October 13, 2025 • 39 mins
Joe Uccellini is the founder of one of America's best clubs, Curby 3-Style in Troy, New York. Recently, Uccellini was also named as an assistant coach for the West Point Wrestling Club/RTC.
He also has a unique background. As a competitor, Uccellini was coached by two Hall of Fame leaders, the late Joe DeMeo at ATWA, and Ivan Ivanov at Northern Michigan University.
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He also has a unique background. As a competitor, Uccellini was coached by two Hall of Fame leaders, the late Joe DeMeo at ATWA, and Ivan Ivanov at Northern Michigan University.
SUBSCRIBE:
Apple Podcasts | Spreaker | RSS
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'll rip for on app.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Stop worrying about stupid procedures and do pull up sixt
morning about making self.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Gift Craig why we had a a podcast, the one
to call the pot point Move. I'm frustrated with the
way our Greco guy for me.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I just go with our true because there.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Are good athletes have good human beings, but rona win.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
We gotta help we get that. See what I want?
People know me from all of our results where everything
comes from five point Move.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Hello and welcome to episode sixty six of the five
point Move podcast. I'm Tim Hans, founder and senior editor
for five point move dot Com. Yes, it's been a
long gap between the last episode and this one. That
is something we will en deever to improve. But we
do have a guest this time around, and he's a name.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Who should be familiar, a familiar name.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Well, he clicked on this obviously you saw that it's
the one and only Joe Usselini, known as the Dawn
among his brethren from northern Michigan back.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
During the Golden Era and Bussolini.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
The reason why he's on is because last month September,
it had been announced that he had accepted an assistant
coaching role for the West Point RTC, and given at
the West.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Point RTC has.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Begun to really make an impact on the senior Greco
Roman circuit in the United States. We need him and
that was worth digging into with Ussolini, and we recorded
this not long ago. But as of now, Joe Ussolini
is imminently preparing to wrestle on the Veterans World Championships,
(01:55):
So by the time this is released, his results will
probably be out and that's just how that goes.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
But let's not waste time. And yeah, let's just get
right to.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
It first and foremost. How are you at this stage
going about training for the World Championships, the Masters World
Championships next month.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, as an older wrestler, I actually count my steps,
so I'm making weight. I'm going seventy kilograms. You've seen
me at that size and I'm about eight kilos over.
So I trained with some of the wrestlers at Wrestle
(02:41):
at the club, but really working on my conditioning, doing
a lot of dummy throws.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I take less risks on the mat.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I'm just really focused on one in the positions and
having the conditioning. I've been there once before. And I
took big risk and I paid a price. And I think,
if I just dominate my ties when I get out there,
I'll have no problems.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So you're eight kilos over with like a month out.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, okay, which is not bad because even at Vegas
this year, I was I think I was four kilos
the day before, and I ate every meal because I
was coaching and I didn't want to. I didn't want
to be like feeling drained coaching. The kids don't deserve that.
They deserve the best I can give. And so immediately
after the wrestling was done, I went in a weight
(03:37):
cutting mode. I did like three four workouts and I
got the weight off.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
So at our advanced age, I kind of tend to
posit that weight cutting is certainly easier than it was,
let's say, between the ages of you know, middle school
and even early college, because you're not fighting it anymore
physically so much.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, I'm done growing, right, And so I think when
I said I was a late bloomer, so weight cutting
wasn't even allowed on the table for me because my
parents knew I hadn't grown yet, and so they didn't
want me to stunt it. And I didn't hit my
growth till my senior year, so I really didn't. I
think that's probably why I'm still competing in the sport.
(04:25):
I didn't really have an adversarial relationship with with my
weight ever, and so at this point it's probably good
for me to get down to a weight where I
probably should be walking around at anyway, you know, just
to be a good father and somebody that can play
with their kids.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Does Does Jake Fisher coach you at all via proxy?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah? I mean I get I guess some string training advice.
I guess some.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I mean, honestly, I had the last two national tournaments
I had I think I had a broken hand at
a like a little bone in the top of my
hand that was broken, and wrestle with that out and
he kind of helped me like.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Work through that.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
And then uh, this year I had I had like
a dislocated clavical I think I have thorastic outlets syndrome.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
And he's like looking at.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Wait, what is that? What is it.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Called thoracic outlet syndrome?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
What did? I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's like, I think, like my favorite pictures on the Mets,
get it obviously because like seasons are always a mess,
but like it's a I think it's an entry that
for people I do a lot of rotational stuff, especially
in their shoulder and scap, and so I think it's
like a first rib in the front with like the
one of the ribs in the back press on nerves
(05:56):
and cause dysfunctions for your scap all the way down
to your hand. And what I think can happen is
the claviical my claviical dislocate so sticking out in the front.
And Jake and I are on the phone and I'm like, dude,
He's like, you should get you should get an ultrasound,
and I'm like, well, I'm wrestling next week. So like
(06:18):
I'm like looking up self adjustments you can get basically
every sort of chiropractic adjustment. Be is there an adjustment
for claviical and lo and behold there was. I'm like
in the mirror, like popping it back in and it's
it's something I labored through. But like, oh, I call
him anytime I need help with training physically. Fisher is
(06:39):
like the number one. He gets all the calls. I mean,
hoping he's out here soon. And I was trying to
get him to go on the trip with me. I'd
take him as a coach any day of the week.
Like he understands my strengths and weakness, is better than anybody.
And so yeah, I'd love to have him in my corner.
(06:59):
So I think eventually that's gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Isn't your wife like a massage therapist?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, she thinks I'm crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So well, I'm just saying some of the soft tips, Like,
so this sounds to me.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
I'm granted, like I'm a virtual no nothing, but some
of this sounds like there are at the very least
soft tissue, a neural pathway sort of problems here. No,
and so like, wouldn't you just ask her to, I
don't know, knead it out or something.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
So she did and then she actually what I like
about Like, so we obviously run the wellness center together.
And if she can't massage something out, she can feel
something out of place, she doesn't try to massage to
it because she knows it's now a joint.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
If it's she can tell me if it's.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Just muscular, and she can she can work through that,
and she can help she can help heal through through
the massage or covering or or whatever that is. Once
you realize there's some joint dysfunction, she's usually referring me
to like a chiropractor or to some sort of like
muscle energy technique to to readjust whatever joins.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Her muscle technique. What is a muscle energy technique?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
So I have a we have physical therapists that are
placed too that so he can adjust you're s like
so and that site joints at the base of your back.
A lot of wrestlers have that issue that don't even
know about you. Senior athletes are walking around limping right
now and they and they're having trouble.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Sleeping because they're sad, like nerve is all you know,
it's causing the problems.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yes, it's inflamed and they probably threw a headlock that
had resistance in the In the base of the backs,
there's those two joints and ones slightly shifted, and so
a chiropractic adjustment on that rarely ever works. Never worked
for me, and it's really painful when they the chiropractors
jumps sign your back is like, oh, I got it.
(09:02):
But a guy that does muscle energy technique will work
the muscles around that joint. It's like a it's like
a repetitive pulsing motion and does some stuff that kind
of realigns the pelvis and the and uh and the
joints in the back and and it was very helpful
and getting the assign back into I don't want to say,
(09:22):
I don't know how to speak in these turns, but
get it back into alignment. So there's just this like
Ashley's really good about, like not acting like she can
solve every.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Problem, but being able to have those the resources that
I do.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Obviously, even the injuries that I have, I know I
can find ways to to like kind of to wrestle
through them or make adjustments in the way I actually compete.
So I didn't take very much high risks at this
turn in Vegas this year.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I was just on two on ones. I hit some
lifts and that was it.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I didn't really really feel comfortable about hitting like any headlocks.
Thought that arm was really kind of tight, so.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I just kept it simple.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Okay, So what would you say, how many times a
week are you on the map practicing like legitimately practicing wrestling.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
AH two two the coach I always plan to wrestle
three to four. But I'm coaching and still the first priority.
If I can't, I'll just get the dummy throws in
and just call out my practice. I mean, I'm getting reps,
but yeah I'm not. I'm not getting good pummel gooes
(10:50):
more than twice a week.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
You're doing nothing from let's say.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Oh I actually fell in love with part tear defense,
I am doing part tare. I made that part of
my game because obviously, as a coach and I know
the country, our job is to develop. You know, we
look at the senior love. I think partaar is something
that we can be better at. I always reference Bay
(11:17):
Camal Bay about how he scores from bottom almost almost effortlessly.
He's got some he's got just good positioning. He's ready
to score on bottom. So I like to when I
teach it, I like to challenge the kids like, hey,
you got to try to gut me, and then I'm like,
I'm probably gonna pin you though, and then.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
We go from there and we learn.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
But I like being on I like the opportunity to whore. Obviously,
I don't want to be on bottom at all. I
want to tech the guy or pin them quick. But
if I'm on bottom, you know, I take a lot
of pride in my movement. I've been doing a lot
of part tear defensive movement. My ribs feel great, my
(11:58):
position feels great, so that I still do when i'm
Every time I practice, I work on that stuff.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Are there any of your kids at the club who
are within your weight range?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Can any of them defeat you?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
And No?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
A couple of my kids that might be able to
get me an hour in college and they're wrestling. They
wrestle at the once at West Point, the other's at
Saint John Fisher for Greco Altimer. He's not in high school,
but he could. He's a big boy. I still wrestle
at him.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Well, I mean he's ninety kilos.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Probably, Well, yeah, we we pummel. We have We're scheduled
to practice this week twice. He's just getting back, so
we have to.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
We have to.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
We're both working on things that we want to get done.
We're not going to be super high risk. But he's
a great look for me because he's just got such
power in his legs and he's really gonna he's gonna
push me. So I used to I work with Tom
Foot here and there. He's a heavyweight.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Is he is Tom Foot at your club? Currently?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
He comes twice a week? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Does he have partners?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yes, he has got Jose Rivera who's trying to make
a Puerto Rican world team next month.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
He's like.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
He's got some kilos to lose, but he's there. He'll
be a heavyweight. We have two heavyweights. We have another
one whose kid wrestles for us too. He's not competing,
but he's he's a monster. So we have Tom's got
two partners. And then Mike gives him some just some
good looks, but they're they Tom Foot's getting two practices
(13:46):
a week.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
He's getting good practice.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Is Tom Foot getting two practices in a week period?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Or is he getting two practices in a week with you?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Uh? Two with me?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I think he's getting others because he has some kids.
I don't know what it looks like a back at
at Williams, but he's got some guys that are that's
that big.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
So okay, yeah, all right, Well look, I mean we're
having this conversation at least publicly for a purpose, and
that is because in addition to being the you know,
founder and head coach of.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Kirby. You are also just recently.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Announced you recently announced I guess what last week or something,
that you're now also a coach for the West Point RTC.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Is this not correct?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
That is correct?
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Okay, So, given that the West Point RTC is growing
in prominence, particularly within the Greco program, let's unpack some
of this. So how did this come about? A rich
aside from you know, any kind of proximal circumstances.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Scott Green reached out recently about my interest in and
joining the RTC. I do have a couple of wrestlers
at Wrestle at West Point that have wrestled Greco for
me since they were an.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Age group style.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
That's some kids that are looking to wrestle at West Point.
Some of the look is because there's a Greco Roman
uh support.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
After the college season's.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Over and and those guys go to Vegas and they
go to Ohio to compete and and you know, we
we can we have a similar vision now, Scott Green
and I have ties from Joe Demio and Scott Green
was my national team coach. I would say that we're
(15:56):
of the same brand when it comes to technical and
you know, an appreciation for certain positions and styles. And
last year I was I was able to go to
a couple of their camps and and participate with Jesse
Williams and and some other coaches and some of our
(16:20):
wrestlers and.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And it's just it's just a nice fit.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So when he asked me, I was coaching, So I
went Hicks as one of the wrestlers I was coaching.
I went in Vegas and I'm sitting with the West
Point coach. We have a great relationship, and it's just,
you know, it's, uh, it feels like I was already
a part of it, even though I wasn't right, I'm
already close with those guys, and.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
So the conversation was just kind of natural.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Okay, So given the fact that you you run a
a large and successful wrestling club, how is this going
to work as far as uh practices practice? Like you
I don't know, I mean you gave me like before
(17:10):
we started, obviously you like kind of brushed over it
a little bit, but like, how is this going to
work as far as the practices you run at Kirby
And then you're involvement with the West Point RTC.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
So at Kirby right now, our practices are at six thirty.
I have used practice sometimes before the six thirty practice.
There are gonna be some days where I can get out,
get to West Points only a couple hours and in
the afternoon and get back for the evening practices. There's
gonna be weekends where some of these some of these
(17:47):
practices we're gonna do are gonna be like a weekend clinic,
which at the club, I have more open matt more
open mats.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Than than practices.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
So our our our kids at our club get five
days of structured practice a week and then some open
mats on the weekend. So there are four plenty of opportunities.
And I have a great coaching staff. I have coach
Lanny Baker, I have coached d because I also coach.
We have a strong women's freestyle program up there too,
(18:22):
So I'm not just coaching boys folk style right now,
which is the season for that I'm coaching. We're coaching
girls freestyle at the same time. We have plenty of
space to do so, and we have fully dedicated staff
for the women's freestyle and for the boys folk style.
So I have a great team around me that allows
me if I have to take a day to go
(18:42):
down there to do so. But I I'm not taking
this position to as a as a sacrifice from the club.
I think it's just a compliment to the club. If
I think if it was going to take me away
from from the kids at developmental level, Uh, I have
(19:05):
a little.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Harder time with it.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But you know, being able to coach some of these
kids that are now twenty twenty one that came through
the program still and be a part of their you know,
Olympic goals is fantastic. So parents, I've had parents ask
me the same question you did, and I think it's
(19:28):
a completely fair one.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
They don't they want to know that.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Oh, I wasn't asking because I care.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
I mean, I've just wondered, like I know that you're
not going to short change those who go to the club, Joe.
That's not why I'm asking. I'm just wondering how you're
gonna do it, That's all.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Well, balance is important, You're I think it's a I
think I don't think. I think you're asking in a way.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
It's like.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Complimentary me personally balanced, So me me personally balances.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I strive for it.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Why are we even bothering to do this like it's serious,
just keep going.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah so so, but I do wanna. I do want to.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I like to do everything the best that I can,
so like it's serious obviously, because anytime I try to
attach myself to something, and I don't do that very much.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I've been I've been.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Asked to be a high school coach more times than
I can tell you, and I just won't do.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
It because it takes away from the club. This is
an opportunity. I think.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
It's just oh no, this makes too much sense. I
don't have That's not my thing about you. I'm just
just knowing you personally. You have two kids who are
kind of young, You've you're you know, married, and you've
got the club and then taking this on. That's kind
(20:54):
of what I'm I mean, actually, just in totality is
really I should have kind of specified that, you know,
because yeah, your days are usually pretty busy. They're not
as busy as you think they are but or pretend
they are, but they're busy. So I was curious as
to how this might look like on a like a
(21:14):
given weekly basis, Like, for instance, I don't know what
the RTC practice schedule tends to be. I imagine there
has to be some degree of coordination given you know,
class schedules and things like that, and then that corresponding
with your own involvement and so forth.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, they're so my opportunities to come down there and
and I'm I'm going to possibly host some of the
athletes up here. I think, you know, last year a
couple of them were able to come up on the weekend,
and we're able to get them some partners up here.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
That would also allow.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
You know, some of these young Greco wrestlers from from
the West Point RTC to get some different looks too.
So because we're close enough in proximity both around the table,
which just gives more opportunities.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Okay, well here then let's just go in to more
you know, somewhat if we can manage it.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I don't know if we can manage it based on
maturity levels, but we'll try. What considering considering that you have,
you know, like I think of Joe Couch obviously, because
he's like severely gifted. I think I think he has
an awful lot of potential. So take him for instance,
you know a lot of the West Point Greco wrestlers,
(22:37):
if not all of them. That said, you having a
formalized role with the RTC, Like do you start doing
individual assessments of each athlete breaking down you know, your
vantage point of perceived strengths and weaknesses, areas for improvement,
(22:58):
comparing head to head opposition, and so like do you
break all of this down, Like do you have a
methodology for parsing through data and comparing it? Given that
we're like, let's say you get back from the World
Championships for yourself and a month later is the New
York Tournament, So like that means the season to the beginning, Like, so,
(23:18):
how are you handling this as far as like, you know,
when it comes to pouring into individual athletes, it's especially
given some of the ability on that roster.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah, so Joe Couch is a great example.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I got to do a practice with him before NYAC
Bill Ferrell last year and Fabian as well, and I
think they were surprised that because they're both gifted in
folk style as well. And Fabian is like I'm kind
of you know, I'm picking this up, but it's kind
of new, and it's like I saw an Immen's talent,
(23:56):
Like I see a lot of similarities between former teammates
that then you and it's like, well, made them special
is just doing this stuff they did well better than
their opponents did what they did well. And so with
Joe Couch and Fabian we worked on a couple of
different things, but just based on the stuff I talked
to him, I interviewed him and say, yo, what's your
what's your go to?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
What you're scoring?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And you know, somebody says duck under, somebody says hip tosses,
and it's like, all right, let's see the setups, all right,
And then we're we're tweaking something like, well, how do
you get if this guy's I get stuck here? Okay,
let's clear this tie, create this set up and try that.
And they drill that and it's like, oh, I like
that right, And it's getting them to the move that
they're comfortable hitting. And so instead of learning a whole
(24:42):
what they think is a whole new sport, we're just saying, hey,
as a Greco guy, I know you're probably going to
get somebody's gonna be looking to put you into this position.
You got to learn how to clear this and get
to it, you know, create.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Your own.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Those Uh, those two were really fun to work with.
Fabian good Years and Joe Couch. They're so talented.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, they're both very kinetic.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
I mean, I'm biased a little bit obviously towards lightweights anyway,
but they're both very kinetic. Like there's a lot of movement,
even just for an American, there's a lot of movement.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And when I saw at Bill Ferrell, they had everything
they worked on in the camp, Now that's stuff that
they were already good at.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
It was just like.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
And some of it was just they just naturally did
and then some of them they look, you still have
to at the greco level. You still have to be
able to pummel clear under hooks when the initial tie
can be very stingy. It's very hard to score against
elite wrestlers when they have dominated the position. So if
(25:48):
they have a two on one you don't know how
to clear properly, you're probably gonna be in trouble. If
they have an underhook you don't know how to clear properly,
probably going to be in trouble. And these guys didn't
give up any negative positions and they were able to
get to their positions and they had they both.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Had a successful uh Bill Ferrells.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
So when I I got to work with Argon a
little bit, he he had more of a.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
You know, he has more of a.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Him and Altimer have more of more of a Greco
background than the other two.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Plus they're bigger. There's a little bit of rigidity.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Right, So like, so I I adjust to the athlete
and what I think is their style and and I
don't I think they appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
But I also have to make sure that I'm just like, oh,
you're not gonna just go.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Hit saltoes on people just because you like that move
like you have to still you you still have setups.
Everybody has that setups. So yeah, I don't like just
go watch film. I like to see them in person,
kind of talk to them because understanding where their mind
is that allows me to then go okay, because they
(27:04):
may hit something in film but they didn't want to right,
or their mindset wasn't there, or maybe it was out
a panic and they just got lucked. I want to
know what they're thinking when they're on the mat, and
then when I can understand what's then and as somebody
who has a blank slates like I don't know what
I'm thinking. Okay, then let's let's look at where you're
where we think you're good.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
We'll start we'll start from scratch on that. But these guys,
none of them presented that.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
They all have an identity, they're all talented, and they
all know how to wrestle.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
All right, Well, then let me just I'm gonna keep
it kind of near the same. I know, we only
have a few minutes left. The reason one of the reasons, okay,
aside from just I'm wondering how you break these things down,
but there's also this is that you coach a lot
of wrestlers. Like if you were to count them all up, right,
if you were to combine Curby now and west point RTC,
(27:57):
so with the west point RTC, like, would you be
would there be a situation in which, like you would
keep I don't know, you would log this stuff like
in a spreadsheet, like stuff that you've been working on
so you can come back to it consistently, you know
what I'm saying, Like a kind of more structured format
(28:20):
for you to keep tabs on as opposed to just
existing in conversations. If only because you coach so many
kids as it is.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, so I actually I put this. Some of the
best wrestlers I've coached, I've challenged to create their own
data sheet. So we'll go over something. It's like say,
all right, this is my number one move. Okay, well,
next tournament you go for your you hit your number ones.
I want to know how many times you attempted it,
(28:49):
how many times you scored off it, and how many
times your opponents.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Scored off of it.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
There you go, right, and you got to keep So
these I would have goal.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Sheets all over my.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
These little written in pencil goal sheets of their top five.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Things that like they want to do.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
And if they had a fifty percent success rate and
there are still a negative points, it's like that that
might not be your number one move.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Or if you want it to.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Be your number one move, let's look at yourselves. We
go watch film and say, all right.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
It might be your favorite move, it doesn't mean it's
the most effective.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
One, correct, And so you know, kids are well, I
want this to be Well, then then then you need
to make an adjustment on.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
How you're hitting it.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
You're you're either have no set up at all, or
you're hitting it from a possession of disadvantage, and so
when we started doing that, we started seeing kids change
their success rate on their on those moves or that's
that's for their attacking.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Now there might be a place where I keep getting.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
In trouble in this position and it's not it's not
their offense, it's their defense. And they're the way they
think about it. And it's like, you know how many
I keep getting armspun? Okay, well, are you digging under hooks?
And if you're digging irons, are you driving forward? Like
are you are you when you grab your own hook?
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Are you pulling? Are you clothing?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Are you making it so they can't collapse it or
whatever that looks like. We go look through the film,
it's like, all right, today, I want you to like
be conscious of how many armspins And we go obviously
go over county to teach the technique. You go over
it and you're like, Okay, I don't feel like anybody
can arm spin me anymore. And as we slowly take
these things out of the brain to like as stressors
(30:34):
and we clean these things up, the success has happened.
So I kind of put it on the athlete based
upon what they want to accomplish. Instead of me owning
their career, I help them with their career, but I
give them ownership of it. And then we go back
(30:55):
through this the goal sheet afterwards, right like, we'll go through, Hey, well,
let's re visit this in five months and see if
you made progress. I don't want to get turned on bottom. Well,
how about we change the goal to you either give
up zero points or you score points, and we look
to score on bottom. We look to take the position away,
and let's see, let's try these things, and let's see
(31:17):
if we can do these things.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
And then let's look at our stats.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
All right, I gave up six points in turns this match.
I scored two and pin the guy in this match,
and okay, we still got work to do. We don't
want to be giving up six It's that could cost
us a medal. And we go through and we still
are actively trying to make technical adjustments. But if they
(31:41):
if they can write these down and they can look
at their goals, they have a better chance to achieve them.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
And that was Joe Usselini, who is the founder of
Kirby three Style Wrestling in Troy, New York, a giant
giant facility. It's probably larger than some National Federation training
centers in Europe.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
And he is also, as.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Mentioned now, an assistant coach for the West Point RTC.
And well, yeah, he's a close friend. I think a
lot of people know that he's a close friend of mine.
But here's the funny part. Well, there's a couple. Well,
the first one is is that if you followed me,
like me personally on we'll call it x but Twitter,
some years back, it was a regular routine for me
(32:33):
to make fun of Ussolini. Actually it had begun on Facebook,
because what I had started doing was grabbing like profile
pictures of his and then using them as my own
on my personal Facebook, which I don't even use my
personal Facebook hardly. I think I averaged nine Facebook posts
a year, and most of those are what do you
(32:56):
call him shares or yeah, I guess, or reposts when
you post something else that someone else did. And the
only other thing I do on Facebook is changed my
profile picture. So it had begun with Ussolini, okay, And
that is how you pronounce it, by the way, in
the United States of America. Even though Joe now thinks
(33:18):
that he's uh, you know, super charged Mediterranean. But so
what I had done was I would take pictures of Joe.
I would grab them from his own I'd click on
photos on his profile, and then I click on profile photos.
And Joe's one of those dorks who, like, you know,
(33:39):
cares how he looks in pictures and things like that
and tries to look cool. And so what I was
doing was I was screen grabbing him and then using
him as my own.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Facebook profile picture.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
That's how it began, Okay, And I'll get to that
in a second, Okay. And so this carried over onto Twitter,
like during the pandemic era of Twitter. It was like
when it was at its apex, because I mean, the
cat's at the back now. But Max, now he made
a Twitter account at the time. Oh gosh, uh what
(34:15):
was it called? Oh man, we just we had a
concerted effort to you know, tease Joe. I guess you'd
call it cyber bullying. Unfortunately, maybe I don't know. I
don't know what was it. Headlocks and birdies, that's what
(34:42):
it was. Because Max is.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
A big golf guy, and.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
It's just his way of I don't know whatever.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Anyway, both of us would go and we would make
various memes and jokes and share pictures of Usselini on
Twitter and it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
And then Joe.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Started to ruin it because he said, and I'm paraphrasing,
but that he wanted me to stop using his picture
as like my profile picture on Facebook. I can't and
we're adults, we're like all in our forties. By the way,
with the exception, nowI that's the that's the funny part
(35:27):
about this. And so Usselini asked me to stop doing
it because he said that, you know, people might get
confused if they see like my profile with his picture
and yet go to his profile and obviously see him
and since he's like, you know, a wrestling businessman or whatever,
because he's got a club and I don't know whatever.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
So I stopped, and then I moved on.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
I stopped using Joe's face on my Facebook and moved
on to other people. You know, Andy, I think I
have currently, I usually have Max, I've had Spencer Mango.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I don't know. I'll cast the characters. But anyway, is
any of this important? No, it's not. It's not important.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
I'm just sharing it because I try to find something
to talk about in the post segment here we are,
but yes, that's how it was and I miss it.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Matt Champa, he knows the deal. Matt Champa.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
He's you know what, I'm in a weird mood. I'm
in a loose mood, which I never am. I'm usually
highly anxious when I have to record anything on here.
So what Champa is a clips gut, because yes it is.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
He's on X. Matt Champa.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
He's an awesome, influential and super important wrestling coach, particularly
in New Jersey. Eclipse Gut on X and he'll remember,
he remembers Terry Regner knows b sic nos, Parker Betts knows,
Chaz Bets, I'm Shore knows. Everybody knows. We were making
(37:04):
fun of Ussolini on Twitter. It was the best. But
Joe's a fantastic coach in all seriousness, fantastic coach. He
really totally cares about the athletes. He devotes himself to.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Helping them in any way that he can.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
He's a super important part of the United States Greco
Roman program. It's really difficult for me to talk about
him seriously. I'm trying my best, but the truth is
we need him we need Joe Usselini. We do, and
we also hope that if the brass involved with USA Wrestling.
(37:41):
I'm not going to mention names because I'm not really
burying anybody anyway, but they need to get it together
because Joe wants to bring back the Kirby Cup. So
the Kirby Cup would be fantastic, especially now with the
dearth of events on US soil. And that is something
(38:03):
that you know what that that's a drum needing.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
To be banged pretty loudly.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
But nevertheless, that's my boy Ussolini, and we will move
on to Joe, by the way, fancies himself on Instagram celebrity.
He thinks he's famous on Instagram because he'll share like
a technique or something that gets a million likes.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
And he's probably on TikTok. But I don't deal with
TikTok because.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
You know, I have too much self respect, so normally kidding,
I just don't want any part of TikTok at all,
not even for five point Move concerns. I don't care
if it would help five point move, which it probably would,
but that's just something we're taking a pass on, just
like Snapchat, just another I don't want to be associated
with those things. Then that's just me to each their own, well, no,
(38:50):
you know what, whatever, not to each their on I
don't think anybody should. But nevertheless, Coach Joe Usselini, oh gosh,
he's like all pro now, okay, so on on Instagram
it is at Coach Underscore Joe Underscore Usselini okay, and
(39:14):
on X he is Joe Underscore Ussulini at Joe Underscore Ussolini.
And to follow Dennis Hall on Instagram, you can do
so at Dennis Hall Underscore ud And for USA, GREC
and Roman news and athlete perspectives, please go to five
(39:35):
Point move dot com and as always, follow along on
X at five the number five pt Move. That's it
for episode sixty six. Everybody, thanks for listening, and we'll
see you soon.
I'll rip for on app.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Stop worrying about stupid procedures and do pull up sixt
morning about making self.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Gift Craig why we had a a podcast, the one
to call the pot point Move. I'm frustrated with the
way our Greco guy for me.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I just go with our true because there.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Are good athletes have good human beings, but rona win.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
We gotta help we get that. See what I want?
People know me from all of our results where everything
comes from five point Move.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Hello and welcome to episode sixty six of the five
point Move podcast. I'm Tim Hans, founder and senior editor
for five point move dot Com. Yes, it's been a
long gap between the last episode and this one. That
is something we will en deever to improve. But we
do have a guest this time around, and he's a name.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Who should be familiar, a familiar name.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Well, he clicked on this obviously you saw that it's
the one and only Joe Usselini, known as the Dawn
among his brethren from northern Michigan back.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
During the Golden Era and Bussolini.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
The reason why he's on is because last month September,
it had been announced that he had accepted an assistant
coaching role for the West Point RTC, and given at
the West.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Point RTC has.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Begun to really make an impact on the senior Greco
Roman circuit in the United States. We need him and
that was worth digging into with Ussolini, and we recorded
this not long ago. But as of now, Joe Ussolini
is imminently preparing to wrestle on the Veterans World Championships,
(01:55):
So by the time this is released, his results will
probably be out and that's just how that goes.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
But let's not waste time. And yeah, let's just get
right to.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
It first and foremost. How are you at this stage
going about training for the World Championships, the Masters World
Championships next month.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, as an older wrestler, I actually count my steps,
so I'm making weight. I'm going seventy kilograms. You've seen
me at that size and I'm about eight kilos over.
So I trained with some of the wrestlers at Wrestle
(02:41):
at the club, but really working on my conditioning, doing
a lot of dummy throws.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I take less risks on the mat.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I'm just really focused on one in the positions and
having the conditioning. I've been there once before. And I
took big risk and I paid a price. And I think,
if I just dominate my ties when I get out there,
I'll have no problems.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So you're eight kilos over with like a month out.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, okay, which is not bad because even at Vegas
this year, I was I think I was four kilos
the day before, and I ate every meal because I
was coaching and I didn't want to. I didn't want
to be like feeling drained coaching. The kids don't deserve that.
They deserve the best I can give. And so immediately
after the wrestling was done, I went in a weight
(03:37):
cutting mode. I did like three four workouts and I
got the weight off.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
So at our advanced age, I kind of tend to
posit that weight cutting is certainly easier than it was,
let's say, between the ages of you know, middle school
and even early college, because you're not fighting it anymore
physically so much.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, I'm done growing, right, And so I think when
I said I was a late bloomer, so weight cutting
wasn't even allowed on the table for me because my
parents knew I hadn't grown yet, and so they didn't
want me to stunt it. And I didn't hit my
growth till my senior year, so I really didn't. I
think that's probably why I'm still competing in the sport.
(04:25):
I didn't really have an adversarial relationship with with my
weight ever, and so at this point it's probably good
for me to get down to a weight where I
probably should be walking around at anyway, you know, just
to be a good father and somebody that can play
with their kids.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Does Does Jake Fisher coach you at all via proxy?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah? I mean I get I guess some string training advice.
I guess some.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I mean, honestly, I had the last two national tournaments
I had I think I had a broken hand at
a like a little bone in the top of my
hand that was broken, and wrestle with that out and
he kind of helped me like.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Work through that.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
And then uh, this year I had I had like
a dislocated clavical I think I have thorastic outlets syndrome.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
And he's like looking at.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Wait, what is that? What is it.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Called thoracic outlet syndrome?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
What did? I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's like, I think, like my favorite pictures on the Mets,
get it obviously because like seasons are always a mess,
but like it's a I think it's an entry that
for people I do a lot of rotational stuff, especially
in their shoulder and scap, and so I think it's
like a first rib in the front with like the
one of the ribs in the back press on nerves
(05:56):
and cause dysfunctions for your scap all the way down
to your hand. And what I think can happen is
the claviical my claviical dislocate so sticking out in the front.
And Jake and I are on the phone and I'm like, dude,
He's like, you should get you should get an ultrasound,
and I'm like, well, I'm wrestling next week. So like
(06:18):
I'm like looking up self adjustments you can get basically
every sort of chiropractic adjustment. Be is there an adjustment
for claviical and lo and behold there was. I'm like
in the mirror, like popping it back in and it's
it's something I labored through. But like, oh, I call
him anytime I need help with training physically. Fisher is
(06:39):
like the number one. He gets all the calls. I mean,
hoping he's out here soon. And I was trying to
get him to go on the trip with me. I'd
take him as a coach any day of the week.
Like he understands my strengths and weakness, is better than anybody.
And so yeah, I'd love to have him in my corner.
(06:59):
So I think eventually that's gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Isn't your wife like a massage therapist?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, she thinks I'm crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So well, I'm just saying some of the soft tips, Like,
so this sounds to me.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
I'm granted, like I'm a virtual no nothing, but some
of this sounds like there are at the very least
soft tissue, a neural pathway sort of problems here. No,
and so like, wouldn't you just ask her to, I
don't know, knead it out or something.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
So she did and then she actually what I like
about Like, so we obviously run the wellness center together.
And if she can't massage something out, she can feel
something out of place, she doesn't try to massage to
it because she knows it's now a joint.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
If it's she can tell me if it's.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Just muscular, and she can she can work through that,
and she can help she can help heal through through
the massage or covering or or whatever that is. Once
you realize there's some joint dysfunction, she's usually referring me
to like a chiropractor or to some sort of like
muscle energy technique to to readjust whatever joins.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Her muscle technique. What is a muscle energy technique?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
So I have a we have physical therapists that are
placed too that so he can adjust you're s like
so and that site joints at the base of your back.
A lot of wrestlers have that issue that don't even
know about you. Senior athletes are walking around limping right
now and they and they're having trouble.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Sleeping because they're sad, like nerve is all you know,
it's causing the problems.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yes, it's inflamed and they probably threw a headlock that
had resistance in the In the base of the backs,
there's those two joints and ones slightly shifted, and so
a chiropractic adjustment on that rarely ever works. Never worked
for me, and it's really painful when they the chiropractors
jumps sign your back is like, oh, I got it.
(09:02):
But a guy that does muscle energy technique will work
the muscles around that joint. It's like a it's like
a repetitive pulsing motion and does some stuff that kind
of realigns the pelvis and the and uh and the
joints in the back and and it was very helpful
and getting the assign back into I don't want to say,
(09:22):
I don't know how to speak in these turns, but
get it back into alignment. So there's just this like
Ashley's really good about, like not acting like she can
solve every.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Problem, but being able to have those the resources that
I do.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Obviously, even the injuries that I have, I know I
can find ways to to like kind of to wrestle
through them or make adjustments in the way I actually compete.
So I didn't take very much high risks at this
turn in Vegas this year.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I was just on two on ones. I hit some
lifts and that was it.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I didn't really really feel comfortable about hitting like any headlocks.
Thought that arm was really kind of tight, so.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I just kept it simple.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Okay, So what would you say, how many times a
week are you on the map practicing like legitimately practicing wrestling.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
AH two two the coach I always plan to wrestle
three to four. But I'm coaching and still the first priority.
If I can't, I'll just get the dummy throws in
and just call out my practice. I mean, I'm getting reps,
but yeah I'm not. I'm not getting good pummel gooes
(10:50):
more than twice a week.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
You're doing nothing from let's say.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Oh I actually fell in love with part tear defense,
I am doing part tare. I made that part of
my game because obviously, as a coach and I know
the country, our job is to develop. You know, we
look at the senior love. I think partaar is something
that we can be better at. I always reference Bay
(11:17):
Camal Bay about how he scores from bottom almost almost effortlessly.
He's got some he's got just good positioning. He's ready
to score on bottom. So I like to when I
teach it, I like to challenge the kids like, hey,
you got to try to gut me, and then I'm like,
I'm probably gonna pin you though, and then.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
We go from there and we learn.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
But I like being on I like the opportunity to whore. Obviously,
I don't want to be on bottom at all. I
want to tech the guy or pin them quick. But
if I'm on bottom, you know, I take a lot
of pride in my movement. I've been doing a lot
of part tear defensive movement. My ribs feel great, my
(11:58):
position feels great, so that I still do when i'm
Every time I practice, I work on that stuff.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Are there any of your kids at the club who
are within your weight range?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Can any of them defeat you?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
And No?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
A couple of my kids that might be able to
get me an hour in college and they're wrestling. They
wrestle at the once at West Point, the other's at
Saint John Fisher for Greco Altimer. He's not in high school,
but he could. He's a big boy. I still wrestle
at him.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Well, I mean he's ninety kilos.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Probably, Well, yeah, we we pummel. We have We're scheduled
to practice this week twice. He's just getting back, so
we have to.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
We have to.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
We're both working on things that we want to get done.
We're not going to be super high risk. But he's
a great look for me because he's just got such
power in his legs and he's really gonna he's gonna
push me. So I used to I work with Tom
Foot here and there. He's a heavyweight.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Is he is Tom Foot at your club? Currently?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
He comes twice a week? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Does he have partners?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yes, he has got Jose Rivera who's trying to make
a Puerto Rican world team next month.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
He's like.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
He's got some kilos to lose, but he's there. He'll
be a heavyweight. We have two heavyweights. We have another
one whose kid wrestles for us too. He's not competing,
but he's he's a monster. So we have Tom's got
two partners. And then Mike gives him some just some
good looks, but they're they Tom Foot's getting two practices
(13:46):
a week.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
He's getting good practice.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Is Tom Foot getting two practices in a week period?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Or is he getting two practices in a week with you?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Uh? Two with me?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I think he's getting others because he has some kids.
I don't know what it looks like a back at
at Williams, but he's got some guys that are that's
that big.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
So okay, yeah, all right, Well look, I mean we're
having this conversation at least publicly for a purpose, and
that is because in addition to being the you know,
founder and head coach of.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Kirby. You are also just recently.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Announced you recently announced I guess what last week or something,
that you're now also a coach for the West Point RTC.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Is this not correct?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
That is correct?
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Okay, So, given that the West Point RTC is growing
in prominence, particularly within the Greco program, let's unpack some
of this. So how did this come about? A rich
aside from you know, any kind of proximal circumstances.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Scott Green reached out recently about my interest in and
joining the RTC. I do have a couple of wrestlers
at Wrestle at West Point that have wrestled Greco for
me since they were an.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Age group style.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
That's some kids that are looking to wrestle at West Point.
Some of the look is because there's a Greco Roman
uh support.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
After the college season's.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Over and and those guys go to Vegas and they
go to Ohio to compete and and you know, we
we can we have a similar vision now, Scott Green
and I have ties from Joe Demio and Scott Green
was my national team coach. I would say that we're
(15:56):
of the same brand when it comes to technical and
you know, an appreciation for certain positions and styles. And
last year I was I was able to go to
a couple of their camps and and participate with Jesse
Williams and and some other coaches and some of our
(16:20):
wrestlers and.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And it's just it's just a nice fit.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So when he asked me, I was coaching, So I
went Hicks as one of the wrestlers I was coaching.
I went in Vegas and I'm sitting with the West
Point coach. We have a great relationship, and it's just,
you know, it's, uh, it feels like I was already
a part of it, even though I wasn't right, I'm
already close with those guys, and.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
So the conversation was just kind of natural.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Okay, So given the fact that you you run a
a large and successful wrestling club, how is this going
to work as far as uh practices practice? Like you
I don't know, I mean you gave me like before
(17:10):
we started, obviously you like kind of brushed over it
a little bit, but like, how is this going to
work as far as the practices you run at Kirby
And then you're involvement with the West Point RTC.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
So at Kirby right now, our practices are at six thirty.
I have used practice sometimes before the six thirty practice.
There are gonna be some days where I can get out,
get to West Points only a couple hours and in
the afternoon and get back for the evening practices. There's
gonna be weekends where some of these some of these
(17:47):
practices we're gonna do are gonna be like a weekend clinic,
which at the club, I have more open matt more
open mats.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Than than practices.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
So our our our kids at our club get five
days of structured practice a week and then some open
mats on the weekend. So there are four plenty of opportunities.
And I have a great coaching staff. I have coach
Lanny Baker, I have coached d because I also coach.
We have a strong women's freestyle program up there too,
(18:22):
So I'm not just coaching boys folk style right now,
which is the season for that I'm coaching. We're coaching
girls freestyle at the same time. We have plenty of
space to do so, and we have fully dedicated staff
for the women's freestyle and for the boys folk style.
So I have a great team around me that allows
me if I have to take a day to go
(18:42):
down there to do so. But I I'm not taking
this position to as a as a sacrifice from the club.
I think it's just a compliment to the club. If
I think if it was going to take me away
from from the kids at developmental level, Uh, I have
(19:05):
a little.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Harder time with it.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But you know, being able to coach some of these
kids that are now twenty twenty one that came through
the program still and be a part of their you know,
Olympic goals is fantastic. So parents, I've had parents ask
me the same question you did, and I think it's
(19:28):
a completely fair one.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
They don't they want to know that.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Oh, I wasn't asking because I care.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
I mean, I've just wondered, like I know that you're
not going to short change those who go to the club, Joe.
That's not why I'm asking. I'm just wondering how you're
gonna do it, That's all.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Well, balance is important, You're I think it's a I
think I don't think. I think you're asking in a way.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
It's like.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Complimentary me personally balanced, So me me personally balances.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I strive for it.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Why are we even bothering to do this like it's serious,
just keep going.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah so so, but I do wanna. I do want to.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I like to do everything the best that I can,
so like it's serious obviously, because anytime I try to
attach myself to something, and I don't do that very much.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I've been I've been.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Asked to be a high school coach more times than
I can tell you, and I just won't do.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
It because it takes away from the club. This is
an opportunity. I think.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
It's just oh no, this makes too much sense. I
don't have That's not my thing about you. I'm just
just knowing you personally. You have two kids who are
kind of young, You've you're you know, married, and you've
got the club and then taking this on. That's kind
(20:54):
of what I'm I mean, actually, just in totality is
really I should have kind of specified that, you know,
because yeah, your days are usually pretty busy. They're not
as busy as you think they are but or pretend
they are, but they're busy. So I was curious as
to how this might look like on a like a
(21:14):
given weekly basis, Like, for instance, I don't know what
the RTC practice schedule tends to be. I imagine there
has to be some degree of coordination given you know,
class schedules and things like that, and then that corresponding
with your own involvement and so forth.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, they're so my opportunities to come down there and
and I'm I'm going to possibly host some of the
athletes up here. I think, you know, last year a
couple of them were able to come up on the weekend,
and we're able to get them some partners up here.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
That would also allow.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
You know, some of these young Greco wrestlers from from
the West Point RTC to get some different looks too.
So because we're close enough in proximity both around the table,
which just gives more opportunities.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Okay, well here then let's just go in to more
you know, somewhat if we can manage it.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I don't know if we can manage it based on
maturity levels, but we'll try. What considering considering that you have,
you know, like I think of Joe Couch obviously, because
he's like severely gifted. I think I think he has
an awful lot of potential. So take him for instance,
you know a lot of the West Point Greco wrestlers,
(22:37):
if not all of them. That said, you having a
formalized role with the RTC, Like do you start doing
individual assessments of each athlete breaking down you know, your
vantage point of perceived strengths and weaknesses, areas for improvement,
(22:58):
comparing head to head opposition, and so like do you
break all of this down, Like do you have a
methodology for parsing through data and comparing it? Given that
we're like, let's say you get back from the World
Championships for yourself and a month later is the New
York Tournament, So like that means the season to the beginning, Like, so,
(23:18):
how are you handling this as far as like, you know,
when it comes to pouring into individual athletes, it's especially
given some of the ability on that roster.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah, so Joe Couch is a great example.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I got to do a practice with him before NYAC
Bill Ferrell last year and Fabian as well, and I
think they were surprised that because they're both gifted in
folk style as well. And Fabian is like I'm kind
of you know, I'm picking this up, but it's kind
of new, and it's like I saw an Immen's talent,
(23:56):
Like I see a lot of similarities between former teammates
that then you and it's like, well, made them special
is just doing this stuff they did well better than
their opponents did what they did well. And so with
Joe Couch and Fabian we worked on a couple of
different things, but just based on the stuff I talked
to him, I interviewed him and say, yo, what's your
what's your go to?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
What you're scoring?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And you know, somebody says duck under, somebody says hip tosses,
and it's like, all right, let's see the setups, all right,
And then we're we're tweaking something like, well, how do
you get if this guy's I get stuck here? Okay,
let's clear this tie, create this set up and try that.
And they drill that and it's like, oh, I like
that right, And it's getting them to the move that
they're comfortable hitting. And so instead of learning a whole
(24:42):
what they think is a whole new sport, we're just saying, hey,
as a Greco guy, I know you're probably going to
get somebody's gonna be looking to put you into this position.
You got to learn how to clear this and get
to it, you know, create.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Your own.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Those Uh, those two were really fun to work with.
Fabian good Years and Joe Couch. They're so talented.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, they're both very kinetic.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
I mean, I'm biased a little bit obviously towards lightweights anyway,
but they're both very kinetic. Like there's a lot of movement,
even just for an American, there's a lot of movement.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And when I saw at Bill Ferrell, they had everything
they worked on in the camp, Now that's stuff that
they were already good at.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
It was just like.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
And some of it was just they just naturally did
and then some of them they look, you still have
to at the greco level. You still have to be
able to pummel clear under hooks when the initial tie
can be very stingy. It's very hard to score against
elite wrestlers when they have dominated the position. So if
(25:48):
they have a two on one you don't know how
to clear properly, you're probably gonna be in trouble. If
they have an underhook you don't know how to clear properly,
probably going to be in trouble. And these guys didn't
give up any negative positions and they were able to
get to their positions and they had they both.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Had a successful uh Bill Ferrells.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
So when I I got to work with Argon a
little bit, he he had more of a.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
You know, he has more of a.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Him and Altimer have more of more of a Greco
background than the other two.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Plus they're bigger. There's a little bit of rigidity.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Right, So like, so I I adjust to the athlete
and what I think is their style and and I
don't I think they appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
But I also have to make sure that I'm just like, oh,
you're not gonna just go.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Hit saltoes on people just because you like that move
like you have to still you you still have setups.
Everybody has that setups. So yeah, I don't like just
go watch film. I like to see them in person,
kind of talk to them because understanding where their mind
is that allows me to then go okay, because they
(27:04):
may hit something in film but they didn't want to right,
or their mindset wasn't there, or maybe it was out
a panic and they just got lucked. I want to
know what they're thinking when they're on the mat, and
then when I can understand what's then and as somebody
who has a blank slates like I don't know what
I'm thinking. Okay, then let's let's look at where you're
where we think you're good.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
We'll start we'll start from scratch on that. But these guys,
none of them presented that.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
They all have an identity, they're all talented, and they
all know how to wrestle.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
All right, Well, then let me just I'm gonna keep
it kind of near the same. I know, we only
have a few minutes left. The reason one of the reasons, okay,
aside from just I'm wondering how you break these things down,
but there's also this is that you coach a lot
of wrestlers. Like if you were to count them all up, right,
if you were to combine Curby now and west point RTC,
(27:57):
so with the west point RTC, like, would you be
would there be a situation in which, like you would
keep I don't know, you would log this stuff like
in a spreadsheet, like stuff that you've been working on
so you can come back to it consistently, you know
what I'm saying, Like a kind of more structured format
(28:20):
for you to keep tabs on as opposed to just
existing in conversations. If only because you coach so many
kids as it is.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, so I actually I put this. Some of the
best wrestlers I've coached, I've challenged to create their own
data sheet. So we'll go over something. It's like say,
all right, this is my number one move. Okay, well,
next tournament you go for your you hit your number ones.
I want to know how many times you attempted it,
(28:49):
how many times you scored off it, and how many
times your opponents.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Scored off of it.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
There you go, right, and you got to keep So
these I would have goal.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Sheets all over my.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
These little written in pencil goal sheets of their top five.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Things that like they want to do.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
And if they had a fifty percent success rate and
there are still a negative points, it's like that that
might not be your number one move.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Or if you want it to.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Be your number one move, let's look at yourselves. We
go watch film and say, all right.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
It might be your favorite move, it doesn't mean it's
the most effective.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
One, correct, And so you know, kids are well, I
want this to be Well, then then then you need
to make an adjustment on.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
How you're hitting it.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
You're you're either have no set up at all, or
you're hitting it from a possession of disadvantage, and so
when we started doing that, we started seeing kids change
their success rate on their on those moves or that's
that's for their attacking.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Now there might be a place where I keep getting.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
In trouble in this position and it's not it's not
their offense, it's their defense. And they're the way they
think about it. And it's like, you know how many
I keep getting armspun? Okay, well, are you digging under hooks?
And if you're digging irons, are you driving forward? Like
are you are you when you grab your own hook?
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Are you pulling? Are you clothing?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Are you making it so they can't collapse it or
whatever that looks like. We go look through the film,
it's like, all right, today, I want you to like
be conscious of how many armspins And we go obviously
go over county to teach the technique. You go over
it and you're like, Okay, I don't feel like anybody
can arm spin me anymore. And as we slowly take
these things out of the brain to like as stressors
(30:34):
and we clean these things up, the success has happened.
So I kind of put it on the athlete based
upon what they want to accomplish. Instead of me owning
their career, I help them with their career, but I
give them ownership of it. And then we go back
(30:55):
through this the goal sheet afterwards, right like, we'll go through, Hey, well,
let's re visit this in five months and see if
you made progress. I don't want to get turned on bottom. Well,
how about we change the goal to you either give
up zero points or you score points, and we look
to score on bottom. We look to take the position away,
and let's see, let's try these things, and let's see
(31:17):
if we can do these things.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
And then let's look at our stats.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
All right, I gave up six points in turns this match.
I scored two and pin the guy in this match,
and okay, we still got work to do. We don't
want to be giving up six It's that could cost
us a medal. And we go through and we still
are actively trying to make technical adjustments. But if they
(31:41):
if they can write these down and they can look
at their goals, they have a better chance to achieve them.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
And that was Joe Usselini, who is the founder of
Kirby three Style Wrestling in Troy, New York, a giant
giant facility. It's probably larger than some National Federation training
centers in Europe.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
And he is also, as.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Mentioned now, an assistant coach for the West Point RTC.
And well, yeah, he's a close friend. I think a
lot of people know that he's a close friend of mine.
But here's the funny part. Well, there's a couple. Well,
the first one is is that if you followed me,
like me personally on we'll call it x but Twitter,
some years back, it was a regular routine for me
(32:33):
to make fun of Ussolini. Actually it had begun on Facebook,
because what I had started doing was grabbing like profile
pictures of his and then using them as my own
on my personal Facebook, which I don't even use my
personal Facebook hardly. I think I averaged nine Facebook posts
a year, and most of those are what do you
(32:56):
call him shares or yeah, I guess, or reposts when
you post something else that someone else did. And the
only other thing I do on Facebook is changed my
profile picture. So it had begun with Ussolini, okay, And
that is how you pronounce it, by the way, in
the United States of America. Even though Joe now thinks
(33:18):
that he's uh, you know, super charged Mediterranean. But so
what I had done was I would take pictures of Joe.
I would grab them from his own I'd click on
photos on his profile, and then I click on profile photos.
And Joe's one of those dorks who, like, you know,
(33:39):
cares how he looks in pictures and things like that
and tries to look cool. And so what I was
doing was I was screen grabbing him and then using
him as my own.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Facebook profile picture.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
That's how it began, Okay, And I'll get to that
in a second, Okay. And so this carried over onto Twitter,
like during the pandemic era of Twitter. It was like
when it was at its apex, because I mean, the
cat's at the back now. But Max, now he made
a Twitter account at the time. Oh gosh, uh what
(34:15):
was it called? Oh man, we just we had a
concerted effort to you know, tease Joe. I guess you'd
call it cyber bullying. Unfortunately, maybe I don't know. I
don't know what was it. Headlocks and birdies, that's what
(34:42):
it was. Because Max is.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
A big golf guy, and.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
It's just his way of I don't know whatever.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Anyway, both of us would go and we would make
various memes and jokes and share pictures of Usselini on
Twitter and it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
And then Joe.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Started to ruin it because he said, and I'm paraphrasing,
but that he wanted me to stop using his picture
as like my profile picture on Facebook. I can't and
we're adults, we're like all in our forties. By the way,
with the exception, nowI that's the that's the funny part
(35:27):
about this. And so Usselini asked me to stop doing
it because he said that, you know, people might get
confused if they see like my profile with his picture
and yet go to his profile and obviously see him
and since he's like, you know, a wrestling businessman or whatever,
because he's got a club and I don't know whatever.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
So I stopped, and then I moved on.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
I stopped using Joe's face on my Facebook and moved
on to other people. You know, Andy, I think I
have currently, I usually have Max, I've had Spencer Mango.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I don't know. I'll cast the characters. But anyway, is
any of this important? No, it's not. It's not important.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
I'm just sharing it because I try to find something
to talk about in the post segment here we are,
but yes, that's how it was and I miss it.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Matt Champa, he knows the deal. Matt Champa.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
He's you know what, I'm in a weird mood. I'm
in a loose mood, which I never am. I'm usually
highly anxious when I have to record anything on here.
So what Champa is a clips gut, because yes it is.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
He's on X. Matt Champa.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
He's an awesome, influential and super important wrestling coach, particularly
in New Jersey. Eclipse Gut on X and he'll remember,
he remembers Terry Regner knows b sic nos, Parker Betts knows,
Chaz Bets, I'm Shore knows. Everybody knows. We were making
(37:04):
fun of Ussolini on Twitter. It was the best. But
Joe's a fantastic coach in all seriousness, fantastic coach. He
really totally cares about the athletes. He devotes himself to.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Helping them in any way that he can.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
He's a super important part of the United States Greco
Roman program. It's really difficult for me to talk about
him seriously. I'm trying my best, but the truth is
we need him we need Joe Usselini. We do, and
we also hope that if the brass involved with USA Wrestling.
(37:41):
I'm not going to mention names because I'm not really
burying anybody anyway, but they need to get it together
because Joe wants to bring back the Kirby Cup. So
the Kirby Cup would be fantastic, especially now with the
dearth of events on US soil. And that is something
(38:03):
that you know what that that's a drum needing.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
To be banged pretty loudly.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
But nevertheless, that's my boy Ussolini, and we will move
on to Joe, by the way, fancies himself on Instagram celebrity.
He thinks he's famous on Instagram because he'll share like
a technique or something that gets a million likes.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
And he's probably on TikTok. But I don't deal with
TikTok because.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
You know, I have too much self respect, so normally kidding,
I just don't want any part of TikTok at all,
not even for five point Move concerns. I don't care
if it would help five point move, which it probably would,
but that's just something we're taking a pass on, just
like Snapchat, just another I don't want to be associated
with those things. Then that's just me to each their own, well, no,
(38:50):
you know what, whatever, not to each their on I
don't think anybody should. But nevertheless, Coach Joe Usselini, oh gosh,
he's like all pro now, okay, so on on Instagram
it is at Coach Underscore Joe Underscore Usselini okay, and
(39:14):
on X he is Joe Underscore Ussulini at Joe Underscore Ussolini.
And to follow Dennis Hall on Instagram, you can do
so at Dennis Hall Underscore ud And for USA, GREC
and Roman news and athlete perspectives, please go to five
(39:35):
Point move dot com and as always, follow along on
X at five the number five pt Move. That's it
for episode sixty six. Everybody, thanks for listening, and we'll
see you soon.
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