December 6, 2025 • 9 mins
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is a clip from Bloody History. You can access
the entire episode now on our website and all podcast platforms.
Schuler D seven six four four. I keep seeing Corey
Hughes express surprise at the idea of Oswald speaking little
or non Russian while in Russia and taking it as
(00:22):
evidence that Oswald didn't actually speak Russian. Corey, isn't the
whole point of sending a double slash false Oswald to
Russia that he can listen to all the Russia Russian
being spoken around him without letting on that he understands it.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I don't think so. I don't think so at all,
and so I spent a lot of time trying to
figure out where the Russian aspect of this came in
and the Russian language speaking. I would separate from the
interest in communism because we have two somewhat anomalous instances
(00:59):
of him talking communism. One in fifty three in North
Dakota with Henry Timmer right, and then we have the
Palmer McBride's stuff where Oswald was allegedly kicked out of
one of the meetings for the New Orleans Astronomers Club
by the guy who was hosting its Father because he
(01:21):
couldn't take Oswald talking about communism anymore. And that happened
in nineteen fifty eight, early fifty eight, and so those
are two the only two communist instances that you'll have
period until March of nineteen fifty nine. And in March
of nineteen fifty nine is when you start to see
Oswald talking, reading the communist books, getting the newsletter at
(01:46):
the marine base at Santa Anna. And so it's really
nobody can place Oswald as being interested in communism or
speaking Russian really until this time period, and that's when
it continues through, you know, the end of his marine
career in September of fifty nine. But the Oswald, whether
(02:06):
or not he actually spoke Russian, this is kind of
what I'm piecing together. John Armstrong had put forth a theory,
and he kind of stuck to this theory that he
believed that the two Oswalds, one of them was imported
from either a concentration camp or some Eastern Bloc country
post World War Two, brought here already speaking Russian. I
don't believe that's.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
True at all.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
There's really the evidence for that is very minimal at best,
and there's far more evidence for me that the two
Oswalds were brothers, which eliminates the possibility of a Russian speaker, right,
the zero evidence that he had any kind of accent
or anything growing up, right, So that kind of goes
out the window. And so then you get into the
statements of people who were in the Marines with him
(02:49):
at Santa Ana, and the Santa Anna Bass was a
CIA base, like straight up, it was a helicopter base
that was six miles from the El Toro main base. Okay,
so everything that goes on there is suspect. And so
you have Marines who are saying that they saw Oswald
listening to Russian records and reading Russian newspapers and then
looking up the words in the Russian English dictionary. Okay.
(03:13):
Now there has been some highly well, highly discussed speculation
regarding whether or not Oswald was sent to the language
Academy at Monterey, right, which is what San Francisco, And
so I kind of dismissed that for a long time.
But then when I really got a grip on the timeline,
what you have is Oswald returns from the Far East
(03:34):
December twenty second, and then he goes on a break
goes to Fort Worthses his brother, and then he's back
in Santa Ana by like the second week of January.
But then from there until mid March, for about two
months he's not at Santa Ana. He is sent to Yuma, Arizona,
and he sent to allegedly some kind of drills off
(03:54):
the coast of California. I forget if it was I
forget if it was north or south. But so you
have a two month period where Oswald pretty much is
unaccounted for because we don't have detailed information on what
went on in Yuma or these drills that he allegedly went.
So between mid January and mid March, we have basically
we got to they could have done anything with him.
And when you really come to understand how the marine
diaries are written and the duty rosters, they have substitute
(04:18):
information in places like all the radar stuff was top secret.
So no one is on record as having been at Biloxi,
but they're they're usually at like Casco HQ in Alexandria,
or there's a couple other places that they list when
you were out doing something they didn't want on the
official record, right, so we really don't know what Oswald
was doing for those two months between January and March
(04:39):
of fifty nine. And this is if he went to
the Monterey School at all. This is when it would
have been, And so I don't know much about that school.
From what I've heard, it's a very intense crash course
on how to speak the language, and you kind of
get out of it with a basic understanding of how
the language works and a better ability to pick it
(04:59):
up up in a quick manner. So then what do
you have From from mid March until September he's doing
all this trying to learn the Russian language by reading
the books and stuff. One thing that confuses me is
they would do these like little variety shows just to
entertain themselves in the marine barracks, and Oswald would get
up and he would speak in Russian, and people said
(05:21):
he they thought he spoke fluent Russian. But this is
from people who didn't speak Russian. So what was he
doing at those times? How well was his Russian there?
Then he gets to the Soviet Union and I haven't
done my intense study on the Soviet Union yet. I
have to finish my next book, and then I'm going
to spend probably a year on that. But from what
I've come to understand, when he goes to Russia, he
doesn't really understand. He doesn't speak Russian to any of
(05:42):
his friends there. And Marina makes the comment that she
would get cigarettes from her American friends in the Soviet
Union were American friends. What are you talking about? American friends?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Right?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
So obviously you got other English speakers. So I kind
of got thet I kind of took from that he
didn't speak much Russian, and there's really no evidence that
he's spoke much Russian. And I have a recording of
him speaking in Russia speaking English, right, And so I
don't That's kind of what I put together that they
say he's fluent when he gets back, And the only
(06:13):
thing that makes sense to me is that he possibly
went to the language school, you know, studied the Russian
language independently for a couple months, gets to Russia, and
when he hooks up at Marina, I'm kind of assuming
that that is where he kind of learned more Russian,
was more comfortable with speaking it. But then again, I
have to go back and reanalyze all the statements of
(06:33):
people who say he spoke fluent Russian, like Peter and
Paul Gregory and these guys who there's something up with
those guys, and I don't know what yet, but I'll
get to it eventually. But I have to reanalyze the
statements of people who said he spoke fluent Russian when
he got back to America, because I don't know how
true that is. And so, yeah, that's pretty much my
take on his Russian language stuff. It probably started in
(06:55):
the Marines and then continued in Soviet Union, and then
he's considered fluent when he gets back. So that's kind
of what I put to. But no, the whole purpose
of going on the Soviet Union, from what I can tell,
was just to go there because they had dozens of
false defectors and each one of them. The Russians aren't stupid,
they know what's going on. They had people on these
guys all the time. And so how many resources for
(07:15):
years did they just burn?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Right?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And I asked, part of what it was getting them
a chase their tail for years? Because there was no
appical there was no actual intelligence that ever came from
any of that. What the diagrams and sketches of the
radio factory give me a break. Who cares right, So
I mean it's to me, it's yeah, nothing ever came
to that, and so I think there's nothing supposed to
come to that. That to me seems the whole purpose
(07:39):
of the false defector program.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Let's stick with this. It's a good segue. This is
from sid Hatfield. I'll agree with Corey's assessment of Armstrong.
John has done tremendous work which helps explain so many
of the discrepancies that we've been aware of throughout the years.
But I do not agree with a number of Armstrong's
conclusions in quite a few areas. May Brussel also felt
that Oswalt's face defection to the Soviet Union when operational
(08:02):
in order to bring Marina, who she felt must have
been Brussel, who Brussel felt must have been related to
someone in Dallas's white Russian community, to the United States
talking to Marina. The fact that Marina was contacted by
another apparent American agent whose name I forgot right around
the time that she met Oswald lends credence to that suspicion.
I don't know if she's referring to Rob Robert webs Okay.
(08:25):
I also think that the fact that Oswald relocated to
Minsk and spent time there working for the Zeyger family,
who later immigrated to Argentina, where a number of Nazis
are known to have fled to after World War Two.
Makes me believe that Oswald mingled with the fascist white
Russian Nazi while in the Soviet Union, a net network
of those individuals. It's telling that Oswald and Marina were
(08:46):
greeted by Spots t. Rackin of the World Anti Communist
League upon their arrival back to the US. The idea
that Oswald was in contact with a fascist network of
Gallon agents inside of the Soviet Union never occurred to
John Arms. But then he's not an expert on the
twentieth century history of Eastern Europe. You want to comment
on any of that.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, these are all excellent points. Now, Honestly, I don't
think that Oswald was ever in the loop on understanding
what was going on at a high level. I don't
think that he was. He might have. He was probably
manipulated and told to do things, but whether he knew
(09:28):
why he was doing them or whatever, doesn't I don't
really think so. Well, the more I come to understand Oswald,
I feel like his whole life. He was kind of manipulated,
used for various purposes, and really was never in on
the joke, right. I think that he was just kind
of told to do this and that without really necessarily knowing.
(09:48):
Why did you
This is a clip from Bloody History. You can access
the entire episode now on our website and all podcast platforms.
Schuler D seven six four four. I keep seeing Corey
Hughes express surprise at the idea of Oswald speaking little
or non Russian while in Russia and taking it as
(00:22):
evidence that Oswald didn't actually speak Russian. Corey, isn't the
whole point of sending a double slash false Oswald to
Russia that he can listen to all the Russia Russian
being spoken around him without letting on that he understands it.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I don't think so. I don't think so at all,
and so I spent a lot of time trying to
figure out where the Russian aspect of this came in
and the Russian language speaking. I would separate from the
interest in communism because we have two somewhat anomalous instances
(00:59):
of him talking communism. One in fifty three in North
Dakota with Henry Timmer right, and then we have the
Palmer McBride's stuff where Oswald was allegedly kicked out of
one of the meetings for the New Orleans Astronomers Club
by the guy who was hosting its Father because he
(01:21):
couldn't take Oswald talking about communism anymore. And that happened
in nineteen fifty eight, early fifty eight, and so those
are two the only two communist instances that you'll have
period until March of nineteen fifty nine. And in March
of nineteen fifty nine is when you start to see
Oswald talking, reading the communist books, getting the newsletter at
(01:46):
the marine base at Santa Anna. And so it's really
nobody can place Oswald as being interested in communism or
speaking Russian really until this time period, and that's when
it continues through, you know, the end of his marine
career in September of fifty nine. But the Oswald, whether
(02:06):
or not he actually spoke Russian, this is kind of
what I'm piecing together. John Armstrong had put forth a theory,
and he kind of stuck to this theory that he
believed that the two Oswalds, one of them was imported
from either a concentration camp or some Eastern Bloc country
post World War Two, brought here already speaking Russian. I
don't believe that's.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
True at all.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
There's really the evidence for that is very minimal at best,
and there's far more evidence for me that the two
Oswalds were brothers, which eliminates the possibility of a Russian speaker, right,
the zero evidence that he had any kind of accent
or anything growing up, right, So that kind of goes
out the window. And so then you get into the
statements of people who were in the Marines with him
(02:49):
at Santa Ana, and the Santa Anna Bass was a
CIA base, like straight up, it was a helicopter base
that was six miles from the El Toro main base. Okay,
so everything that goes on there is suspect. And so
you have Marines who are saying that they saw Oswald
listening to Russian records and reading Russian newspapers and then
looking up the words in the Russian English dictionary. Okay.
(03:13):
Now there has been some highly well, highly discussed speculation
regarding whether or not Oswald was sent to the language
Academy at Monterey, right, which is what San Francisco, And
so I kind of dismissed that for a long time.
But then when I really got a grip on the timeline,
what you have is Oswald returns from the Far East
(03:34):
December twenty second, and then he goes on a break
goes to Fort Worthses his brother, and then he's back
in Santa Ana by like the second week of January.
But then from there until mid March, for about two
months he's not at Santa Ana. He is sent to Yuma, Arizona,
and he sent to allegedly some kind of drills off
(03:54):
the coast of California. I forget if it was I
forget if it was north or south. But so you
have a two month period where Oswald pretty much is
unaccounted for because we don't have detailed information on what
went on in Yuma or these drills that he allegedly went.
So between mid January and mid March, we have basically
we got to they could have done anything with him.
And when you really come to understand how the marine
diaries are written and the duty rosters, they have substitute
(04:18):
information in places like all the radar stuff was top secret.
So no one is on record as having been at Biloxi,
but they're they're usually at like Casco HQ in Alexandria,
or there's a couple other places that they list when
you were out doing something they didn't want on the
official record, right, so we really don't know what Oswald
was doing for those two months between January and March
(04:39):
of fifty nine. And this is if he went to
the Monterey School at all. This is when it would
have been, And so I don't know much about that school.
From what I've heard, it's a very intense crash course
on how to speak the language, and you kind of
get out of it with a basic understanding of how
the language works and a better ability to pick it
(04:59):
up up in a quick manner. So then what do
you have From from mid March until September he's doing
all this trying to learn the Russian language by reading
the books and stuff. One thing that confuses me is
they would do these like little variety shows just to
entertain themselves in the marine barracks, and Oswald would get
up and he would speak in Russian, and people said
(05:21):
he they thought he spoke fluent Russian. But this is
from people who didn't speak Russian. So what was he
doing at those times? How well was his Russian there?
Then he gets to the Soviet Union and I haven't
done my intense study on the Soviet Union yet. I
have to finish my next book, and then I'm going
to spend probably a year on that. But from what
I've come to understand, when he goes to Russia, he
doesn't really understand. He doesn't speak Russian to any of
(05:42):
his friends there. And Marina makes the comment that she
would get cigarettes from her American friends in the Soviet
Union were American friends. What are you talking about? American friends?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Right?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
So obviously you got other English speakers. So I kind
of got thet I kind of took from that he
didn't speak much Russian, and there's really no evidence that
he's spoke much Russian. And I have a recording of
him speaking in Russia speaking English, right, And so I
don't That's kind of what I put together that they
say he's fluent when he gets back, And the only
(06:13):
thing that makes sense to me is that he possibly
went to the language school, you know, studied the Russian
language independently for a couple months, gets to Russia, and
when he hooks up at Marina, I'm kind of assuming
that that is where he kind of learned more Russian,
was more comfortable with speaking it. But then again, I
have to go back and reanalyze all the statements of
(06:33):
people who say he spoke fluent Russian, like Peter and
Paul Gregory and these guys who there's something up with
those guys, and I don't know what yet, but I'll
get to it eventually. But I have to reanalyze the
statements of people who said he spoke fluent Russian when
he got back to America, because I don't know how
true that is. And so, yeah, that's pretty much my
take on his Russian language stuff. It probably started in
(06:55):
the Marines and then continued in Soviet Union, and then
he's considered fluent when he gets back. So that's kind
of what I put to. But no, the whole purpose
of going on the Soviet Union, from what I can tell,
was just to go there because they had dozens of
false defectors and each one of them. The Russians aren't stupid,
they know what's going on. They had people on these
guys all the time. And so how many resources for
(07:15):
years did they just burn?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Right?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And I asked, part of what it was getting them
a chase their tail for years? Because there was no
appical there was no actual intelligence that ever came from
any of that. What the diagrams and sketches of the
radio factory give me a break. Who cares right, So
I mean it's to me, it's yeah, nothing ever came
to that, and so I think there's nothing supposed to
come to that. That to me seems the whole purpose
(07:39):
of the false defector program.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Let's stick with this. It's a good segue. This is
from sid Hatfield. I'll agree with Corey's assessment of Armstrong.
John has done tremendous work which helps explain so many
of the discrepancies that we've been aware of throughout the years.
But I do not agree with a number of Armstrong's
conclusions in quite a few areas. May Brussel also felt
that Oswalt's face defection to the Soviet Union when operational
(08:02):
in order to bring Marina, who she felt must have
been Brussel, who Brussel felt must have been related to
someone in Dallas's white Russian community, to the United States
talking to Marina. The fact that Marina was contacted by
another apparent American agent whose name I forgot right around
the time that she met Oswald lends credence to that suspicion.
I don't know if she's referring to Rob Robert webs Okay.
(08:25):
I also think that the fact that Oswald relocated to
Minsk and spent time there working for the Zeyger family,
who later immigrated to Argentina, where a number of Nazis
are known to have fled to after World War Two.
Makes me believe that Oswald mingled with the fascist white
Russian Nazi while in the Soviet Union, a net network
of those individuals. It's telling that Oswald and Marina were
(08:46):
greeted by Spots t. Rackin of the World Anti Communist
League upon their arrival back to the US. The idea
that Oswald was in contact with a fascist network of
Gallon agents inside of the Soviet Union never occurred to
John Arms. But then he's not an expert on the
twentieth century history of Eastern Europe. You want to comment
on any of that.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, these are all excellent points. Now, Honestly, I don't
think that Oswald was ever in the loop on understanding
what was going on at a high level. I don't
think that he was. He might have. He was probably
manipulated and told to do things, but whether he knew
(09:28):
why he was doing them or whatever, doesn't I don't
really think so. Well, the more I come to understand Oswald,
I feel like his whole life. He was kind of manipulated,
used for various purposes, and really was never in on
the joke, right. I think that he was just kind
of told to do this and that without really necessarily knowing.
(09:48):
Why did you
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