June 3, 2025 • 34 mins
Calgary Flames Defining Deals – Flames Unfiltered – Episode 245
Hosts- Brad Burud @BradBurud and Kyle Lewis @vanlewis14
--- EPISODE 245 ---
SPECIAL EPISODE
Join hosts Kyle Lewis and Brad Burud on Flames Unfiltered as they explore defining trades in Calgary Flames history, both triumphant and regrettable. The episode delves into pivotal moments like the Doug Gilmour swap, the transformative Jerome Iginla acquisition, and the impact of Dion Phaneuf and Theoren Fleury's departures. Brad and Kyle discuss both recent and past trades, including the Mathew Tkachuk for Jonathan Huberdeau transaction and its ramifications. Unearth memories of legendary players and explore trades that shaped the Flames, providing a rich mix of nostalgia and analysis.
Website: Flames Unfiltered
Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts
Watch: YouTUBE
Social Media – X - @FlameUnfiltered |FACEBOOK – Flames Unfiltered |INSTAGRAM – Flames Unfiltered | TikTok – flames.unfiltered
NHL #HockeyX #TalkinHockey #HockeyPodcast #Flames #cofred #nhlflames #calgaryflames #YYC #FireItUp
*Produced by Inside Edge Hockey News Media Group
Hosts- Brad Burud @BradBurud and Kyle Lewis @vanlewis14
--- EPISODE 245 ---
SPECIAL EPISODE
Join hosts Kyle Lewis and Brad Burud on Flames Unfiltered as they explore defining trades in Calgary Flames history, both triumphant and regrettable. The episode delves into pivotal moments like the Doug Gilmour swap, the transformative Jerome Iginla acquisition, and the impact of Dion Phaneuf and Theoren Fleury's departures. Brad and Kyle discuss both recent and past trades, including the Mathew Tkachuk for Jonathan Huberdeau transaction and its ramifications. Unearth memories of legendary players and explore trades that shaped the Flames, providing a rich mix of nostalgia and analysis.
Website: Flames Unfiltered
Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts
Watch: YouTUBE
Social Media – X - @FlameUnfiltered |FACEBOOK – Flames Unfiltered |INSTAGRAM – Flames Unfiltered | TikTok – flames.unfiltered
NHL #HockeyX #TalkinHockey #HockeyPodcast #Flames #cofred #nhlflames #calgaryflames #YYC #FireItUp
*Produced by Inside Edge Hockey News Media Group
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Hey, Flames fans, Welcome to another edition of Plays Unfiltered.
We are your host, Kyle Lewis and Brad Burrett. Brad,
we are doing another special summertime episode here.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
There's been a lot of fun so far, and I
won't expect this one to be anything different. Should be
a good time. We're gonna be talking about defining deals
in Calgary Flames history. The deals had changed the course
of the of the franchise and and in in good
and bad ways.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Right, we've got a well the scales my tip one
way a little bit, but yeah, there's I think every
team's got them. But when you really think about the
long term impact some of these deals, it's it's pretty
remarkable how far reaching they can be.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It is. I mean, we got we're going to talk
about some deals that are somewhat recent, and we're going
to talk about some it'll take us back just a
little bit, but we'll lay down we think are the
most defining deals and then give me a little insight
and some thoughts on each of those. So, I don't know, Kyle,
do you want to start or do you want me
to start with one that I feel is a defining deal?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I'll start because I think we may as well. We'll
get the one of the way everybody was talks about, right,
and that of course will be the Doug Gilmore trade.
So this is the obvious one, slow pitched down the
middle for our listeners. We've all, you know, covered a lots.
But I actually very recently got to meet Doug Gilmore
and in so doing, I looked at him and I said, hey,
(01:56):
as you know, I run a podcast with a great
guy in Nord to Go and he produces it and
we do it together. A few years after he'd started it,
and I said, we're actually doing some special episods. What
are the special episodes is the worst trades in Flames history?
I said, what do you think the first one we're
going to talk about is? And honestly, I the smirk
on his face it was it was pretty unreal. So
(02:18):
he took my stick. He's like, you want me to
sign this number thirty nine? Right? I said, if you
put ninety three, I'll tell you where he put that stick.
That got a pretty good laugh. So we actually get
to have a beer over it and talk about about
the trade. And obviously it was a contentious situation at
the time. It's widely regarded as the worst trade in
Flames history for a lot of good reason, and also
it's weird circumstances, and that Cliff Fletcher left Klger to
(02:41):
go to Toronto and acquire his own players, so to speak.
Right now, forgive me.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
On SIP, I can give you the details in the trade. Yeah,
the people who are listening that have forgotten, because there
was a lot of pieces that are impossible impossible to
Durham Mine September sixth, nineteen eighty eight to Calgary, Uh,
excuse me, to Saint Louis was Doug Gilmore, Mark Hunter,
(03:08):
Steve Bozk, Michael dark H To Calgary was Mike Boullard,
Craig Cox, and Tim Corkory.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Crazy. It's just crazy even know any.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Of those names. I mean, obviously we know more Mark
Hunter is but outside of that, and Steve Boseck maybe here,
but outside of that, names that uh, we don't We
don't know anymore. And it was a trade that looked
so lopsided right away. I mean, Hunter and Gilmore were
integral parts of that eighty nine Cup winning team and
(03:46):
it's just mind blowing that that deal even went down.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, well, and I mean he kind of forced to
hand because he walked out right.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Ah, it's you know, and as I was gonna say,
forgive me there, like you know, it's it's because you're
a little bit older than I am, but you would
have a much more vivid memory of that trade. But
even for me as a Flames fan, that trade taunted
me my entire life as a fan. It's just it's
constantly brought up. And you know what the worst of
it is this and this. This happened actually a couple
of times in the weekend with some some guys I
(04:20):
was playing hockey with it against. I remember one or
two of them saying the didn't even know the Gilmore
was a flame. It's like he won the Cup in Calgary.
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
You know, there was so many good players on that
team though that he was I don't want to by
no means what I ever say he was forgotten in
that Cup run. But there was such a vast number
of key parts that like, you know how like when
you when things are good and you get rid of one,
like initially you're just like, wow, we still have eight
other you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Mhm?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And that's kind of how I remember it being looked
at until like we like step back and looked at
the return and was like, but wait a second, like
none of this makes sense, and then we watch we
watched Gilmore go on and be such a a menacing,
scoring key player throughout his whole career. Yeah, it's like
(05:13):
what could have been? Right? And then that's that's what
all well.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, and it's and on the the other end of
Gilmore's career was you know, people forgetting or not even
knowing he played for Chicago, Buffalo, Montreal. It was actually
a pretty important piece for Montreal despite you know, being
the back nine of his career at the very end
of his career before we go back to Toronto and he
kind of went from being a very important piece in
(05:38):
Calgary to the absolute guy at Toronto.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I think there was a lot mark driven too. And
I mean I always really respected you know, you don't
what you know what made me respect Doug Gilmour so much?
And whether I'm talking about him in Saint Louis or
in Toronto or in Calgary or wherever, you knew what
you were getting every night with Doug Gilmore.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Oh yeah, there's not many players you know like him
in that respect.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
No, there is.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I mean, now we should also mention that you know
in this because it's you know, fairly recently the Leafs
get absolutely demolished in the second round. They haven't made
it that far like they have made it to an
Eastern Final since Gilmore was a Leaf. Think about that.
That's pretty wild for a huge market like that with
(06:25):
endless you know, bottomless pockets and before the cap era,
that's that's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I don't know how many years Doug Gilmore has been retired,
but it seems like a long time to me.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Doug. Actually, I know this because I remember how it happened.
He retired in two thousand and four.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Seria.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Well, he had the collision with Dave Lowry of the
Flames late in the season put them both on the
ir Lowry would come back because because Gore had a
deep playoff run, and I don't think Gilmore played again
after that. And then I you know, then lockout.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Like when that lockout happened, we lost a lot of
really good players and they was just a quiet because
when you don't have hockey for a year, if you're
at a higher age, it's harder to come back. And
then we just we just forgot right. I mean, great
players didn't come back.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
And I feel like I'm I feel like I'm name
dropping here, but I talked to Andrew Ferrets about that
of the weekend at length about how that lockout killed
that Flames team. It just killed them, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, it killed a lot of team. I mean, it
killed a lot of people's careers because you can't just
take a year off. I mean, and and albeit a
lot of players went overseas and played, and there was
other options, but it was a game changer for the league.
And and and then when the season started back up,
people were just so happy to have hockey back. They
didn't even like, you know, we're we forget so quickly,
(07:46):
such good players, we just do well.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
We were and I think an excitement hockey coming back
was a big part of that. But you know, as
you kind of louded to but at the end of
the day, I kind of felt like we had to
do the Gilmore trade first. Oh yeah, And it's not
like we didn't get good pieces in return. There was
a couple of pretty useful pieces. It's that, you know,
the guy was so important and became even more important agably,
like I said, maybe because of Spotlight Toronto, but was
(08:11):
such a huge piece. But there was just no there
was no long term plan there. It's not like here's
a much of prospects. We gotta shed some cash. It's
like here's a bunch of spare powers. Try and build
yourself a car. Right.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
It was like a hockey deal that was really a
bad deal.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
That was atrocious, atrocious. So now that we got that
one off the board and we could talk about that
for an entire probably three part you know series, the
throwing at me what do you what do you thinking for?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I'm gonna piggyback right off of that. And that was
a day. In December of nineteen ninety five. On the
nineteenth we traded another piece of that Stanley Cup winning season.
We traded Joe Newendike, a key center on that Stanley
Cup winning team, UH to the Dallas Stars UH for
(09:00):
Jerome mcginla and Corey Millen, which I have a Corey
Millon story for you too, if you care. But that
was a deal that it got me thinking today and
I haven't fully thought through this yet because I just
it just came to me today when I was thinking
about us talking about this, was that when we got
(09:23):
Jerome mcginla, Like, if you look at all we always
talk now that we need to go out and get
a big center, right, we need to get this big
superstar via the draft. And if you look at the
flame stars that we've gotten over the years, I mean
I would say, you know, Goodreau was a draft Flurry
(09:43):
was a draft Robin and Rigere we're going to talk
about him coming up here. We got him through a trade.
Things happened. I mean when we got Jerome mcginla, he
was a first round pick of the Dallas Stars, I
believe eleventh overall in that ninety five draft. So he
was just a young prospect and we we thought we
(10:05):
knew what we were getting and then turn out wonderfully
and change the future of the organization. But at the time,
people were pissed. And I remember when we gave up
Jeroman Nooney, people were pissed.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
M yeah, understandably. So nobody, I don't care what people
say now, nobody could have possibly predicted how good Jermangilla
was going to be. And in fact, in two thousand
and one, Craig Button tried to trade him to Buffalo
for Mike Peca. Can you imagine what that would have
done to this franchise? Oh so again and again. Las
(10:38):
said it himself in two thousand and one, two thousand
and two. You know, he decided he wanted to be
a start of the league. I think I've said that
on the show. Before he made the decision, he had
the tools and he'd put in the work, and I
remember Grant Fear telling him, you know, to stop trying
to be so fancy. Just shoot, you get a great shot,
keep shooting. But yeah, there was and I've read, you know,
some articles from that time period when new and Dyke
(10:58):
was traded. I mean, the guy I was, you know,
one of the best centers possibly you know, he could
argue the best center to ever play for the Flames. Yeah,
I mean, it couldn't couldn't worked.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
There we're leaving out the fact that like Joan doing
to kind of forced the hand on this trade.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
He did. Yeah, he absolutely did well.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I mean now in the situation.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Now, yeah, and this is the thing, I mean, as
much as we you know, people haven't didn't see to
shop on these trades, and because they were in a
lot of cases, bad or this one sharted really good.
You know, they still trading. Knew Mike was tough, but
I mean the economics of the time, the Canadian dollar,
you know, Winnipeg had left, Quebec was about to leave.
(11:49):
It was tough to get anything for these guys because
teams knew. I feel that the Flames are cast strapped.
It couldn't afford, you know, the deals these guys wanted,
and that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, why were one at me.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
For a trade?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well I'm looking at a list here. Well, you know
what I think, because if it kind of fits the
same vein we're in that night is there. Let's talk
about Theel Fleury.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That was another deal that was money driven. It was
a money field deal and and Fleury wanted money and
he was going in the Flames worst cast drop and
wasn't gonna happen. And as much as I remember this,
because I mean it was in nineteen ninety nine of
February twenty eighth, and the old Fleury was my favorite player,
And but you know what, when I look back at
(12:37):
it now, probably was the right timing, the right deal.
And really the return for the Flames was really good.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Phenomenal. Yeah, I think it's interesting to me if you
look at her best perspective of like the Avalanche. He
only finished the season there then signed the New York Right, Yes,
and the FLA James in Flurry and Fleury top of
this book, were actually not very far apart in contract docs.
Flury wanted, if I remember correctly, five years at five
(13:09):
point five, and I think the Flames were offering four
or five years at four point five, so a million
dollars apart. Now in the late nineties, that was a
bigger chasm than today.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
That was about four million dollars today, But I mean
it was there.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
It's yeah, like there were the negotiations were relatively close,
but they pulled the trigger. They made the trade. Then unfortunately, uh,
you know, Fleury had a terrible first year in New York.
His second season was quite a lot stronger until he
entered substance abuse program with the NHLPA. But his decline
(13:41):
as a player, and he said this himself, really kind
of began with his exits from Calgary.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
M and that deal was Deel Flury and Chris and
Dingman to Colorado for Renee corbe We Wade Black a
two thousand and second round pick, which ended up being
jured stole and defenseman Robin Gear, who was just a
prospect of the time. And and maybe you'll argue with me,
but I believe ended up being probably one of the
(14:07):
best defensemen in Flame's history.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
There's no he can't argue otherwise. He absolutely was. He
was Robert Gear. Those two thousand and four Cup runs
don't have without the cook up run doesn't have without him,
doesn't have not a chance, not a chance.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And don't get me wrong, I mean, I this this
deal when when Fleury left was was crushing to the
to me and and a lot of the fan base.
I mean, people love to feel flurry in Gullery. And
of course what he did for this organization was amazing.
I mean the energy that he he brought into that
Cup finals and and the years after, and and you know,
(14:44):
it was hard to see him go. But you know
when you look at how his life, the state, and
the demons that he was battling were starting to show through,
and then it just, yeah, it h collapsed after that.
And you feel bad for for the for the player,
for all that he has won through in his life.
But I feel like him leaving left. How do I
(15:09):
say this? I feel like him leaving when he did
left wonderful memories on the ice of him and we
didn't get it tarnished in Calgary. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah? I think so. It was the end of an era.
If not for the emergency, again, it could have been conceived,
it could have been the end of the team. Quite frankly, Yeah,
he was the last piece of that and he didn't
want to go.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I mean no, and he still says it. He's a
Calgary Flame, Like, yeah, he loved his time in Calgary.
Everything I've seen of him after this is he speaks
so highly of everything that happened in Calgary.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
His comeback attempt in two thousand and nine, how exciting
that was, Oh so exciting. I'll never forget that as
long as I live.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
That shootout goal might be in the top twenty Flames
goals of all time. I'm not even joking. Like the
reno it was was crazy.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, and it's such a shame. I mean, and I don't,
you know, thinking back on that team, like you know,
Brent Sutter had his own, uh kind of agenda and
and kind of said, you know, if Flur's not gonna
play the top two lines. He's not gonna play. We
all still can't help, but wonder what, you know, what
would have been? Maybe could he have potted twenty goals
at that age in that condition? Probably? But anyway, you know,
(16:28):
back to the trade though, like that, much like the
Igidland trade, really worked a fantasticity for Calgary.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
M hm.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
So yeah, all right, hit me m tough.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Let's go back to one, that one that brings me
back to just to me and you and I in
our conversation, it's a recent trade and it is still
to be determined as a defining deal, but it was
to me such a mammoth trade that I don't know
how it's not defining in some weight or form for
(17:05):
this organization. And that was the July twenty second, twenty
twenty two trade of Jonathan Huberdo to Calgary where we
dealt Matthew Kachuck to Florida for Jonathan Huberto, McKenzie Wieger,
Cole Schwindt and a first rounder in twenty twenty five. Yeah.
So I know this is recent, and I know we've
(17:25):
had our ups and downs on this deal, but it's giant.
I mean, k Chuck tied the hands of the organization.
That's not fair. Kochuck was open and up front, kind
of tied the hands. It was the first sign and
trade that we ever really saw, and that was an
eight year, seventy six million dollar deally signed with for
a living and then was shipped off to Florida. But
(17:48):
the return for a guy that wasn't coming back to Calgary,
I thought was very very good. And I still, albeit
the Huberto ups and downs and a lot better the
year this year, I still think this was a huge win.
Because we still call this a hubert Oh deal. It's
as much a weaker deal as it is a huberd
od deal.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
You think you're already, it's more so a weaker deal. Wiger
is kind of already earmarked to be the next captain
of the Flames at the yea like at the time,
like when the Stull went down. It probably doesn't happen
at all if the Flames hadn't bridged Kachuk in his
previous contract, which you know they also done with Caudrou
and they had what I would dare say was a
bit of a bad habit of not you know, pushing
(18:29):
all the chips in on their top young players, and
it's a gamble and it could have worked out great
in both cases. It didn't. Now with Kachuk, I remember
being an absolutely. I remember that day so well. I
was I just dropped my girlfriend off of the airport.
I was in bed that night and my buddy Rob
and Calgary sort of blow me up and it's like,
what the hell is even happening? And then I started
reading through them, like, holy hell, this is a massive trade.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I remember. I'm gonna tell you my side of my
where I was. I'll never forget it. I was at
a was at a concert. It was night Ranger was
on stage, and it was an outdoor concert and it
was delayed because of a tornado which we could visibly see,
and so all the people at the concert were on
(19:16):
their phones because of the tornado. And I got a
text from you saying I wish I would have saved
that text. It was something about are you seeing this?
And I was like what, And then my phone just
started going crazy. But it was going crazy and I
couldn't read anything, So like I knew something was going on,
(19:37):
but I couldn't read it. And then you're like the
deal and I'm like, you want to tell me the
deal because I can't get in it because the cell
phones were just jammed. And I remember seeing it when
I got home about eleven o'clock that night, and I
was like, in awe, I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, I wonder I'm actually looking at our conversation because
I don't think I've ever deleted it.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
It was July twenty second, twenty twenty two, and the
deal went down about eight thirty Calgary time.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, I don't think I can get that far back.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
That's a long ways back, Kyle. Come on, how many
text messages we've had since then?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Not as many as I would have thought. But where
are we here? Or back a year already?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Man?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Where does the time four more.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Years to go or three more years ago?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It was.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
It was one of those nights like you know how
you just remember where you were in certain events, and
that was one of them. I just I really remember,
and I remember how happy we were because I mean
the thoughts of getting one hundred and fifteen assists leader
in the in the NHL and a young defenseman and
Mackenzie Wiger and there was high hopes for Cole Schwint
also and then a first round were with it. I'm like,
(20:55):
this is a giant return for a guy that wasn't
coming back to Calgary, right.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Probably the biggest attorney could ever hope to get for
a guy who's not coming back. Think about the other
trades we just talked about. It's like, man, but.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, yeah, why is a fan base that we still
boo who this trade?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Because Chris Chuck's played in three straight Stanley Cup finals
and you know, good chance will win a second Stanley Cup, right, but.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's out of our control and we weren't getting to
get his services any longer.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
No, But there's just that inclination to think that.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Right, I know, I know, it's Uh, it's that whole one.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
F thinking, which we're all guilty of the time. So
you know, I try not to I try not to dwell,
but I do all lots of other stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Was it twenty two or twenty three? That trade?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I thought it was twenty two? Was it? No, it
was twenty twenty two. You sure, I'm gonna type it
into the computer right now.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I bought a Hooper too a shirt in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
You can probably got it in sale.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, that's correct, I did so, You're right, would have
been twenty two. I think I think shirt the time
to be alive.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
That is something. Yeah, it was in July twenty five.
It was well this article.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, you always check your facts.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I should I got it, I got it right. Yeah,
July twenty second, twenty twenty two is the day of
the deal or the night of the deal.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Oh man, you know what I might be able to
find this I'm under a year away now.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Okay, well, let's uh, let's keep talking about the deal
and the fact that, like I still I would, I
still am a little upset that we don't have Cole
Swint anymore. We lost him on waivers this year, him
so much, did I Well, we were we're so we're
so decimated and on centered depth and he was a
bigger body center that I thought I still hadn't lost
hope on him, right, And he had playing time for
(22:48):
Vegas all the way into you know, all the way
through the end of the season. So I don't know,
we'll see what, we'll see what that one ever transpires.
But you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna while you're looking
at that, I'm gonna talk about another personal memory of
a of a deal that went down.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I got back to Generate twenty three. That's as far
as I can.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Go really, so you were close.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, all good, so good.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Another and then I'll let you talk about one here
before we go. But another personal memory of a trade
when it went down. Uh, the day that the Dion
Finoff got traded to Toronto with Oh Man, I know
exactly where I was. I was out too a bunch
of snow and my phone was dinging. I hit my
AirPods in and they were dinging, and I'm just wasn't AirPods.
(23:32):
It was probably just headphones back then. It was in
twenty ten. I didn't have AirPods. Uh, but my phone
was just dinging. And then that there was this deal
and I was out in the snowstorm shoveling. I was
reading the deal. I was just like, I don't know.
At the time, I didn't really know what to do.
All I thought was, oh, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I remember thinking there was some locker room the rest
of the time. I remember Brian Burke saying that he
was with the Leaf saying that you know, the Flames
would make the playoffs after that trade, and I remember thinking,
I don't think they will and stage it had a
really hot start against uh Carolina, I believe.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
But actually one points in fifty five games after that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
So yeah, we should recap what the trade was though
for those.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Schlas Hagman Ian White and Jamal Mayers to Calgary to
Toronto is Dionne Fanough, Frederick Short and Keith Allie.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Okay, Keith Allie was a world junior defenseman for Canada,
was really highly highly regarded. I was actually I remember
now that you say that, I remember being really pissed
he was involved in that trade. Did you ever see
the documentary? I think it was on CBC Bode and White.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
No, I didn't see that one.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Oh heartbreaking the guy fell off a cliff got having
the drugs last and who's playing in the KHL. But
he was not a well man at all.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
And I'm gonna have to look that one up.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And I mean, I don't know anything since then. I
mean I would we certainly don't get too deep into
that kind of stuff on this podcast, but it's hopefully
he turned his life for him and that was that
was a sad situation, very sad situation.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Was he he was only in Calgary for the rest
of that year, right, but was was good. I remember he.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Played the following season. He's actually the one that and
I shouldn't say it like this because it wasn't his fault.
He played the next season and he had broken a
vertebrand Damon Linkou's neck with that slap shot.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Oh yeah, but he was because he was pretty prolific offensively.
He was kind of the the one of the next
to stage and the key piece coming back in that trade.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Right yeah. Because and then he went on under Pittsburgh, right,
I believe he went from here to Detroit.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
He went to Detroit then to Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Man, because he was a lot of places I know that.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Uh did he play bits? I can't remember now.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Let's I thought he played in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Let's see he played in It's funny to think about
this stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, you don't work.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
He played the rest of that season and the next
season in Calgary. They barely played that. He was in Carolina,
San Jose and Detroit.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Never Pittsburgh, huh no no.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And then he went to the K he played his race.
He is twenty three twenty four for Norfolk in the
East Coast Hockey League. That's wild.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah you didn't even hear that would have been like
a comeback story. Yeah, he wasn't ever in Pittsburgh. I
don't know why I thought that. Oh well, that was right,
that was wright. Do you have one more deal?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I've done this before, but I'm going to do it
again because I'm still mad about it. I talked to
somebody about this trade on the weekend. Doo. I forget
who it was, but my contender for worst trade and
Flames history to this day and forever more will be
the trade of Mark si Art to Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Oh yeah, you've talked about this.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
So and maybe we'll squeeze in one more because I
can do this really quickly because it's really so simple.
Mark Sivard was coming off a seventy three point season
in Calgary and I didn't look that up. I'm quite
confident you can look it up yourselves. That's the correct
number of points. I'm really good with numbers. He got
dealt to Atlanta for Roslin Zanealin, who never played in
(26:57):
the NHL one for one. Remember that, like on TSM Litchles,
the trade is one for one. So Savard goes to
Atlanta becomes a star where he was a star player.
Quite frankly, it comes basically a superstar, and even more
so with the Bruins. Shortly thereafter, Zanalin never comes. The
reason they traded Savard was Conroy had clicked with the
(27:19):
Gidlow and Savard was hurt. Savard couldn't get to Greg
Gilbert's doghouse. They traded Savert, then they fired Gilbert. They
get rid of the player and the coach. When the
hell has that ever happened?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
The easy thing nowadays is just get rid of the coach, right.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Well, you do one of the other. Like what that was?
That was tia what do they call him? TSN head
of scouting, Craig Button, And I like Craig Button, don't
get me wrong, But that was That was a rough,
rough trade. And I think he's spoken about it since,
and I'd like to ask him just to say, like,
and hey, hindsight's twenty twenty. I'm sure at the time
he must have thought Zanalin was gonna be something. But man,
(27:54):
what a brutal, brutal trade. And I will say that
you can make the argument it's worse than good, more
trad because at least the Gilboard trade. We got stuff.
We got nothing from Mark Siverd, who was one of
the best centers in the NHL from about two thousand
and four or five to his retirement around twenty eleven
due to injury. So I'll leave it at that. Feel
(28:15):
free to share some thoughts on the thrown onother one
at me.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I will end with a positive before we leave, and
it'll be a quick one. But it was a minor
deal that turned into a giant deal for this and
definitely a defining deal November sixteenth, two thousand and three
to Calgary Mika Kippersoft for a second round pick of
two thousand and five, which ended up being Mark Edward Lassek,
who was a hell of a player.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah. Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Kippersoft was the single reason we went on the four run,
a single reason, yep. And this deal went down because
GM Darryl sutter knew Kippersoft from his days in San
Jose and San Jose I believe, had three or or
(29:00):
really good goalies Vesa Toscoa I believe at the time,
and well who is the bakoff getting the back off also,
and so they had a plethora of goaltenders that were
good and uh he was brought up as a backup
to Roman Turk and ended up.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Uh, you know, it's fun. Actually I talked to Andrew
Ferrence the Roman Turk's name become out ference is still
good buddies with Turk, and I mentioned how Turk Restruction
is contract to stay with the Flames and that's that
the three zero four season, and Farrence actually forgot about
It was a fun chat. So it's really hard to
(29:41):
overstate the importance of that trade. That that's probably the
greatest trade in Flames history, and it's.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Actually a quiet trade.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
It's a testament of how good Kippersoft was because the
fact that Lastik was the piece of went back to
Santa became the piece of back to San Jose, who
was a damn good defenseman, one of the better defensemen
for about ten years, is pretty telling. It actually worked
out pretty and you can remember too where Santase as
you said, had that lot of Yeah, it.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Going good for San Jose because they got the pick
right and then their scouting staff did a hell of
a good job in getting plastic, so they I mean
they had goaltenders. I mean it's not like bes A
Tosco that didn't run off a good string and beginning
to back off also, so San Jose it was a
win win for both organizations, right, it really was.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, tremendously so. And when you consider that San Jose
had those three goaltenders and Tosco in a back off kippersoft. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I do bet though that San Jose was a little
bit hurt when Calgary beat him around three.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Do you imagine that feeling? I mean, put yourself in
the shoes of the Sharks from the guy you traded
in November of that year knocks you out in the
conference finals.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yeah, I kind of forgot about that because you know,
on hindsight, you don't think about that quite so much.
But at the time, yeah, like, man.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's it's crazy. How how you know, Like when I
started thinking about doing this topic and we mean you
discussed it, it's like the biggest deal since we became
co hosts or whatever on this show was is the
is the Hubert oh thing? So that's the biggest deal
since we started working together on this project. But I
mean this this organization has had some big deals, like
(31:24):
some really big deals that have went really good, and
then some that have went really really bad. And I
guess you know what, if we pulled up every other franchise,
we could probably say the same thing.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Sure, we just sta have a tendency to remember the bad,
but we forget about the wonderful ones like the Kippersoft one.
You know, like how well the theo Flurry one turned
out for the flames, how well the Aginla one turned
out for the flames, And so there's there's some good
there too.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I think you know what we talked about, like a
we did an episode obscure Flames, it'd be cool to
do one obscure trades. Yeah, you know, these are kind
of the big ones, but I think, you know, down
the road, we should look at that because I bet
there's some really cool trades we totally forgot about, I'm sure,
And there's some that we know. There's there's some like
(32:10):
the big one from January this year for fairbeing fro Us,
So we can't really judge yet, so we'll have to
revisit that next season as well.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
For sure, wholesome to talk about. And Kynlee and I
enjoy doing this show and we're gonna be doing it
through the whole summer. We appreciate everybody listening. We hope
you enjoy these best special episodes. And Kyle and I
talked about doing these. I mean, I thought they were
going to be fun. I did not realize they'd be
as fun as they have them thus far. I really
enjoyed comment.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
That's been awesome. Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Well I'm so. I keep enjoying your summer. We're back
again next week with another special episode. I'm looking forward
to the next one too, so make sure you check
us out again next week. We enjoy each and every
or anybody that reaches out. We enjoy that too, and
we love your questions and your comments. Check us out
on the web at Flamesinfildberg dot ca A and on
(33:00):
every podcast player, and you can watch us on YouTube. Also,
thanks for listening. Enjoy your summer. We're back next week.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Have a good new post, take care of them.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Thanks for listening to Flames Unfiltered with Brad Burud and
Kyle lewis your source for unfiltered Calgary Flames hockey Talk.
Keep it locked on Flames Unfiltered dot c A subscribe
where you get all your podcasts to never miss an
episode Flames Hockey Talk
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Every week presented by Inside Edge Hockey media group,
Hey, Flames fans, Welcome to another edition of Plays Unfiltered.
We are your host, Kyle Lewis and Brad Burrett. Brad,
we are doing another special summertime episode here.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
There's been a lot of fun so far, and I
won't expect this one to be anything different. Should be
a good time. We're gonna be talking about defining deals
in Calgary Flames history. The deals had changed the course
of the of the franchise and and in in good
and bad ways.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Right, we've got a well the scales my tip one
way a little bit, but yeah, there's I think every
team's got them. But when you really think about the
long term impact some of these deals, it's it's pretty
remarkable how far reaching they can be.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It is. I mean, we got we're going to talk
about some deals that are somewhat recent, and we're going
to talk about some it'll take us back just a
little bit, but we'll lay down we think are the
most defining deals and then give me a little insight
and some thoughts on each of those. So, I don't know, Kyle,
do you want to start or do you want me
to start with one that I feel is a defining deal?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I'll start because I think we may as well. We'll
get the one of the way everybody was talks about, right,
and that of course will be the Doug Gilmore trade.
So this is the obvious one, slow pitched down the
middle for our listeners. We've all, you know, covered a lots.
But I actually very recently got to meet Doug Gilmore
and in so doing, I looked at him and I said, hey,
(01:56):
as you know, I run a podcast with a great
guy in Nord to Go and he produces it and
we do it together. A few years after he'd started it,
and I said, we're actually doing some special episods. What
are the special episodes is the worst trades in Flames history?
I said, what do you think the first one we're
going to talk about is? And honestly, I the smirk
on his face it was it was pretty unreal. So
(02:18):
he took my stick. He's like, you want me to
sign this number thirty nine? Right? I said, if you
put ninety three, I'll tell you where he put that stick.
That got a pretty good laugh. So we actually get
to have a beer over it and talk about about
the trade. And obviously it was a contentious situation at
the time. It's widely regarded as the worst trade in
Flames history for a lot of good reason, and also
it's weird circumstances, and that Cliff Fletcher left Klger to
(02:41):
go to Toronto and acquire his own players, so to speak.
Right now, forgive me.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
On SIP, I can give you the details in the trade. Yeah,
the people who are listening that have forgotten, because there
was a lot of pieces that are impossible impossible to
Durham Mine September sixth, nineteen eighty eight to Calgary, Uh,
excuse me, to Saint Louis was Doug Gilmore, Mark Hunter,
(03:08):
Steve Bozk, Michael dark H To Calgary was Mike Boullard,
Craig Cox, and Tim Corkory.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Crazy. It's just crazy even know any.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Of those names. I mean, obviously we know more Mark
Hunter is but outside of that, and Steve Boseck maybe here,
but outside of that, names that uh, we don't We
don't know anymore. And it was a trade that looked
so lopsided right away. I mean, Hunter and Gilmore were
integral parts of that eighty nine Cup winning team and
(03:46):
it's just mind blowing that that deal even went down.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, well, and I mean he kind of forced to
hand because he walked out right.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Ah, it's you know, and as I was gonna say,
forgive me there, like you know, it's it's because you're
a little bit older than I am, but you would
have a much more vivid memory of that trade. But
even for me as a Flames fan, that trade taunted
me my entire life as a fan. It's just it's
constantly brought up. And you know what the worst of
it is this and this. This happened actually a couple
of times in the weekend with some some guys I
(04:20):
was playing hockey with it against. I remember one or
two of them saying the didn't even know the Gilmore
was a flame. It's like he won the Cup in Calgary.
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
You know, there was so many good players on that
team though that he was I don't want to by
no means what I ever say he was forgotten in
that Cup run. But there was such a vast number
of key parts that like, you know how like when
you when things are good and you get rid of one,
like initially you're just like, wow, we still have eight
other you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Mhm?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And that's kind of how I remember it being looked
at until like we like step back and looked at
the return and was like, but wait a second, like
none of this makes sense, and then we watch we
watched Gilmore go on and be such a a menacing,
scoring key player throughout his whole career. Yeah, it's like
(05:13):
what could have been? Right? And then that's that's what
all well.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, and it's and on the the other end of
Gilmore's career was you know, people forgetting or not even
knowing he played for Chicago, Buffalo, Montreal. It was actually
a pretty important piece for Montreal despite you know, being
the back nine of his career at the very end
of his career before we go back to Toronto and he
kind of went from being a very important piece in
(05:38):
Calgary to the absolute guy at Toronto.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I think there was a lot mark driven too. And
I mean I always really respected you know, you don't
what you know what made me respect Doug Gilmour so much?
And whether I'm talking about him in Saint Louis or
in Toronto or in Calgary or wherever, you knew what
you were getting every night with Doug Gilmore.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Oh yeah, there's not many players you know like him
in that respect.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
No, there is.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I mean, now we should also mention that you know
in this because it's you know, fairly recently the Leafs
get absolutely demolished in the second round. They haven't made
it that far like they have made it to an
Eastern Final since Gilmore was a Leaf. Think about that.
That's pretty wild for a huge market like that with
(06:25):
endless you know, bottomless pockets and before the cap era,
that's that's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I don't know how many years Doug Gilmore has been retired,
but it seems like a long time to me.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Doug. Actually, I know this because I remember how it happened.
He retired in two thousand and four.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Seria.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Well, he had the collision with Dave Lowry of the
Flames late in the season put them both on the
ir Lowry would come back because because Gore had a
deep playoff run, and I don't think Gilmore played again
after that. And then I you know, then lockout.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Like when that lockout happened, we lost a lot of
really good players and they was just a quiet because
when you don't have hockey for a year, if you're
at a higher age, it's harder to come back. And
then we just we just forgot right. I mean, great
players didn't come back.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
And I feel like I'm I feel like I'm name
dropping here, but I talked to Andrew Ferrets about that
of the weekend at length about how that lockout killed
that Flames team. It just killed them, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, it killed a lot of team. I mean, it
killed a lot of people's careers because you can't just
take a year off. I mean, and and albeit a
lot of players went overseas and played, and there was
other options, but it was a game changer for the league.
And and and then when the season started back up,
people were just so happy to have hockey back. They
didn't even like, you know, we're we forget so quickly,
(07:46):
such good players, we just do well.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
We were and I think an excitement hockey coming back
was a big part of that. But you know, as
you kind of louded to but at the end of
the day, I kind of felt like we had to
do the Gilmore trade first. Oh yeah, And it's not
like we didn't get good pieces in return. There was
a couple of pretty useful pieces. It's that, you know,
the guy was so important and became even more important agably,
like I said, maybe because of Spotlight Toronto, but was
(08:11):
such a huge piece. But there was just no there
was no long term plan there. It's not like here's
a much of prospects. We gotta shed some cash. It's
like here's a bunch of spare powers. Try and build
yourself a car. Right.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
It was like a hockey deal that was really a
bad deal.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
That was atrocious, atrocious. So now that we got that
one off the board and we could talk about that
for an entire probably three part you know series, the
throwing at me what do you what do you thinking for?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I'm gonna piggyback right off of that. And that was
a day. In December of nineteen ninety five. On the
nineteenth we traded another piece of that Stanley Cup winning season.
We traded Joe Newendike, a key center on that Stanley
Cup winning team, UH to the Dallas Stars UH for
(09:00):
Jerome mcginla and Corey Millen, which I have a Corey
Millon story for you too, if you care. But that
was a deal that it got me thinking today and
I haven't fully thought through this yet because I just
it just came to me today when I was thinking
about us talking about this, was that when we got
(09:23):
Jerome mcginla, Like, if you look at all we always
talk now that we need to go out and get
a big center, right, we need to get this big
superstar via the draft. And if you look at the
flame stars that we've gotten over the years, I mean
I would say, you know, Goodreau was a draft Flurry
(09:43):
was a draft Robin and Rigere we're going to talk
about him coming up here. We got him through a trade.
Things happened. I mean when we got Jerome mcginla, he
was a first round pick of the Dallas Stars, I
believe eleventh overall in that ninety five draft. So he
was just a young prospect and we we thought we
(10:05):
knew what we were getting and then turn out wonderfully
and change the future of the organization. But at the time,
people were pissed. And I remember when we gave up
Jeroman Nooney, people were pissed.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
M yeah, understandably. So nobody, I don't care what people
say now, nobody could have possibly predicted how good Jermangilla
was going to be. And in fact, in two thousand
and one, Craig Button tried to trade him to Buffalo
for Mike Peca. Can you imagine what that would have
done to this franchise? Oh so again and again. Las
(10:38):
said it himself in two thousand and one, two thousand
and two. You know, he decided he wanted to be
a start of the league. I think I've said that
on the show. Before he made the decision, he had
the tools and he'd put in the work, and I
remember Grant Fear telling him, you know, to stop trying
to be so fancy. Just shoot, you get a great shot,
keep shooting. But yeah, there was and I've read, you know,
some articles from that time period when new and Dyke
(10:58):
was traded. I mean, the guy I was, you know,
one of the best centers possibly you know, he could
argue the best center to ever play for the Flames. Yeah,
I mean, it couldn't couldn't worked.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
There we're leaving out the fact that like Joan doing
to kind of forced the hand on this trade.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
He did. Yeah, he absolutely did well.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I mean now in the situation.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Now, yeah, and this is the thing, I mean, as
much as we you know, people haven't didn't see to
shop on these trades, and because they were in a
lot of cases, bad or this one sharted really good.
You know, they still trading. Knew Mike was tough, but
I mean the economics of the time, the Canadian dollar,
you know, Winnipeg had left, Quebec was about to leave.
(11:49):
It was tough to get anything for these guys because
teams knew. I feel that the Flames are cast strapped.
It couldn't afford, you know, the deals these guys wanted,
and that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, why were one at me.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
For a trade?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well I'm looking at a list here. Well, you know
what I think, because if it kind of fits the
same vein we're in that night is there. Let's talk
about Theel Fleury.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That was another deal that was money driven. It was
a money field deal and and Fleury wanted money and
he was going in the Flames worst cast drop and
wasn't gonna happen. And as much as I remember this,
because I mean it was in nineteen ninety nine of
February twenty eighth, and the old Fleury was my favorite player,
And but you know what, when I look back at
(12:37):
it now, probably was the right timing, the right deal.
And really the return for the Flames was really good.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Phenomenal. Yeah, I think it's interesting to me if you
look at her best perspective of like the Avalanche. He
only finished the season there then signed the New York Right, Yes,
and the FLA James in Flurry and Fleury top of
this book, were actually not very far apart in contract docs.
Flury wanted, if I remember correctly, five years at five
(13:09):
point five, and I think the Flames were offering four
or five years at four point five, so a million
dollars apart. Now in the late nineties, that was a
bigger chasm than today.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
That was about four million dollars today, But I mean
it was there.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
It's yeah, like there were the negotiations were relatively close,
but they pulled the trigger. They made the trade. Then unfortunately, uh,
you know, Fleury had a terrible first year in New York.
His second season was quite a lot stronger until he
entered substance abuse program with the NHLPA. But his decline
(13:41):
as a player, and he said this himself, really kind
of began with his exits from Calgary.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
M and that deal was Deel Flury and Chris and
Dingman to Colorado for Renee corbe We Wade Black a
two thousand and second round pick, which ended up being
jured stole and defenseman Robin Gear, who was just a
prospect of the time. And and maybe you'll argue with me,
but I believe ended up being probably one of the
(14:07):
best defensemen in Flame's history.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
There's no he can't argue otherwise. He absolutely was. He
was Robert Gear. Those two thousand and four Cup runs
don't have without the cook up run doesn't have without him,
doesn't have not a chance, not a chance.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And don't get me wrong, I mean, I this this
deal when when Fleury left was was crushing to the
to me and and a lot of the fan base.
I mean, people love to feel flurry in Gullery. And
of course what he did for this organization was amazing.
I mean the energy that he he brought into that
Cup finals and and the years after, and and you know,
(14:44):
it was hard to see him go. But you know
when you look at how his life, the state, and
the demons that he was battling were starting to show through,
and then it just, yeah, it h collapsed after that.
And you feel bad for for the for the player,
for all that he has won through in his life.
But I feel like him leaving left. How do I
(15:09):
say this? I feel like him leaving when he did
left wonderful memories on the ice of him and we
didn't get it tarnished in Calgary. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah? I think so. It was the end of an era.
If not for the emergency, again, it could have been conceived,
it could have been the end of the team. Quite frankly, Yeah,
he was the last piece of that and he didn't
want to go.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I mean no, and he still says it. He's a
Calgary Flame, Like, yeah, he loved his time in Calgary.
Everything I've seen of him after this is he speaks
so highly of everything that happened in Calgary.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
His comeback attempt in two thousand and nine, how exciting
that was, Oh so exciting. I'll never forget that as
long as I live.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
That shootout goal might be in the top twenty Flames
goals of all time. I'm not even joking. Like the
reno it was was crazy.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, and it's such a shame. I mean, and I don't,
you know, thinking back on that team, like you know,
Brent Sutter had his own, uh kind of agenda and
and kind of said, you know, if Flur's not gonna
play the top two lines. He's not gonna play. We
all still can't help, but wonder what, you know, what
would have been? Maybe could he have potted twenty goals
at that age in that condition? Probably? But anyway, you know,
(16:28):
back to the trade though, like that, much like the
Igidland trade, really worked a fantasticity for Calgary.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
M hm.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
So yeah, all right, hit me m tough.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Let's go back to one, that one that brings me
back to just to me and you and I in
our conversation, it's a recent trade and it is still
to be determined as a defining deal, but it was
to me such a mammoth trade that I don't know
how it's not defining in some weight or form for
(17:05):
this organization. And that was the July twenty second, twenty
twenty two trade of Jonathan Huberdo to Calgary where we
dealt Matthew Kachuck to Florida for Jonathan Huberto, McKenzie Wieger,
Cole Schwindt and a first rounder in twenty twenty five. Yeah.
So I know this is recent, and I know we've
(17:25):
had our ups and downs on this deal, but it's giant.
I mean, k Chuck tied the hands of the organization.
That's not fair. Kochuck was open and up front, kind
of tied the hands. It was the first sign and
trade that we ever really saw, and that was an
eight year, seventy six million dollar deally signed with for
a living and then was shipped off to Florida. But
(17:48):
the return for a guy that wasn't coming back to Calgary,
I thought was very very good. And I still, albeit
the Huberto ups and downs and a lot better the
year this year, I still think this was a huge win.
Because we still call this a hubert Oh deal. It's
as much a weaker deal as it is a huberd
od deal.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
You think you're already, it's more so a weaker deal. Wiger
is kind of already earmarked to be the next captain
of the Flames at the yea like at the time,
like when the Stull went down. It probably doesn't happen
at all if the Flames hadn't bridged Kachuk in his
previous contract, which you know they also done with Caudrou
and they had what I would dare say was a
bit of a bad habit of not you know, pushing
(18:29):
all the chips in on their top young players, and
it's a gamble and it could have worked out great
in both cases. It didn't. Now with Kachuk, I remember
being an absolutely. I remember that day so well. I
was I just dropped my girlfriend off of the airport.
I was in bed that night and my buddy Rob
and Calgary sort of blow me up and it's like,
what the hell is even happening? And then I started
reading through them, like, holy hell, this is a massive trade.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I remember. I'm gonna tell you my side of my
where I was. I'll never forget it. I was at
a was at a concert. It was night Ranger was
on stage, and it was an outdoor concert and it
was delayed because of a tornado which we could visibly see,
and so all the people at the concert were on
(19:16):
their phones because of the tornado. And I got a
text from you saying I wish I would have saved
that text. It was something about are you seeing this?
And I was like what, And then my phone just
started going crazy. But it was going crazy and I
couldn't read anything, So like I knew something was going on,
(19:37):
but I couldn't read it. And then you're like the
deal and I'm like, you want to tell me the
deal because I can't get in it because the cell
phones were just jammed. And I remember seeing it when
I got home about eleven o'clock that night, and I
was like, in awe, I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, I wonder I'm actually looking at our conversation because
I don't think I've ever deleted it.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
It was July twenty second, twenty twenty two, and the
deal went down about eight thirty Calgary time.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, I don't think I can get that far back.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
That's a long ways back, Kyle. Come on, how many
text messages we've had since then?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Not as many as I would have thought. But where
are we here? Or back a year already?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Man?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Where does the time four more.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Years to go or three more years ago?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It was.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
It was one of those nights like you know how
you just remember where you were in certain events, and
that was one of them. I just I really remember,
and I remember how happy we were because I mean
the thoughts of getting one hundred and fifteen assists leader
in the in the NHL and a young defenseman and
Mackenzie Wiger and there was high hopes for Cole Schwint
also and then a first round were with it. I'm like,
(20:55):
this is a giant return for a guy that wasn't
coming back to Calgary, right.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Probably the biggest attorney could ever hope to get for
a guy who's not coming back. Think about the other
trades we just talked about. It's like, man, but.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, yeah, why is a fan base that we still
boo who this trade?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Because Chris Chuck's played in three straight Stanley Cup finals
and you know, good chance will win a second Stanley Cup, right, but.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's out of our control and we weren't getting to
get his services any longer.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
No, But there's just that inclination to think that.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Right, I know, I know, it's Uh, it's that whole one.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
F thinking, which we're all guilty of the time. So
you know, I try not to I try not to dwell,
but I do all lots of other stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Was it twenty two or twenty three? That trade?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I thought it was twenty two? Was it? No, it
was twenty twenty two. You sure, I'm gonna type it
into the computer right now.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I bought a Hooper too a shirt in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
You can probably got it in sale.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, that's correct, I did so, You're right, would have
been twenty two. I think I think shirt the time
to be alive.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
That is something. Yeah, it was in July twenty five.
It was well this article.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, you always check your facts.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I should I got it, I got it right. Yeah,
July twenty second, twenty twenty two is the day of
the deal or the night of the deal.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Oh man, you know what I might be able to
find this I'm under a year away now.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Okay, well, let's uh, let's keep talking about the deal
and the fact that, like I still I would, I
still am a little upset that we don't have Cole
Swint anymore. We lost him on waivers this year, him
so much, did I Well, we were we're so we're
so decimated and on centered depth and he was a
bigger body center that I thought I still hadn't lost
hope on him, right, And he had playing time for
(22:48):
Vegas all the way into you know, all the way
through the end of the season. So I don't know,
we'll see what, we'll see what that one ever transpires.
But you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna while you're looking
at that, I'm gonna talk about another personal memory of
a of a deal that went down.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I got back to Generate twenty three. That's as far
as I can.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Go really, so you were close.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, all good, so good.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Another and then I'll let you talk about one here
before we go. But another personal memory of a trade
when it went down. Uh, the day that the Dion
Finoff got traded to Toronto with Oh Man, I know
exactly where I was. I was out too a bunch
of snow and my phone was dinging. I hit my
AirPods in and they were dinging, and I'm just wasn't AirPods.
(23:32):
It was probably just headphones back then. It was in
twenty ten. I didn't have AirPods. Uh, but my phone
was just dinging. And then that there was this deal
and I was out in the snowstorm shoveling. I was
reading the deal. I was just like, I don't know.
At the time, I didn't really know what to do.
All I thought was, oh, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I remember thinking there was some locker room the rest
of the time. I remember Brian Burke saying that he
was with the Leaf saying that you know, the Flames
would make the playoffs after that trade, and I remember thinking,
I don't think they will and stage it had a
really hot start against uh Carolina, I believe.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
But actually one points in fifty five games after that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
So yeah, we should recap what the trade was though
for those.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Schlas Hagman Ian White and Jamal Mayers to Calgary to
Toronto is Dionne Fanough, Frederick Short and Keith Allie.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Okay, Keith Allie was a world junior defenseman for Canada,
was really highly highly regarded. I was actually I remember
now that you say that, I remember being really pissed
he was involved in that trade. Did you ever see
the documentary? I think it was on CBC Bode and White.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
No, I didn't see that one.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Oh heartbreaking the guy fell off a cliff got having
the drugs last and who's playing in the KHL. But
he was not a well man at all.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
And I'm gonna have to look that one up.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And I mean, I don't know anything since then. I
mean I would we certainly don't get too deep into
that kind of stuff on this podcast, but it's hopefully
he turned his life for him and that was that
was a sad situation, very sad situation.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Was he he was only in Calgary for the rest
of that year, right, but was was good. I remember he.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Played the following season. He's actually the one that and
I shouldn't say it like this because it wasn't his fault.
He played the next season and he had broken a
vertebrand Damon Linkou's neck with that slap shot.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Oh yeah, but he was because he was pretty prolific offensively.
He was kind of the the one of the next
to stage and the key piece coming back in that trade.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Right yeah. Because and then he went on under Pittsburgh, right,
I believe he went from here to Detroit.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
He went to Detroit then to Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Man, because he was a lot of places I know that.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Uh did he play bits? I can't remember now.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Let's I thought he played in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Let's see he played in It's funny to think about
this stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, you don't work.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
He played the rest of that season and the next
season in Calgary. They barely played that. He was in Carolina,
San Jose and Detroit.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Never Pittsburgh, huh no no.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And then he went to the K he played his race.
He is twenty three twenty four for Norfolk in the
East Coast Hockey League. That's wild.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah you didn't even hear that would have been like
a comeback story. Yeah, he wasn't ever in Pittsburgh. I
don't know why I thought that. Oh well, that was right,
that was wright. Do you have one more deal?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I've done this before, but I'm going to do it
again because I'm still mad about it. I talked to
somebody about this trade on the weekend. Doo. I forget
who it was, but my contender for worst trade and
Flames history to this day and forever more will be
the trade of Mark si Art to Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Oh yeah, you've talked about this.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
So and maybe we'll squeeze in one more because I
can do this really quickly because it's really so simple.
Mark Sivard was coming off a seventy three point season
in Calgary and I didn't look that up. I'm quite
confident you can look it up yourselves. That's the correct
number of points. I'm really good with numbers. He got
dealt to Atlanta for Roslin Zanealin, who never played in
(26:57):
the NHL one for one. Remember that, like on TSM Litchles,
the trade is one for one. So Savard goes to
Atlanta becomes a star where he was a star player.
Quite frankly, it comes basically a superstar, and even more
so with the Bruins. Shortly thereafter, Zanalin never comes. The
reason they traded Savard was Conroy had clicked with the
(27:19):
Gidlow and Savard was hurt. Savard couldn't get to Greg
Gilbert's doghouse. They traded Savert, then they fired Gilbert. They
get rid of the player and the coach. When the
hell has that ever happened?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
The easy thing nowadays is just get rid of the coach, right.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Well, you do one of the other. Like what that was?
That was tia what do they call him? TSN head
of scouting, Craig Button, And I like Craig Button, don't
get me wrong, But that was That was a rough,
rough trade. And I think he's spoken about it since,
and I'd like to ask him just to say, like,
and hey, hindsight's twenty twenty. I'm sure at the time
he must have thought Zanalin was gonna be something. But man,
(27:54):
what a brutal, brutal trade. And I will say that
you can make the argument it's worse than good, more
trad because at least the Gilboard trade. We got stuff.
We got nothing from Mark Siverd, who was one of
the best centers in the NHL from about two thousand
and four or five to his retirement around twenty eleven
due to injury. So I'll leave it at that. Feel
(28:15):
free to share some thoughts on the thrown onother one
at me.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I will end with a positive before we leave, and
it'll be a quick one. But it was a minor
deal that turned into a giant deal for this and
definitely a defining deal November sixteenth, two thousand and three
to Calgary Mika Kippersoft for a second round pick of
two thousand and five, which ended up being Mark Edward Lassek,
who was a hell of a player.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah. Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Kippersoft was the single reason we went on the four run,
a single reason, yep. And this deal went down because
GM Darryl sutter knew Kippersoft from his days in San
Jose and San Jose I believe, had three or or
(29:00):
really good goalies Vesa Toscoa I believe at the time,
and well who is the bakoff getting the back off also,
and so they had a plethora of goaltenders that were
good and uh he was brought up as a backup
to Roman Turk and ended up.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Uh, you know, it's fun. Actually I talked to Andrew
Ferrence the Roman Turk's name become out ference is still
good buddies with Turk, and I mentioned how Turk Restruction
is contract to stay with the Flames and that's that
the three zero four season, and Farrence actually forgot about
It was a fun chat. So it's really hard to
(29:41):
overstate the importance of that trade. That that's probably the
greatest trade in Flames history, and it's.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Actually a quiet trade.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
It's a testament of how good Kippersoft was because the
fact that Lastik was the piece of went back to
Santa became the piece of back to San Jose, who
was a damn good defenseman, one of the better defensemen
for about ten years, is pretty telling. It actually worked
out pretty and you can remember too where Santase as
you said, had that lot of Yeah, it.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Going good for San Jose because they got the pick
right and then their scouting staff did a hell of
a good job in getting plastic, so they I mean
they had goaltenders. I mean it's not like bes A
Tosco that didn't run off a good string and beginning
to back off also, so San Jose it was a
win win for both organizations, right, it really was.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, tremendously so. And when you consider that San Jose
had those three goaltenders and Tosco in a back off kippersoft. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I do bet though that San Jose was a little
bit hurt when Calgary beat him around three.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Do you imagine that feeling? I mean, put yourself in
the shoes of the Sharks from the guy you traded
in November of that year knocks you out in the
conference finals.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yeah, I kind of forgot about that because you know,
on hindsight, you don't think about that quite so much.
But at the time, yeah, like, man.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's it's crazy. How how you know, Like when I
started thinking about doing this topic and we mean you
discussed it, it's like the biggest deal since we became
co hosts or whatever on this show was is the
is the Hubert oh thing? So that's the biggest deal
since we started working together on this project. But I
mean this this organization has had some big deals, like
(31:24):
some really big deals that have went really good, and
then some that have went really really bad. And I
guess you know what, if we pulled up every other franchise,
we could probably say the same thing.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Sure, we just sta have a tendency to remember the bad,
but we forget about the wonderful ones like the Kippersoft one.
You know, like how well the theo Flurry one turned
out for the flames, how well the Aginla one turned
out for the flames, And so there's there's some good
there too.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I think you know what we talked about, like a
we did an episode obscure Flames, it'd be cool to
do one obscure trades. Yeah, you know, these are kind
of the big ones, but I think, you know, down
the road, we should look at that because I bet
there's some really cool trades we totally forgot about, I'm sure,
And there's some that we know. There's there's some like
(32:10):
the big one from January this year for fairbeing fro Us,
So we can't really judge yet, so we'll have to
revisit that next season as well.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
For sure, wholesome to talk about. And Kynlee and I
enjoy doing this show and we're gonna be doing it
through the whole summer. We appreciate everybody listening. We hope
you enjoy these best special episodes. And Kyle and I
talked about doing these. I mean, I thought they were
going to be fun. I did not realize they'd be
as fun as they have them thus far. I really
enjoyed comment.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
That's been awesome. Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Well I'm so. I keep enjoying your summer. We're back
again next week with another special episode. I'm looking forward
to the next one too, so make sure you check
us out again next week. We enjoy each and every
or anybody that reaches out. We enjoy that too, and
we love your questions and your comments. Check us out
on the web at Flamesinfildberg dot ca A and on
(33:00):
every podcast player, and you can watch us on YouTube. Also,
thanks for listening. Enjoy your summer. We're back next week.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Have a good new post, take care of them.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Thanks for listening to Flames Unfiltered with Brad Burud and
Kyle lewis your source for unfiltered Calgary Flames hockey Talk.
Keep it locked on Flames Unfiltered dot c A subscribe
where you get all your podcasts to never miss an
episode Flames Hockey Talk
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Every week presented by Inside Edge Hockey media group,
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