July 6, 2025 • 31 mins
Flames Tough Guys – Flames Unfiltered – Episode 250
Hosts- Brad Burud @BradBurud and Kyle Lewis @vanlewis14
--- EPISODE 250 ---
SPECIAL EPISODE
In this special edition of "Flames Unfiltered," hosts Brad Burud and Kyle Lewis delve deep into the storied legacy of Calgary Flames' enforcers. The episode, centered around the theme "Flames Tough Guys," explores the memorable and sometimes overlooked roles that tough players have played within the team. The conversation engages hockey enthusiasts with discussions on stage fights, the evolution of tough roles in the NHL, and highlights from the most notorious Flames confrontations. Website: Flames Unfiltered
Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts
Watch: YouTUBE
Social Media – X - @FlameUnfiltered |FACEBOOK – Flames Unfiltered |INSTAGRAM – Flames Unfiltered | TikTok – flames.unfiltered
#NHL #HockeyX #TalkinHockey #HockeyPodcast #Flames #cofred #nhlflames #calgaryflames #YYC #FireItUp
*Produced by Inside Edge Hockey News Media Group
Hosts- Brad Burud @BradBurud and Kyle Lewis @vanlewis14
--- EPISODE 250 ---
SPECIAL EPISODE
In this special edition of "Flames Unfiltered," hosts Brad Burud and Kyle Lewis delve deep into the storied legacy of Calgary Flames' enforcers. The episode, centered around the theme "Flames Tough Guys," explores the memorable and sometimes overlooked roles that tough players have played within the team. The conversation engages hockey enthusiasts with discussions on stage fights, the evolution of tough roles in the NHL, and highlights from the most notorious Flames confrontations. Website: Flames Unfiltered
Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts
Watch: YouTUBE
Social Media – X - @FlameUnfiltered |FACEBOOK – Flames Unfiltered |INSTAGRAM – Flames Unfiltered | TikTok – flames.unfiltered
#NHL #HockeyX #TalkinHockey #HockeyPodcast #Flames #cofred #nhlflames #calgaryflames #YYC #FireItUp
*Produced by Inside Edge Hockey News Media Group
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
There's nothing left to prove, There's nothing I won't do.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
There's nothing like the thin.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hey, Flames fans, welcome to another edition, another special edition
of Flames on felder leear House Kyle Lewis and Brad Burrd.
Today we are doing Flames Tough guys and uh, there's
a lot of them. There's a lot of them.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
There has been some man.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Ye varying degrees. But when you go, you know, when
you start listening them off and thinking about it. I
didn't really realize until we agreed to do this episode
just how many either are.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
I didn't either, And there's some names when I started
doing my looking at this episode that I was like,
didn't think of that guy. Totally didn't think of that
guy either, you know, the guy I think we think
about the most. When you say who's the most I
don't know remembered tough guy for the Calgary Flames. Who
(01:14):
would you say?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Probably Tim Hunter?
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Yeah that's what I thought. Yeah, one hundred and sixty
six fights in Calgary is the penalty minute leader at
two four hundred and five minutes. It's a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, that's crazy, that is absolutely nuts. But in that
same era, very shortly after ope, just said another one.
There's been so many, but it's kind of hard to
categorize because some of them that were also really good
hockey players.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Yeah, you know, like Gary Roberts could drop the gloves,
but also but Jerome McGinley. Yeah, I didn't put them
on my list because as much as they are tough guys, yeah,
like that wasn't their job, right.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, exactly, And that's probably the best fight of de finance,
like they had a job, especially you know during the
eighties and nineties, it was very clearly a job. And
that's the only way these guys are going to take
a shift in the NHL. Oh there's another one actually.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
So yeah, you know, kind well, here's there. Here here
begs the question though, will we ever have another tough guy?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
No, and I mean and and and it's a good
thing because for them to be any kind of tough,
they have to go to play hockey. That's that's the requirement.
And a lot of these guys, I mean, with all
due respect, not you know, nobody mentioned so far necessarily,
but a lot of a lot of guys that played
in the NHL would not be there without their without
their fists and it's another blind too, like you know, uh,
like Matthew Barnaby for example, Barnaby could play the game.
(02:39):
He's extremely agitating, but it was more predicated on his
ability guinners, apportent skin than to be known as a fighter. Right,
he could drop the gloves no problem, but he played
his role. And Sean Avery was similar in that respect,
like it's more than just fighting, it's you know, it's
getting people off their game.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
It's it's funny too because like like those guys you
know were like prolific scorer in junior hockey.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, one hundred percent, and then it just.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Went into that, you know, another another guy like we
can talk a little bit more about Tim Hunter in
a minute, but another guy like I remember through the
through the years, Standy McCarthy was a guy that I
was so nineties. You know, he only had sixty eight
fights with the Flames, but.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Like he brought across two stints though didn't he.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I believe it was two stints. Yeah, but I remember
like the ninety three ninety four year, he had nineteen
fights that year and that was the year that he
kind of stood out as that guy on the team
that you know, was there for his teammates was was
it was was in the mix all the time, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, actually my mistake.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
No.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
He McCarthy played from ninety three ninety four through ninety
seven ninety eight. He didn't never return to Calgary, but
he bounced around a lot. I remember him, you know,
more so with the New York Rangers where he had
two stints at the end of his career. But yeah,
but he, yeah, he was. He was as tough as
anybody that ever ever played for the Flames, for sure.
And another one that comes to mind, and we will
(04:07):
get back to tim Antra because he's the beingal, the
big one. But another one from that same era that
I think of a lot of Sue Grimson, the grim Reaper.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
It was a wild time.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
It's funny when you think about, like how those guys
mentally prepared for that.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Ah.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Do you remember the Fighter read Low?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Oh yeah, very well, Bruin Ranger Lightning.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I believe Saint Louis Blues for the most part. I
mean he was That's where he got his his his start,
but I remember he was. He played junior hockey in
the town I live in, and he's similar in age
to me, maybe a couple of years younger than me.
But I remember one night we were sitting and and
shooting the ship. That's what you did, right, I mean,
(04:53):
And I hung out with most of those guys and
Read and I were talking and he said h something
about being in the NHL, and I laughed him, I'm agreed.
You can't skate, dude, And he just pointed to his
fists and he said, this right here, this is going
to get me to the show. And I don't know, man,
I don't know. And he proved me completely wrong because
(05:17):
he had I don't know how many games he had
in the in the NHL. I can look on my
handy dandy computer here, but I mean, he had a
halfway decent career, and it was just predicated on on
you know, being there and ready to go and and
being able to go up against the proverts and those
guys in the world. And he ended up going on
(05:39):
to play two hundred and fifty six NHL games with
the Blues and just six games with the Blackhawks. That's
that's crazy. He did it on on on, on fighting,
and and and he put a hell of a show
on at a lot of our junior hockey game. And
(06:02):
you know, you look at guys in Calgary and let's
go back. Let's go back to the Battle of our
heydays in the in the mid eighties and and the
Tim Hunter those game, those teams in the eighties, and
the teams that went in the Cup run didn't just
have him, they could fight. I mean, they had Gary Roberts,
(06:22):
they had Joel Otto. Jim Poplinsky was during that time,
and I would consider him a Flames tough guy too,
because he had one hundred and three fights in his
in his days in Calgary, and it's just a totally
totally different era than what we have now.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Right Well, at the time, a lot of the really
good players, you know, apart from guys like Wing Retsky,
of course, they had to be able to fight, if
you know, it was necessary. Doug Gilmore would be another
one for example. Yeah, but now fighting is you don't
need that skill at all. Right, It's less prevalent it's
(07:01):
ever been, although this past season we seemed to have
a fair amount. But to your point about the eighties
oilers and Flames, Mark Spector has a pretty good book
called The Battle of Alberta. It's a little bias towards oilers,
as you would expect from our inspector, But overall it's
a pretty interesting take on an absolute insane ravelly that
I wasn't fortunate to grow up during its heyday. But
having watched the videos and read about it, it's it's
(07:23):
pretty remarkable.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, And you know, you wonder now like we had
a we had a glimpse of it in the previous years.
Here have the Battle of Alberta being back and the
fun that that ensued with the Ka Chuck and Cassie
and ordeals and and things like that. But and then
of course the goalie fight too. I'll never forget that night.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
But Talbot and Smith, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
You know, that's probably what we'll get from now on,
would be those isolated incidents like that. I don't know
that we'll ever have the Battle of Alberta where it's
just mits off like we got in the early eighties.
And I don't know. I mean, maybe that's a good thing,
right I I don't know. I pray though, that we
(08:15):
don't ever lose fighting in hockey. I'm not a big
I guess here's the way I look at it. Fighting
is a part of the game. I hate stage fights.
I hate anything to do with that. But I'll tell
you what if me and you are battling in front
(08:36):
of the net and sticks get up and gloves go off,
that's hockey, right, and I would I would hate to
see that not be part of the game.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, the stage part of it's taken over a large
portion of fighting in hockey, and that's you know, I
share the same kualma that you do. You know, time
and place kind of thing. I don't want to see
fighting in every game. I don't want to see somebody
get hurt in a fight, of course, but it's yeah,
it's it's nothing like he used to be. I mean,
looking at these names and thinking about like who like
the last fighter would have been with Calgary, it's kind
(09:07):
of an interesting discussion. So for the purposes of this,
because you know, we could talk for days about a
lot of these players, I'm just gonna list off a few.
One that just came to mind because of their recent
playoff flop is Craig Barubay and he was at the
center of that that brawl between the Ducks and Flames
in two thousand and one, which if you haven't seen it,
(09:28):
looking up on YouTube.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Is it's wild I forgot all about that.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, it's on there. I had a lot of a
few weeks ago. It is on there. So yeah, Craig
Brubay certainly comes to mind. Kevin Westgarth and Brian mcgratten.
I'll share some thoughts from the other side as a
result of my conversation with Zach Cassion on a future
episode about that night with tort because Cassie was with
the Canucks that night right in terms of what was
(09:53):
going on in the dressing with Tortorella. But so those
two guys, mcgratten and west Garth, we're probably two of
the last ones for sure. Eric as well be remiss
if I didn't mention him. He was a big time
heavy eight. Uh Andre Waugh, who was also in the tournament.
I just played in Christophe Oliva of the two thousand
and four playoff run fame.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
We won't forget him.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
No, the Polish Hammer, and I mean I don't. I
think he just played the one season in cal Gray,
didn't he not even the full season?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I think he was acquired around the deadline and that
was it. We're gonna have to look that up now
because that's gonna drive me crazy then and perfect who else?
There's some defenseman too that were like tough, hard notes
like Robin McGear was an excellent defenseman but very very tough,
(10:40):
Bob Bugner, Denny Gocha, of course, yeah, there's there's.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Christophe Olowa played sixty five games with the Flames, that's
it and forty seven minutes. So you played that one year? Uh,
you're missing a couple that And I don't blame you
for this, but you remember Tim Jackman. Yeah, he threw
down some some good ones in Calgary.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
He had a good season two of like ten or
fifteen goals, just not the one you remember.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Another one that he was a smaller guy but fought
a lot was Ronnie Stern.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yes, yeah, Ronnie Stern was very tough. Darren McCarty. People
forget he played two seasons Calgary.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Willie what's yeah, the eighty eighty season.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Corey Serich, the late great Chris Simon.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
You mentioned something just a second ago, and I wanted
to expand off of it just a little bit. You
said the last Flames tough guy. So who do you
think the last Flames tough guy was?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
M See those those years after eight o nine with
Flames missed the playoffs for those six years. I feel
like it hap and during that time period where they
kind of phased out, And it's hard for me to
pinpoint exactly who it was, but I'm gonna go ahead
and say it was probably Brian mcgratten. God it would
be right there too. And forgive me if if I'm
(12:14):
forgetting somebody, because it is kind of a convoluted something
to point out.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Still to expand on that, like Milan Lucci, you didn't
consider him a fighter.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Oh, he could fight, for sure, and he was tough
as nails, but he was also skilled enough that you know,
he could take your regular shift. He didn't fight every game,
but I mean he fought enough. Yeah, you can definitely
make the ergman of was Lucie, but I'm talking more
of like it pure all they do is fight, not
in that fun presence in the power play, doesn't take
a regular shift.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Probably mcgratten, Yeah, probably the last one.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, what was his last season? And he's actually involved
player development the Flames.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Now, thirteen fourteen, wasn't it. Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I think you're right, and that timeline makes sense to
me because it was right around then that I'm not
sure who the last real tough guy in the league
would have been, but it was kind of a you know,
the guys like Derrick Bouguard, Like there was a in
the two thousands. It was a real resurgence. It feels
like an in tough guys, and then towards you know,
the twenty tens is when it really kind of fizzled out.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Yeah, and now, yeah, I mean I when I look
around the league right now, I don't. I mean, yo,
Tom Wilson tough his nails, but look at what he
puts up for points. I mean wild, that's the things.
I mean, that's what we're gonna see right now, and
that's what we're gonna see from now on is like
right now, depth, depth, wins and you can't have that
(13:37):
guy on your roster that just doesn't doesn't get any
any minutes other than to go out there and fight.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So yeah, and actually, but Gratton played eight games in
fourteen fifteen with the Flames, so I really think he's
the last one you would classify as as a true
tough guy only kind of thing. Interesting, what a list
of names.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
I remember Chris Simon, I know you mentioned him earlier too,
He was another one of those guys that would go
out and battle and he you know, I just I
remember him from some of those key years too as
as a as a player that was out. They're doing that,
you know, doing that tough stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Oh yeah, we don't get nearly, we don't. We don't
get to the Cup finals without him A four. He
was a huge, huge part of that team.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
You know, we forget that when you look at the
old four. I mean we had Ola Wa and Simon,
Yeah yeah, and we had you know, and you know.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
That was a really tough team. Billy Nemanan driving pretty crazy.
I love Dave, Dave Lowry, he could freaking he could
hit two.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
That was a that was a physical, tough, tough team.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah yeah, it's uh, it's pretty wild man to go
through some of these names, like and people that you
just all respecting me kind of forgetting Like under Off,
for example, just played the one season at Calgary, but
a really really tough guy.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
All time penalty minutes leaders for the Flames. Tim Hunter
leads that by a mile over Gary Roberts and then
Joel Otto's up there and that's that's another guy that
could throw the fifth Jim Pilplinsky, Theo Fleury's fifth, Ronnie
stern Is sixth, Willie Platt is seventh, Al mckinness eight,
Suitor nine and again La ten. I should we should
(15:28):
look up how many fights Agaimla had he had. Probably
when you think about okay, when you think about you know,
you mentioned the one Anaheim Ducks situation, what is the
most I mean you think about historical fights in Flames history, Yeah,
I mean the again La Cavier fight, is is it right? Yep?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Absolutely, there's the nothing else can touch that.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
The Ka Chuck Cassian fight. Although Kachuck didn't early fight,
I guess I don't even know. I wouldn't guess. I
couldn't put that on a list because there wasn't really
a fight there. Well, you know, take that back, there
was a fight. It came later though. That wasn't the
fight though.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I know, but I have I have to show that.
So Cassie and signed this for us as too funny,
like what a great pitcher it is.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I but they did, and Kachuck did stand up and
did fight him, So that'll be one that we will
always remember. We'll always remember the Smith, the Smith Talbot
one we just talked.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
About on ahnd Nugent Hopkins.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Oh I remember that now that you say that, Holy crap,
that was one of those we never thought we'd see, right, Oh,
not a chance.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
And for the record, again, what had seventy two career fights.
It's quite a few.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
That's a lot. I mean when you think about it. Okay,
he's seventy two. That's probably not just in Calgary, but
I mean when you look at you know, Sandy McCarthy
had sixty eight with the Flames.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, well when you think about it again, the in Colorado,
of Boston, Pittsburgh and l A. Yeah, I'm sure he
had fifty plus fights as a flame. He had to have.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
He had to have had.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Those are those are the key years, right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
So who was your favorite of those tough guys? It
doesn't have to be like Tim Harker because he was
really impactful, like you know, and it made me a
more obscure one that really, you know, clicked.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
With you, like, boy, that's tough.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, no pun intended, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
No kidding. I mean, if you considered Gary Roberts a
tough guy, that's my favorite. But I don't consider him
a tough guy. I when I when I look at
pure fighter guys. I don't know Tim Jackman maybe.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Yeah, Jackman was good. I'm gonna go off the board
wildly here as a probably the most popular Saint John
flame of all time, Rocky Thompson.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
How many we talkked about him before on the show.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I think he's he's still with the Florida organization. I'm mistaken.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
How did he not make our obscure Flames favorites?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Because yeah, he was just so here and gone?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Kind of Yeah? How long did you playing? Call? How
many games? I can look that up here.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
It's actually from Calgary. I didn't know that. Uh, he
was assistant coach with the Oilers. He was head coach
of Chicago Wolves. He was with the Flyers most recently,
but he was in Calgary.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
He played fifteen games. Yeah, holy two stints. Fifteen games.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
He was well six sixty one penalty minutes and twelve
games and twenty five penla minutes and three games the
following season. Oh boy, so in twenty seven games in
Saint John in eight ninety ninety one hundred and eight
ninety nine, two thousand had one hundred and twenty five
and only fifty three games like this, guy's just so.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
See. So, is it tell you something about the Flames
draft history. He was a third round pick. Yeah, the
Flames drafting in the nineties could be a show of
on of its own.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Well, that's going to be a show where we drink
the entire time, that's for sure. And you can't say
much about the two thousands either. No, you're really no.
We never this team never started drafting well until about
twenty thirteen, fourteen, you know, from like nineteen ninety on wards.
It's unbelievable to think about.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
So who is your favorite?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Uh, yeah, that's a tough one too. I did really
like Craig Barube. It's a flame. He wasn't there long,
but he he was really really tough. Yeah, I'd say
go with him.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
One of the things that's that's difficult when you're talking
about tough guys and then we bring the question up
about like who is your favorite, It's it's difficult because
tough guys shuffle around so much. Like, yeah, you look
at this list. All of them had got Flames careers.
Outside of Hunter, who played eleven years, all of them
were short were short lived, right, And it's tough to have.
(20:12):
It's tough to build a favorite when they're there for
two years or one year or you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Well, that was kind of unique to the Flames too,
and some other teams as well. But I mean, God's
like Brod Probert, you know, playing in Chicago so long
like that kind of went by the wayside. And Hunters
a good example too, when of the last guys are
really stick around for a long time. And I think
it's just a nature of teams feeling they need to
get tougher and trying to acquire these guys. Yeah, I
(20:39):
mean they always it's like, yeah, we need to go
and get this guy. Well, at the time, I don't
want to say there were a Diamond dozen because I
kind of undervised what they did at a time when
that was an important part of the game. But there
was a lot of them around, right, yep, there was.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
And you know another thing too is they were a
cheap price tag too.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Right, Oh, yeah for sure. But even like you know,
like Tido me like in Winnipeg and in Toronto, I know,
you know, super super tough player, but he had some
pretty lengthy stints, which was by that point especially was
not common. Right, These guys bounced around a lot. It
was one or two seasons. And and that's what made
their job so tough, is that, I think above any
other role, they had to, like what you said, a
(21:15):
red low, had to really fight, you know, for their
meal ticket. And it was never a long term relationship, right.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Which is which is really I mean, I mean it
was the career path that probably allowed them to play
in the National Hockey League for sure. You know, think
about the physical abuse, but think about the mental abuse.
And I watched numerous documentaries on different things with Flames
tough guys are not Flames tough guys with with NHL
(21:45):
tough guys, And like the thought process a game Bay
thought process for them had to be mentally challenging.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Oh and a lot of them to talk to about it.
And then the way the coaches would treat them. And
I mean, you know, Scott Parker's been pretty outspoken about
it with his in Colorado under Bob Hartley, you know.
And then you can get into the truth of those
things or or leave them be. But the rally is
a lot of coaches, that's what they were. That's the
way the game was, right, they rode their tough guys
into the ground and a lot of them have expressed
(22:15):
they were you know, they didn't care they fight if
they had to fight. Other guys were terrified of fighting,
even though you would never know that when you saw
them on the ice. Yeah, it's it's it's pretty unbelievable
and unfortunately, like a lot of them are no longer
with us because of that lifestyle. One of whom we
should we should really mention as well, who now that
I think it was actually one of my favorites as
(22:35):
well as Wade b. Lack, the one of the more
forgotten pieces in the robiner gear theo Flury trade.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Yeah, he was a tough, tough man and he was
a he was a really good friend of Michael Landsberg
and off the record on TSN, you know, due to
their respect the mental health challenges and he kind of
became a champion for that that cause up until the
time he passed a few years ago.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Yeah, he was a forgotten piece of that of that deal.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah. Yeah, I played some I spent some time in
Toronto as well, where you know a lot of people
remember from that time as well. But these guys, I
mean again, like it's it was the most I wouldn't
say it was the most thankless job, but I think
it was the most difficult job in hockey because the
only way these guys were gonna make it was, you know,
based on their their knuckles, right.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Yeah, you know, I think it'd be fun to talk
to some other players, Like it'd be fun to talk
and get the perspective of on what some of the
superstars of the league thought of the tough guys and
and how how important they thought they were, because I
would venture to to bet that some of the elite
players in the league lived and died for their for
(23:44):
the tough guys, and and we're super thankful for for
what the protection they gave them, right, because we're talking
about a totally different era in the eighties where if
you had a star, you had to have a tough guy.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Or if like the case the Oilers, you had several
to protect. I mean, so you had a very very
tough player, Mark Messi, and then you had Dave Brown, Samenko, McSorley,
like he was surrounded by toughness. And you know, it's
funny to think McDavid does so much now just imagine
if anybody tried to throw hit on him in that
era had he played.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Yeah, it's funny too though when you look at the
stars of the eighties compared to the stars and nowadays,
like McDavid is a big guy compared to speaking to
like Gretzky and stuff. So it's funny how the size
of the league has changed, right, and the speed of
the league has changed.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
And oh it's great, especially the speed element. I mean,
a lot of these guys used to have beers in
the dressing room, smoke cigarettes like Nikolai Habibulin as you
like the recall being a fan of his with pound
cigarettes and coffee between periods. I mean, these guys are
such well conditioned athletes now, you know, in the seventies
and part of the eighties are all rock and dad bods.
So it's pretty unbelievable to think about it.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Is it is? All right? Well, thanks for joining Kyle
and I on another special episode. It was fun talking
about the tough guys and giving him the thanks that
they probably deserved through that era. That was, Uh, that's
that's some tough hockey and some tough careers for for
these guys. And uh, the Flames, uh had a number
(25:18):
of tough guys that that we have not forgotten, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
We're not likely to. And I mean, I'm sure there's
some names that I left off this list that now
there's you know, feel free to post that tweet us
and tell us who the word why you like them,
because there's spin. Like I said, there's a lot. Just
making a quick list, I'm like, oh man, I forgot
about half these guys. It's crazy.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Yeah, with the start careers like that, it's uh yeah,
we go through We went through a lot of them
and yeah, it's it's tough. So yeah, please fire us out.
We always like input from the listeners. We're hoping you're
enjoying this last season and enjoying the summer and uh yeah,
we're back every week talking Flames hockey. Enjoy your summer
and we'll see your next week. Play plain trap.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
That's thanks for listening to Flames Unfiltered with Brad Burud
(26:34):
and Kyle Lewis your source for unfiltered Calgary Flames hockey talk.
Keep it locked on Flames Unfiltered dot c, a subscribe
where you get all your podcasts to never miss an episode.
Flames Hockey Talk every week presented by Inside Edge Hockey Media.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
Group h.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I crawl out.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
From the vein of yesterday.
Speaker 6 (27:44):
I crawled to you and I said all the things
that you said to say.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Have I said enough to your lagging?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Do your lagging?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeay?
Speaker 6 (27:59):
LT know you can play these dirty games, the killing me,
and I know that you love to watch me beg.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
So here I am. Do you like it? Yay?
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Do you like it?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I don't want to be the love it.
Speaker 6 (28:20):
I don't want that, but.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
The hand is being.
Speaker 6 (28:23):
I don't want to be a circle for you.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Oh yes, you.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Hate myself for begg, hate myself for stealing.
Speaker 7 (28:35):
I hate myself for this thing too.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
It's still little too late and I can't escape.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
So I'm begging you please I change all the things
that you told me to change.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
No a moment.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I don't want the probit for you. I don't want to,
but I handless beating.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
I don't want to be a sucker for you.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I guess I sat myself for bakake. I hate myself
for stay. I hate myself for this thing. So I
just want to get out. Stop inside of this waiting
for somethinger.
Speaker 7 (29:31):
Waiting to excess. Cap help you, love mist promiss.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
To you, to you.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
To I tell one of me a pop it for you.
Don't wanna what the head is, Madam.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I don't one of you a.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
Job for you.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yes, you're.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I hate myself for great Ja. I hate myself for staking.
I hate myself for this thing too.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Ja from this statue Je.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Listening to Jo for listening to
There's nothing left to prove, There's nothing I won't do.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
There's nothing like the thin.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hey, Flames fans, welcome to another edition, another special edition
of Flames on felder leear House Kyle Lewis and Brad Burrd.
Today we are doing Flames Tough guys and uh, there's
a lot of them. There's a lot of them.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
There has been some man.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Ye varying degrees. But when you go, you know, when
you start listening them off and thinking about it. I
didn't really realize until we agreed to do this episode
just how many either are.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
I didn't either, And there's some names when I started
doing my looking at this episode that I was like,
didn't think of that guy. Totally didn't think of that
guy either, you know, the guy I think we think
about the most. When you say who's the most I
don't know remembered tough guy for the Calgary Flames. Who
(01:14):
would you say?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Probably Tim Hunter?
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Yeah that's what I thought. Yeah, one hundred and sixty
six fights in Calgary is the penalty minute leader at
two four hundred and five minutes. It's a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, that's crazy, that is absolutely nuts. But in that
same era, very shortly after ope, just said another one.
There's been so many, but it's kind of hard to
categorize because some of them that were also really good
hockey players.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Yeah, you know, like Gary Roberts could drop the gloves,
but also but Jerome McGinley. Yeah, I didn't put them
on my list because as much as they are tough guys, yeah,
like that wasn't their job, right.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, exactly, And that's probably the best fight of de finance,
like they had a job, especially you know during the
eighties and nineties, it was very clearly a job. And
that's the only way these guys are going to take
a shift in the NHL. Oh there's another one actually.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
So yeah, you know, kind well, here's there. Here here
begs the question though, will we ever have another tough guy?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
No, and I mean and and and it's a good
thing because for them to be any kind of tough,
they have to go to play hockey. That's that's the requirement.
And a lot of these guys, I mean, with all
due respect, not you know, nobody mentioned so far necessarily,
but a lot of a lot of guys that played
in the NHL would not be there without their without
their fists and it's another blind too, like you know, uh,
like Matthew Barnaby for example, Barnaby could play the game.
(02:39):
He's extremely agitating, but it was more predicated on his
ability guinners, apportent skin than to be known as a fighter. Right,
he could drop the gloves no problem, but he played
his role. And Sean Avery was similar in that respect,
like it's more than just fighting, it's you know, it's
getting people off their game.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
It's it's funny too because like like those guys you
know were like prolific scorer in junior hockey.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, one hundred percent, and then it just.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Went into that, you know, another another guy like we
can talk a little bit more about Tim Hunter in
a minute, but another guy like I remember through the
through the years, Standy McCarthy was a guy that I
was so nineties. You know, he only had sixty eight
fights with the Flames, but.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Like he brought across two stints though didn't he.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I believe it was two stints. Yeah, but I remember
like the ninety three ninety four year, he had nineteen
fights that year and that was the year that he
kind of stood out as that guy on the team
that you know, was there for his teammates was was
it was was in the mix all the time, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, actually my mistake.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
No.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
He McCarthy played from ninety three ninety four through ninety
seven ninety eight. He didn't never return to Calgary, but
he bounced around a lot. I remember him, you know,
more so with the New York Rangers where he had
two stints at the end of his career. But yeah,
but he, yeah, he was. He was as tough as
anybody that ever ever played for the Flames, for sure.
And another one that comes to mind, and we will
(04:07):
get back to tim Antra because he's the beingal, the
big one. But another one from that same era that
I think of a lot of Sue Grimson, the grim Reaper.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
It was a wild time.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
It's funny when you think about, like how those guys
mentally prepared for that.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Ah.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Do you remember the Fighter read Low?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Oh yeah, very well, Bruin Ranger Lightning.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I believe Saint Louis Blues for the most part. I
mean he was That's where he got his his his start,
but I remember he was. He played junior hockey in
the town I live in, and he's similar in age
to me, maybe a couple of years younger than me.
But I remember one night we were sitting and and
shooting the ship. That's what you did, right, I mean,
(04:53):
And I hung out with most of those guys and
Read and I were talking and he said h something
about being in the NHL, and I laughed him, I'm agreed.
You can't skate, dude, And he just pointed to his
fists and he said, this right here, this is going
to get me to the show. And I don't know, man,
I don't know. And he proved me completely wrong because
(05:17):
he had I don't know how many games he had
in the in the NHL. I can look on my
handy dandy computer here, but I mean, he had a
halfway decent career, and it was just predicated on on
you know, being there and ready to go and and
being able to go up against the proverts and those
guys in the world. And he ended up going on
(05:39):
to play two hundred and fifty six NHL games with
the Blues and just six games with the Blackhawks. That's
that's crazy. He did it on on on, on fighting,
and and and he put a hell of a show
on at a lot of our junior hockey game. And
(06:02):
you know, you look at guys in Calgary and let's
go back. Let's go back to the Battle of our
heydays in the in the mid eighties and and the
Tim Hunter those game, those teams in the eighties, and
the teams that went in the Cup run didn't just
have him, they could fight. I mean, they had Gary Roberts,
(06:22):
they had Joel Otto. Jim Poplinsky was during that time,
and I would consider him a Flames tough guy too,
because he had one hundred and three fights in his
in his days in Calgary, and it's just a totally
totally different era than what we have now.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Right Well, at the time, a lot of the really
good players, you know, apart from guys like Wing Retsky,
of course, they had to be able to fight, if
you know, it was necessary. Doug Gilmore would be another
one for example. Yeah, but now fighting is you don't
need that skill at all. Right, It's less prevalent it's
(07:01):
ever been, although this past season we seemed to have
a fair amount. But to your point about the eighties
oilers and Flames, Mark Spector has a pretty good book
called The Battle of Alberta. It's a little bias towards oilers,
as you would expect from our inspector, But overall it's
a pretty interesting take on an absolute insane ravelly that
I wasn't fortunate to grow up during its heyday. But
having watched the videos and read about it, it's it's
(07:23):
pretty remarkable.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, And you know, you wonder now like we had
a we had a glimpse of it in the previous years.
Here have the Battle of Alberta being back and the
fun that that ensued with the Ka Chuck and Cassie
and ordeals and and things like that. But and then
of course the goalie fight too. I'll never forget that night.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
But Talbot and Smith, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
You know, that's probably what we'll get from now on,
would be those isolated incidents like that. I don't know
that we'll ever have the Battle of Alberta where it's
just mits off like we got in the early eighties.
And I don't know. I mean, maybe that's a good thing,
right I I don't know. I pray though, that we
(08:15):
don't ever lose fighting in hockey. I'm not a big
I guess here's the way I look at it. Fighting
is a part of the game. I hate stage fights.
I hate anything to do with that. But I'll tell
you what if me and you are battling in front
(08:36):
of the net and sticks get up and gloves go off,
that's hockey, right, and I would I would hate to
see that not be part of the game.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, the stage part of it's taken over a large
portion of fighting in hockey, and that's you know, I
share the same kualma that you do. You know, time
and place kind of thing. I don't want to see
fighting in every game. I don't want to see somebody
get hurt in a fight, of course, but it's yeah,
it's it's nothing like he used to be. I mean,
looking at these names and thinking about like who like
the last fighter would have been with Calgary, it's kind
(09:07):
of an interesting discussion. So for the purposes of this,
because you know, we could talk for days about a
lot of these players, I'm just gonna list off a few.
One that just came to mind because of their recent
playoff flop is Craig Barubay and he was at the
center of that that brawl between the Ducks and Flames
in two thousand and one, which if you haven't seen it,
(09:28):
looking up on YouTube.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Is it's wild I forgot all about that.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, it's on there. I had a lot of a
few weeks ago. It is on there. So yeah, Craig
Brubay certainly comes to mind. Kevin Westgarth and Brian mcgratten.
I'll share some thoughts from the other side as a
result of my conversation with Zach Cassion on a future
episode about that night with tort because Cassie was with
the Canucks that night right in terms of what was
(09:53):
going on in the dressing with Tortorella. But so those
two guys, mcgratten and west Garth, we're probably two of
the last ones for sure. Eric as well be remiss
if I didn't mention him. He was a big time
heavy eight. Uh Andre Waugh, who was also in the tournament.
I just played in Christophe Oliva of the two thousand
and four playoff run fame.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
We won't forget him.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
No, the Polish Hammer, and I mean I don't. I
think he just played the one season in cal Gray,
didn't he not even the full season?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I think he was acquired around the deadline and that
was it. We're gonna have to look that up now
because that's gonna drive me crazy then and perfect who else?
There's some defenseman too that were like tough, hard notes
like Robin McGear was an excellent defenseman but very very tough,
(10:40):
Bob Bugner, Denny Gocha, of course, yeah, there's there's.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Christophe Olowa played sixty five games with the Flames, that's
it and forty seven minutes. So you played that one year? Uh,
you're missing a couple that And I don't blame you
for this, but you remember Tim Jackman. Yeah, he threw
down some some good ones in Calgary.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
He had a good season two of like ten or
fifteen goals, just not the one you remember.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Another one that he was a smaller guy but fought
a lot was Ronnie Stern.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yes, yeah, Ronnie Stern was very tough. Darren McCarty. People
forget he played two seasons Calgary.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Willie what's yeah, the eighty eighty season.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Corey Serich, the late great Chris Simon.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
You mentioned something just a second ago, and I wanted
to expand off of it just a little bit. You
said the last Flames tough guy. So who do you
think the last Flames tough guy was?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
M See those those years after eight o nine with
Flames missed the playoffs for those six years. I feel
like it hap and during that time period where they
kind of phased out, And it's hard for me to
pinpoint exactly who it was, but I'm gonna go ahead
and say it was probably Brian mcgratten. God it would
be right there too. And forgive me if if I'm
(12:14):
forgetting somebody, because it is kind of a convoluted something
to point out.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Still to expand on that, like Milan Lucci, you didn't
consider him a fighter.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Oh, he could fight, for sure, and he was tough
as nails, but he was also skilled enough that you know,
he could take your regular shift. He didn't fight every game,
but I mean he fought enough. Yeah, you can definitely
make the ergman of was Lucie, but I'm talking more
of like it pure all they do is fight, not
in that fun presence in the power play, doesn't take
a regular shift.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Probably mcgratten, Yeah, probably the last one.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, what was his last season? And he's actually involved
player development the Flames.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Now, thirteen fourteen, wasn't it. Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I think you're right, and that timeline makes sense to
me because it was right around then that I'm not
sure who the last real tough guy in the league
would have been, but it was kind of a you know,
the guys like Derrick Bouguard, Like there was a in
the two thousands. It was a real resurgence. It feels
like an in tough guys, and then towards you know,
the twenty tens is when it really kind of fizzled out.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Yeah, and now, yeah, I mean I when I look
around the league right now, I don't. I mean, yo,
Tom Wilson tough his nails, but look at what he
puts up for points. I mean wild, that's the things.
I mean, that's what we're gonna see right now, and
that's what we're gonna see from now on is like
right now, depth, depth, wins and you can't have that
(13:37):
guy on your roster that just doesn't doesn't get any
any minutes other than to go out there and fight.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So yeah, and actually, but Gratton played eight games in
fourteen fifteen with the Flames, so I really think he's
the last one you would classify as as a true
tough guy only kind of thing. Interesting, what a list
of names.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
I remember Chris Simon, I know you mentioned him earlier too,
He was another one of those guys that would go
out and battle and he you know, I just I
remember him from some of those key years too as
as a as a player that was out. They're doing that,
you know, doing that tough stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Oh yeah, we don't get nearly, we don't. We don't
get to the Cup finals without him A four. He
was a huge, huge part of that team.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
You know, we forget that when you look at the
old four. I mean we had Ola Wa and Simon,
Yeah yeah, and we had you know, and you know.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
That was a really tough team. Billy Nemanan driving pretty crazy.
I love Dave, Dave Lowry, he could freaking he could
hit two.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
That was a that was a physical, tough, tough team.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah yeah, it's uh, it's pretty wild man to go
through some of these names, like and people that you
just all respecting me kind of forgetting Like under Off,
for example, just played the one season at Calgary, but
a really really tough guy.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
All time penalty minutes leaders for the Flames. Tim Hunter
leads that by a mile over Gary Roberts and then
Joel Otto's up there and that's that's another guy that
could throw the fifth Jim Pilplinsky, Theo Fleury's fifth, Ronnie
stern Is sixth, Willie Platt is seventh, Al mckinness eight,
Suitor nine and again La ten. I should we should
(15:28):
look up how many fights Agaimla had he had. Probably
when you think about okay, when you think about you know,
you mentioned the one Anaheim Ducks situation, what is the
most I mean you think about historical fights in Flames history, Yeah,
I mean the again La Cavier fight, is is it right? Yep?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Absolutely, there's the nothing else can touch that.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
The Ka Chuck Cassian fight. Although Kachuck didn't early fight,
I guess I don't even know. I wouldn't guess. I
couldn't put that on a list because there wasn't really
a fight there. Well, you know, take that back, there
was a fight. It came later though. That wasn't the
fight though.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I know, but I have I have to show that.
So Cassie and signed this for us as too funny,
like what a great pitcher it is.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I but they did, and Kachuck did stand up and
did fight him, So that'll be one that we will
always remember. We'll always remember the Smith, the Smith Talbot
one we just talked.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
About on ahnd Nugent Hopkins.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Oh I remember that now that you say that, Holy crap,
that was one of those we never thought we'd see, right, Oh,
not a chance.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
And for the record, again, what had seventy two career fights.
It's quite a few.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
That's a lot. I mean when you think about it. Okay,
he's seventy two. That's probably not just in Calgary, but
I mean when you look at you know, Sandy McCarthy
had sixty eight with the Flames.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, well when you think about it again, the in Colorado,
of Boston, Pittsburgh and l A. Yeah, I'm sure he
had fifty plus fights as a flame. He had to have.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
He had to have had.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Those are those are the key years, right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
So who was your favorite of those tough guys? It
doesn't have to be like Tim Harker because he was
really impactful, like you know, and it made me a
more obscure one that really, you know, clicked.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
With you, like, boy, that's tough.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, no pun intended, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
No kidding. I mean, if you considered Gary Roberts a
tough guy, that's my favorite. But I don't consider him
a tough guy. I when I when I look at
pure fighter guys. I don't know Tim Jackman maybe.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Yeah, Jackman was good. I'm gonna go off the board
wildly here as a probably the most popular Saint John
flame of all time, Rocky Thompson.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
How many we talkked about him before on the show.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I think he's he's still with the Florida organization. I'm mistaken.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
How did he not make our obscure Flames favorites?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Because yeah, he was just so here and gone?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Kind of Yeah? How long did you playing? Call? How
many games? I can look that up here.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
It's actually from Calgary. I didn't know that. Uh, he
was assistant coach with the Oilers. He was head coach
of Chicago Wolves. He was with the Flyers most recently,
but he was in Calgary.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
He played fifteen games. Yeah, holy two stints. Fifteen games.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
He was well six sixty one penalty minutes and twelve
games and twenty five penla minutes and three games the
following season. Oh boy, so in twenty seven games in
Saint John in eight ninety ninety one hundred and eight
ninety nine, two thousand had one hundred and twenty five
and only fifty three games like this, guy's just so.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
See. So, is it tell you something about the Flames
draft history. He was a third round pick. Yeah, the
Flames drafting in the nineties could be a show of
on of its own.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Well, that's going to be a show where we drink
the entire time, that's for sure. And you can't say
much about the two thousands either. No, you're really no.
We never this team never started drafting well until about
twenty thirteen, fourteen, you know, from like nineteen ninety on wards.
It's unbelievable to think about.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
So who is your favorite?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Uh, yeah, that's a tough one too. I did really
like Craig Barube. It's a flame. He wasn't there long,
but he he was really really tough. Yeah, I'd say
go with him.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
One of the things that's that's difficult when you're talking
about tough guys and then we bring the question up
about like who is your favorite, It's it's difficult because
tough guys shuffle around so much. Like, yeah, you look
at this list. All of them had got Flames careers.
Outside of Hunter, who played eleven years, all of them
were short were short lived, right, And it's tough to have.
(20:12):
It's tough to build a favorite when they're there for
two years or one year or you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Well, that was kind of unique to the Flames too,
and some other teams as well. But I mean, God's
like Brod Probert, you know, playing in Chicago so long
like that kind of went by the wayside. And Hunters
a good example too, when of the last guys are
really stick around for a long time. And I think
it's just a nature of teams feeling they need to
get tougher and trying to acquire these guys. Yeah, I
(20:39):
mean they always it's like, yeah, we need to go
and get this guy. Well, at the time, I don't
want to say there were a Diamond dozen because I
kind of undervised what they did at a time when
that was an important part of the game. But there
was a lot of them around, right, yep, there was.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
And you know another thing too is they were a
cheap price tag too.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Right, Oh, yeah for sure. But even like you know,
like Tido me like in Winnipeg and in Toronto, I know,
you know, super super tough player, but he had some
pretty lengthy stints, which was by that point especially was
not common. Right, These guys bounced around a lot. It
was one or two seasons. And and that's what made
their job so tough, is that, I think above any
other role, they had to, like what you said, a
(21:15):
red low, had to really fight, you know, for their
meal ticket. And it was never a long term relationship, right.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Which is which is really I mean, I mean it
was the career path that probably allowed them to play
in the National Hockey League for sure. You know, think
about the physical abuse, but think about the mental abuse.
And I watched numerous documentaries on different things with Flames
tough guys are not Flames tough guys with with NHL
(21:45):
tough guys, And like the thought process a game Bay
thought process for them had to be mentally challenging.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Oh and a lot of them to talk to about it.
And then the way the coaches would treat them. And
I mean, you know, Scott Parker's been pretty outspoken about
it with his in Colorado under Bob Hartley, you know.
And then you can get into the truth of those
things or or leave them be. But the rally is
a lot of coaches, that's what they were. That's the
way the game was, right, they rode their tough guys
into the ground and a lot of them have expressed
(22:15):
they were you know, they didn't care they fight if
they had to fight. Other guys were terrified of fighting,
even though you would never know that when you saw
them on the ice. Yeah, it's it's it's pretty unbelievable
and unfortunately, like a lot of them are no longer
with us because of that lifestyle. One of whom we
should we should really mention as well, who now that
I think it was actually one of my favorites as
(22:35):
well as Wade b. Lack, the one of the more
forgotten pieces in the robiner gear theo Flury trade.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Yeah, he was a tough, tough man and he was
a he was a really good friend of Michael Landsberg
and off the record on TSN, you know, due to
their respect the mental health challenges and he kind of
became a champion for that that cause up until the
time he passed a few years ago.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Yeah, he was a forgotten piece of that of that deal.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah. Yeah, I played some I spent some time in
Toronto as well, where you know a lot of people
remember from that time as well. But these guys, I
mean again, like it's it was the most I wouldn't
say it was the most thankless job, but I think
it was the most difficult job in hockey because the
only way these guys were gonna make it was, you know,
based on their their knuckles, right.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Yeah, you know, I think it'd be fun to talk
to some other players, Like it'd be fun to talk
and get the perspective of on what some of the
superstars of the league thought of the tough guys and
and how how important they thought they were, because I
would venture to to bet that some of the elite
players in the league lived and died for their for
(23:44):
the tough guys, and and we're super thankful for for
what the protection they gave them, right, because we're talking
about a totally different era in the eighties where if
you had a star, you had to have a tough guy.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Or if like the case the Oilers, you had several
to protect. I mean, so you had a very very
tough player, Mark Messi, and then you had Dave Brown, Samenko, McSorley,
like he was surrounded by toughness. And you know, it's
funny to think McDavid does so much now just imagine
if anybody tried to throw hit on him in that
era had he played.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Yeah, it's funny too though when you look at the
stars of the eighties compared to the stars and nowadays,
like McDavid is a big guy compared to speaking to
like Gretzky and stuff. So it's funny how the size
of the league has changed, right, and the speed of
the league has changed.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
And oh it's great, especially the speed element. I mean,
a lot of these guys used to have beers in
the dressing room, smoke cigarettes like Nikolai Habibulin as you
like the recall being a fan of his with pound
cigarettes and coffee between periods. I mean, these guys are
such well conditioned athletes now, you know, in the seventies
and part of the eighties are all rock and dad bods.
So it's pretty unbelievable to think about it.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Is it is? All right? Well, thanks for joining Kyle
and I on another special episode. It was fun talking
about the tough guys and giving him the thanks that
they probably deserved through that era. That was, Uh, that's
that's some tough hockey and some tough careers for for
these guys. And uh, the Flames, uh had a number
(25:18):
of tough guys that that we have not forgotten, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
We're not likely to. And I mean, I'm sure there's
some names that I left off this list that now
there's you know, feel free to post that tweet us
and tell us who the word why you like them,
because there's spin. Like I said, there's a lot. Just
making a quick list, I'm like, oh man, I forgot
about half these guys. It's crazy.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Yeah, with the start careers like that, it's uh yeah,
we go through We went through a lot of them
and yeah, it's it's tough. So yeah, please fire us out.
We always like input from the listeners. We're hoping you're
enjoying this last season and enjoying the summer and uh yeah,
we're back every week talking Flames hockey. Enjoy your summer
and we'll see your next week. Play plain trap.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
That's thanks for listening to Flames Unfiltered with Brad Burud
(26:34):
and Kyle Lewis your source for unfiltered Calgary Flames hockey talk.
Keep it locked on Flames Unfiltered dot c, a subscribe
where you get all your podcasts to never miss an episode.
Flames Hockey Talk every week presented by Inside Edge Hockey Media.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
Group h.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I crawl out.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
From the vein of yesterday.
Speaker 6 (27:44):
I crawled to you and I said all the things
that you said to say.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Have I said enough to your lagging?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Do your lagging?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeay?
Speaker 6 (27:59):
LT know you can play these dirty games, the killing me,
and I know that you love to watch me beg.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
So here I am. Do you like it? Yay?
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Do you like it?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I don't want to be the love it.
Speaker 6 (28:20):
I don't want that, but.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
The hand is being.
Speaker 6 (28:23):
I don't want to be a circle for you.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Oh yes, you.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Hate myself for begg, hate myself for stealing.
Speaker 7 (28:35):
I hate myself for this thing too.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
It's still little too late and I can't escape.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
So I'm begging you please I change all the things
that you told me to change.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
No a moment.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I don't want the probit for you. I don't want to,
but I handless beating.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
I don't want to be a sucker for you.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I guess I sat myself for bakake. I hate myself
for stay. I hate myself for this thing. So I
just want to get out. Stop inside of this waiting
for somethinger.
Speaker 7 (29:31):
Waiting to excess. Cap help you, love mist promiss.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
To you, to you.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
To I tell one of me a pop it for you.
Don't wanna what the head is, Madam.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I don't one of you a.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
Job for you.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yes, you're.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I hate myself for great Ja. I hate myself for staking.
I hate myself for this thing too.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Ja from this statue Je.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Listening to Jo for listening to
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