Oh my god. Yeah. Everybody roared, Oh so true, Like yeah,
I'm just so I'm happy that he said that, because yeah,
that's that's that's always been in there too. So funny.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, it's just his ability to know everyone. Like anytime,
like you'd be standing next to him and random people
would come up, but you know to say hi, who
just go to his shows and he would know everybody.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
It's like, how do you remember that? Right? He has
this amazing story of so uh so Peter Jasperson you know,
uh local legend. Uh back in the day he was
he was tour managing the replacements and he U gets
(37:17):
an offer to tour with RM, so so he leaves
the replacements for a little bit and and goes out
with R. E. M. And you know, it comes back
to places. But anyway, so during this Rim tour, which
happened to be several of these big shows with the police,
one of which I saw the first time I saw
Rim so Summer of eighty three, and so Arim apparently
(37:40):
no no real interaction with the police at all, and
possibly to the point of annoyance maybe, you know. And
so the story that Tommy tells is, uh, Rim are
about to go on stage, maybe at Shay Stadium and
uh and they're walking out and Tommy is there, Tommy's
(38:01):
like visiting Ram or Peter whoever, and and out pop
Sting like for the first time, and Sting looks right
at Tommy and goes have a great.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Show, showing you how much he was paying attention. Oh god,
that's hilarious. That's hilarious. So with your your tour dates,
obviously you've been out constantly, right, because well, how do
you manage first of all, your tour schedules with all
(38:35):
of these bands You just I suppose you just kind
of have to coordinate with everybody and say I'm unavailable
here to hear.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, it's all it's all booked in advance, and you know,
it causes me me great guilt, but it all works out. Uh,
no personal life, so I'm able to do it all.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Well, I suppose it probably becomes it.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
You're out on the road with your friends and hanging
out and doing the things. So well, that's that's cool.
So what are you know you mentioned early on kind
of some of the stuff that you were into. You know,
what are some of your favorite records today when you
look back, the stuff that really holds up that you're like,
this is this is.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
The Holy Grail? Here the first one that comes to mind. Uh,
that was the biggest, had the biggest impact on me
as as a kid with London calling by the Clash,
I just remember just loving it and and I just
I really liked you know, you never really know these
people as people, but I just thought these guys seem cool.
(39:31):
And I went to go see that movie Rude Boy
at the Tower Theater with my friends and and it's funny.
I saw it twice. It played played here in the theater,
uh last weekend, so I went both nights and uh yeah,
so that was a big, a big record. What else
I loved them, uh you know, talking about like punk.
(39:52):
I loved the minor threat stuff out of uh you know,
out of Step and uh uh Zen Arcade, flip your wig,
I love to let it Be and pleased to meet
me and uh, you know the first three r M
records I love and uh all that all that stuff,
(40:14):
you know, and like Soul Asylum. Soul Asylum was one
of the best live bands I ever saw. I saw
them twice on on on hangtime at a little club
here and just incredible band.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah lie, like you know, I would say that like
people would you know, people liked him, some people didn't
like the band, and I would tell the people that
didn't like the band, go see the band because they
were incredible, so good.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
And and and and great songs. Like I've honestly not
followed them, probably since you know, uh when Sterling Campbell joined,
no offense to him, but but uh, great songs. I mean,
he's a great songwriter. And then and Danny had you know,
I feel like Danny had one song, but he made
(40:58):
it count that song cartoon Man.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Oh my god, that could very well be my favorite
solo Asylum song. If not, it's in the top few
like and and honestly this is after Sterling. But he
wrote Promises Broken too, which was a hit.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Oh I don't know that one.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, that was a dim light shine I think o
that Butcher Big did that one. I can't remember, I
think so yeah, yeah, but yeah, so it's like like
you said, he made it count here you go. Yeah,
he's a great guy. I just played with him last
week at this thing here in Minneapolis.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
He played guitar with me. Oh great, great, awesome he
he He was very kind helping me with stuff for this.
These liner notes I did for while you were out. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so I did. Yeah. I can't remember how that came about.
(41:50):
Maybe maybe Jefferson suggested me or something, but they signed
off on them, so they must have thought they were okay, nice. Nice.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
So looking at your career now, you've been at this
for a long time, You've you've seen many of a
place looking back, I know this is a hard question,
but first thing that comes to mind, what album or
song are you most proud of?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Well, the song that that comes to mind immediately, the
song I've listened to the most for Pleasure that I've
played on is a song on Silver Rage, a Bob
Mold album, and the song is called The Dissent. I
just think it's it's a fabulous song. It's got Yeah,
it's just amazing. I just remember listening to that all
(42:36):
the time. And I rarely listen to stuff I play on.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
But do you have a hard time listening to it
because you're nitpicking it or what's the Yeah, that's typically
the thing, right, I could have done this differently.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, there's a great you know, he's not full of
great quotes, but but there's a Gene Simmons quote where
someone asked him why why they have producers, Like why
you have an outside producer? And he said, because when
I listen to something I've done, I only hear the mistakes.
And you know, you need that objective observer yep.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
To need that extra person in the room too that
maybe doesn't have the ego attached.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yeah. Yeah, but then it's fun it's funny, like I
find that like, like I remember thinking I played so
terribly on this record Foolish by Super Chunk, and people
love that record. But yeah, and then like like five
years later, I listened to it and like, oh, I
don't hear any of the things that I thought were
so terrible like back then. So it's all just sort
(43:36):
of you know, you have to kind of pull back
and just you know, accept it for what it is.
And then by that point you're not you don't hear
it anymore. You don't hear what you what bothered you
so much before?
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yeah, listening to your own stuff for pleasure as a
poor choice.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Oh yeah, terrible, Yeah, but no less it's a like
it's an incredible song like that, like the Bob Old
song I mentioned, is it's that sort of how great
the song is, cancels out any sort of you know, problems,
Like pretty much any of my favorite songs, there's there's
mistakes happening in there, but because you're in the moment
(44:12):
you love the song, you don't hear it, or if
you do hear it, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, And it's funny because sometimes it's the mistakes that
the people who are listening to like what you did
that was really cool kind of a thing, and you're like, yeah,
that was a mistake.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Start me up. Rolling Stones Charlie comes in like upside
down for the first couple of measures and it's brilliant.
Was it a mistake? Who knows? Probably? It's my favorite
part of the song.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hilarious. So the next thing I
want to ask too, you've been you were just stunned
the Tonight Show a few weeks ago, I think, yeah,
And you've been on Lightermen. I remember the one you
were knocking the dust off the ceiling.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
I remember that.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Oh right, Yeah, so you've done all of these things.
You're constantly touring. Sort of a show that comes to
mind is kind of that you know, magical show that
you were like, I can't believe we did that.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yeah, there's a bunch for Super Chunk. We we did
a Lollapalooza tour, so it would have been ninety five. Uh,
And we ended in in Raleigh, you know, our our closest,
closest big town, and we played you know outside, we
were we were kind of on the you know, the
second stage. But it was an incredible bill. It was
(45:25):
on our stage. It was Moby Mike watt Us, one
of the Wu Tang guys. Who would it have been
Old Bastard is is redman in you in in Wu
tang or is he not? He might not be. I've
actually seen that man. Okay, it was red Man. It
(45:48):
was red Man. It was red Man and uh yeah,
and it was just an incredible night. It was you know,
it was like it was Golden hour, sun was going down. Uh.
It was our last show of the tour or a
great crowd. I remember that being really nice. Great show
at Shepherd's Bush Empire with Bob Mold probably ten years ago.
(46:10):
That was really great. There's all kinds of Mountain Goats
have had these great New York shows recently at this
uh this place that's on top of a building, holds
about three thousand people, but you're playing you know, the
bridges are in the background. Just beautiful place. So there's
there's all all kinds of shows like that that come
(46:31):
to mind, you know, that are like, oh, well, and
it has to do a lot with the setting too, you.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Know, right, yeah, because there I suppose it's the setting
and the response of the crowd.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Yeah, exactly, you know, because it's.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
You know, you're usually playing similar songs each night, with
maybe some stuff kind of jumping in and out.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
So yeah, but oh but this this show that we
did with our with the r M Band with Michael
Shannon and Jason. We did a show at the forty
one in Athens last last was it last year? Was
it too? I can't remember when it was. I think
it was last year. But so all the guys came,
all four guys came, and and they got up on
(47:09):
stage and they and they they had words to say,
and Peter played with us, and Bill did, and Mike
and Mike sang and that that was the top five
night too.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Did you did you know ari em prior to that?
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I've known them for a good while.
And I I've played with Peter a lot over the years,
and and Mike and I were the rhythm section on
Jason Arduci is one of his h solo records. So yeah, yeah, yeah,
And and I've become friends with Bill, which is which
is a whole trip. And he's great and he seems
(47:42):
like a great dude, like just full of heart, Like
every time you see him interviewed, you're like, oh, this
guy's just awesome. Oh yeah, yeah, it means it's important
and it's important to all the all those guys and
and yeah, yeah they're they feel it. That's awesome. Awesome.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
What what I'm most proud of? We're kind of getting
here at the time. I want to let you go
go pack.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
It's funny. I I'd love to be, you know, remembered
for my music, but I think in terms of, like,
maybe if I could be remembered for one thing, it
would be this this box set that Tom Sharpling and
I put out of of Our like a best of
what we did on the Best Show for about ten years.
And Numero Group put a box set out of God.
(48:27):
It's probably like eight hours of material. We've got so
much in there. But uh so, I think in terms
of like a creative legacy, that's what That's what maybe
I'm most proud of just become Yeah yeah, I mean
I love the music and I'll you know, I'll do
it till death and it's my main thing. But but
in terms of like something that's just like one hundred
(48:48):
percent or whatever me in terms of like my creativity,
that's that's it. I think.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Do you have any favorite comedians?
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Oh? Yeah, but you know, I I love shows and
movies more than actual comedians, Like, like my favorite TV
show ever is Veepe Deep Yeah, oh yeah, And I
just love that like, I could watch I probably watched
every episode at least fifteen times. I just love it.
(49:19):
It's like soothing to me. So things like that. Tom
Sharply and I had. The first thing we bonded over
was Chris Elliott's program Get a Life. Okay, I didn't
know that. I remember him though, Yeah, yeah he had.
Oh he's so good. Yeah, all those people. And but
like comedians, I love Todd Barry, Sarah Silverman's, great Andy Kindler,
(49:47):
all kinds of people. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Nice, nice, Yeah, it's funny. I have a theory, and
I think a lot of people have this theory that
musicians want to be comedians and comedians want to be musicians,
and it's somehow you did them both.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Somehow, But it's funny. I well, it's odd. I was
talking to Matt Walsh, who plays Mike on Veep the
other day. We were talking and I told him I
came in comedy through the back door. Like I've never
had any aspirations to do comedy. I always loved it,
(50:20):
but I never saw myself doing it. And somehow I
met Tom Sharpling and it was two guys that don't
really love to be in the spotlight much so we're
able to like build this thing just on the phone.
So I basically I call into his show every I've
been doing it for today's our twenty fifth anniversary of
doing it. But so somehow that's how I got into
(50:45):
the comedy world, just by writing these funny calls with Tom,
And that's how I got in. Everything I ever did
in comedy kind of came from that right place at
the right time. Yeah, totally, totally. What do you attribute
that to?
Speaker 1 (50:59):
How are you the guy that's in the right place
at the right time. Is it just luck card you
feel like you're putting yourself out there to have stuff
happen or what do you.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
I'll tell you. And I don't talk about this a lot,
but I believe in all the law of attraction stuff,
and I think I think there are there are certain
rules that like that are just sort of in the
ephemera where I had such a hard time getting stuff
going between, like when Super Chunk went on hiatus in
like one and probably till like two thousand and eight
(51:30):
or something, because I was trying so hard, like I
was just like hammering, just trying to get breaks. And
when I stopped hammering, That's when everything came and I
haven't hammered hammered since.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
John Worster, that was a blast, right good guy, great story,
accomplished so much and literally one of the best rock
drummers around today. So big thanks to John for being
on the episode, and good luck and say travels on
(52:12):
all of the upcoming tours. We'll be back with more
episodes soon, but in the meantime, thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
From a studio twenty four.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
This has been the Figure eight podcast.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Because I'm running.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Down long, You're weird.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Because I'm running out long. I can't imagine its sport,
but I brought it out. Weird
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