5PM57: Kamal Bey and David Stepanyan

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I'll look for Amat, stop worryingabout stupid procedures and do pull up this
morning the balls and can shop withCree. Why are we having a podcast,
the one you call the five PointMove. I'm frustrated with the way
our GRECA guys for United States aretrue and because we are good athletes have
good humming beans, but Rata win. We gotta help. We did that

(00:26):
what I want people know me fromall of our results where everything comes from
five point Move. Hello and welcometo episode fifty seven of the Five Point
Move Podcast. I'm sim Hans,founder and senior editor for five point move
dot com. And just like theprevious episode, which featured two guests,

(00:48):
so too does E fifty seven.By the way I swung it missed on
E fifty six. Gosh, it'sthat number. That's the jersey number for
the greatest defensive player in the historyof the National Foot League and two times
Super Bowl champion, Lawrence Taylor.Should have mentioned it. Should have mentioned
it. He fifty seven has aman who was just in the news for

(01:11):
Greco Roman Wrestling purposes, that is, who has voted the twenty twenty three
five point Move back late of theyear that was selection via committee. He
was also voted the Impact Performer fortwenty twenty three and also took home the

(01:32):
award for Outstanding Individual Performance for thePan American Games, where he earned gold.
That man, of course, haswon mister Kamal Bay and Kamal Bay
is featured. He hasn't been onthe program since I think it's been some
years. We'll call it twenty seventeen, so after the Junior world when he

(01:55):
won the Junior Worlds. I meanobviously we covered so with all all the
time, but you know, justdoing this, he hasn't been on and
he is full of important interesting insights, philosophical perspectives, and he does some
reflection too, of course, justone athlete of the years. We talk
a little bit about the year prior, and it's just it's always fun talking

(02:20):
to Kamal and guess what before andmove on to talk about who our second
guest is. Kamal wants to comeback on and be a guest host and
sharpen his own interview skills. Andcurrently as of today, they're all heading
over to Croatia. So upon hisarrival home, that's something we're looking to
do. Locking it down and thedeal is is that we'll do two guests.

(02:46):
He picks a guest and I picka guest and we'll just go from
there. And obviously this is somethingwe've done before. Joe Row has been
part of this, so that's whatwe're gonna do with mister Bay. But
he's in segment two. And comingup in segment one is David Stepanion from
Northern Michigan's National Training Site NMU.What was Stapanion twenty twenty one U twenty

(03:07):
three World team member, U twentythree national champion last year right and twenty
twenty one. He was also aSenior Open finalist and World Team Trials finalist,
and at the national tournament in December, Stepanion got himself qualified for the
Olympic Trials following an awesome impressive perseveranceperformance. I mean, is there any

(03:30):
other type. That's what it takesagain into the Olympic Trials. You don't
just walk in there and say hey, I'm in Nope, got to earn
your way there, and that's whatStepanion did. At the nationals. He
had some really impressive matches, oneof which was against Pat Smith, a
really tough, tough match against PatSmith a four pointer in the first period,

(03:52):
but it was a tough match.Peyton o'mannia in the semi final.
And we also talk about Duncan Nelson, who David had to get past a
couple of times, and they're closefriends, and even I myself have a
particular fondness for mister Nelson, andso we kind of cover what it's like
having to compete against someone you're closewith or at least friends with, and
they're actually close. And look,that's something Greco Roman wrestlers in the United

(04:15):
States of America as well as aroundthe world deal with pretty regularly, but
still something worth talking about. Andthen David actually has some stuff to share
about Armenia. He's from an Armenianfamily. He's in Armenia as this episode
releases, training alongside Peyton Jacobson anda bunch of Armenians. But Stepanion,

(04:38):
Yeah, he talks about the differencesand systems and development, and you know
what, let's not even just wastetime. Let's just get right to it
and bring in mister Stepanion. Herewhere I want to start? Where do
I want to start? Where doI want to start? Well, let's
start with New York because you wereone of the nominees for Outstanding Individual Performance

(05:01):
on our platform's year end Awards.And I thought certainly rightfully so considering the
circumstances in New York at the BillFarrell Memorial, you know, maybe you
want to describe this for the audience, Uh, that way, I don't

(05:23):
mess it up too badly. Butyou actually had to peace out default the
tournament. Uh. I think itwas like your shoulder, your arm or
what what exactly was the injury atthat tournament November. So when I was

(05:45):
grestling the Georgian guy in the quarterfinals, we were towards the edge of the
mat and he had I had alreadypushed him out, and then he was
doing it. He had went toan armspin as A was all of me
like pushing into him, but theaction had already been like concluded by the
referee, so I didn't think muchof it. So then he just kept

(06:10):
like torquing my shoulder as a wewere out of bounds. So I peaked
my shoulder kind of bad there,but yeah, I mean it wasn't yeah
that's really and then yeah kind ofhad the medical staff look at and stuff.
And then I mean, yeah,that was that was that. I

(06:31):
mean it kind of it was adefinitely hurt, really bad. It wasn't
it wasn't pleasant, for sure itwas, but did some good rehab following
it and just constant h follow upwith it and we're it's good now.

(06:51):
And then given my background too andlike medical, so well that was about
you're, uh, would you gradyou graduated with your nursing stuff. Oh
yeah, just got I actually graduatedthe day we competed in for Worth,

(07:12):
So okay, So that's what Iwas going to ask you, is that,
like I would guess that you havea better than casual understanding of the
human anatomy when you got injured andcame back and started rehabbing. I don't
know you had assistance I'm sure fromindividuals, training staff, from ever.

(07:34):
I don't have any idea really,but like, at the same time,
did you yourself understand how you wantto to treat the injury? Well,
I just talked to my staffs areactually really good. It's great. Big
shout out to Cora. Of course. Cora is a great in our training

(07:54):
staff. We have like university studentsthat also work there too, that are
getting their masters so that's a greatsystem there we have. And then yeah,
I was just consulting with them andjust a bunch of like exercises to
do and when to rast i,et cetera. Just just around the clock
for on the clock care is basicallywhat we're doing. So and it feels

(08:18):
great now, So no issues atall with it, So very thankful for
that. And then how long betweenNew York and Fort Worth did it start
coming around? And the only reasonwhy I ask is obviously it was a
pretty short turnaround. November seventeen wasNew York and December fifteen and sixteen was

(08:43):
Fort Worth, So that's four weeks. How long into your you know,
abbreviated rehab process did you start feelinglike you're you know, I'm going to
be just fine, you know,as what I don't know about one hundred
percent, but close enough to itto do what you did in that tournament,
you know, I just I justknew I was gonna be fine too,

(09:03):
Like I felt. There was obviouslyno tears or anything else. Felt
the tear it'd be like super painfuland stuff. So just knowing, just
knowing every day it felt a littlebetter was super reassuring. For me,
and also just you could like testyour limits a little bit too, Like
I would grab a partner and justlike, hey, like can we just
go with like a little like likea little thing just so I can feel

(09:26):
my shoulder before it could really intoit. And I mean it wasn't good.
New York was the first opportunity totry and qualify for the Olympic team
trials. That was your first shotand you weren't able to do it because
of what we just talked about inpart. And you have to get it

(09:50):
done in New York, I meanNew York fort Worth. I mean,
sure there's a last chance qualifier,which you know, you've been through that
experience before. Nobody wants to haveto wait till last chance qualifiers. On
top of that, like you're aguy who and I don't mean to say
this and against anybody else. It'snot slight, I don't mean it that
way, but you're a top athlete. You should be in the Olympic Trials.

(10:13):
That's how I kind of see it. So still Fort Worth, this
is where you, you know,punch your ticket here. And you obviously
had teammate first round in mac Cheryland then Duncan Nelson Spalliers, and then
you had that semi final match withPeton o'mannia, which was I mean,

(10:37):
as an observer, highly entertaining andexciting in this speed in which you guys
both moved. Was I mean itwas a highlight of that round. Probably
you almost had it. It wasa sequence in the second period where everybody

(11:03):
standing around there thought those points wereyours, and I think everybody watching thought
those points were yours. And thenit gets challenged, called back, and
then all of a sudden it's himwho has I want to say, a
seven to five lead if I'm notmistaken. Look, this tournament winds up

(11:24):
ending with you getting the job done. But for those who remember that match,
and certainly to satisfy my own curiosity, since I haven't talked to you
about it, what exactly did youthink had transpired in that particular sequence and
what was your reaction when the pointswent the other way? Well, what

(11:50):
I had thought was that obviously Ihad gotten around and gotten the points by
after the after the challenge, Iguess there was something about my knee being
up or my foot out of bounds, some something along those lines, which

(12:11):
I don't know, I'm not reallygonna question the the council with the referees
decision was at the end of theday, I mean, I shouldn't have
put it in their hands, soit's, uh, it's ultimately there.
I made mistakes in the match thatthat I shouldn't have prior that put me

(12:35):
in the hole that I was in. So so I mean, I'm not
going to look at their decision andsay it their fault inherently like at all,
I would just say I need tolike watch that match and then learn
what mistakes I made and then goand practice those and learn from it.

(13:00):
Well, I can tell you oneperson who would be very pleased with that
answer, and that would certainly becoach Andrew T. B Sick of coorse.
Well, you rebounded though, didn'tyou, Dave. I mean you
rebounded here. I don't know howyou feel about it. But Pat Smith,

(13:20):
you know he's one of my favorites. You had not wrestled him previously,
and yeah, I'm sure you understoodhis you know, his methods,
his mo his reputation. That wasquite a four pointer in that first period

(13:41):
of just for me, if notfor everyone listening. What was it like
wrestling Pat Smith and that kind ofspot. What did you feel, what
did you feel in the second period, and also how to feel getting that
kind of win and that sort ofspot in the tournament. But yeah,

(14:01):
Pat, you know, he's agreat competitor. He's always gonna bring his
one all the time. So Iknow that, or I knew that rather
going into the match, and uh, you know, I knew it was
gonna be it's gonna be a hardsix minutes. It's gonna be very it's
gonna be super hard six minutes,a lot of pumbling, a lot of

(14:22):
positional work. You know, It'severy match is like a different sort of
you know, he has like amore unique set, I would say,
compared to like the average American GrecoRoman wrestler, where he can break certain
people with his tumbling ability. Ofcourse he could break people with his pumbling

(14:43):
ability and just from there just mallthem. But going into the match,
I knew what he was going totry to do, so I feel like
I was ready for that, andyeah it was. It was a g
pretty match. I mean that's that'show it goes though, So it was

(15:03):
definitely gritty, but we pulled itoff and Yeah, it definitely definitely wasn't
gritty. Okay, two things,I got to correct the record because you
actually wrestled Pat before Amania. Isthat not right? Yeah? Okay,
so that's insane now that I thinkabout it, I've forgotten that. And

(15:24):
I was there for both of thosematches, certainly. I think I saw
all your matches in person and fortWorth first off, I did. That's
wild going against Pat and Omania backto back. Since quite very loud about
your conditioning. That's a lot whenthey're stick of weight classes. That's how

(15:46):
it is. It's the Olympic yereyou know you were talking about eighty seven
earlier. Yeah, I was likea Gong show too. Like everything classes,
it starts getting greasy. So that'show of that. That's how that
goes. I mean, you're goingto see some good guys early and see
some good you just gotta be ready. Do you call what you did against

(16:10):
Pat the Herman correct? Yes,Yeah, there was a period of there
was a period of time when Iwas avoiding writing it that way, not
because of any other reason than thefact that many people who read recaps do

(16:33):
not you know, they might notknow vernacular, and they might not know
what moves are called and so forth. So I didn't know how to describe
it, and I would consult withpeople. I mean, I have my
brain trust. If I if I'mkind of, you know, flummixed over
a technique, I will There's acertain number of people I go to to

(17:00):
sort of bounce this stuff around with. And there was a periods of it.
I was calling it like an invertedarm throw because I didn't know another
way to describe it. But yeah, after a while, like it's just
like I just write Herman, Ijust put I put in quotations instead of

(17:21):
like if I ever, so Ijust write salto. But Herman is like
so unique. So it's just like, yeah, uh that well, you
know one thing about hat is he'sgonna bring forward pressure. Oh yeah,
yeah, yeah, it was definitelyit was. It was a gritty match

(17:41):
and that way it was. Ienjoyed it though. I enjoyed the pumbling
aspect of it too. You don'treally see that, especially in the American
tournaments, for people to just keepcoming and coming forward. So it was
kind of nice. It was likewrestling, uh like almost like a Hungarian
wrestler in that perspect Oh, Ithink that's an excellent approximation. Yeah,

(18:07):
like a central European style of specificallyhungry is they're very like closed and come
forward too. Yeah, yes,that's that area. Now, Duncan Nelson,
who is a good friend of yoursand was a teammate for a time
at Northern, you had to dealwith him twice and you obviously defeated him

(18:36):
both times. And I know whatkind of competitor you are. In fact,
I want to actually touch on thatin a minute here, But it
can't be easy, ken it.I mean, you've certainly wrestled plenty of
teammates and friends before, and I'mnot trying to over romanticize that, but

(18:56):
Duncan is somebody different, and youknow how much he wanted this too,
and now he's going to have towait for last chance. How do you
do that as a competitor when yougo against someone who you have a personal
affinity for and it's like, wellit's going to be one of us,

(19:17):
I guess, But like, howdo you yourself deal with that? Because
everybody seems to have their own wayof doing that right to start? Yeah,
me and Duncan very close friends.Actually this past year in May when
there was the World Team Trials inColorado spring, I stayed with him for

(19:41):
probably I lived with him for threeweeks, maybe three and a half weeks
even before that tournament. So sogetting ready at the OTC at the time
for the for the World Team Trialssince it was I didn't want to altitude
issues before I got there. Soyeah, very close friends. But yeah,

(20:03):
ever dunk in three times now actuallyI've assume first round of the Bill
Ferrell and then these last two timesat Nationals. But yeah, Duncan also,
is you mentioning fierce competitor. He'salso a very fierce competitor. He
had a really good tournament even atthe Bill Ferrell too. On the back

(20:26):
side, that's a really good wayalso here too in Dallas. But as
far as like mindset going into amatch, I don't differentiate any matches like
just because I'm wrestling a friend orcould be even like someone I don't know

(20:49):
at all. It's just it's allthe same mentality going in and just just
do what just I'm going to wrestlemy match and that's it. I'm gonna
try to wrestle all my little tacticalpieces, and yeah, I mean,

(21:11):
it's not I don't put any worthof a how do you say it,
like like stakes, like higher stakeson a certain match than a particular one,
If that makes sense, makes onehundred sense to me. Yeah,
oh, you saying that? Yousaying that is one reason, not the

(21:38):
only, but one reason I saidthis in the last episode. It's one
reason why I think the United Statesgrec and Roman program by itself, according
to the or under the auspices ofthe prestigious Grek and Roman Sports Committee.
Ha ha ha ha ha, weneed to abolish seating. We need to

(22:03):
abolish seating because, as you're saying, which is by the way, mathematically
provable, there's no round of atournament that is rated at a higher value
than any other. There's not likeyou can't have a final without a round
of sixteen, right, So yeah, like, and if you want even

(22:27):
a better example, and I cango on, and I'm not going with
to because this is it's not thetime I want to concentrate on you.
But it's like, we just gotdone talking about sixty seven, and you
know, let's go sixty seven,seventy seven, eighty seven. Where where

(22:48):
did seating matter in these brackets?Where show me, show me like it
just okay, maybe there are certainearly early round matches where you know a
top seed's going against someone who youknow is barely getting going in this style.
But like, other than that,like pretty much everywhere you look,

(23:08):
there's credible matchups like it. Justyou're gonna wrestle who you're gonna wrestle.
We're the only country that obsesses overseats. It's bonkers. It's also counterproductive
competitively. It totally is. ButI'm not going to go into it.

(23:30):
I'm not going to go into it. I mean, I it's just it
bugs me out totally, like atthis point anyway. But there's a lot
of people who disagree with me too, so maybe they're smarter at any rate.
You close off fort Worth. Thatwas two weeks ago. We're in
the holiday break, I guess.But for you, your holiday break is

(23:56):
not going to last quite as longas some others because you are you know
you're going to I guess your family'shomeland coming up very soon, right,
So let's talk about Armenia for init here. Yeah, So I'm gonna
be going January fifth. I'll bethere for about two weeks with Peyton Jacobsen,

(24:23):
so me and him will be goingthere and they have a they have
a two week camp there with thesenior team, and then Poland will be
there as well, and maybe Estonia. So I'm super excited about that,
just because I an't Arminian, soI'm really close with all the coaches and

(24:45):
athletes there. I keep in touchwith them, So Ali going there just
because I have a familiarity with them, and yeah, just it's exciting stuff
and then there's a new stuff towork on or molt tweaks here and there.
It's just there are some world classcoaches there and also speak the language,

(25:10):
so there's no language barrier. Andyeah, I'm super stoked about that.
I'm super excited. When you goahead and you know, wrestle and
train or spend time with your fellowArmenians. What is their take on the

(25:32):
American wrestling system we'll call it howyou know, we typically don't start in
this discipline until later on, atleast not on a full time basis.
And you know, there's you'd behard pressed to find an American Greco Roman
wrestler who doesn't have traces of folkstyle in their skill sets. So what

(25:55):
do you notice that they have tosay about it, if if anything,
I mean, I'm sure that theyhave stuff to say. I would imagine,
right, So what I've what talkingto, like the coaches and athletes
and stuff. So obviously they don'thave folks style there. So from a
young age, there's a hundreds ofsports schools throughout Armenia and general in like

(26:23):
clubs and stuff. So whenever you'regoing to like start, we'll say like
probably like eight around there, maybeseven eight years old, you're either going
to pick a freestyle wrestling or GrecoRoman wrestling, and then that that you
there's no mixing the styles there isunheard of. It's a Armenia's it's like

(26:49):
still it's very the system there isvery the Soviet Union system. It's a
very traditional wrestling system that my numbersis probably the best system in the world.
I produced the most world and theOlympic champions the Soviet Union wrestling system.

(27:10):
You know, all of Europe usedit, and the Cubans also have
that same system intact. So they'llchoose one system or one star, one
style, whether that be freestyle orGreco Roman wrestling, and then that's the
only style they wrestled their whole life. If you ask a coach when I

(27:32):
went, and I went when Iwas younger too, in my kid at
days, and they're like, well, what style do you wrestle? I
was like, oh, I doboth, and they're like what. They're
like dumbfounded. They were shots thatlike I was doing both style, was
like, no, no, youhave to pick one. There's so there.
It's just like it even goes throughtheir head. There's I never ran

(27:53):
into an athlete there that did bothfreestyle and greco al together. They were
they were in one specific discipline ofthe sport, so it's it's perceived as
normal here, but there, it'sjust like it's like a it's like a
shock. They're almost surprised when yousay that. Oh no, it's unheard

(28:17):
of everywhere else pretty much. Uhdo they notice when you wrestle around with
them? Do they notice any kindof habits or tendencies that you have that
might be derived from folk style?Yeah? When yeah, they say a
lot of stuff that I do likein my stance, especially like motion,

(28:41):
it's like a lot of freestyle,a lot of freestyle motions. So it's
kind of funny going there. TheyThey'll always joke around with me and like
say, like, like, you'rebasically like a freestyle wrestler because you're like
the way you don't the way Imove my like during the matches or something
so of funny. Yeah, you'reloose, that's for sure. You're not

(29:03):
like all bottled up into a bunchof knots. But that's also something I
think that works really well for you. Like you do create a lot of
motion. That's part of what youdo. Yeah, I mean there's pros
and cons every single you know,style of restling. I would say,
some more than others, some lessthan others. Yeah, And I think

(29:26):
there's a philosophical thing I played too, maybe not in totality, but certainly
when it comes to whatever era ofrules that we're in, because currently at
the highest reaches of the sport,I mean, yeah, there's scores from
the feet, but ultimately this isa turn and not get turned sport,

(29:48):
I mean ultimately, and so wealways point to that as the main American
weakness. Part tair, particularly parthair bottom, if any think, but
definitely partterer overall. And the waythat I sometimes defend the American program is

(30:08):
I will quickly say well, partt air bottom is pretty much a weakness
for every program on the planet,because if it were not, passivity would
not include part twer as a stipulation, right, That's why it's in the
rule set, Make no mistake aboutit. In fact, passivity is not

(30:30):
looked at as a penalty. It'slooked at as a mechanism for match stimulation,
which we have backwards here America.We have a tendency to think of
passivity as paste driven, tempo driven, leg driving and so on. It's
like, well, great, butthe thing is is that if you're just
hawking over on a wrist and notreally doing too much with it, you

(30:51):
can go ahead and control zone andwalts a guy around the place as much
as you want. But that doesnot necessarily mean you're not passive either.
Like it's nuance, and that getslost in translation here, particularly among a
group of our officials. In fact, they think of passivity as just run
a guy around whoever's like the mostactive. It's like, well, you

(31:14):
can be active and also not doanything either. It's not quite the same.
That's why when you watch and youknow, obviously you know far better
than ninety nine percent of the countryit's like, that's why when you watch
we'll stick with Europe because Asia theyactually score a little bit more on the
feet comparatively, especially in the lighterweight classes. But that's why I enjoy

(31:37):
watching Europe is because it's so muchmore tension a lot of times, I
mean, one little peek out awindow from an under hook and guys are
like fighting like mad because they don'twant to get caught on that passive,
you know what I mean. Imean when you watch matches like that you
mentioned, like to the naked eye, it just looks like two guys just

(32:02):
like pushing each other, but liketo like people that know the sport,
if you like actually like analyze whatthey're doing. There's so many little minute
details in their motion that you wouldhave never even like that like thought of.

(32:22):
It's all important, it's all partof the it's all part of the
match, but it's just those littleminute some of them I don't even recall.
There's a lot of minute, littledetails that the Europeans, specifically that
tumble well, there's a lot oflittle details in the pummel that definitely as

(32:46):
a country we need to work on. David, who do you like to
watch. And this is more offun pr type of question. Who in
our country do you enjoy watching themost? You have to come up with
like a you know a short listof guys when you're whether you're at a
tournament, whether they're in your bracket, whatever it is. But who do

(33:08):
you from our country do you liketo watch the most? I like to
watch definitely Benji, let's think.Yeah, definitely Benji. He's just high
flyer, fighting big points. Maybesay something after the match, you know,

(33:29):
yeah, say something after the match, so it's always exciting. I
like watching Peyton too and out PeytonJacobson hit him on his feet just so
so like, how do you say? It's so tight the whole time?
It's crazy comal To. I likewatching Kamal same aspect, like high flying.

(33:54):
I do like watching Max Max BlackAlan Great, he'sn't even eighty seven
anymore, but Alan? You likewatching Alan as well? Yeah? Yeah,
that's that's Those are like the guysthat look out for in the tournaments.
I try not to watch like anymatches, to be honest, but

(34:15):
afterwards, when I'm like watching onlike the computer, like replays and stuff,
those are like the people I'll likethey'll single out and watch. It's
a pretty good list, pretty goodbest. One thing I did want to
double back to is your competitiveness,which is something that both on the record

(34:37):
and behind your back. I guess, if we're going to put it that
way, I've spoken about I've alwaysbeen impressed, especially over the course of
the past we'll say three years andchange, since you've really like stepped up
as a senior. I think thatyou have like the kind of competitive attitude
that a lot of people, especiallyyounger wrestlers, should try to emulate.

(35:00):
In order to do what you doand to perform at the level that you
perform. There's a lot of littlethings that you need to compart and mentalize
and prioritize on a given basis.I was just wondering considering that you do
you do have like this just wonderfuloutlook on the kind of work you need
to put in. How do youadjust your mindset? Here give you an

(35:22):
example. Right now, we're aboutto hit January. You're going to go
to Armenia for you know, acouple of weeks. I don't know if
you're going to compete in anything beforethe Olympic trials, but even if you
do. Your priority right now isto make the Olympic team. So while
you might go in a tournament andtry to win it, ultimately whatever happens

(35:43):
happens, because the goal is stillthe Olympic Trials, I would imagine.
So how do you shift your attitude, your focus, your mindset during a
training block, especially one in whichwe're looking at the better part of four
months here specifically talking about this January, I would say the goal for this
January is too, well, rightnow, I'm in like holiday so I'm

(36:08):
just working out and not even reallywrestling related, you know, just keeping
relative shape right now since the holidays. But following this, going ar Mania,
the goal obviously is to just consultwith some I'm very close with some

(36:29):
of the coaches national team aside,like club coaches that have been coaching since
before I was even born and fordecades and Decay's see not like how many
wrestlers they've had, and you know, there's very credential people. So the
goal there is to consult with them, you know, try to talk about,

(36:54):
like consult with like what mistakes Imade through the tournament, and then
just trying to identify stuff I canwork on at that point and then like
remembering that stuff, writing it downand then just consistently I usually write it

(37:15):
down in my phone or even better, I just video it as have someone's
video the technique. It's like I'mdoing it and then I can just look
at that technique back on my phone. But usually I don't. These last
before these the Nationals, my dadand Carra Petchalian. You you definitely know

(37:38):
him the Yeah, So they bothcame up to the Marquette and for about
a week before before the Nationals ortwo weeks before the Nationals. That stuff
the next week and then we alsohad kind of like a consultation type of
thing like that too, where wasjust looking over like my strong points and

(38:04):
working on stuff I'm not as strongat. So I think stuff like that
is super helpful. Definitely, Ihad a chance to like really like analyze
stuff with both of them. Bothof them have being like great wrestling minds,
so and yeah, really working withItalian specifically. He also came last

(38:29):
year before the opener, remember pictures, there was all sorts of excitement on
the part of your coaching staff.Oh yeah, and then he was in
Colorado with me too before senior trivels. So working with him along with like
Andy and Parker such a it wasvery good. It was just that specific

(38:55):
specific attention to detail that you know, since we have like forty guys in
the room, it's hard to givea specific specific attention because there's so many
people like wrestling at once. Itwas personally it was super helpful for me
and Collie MDI like an absolute rockon his feet and very good parterer movements,

(39:17):
and I think it was very helpfulfor my development into like a like
a senior like into like a seniorlevel Gretico Roman athlete because a lot of
the times I felt like I wouldbe a little too dancy or like that
folk style tendency were talking about itearlier. So I feel like having like

(39:44):
him and Andy around, like twoguys that were absolutely rocks, like made
of stone on their feet really helpedme. Uh really helped me on.
Yeah, how'd I say move moreto lega senior level of Greco Roman wrestling?

(40:10):
Okay, and joining me now here? He is Ladies and Gentlemen,
two thousand and seventeen Junior World Champion, three times Senior World Team member,
six times US National champion, twentytwenty three Pan am Championship gold, in
two thousand and twenty three Pan AmericanGames gold, camal Bay. So what

(40:32):
would you say is your personal highlightfrom two thousand and twenty three, whether
we're talking about one tournament as awhole or reflect to sort of isolate it
into one match even, Like,what would you say, off the top
of your head would be your personalhighlight of the past year. I think

(40:55):
I would say my personal highlight thispast year is that I completed my time
goal. On my list, it'snot a huge list of just five things
that I want to do, wantto accomplish, and my top goal was
just to finish. Like I rememberstarting out the year after twenty twenty two,
you know, it was in firstround at the World Championships and I
was like, man, I hadso much less in the tank after I

(41:17):
wrestled, after I wrestled from Serbia. Yeah, so clarify that for the
audience, Come on real quick.It's not like you wrestled somebody who's number
three in Slovakia, wrestled not atall, World champions World champ, Olympic
bronze medalist. The guy is agood wrestler. But for me, when
I look back at that match,I was so disappointed in myself. Not

(41:42):
because I lost. You know,a loss is a loss, it is
what it is. You know,you're supposed to get better from those you
supposed to take them whatever. ButI was upset because I had so much
in the tank and I didn't doanything. Like I got on that mat
and I like, I got onthat mat and I got off. I
didn't try one thing, not oneor ten. I did not wrestle like
camal Bay rustles. You know.So that that that that stuck with me

(42:08):
for a little bit. That onedidn't that that loss was probably the worst
out I've had in a long time, because all I can remember is my
coaches, like my childhood coach istalking about you know, the scores won
one or the scores one zero,you lost one zero. You didn't try
anything, You didn't try anything,you lost one zero. That's exactly and

(42:28):
that's how I felt. So afterthat match, right then and there,
I remember I'm sitting sitting at thefreaking table in Servia eating KFC chicken KS
chicken. To make me feel better, I said, I will never feel
like this again. I told ivowedthat I would never feel like this again.

(42:49):
And I was like, I don'tcare what tournament I'm at. If
I started, I'm finishing it.That's that's that's the bottom line. If
I start, I'm gonna finish.And then sure enough, first tournament of
the year, I go to Croatiaand I blew my knee against my first
match against the kid from China.I'm he's gonna be imagine how I felt
bro I was ballistic. I waslike, ain't there's no way like I

(43:15):
was. I was so in shape, I felt so good, everything was
going good, and I freaking blewmy knee. So now in my mind,
I'm thinking I didn't get to finishthat one. So then I had
a second, a second goal tothat list. The second thing is that
no matter what, no matter whathappens to me, I'm gonna get up.

(43:37):
I'm gonna get up. I rememberpeople telling me, oh, yeah,
you know, going to the specialistwhatever they're telling me, yea,
you're getting knee surgery, lcl MC, all that stuff gone. You know,
when this is gone, gone?Everything he said, My aco,
my a C was the only thingI was attached. And I remember limping
out of that room, like andI was just so angry at the world
because I'm like, I'm not aboutto sit out for god knows how long

(43:59):
another six eight months, Like Ijust got back a year ago. So
my second goal was like, nomatter what happens to me, I'm always
gonna get up, I'm always gonnaget up. And about a week and
a half later, you know,they're telling me that you know you're gonna
go through rehab, I threw onbrace on and I went right back out
there and I started, you know, you just at some point you just

(44:22):
gotta get you gotta get tougher thanthe energy. You gotta really think about
how bad you want it. AndI wanted it so bad I like I
said, I never wanted to feellike that again, Like I just had
Like I just didn't give anything,like I didn't try anything, Like I
was boring, Like you know,come on, bad boy, it just
doesn't mix. It doesn't sound goodin my head. And I know I'm
so much tougher than that, somuch tougher, like and I got,

(44:45):
you know, even more, likeI got young dudes on the team now,
Like the WCAT program has been sogood to me, and these guys
on my team, like they're likemy younger brothers, man, And if
I'm sitting there getting slapped around,like they're gonna think it's okay to just
sit there and get slapped. Know, they canna think if you get hurt,
it's okay to just lay there.It's not okay, It's not you

(45:06):
know, I meant it when Isaid that. You know, I'm the
leader of the team. I'm theleader of you all. Stay gregl you
know, this was this was likethis is my brother's inheritance, this is
my inheritance now. And like whenpeople step on the mat with me,
like yeah, you should be afraidbecause for that sixth whole minutes, like
I'm coming after you, man.Like I felt like crap at this World
Championship. I remember throwing up rightbefore I went out there and competed like

(45:30):
it was bad. It was,it was bad. But you know,
and that brings me to my tomy third you know, like you don't
get my third go is like youdon't get to you don't get to pick
your days. You know, allyou can do is show up. And
I showed up that day. Igave everything I had, you know,
six minutes. You know, whenI lost my second match at the World
Championship. You know, Guto feltthat. Man, he went out there

(45:51):
and he didn't have anything left togo rather than the college stand and do
with and you know, for somepeople, you know, they're like,
oh, you know, you're atthe tournament. But for me, that
made me feel better because I knowthat he didn't have anything left. At
my worst, I had, Ihad a group chat of people to help
me cut weight because I was off, Like they had me on anti diarrheu
hill. I couldn't lose anything forday two. I remember I had to

(46:13):
wake up at four am run eightmiles to make wait the second day.
Like people don't, dude, don'ttalk about that. But that's the That's
the type of grit that I wantmy younger brothers to have. That's the
type of grit that I want Brittento have, I want Spencer Wood to
have. I won't Juice to have. I want Billy to have, you
know, like those other guys whoscore coming up after me. So yeah,

(46:34):
like I said, like, Ijust wanted to finish, and I
made that my goal for every match, every every term that I went to
I didn't care how big or howsmall, Like I just wanted to finish,
and it helped me grow so much. It helped me grow so much
out there, Like looking at myhands, I just feel freaking unbeatable sometimes,
Like the challenges that I used tothink were hard are hard anymore.

(46:55):
Like when when your goal is justto finish, like you're not worried about
anything else. It doesn't matter aboutmaking it look pretty, is about getting
the job done. And I've hadsome pretty hard five matches against some pretty
hard five dudes this year, Likelike you know, after that correction tournament,
I think I medaled at every tournamentI went to this year because just
because I had the mindset to finishwell correct. And the one thing that

(47:22):
sticks out too is that you don'tget to pick your day's part, because
I know that is something that coachSpencer Mango has said in the past.
Two guys. You know, there'sa story about him even telling Max Nari
that a couple of years ago atthe Nationals, Nari, you know,
didn't feel great whatever was going on. He's like, Okay, well you

(47:45):
might not feel great at the World'seither, you know what I mean.
And yeah, it's it's logical.I mean, at the very least,
don't get to pick those days.Man, you know, all you can
do is shoot the show up.Look at Max Snowy made that a big
deal, Like he made that abig deal to me, like when he

(48:06):
was talking about it, and it'syou know, it's funny though, because
did you bring up the contrast afterZagreb in January and meddling the rest of
the time here And it's like Ithought, now, Comal, I'm not
going to make an excuse on yourbehalf for twenty nineteen PanAm Championships because you're

(48:30):
not gonna want me to. Idid a look at I even did a
video on it at the time aboutthe officiating at the PanAm Championships. You
against the penya Yeah, I doopinion man, and that guy right there
dude, oh man, yeah.Yeah. It's like, you know,

(48:52):
getting him what twice this year Ithought was important because I think it was
pretty obvious in twenty nineteen that youwere, you know, going to beat
him forgetting even the finals matches.Just like I mean, just looking at

(49:14):
it objectively, not with not throughthe lens of American bias. Just if
you're looking at two athletes, it'slike okay, like if we know how
the rules are and like it's okay, we kind of figure who should win
here. But he's tough and he'sgood, and he's strong, and he's
athletic, and he's beaten a lotof really really good guys himself. He's

(49:36):
a really stout opponent and he hadtwo like really good matches with him this
year. You know, PanAm Championshipswas important, but getting a PanAm Games
gold is extra important. That's acornerstone event for our program in the PanAm
Games. And those matches against Panywere like really, I mean, I
can't even imagine what it must havebeen like to be you in there.

(49:59):
Like they were like pretty hard hitting, frenetic kind of matches. I'll get
his opinion, yeah, first time, like yeah, like twenty nineteen,
it's whatever, Like you said,like I'm not gonna sit here, and
you know, cry boo who aboutit? Like it was blatant. They
stayed up, took the match fromme. It's just like ridiculous to pause
after the challenge and everything like it. I was like okay, yeah,

(50:22):
you wait till thirty seconds was lessand you can call the challenge from like
two minutes ago. It's just likeit's crazy. So that's the Oh so
you do remember very quick? Well, good for all they should have just
do like he just he just woneverything, bro when he beat me in
twenty nineteen. Man, he hadan interview about how he beat me.
I was just like, I wasso angry. And he doesn't like me

(50:43):
for the record either, Like Idon't know why he doesn't like me,
but a lot of the South Americancountry guys don't like me for some reason.
They probably having a Beatamal big Campright now that we was speaking.
That's not a joke. It's nota joke. It's not a joke.
It's not a joke because now thatI be them twice, you know,
like all of them are gonna pullup. They all pulling up the Croatian
now. You know, they're tryingto get ranking points because they got this

(51:05):
freaking psychotic way of of seeing.Now at the Pan American I'm the qualifiers,
so oh yeah, it's it's gonnabe wild, but you know,
I'm getting I'm prepared for everything.It is what it is. You know,
like, hey, you don't getto choose your brackets either. You
know, that's ractor Roman. Wecould redraw it any other way, it's
gonna look the same body. That'sright, you know what I'm saying.

(51:28):
So hey, go out there andyou know, give it your best shot
type deal. But yeah, hedoesn't like me at all. So the
next time I wrestle with him,I want it, like in my heart,
so like I always tell people,you know, spring can't come from
a place of aggression. It comesfrom being calm and collective and focused,
and that's where you find yourself inbeing your strongest right, So in my

(51:50):
heart, like I wanted to,you know, I wanted to, you
know, bite this dude's head off. Like this dude thinks he's all that
like and he's not. Like thefact that that match happened the way it
happened, and he felt that heactually won that match. It drove me
insane. So the second time Iwrestled him, the second time I wrestled
him, I wanted to beat him, just like he beat me. He
didn't do anything nothing the first time, not one thing, and he thinks

(52:16):
that's an astablishment. So the secondtime, like they put me down.
He couldn't do anything with me whatever, I get back on my feet,
they put me down, whatever theychallenge it, I'm up to one.
I could have taken it. Icould have taken him down as many times
as I wanted. This dude,once he has to open up, it's
a completely different match for me,because you know, people are really good

(52:37):
pumplers. But in my mind,I'm the world's best wrestler. And if
you got to wrestle me, you'rein a you're in a crazy situation.
You got to rustle, Like Itell people all the time, Like,
you know, six minutes, I'mlike, for some people, that's a
long time, that's a scary time. Six minutes for me is dangerous.
You never know what's gonna happen.I'm always looking for opportunities to throw you.

(52:57):
I'm always looking for opportunities to pushyou to your back. You know.
That's a hard match. And I'mmaster, and I'm master pumbling for
myself, and I don't get tiredno more. I keep go. You
can go. Once you learn howto pumble, you can those guys and
women, You're not gonna get tiredno more. You're not like I haven't
after Croatia, Like I'm gonna sayeven before Croatian and Crasism, I felt

(53:19):
good. You know, he's justwith my knee. But after that,
like I felt good all my tournaments. Man, just breathing. Well,
it's a it's a completely different game, completely different game. I don't think
I've been exhausted in one match.I wrestled this entire this entire year.
But yeah, like I just wantto beat him the same way he beat
me the first time, and thenthe second time and then the third time
we wrestled at the Pan American Games. You know, I made a lot

(53:44):
of mistakes. That was that wasn'teven me at my best, Like I
me and I ain't tried to myown hear or anything, but I was.
I was pretty jacked up leading upto it. Man, freaking chest
pains everything, neck pains, andI'm like, who you don't want to
Yeah, and you know you goback to that Spencer stuff. You know,
you don't get to choose your daylike it answered didn't feel like it
was my day. But I justI just wrestle, wrestle with my head,

(54:07):
rustle with my head. It pushedwith my heart man, and working
out for me. You bring upa really interesting point that you know,
maybe people in around Greco understand,and certainly, and I'll get to this,
certainly people in Europe understand. Buteven the general American wrestling public who

(54:32):
knows you and watches you but mightnot necessarily be hardcore into Greco is a
big facet of what makes you dangerousis that unpredictability. Because it's not a
linear straight up or forty five degreeangle style at all. You have a

(54:58):
variety of entries you can get into. You can turn an entry into a
chain, which is extraordinarily difficult todo the way that you have kind of
branded your own. We'll call ittransitional movement. And that's why I could

(55:22):
very well picture a group of SouthAmerican dudes freaking sitting around breaking down video
and all practicing with each other,like trying to trying to figure out the
book on you. I mean,if if anything, that would be why
because you can It's not like youcould say, like, okay, well

(55:43):
he cheats left with his underhook,like it's that simple. It's what he's
talking about. The fact of thematter is I can wrestle both sides of
the body. I can throw bothsides of the body like it makes you
so much more versatile as a wrestler. And like the things that people were
using to slow me down, likeI've mastered how to get out of those

(56:04):
situations, like like being in thelike wcat room, Like they explained it
so simple, like so simply forme, Like I was just like,
Wow, this is what I wasmissing this entire time. And it's like
it's groundbreaking really because like once Ilearned how to pumble, I'm like,
this guy's a limit. I canget to the body anytime I want.
I've gotten better at freaking arm throws, armspins. It's like you know,

(56:28):
the sky's a limit. Once youlearn how to bumble, learn how to
pumble, want how to breathe.And Marsalif, Yeah, I mean not
to cut you off, but Marsalief, look what happened twenty eighteen. First
massaliaf. I've talked about this amillion times to people. It's like,
okay, so against Marsaliev, youwent and hit the fastest like non freestyle

(56:50):
duck under I've ever seen, Okay, and like you were instantly behind him
and it was a takedown and thenwhat did he do? The rest of
the match did well? I'll tellyou what he did. He did everything
possible to just bottle you up anddo nothing. And the worst part about
that is, and I once againI hate to do this, I hate
to just like completely rail against thefishings. But is they That was the

(57:15):
first year, really the only yearwhen negative wrestling was supposed to be super
enforced. Yeah. And I'm noteven like, I'm not even bagging on
marsalia f in this case because Idon't blame him. I would. I
was just like, you know what, if I had this young dude coming

(57:37):
at me the way this guy wascoming at me, I probably would have
done the standing. It's bangerous.You know, Uh should you championship?
I tell people, make them callit, you know, make them call
it. Oh my gosh. Thatwas just that was really frustrating. That
was nonsense. But like to piggybackon and that is that national team head

(58:02):
coach her House was talking to mea couple of weeks ago, I think
it was right before yeah, rightbefore Christmas, and we were talking about
Croatia camp coming up and all thisother stuff and partners and you know,
the how it's going to be packedand whatever, and he was talking about

(58:22):
how when you're overseas it's different.He said, some guys from the US,
like you know, sometimes they mightstruggle to find like a like a
conglomeration of different partners to get buthe was like not comal when we go
overseas at camps, Kamal's got aline of guys waiting to get in with

(58:45):
him. Is he overstating that,No, you're not really because like so
one of the things that like Ithink separates me from a lot of the
other guys is that I make alot of friends overseas. You know,
I'm a very talkative person, soit's not really hard for me to like
go places and make friends immediately.Like we all know, like if people

(59:07):
don't realize the difference between like youknow, a Greco Ruman camp internationally is
way different from a free camp orany folks out camp domestically, you're fighting
every day. You know, youget there, you know, right off
the play your first practice, you'regoing live, you know is a live

(59:29):
factory. Yeah, you just you'regoing live the entire time. You know,
so like people would getting like bangedup, and you know, misery
loves company, you know, thisstuff, like the camp suck, but
you make a lot of friends havingto fight every day. You get some
You get some good guys out there. Like one of my favorite dudes to
wrestle with at camps is Oaks onthem because he tries to kill me like

(59:51):
this, like he tries to murry. And the worst part is that three
of them, there's three Levis,and you know all three of them won't
want to rip your head off.So and I'm just have a person that
thinks, like you know, sufferingis funny. I'll sit there and like
the rest of them all day,like arms don't even lift up looking at
her and just start laughing because I'mlike, I got nothing, Like this

(01:00:13):
is what everybody wanted. And Herbknows that, like I'm I'm I'm one
of the biggest complainers, So likeI tell him exactly how I feel before
I do anything. I'm like,I'm like Herb, Hey, Herb,
I ain't gonna I'm not I'm notgonna lie to you a It's one of

(01:00:35):
them days. But and I'm gonnago out here anyway, and I'm gonna
do the best, just so youknow in advance. I'm miserable. I
feel miserable just so I'm gonna I'mgonna do my best. But her does
a good job of, like,you know, keeping my morale high and
stuff. We laugh about some things. He butt head, you know,
it's just one of those things.He's more like a he's more like a
dad to me than anything, solike he wants the best for me.

(01:01:00):
And you know, going through thesecamps where you feel miserable the entire time
is half the battle. You know. You gotta you can't live like the
glamorous lifestyle rereco camp. You gotto sit there in the cold room and
then go fight at you know,whenever time they tell you to wake up
to come fight. No, Isuppose not, you know, if I'm

(01:01:22):
sure you remember, But we wedid that that Q and A between Final
X and the Hungarian tournament, andI remember, you know, it's like
we you know, you and Iknow each other real well. So after

(01:01:45):
a bit, it's you know,like, yeah, you gotta come up
with fresh questions for Kamal here andthere, I guess and I remember what
did I asked? Y'all read itexactly. When you're training with foreigners,
being on the feet or in parterdo you show them everything you've got,
or do you keep a little inyour pocket in case you might see them

(01:02:06):
in competition or does it not evenmatter to you at this point? And
you said, personally is on andoff, just like wrestling itself. But
takedowns are always earned. Never giveup an easy takedown or push out.
I'll sit in the middle and pummelall day, as you just said,
but if I feel an opening toscore, then I'll attack. Don't lose

(01:02:28):
that edge, meaning your instincts orintuition. And that's the problem because I
always wonder that. And now whenwe're talking about you being overseas, which
is coming up for you pretty shortly. Yeah, it's like like I just
can't imagine, Like if all theseguys want to go live with you,
it's like you've got to figure Imean, obviously Leva, well seventy seven

(01:02:52):
lev anyhow you know he's trying toget feels right, I would think,
I mean, what are you supposedto do? Like not you know,
not to sound proved, but likenot do what you do, like you
got to wrestle it yourself? Right, how do you even guard against that?
I'll let you know that, likedefensively, like yeah, like you
you're not supposed to hold anything backor you will get hurt offensively. You

(01:03:15):
know, you can pick and chooseoffensively. Same thing with a match.
You know you don't want to justbum rush anybody out there, then you
know you get taxed. It happens. But but uh yeah, like with
defense, it's like one hundred percentall the way, man, because like
if you're not defending yourself, likeyou're gonna get hurt out there. It

(01:03:35):
just it is what it is,whether it's home seats and parterre rib shoulders,
like it can happen. So yeah, I always tell people like,
ay, everything is earned, youknow, like I'm not giving up no
easy takedown anything. Was this aweird Nationals for you in December, the
whole only having one match? Yeah? I was coming illed on that,

(01:03:58):
man, like I hate this aroundall day, but like you know,
I didn't even see you on Friday, Yeah, I wasn't like we were
there for a little bit and thenwe took off, you know, weight
management type stuff. Like I honestlyhated just sitting around all day. I
mean the funniest part though, itwas like pretending like I was actually mad.
You know, I saw Benji's alittle comment, but people don't know

(01:04:19):
Benji like I know Benji, likethat's mad, Like he's a go getter
man. Like when I see Benji, like he's somebody I wish I had
in the debut gap room because hecocks his ship and you know he's gonna
go out there. He's gonna tryto back it up regardless of who it
is, like he always thinks he'sgonna win. Like it's it's a good
attitude to have, you know,and liked. Yeah, we're good friends,

(01:04:45):
like people don't realize, like,you know, like we have Benjie
are realal bit friends. We talkedtime to time whatever. We play video
games together, like we're cool,like and honestly, like the ship target
we say on a video game ismuch worse than anything we said on like
Instagram. I've been posted on Instagram. What's whatever, Like we're still cool.
There's competition and then there's outside ofcompetition, and we need fire in

(01:05:09):
our program. Benji has absolutely zeroproblem bringing that. I mean, oh
my gosh, I was going toask you about this, by the way,
we'll get to it right after this. But after his match with Britain
and he's pointing at everyone in theirmother's cousin in the arena. I'm coming
after you, coming after you,coming after you. And like I was

(01:05:32):
like when Benji switched on, he'slike super entertaining. My gosh, oh
yeah got that fire, Yeah hegot that, he got he got that
show minimum Britain. Uh So thatwas tough to watch for more reasons than
just one. He had just justcome back what military Worlds takes a breather

(01:05:57):
in between tournaments. Then he hasthe Nationals and it's like, my gosh,
man like well like we're like,it's like and it's the worst part
is is that he could have landedpractically any other way, seemingly and it
would end up happened, would havebeen fine. Yeah, it's just like
that one count like it is perfect, you know, the perfect fall.

(01:06:20):
I actually wrote this down as anote task yet but uh, you know,
how have you been comforting him giventhe texture of your relationship, Ah,
just being just being a good friend, Like I know, like with
the knee thing, like it's gonnatake time. And so with Brandon,
like I said in the interviews before, like I'm very protective of breaton,

(01:06:41):
Like that's like my younger brother,you know. So you know, wrestling
is wrestling like people people were gonnaget beat friends and don't get be so
like, I don't got any issuewith like you know, binge or somebody
beating Britain or anything. But it'sjust that, you know, when he's
hurt, you know, and thenyou know you're flexing all on him.
That's when I get kind of upsetbecause I'm like, dude, like it
was just blew with me, youknow. And the Brandon like rustling is

(01:07:02):
huge, like Britain loves rap fund. He man, he's infected in the
room, but he would get acturate. Like literally his presidence is like one
of the best things I think thathappened for me personally because it motivates me
to like work hard to be betterbecause you know, I want him to
be the best he can be.You know, just seeing him in the
room, he's doing well, he'sdoing fine, he's walking, you know,

(01:07:24):
he's just he's getting prepared for whathe has to do to get back.
So h just being the brother forhim. Really, it was a
wild nationalist that way in that andI published it, but it was like
man, how many injuries were there? I mean there was Britain, there
was Cathcark, there was Mrkan,there was Apps think Barrys Stangel. I

(01:07:49):
don't know, I don't know.I can't account for it, but yeah,
it was strange. It strange tournament, you know, like the it's
it's like covering the tournament. Myend was was a little weird because it
was almost at at sixty kilos,seventy seven and heavyweight. The only reason

(01:08:11):
why it wasn't just like a trialsis because those final finals weren't a best
of three. But other than that, I was writing it like that those
brackets were challenge brackets, like challengetournament brackets, because it's like, well,
it's like, okay, so atsixty kilos you had Tuma and Max

(01:08:32):
Black technically wrestle in you know,challenge tournament final. Yep, same at
seventy seven between Benji and Peyton Jacobson, and then obviously heavyweight between Adam Kuhn
and Courtney Freeman. It's just likeit's just so bizarre. Really, I

(01:08:53):
don't know, I don't whatever.I don't feel one way or another about
it. Just just strange because you'retrying to like like this to an audience
who like, like again, theynot everybody who reads five point is super
into Greco, so I don't knowwhat they know. And it's like,
okay, so this is how thishappened. It's just weird, uh,

(01:09:13):
super weird. Max Black he's anotherone. He's obviously in the same room
as Benji. He's another one.He's got that fire. Oh yeah,
like yeah, totally, totally,totally. All right, Well you figure
this Camal, you're gonna get backfrom Croatia. I don't know, Well

(01:09:39):
January twenty eight, I want tosay, I think something like that.
Yeah, Yeahanuary twenty seven, okay, and then get a week and change,
and then there's the PanAm camp atSprings, and then obviously, well

(01:10:00):
the Army guys I know aren't wrestlingat PANDAM Championships. Uh. But that
being said, when you think aboutto turn around and the time in between
these tournaments and stuff like that,you know, whatever, I think,
I guess Armed Forces is in there, right, Yeah, How does Army

(01:10:28):
do a good job of keeping youguys fresh, rested, recovered all that.
It's not about being really refreshed foranything for me, so especially as
he does a good job of life. We're freaking you know, I guess
making practices a little bit easier.But yeah, like my fourth goal,
I'm gonna let you know right now, it'd be tougher after the thought.

(01:10:49):
Like I said, like, I'ma natural complainer, so obviously you know,
the battles back is going to belike man, what the hell?
But tough after this thought. Youknow, you know, some people get
too wrapped up on like you knowthings are gonna be tough instead of like,
you know, just like a sayingOkay, this is gonna be some
bullshit and then just being tougher thanthe bullshit. You know, I just

(01:11:15):
I just you know, I justknow that, Hey, after this,
I'm gonna have a good long break, but just stay focused right now,
stay in the fight, and everything'sgonna work yourself out. So I'm not
I'm not too worried about you know, breaks or anything like that. Fair
enough. Uh. The reason whyI ask it, and you probably won't
be the last one I even askedthat too, is because of one reason.

(01:11:40):
It's not for the you know,thinking about the space between let's say
Pan American qualifier and trial so much. It's really to be honest with you,
it's more because of Croatia. It'sjust like we were talking talking about,

(01:12:00):
like we know that that's an arduouscamp. It's a tough camp.
And then it's like, Okay,we're gonna come home, you know,
rest it out a little bit,and then we got PanAm camp and then
I guess for you and a coupleothers it will be on Forces and then
you're gonna go and meet up inMexico and qualify these weight classes. So

(01:12:23):
it's like I guess, though,you know, like you could, we're
not having a like a typical Januarycamp anyway, right, So not that
big of a difference, I guess. I don't know. Yeah, it's
not too big of a difference atall. Like I don't honestly prefer it
in this way because like it keepsme busy, keeps me busy, and

(01:12:45):
then gives me more opportunities to workon some things, you know, going
over to Croatio s you know whatwas working over there in Europe against the
you know, European competition, Asiancompetition, you know, whoever's there,
and then bouncing back to our camp, it gives me an opportunity to pretty
much expose my guys, the wCAB guys, and you know who will
the w CAP guys on what toexpect, you know, because I do

(01:13:10):
a pretty good job of giving theseguys looks and letting them like, you
know, teaching them kind of theflow of competition and where their hairs to
be at or where their heads shouldbe at, or what they should be
doing a certain respects as certain timeframesof the match. You know. So
yeah, like the Pan American campis going to be pretty much just me,

(01:13:30):
like working on what I don't wantto work on, and like,
you know, getting those guys readyso we can go qualify these ways before
I move on to the last lastquestion here, just to uh rewind a
little bit, and this is youknow, maybe it's a little bit out
of order, but you know whocares. We're talking about Levy that would

(01:13:55):
win this year. That was thatwas a that was a good win.
That was an enjoyable win. Ithought, given the context of the moment,
how satisfying was it to get thatwin against him? It felt good.
I called Terry, Tracy and TCright afterwards, because like it just
shows my growth and my maturity asa as an athlete and the girl room

(01:14:19):
wrestler, because like, you're notgonna just be the guy like that.
You know, that guy works hardall around, you know, practice room,
in life. He's just he's anall around person man. Like you
know, he just got married recentlytoo, so he's gonna be even stronger
next time I meet him, becauseyou know, having a wife makes you
strong as hell. But but yeah, it's so good, like I said,

(01:14:45):
like, you know, taking outtop ranked athletes like that, you
know, it just it lets youknow that you're supposed to be here.
And for a little bit there,like a few people were just like,
you know, come on, buthe's a good wrestle, he's a good
athlete and stuff, but like whatis he internationally? So it was great
to have that to muscle that oneout really and give me some momentum moving

(01:15:09):
forward after after the fact, Wellyeah, no doubt about it. Come
on, I mean, look atHungary was air. I mean Hungary was
a great tournament. It was agreat tournament for you. Sancho wrestled super
well. Uh he had that awesomematch with China that was one of I
mean, that was a that wasa highlight reel match as far as like

(01:15:30):
if you're a Greco Roman nerd thatwas a great match, uh, I
mean just tremendous, but like yeah, I mean because that tournament you had
Iran, I forgot who you whodid you be? First round? Even
remember I had Iran the first roundhe was to the two time junior road
champions. Yeah, and Gusy he'sa cool guy, man, We sallow
each other on Instagram, by theway. Him. Then after him,

(01:15:57):
I had the guy from Chek whowas really for some reason like that oh
yeah, yes, yes, hewas ridiculously wrong. Man. He's super
strong, yeah for sure. Yeah. I was pushing the pace against him,
and I was like, Okay,this guy is strong, and if
I don't slow down like right now, like I'll run the risk of like

(01:16:17):
yes and my stuff out. SoI kind of like found it like a
good like you know, seventy fivepercent to go at him with that way.
I wouldn't like get him a pushoutsor anything. And then I just
sort of kind of like turned upthe pace around the second period on them
to get to my scores and mytakedowns and stuff. And then I wrestled
with the Georgian. Yeah, Georgeand Levi. Yeah, and then sell

(01:16:39):
them went off. Hungary is abig deal. That's a what do we
have left? I mean we haveHungarian Grand Prix. Zagrev has obviously turned
into like a big deal tournament.You've been wrestling in that tournament since you've
been a senior wrestler. I meanthat was what that was your first senior

(01:17:00):
overseas metal, wasn't it in twothousand and seventeen, Bronze Gil That was
eighty kilos too, wasn't it.Yeah, I'm moved up away, that's
right. Yeah, miss Momere.He was like, do you go up
away? I was like, thankyou because seventy four boy that I don't

(01:17:20):
care. Day before way seventy fourwere hurt. Well, who would you?
Oh? You had Boso in thattournament, and you had botho in
the semi finals and uh yeah Wagonerfor the third place I think third place
match or second one of the two. Oh not second place the second match.

(01:17:41):
Yeah, I think it was Bronze, didn't you. Yeah you pinnedhim,
didn't you? Oh yeah yeah yeahyeah, Bronze man little much the
tournament, I miss I talk aboutit pretty often with like, you know,
people who care to hear about thiskind of thing? Is I missed
a Golden Grand Prix. That wasmy favorite tournament. Uh, I'm miss
it, miss it, miss it. It was when you had seasons when

(01:18:04):
you had Golden Grand Prix and Hungryand maybe uh Bulgaria or Tibilisi or whatever.
It's like you had like a sixthschedule for like a hot minute there
on and off or Podobni even.But it's like, you know, we

(01:18:25):
talk all the time about how there'snot I mean, we don't have anything
in America anymore. You know,we only have New York and the national
tournaments. It's the domestic tournaments likewe don't have like back in the day
when we used to have sun kissedin you know whatever early fall and then
New York and then okay, youmight get a breather a couple of years

(01:18:47):
there. We had Minnesota Storm HolidayCup, but that was only for a
couple of years. But at leastin the winter you knew you had sholt
and then maybe you went overseas,maybe it didn't, and then you had
your US open, your trials andstuff, and now it's like, my
gosh, that's why I hated theprocedures last year because eighty five percent of
the wrestlers the Greco Greco anyway,eighty five percent or something of the Greco

(01:19:13):
athletes at the US Open in twentytwenty three that was their first that was
where their first matches of the year. US Open. Okay, this is
where we're at. We need events, man, we need events in this
country. Again. Yeah, Idon't even know events in this country or
like, man, like shoot,bite them dudes out here, and we

(01:19:33):
just roughle each other four weeks straight, you know, like new dual every
week something man, Yeah, comeal, I mean yeah, but like quite
literally that like you package them intostuff. You have you have a tournament,
and then in the week leading upto the tournament, or in a

(01:19:55):
few days after the tournament, youhave a duel meet or something like.
You make it worth everybody's while weused to do stuff. It's about to
write a note of that, Likeyou practiced with a different like the team
you already competed against or whatever.When the you wrestle a different team next
week, like that, that'd becool something. I mean, we need

(01:20:17):
it. I mean, my goodness, uh and you know what good because
this is a good segue into thefinal topic. We'll just cover a topic
that I know is quite near anddear to your heart, and it's also
one that's of extreme importance at themoment concerning Greco Roman wrestling and its health

(01:20:38):
in the United States of America,and that is opportunities for high school aged
athletes in particular. I mean,it's for everybody, because we can't we're
certainly not in a position as aprogram to turn anyone away, really,
but it's the high school athletes whoI think are most in need of serving

(01:21:05):
or providing opportunities to. There seemsto be a growing segment of these athletes
who do want to compete in GrecoRoman wrestling and practice Greco Roman wrestling and
nothing else, no more hikes tohigh school folks style. They don't want
to go wrestle in you know,traditional college or something like that. This

(01:21:28):
is what they want. But it'stough because well, number one, there's
only so many places in the countrythat will take high school kids all year
around to practice, right And ontop of that, it's there's a financial
component to that as well. Butyou were on the you were one of
the qualumn like the that group fromtwenty sixteen. Who yeah, you can't

(01:21:58):
see Yeah what the senior team Flora'syou're a senator. You could speak to
this better than just about almost everybodyelse. Certainly, you're a reflection of
this. You're a product of comingover early. Okay, maybe it didn't
come over at fifteen, but youstill we this is still a new thing
for us. Like even with NorthernMichigan having been around for over two decades,

(01:22:19):
this is still technically a new thingfor us. And it's we see
how the foreigners are operating. Okay, like this is not secretive. That's
the one thing the Americans don't understandis they think this is like some kind
of like anomaly or something. It'slike, no, no, no,
no, no. Just as America. In America folk style wrestling tournaments are

(01:22:40):
now held twelve months a year,we've really ramped up the development on that
front. Well, at the sametime we've been doing that over the past
two decades two and a half orwhatever, the foreigners have been doing that
with their age group programs. Andthe thing is they don't have folk style,
So when they're doing it with theirage group programs, they're doing it
with greco predominantly or freestyle. Yeah, that's what we're kind of up against.

(01:23:05):
As someone who is among the world'sbest competitors as well as an American
who started young. You can talkto this well, let's not call it
a problem. Let's call it anissue. You can talk to this issue
better than most. So how doyou see it, Like, what do
you see developmentally in our country andhow it stacks up with the rest of

(01:23:27):
the world. Shoot, it's ait's a broad question, man, it's
a broad question. I'm letting youknow right now. I think you know
one thing. We have to findkids who are interested in it. Man.
You know, like for me,I never really found enjoyment wrestling like
folks style or freestyle. So thetransition wasn't that huge for me. Like,

(01:23:49):
you know, I rather enjoyed likegoing upper body. You know,
we need more kids like that andlike, you know, kids who are
committed parents who you know, supportthe kids in the journey because like the
hardest thing for me was being awayfrom home. When you pursue, when
you pursue the dream of becoming theGreco Roman athlete, you have to accept

(01:24:12):
that you're not going to have alot of nights with your family. It
is what it is. Like,I'm lucky enough that I'm married to a
woman who supports the hell out ofme and knows that I'm doing I'm doing
everything I can, not only formyself, but for for our future,
you know, for our betterment.So being away doesn't really doesn't really hurt
me as it does my other friends, while I know who have issues or

(01:24:33):
relationships or stuff like that. Thesecond thing would be, you know,
putting these kids in an environment wherethey can start to mature and like learning
how their body functions. You know, I was already a super duper tricky
kid, great great back, andI had really like freaky hips, so

(01:24:57):
like I could do a lot morethings than most kids because like gymnastics was
nothing to me. Like I canflip for days. A matter of fact,
I can start flipping right now andthen I can see you at seven
o'clock in the morning. I wouldn'tstop and being in awkward positions like I
would make it up as I go. You know, you can't be you
can't be afraid of things that areweird to make you uncomfortable. You know,
you have to sort of kind ofyou know, get used to them,

(01:25:20):
you know. Like one of thethings I like, I say,
like, you know, I watchlike a lot of freestyle matters. I
got friends of rest freeze out matches, and I tell them all the time,
I'm like, you know, peopleget you in an underhook, you
almost look ticklish, you know.You know, I'm just like you just
you like you freaking run out ofbounds and stuff like that, and I'm

(01:25:43):
like, that's not wrestling in myeyes. Like, you know, be
a be all around wrestler. Youknow, like even if you do decide
to pursue the free throw or whatever, I'm not gonna hold you. I'm
not gonna hold it against you.You know. I just know that to
be a grecord own wrestler, youhave to you have to be a tough
we have to be a tough SLB. You know, you got to roll
with the bunches. So I wouldsay, we need coaches who are experienced

(01:26:05):
enough to know that these kids needto develop. One of the best things
that happened to me was that Igot to work with tz Danndler. You
know, someone who's an athlete who'sgood at developing athletes, you know,
like one I wish I wish hewanted to be around more. But you
know, people are con consistently pushingour coaches away, and like you said,
it's just not a good atmosphere forcoaches and in general, just because

(01:26:28):
people think they know everything, youdon't know everything. Like, there's so
much that can be put on theboard, make corrections to solve the problems.
You know, a lot of thestuff. Like I felt before I
got into the w GAP program,I was solving alone. Now I got
a team, and I got coacheswho who are there and will help me
develop. You know, I'm notso closed minded, so close off the
things. As you know, onestyle is better than the other man.

(01:26:49):
It's just it's ridiculous the type ofmindset you have to have in order to
be a grecro own a wrestler.I think I'll start right there. Otherwise
I'm just gonna into rambling. Well, no, no, no, no
here. Well you said it wasa broad question. How about this.
You travel the world. I don'tknow how many countries you've been in at

(01:27:12):
this point, but plenty you've wrestledagainst exactly, so you a lot.
You see how this is right?You see what this looks like around every
other region in the world. Howwrestlers from different countries like, they have

(01:27:33):
their own little wrinkles to their styles. Maybe you can compare some. They
all have differences, but the onething they all have in common is that
they didn't grow up wrestling folk stylefor let's say, eighteen nineteen years or
twenty one, twenty two years beforecoming over to Greco Roman. Okay,

(01:27:56):
this has been their style. Andlook at this is a tired narrative.
We we've all covered this a milliontimes over. It bears repeating. You
know, they don't have to bereassimilated and pick up the various nuances that
are present in Grecoran positioning, thedifferent sort of tactical mindset you sometimes have

(01:28:16):
to have, and the pressure releaseyou got to have it is to have
to have. Like you said,they've been doing it their whole lives.
It's like it's like me thinking,I'm about to go out here and be
Tiger Woods and around of eighteen ofgolf or something like that, Like you
like, could it happen? Maybe, like they're always that maybe, but

(01:28:38):
realistically, come on now. Thereason why people get combative over this topic
is they'll say, well, theGreco program used to regularly have medalists and
used to be in the World Cup, you know, pretty often, pretty
regularly. Yeah, we did,and those rosters, and we're you know,

(01:29:00):
by and large, the overwhelming majorityof those rosters. Anyhow, we're
comprised of got Greco Roman wrestlers whowrestled in college, right, Okay,
But the era is a little differentnow. The other countries who have already
been good, you know, postSoviet Union dissolution, they're developing their age

(01:29:24):
group athletes now. They're providing moreopportunities to them now, much in the
same way we've been providing additional opportunitiesto our folk style wrestlers in this country
for the past however, many years, Like, it's not the same as
the eighties and nineties and early twothousands and stuff, when it was like,
yeah, we can certainly out tougha whole lot of people. And

(01:29:46):
I'm not saying comeal for this.I mean, don't misunderstand me. This
isn't necessarily a dire, dire,dire problem this moment in time, as
we speak, I'm talking about thefuture of Greco Roman in the United States.
That's why I'm pretty passionate about theidea of getting the fifteen and sixteen

(01:30:13):
year olds over and on top ofthat, and this is the one I
really want you to speak to themost. There are some wrestlers, whether
they're in middle school or high schoolor whatever, who you look at,
get to know and talk to,and it's like, look, this kid,
he's a Greco Roman wrestler. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know

(01:30:36):
he's in a folk style program andstuff, but I'm telling you, he's
a Greco Roman wrestler. And wemake it like in our country, like
as if wrestling is all the same, and it's like no, some people
are just more cut out for onestyle than they are another. There are
some kids who are just they're madefor Greco. They are. There's some
kids that are made for freestyle,right absolutely, Like people don't success and

(01:31:00):
freestyle like it's probably because you meantto throw people. I think Herb does
a good job of that. He'sconstantly talking to other athletes, you know,
trying to pull them over to theGrock Roman scene and things. You
know, people, It's like there'speople out there who are really good athletes
who I believe the transition won't betoo hard for those being college athletes.
But for the fifteen to sixteen yearolds, I think it'd be great if

(01:31:23):
like we just had the opportunities tojust go and talk to these kids,
you know pretty much, you know, based off of you know, how
they will hell they did it fargo you fifteen pan ms whatever like those
are the kids that we need totalk to. Those are the kids that
we need to get and you know, having opportunities to go to schools and
pretty much explaining what Drucker Roman wrestlingis, you know, getting video out

(01:31:43):
there, Like I believe we havean opportunity to pretty much like let them
know that, you know, there'sanother option of wrestling out there before they
get it stuck in the head thatyou know, they only have to go
folks out, they only have todo freestyle type deal. It seems like
it should be a lot easier thanit is. Do you remember the twenty
and seventeen cadet team, not thejunior team? You were on the cadet

(01:32:05):
team, Yes, with a ColtonSults and a bunch of other those guys
man Ridge Love. It was onthe team great team, and I remember
I said, something's effective if wecould get all of the cadets from each
year's like let's say top three atthe cadet trials. Let's say it that

(01:32:27):
way. If we were to everyyear keep all of those kids, we
would be a top three senior programalmost overnight. I remember saying that,
and dude, it just bears itout in the numbers. You just you
look at where they are now,the growth like, oh my gosh,
like the country had so much moredeath like every other country does, it

(01:32:48):
would be ridiculous. And that's thepoint. I mean, it's just it's
so frustrating. It's just so freakingfrustrating because that's the point that people just
seem to miss. You know,you can't begrudge these these younger guys for
not coming back. You know,like I get it. They look at

(01:33:09):
they look at wrestling through a differentlens. They think that you could just
pop in and out of styles andwhatever. It's like, yeah, okay,
well here's the problem. The problemis is that you look at Fargo
and you know, don't get mewrong, and look at your Fargo champ.
You look at Fargo and you're approximatingthat to Greco Roman wrestling. It's

(01:33:29):
like, okay, well, howbeut I go and we do a split
screen and I put up the finalsfrom Fargo, and next to it on
the other screen is the finals fromthe Armenian Junior Nationals. They're not going
to even look like the same sport. They won't. They literally wouldn't.
Yeah, Fargo, it's a determinedyou know, get kids feet dipped in

(01:33:51):
the water. But like you said, like the gap that they're already producing
because you know they're developing so youngand we have so many people participating in
it. You know, it's justyou can't just do it for like a
weekend. You know, it's theirlifestyle. Yeah, I mean, look

(01:34:13):
in Fargo, that's not a disI mean it's a great, great competitive
tournament and it tells a lot abouta kid who can advance in that tournament
or even All American. In thattournament, you have to wrestle a million
matches. A lot of them aretough. And yeah, there's a reason
why colleges use it as a hugedata set to you know, draw for

(01:34:33):
recruiting. I get all that,it's just when I'm we're both saying the
same thing, it's like, man, like you don't know what you don't
know? We keep the cadets,just keep them, get more resources for
these people, like places to stay. We could we could literally change the
whole dynamic view with a greco.Let's close off with something that's uh,

(01:34:57):
just a little bit more, youknow, positive, because I know you
like working with kids when you getthe chance to, and kids obviously love
flocking to you whenever they have thechance to do that as well. You
have a lot of fun when youget the chance to do clinics and camp
stuff whenever that I mean, it'sit's tough when you have to fill up

(01:35:18):
your schedules with training camps and thingslike that. But what is uh,
we'll make it a two part orwhat are what is the one thing that
you enjoy the most about working withkids? And also what is the most
common question you get from kids?What I like most about working with kids

(01:35:41):
is that they just like they learnedso fast, Like you show them something
and it's like boom, in aninstant, they already know what you're talking
about, or you know, they'rethey're so ready to try something new.
The more question I get asked themost is why did I choose get grom
and wrestling and just always constant explainmyself. I'm like these kids, never
watching any of my bios, readany of my bidos or anything or any

(01:36:03):
view just like you know, it'smy preferrest style. Man, it's just
for me, Like it's where Ifind the most growth and most self satisfaction.
Is just you know, being ableto win to grek a Roman match,
Well, your sister had a betterheadlock and shoot, why not you

(01:36:24):
know, rip someone's head off inthe process. Literally, it's literally the
best, like the best job inthe world. Man. You get to
go places and fight, you know, and oh man, there's nothing like
it. You know, you onlyget to do this while you're young,
Like you don't get the opportunity tojust when you're old if you're Russell veterans.

(01:36:44):
But I don't plan on doing that, Like when I'm done, I'm
done, I'm not going out thereto fight. No, oh no,
no. By then, let's pictureit as you having moved and then you
and now re could both get hallthat are located directly on a golf course,
and that will be the brunt ofyour exercise. You won't take the

(01:37:09):
golf carts, You'll walk everywhere andthen you'll be like, yeah, I
mean we got our steps in.Yeah, that'd be the life for me,
man like. But yeah, man, you only get to do with
WHI are young one, So I'mjust gonna keep on fighting, all right.

(01:37:32):
And that was camal Bay twenty twentythree five point move Athlete of the
Year as well as the winner forboth Impact Performer which covers international results placings
and Outstanding Individual Performance for his winat the Pan American Games. And just

(01:37:53):
like we talked about Pan American stuff, that meant two wins against Penya Flores
from Cuba, who's very tough,experienced, pretty skilled athletic wrestler, very
skilled athletic wrestler, but an obstacle. It's what he has, an obstacle.

(01:38:15):
Is he going to be an obstacleat the end of February at the
Panama Olympic Qualifire, Probably you'd haveto think so. But anyway, there
was kamal As always just super entertaining, super insightful. He has a rare
ability to be I don't want tosay, just laugh on himself because he's

(01:38:36):
got that. But it's also heknows how to communicate in a way where
just about everyone can relate to him. And that's one big reason why so
many people are drawn to him.It's not just his athletic stuff. It's
not just his throwing people and thehighlights and all that and his success or

(01:38:59):
whatever. It's because he's engaging.And so because he's engaging, people want
to talk to him, and thenthey come to talk to him and they
realize that he's I mean, he'sjust super relatable. And he also knows
how to break down the serious partsof this sport in a more casual way

(01:39:19):
without overdramatizing and over romanticizing. Okay, like he just spits it out,
and when it's something that he canlaugh at, he laughs at, and
when it's something not worth laughing now, he don't. And that's why when
he comes back at the end ofeither January or early February whenever that happens,
and we do the whole guest hostingbit with him, I'm really excited

(01:39:43):
about it because he wants to goand sharpen his interview skills a little bit.
He wants to get involved. He'sgoing to do a great job.
Everybody knows he's going to do agreat job. But I digress. Anyway,
you know, it's weird too,because the Athlete of the Year press
release came out January three, whichwas the and that just so happened to
be Kamal's birthday turned twenty six,So isn't it something how that worked out?

(01:40:05):
And then we had Stampanion before that. He didn't disappoint. Of course,
he didn't disappoint. You know,David Stapanion is a super skilled competitor.
And one of the things that peopleneed to lock on when it comes
to Stapanion is that word competitor.Okay, there's a difference. A lot
of people are wrestlers and a lotof people are athletes. But he's a

(01:40:27):
competitor. Yes, does he havea wide ranging skill set and arsenal of
weapons and go tos and whatever,Yes, of course I'll write it that
way. But he's a competitor.He's a competitor. He wants to fight
to win, and his mindset aboutthat. I mean he talks about it
all lackadeisically and just chill. Butno, he's a monster competitor. Now,

(01:40:54):
that is an important distinction to make. This is about competition. They're
all excellent wrestlers. We've got theOlympic Trials coming up in three months,
a little over. It's a trainingblock. Link your eyes and it's gone.
Everyone in that tournament is an excellentwrestler, but it's the competitors who
make runs in that tournament. It'scompetitors and Stapanion's got that in them.

(01:41:19):
And you know what, that isone of the biggest strengths of the US
program right now. For all ofthe weaknesses everyone loves to discuss, one
thing that the US has going forthemselves is competitors. Good wrestlers figure out
how to get better at wrestling.Good competitors figure out how to get better

(01:41:44):
at winning. They figure out howto win what it takes, what it
demands, what is being asked tothem. And it's fair. It's fair.
As Camal and David pointed out,we have a deficit in development compared
to the rest of the world inthis style. The topic we've covered many,

(01:42:04):
many, many, many dozens oftimes on five point Move. It's
not new. I'm not gonna gohammer it and beat it into dust all
over again. But one way tomitigate that deficit is competitiveness. The overwhelming
vast majority of wrestlers from the UnitedStates of America who have ever earned a

(01:42:29):
World or Olympic medal in Greco Romanwrestling. They did so because of their
competitiveness more so than because of theirtechnical prowess. That doesn't mean they were
deficient. They weren't deficient. Technically, you can't be. You can't be
at the Olympic and world level can'tbe. But it was their competitiveness that

(01:42:50):
drove them to the finish line.And we have a good number of guys
right now, because they've been involvedon a full time basis for the better
part of a decade, who fitthis description. They are starting to marry
both marry both concepts. Their techniquehas begun to catch up to their competitiveness,

(01:43:11):
and their competitiveness has begun to catchup with their technical knowledge. However,
you want to see that vice versadoesn't matter, and that's what you're
going to see at the Olympic Trials. The Olympic Trials for twenty twenty four
is going to be a level betterthan it was in twenty and twenty one,
and that is not a diss Buttwenty twenty one was a really off

(01:43:33):
Olympic Trials. In some ways,you had well anny of athletes. At
least half the joint had not competedin a while or maybe once. There's
some who I know in particular,they hadn't hardly practiced with other guys,
at least not in a normal environment. Maybe a handful here and there.

(01:43:56):
It was just it wasn't. Itwasn't everybody's best foot forward. Let's put
it that way. I expect thisnext Olympic Trials to be a level better
in terms of presentation of the athletesthan it was in twenty twenty one.
All right, let's get to theZagreb stuff real quick, okay, Zagreb,
Zagreb, Zagreb Zagreb. So allright, So Greco Roman begins on

(01:44:19):
Friday with two weight classes. That'sseventy seven and eighty seven kilograms. We're
gonna go over the US roster ina second. That's seventy seven and eighty
seven on Friday. Saturday is sixtythree and sixty seven, and then on
Sunday it is fifty five, sixty, seventy two, eighty two, ninety
seven and one point thirty. Okay, so just block out the weekend.

(01:44:44):
That's what it is. Block outthe weekend, okay, six hours ahead.
Zagreb is from the East Coast.I believe. All right, let's
go over the Zagreb roster real quick. This is a refresher because we also
went over in episode fifty six towardsthe end. But it is comprised main
of those who were in the finalsof the US Nationals at sixty kilograms build

(01:45:04):
our halfies Off National champ, HaydenTuma runner up at sixty seven, Alex
Sancho National champ, Peyton Almanya runnerup. Robert Perez is also in at
sixty seven he took third, seventyseven camal Bay National Champ, Benji Peak
runner up, and ray Von Perkinswho actually had to defaul out of the

(01:45:27):
tournament due to injury. Eighty seven, Spencer Woods National Champ, Mahmoud Sebi
runner up, ninety seven kilograms,Alan Vera National Champ, Joe Raw runner
up and heavyweight no Calton Schultz,just Adam Kuhn who was the runner up.
And your staff is of course thenational Greco Roman coach Herb House and

(01:45:50):
the director of Greka Roman slash GM. Like we have to play these games
with job titles now, Justin Ruizand Army coach Spencer Mango and the one
and only. Ike Anderson are theother coaches on this roster. All right,
social media concerns, Social media concerns. To follow David Sapanion on Instagram

(01:46:15):
and Twitter. Okay, so bothof these guys, their handles are the
same on both Twitter and Instagram.Okay. To follow David Stapanion on Instagram
and Twitter, it is d Stepanion. Seven. That is D S t
E p A n I A andseven. To follow camal Bay on Instagram

(01:46:38):
and Twitter, it is it's KBAI t Z Underscore k b e Y.
Dennis All, who will return tothis program eventually. Dennis All.
You can follow him on Twitter forno reason, and that is at Dennis

(01:46:59):
Hall WGW. Instagram's your better bet. That is at World Gold Wrestling on
Instagram and for USA Greco Roman newsand athlete perspectives, please go to five
Point move dot com and as always, follow along on Twitter at five the
number five pt Move. That's itfor episode fifty seven. Everybody, thanks

(01:47:21):
for listening and we'll see you soon.

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