August 3, 2025 • 49 mins
🔍 Episode Summary
In this episode, Damien Swaby sits down with the brilliant Lee Romaire, an Emmy-winning creative force behind some of the most iconic animatronic creations in entertainment. From his early fascination with Disney World and miniature train sets to designing immersive experiences for Disney Parks and major TV productions, Lee shares the origin of his creative passion and how he transformed it into a world-class career.
Listeners will discover:
Whether you're a fan of Disney, a creative professional, or just love origin stories that lead to artistic mastery, this episode is a must-listen.
🎧 Highlights
00:03 – Introduction and welcome
01:30 – Lee's early influences and love for artificial realism
03:15 – How taxidermy became a surprising creative gateway
05:50 – Journey from hobbyist to professional designer
12:40 – Lee’s work with Disney and his Emmy Award-winning TV contributions
17:10 – Philosophy behind immersive design
22:00 – Advice for aspiring creatives in entertainment design
Use Promo Code "FILMMAKINGSWABY" for all my deals or just click the link:
In this episode, Damien Swaby sits down with the brilliant Lee Romaire, an Emmy-winning creative force behind some of the most iconic animatronic creations in entertainment. From his early fascination with Disney World and miniature train sets to designing immersive experiences for Disney Parks and major TV productions, Lee shares the origin of his creative passion and how he transformed it into a world-class career.
Listeners will discover:
- The childhood spark that ignited Lee’s career in animatronics
- How growing up in Louisiana and dabbling in taxidermy influenced his artistry
- Behind-the-scenes stories from award-winning projects
- Insights on blending technology, imagination, and storytelling in theme parks and television
Whether you're a fan of Disney, a creative professional, or just love origin stories that lead to artistic mastery, this episode is a must-listen.
🎧 Highlights
00:03 – Introduction and welcome
01:30 – Lee's early influences and love for artificial realism
03:15 – How taxidermy became a surprising creative gateway
05:50 – Journey from hobbyist to professional designer
12:40 – Lee’s work with Disney and his Emmy Award-winning TV contributions
17:10 – Philosophy behind immersive design
22:00 – Advice for aspiring creatives in entertainment design
Use Promo Code "FILMMAKINGSWABY" for all my deals or just click the link:
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to IFH podcastnetwork
dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Lee, how are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
IM good, Damien, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm not too bad at all? Thanks, not too bad
at all. So I'm really happy that you're on the podcast,
especially considering how much of the work you've done I've
seen over the years.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Thank you for asking me. Lee.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Your work has touched everything from Disney parks that I
mentioned earlier, Emmy winning TV shows. But let's go back.
What was the moment or project that sparked your passion
for animetrics and creative design.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Well, when I was a kid, I was fortunate enough
to be taken to Disney World in Florida when I
was very young. Yeah, I was probably I think I
was six the first time I went. It was several
months after the Magic Kingdom opened in Florida. And I
(01:06):
was always fascinated with things that looked real, but weren't,
you know, sort of artificial, you know, like miniature train
sets or like, you know, the environments that you know,
the Disney parks have. And I was also very interested
in in animals and dinosaurs. And monsters and things like that.
(01:28):
So it kind of all of that just kind of
led to me being eventually in the in the career
I am now. I started when I was actually very young.
I'm from Louisiana, so I I actually uh started taxidermy
(01:49):
as a hobby as a very very young person, probably
eight years old. Someone who worked from my dad was
did taxidermy as a hobby and they showed me how to,
uh to mount a crawfish, and that was the first
thing I ever did. And he gave me some books
and I kind of taught myself how to do it
(02:09):
and did a lot of ducks and things like that.
I had a little business for people, so that that
kind of that kind of I guess uh brought my
eye towards realism and bringing things to life that that
that we're fake. So, you know, all of those things
(02:30):
together brought me to where I am.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Now, why do you think you were interested in things
that weren't real that appeared to be real.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I don't know, It's it's I've always just been fascinated
that even if it's just a rock surface that's been
created or uh, you know, like like the things we do,
you know, mechanical objects and they don't even have to
be I would say realistic. You know, a costume care
(03:00):
directers interest me, you know, because our puppets. You know.
I worked for Jim Henson the creature Shop and uh
you know those some of those things that are highly caricatured,
but they you know, it's amazing people who bring them
to life. And uh so it's I don't know, I
don't know why exactly I enjoy that, but it's something
(03:23):
they interest me.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
And what was it like working for the legendary Jim Henderson.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Well, Jim wasn't alive. I mean he he passed away. Yeah,
that's okay. He passed away for a quite a while ago.
But I started when I when I moved to Hollywood.
I one of the places I worked for was the
Jim Hinson Creature Shop and I did eventually actually work
(03:51):
for his son, Brian well, you know Jim Hinton creed
shops owned by the Hnson family. But I worked personally
for Brian on on something he directed, uh Stephen King's
Nightmare and Dreamscapes. He he directed a battle Ground the
Battleground episode with William Hurt, and he asked me to
(04:14):
he asked me to do the makeups and the soldiers
for that, and and you know he I asked him,
I said, I'll do it, but can I do it
through my company, which is a little company. I had
just started, Romere Studios. And he thought about it for
a minute and he's like yes, which was really interesting
that he didn't want to run through the creature shop.
(04:36):
He went ahead and trusted me to do it. So
that was a that was a big opportunity for me.
And it was very hard work, but we got it
done and it was it was really awesome to work
with him. He was he was really very knowledgeable in
filmmaking and made it very easy for such a quick
(04:58):
turnaround project. But you know the problem. The working at
Hanson's was really great. I got to meet amazing people.
A good friend of mine, Dave Barkley, I got to
meet who was he? I mean, his first job was
helping frank O's puppeteer with Yoda so and he was
also inside a job of the Hut. And you know,
(05:20):
he has given also me a lot of opportunities when
I first started as well building building puppets and animatronics
and you know, other great friends that I also met
through Jim Henson Creature Shop that I'm still friends with today.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Having that title working for that company on your CV,
how did it offend your career?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I think I think it. You know, it gives you
a level of credibility when you when I first started
working here, you know, you you have to when you
moved to Hollywood, you have to get that first job,
and you have to do a good job. And then
if you're you know, I guess if you have like
(06:04):
a modicum of talent and you are willing to show
up and work and work hard, I mean, you can
make it. Your reputation is decided by how well you
do the job and basically how well you deal with people.
I mean, you know, Hollywood is, or I would say
(06:24):
filmmaking is about, you know, people being in the right
place at the right time and doing their job. And
if you can do that and you have a smile
on your face, you will get rehired.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Excellent. And you were the first person outside of Disney
to sculpt a US president for them, Abraham Lincoln. How
did that opportunity come about and what did it mean
by you?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Well? That was also interesting that that was from a
friend of Phil Jackson who was at Jim Henson and
he'd moved on to Disney and they started their first
All of the Disney animatronic audio animatronic figures in all
the parks have before previously to this were either pneumatic,
(07:16):
which is air driven, or hydraulic, which is oil driven
in cylinders. And this was the first kind of foray
into electric. Disney decided that they wanted to the technology
was there for them to start building electric figures, so
they started experimenting with electric heads because it's a it's
(07:38):
a small package, you know, human head that you can
work on. And so we did several different kind of humans,
and they were asking me to come in and do
the sculptures and the paint and stuff like that. So
I did it through my my my little company. And
then then the opportunity they were going to redo Abraham
Lincoln or Disneyland, and it's at the Magic Kingdom, the
(08:05):
Hall of Presidents. It's all the different presidents from the
beginning from George Washington and Disneyland. It's Abraham Lincoln by himself.
He has his own show because he was the first
human audio animatronic that Walt Disney ever did he was, Yeah,
well he Walt actually was very involved in it. It
(08:26):
was one of his favorite things. And so when they
redid when they wanted to redo this, they needed to
resculpt the head. So I was lucky to be at
the right place at the right time, and they had
the ability to do it. They asked me to do it.
I was extremely nervous about it. It took a long
time to do it, but you know, we brought like
several innovations to that that that figure or the head
(08:52):
anyway I should say. You know, they just wanted me
to do the sculpted first, and then I convinced them
to let me do the painting in the hair and
all that. And so I did the complete look of
the skin and the and the face and the hair
along with a wig maker friend of mine. And you know,
those those figures. I don't know if you've you've been
(09:14):
to the parks, but you know, they they're very difficult
to maintain, and they have a great, uh, you know,
great staff of people. But they the way they did
them was kind of stuck back in the in the sixties.
They would like pin on, pin on the beards and
(09:35):
pin on the eyebrows and things like that and pin
and the wig, and it would always just be a
little different, you know, it wouldn't be consistent. So we
came up with, you know, a fully like punched beard.
The hair was individually put one by one into the skin.
In fact, leaving for Lincoln, we we punched the whole
(09:56):
beard into his face and then we shaved it off
just and left you know how Lincoln had his beard,
so you'd see Beard's double. And we worked a wig
in a way that the wig would always go on
exactly the same way each time, so it would be
a consistent look. And those were innovations plus a hyper
realistic you know, look Disney at the beginning the Magic
(10:21):
Kingdom and Disneyland and imagineering that was all based on
people moving from the Disney movie studio to build the
theme park. So it always had a cinematic feel at
the beginning. But you know, I think for the figures,
they kind of lost that somewhere along the way, and
I think, you know, we helped kind of bring that
back a little bit. So so that was like the
(10:43):
beginning of that project, and from that I got, you know,
opportunities to do a lot more stuff for them after that.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
How long did it take you to create and finish
making that project?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
It was a pretty quick turn The whole thing was
a pretty quick turnaround. It was nine months to build
the head out. I wasn't involved in the mechanical aspect
of it. My two friends weren't. But my sculpture I
think I took I think I took eight weeks to
do that. I did it over and over again until
it felt right and then we you know, we could
(11:22):
the paint and the hair and all that stuff. So
probably eight to ten weeks, I guess.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Okay. And aside from there, your studo is known for
making impossible seem possible. What's been one of your most
technically challenging projects you've taken on and how did you
overcome it?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
M interesting. Well, unfortunately, a lot of the things that
we do for the theme parts we can't really talk
or especially like anything IP related, can't really talk about.
I shouldn't say, we can't really say we did it.
We can we can to hint around at it. But
(12:01):
there was a project that involved in fact, it was
one of the first fully animate the first job that
we had that was where we actually built the entire
mechanical structure of a character. Uh. It was a little
lizard and it had to sit in someone's hand, so
you walk around with it, uh, and it you know,
(12:24):
it had to to look around and express and everything.
It was a cartoon character from one of the movies.
And that took about three and a half years to
figure out how to how to get all of those
little mechanics inside of that figure. You know, imagine something
sitting on the size of your hand hand and we
(12:46):
you know, we built the the whole thing. We we
It ended up being the first handheld a character that
Disney ever did, and also the smallest expressive head probably
ever made for them as well. So you know, that
was a very very very challenging project. We we built
(13:10):
all the hardware. We actually also did the animation on it,
and that was really tough, but we actually did it.
We we survived it. And it almost drained my bank
account completely, but what's you know. But but once it
was done, you know, the work really flowed in after that.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I'm glad to hear it. I'm really really glad to
hear it. So from Sashquatch. In letters from big Man
to Cody, the baby for front Cotion. How do you
adapt your creative process across such diverse genres and collaborators.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So the first one you discussed or you mentioned letter
is a big man That was a friend of mine
whose famous makeup artist recommended me for that job. And
it wasn't a high budget It was a low budget
indie film by a pretty well known indie filmmaker, Chris Munch,
(14:17):
and he wanted to do a realistic big Foot and
he wanted to show it wasn't a monster. He wanted
to show it in the bright light. It was, you know,
which is very unusual. Usually when you have something that's
sort of monster like, you kind of hide it in
the shadows. But his take was completely different. So you know,
(14:39):
I mean basically I for that we built it on.
The actor was actually perfect, Isaac Washington. He was perfect,
really big six foot I believe he was six foot
six and very muscular tool. Yeah, so you know, yeah,
we added a couple of inches to his height and
(15:00):
built the suit and it was a makeup and then
we did a couple of different things. Also, we did
some digital work on him to uh, just change his
eyes a little bit. It was the first time we'd
ever done that, and so you know that what the
process was pretty straightforward, just using him him naturally as
(15:27):
he was and making the making the suit to where
he can deliver his performance and make it real. Uh.
The green baby was very different. That was Frank Ocean.
Frank Ocean, we built that baby Cody, and this was
all his idea. You know. He wanted it to to
(15:51):
to be a baby in a window at his jewelry
store in Manhattan, and the baby was about baby and
it was going to we were gonna have little His
jewelry line has has butterflies in it, so the baby
is supposed to be reaching up and trying to grab
(16:13):
the butterflies. So we did a program. We programmed the
baby to kind of like you know, look up in
the look up in the air and like reach for butterflies,
and the butterflies would be digital screen behind the baby.
So we had we completed that the baby, and we
(16:33):
went through a whole process with him. He wanted the
baby to have braces on his teeth and he wanted
the baby to We went through a different and different colors.
What color the baby be? Would he be gold, black, silver?
We finally ended up being like a greenish color. So
it was like a discovery process with Frank Uh. And
then also he had in his in his luxury line,
(16:57):
he also has scarves, so the baby's uh little outfit
was made out of that material. But so we had
that ready to go and then he called us and said,
can you make this thing? Can I walk down the
red carpet with this thing? And the met gala and
we were like, well, yes we can. But we had
(17:18):
to completely rework the inside because the baby robot was
standing on We had it standing on a platform in
the window, and all the mechanics were underneath the baby.
So we had to very quickly redesign the baby's body
to put all the mechanics on the inside. And we
(17:40):
had a little button on his foot so that would
turn him on and off. And so you know, Frank
Will drove up to the red carp So we got it,
and we all got it all together, and Frank Uh
drove up to the red carpet and we got he
got out and then we had handed him the baby
and turned the baby on and then you know, he
did hit did this thing and it was really cool
(18:02):
because it kind of had a looping program to where
the baby would just look around and look at him
and then wave, and but he acted against the baby,
you know, kind of went back and forth. So it
looked very realistic like the baby was actually reacting to him,
and he was reacting to the baby, and the baby
would look at the crowd and wave and everybody thought,
you know it it was doing that. It was it
(18:23):
was interactive, but it really wasn't. It was just a
loop program. So a lot of fun, a lot of
fun stuff. Frank always we've done other stuff for Frank
and he always comes up with really cool stuff. He's
about to Actually he's I think he's editing his movie
right now. He's doing an independent film which we didn't
(18:45):
work for.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, So on this podcast, it's like everyone I speak
to if it was like creative collaborators and partnerships, I
mean the world to them. They were very, very important
in the industry. Are there any particular creative partnerships that
have deeply influenced you outside of the.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Industry, outside of the industry created partnerships. See, that's a
good question. I you know, I would stay. You know,
I'm one of the first when I went to college,
(19:27):
I majored in advertising and I worked for a company
called Diane Allen and Associates. It was my first job.
I was a runner part time during while I was
going to school and and it was an advertising agency
(19:48):
in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and I was able to have
you know, they allowed me to start writing ads and
doing some of the creative work. And you know, they
really taught me a lot in that situation. Like I
(20:10):
would you know, I would run errands and then also
they would have an ad and they would say, Okay,
come up with an idea for this. So that gave
me a lot of confidence to sort of be create,
you know, throw my creative ideas out and and and
that was pretty good at it. I would say. The
second second real influence. It's not a creative partnership, but
(20:34):
it was a more of a mentorship. I was with
Dick Smith, who Dick Smith, if you don't know who
that is, He's a a legendary makeup artist. He did
that makeup for Reagan in the in the Exorcist, he
did Marlon Brando's makeup and The Godfather, like many movies
like that from the seventies. And I met him when
(20:59):
I first, uh the first makeup trade show I went
to before I even started in the business. I met
him and uh he he uh. He had a course
that he taught and he you know, I was able
to enroll in that course and and I really worked
(21:21):
really hard with him. I I bugged him all the
time to learn how to improve my sculpture abilities on
you know, makeups. Uh he he would. I would send
him pictures and he'd comment and critique and then send
him back. And I mean this was you know, before
we really got into the internet. It was all by
mail and and we would go back and forth, and
(21:45):
you know, he was he was not really into the
internet at that point. And you know, he would be
very tough on me and very pretty much pretty ruthless
actually on some of my stuff. I remember one time
I did a zombie head and to show him in
I thought it. I thought it was really great, and
I sent him a picture and he said, you know,
(22:08):
this is He told me, He's like, this is literally
the worst zombie I've ever seen in my life. And
you know, it was so honest. It just shook you know,
it just shook me. And it was like I just
made me laugh I'm like, Wow, I can't believe he's
that honest, But you know, he was absolutely right. It
was terrible, but that, you know, forced me into really
(22:29):
being critical about what I was doing and really look
at it and and to really understand. You know, I mean,
a lot of teachers when they teach you, they'll just
pat you on the head and say, oh, that's great. Uh.
He was not like that at all. And that's why
I was able to dance so fast. I think because
because I was able to not only learn under the
(22:50):
best in the world, but also one of the most
honest people in the world and one of the best
teachers I've ever met in my life.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I'm so happy to hear that that always he has
made a really big difference for you, and it sounds
like something that you hold close to your heart. I'm
happy to hear that for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Oh yes, yeah, he made a huge difference. Yes, he's
a great person.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
And as far as I'm aware, your studio is known
for not just known for innovation, but for performance. How
important are puppeteers and superformers in bringing your creation to life?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Well, it's you know, it wouldn't come to life without them,
you know, well, we're talking specifically about puppets and superformers.
You know, another person who's really really taught me a
lot is Dave Barkley. Like I said, he's amazing puppeteer,
and he's also one of the few puppeteers who actually
(23:46):
build puppets and mechanisms. Like most puppeteers are just get
handed a puppet and they you know, they manipulate it,
or a superformer does not build their own suits, but
you know, they can do it all. So he's he
really knows how to make something move and become alive.
And I learned that, you know, just working with him
(24:07):
on different projects. And then he actually had a company
at the time, and he we we did a goose,
and we did a couple of different things and and
and we worked together on those things. I would do
that the the build and he would you know kind
of I guess, uh, tell us what he wanted. And
(24:31):
then there was a point, you know, when he was
asked to supervise, uh, the Cats and Dogs movie. He
had worked on the first one, Uh he was the
animatronic supervisor and that was the Jim Henson built all
the characters the Cats and Dogs, so the second one
(24:53):
came along and they asked him to be the supervisor
again for the animatronic puppets, and he asked me to
to do to build So that was really great. I
you know, again learned so much about, you know, how
to build a puppet and how to how to how
(25:17):
to make things uh move correctly, uh, you know, and
how to bring them to life. Just from that experience,
you know, I also got to design some of the
characters for that movie, which was really fun. And uh,
you know, from that also, you know, and from that
(25:38):
Hintson experience, I've met other superformers and people who I've
hired to you know, to yeah, to manipulate our puppets
and to to get in the suits that we make.
And you know, I when somebody calls me to do something,
I immediately say, you know, hey, I've got the perfect
person who could play this character. You know, they have
(26:01):
years of experience, and I build the whole character around
them if I can't.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Ah, so over rule. What is your favorite film that
you've worked on?
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
God, there's a few to choose, I.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Know, uh, well, what is the favorite favorite movie I
work on? I don't know, like you know, for me,
it's like the I I enjoy the background bit, like
not so much the film itself. The film is never
like really important to me. It's it's about the work.
(26:41):
In other words, you know, yes, it's really great to
work on a movie like The Godfather, but that like
comes along like once in a lifetime. So most of
the movies you end up working on aren't that great,
you know, and you just all you hold, you know,
you hold in your your heart and your mind is
like what we what we did, the really work we
(27:02):
did behind the scenes on it that a lot of
it doesn't even show up in the film. So but
I would have to say, like the as far as
film projects go, I mean, my favorite project, I guess
was a Battlefield for Stephen King, which Briannson directed. When
we got to build the soldiers, that was really cool
(27:22):
because that's one of those projects that everything worked, It
all looked good, it all worked that it won an
Emmy for Best Visual Effects. Uh, it was just it
was a really good piece. If you ever get a
chance to see it, I recommend it. It's Stephen King's
Nightmares and Dreamscapes and the episode or the part of
(27:46):
the what we worked on it called Battleground Kay and
William William Hurt was William Hurt started it.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Okay, brillant and that's a TV mini series, am I right? Yes, excellent.
I'll definitely be checking that out and I'll put a
link to it in the show notes for everyone else
to watch as well. But two of your projects I've
seen that I really really enjoyed very different films for
very different reasons, and as far as I'm aware, you
have different titles. So in War of the World you
(28:15):
worked on special effects, and in White Chicks you were
a part of the art department, can you That's about
your roles and duties on both of those films and
how they different.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, so White Chicks was that's when I before I
started my own company, that I was working for a
company called Captive Audience and Greg Cannon was sort of
the owner leader of that company along with someone else.
And he he's he's another famous award winning at Academy
(28:56):
Award winning makeup artists. He did the the Dracula makeup
on Gary Oldman. He also did uh Missus Doubtfire on
Robin Williams. So he did these two makeups on David
Walliams and and sewn and I got to I got
(29:18):
to sculpt there's a beginning scene where they were in
disguise again and to the Bodega Brothers and I did
one of the I did one of the Bodega Brothers.
I think I did the one on mar On Marlin.
And I also did the body suits the body parts
for the White Chicks. So so those were two sculpting
(29:42):
jobs that I did for that movie. So yeah, and
that was that. That was really cool. I really enjoyed that.
The more of the world I made some I did
some dead cows for that, and again that was in
my own that was that was from my company. And yeah,
(30:05):
it's not you know, we end up doing a lot
of dead animals, not very exciting, but it's something that
I'm good at. People need them, so we do them. Yeah,
but I but what's interesting about that is I did
both of those myself in ten days. That was when
I was, you know, yeah, younger, and I mean they
(30:26):
were really big, big hows and I built the whole thing,
built both of them in ten days. That was when
I was, you know, trying to prove myself and I
would go without sleeper day at the time, so but
they ended up in the movie and they you know,
they worked really well.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
And obviously you worked on those two brilliant studio films.
Now you have a seven thousand square foot studio and
lead a team of highly specialized experts. What's your approach
to leadership and creative culture?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
For me, it's always been I try to hire the
best people and then I let them do their job.
I you know, at the beginning, it was, you know,
I really wanted to be hands on for everything, but
I realized that if I wanted to grow, that I
needed to trust other people and just let them do
(31:23):
what they're good at. And once I was able to
let go and do that, you know, we immediately were
able to do a lot more and do a much
better job. You know, I know so many people who
are just really really brilliant and talented, but they cannot
they cannot delegate, and they can't let other people do
(31:47):
work for them without being micromanagers, and it just never works. So,
you know, I always try to hire people that are
better than me, and I let them do their job,
and we always end up turning out a great product.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Do you think there are free reasons in particular why
people struggle to delegate, because it's something that often comes up.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I think that, you know, it's it's letting, letting go
of control. Maybe, you know, we always want to control
our what we do. Yeah, and you know, I'm maybe
it's a bit of arrogance. I don't know that I
think that I can do it better than anyone else,
And it's not always true. I mean, you know, it's
(32:31):
it's there's a lot of people who out there who
can and do a great job. And another another another
thing I I, you know, to get up the subject
a little bit. Another thing I do here is like
I don't I make sure that the people are hire
are good people and good good with other people. There's
(32:52):
a lot of artists out there that are amazing, but
they're not sociable, they're not not team players. They are
are disruptors. And I'd rather hire somebody who's is a
little bit less talented, but a lot a lot easier
to work with and a lot you know, and a
(33:15):
good person than somebody who's amazing and just a real
nightmare to work with.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
So are we saying you would go for a seven
out of ten rather than a nine out of ten.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Well maybe an eight out of ten. Oh that yeah, yeah,
so yes I would because you know, in the end,
this is commercial art what we're what we're doing, and
it has to get done, and if somebody gets in
the way of it being done, no one. Yeah, it
(33:50):
just doesn't work. So I just can't. I don't have
time for that, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Well, yeah, completely understandable. Have you had a situation in
particular you can tell us about when you hired someone
and they just didn't quite fit in what your vision was.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
I mean I've hired people that have One guy in
particularly is a great sculptor, but you know, he decided,
you know too, that he would first on the first
day he took the a two hour launch and you know,
the next day, you know, three hours, and you know,
(34:29):
and then he didn't, you know, trying to I guess,
trying to position himself. I guess, I don't know, or
show I don't know what he was trying to show me.
But you know, in the end that we got the
work done and it looked great. But I never hired
him again after that because I can't. It's just it
doesn't work for me, you know, I mean, there are
(34:52):
people who Yeah, there are people who I've worked with
in the past that are great and they deliver, but
it's just the process is so difficult with the attitude
and the and the temperament that I just they're just
other people I can hire, you know, that are that
(35:12):
are great to work with, So why would I work
with them? You know? So so, yes, I've had quite
quite a few INSS just like that that I just
But now I can weed it out pretty quickly, you know,
I can see it right from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
So if someone takes a two hour break or a
free hour break, when you discuss that with them, what
in their head do they feel it's justifiable for doing that?
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Oh? You know, they will, you know. It's it's a
kind of I guess, a Prima Donna type thing. Oh yeah,
I'm just good so I can do that. Uh, I'm not.
I'm not very confrontational. I'm more like, okay, that's what
you did. You're you know, strike one in my mind,
(35:59):
you know, and then it's okay, strike too, and then
strike through. Yvont So you know, I don't really, I don't.
I'm not the kind of person. I'm not a yeller.
I don't really raise my voice. I don't. I'm very
easy going, but you know, I keep an eye. I
watch what you do. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Gotcha, everyone listening, Everyone be aware if you're gonna work
with lead, that's the situation. And he's right. So tell
us a bit more about your seven thousand square foot studio.
When did you create it and what was the motivation
to create such an impressive studio.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Well, it's it's actually it grows in shrinks. I mean,
we have like a baseline that we have right now.
We're kind of we're kind of at the small side.
You know, we've we've you know, expanded up to twelve
and you know that's still not very very big, but
(36:57):
it's enough for what we need. We have, Uh, we
have a full time engineering department, which is you know,
it's it's sort of the opposite of the artists, you know,
they because we do so much theme park work, we
had to have all of our stuff is contracted to
(37:19):
be uh reliable over a twenty year lifespan. So the
stuff we make right now has to be really well engineered.
So you know, it takes sometimes months and months and
months to build these things in the computer and a
(37:40):
lot of collaboration. So we have that and we have
a full mechanical shop. Even though we do a lot
of we we outsource a lot of of our stuff,
a lot of our parts that we assemble, and then
we we have a god how many printers through seventeen
(38:04):
three D printers that we use for printing work. And
you know, and you know, we have a lot of
computer work going on here, a lot of computer stations
that people design, and you know, we have a small
mold shop. We you know, used to do a lot
of molds by hand. You know, when we do a sculpture,
(38:27):
you have to mold it, cast it. Yeah, but now
now we build everything. We do a lot of sculpture
in the computer, and then we create the molds in
the computer, so we print them out and then we
can make our creature skins or creature faces or hands
or whatever like that. So the computer has really changed
(38:49):
the business in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
So if you're doing more and more of your design
work through the computer, and it's become more prominent. See
the future of animatronics and practical effects in film and
theme parks.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Well, I think you know, for me, I I sort
of slowly move towards the theme park world because it
was real and it's you touch it. You know, movies
are movies are you know they're they the computer images
(39:30):
have really really taken over that that world, and I
think that's only going to go further. However, you know,
if you have to sit on something and you have
to see something in front of your face, it's it's
pretty difficult to have just a screen. It doesn't have
the same impact as as a like you you know,
(39:52):
if you go through a Walt Disney, you know, prior
to the Caribbean, for example, you know you can ride
on that boat ride and the water is real and
the things you see are real, or I should say
the simblies of a real and you always see something
a little different each time you go. So to me,
(40:14):
that's that's more interesting. It's something you know, you can
feel in touch or at least you know, I feel
like it's it's it's in a real space. So I
think I think that that world is not so in
danger of being completely replaced by computers. As as the
(40:38):
movie business, we're now you know, we're we're looking at
ai uh and the companies are starting to see if
they can, you know, can we create this entire movie
through AI or at least, you know, visualize most of it.
So that's gonna If you don't start thinking about that technology,
(40:59):
I think you're you're gonna be in trouble. You really
do need to at least understand it and understand how
you can use it to your benefit or you know.
I mean, right now, I'm I'm doing some things where
I'm like using it for pre visualizations. And it's what's
(41:21):
great about it. It's it's not gonna it's not gonna
deliver a final script or a final at this point anyway.
But it does it does, uh, you know, it helps
you visualize, It helps you think a little bit, you know,
and if you use it just as something extra, I think.
(41:42):
I think it's totally legitimate and great, you know.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
And how has it affected your team and yourself so far?
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Oh? I'm you know, I I don't look at it
as something to be worried about it. I look at
this something to understand and learn about, you know, right, yeah, yeah,
I mean the things we do are pretty complicated. It
really require human interaction and touch and it's there, you know.
(42:12):
It's not something you can trust the computer just to
spin out. So yeah, so you know, yes, we could
definitely use it as it's just another tool in the toolbox.
It's not it's not anything that i'm I'm I'm worried about.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
And what kind of projects or genres are you excited
to explore because you've worked on so many different types
of films and and genres are different directors produces completely
different types of actors as well.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
We so like we've really been involved in a lot
of interactive characters, robotic characters, Like we just recently did
a lot of work for this brand new big park
that opened up in Orlando, and you know, we created
several freeing uh characters that you know, interact and are puppeteered.
(43:07):
You know, these are four legged, uh four legged characters
that walk around and and they can they're fully expressive.
Another thing we we also we just wanted a feel
award for we we uh worked on you know, we
we did some finished work on on these little I
don't know if you've seen the little box droids, the
(43:28):
little tiny robots that walk around uh in Disneyland. H Yeah,
so we we we had a part of that and uh,
those are really fun and neat, and so I'm just
using that as an example of things that I would
like to work on in the future, more of that
kind of free roaming, robotic character that interacts with people.
(43:57):
I'm also uh starting to look at actually creating our
own entertainment sort of uh live live experience, which I
don't I haven't fully formed it yet, but live experiences, uh,
that will utilize our talent. So that's a whole nother
(44:19):
That's a whole nother show and a whole other topic.
But I really think, I do really think like live
experiences is where we're headed. Uh, you know, it just
seems like people were very interested in that at the moment.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
And professionally, are there any dream collaborators still on your
list that you wish to work with?
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Not really, I mean, I that's a good question. I mean,
there are people that I really admire in that that business.
But you know, no, I mean it's just you know,
I I would like to do something else with Frank
if he has another project, you know, is really interesting,
(45:00):
Frank Ocean. And you know, if if you know, to me,
it's like these these opportunities start up, just pop up
and and and you know, I'm like, wow, that's fun.
That's cool. So yeah, it's I'm not I'm not somebody
who uh we just actually we did some work too
(45:23):
with Gimo del Toro. He's really really amazing, So you know,
I I is there anybody who I would like say, wow,
I'd love to work with him? That really I just
it pops up and and I'm like, wow, it's really
I'm really grateful to be able to, uh, to collaborate
with these these uh, these such intentive and amazing uh people.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
And for filmmakers and creatives listening who want to innovate
visually but don't know where to begin, what advice would
you give to them?
Speaker 1 (45:58):
I think you have to you know that you have
to get into a mindset of learning on your own.
I know so many who contact and say what school
should I go to? Which things should I do? But
there's so much information out there you can learn on
(46:21):
your own. How to you know, learn your art just
by literally working after hours if you have if you
have a job, you have to do your job and
then you have to go home and you have to
work on your art work. You know. I remember when
I was first starting to sculpt, makeups, and I was
(46:46):
working during the day, I was actually sculpting Bondygros props
in New Orleans, and at night I would come home
and I would work on my makeup sculptures. And I
remember one day I literally worked on one sculpture for
eighteen hours straight and yeah, yeah, yeah, I only got
(47:07):
to go to the bathroom and you know, but that's like,
but that was I was obsessed, you know, to work
on that and get it. And that's kind of the
mindset you have to have. You have to be obsessed
with what you're doing. You have to. You can't wait
for somebody else to to help you or show you.
You have to you know, you have to sort of
(47:28):
have a do it yourself mentality at first and learn
and push yourself. And of course my second, my second
bit of advice is find the person that you the
best person you can, who's the best person, and try
to talk to them and try to see if they will,
you know, give you tips and advice and help, and
(47:53):
you know, don't don't go with a mediocre person. Learn
from the best you know.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
If you can't so, and your passion is obvious and
commitment is obvious too. But if you want the artists
that you are today, What do you think you'd be
doing professionally.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Probably like a Walmart greader something like that. I don't.
I don't. I have no idea. That's a good question.
M hmm. I don't know. Okay, I don't know. I
mean I just kind of like, you know, I always
think about how lucky I am to be doing this,
and I'm like, well, what would I you know, I
wasn't doing this, I'd be a bomb. I don't. I
don't know, you know, this is kind of this was
(48:36):
kind of what I was meant to do.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Yes, yes, it certainly was. Where can audiences find your
latest work?
Speaker 1 (48:46):
You can go to Epic Universe in Orlando and steal
a lot of things that we've done. It's a it's
a brand new theme park and latest world work we did.
There's a pot smoking Koala on the house party. Uh,
(49:08):
the new movie that just came out Okay, yeah, like
last couple of years. You can see that that's something
that we did, and and also some work on the
upcoming Frankenstein.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Yiamo del Toro, Lee, thanks so much for coming on
the podcast. Really appreciate you taking it time to talk
to me, and I hope to speak to you soon.
You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to IFH podcastnetwork
dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Lee, how are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
IM good, Damien, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm not too bad at all? Thanks, not too bad
at all. So I'm really happy that you're on the podcast,
especially considering how much of the work you've done I've
seen over the years.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Thank you for asking me. Lee.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Your work has touched everything from Disney parks that I
mentioned earlier, Emmy winning TV shows. But let's go back.
What was the moment or project that sparked your passion
for animetrics and creative design.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Well, when I was a kid, I was fortunate enough
to be taken to Disney World in Florida when I
was very young. Yeah, I was probably I think I
was six the first time I went. It was several
months after the Magic Kingdom opened in Florida. And I
(01:06):
was always fascinated with things that looked real, but weren't,
you know, sort of artificial, you know, like miniature train
sets or like, you know, the environments that you know,
the Disney parks have. And I was also very interested
in in animals and dinosaurs. And monsters and things like that.
(01:28):
So it kind of all of that just kind of
led to me being eventually in the in the career
I am now. I started when I was actually very young.
I'm from Louisiana, so I I actually uh started taxidermy
(01:49):
as a hobby as a very very young person, probably
eight years old. Someone who worked from my dad was
did taxidermy as a hobby and they showed me how to,
uh to mount a crawfish, and that was the first
thing I ever did. And he gave me some books
and I kind of taught myself how to do it
(02:09):
and did a lot of ducks and things like that.
I had a little business for people, so that that
kind of that kind of I guess uh brought my
eye towards realism and bringing things to life that that
that we're fake. So, you know, all of those things
(02:30):
together brought me to where I am.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Now, why do you think you were interested in things
that weren't real that appeared to be real.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I don't know, It's it's I've always just been fascinated
that even if it's just a rock surface that's been
created or uh, you know, like like the things we do,
you know, mechanical objects and they don't even have to
be I would say realistic. You know, a costume care
(03:00):
directers interest me, you know, because our puppets. You know.
I worked for Jim Henson the creature Shop and uh
you know those some of those things that are highly caricatured,
but they you know, it's amazing people who bring them
to life. And uh so it's I don't know, I
don't know why exactly I enjoy that, but it's something
(03:23):
they interest me.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
And what was it like working for the legendary Jim Henderson.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Well, Jim wasn't alive. I mean he he passed away. Yeah,
that's okay. He passed away for a quite a while ago.
But I started when I when I moved to Hollywood.
I one of the places I worked for was the
Jim Hinson Creature Shop and I did eventually actually work
(03:51):
for his son, Brian well, you know Jim Hinton creed
shops owned by the Hnson family. But I worked personally
for Brian on on something he directed, uh Stephen King's
Nightmare and Dreamscapes. He he directed a battle Ground the
Battleground episode with William Hurt, and he asked me to
(04:14):
he asked me to do the makeups and the soldiers
for that, and and you know he I asked him,
I said, I'll do it, but can I do it
through my company, which is a little company. I had
just started, Romere Studios. And he thought about it for
a minute and he's like yes, which was really interesting
that he didn't want to run through the creature shop.
(04:36):
He went ahead and trusted me to do it. So
that was a that was a big opportunity for me.
And it was very hard work, but we got it
done and it was it was really awesome to work
with him. He was he was really very knowledgeable in
filmmaking and made it very easy for such a quick
(04:58):
turnaround project. But you know the problem. The working at
Hanson's was really great. I got to meet amazing people.
A good friend of mine, Dave Barkley, I got to
meet who was he? I mean, his first job was
helping frank O's puppeteer with Yoda so and he was
also inside a job of the Hut. And you know,
(05:20):
he has given also me a lot of opportunities when
I first started as well building building puppets and animatronics
and you know, other great friends that I also met
through Jim Henson Creature Shop that I'm still friends with today.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Having that title working for that company on your CV,
how did it offend your career?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I think I think it. You know, it gives you
a level of credibility when you when I first started
working here, you know, you you have to when you
moved to Hollywood, you have to get that first job,
and you have to do a good job. And then
if you're you know, I guess if you have like
(06:04):
a modicum of talent and you are willing to show
up and work and work hard, I mean, you can
make it. Your reputation is decided by how well you
do the job and basically how well you deal with people.
I mean, you know, Hollywood is, or I would say
(06:24):
filmmaking is about, you know, people being in the right
place at the right time and doing their job. And
if you can do that and you have a smile
on your face, you will get rehired.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Excellent. And you were the first person outside of Disney
to sculpt a US president for them, Abraham Lincoln. How
did that opportunity come about and what did it mean
by you?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Well? That was also interesting that that was from a
friend of Phil Jackson who was at Jim Henson and
he'd moved on to Disney and they started their first
All of the Disney animatronic audio animatronic figures in all
the parks have before previously to this were either pneumatic,
(07:16):
which is air driven, or hydraulic, which is oil driven
in cylinders. And this was the first kind of foray
into electric. Disney decided that they wanted to the technology
was there for them to start building electric figures, so
they started experimenting with electric heads because it's a it's
(07:38):
a small package, you know, human head that you can
work on. And so we did several different kind of humans,
and they were asking me to come in and do
the sculptures and the paint and stuff like that. So
I did it through my my my little company. And
then then the opportunity they were going to redo Abraham
Lincoln or Disneyland, and it's at the Magic Kingdom, the
(08:05):
Hall of Presidents. It's all the different presidents from the
beginning from George Washington and Disneyland. It's Abraham Lincoln by himself.
He has his own show because he was the first
human audio animatronic that Walt Disney ever did he was, Yeah,
well he Walt actually was very involved in it. It
(08:26):
was one of his favorite things. And so when they
redid when they wanted to redo this, they needed to
resculpt the head. So I was lucky to be at
the right place at the right time, and they had
the ability to do it. They asked me to do it.
I was extremely nervous about it. It took a long
time to do it, but you know, we brought like
several innovations to that that that figure or the head
(08:52):
anyway I should say. You know, they just wanted me
to do the sculpted first, and then I convinced them
to let me do the painting in the hair and
all that. And so I did the complete look of
the skin and the and the face and the hair
along with a wig maker friend of mine. And you know,
those those figures. I don't know if you've you've been
(09:14):
to the parks, but you know, they they're very difficult
to maintain, and they have a great, uh, you know,
great staff of people. But they the way they did
them was kind of stuck back in the in the sixties.
They would like pin on, pin on the beards and
(09:35):
pin on the eyebrows and things like that and pin
and the wig, and it would always just be a
little different, you know, it wouldn't be consistent. So we
came up with, you know, a fully like punched beard.
The hair was individually put one by one into the skin.
In fact, leaving for Lincoln, we we punched the whole
(09:56):
beard into his face and then we shaved it off
just and left you know how Lincoln had his beard,
so you'd see Beard's double. And we worked a wig
in a way that the wig would always go on
exactly the same way each time, so it would be
a consistent look. And those were innovations plus a hyper
realistic you know, look Disney at the beginning the Magic
(10:21):
Kingdom and Disneyland and imagineering that was all based on
people moving from the Disney movie studio to build the
theme park. So it always had a cinematic feel at
the beginning. But you know, I think for the figures,
they kind of lost that somewhere along the way, and
I think, you know, we helped kind of bring that
back a little bit. So so that was like the
(10:43):
beginning of that project, and from that I got, you know,
opportunities to do a lot more stuff for them after that.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
How long did it take you to create and finish
making that project?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
It was a pretty quick turn The whole thing was
a pretty quick turnaround. It was nine months to build
the head out. I wasn't involved in the mechanical aspect
of it. My two friends weren't. But my sculpture I
think I took I think I took eight weeks to
do that. I did it over and over again until
it felt right and then we you know, we could
(11:22):
the paint and the hair and all that stuff. So
probably eight to ten weeks, I guess.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Okay. And aside from there, your studo is known for
making impossible seem possible. What's been one of your most
technically challenging projects you've taken on and how did you
overcome it?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
M interesting. Well, unfortunately, a lot of the things that
we do for the theme parts we can't really talk
or especially like anything IP related, can't really talk about.
I shouldn't say, we can't really say we did it.
We can we can to hint around at it. But
(12:01):
there was a project that involved in fact, it was
one of the first fully animate the first job that
we had that was where we actually built the entire
mechanical structure of a character. Uh. It was a little
lizard and it had to sit in someone's hand, so
you walk around with it, uh, and it you know,
(12:24):
it had to to look around and express and everything.
It was a cartoon character from one of the movies.
And that took about three and a half years to
figure out how to how to get all of those
little mechanics inside of that figure. You know, imagine something
sitting on the size of your hand hand and we
(12:46):
you know, we built the the whole thing. We we
It ended up being the first handheld a character that
Disney ever did, and also the smallest expressive head probably
ever made for them as well. So you know, that
was a very very very challenging project. We we built
(13:10):
all the hardware. We actually also did the animation on it,
and that was really tough, but we actually did it.
We we survived it. And it almost drained my bank
account completely, but what's you know. But but once it
was done, you know, the work really flowed in after that.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I'm glad to hear it. I'm really really glad to
hear it. So from Sashquatch. In letters from big Man
to Cody, the baby for front Cotion. How do you
adapt your creative process across such diverse genres and collaborators.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So the first one you discussed or you mentioned letter
is a big man That was a friend of mine
whose famous makeup artist recommended me for that job. And
it wasn't a high budget It was a low budget
indie film by a pretty well known indie filmmaker, Chris Munch,
(14:17):
and he wanted to do a realistic big Foot and
he wanted to show it wasn't a monster. He wanted
to show it in the bright light. It was, you know,
which is very unusual. Usually when you have something that's
sort of monster like, you kind of hide it in
the shadows. But his take was completely different. So you know,
(14:39):
I mean basically I for that we built it on.
The actor was actually perfect, Isaac Washington. He was perfect,
really big six foot I believe he was six foot
six and very muscular tool. Yeah, so you know, yeah,
we added a couple of inches to his height and
(15:00):
built the suit and it was a makeup and then
we did a couple of different things. Also, we did
some digital work on him to uh, just change his
eyes a little bit. It was the first time we'd
ever done that, and so you know that what the
process was pretty straightforward, just using him him naturally as
(15:27):
he was and making the making the suit to where
he can deliver his performance and make it real. Uh.
The green baby was very different. That was Frank Ocean.
Frank Ocean, we built that baby Cody, and this was
all his idea. You know. He wanted it to to
(15:51):
to be a baby in a window at his jewelry
store in Manhattan, and the baby was about baby and
it was going to we were gonna have little His
jewelry line has has butterflies in it, so the baby
is supposed to be reaching up and trying to grab
(16:13):
the butterflies. So we did a program. We programmed the
baby to kind of like you know, look up in
the look up in the air and like reach for butterflies,
and the butterflies would be digital screen behind the baby.
So we had we completed that the baby, and we
(16:33):
went through a whole process with him. He wanted the
baby to have braces on his teeth and he wanted
the baby to We went through a different and different colors.
What color the baby be? Would he be gold, black, silver?
We finally ended up being like a greenish color. So
it was like a discovery process with Frank Uh. And
then also he had in his in his luxury line,
(16:57):
he also has scarves, so the baby's uh little outfit
was made out of that material. But so we had
that ready to go and then he called us and said,
can you make this thing? Can I walk down the
red carpet with this thing? And the met gala and
we were like, well, yes we can. But we had
(17:18):
to completely rework the inside because the baby robot was
standing on We had it standing on a platform in
the window, and all the mechanics were underneath the baby.
So we had to very quickly redesign the baby's body
to put all the mechanics on the inside. And we
(17:40):
had a little button on his foot so that would
turn him on and off. And so you know, Frank
Will drove up to the red carp So we got it,
and we all got it all together, and Frank Uh
drove up to the red carpet and we got he
got out and then we had handed him the baby
and turned the baby on and then you know, he
did hit did this thing and it was really cool
(18:02):
because it kind of had a looping program to where
the baby would just look around and look at him
and then wave, and but he acted against the baby,
you know, kind of went back and forth. So it
looked very realistic like the baby was actually reacting to him,
and he was reacting to the baby, and the baby
would look at the crowd and wave and everybody thought,
you know it it was doing that. It was it
(18:23):
was interactive, but it really wasn't. It was just a
loop program. So a lot of fun, a lot of
fun stuff. Frank always we've done other stuff for Frank
and he always comes up with really cool stuff. He's
about to Actually he's I think he's editing his movie
right now. He's doing an independent film which we didn't
(18:45):
work for.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, So on this podcast, it's like everyone I speak
to if it was like creative collaborators and partnerships, I
mean the world to them. They were very, very important
in the industry. Are there any particular creative partnerships that
have deeply influenced you outside of the.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Industry, outside of the industry created partnerships. See, that's a
good question. I you know, I would stay. You know,
I'm one of the first when I went to college,
(19:27):
I majored in advertising and I worked for a company
called Diane Allen and Associates. It was my first job.
I was a runner part time during while I was
going to school and and it was an advertising agency
(19:48):
in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and I was able to have
you know, they allowed me to start writing ads and
doing some of the creative work. And you know, they
really taught me a lot in that situation. Like I
(20:10):
would you know, I would run errands and then also
they would have an ad and they would say, Okay,
come up with an idea for this. So that gave
me a lot of confidence to sort of be create,
you know, throw my creative ideas out and and and
that was pretty good at it. I would say. The
second second real influence. It's not a creative partnership, but
(20:34):
it was a more of a mentorship. I was with
Dick Smith, who Dick Smith, if you don't know who
that is, He's a a legendary makeup artist. He did
that makeup for Reagan in the in the Exorcist, he
did Marlon Brando's makeup and The Godfather, like many movies
like that from the seventies. And I met him when
(20:59):
I first, uh the first makeup trade show I went
to before I even started in the business. I met
him and uh he he uh. He had a course
that he taught and he you know, I was able
to enroll in that course and and I really worked
(21:21):
really hard with him. I I bugged him all the
time to learn how to improve my sculpture abilities on
you know, makeups. Uh he he would. I would send
him pictures and he'd comment and critique and then send
him back. And I mean this was you know, before
we really got into the internet. It was all by
mail and and we would go back and forth, and
(21:45):
you know, he was he was not really into the
internet at that point. And you know, he would be
very tough on me and very pretty much pretty ruthless
actually on some of my stuff. I remember one time
I did a zombie head and to show him in
I thought it. I thought it was really great, and
I sent him a picture and he said, you know,
(22:08):
this is He told me, He's like, this is literally
the worst zombie I've ever seen in my life. And
you know, it was so honest. It just shook you know,
it just shook me. And it was like I just
made me laugh I'm like, Wow, I can't believe he's
that honest, But you know, he was absolutely right. It
was terrible, but that, you know, forced me into really
(22:29):
being critical about what I was doing and really look
at it and and to really understand. You know, I mean,
a lot of teachers when they teach you, they'll just
pat you on the head and say, oh, that's great. Uh.
He was not like that at all. And that's why
I was able to dance so fast. I think because
because I was able to not only learn under the
(22:50):
best in the world, but also one of the most
honest people in the world and one of the best
teachers I've ever met in my life.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I'm so happy to hear that that always he has
made a really big difference for you, and it sounds
like something that you hold close to your heart. I'm
happy to hear that for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Oh yes, yeah, he made a huge difference. Yes, he's
a great person.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
And as far as I'm aware, your studio is known
for not just known for innovation, but for performance. How
important are puppeteers and superformers in bringing your creation to life?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Well, it's you know, it wouldn't come to life without them,
you know, well, we're talking specifically about puppets and superformers.
You know, another person who's really really taught me a
lot is Dave Barkley. Like I said, he's amazing puppeteer,
and he's also one of the few puppeteers who actually
(23:46):
build puppets and mechanisms. Like most puppeteers are just get
handed a puppet and they you know, they manipulate it,
or a superformer does not build their own suits, but
you know, they can do it all. So he's he
really knows how to make something move and become alive.
And I learned that, you know, just working with him
(24:07):
on different projects. And then he actually had a company
at the time, and he we we did a goose,
and we did a couple of different things and and
and we worked together on those things. I would do
that the the build and he would you know kind
of I guess, uh, tell us what he wanted. And
(24:31):
then there was a point, you know, when he was
asked to supervise, uh, the Cats and Dogs movie. He
had worked on the first one, Uh he was the
animatronic supervisor and that was the Jim Henson built all
the characters the Cats and Dogs, so the second one
(24:53):
came along and they asked him to be the supervisor
again for the animatronic puppets, and he asked me to
to do to build So that was really great. I
you know, again learned so much about, you know, how
to build a puppet and how to how to how
(25:17):
to make things uh move correctly, uh, you know, and
how to bring them to life. Just from that experience,
you know, I also got to design some of the
characters for that movie, which was really fun. And uh,
you know, from that also, you know, and from that
(25:38):
Hintson experience, I've met other superformers and people who I've
hired to you know, to yeah, to manipulate our puppets
and to to get in the suits that we make.
And you know, I when somebody calls me to do something,
I immediately say, you know, hey, I've got the perfect
person who could play this character. You know, they have
(26:01):
years of experience, and I build the whole character around
them if I can't.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Ah, so over rule. What is your favorite film that
you've worked on?
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
God, there's a few to choose, I.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Know, uh, well, what is the favorite favorite movie I
work on? I don't know, like you know, for me,
it's like the I I enjoy the background bit, like
not so much the film itself. The film is never
like really important to me. It's it's about the work.
(26:41):
In other words, you know, yes, it's really great to
work on a movie like The Godfather, but that like
comes along like once in a lifetime. So most of
the movies you end up working on aren't that great,
you know, and you just all you hold, you know,
you hold in your your heart and your mind is
like what we what we did, the really work we
(27:02):
did behind the scenes on it that a lot of
it doesn't even show up in the film. So but
I would have to say, like the as far as
film projects go, I mean, my favorite project, I guess
was a Battlefield for Stephen King, which Briannson directed. When
we got to build the soldiers, that was really cool
(27:22):
because that's one of those projects that everything worked, It
all looked good, it all worked that it won an
Emmy for Best Visual Effects. Uh, it was just it
was a really good piece. If you ever get a
chance to see it, I recommend it. It's Stephen King's
Nightmares and Dreamscapes and the episode or the part of
(27:46):
the what we worked on it called Battleground Kay and
William William Hurt was William Hurt started it.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Okay, brillant and that's a TV mini series, am I right? Yes, excellent.
I'll definitely be checking that out and I'll put a
link to it in the show notes for everyone else
to watch as well. But two of your projects I've
seen that I really really enjoyed very different films for
very different reasons, and as far as I'm aware, you
have different titles. So in War of the World you
(28:15):
worked on special effects, and in White Chicks you were
a part of the art department, can you That's about
your roles and duties on both of those films and
how they different.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, so White Chicks was that's when I before I
started my own company, that I was working for a
company called Captive Audience and Greg Cannon was sort of
the owner leader of that company along with someone else.
And he he's he's another famous award winning at Academy
(28:56):
Award winning makeup artists. He did the the Dracula makeup
on Gary Oldman. He also did uh Missus Doubtfire on
Robin Williams. So he did these two makeups on David
Walliams and and sewn and I got to I got
(29:18):
to sculpt there's a beginning scene where they were in
disguise again and to the Bodega Brothers and I did
one of the I did one of the Bodega Brothers.
I think I did the one on mar On Marlin.
And I also did the body suits the body parts
for the White Chicks. So so those were two sculpting
(29:42):
jobs that I did for that movie. So yeah, and
that was that. That was really cool. I really enjoyed that.
The more of the world I made some I did
some dead cows for that, and again that was in
my own that was that was from my company. And yeah,
(30:05):
it's not you know, we end up doing a lot
of dead animals, not very exciting, but it's something that
I'm good at. People need them, so we do them. Yeah,
but I but what's interesting about that is I did
both of those myself in ten days. That was when
I was, you know, yeah, younger, and I mean they
(30:26):
were really big, big hows and I built the whole thing,
built both of them in ten days. That was when
I was, you know, trying to prove myself and I
would go without sleeper day at the time, so but
they ended up in the movie and they you know,
they worked really well.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
And obviously you worked on those two brilliant studio films.
Now you have a seven thousand square foot studio and
lead a team of highly specialized experts. What's your approach
to leadership and creative culture?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
For me, it's always been I try to hire the
best people and then I let them do their job.
I you know, at the beginning, it was, you know,
I really wanted to be hands on for everything, but
I realized that if I wanted to grow, that I
needed to trust other people and just let them do
(31:23):
what they're good at. And once I was able to
let go and do that, you know, we immediately were
able to do a lot more and do a much
better job. You know, I know so many people who
are just really really brilliant and talented, but they cannot
they cannot delegate, and they can't let other people do
(31:47):
work for them without being micromanagers, and it just never works. So,
you know, I always try to hire people that are
better than me, and I let them do their job,
and we always end up turning out a great product.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Do you think there are free reasons in particular why
people struggle to delegate, because it's something that often comes up.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I think that, you know, it's it's letting, letting go
of control. Maybe, you know, we always want to control
our what we do. Yeah, and you know, I'm maybe
it's a bit of arrogance. I don't know that I
think that I can do it better than anyone else,
And it's not always true. I mean, you know, it's
(32:31):
it's there's a lot of people who out there who
can and do a great job. And another another another
thing I I, you know, to get up the subject
a little bit. Another thing I do here is like
I don't I make sure that the people are hire
are good people and good good with other people. There's
(32:52):
a lot of artists out there that are amazing, but
they're not sociable, they're not not team players. They are
are disruptors. And I'd rather hire somebody who's is a
little bit less talented, but a lot a lot easier
to work with and a lot you know, and a
(33:15):
good person than somebody who's amazing and just a real
nightmare to work with.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
So are we saying you would go for a seven
out of ten rather than a nine out of ten.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Well maybe an eight out of ten. Oh that yeah, yeah,
so yes I would because you know, in the end,
this is commercial art what we're what we're doing, and
it has to get done, and if somebody gets in
the way of it being done, no one. Yeah, it
(33:50):
just doesn't work. So I just can't. I don't have
time for that, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Well, yeah, completely understandable. Have you had a situation in
particular you can tell us about when you hired someone
and they just didn't quite fit in what your vision was.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
I mean I've hired people that have One guy in
particularly is a great sculptor, but you know, he decided,
you know too, that he would first on the first
day he took the a two hour launch and you know,
the next day, you know, three hours, and you know,
(34:29):
and then he didn't, you know, trying to I guess,
trying to position himself. I guess, I don't know, or
show I don't know what he was trying to show me.
But you know, in the end that we got the
work done and it looked great. But I never hired
him again after that because I can't. It's just it
doesn't work for me, you know, I mean, there are
(34:52):
people who Yeah, there are people who I've worked with
in the past that are great and they deliver, but
it's just the process is so difficult with the attitude
and the and the temperament that I just they're just
other people I can hire, you know, that are that
(35:12):
are great to work with, So why would I work
with them? You know? So so, yes, I've had quite
quite a few INSS just like that that I just
But now I can weed it out pretty quickly, you know,
I can see it right from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
So if someone takes a two hour break or a
free hour break, when you discuss that with them, what
in their head do they feel it's justifiable for doing that?
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Oh? You know, they will, you know. It's it's a
kind of I guess, a Prima Donna type thing. Oh yeah,
I'm just good so I can do that. Uh, I'm not.
I'm not very confrontational. I'm more like, okay, that's what
you did. You're you know, strike one in my mind,
(35:59):
you know, and then it's okay, strike too, and then
strike through. Yvont So you know, I don't really, I don't.
I'm not the kind of person. I'm not a yeller.
I don't really raise my voice. I don't. I'm very
easy going, but you know, I keep an eye. I
watch what you do. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Gotcha, everyone listening, Everyone be aware if you're gonna work
with lead, that's the situation. And he's right. So tell
us a bit more about your seven thousand square foot studio.
When did you create it and what was the motivation
to create such an impressive studio.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Well, it's it's actually it grows in shrinks. I mean,
we have like a baseline that we have right now.
We're kind of we're kind of at the small side.
You know, we've we've you know, expanded up to twelve
and you know that's still not very very big, but
(36:57):
it's enough for what we need. We have, Uh, we
have a full time engineering department, which is you know,
it's it's sort of the opposite of the artists, you know,
they because we do so much theme park work, we
had to have all of our stuff is contracted to
(37:19):
be uh reliable over a twenty year lifespan. So the
stuff we make right now has to be really well engineered.
So you know, it takes sometimes months and months and
months to build these things in the computer and a
(37:40):
lot of collaboration. So we have that and we have
a full mechanical shop. Even though we do a lot
of we we outsource a lot of of our stuff,
a lot of our parts that we assemble, and then
we we have a god how many printers through seventeen
(38:04):
three D printers that we use for printing work. And
you know, and you know, we have a lot of
computer work going on here, a lot of computer stations
that people design, and you know, we have a small
mold shop. We you know, used to do a lot
of molds by hand. You know, when we do a sculpture,
(38:27):
you have to mold it, cast it. Yeah, but now
now we build everything. We do a lot of sculpture
in the computer, and then we create the molds in
the computer, so we print them out and then we
can make our creature skins or creature faces or hands
or whatever like that. So the computer has really changed
(38:49):
the business in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
So if you're doing more and more of your design
work through the computer, and it's become more prominent. See
the future of animatronics and practical effects in film and
theme parks.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Well, I think you know, for me, I I sort
of slowly move towards the theme park world because it
was real and it's you touch it. You know, movies
are movies are you know they're they the computer images
(39:30):
have really really taken over that that world, and I
think that's only going to go further. However, you know,
if you have to sit on something and you have
to see something in front of your face, it's it's
pretty difficult to have just a screen. It doesn't have
the same impact as as a like you you know,
(39:52):
if you go through a Walt Disney, you know, prior
to the Caribbean, for example, you know you can ride
on that boat ride and the water is real and
the things you see are real, or I should say
the simblies of a real and you always see something
a little different each time you go. So to me,
(40:14):
that's that's more interesting. It's something you know, you can
feel in touch or at least you know, I feel
like it's it's it's in a real space. So I
think I think that that world is not so in
danger of being completely replaced by computers. As as the
(40:38):
movie business, we're now you know, we're we're looking at
ai uh and the companies are starting to see if
they can, you know, can we create this entire movie
through AI or at least, you know, visualize most of it.
So that's gonna If you don't start thinking about that technology,
(40:59):
I think you're you're gonna be in trouble. You really
do need to at least understand it and understand how
you can use it to your benefit or you know.
I mean, right now, I'm I'm doing some things where
I'm like using it for pre visualizations. And it's what's
(41:21):
great about it. It's it's not gonna it's not gonna
deliver a final script or a final at this point anyway.
But it does it does, uh, you know, it helps
you visualize, It helps you think a little bit, you know,
and if you use it just as something extra, I think.
(41:42):
I think it's totally legitimate and great, you know.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
And how has it affected your team and yourself so far?
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Oh? I'm you know, I I don't look at it
as something to be worried about it. I look at
this something to understand and learn about, you know, right, yeah, yeah,
I mean the things we do are pretty complicated. It
really require human interaction and touch and it's there, you know.
(42:12):
It's not something you can trust the computer just to
spin out. So yeah, so you know, yes, we could
definitely use it as it's just another tool in the toolbox.
It's not it's not anything that i'm I'm I'm worried about.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
And what kind of projects or genres are you excited
to explore because you've worked on so many different types
of films and and genres are different directors produces completely
different types of actors as well.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
We so like we've really been involved in a lot
of interactive characters, robotic characters, Like we just recently did
a lot of work for this brand new big park
that opened up in Orlando, and you know, we created
several freeing uh characters that you know, interact and are puppeteered.
(43:07):
You know, these are four legged, uh four legged characters
that walk around and and they can they're fully expressive.
Another thing we we also we just wanted a feel
award for we we uh worked on you know, we
we did some finished work on on these little I
don't know if you've seen the little box droids, the
(43:28):
little tiny robots that walk around uh in Disneyland. H Yeah,
so we we we had a part of that and uh,
those are really fun and neat, and so I'm just
using that as an example of things that I would
like to work on in the future, more of that
kind of free roaming, robotic character that interacts with people.
(43:57):
I'm also uh starting to look at actually creating our
own entertainment sort of uh live live experience, which I
don't I haven't fully formed it yet, but live experiences, uh,
that will utilize our talent. So that's a whole nother
(44:19):
That's a whole nother show and a whole other topic.
But I really think, I do really think like live
experiences is where we're headed. Uh, you know, it just
seems like people were very interested in that at the moment.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
And professionally, are there any dream collaborators still on your
list that you wish to work with?
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Not really, I mean, I that's a good question. I mean,
there are people that I really admire in that that business.
But you know, no, I mean it's just you know,
I I would like to do something else with Frank
if he has another project, you know, is really interesting,
(45:00):
Frank Ocean. And you know, if if you know, to me,
it's like these these opportunities start up, just pop up
and and and you know, I'm like, wow, that's fun.
That's cool. So yeah, it's I'm not I'm not somebody
who uh we just actually we did some work too
(45:23):
with Gimo del Toro. He's really really amazing, So you know,
I I is there anybody who I would like say, wow,
I'd love to work with him? That really I just
it pops up and and I'm like, wow, it's really
I'm really grateful to be able to, uh, to collaborate
with these these uh, these such intentive and amazing uh people.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
And for filmmakers and creatives listening who want to innovate
visually but don't know where to begin, what advice would
you give to them?
Speaker 1 (45:58):
I think you have to you know that you have
to get into a mindset of learning on your own.
I know so many who contact and say what school
should I go to? Which things should I do? But
there's so much information out there you can learn on
(46:21):
your own. How to you know, learn your art just
by literally working after hours if you have if you
have a job, you have to do your job and
then you have to go home and you have to
work on your art work. You know. I remember when
I was first starting to sculpt, makeups, and I was
(46:46):
working during the day, I was actually sculpting Bondygros props
in New Orleans, and at night I would come home
and I would work on my makeup sculptures. And I
remember one day I literally worked on one sculpture for
eighteen hours straight and yeah, yeah, yeah, I only got
(47:07):
to go to the bathroom and you know, but that's like,
but that was I was obsessed, you know, to work
on that and get it. And that's kind of the
mindset you have to have. You have to be obsessed
with what you're doing. You have to. You can't wait
for somebody else to to help you or show you.
You have to you know, you have to sort of
(47:28):
have a do it yourself mentality at first and learn
and push yourself. And of course my second, my second
bit of advice is find the person that you the
best person you can, who's the best person, and try
to talk to them and try to see if they will,
you know, give you tips and advice and help, and
(47:53):
you know, don't don't go with a mediocre person. Learn
from the best you know.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
If you can't so, and your passion is obvious and
commitment is obvious too. But if you want the artists
that you are today, What do you think you'd be
doing professionally.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Probably like a Walmart greader something like that. I don't.
I don't. I have no idea. That's a good question.
M hmm. I don't know. Okay, I don't know. I
mean I just kind of like, you know, I always
think about how lucky I am to be doing this,
and I'm like, well, what would I you know, I
wasn't doing this, I'd be a bomb. I don't. I
don't know, you know, this is kind of this was
(48:36):
kind of what I was meant to do.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Yes, yes, it certainly was. Where can audiences find your
latest work?
Speaker 1 (48:46):
You can go to Epic Universe in Orlando and steal
a lot of things that we've done. It's a it's
a brand new theme park and latest world work we did.
There's a pot smoking Koala on the house party. Uh,
(49:08):
the new movie that just came out Okay, yeah, like
last couple of years. You can see that that's something
that we did, and and also some work on the
upcoming Frankenstein.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Yiamo del Toro, Lee, thanks so much for coming on
the podcast. Really appreciate you taking it time to talk
to me, and I hope to speak to you soon.
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