December 10, 2025 • 48 mins
In this enlightening episode of Finding Your Niche with Neish, I sit down with branding strategist Andi Dunn to explore the art of branding and design. Together, we explore her ability to design with intention in her boutique branding agency Honey Creative. We dive into everything from the power of color and typography to the strategies that help you design the life you want. We also touch on the interpersonal work that goes into crafting a personal brand that truly reflects who you are. It’s a dynamic conversation filled with creative insights and practical tips that will inspire you to embrace your design journey. Take a listen!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Nope, this is good.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
So right now I am laughing and talking and smiling
from ear to ear because I have the pleasure in
the honor of having someone on the show today here
finding your niece with niche, who has essentially done just that.
She has found her niche and she is a branding
strategist and an expert, enthusiast professional in terms of design.
(00:28):
I'm so happy to have you on the show. Welcome,
Andy Dunn.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
How are you feeling nervous? But I'm great, happy to
be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yes, very good. I'm excited to have you on.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Actually, I've gotten the chance to know you over the
past couple of months in general as just like a person,
and I am like, well, before I've actually got to
get to know you for real, I was just like
already obsessed with you and your design skills and your
Instagram and your writing. So I am like, wow, I'm
forging a friendship with someone who I already kind of
(01:05):
admired and adored, and so it's been nice to kind
of cultivate this relationship with you and learn a little
bit more about who you are and the incredible work
you guys do at honey, creative. So I do want
to start off, but we're you going to say it's.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Going to say, well, thanks, Yeah, I feel like I
should interject me, like, those are all nice things about
me that he said.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I did want to.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Start off by kind of talking a little bit about
the inception of you wanting to even get into that
creative space.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Where that started from.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Was there an isolated moment in your upbringing and your
childhood where you kind of realized, Okay, I really care
about cultivating and honoring my creativity and I want to
do something with it.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I think from an early age, I've always known that
I was the weird art kid. I would carry around
my sketchbook everywhere. The top thing on my Christmas list
was always a rose art set or.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Coloring pencils, you name it.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
It was just that kid that was very into any
and all types of art, and it shaped a lot
of my interest in culture as well. I got really
into more fine art as I into like high school
and into college, wanting to study more like Italian art
and art history.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, but I had a lot of.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Fear associated with monetizing fine art, like actually doing commission
type work and being a painter.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Or yeah, a drawer.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I'mist an artist being an artist, that's what they're in
a formal capacity. I think that put a lot of
pressure on something that I had always thought of as
an expression of myself and.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Not wanting to take that away.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
And as social media became more and more introduced into
my process, I noticed a sense in myself of performance okay,
and starting to create to post like oh, let me yeah,
let me draw this amazing realistic blah blah blah, to
see how many likes.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
It was when that started to take shape that I'm like,
I should probably pivot a bit and still utilize my
interest in a way that feels valuable and yeah, and
authentic to who I am, but not in a way
that feels as icky.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
When you know, when you were younger, Carrie walking around
with your sketchulking stuff, what kind of things like if
I were to take a look at it right now today,
like what kind of things were you drawing back then?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
A lot of it was just in my surroundings.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
So I was like, or I used to love to
recreate illustrations from children's books. Do you remember the Little
Critter series?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Little that sounds so familiar.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh my god, that sounds so familiar, Like does he
kind of have like crazy hair?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Like yeah, okay, that sounds.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
It's like a series or like the Burns Barrier. Yeah,
I would redraw all of those or huh Lisa Frank definitely, Yeah,
a chapter like dolphins only, Yeah, exclusively dolphins for a
hot minute.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Mine was less like intricate than that.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I would just I guess I don't know where I learned,
but I learned how to draw a girl from the
back wearing a bathing suit or the back and then
the bottoms like went up her butt and then there's
like the.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Coppa sky Yeah, there's like a skyline and then the sunset,
and I just like kept drawing, so you could find
like at least twelve pictures of the back of this
girl's booty and she's like at the beach and I
just kept drawing there.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And I would also draw like.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
The little I don't know if it's like a Superman
S with a little point on the top.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
What is that smile? Like you would draw the S
and then right smile yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And so that was kind of like my version of
drawing but for you that sounds a lot like more
intricate and more observing of the atmosphere.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Where did that come from?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I was kind of a quiet or reserved kid. You
would have to get to know me more for my
personality to come out or for me to feel terrible
and confident. And I think in seeing a lot of
beauty in the quiet we had like a garden growing up,
(05:25):
we're outside tons grow up far far out in the country,
and it was just something to.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Notice the details.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yeah, that was constantly what I was obsessed with, how
the shadows looked it and visualizing items even when I
wasn't drawing or painting. How would this translate to paper?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Like what?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
And I still carry that even throughout my day, like
how which is ironic because I'm tear what during my
own makeup? But like how are shadows like on your face?
Or like how could this? How could this translate into
a different format? And so that was always intriguing to me,
I think, and that's why I was really I did
(06:07):
mostly realism, so like I would just draw what I saw,
or like I would spend weeks and weeks on like
one particular a lot of animals, like one particular subject
or would do. And as people as I got a
little bit older, like into teenagers, some people would commission
for like dogs and yeah, you know, like different types
(06:28):
of subjects. People would ask to draw murals or like
different And I.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Was going to ask you that too, Like at what point,
because I feel like that's when you start to really
start feeling yourself or you can even consider yourself to
be an artist. Is when other people are like, hey,
can you draw this for me? Or that looks amazing?
Was there a point in time where you can recognize
kind of that shift in your work where people were like, Okay,
I want you to draw me this now. Was there
(06:54):
a time that you can recall like when that started
to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I'm laughing because I'm thinking second grade miss Field class
drawing bubble letters of my name. A kid comes up
as like, hey, i'll pay you so.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
That I mean for bubble letter for bubble letters.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, so really we could attribute my entrepreneurial journey all
the way back.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Okay, okay, shout out to this fait. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
But and honestly, I think as I started to get
closer and closer to college and people were reaching out
specifically about mural work, and I didn't really like I
don't like that so much as a canvas. It's it's
hard for me to like draw upright for whatever reason. Yeah,
(07:36):
but that just felt more pressure to create something that's
going to be in someone's house or like place of business.
And that's when I started to feel more anxiety or
like more realization. Yeah, I think that I need to
find something more fitting for myself that is an expression
(07:58):
of creativity but is different. And as I started to
enter into college and contemplating what that could look like
as far as a career is concerned, advertising was an
obvious next route, but that I kept changing to myself,
I don't want to just sell shit to people who
don't want to just sell things for the sake of selling.
(08:18):
That also didn't feel great well fully aligned with what
I wanted or what I believed in. And but I
think I always had this spirit of working for myself
and being an entrepreneur. And I laughed that I'm always
fascinated by my friend's corporate gossip because I have no.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Concept for a lot of Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, from college, I immediately jumped into entrepreneurship. There there
was never anything now really, Yeah, I didn't do so.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
You didn't work for a firm or like an agency.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
No, I didn't do any internships. I had a short
interim like student transition physician from college about six months
after I graduated. But yeah, I was there that I
was like, yeah, like, oh, while I'm doing this in
this space, like I could do this for myself and wow.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Never But you don't come from like your background in
your family. There's not a lot of entrepreneurs in your family.
So I wonder what made you subscribe to that new
way of thinking.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Defiance like stubbornness. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I do think it was. It's a bit of both.
Like I think stubbornness can be seen as a positive.
And I had this very staunch belief in myself that
there was no other alternative, there was no other way
that I wanted. And not to say that I immediately found
success and was making six figures the.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
First here right right, you can check tax.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Or seats for that, because that was not But I
just felt very compelled that I could do more for
more people if I were doing it for myself.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That I love that transition, and I think that ownership
over your future my husband. He says a quote, not
Karen who it's from, but he says, the best way
to know your future is to create it. And I
think that's huge because a lot of times, a lot
of people don't have that same, you know, concept for
philosophy about how to live their life. They think that
(10:21):
they're kind of just subject to what happens to them,
and they don't know that there's opportunity for them to
kind of take control of their own life and create
a future for themselves that they could never even imagine
or envision. And so for you taking that kind of
initial first step of saying I'm going to work for myself,
I'm going to create something out of nothing, is that war, honey,
(10:43):
creative was born or Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So in that sort of student position, I worked for
kind of like an in house agency of sorts, okay,
on campus for department. So we worked for the College
of Arts and Sciences. We were called the Hives. Oh
and myself a web developer, coworker, and a videographer.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
We were just shooting the shit, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Lunch, like, why don't we start something, like we should
start doing this independently?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, ourselves. We kind of got wored of like.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Wow, so and so is charting and how much it
Now We're like, we could totally do that. The appeal
and the shiny object of the grass is always greener
on the other side. Sure, And I remember vividly, like
I remember the day that we chose the name. We
were all kind of sitting in a circle. Our creative
director was just helping us id eight names, and they
were just sounding insane, just saying random words out loud,
(11:41):
of like you're about jelly, what about like just whatever,
like the most random things, and trying to think about
really successful businesses that were like made up names. We
have something like Google, I mean everyone old things they
have to have some hodgepodge crazy name. And it was
like a light bulb moment when we're like, well, we're
(12:03):
an evolution of the hive. We are a product of
the hive. We started here. What's the product of the hives? Honey?
And we kept saying it over and over and over again, honey,
honey for loney.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Like just didn't terrific and you shall not.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
We're like to try to say honey with a mad face,
like yeah, honey, like you can't, you can't always it's
a pleasant word to say. It sounds nice, it's something
that tastes great.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yes, and.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It felt like such a great fit. So that's kind
of where it started. I don't even remember our first project,
but the idea was that we would kind of start
our own agency and begin to work with people like
networking people that I'm knew within the area or and
that we had kind of came into contact with from
(12:52):
class or whatever.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
And it was like a year or so into it
that my partners had the come to Jesus of maybe
entrepreneurship is it is a person for me that cut
out for it. Yeah. And and really we were so
naive and that was probably a blessing in disguise because
I had no idea what the weight of entrepreneurship actually
(13:17):
was at that time, and I didn't have time to
stress about it. I didn't have a mortgage, I didn't
have child or yeah, and their responsibilities. So if it failed,
it was okay, great, that was a nice shot. Did
jobby job and that'll be fine. But uh, in the moment,
(13:37):
it was just why not. That's kind of the that's
the inception.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Wow, I love that, and you stuck with it.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, here we are yep, so ten ten years later
as of June of this past year.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I'm curious to know too, Like I said, like, I've
looked at your Instagram and stuff, and I really like
how you see things, and I'm curious to know. If
someone were to ask you, like your definition of design,
what is design to you?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
The immediate answer that came to mind was storytelling. I
think design, particularly brand design, is storytelling by nature.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
A lot of people would probably respond.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
With design should be simple and very nuanced and less
is more. And while all of that is true, I
do think ultimately any brand that you come into contact with,
any design, anything that you choose for your house, it
is a reflection of other choices that have been made
(14:46):
and supports an experience. It supports a physical experience as
you walk into a space, an experience around a service
that you hired a business for, or even your experience
shopping online. It doesn't necessarily have to be be a
service or a physical space. It is reflective of an experience,
which in turn is story. Like you're you're having stories,
(15:10):
You're creating memories around an experience.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, I want to and I kind of want to
unpack out a little bit what you're saying, because I
think there's a certain approach that you have or that
you take in terms of how do you perceive the
story that's being told for you in your business and
in your expertise, Like, I guess what are the steps
in terms of like how do I even go about
(15:35):
like creating that story through design? Like what are the
specific things that I need to be mindful of or
look for or ask questions about? Like what would be
your advice in terms of someone who's like, Okay, I
want to get better at design. I want to get
better at my approach to design. What is something that
you do that helps to kind of like create your
(15:56):
process to ensure that that storytelling is being told.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I think even beyond design, Like if someone more interested
in how do I get better with my own business
or communicating or end mass, And I think it starts
with listening, and it starts with allowing people the space
and the time to be able to share their story
and how to capture that and translated individual way that
(16:23):
can then support someone else's experience with how they feel
about it. So that's personal questions around just like you
he asked me here, how did you get started why,
like what is your background?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
What does it mean to you?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And then being able to pull at threads and create
an ecosystem of the experience in using my expertise as well. So, yeah,
is there historical context we can pull from? What are
the people that you're already working with or people already
in your space saying about you? So not just going
directly to the source and hearing from the horse's mouth,
(17:00):
if you will, but yeah, what are people already talking
about that? Because it is it's incredibly hard to talk
about yourself, Like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
It sucks.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Like if someone's ever asked you to write a bio
about yourself, you'd.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Be like in nineteen ninety three, yet I was hard, Like, but.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
That's interesting hard and that approach that you're saying that
you have to design and reminds me a lot for
myself in terms of like communication and interviewing. Is I
always feel like there's a question, but then there's a
question inside of the question. And so when you're mentioning
this aspect of you know, the threads that make something up,
are you able to kind of pinpoint Okay, let's stay
(17:38):
on that a little bit more and kind of pry
to kind of get a little bit more acclimated with
someone's story or go a little bit deeper in ways that.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
They probably hadn't yet explored.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Are you conscious of like when to do that in
terms of timing on, like how to stay on something
so to kind of pull out meaning that will help
you draw that you'll be able to draw from.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Rather in terms of the design, that's a skill.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Okay, I'm constantly refining because reading people and designing are
two very different skill sets to acquire, but they're both
equally is important. But having a self awareness know when
to shut the hell up and allow someone to talk,
(18:23):
and encouragement to notice the subtlety and someone shift in
their gener or in their emotion or the way that
they're telling me something to pick up on.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Hey, I think you kind of got to go into
like therapist mode. I think there's something there.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I can tell the passion kind of rose a little
bit when you said this particular thing or when you
told this story. And so making sure that you, I
guess take mental note on in literal notes of like
those things and incorporating them into the design is kind
of like your approach.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Wow, the process that comes to mind is why, Simon Sinex,
I think that's how you say it's he has this
concept of like why, And so every every time I
hear what always starts as an ask, I need a
new website, I need a new logo, my colors suck,
blah blah blah whatever, whatever their problem is, why why do.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
You feel that way?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Well, so next year, I really want to hit X
business goal or I want to make X amount, or
we're krying to open up a new store, or we're
launching a new product line.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Why. And then in so like a question is why, Yeah,
just why?
Speaker 3 (19:39):
And it almost always correlates to like a personal ration.
And the people that I enjoy working with, yes, say no,
one that we choose to partner with and that choose
to partner with us are just seeking profit for the
sake of profit. They're also passionate, purposeful entrepreneurs that have
gotten into the game speak because they want to do
(20:02):
something good in the world or they believe in whatever
it is that they're doing, which is, yeah, it makes
my job a lot easier because I'm like great here.
Our tagline is like we design cool shit for nice
ass people like.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Nice that's it. So shit the description.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, So most often, whenever you actually dig deeper into
you kind of start with the surface level expectation of
what we're looking for, which is always deliverable based, and
we provide that, right, Like practically we provide logo files,
we provide websites. But what's the feeling and the emotion
behind that. Well, they're really embarrassed, like I don't want
(20:37):
to share my website to potential clients. Okay, why are
you feeling that way? Well, I have this really audacious
goal that I'm kind of scared to share, but I
really want to hit Yeah, and why do you want
to reach that number? Well, because of X, Like I
want to hire someone, I want to give someone a raise,
(20:57):
or we're trying to recently over the summer, we're trying
to have a baby, and we want to have an
operation and a business that supports us as parents. Yeah,
to step away, Like it's almost always something that is
deeper connected, and that's really the ecosystem, Like how can I.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Support Yeah, they real Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Like an identity that does it justice, yeah, and that
they can confidently fall back on.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I think it's interesting too in terms of like just
speaking about art. I have friends and stuff that are
like in the fashion space and their stylus. And I
have a friend in particular who I know, and she
says that, like when she's getting ready to pick out
an outphit she it depends on the day, but sometimes
she'll work her way down up, so she'll start with
(21:46):
just like a pair of shoes, and then she'll kind
of sculpt the outfit around the pair of shoes. Or
if she sees like I want to wear this hat, now,
how can I build around this hat?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
For you?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
In design, is it one thing that comes before the
other or in your process in terms of like creating
something from scratch, do you have a system that you
stick to or is it kind of fluid?
Speaker 1 (22:10):
What's your approach? It's kind of twofold.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
So on more of the strategic storytelling side to get
at what I need to communicate or tell that it
always starts with pulling or serving their current audience and
people that they have in their sphere, so key stakeholders,
people that have known and loved them since their inception. Okay,
(22:35):
getting curious about why why do they support them? What
do they love about them? Because that will tell me
so much more than one singular conversation with the business
owner or unfortunately, what's really common in our industry, one
questionnaire that the business owner is going to sit down
and submit, or maybe not the business owner, maybe it's
someone else that they've offloaded this task because it feels
(22:55):
just like that a chore. Yeah, So we try to
get a full or complete picture and from that utilizing
most often like adjectives or like what can we discern
from that data and that qualitative information to translate.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
It into the design.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
But once once it gets into that state, and we're
ready to kind of put mouse to screen, like I
always like thinking, especially now, and this is going to
be so so important from an industry perspective and being
competitive in a space where AI is kind of coming
for your neck? How can I make this analog? So
(23:38):
what about this project can I do handmade? What can
I pull out of the screen? Because that all it
helps support differentiation just from competitors, because no one can
work with their hands like I do or like my
team does. No one will ever recreate this pen to
paper or medium to paper like I can, and likely
(24:01):
none of their competitors are are are doing that from
like a business perspective, So like both design and business
leveraging that as a unique thing. So for example, like
we'll implement like our junior designer is doing marbling right now,
like paper.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's like a traditional Turkish technique.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
We're doing a branding cool for a Mediterranean restaurant in Alfaretta,
So doing a lot of research that came from Okay,
this is the vibe. A ton of the Turkish community
love this particular restaurant because it feels true, authentic. Well
what is true and authentic about Turkish culture. They're really
known for marbling like paper, traditional art marblings.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, ordered all the shit, had it sent? Now, that's
that's becoming marveling away. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, So doing stuff like that, we've done like stamping
freshwork charcoal, so that is and it really makes my
like weird art kid self happy. I'm able to still
capture what I love and when I have loved my
entire life and bring it into a space that feels
relevant and purposeful and meaningful.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Today, And it's so tactical to like get your hands
back moving back in the elements of actually being creative
that physical experience. There's so many things in design that like, Okay,
what matters most?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Is it color? Is it fun? Is it?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You know, aesthetics as a texture. Let's talk about color
for a little bit. What's your philosophy and your relationship
with color? In terms of design, color.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Is an interesting one because it has translated and shifted
so much from where even like ten twenty years ago,
if you would, or like really in the start of
my business and thinking about color applications, so many more
people are experiencing a brand through the digital space and
(26:01):
more specifically on their phone than ever before. So previously
I would say, color, of course has a massive implication
to the overall aesthetic of any space, even this room,
the walls are painted like that provides a certain vibe.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
A certainel an emotion.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
But now it is I try to approach color from
a lens of accessibility, and how can the designs that
I'm creating translate fluidly from a giant max screen with
physical in person signage all the way down into someone's
tiny phone and utilizing kind of standard accessibility practices. For contrast,
(26:48):
this has become more of an integral part part of
how we contemplate and think about color and use it.
So that way not only on a baseline just for
inclusivity practices, but just from like your girl be getting
old and my eyes hurt and I can't like I
don't want to zoom in on stuff, you know, Yeah,
(27:08):
and I'm noticing that about myself, but even like other
people from their devices, Like it's.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, And that's interesting too because when I think about color,
and this is like I need someone like you in
my life.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
But how do you like the basic colors?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Like when you think about branding now, like you have
those core colors that you were taught that like stand
out and pop. In terms of like marketing, I guess,
how do you allow someone to still feel like they
can take a chance on kind of like going outside
of those traditional blue, red, yellow walls of color, but
(27:45):
still feel like they can be recognizable, noticeable, and distinguished
essentially within their brand with trying and exploring colors outside
of those traditional marketing ones.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
We kind of do a like a double sided perspective
from like we want to know what your competitors look
like so that in your if someone your client, your customer, whoever,
has I always think about like at your chrome tab,
if you've got six chrumb tabs open for each of
your competitors. Yes, and they're clicking between all of their
(28:21):
websites or they're looking across all their social media profiles
and you all have the exact same color.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I got questions.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yeah, And it creates this saneness in your mind where
nothing really stands out anymore. It makes me think of
when we went house shopping, Like you go to a
million open houses, then every single one looks the same
same way, but we chose a house that has a
pink door. It stood out in our minds, like we're like, oh, yeah,
the one with the pink doors.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Challenging clients to think about color in a way that
provides them an opportunity to stand out and has an
ability to influence before someone one walks into your physical
door metaphysical door yeah, online or before they're really formally
introduced to your plan. So like there's some there's jury's
(29:12):
kind of still out about like this, the actual credibility
of color psychology, But there is true science behind we
as humans and we as people associate different colors with
even outside of any businesses or brands. If I ask
you what color Starbucks was.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I'm gonna say green. World. Maybe what color is McDonald's yellow?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Right, So there we have like these preset contextualize ideas
and associations just based on how we operate as consumers,
but how we observe and interact in nature.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
So when you think of of nature, what color trees?
Green and right?
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Yeah, green, brown, grown?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
When you think of calm, peaceful, yeah, the ocean, right, water,
sky like those are those are kind of tried and
true methods and practices that a lot of people don't
have an awareness of. Or like, uh, emergency vehicles and
the most always they're painted with some shade of red.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, So it's alert awareness.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
And there's a lot of power as well in historical
context through color usage and how they've came to be
beyond just your primary colors, like mixing colors. So like
purple was previously this very gate kept color that was
reserved for those in royalty because it was expensive to create,
like the actual pigment. Pigment was expensive to create, so
(30:42):
it was not for the layman and so and that's
why we think of it like, yeah, when you think
of like prime royal, like anything purple, Yeah, it's all purple.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Right, Well, that was and now then on now I'm
about to go down a warm world because now I'm
so confused now and even saying how color is even made,
Like I don't think I've ever even heard anyone say
that out loud, like those words in that order.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, so what is that? Like?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Explain that to me for somebody who's listening, and they're
just like, oh, you're saying purples are difficult to make?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I mean, now it's different, right, like the practice of
making color. I've just went to Benjamin war this morning
for my bathroom color. Like it's oppressed to the button.
They're shaking up the shit and yeah, you're out the door.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
And I need to figure out who's how much you
get paid to even come up with paint names?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Like who's the police person hired? Who are the people
you come up with the news OPI Crayola hit me up?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Because I want to be the person that that was
actually my like senior yearbook. It's like I want to
be the person that comes up with the name. Really,
and now I kind of do because I just like
make up names for.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Clients, yeah all the time.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Yeah, but before you need about like actual pigmenting or
die even now like for for fabric your friend friend
that's in fashion and it's there was like a myriad
of processes depending on where you're at in the world
of how to actually create and pool color.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
So like, wow, was a snail mucus like this, like
purple snail. I swear this snail had purple tone.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
So they would extract the mucus and I don't know
how like you squeeze it.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
I don't know, like Gary, the.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Snail just walks by and you get the slug trail
of the those but you know, like a lot of plants,
like kind of natural herbalism was kind of the inception
of of extracting pigment to create textiles, to create me,
to create like any really any observable color in your world.
(32:43):
And now it's evolved. But I think now it's even
more interesting because we have different color spaces. So there's
the web space, which is actually wider, broader. You're able
to get easier access to fluorescence because of the actual
operating system of your computer, not to.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Get like over.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Like the pixels that are that are on your screen
a wider range of color value than what's possible to print.
So it's just it's a different color mode. That's why,
Like something like you can get like a fluorescent highlighter color, yeah,
easier if you were to try to print it on
like your home computer, right Like so and that to
(33:27):
me is really interesting as well because those are considerations
that we have to think about for our clients. So
like how how will they utilize color in their brand?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Is in do they have a physical space? Are they
only online? Yeah? What can we keep top of mind?
Speaker 3 (33:45):
And sometimes it informs flexibility right Like if they're only online, great, cool,
floor it up. But if we have to think about, uh,
are they going to be printing flyers from their epsom
that home much struggle blessing with their ink all the time.
What do we have to be mindful of so that
it is as translatable once we signed, sealed deliver the files.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I think that's interesting. I'm curious to know for you
are there colors that you find yourself like having favoritism
over than others, Like when you're you know, getting getting
into the cusp and the like, really you know, rolling
up your sleeves, getting into the design in general, just
maybe four point outside of a point are there colors
that you favor over others?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And why.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I tend to favor color in general, Like, I think
there's a common trend right now that's like minimalism and
like creams.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
And blacks and white.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yeah, and I think that there's so much power in
utilizing color for attention grabbing. I'm obviously biased towards yellow
because my brain uses yellow. But it's like a very
optimistic color.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
It does all.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
It just presents some challenges for accessibility, right, Like it's
can be difficult to marry. But yeah, overall, I try
to approach the color conversation with clients in a challenging way,
and that supports our survey results, right, Like, so if
people of yoga studio we just work with calming, peaceful, serene, quiet,
(35:18):
how can we support those adjectives through color?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah? I love that. I think too. You may be
know you are?
Speaker 2 (35:27):
You definitely are the only person that I've ever heard
of there we go, the only person that I've ever
heard that they spente hundreds of dollars on access to
a font.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Why, Okay, this is this is a great educational to
the vest's opportunity. Because font licenses can be expensive. They
for premium what I would consider premium fonts. And that's
not to say that there aren't great free ones that
are available on Google Fonts or even like system Helbetica
(36:03):
is used and yeah everywhere all over the place.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Designing fonts is just as challenging and just as much
as an art and as brain design. There are people
who only they have entire foundries, as they're called of typography,
and they have refined their craft. They've also done exactly
what I've talked about historical references. Like one designer that
(36:30):
comes to mind, his name's tray Seals. He creates fonts
based on protest signage, so all of them have specific
lineage and historical context to suffrage movement where some rights
were and that influence is really powerful, right, Like you're
taking back an opportunity in a moment in time, Yeah,
and repurposing them in today's applications. So I will happily
(36:55):
pay a lot of hundreds and dollars for fonts because
I truly believe that they're there's craft in that, and
yeah there are, and you can get some real real hokey,
crappy thoughts, yeah, that have like weird spacing or like
the apostrophe doesn't exist.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
That he's actually happened.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, the question mark or multilingual support isn't there? So
thinking about all the different types of letterforms and characters
that would be necessary to translate any page, like into
Spanish or into Arabic. Yeah, any any sort of like Chinese, Japan.
Like there, there's a multitude of reasons why someone would
(37:35):
want to invest and for differentiation, Like I said, if
at oftentimes like Airbnb, Starbucks, all these big, big corporate
companies pay a specific designer or more often they're like
within the actual agency, like these big agencies that they're
hiring to create a singular typeface only for them.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, And that's interesting that you say that too, now,
because if I think about it in my head, I don't.
I mean, there might be similar fonts that you know,
look similar in nature, but it's still not like to
a team. But I didn't even think about it that
way for those big name companies, like actually securing a
particular font in terms of design, Like is there anything
(38:17):
that has taken you a while to outgrow in design
that you still do or that not that you still do,
but like it's taking you like something in aspect of
design that you like, kept doing, kept doing, and then
it's like, okay, I need to like this isn't like
a trend. Yeah, like this isn't a trend anymore, Like
(38:37):
but you were still kind of holding on to doing
it because it.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Worked for you or you liked it. That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Gradients really had a choke hold for a minute on me.
I really liked gradient usage.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
But it is, it's it. It sucks to print.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
If you can imagine like the banding that's possible in print,
like you get those stripes any sort of if you're
trying to go from one color to another, Yeah, that
can be. That can be difficult.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
But yeah, I was rady. I was really, And I
mean I'm sure you had.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
You probably saw quite a few like yeah, they were really.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
They were trending for for a little bit.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
I think from the outside looking in for somebody who's
technically not in design. But I admire it and I
respect it when I see a good design. Are there
brands to you that you were that you look at
and you're like, oh, they nailed it.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I see brains like that all day every day. Really, Yes,
notable and unknotable.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Yeah, and I mean I look at so so much
in Sprange, like we're constantly creating moon boards, both based
on actual business and history and a lot of other
influencer like art, architecture, landscape, Like there's a lot of
ways that we can move forward.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
When you're looking at and you're considering something as a
good design, what's making it a good design?
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Cohesion? That's the first word that comes to mind. Everything
feels like it's in harmony and supports the same story.
So going back to the storytelling or like the narrative approach,
does it feel like everything is congruent in a way
that supports the message that they're trying or you know,
whatever it is that they're offering a sort of product
(40:26):
that they're trying to get out.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
What and like some cohesion in the sense of like
how my like how my eyes are flowing through looking
at it?
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Like is it cohesion in composition on like where things
are placed?
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Like what do you mean by cohesion?
Speaker 3 (40:45):
I think it's both and but in the masses, when
when people think of branding or like oh I really
like this brand, what immediately comes to mind is their logo, right,
like yeah, Starbucks, the Little Mermaid Girl. Notice Donald's m
like you think about this singular yeah, element really, But
(41:08):
when I'm what I'm speaking about in terms of cohesion
is it's kind of like an entire asset library that
supports this identity from a visual perspective. So the colors,
the illustrations, any patterns, the typography, the layout, how are
(41:28):
you aligning in a grid format or not a grid
format or Yeah, there's a lot of nuance that I
think is very intentional but goes unnoticed with I think
it's good that it goes unnoticed because if it were,
people are like, yeah, like there's a lot going on here.
But it's just subtlety and that's the beauty in it.
(41:49):
So when I speak about cohesion, I'm speaking about how
all of that entire library has been supported and that
it all works so well together. And I and maybe
to your earlier question on things that I am having
a hard time getting rid of or going away from,
and this is something that I can honestly admit, like
(42:10):
I love incorporating illustration for reasons that I you know,
I'm an artist by nature, but I like incorporating illustration
into branding and oftentimes and some brands don't need it,
you know, like if you're a big tech company or whatever,
like an industry that doesn't really rely on.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
A drawing or a picture, right something.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
But to me, like that it helps, especially for what
are called spot illustrations, which is essentially like a scene
like it would be like us, yeah, versus like an
icon of like a plant, right, Like that does so
much in painting a picture and capturing a concept, and
oftentimes it can be a really great place to be
(42:57):
like tongue in cheek or like playful, I can invite
personality into a brand.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah so that I so.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
But now you're noticing like that everybody wants like a picture.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
In the way.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Yeah, okay, you know, not everyone and not everyone needs it.
But I think that there are also it's kind of
trending toward moving away from illustration for one reason or
you know thingsho, But I really like them. I think
that they serve a big purpose, especially if you have
(43:28):
a complex a complex business or like a complex idea
that you're trying to communicate or that you're trying to
emphasize personality and playfulness. There's I think there's always a
space for it.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, I will not let my illustration scales. Damn it.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Okay, what do you say that design?
Speaker 1 (43:51):
If there are any transferable skills have taught you about life
in general too?
Speaker 3 (44:02):
People need to pay people to design restaurant menus, please
please on the baseline, Oh lord, the times that Yeah,
I don't know, I don't know, like any majority of
like Mexican restaurants.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, like clothes in charge. Because it's very overwhelming. I
have questions I have, Please just talk to manage it.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
But I think, in all seriousness, I think there's so
much about design that is translatable in other areas of
my life, just interpersonally, communication level listening, paying attention to
the details, and having a gratitude as you walk about
your day for spaces that have been intentionally created for
(44:49):
you to have an experience. So like thinking about throughout
the rest of your day, if you go to a
coffee shop, if you go to pick up your daughter
from school, Like every single physical space or brand that
you come into contact with has been intentionally crafted, whether
it was conscious or unconscious. Like I'm thinking about my
(45:10):
daughter's montessory, like I'll hitch up, but like, but you know,
like it And that's really what I see an opportunity. Yeah, man,
like this you could your branding could be so supportive
of what I know to be true based.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
On my personal experience. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
So having it's almost like creating like a different lens
throughout my day because of the industry that I operate in,
Like flagging.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
My husband hail joke like about the menus.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
He's like, we can't go into any restaurant because you're
just gonna complain or notice this about this menu.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
But yeah, I think having an appreciation for someone out
there behind a computer or behind a sketch pad has
made this space for you, Yeah, and hopes that you
would be a patron here in hopes that you would
find enjoyment or make a purchase or support their business,
(46:09):
whether that's huge corporate companies like Starbucks or a mom
and pop coffee shop. Like it's yeah, it's all with
the hope of you. And something about that is very like, wow,
you know it's nice, Like it creates more like of
a mindfulness and a gratitude. Yeah, go throughout my day.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
I love that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Last question I want to ask is how do you
plan to design the life that you want?
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Great question with meaning I think with meaning, that's that's
the only answer that I can have, supporting.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
A life that is not confined by limitation or doubt
and myself or the people around me relying back on
to why I even started my business. That naivity a bit,
But I think there's something to be said about feeling
(47:12):
like you're in control and less on. You know, there's
stuff that will go wrong in your life, like things
that you cannot control, But what I mean is rather
supporting your own autonomy.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
And I always encourage anyone.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Entrepreneurship or even if you plan to maintain a corporate
nine to five, you love where you're at or wherever
you're at in your space. There's something so empowering, particularly
as women, in being the arbiter of your financial success
and like having an ability to acquire money and the
(47:52):
possibility to acquire wealth and however you define that for yourself,
knowing that you have an ability, talent, skills, God given
and otherwise to control that. And I think that there's
so much independence that supported and beauty and in that
(48:13):
realization of like, wow, like I no one else, No,
I'm not reliant, and I'm not I'm not reliant and
I have. It's it's all within me essentially.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
I love that, Andy Dunn, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
This is This has been a great discussion.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
I have learned so much from this conversation, so much
from you, and you're.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Didn't just continue to be a rock star. Thanks for
coming on, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Nope, this is good.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
So right now I am laughing and talking and smiling
from ear to ear because I have the pleasure in
the honor of having someone on the show today here
finding your niece with niche, who has essentially done just that.
She has found her niche and she is a branding
strategist and an expert, enthusiast professional in terms of design.
(00:28):
I'm so happy to have you on the show. Welcome,
Andy Dunn.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
How are you feeling nervous? But I'm great, happy to
be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yes, very good. I'm excited to have you on.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Actually, I've gotten the chance to know you over the
past couple of months in general as just like a person,
and I am like, well, before I've actually got to
get to know you for real, I was just like
already obsessed with you and your design skills and your
Instagram and your writing. So I am like, wow, I'm
forging a friendship with someone who I already kind of
(01:05):
admired and adored, and so it's been nice to kind
of cultivate this relationship with you and learn a little
bit more about who you are and the incredible work
you guys do at honey, creative. So I do want
to start off, but we're you going to say it's.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Going to say, well, thanks, Yeah, I feel like I
should interject me, like, those are all nice things about
me that he said.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I did want to.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Start off by kind of talking a little bit about
the inception of you wanting to even get into that
creative space.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Where that started from.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Was there an isolated moment in your upbringing and your
childhood where you kind of realized, Okay, I really care
about cultivating and honoring my creativity and I want to
do something with it.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I think from an early age, I've always known that
I was the weird art kid. I would carry around
my sketchbook everywhere. The top thing on my Christmas list
was always a rose art set or.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Coloring pencils, you name it.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
It was just that kid that was very into any
and all types of art, and it shaped a lot
of my interest in culture as well. I got really
into more fine art as I into like high school
and into college, wanting to study more like Italian art
and art history.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, but I had a lot of.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Fear associated with monetizing fine art, like actually doing commission
type work and being a painter.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Or yeah, a drawer.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I'mist an artist being an artist, that's what they're in
a formal capacity. I think that put a lot of
pressure on something that I had always thought of as
an expression of myself and.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Not wanting to take that away.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
And as social media became more and more introduced into
my process, I noticed a sense in myself of performance okay,
and starting to create to post like oh, let me yeah,
let me draw this amazing realistic blah blah blah, to
see how many likes.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
It was when that started to take shape that I'm like,
I should probably pivot a bit and still utilize my
interest in a way that feels valuable and yeah, and
authentic to who I am, but not in a way
that feels as icky.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
When you know, when you were younger, Carrie walking around
with your sketchulking stuff, what kind of things like if
I were to take a look at it right now today,
like what kind of things were you drawing back then?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
A lot of it was just in my surroundings.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
So I was like, or I used to love to
recreate illustrations from children's books. Do you remember the Little
Critter series?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Little that sounds so familiar.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh my god, that sounds so familiar, Like does he
kind of have like crazy hair?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Like yeah, okay, that sounds.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
It's like a series or like the Burns Barrier. Yeah,
I would redraw all of those or huh Lisa Frank definitely, Yeah,
a chapter like dolphins only, Yeah, exclusively dolphins for a
hot minute.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Mine was less like intricate than that.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I would just I guess I don't know where I learned,
but I learned how to draw a girl from the
back wearing a bathing suit or the back and then
the bottoms like went up her butt and then there's
like the.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Coppa sky Yeah, there's like a skyline and then the sunset,
and I just like kept drawing, so you could find
like at least twelve pictures of the back of this
girl's booty and she's like at the beach and I
just kept drawing there.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And I would also draw like.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
The little I don't know if it's like a Superman
S with a little point on the top.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
What is that smile? Like you would draw the S
and then right smile yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And so that was kind of like my version of
drawing but for you that sounds a lot like more
intricate and more observing of the atmosphere.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Where did that come from?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I was kind of a quiet or reserved kid. You
would have to get to know me more for my
personality to come out or for me to feel terrible
and confident. And I think in seeing a lot of
beauty in the quiet we had like a garden growing up,
(05:25):
we're outside tons grow up far far out in the country,
and it was just something to.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Notice the details.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yeah, that was constantly what I was obsessed with, how
the shadows looked it and visualizing items even when I
wasn't drawing or painting. How would this translate to paper?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Like what?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
And I still carry that even throughout my day, like
how which is ironic because I'm tear what during my
own makeup? But like how are shadows like on your face?
Or like how could this? How could this translate into
a different format? And so that was always intriguing to me,
I think, and that's why I was really I did
(06:07):
mostly realism, so like I would just draw what I saw,
or like I would spend weeks and weeks on like
one particular a lot of animals, like one particular subject
or would do. And as people as I got a
little bit older, like into teenagers, some people would commission
for like dogs and yeah, you know, like different types
(06:28):
of subjects. People would ask to draw murals or like
different And I.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Was going to ask you that too, Like at what point,
because I feel like that's when you start to really
start feeling yourself or you can even consider yourself to
be an artist. Is when other people are like, hey,
can you draw this for me? Or that looks amazing?
Was there a point in time where you can recognize
kind of that shift in your work where people were like, Okay,
I want you to draw me this now. Was there
(06:54):
a time that you can recall like when that started
to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I'm laughing because I'm thinking second grade miss Field class
drawing bubble letters of my name. A kid comes up
as like, hey, i'll pay you so.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
That I mean for bubble letter for bubble letters.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, so really we could attribute my entrepreneurial journey all
the way back.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Okay, okay, shout out to this fait. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
But and honestly, I think as I started to get
closer and closer to college and people were reaching out
specifically about mural work, and I didn't really like I
don't like that so much as a canvas. It's it's
hard for me to like draw upright for whatever reason. Yeah,
(07:36):
but that just felt more pressure to create something that's
going to be in someone's house or like place of business.
And that's when I started to feel more anxiety or
like more realization. Yeah, I think that I need to
find something more fitting for myself that is an expression
(07:58):
of creativity but is different. And as I started to
enter into college and contemplating what that could look like
as far as a career is concerned, advertising was an
obvious next route, but that I kept changing to myself,
I don't want to just sell shit to people who
don't want to just sell things for the sake of selling.
(08:18):
That also didn't feel great well fully aligned with what
I wanted or what I believed in. And but I
think I always had this spirit of working for myself
and being an entrepreneur. And I laughed that I'm always
fascinated by my friend's corporate gossip because I have no.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Concept for a lot of Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, from college, I immediately jumped into entrepreneurship. There there
was never anything now really, Yeah, I didn't do so.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
You didn't work for a firm or like an agency.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
No, I didn't do any internships. I had a short
interim like student transition physician from college about six months
after I graduated. But yeah, I was there that I
was like, yeah, like, oh, while I'm doing this in
this space, like I could do this for myself and wow.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Never But you don't come from like your background in
your family. There's not a lot of entrepreneurs in your family.
So I wonder what made you subscribe to that new
way of thinking.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Defiance like stubbornness. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I do think it was. It's a bit of both.
Like I think stubbornness can be seen as a positive.
And I had this very staunch belief in myself that
there was no other alternative, there was no other way
that I wanted. And not to say that I immediately found
success and was making six figures the.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
First here right right, you can check tax.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Or seats for that, because that was not But I
just felt very compelled that I could do more for
more people if I were doing it for myself.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That I love that transition, and I think that ownership
over your future my husband. He says a quote, not
Karen who it's from, but he says, the best way
to know your future is to create it. And I
think that's huge because a lot of times, a lot
of people don't have that same, you know, concept for
philosophy about how to live their life. They think that
(10:21):
they're kind of just subject to what happens to them,
and they don't know that there's opportunity for them to
kind of take control of their own life and create
a future for themselves that they could never even imagine
or envision. And so for you taking that kind of
initial first step of saying I'm going to work for myself,
I'm going to create something out of nothing, is that war, honey,
(10:43):
creative was born or Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So in that sort of student position, I worked for
kind of like an in house agency of sorts, okay,
on campus for department. So we worked for the College
of Arts and Sciences. We were called the Hives. Oh
and myself a web developer, coworker, and a videographer.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
We were just shooting the shit, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Lunch, like, why don't we start something, like we should
start doing this independently?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, ourselves. We kind of got wored of like.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Wow, so and so is charting and how much it
Now We're like, we could totally do that. The appeal
and the shiny object of the grass is always greener
on the other side. Sure, And I remember vividly, like
I remember the day that we chose the name. We
were all kind of sitting in a circle. Our creative
director was just helping us id eight names, and they
were just sounding insane, just saying random words out loud,
(11:41):
of like you're about jelly, what about like just whatever,
like the most random things, and trying to think about
really successful businesses that were like made up names. We
have something like Google, I mean everyone old things they
have to have some hodgepodge crazy name. And it was
like a light bulb moment when we're like, well, we're
(12:03):
an evolution of the hive. We are a product of
the hive. We started here. What's the product of the hives? Honey?
And we kept saying it over and over and over again, honey,
honey for loney.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Like just didn't terrific and you shall not.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
We're like to try to say honey with a mad face,
like yeah, honey, like you can't, you can't always it's
a pleasant word to say. It sounds nice, it's something
that tastes great.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yes, and.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It felt like such a great fit. So that's kind
of where it started. I don't even remember our first project,
but the idea was that we would kind of start
our own agency and begin to work with people like
networking people that I'm knew within the area or and
that we had kind of came into contact with from
(12:52):
class or whatever.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
And it was like a year or so into it
that my partners had the come to Jesus of maybe
entrepreneurship is it is a person for me that cut
out for it. Yeah. And and really we were so
naive and that was probably a blessing in disguise because
I had no idea what the weight of entrepreneurship actually
(13:17):
was at that time, and I didn't have time to
stress about it. I didn't have a mortgage, I didn't
have child or yeah, and their responsibilities. So if it failed,
it was okay, great, that was a nice shot. Did
jobby job and that'll be fine. But uh, in the moment,
(13:37):
it was just why not. That's kind of the that's
the inception.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Wow, I love that, and you stuck with it.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, here we are yep, so ten ten years later
as of June of this past year.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I'm curious to know too, Like I said, like, I've
looked at your Instagram and stuff, and I really like
how you see things, and I'm curious to know. If
someone were to ask you, like your definition of design,
what is design to you?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
The immediate answer that came to mind was storytelling. I
think design, particularly brand design, is storytelling by nature.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
A lot of people would probably respond.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
With design should be simple and very nuanced and less
is more. And while all of that is true, I
do think ultimately any brand that you come into contact with,
any design, anything that you choose for your house, it
is a reflection of other choices that have been made
(14:46):
and supports an experience. It supports a physical experience as
you walk into a space, an experience around a service
that you hired a business for, or even your experience
shopping online. It doesn't necessarily have to be be a
service or a physical space. It is reflective of an experience,
which in turn is story. Like you're you're having stories,
(15:10):
You're creating memories around an experience.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, I want to and I kind of want to
unpack out a little bit what you're saying, because I
think there's a certain approach that you have or that
you take in terms of how do you perceive the
story that's being told for you in your business and
in your expertise, Like, I guess what are the steps
in terms of like how do I even go about
(15:35):
like creating that story through design? Like what are the
specific things that I need to be mindful of or
look for or ask questions about? Like what would be
your advice in terms of someone who's like, Okay, I
want to get better at design. I want to get
better at my approach to design. What is something that
you do that helps to kind of like create your
(15:56):
process to ensure that that storytelling is being told.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I think even beyond design, Like if someone more interested
in how do I get better with my own business
or communicating or end mass, And I think it starts
with listening, and it starts with allowing people the space
and the time to be able to share their story
and how to capture that and translated individual way that
(16:23):
can then support someone else's experience with how they feel
about it. So that's personal questions around just like you
he asked me here, how did you get started why,
like what is your background?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
What does it mean to you?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And then being able to pull at threads and create
an ecosystem of the experience in using my expertise as well. So, yeah,
is there historical context we can pull from? What are
the people that you're already working with or people already
in your space saying about you? So not just going
directly to the source and hearing from the horse's mouth,
(17:00):
if you will, but yeah, what are people already talking
about that? Because it is it's incredibly hard to talk
about yourself, Like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
It sucks.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Like if someone's ever asked you to write a bio
about yourself, you'd.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Be like in nineteen ninety three, yet I was hard, Like, but.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
That's interesting hard and that approach that you're saying that
you have to design and reminds me a lot for
myself in terms of like communication and interviewing. Is I
always feel like there's a question, but then there's a
question inside of the question. And so when you're mentioning
this aspect of you know, the threads that make something up,
are you able to kind of pinpoint Okay, let's stay
(17:38):
on that a little bit more and kind of pry
to kind of get a little bit more acclimated with
someone's story or go a little bit deeper in ways that.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
They probably hadn't yet explored.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Are you conscious of like when to do that in
terms of timing on, like how to stay on something
so to kind of pull out meaning that will help
you draw that you'll be able to draw from.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Rather in terms of the design, that's a skill.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Okay, I'm constantly refining because reading people and designing are
two very different skill sets to acquire, but they're both
equally is important. But having a self awareness know when
to shut the hell up and allow someone to talk,
(18:23):
and encouragement to notice the subtlety and someone shift in
their gener or in their emotion or the way that
they're telling me something to pick up on.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Hey, I think you kind of got to go into
like therapist mode. I think there's something there.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I can tell the passion kind of rose a little
bit when you said this particular thing or when you
told this story. And so making sure that you, I
guess take mental note on in literal notes of like
those things and incorporating them into the design is kind
of like your approach.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Wow, the process that comes to mind is why, Simon Sinex,
I think that's how you say it's he has this
concept of like why, And so every every time I
hear what always starts as an ask, I need a
new website, I need a new logo, my colors suck,
blah blah blah whatever, whatever their problem is, why why do.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
You feel that way?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Well, so next year, I really want to hit X
business goal or I want to make X amount, or
we're krying to open up a new store, or we're
launching a new product line.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Why. And then in so like a question is why, Yeah,
just why?
Speaker 3 (19:39):
And it almost always correlates to like a personal ration.
And the people that I enjoy working with, yes, say no,
one that we choose to partner with and that choose
to partner with us are just seeking profit for the
sake of profit. They're also passionate, purposeful entrepreneurs that have
gotten into the game speak because they want to do
(20:02):
something good in the world or they believe in whatever
it is that they're doing, which is, yeah, it makes
my job a lot easier because I'm like great here.
Our tagline is like we design cool shit for nice
ass people like.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Nice that's it. So shit the description.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, So most often, whenever you actually dig deeper into
you kind of start with the surface level expectation of
what we're looking for, which is always deliverable based, and
we provide that, right, Like practically we provide logo files,
we provide websites. But what's the feeling and the emotion
behind that. Well, they're really embarrassed, like I don't want
(20:37):
to share my website to potential clients. Okay, why are
you feeling that way? Well, I have this really audacious
goal that I'm kind of scared to share, but I
really want to hit Yeah, and why do you want
to reach that number? Well, because of X, Like I
want to hire someone, I want to give someone a raise,
(20:57):
or we're trying to recently over the summer, we're trying
to have a baby, and we want to have an
operation and a business that supports us as parents. Yeah,
to step away, Like it's almost always something that is
deeper connected, and that's really the ecosystem, Like how can I.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Support Yeah, they real Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Like an identity that does it justice, yeah, and that
they can confidently fall back on.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I think it's interesting too in terms of like just
speaking about art. I have friends and stuff that are
like in the fashion space and their stylus. And I
have a friend in particular who I know, and she
says that, like when she's getting ready to pick out
an outphit she it depends on the day, but sometimes
she'll work her way down up, so she'll start with
(21:46):
just like a pair of shoes, and then she'll kind
of sculpt the outfit around the pair of shoes. Or
if she sees like I want to wear this hat, now,
how can I build around this hat?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
For you?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
In design, is it one thing that comes before the
other or in your process in terms of like creating
something from scratch, do you have a system that you
stick to or is it kind of fluid?
Speaker 1 (22:10):
What's your approach? It's kind of twofold.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
So on more of the strategic storytelling side to get
at what I need to communicate or tell that it
always starts with pulling or serving their current audience and
people that they have in their sphere, so key stakeholders,
people that have known and loved them since their inception. Okay,
(22:35):
getting curious about why why do they support them? What
do they love about them? Because that will tell me
so much more than one singular conversation with the business
owner or unfortunately, what's really common in our industry, one
questionnaire that the business owner is going to sit down
and submit, or maybe not the business owner, maybe it's
someone else that they've offloaded this task because it feels
(22:55):
just like that a chore. Yeah, So we try to
get a full or complete picture and from that utilizing
most often like adjectives or like what can we discern
from that data and that qualitative information to translate.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
It into the design.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
But once once it gets into that state, and we're
ready to kind of put mouse to screen, like I
always like thinking, especially now, and this is going to
be so so important from an industry perspective and being
competitive in a space where AI is kind of coming
for your neck? How can I make this analog? So
(23:38):
what about this project can I do handmade? What can
I pull out of the screen? Because that all it
helps support differentiation just from competitors, because no one can
work with their hands like I do or like my
team does. No one will ever recreate this pen to
paper or medium to paper like I can, and likely
(24:01):
none of their competitors are are are doing that from
like a business perspective, So like both design and business
leveraging that as a unique thing. So for example, like
we'll implement like our junior designer is doing marbling right now,
like paper.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's like a traditional Turkish technique.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
We're doing a branding cool for a Mediterranean restaurant in Alfaretta,
So doing a lot of research that came from Okay,
this is the vibe. A ton of the Turkish community
love this particular restaurant because it feels true, authentic. Well
what is true and authentic about Turkish culture. They're really
known for marbling like paper, traditional art marblings.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, ordered all the shit, had it sent? Now, that's
that's becoming marveling away. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, So doing stuff like that, we've done like stamping
freshwork charcoal, so that is and it really makes my
like weird art kid self happy. I'm able to still
capture what I love and when I have loved my
entire life and bring it into a space that feels
relevant and purposeful and meaningful.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Today, And it's so tactical to like get your hands
back moving back in the elements of actually being creative
that physical experience. There's so many things in design that like, Okay,
what matters most?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Is it color? Is it fun? Is it?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You know, aesthetics as a texture. Let's talk about color
for a little bit. What's your philosophy and your relationship
with color? In terms of design, color.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Is an interesting one because it has translated and shifted
so much from where even like ten twenty years ago,
if you would, or like really in the start of
my business and thinking about color applications, so many more
people are experiencing a brand through the digital space and
(26:01):
more specifically on their phone than ever before. So previously
I would say, color, of course has a massive implication
to the overall aesthetic of any space, even this room,
the walls are painted like that provides a certain vibe.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
A certainel an emotion.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
But now it is I try to approach color from
a lens of accessibility, and how can the designs that
I'm creating translate fluidly from a giant max screen with
physical in person signage all the way down into someone's
tiny phone and utilizing kind of standard accessibility practices. For contrast,
(26:48):
this has become more of an integral part part of
how we contemplate and think about color and use it.
So that way not only on a baseline just for
inclusivity practices, but just from like your girl be getting
old and my eyes hurt and I can't like I
don't want to zoom in on stuff, you know, Yeah,
(27:08):
and I'm noticing that about myself, but even like other
people from their devices, Like it's.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, And that's interesting too because when I think about color,
and this is like I need someone like you in
my life.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
But how do you like the basic colors?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Like when you think about branding now, like you have
those core colors that you were taught that like stand
out and pop. In terms of like marketing, I guess,
how do you allow someone to still feel like they
can take a chance on kind of like going outside
of those traditional blue, red, yellow walls of color, but
(27:45):
still feel like they can be recognizable, noticeable, and distinguished
essentially within their brand with trying and exploring colors outside
of those traditional marketing ones.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
We kind of do a like a double sided perspective
from like we want to know what your competitors look
like so that in your if someone your client, your customer, whoever,
has I always think about like at your chrome tab,
if you've got six chrumb tabs open for each of
your competitors. Yes, and they're clicking between all of their
(28:21):
websites or they're looking across all their social media profiles
and you all have the exact same color.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I got questions.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yeah, And it creates this saneness in your mind where
nothing really stands out anymore. It makes me think of
when we went house shopping, Like you go to a
million open houses, then every single one looks the same
same way, but we chose a house that has a
pink door. It stood out in our minds, like we're like, oh, yeah,
the one with the pink doors.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Challenging clients to think about color in a way that
provides them an opportunity to stand out and has an
ability to influence before someone one walks into your physical
door metaphysical door yeah, online or before they're really formally
introduced to your plan. So like there's some there's jury's
(29:12):
kind of still out about like this, the actual credibility
of color psychology, But there is true science behind we
as humans and we as people associate different colors with
even outside of any businesses or brands. If I ask
you what color Starbucks was.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I'm gonna say green. World. Maybe what color is McDonald's yellow?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Right, So there we have like these preset contextualize ideas
and associations just based on how we operate as consumers,
but how we observe and interact in nature.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
So when you think of of nature, what color trees?
Green and right?
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Yeah, green, brown, grown?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
When you think of calm, peaceful, yeah, the ocean, right, water,
sky like those are those are kind of tried and
true methods and practices that a lot of people don't
have an awareness of. Or like, uh, emergency vehicles and
the most always they're painted with some shade of red.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, So it's alert awareness.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
And there's a lot of power as well in historical
context through color usage and how they've came to be
beyond just your primary colors, like mixing colors. So like
purple was previously this very gate kept color that was
reserved for those in royalty because it was expensive to create,
like the actual pigment. Pigment was expensive to create, so
(30:42):
it was not for the layman and so and that's
why we think of it like, yeah, when you think
of like prime royal, like anything purple, Yeah, it's all purple.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Right, Well, that was and now then on now I'm
about to go down a warm world because now I'm
so confused now and even saying how color is even made,
Like I don't think I've ever even heard anyone say
that out loud, like those words in that order.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, so what is that? Like?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Explain that to me for somebody who's listening, and they're
just like, oh, you're saying purples are difficult to make?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I mean, now it's different, right, like the practice of
making color. I've just went to Benjamin war this morning
for my bathroom color. Like it's oppressed to the button.
They're shaking up the shit and yeah, you're out the door.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
And I need to figure out who's how much you
get paid to even come up with paint names?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Like who's the police person hired? Who are the people
you come up with the news OPI Crayola hit me up?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Because I want to be the person that that was
actually my like senior yearbook. It's like I want to
be the person that comes up with the name. Really,
and now I kind of do because I just like
make up names for.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Clients, yeah all the time.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Yeah, but before you need about like actual pigmenting or
die even now like for for fabric your friend friend
that's in fashion and it's there was like a myriad
of processes depending on where you're at in the world
of how to actually create and pool color.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
So like, wow, was a snail mucus like this, like
purple snail. I swear this snail had purple tone.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
So they would extract the mucus and I don't know
how like you squeeze it.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
I don't know, like Gary, the.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Snail just walks by and you get the slug trail
of the those but you know, like a lot of plants,
like kind of natural herbalism was kind of the inception
of of extracting pigment to create textiles, to create me,
to create like any really any observable color in your world.
(32:43):
And now it's evolved. But I think now it's even
more interesting because we have different color spaces. So there's
the web space, which is actually wider, broader. You're able
to get easier access to fluorescence because of the actual
operating system of your computer, not to.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Get like over.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Like the pixels that are that are on your screen
a wider range of color value than what's possible to print.
So it's just it's a different color mode. That's why,
Like something like you can get like a fluorescent highlighter color, yeah,
easier if you were to try to print it on
like your home computer, right Like so and that to
(33:27):
me is really interesting as well because those are considerations
that we have to think about for our clients. So
like how how will they utilize color in their brand?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Is in do they have a physical space? Are they
only online? Yeah? What can we keep top of mind?
Speaker 3 (33:45):
And sometimes it informs flexibility right Like if they're only online, great, cool,
floor it up. But if we have to think about, uh,
are they going to be printing flyers from their epsom
that home much struggle blessing with their ink all the time.
What do we have to be mindful of so that
it is as translatable once we signed, sealed deliver the files.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I think that's interesting. I'm curious to know for you
are there colors that you find yourself like having favoritism
over than others, Like when you're you know, getting getting
into the cusp and the like, really you know, rolling
up your sleeves, getting into the design in general, just
maybe four point outside of a point are there colors
that you favor over others?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And why.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I tend to favor color in general, Like, I think
there's a common trend right now that's like minimalism and
like creams.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
And blacks and white.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yeah, and I think that there's so much power in
utilizing color for attention grabbing. I'm obviously biased towards yellow
because my brain uses yellow. But it's like a very
optimistic color.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
It does all.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
It just presents some challenges for accessibility, right, Like it's
can be difficult to marry. But yeah, overall, I try
to approach the color conversation with clients in a challenging way,
and that supports our survey results, right, Like, so if
people of yoga studio we just work with calming, peaceful, serene, quiet,
(35:18):
how can we support those adjectives through color?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah? I love that. I think too. You may be
know you are?
Speaker 2 (35:27):
You definitely are the only person that I've ever heard
of there we go, the only person that I've ever
heard that they spente hundreds of dollars on access to
a font.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Why, Okay, this is this is a great educational to
the vest's opportunity. Because font licenses can be expensive. They
for premium what I would consider premium fonts. And that's
not to say that there aren't great free ones that
are available on Google Fonts or even like system Helbetica
(36:03):
is used and yeah everywhere all over the place.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Designing fonts is just as challenging and just as much
as an art and as brain design. There are people
who only they have entire foundries, as they're called of typography,
and they have refined their craft. They've also done exactly
what I've talked about historical references. Like one designer that
(36:30):
comes to mind, his name's tray Seals. He creates fonts
based on protest signage, so all of them have specific
lineage and historical context to suffrage movement where some rights
were and that influence is really powerful, right, Like you're
taking back an opportunity in a moment in time, Yeah,
and repurposing them in today's applications. So I will happily
(36:55):
pay a lot of hundreds and dollars for fonts because
I truly believe that they're there's craft in that, and
yeah there are, and you can get some real real hokey,
crappy thoughts, yeah, that have like weird spacing or like
the apostrophe doesn't exist.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
That he's actually happened.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, the question mark or multilingual support isn't there? So
thinking about all the different types of letterforms and characters
that would be necessary to translate any page, like into
Spanish or into Arabic. Yeah, any any sort of like Chinese, Japan.
Like there, there's a multitude of reasons why someone would
(37:35):
want to invest and for differentiation, Like I said, if
at oftentimes like Airbnb, Starbucks, all these big, big corporate
companies pay a specific designer or more often they're like
within the actual agency, like these big agencies that they're
hiring to create a singular typeface only for them.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, And that's interesting that you say that too, now,
because if I think about it in my head, I don't.
I mean, there might be similar fonts that you know,
look similar in nature, but it's still not like to
a team. But I didn't even think about it that
way for those big name companies, like actually securing a
particular font in terms of design, Like is there anything
(38:17):
that has taken you a while to outgrow in design
that you still do or that not that you still do,
but like it's taking you like something in aspect of
design that you like, kept doing, kept doing, and then
it's like, okay, I need to like this isn't like
a trend. Yeah, like this isn't a trend anymore, Like
(38:37):
but you were still kind of holding on to doing
it because it.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Worked for you or you liked it. That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Gradients really had a choke hold for a minute on me.
I really liked gradient usage.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
But it is, it's it. It sucks to print.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
If you can imagine like the banding that's possible in print,
like you get those stripes any sort of if you're
trying to go from one color to another, Yeah, that
can be. That can be difficult.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
But yeah, I was rady. I was really, And I
mean I'm sure you had.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
You probably saw quite a few like yeah, they were really.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
They were trending for for a little bit.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
I think from the outside looking in for somebody who's
technically not in design. But I admire it and I
respect it when I see a good design. Are there
brands to you that you were that you look at
and you're like, oh, they nailed it.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I see brains like that all day every day. Really, Yes,
notable and unknotable.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Yeah, and I mean I look at so so much
in Sprange, like we're constantly creating moon boards, both based
on actual business and history and a lot of other
influencer like art, architecture, landscape, Like there's a lot of
ways that we can move forward.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
When you're looking at and you're considering something as a
good design, what's making it a good design?
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Cohesion? That's the first word that comes to mind. Everything
feels like it's in harmony and supports the same story.
So going back to the storytelling or like the narrative approach,
does it feel like everything is congruent in a way
that supports the message that they're trying or you know,
whatever it is that they're offering a sort of product
(40:26):
that they're trying to get out.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
What and like some cohesion in the sense of like
how my like how my eyes are flowing through looking
at it?
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Like is it cohesion in composition on like where things
are placed?
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Like what do you mean by cohesion?
Speaker 3 (40:45):
I think it's both and but in the masses, when
when people think of branding or like oh I really
like this brand, what immediately comes to mind is their logo, right,
like yeah, Starbucks, the Little Mermaid Girl. Notice Donald's m
like you think about this singular yeah, element really, But
(41:08):
when I'm what I'm speaking about in terms of cohesion
is it's kind of like an entire asset library that
supports this identity from a visual perspective. So the colors,
the illustrations, any patterns, the typography, the layout, how are
(41:28):
you aligning in a grid format or not a grid
format or Yeah, there's a lot of nuance that I
think is very intentional but goes unnoticed with I think
it's good that it goes unnoticed because if it were,
people are like, yeah, like there's a lot going on here.
But it's just subtlety and that's the beauty in it.
(41:49):
So when I speak about cohesion, I'm speaking about how
all of that entire library has been supported and that
it all works so well together. And I and maybe
to your earlier question on things that I am having
a hard time getting rid of or going away from,
and this is something that I can honestly admit, like
(42:10):
I love incorporating illustration for reasons that I you know,
I'm an artist by nature, but I like incorporating illustration
into branding and oftentimes and some brands don't need it,
you know, like if you're a big tech company or whatever,
like an industry that doesn't really rely on.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
A drawing or a picture, right something.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
But to me, like that it helps, especially for what
are called spot illustrations, which is essentially like a scene
like it would be like us, yeah, versus like an
icon of like a plant, right, Like that does so
much in painting a picture and capturing a concept, and
oftentimes it can be a really great place to be
(42:57):
like tongue in cheek or like playful, I can invite
personality into a brand.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah so that I so.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
But now you're noticing like that everybody wants like a picture.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
In the way.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Yeah, okay, you know, not everyone and not everyone needs it.
But I think that there are also it's kind of
trending toward moving away from illustration for one reason or
you know thingsho, But I really like them. I think
that they serve a big purpose, especially if you have
(43:28):
a complex a complex business or like a complex idea
that you're trying to communicate or that you're trying to
emphasize personality and playfulness. There's I think there's always a
space for it.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, I will not let my illustration scales. Damn it.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Okay, what do you say that design?
Speaker 1 (43:51):
If there are any transferable skills have taught you about life
in general too?
Speaker 3 (44:02):
People need to pay people to design restaurant menus, please
please on the baseline, Oh lord, the times that Yeah,
I don't know, I don't know, like any majority of
like Mexican restaurants.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, like clothes in charge. Because it's very overwhelming. I
have questions I have, Please just talk to manage it.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
But I think, in all seriousness, I think there's so
much about design that is translatable in other areas of
my life, just interpersonally, communication level listening, paying attention to
the details, and having a gratitude as you walk about
your day for spaces that have been intentionally created for
(44:49):
you to have an experience. So like thinking about throughout
the rest of your day, if you go to a
coffee shop, if you go to pick up your daughter
from school, Like every single physical space or brand that
you come into contact with has been intentionally crafted, whether
it was conscious or unconscious. Like I'm thinking about my
(45:10):
daughter's montessory, like I'll hitch up, but like, but you know,
like it And that's really what I see an opportunity. Yeah, man,
like this you could your branding could be so supportive
of what I know to be true based.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
On my personal experience. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
So having it's almost like creating like a different lens
throughout my day because of the industry that I operate in,
Like flagging.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
My husband hail joke like about the menus.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
He's like, we can't go into any restaurant because you're
just gonna complain or notice this about this menu.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
But yeah, I think having an appreciation for someone out
there behind a computer or behind a sketch pad has
made this space for you, Yeah, and hopes that you
would be a patron here in hopes that you would
find enjoyment or make a purchase or support their business,
(46:09):
whether that's huge corporate companies like Starbucks or a mom
and pop coffee shop. Like it's yeah, it's all with
the hope of you. And something about that is very like, wow,
you know it's nice, Like it creates more like of
a mindfulness and a gratitude. Yeah, go throughout my day.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
I love that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Last question I want to ask is how do you
plan to design the life that you want?
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Great question with meaning I think with meaning, that's that's
the only answer that I can have, supporting.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
A life that is not confined by limitation or doubt
and myself or the people around me relying back on
to why I even started my business. That naivity a bit,
But I think there's something to be said about feeling
(47:12):
like you're in control and less on. You know, there's
stuff that will go wrong in your life, like things
that you cannot control, But what I mean is rather
supporting your own autonomy.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
And I always encourage anyone.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Entrepreneurship or even if you plan to maintain a corporate
nine to five, you love where you're at or wherever
you're at in your space. There's something so empowering, particularly
as women, in being the arbiter of your financial success
and like having an ability to acquire money and the
(47:52):
possibility to acquire wealth and however you define that for yourself,
knowing that you have an ability, talent, skills, God given
and otherwise to control that. And I think that there's
so much independence that supported and beauty and in that
(48:13):
realization of like, wow, like I no one else, No,
I'm not reliant, and I'm not I'm not reliant and
I have. It's it's all within me essentially.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
I love that, Andy Dunn, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
This is This has been a great discussion.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
I have learned so much from this conversation, so much
from you, and you're.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Didn't just continue to be a rock star. Thanks for
coming on, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
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