Frustration Overload for Flames Zary – Flames Unfiltered – Episode 265 - Flames Unfiltered - Calgary Flames Hockey Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hey, Flames fans, welcome to another edition of Flames Unfiltered.
We are house Kyle Lewis and has always Brad Burt,
Brad laid on me. Where do we even? Where do
we go? With this ongoing mess of a team that we, uh,
we love so dearly.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
You know, it's funny because when when we we looked
at the season, we I guess we both had higher hopes,
yours more much higher than mine. But now that we've
come to a I don't know what do you want
to call it? A realization? I guess a reality that
where we're at.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Like yep, and there's no escaping now, there's no turning
this around.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Now. I've kind of just accepted different things, and I'm
kind of moving with different things. I'm still adjusting and
still struggling and watching some of the games. But we're
gonna make it work because now we're not selling playoffs,
we're selling hope, right And that can be fun too,
because it's something we really haven't had a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Like, it's not something we're really getting enough of right now, either,
wouldn't you say?

Speaker 2 (01:25):
I've thought a lot about that, and I think timing
is a factor.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
I think this team has been very, very painful. I
have a couple theories, and I'll run to them just quickly.
There's part of me that, honestly with someone what I've seen,
thinks like, Okay, they've given up and are intentionally tanking
because some of these lineup choices, shootout choices, it just
all these little things that's like, man, they can't actually
be this bad. The other thing I think, and this

(01:52):
is much more likely, I believe, is that they just
are so reluctant to accept the fact that they're a terrible,
terrible hockey team.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah. I mean, I think that plays a role. I
think one of the struggles that they're having is I
think upper management, Like I don't even just gonna blame
upper management. I'm gonna I'm gonna blame the fan base
in on this too. I think the Calgary organization and
fan base has been and myself included when I say this,

(02:26):
we get delusional on our own players.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
M yep. And I don't.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Think we're the only organization or the only fan base
that does this, but this fan base has just a
reluctancy to move on from players and a reluctancy to
believe the reality of talent in some players, and I
think we're seeing some of that struggles this year and

(02:55):
I'm not And I also think we're fighting another battle
with some of the lineup decisions and why are we
doing this? And why are we calling this guy up?
And why are we you know, what is this bringing us?
And and we're trying now when you have an organization
that's struggling some is there really? Gosh? We all we
can sell is excitement now right like the future?

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well what we should be doing? Yeah, but what are.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
We gonna do to showcase that we're not because we
really don't even have it yet?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Uh, I think we have more of it than we
realize and that you.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Know you think so really like and I would, I
would say, I would agree with you. I know you're
gonna probably say gridden and I know you're gonna say pristavage,
but like, and I would agree completely on those two.
But like, do we want them part of this right now?

Speaker 1 (03:43):
I prefer I prefer those guys turned up in the HL.
I'm perfectly contented with that. I'm I'm talking more about
the nonsensical. Please make it make sense to motion of
Rory Karen's after two games makes it okay.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
And I'm not defending the up or down to that
because I think having him on the lineup is probably
better than a lot of the other guys, a lot
of them.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Well, if you look at the statistics of how much
the flames out chance opponents with him on the ice,
it's significant. So that's that alone should tell us the
guy deserved a longer look, right.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
And I did see those stats, and I don't know
that that's just because of Rory Karen's but it is
a factor, right, It is totally a factor. I guess
the only way I can live with that decision is
this is Rory Karen's truly a player that you see

(04:32):
being part of the rebuild solution.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
And I'm gonna tell you why, why this is.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
On our team coming out of the rebuild. I don't
think we're very good.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
There's only one counterpoint, and it trump's any other point
about this. And this is where I'm gonna get little
bit fired up. I didn't plan on.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
When we disagree, it's good.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
You can't. You cannot. You cannot, you cannot, you cannot
assess players like this. That's not how hockey works. I
don't care what level you're playing, what level you're watching.
I don't care how many games you've coached, scouted, watched, whatever,
I don't care. This is not the way that you
evaluate talent. You do not recall a guy for one
or two games. Sint and demotem constantly. I would agree,

(05:21):
I would agree. I don't think this. I don't think
he projects to be a you know, seventy eighty point
score by any stretch. I think he could, with his
talent level, maybe be a forty to fifty point third
line maybe second in a pinch type center winger. But
we don't know. How the hell can we ever know?
And this is where I take serious issue with it.
I don't mind if he gets to voted and say,
you know, we kind of know what we have here.

(05:41):
The Wranglers have a good team. Let's give him one
more winning season down there if it means recalling a
guy like WILLIAMS strummeran or somebody else or eventually Gridden again,
although again I'd rather he keep, you know, cooking in
the EHL. Why why, why, why why do we keep
going back to Dryden hunt? And before you cound of
appoint me this, which you certainly could, I understand that
does a known commodity and that both teams are going

(06:03):
on road trips and all that kind of stuff, but
like it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
I don't care. I mean, I saw the thought process
of the road trip argument earlier that the Flames management
gave us. I don't see it now because I don't
think it matters now.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
But this is the thing, is you got to you
gotta accept reality, right?

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Is that the reason maybe, though, Kyle? Is that the
reason that it's like, all right, do we want Gridden
to be part of this? Or like we don't care
if Dryden hunts part of this? Any's serviceable? So all right,
I'm starting to I'm trying to and I agree with
you on ninety nine percent of this, especially like husca's

(06:43):
lineup choices and stuff. But I'm starting to like trying
to like reverse psychology this, and I'm starting to think, Okay,
are they looking at this the opposite direction? Are they
looking at it as all right? All right, everybody's right,
We're finally gonna buy into the math medical capabilities of
making the playoffs and they're there and they're not gonna happen.

(07:04):
So are we better off? Jokay, seeing our guys in
the HL and really letting him learn how to be
pros for a year because they are pretty young, and
and and and get a guy like Dryden Hunt, who
I don't know. I mean, we all know he's not
part of the the future, right, can we agree there?

Speaker 1 (07:24):
He's not part of anything. He's a career professional player,
which God bless him because most of us aren't. Who
is a tweener and will always be a tween her,
he's the guy he carries the thirteen forward if and
I guess so they do him are bringing up with
Sam Morton, but I mean even that part of his
career is I mean, people have passed him by significantly.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
So I feel I don't know, you know, And and
we went back and forth on this all the time,
and it doesn't really matter who's right or who's wrong,
and probably we will never know who's right or who's wrong.
But like I used to always be, like, well, Jacob
PELTI is not jumping off the board here when he's up,
and he got more than two games, you know, I

(08:04):
need to see more of Rory Karens. I can't even
make a full evaluation, but I do, But I do
look at him though, and I'm like, if he is
a factor on our roster three years from now, I
guess I would be surprised. But proved me wrong, right,
prove me wrong.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
But even then you have to evaluate them. Weather it
is there, isn't. I really don't care. Just the point
is is he keeps rotting in the ahl. You're never
gonna know. And you know, as far as Jacob Pelchia goes,
and just to touch on that example, he was very
effective in terms of possession metrics and driving play other
than you know, kind of act injury here and there,
and he just get recalled by the light and the
other day. So he's another guy who once again, will

(08:44):
never ever know what we have. And there's been lots
of guys that we've given ample opportunity to, you know.
And I'll go way way back here and say like
Martance san Lui was getting like eighteen minutes of ice
time his last season in Calgary and did nothing.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
I know, but we can't predict the future. It's kind
of like the argument we're people are like, well, the
Flames were stupid to get rid of Sam Bennett. Well,
Sam Bennis wasn't doesn't wasn't worth of a ship in
Calgary and time out and I let me finish my
statement though, because was he played correctly? I would disagree.
I would say, no, he wasn't. He wasn't. But you

(09:18):
know what do you do not do? Do you agree
with me though? That sometimes, whether it's dumb luck or
what like, guys don't work in certain markets for various
reasons and then will work in another market. And then
and then some guys would work in Calgary and not
maybe in another market. I just I don't know how
you get through that, right.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Well, ultimately it comes down to the same philosophical, philosophical
flawed this organization continues to have as they're terrible, terrible,
terrible and integrating youth through the lineup in a meaningful,
consistent way. They do it with you know, guys like
Coronado and Wolf and they seem to be doing with
because nets Off, which is great.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, but you know what, and I wanted to talk
about him, Gouz nut stuff comes in the lineup and
you know what was the best thing? Did you notice them? No?

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Of course not. It's not his game.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
I didn't either, But isn't that a wonderful thing.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Yeah, I wish other guys would get a chance to
do similar things, whether they stand that or not. You know,
like I don't know. Like when I think about this,
when we get talking about it, and I get really
fired up because I think, at the end of the day,
like this organization doesn't understand how to properly evaluate and
thereby integrate talent into their roster.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
But how do we And I agree, I don't think
we're very good at drafting, and we can tell ourselves.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
We're way better at drafting than we ever were, probably
the best we've ever been, but get worse. Well that's
part of it. But also when you when you draft,
well that's kind of where it's been stopping for the
flames and a lot of respects, and there's all kinds
of exceptions too. That's the nature of a draft. I mean,
there's a lot of guys that are not going anywhere
with this team, right.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, No, sadly you're you're bang on with that. I
sit though, and I look and I'm I sit in that.
I look at a guy like Connor's are and he
was one of the key guys I really wanted to
talk about today. It's just been awful one goal, one assists,

(11:24):
minus four and eighteen games played.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yes, and by his own admission, he's been awful. He
talked about that the other day.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Actually, yep, yep, I did. I did hear that, And
I thought that was I thought he I thought he
freaking I don't even know the way to professionally to
put this other thing manned up.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
I don't think it's much choice.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
I don't think he does either. I didn't like his
actions on the ice the other night against Gosh, who
did we pay before Winnipeg Columbus, No, the Sharks. Yeah.
Did you see him bang his stick down and throw
a temper tantrum because Netta didn't pass him the puck
Forgin didn't like that? M hm. But I'll give him

(12:02):
a pass because that's the only I've seen from him
that I didn't like as far as attitude wise.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Attitude wise, yeah, and I can I can understand that.
I mean, he's clearly very frustrated himself, and and those opportunities,
those like when nothing's going right, you tend to think
far more than you should have of you know, passes
you didn't get or plays that weren't made to you
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Right, yep. And I also will side with the fan
base and that you know, like plugging him in on
the fourth line, that's truly not getting get him out
of a funk, especially when he's with Lomberg. It's just
not right placement. Correct.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
No, he's I mean in the case like that, I
mean he's really just doing cardio. And this is again,
this is not meant to disparage Lomberg. I need to
player on the team. It's just that it's such an
ill fitting role. And the hope now when I think
grind Pike had mentioned this, is that Morton may get
a chance at the fourth line center role, which is
kind of where we hoped he might pan out eventually,
which would in theory mean that Zaria gets either comes

(12:57):
out or gets bumped up the lineup.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
But but my worries with Zari, though, can kind of
go deeper though I don't I feel like his speed
is like it looks like half and obviously it's not,
but it looks like half of what it was pre injury.
And I'm starting to like worry not about like I'm
not questioning Connor Zari's talent or his desire to want

(13:24):
to do well I'm questioning whether his body is fully
recovered or is ever gonna fully recover because his skating
is not the same. Am I seeing that wrong? I mean,
i'd love you to tell me, yeah, I'm seeing it wrong.
But he looks really slow, really so because he's playing
with Lomberg and Clapp, because I would even consider Clap

(13:45):
as slow or lomberk so to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Well, he probably looks slower because he's just not doing
anything right like, But I mean, at the same I
do he does look a step behind, like, I will
admit that he does actually looks slower, but I do
think his poor playplas in that. And I also don't know,
I mean his knee issues, which hasn't even call him
at this point, and you know, his career and the
injuries were not believed to be that significant. But I

(14:11):
wonder maybe if it's more of a psychology thing, you know,
and very two kind of freak accidents, and he's kind
of clearly, very clearly, he's lost his confidence with and
without the puck. And the best place for him now
in light of that unfortunate injury to Hansick, is that
maybe he gets the Coleman and Backland treatment for a
bit to try and help him find his game.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
But you know, you know what kind of like I
was really that when that when Hanseick got injured, and
we can talk about that shortly here, but when he
got injury injured, and then all of a sudden, I'm
watching that Backland Coleman line, you know, and I'm thinking,
all right, someone needs to fill this spot. And then
it was hubert O filling it and Tsari stayed on
the fourth line. It completely tells you about the confidence

(14:52):
the coaches have in him also.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Well, and I think one thing that we've kind of discovered,
and this would be my argument, I'm curious for your
thoughts on it as well, is I don't think that
Ryan Huska is very good at putting players in positions
to succeed. If I'm being completely honest, His well, his
his line suck. And I mean, I just want to
touch on this because if we don't we we I

(15:15):
think we'd be remiss. The shootout against Winnipeg where he
put Rasmus Anderson over several almost any other option have
been better. That that was actually worse to me than
then when Dennis Wideman played in Saint Louis and like
tripped himself from a shootout attempt and like went flying
into the boards. It was embarrassing, Like Rasmus Anderson looked

(15:36):
like he didn't want to be playing hockey ever again
in his life with that attempt. Every every breakaway shoot
attempt I've ever had, I'm terrible at hockey, has been
better than what he tried to do on color Allibuck, I.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Know, you look like and just shot it into a stick.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
That was horrible, Like what you need?

Speaker 2 (15:51):
He just shot it right into his stick.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
And that's the type of stuff between the coaching decision
and the player's effort where I'm like, is this team
actually trying to tank? And I know that sounds crazy
when I see it, even you know, I hear my
my own voice, But I'm like, I don't understand how
they can be this bad. But my point in all
of this and what I'm trying to get at here
is like I just I really don't think Huska has

(16:13):
any I'm a little bit surprised because he seems to
be doing right by his nets off, as it said,
but he doesn't seem to know how to get players
that I mean the Sharon Govich thing, and the player
has to own that too. I'm not trying to blame
the coach solely for this, but this is a guy
that scored thirty goals in the NHL and looks like
I'll never score ten again. You know, a talent can't
just disappear, can't it.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Like, So, let me get your take on this. You're
a big wrestling guy.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Right I am, although lately it's been terrible.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Okay, Well it's it's I mean, and and I'm not
I'm not making fun of it for it's rigged. I mean,
they knew who's gonna win. It's it's it's entertainment, right.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah. The only the only time that that comment ever
bothers me is when people like call it like fake
because reality is the impact of the injuries are very
very real. But it's I don't mean, the results are yeah,
and it's it's storytelling for grown men.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
So on Saturday, Frida, what day we play Santose? Thursday? Thursday,
I'm listening to NHL radio during the day. I was
off last Thursday, and I was running errands and I
was in my truck and I was listening to NHL
Radio and they do a show in the afternoon, and
I'll be damned if I can remember what it's called.
I should I listened to it all the time. I'm

(17:29):
not even remember what it's called. But anyways, they were talking.
They do a segment on there about like like who
to place your bets on that night, right, And I
kind of chuckled to myself and I thought, well, we're
gonna hear the go for the under on the Flames,
you know, That's the first thing I thought. But they
were talking about the Sharks Flames betting line and how

(17:49):
it had changed drastically Thursday afternoon in favor. The Flames
were favored, and all of a sudden they became heavy favorite,
and I don't know the exact number, and it came
during this hour long show. It kept moving that the
line kept moving, and the only way the line moves
in Vegas like that is if people are betting money

(18:12):
a lot on that. And I'm sitting there and as
I'm doing this, and I'm thinking, Okay, why does everybody
think Calgary is gonna win this? Because they've only won
four games or five games at this point, four games
at this point, and I'm thinking the Sharks are won.
I believe they had been rattled off seven in a row.

(18:33):
They weren't playing a back to back. Yes, it was
on the road, and I'm like, what is going on,
Like young scoring talent on San Jose, no talent scoring
wise on the Flames, Why is the line changing? And sure, shit,
we watched the game on Thursday night and it's shots
for twelve to one to start the game and San

(18:53):
Jose like literally was turning the puck over like every
thirty seconds. It looked like my Beer League team years ago.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah it was. And I think a few people
on exit point of this out, but it was the
one of the worst efforts I've ever witnessed by an
NHL hockey team.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
It was one of the worst played games I've ever
seen in NHL hockey. Both teams. Yeah, it was god awful.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Which is why that's why I got some fresh to
do with the media trying to, you know, play like
the Flames of like a gutsy effort, Like, no, they didn't.
They were terrible too.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
They were horrible too. They only got twelve shots to
their one because San Jose looked like they could have
given due cares less that they were even on the ice,
they were handing the puck over in the neutral zone, right,
it was. It was atrocious.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Well, and I gave some bad advice to a customer
mind who likes to sports bet here and there, and
I suggested just I thought celebrating would just carve the
flames up, because you know, Ecklan like, they have some
really good pieces in San Jose. And then I was
dead wrong and it was such a listless effort on
their part. And so your point, in terms of the
wrestling analogy, I presume, is you know that the belief
that some of this stuff may actually should be predetermined
because it just doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
I know it's not like I know it's not, but
like I was just sitting there thinking this is so bizarre.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
I'm gonna sound really high when I say this, and
I swear to God I'm not. But have you ever
stopped and thought that we think it's so crazy of
a theory that any of this is fixed, that they're
banking on us thinking it's crazy it might actually be fixed,
because that's where my mind goes.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Right, But then you know the thing is, if this
is fixed, you know Batman would have had Arizona when
a coup six years ago, so they franchise could have stayed.
It's not fixed.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Or was he trying to make everybody believe he's doing
anything good to keep them there? You know what I mean,
Like you always pay double's advocate these weird situations, and
none of it's logical, none of it's sensible. It's just
it's just hard to believe that a professional hockey team
that achieved what the Flames did last year, even though
they could have certainly regressed. But I mean, to agress
this much, and to be this listless and this talentless,
and to see guys like in connors Arey isn't even

(21:00):
generally much made, you know, hardly even chances now, but
has struggled to burry anything. Morgan Frost is just he
has less finished than I do, which is incredible to
even utter. And these like these trends are not sustainable,
but the fact they've gone on into almost December, but
how bad they are? They not sustainable well mathematically, so

(21:21):
let me.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Tell you this shouldn't. I'm not trying to pick on
connors Ay because I really think he's part of the
picture for the long term.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
You know, I hope so I love the player.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
I do too, But would you be like, would you
bet big money that this slump never goes away? I mean,
I I don't know, Like I hate to say this
and I'm not trying. It's not like like a negative
Flames fan, but like, I don't know, man, I I
don't know. I I think I'll put you this way.

(21:52):
I have a I think there's a better shot that
Sharon Govic finds this game before ZERI what do you
I can't even believe I'm saying that.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
What's what's your what's your thinking or basis for that?
And I'm not sure I disagree Becau at this point,
I don't know what. I'm just curious where you're coming from.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
I I I used to see Pop in Tsari's game.
I used to see Pop. I used to see him
win a battle in the corner and and bolt out
of that corner and make a play, whether it be
a great pass or something. And I'm not seeing anything positive.
I'm not seeing no no rushes, no corner battles, And

(22:29):
I think he's trying hard and he's Here's what scares
me the worst is I don't think it's because of
lack of effort. M we're Sharon Govic. I just to me,
I see a player that doesn't care this year and
I and I'm talking effort too.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, yeah, I don't even know what's it. You know,
every player goes through struggles, but when the entire roster
is permeated with guys that are struggling, I mean, it
suggests obviously a much larger problem. And I think the
problem and you and you've you know, hats off to
you because you've been saying this for a long long

(23:08):
time and others have as well, but you know, it's
been a long long on yours is. I think a
lot of it does tie into this country club type mentality,
like you know, David Begnata's you know X comment about
you know, upsetting the the you know, the tightness of
the group. It's a horrible group of it's it's the
worst team in hockey by a pretty wide marriage at

(23:30):
this point. Like, and I can't help but wonder if
like their tightness and friendliness is something of an issue
because they're not you know, we've seen Mackenzie Wieger, who's
been utterly fantastic throughout most of his time in Calgary
have atrocious games, not say okay, either, we have a
systemic issue with the way that this team is coached
and deployed, which I do think there is some of that,

(23:51):
but also the players are just seemingly absolving themselves of
any responsibility, not intentionally, not consciously, but they're phoning it
in night after night after night, and it's evident by metrics,
the eye test, The's special teams in particular. I don't
even if we should get into that, because that could
be an episode all its own if they're horrendous.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
I do want to get into that, but I want
to I want to make one comment to what you
just said, because I agree. I mean, I've always preached
the country club thing. But one of the things that
probably bothers me more, and I mentioned it last year once,
and I know I've mentioned it a couple times already
on this year's episodes is the fact that and Eric
Francis was talking about it again there Today they're talking
about Coleman and trading him, and they won't they won't

(24:34):
talk about trading him unless he requests the trade.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, I saw that.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
I'm starting to be like, why what are we doing?
Why do we care if Nasen Kadri doesn't want to
get traded, Why do we care where Rasmus Anderson wants
to go. Why do we care if Coleman wants to
get traded? Like it's time for this team to take
on a little Vegas approach and be like, no, it's
better for the organization to keep her all shut and
move this guy going to get the better return, but

(25:01):
this team is I was like, well, we got to
make sure the people leaving are happy. I'm sure Hannafon's
freaking laughing his ass off right now. I think on
the loser's end of this time to sit down as
a as a management group, and maybe Craig Conry isn't
the right choice if he doesn't have the balls to
trade a guy without making sure it's okay with him.

(25:23):
Condrey is a thirteen team no trade. That means there's
a lot of teams he can go to Boom, figure
the best one out and make the move we don't
need and I'm Christmas cards and check and make sure
that it's okay with him.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
I think the problem and it's been made pretty clear,
and this has been the case with numerous sports franchises
and always will be because of the one sign of
the checks. There's just a lot of owner interference with
the flames. There's clearly a lot of it, because I
think con Conroy's showing though that he can make really
effective trades. But I get the impression increasingly that maybe
maybe and I don't know, but maybe he's handcuffed by Murray.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
Edwards and I don't know that.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
And the Kadre thing certainly lends itself to that.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Right, Okay, what trades has conry? Okay, ka, Chuck came
to him that that was true living okay, yeah, okay, Well,
the Lindholm deal was a good deal, really good deal.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
That was a fantastic trade.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Hannathon was a disaster. And you want to know why
I was a disaster because they asked hannafan.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Huh yeah for sure. But and and we can go
point for a point there because the's there's a lot
of recorments be made another side. The Mark stron Ball
trade I thought was a very good trade. I think
it was crap. I had I had a way wrong.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
I got wrong right. I thought it was crap when
it happened at first, I'm like Kevin Ball, Oh, let
me get my computer out to see who Kevin Ball is.
Like I heard of him, but it was like, right, well.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
He had all the he had all the tools to
be an effective at Angel defense on which is exactly
what has become. But I think he's generally done better
on the trade side.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
Of the players.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, And I think maybe, apart from some potential ownership
in reference that I just suggested, I think he may
also be a little gun shy because he I think
he wants to believe that the market might heat up
as we get closer to the deadline. And I think
that maybe he's a little gun shy because of how
he made out, for example on the Hannifin trade just
first bad trade.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
But from what I recall, yeah, I mean he's had
a few bad signings, you know what, and you know
what in defense of him, like every GM makes bad
trades in every GM. Absolutely not throwing him under the
bus totally. I'm just saying that this this year. If
you want to see what dict hats the success of
this organization and if Craig Connery gets resigned, it's how

(27:47):
he handles Kadrey, Coleman and Anderson over the next three months.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Formally, absolutely, that's gonna say everything.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
And you know what, I'm not saying we rush it,
And I know you commented on another I'm not saying
to go rush and do it right this second. You
have to wait for the best thing. But the top
clock has ticking on Anderson, he's not getting any better,
and Cadrey is worth is as high as he's going
to be. It's time to jump on this.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, I mean, especially in light of the injuries with
the players in Montreal, you know, New Hook of course
being the big the most recent one, there's a lot
of opportunity. The thing that I don't see, I do
see Cadrey's value potentially going up because teams needs will
be more evident as we get in the stretch drive
after Christmas. Right, So yeah, ultimately, but to your point,

(28:33):
how he hands those trades is exactly what's going to
determine how we rate him as a GM because last
year it's become very clear based on performance this year
that the last season was the high watermark for this group,
which was barely missing the playoffs. That's as good as
this group was ever going to be. Yep, because they
can't be any other way because think about it. Achieve Well,

(28:54):
they overachieved, but all those players are now a year older,
which means the younger ones will probably bit better, but
the older ones are not better. If lucky, they're still
as good as they were. Coleman's having a bit of
an up year, you know, after scoring thirty two years ago.
Cadrey's about as good as he was, maybe a little
less so, and hopert Oh has redefined his game and
done for it. But anyway, these pieces are not going

(29:14):
to trade. They can't turn this team around. It's not
actually possible. Yeah so, and that's the reality of it.
So this is why I and somebody's get so frustrated
by the failure to integrate youth in the lineup properly,
because we already know what Dryden hunt is, We know
what these veterans are. We know they're going to be
traded because they have to be mm hmm. And you
want to see people.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Did you listen to Cadrey on After Hours?

Speaker 3 (29:38):
No?

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Actually I didn't, So please enlighten me.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
I would recommend it like they I. Actually I'm gonna
I like the way Eric France has handled it. I
mean he he kind of was like he asked the
question we all wanted to ask, and then Cordrey looked
at him like, did you seriously just ask me that,
you know? And then Francis kind of backed up on it,
but but still got an answer from Katrey. Kdrey never

(30:01):
said in that interview that he would be that he
wants to stay in Calgary.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
I don't know that.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
He didn't say he wanted to leave, but he surely
didn't say he wanted to stay.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
I don't think he's in a position to say that
he wants to stay. I think he's in a position
to say he loves Calgary. He said that, yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
But but but I got the oh gosh, you know,
and this is so like reading reading between the lines,
like seriously, like I'm trying to read what he's thinking,
Like that's real. I'm really accurate on that. But I'm
just saying like if he if he did not want
to even explore the chance of getting moved, he'd have

(30:45):
been like, no, I signed in Calgary to stay in Calgary,
and I want to stay in Calgary. And the only
way I will leave Calgary is if they forced me
by trade.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
I can't imagine, like, you know what that would do
to the fan base and the local media if he
said that. I know, but I'm just being smart. You
can't say that right now, you're playing subpar, your team
is dog shit. The best thing you can do in
that situation to say nothing at all.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
And that's pretty much what he did. And I and
I and I'm not saying that he was wrong. I'm
just saying that if he didn't want to leave, he
could just say no, I want to be a Calgary Flame.
That doesn't mean that there won't trade him.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
It just means, yeah, I just feel like there's so
much vitual around this team that I think get me
very calculated. And I wouldn't want to hear that from
him because even though I understand what you're saying and
I agree, yeah, I love being a Cagry fame. My
my my plan, my hope is to stay here, I.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Don't want to I don't agree. I don't want to
hear that either. If the management was like, Okay, well
we won't trade you, but if Codrey doesn't want to
get traded and we need and but it's going to
help our organization, Like I'm sorry, I don't really care
what Coadrey wants.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, you know what, And here's the other thing you
got to look at. And I'm gonna wi allude to
a situation I'm currently contending with and in my own workplaces,
we've got a very important piece, you know, my direct
superior who's retiring. And I've said, and many have agreed
and said it themselves, that his departure it sucks, It
does creates a major gap, but it also creates significant opportunity.

(32:19):
And I think that this person, apart from their personal
reasons for choosing to retire, also recognizes he thinks he's
taking He actually told me he liken to do a
coaching change. He said, I think, you know, as much
as a camera scroup, you guys need new voice. And inevitably,
when you let go of something like that or a
change happens, good things will eventually come from that. And

(32:41):
if we hang on to any of these players we've
discussed and we both know that, not that one of
us want to, We know that we can't for the
future of the team. But the way that this gets
handles is extremely important to the future of the team,
which I know is super obvious to anybody who's watched
a period of Flames Hockey this year. But I don't like.
I don't again. I respect Cadre for you know, for

(33:03):
what you've just told me about trying to kind of
stay neutral. But I mean the team is horrible and
it's got to be It's got to be blown up.
It has to be.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
I told your last episode when we were talking with
our friends from the Red Mole Pod or Red Mile Rundown,
I it's the cotter. Thing still worries me. I know
it worries me. I hate it, but it worries me.
I don't think they're gonna do it. I don't think
they're gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
I don't know how. I don't know how Craig Conwyve
and Don Maloney or anybody in the organization could stand
by a decision that doesn't involve trading him.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
I know, I know, but I.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Know, yeah, because the thing is, I mean, we're we're.
I don't know that there's a more inept franchise than
the Flames in terms of what have we We've got
gone past the second round once in the last ye
might have said past the second no once in the
last thirty two years or something like that. Yeah, it's
it's so astronomical. I almost chose not to commit to

(33:59):
memory because it's a bit Yeah, it's and and I
mean there's a ton of parody. There's a ton of
hot markets players want to be in. There's a lot
of teams, like, there's lots of reasons to not be
a you know, a juggernaut. But man like, but this
is a tough go. And I was trying to a
buddy mine, who Chris, who's trying to get into hockey
more and support the Flames. You know, he's been texting

(34:22):
me and he was over here earlier. He's like, man,
he's like, this team is horrible. I said, I know,
but he's a big Baltimorials fan, Like you went through this.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
News, he's primed and they oils sucked for years, so
he's he should be good. Yeah, you got.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
You got to trust the process as long as your
management follows that process. And right as of this minute,
they're not doing that. And that's where all the concerns
coming from.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
I gotta get your take and on this, Sam Hans
a good injury, Uh your thoughts.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Well, and Zig when he should have zagged your backland,
Zig when he should have egged. It's extremely unfortunate, you know.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
The people Bashi and backland. I'm calm on.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
I didn't see much of that, maybe because I chose
to ignore it, but ultimately there's a few comments.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
It's on Sam honsick. You put yourself off side to
save your body. It's an off side. It's a whistle. Oh.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
I think it's just it's just unfortunate around.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
I mean, I know what he was trying to do.
I I I know what he's trying to do. He's like,
I'm trying to do the best I can with everything,
and I'm hanging out and hoping it. You know, I
just feel bad for him. But well, because if this
is a head injury, which I think we're all suspected,
is yeah, pretty significant one last year and a pretty
significant one this year.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah. I mean that type of stuff is always scary.
I mean to say nothing of numerous other incidents Chris
tannevan Trono right now, a really scary situation with him. Yeah,
you know, even watching Chris Pronger be a you know,
pretty prominent the broadcast committing now and thinking about how
his career ended. But as far as Hansig goes, I
saw a few comments. I think actually our buddy Robert
was one of them who said he felt Honsick was

(35:57):
maybe on the verge of starting to break out offensively,
and and I hope that he was, that he's right
about that, But I also can't help I can't help
but feel that nobody is gonna break out efensively on
this team. But I mean, at the end of the day,
he looked like an NHL player. I I he was
one of the few guys I was excited to watch
play on this otherwise abysmal team. And hopefully it's a

(36:18):
it's a shorter thing than a longer thing in terms
of his absence.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Here is the X factor, though, and it does it
does touch on this and it's from John Ingstrom, and
thank you.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
John.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Kyle sent this to me and he was felt pretty
adamant about this one, and it says, I feel hockey
gods really want the Flames to pick in the top
three this year, as nothing can possibly go right for
this team. Nearing the quarter mark of the season, of course,
we lose Sam Hansig due to a bonehead play by Backland,
then Hunt, then Huska Ice is the shittiest shootout lineup,

(36:50):
and you know, it does sum it up totally. I
I throw some kickback on the Backland thing. I think
that's a little far fetched.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
And it's a bit of a it's a bit of
a coin toss, but I think you know, when well,
when he tweeted this was ull pretty fresh too. But
what I liked about this X factor, and thanks John
for that. What I liked about is that I felt
the tone of it and the content of it perfectly
encapsulated how awful this season has been. Because even last year,
you know, and we we droned on about the losses
in Saint Louis and some of the low points, it

(37:19):
was exciting. I remember week the week, we're in it,
we're out of it, We're in it, we're out of it,
We're right there. We don't have any of that, which
again is why you know, you're either how's that saying go?
You know, you're either selling wins, you're selling hope, And
we've been referencing that more and more. We're not selling
they're certainly not selling any wins, and we're not selling
nearly enough hope at this point.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
So what are we selling? Kyle uh.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Our YouTube listeners or watchers, just you know, looking at
the two us rubbing our heads, and you know it's
it's gonna be a really pivotal season in terms of
where this team goes.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
And and you know we're selling bottom six words and mediocrity.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
He sounded so disgusted when you said that.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
It's almost I'm so sick of not having any Okay,
I hate losing more than anything. And I was so
adamant and said everybody, I am not on team tank,
but this team's not tanking. They're this bad. We might
as well get a top end talent because of this,

(38:25):
please like, well, like, don't go on a run here,
like and I'm not cheering for losses, because that sucks.
It's no fun watching that, but good grief, like, this
is our best chance at top end talent. You guys.
If we don't capitalize and get somebody good, we're gonna
sit for another how long wishing him praying that someone

(38:46):
had fall into our lap.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Well, and I mean the other thing we talked about
this in the last show with our buddies are from
the Red Mold Rundown. It's you watch guys like Connor
Badar and macolm Celabrini and he even still McDavid at
this point in his career. It's these guys just are
so electrifying and they and they're that's just the way
that hockey is. I mean, you've got to have a
few of those pieces that are just electric, and we

(39:09):
don't have any of that.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Right So, who is our most electric player?

Speaker 1 (39:13):
N Asen Kadrick, which is pretty concerning given his age,
but he's a fantastic player.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Who's even close. I can't even say Coronado right now.
He's he's been really good lately, really good lately. Oh.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
Cornado is a pure, pure sniper though, right like, which
is a different sort of player. Somebody you can whoever
now and then can go end to end on a
beautiful rush and bury a goal or make an incredible pass.
We don't have anybody like that in or four breaks.
We might eventually with some of the players that we've drafted,
but it's, you know, it's it's been proven time and

(39:47):
time and time and time and time again. You have
to have that super high end talent. The jack Icles,
the Karmick, David's, the Sidney Crosby's, even the Malkins Ziovechkins like,
you gotta have a guy that's an absolute game breaker,
Austin Matthews and the included in that group, And hey,
I listen, I can make a pretty long list. But
the reality is there's still guys that can score and
score and score and do it in different kinds of ways,

(40:08):
and we just we don't. We don't have that right.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
You know what I really wish we would have done,
and I pushed for it last year. I always said,
remember remember when the Taco Shane Pinto was out there and.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
The audio when he signed his extension in Ottawa last week.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Have you watched him play? This guy's everything we need,
everything we need?

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Well, he outscored. He might still well yeah, probably not now,
but he was out scoring the entire Flames roster.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
So remember what I remember when I I would throw
out numbers in the last in the previous episodes, and
you were like, I made you want to puke with
with our statistics. You know, I vowed today not to
do it, but I'm gonna throw one. And you mentioned
it earlier. Our power play three point two percent at home,
worse than NHL history.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah, and it's not gonna get better with guys like
grasp miss Anderson on it. I don't understand why anybody
you'd read better off having a forward on the point
than him.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
It's our return for Rasmus. And again there was rumors
floating everywhere about Toronto this week and Rasmus Anderson and whatnot,
and well the Flames trade with True Living because of
what he did, and da da da da da. What
would we get for Rasmus Anderson. I am sorry, I
don't think the return is going to be very big.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
The leaf set, the leaves are in and and this
is tough un position right now. I committed the word.
I had to get it out. And the reason is,
of course, is that they're treading water in terms of
playoff spot. I think they're a game below five hundred
at the time of this recording. They lost a significant,
significant talent in Mitch Murder and no disrespect to Nicholas Roy,

(41:39):
but he's not on that level. And they're you know,
they lost Chris Tanev. The goaltending is you know, spotty,
I feel, But now they're in a spot where they
have no assets to trade to get better immediately, and
they had you know, they're committed in too many contracts
to really, I mean, the hope for them, I guess

(41:59):
is to sneak into a playoff spot and have a
goal thender get hot, which could absolutely happen. But to
your point, the Leafs don't have anything of interest to
the Flames in an Anderson trade. I don't think either
of us think. And that's I said many many others.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
I don't think so I saw names floating around the
internet Eastern Cowen. Don't think that Toronto would do that.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Not a chance.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
But you know what, the only way I sit and
I think about that though, true, Livin knows that if
he can't make a go this year, he's his ass
is gone.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
Probably so what does he have to lose, Well, his job,
he's gonna But if he doesn't win, okay, he somehow
could work out a deal and get Kawdrey and Anderson
and they can take a step.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Sure, well you get that bump when you get traded.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
To right, what I'm saying like he's sitting in his
office going, well, if I don't do anything, we're not
we may keep stumbling. And I got to wish and
pray for a miracle or maybe if I go do
this and at backfires, I get fired. But if we
don't do anything, I get fired anyways. Yeah, let's be silly.

(43:13):
I don't know, like we can always pray.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
But I much prefer the idea of a trade with Dallas,
you know, for the reason they'll be both just outlined,
just to you know, the quality return. But I mean, yeah,
to your point, I mean, Tree Living might get desperate
and you know, try to change the fortunes of his
team's that's his job right up till the day. He
doesn't have that job anymore, potentially, same as any other

(43:35):
GM and Conrad could be in that lineup too. He
doesn't have a contract beyond the season. That's been you know,
lost been said about that. And uh actually Robert Muniquurt
a great article about on the Flames Nation that I
would encourage others to read. And you know, we're a
few months away from really knowing much about how this
may play out. I feel.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
You're not expecting any moves anytime soon.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
I'd like there to be, but no, I think this
is going to drag into the new year. I really do.
I I and I don't know. This is where I
struggle because I want young guys in the line up,
get experience. But I think I think Conroy really wants to,
you know, try to drive these guys values up by
hanging on to them. Like I think Coleman is going
to be one of the best returns will get because

(44:18):
he's such as he's And how cool would be to
see him get traded to Dallas, you know, and have
a run out a cup with basically his hometown team. Yeah. Yeah,
and I and that's the thing. And I want to
be clear about this too, because we talk so much
about how these guys are all struggling, But ultimately I
I do enjoy when guys get traded and seeing how
they do elsewhere and wishing them the best and success

(44:40):
and it. You know, I want to see Cadre have
another run out of a cup. I want to see
Coleman have run out a cup.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
You know, everything that I don't want to see Backland moved.
I think you got to.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
I would struggle with that emotionally, but I mean, if
it's if it's a windfall trade, you got to make
it happen.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
I'm gonna I'm gonna push back on Backland in the
in the leaguer, even though I'm not really impressed with
Wigers play lately. But I do think you need to
have a veteran on the back end, and I think
you need to have one or two veterans on the
on the on the front end. The guys that I mean,
I'd be open to Sharon Govich talks. I know Darren
Drager mentioned this week that teams may be willing to

(45:14):
take a chance on him. I I don't see it.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
I don't think salary maybe, you know.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
I mean, I I don't know why why would we
keep Lomberg through the end of the year. I don't
know what we'd get. But if I got a seventh rounder.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Like okay, I think for a playoff run, you can
you can get like a fourth, you know. But I mean,
the market's the market. We don't know. It changes all
the time.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
And the guys I don't know though, But I mean,
I I think you need to have a Huberto a
in a backland and to lead this team. And uh,
I don't know, but I would. I'd hate to see
Coleman go, but gosh, I wish that guy everything. That
guy's been great. He's been a great Flame.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
One of the best contracts the Flames ever signed. I
really believe that. Yeah, and dollar dollar unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
It was one that we didn't see common even either.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
Well knew he was a damn good two way for
we didn't think he was thirty.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
For us, well, we didn't think he'd pick Calgary either, but.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
You know, he gave us. He was a big part
of one of our well well, one of the best
playoff runs we had, even though it resulted in the
second round exit. That's what I was ever a part
of anyway, I mean in terms of actually being there
live in dependance.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
So all right, Flames fans. This week Calgary heads to
Chicago on Tuesday, Buffalo on Wednesday for a beautiful back
to back. Saturday, Dallas comes to the Dome and in
the Flame Sunday and the back to back, we're up
in Vancouver on a Sunday night battles, so busy week
for the flight.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
We'll see some more Devin Coolie, who I think is
what we all can say. Leads Nhlan's are pretty key
cult any categories in a very small, simple size, but
we see more of.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Himlish I loot a forward to Yeah, me too. I'm
pretty damn impressed. Both of our goalies, and I like
what I see days. There's a bright spot where in
andando with a positive thing.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
That's it. That's all I gott to say, other than
they have a great week everybody, and we'll talk with
you all right.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
We're back again, sweet cocking Flames hockey and h yah,
take care of me. Thanks for listening to Flames Unfiltered

(47:32):
with Brad Burud and Kyle Lewis your source for unfiltered
Calgary Flames Hockey Talk. Keep it locked on Flames Unfiltered
dot c a subscribe where you get all your podcasts
to never miss an episode. Flames Hockey Talk every week,
presented by Inside Edge Hockey media Group

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Frustration Overload for Flames Zary – Flames Unfiltered – Episode 265

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Frustration Overload for Flames Zary – Flames Unfiltered – Episode 265