5PM54: WCAP's Ryan Epps and a Final X Greco-Roman Preview

Ryan Epps returned from Basic Training after joining the U.S. Army to compete for its World Class Athlete Program and then he found himself winning the World Team Trials Challenge Tournament. Epps will face Spencer Woods at 82kg at Final X.

Epps was a three-time All-American and two-time NCAA Division III champion at powerhouse Augsburg University.

The show will break down the weights at Final X in The Classic Style. Welcome back!


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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I'm Jason Bryant from the Short TimeWrestling podcast and founder of the Matt Talk
podcast Network. Shows on the networkare individually owned and operated, and those
opinions presented and expressed may not reflectothers, the sponsors, patrons, or
the parent network. Find more showsabout the greatest sport in the world at
the Matt Talk Podcast Network at mattTalk online dot com. For our model

(00:21):
Stop Worrying about Stupid Procedures and newbook Big Sporting about Baking self get treat.
Why are we added this podcast andwanted to call it the five Point
Move. I'm frustrated with the whereour grecord by seeing I stay for true
because we're our food, offleets,our foot, human beings all but Drona

(00:42):
went. We've got a helpful jocast. What I want people know me from
all of our results for everything comesfrom Five Point Move. Hello and welcome
to episode fifty four up to fivePoint Move podcast. Um Tim Hans found
Dancing, your editor of five pointMove dot com and again, Hello,

(01:03):
greetings, how are you? Ithas been a while. I think the
last place we left off was October, so yeah, some months in between
and now here we are and yeah, we got only one topic. Really
well, we have a guest,right, and that is Ryan Epps,

(01:26):
who will be participating in Final xNORC, and Final x NORC happ has
to be the singular topic of Efifty four. And it's just basically basically,
if I could speak English, justwait by weight, all, uh,
what do we got? We gotten series, right, ten best

(01:47):
of three series, because that's whatFinal X is. That's the World Team
Trials best of three plus we havetrue third bouts to kick the whole thing
off. And true third's important justbecause it's important because it's an opportunity for
these athletes compete and a huge environment, and it's also important because it's national
team. So yeah, we're gonnago through all that. It's basically going
to be stream of consciousness and yeah, that's it. I don't know what

(02:14):
to tell you. I like tojust if I'm going to do this.
I think we did this in twentynineteen, prior to the World Team Trials
Challenge tournament in Raleigh, North Carolina. Same sort of deal here. We're
just gonna run through it, Okay, run through the way classes in this
case the individual series, and I'mlooking forward to talking about it right now

(02:38):
because it's you know, it's FinalX. Final X is the best presentation
of wrestling in the world. Ithink it might be definitely in the United
States. I mean, there's noquestion about it. And I know a
lot of people will probably get indignantand bringing up the NCAA Division One national
tournament and yeah, no, NowFinal X is where it's at for sure.

(03:02):
Um just the the look, youknow, the orchestration of it,
the production value, it's it's it'ssuperior to the Olympic Trials, and the
Olympic Trials have NBC Sports universal ofpowering the whole thing, and now Final

(03:22):
X beats that out in my opinion. And look, I mean some of
us, not all of us,but some of us have seen have you
know, seen what national or teamselection tournaments in other countries look like.
I mean Russia's is you know,Russia does a pretty good job. They
spotlight like, meaning that a lotof years they've had spotlights on the mat

(03:44):
and the stands are absolutely completely mobof people and stuff. But by and
large, the way that other countriesdo their their big domestic tournaments or their
you know, it's not all ofthem. I mean, team selection is
it's almost subjective to even use thatphrase. But it's nothing like what we

(04:06):
have here. I mean Final Xis on a different level, just totally
different level. And yeah, SpencerMango right now it's texting me because Army
has just arrived in the area.And that's that's the key here, ladies

(04:27):
and gentlemen, is that the PrudentialCenter in Nork is about it's less than
ten minutes from where I grew up, So I obviously think it's awesome that
such an event could be here.And I don't know whatever, anyway,
I'm a huge fan of Final Xand it's not and I'm not going to
pretend to have a punk rock attitudeabout it. Final X is awesome.

(04:49):
The only time I wasn't like,totally on board with it or anything like
that was in twenty eighteen when Grecowasn't a part of it. But to
be fair, and I don't knowwho might know or remember this, but
Matt lyn Linn, former US nationalteam coach, you know, Olympic World
silver medalist lynlen didn't want to bepart of Final X, if only because

(05:16):
it gave first off. The oneway he looked at it and I agreed
totally one hundred and ten percent.Was it was an opportunity for Greco to
have its own event, like animportant one at that right World Team Trials,
and it's like, hey, wellmaybe there's a shop if you isolate
Greco, there's at least a shotthat, like the Greco athletes kind of

(05:38):
stand apart a little bit more.And the only reason why that, I
mean not the only, but onebig reason why that kind of sort of
backfire is because they put the finalsfor the thing on it, like I
don't know, like twelve or oneo'clock in the afternoon Eastern time on a
Friday. And that's just nuts tome. And I know why they did
at least one reason why. AndI'm not to go into all of it

(06:00):
because I don't want to bury anybodytonight, but anyhow, and that was,
Yeah, that was part of itfor Lynland, is that he wanted
Greco to have an opportunity to kindof shine on its own. And you
know, you could all chuckle outthe sides of your mouths and be like,
oh, you know, like wouldit really even have the capability of
doing that. It's like, yeah, it actually would in certain regions of

(06:21):
the country. It certainly would,But I digress. It's not a topic
we need to cover right now.Let's focus on the moment. In the
moment at hand is final x NORCfifty five kilogram series up first, and
that is Brady Koon's versus Dalton Duffield. Very easy, very very easy,
Okay to break this down, nothard. Koons is stubborn and solid in

(06:46):
his position and he owns people withunder hooks. Duffield's more dynamic of the
two. He's more I think appto score multi point from feet. He
hasn't against Kuntz. But it alsobears mentioning that Duffield's only lost the two

(07:08):
guys over the past few years.Koons is one of them. The others
Max nowy parteires where it's at,Partres where it's at, though ultimately Partere
is where it's at. And Iknow, I know, it's just it's
so cliche to say that, becauseyou could say that about every series almost
but that's the key and the reasonwhy Duffield hasn't beaten Koontz yet is because

(07:32):
Kons has turned him and Duffield hasn'treciprocated. And it's really academic in that
regard. Now, I am surethat since the US Open that Duffield has
been working NonStop. I would thinkon trying to defend Brady's lock, which

(07:53):
is substantial, is that all ittakes to not get turned, so that
all it takes her Duffield, Idon't know. I mean it could be.
It's a good start. More thananything else. I just think it
comes down to when you're on thefeet, having to make Brady reset and
move, because if he gets comfortablein his underhooks, he's just going to

(08:18):
own the position. It's what hedoes. He's like Frankenstein that way.
That's how I see it. Bradywrestles a conventional Greco Roman style. Okay,
can he score from the feet?He can kind of score from the
feet, but he doesn't have to. He knows he doesn't have to,
so long as he can keep positionand it's you know, it's a workable

(08:39):
position. He could advance that position, get a passive call. And on
top he's by far and away thebest at fifty five kilograms. I mean
it's not he might he's one ofthe best period between fifty five and sixty.
That's how potent his game is.From top part er, you know
lefty gut. Great, Okay,well no, he goes and switched his

(09:01):
sides and now next thing you know, he's, you know, just rolling
the dice over his right shoulder.He can go either direction, Duffield to
get into this series, to havea shot. He just can't get turned.
He can't get turned. It's noteven about limiting the damage. He
just can't get turned. That's howI see that. Anyway, maybe it

(09:22):
turns out entirely different. I don'tlike to I well, first off,
I mean I don't do predictions.I don't write predictions. I don't talk
about predictions. I'd like to justgo over how I see things sort of
matching up, and you can makeup your own mind which way you think
these uh bass will go, butjust can't get turned to. I think

(09:45):
Brady Koons is just way too strongfrom that position to where like you can
go ahead and think you're going togive up just two on a gut and
live to tell about it. Hedoesn't just get to Brady. He usually
runs the table sixty kilograms. Okay, here's the main event. We all
know it. Eleven matches since twentyeighteen between Dalton Roberts and Nildar halfs off

(10:09):
three best of three series, twoindividual matches. Obviously, if you do
the math, each of their threeseries have gone the distance. Two matches
out of those nine have ended early, both times in Dalton Roberts's favor,
And I went over all this ina Monday piece, I think, but
bears repeating over an hour and changeof match time between them over the course

(10:33):
of their shared history. That's along time. The reason why this is
the main event. And by theway, this is the main event,
you know, I know it's thesecond lightest way class and I know that
we have to go in order.It looks like as far as the bat
order goes. We did a piecea couple of weeks ago twenty eight where

(10:58):
the title of the piece, I'lllet me just pull it up real quick
so I can tell you that definitivelywhich twenty and twenty three Final X matchup
is Greco's main event the first dayor two of the poll. Out of
all ten series, you know,Dalton robertson older half, he's off led.
They were always in the lead,but there were a couple of others

(11:20):
who were sort of in the argumenta little bit. Well, I just
looked and it closed at fifty seven. Nearly fifty seven percent of the vote
went to that one series. Soout of ten fifty seven percent that now
look at, people could vote morethan once, but fifty seven percent basically
of the vote went to robertson half, he's off. So the fan base

(11:41):
understands this, and the reason whyis because their matches are often just completely
suspenseful. There's a styles clash.Dalton Roberts's choppy and he's aggressive. That's
why he's the swarm. He's alsocompletely underrated in transition. He's a transitional
scorer. He can force scores.But what he can also do and likes

(12:05):
to do, is just make youwear him like a coat and then compel
you to do something that makes youvulnerable, and then he's all over it.
Ildar the best technician in the countryat any weight class. Double overhook
City right Saltos pop the hit,double overhooks pop the hit. When we

(12:28):
teach kids in Greco Roman here inthe United States, all the time,
underhook underhook, underhook underhook. Sure, okay, but you could score from
double overs two, as Ildar hasproven, you know, about a million
times since round about two thousand andsix. So why is this a like
a must watch? Why is thisthe main event? Because it's their matches

(12:50):
are they're very unique because they haveto score different ways, and there's the
level of familiar already at this pointthat plays a large, large role in
all of it too. Okay,so it's you get equal parts like a
tactical strategic and you also get freneticviolence. It has to be that way.

(13:15):
There's just too much between them.It's rare to see them. If
you look at their eleven matches,there's not too many moments you can pick
out where it's like there's so muchtentativeness because there can't be tentativeness because both
of them are waiting for the smallest, tiniest, fleeting, fricking window to

(13:35):
pounds. And you know there's amotion involved in all this at this stage
too, and it's a big deal. Their matches are a big deal.
Now, Look, what can yousay? Yes, are there things working
against Eldar potentially? I mean he'sgone into as he's firmly in his thirties
and now I think he's thirty four, thirty four, thirty five, you

(14:01):
know, at lightweight at a lightweight. Does that matter, Yeah, it
kind of matters. L Dar's notHe's a little bit long in the tooth.
He's dealt with a litany and nagginginjuries and so on and so forth
and whatever. But you know,he was behind Dalton by a yeah.

(14:22):
I mean, look it. Youwant to say it wasn't a huge amount
of points, but I mean Daltonwas. I would say, you can
never stay comfortably ahead, but hewas ahead with some with a little distance
in the second period of their USOpen final in April. But in the
drop of the hat, on thedrop of a hat, il Dar goes
and had an arm wallops them andnearly comes away with a pin. I

(14:46):
mean, there's just not enough toreally say about this. Everybody knows.
Everybody and their mother's cousin knows.This is the series. Okay, this
is the series. Only two oftheir matches, like I said, have
ended early. Okay, one ofwhich was in twenty twenty one when Dalton

(15:09):
ended it with really a beautiful liftthrow there. But like either way,
that's an anomaly. They're bouts justdeliver in every conceivable way. And what
you want is that whoever comes awaythe victor that sets him up for a
nice summer to go ahead and prepareto qualify the weight class. This is

(15:33):
the series ladies and gentlemen, inmy opinion, but we'll see how it
shakes out. I just yeah,it's the one I'm looking forward to the
most. I gotta say that.I think, I mean clearly I'm not
alone. But woo anyway, sixtythree sixty three could still the show.
I just got done bloviating about ildarn Dalton sixty three between Xavier Johnson and

(15:56):
Hayden Tuma. You know they're similar, right, They're similar. They're both
explosive, they're both throwers, lifters, a little bit different in body type.
How do you say this? Xavierslonger, right, these taller is
a little longer. I don't knowwhat you described to him as. I

(16:18):
mean, he's not exactly short andstocky, but at the same time,
I don't know thick boned. We'llcall it. Key to the series.
I think is going to be scoresfrom the feet. I think that this
series is decided by who scores fromthe feet. I think they're both going
to have good opportunities to score fromparterre. And I think that if this
goes three matches, which very wellmight. I actually kind of expect it

(16:44):
to. It's going to mean thatat least one of the three matches was
an absolute high scoring shootout. ButI think that the scores from the feet
matter most. Now you can goahead and come up with hypotheticals if there's
a situation when it's match whatever.It doesn't matter if it's one, two
or three and it's midway through thesecond period, one of the two guys

(17:06):
is down by let's say four orfive points, which one of these two
guys has more potential to hit acomeback sort of throw. I would lean
towards Tuma with the home run power. I totally do. I think that
he has a little bit more ofthat from the feet than Xavier does.

(17:27):
I also could picture Xavier trying beforeI could picture Tuma. I just feel
like Tuma would want to make surethat he's set, this position is set,
and everything is sort of textbook,and then go ahead and rip it.
But whereas I think Xavier would myhands can lock here, yep,

(17:49):
where my feet yep? Yeah,this ain't great, but I'm gonna go
for it. I could see Xavierhaving more of that mindset. Fantastic series.
Fantastic series. I mean, ifthis were just a one off,
you'd pay for it. Sixty sevenkilograms Alexancho and Robert Perez the third Okay.
Sancho coming off the US Open wherehe had a bad moment, bizarre

(18:14):
moment against Joel Adams, Cadet worldchampion Joel Adams, who looked sensational last
week in where was it? Ohio? And then what Sancho? Do you
know? He got over it andhe ran through the Trials Challenge Tourman was
only a couple of matches. Bythe way, Chase la Joy had a
really underrated spring that must be saidtoo. But anyhow, Sancho, he's

(18:38):
been in this position before. He'shad to get off the deck and then
refocused. Look at twenty twenty one, comes back from the Olympics, has
to go through the Challenge Tourman,wrestles Omania, loses to Amania, and
what happened the next season Sancho waszeroed back in on the target and he

(19:02):
had a great couple of matches.Would also a nuttered Final X last year,
especially match one. But Sancho hasbeen in this spot before in more
ways than one. He's been inthis spot both you know, coming off
of a not so fantastic moment,and he's also wrestled for World and Olympic
team spots. Perez Perez is,and look, I don't mean to exercise

(19:23):
hyperbole. Perez is the best naturalAmerican Greco Roman wrestler I've ever laid eyes
on. He does so many darnlittle things right. He has just like,
there's a difference between having pressure andpace and being able to combine them
to where it means something. Youcan go ahead and pressure all you want,
but if you're not in danger ofdoing anything, how much does it

(19:45):
matter. Perez has the kind ifI could speak English, which you know
you'd think I could, if Perezhas anything, he has the type of
pressure that is unsettling. I thinkit makes opponents rethink their entry points.
I also would go on to saythat, look, this isn't hit an

(20:11):
age group eligible guy who over thecourse of the past two seasons, and
he hasn't won these matches, butover the course of the past two seasons,
he's pressed some of the best wrestlersin the world. Okay, I
mean last year he lost a decentmatch in Morton Thorson from Norway, who's
a European Championship's gold a few yearsago, just over a couple of months

(20:34):
ago, and Thornmasters. He goesand he loses six to three to World
champions spashing Not from Serbia. Andthen after that he lost four nothing to
twenty seventeen World silver with two's burnattack. I think he lost. He
had four nothing And Okay, he'snot beating these guys, but look he's
Perez wrestles better against these types thanhe almost does Americans, and part of

(20:59):
that is because he's made for it, and the other part is that we
don't know how to officiate in thiscountry. I don't know. Can Perez
make this a series? I thinkhe can make this a series. Do
I think he can turn Sancho?I think that's harder for him. Do
I think Sancho concerned Perez? Yes? I do. But look, if
this isn't Perez's year, I mean, like, and it might not be,

(21:22):
But if it isn't, I meanhe's coming anyway. Like I just
I don't think. I think thatthis is just a big step for him
in his career and like, mygosh, is a future bright for him,
but once again, same story.I'm gonna say this for every Olympic
Wait, whoever comes out of it, you just what you're rooting for is

(21:45):
for them to come out of thisevent and have them healthy and ready to
rock this summer and be prepared forBelgrade seventy two kilograms, just as Scott.
Patrick Smith, three time World teammember, twenty nineteen Panams PanAm Games

(22:06):
gold medals, Patrick Smith and JusticeScott who goes and you know who knew
of Justice Scott before twenty twenty oneoutside of Nevada, and then he goes
and wins the Junior Trials just expressingnothing but complete like hate, level of
violence. Just a street fighter.And that's an interesting thing to say because

(22:30):
that's what Dennis Hall always says aboutPat Smith. And then what we saw
at the US Opened out look tobe fair about the US Open This isn't
to take anything away from Scott.Scott should have been called pass him in
the second period, I thought,but you know, the tier are there.
He also scored legitimate points in thefirst period, which is not easy
to do against Pat Smith. Andthen Justice Scott goes and I think he

(22:53):
what shrounts the few guys at thePanAm Championships, which is a tournament we
usually you know, rule over atthe non Olympic weights. But I don't
know we could talk about this.Did Pat Smith look completely like Pat Smith
at the US Open. I'm notso sure he did. I thought he,
Yeah, he had a he gottested by Usselini's kid, Bobby Tree

(23:15):
shock or Tresh shock or however youstay that in the first round and then
you know Jack Irvan, who's fantastic, and he had a you know,
he had a tough goal of itin the finals over at U twenty three.
But Jack Irvan pushed Pat to thebrink before Pat had to stage like
a quite the comeback in the secondperiod of that semi final. Yeah,

(23:41):
I don't know. Let you seewhat Pat how Pat looked at the trials
and it was a little different,you know he I mean, he's always
in shape, but he looked itlooked like he was in better shape.
He looked like he was in bettercondition. He looked sharper. So was
Justice Scott beating Pat in the USOpen final of Fluke was it? I

(24:06):
don't know. I don't think so, I really don't not With the way.
He not with the way he wentabout it. It had been one
thing if it were one or twomoves, and like for some reason or
another, he ate nothing Pat.But that's not how that went down.
I mean he stood toe to toewith him the entire time, which is
extraordinarily difficult to do. I mean, when Pat Smith loses matches normally,

(24:26):
it's not because he lost because heran out of time. It wasn't the
case here. I don't think.I think now, like I said,
I thought that a passive should havewent. You know, we don't know
how to do passivity in this country, So let's get down of the way.
I mean, it just got donesaying that the officials don't know what
they're doing. They don't know howto call passive, they don't know what
it looks like, they don't knowthe tenets of it. But you can't

(24:48):
blame the athlete for that. Andhe also was wise to Pat's game,
and nobody forced his step outs better. Maybe nobody in the world forced his
stepouts better than Pat does. AndJustice was ready and he is just I
mean, that kid is a viciouscompetitor, and I don't know. I
mean, this is going to bethe kind of series where there's not gonna

(25:11):
be a ton of points scored andwe all know it, but they'll make
up for it in the style offight they have to offer. So I
think that's how you wrap up seventytwo. But yeah, can packet to
a fourth team? He can canJustice Scott like fully fully emerge? Yeah,
I don't know. I think hecan so seventy seven kicking off and

(25:37):
Kamal Bay Alexander kicking off? Whoif. Now, look, I'm not
going to say that I root forkicking off because that's not true. I
don't root for anybody. I'll saythat I got a kick. I've gotten
a kick ass seeing a forty threeyear old you know, like, what
do you call it? Just imposehis will on people with manned strength here

(26:03):
and there. Now, look,I wrote this for the flow piece,
the flow preview, which you knowwhat, Let's check if that's out.
Let's check if it has been released, because I would prefer to just read
it word for word and then wecan go through it because you need to

(26:29):
understand stuff. You need to kindof understand the contrast and why this series
is a little bit different and itis different. Okay, make no mistake
about it. It's different. It'sdifferent because here when we're comparing matchups,

(26:52):
we're comparing Americans versus Americans. Imean, yeah, okay, el Dar
and Dalton is not exactly the samething either, But it's a little different
way with kicking off. And it'slike you know that the Bela Russians who
grow up practically doing this this andsoccer I guess or hockey, I guess,

(27:19):
but kicking off has a wealth oftechnical knowledge compared to just about you
know, nearly everybody we have forthe most part anyway. And you see
that with the little things like hedoes, the little things like these little
adjustments in his in his grip hegets his lock and he made it an

(27:45):
adjustment against Peyton Jacobson in the trials. It was just blinking you missed it.
But like the way he turned hiswrist over and then returned the other
way, it's it's it's it's pretty, it's beautiful. But the way that

(28:06):
I worded this is the way I'llstick with it here. And that is
what kicking off brings is he's precise, and he's precise, and his adjustments
are tight. His technique in allphases is polished and it's the subtle adjustments
he can make. But the differenceis is that for kicking off to score

(28:33):
and score big against somebody like Kamal, he kind of has to have everything
set right. I said that aboutTuma to a degree like Tuma is in
my opinion, probably the most explosivelightweight in the country. But Tuma also
wants to be in correct, totallycorrect position. Kamal doesn't need to be

(28:55):
He does not have to be textbook. He does not have to wade through
the ties and have like you know, worry about having like some deep angle
or to where he can hide thathe'll hie dive on you. It doesn't
matter what that looks like, thatdistance, it doesn't matter what you're trying

(29:17):
to Like, you could go aheadand dig in on him while he's trying
to lock and he is still goingto throw, and he is not only
going to throw, he's going toconnect. And that's all. Let me
tell you something that is a hugedifference. It's a huge difference. Now
look their US Open final where youknow, which ended super quick. Well

(29:41):
you saw it there. I meanCamal, you know, barely even had
to touch him. Before he wasalready all over him. You know,
basically, I'm not going to goblow by blow through the whole match description.
But Camal just needs a sliver ofa sliver of a sliver of a
window of opera opportunity, and youcould be staring at eight nothing. That's

(30:03):
just the way he rolls. AndI don't know how Kiknoff adjusted to that.
How do you simulate that in practice? You know, I mean throughout?
Look at Kikinoff's a World bronze medalists, a European Championships gold medalist.
He's wrestled in his career anyway,how many amazing guys has he competed against.

(30:26):
He's not wrestled somebody like Camal though, So it's it's tough. Let's
say he hangs in there, andhe very well might hangs in there.
What is he gonna look like inthe second period? You know? Is
he going to hang in there enoughto where he's not fading? Is he

(30:48):
gonna is he going to have itin him to somehow or another get an
attempt on Camal that pays off?Is he going to have to depend on
Kamal somehow or another getting called passive. Those are the ways that Kof has
a chance in my opinion. Hemean, he has a chance because he's

(31:11):
excellent, but again, in orderfor him to score, it's got to
be really, really precise. Kamaldoes not have that problem. And what's
more is that Kamal counterscoring wise istremendous as well. So even if Kikinoff

(31:32):
does get in on an attack,kamalka go commandeer that that motion, that
action, make it his own andget the points. Kamalk could be on
partire bottom. Kikoff can lock fora lift and Kamal could, like I
don't know, somersault out and piledrive him. I mean, that's the
capability Kamal has. Kikinoff does nothave that capability. That's not a disc

(31:56):
Very few people on planet Earth havethat capability. But we'll see, we'll
see. It's going to be entertainingone way or the other. Okay,
Spencer Woods and Ryan Epps at eightytwo. Ryan Epps coming up next after
this segment. You get some unorthodoxstuff here with Spencer Woods, right,
you get a little bit unorthodox.They're both really physical, They're both going

(32:20):
to bring a lot of static.Okay, I think I think they're gonna
bang heads. And I mean thatliterally, like I think there's gonna be
head clashes because they have that sortof bulldog ness in them. Woods beat
Apps I think once or twice lastyear with some distance in fact, and
one of those bouts. But doesthat matter. I don't think it matters.

(32:47):
Especially doesn't matter when you consider thatRyan Epps couldn't participate in the Open
because he had just you know,went through army and basic training and AI
T and whatnot, and he lookedbetter at the World Team Trials than he
has ever in his career. SoI don't know. I think it kind

(33:07):
of dismissed. Twenty twenty two results. How do they score? How do
they score? Neither is a parktear master. They're just not not yet.
Are we looking at passives? Ithink we're probably looking at passives and
stepouts. It's not a bad thingso long as the intent is there.

(33:29):
And what you need to see outof these two is intent and you need
to see the advancement of position.Okay, you need to see that.
Not it. Look, it doesn'tmatter who you're rooting for. You could
be rooting for Spencer Woods, youcould be rooting for Ryan Epps. Realize
that both of these guys are probablyvery likely going to be eighty seven kilograms

(33:51):
next year, and they're going tobe training and preparing and fighting tooth and
nail to make the Olympic team.Those are the kind of guys you want
challenging potentially for Olympic team spots.You want to know that like they're ready
to take that sort of step.I think that this is a good preview
for, you know, Olympic Trialsseason. I guess you'd say. I

(34:21):
would say that it's also very naturalto kind of tip your hat more in
Woods's direction if you are, let'ssay, someone who elevates the credentials on
someone's resume. Woods is coming offof appearing in the World Championships. He
was also on the U twenty threeteam, and I think that matters to

(34:44):
people. I do do I thinkthat Epps can bully his way to getting
two wins out of this. Ido if you can beat Ben Proviser,
which I know they both did,but if if you could be Ben Provisor
for crying out loud, you're onthe same wavelength. I think there's a

(35:07):
tight series. I think it's aphysical one. This I do expect to
go three. I think Woods hasa little bit more what would you call
I think he prefers to change itup, switch tactics, be explosive.
He's a little bit more dynamic inthat regard. I think that Epps is

(35:30):
a monster hand fighter, monster handfighter, and hand fighting is you know,
it's not everything, but it's it'sa lot of it, especially when
it's this sort of matchup in thistype of weight class. But yeah,
I mean this one, to meis a three match series for sure.
Eighty seven kilograms, Okay, alanVera versus Zach bron Eagle alan veris so

(35:55):
you go and you say all thesenice things about il Dar the best technician
in the country at any weight,and I think that's true. Alan Vera
is the best technical upper weight.I mean, there's no argument there.
I mean that's that's I use thephrase with distance, it's with distance.
Alan Vera is the best technical upperweight with some distance. How does that

(36:20):
matter against Broun Eagle, Well,it matters because part of alan Vera's technical
wizardry is lifts, side lifts,sidelifts. He can do both, and
he doesn't in one motion at eightyseven kilograms. So he doesn't just get
his lock, set his feet andgo like let's say, station station up,

(36:45):
you know where it's like, Okay, he loads them to his hip
and okay, now I'm going tostep in arch. No, he does
it all like as if it's youmean, you don't even see it half
the time, depending on who he'sgoing against, that's tough to deal with.
Can he got wrench? Well,yeah, he ken got wrench.
Because you can ask bron Aggle aboutthat. It seems like I'm stacking the

(37:09):
deck in Vera's favor. If itseems like that, yeah, you kind
of, you kind of have to. I mean, you're talking about the
two time reigning World team member,a guy who I mean, he doesn't
do anything incorrectly. He just doesn't. It's no other way to say that.

(37:32):
That doesn't mean there aren't vulnerabilities there. But Alan Vera is a little
bit of a different playing field Ithink than braun Eagle is. However,
dad doesn't mean bron Eagle's out ofthis either. Okay, first off,

(37:53):
let's go through recent history or we'llcall it recency biased. Anyway, bron
Egle just got done wrestling in theUS Open where he lost to Vera,
and the World Team Trials Challenge Tormentwhere you don't lose to anyone, and
he beat Timothy Young, Farah's runnerup from last year, twice convincingly twice.

(38:21):
And he got done beating rich Carlsontwice. Okay, so right then
and there, here's Zach bron Egle, who and I'm not bragging, I'm
not trying to sound like Greco professorhere, but in twenty eighteen, I
think when he was, you know, a junior junior, I think he

(38:43):
was eighteen. Right in twenty andeighteen, I wrote that like bron Egle,
just he profiles like he's going tobe an excellent senior because he already
had that kind of style. Andnow we're seeing it. And I'm not
trying to once again, I'm nottrying to sound ha ha ha ha,
but he does. He totally doeslike it. Just it's the flow of

(39:05):
the match just makes more sense tohim. Here he is once again excellent
positioning and pressure release. Okay,pressure releases huge at every weight class.
It's really important in the upper weightclasses, especially because that's where that's one

(39:27):
the only times you're ever going tosee scoring from the feet that really makes
a dent, and zach ronegles,switches directions and then he's in. He's
in on drags, he's in behindyou, and you know he's going to
have to work Vera on the feet. Even if he doesn't score, he's

(39:50):
got to work him. And thenwhat it comes down to is limiting the
damage from parterre. We've set itbefore, limiting the damage. Okay,
Do I think broun Agle can turnVera right now? I'm not so sure
about it. Maybe, but Iwouldn't be surprised if he came up empty
in that department. Can Vera turnedbroun Agle, Yes he can. He

(40:14):
already has the thing here is canbroun Agle give up two instead of a
succession of points and then hang inthere in second periods because in second periods
he's going to be money. Secondperiods, he's gonna be right there.
He's not going to go anywhere.He's gonna feel the same as he did
when the match began. If anything, he's probably gonna feel better. Right

(40:37):
if you're in striking distance against AlanVera in the second period, you've got
a shot, not going to havea shot if you give up more than
two or four points. Okay,it's going to be really, really difficult.
Anyway, That's how I see thatseries going. If this isn't I
said about Perez, If it's notBraun Eggle's time this year, that's okay.

(41:00):
His time is common. His timeis coming. I mean, eighty
seven kilograms next year, with allthe principles involved, it's going to be
the sickest weight class. It's justit totally is. And bron Engle is
a huge, huge reason why.And look, I mean he's fighting for

(41:21):
a World Team spot already. AndI don't know, there's people in Illinois
who think that he can do whatI can tell you that, and they
don't just think it because he's theirguy. They have they're pretty confident reasoning
for it. But we'll see,we'll see ninety seven kilograms, Okay,
another Illinois guy, right, JoeRaw versus Christian Dulaney. Christian Dulaney going

(41:45):
up or back up? Because Imean he wrestled ninety seven at Universities or
whatever, or you twenty three.I don't remember, but either way,
Christian Delaney going back up to ninetyseven or up to ninety seven for senior.
Great decision, and I think Delanneywould have been in the argument at
eighty seven, but ninety seven fitshim, better, fits him better us

(42:07):
open. You know, he droppeda match to m Nick Boyke and that
kind of you know, that wasthat was a tough master him to lose,
dusting himself off. Goes to theTrials challenge tournament gets through. That
looked like a says what can hedo to challenge Joe Roo? I mean,

(42:30):
you gotta you have to, youhave to be able to come up
with an answer here? What canyou do to challenge Joe Rao? Well?
Number one, don't get you know, bombed off the mat. And
when I stay bombed, I don'teven mean thrown or tossed or whatever.
Don't get plowed, don't fall victimsto the row plow Joe Row getting confident

(42:52):
and chipping in on you, andjust it's it's a steady pressure. Sure,
it's a steady pressure. And thenit's he waffles you. That can't
happen to Delaney here instead. Ithink Delaney's best chance is to bring that
kind of heat as much as hecan. I don't know if he trained

(43:13):
for it. Bring that heat asmuch as you can to Joe instead.
I think that's the way to doit. I think that you have to
take it to Joe. You haveto go after him. Okay, you're
not You're not gonna win by doingthe moonwalk. Okay, you're not going
to win by trying to wrestle outof Joe's positions because he's positionally more sound.

(43:39):
So what do you do? Well, then you have to bring the
brawl. Okay, Joe's a brawlertoo. He's a technical brawler, but
he's a brawler. You have tobrawl back. And then when you get
put down, if you do,and let's assume that you do once again,

(44:00):
not to sound like a broken record, limit the damage, limit to
damage, limit to damage. Okay, it's upper weight here. Okay,
it's ninety seven kilograms. Nobody's expectingsixteen to ten scores here. You've got
to keep it close, and you'vegot to keep it tight. Okay,
look at the lightweight classes. Youcan be down by some points and still

(44:22):
make a run at it. Ninetyseven kilograms. If you're down by five
six points, I might as wellbe twelve or fifteen points or something,
like that. If Delaney can avoidgiving up crooked numbers from parts are bottom,
then we're talking. Did Delaney expectto be here? I imagine he
expected to be here, certainly believedhe had a chance to Otherwise he wouldn't

(44:45):
have went up and wade Joe raw. On the other hand, he wasn't
quite sure he was going to wrestleagain this spring, but then he did,
and now he is again in atrial's final. And I'm not gonna
I don't want to like say,yeah, I don't think these guys ever
take these things for granted, ButI mean, like it's old hat,

(45:07):
but it's a situation where he's usedto this. He knows what this feels
like. He's wrestled in final acts, he's wrestled in trial finals. Okay,
Like he's not going to be dauntedby this atmosphere at all. Now
Delanney might not be either, AndI'd think that once there's contact made on

(45:27):
the mat, all that sort ofgoes away. But nevertheless, Joe round
this type of spot, he isgoing to be hungry. He's going to
be a problem, all right.One more weight class, heavyweight one thirty
one and thirty kilograms in terms ofpopularity. This is the second most anticipated
series, I guess, and thatis I mean, both guys bring mainstream

(45:53):
cache to it, don't they.And that is Coulton Schultz and Adam Koon,
who's similar charities are striking. Imean, when you really look at
it, Kun with the World silverand eighteen but as a junior he was
a World bronze medalist. Colin Schultzcadet World champion, junior World bronze,

(46:14):
junior World silver, Adam kun whatever, he was three time All American.
I guess at Michigan NCAA Division onerunner up, Colin Schultz has already been
an NCAA Division one runner up.We have a great heavyweight history in this
uh wheelhouse here, don't we?So what do we know? We know

(46:36):
that prior to April two thousand andtwenty three, Adam Kuhne was foreign against
Colton Schultz in two series and thatis Final X Lincoln from twenty nineteen and
the two thousand and twenty or twentyone, however you want to say,
Olympic team trials. Kuon won twoof those matches close. He won two
of those matches via tech. Thenobviously he steps away after the last chance

(47:00):
Olympic Games qualifier in twenty twenty one, he embarks on and then, let's
speak English, an NFL career,and now he's back. We go to
the US Open in April and Coltonpours it on him. So where does

(47:21):
that leave us here? Well,Adam Coon coming off of a two year
layoff. You know, he's allowedto lose. Yeah, Okay, he's
allowed to be rusty, he's allowedto be off with his timing. He's
allowed to overcommit to positions and attemptsthat. Yeah, maybe kind of would

(47:43):
have rather put those back in yourpocket, calling Scholtz. However, you
know, we can go ahead andsay, yeah, well, you know,
Adam was coming off of a twoyear layoff, and that's totally fair.
I mean, one hundred percent fair. Be ridiculous to deny reality.
Except the only problem with that is, yeah, he stepped away for two

(48:05):
years, but during those two years, Colon Schultz improved and competed a lot.
Okay, so that was going tohappen anyway. I'm not talking about
the result from the US Open.What I'm saying is what was going to
happen whether kun stayed or left.Colin Schultz was going to improve and he

(48:28):
was very very likely going to atthe very very least closed the gap between
the two of them. And youknow what, and also must be said
to hear, is that even thoughhe had lost those matches to Kun in
Final X nineteen and in the OlympicTrials twenty twenty one two years ago,

(48:51):
Colin had more ownership of the tiesin those matches. Okay, I mean
he lost one of those matches bygoing for a headlock for some reason and
then just you know, go intohis stomach and getting turned out. But
Colton is more authentic when it comesto the tie ups. When it comes

(49:12):
to hand fighting into tie ups,he has more intuitive positioning and he also
I think has a better grasp ofwhere he needs to have his feet in
relationship to his opponent. He doesnot tend to over lean. I mean,
you're you're at heavyweight, you're you'reyou're all going to lean on each
other. But Colton is always mindfulof not just his feet, but what

(49:37):
he is doing to his opponent's feet. And Adam is mindful of his opponent's
fee to a degree, perhaps,but we know that he is reliant on
over under and that's obviously didn't helphim so much at the US Open.
And look at I mean, Kondid what he had to do through the

(50:02):
Challenge tournament, and he certainly lookedhe certainly looked better. I mean he
beat Tanner Farmer by being ready forTanner Farmers attempts that he went and countered
into points that made the difference.So what do you do with all this

(50:23):
information? Anyway? I mean,what do you what do you do?
Where are you coming off on it? Where are you coming off on it?
Do you think that hey, Koongod for twenty four months or so,
give or take, and you knowhe's with Momir and he souped up,
and he's used to the big stage. And we're getting ready for either

(50:46):
a Kon return to the top spotor at the very bare minimum, least
three full matches of intense heavyweight theater. If it only goes to those two
are gone in a cult and Schultzerfor goes three, it's anybody's game.
I think that's where we're at.I think that's where we're at. And
I'm not just saying that because ofthe US Open result, which you take

(51:08):
seriously, but you don't hang everythingon it. I just think there's more
to be said for a young athletewho has been competing at the highest level
in college and in between still competingat the highest level available in Greca Roman
wrestling, and there's a value innot stopping. And when Kun walked away,

(51:32):
it's not like he was still goingto practices. Okay, he tried
to apply his trade in another realm. That stuff matters. It matters at
this level, especially concerning that whenKun walked away, he didn't walk away
from a weight class where the distancebetween him and the number two guy was
so great. There was distance,but that number two guy at the time,

(51:59):
everybody in anybody who knows the sportunderstood, was going to wind up,
you know, like I said before, closing that gap. And so
that's that's where I think we areheading into Saturday. Could heavyweight go three
matches? Absolutely? Could? Ijust think if it goes two matches,

(52:19):
it means that Colton Schultz took thefirst two. So anyhow, So that's
that's the card. That's the carddown the true third bouts. I really
hope people pay attention to the truethird bouts. First off, the athletes
deserve it. They always deserve it. Okay, they're being given the opportunity
to compete on an enormous stage ina grand presentation. And it's also for

(52:46):
national team. National team matters.I mean it totally matters. It does.
I mean, we go ahead andwe kind of skirt over this sometimes,
but national team's important. It's animportant distinction, it's an honor.
It also helps the athletes a littlebit when it comes to financials and resources

(53:07):
and opportunities a little bit. AndI'm really glad that this is a full
on part of the program at FinalXTS. I totally am. And there's
six good matches for Greco Roman Wrestling. Okay, Greco Roman Wrestling, sixty
kilograms, Random Miranda versus Dylan Kuntz. Random Miranda a premier counter scorer,

(53:30):
and he's had his battles with DylanKunsel ready. He's given up matches to
him, he's gotten matches from him. And Dylan Kuntz is a lot like
Brady Koontz, except that I thinkhe's a little bit more diversified, I
guess is the way I would sayit. For sure, it's a pick
him, not that we pick him, but it's a pick him. Random

(53:51):
Miranda has been in big matches likethis before, and it's tough to see
him wilting under this kind of spotlight. Dylan uns is a dog and obviously
my best friend in the co hostof this podcast coaches him, so I
know how hard he's worked. Butit's a great match. I think it's

(54:13):
going to set the tone nicely forgreco On Saturday Afternoon sixty three kilogram Sammy
Jones and Dylan Gregorson former teammates.Former teammates kind of sort of at the
Utah Valley RTC, And there wereopponents before that of a couple a few
times. I think twenty nineteen Nationalteam match actually Sammy Jones beat Dylan Gregorson

(54:34):
out and then two twenty two BillFarrell Memorial in November. The November edition
of It, Sammy beat Dylan Gregorsonin the final. Dylan gregorson He's one
of my favorite competitors in the country. I mean, Sammy Jones is obviously
one of my favorite competitors in thecountry. Oh, I just love everybody,
don't I And I don't know.I think Dylan Gregor's and has something

(55:00):
to prove here. I do.I think he's got something to prove,
if I'm going to be honest aboutit. And I don't like throwing that
out there because it's like, well, of course he's got something to prove.
He's a competitor. He's got somethingto prove, and people say,
I've got nothing left to prove,then why you're competing still. But it's
different for Dylan Gregorson because he islike, so right there, he is
so right there. Sammy's a prospro and you know he knows how to

(55:29):
pile on pretty quick. I trustthat Gregorson knows that. Intimately, well,
they could be ready for it.I think it's going to be a
matchup brings people to their feet oneway or the other. Seventy two kilograms
Michael Hooker and Noah Walksmuth. NoahWalksmouth going for a second consecutive national team
spot. Noah Walksmith does not getenough credit, just does not get enough

(55:51):
credit, totally, just does notfor how far he's come so quickly.
I mean, no Woksmuth was afull time youth athlete as an EAP Lee
Accelerator Program athlete dating back I don'tknow, four or five years or so.
I mean, I think people probablyremember the twenty twenty one trials junior
trials were I mean that was JusticeScott and that was like his first big
step. And then you fast forwardand that kid has done everything he can

(56:16):
to put himself in like the uppertier here domestically. I don't know.
It's a look at Walksmouth is he'sgot the momentum, There's no question about
it. He's the one with momentum. But yet look at Hooker who's been
injured six ways of Sunday and bangedups pretty much every time he walks onto

(56:37):
him. Matt still finds himself inrelevant matches. Do I think there's a
high scoring one. I don't.Walksmouth has taken out Hooker before, hmm,
I don't. If you had togive an over under on points,
I'd say twelve. Well you're betteroff gone with an odd number there,

(57:00):
right, So I'll say eleven.Yeah, that's have fun with It'll stay
eleven points. But there you go. We move on. We covered sixty,
we got sixty three, and seventytwo is away. Now we go
for the big three here, andthat's eighty two kilograms, okay. Ben

(57:21):
Proviser in an unfamiliar spot. AndI'll get to that in a second versus
Barrett Stangil. Barrett Stangil who doesn'teven practice, doesn't even practice, and
if he does, it's like literallylike nothing practice, like maybe a half
hour once a week or something.Okay, just comes back on a verifiable

(57:46):
win for the US Open and takesthird, and then now look at him,
he's in the national team match.That's just something else anyhow. Okay,
So improviser, beam Provisor, Okay, two thousand and twelve, two
thousand, two thousand and twelve OlympicTrial finals, right what two thousand and

(58:10):
fourteen, twenty sixteen, seventeen eighteennineteen final X twenty one World Team Trials
and last year obviously joined So looka look at all the trial finals.
Beam Provisor has been in for cryingout loud it's nuts, it's nuts,

(58:32):
But not this year. And that'sbecause Epps, who once again is coming
up in the next segment, becauseEpps clipped him in the Challenge tournament final.
And do I think this is goingto be high scoring match? I
this is no disrespect to anybody.I can't even contain the laughter thinking about

(58:52):
this being a high scoring match.It's not gonna be a high scoring match.
I doubt it. Stang Hill.When was the last time Stanghill wrestler.
I want to say twenty nineteen Raleigh. I'm pretty sure it was.
It was. Actually Stangel came closeto national team that tournament too, because
he lost the provisor I think threeto one, and he lost a Pat

(59:14):
Martin as probably by a similar score. But I mean, look, Ben
is the one who's more locked in, and Ben actually has practice partners and
all that, But I don't know, there's something to be said for a
dude who just like decides to comeback and doesn't have the resources, doesn't
have the partners and all that,and still in the argument. I mean,

(59:37):
who knows what happens. Who knowswhat happens? But high scoring?
No, not gonna be high scoring. I mean it could be. I
mean, I'm always capable of beingwrong. It's just at the idea of
this like for some reason or otherbeing like a over under of fifteen.
I think that's probably hilarious. Okay, two more matches and I'm going out

(59:57):
of order for a reason. Here, two more matches. Heavyweight Donnie Longendyke
versus Brandon Mets Donnie Longendyke, whoyou know what, Yeah, I get
it, he's not in the trialfinals. Donnie Longendyke is actually probably the
most complete and skilled heavyweight in thecountry probably. I mean, he's equally

(01:00:17):
as skilled and athletic as either Schultzerkun Is, but he doesn't put it
together, or at least he doesn'tor hasn't yet. I guess you'd say,
I don't know. He had oneof the best matches at the Olympic
Trials in my opinion, against JacobMitchell. And it's weird because it's a
heavyweight. It was a heavyweight thirdplace match, and it's you know,

(01:00:42):
you look at the score and it'slike, really that was one of the
most exciting matches and it totally waslike it was, you know, Jacob
Mitchell has gotten a lot of grief, and sometimes deservedly so, but both
guys showed tremendous hard in that match. I haven't forgotten about it, but
long and Dyke's been in and aroundfor a while, and it's just he
has not punched rule. He justhasn't. And yeah, it's just how

(01:01:07):
it goes. Brandon Metz, he'sa stud he is a he's a beast
of a character and has come uppretty quick. He's a good age group
or he's been solid at senior andthen we get to the main event.
For the main card, I wentin weight class order for this. I'm
not going in order. I wantto save this one, and that is

(01:01:30):
seventy seven kilograms Rayvon Perkins and PeytonJacobson. Rayvon Perkins one of my favorite
human beings on planet Earth, andPeyton Jacobson, who is on the same
exact wavelength and trajectory as someone likeRobert Paris. In fact, I mean,
look at Peyton Jacobson. He's goingfor a second national team spot and
he's also you twenty three World teamand U twenty World team. Right.

(01:01:54):
No, well, he won theU twenty trials and can take the huge
twenty three spot. I think that'show this goes where Wonky procedures. But
either way, so Peyton Jacobson andRayvon now Peyton Jacobs beating Raven and Rayvon
actually beat Peyton Jacobson in their firstever matched together in last last year's Bill

(01:02:15):
Farrell Morell April twenty twenty two.This is a worth the price of admission
about totally totally. You know,Rayvon, he's got an injury history pretty
well documented one. He's just alwaysbeen battling stuff, but especially over the

(01:02:36):
course of the past seven years,and the amount of work and stuff he
has to do just to compete issignificant. So how do you see it
going. Do you see it beinga situation where one of the two gets
passive point and you know, rakesfour guts and wraps it all up.

(01:03:00):
Or do you see it being closebut with a lot of points scored or
a decent amount of point scored?And I definitely think it's the latter.
I think it's a close match,but they score. To me, this
seems like what do we want topeg me over? Under app what would

(01:03:24):
you consider to be an acceptable pointsminimum per athlete? I'm gonna I'm gonna
go ahead what I said for walkswithin hooker eleven right, all right,
so that's what we'll go with.I'm gonna go ahead and say eleven.

(01:03:47):
I'll say eleven. I know thatdoesn't seem like a lot of points,
but in a national team match ona huge stage in an arena that fits
like you know whatever, fifteen thousandpeople I think eleven points is respectable at
seventy seven kilograms particularly so Yeah,anyway, well that's the card, ladies

(01:04:10):
and gentlemen, that's the card.It's gonna be awesome. I appreciate the
fact that they're putting the True Thirdslike in a spot where it's a featured
attraction almost. It's like almost likethe kickoff to the event. I think
that's appropriate. I think that's theway wrestling should be done. It is,
that's how it's often done, right. But I love it. I

(01:04:31):
love that they're that it's worked outthis way. All Right, we're set?
Are we set? We can bringin Ryan Epps? Now, okay,
let's bring in Epps, who iscompeting at Final X this Saturday Final
X NORC. Let's hit it.If you're not coming into Nork and you're
not going to attend the event,I really, really really hope you tune

(01:04:56):
in for the true third matches.Twelve thirty is when they st are going
down. If you are a supporterof Greco Roman wrestling in our country,
I really hope that you take seriouslywatching the two third matches because that's part
of your support. All right,and joining me now is mister Ryan Epps.
All right, right, first thing, that's your decision to join the

(01:05:21):
Army and by extension, the WorldClass Athletes program. Now I know full
well that they were interested in you, even dating back to twenty twenty,
which is when you really basically beganyour senior career. Why now, was

(01:05:42):
this the move for you to make? Yeah, I mean they always kind
of joked and said, you know, if you ever want to join the
Army, should consider it. UMwe got a place for you. And
I was like, oh, youknow, they'll be kind of cool.
And for a while, I neverreally like kind of thought about it because
I enjoyed living in Minnesota and UMlike training there and everything. And UM

(01:06:04):
then UM was actually qualified for theirprogram, you know, and UM started
to consider it a little bit more, and UM still you know, it
took a long time to like fullycommit to it, UM just because you
know, weighing out all the prosand cons. But UM, there's a
lot of pros to that UM programand everything that kind of comes with UM

(01:06:28):
the benefits of being in the military. So UM it was just but a
good decision for me, I guesson this point of life. UM on
like different different type of training,I guess, and then um, other
like aspects of life to help mebe successful in the future. UM.
Obviously, I really enjoyed my mytime training in Minnesota and UM took a

(01:06:51):
lot from that. UM. Itwill always be appreciative of what what those
guys did for me and what Igot out of it. UM. Yeah,
it will just be a new chapterin my career, in my life
and looking forward to making the mostof it. You know, I don't
not that my feelings on it orat all relevant, but it's like it's

(01:07:13):
it's kind of mixed because on onehand, you know, Minnesota Storms flagship
like if you want to use theword franchise for the Greco Roman program dating
back to the Minnesota Wrestling Club andeverything else in the history and the legacy
that goes along with it. Andit's like, as a fan, I
guess you'd say it's like, youknow, like I hate to see the

(01:07:34):
Minnesota Storm lose anybody. But atthe same time, and I thought this
back in twenty just on my own, it's that like, havn't gotten to
know you. You seem like sucha great fit for like a forgetting even
w cap like like the Army period, Like, like it just seems like

(01:07:55):
it fits you just your your disciplineand I don't even mean that Nicole anyway,
but like I know that you're areally disciplined individual, and you're high
character and you're extremely hard working.There's just a lot of stuff about like
army that makes sense to me.I guess, like just personally, it
does. What I want to knowis I mean not that this is necessarily

(01:08:18):
something of intense interest at the momentconsidering uh, but what is uh what's
your army job? What's your MS? Where'd you go to an ai T
forum? I mean so Califunny,I just picked one of the shortest and
like easiest mos is, um,just so I could get back into training.

(01:08:39):
It's ninety two golf. It's beinga cook. I mean, I
like I enjoy cooking. Obviously,nutrition is a big part of being an
athlete. Um. You know,I just kind of did it to um,
you know, get back into competingas soon as I can. But
yeah, I would say, no, rmy is like good fit for me.
But at the same time, I'mlike not that Army for SAE because

(01:09:01):
they really like to just have you, you know, jump when they say
jump or not really question what they'retelling you. And sometimes, you know,
if you have even any bit ofa higher IQ, you know,
you kind of question like why arewe doing this stuff? And they don't
really like that too much. Soit's not always. It wasn't easy.
I guess m to not and Iget annoyed by some of the stuff that

(01:09:27):
they had us do, I guess, but not that I'm going to talk
a bit about the Army at all, because I know the purpose of why
they do it. But yeah,it was there was an interesting experience and
definitely tested my patience sometimes, butjust to say the least you know,
some of the people there or uh, you know, just whatever we were
doing. But um, I'm gladto be done with that, and then

(01:09:50):
you know, get to what I'mactually going to be doing. An Army
is wrestling, you know, tryingto make a world an Olympic team,
and um, just represent the Armyfor that. No, that's beautiful.
It makes sense. It's pretty pragmaticto pick cooking considering what you said,

(01:10:12):
like why not you know, dosomething that's aligned with a party of your
everyday life. Anyway, I hadnever heard that kind of answer before.
But that's a really good one.I don't mean to even jump ahead,
but let's just go here. Youhad military obligations and you had to get

(01:10:34):
those out of the ways, sothere was no chance of you having like
a not that we have them anymorein the United States anyway, Not that
we have actual competitive seasons. Wedon't. We have the April. Yeah.
With that said, I guess hindsightis twenty twenty. It's easy to

(01:10:54):
say that now considering you just wonthe World Team Child Challenge tournament and or
now moving on to final, butwas missing the US Open in any way,
shape or form potentially a net positive. Um. Yeah, I mean
it was a negative and positive obviously. UM. I always want to compete
and um be on the mat asmuch as I can. I just I'm

(01:11:15):
a competitor, and UM, youknow I love your wrestle, love what
I do. UM, it's ablessing to just be able to um compete
at this high level and um witha skill set and everything um that God's
given me. Um. But yeah, I would say negative, like because
you know, I was like watchingit on flow and like, man,

(01:11:35):
I should be there. I wantto want to try and wrestle and um,
you know, just get as muchMatt time as I can. But
at the same time, I guessit was positive because um it made me
even more hungry, Um get backon the mat and just like you know,
visualize like what I you know,need to do against some of these
guys to beat them. And yeah, I guess really just um creating that

(01:12:00):
hunger, Um get back on themat. Not that I ever really lose
it, but um, yeah,just you know, really wanting to get
out of the get out of thetraining and then back to competing again.
No, I think there's something tobe said for that. I mean,
you could also have, um,a case where you had let's say you

(01:12:26):
did Let's say we were normal here. Let's say we were normal like we
used to be, like even I'mtalking fifteen years ago or so, when
we would have some kissed and thevery early fall and then the New York
Tournament and then whatever it goes onfrom there. You know, Um,
for a few years there, acouple of years Minnesota Storm had the Holiday

(01:12:47):
Cup, and then you'd have DaveSchultz and maybe you would have went overseas
and then by the time you getto the US open, You've already had
like a pretty good run of matcheshere. I mean, even though I
would love for that to return,sometimes that's not the best thing for everybody
either, And I just think,I don't know. I think for you,

(01:13:13):
like you personally, I think itwas probably great, you know,
because I think your style is onethat's kind of like malleable against whomever you're
competing, and I think for someother guys they probably need constant time on
target. I don't know, butlike especially considering Ryan, like your first

(01:13:36):
match at the trial, like yourfirst match right off the bat at the
trials is against Brackett, know whoyou've competed against a couple of times before,
and you know that it's going tobe a grinding kind of match and
stuff, and it's like, well, you can kind of and this isn't
like in any way, shape orform to diminish Tommy, but you can

(01:13:58):
get off the couch and rest thatkind of match. Like you're a physical
you know, you're a physical,stout kind of competitor when it comes to
positioning, and that's the kind offormula it takes. The hanging there against
somebody like Brackett, you didn't needsix months of training to be able to
do that either, you know whatI mean, Yeah, I would say,
I mean I never try and letmyself um, you know with out

(01:14:19):
of shape just because I enjoy um, you know, fitness that was part
of my UM college degree and uspretty healthy you know, kind of live
that lifestyle. Not saying that thoseguys don't, I guess, but that
just gives me, UM an advantage. I know, I'm confident in is
at least like all all still bealways able to compete, you know,

(01:14:40):
at any times notice um. Andthen yeah, I guess with UM my
style of wrestling, I feel likeI can adjust whoever I'm wrestling. UM.
And then UM, I would say, like for the sport, it
would be really good to to havea lot more tournaments just because it keep
like fans involved, um, youknow, and then it gives a athletes

(01:15:03):
more opportunity to showcase or skill setand um, you know, just creates
a lot more like hyper on thesport where if you're always like putting out
UM, I guess content at whateverI'm going to say that, but just
tournaments, you know, stuff forpeople to watch, UM, it'll keep
them more involved, it'll grow thesport where if you only have it like
a couple things of a year,it's kind of hard to keep people,

(01:15:26):
um, you know, involved andinterested in it. UM. And I
think, for me, honestly,I would I would not mind UM competing
more because you know, in collegeyou have you know, forty plus matches
a year and making weight all thetime. So for me, that wouldn't
be an issue. I know forsome guys it'd be tough to you know,

(01:15:47):
compete every couple of weeks or monthsor whatever. But UM, I
think if we can, if USAWrestling or whoever can try and bring UM
more tournaments back to the US,that would be great. Well, yeah,
it would be great, Ryan,especially when you consider the trials procedures

(01:16:08):
which are which were this year extremelylimiting, And we had athletes who had,
for some reason or another, theworst tournament of their senior careers at
the US Open, and they didn'tqualify for the trials. And I'm thinking
of, you know, just abouthalf a dozen off the top of my
head, who definitely should have beenin the trials, almost objectively should have

(01:16:31):
been in the trials just based onreputation alone, but because they only had
one tournament to qualify, right,I agree. You know, if you're
like sick or maybe you have aninjury, you know, you're banged up
or whatever. Let's just say youhave one bad tournament and then that's your
only opportunity. You know that,then you don't qualify. It's a big

(01:16:53):
deal. So I think definitely thereneeds to be more more chances to make
it and obviously makes a worthy Trialsdeeper. And then yeah, it just
doesn't have like flutes like that.I guess, yeah, it's look and
the interest of you know, notgoing completely tangential. I'm just going to

(01:17:18):
keep it there. I mean,that's exactly right. Just it's it's nuts.
I mean, it's just it's justcrazy that that was our procedures this
year. Yet top seven from FreestyleOpen qualify for the Greco Trials and it's
just sorry, just that's completely ludicrous. But right, well, we got

(01:17:40):
Tommy out of the way, andTommy's obviously an extremely formidable opponent. But
then in a semi final you hadBarriessa and he hadn't competed in Greco in
a couple of years and he reallyacquitted himself super well. In that tournament.
You hadn't wrestled Andrew Barriessa before.I didn't really know quite what that

(01:18:01):
match would look like. Like itwas tough, kind of, I mean
not tough. Let's not over dramatizeit like it's I mean, give me
a break, but it's an interestinglike clash of styles, I thought,
And that first period was true toform. It was a it was a
tight first period. I think hehad a passive point I'm not mistaken,

(01:18:25):
and then in the second period sortof midway through it was a chip away
on your part and then obviously youwind up running away with it. So
talked me through Barryessa, what youthought about him, any kind of stuff
you noticed in match, and justyour general attitude come that second period.

(01:18:47):
Um yeah, I mean I knewthat he was a pretty solid opponent.
I knew he had a good USOpen tournament, and I don't I know,
he's got some other accomplishments. Yeah, yeah, so very impressive accolades.
So I was like, all right, yeah, it's obviously gonna be
a tough match semifinals. Um Iwas just kind of ready to, um,

(01:19:12):
you know, go to war likeevery match, I guess, but
um, yeah, first period,like it was came out pretty strong,
you know, and I was kindof feeling him out a little bit and
then um kind of felt like hewas, you know, trying to go
for like big moves only a littlebit um and so I was like,
just, uh, I kind ofcontrolling the pace, controlling the ties.

(01:19:35):
Um gets feeling getting more and moretired, and that second period, who
was pretty shot. Um. Sothen I was able to check away and
get to my offense a lot moreand um, yeah, eventually get to
get the text. So it workedout. Yeah, it was something else.
I mean it was it was definitelysystematic for you, I thought in

(01:19:57):
the second period because there was islike a definitive change and momentum. Yet
That's why I always talk about yourstyle being disciplined, because it's even if
you felt like he were starting tofade a little bit, it's not like
you went and tried to do somethingnuts that didn't make sense either, Like

(01:20:20):
you kind of stayed in the right. I mean, obviously, if the
opportunity, the opportunities there to dosomething big, then I feel like I
have the capability to capitalize on it, you know. But it's like I'm
not going to force it just becauseI'm I feel like I can end the
match the way I was continuing todo it instead of like for something and

(01:20:41):
then potentially get caught. You know, It's like, if I'm doing something
that's work, that's working, Imight as well stick with it. That
brought you to the final against Ben. Before the matchup with Ben, are
you thinking back to last year,your match him and how you know that

(01:21:02):
those fields might translate to this year? Did you watch Ben at the Open
and see something or anything different?Like what was your mindset going against Ben?
Because Ben is a I mean tobe honest, I mean he has
the obviously has different mechanics, differenttactics, and he's an expert when it
comes to off balances if there everwere one. But at the same time,

(01:21:26):
like you guys have some similarities,I mean aside from physique of all
things, but like you have similarities. We're both extremely tough to score on,
which means that it's not you're notWe're probably not looking at a fifteen
to fourteen kind of match here.Number one. Number two is that like
you also know that he is hecan be bread and butter with par tear.

(01:21:48):
Two, I mean that doesn't necessarilymean he runs guts all around the
map, but he's certainly capable ofit. But Ben's okay with just getting
one turn if he asked that too, he's pros pro. So talk me
if you would through Ben. Yeah, I mean, um, you know

(01:22:08):
the match with which Ben and um, I guess Brackett. You know,
both of those were very close lastyear, so it was nice to get
both of those um back as awin. UM. And then yeah,
so that match was was really closelast year, and UM, you know
just gave me confidence to be like, Okay, well you know I,
um, I'm right in that Iuh, if I wrest them again,

(01:22:30):
I'll I can beat him. Youknow, I just got to do a
couple of things different and uh,yeah the match could go either way.
UM. Obviously he's a very umsavvy veteran that has accomplished a lot,
so UM obviously like a lot ofrespect there. I think maybe some guys
like kinda like follow out a littlebit, like maybe they're like afraid of

(01:22:51):
like going after him, um whenthey wrestle. I don't know, but
I guess I just knew that Ihad to like try and like to get
to him. Um, if Ididn't get turned on top, then I
think, uh, you know,it's a positive to go on my favor
and just he likes to um usethe edge its advantage a lot, Like

(01:23:13):
it's pretty hard to get all theway out to the edge and it's pretty
powerful, so he gets too closeto the edge. That's where you want
to capitalize and score. So Iwas just um wary on um where I
was on the mat and always tryingto be in the center UM and control
the pace and UM. I feellike as soon as like that first period

(01:23:33):
was done, UM, he triedto expend a lot of that energy on
top and just getting that first passiveso on the second period was where I
was able to, you know,get to my UM positions a little bit
more and hold ground and then geton top. So what was a big
one? Ryan? It was abig one. I mean, it's the

(01:23:54):
biggest domestic scalp you've collected thus far, and it leads you to the doorstep
of the World team, which nowwere what I guess a couple of weeks
away from final X In anyway,now you're going up against Spencer Woods,

(01:24:23):
who to whom you became accustomed lastyear and Spencer is starting to ride pretty
high here. And he's also ateammate with Army, not that that factors
in so much considering the training arrangement. Currently, Spencer's profile has raised kind
of big time. He's appeared inthe World Championships. You've had time on

(01:24:45):
the mat with him. You're notgoing to want to give any potential strategies
away. I would reckon. Butwhat are you seeing in Spencer that makes
you feel pretty confident going into thisthing? Um? Yeah, I mean
obviously, um Pressel Spencer before,UM, I know he's a very UM

(01:25:06):
skilled, UM pechnical and UM youknow has a good a lot like high
endurance. UM. So it's agood, good opponent. UM, I'm
excited to wrestle. And again obviouslynow that we're teammates, it's cool.
Um. Either way, it's gonnabe a w CAP person representing the US
and the World Championship. UM.It was kind of funny after the tournaments,

(01:25:29):
I stayed out a week and trainwith the w CAP and I was
actually saying at his house house youknow. So it's a it's no bad
bad blood or anything. We justknow that it's part of the part of
the sport where you have to whensee it to this high level. Um,
you'll probably base um, some ofyour teammates, you know, because
if you're all wrestling, well,you know, that's just kind of what

(01:25:50):
happens. It's got to be onewinner. So um, either way,
I know we're both excited and readyto put on a show for final.
And yeah, it'll be It'll besome good matches for sure. Yeah.
I mean, look, you alreadyknow what that feels like to wrestle teammates.

(01:26:12):
You've you've done it before anyway.I mean, you did it in
a national final for crying out loud. I mean, that's just a nature
of the beast here, especially inGreco, where even if you weren't on
Army and you were still with Stormor something. I mean, you're going
to wrestle people you at the veryleast, no well, event you know
eventually anyway, I mean that's justhow we are here. I think it's

(01:26:34):
a great matchup. You. You'vebeen in the finals of these big tormaments
now as a senior Greco Roman athlete, and you also won. I mean,
I guess we could all say thatyou were on your way to winning
a third D three title if ithad not been canceled. You won two

(01:26:55):
Division three championships and all that.So you're familiar with the idea of being
in a big final. If you'vewatched Final X, you've seen the presentation
and it's to me, it's thebest I mean, it's the best rendering
of our sport possible. I thinkit supersedes that of the Olympic Team Trials

(01:27:15):
as well. I just think Ijust think Final X does it right.
Is there anything about this sort ofsituation as you thinking differently about it at
all? Like do you catch itfeeling a different way about it? Are
you at all? Like I don'tknow. I don't want to say apprehensive,
because that's not the word, becauseonce you're on the map, I
doubt any of that will matter anyway. But just the fact like this is,

(01:27:38):
dude, this in a big arenaand big deal. Do you know
what I mean? Like you thoughtabout these things at all? Um?
Yeah, I mean kind of likewhat I said in my interview after the
World Team Trials, Like the feelingof like getting nervous and excited is kind
of the same thing. You justhave to use it to your advantage and
not like think too much about it, because when you're excited, you know,

(01:27:59):
you like, I feel like youperformed well and you're like, um
loose and you know, just ina flow state. Whereas if you're nervous
and you're overthinking things and getting yourown head and it's like you don't you
want to have positive thoughts not negative. So um and obviously this tournament um
is like or this these matches aredifferent because like it can lead to qualifying

(01:28:19):
for something bigger, you know,Whereas when I won my NT double A
titles like that was like it youknow, it's like you win, you
win, but I guess if youwin then there's more on the line for
this. But either way, youknow, the goal is to you know,
compete well and um win and uh, either way you still have to
you know, wrestle. So it'snot it's not too much different. You

(01:28:42):
know, it's competing. It's competing. So I'm either way, I'm gonna
go out there and be excited aboutit, all right. And that was
Ryan Epps, who again is competingthis coming Saturday, June tenth, Prential

(01:29:08):
Center, Lafayette Street, Nork,New Jersey, Final X NORC to two
thousand and twenty three World Team TrialsBest of three finals, where Epps will
be among the twenty grec Roman athletesFuye for World Team spots. And we've
went over this. We went overat big time of four Epps, what

(01:29:29):
a card, great card, supportthis card, and yeah, tune in,
tell everybody tune in. And that'sit. I'm not going to go
through a massive, you know,a bunch of verbalization here. Normally I'll
throw like an editorial and on theback end of the podcast and I'll mention

(01:29:50):
upcoming events and I'll tell a littleside stories or give some notes and some
additional context. But now we're gonnajust kind of wrap it right here.
We will come back next week witha post final X breakdown, hopefully Hall
will be part of that, andwe'll just start moving towards the summer.
We've got other stuff coming up obviously, then you know World Team Camp,

(01:30:13):
and before actually before World Team Camp, they got the Hungarian Grand Prix in
July, so plenty to look forwardto. Please support our athletes, and
yeah, okay, so social mediaconcerns, social media concerns, of course,
why not? Okay, So RyanEpps, you can follow Ryan Epps
on Instagram at Ryan dot EPs oneR y A n dot Epps the number

(01:30:40):
one at the end of that,Dennis All. You can follow Dennisa on
Twitter at Dennisall wg W. I'mnot even making jokes this time. I
just want to run through this andon Instagram at World Gold Wrestling. And
as always, for USA, GRECand Roman news and athlete perspectives, please
go to five point dot com andas always, follow along on Twitter at

(01:31:02):
five the Number five P Team movie. Thanks for listening, everybody, and
we'll see you soon.