The Flames Inevitable Rebuild – Flames Unfiltered – Episode 264 Featuring: The Red Mile Rundown - Flames Unfiltered - Calgary Flames Hockey Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome Flames fans to a very special episode. Flames Unfiltered
Hockey Podcast joins forces with the Red Mile Rundown for
one big episode, a Flames Hockey round Table with myself,
Brad Rude from Flames Unfiltered, Io Lewis from Flames Unfiltered
and from the Red Mile Rundown, John east Hope and
from the Red Mile Rundown and Flames Nation Dot See.

(00:40):
Robert Munich Welcome everybody. That should be very, very entertaining
and a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Appreciate you having us on. There's a lot to talk about.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
I'm sure we're gonna get fired up here talking about
some of these topics here.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's gonna be a good time. Yeah, it should take
as long to get into it.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
I tried thinking about, like, is this better to do
this with us for when we're fired up and hot
about our team, or is it would it be more
fun to do it if we were like on a
ten game win streak. But it is what it is
right now, and it has been, uh it's been trying
to say the least.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, we're not gonna we're not able to talk about
a ten game win streak for a while, so we
can just ditch that idea and dive into what is right.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
What it's been going? Great? Has it it? Boys?

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Man? There's so much to talk about, and like we
really just start gonna fly from the from the hip
tonight on on topic wise, so I can just start
a conversation and get going. And I think let's uh,
let's start with uh, let's start with the owner's comments
this week, and Murrie Edwards stated that, uh, there is

(01:45):
no rebuild, there is no trades, and there is uh
and he loves the core. What were your guys thoughts.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
What what's what's the core?

Speaker 2 (01:53):
I asked the same thing. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
You're right, You're You're totally right. I it's hard to
determine really what is the core?

Speaker 5 (02:01):
Is?

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Is Weiger and then the young talent and Backland probably
the core? Is that what he's talking about. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
It's gotta be like a mix of the veterans and
the young guys. It's gotta be Weiger, Cadri, Huberto Backlan
Coleman like those types of people. And then it's probably
your Wolf Perrex and Coronado's. I mean, that's the core
of this team. And he loves it. He loves this core.
How could you not love this corre? They haven't scored
a goal in one hundred and twenty minutes now. I
was like, my jaw dropped when I when I heard

(02:29):
Darren Dregger say that, I was like, I can't believe
that Murray Edwards loves this core. He's like doubling down
on it. It's insane, it really is.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, do you believe do you guys think there's any
chance that this could just be like I don't want
to say like they're just blowing up stuff out there.
That's not truly how they feel, but in a way,
it almost is. They can't honestly sit and believe this,
and they can't honestly believe that this team's gonna turn
it around. Is this just like a smoke screen to

(02:58):
drive prices up? Maybe?

Speaker 4 (03:01):
No, we've seen this before. How many times have we
seen Murray Edwards defend the veterans in the corps and
doubling down And how many times has he told Brett
for living like the mandate is the playoffs and so
you see Bretch living instead of rebuilding when Gudreau and
ka Chuck left. It's doubling down with the Huberto and
the Wiger trades and bringing in Cadre and getting rid
of him. Mind So, I can't believe it for a

(03:23):
quick second because he's We've seen this before, over and over.
That's how Murray Edwards is. He He likes veterans and
players that are gonna win for him and what he
knows he's gonna get from these veterans. That's how he works,
that's how he operate. He has since he's bought the teams.
It's never been rebuilt here.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, I was kind of inclined to I'm starting to
believe I should say that it might be different this
time with some of the trades that Conroy had made
and some of the young guys actually getting a chance,
it seemed, and that's how we saw the emergence of
Wolf and Cornado. But more recently, it seems like we've
backslid into these habits without ever truly getting away from them.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Right, My biggest issue is like this team is just
not proactive with any of their decision making. It's it's
they're forced into making every single big decision. It's not
like Craig Conray's like, hey, here's our plan. We're gonna
move Raspa Sanderson a couple of years from now because
that's when we're gonna get the most value for him. It's,
oh crap, the trade deadlines in two weeks. Rasta Sanders
has an inspiring contract. We have to make this move.

(04:17):
It's like, it's not Conroy setting the plan, it's him
just kind of reacting, making last second decisions.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
It's it's very frustrating. Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
It's like, well, when was the last time a GM
moved a player out on his own free will intuition
that was an aging veteran with an expiring deal. Unless
they ask out or they're forced against the wall, they
don't do it. So I thought that Conroy when he
took over here and he was forced to trade Hannafin
and Lindholm and those kind of guys, he was kind

(04:46):
of forced into that. But then he kept going with
those moves, and you thought, okay, like, much like Kyle said,
this might be a little bit different. Well, it doesn't
feel different anymore because he still has Anderson here. He's
still kicking around. They don't want on a trade. Caudrey's
it's the same thing again, just again and again.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
They have to move Coudrey, don't they.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
I mean years due.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Two years ago we were sitting much of the fan
base was sitting here and myself was sitting there thinking
we couldn't give this guy away if we packaged a
first round or with him. This is two years ago.
Then you know, he's had two really good seasons, last
year being his best, and now we're speaking about him
and getting a return for him, like we need to

(05:28):
act on this now we are we're not in a
win now. It's so obvious this has to get done,
doesn't it, guys?

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, between now and the trade deadline, it has to.
Like it doesn't have to happen within the next month
or two, but between now and the deadline, you have
to move him because Cadre's value is never gonna be higher.
Like the guy's thirty five years old, coming off a
career year. Like you have to move him now, you
can't wait.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's really and especially when you
see teams and I was talking today but like the
Montreal Canadians like and everybody's been saying this of course
that you know they're a location for Cadre to go,
but him playing at such a high level at this age.
This may sound a little dramatic, but it almost feels
as though his value is going to start to decline
a little bit by the day, especially in such a

(06:12):
terrible team. Yeah like it, you know, as you guys
are saying like, you'll never be able to get more
for him, and I mean they really really need to
get moving on it. And the thing that's really getting
to me lately, and I want your guys thoughts on this,
at least from the eye test and a little bit
of you know, analytics have paid attention to as well,
it seems like the guys that were actually bringing in

(06:32):
i e. Sam Honsick and now young because nets Off
are night in, night out two of our best players.
And that says a lot to me about you know,
the necessity of bringing these guys into the line up, right,
because I mean, look at their contributing versus all these
that trends that we refuse to move.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
No, I totally, I totally agree. And another thing too,
is like if you end up moving a couple of
these players out, then you can bring up a Rory
Karns who's lighting up the HL. I think he's got
thirteen points already this season. You can bring up Matt Vagrit,
and you can bring up Hunter Bristovitch. Like you said,
Kuznetsov has been fantastic. All of a sudden, there's the
real youth movement. That's that's what the fans want to see.
I think the fans are sick and tired of watching

(07:09):
this group of veterans right now. It'd be really nice
to get kind of that influx of youth. I think
Flames fans would absolutely love that. I couldn't agree with
more with you there, Kyle.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Do you guys, Do you guys ever remember a point
in time where we had a fan base that wanted
a rebuild more. I don't even want to call it
a rebuild, like we just it is a rebuild in
a way. Well, I don't think we need to tear
it down to the studs because we have some foundation for
the future. I truly believe that. But I mean, I've
never seen a fan base want and really embrace losing

(07:43):
to build a better future this year than we have
right now. I don't ever remember that in Calgary, do
you guys?

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Even Eric Francis wants its day. He's like, you got
to blow it up. It's like, oh my god, if
he's saying that, then you know everyone's on board.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
You know.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
The only time for me that I remember being at
kind of like a similar fever pitch was near the
end of the Aginla era, that kind of twenty ten
to twenty thirteen. I think flaymeing the stands are pretty
desperate for a rebuild back then. But now it feels
like the entire fan base is united. Right now, It's
just feel like the people that don't want to tank
want a tank. Like they're jumping on board, you know.
I'd say now is probably the biggest fever pitch for

(08:21):
a rebuild. But I remember back in those end of
the Iggy days there was definitely kind of the same
sort of thing going on.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, it was like that was really really like that
was tough too, because in that case, as we all
remember quite painfully, the return on that trade as well
as the Bolmester trade was just abysmal and that and
that's what you can expect the longer you hang on
to these guys, right, I think a lot.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
Of fans are realizing what I have. I'm not team Tank,
but I'm tem I team realize what we are right,
And so you're a team that has good pieces, but
where's your elite talent? You look at teams like San
Jose and what we saw with Badara that did did
what he did the Flames on the weekend. How do
you not want that? Right? Like, sure, rebuilds gonna be
a lot of losing and there's gonna be some pain there,

(09:02):
but you realize what you have here. You're not winning
with Huberto and Cadre leading the way. Great guys, good
hockey players, they're not gonna get give you a cup.
They're not gonna make David you guys to the Stanley
Cup plight. It's not happening that way. So these are
young elite players. There's only one way to get them,
and that's draft them. So if you're not gonna draft
them the top three, you're never gonna have these guys

(09:24):
and Claims have never ever picked in the top three.
So it's about time we do.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Well, John, to your point, the guys you just mentioned,
I mean those pieces like Cadre's, the Huberto is probably
Backland Coleman. They're great, phenomenal supporting pieces on a on
a better team. You know, Cadri and Huberto on a
second line elsewhere be phenomenal. Right, they're just completely miscast
on this roster. So Well said, yeah, and it's not
just those two either. You go to the whole roster

(09:49):
and everyone's probably playing a line or two above where
they should be. How good is Backland that as a
three or four seeds somewhere else? How good is Morgan
Frost in that three zer roll somewhere else? How good
would co being a third lene role somewhere else? Like
we're playing these guys above their skis and thinking these
guys will do.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
Right, these guys will push ahead. Right, So you got
like three second lines going on here rather than having
a first line, and it's just you don't win that way.
Like sure, Saint Louis people are gonna prefer that example
in our face. But they still have first round draft
picks on that team. They still have high draft picks
on that team that still got that. So you have
to get your top end guides in here, and you

(10:25):
need your cadre's and your hubros is good supporting pieces,
but you don't have the pieces to support yet to
get yourself like a nice winner here. So I think
that's what the flames really are for me, Like, whether
it's McKenna, whether it's somebody else in the draft, you know,
somebody who has to come in here and be the
difference maker. We just you're just not gonna get that.

(10:45):
And unless you're tricking your whole franchise for one guy,
or you're drafting high in the draft, So why not.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, And like another thing, another thing people aren't talking
about is like I see all the people who who
don't want to bottom out. They'll say, well, look at you,
Nail Yakopov and Ryan Murray and all these top picks
that didn't work out well. The next two drafts are
stacked at the top, at the very top of these
next two drafts, they're stacked. This is not a Yakapov draft.
This is not a Ryan NuGen Hopkins draft. This is
probably not Con McDavid like an Austin Matthews or Jack

(11:13):
Hughes style draft coming up here. There's really really good
players available at the top of this draft. And it's
one of the reasons why I think that for the
next two to three years, you know, bottoming out's not
the worst thing.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Yeah, for every Yakapoff that's out there, there's a Leo
Carlson that's out there, Like there's always an example of
good when the bad, and you may not hit on
every single first round draft we've seen here in Calgary.
How many Bran Kron will come to mind for a
lot of people. Daniel Kachuck will come to mind for
a lot of people. You've had your high end first
round draft picks and not work out. We've seen it
here before. But the chances you draft in the top

(11:44):
three and get a stud is outweighs the one or
two that aren't going to make it. And you know,
we get a player like Yakapoff. He was still a
good player, just maybe not number one overall good. But
you still can find those guys if you put yourself
in that position. And I'd rather take the chance drafting
one or two then drafting seventeen eighteen and barely missing
the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
I mean I was never really team tank, and I
could still say that right now, but like, we're not
tanking and we're still gonna I truly believe that the
way things are headed, we're gonna be in that top
three more than likely. The challenge is there to make
sure we get the right guy, and there's never a guarantee.
I was always really leary about hearing the word, you know,

(12:27):
rebuilding tank and because I think of the Buffalo, you know,
the problems there, and there's no guarantees when you're doing
this right. But you keep putting the right pieces together
and you mix them with a backland center in your
fourth line, and you know, and find the right pieces.
This can go quicker then we think. But this year,

(12:50):
you know, I we have to act on some of
these guys and we need to move and I think
we're probably all in agreeance of you know, Coleman, Anderson
and Codrey to go out the door. Is there any
the other guys that you guys are looking at and
thinking that what could be possible guys that would go
out the door.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
But given how Conory's drafted, why not try and find
something for Joe Hannley like a later round draft picks
another lottery ticket, you know, if they're not nailed down
and they're not essential to your rebuild or your your
future here, why not ship them out? Like so, I
would go as far say is Bahall and Handley should
be on that list, even Backlan should be on the list.

(13:27):
If you find a taker. Coleman's definitely on the list,
like you mentioned, Like, so, I don't think there's anybody
really off limits when you're in the position you are
is the flames because it can't exactly really go worse,
can it than thirty second overall? Thirty second power play overall?
Just going just over two goals? Again, it can't get
much worse. So why not trip everybody out who you
need a draft pick for? Because you've see how Conray's

(13:49):
drafted the last couple of years. That's a lot of
great young prospects and lottery tickets put in the system.
Keep going with that process.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, I think one of the guys that comes to
mind to me as well, it's an expiring contractor Ryan Lomberg,
because as much as it drives us all crazy and
sometimes to see him out there doing cardio, teams still
covet Stanley Cup winners and you know, fourth line energy guys.
So Lomber can fetch a decent pick going to a
contender somewhere, even if their intent is only to play
him a handful of games down the stretch, right, So

(14:17):
you know, to your point, John, like, if it's not
nailed down, like there's a market for all of these guys,
and I think the Flames need to explore that as
much as they possibly can. I mean, as you said,
the results really can't be any worse. So that kind
of gets me thinking as well, because a lot of
the conjecture of ladies been around Ryan Husker's coaching and
how it's seemingly increasingly noticeable how ineffective it is. I mean,

(14:41):
the team's not scoring, they're not generating any high danger chances,
which Robert, you know, you've commented a lot on as well.
Would you, guys, I know what's unlikely with the two
year extension hand that Hoska would get you know, get
the bullet. But would you rather the team continue to
go the course with Huska and continue to get these
bismal results or would you be in favor of a

(15:02):
coaching change if that were actually something that was on
the table.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
You know, like the Flames ownership group, they've proved in
the past that they're not afraid to fire a coach
that still has term left on their contract. Most recent
example obviously is Darryl Sutter. So I don't think ownership
would be scared to do it. You know, the thing
with Huska right now, it's like, I really like the
person and I think he's a really good leader, which
I think are important qualities in a coach. But some

(15:27):
of the lineup decisions are insane, like truly insane. I
really don't get it. And if you look at the
development of all the young guys on the roster, particularly
this season, they're all a mess. Like Cornando's having a
terrible start. Zeri has had a brutal start, perrec not
on an ideal start. You know, you look at the
young guys that are under him right now, and they're

(15:47):
not thriving. You can even throw like a Morgan Frost
in there. I mean he's like twenty five or twenty six,
but you know, nothing's really happening there either. So as
the days go by this season, it's kind of hard
to imagine Huska is the long term fit for this group,
especially if they're going to go younger. It's yeah, that's
gonna be a tough one.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Do you guys think that Conray not having an extension
could alter and effect that a coaching change decision? Also, Uh,
to me, it just seems odd that Conray that Husker's
got an extension, but Conray doesn't, and is Conray happy

(16:24):
with Huscar And if he's not, would that be a
weird move having him fire him before knowing he's even
here part of the package. I don't know. It just
it seems like a I was make fun of Vancouver
for like putting the cart before the horse when they're
firing and and and hiring and stuff, And I just
I don't know, it just seems like a messy situation.

Speaker 4 (16:48):
I don't know. I've never thought about that actually, to
be honest.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
So the one one thing, I'll throw it to you
guys here like so so Conray doesn't have a contract
that you like you're saying there, Brad. You know when
when Murray Edwards hired Craig Conroy, what was what was
Murray's vision? What were what was Murray's goals? Was it Conray,
within two or three years, you're turning this thing around
and you're getting us back into the playoffs or was

(17:12):
it more of a long term approach? Because if it's
more of a short term approach, like I could see
a world where Murray thinks to himself, Craig, I hired
you to take us to the next level, We've gotten
worse every single year while you've been GM, you know,
like and now now you're in thirty second place, like
you've you've taken my organization and made it the laughing
stock of the NHL. Like, like, could Murray Edwards think

(17:33):
to himself, maybe I move off Conroy? Yeah, I as
as like a fan and someone covers the team. I
think that would be crazy. And I think a lot
of the fan base would also agree that moving off
Conroy right now would be crazy. But from Murray Edwards perspective,
does he think to himself, right now, you just put
my team in thirty second place, you know, and you've
been in charge for three years. You haven't done anything.

(17:55):
Could could he overreact and make an emotional decision? That's
That's something I kind of wonder about.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
A little bit.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
That's a strong point.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
That's a scary point of what that is because that
means we're back to the old guard again, right because
who then you put in charge? You're back to Don
Maloney trying to find a guy. So we're probably back
to the old guard, and that's probably back to signing
guys like Troy Brower and Brandon Bowleg. Back to the
roster and you're a man of getting top four minutes
and those kind of weird to take moves that none

(18:24):
of us really want. So it's a scary thought to
think that Conray wouldn't be here past this season. But
it does make you think what Roberts said there.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, yeah, And I think the other thing too, like,
and you know, Brad, you mentioned the Buffalo Sabers, and
I feel so terrible for Sabers fans because Buffalo is
such a great sports town, but they have bungled their
rebuilds so badly in terms of giving up on players far,
far too soon, putting them in situations where they're not
able to succeed. And that's my biggest fear is, you know,

(18:54):
as we inevitably try to navigate this situation, is that
we see these guys like, you know, I think for
myself anyway, and I've seen this, you know, elsewhere, Like
I think it's been really really detrimental to prex development
to be in and out of the lineup so much.
I guess I'll touch on that for a second. Like
I feel like Perek is definitely a little undersized for

(19:16):
the NHL, but that doesn't mean he's not an NHL player.
It's just an adjustment and you know he's he'll get there,
much the same as Sam Honsek who came in fifteen
pounds every this year. Right, But these guys that are
not getting opportunity or they can't stick in the lineup
because we play a Ryan Lomberg every night or on
d it's been Jake Bean so often, Like I just,
I don't trust this team based on their past and John,

(19:37):
you know, to your point what they've traditionally done. I
don't trust them to really ride this out. I don't
trust them to reach out to another team potentially and say, hey,
you know what, you know, Sharon Govic has had a
rough year, but it's still a relatively friendly contract. We
know the guy can shoot, you know, would you dangle
a third round pick form or something right or B
level prospect, Like I just, I don't know. There's so
many questions about their ability to navigate this.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
If we could get out of the share and Ghovish
for free, I would, well, yeah, and I'm being honest,
I might package somebody with him. And I hate to
say that because it sucks to have to to watch
a guy like him that we all, you know, thought,
I don't know, maybe you guys disagree with me, like,
but I did. I thought this guy can score, right,

(20:20):
And now I watch him and he's just a shell
of himself out there and just it looks like he
has no direction at all and no confidence at all.
And it's like, I sit in a wonder I'm like,
are we not? Like I hate to throw this back
at Husky, but there's a lot of situations and and
and Robert you mentioned it with the line combinations. Do
we do we really have to look maybe at Husco

(20:42):
a little bit for his utilization and why some of
these guys are off to a slow start. Because what
we're seeing from Zari and and and Coronado especially, it's
starting to scare me because those are guys I look
at for pieces of the future, right Like I'm not
worried about I'm not really worried about the And then
I don't care because they're not part of our future.

(21:04):
But I sit and I look at our depth chart,
and I see guys like Cornado and him struggling pretty
miserably this year. He just doesn't look at the same player.
And I started that that's where I start to worry,
and I start to worry about the coach's implementation and
what's really happening behind the scenes there.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
Well, you look at guys and you talk about Sharon
Govich there and how people are down Sharon Govic, and
I get those points too, but I'm gonna fend him
a little bit. You put a guy who's supposed to
be one of your best shooters at four C with
Lomberg and you expect me to get results. It doesn't
work that way. And so to your point there, Brad,
is you're having guys at Sharon Govic and Tsari in

(21:42):
four or five different spots over the course of three games. Well,
how are they supposed to define a role? So we
talked about this on our show a couple of weeks
ago about Ryan Husker kind of over coaching a little bit.
The line juggling gets to be a little bit much
after a period that doesn't go well, you're blending your
top nine again, and this guy's going there and that
guy's going here. You got to kind of start setting

(22:03):
some guys together and let them find roles within this roster.
Coronado can't play on three different lines and three different
nights and have the goals that you want him to have.
Sharon Goevich is never going to score on that fourth
line when it's Ryan Lomberg skating alongside him. And what
his connors are going to be, well, who knows. Because
you're playing center one day, your left wing the next day,

(22:23):
your right wing on a day after that. So you
gotta find a little consistent in your lineup. So I
like the point that you made their Brad look at
he husk a little bit here. Your line usage, man,
your roster usage. Put these people in a place to succeed. Like,
why are you trying to, you know, short change yourself
by using Sharon Goevich's fourth line center. It just doesn't

(22:44):
make sense to me.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
That this is where I can see in Brad's eyes
he's ready to start talking about Jeff for Ward. That's
where he gets really pissed.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
I always revert back to that. It's like I always
called a coaching panic in it. And when Jeff Ward
and we were blessed to watch him coach, I guess
he'd always like every time, like anything there's any adversity,
it would just be like poof, like all over the
place with the Lions and and I feel like that's
husky now. And I sit and I mean I played

(23:11):
hockey up to a not a high level, but you know,
a high enough level where like you have to have
some time to build continuity with players. You have to
you have to place players in the lineup in positions
to succeed. And I agree, John, Like having Klapka on
the first line right wing makes no sense to me,

(23:33):
having Zari center the fourth line. I I they're just
we just have a bunch of mediocre players just miscast
all over the place to.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
Me, Yeah, and to play Devil's advocate like a little bit, Like,
I totally agree with everything you're saying. You gotta have
some consistency of the lines here. At the same time,
you also do need these young guys to kind of
step up their play a little bit. Can't put all
the blame on Husta. Like, you know, you watch Connor
Zery and he just looks so slow out there.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
See the speed.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
I don't see the acceleration like we saw from him
in his first two seasons. You know, Matt Coronado, there
are knights when he just looks lost out there and
has no confidence. Sharon Goviich kind of the same thing.
So those guys they they also need to take some responsibility.
But at the same time, Husky still I do think
he needs to do a better job putting them positions
to succeed, because what I'm seeing is it'll be Connorsery

(24:21):
center's the second line one night, and then the next
game he's down to the fourth line.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Center.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Well, it's like, well, you know, how could Connor Zery
build any confidence doing that? But at the same time,
when he does get the opportunity to play that second
line center, he's got to grab it. He's got to
do something with it.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
You know.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things I've noticed lately
too to that point is I've watched the fair amount
the Ottawa Senators in person twice in the last two weeks,
and one of my best friends is a huge fan.
So watching that team, which has a lot of good pieces.
Obviously we play much more up tempo style under Travis
screen is certainly conducive. But you know, it's your point
about the players zoning it too. You know, you watch
Matt Coronado. I thought this was just me, But the

(24:57):
more I watch and the more it feels like he's taking
this same shot, but from six seven feet further back
that he did last year. He's not confident enough to
step in past the top of the circle like he's
And you know, on Zara, like I said Aboutzari, it's
the same thing, like he looks slow, he looks disengaged,
and it's across the whole roster. You know, I mentioned
because nets Off and Hansik, these two guys that have
played quite well. Devin Cooley is the next name on

(25:20):
my list of guys that have played really well, and
he's got zero most often literally zero run support. But
I don't recall a team in recent memory that has
struggled so much top to bottom, you know, first line
to fourth line, first d to sixty seventh y boll.
I mean, the goaltenders have been okay of late, and

(25:40):
Coolie's been very good actually, but this, this whole team
is just permeated with failure. Which sounds dramatic, but I
mean there, you guys know because we all watched the
night and I know it's it's you know, for sure,
my French.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
But it's fucking hard to watch, absolutely, even like a
guy like the Kenzie Wieger who's you know, over the
last two seasons, probably been your most reliant player on
the roster, and he's been brutal, Like he's he's a
league worse minus sixteen right now. He's making terrible decisions
that he normally doesn't make it and like you said,
it's been happening all over the roster.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
It's totally bizarre. Yeah, and Mike Gold was on on
leaker about that too. He's like, man, like, what are
you doing? And he's right, you rewatch these players, like, dude,
like you're better.

Speaker 4 (26:19):
Than that, and that one in Minnesota drives me crazy. Yeah,
he's watched these players play and they're like it's like
they've taken the scratches that Ryan Husk has made and
are scared to make a mistake that they might be
the next guy, rather than taking it as a message, Hey,
let's play a little bit better, let's get going here. So,
like guys like Zari and Cornado, maybe they're just playing
a little bit too tight with you know, we've been

(26:41):
scratched for not playing the right game the right way,
and I don't like that from those guys. They got
to be loose, they gotta be able to play their game.
And so I don't know what Husk is saying to
these guys or how they're approached here with those conversations,
but they're all a little bit too tight on that
bench there, and everyone's squeezing those sticks, and that the
mixed for very boring mundane hockey.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
And we it's it's there's so much players don't understand,
like from one day to the next where it's going.
And I mean there's so such of such drastic changes
and the confidence level. And then what I think also happens,
like with Weiger and and and or some is that
a lot of pressure falls back on those guys like
Backland and and they take that approach of I got

(27:25):
to do it all, I got to do it all now,
and that's just it's not gonna it's not gonna work.
And you know, you look through all of our veterans
this year have had stages where it's just like this
just looks like a different person compared to what we're
used to, and uh, it's it's it's very very very frustrating.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
I mean, the only guy that's really kind of played
to expectation has been Hubert, though you know, he's he's
been good not great, but he's been good. You know,
Cadri has been good for for the most part outside
of the first probably six or seven games. But outside
of that, you're right, you know, the whole veteran core,
they're just not stepping up like they did last season.
And you can tell but by the where they sit

(28:04):
in the standings at thirty second, Yeah, that's not real.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
It really is.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Where do you guys, what's your guys' thoughts and feelings
on the prec injury and where that how that changes
his development and and how that goes this year.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
Well, it's a big learning lesson for him. He's got
to learn how to take a body check at the
NHL level, that's for sure. I think he's got to
use this as a learning example of if you move
that pock, you can't admire your passes like you could
in junior. You can't dangle like you could in junior.
So it's a little bit of baptism by by fire
with this injury for him. It might be a blessing
in disguise a little bit too, is he can have

(28:41):
a chance for maybe to reset a little bit. Who
knows what his confidence is going to be at with
this Southern South right, and it might actually set him
up for an opportunity to go play the World Juniors,
depending on the timeline of the injury, maybe a conditioning
stint in NHL to maybe get some of his feetback
underneath them. So it sucks to be an injured knowing
everyone you know and see your guys get injured here,
But this might be a blessing to this guy. For PreK,

(29:03):
maybe take a step back, pressure off a little bit here,
regroup and come back at it after.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
For me, it's it's just with Perek. He's very casual
out there, you know, he's very nonchalant. It looks like
he still thinks he's playing in the OHL, you know,
like John said, kind of admiring passes, not making plays
quick enough like the NHL. It's such a fast game,
you know, especially compared to the OHL when you're playing
in seventeen and eighteen year olds and you know that
play against Chicago. So he keeps the puck in in

(29:31):
the offensive zone. In the OHL, it's probably an eighteen
year old coming to finish a check on you, and
you're the same size or you're bigger than him. Now
it's a thirty eight year old grown ass man in
Nick Folino, who who's like one of the more physical
players in the NHL, and he's coming to crush you.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
You know. It's like, I just.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Think he's got to make quicker plays, he's got to
get up the intensity level a little bit, and I
think he's got to be a little bit more aware
of his surroundings. But he's nineteen years old. Like that,
You're going to learn that, and these things are going
to happen when when your a nineteen year old playing
in the NHL. So, like like John said, it's a
learning experience. It sucks that it happened. But hopefully when
he does come back in the lineup, he'll he'll be
a little bit more aware of his surroundings. He'll be

(30:10):
able to protect himself a little bit more well.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
To that he takes his time now to like, you know,
when you're in the OHL, the schedules a grind, you're
on the move, you're playing a lot of hockey, you're
on bus, you're on the bus. You're on the bus,
and you don't get that time to actually build strength.
And now he's at a really developmental time in his
life with when you're going from nineteen to twenty three,

(30:33):
your body develops a lot. He needs to take advantage
of this and work more on that and focus more
on that to build that upper body strength and the awareness,
like Robert said, because that was not that hard of
a hit. The difference was just like Robert said, that
was a man hitting a boy essentially it And sadly

(30:55):
he's injured now, so it could turn around and beat
a learning experience for him. I think, I mean, it'd
be fun to be able to sit and visit with
Sam Honseick about his hit he took last year against
Chicago and how that changed his mindset and body development
over the next twelve months. Because Sam Honsick looks like
a different player out there this year, but.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
He is right and all that weight that he put
on and the lessons they obviously learned. And I agree
with you guys, one hundred percent, all of you. But
you know, PreK he this is part of my concern
with him being in out of the lineup so much.
It becomes difficult to become acclimatized, I feel, to the
pace of play. And some may say, oh, it's a
good thing for him to watch in the press, box well,
a player like that, especially when they don't have any
time in the AHL, they have to get up his

(31:36):
speed a little bit quicker. And it's it's very evident,
and not just on the hit where he get injured,
but several other hits the season, like he's been getting rocked,
Like there are to my memory, three or four other
hits that could easily been the exact same result. You know,
I would suspect it's probably a shoulder injury in this case.
But yeah, I mean I got a little bit ornery

(31:56):
about Eric Francis saying, well, he's not, you know, not
ready for the NHL. I don't necessar so I think
that's true. Physically he's not. But I think that's an
important distinction because the passings there, the skating's there, the
creativity a little stifled, I feel, or vary stifled times
on our Husco system, sure, but it's really the physicality
that he has to adjust to. And John, to your point,
I think the best thing for him and maybe for

(32:17):
the team is they bought him out seemingly, is that
he does come back injury and go to the World Juniors,
because he will play against a mix of you know,
all the types of guys he saw on the HL
and some guys that have already played some pro.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
Yeah, for sure. I think it's also important that when
he comes back that these flames stop playing him with everybody, right,
Pick a guy like absolutely Robert and I tried on
our show about it, Like he played with four different
guys like it's being one night. Then it's Hanley for
a couple of games here played with Hall who's playing
on his off side. Find a guy for him to
play with too. Somebody can learn from someone who knows

(32:51):
that I got the cover up for this guy. Someone
like a Kevin Ball for example, is a good example.
You know, just just somebody there that that can help
teach this kid as well. Hey, when we're out there together,
go do your thing so I can cover up for you.
You can go ahead, he'd be mindful of where you are.
Those kinds of things, those lessons that he needs to learn.
So it's not just coming back from the injury and

(33:11):
being ready when he goes back. When he gets back,
put this kid in a spot where he's going to succeed,
because the last thing you want to do is put
him out there again with say just random blow Joe
Jake Bean, and he doesn't know what he's supposed to
be doing. He doesn't understand, he doesn't feel comfortable with
that one guy. And then the next night he's back
with Joe Hanley again and he's got to learn the
whole lesson all over again. Put him with the guy,

(33:33):
let him learn and grow here well.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
And I mentioned that recently about Roman hammerleot to Dion
f Enough, which you know is a while ago and now,
but it is really really important, especially as a defenseman,
do have a steady, steady partner and a guy that
is going to cover you. And to your point, John
Kevin Ball would be perfect. He's got a quick stick,
he's a big man, he handles himself very well in
his own end, and that's the kind of partner to
the prec he needs if he's real looking at flourish

(33:57):
as a player and learn the pro game.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Robert, you brought up a point there, the nonchalant of
Breck and I watched that and I thought the same
thing through this year, and I'm thought, you know, something
could happen because of that, be him being nonchalant, and
and I mean, I don't know that that was the
reason this happened, but it played a role in it
for sure. On that play and I sit and I watch,

(34:22):
and I think if he had a leader, you know,
like Kyle just said, with Kevin Ball or whatever, one
of those guys that can like show him the ropes
and be like, dude, you can't, you can't do this.
You can't. This league doesn't allow that nonchalant. It'll help him,
It'll help him.

Speaker 4 (34:40):
Develop coaching too, reg where's the coach there? Like after
that first Behindians the Vegas Golden Knights, where was the coach?
Where was the coaching on that? Like you should have
been in his ear the second he got to the bench, right,
you'll make sure he's okay. Right, you own your suffer
concussions and scape by, but hey, you can't be doing
that at this level. You have to get decision. You

(35:01):
gotta make it, and you gotta be quick with it
because they're gonna close in you quickly. And if you're
on the ice, they don't care who you are. On
the other side, they really don't. They could care less
if you are Zane Perek or if you're Mackenzie leg
or they I saw Keil mccarget run over multiple times
last year, it's just moved the puck. Gotta be quicker
your decision making. So it comes out of coaching for
me as well, Like you gotta be in his ear.

(35:21):
You got to coach him up. It's all part of
the player development with the flames here that I always
say has been lacking. You gotta be in his ear.
You gotta calm him down. You gotta show hey, if
you're gonna make that play, make that play, but you
make it quick and move on because you can't admire
those passes. You got to keep your head up because
someone's coming to truck yet. Because it's just how they
did work with the NHL.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
You want your leadership group to help him too.

Speaker 4 (35:43):
Like the spot.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
You know it'd be great during practice and Mackenzie Wieger
pulls them the side and says, hey, kid, like, here's
how you take a hit along the boards, here's how
you take an open ice hit like the Felino one.
What happened was Perek was about two or three feet
away from the boards and he makes the play and
I don't even think he realized Fellino was coming. Where
he needs to be more aware, see that he's coming.
Make the play and then get along the boards, embrace

(36:04):
yourself for impact. If had he done that, he probably
wouldn't have got hurt. But because he was standing two
or three feet away, his like, all that momentum just
smashes into the glass and now he's hurt. So that's
you know, you want you want to see his His
teammates also kind of step up and help him along
the way to here, saying, yeah, you.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Guys, when we when we look at Dustin Wolf and
a little bit of statistical struggles out of the gate
this year, and that's kind of worked its way back,
or what are you guys thinking, And how do you
think he's going to handle the workload that he's going
to get with a team that's not really sound defensively.
He's gonna get a lot of work this year.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
That's so polite of you, not really sound defensively.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
More positive Kyle, A couple of rough episodes here.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
Well, he he shouldn't be playing as much as he is,
especially now that that essentially the season is over. It's
it's kind of ridiculous that he's playing as much as
he was going into the season. I was like, I
don't care if he plays like sixty two to sixty
eight games, Like, I'm okay pushing him if the team
is like around a playoff spot. Now that they're not
around a playoff spot, it really makes no sense. And

(37:14):
you have Cooley playing so well too, you know, play Koolie.
He's he's shown that he can he can keep up,
Like he's got the best saved percentage in the NHL
right now, which is insane to say at this time
of the year.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
So that only guy in statistical top kens anywhere.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Totally well, Devin Clue is going to be zero and
fifteen with a nine to forty save percentage.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
So what do you think, Robert, what do you what
would you fifty games that were you're Is that kind
of what you got in to mind?

Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah, like fifty two to fifty eight kind of thing,
because he's still your guy and you want to play
him like he's your guy and you're paying him to
be the number one. But you know, I think he's
on pace for in the high sixties right now. That's
that's just kind of insane to me. And then, like
I said, Cooley's been an outstanding so so play him more.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Why not?

Speaker 3 (38:03):
Don't don't run your your goalie into the ground in
a lost season?

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Is that a sign that management hasn't accepted the fact
that this team's not totally like totally totally. I remember
you posted I can't remember what game it was after,
but you posted statistical like what would have to happen
for the Flames to make the playoffs? And we talked
about it.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Was that was painful. I looked at my phone, I
said aloud by myself, I'm like, Oh, Robert, why are
you gonna do that? Man?

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah? And we talked about it and obviously credited you
on the show a couple weeks ago about like the
realism of those numbers and what that meant. And I
just I'm like, how can this management group not accept that?
And and but I guess then on the flip side
of that, what are they gonna do? Are they gonna

(38:52):
come out and say we're not making the playoffs? It's
a tough line for them too. What do you say?

Speaker 4 (39:01):
The management doesn't have to say anything. Their actions will
tell you what they think. If you listen to If
you listen to Flames talk with Pat Steinberg on the
Fan nine sixteen Calgary, he keeps saying that this dispension
group is gonna wait till that Thanksgiving the United States.
That that that arbitrary date that everyone has to throw
out there. And the point that is is, well, why
what's going to change in the next ten ten games?

(39:23):
That's going to change your mind with his flames units.
So for me, the management doesn't have to say buckets.
They don't just make the moves. Make the moves that
the signal what your team direction is going to be.
Have Conray, go talk to Ryan Husker, be like, listen,
the mandates changed here. We need to see your kids play,
so stop scratching guys like Perek. Bring up Griddin. Let's

(39:45):
play him. We have nettes off here. Play the pants
off of this guy. So I don't think the management
needs to say anything. I think their actions will say
what they are. And then the mandate has to be
given to Ryan Husker. Hey, we're changing directions. Huska is
always going to pick the veteran over the rookie. How
he is, It's how Sutter was and that's who we
learned from. They because they know what a veteran's going

(40:06):
to bring to this lineup. Sotel management tells him to
switch to the mandate a little bit. It's going to
be the same old, same old, So management, I don't
need to hear anything from them show me.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah. I think the only time you're going to hear
them acknowledge it is when these trades start to take place,
you know Codri. I'm gonna say when, because God willing
he will. But when Codrick gets traded to the benefit
of himself and is soon to be a hopefully former team,
you know, Conress can have to acknowledge. You know, we
had the change course. One thing that's been rattle around
in my brain too with regards to this. And we'll

(40:37):
talk a little bit more about Ryan Husk. Are any
of you guys and I'll just all throw this up
to the group here, like, are any of you guys
as concerned as I've become with just how unimpressive Huska's
coaching record is at seemingly every level?

Speaker 3 (40:53):
Yeah, I mean, how could it not. I know he
had a little bit of success in junior with Kelowna. Yeah,
but you know the Stockton Heat were always pretty mid
under him when he was an assistant coach in Calgary,
they were they were just an OK team outside of
twenty one twenty two and yeah, as a head coach,
you know, hit what an eighty point season, a ninety

(41:13):
six point season, and now what's looking like it's going
to be in the sixties or low seventies.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
It's not. It's not a good record, and he's low
low seventies. Better going the heater to hit that.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
The thing is too like like who's who's having a
ton of success under Huska? Hubert oh has has really faltered?
You know, Cadre's had a he had a career in goals,
but you know, Sharon Goitich had the thirty one one year.
But outside of those guys, like who's really truly like
stepping up and playing above expectations and who is coached
Husky's coaching really really benefited over the first three years here,

(41:47):
I don't I don't want to answer that.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
It's a great question.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, I can't think of one guy, can you. I mean,
that's probably pretty harsh, but you.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Know you'd say, pause, Basil maybe, but like he scored
four goals last year. You know Connor's air before, but
he's taken a major step back this year. There's there's
not a lot of guys to point to Fabi and
Frosted have have produced nothing under Huska.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yep, that's true. There's some system flaws. I think they're
speaking of you guys having any worries about the future
of Martin Paspisal with injuries.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
How could you not?

Speaker 1 (42:25):
It's been a long time now, I mean, and there's
been really no talk either. So he's been a week
to week for quite a few weeks and really minimal updates.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
This is very, very very Michael Ferlan esque to me,
and I really hope I'm wrong about that. That's a
good point.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
He's got that concussion history as well, so that also
plays into things too. Right, So throughout his AHL career
he was he missed a lot of time as well,
So it has to be concerning because you don't know
if he's reliable to be in your roster and availability
all right, So yeah, it's definitely is concerning. Uh So
we'll see what happens. Like he's gonna lose a spot

(43:03):
because someone's gonna take over that role. Uh might be
it might be Hantic himself taking over that role right now,
So it is concerning. But if you can get him
back and he's healthy, there is a role for him here.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Well the other ahad Robert Oh, I was just gonna say.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
The weird thing was, so the play he got hurt on,
it was in a scrum and Derek Forboard gave him
like a little uppercut, so so he got to you
gotta basically a sucker punch the face. But the weird
thing was, I remember he was back at practice and
looking like he was ready to play, and then I
think he like took a puck to the face or
he ran into to one of his teammates and that's
what like put the concussion over the top. And they

(43:41):
were making it sound like it was kind of like
day to day. And now you know, Ryan Husker said
the other day it's it's gonna be a while. So
it's it's it's super concerning for him. He's yeah, he's
had multiple concussions. You're almost wondering, like, you know, is
this guy contemplating, you know, taking the year off.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Or because because a betterment of his life?

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Right?

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Look at look at all carea. I mean I remember
watching the special on him with Michael Farreber. You know,
the oxygen tanks and and everything he went through to
get healthy post you know, like the play that ended
Korea's career was extremely minimal compared to you know, being
beheaded by Gary Souter and the other things he went through.
But and then, you know, like the rest of us,
I don't want to sound presumptuous, but I'm fully in

(44:21):
favor for his own well being to take the rest
of the year off. And I'm also just to switch
gears a little bit on the possible soul topic. I'm
a little concerned from the team's perspective. You know, a
lot of comments saying, well, you know, it's possible Cel's
absence a big reason why this team is struggling. I'm thinking, man,
if you're relying that heavily on one player, if you're
suggesting that's a viable narrative, that's concerning because these problems

(44:45):
are so much deeper.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Rooted than that.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
Right, If you're concerned about a guy who scored four
goals last year, you know, being the one to drive
the bus, then yeah, you're in big trouble.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
Well, but that seems to be a thing though, because
they don't seem to like to this point, I mean,
other than the fans and you know, people in the
media recognizing it, it doesn't seem like the team, like
the Brass is really sat down and set themselves. This
team is really really bad, and I do think they'd
be better with a different coach. And I'm not putting
this on Huska other than to say I feel his
systems really are detrimental to offense. Not that we're a

(45:16):
highly skilled team, but we have a lot of pieces
that should be able to score twenty goals and fifty points.
But you know, like we're you know, not trying to
sell pestimistic. I think we're all just being honest here,
like that this is a really really bad hockey club
In a year when you can draft a game changing piece.
That's not a terrible way to be But it is,
like as I said earlier, agonizing to watch.

Speaker 4 (45:37):
This roster is a group of guys that are good
pieces for other teams, for other rosters. Put them together
at posts in the mix if you have to, it's
still just a group of guys. For me, it's just
you got a lot of the same style of player.
You've got a lot of those middle six guys who
if you put say, Sharon Golvich in Dallas, does he

(45:59):
flourish or does Blake Coleman go to another level in Carolina.
So you got a lot of good pieces here. This
this mix is just not good. It's just not a
good mix together, which is unfortunate because you do like
a lot of these guys on this roster, like a
big fan of guys like Frost and fair being what
they can bring. They're just another part of the roster.
There's more of the guys so and those who want

(46:21):
to think Posto so is the missing mixture, it's the
bottom six winger, Like, is that really what the Flames
are missing, is another bottom six winger.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
We're missing high end talent. This is clear as the bell.
Watch the Colorado Avalanche the other night and I'm watching
them against Edmonton. Our team is missing high end talent.
We don't have any. We have a lot of bottom
six maybe a few third or second line players, Like
we're just we're missing that high end talent.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
And the other Yeah, the other piece of that though,
was like the high end talent from an on ice
performance perspective is one thing, but the reality is you're
gonna put a brand new building, you gotta have, you know,
somebody like in McDavid, abadar a Celabrini, like somebody to
you know that's gonna get those big endorsement deals from
you know, the the Adidas rebox the world and you know,

(47:11):
like and just makes you know, fans want to come
out and see that guy play. I mean, we haven't
really had that since Go Droll left right, and you
really need it from a financial standpoint, especially again opening
a new building, Like you got to embrace this at
some point, sell off these pieces draft as sigh as
you can. And you know, markt a star player and
and maybe PreK will be that guy. I feel Wolf

(47:32):
is that guy in goal, but you need somebody forward
to do the same thing and take you to another level.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
Completely agree.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
It's honestly kind of depressing when you're when you're like
channel surfing and you're watching elite teams, you know, your
top ten teams in the NHL, and then you go
and watch the Flames and you just see how far
away these guys are. It's actually like kind of depressing stuff.
Well to that point, And I just I mentioned this
to Brad earlier. So one of my closest friends is
a huge baseball fan. He got me big into it.
I was at a bunch of games in Toronto and

(47:59):
I had the funnest year sports wise, and in return,
he said he'd get more and more into hockey. And
he texted me yesterday he's like, man, this Flames team
like this is brutal to try and get me into hockey.
I said, dude, just wait for the draft. Man, Like,
I don't know what to tell you like this, this
is you know, I go to a lot of NHL games,
not just Flames games, and this is, from from my memory,

(48:21):
the hardest group to watch play. And as we all have,
we've seen some pretty bad Flames teams over our ten
years as fans.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
Right, well, it's not even the high end teams. Like
I know what Roberts ted point is there, but it's
like I was texting him a few weeks ago, we
were watching we record a show and then when we
watched the Sharks played the Red Wings on TV and
we were talking about, like, this is a different sport
than what the Flames are playing, with the excitement level,
the skill level, the freedom these players were allowed, like

(48:49):
Sam Dickinson was all over the ice creating and celebrine
has been amazing for the Sharks. So it's not even
the top end teams that get you excited. It's the Sharks,
is the black Hawks. He seems rebuilding, and then you
plip over the Flames and you're like, whatever that Flames
Minnesota game was the other night, it's not the same sport,
is what we're seeing in a lot of these other
hockey games.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Because abismol, I think, is the word you're looking for.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
Great word. That is a great word.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
But you know, it's funny you say that, and there's
there's there's so many things in this conversation of ours
that it's just so easy to you know, hone in on.
But you talk about, you know, freedom to do things
as a creative player. And I love that point from
you because what was really driving me crazy. I said
this to Brad I think was last week was mcken
zueiger after another loss. I said like, you know, we
didn't play Flames hockey, and I'm like, whoa full stop.

(49:38):
That's the problem. Flames hockey as it currently exists is
about zero offensive creativity. There's no real chance taking and
it's basically trying to get a two one or three
two lead and hold on for dear life. Yeah, Flames
hockey is your goalie stands on his head. You you
play good defense quote unquote, and you score two or

(49:58):
three goals that with that his flame hockey that Mackenzie
Wieger is talking about. You can't win like that in
the NHL anymore. You just can't. When's the last time
to do that? The one a Stanley Cup or even
want a playoff round?

Speaker 3 (50:08):
Right, spent a long time with the Devils and like
the early two thousands, but at least at least.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Those teams had some really skilled players, right and Alex mcgilney.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
Those teams also could defend for more than forty minutes.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Yeah, right, So we'll close.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
With this one one last question? Uh, who gets a
move first?

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Oh? Great question.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
I personally hope it's Rasmus Anderson because as every single
game goes by, his trade value seems to diminish because
he's playing so bad. This is now an entire calendar
year where this guy doesn't even look like a top
four defenseman. He's making really dumb mistakes that that top
four defenseman just don't make. It's it's bizarre what's happened
to him because he was so good for so long.

(51:00):
And yeah, this past calendar year. It's just it's been
a train wreck. And then on top of that, you know,
he makes those bullshit comments about you know, the ten
percent of the fan base you know, and you know,
because they want to rebuild and they actually want to
watch a winning team. That really rubbed me the wrong way.
I think it rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
It's it's a tough way for him to leave the
city at Calgary because he has been a really good player.
But between his play on the ice and those comments
in his attitude, I would like to see him get
traded as soon as possible.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
And I would too. But do you do you just
to come back to the original question, do you think
he will be the first one to go? I do?

Speaker 3 (51:35):
I do because he's an expiring contract, because Conory's gonna
be forced into trading him. I do think that he'll
probably be the first one to go.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
John, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 4 (51:44):
Yeah? For me, it's how fast does nasmkadre you get
fed up?

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Right?

Speaker 2 (51:49):
So, he's a fiery competitor. It's a good point if.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
He pulls and he's not the same player as the
door up. But if he pulls the door off like
move and asks out. I think that he'll be gone
within the week. But if he if he stays to
the deadline and he doesn't ask out, then I'm with
Robert on this one with Rasmus Anderson. Because of the
deadline that Anderson has with the expiring contract, Cardrid could
very well be a flame in the rest of the
season and get traded at the draft and they make

(52:14):
an offseason type of move. I can see that happening.
So for me, it's how fast does Cadrick get fed
up and ask out? If it's not Caudriy right away here,
then I think it's Anderson too.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Is there is there a more quintessential playoff run piece
you want to acquire over and above Now's Codrie? I
don't think so.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
No, especially if I'm Carolina or Montreal like those teams
that need a second line center. I'm doing everything I
can to persuade him to come to my team.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah, Brad, what do you got?

Speaker 1 (52:42):
I'm trying not to be negative here, but why didn't
Mike Scott tell me that Cowdrey doesn't get moved this year?
You guys? I am deathly I am deathly afraid that
we are sitting at the draft next year going trade
caught trade kadriy I, I it scares me, It really does.

(53:03):
You guys. I think Anderson's gonna get moved just because,
like we're obviously not gonna let him just run out.
But I think the the return is gonna be very underwhelming,
and I'm very I'm just super worried that that Cadrey
doesn't get moved when I think we could get a
really good return right now. I we need to act
on that for the betterment of the future for this organization.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Oh man, it's ential, I think. I think, yeah, I
think it's gonna be Anderson first, for all the reasons
that have just been stated, and then I think maybe
Coleman after Cadrey. I can see a bidding war type
situation as long as they cash it when they should.
There's a part of me that worries he's gonna pull
a Joe Sakek and hang on to him the way
that he hung onto the Shane. Now, mind you, in
that case, Sakic got a you know, King's ransom for

(53:47):
to Shane. But the Cadre one like you got, you
have to trade him in season to maximize his value.
Somebody is gonna say we're gonna give you this, this,
and this, and Connor's gonna go, oh wow, throwing another
first and it's done.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
So here you go, you guys. There's so much fear
in me too, of that one of these guys getting injured. Like,
I don't know, I I think I think it's time
to take a look at the standings, take a long,
hard look, realize.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
The future, take in the mirror.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Right, wow, now is the right time.

Speaker 4 (54:20):
The old bread, the old Brad Living quote, take us
from your players. Well, your players are clearly telling you
they suck, so let's u let's fix it.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
I thought you're gonna go with the soup quote that.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
I'm like, Oh, we could go a lot of directions here, man. Wow.

Speaker 4 (54:38):
Yeah, I could have pulled up the old J Feast
one with the intellectual honesty.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
But I stop that. He says, don't remind me of
the J Feaster years. Those were dark days. Yeah. Well,
now then I'm gonna say we're going for it. We're
at like forty points with ten games left.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
With jan Kowski our last number one center that we
were getting draft.

Speaker 4 (54:59):
Oh my god, hey, he gonna be the best player
in that draft you mark his words.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
We're almost kind of in Feaster days right now, in
the sense that the team is really bad, but the
owner wants to be competitive. I'm not saying Conroy's feaster.
I'm just saying the team's not good, but they're still
kind of pushing. They still want to remain competitive because
that's what Murray wants. It's it's kind of ugly right now.
He's he's the guy I worry about. It's Murray Edwards

(55:26):
competitive like shutout in two straight games, right.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
It's just a mess.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Like he's got a look though and look at the
big hole in the ground and be like okay, Like
this isn't going as scripted. I need a premier guy
like we've got he's got to he's got a cop
you guys, you think, so he's got Murray's.

Speaker 4 (55:49):
Looking at it. How fast can I get back to
even on this project? How fast can I get back
to even?

Speaker 1 (55:54):
That's what how he But if he is a good bit,
his fastest way back to even is Connor McKenna or
whoever goes first. That is his fastest financially, it is
totally it's his fastest financial game.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
I agree, But he's.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
Gonna think playoffs, right, you know how It's how he works.
So that's the fear.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
But Robert, the math doesn't work, does it. We're not
going to the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Nope.

Speaker 4 (56:19):
Unless they can pull up seven to twenty hockey, it
won't happen.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
But like John saying, you know, maybe he's thinking for
the twenty seven to twenty eight season, we have to
get in and that's when he starts to push, you know,
some some futures into trades and making mistakes and free agency.
That's what I worry about, is is twenty seven to
twenty eight. It's not let's get superstar talent in the building.
It's let's get into the playoffs. And that's what kind
of worries me about.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Murray.

Speaker 4 (56:42):
Oh yeah, find this year's Tony Amonte and Darren McCarty.
Bring those guys in here, because that was a fun year.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
At least I.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Did.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
And I talked to Darren McCarty about this a few
months ago. We played against each other in a charity
tournament and he said, Andrew ference was there too, and
Sean Donovan. There was actually a lot of excellent Yeah. Well,
all those guys said the same thing. They're all part
of that team, and they all said, man, we should
have won that series against the Ducks, and like, I
know you should have.

Speaker 5 (57:12):
Yeah, agreed, Yeah, yeah, talent in those years there was,
wasn't there.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
Well, this wasn't as depressing as I thought, So we
could keep going.

Speaker 4 (57:27):
We just started with the Jay Fiaster talk. We keep going.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Oh, we could go for hours and and I would
like to do this again with you guys. It's been
a lot of fun. And uh, I hope you guys
had as much fun as I did, because, uh you
having a round table, especially with so much to talk
about there really was. There's a lot going on in
Calgary and a lot of anger, right, I.

Speaker 4 (57:47):
Think it's more it's I think it's less anger and
it's more just you know, we're fed up, like it's
it's it's time now we all realize that what this
team is after this time, it is what it is.
Let's fix it. And the only way to fix it
is let's get some talent.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Well, and the thing is too, I don't you know,
I'm going to end my part in this little bit
of optimism. I don't think they're that far off from
being good. I think it's it's an eventual coaching change.
I think that is going to be necessary because the
message is already warm thin. It seems it's the in
fox of some talent, which is going to mean in
getting guys like Bristevitch in the lineup, correct, developing whoever.
The draft is year, you know, Rashnie and Potter when

(58:22):
they're ready, Honzik, you know, Like I can go on
and on, but I really think this could be a
playoff team. You know, by the time that new building's open,
if they start selling pieces right now. But we'll see.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Yeah, you see most rebuilds there six to eight years.
I really don't think it would take that long. I
think if you bought them out for a year or
two and you you get some elite guys in the draft,
I think you can turn around pretty quickly.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I'm right there with you.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Cal If we get a top three pick, you guys,
and then we somehow can get another pick later on
in this draft, I mean three years, three four years,
we can be back to a fairly respectable team.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I agree totally. There's some positivity.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Yeah, we better start right now.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
Yeah, yeah, if we start doum with feasts and we're
gonna start drinking, so that's not good for anybody.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Thanks so much guys for joining us, and it's been
a lot of fun and we hopefully we can do
this again in the near future. Make sure you check
out Red Mile Rundown and Flames Unfiltered. We both put
up podcasts every single week. Thank you guys so much,
and hopefully the rest of the week goes real well
for you guys.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
Thanks for having us.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Yeah, thank you, it was awesome. Thanks guys.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Hey, Flames fans, that was a lot of fun having
the Red Mile Rundown on the show today. What lies
ahead this week for the Flames Saint Louis. Yes, Tuesday night,
Calgary Ian Saint Louis. As the uh losing Stree goal
is freak continues, we'll see if the Flames can break
out of that. Thursday, the San Jose Sharks come down
to the Saddle Dome to take on the Flames. That'll
be a lot of fun to watch a game, to

(01:00:09):
see the young talent in San Jose with celebrinian and
everybody there. That'll be a good time to watch that game.
And then Saturday, Winnipeg comes to town for a hockey
Night in Canada. Battle that one's always a good fun matchup.
One of my favorite teams to watch play is the
Winnipeg Jets. Thanks to all our new followers this week
on X and Facebook, a new contest drops this week.

(01:00:31):
Get on over check that out. If you follow Flames Unfiltered,
it's an entry into the contest, And for every repost
you do of a Flames Unfiltered X tweet, whatever you
want to call it, we'll get you entered into that contest.
On December twenty third, we'll draw a winner. You can
choose your prize. You get two tickets to the Wranglers

(01:00:52):
game versus the Colorado Eagles on December thirtieth, or you
can choose a fifty dollars gift card from Shop NHL
dot com and get some new Flames gear for Christmas. Well,
this losing streak has been very, very trying on all
of us, and we try to keep today's episode as

(01:01:12):
positive as we could. We are back next Tuesday for
a drop. Kyle Lewis and I look forward to another
week of hockeying Flame Hockey. There was a lot of
it was a lot of fun working with the Redmon
Rundown on this episode. I hope that we can do
that again in the near future with them, and I
hope that all the listeners enjoyed listening and getting They're
taking that jes as Hell and I d every single week,

(01:01:35):
so make sure you check out their podcast also. I
would also like to thank both John and Robert for
joining us in the show. You can find John at
Vintage Hockey twenty four and you can find Robert at
Ring a Fire at cGy and you can also find
Robert on Flames Nation dot ca A. Thank you, Flames fans.
We're back next week hacking more Flames hockey. Enjoy this

(01:01:57):
week's hockey action than the game. I'm Astropy six. Thanks

(01:02:25):
for listening to Flames Unfiltered with Brad Burud and Kyle
Lewis your source for unfiltered Calgary Flames hockey talk. Keep
it locked on Flames Unfiltered dot c a subscribe where
you get all your podcasts to never miss an episode.
Flames Hockey Talk every week presented by Inside Edge Hockey
Media Group

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The Flames Inevitable Rebuild – Flames Unfiltered – Episode 264 Featuring: The Red Mile Rundown

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Flames Inevitable Rebuild – Flames Unfiltered – Episode 264 Featuring: The Red Mile Rundown