Steinback

Darrel Steinback had a checkered history and a lot of access to Kathy. Did she get into his cab the night she disappeared?

Flatrock was created in collaboration with Spreaker. Senior production provided by Kim Green. Executive producers are Olivia Lind and Greg Thornton. Co-produced by Dixie Bratton, Chris Chamberlain, Jamie R. Hollin, Cathy Lind, Betsy Phillips, Terry Quillen, and JJ Wright. Backed by Brandon Herrington. Music by Preston Garland. Additional voices provided by A Concerned Citizen (host of Swindled), Vincent Strange, and Steven Pacheco.

Additional music in this episode:
artist: XTaKeRuX / album: Illusion / track: Dark Room / license: Attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/XTaKeRuX/2019073141810785/Dark_Room_
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Thoughtless / track: There’s a Special Place for Some People / license: Attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Thoughtless/Chris_Zabriskie_-_Thoughtless_-_03_-_Theres_a_Special_Place_for_Some_People
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Neptune Flux / track: I Should Have Been More Human / license: Attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Music_from_Neptune_Flux/ChrisZabriskie-MusicfromNeptuneFlux-09
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Cylinders / track: Cylinder Seven / license: Attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/2014010103336111/Chris_Zabriskie_-_Cylinders_-_07_-_Cylinder_Seven
artist: Chris Zabriskie/ album: It’s a Wonderful Jaws / track: I Used to Need the Violence / license: attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Its_a_Wonderful_Jaws/ChrisZabriskie-ItsaWonderfulJaws-03-Violence
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Neptune Flux / track: Remember Trees? / license: Attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Music_from_Neptune_Flux/ChrisZabriskie-MusicfromNeptuneFlux-07
artist: Chris Zabriskie / album: Neptune Flux / track: To Hide Their Secrets / license: Attribution / source: FMA / freemusicarchive.org/music/Chris_Zabriskie/Music_from_Neptune_Flux/ChrisZabriskie-MusicfromNeptuneFlux-08

Special thank you to Bea Jones, Lt. Patrick Taylor and Det. Curtis Hafley of the Metro Nashville Police Department, and Chief Mickey Miller of the Hendersonville Police Department.

If you have any information on Kathy’s case, please contact Metro Nashville Police Department’s Cold Case Unit at 615-862-7329.

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Flat Rock contains disturbing subject matter whichmay not be suitable for all listeners.
Listener discretion is advised. Previously onFlat Rock, he said I molested a
lot of children. That's not oneof them. I mean, you never

(00:24):
really know, you know. Andthe guy was a very bad person.
Edward Warner Adcox was a convicted pedophile. He was arrested in nineteen seventy seven
for Cathy's murder, but charges wereeventually dropped. He looked like a good
suspect. But was there someone elseeven closer to Kathy who could have been

(00:47):
the culprit? Gonna voice her beingin very strongly that he did not do
it. He was not the one. She believed someone else did it.
There was no change in her mind. From Nashville, Tennessee, I'm Olivia
Lynde and in collaboration with Sprieker,this is flat Rock. After the break,

(01:11):
I'll go through the story of anincredibly strange figure in Cathy's life,
Darryl Steinback in an earlier episode,I briefly mentioned a Tennessee and report that

(01:34):
talked about a person of interest inthe case who was characterized as quote a
friend of the Jones family. Thatperson was given a polygraph that yielded in
conclusive results. Who was he?Darryl Lewis Steinback, the boyfriend that Cathy's

(01:55):
mother Nora wound up marrying in nineteenseventy one. The best place I can
start with Steinback's story is at thebeginning. The majority of the factual information
I have on him was pieced togetherthrough news articles and genealogical websites. Steinback

(02:15):
was born Darryl Lewis Leipsch in nineteenforty one in South Dakota. At some
point in his youth, Daryl's lastname was changed to Steinbach after his mother
remarried. By the time he wasnine years old, he was living in
des Moines, Iowa. I onlyknow this because his picture was in the

(02:38):
Des Moines Tribune in a nineteen fiftyone story about him being bitten by a
dog. Steinback graduated from Roosevelt HighSchool in Des Moines in nineteen sixty and
in nineteen sixty three he was granteda license to wed eighteen year old Judy
Gaale Tucker in au Tumwa, Iowa. Whether or not they actually married is

(03:01):
unclear. One later article called herhis common law wife. Here's where things
get weird. According to reports inthe Des Moines Tribune and the Des Moines
Register, just after midnight on Julysixth, nineteen sixty five, something frightening
happened. Steinback's young wife was shotin the head while she slept in the

(03:23):
couple's third floor apartment. Police saidshe was shot through a windows screen from
a fire escape landing. The bulletentered beside her left eye and exited above
her right ear. Authorities located thespent slug from a forty five caliber automatic
pistol in Judy's pillow, but thegun was never found. After being shot,

(03:49):
Judy, who was alone in theapartment at the time, made it
to a first floor apartment and knockedon the door. The elderly couple who
lived there called the police when theyfound her slumped on the floor. She
was taken to the hospital in seriouscondition, but amazingly she survived. Steinbeck
was among those questioned about the shooting. He denied any involvement in the crime

(04:13):
and took a polygraph exam. TheDes Moines Register noted he took the test,
and police established he was at workwhen the shooting occurred, though they
didn't say what the results of thattest were. He was released after being
held all day. This may bea good time to tell you that I
was told by b Jones, thewidow of Cathy's brother Kelly, that Steinback

(04:36):
had been heard a number of timesmaking statements about how to pass a polygraph
test. Well, in the eighties, you could apply for jobs that you
would have to take a polygraph forwardin order to get the job, you
would have to pass. And Ibelieve Kelly were trying to do that.
Yeah, Kelly didn't have a houseof education, so he was trying to

(04:59):
better herself and get a better job. But Garrol would go into detail how
to focus and not directly focus onthem. And then you know, back
then there was a dread like pinterbarbatole that you could take to calm you.
And you know, he knew howto pass a polygraph and he would

(05:19):
go a great detail with Kelly.But Daryl was just that person and he
could lie straight to your face andyou wouldn't know the difference. And I
know that to be true for manyreasons. There was an incident that Kelly

(05:40):
was involved in. We went toGarrold's home. Kelly got out of the
court. Someone else came up aboutthis incident. Darrel knew about it.
They asked Garrol about it. Daryl'sstraight lie to him and carried on the
conversation like nothing ever happened, andwe were right there. Steinback told police

(06:00):
he had been at work at agas station from ten pm Monday until one
thirty am Tuesday, covering the timeJudy was shot. It's unclear whether there
was anyone else at the station tocorroborate his alibi. The drive from the
gas station to the Steinback's apartment wasonly three point seven miles, so it's

(06:20):
conceivable that he could have slipped awayfrom work, committed the crime, and
returned without being noticed if no oneelse was on duty at the time.
However, it seems as though policewere satisfied with the alibi, since they
let him go. That's the lastpiece of information I could find about Steinback's
time in Iowa or his relationship withJudy. Perhaps I'm reaching to think it

(06:45):
was possible that Steinbach shot her,but once I give you the sum total
of his history, I think you'llhave to agree that it's pretty odd that
one person could be so close toso many violent events. I don't know
why or exactly when Steinbeck moved toTennessee, but he was here by the
fall of nineteen sixty seven because hemarried a woman by the name of Melinda

(07:09):
Jane Kristal in Robertson County that October. The exact date they divorced isn't clear,
but Chrissell gave birth to the couple'sdaughter in the summer of nineteen sixty
nine. I was able to trackdown his biological daughter, Darla Jane Coleman.
Darla didn't know much about Steinback,who she said abandoned her and her

(07:32):
mother when she was just a baby. She did say, however, that
her mother emphasized the fact that hewasn't a good man. Based on the
timeline, it seems most likely thatSteinback abandoned Darla and her mother to move
in with Kathy's mother, Nora.It's difficult to get complete criminal history on

(07:55):
Nashvillians, for instance, before aboutnineteen eighty, so there's a post ability
that there could be some arrests forSteinback that I don't know about. A
report from the Tennessee Bureau of Investigationlisted only one arrest for him. He
was charged with possession of dangerous drugsin September of nineteen sixty eight. No

(08:16):
other details on the incident were available. Other arrests, as far as any
records I was able to obtain,wouldn't come until later. As we already
know, Steinback was romantically involved withNora by the winter of nineteen sixty nine.
When Kathy was killed, I wascurious as to how Kathy felt about

(08:41):
him, so I asked Steinback's friendTim, who shared a story with me
about Kathy's reaction to her mother's relationship. Was Steinback. Her complaint was,
she just didn't warn him in thepicture he was coming between her mother and
her father. I remember one daywas going down on the streets and Daryl

(09:01):
and Nora and I were in thefront season three children get two brothers were
in the back, and Darryl,Nora and I were chatting, and Kathy,
I mean, just generated up outof nothing. She started in on
her mother right in front of Darryl, telling her that she would get away
from Daryl and get back with herfather, and it was running their lives

(09:26):
and all that sort of saying shewas really disturbed about it. And you
know, oil this happens all thetime when the broken family after deal with
the afternoon. Anyhow, I wastrying to defeat it. I was trying
to tell little jokes that would appealto, you know, children as well

(09:46):
as adults. Difeased the situation.It was kind of embarrassing. I felt
sort out of plays, even thoughI knew Daryl very well. Kathy called
her father the day she went missing. The speculation from family members and investigators
was that she wanted to talk toBill about Steinbeck and things that had been

(10:07):
going on in the home, specificallythat Steinback had been molesting someone. Of
course, we can't know this forsure, but Mickey Miller, the former
Metro cold case investigator, had astrong sense that Cathy was about to ask
her father for help, and infact, she had called her father that

(10:28):
day to try to get him heworked at a carnival and that the carnival
was in town, and tried toget him to come and talk to her,
said she had something very important totell him. He'd tell her he
wasn't able to that day, buthe'd say her at the weekend or something
like that. And of course henever got a chance to do because her

(10:48):
father would have probably killed him,be honest with you. When he came
home and found out what was goingon between Nora and Steinbeck, he actually
chased him down the street. Steinbeckwhen running for his life because Kathy's getty
would have probably killy. The questionin the minds of police was whether or

(11:11):
not Steinback realized she was calling herfather to tell him Steinback was molesting someone
and murdered Kathy to silence her.There was also something about the crime scene
that pointed to Steinback's possible involvement.As b. Jones told me, well,
what shocked me though, and thiscame out of Gona, was where
they found kathy body, Donna said, is where Darryl and Nora used to

(11:37):
meet at. Now that's too muchhad at right there. Before Kathy was
even found, her mother and Steinbackpointed the finger at Bill. Nora and
Steinback told Tim they thought Bill andhis sister had taken Kathy to Clarksville just
to make trouble for them. Theyasked Tim to go out with Bill to

(11:58):
show photos of Kathy around the neighborhoodso he could get a sense of the
girl's father. So I went outwith him. I've got Tim on tape
describing that spy mission how he watchedBill closely as he talked to people in
the neighborhood about his missing daughter.The audio's really hard to understand, so

(12:18):
I'll just share the most important takeawayfrom that conversation. I reported to Daryl
Nora, you know, completely sincewhat Tim said there was that he mean,
Bill seems completely sincere, which iswhat he says. He told Daryl
and Nora, but they still insistedBill must have taken Cathie. After that,

(12:43):
Tim talked more with Steinbeck about thepossibility of Bill and his sister having
kidnapped the little girl. I toldDaryl, I said, well, I
said, I'll tell you this damnmuch. I said, they're sure staring
up a lot of trouble. They'vegot the police all fired up on this,
and I said they've got civil defenseout beating the bush and all this.

(13:03):
I said, they're staring up anawful lot of trouble. And I
said, whenever they are caught inthis lie, by God, that they
should all go to jail. Thefather and his sister should go to jail,
and that Kathie should be punished becauseeven though she was a child,
she did know better than to participatein anything like that. She should be

(13:26):
punished pushing. Imagine how I feltwhen it emerged later that she had been
killed, raped, tortured, andkilled. I felt badly about it.
It seemed that Ricky and Kelly Jones, Cathy's brothers, didn't get along with
Steinback either. According to Tim,Steinbeck had a difficult relationship with the boys

(13:48):
over the years. The impression hegave was that they were a handful.
Then again, what teenagers aren't.Steinbeck had no legal history of sex crimes,
but there were whispers of child molestation. While I can't give many details
because it's necessary to protect the identitiesof his alleged victims, there were at

(14:09):
least three people who as adults toldothers they'd been molested by Steinback. B
Jones got a hint about this sideof Steinback the first time she met him.
The very first time I met Daryland Nora was in nineteen eighty eight.
So we got here home, andwhile we're sitting there, I have
a daughter from a previous relationship.She was about too at the time,

(14:35):
and we went there long and Darylwanted to take her to McDonald's Kelly quickly
said, I will go with you, and the way he said it,
I knew something was wrong and Ilooked at him and humane player. We
ended up believing, but Daryl didn'twant to take her to McDonald's anymore.
So we get in the car andI said, what happened? What was

(14:58):
that about? He said, donot ever let her around Darrell sign back,
do not leave her alone? Donot leave her thought when he's around?
Why, I asked, well,of course we just started a relationship.
He wouldn't go in details, justdo not. So we really didn't

(15:20):
go over there when Darrell was home, or she was in school, or
you know, she went to preschoollater, and she was just never left
around Daryl. And we try tovisit when Darrell was not home. And
not soon after that, you know, Donna and I start talking and then
she's telling me all these stories becauseat the same time I first went to
North's home, there was a largephoto of Kathy of over the fireplace,

(15:45):
and I asked, Kelly, wasthat I didn't know anything about a sister?
Because what's hot? Later? Okay, So then he tells me the
story, and then, of course, when Donna tells me her story.
I'm terrified. I'm like, formy children's safety. I'm like, oh,
my goodness, here's a man thatkilled his child. And I didn't

(16:07):
know the details of the murder,and I was still terrified. But once
I started knowing exactly what happened toKathy, I'm like, I don't want
my children around and she was thesame way. It would you know,
she would not talk because of herchildren, because she was afraid something would
happen to them, and that's howwe are all guarded. We just wouldn't
say anything about the situation because ofher children. Later she learned in more

(16:33):
detail why Kelly didn't want Steinback alonearound any of the children in the family.
More than one person with inhibitions easedby alcohol told me that Steinback had
molested them in childhood. Of course, my husband went in detail about girl
molested children, and then on manyoccasions to other individuals under the influence telling

(17:00):
me stories about Daryl molesting them too. It was a thing with a family
they did not allow their children,but nobody ever spoke of the situation,
so of course I didn't find outmany years about the molestation. And this
is something that Rollman and so Iwant to talk about volunteerly, you know.
So I really don't know how manyto be honest, because it's just

(17:22):
something I don't think nobody wants totell. She also told me about a
dust up between Steinback and Kelly shortlybefore Kelly's death that sent up more red
flags. The week prior to hisdeath, we had another incident with my
daughter. She was twelve. We'vehad many incidents with Darrel and her.
He would go to the school busand just sat there why she was getting

(17:45):
off. He would show up atthe skating ring. She would have to
call for us to come and gether. I don't exactly remember exactly what
happened that week to let up towhat he did with her. She wasn't
out around him, but either heshowed up somewhere and so garryl and Kelly.
He had a physical altercation and thenhe killed itself. Another source who

(18:14):
knew Steinback much later on, didn'thave any direct knowledge of him molesting children,
but had a bad feeling about him. She said he would frequently try
to get young girls to sit onhis lap and got a strange look on
his face when they did. Itold Steinback's friend Tim about the sexual abuse

(18:37):
allegations, and he seemed genuinely surprised. He said he had no knowledge of
any activity like that from Steinback.We will probably never know for certain if
the allegations are true, but intoday's society, people are working hard to
transform the way victims of sexual assaultare treated. Historically, and currently victims

(19:00):
who report sexual assault are often metwith skepticism and blame. While it would
be impossible to prove today that Steinbackmolested these children, we also have no
reason not to believe them. Plusthe fact that there were allegations from more
than one person, as well assuspicions from another who knew him decades later,

(19:22):
is concerning. This is my ownspeculation, but it seems like Nora
would have to have heard the sexualabuse allegations against Steinback, and it's pretty
much a certainty she would have knownhe was looked at seriously as a suspect
in her daughter's murder. It seemsinconceivable that she would stay with Steinback in

(19:48):
light of this, But Mickey Millerexplained that that dynamic is more common than
we'd like to think. And youknow, we say that all the time.
You know that your boyfriend or yournew husband or whatever has molested your
child. I've seen this happen somany times, and yet when DHS is

(20:11):
coming to take the child away,and the child's crying for you, mama,
and you just ignore the child andare holding on to their boyfriend because
you don't want him to be takenaway. I don't understand that. Tim,
on the other hand, felt thathad Steinbach been guilty of the murder,
there would have been prior molestation ofCathy, and Nora wouldn't have stood

(20:34):
for it. If Gerrold had beenguilty of it, he would have probably
already had made a move, andhe didn't because if he had, the
little girl would have told her motherand they would have been hell to pay.
However, be Jones saw it differently. People were told that girl did
it, and Nora no, likeI said, had a temper, so

(20:56):
people didn't go up again. Nora, she had him known that Darrell was
a suspect, and then years latertheir speculation that they were following Darryl.
And this happened many times to whereshe defended Daryl. I mean he brought
in for a polygraph day, hauntedhim for years. I do know that

(21:17):
one detected to Kelly that Darrell wasdating someone that described how Darryl is susual
activities would tie her up. Sameis that way Cathy was found. You
know they told Nora it is.I mean, at one point you have
to say, come on, ifI thought somebody killed my daughter, I'm

(21:40):
sorry, I'm gonna react differently.Maybe the wrong thing to do, but
there is some strong evidence there.In spite of the whispers about Steinbeck early
in the investigation of Cathy's murder,he was never named in the media.
As best I could tell. Theone article that referenced a friend of the

(22:00):
family who would often stay in theJones home overnight was the only hint of
him ever to hit the papers.The official record on Steinback was quiet for
the next few years. His criminalhistory picked back up in the mid nineteen
seventies, when in October of nineteenseventy five, he was charged with assault

(22:22):
with a pistol. I have noother details on that arrest, but I
do have a mug shot, whichI'll post on the show's website, flat
rockpod dot com. There were othertraffic related arrests, as well as an
arrest in October nineteen ninety one forshoplifting at a hardware store. According to
the arrest report, the store securityobserved Steinback putting merchandise in his pants,

(22:48):
and they stopped him when he leftthe store. The report indicated that he
was arrested rather than given a citationbecause he gave false information to the officer.
I wasn't able to learn what thatfalse information was or how they determined
that he was lying. The officeralso noted that quote suspect gave every indication

(23:10):
he would not appear in court.I heard stories from people who knew him
and said that for years, Steinback, along with a friend, would shoplift
or enlist miners to do it andreturn the stolen merchandise for cash. What
they would do, go Alwa andhis friend Tim, What they would do
is they would go into these storieslike sears. They had the expensive tools,

(23:33):
the best sheets. They would goin and steal these items and have
Kelly returned them. By Kelly returningthem, he got a percentage of whatever
he returned. And that's how theygot people. Yet, because they've done
it so many stories, and youcouldn't return things constantly, so it had
to be so many different people,to be honest, they even had me

(23:56):
doing it around Christmas song and youknow it was a team they get.
I know Gerald was arrested for shopbut if him want I'm not sure about
Tim, but they were good atit. They would take him out,
show him how to do it.And you know about him, we didn't
have all the cameras and what wehave today, so they would take him
and show them how to do it. For the nineteen ninety one incident,

(24:18):
Steinbeck was given a six month suspendedsentence and was ordered to six months of
probation. All things considered, hisknown criminal history isn't extensive. Still police
kept tabs on him. The friendI spoke with the man I've been calling
Tim felt very strongly that Steinback hadan airtight alibi for the night of Cathy's

(24:41):
death and felt police harassed his friend. He couldn't have done it. There
are too many witnesses, the girl'smother or brothers, me countless or other
people. His time was accounted fortoo much for him to have either abducted
her or held or captive, andcertainly not both. And as a matter

(25:03):
of fact, later for years hewas hounded by a small segment of the
Metro Police Department as the murder andrapist of Kathie Jones, who had somehow
gotten away, and you know,as preposterous. In fact, they pulled
my wife and Nora over once whenthey were driving the car that was in

(25:27):
Darrell's name. Two policemen. Theirnames were either Bill Rose and Larry Hunt
or Larry Rose and Bill Hunt.The first names might have been transposed,
I'm not sure, but those werethe names. They pulled them over.
It was a cold night, windowswere fogged, and they thought he was

(25:49):
in the car and they were upthere to hassle him. They came up
the windows going to start in andthere or two women in the car.
So they were taking a back bythat, and Nora put a lot of
pressure on told what in the hillare you? Why did you pull us
over? You were trying to givegol a hard time and all this sort
of thing, and of course theywere trying to talk the way out of

(26:14):
it. They went and got backin the police car and left. They
didn't have any beef, no lawlaw had been broken then run a red
light or sped or anything like that. So they got back in a police
car and left, but the sortof thing went on. He said that
he went into a public bathroom,was was using the bathroom, and a
policeman was kicking on the door andcustomed him. So, you know,

(26:37):
this crap went on for ages.It's important to note that the alibi Tim
says clear Steinback is based on theidea that Cathy was held captive for a
time and killed and dumped later.We know now she was likely in that
vacant lot from the night she vanisheduntil she was found. Earlier, I
said, I felt like Nora hidto at least that Steinbeck was considered a

(27:00):
suspect. The story Tim told aboutNorah being pulled over pretty much proved she
knew. Right. Of course,we can't ask her now. As far
as Tim goes, he assured mehe wouldn't have covered for his friend if
he believed Steinback had heard Kathy.If there was any reasonable possibility that Darrell

(27:22):
did that, well, you knowI knew it, I'd chew it,
And if I thought there was twentypercent chance said he did it, I
probably wouldn't have had anything else todo with you. Steinback remained married to

(27:42):
Nora until her death from cancer innineteen eighty nine. I don't know much
about Steinbeck's life after the early nineties, at least not from any official sources.
I spoke with a source who askednot to be named, and she
told me he struggled with a dickand during that period. She alleged that

(28:03):
Steinback bought and sold drugs and hadsome sort of involvement with sex workers.
According to the source, his primaryaddiction was to lore tab, a pain
medication that's a combination of hydrocodone anda seat amnifin, but she believed he
may have also been abusing crack inmeth. It was because of Steinback's addiction

(28:23):
issues, according to the source,that he and his friend Tim drifted apart.
She made other allegations about Steinback's characterthat weren't flattering, but the takeaway
was that he was, in herwords, weird and involved in criminal activity
beyond what we were able to findin his arrest records. In other words,

(28:45):
he seemed to be adept at notgetting caught. In another wild twist,
Daryl Steinbach himself was murdered in Februaryof two eleven. According to the
Metro Nashville Police Department, he wassitting in the front passenger seat of a
minivan parked outside of a residence inEast Nashville in the late afternoon when a

(29:08):
masked man pulled Steinback out of thecar. The assailant demanded cash and any
valuables, and Steinback fought back andwas shot in the leg. The gunmen
took off on foot. A womanand young child, who were also in
the minivan were not hurt. Steinbackdied at the hospital. The local CBS

(29:32):
affiliate news Channel five spoke to aneighbor about the incident. I heard a
pop sound. It sounded more likea twenty two gun, and then I
heard a girl screaming. Then Isaw blood out there, and I saw
all the doors were all open onthe minivan. News Channel five reported that
police at the time were investigating whetheror not Steinback knew this suspect or if

(29:56):
the whole situation had been a setup. On top of that, the anonymous
source I mentioned earlier alleged that Steinbackwas delivering crack the day he was killed.
His murder was never solved. DarrellSteinbach was sixty nine. As a
result of Steinbach's murder, police werefinally able to obtain a sample of his

(30:21):
DNA. Metro police had DNA foundon the sock on Cathy's right foot that
contained a mixture of female and maleDNA. The female DNA was likely Cathy's.
Unfortunately, because of degradation, thesamples weren't of a good enough quality
to definitively identify a source. However, they could be used to exclude sources

(30:48):
when compared to the sample from thecrime scene. It was determined that Steinbach
was not the source of the DNA. However, I need to stress that
this still does doesn't rule him outas Cathy's killer. I confirmed just that
with Metro homicide investigators Patrick Taylor andCurtis Hafley. It doesn't really egenerate him

(31:11):
from the murder. All. Itdoes egenerate that he didn't put that sample.
I think there was two tests andone was off the soco, one
was off the skate. There isthe chance that if Steinbeck was responsible for
Cathy's murder, he had an accompliceand that man was the source of the
DNA. Remember too, that somepolice officers who were on the scene in

(31:34):
nineteen sixty nine felt that there mayhave been multiple perpetrators. Another possible explanation
for that DNA finding might be poorevidence handling. DNA testing in criminal cases
didn't start until the nineteen eighties.Before that, police didn't worry about contaminating
evidence with their own DNA, sothe DNA on that SoC could have come

(31:59):
from a funeral attended a police officer, or even the medical examiner. Taylor
elaborated on this, It is anunknown individual, so it could have been
back and then they had civil Defense, which was a limited trained individual who
worked on emergency preparedness. But theyactually went out looking for the missing persons

(32:21):
because this case was actually a missingperson's before it to become a homicide,
So they were out looking for herand they're actually the ones that discovered her
body. Now, did they touchsomething and transfer DNA over easily could have
been. There's no way of usknowing truly who that individual is until we
actually get a match, and thathasn't been done. Mickey Miller put it

(32:44):
simply, we all know who touchedwhat Hapfily talked a bit more about limitations
police face because of what was andwasn't collected in nineteen sixty nine. Even
though the DNA didn't match, itwasn't NA where you would expect it to
be in a case like this,because that just wasn't collected. If it

(33:05):
was collected, it's not documented.But from everything I've seen, from all
the tests they did, you know, there was there was no what we
would call a rape kit wasn't done. So any fluids on her body from
the person who did this who werenot collected, we're not saved, we're
not swabbed. But you know,what can you do is not blood.
All they did back then was bloodtyping and you know, very limited things
like that tell if you're a secreteor not or whatever that means, you

(33:29):
know, But I mean those werethose were things that they could, you
know, test for it in theblood, but they couldn't test for it
in any other kind of body fluidslike that. So I just wasn't collected
his DNA or a sample to compare. The TBI lab has told me that
what DNA they did get from theitems from Miss Jones, that it's not

(33:51):
a large enough a sample, orit's it's too small to be interned into
the codis, into the National database, but they can a direct comparison on
a one to one So if ifthey got my DNA and tested. They
could, they could compare it oneto one, but they can't put it
in the computer to see, youknow, for a national test for whatever
their requirements are on the laws andthe things that they have for that,

(34:14):
because they're very specific on what theycan and can't do with it. That's
just one of those things. Sounless we just physically bring them, you
know, the DNA fingerprint to compareit, they can't compare it to everybody.
Two investigators Steinbach looked like a solidsuspect, but even Miller leaves open
the possibility that it could have beensomeone else, and you know, you

(34:37):
may have been somebody completely different.Investigators have to keep an open mind.
Tunnel vision can ruin cases and sometimeslands the wrong person behind bars. Friends
and family of the victim have morefreedom to make up their minds. Kathy's
family members, who are still living, most of whom weren't even born at

(35:00):
the time of her death, carrywith them the belief that Steinback killed the
child. They'd been told by Kathy'snow deceased aunt's cousins and at least one
of her brothers what kind of aman. They believed Steinback was a child
molester and a killer. But Timtold me Kathy's aunt, Linda didn't believe

(35:22):
Steinback killed her niece. Someone elsewho defended Darryll was one of the two
sisters, Linda. She defended himuntil her death. She died a few
years back, but she always defendedDarrell. She said it was a shame
that they hassled him and mistreated himand he didn't do it, and that

(35:44):
she would be one of the firstto dump on him if he did,
if there was any even possibility.I've spoken with several people who were very
close to Linda who told me thatshe absolutely believed Steinback murdered Kathy. They
couldn't say for certain if Linda believedin Steinbeck's guilt in the early days of
the investigation, but later in lifeshe thought he was the one. B

(36:07):
Jones put into perspective what the atmosphereand the family was. I was around
Linda and Fay now Linda Dodd atan earlier age, you know, but
I never heard him say Garrold wasnot responsible for Kathy's murder. Now,
they might have been less vocal whileNora was living, and I believed that

(36:29):
was a majority of why you neverheard of Kathy. Story's because Nora did
not speak of Kathy. So Ithink it was hush hush till Nora passed.
And Donna was very vocal about herstories. She said in front of
her mother, she said in frontof Linda, and they never said.
Garrold did not do that. Notone time did I ever hear him say
that. Members of Kathy's family whowere now dead felt that Steinback killed her.

(36:54):
Members of Kathy's family who were stillliving believe it. Emily friends agree.
Even Cathy's father, Bill Jones,believed that Steinback was responsible for his
daughter's murder. Here's Bie Jones again. Bill thought Darrel Stainback killed his daughter.

(37:14):
There was no question to Bill whokilled his daughter. Bill was working
at some other place at the time. They even tried to depend it on
Bill, and Bill went into thestory. He's like, I had nothing
to do with killing my daughter.He said. Cathy called him a week
before her death and told him therewas something she had to talk to him

(37:37):
about, and he was convinced itwas something to do with Daryl, and
he goes, she never made it. He stuck on that she never told
me, He goes, I nevergot to there again. I believe Darrol
did something to her. She wasgonna tell me and she did not get
the chance. And that's awful one, you know, like I'm gonna getness.

(37:59):
She died so brually. You couldtell Bill he never got over it,
and you can kill that. Whenhe spoke to Bill, he just
would not get past Kathy's yet.He would just go over and over her,
calling and saying she has something totell him, and really, and

(38:22):
he goes, I know Daryl Steinbeckkilled my daughter. You have to look
and say, why did anyone elsesay that? And what did everyone else
know that did not speak up until? Was Kathy's family right? Had Steinback
killed her? We know he hada criminal history and a troubling way of

(38:43):
making people uneasy, especially when kidswere around. We know he was dangerously
close to Kathy and that she didn'tlike him. But proving he killed Kathy,
that's a whole other beast. Andwhat about those closest to him did
they know more than they were willingto say? That? Something will explore

(39:07):
next week. Flat Rock was createdin collaboration with Spreeker Senior Production provided by
Kim Greene. Executive producers are OliviaLynde and Greg Thornton. Co produced by
Dixie Bratton, Chris Chamberlain, JamieR. Holland, Kathie Lynde, Betsy

(39:30):
Phillips, Terry Quillan and j J. Wright. Backed by Brandon Harrington.
Music by Preston Garland. Additional voicesprovided by Nicky t of Strictly Homicide and
Stephen Pacheco. Additional music provided byartists X talkeroo X and Chris Zabriskie.

(39:52):
More information and links to their workis available on flatrockpod dot com and in
the show notes. Special thank youto be Jones, Lieutenant Patrick Taylor and
Detective Curtis Hapley of the Metro NashvillePolice Department, and Chief Mickey Miller of
the Hendersonville Police Department. If youhave any information on Cathy's case, please

(40:14):
contact Metro Nashville Police Department's Cold CaseUnit at six one five eight, six
two seven three two nine. Peoplelike that, you know, are capable
of doing anything, and that's wherethe fear comes in. A babe to

(40:44):
a screw, Gerard would do hisgoal in the lady would kill anybody.
I think everybody was hearing to do. Small little town dang, we were
living with a share of killer.Well, two people killed together, they

(41:06):
form an unbreakable bond. Is saidto prove your loyalty and become a Lord
of Death, you have to takea soul and make the ultimate sacrifice.
Lords of Death is a story oftwo serial killers and people who let them
get away, and the one personwho never stopped pursuing the truth. From

(41:29):
Dayton, Ohio, I'm Thresher Banks. Lords of Death is available now an
Apple podcast. Are you getting sickand tired of hearing about Ted Bendy,

(41:57):
Laura Murray, The Golden State,West Memphis Three? Check out Strictly Homicide
Podcast, a true crime show thatdiscusses cases out of the natural state.
And even though it's Arkansas, wewon't be covering the West Memphis Three or
The Boys on the Track anytime soon, So check us out on iTunes,

(42:22):
Spotify, pod Bean, pod Coin, or basically wherever you listen to all
your favorite shows. You can alsofind us on all social media platforms,
and as mister T would say,I pity the fool that doesn't listen to Strictly Homicide