Chris Mathieu Interviewed On Strange Mosaic With Emily Moyer

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, everybody, welcome back. I'm Emily Moyer. We have a
very exciting show today.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
A gentleman that I just met recently when I was
on his show, but I've been tracking for a while
is here. He is the host of Forbidden Knowledge News,
runs the Forbidden Knowledge News Network and is the creator
of the documentaries A Cult Louisiana and the brand new
Doors of Perception. Chris Matthew, Welcome to Strange Mosaic. Nice
to see you, my friend.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hey, Emily, thank you so much for having me. Looking
forward to it all rays ready to get weird.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
No, we do weird here. That's kind of what I
specialize it.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
So you know, I first, obviously like I've been kind
of aware of you for a while, partly because other
people who are on your network are people who I've
done shows with or who've.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Been on my shows.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
And then like last year, maybe maybe it was two
years ago now, but I think it was last year,
my really good friends from the Melt had you on,
and you guys were talking a lot lot about your
experiences with psychedelics, and much of what you had to
say really resonated with me for how I view the experience.

(01:10):
And then when I was getting ready to go on
your show, I sort of familiarized myself with some of
your other stuff, and I kind of came to this
interesting recognition that though you and I are like personally
quite different and maybe what we focus on is a
little bit different, the years of looking at this stuff
have brought us to an understanding that I actually feel

(01:31):
like your perspective on things and my perspective on things
may be more similar than almost what I have with
anyone else, even those who I have maybe more topical
interests or whatever in common with. So I enjoyed speaking
with you when I was on your show, and I'm
looking forward to digging into that sort of resonance today.

(01:51):
I did watch your new documentary Doors of Perception last week,
and I do want to spend a good amount of
time talking about this today. But really, can you like
so my audience can get to know you in case
they don't. Sometimes when we run in different circles, there
can be people out there existing in the ecosystem for
a long time that we're just not aware of. So

(02:12):
who are you? Where do you come from? What's the plan?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Where are you going? All that jazz?

Speaker 3 (02:17):
All right? Well, thank you again for having me. I
am Chris Matthew. I am host and producer of the
Forbidden Knowledge News podcast and producer and director of the
Forbidden documentary series which you mentioned those two films earlier
call Louisian Indoors of Perception. Never in my life planned
on being a filmmaker. That just came out of some

(02:41):
very profound spiritual experiences and as well as a long
time kind of absorbing this kind of information and new understandings,
and it just inspired me to do so. But mainly
I do this podcast six days a week, and I
have some of the same topics that you cover in

(03:03):
so many of the same guests, and we do have crossovers.
I focus a lot on the paranormal, ufology conspiratorial type
of realms, but I really go everywhere and anywhere, and
I'm just blessed to be able to do this on
a daily basis, and like I said, talk about weird
stuff and make a living from it. So thank you

(03:26):
again for having me.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
What's kind of your origin story? How did you go?

Speaker 2 (03:31):
I mean, for me, while I've always been like weird
and sort of on the fringe of lots of stuff,
like there was a very specific sort of series of
events that dislodged me from any attachment to normal reality
and entrenched me completely in whatever the fuck is that

(03:51):
we're in.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
What was that for you?

Speaker 3 (03:54):
For me, it was very interesting. It really started about
twenty twelve and around that time period. That's so funny.
So many people have that same time period that they
kind of started to wake up. But I was going
through a bad divorce. I was depressed. I had no
idea what direction my life was going to go, even

(04:14):
though I had a comfortable career as a salesman and
at a corporate job, you know, doing bullshit sales, and
I hated that job. Like I was, you know, making
good money, but I dreaded waking up in the morning
and having to go do this nonsensical job every day.
And I was just looking for something else in my
life at the time. I had no spiritual path. I

(04:36):
was for the longest time sex, drugs and rock and roll,
and I got married to the wrong woman and that
led to pharmaceuticals and rock and roll and just a
very depressed lifestyle. Wasn't eating right, wasn't living right on
all kinds of pharmaceuticals, just trying to get By went
through this divorce, and that kicked me awake because I

(04:57):
just knew I had to find something as a child.
As a young child, I was always into this weird
stuff paranormal and magic and mysticism, and I loved all
this stuff. And I also grew up in a Catholic
home and was scared out of the Catholic Church at
a very young age just because of the crazy dogmen

(05:19):
everything that surrounds that. But I decided that I'm just
going to start diving back into things that make me
happy and passionate. So I started doing back in twenty twelve.
YouTube was a great place to start if you were
looking for because they had access to all these great
conspiracies and shows and information. It wasn't censored yet. So

(05:40):
I started there and that led me to books that
I wanted to read and people that I wanted to
talk to. And I just started really getting passionate about
these alternative topics that we cover. And I started writing
a blog on Facebook called Forbidden Knowledge News, and people
started following it. I got a few thousand followers very
early started growing and I thought, you know, I don't

(06:03):
know enough about any of this stuff for you people
to be listening to me. I got to start talking
to other people. So I started reaching out to some
of my favorite authors and researchers and people that I
was really into, and amazingly enough, they agreed to come
on this new show that I started on YouTube call
Forbidden Knowledge News. It was an interview based show. I
was also in the early days covering these little kind

(06:27):
of apocalyptic news stories that were happening around the world.
I was really I started out in deep into the
world is going to end any day soon. I was
very dark into that for a while, but that shifted
once I got a better understanding of everything and I

(06:47):
started having these wonderful guests on the show, and it
was just a YouTube channel. One day I had the
amazing Charlie Robinson on and he suggested that I turned
my show into a podcast. He hooked me up with
my now producer, Corey Hughes, who is the author of
a couple of great JFK books, and we started this
network just with my podcast to start out with. And

(07:12):
that's where it all really started. In twenty fifteen or sixteen,
that's when the podcast came to fruition. But the career
kind of flourished in a different way because it was
just a fun hobby at the time. We weren't I
wasn't making any money, had no idea how to turn
this into a career of any type. So that is
a kind of different transition story if you want to

(07:33):
get into that. It's kind of a long story, but
we can go there if you'd like. It's basically my
first which you would call spiritual contact experience, which led
me ultimately where I'm at now.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Well, if you don't mind share a little bit of
that and then oh yeah, enough, we can give them.
We can get into I think that you know, doors
of perception, which is probably a reflection of you know,
that early experience and then all you've learned since then
when you sort of look back at it, right, So.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yes, yes, So it was early twenty twenty, the whole
COVID Fiesco hadn't really kicked in yet. I was again
going through a bad breakup. I had this cycle of
getting into a very toxic relationships, you could say, So

(08:23):
this was another one going through a bad breakup, and
I was doing the show for a while and it
was going well. It was picking up a large audience,
but I had still had no idea how to translate
that into I can make a living off of this,
so it never even crossed my mind to do so.
I was still at my corporate job and doing this,

(08:44):
you know, two three times a week when I would
come home as a hobby, and I was you know,
I really was passionate about it. I loved it. It
consumed me, but I still had to wake up every
day and go into this BS job so I could survive.
One day, I come home and, like I said, I'm
just pissed off at the world at this time because
I don't know where to go. I have still no
spiritual foundation. I'm looking into all these weird things but

(09:07):
no just no spiritual connection at all. And I had
been talking to people about meditations, so I'm like, you know,
this is why not just give it a shot? And
I had been trying for a while with no success
until this one evening in twenty twenty when I get
home and I don't know if this is connected in
any way, but I add this to my story because

(09:28):
it feels like it is. I was talking to my
neighbor in my front yard and I look up at
the sky and there's these like three bright orange flames
like shooting up in the sky and it looks like
a UFO or so, I don't know, I have no
idea what it is. And then it all of a
sudden just bloot blinks out of existence. And I kind
of filed that as, oh, that's interesting, maybe a UFO,

(09:49):
maybe not. But a few minutes later I go into
I start to try my meditation, and I took some
advice from people, put on four thirty two hrtz tones
and different breathing techniques, and I was really able to
get into this extreme state of peace and quiet and stillness.

(10:10):
And I was in that for I don't know how long.
I kind of lost track of time, and all of
a sudden, you know, this kind of blue light came
into my subconscious peripheral vision and got brighter and brighter,
and as it was getting brighter and brighter, I felt
this immense love like I'd never ever felt before. It

(10:31):
was like, you know, I thought I knew what love
felt like from my parents and you know, maybe girlfriends,
but this was this was incredibly powerful. It felt like
a love drug or something. I was just beaming and
it was amazing and whatever this was It spoke in
my mind. It said, hey, Chris, it's time for us
to talk. Are you ready? And I'm like, what the fuck?

(10:55):
I freak out, like I revert to childhood dogma. I
asked this. I was like, in Jesus Christ, name are
you a demon? And it immediately has this like laughter
and reassurance and love just coming at me, and it's like, yes,
it's all good. Calm down, and it's like I've been

(11:15):
with you your whole life. We need to talk. And
I was like, I was like, what are you? Who
are He's like, just calm down, let's talk first. So
I said, okay, you have at least a name, and
it said yeah, but you don't. You wouldn't be able
to pronounce it. Call me whatever you want. I said,
all right, I'll call you Layered because my cousin when

(11:35):
I was growing up was named Laired and that popped
into my head. I thought it was a cool name.
So hey, you're Layered. The beings like all right, cool.
So it proceeds to tell me that I need to
make some very profound changes in my life, need to
start healing childhood trauma, that I need to start looking
into certain topics that would leave me in a certain direction,

(12:00):
and also that there was some the world was about
to change in a very profound way. Again, this is
early twenty twenty, before the whole COVID thing really popped off,
and it said you need to prepare yourself and it
would recommend getting more of a stronger spiritual connection. But first,
in order to do that, I have to heal some
major trauma. I have to stop getting in toxic relationships,

(12:23):
like all these things that I didn't want to hear
at the time. I'm like, I thought I was fine.
I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm good? But
this voice, you know, and I knew deep down that
it was right, and it kept just going over these
very important things that I can do to heal myself.
One of the things, oddly enough, this voice is weird.

(12:44):
This incarnate voice that showed up says you should do
psilocybin to help with your healing of your trauma. It
also adds ease of access to conversations with me. And
I'm like, okay, So at this point, I have no
idea what this is. I don't know if it's an alien.
I have an understanding of what it is now, and

(13:05):
at the time, you know, I still wasn't able to
get this thing to tell me what it was. The
conversation lasted two hours. It was mainly just telling me
about things that I really needed to focus on in
my life in order to heal, to get us better
spiritual connection. And after that vo it just kind of
faded away. After a while, I couldn't connect with it anymore.

(13:29):
And I found it very strange that it mentioned psychedelics
because the last time I had done magic mushrooms, I
was a teenager and it was terrifying and I would
never have wanted to go back to that experience because
that only time I did it, it scared the shit
out of me, and I'm like, why would Why would
I do that again? So that kind of resonated with

(13:50):
me a little bit. Found it very strange, And the
main message before the connection ended was you need to
quit your job and do what you're doing what I'm doing.
Do with the show. It's like, yeah, do what you're doing,
quit your job immediately, and I'm like, co no, but
thank you for the suggestion. So a few days went

(14:12):
by after this and I'm talking to people that I
had had on my show, and I'm trying to figure
out what this was, What's going on. If I just
had an acid flashback or whatever. Because I did do
a lot of acid as a teenager, that was something
that it was into. But so a few days go
by and I'm thinking, you know what this, I have
to try and do this again. I have to get
back in touch with this. Somehow, I try and try,

(14:35):
and I think it was like on the fifth day,
something came over me and said, get in water and
try again.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
And I did.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
I got in the bathtub, I put on the tones,
went into a meditative state, and there the voice comes
back with the blue light and it was layered and
it was the same familiar feeling. It proceeded to walk
me through this childhood traumatic memory that I had, and
was kind of letting me know, you need to kind

(15:04):
of be aware of some of these things and you
need to remember them in order to get past them,
and you need, you know, to heal your inner child
all these you know, things that we do whenever we
understand what you know, these what it means to have
to do this healing stuff in order to progress, you know, spiritually.

(15:24):
So I was able to remember this very traumatic childhood
memory was very profound. It's a very emotional moment. And
this is when it got really weird. I could open
my eyes and I was in my bathroom and everything
was there. But when I closed my eyes, the environment

(15:47):
was uniform. I could look around and I was on
a spaceship, like, no, a legit spaceship. And they had
these like atheric translucent beings that looked like the looked
like the little holographs on Star Wars when they would
show up, but they were green colored, and they had
these robes, and they were all these animal human hybrid

(16:10):
looking beings, like tote of animals, but they were kind
of more humanoid in a sense because they were standing
on two legs and they had robes, and they were
just beaming these amazing feelings of love to me. And
this little frog dude, well not little, he was kind
of a big frog dude. And he walks up and

(16:31):
he proceeds to like again, being these feelings of love
and ask me if I am ready to accept my
I always try to remember exactly how he said this.
I don't remember exactly what it was, but it's something
along the lines of if I'm ready to step into

(16:51):
my mission that I agreed to when I incarnated in
this reality, and it was such an emotional thing that
I just connected with and I was like, yes, I'm
I was so excited. I was crying, and whatever these
etheric beings were, they were just, you know, so happy
that I accepted and it felt like they were applauding me.

(17:12):
That experience eventually faded, and it was so profound, it
was so powerful that I knew there was something to this.
I knew whatever I experienced was was there was something
real about it. I couldn't deny it, you know, I
had connected with something. So within six months, I take
out my four to zoe K and I quit my job.

(17:32):
I was in South Louisiana at the time, which I
really wasn't happy there, so move out to Colorado. Always
wanted to go out to the mountains start throwing myself
into this. Terrifying because we didn't know how long my
four rohwin K was gonna last. I didn't know, you know,
if I was going to be able to make this
a success or won everything or anything like that. So

(17:53):
a few months go by and it was terrifying. We
were losing money, but then one day we look at
our revenue and it's like, holy shit, we can pay
rent this month. And then you know, a couple of
months go by and we can pay rent and get
a hamburger this month. It's quite amazing. So it just
it kept getting better and better, and I since I
moved to Colorado. I didn't even put the connection together

(18:15):
at the time, but magic mushrooms are legal to grow here,
and so I started started my little farm, and that
is when my psilocybin experiences started, which I'm sure we'll
get into a little later. Some wild stuff happened there,
but that is when the real journey began. I hadn't
gotten into the film stuff yet. I was inspired later

(18:36):
through psychedelics to do the films, and yeah, that's where
that's where I was at. We just started to become
a little successful and it took off from there.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Super interesting.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
So you said a couple of things that like hit
a few specific marks for me as a familiar to
some of my own experiences, but be things that I
hear from other people who you know, have gone through
some of these experiences and then end up developing, you know,
kind of a similar perspective on what all of this is.
And so from just from my point of view, just

(19:11):
my opinion is it is no doubt connected that whatever
you saw in the sky is what altered your ability
to get into a more profound, meditative sche right. Because
while there's lots of different opinions out there about what
the UFO phenomenon is, are they man made? Are they alien?

(19:31):
Are they interdimensional? Are they biological? Are they technological?

Speaker 1 (19:35):
The thing that.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
I know for sure with any ar all of that,
I mean, I'm one of those people who's like, it's
a both and it doesn't ever. It's not ever either
or for me that it is. It is a frequency
and resonance based phenomena, right, And so what it feels
like is just though you caught it for a second,
like it's almost like, I don't mean this in the

(19:58):
negative sense of the word, but it's almost like being
hit with the directed energy weapon.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
You had your right to be adjusted, right, and then.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
You were able to go into a headspace that you
were sort of made aware of that transition into that
space by this blue light.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
And if you talk to people who have.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Had experiences in underground bases or what some people refer
to as like cloning centers, there's often a blue light involved.
If you talk to people who feel that they've had
interaction with some sort of plasma entity or some sort
of light being, there's also a blue light often involved.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
One of the.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Things I've come I've had a lot of experience with
blue lights. And one thing that started happening for me
when I moved to Austin the most recent time, which
was in twenty twenty one, was that I started seeing
these interesting blue lights that would be like directly in
front of my face.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
They were always at eye level. It wasn't like off
to the corner or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
They were always did be frustrate in front of me,
and as soon as my attention locked on it, it
would disappear. And I cannot even remember the exact way
to say the term, but it has something to do
with like the a light photon, or like something about
something that's coming in at a specific speed of light
and that some of these other intelligences that are not

(21:23):
at embodies that that might be how they would sort
of like make themselves known, is like they right.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
Somebody was talking about the red shift and blue shifts
the other day that the higher dimension will have to
red shift down to us and we have to blue shift,
or maybe it's the opposite, but it really kind of
connects with what you're saying there, right.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
There's there's a couple of different ways to see it,
and it depends on whether you see things as more
like dimensional or more temporal, like exactly the mechanics of it.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Also, like for me, along with.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
The phenomena of these blue lights kind of things, I
would get these weird things that I refer to as
like feather orbs. Like there would be like, particularly when
I was in this one apartment, there'd be all these
like feathers that would come at like not floating like
you would normally some a feather.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
They'd like come in at some really crazy angle with
a lot of speed or whatever.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Right, And when I would look down at the floor,
there was no feathers on the floor, So like, what
were they?

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Right?

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Like for one period of time, you could see them
in almost all of my shows. Now there's like an
occasional one. But the studio I'm in now doesn't have
it's completely closed off. There's no external light coming and
I have a feeling that these beings like some external
light not just the completely.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Closed off sort of studio space.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
But it seems like to me when I read, like
read Robert Temple's book The New Science of Heaven, which
is all about plasma, that it's likely that the you know,
we have this sort of full environment around us that
we can't normally see, but specifically, like if you can

(23:01):
start to be able to see things that sort of
come in at a certain angle, right like, and you
start to notice this kind of thing, and that might
be some of these intelligences that don't have bodies in
the way that we think think of them trying to
do something to sort of catch our attention, and like
certain kind of corners with certain kind of angles, they

(23:21):
seem to be happening more in rooms that have that
or in areas around that. So it makes sense to
me on some level that that would be I mean,
it's got to be weird, like we are not noticing
someone else's there, but they can see us all the
time or something like that. Right, It's kind of these
one of these weird situations that humans find themselves in.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
And they do have sort of like a.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Plasma sheath kind of membranes or something, but it's not
like what we think of as like a physical body
that is easy to notice in space. So the thing
with the blue light and the UFO my attention for sure,
and it was it's a frequency adjust right, And then
you were able to sort of get into this space

(24:07):
and stay in this space for a period of time.
And then when you told me that they recommended psilocybin,
I'm coming to understand that silocybin does. And we can
get into this more in the second hour, for sure.
But what it's really good at is mediating a conversation
between someone or something here and someone or something there.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
I don't know if it's.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
That it provides a little extra energy to sort of
carry sort of information across this like membrane a little bit,
or if it has to do with the amplification of
our senses, like our hearing gets adjusted and our visual
acuity gets adjusted, which is kind of similar to having
a frequency adjust from the outside. So it's like tuned

(24:56):
you into that band on the radio where now you
can sort of transmit messages and hear them back or whatever.
It is, right, And it's not like an audio or
a visual message per se. It's informational, but it has
to do with the attunement of our eyes and our ears.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
So that was interesting. And then what you said about
the bathtub, right, Like.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
For some reason, water, I always have my best ideas
either in the shower, in the bathtub or like weirdly
like on the toilet, right, which also is sort of
this interesting water and vortex kind of scenario.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
But for me, I've had all kinds of psychedelic experiences.
The most intense psychedelic visuals I ever have are in
the bathtub.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
And like since that was little, like when I'm in
the shower or the bath I'll like rub my eyes
a little bit, and I have a level of intense
visuals that I've not seen on psychedelics and that I've
not seen in the visual Like I go to a
lot of undergroundhouse parties techno music, and the ones I

(26:02):
go to are like the height of audio and visual production,
and like the kind of visual shows they have that
include lasers and screen mapping and literally like retinal like
it's it's it's you'd be blown away. Some of the
stuff that I've seen. None of it matches up a
to the most intense psychedelic visions, but definitely not to
these visuals in the bathtub. They're so intense that I

(26:25):
can't stay there for very long because it becomes it's
an amount of light and saturation and definition that is
hard to stay.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Focused on for a bit.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
But when I look at it, what it really looks
like is very very Masonic in terms of the floor,
the setup, and some of the.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Characters.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's much more futuristic looking than when we look at
like Masonic art. But if you think about it, maybe
you know a couple thousand years ago, when people first
started to try and create groups and societies or works
around these types of states, they didn't have the technology
to create hyper real looking things, so they were just

(27:10):
trying to with the tools they had create a replica
of the thing that they saw quickly. Because again it's intense,
it's hard to stay there. But when I look at them,
it looks like super hyperreal, like super otherworldly. But it
has all of the elements of what I think of
as Masonic architecture or art, or the Masonic setup or

(27:34):
the characters or whatever it is, Like I call it
psychedelic masonry, right, and so like whatever that experience is
that being submerged and then sort of finding a space
to connect is one.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Of the.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Probably like I don't know if they're saying oldest, but
the most traveled paths of information transfer, right, like like
you know, throughout time.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
And so that's all like super interesting. I have a
question about layered, right.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
When I have had some of these conversations, Like I've
never had a two hour conversation like with someone that
I perceived as being a separate being. I've had all
night long conversations with what felt like a version of
myself that exists outside of time, right, that is sort

(28:39):
of like out of the time stream.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
But that's what That's what I've come to understand layered
is by higher self. Yes, okay, that connection yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Right, And and part of how I've understood it over
time is like you get to know the personality and
the characteristics, looking for whether there's deceit or trickery or
like promising you things that aren't. And my experience with
all of this is like no, mostly it's just gives
me a word or two, a few words sometimes to

(29:11):
inspire my search or like if I'm really really struggling
or suffering, like tell me a thing that either I
wouldn't think of or that I know deep down, but
like I don't want to do because it's scarier. It
means giving some up something.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
But there's never been like some luring me into a situation,
right that, Like people warn you about entities or demons
or whatever it is, There's never been any any of
that with this particular sort of situation or set up.
So it sounds to me like that it's you know

(29:48):
that this is the classic initiation on some level. It's
a decentralized process for those who choose to pursue it
by themselves instead, yeah, in a group, you know, Like
I had a girl on my show recently who has
written a book about the underground dance music scene as
a decentralized mystery school that allows someone to initiate themselves, right,

(30:13):
and we had an interesting conversation around that. But the
same can be said for the pursuit of this information
that we're doing that we've been doing, or the looking
at you know, ones developing a long term sort of
back and forth relationship with a psychedelic substance or whatever
it is. So sounds like you you know, you were initiated,

(30:36):
you know, at the pace that you were ready under
the circumstances.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
That you could accept it and.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Do it responsibly, not like running around feeling like you
had to do something you know that involved everyone else
with your newfound knowledge, right, which is tempting for some people. Right,
I know something, you don't know, what can I do
with it? Intead of just like I'm gonna wait until
I even know what's going on here before I decide
if there is something to do with it, right, So

(31:08):
very interesting. Obviously this experience I have not seen occult Louisiana,
but I'm intrigued now, so maybe sometime I'll check it out.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
We can talk about that.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
I had one wild week in New Orleans once that.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
Right, that I'd love to try and understand sometime.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
But I did watch Doors of Perception, and it's obviously
like this is, you know, the next step for you
and sort of taking those experiences outside and trying to
affect more people with that. Why did you decide to
do the documentary? And then how did you sort of decide?
You know, there's like three or four main topics you
focused on in there. The one that sort of piqued

(31:49):
my interest the most, which is another commonality between you
and I is the part about sleep paralysis, right, but
sort of what how did you decide to do this?
How did you decide what to focus on? And then
let's get into it a little bit.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
So it was inspired through a series of psychedelic experiences,
which we'll probably get into a little later, because my
experiences were very all encompassing, extremely visionary. I would have
out of body experiences. I would have these extremely profound,

(32:24):
intertwined experiences where this reality would just get sucked into
another and I would be in a different just very
profound things that would happen. But we'll get into that
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
But we'll do mushroom Mystery School on.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
The Yeah, the mushrooms. But those experiences really inspired me
to do something more. I was, you know, passionate about
this show, of course, but I always loved film. I
always loved a visual presentation of information and in a
very entertaining way. So I decided to try and do

(32:59):
it myself. And I just again wanted to do it
my way, wanted to introduce, you know, a new way
of doing it. Had no expectations on you know, superquality
or it's extremely low budget film. I the first film
I called Louisiana was done mainly so I could see
if I could do something like this, and it was
very experimental. It involved a lot of my friends and

(33:21):
colleagues and this one as well a lot of people
guests that I've had over the years on my show
that some of the information had resonated with me, and
I wanted to provide a variety of perspectives on topics
like near death experiences, alien contact, synchronicities, dreams. I took
a trip out to Skinwalker Ranch for this for this film,

(33:45):
and I stayed at my buddy Ryan Burns. We added
that in because there's a concentration of a lot of
crossover activity as I call it, at places like Skinwalker
Ranch that I thought maybe would help us provide answers
to this, but unfortunately, it just really let me know
that military exotic technology is being tested out there out

(34:07):
the wazoo, and you can't believe anything that your eyes
are showing you. It's probably a lot of exotic deception
out there. But that's a different story altogether. And yeah,
I got all these wonderful people together and I decided
to try and put together connections between these experiences because

(34:27):
I believe they are profoundly connected, and the most important
part of that is how much our perception affects the
nature of these experiences. Where we're at emotionally, mentally, our
understanding of the world, our understanding of spiritual concepts, will
have a heavy effect on paranormal encounters, contact experiences, contact
and dreams, everything mystical and supernatural that we could experience.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Basically, Yeah, the couple of things.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
First of all, that the part at Skinwalker Ranch is
not something that like I've spent a super a lot
of time looking into or I mean, obviously I'm aware
of it, and I've heard, I've seen some stuff, but like,
I actually was more intrigued with that part of the
documentary than if someone had said, oh, there's a part
about it skin walk around there, I would have been like,
but actually I found it interesting. I found the gentleman interesting.

(35:20):
And but what you said about all it does is
let me know that there's a like, so much military
tech going on that we can't be sure.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
And you know, I didn't really find out about to
the extent of what I said about the military stuff
till long after I had completed the film and I
went back to Ryan. He gave me more information about things.
He kind of opened up more than he did before,
as well as some of the experiences I look back
at made more sense after I had a few guests

(35:52):
come on and tell me about their understanding of the
weaponization of the paranormal At places like skin Walker Ranch.
I'll tell you one thing, we were surrounded by black
ops teams. The whole time we saw shadows of military personnel.
They were shining lasers at us. Ryan said that no
matter who is out there, you're gonna be watched, You're

(36:13):
gonna be surveyed by these military groups. Whoever, these shady
military groups are a lot of the UFOs that we
saw were experimental craft. There's no way to tell the difference.
And Ryan claims that he's even seen what he calls
nanotechnology that can shift into creatures, and one of these
creatures attacked one of his friends, and it's military technology.

(36:36):
It's not, you know, anything truly supernatch. It's something that
they've developed, and that is terrifying to me.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
So one of the things that I've noticed is that
that there's all that military tech there does not negate
the fact that there's also something that is correct that
is correct, Terry, Right, So I grew up and for
people who listen to show, they're probably tired of hearing this,
but I'm telling you, since I'm in conversation with you
where I grew up in Chatsworth, California, which is about

(37:04):
twenty minutes from where I am right now. It's a
suburb of Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley, right.
It is one of the places that gets overlooked when
people start talking about the oddities of Los Angeles and
get into places like Laurel Canyon or you know, JPL
or whatever it is. But for me, because I'm from there,

(37:27):
but also just because of my understanding of what's really
going on there, it's actually hugely significant and probably intentionally
overlooks because there's not as convenient of a story that
you can weave over it as you can weave over
Laurel Canyon or some of these other locations.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
But that.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Rockadine, there's a Rockadine installation in the hills of Chatsworth,
which is a very interesting geographic area. It doesn't look
like the rest of Los Angeles really in any way.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
It has more of.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
A look of the Southwest, or even like what.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
We're told is like Mars or whatever it is to it, right.
And so there's Rockadyne.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
It was installed in the mountain in the hills there
and now it's Boeing and you know, there's been radioactive
activity there fusion reactor, sorry, fission reactor there in the past,
and they're supposedly building.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Test rockets and this that like, I don't know why you.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Would choose to do that, like in a place that's
almost impossible to get to, and it's still it's still active, right,
And there's a lot of stuff going on there as
it relates to energy, whether it be with particle accelerators
or whether it be with reactors. But it's literally built
on the same land where there's an area called Burrow Flats,

(38:52):
which is an Indian Tumash Indian sort of.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Area, right like, and some.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Of the most the oldest and most important cave paintings
in the United States are there, as it relates to
our relationship with the heavens or the stars, right, And
some of the cave paintings look exactly like plasma bursts,
linear particle accelerators, other kinds of technologies that we know

(39:22):
now are thousands of years old on the wall there,
and they exist in this cave called window I think
it's called window rock or window cave. And on the
winter solstice, the way the sun comes through the cave
points exactly to the very middle of what looks like
a vortex, or if you were to look at a
linear particle accelerator's head on it points directly to it.

(39:46):
And then it's got all this other stuff around it,
which to me is like, if you're standing here on
this alignment, this sort of other space is going to
open up and you're going to see all this kind
of stuff. Now it seems like, why do they do this?
Why do they put weapons companies, military installations, Department of
Energy facilities on these historic lands that Native Americans used

(40:10):
to commune with the heavens and whatever it is, unless
there is something there, unless they take seriously that knowledge
that Native Americans have, or if the land has some minerality,
some elements in it, or is some kind of portal
or window that they either want to explore or that

(40:34):
is advantageous for the kinds of activities or technologies that
they're trying to undertake. And then also on the same
bit of land is what's known as the Manson Tunnel,
right where Charles Manson and the Manson family lived at
Iverson Ranch, spawn Ranch, or all around this.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
There's a lot of layers of.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Inconvenient activity or knowledge that has gone on on the
same piece of land. So for me, it's got to
be that there's something about whatever the makeup of that
land is, Yeah, makes it opportune both for spiritual activity
but also to learn about that spiritual activity and to

(41:18):
create technologies that mimic it.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
I'll add to that because I think you're exactly right.
Ryan told me some wild stories about the true natural
phenomena that happens there. Some of it associated with the
U tribes and the skin walker lore. Some of it
is associated with magical practitioners, Satanic practitioners that enjoy going

(41:47):
out on the lands near his place. They often these
high level, high level military people will pay Ryan or
aerospace companies will pay him to go and do rituals
out on near the land. And there's you know, one
guy that stays near there, and he is a known
Satanic practitioner whatever you want to call it. And he

(42:08):
has this light system on top of a tint that
he shines in the sky at night to quote unquote
attract the old ones. Yep, this guy Ryan had him
stay at one of his trailers one night and this
guy put all kind of sigils on the inside of
his trailer. For some reason, Ryan was pissed off. But
these sigils were placed in this black material. They were

(42:32):
written in this black material that Ryan could not clean
no matter what he was using. He was using water,
all this chemicals, no matter what. So he went to
one of his a ute medicineman friends who is also
a Christian practitioner, and he said, your only way you're

(42:53):
going to get this off is holy water. And Ryan's
like bullshit, Well lo and behold, they go get some
holy water. They splash it. All they had to do
was splash a little on these sigils and they just
dissolved into nothing, which I thought was pretty wild. They
He's also told stories of well this is this is

(43:14):
the best one. One of his security guys a few
years back found these three gnarly dudes digging through one
of the trailers and his security guy had some other
dudes with him and they were strapped. They had weapons,
and they told the people that the three guys to freeze,
and when they did, they noticed they didn't look right.

(43:34):
They had like eyeshine, like canines. They all moved in synchronicity.
They all sat down like dogs at the same time,
and then at the same time, they all jumped up
and started lunging at these dudes, which they proceeded to
open fire. They unloaded on these guys, took they These
guys took a lot of shots until they eventually just

(43:57):
turned around and started running the other way. They were
leaping over fences that they shouldn't have. They were running
like canines. And the wildest part is the next day,
the three members of you tribe were found in three
different locations behind locked doors, dead with gunshot wounds. So
pretty wild stuff happens out there. And that's, you know,

(44:18):
I believe that's really connected to some of the Native
American lore that happens out there. But there's, like I said,
like that's Titanic guy. There's all kinds of people who
go out there to do these strange rituals and connect
with something.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Just that curiosity.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
If ever, when was the last time that you tore
through the Twin Peaks series?

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Oh god, I had just started a couple of months ago,
and then I had got busy doing something else and
I fell off of it. I really need to get
back into it. I was like on the third episode again,
but before that I couldn't talk. I could didn't remember
much about it.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
So I watched it as a kid when it first
came out right and was sort of really taken with it,
though I couldn't quite understand why. And then I watched
it again a couple of years ago as an adult
and having much more obviously esoteric knowledge than I had
when I was like fourteen or whatever when it came out.
But now I'm on like, either this is my third
or fourth run through it, because I do a series

(45:19):
with my girlfriend and with Hunter and Chris on Twin Peaks,
and we're kind of attacking it from all the different
perspectives and the whole story that we just kind of
went through here about Skinwalker Ranch and what I told
you about Chatsworth and then what you said, are these schedules.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
This is all stuff that's in Twin.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Peaks, And I'm kind of approaching the series from the
perspective like I do a lot of things, and I'm
not saying that this is necessarily true, but it helps
me to have like a way of understanding things that
Mark Frost and David Lynch wrote Twin Peaks about Chatsworth,
because actually there was a very similar case of two
girls going missing and one turning up dead in Chatsworth

(46:01):
in a very similar way as what happened in the
series about a year or two before the series came out.
And there's a lot of sort of similarities between Twin
Peaks and Chatsworth. But what you were, you know, some
of these locations where there is whether it be something
from the types of trees or the types of rocks,
or the bones of the Native American people that were

(46:25):
buried there before, and maybe there's some interesting minerality in
their bones or something like that, that this seems to
be an area where you can open up a room
or a portal, like you know, call it.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
The Black Lodge or whatever like like in Twin Peaks.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
And only now do I feel like I have enough
occult and esoteric knowledge that I'm really understanding the series.
And I just finally on this round three, sort of
really came to understand the mechanics of the Black Lodge, right,
and the mechanics of the Black Lodge are best explained
in that series by the Native American member of the
Sheriff's department there, right, And it basically is like there's

(47:08):
a black Lodge and there's a white lodge, right, And
you can't get to the white Lodge without going through
the black Lodge. So you can't just ascend without going
through the dark side. The black Lodge eats most people
up because you have to face your shadow, you have
to face your deepest fears. But if you, you know,
make it through there, then you can join this sort

(47:29):
of spiritual brotherhood that is responsible for much of how
we experience reality, right, you know, but a lot of
people give in to the excesses of the.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Dark of the dark Lodge. And where the black Lodge
is in the woods in Twin Peaks, there is a
puddle when at the time when it can open, there
is a puddle of black stuff that is some really
weird substance that like smells like burnt mineral oil or
whatever it is. But that is present when this happens. Right.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
So when you were talking about these black sigils, I
bet you that they're drawn in that substance that is
present when the when the black lodged open in the
in the the woods, and so whatever that is, I
don't know if that's the black goo, I don't know,
if it's some kind of like pine tar that you know,
I don't know what it is. But you know, like

(48:21):
we're talking full on Twin Peaks here, and if you
really listen to what's being said by the the character
in Twin Peaks Briggs, that is the air the kernel
in the Air Force. Right, that at a certain point
the government realized that what they thought was like alien
stuff is really interdimensional activity in the woods, and that

(48:45):
Project blue Book is really about the transmission sort of
across dimensions from from all of this kind of stuff, right.
And so my guess would be that like this is
there's areas like this all over the country and all
over the world, right, and they always seem to be
on sort of either these very sacred sort of grounds

(49:08):
that you that have nothing going on there really like
in terms of industry, or industry has co opted those lands,
like I told you about rocke Din or Boeing, or
often you'll get like a Department of Energy facility there,
or a water treatment plant or some kind of you know,
power transfer station or something like that there, and then

(49:31):
you know, all sorts of anomalous stuff goes on, and
they scare most people away by either saying there's a
radiation leak there or or whatnot, but that really keeps
them from coming close, and the only people who come
close are people who are not scared, right, And it
just sort of thins that herd. But I recommend, based

(49:52):
on your experience with this documentary and what you've been
learning from him, go check that out and you'll see
like there's a situation that matches up with just about
everything we've talked about here today. And that was back
in nineteen ninety yeah, and so you know that knowledge
has been there, and you know, but people can't. We

(50:15):
don't understand until we understand, and you don't even understand
what you don't understand until you understand it.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
Right, Yeah, Yeah, I definitely would love to go and
do a deep dive back into that. I've been meaning
to for a long time. And it's funny you mentioned
the black goo substance because I actually have an experience
that we'll get to later that involved this kind of
black gooish substance coming from inside me, which is pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
I've had a personal black woo experience as well, so
not that surprising. I've had it around me, but I've
also had it come from inside at a very specific
time in my life.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
So very interesting. All right.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
What I want to do before we sort of move
on into the more sort of psychedelics mushroom based portion
of the conversation is I do want to talk about
the sleep paralysis aspect of you, both of your documentary
but also of your story, because this is another thing,
another commonality.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
That that you and I share, and so like.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Sort of from a personal perspective for you, tell us
about it, and then maybe a little bit about like
the different people you talk to about it in in
your your your documentary and sort of what your your
how your view however it is, has changed over time.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
Yeah, you're right on. I it was around the same
time period that I first started looking into esoteric topics.
It was about a year before. Actually it was the
last year of that bad marriage before we broke up,
and I was probably in my lowest state. We were
arguing all the time. I couldn't get any peace. I

(51:56):
wasn't sleeping at night, so I would try and sleep
during the day I did have like an evening job
or something at the time, and the experiences just started
where I wouldn't be able to move, and you know,
I'm just your typical sleep paralysis description. You'd wake up
and a hit in the gegic state, can't move, but

(52:17):
I just have this kind kind of feeling of dread
or despair along with it. Eventually, the shadow people start
showing up and it's like I can look out of
the corner of my eye, I can see the kitchen
and it's like there's there's a shadow people party and
there's you know, people walking around in there, up and
down the hall. It's like they're peeping peeking into my room.

(52:38):
Is so creepy. All I can see is their shadows,
and I know one. There's no one in my no
one in my apartment at the time, and those just escalated.
Every time I try to go to sleep, it would
just it would wake me up, or you know, I'd
come to that point where I'd forced myself awake because
it becomes so terrifying. The last few times it was

(52:58):
like so intense. It's felt like something was coming and
banging through my ceiling and the shadow people just like
running around my bed, coming in and out my room,
banging noises on my ceiling, and I'd forced myself to
wake up. Eventually, it just all went away when I
kind of just got into a better state and got
through the divorce, and you know, this thing's just stopped happening.

(53:21):
I had Vicky Joy Anderson because she has just an
interesting perspective on sleep paralysis. It is more of a
Christian perspective, and I don't agree with everything, but I
do find her studies very interesting because she interviews a
lot of people who've had sleep paralysis experiences and she
does a lot of comparisons, and according to her research,

(53:42):
there's some interesting changes in people's sleep paralysis experiences as
of lately where they're interacting with instead of your typical
succubists or Incubis beings or shadow beings that they seem
to be more cyborg like, technological or aliens type of beings,
which is I find very interesting. So yeah, we feature her.

(54:05):
I also have Daniel Rekshan who has the dream Well Institute.
He chimes in a little bit on sleep paralysis, but
he mostly focuses on the shamanic dreaming aspect of everything
and how we can access information and dreams and entities
and intelligences and bring back this information. So yeah, that

(54:27):
was basically my sleep paralysis experiences, and I basically took
away that I was because I was in such a
dark state of mind that not necessarily was being attacked
by demons, but my inner demons were manifesting at the time.

(54:47):
They were showing up in a very powerful way. Because
I wasn't looking at any of that stuff. I was
burying all this darkness and muck deep inside and it
was just coming out at that time. I believe it
was manifesting like aggrigres into these shadow people. And I
can't say that's everyone's experiences. That's just my understanding of

(55:10):
the experience. And it's not to say these things didn't
have an intelligence of their own, because I believe that
aggrigors and the energy we can put out can take
on an intelligence and life of its own, and it
can be like a separate being that we're interacting with.
It could have such powerful things. That's the power of
our imagination. I believe we manifest this reality through our thoughts,

(55:33):
our feelings, our emotions, our energy, and it's all part
of our inner world. That comes out at times, and
I believe it's also connected to It's like as above,
so below we have these astral metaphysical lives that we're
living on the other side that reflect the material lives,

(55:55):
and it's like an ecosystem of intelligence is just beyond
in that astral realm where we're also residing, if you
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Yeah, I mean it's very The sleep paralysis from is
definitely you said a lot of interesting stuff there, right,
So the sleep paralysis is one of the most interesting
phenomenons I think out there, right, But there is, as
there are with a lot of other sort of borderline experiences.

(56:25):
It is so much about whatever the belief system or
the angle of perception is of the person who's experiencing it, right,
Like a Christian person is gonna, you know, see either
demons or saints or angels, depending on what their perspective is, right,
Like some Christianity for me, like assumes that everything that

(56:49):
we are not sure we know or in agreement with
has to be bad. And that's my struggle with like
the Christian perspective on things. Then there's also you know,
a New Age scenario, which I think is a lot
more religious in nature than than most people would admit

(57:10):
that like somehow everything is is.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Really for your benefit or or if.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
You're experiencing darkness it's because you're not thinking positively or whatever.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Then you're right.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
And then modern day like depending on you know what
media you avail.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Yourself to, what.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Just your your understanding of like technology and how it
affects our day to day life in society, I could
very well see how the people who used to see
demons or angels or whatever would now see cyborgs or
or aliens or whatnot. Right, it's kind of like an
aesthetic shift that has happened in society.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
Right.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
For for me, For me, your experience is a little
bit closer to mine, and that like I wasn't I wouldn't.
It seems like if to what, to whatever extent I
had any interaction or any awareness of their being beings,
they were seemed to be people, or even if they
were in shadow, they didn't seem to be monsters or

(58:09):
aliens or anything other than like we're like kind of
slightly creepy creepy people, only creepy because you didn't know
what they're doing before I tell you sort of what
my experience is with that, I do want to reflect
one thing, like do you think it's possible that that
was layered and that this was like the first time

(58:29):
he tried to contact you, which is and now you
understand as your higher self or outside the time stream,
but you didn't have any You hadn't explored all these
ideas yet, so there were not so many ways to
reach you other than to try to wake you up
out of your sort of dead sleep, like what we
try to do to our family when they don't believe
us about nine to eleven, or you just like bang

(58:51):
them over the head. You're like knocking and knocking, like
trying to get at tension, and then you know, like
maybe it was him then trying to say you need
to make a change in your life. But like over
time you made some changes and you opened up new
lines of possible communication and you got yourself into a
better state, and then you know it was like, Okay,

(59:13):
now I found it's easier to communicate and I don't
have to try and scare this person into changing. I
can just like tell them what's going on, right, because
it's possible.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
I look at it in two possible ways, Like I said, earlier,
could be a reflection of my own inner demons coming out.
I'd never thought about that. It could have been layered.
It's something to consider. But the other consideration I have
is because I was vibrating at such a low state
and I may have been attracting parasitic type of entities.

(59:45):
These whatever these shadow people are these because they did
have this very malevolent, negative feel to them, nothing like
layered ever had, which was the exact opposite. But again,
it could have just been a way to shake me awake.
It could have been a way to who you know,
nothing else was working, so we'll scare the shit out
of you. Who knows? You know that. It's all all considerations.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
And also, if you were in a lower state, wouldn't
yourself outside of time or even your higher stealth also
be at a layer or level right right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
So it's just one thing to think about. I think
about some of this for myself.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
With this as well with sleep paralysis, I've experienced it
my whole life, so from the time I was really
little now when you're young.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
I actually believe.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
At this point that I experienced it in the womb,
and I experienced it as a baby. I did not
want to sleep at all. When I was a kid,
like my parents said, I was just up all night.
I never wanted to sleep. I mean as a baby,
and then as a youngster, like I struggled to sleep.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
I sometimes would be up all night in my bedroom,
reading books, doing things. I was terrified to go to sleep.
And a little kid doesn't have the language to say,
I'm experiencing sleep paralysis.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Something happens to me when I'm to fall asleep or
when I'm just about to wake up, where I can't
move right and whatever, and so it would be normal
to just resist the condition that brings that about. And
then I'd say as like maybe when I got over
ten or whatever, I started to recognize it as sleep paralysis.
But he didn't really talk about it to anyone until

(01:01:20):
I was maybe a later teenager or early in my twenties,
and then I told my when I started to have
I started to have more of it, and it was
became like a little scarier during a period of time
when I first started experimenting with drugs, and like not psychedelics,
like drugs, drugs, that's what it became super duper intense,
and so I became very focused on it. For me often,

(01:01:44):
very very seldom has the experience included the perception of
a being early on, like some of the first memories
I have when I was kind of conscious of it.
It's like I said, post ten, I would feel like
there was someone leaning over my bed right that I
couldn't quite see, but I sensed it was there. And

(01:02:05):
then other times than that, I've heard like walking down
the hallway or like maybe like a little knock at
the door or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
But I've never seen like a ton.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Of beings or like that that just being bombarded by it,
like what you said, And for for my whole adult life,
it's always been worse when I've been in.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Like on drug.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
I was a drug addict on and off from twenty
five to forty, and then I've been cleaned for ten years.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
I still do psychedelics, I drink alcohol.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
I had a problem with with meth and the first
drug go round in my early twenties whatever was with cocaine, right,
And during those times of like using the amphetamine substances,
it was always more frequent and more intense. And when
I say more frequent, I mean like sometimes all night long,
I'd be fighting off paralysis. I'd like pull myself out
of it, and then I'd fall back asleep because I

(01:02:56):
was so tired from the fight out of it, and
it just happened again, and you know, I was like
in battle, but it felt mostly physical. It didn't necessarily
feel like someone was necessarily there. Recently, a couple of
years ago, I had one more interesting. I mean, I
still have it occasionally, but it's just physical and I'll
do the like try and move my pinky and then

(01:03:17):
once I can move my hand, then I'm able to
pull myself out of it. But my mom died a
couple of years ago, and my mom is the other
person in my family who experiences it, and she died,
you know, from complications from dementia and Alzheimer's, and.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
I thank you. I mean, she was pretty difficult.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
My mom was never really a happy person, and it
was very difficult that last period of time. Although when
she was in that dementia state and sometimes she seemed
happier than she was like in her regular life. But
she is the other person in my family who had
that sleep paralysis, and as I've learned more about her,
I recognize like was probably also like whatever is going

(01:03:59):
on from me in regards to associations, to projects and
mk lture kind of stuff really comes through through her
and that there's a connection between these things and that
on some level, you know. So I had been out
here visiting with her in the hospital in the hospice
for a week before she died, and then about a
week or two after I went back to Austin, she

(01:04:19):
passed in the middle of the night.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
And I was the night that she passed. I was asleep.
I was having a dream about sleep paralysis. I don't recall.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
If I was actually paralyzed or if I was just
dreaming about being paralyzed. Right, And I'm having this dream
and some like some I hear voices, like just female voices,
not like like people talking, and I couldn't tell if
it was my mom or who it was, but I

(01:04:53):
hear a female voice say.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Oh, yeah, we call that old hag. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
And as soon as I as I heard that we
call this old Hag, my phone rang and it was
my sister telling me my mom had just died.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
And when I right, And.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
So I got on a show like later that week
with Nish. I do a series with Nish, and we
had one other person with us, and I started telling
them that, and they're like, oh, that's actually that's the
like occult or spiritual phenomenon name for the experience of
sleep paralysis.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
They call it old Hag, which I had no idea about.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
And we got into some research on crones and all
of this kind of stuff, and that was like the
last really like significant. I mean, I still have it
physically that the sleep paralysis occasionally, not very often anymore.
So there is something it seems to be a like
like we were talking about how being in the water

(01:05:51):
or the frequency adjustment from the UFO or or the
psychedelics makes like some sort of interface to communicate across
or some sort of like frequency band that you can
use it to sort of communicate some level of information
or experience in an extraordinary state. That's I mean, that's

(01:06:13):
the best like I can come to as to like
it what it is. And it also feels to me like,
are you ever familiar at all with like the Gateway.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
Experience, Gateway experience, what do you mean, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Robert Monroe, h Gateway experience. Like I've traced a lot
of my experiences and and whatever I might have been
involved with to that largely other stuff too, But that's
something that I didn't realize until a certain point, and
then once I went looking there, I'm like, oh, yeah,
this explains this, this, this and this and whatever it is.

(01:06:50):
But the technique for rolling out of your body there
really looked like when I thought about the figure that
I saw standing over my body, it was in that
same spot and in the same way, it explained how
to get out of your body.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
So, I think sleep paralysis for the astral traveler or
for the interdimensional explorer or whatever it is, is one
sort of pathway, not the only one right out. And
if you're some way like outside of I don't know
what the traumatic experience that you're mentioning from childhood was,

(01:07:30):
no need to talk about it or whatever. But if
it's possible that you were outside of your front awareness
pre loaded with the gateway experience as a kid, which
I know that I was, that this could have been
also something that may have been going on.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
In terms of the mechanics and the metaphysics of it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
Yeah, yeah, I would agree that in that hit and
the gegic state where you're paralyzed and there's this weird vibration,
it seems to be a precursor to the out of
body experience from everything that I've heard, and I've had
guests that are regularly able to induce those states which
I have never been able to. I've tried a few times,

(01:08:17):
never been able to. I've even been able to get
into almost a vibratory paralyzed state, but it would make
me too nervous and I would just jump out of it.
I don't know if I'm ready for any of that yet,
But according to some of the folks that I've talked
to about their astral travels, they have to get through

(01:08:38):
a layer of denser, darker beings before they can get
positive black lives, white lives. So these shadow beings often
are there waiting for them, and they're just there to
try and deter them, and they're just either parts of
their consciousness or they're these astral beings that not necessarily
are malevolent or benevolent, but they appear based on where

(01:09:01):
what our perception is at the time, and a lot
of people who have the astral travel experience can just
completely bypass the dark, negative entities and they shoot to
the higher realms and they don't even have to worry
about those things because they're like in a such a
high vibratory state. So I find that very interesting that
there are layers to these astral realms to get through,

(01:09:24):
and I think that could be what we're experiencing there.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
I sometimes refer to characters or beings like this as
boundary guards. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Think about this though for a second, right, like, what
if the times when we experience sleep paralysis, and I've
experienced it both directions I've experienced on the way out,
like when you're trying to fall asleep or when you're
waking up, is that maybe some of us are actually
gifted trastral travelers. And most of the time it's smooth

(01:09:58):
out of the body and smooth into the b body
so we don't notice. And the times we have sleep
paralysis is just when the alignment things like kind of
like having a rough landing on an airplane or a
bumpy takeoff that when you're coming back in, you just
whether you know you try it was too fast, or
you're in a slightly more agitated state because of the
condition of your body or your psyche or whatever, it

(01:10:19):
makes everything more difficult. And when I think back to
like childhood, right, like if you're Even if the experiences
in the astral ranged from sort of ambivalent to beneficial,
it's still something like, what is this.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
I don't understand what this is?

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
And it might create panic around when you know that's
happening or whatever it is, and so paralysis or then
fear of sleeping or whatnot is a thing. And you'll
hear people talk about, oh, if you just relax when
you're paralyzed, you're about to have the most incredible loose.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
And dream ever. Like it's really hard to be like, I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:10:55):
Paralyzed and I'm just lack real But conversely, like, maybe
it really is that the other nights when it's not happening,
it's we just had smooth sailing off to do to
do our work right, and that this is just I mean,
I was a gymnast and when everything goes well, it's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
But when something's a little off, it's scary.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
And this may be something akin to you know, sort
of multi you know, interdimensional multiverse gymnastics kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
Kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Right, So yeah, but it is interesting to hear everyone's
different perceptions about what it means.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
And I whenever I look back at my psychedelic experiences.
They would be so profound and so unreal and so dreamlike,
but it would be when I was in the experience,
it was real, as this reality is more real than
this reality. I was there, I was experiencing, I'm communicating
with this, I'm doing whatever I'm doing. But when I

(01:11:54):
come back, it's like it just fades away, that realness
fades away, and it's just, oh, that was just like
that was just a vision that I had. It wasn't
really real, but there was something real about it. And
I can remember certain dreams that feel the exact same way.
I'm in it. It's so real, I'm there, the information
is coming through, but when I come back, it's like, oh,

(01:12:15):
that was just I can't, you know, grasp onto that
element that it was very real at the time. And
I think that and I also have a problem remembering
my dreams. I do smoke marijuana, so that's probably has
a lot to do with not being able to remember
some of my dreams. Although every once in a while
I'll get this profound memory of one or I'll have

(01:12:37):
this really vivid dream, but not as often as I
used to. And after my psychedelic experiences, I'm able to
hold the connection with my higher self and get information
whenever it comes through. And that always happens before I'm
going to sleep. Whenever I'm lying there ready for sleep, layer,

(01:12:58):
it'll come along higher self and just start giving information.
I no longer use the mushrooms, the psychedelics. It's been
quite a few months. I will go back if called to,
but it's only for very you know, if, like I said,
if it just calls to me. And it hasn't for
a while, so I haven't really gone back and visited

(01:13:19):
those realms. But I spent the better part of three
and a half years, every single month digging into my
psilocybin garden and taking about four to seven gram doses
once a month and going extremely deep into into the
psyche and doing some major work there. So that is

(01:13:43):
what really changed everything.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
Hey, guys, hope you enjoyed the first part of my
recent chat with Chris Matthew from Forbidden Knowledge News. If
you'd like to hear the rest of the more than two.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Hour conversation, head on over to pay or Locals following
one of the links below. You'll also find a discount
code for a free month on Locals and links to
free weeks at two different levels on Patreon. I also
recommend you go check out Forbidden Knowledge News, as well
as Chris's excellent new documentary The Doors of Perception. All right, guys,

(01:14:20):
we'll see you on the other side. Thanks a lot,
Bye bye,