Curse of Oz - Goat of Mendes & Dark Mother - Occult Cinema Symbolism | Robert Sullivan IV - Forbidden Knowledge News

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
I think it's just going to get weirder and weirder
and weirder, and finally it's going to be so weird
that people are going to have to talk about how
weird it is. Eventually people are going to say, what
the hell is going on. It's not enough to say
it's nuts. You have to explain why it's so nuts.

(00:23):
The invention of artificial life, the cloning of human beings,
possible contact with extraterrestrials, the systems which are in place
to keep the world saying are in utterly inadequate to
the forces that have been unleashed.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Welcome back to Forbidden Knowledge News. I'm your host Chris Matthew.
Today my guest is Robert Sullivan. Be sure to watch
my films A Call Louisiana, available on two B, Roku
channel and multiple streaming platforms. Doors of Perception is available
on Amazon primes to be on the other streaming platforms
as well. We are booking guests for October. If you

(01:05):
have suggestions or you'd like to be a guest, email
me Forbidden Knowledgenews at gmail dot com. Visit our website
Forbidden Knowledge dot News. It's the home of the Forbidden
Knowledge Network. We feature some of your favorite podcasts and
content creators. Today, I want to welcome back to the
show Robert Sullivan. He is a Freemason, attorney, philosopher, historian,

(01:27):
lay theologian, writer, Mystic radio TV podcast, personality, best selling
author and CEO. Robert. Welcome back. How you doing.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
I'm very well, Chris, Thanks again for having me on
Forbidden News Knowledge or this wonderful podcast you have. Thank
you for having me on. It's my pleasure to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
It is great to have you back. Like we were
saying before, it's been a while since you've been on. Today,
we're going to be discussing some of your latest work,
decoding occult and esoteric symbolism and cinema. You've done some
incredible work and you've been doing this for a very
long time. There's a lot we could dissect. But before

(02:08):
we do, like I said, it's been a while, remind
the audience just a little bit about yourself and let
them know how they can find out more about you.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Certainly so, my name is Robert Sullivan and I'm the
author of five books. I've been podcasting now for going
on on twelve years. The first book came out in
twenty twelve, so good Grief, this is almost thirteen years ago.
In fact, it was released in August of twenty twelve,
so it has been almost thirteen years almost to the day.
The five books are The Royal Arch of Enoch, which

(02:39):
is about esoteric freemasonry. That I have three movie books,
Cinema Symbolisms one, two, and three, which is about accult themes, tropes,
symbolism in popular cinema. And I have a work of
fiction called A Pact with the Devil. I am currently
working on Cinema Symbolism four, which is nearing completion, and

(03:01):
Cinema Symbolism Oz, which is going to be all about
the Wizard of Oz. I've talked about this before, but
Cinema Symbolism four really focuses a lot back onto the
Wizard of Oz and just some other other things going on.
And again, if you're interested in what I'm saying, my
website the easiest place to find me. I do not
have any social media, so my website is it it's

(03:22):
my name, which is Www. Robert W. Sullivan four. My
name is Robert W. Sullivan four, so it's the number
four dot com. Www. Robert W. Sullivanfo dot com. Links
to buy the books there on all the formats, the
ebook or the paperback. Information about me. A biography podcast

(03:42):
that I've done, We're about to do this one will
be posted there once it's put on YouTube or rumble.
And again, just very easy site to navigate information about me.
I have a blog, I update it pretty routinely, so
again just go there for more information about me. Www.
Robert W. Four number four dot com.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Excellent. Let's start with what got you interested in looking
into the esoteric symbolism and films?

Speaker 3 (04:13):
So sure that all that goes back really to when
I was a child almost I was born in nineteen
seventy one, so of course growing up episodes four, five,
and six, for you know, Star Wars was a pretty
big influence on my life. I saw all of those
in the theater, and it really was later in high
school in the late eighties that you come to discover

(04:34):
that those those movies, especially the first Star Wars is
essentially ancient mythology, just rebranded with Luke Skywalker being the
solar hero, Princess Leia representing the moon. You have all
the archetypes there, the villain, the Mephistophelean character Darth Vader,
and this of course all comes out of the work
of Joseph Campbell. So that's really kind of what got

(04:57):
me started in this and just taking a little deeper
look at cinema and how pop culture was really including
these esoteric themes, ancient religions, mythologies, and then even on
some levels very deep and darker things alchemy, gnosticism. Movies
can be somewhat predictive. I have several theories on that

(05:18):
where they seem to be able to predict the future.
That's an interesting conversation. So yeah, that's that's kind of
how I got started on it. And and in my
first book, which was The Royal Arch, I ended that
book talking about Masonic and Enochic symbolism and film. Some
of the movies I talked about was, of course the
National Treasure movies, The Ninth Game with Johnny Depp, Excalibur,

(05:41):
the John Borman movie, very solar, Enochian, enochic Masonic movies,
And of course this parlayed into my next three movie
books where I just continued on with this theme instead
of going into Masonic or solar you know, themes or icons,
you know, we got into gnosticism or mythology or uh,
you know, just numerology, numbers being used in movies, you know, repetition,

(06:06):
things of that nature. So that's how it all got
created and basically started.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
As you mentioned, there are many different kinds of esoteric
symbolism we can see in films. We have that which
is supposed to be baked in, it's part of the plot,
is part of the story. Then we have these other
subtle symbols and themes that come up that many people
won't even really notice. You have to be somewhat initiated

(06:34):
to see the occult symbolism and meaning behind some of
these things. But when it comes to those things that
are baked in that seem to be very deep and symbolic,
do you think that this is intentionally put in there
through a top down type of hierarchical system, meaning there's

(06:57):
someone at a high level that requested this symbol be
put here at this time for this reason. Or is
it more along the lines of synchronisticism where the producer, director,
or writer is getting downloads of information. Are they are
pulling from the ether and this is somehow connected and

(07:20):
it can be linked with like you said, predictive programming
or other types of symbolism. How do you think this
gets put into these films?

Speaker 3 (07:30):
The answer is there is no one answer. The answer
is there is no one answer. It is all of that.
It can be intentional, it can be accidental, it can
be the director. I mean, you look at some of
the stuff with Kubrick, with that, there is no question
that that stuff is not placed there intentionally. Saying with

(07:50):
Darren Aronofsky movies like Black Swan, I mean some things
in there that are obviously very very intentional, and a
lot of it, like you said, the deeper baked in stuff.
The idea is your your conscious mind doesn't pick up
on it, but the subconscious does. So that's what they're
appealing to, what you're not even aware of. And again

(08:12):
this types into archetypal imagery, tropes, the archetypes, things of
that nature. So the answer is there's no one answer.
It can be you know, being placed in by the
director intentionally, depending on the sophistication of the movie maker,
you know, like like for example, one of the examples
I always give is when you're talking about like gnostic movies,

(08:35):
one of the greatest, if not the greatest example of
the demiurge character and in creating ever appearing in film.
This may come of a surprise, as Bella Lagosi in
the Edward movie Glen or Glenda. Now, I can tell
you right now that ed Wood probably knew less than
nothing about gnosticism, and yet and yet there it is.
I mean, there is like one of the prime examples

(08:57):
of the demiurgic creator in film with Logo. So again
this was probably somewhat more like coming out of the
collective unconscious almost at that point with Wood. But again
it depends on the sophistication of the filmmaker. And then
there is also an element that I believe is somewhat
is coming out of the supernatural realm. And then there

(09:20):
is elements of like what Young talked about with the
collective unconscious, and is this working in reverse? Movies are
creative expressions, and by creating a film, are you somehow
tapping into, like you said, the ether and maybe even
putting things into your movies that you're not even aware of?
Very possible? I mean, obviously, cinema is arguably the greatest

(09:41):
medium ever created for entertainment purposes. So the answer I've
always found is there's no one answer to it. You
just have to look at the movie and kind of
break it down from there.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Since you mentioned the Wizard of Oz earlier, I know
you have done a lot of work with this, and
it's resurfacing in your new book. Talk a little bit
about some of the things that you've picked apart here.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
So sure, the Wizard of Oz was was a movie
that I actually took one in my very first movie book,
which I'm in the process of doing another edition of,
but with the Wizard of Oz. The guy who wrote
it was L. Frank Baum, and Baum was a member
of Blovatsky's Theosophy Society. And when you're looking at the
Wizard of Oz, it encodes several things, and you actually

(10:26):
see this in the film. It is obviously, on its surface,
just a story about a girl who goes to this
magical land, has an adventure, and goes home. That's the
base story of it. And of course from there you
can easily see that the Wizard of Oz is coming
out of the world of Lewis Carroll. I mean, you
can clearly see parallels with the Wizard of Oz and

(10:48):
Alice in Wonderland. I mean, they're all but the exact
same story with the Wizard of Oz. What Bam did
was he encoded a political layer underneath where this movie
is symbolically documentary, documenting essentially the political socio economic life
of the late nineteenth century, where the Wizard of Oz

(11:10):
is of course the twenty fifth President William McKinley. You
have things like the yellow brick Road, which is the
gold standard, which leads to Emerald City. It's green because
it represents green dollar bills, greenbacks. The tin man is
the American laborer, The scarecrow is the American farmer. The
cowardly Lyon is McKinley's political opponents, William Jennings Bryan and

(11:30):
Eugene Debs, who are all bark and no bite. Of course,
williams Jennings Bryan was a teetotaler, which means he didn't
drink alcohol. And this is of course where the dog's
name comes from, Toto. So you have the political allegory,
but then also you have the Bolovatsky gnostic influence, where
it's this girl who goes to this magical land, has

(11:52):
this adventure and she comes to know herself. She has
her a gnostic epiphany. This is the entire purpose of
the Mystery Schools was to come to know thyself and
Dorothy Gale it is to know that there isn't no
place like home. That is her gnosticky awakening. So that's,
in a nutshell, the lay and I like the Wizard
of Oz. I mean, it's without question the altimate American

(12:14):
fairy tale. But there's also something very peculiar going on
with this movie. And this is really the subject of
my next book. This takes pretty much center stage of
cinema symbolism for which is I'm proud to say, I'm
happy to say is wrapping up. And we have one
more chapter left to right and I have the conclusion
and that is it, and I still have to edit it.
I still have to format it, which is no easy feet,

(12:35):
I assure you, but that will come out. And I'm
also doing I've made up my mind. I'm INSI going
to do a book just strictly on the Wizard of
Oz because there's just so much information. But in a nutshell,
there is this And I have been looking at this
thing now for going on two two and a half years,
and I can tell you this, there is no question.
This is not happening because the evidence is just too overwhelming.

(12:57):
But there is this killing curse, death curse surrounding this
movie that ties into the procession of the equinoxes. This is,
of course the Platonic year. The Mayans called this the
backtoons with the changeover from the age of Pisces to Aquarius,
which is we are going through right now. Alistair Crowley,

(13:19):
the famous Masonica called this ceremonial. Magician Golden Donner wrote
about this extensively, and he gives in his work what
I would describe as like a roadmap as to when
you will start seeing this thing coming into play, when
you'll see Aquarius basically becoming more and more prevalent, especially

(13:41):
the social norms and morays of Aquarius, and Pisces starts
to begin to fade out of the picture. What is
interesting about Crowley is he gives a series of numbers,
this series of Cabbalistic numbers, and he identifies the New
Age Sun god as Oz and he gives this entity

(14:04):
a number, and it's number the number is seventy seven.
And if he identifies this son god as of course
for the for the age of Aquarius, it's the goat
of Mendez. It's the of course, the Baphomet symbol drawn
by a Lapis Levy and Crowley sort of gives a
roadmap of this jamatria of when you will start seeing

(14:24):
things appearing in the twentieth century and these numbers being
linked to a lot of these events, and you can
document it. But what is so interesting about Crowley's jamatria is,
and it is quite that there's no evidence Crowley was
aware of There's a lot of his numbers, many of
them sink to the Wizard of Oz movie. So what
makes it so strange is when you start seeing these

(14:45):
events playing out in real time in front of you,
and you will see these numbers manifesting, whether it's the
Kennedy assassination, whether it's nine to eleven, the death of
Princess Diana, the assassination of Robert Kennedy buried in there
will be some sort of little Wizard of Oz illusion,
and it's very macabre. It's very very creepy to look at.

(15:07):
The Other thing that I'm absolutely convinced of is because
these numbers only appear with death and destruction. If it
was just it was just the numbers appearing, I would
say Okay, this is Crowley. But what makes this so
unusual is it is around all these tragic events like
nine to eleven or the Kennedy assassination, like I said,
the Prince of Diana death back in ninety seven, and

(15:32):
I am convinced that somewhere along the line in the
late nineteenth century, there must have been some sort of
death curse placed on L. Frank Balm by Native American Indians.
Because the reason I say that I can't document it
is I can't document it. But the reason I say
that is because Bomb in the late nineteenth century called
for the genocide of all Native Americans. But here's what

(15:54):
is strange that I think happened. I don't think the
curse kind of latched on the bomb. I think it's
somehow latched onto a books. And essentially, this curse didn't
start to become kinetic, didn't start to become active. You
really start to see it coming into play in the
year nineteen thirty nine when this movie starts to go
into production, of course I'm referring to The Wizard of Oz.

(16:16):
That's when the blank starts hitting the fan, as it were,
and this this dark energy takes over designating the Age
of Aquarius, saying goodbye to the Age of Pisces, where
essentially this new age Sun God is taking over. And
in all these tragedies you will see these sequencing of

(16:37):
numbers turning up. Identifying this Sun God as basically being
pervasive at this point in time probably gives a lot
of hallmarkers on this The fact that it's surrounded by
death and destruction is on It's somewhat unsurprising because he
does say that the god is a bloodthirsty monster. But again,
if you look at Crowley's Jumatria, what is so peculiar

(16:59):
about it is a lot of it does sink to
the Wizard of Oz. So when you're looking at these events,
you will always see these little Wizard of Oz illusions
buried in the event. Very macab very dark and very mysterious.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
And you said that this entity was the goat of Mendes, right.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
So based on the procession of the equinox, the Sun
adopts the characteristics of the sign it is in for
the next two thousand in the next two thousand years,
so of course the last two thousand years the Sun
has been in the Age of Pisces. It's been in
the constellation of Pisces, and of course the sun God
for that is easy to spot. It's Jesus Christ because
of course not a real person. He's just a personification

(17:43):
of Pisces. The fish washing the feet. Pisces rolls the feet,
you know, hangs around with twelve people. The twelve houses
of the zodiac is the fissure of men. Pisces feeds
people with two fishes Pisces. All his followers are fishermen
again Pisces. His virgin mother is Virgo, which is the
opposite house of Pisces. Again. Holy Bible, Old and New Testament,

(18:05):
nothing more than astrology probably was completely aware of this.
And what Crowley says is the Sun leads Pisces eventually,
and what happens is when the Sun gets out of Pisces,
these old age religions, they don't essentially get extinguished, but
they fade into the background. And you're seeing this now,
you're seeing the downplay of Christianity and Judaism in Islam.
And one of the things that probably says directly in

(18:28):
his books, he says is when this new age son God,
basically when Christ is being dethroned and being and the
goad of Mendes is being exalted. He said. One of
the things that you're going to see coming out, he said,
this is a hallmarker of this, he said, is what
is called transgender now. He said, this is yeah, he said,
this is where you start to see men acting like
women and women acting like men. He says, when you

(18:50):
see that Christ is dethroned, the goat of Mendes is ruling.
He doesn't use the word transgenderism because back one hundred
and twenty years ago, that word was not available to him.
But what he uses words like epiccene or androgynists. Those
are the words you will constantly hear from him. And
the other hallmarker he gives is environmentalism. He says, there
will be a cult of people who are obsessed with

(19:12):
the earth and the well being of the earth. He said,
when you start seeing these two things taking place again,
we're exiting prices and going into aquarius, and it sinks perfectly.
So again, this is really the subject of my next book,
which is cinema symbolism for But I've also made up
my mind that I've I'm going to do an entire

(19:33):
Wizard of Oz book with all the political allegories, all
the Kabbalistic and gnostic allegories, and then even going further
with this Aleister Crowley procession of the Equinox death verse.
And again it's by far away I can tell you
this right now. I mean, you know, for what it's worth.
I mean, the Royal arch of Enoch, all the Masonic symbolism,

(19:54):
the Book of Enoch, the movie symbolism, movies like The
Matrix or Star Wars or Black so On or The Shining.
I mean, as great as all of this is, this
thing puts all this this, This thing puts this stuff
in the back seat. I mean, this is by far
and away the most fascinating thing I've ever examined in
my whole life, and it never ceases to blow me away.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
So this curse, the way you describe it, it somewhat
seems like it could be a cycle, a natural cycle
that's occurring, But you believe it could also be a
curse that was put forward by Native Americans.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Well, it's a combination of both, I believe, because let
me put it like this, If it was just the numbers,
I would be willing to accept that this is some
sort of prowley. But because this thing is so acutely
tied to death and destruction, there must be some sort
of death mechanism behind it. And I believe that this

(20:53):
curse never latched onto Balm or his family, but instead
somehow to some sort of supernatural osmosis. I guess that's
the only way I can describe it latched onto his
books instead, because the books and the movie sync with Crowley.
And again, whenever you're looking at these death, these these

(21:15):
terror incidents, whether it be World War two and you
sink it with Crowley's Jamatria, it all goes back to
the Wizard of Oz. And again, it is by far
and away the most fascinating thing I've ever examined in
my life, without question. And again, there are a couple
things I can't tell you what they are. I'm sitting
on this right now. I'm sitting on a lot of it.

(21:35):
But there are a couple of things I can tell
you that if I told you, you would have no
doubt about this. I mean, if you read the book,
you will have no question one hundred percent that this
hasn't happening.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Speaking of curses, I heard you also mention the curse
of the Dark Mother is this something different.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
No, this ties into it the way this thing kills.
If you read Crowley, Crowley gives a death number basically
like what you would call your head shot. And the
number that Crowley assigns to this kill number is the
number forty two. And he says, essentially in his works
that this is what he caused, the grand number of

(22:16):
the curse, and he links it, associates this number with
this entity he calls the Dark Mother. And if you
eat Crawley, he basically the closest thing he equates this
thing to is he said, it is one of the
most vicious things you'll ever see. He equates it. The
closest thing he equates it to is this demonic goddess
from the Old Testament called Lilith, who is basically the

(22:38):
killer of children. And Crowley says that this is your
kill number. And whenever you see these deathly events playing out,
the number seventy seven will always be there, but the
number forty two will always be there as well. But
there's a little bit of a difference. The number seventy
two will stand out like a sore thumb. It's almost

(23:00):
like this entity is trying to get attention the number
forty two hides. This entity doesn't like to be discovered.
This thing is much more surreptitious than seventy seven. He
calls it the Dark Mother. It's this very evil, demonic goddess,
very vicious. And again this ties into Crowley's Jamatri and

(23:20):
the Wizard of Oz, because if you're familiar with the
number forty two, you will know that human beings can
only see rainbows or observe rainbows at an angle of
forty two degrees. And of course, if you go back
to the Wizard of Oz, what is the most famous
song that that movie generated, And of course it is
over the rainbow. So again this number again sinks to

(23:41):
the Wizard of Oz. Interestingly, and I don't think I've
ever mentioned this before on a podcast, and I can't
tell you where, but I will. When I went on
the books out one of the events, one of the
terror events, it was filmed, I can't tell you which one.
And actually, if you pause it correctly, this demon actually

(24:03):
appears on screen and you can actually see it. And
what makes it even more macabre is the demon actually
appears as basically looking like the Wicked Witch of the West,
and it is it is very, very creepy, and when
you see it, you really are staring literally at the
face of evil and is but it gives me goosebumps
even just thinking about it. I'm gonna put it in

(24:25):
the book. I can't tell you the event. It's not
nine to eleven, I'll tell you that, but there is
an event that happened where And it's one of the
things that I looked at a million times is I
wanted to make sure this wasn't doctor video, or wasn't
fake video or some sort of deep fake or anything
like that, and it is not as one hundred percent genuine.
And this demon appears literally for a split second, literally

(24:47):
for a split second. If you don't know where to look,
you'll never see it. But it is by far and
away the most one of the most macab things I've
ever examined seen in my life.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
So based on that, do you think the era that
we are currently headed into is being governed by a
dark demonic force?

Speaker 3 (25:07):
I think the question if it's demonic is a little
bit more of a subjective. Is it dark? Yes, absolutely,
I will go so far as to say dark and macab,
So yes, demonic not quite there yet, But definitely dark
and sinister and macab I would absolutely say that. And
if you read, if you read a lot of the

(25:28):
works about the people who talk about the Age of Aquarius,
they validate this. They said it's a very dark age.
They said, it is essentially an age where people think
it's gonna be equalitarian, democratic, but it's basically ruled by
this dark, evil force. And that does seem to be
playing out in real time. Right now the interesting time
to be alive.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
And do you have any idea how long of a
cycle this would be.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
That's a great question. I've often thought about that. I think,
I mean, I'm speculating here. I think that as we
get further into a quariace, this will start to fade off.
And because what if it's once it starts to become
more mainstream, I think this will start fading away. But
we'll see. That's a speculational me. That's my speculation. I can't.

(26:17):
I can't, that's me speculating. I can't say that for sure.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Well, I'd like to get into some recent films someone
that I've enjoyed that you've done some analysis on, starting
with Late Night with the Devil. I really enjoyed this movie,
tell us a little bit about what you've found in there.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Well, here's what's interesting about Late Night with the Devil
is this is one of those movies. And this is
something that I talk about again in the books, is
there seems to be some things in pop culture that
seem to be really carrying this curve forward into pop culture.
And this is certainly one of these movies. Long Legs
is another one. I mean, if you look at Late

(26:58):
Night with the Devil, I mean it almost like it
was produced by Alistair Crowley himself. I mean, I mean
the movie takes place in the year nineteen seventy seven,
if you remember God. I mean, we have the numbers,
the crowding numbers are present immediately nineteen seventy seven. We
have the visions, we have the imagery of the World
Trade Center. Of course, at nine to eleven is of

(27:20):
course Crowley, if you read his books, he calls nine
to eleven the supreme ritual, which is basically ushering in
the age of Aquarius. But and then you have, of
course the guy in the audience who is forty two
years old, so we have the number forty two. The
deceased wife appears seven times that's a key number for
Crowley as well. Clearly you will see a Wizard of

(27:44):
Oz influence on that movie, because of course it's filmed
in black and white in color, you know, the backstage
scenes are black and white and then the live scenes
are in color. That's completely designed to conjure the Wizard
of Oz where Jack Delroy is this Wizard of Oz
duplicit his character. So again a lot of Wizard of
Oz Aleister Crowley themes and symbolism going on in Late

(28:08):
Night with the Devil. I love the movie. I thought
it was absolutely great film by far and away one
of the best films I've seen recently released might be
getting into the top ten movies of mine. Certainly Long
Legs probably is with Nick Cage and that that's another
movie that looks like it was produced by Alistair Crowley
as well. I mean the number fourteen, of course, you know,

(28:28):
with the Girl's Birthdays, fourteen is of course seven plus seven,
which is seventy seven. The whole idea of Long Legs
again comes out of The Wizard of Oz, where the
director says that the long Legs character is the Wizard
of Oz is kind of duplicit his character pulling the
strings from behind the scenes. And of course who directed
Long Legs but the Wizard of Oz himself, Oz good Perkins.

(28:52):
So yeah, two very good movies. But no Late leg
Just I know, I got off a little tangent, but no.
Late Night with the Devil is a very good movie,
you know, again just getting away from Crowley. Of course,
the ritual at the end with Jack with the Devil
President and the Skeleton President clearly recalls Skull and Bones,

(29:13):
the rituals there, and of course the movie was released
on March twenty second, which is three twenty two Skull
and Bones. Of course, Bohemian grove Is mentioned him, right,
so you don't even have to go there. One of
the things that is unique in it, which I really
liked that they did, is is they identify the demon
that this guy is into is a Braxis, and that's

(29:34):
actually incorrect. Braxas was know, is what was known as
the Great Arkhan to a Gnostic heretic known as Basilidis,
and that's corrected in the movie. The one guy, Carmichael
Haig says, oh no, no, he said, you know, you know,
you know, the the Braxis is the really the Gnostic
interpretation is the correct one where you know it's the

(29:54):
great ARCon, it's the showman god, the demiurge name for it.
And so I really like that. And of course if
you go if you go online and you google a Braxis,
you're going to get the famous image of the god
with the rooster head and the two serpent legs. And
if you watch the movie very closely at the end
where Jack is clearly making a deal, you know this

(30:17):
was insinuated or implied that he cut a deal at
Bohemian Grove for the success that he had, but of
course his wife was going to get killed. If you
look at the chalice that he drinks out of to
like kind of cement the deal seal the deal, it
has the Abraxis image on it. It's very it's it's
very late, and it's it's it's it's it's put in

(30:37):
there very very subtly, but very very good, very good
imagery to take a look at. If you watch it again,
take a look at the chalice that Jack drinks out
of at the end. It has the Abraxis imagery right on.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
And since you mentioned long legs, this is another one
I was going to ask you about. I do want
to go back and rewatch it because there is a
lot in this film to absorb it when it comes
to symbolism.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
But what did you say, Oh, I love the movie.
I mean, this is by far and away one of
my favorite films of recent without question. I mean it
clearly looks like I mean the Mika Monroe character. I
don't know if I pronounced her name correctly, this is
the Lee Harker character. I mean obviously looks like she
could be Clarie Starling's younger sister, or Agent Scully's first

(31:23):
cousin or something. I mean, you will clearly see illusions
in there. To think movies like Seven, The Silence of
the Lambs, I mean, every time they go in long
Legs's basement, I'm ready to hear Goodbye Horses by Q
Lazarus playing over the scene. One of the things I
thought was pretty clever that they did that again, you
take another look at is when long Legs is approaching

(31:46):
Lee's house at the beginning of it. The perspective is
from the doll, the doll riding shotgun, and the reason
is because of the black veil over the eyes. So
when you're watching the movie the actual point of view
of the car approaching Lee Harker's home is from the
dollars perspective because you could see the black veil over
its eyes. Very creepy. And the other thing, I watched

(32:08):
that movie a dozen times and I just picked up
on this the other day. When the mother at the
end goes to you know, is in the house and
pulls the knife on the daughter. The knife is split second.
It's a black curved blade that is a dagger known
as an athema, and that is a stagger used in
ceremonial magic and witchcraft. So very very good point out there.

(32:31):
You'll notice also in there the number three is prevailable, preva, prevalent.
Excuse me, Lee Harker says, the number thirty three. Three
people are murdered at the camera farm, three people die
at the house at the end with three shots being fired.
And of course, if you're again familiar with Crowley, three
to three, three is the number core for the demon

(32:53):
corizone horizon. So that's another very important entity, which is
this very vicious demonic entity. So you almost have an
invocation of this demon in the movie again. Wizard of
oz Osgood Perkins directed it. The little girl's name is Ruby,
Ruby Slippers, Ruby Carter. So again you'll see Wizard of
Oz illusions all over the place on this thing, a

(33:14):
very good movie. The actual name of the character long Legs,
actually is lifted from L. Frank Baum's Wizard of Oz novel.
And if he describes an evil creature with eight long legs,
which is obviously meant to be a giant spider, this
is in the novel, it's not in the movie. And
if you watch also the movie long Legs, keep an

(33:36):
eye with the number eight. The number eight appears numerous times,
and again that's allusion back to this blurb paragraph from
the Wizard of Oz novel with eight long legs. That's
where it comes from. Out of the Wizard of Oz.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
For now, going back to the curse for a second,
I wanted to ask you if you thought that it's
possible that there may be very powerful groups or individuals
adepts that are aware of this curse that do ritual
are some sort of magic to propel it in any way.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
Possible, but unlikely. There seems to be What's the closest
way I can answer this is there's there's It seems
to be more of a kind of mesmerism. The people
are acting, perhaps unknowingly, with this force guiding them. That's
the best way I can describe it. I can tell
you this. There is no human being or group of

(34:35):
human human beings that can encode numbers like this thing
does it. It's just not humanly possible. And why would
you you know? I mean, this is a supernatural occurrence.
This is, without question a force coming out of the
world of supernatural. Can this thing have unconscious agents here

(34:55):
on earth that are doing its bidding, perhaps unconsciously? Yes, absolutely,
I do not disagree with you. There is this more
of a circumstance where it is a group of people
who are aware of this and are perpetuating it. Possible
if it is, it's a very small minority, but maybe
possible more in the entertainment industry where they have greater

(35:18):
control over it. But with things like nine to eleven
or the Kennedy assassination. I mean, yes, I will agree
with you that clearly there was a CIA involvement with JFK.
But there's like if you even now, when you read
books about the Kennedy assassination, you'll find them the author
always parkening back to something like, there's a very dark

(35:38):
force at work here. What it is, I don't know
what it is, but there is. And this dark force
that they're talking about, is this thing, is this curse
related to the procession of the equinoxes but probably called
it the equinoxes of the god gods by the way.
But it is a very dark force. It is incredibly sinister,
very macabre. I'm hesitant to go to the word demonic yet,

(36:01):
but it's clearly very dark. It's very vicious. And can
people being being used or being manipulated by this thing,
perhaps on a conscious and probably more on a subconscious level, Yes,
that I would agree with. But is there like a
coterie of skull and bones where no, I don't. I don't.
I'm not there yet. Because there is the reason I
say no is there is simply no way humanly possible

(36:25):
that people can encode these numbers into these events. It's
just impossible. I mean, it would be utterly impossible to
do it over. I mean maybe once, but not over
and over and over and over and over again.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
There are many of these films and works of art,
even literature throughout history that have this, Like you said earlier,
even predictive programming, symbolism, themes and numbers that are strung
together that connect things that seemingly should be impossible to

(36:59):
be connected any other way than by some mystical force.
And this brings me to the predictive programming like you
mentioned earlier, maybe Mandela effects, these strange things that seem
to either change or predict something in the future. What
are your thoughts on the force behind this?

Speaker 3 (37:20):
So again, it is, it is, It is multi layered,
and again I believe as just as me being a lawyer,
it's not a one size fits all. It's not a
cookie cutter answer I can give you. It just depends
on the film. I believe my my opinion has on
this has shifted over the last two years. My thoughts

(37:40):
on it are now that when you're dealing with the
the the nine to eleven imagery popping up in pop culture,
I believe that this is this is this is this,
this force, this force seems to be using pop culture
as a vehicle to continue to spread itself. So I
believe this thing sink, these this curse syncs with pop

(38:02):
culture and vice versa, because if you look at the event,
like Kennedy assassination. And you look at pop culture a
lot of times they mirror each other and you will
find these numbers or symbolisms going on at the same time.
And that's even stranger. And another thing that this curse
does that's very peculiar, that makes it even stranger, is

(38:22):
you will find it predicting itself, where you will find, like,
for example, with nine to eleven, you will if you've
looked into this, you will see that there are things
in nine to eleven then anticipate the coronavirus. And same
with the death of Princess Diana. You will clearly see
around her death the corona coronavirus was on its way basically.

(38:43):
So so I mean that's the other thing it seems
to like anticipate itself. And again one of the great
one of the great things of you know, this is
again going back to the Wizard of Oz. Is you
know who was Dorothy Gale who played her, Well was
of course Judy Garland. Well, what's a Garland? Well, Corona
a crown. Very very interesting there. So when it comes

(39:03):
to predictive program in film, I believe some of it
is coming out of the world of supernatural. I think
some of it is perhaps you know where maybe it
is a scenario where you know, it's placed in there
to anticipate an event. There have been documented evidences of
this where certainly the military has placed things into a
movie to announce that they are real. And then of

(39:26):
course you can look at the you know, the Carl Jung,
Emmanuel Schwettenbourg, you know the correspondences where basically they say,
you know, you know, as part of the collect human
condition and the collective unconscious, you know, the the idea
of doing creative things, you can incidentally encode future events
in there because of the ether. You know, you're just

(39:48):
tapping into the ether when you do a creative activity
and you can incidentally predict the future with it. So
that has to be taken into consideration. So my experience
of looking at it it is it's again, it's not
a cookie cutter answer I can give you. You have
to kind of look at the movie on an individual
basis and see what's going on with it. There are

(40:11):
I don't want to give too much away. I mean,
clearly there are a lot of things leading up to
nine to eleven. There is something that happened with the
Kennedy assassination with a television show that is off the charts.
Strange that in the book that I that I get into,
I don't want to give that away just yet. And
what's funny is in this television show, not only does

(40:33):
it almost predict the assassination of President Kennedy almost exactly,
but you will clearly see allusions in there to the coronavirus. Again,
very very peculiar. So again, you know, this is the
subject of cinema symbolism. For I have been previewing it
a little bit. I kind of started talking about it
a little more in depth, and I kind of backed

(40:54):
off of it. And the reason was I was getting
emails from people saying, hey, you know what book is
this in. It's not out yet, like I, Like I
said earlier, the book has one chapter left to right
on it and the conclusion. And then once that's done,
then I got, of course to edit it, and then
I got a format it. And that's no easy feat,
I assure you, but I can get it done. So

(41:14):
my gut feeling right now is this should probably be
out in the spring of twenty twenty six or so,
and once it comes out of I'll go on and
spill my being spill, tell yeah everything you want to
know about this.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
You mentioned jfk assassination a couple of times. I've had
some guests and researchers on recently that believe that there
may have been a ritual element behind this operation. Would
you agree with that?

Speaker 3 (41:40):
I don't know if I go so far as to
say there is a ritual operation. But again you will
find Crowley's numbers and the Wizard of Oz all over
this thing. And again I mean just from a practical standpoint,
I mean, you know, I mean who kills I mean,
who allegedly kills John F. Kennedy, the Wizard of Oz,
Lee Harvey Ozra, I mean who dispatches Lee Harvey Oswall,

(42:02):
the Ruby slip Jack Ruby. I mean the John F.
Kennedy is killed by three shots coming from a seven
story building as he approached Root seventy seven, with the
three shots coming almost seven seconds apart. And if you
look at Route seventy seven, if you go south, you

(42:23):
are at Waco, Texas, and we all know what happened
there in the early nineties. And of course Waco, the
Branch Davidian Complex sat on a seventy seven acre complex
and again this is just some of the sinks with
all this thing. So yeah, I mean as far as
the death Curses is concluded is concerned, Yes, this is
the Wizard of Oz is all over this thing. I know,

(42:46):
I've I've gotten I've looked into the ritual element as well.
I'm more interested in the Crowley thing than that that
aspect of it. Because with all of these.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Very esoteric numbers showing up in cinema and events throughout history,
this may add to the emerging theory that we are
in some sort of simulated reality. I can see where
people can correlate that because of repeating numbers seeming like

(43:21):
programming in the ether or in our reality. What are
your thoughts on the correlations between simulation theory and some
of this stuff.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
Well, here's what I would say is I don't know
if I would go along with that, because with these numbers,
they don't appear throughout history. That's what makes this so strange.
It is only up until nineteen thirty nine. Before that
you won't find it. It's only post nineteen thirty nine
when this movie becomes active, and then we begin getting
out of prices into Aquarius. However, there is one thing

(43:55):
that seems to predict this thing out, and it happened
in the late nineteenth century and the early twentyth century.
I'm not going to disclose what it is, but it
is the thing that seals the deal on this. And
once this is disclosed, it ends it. I mean, because
it's it's just too remarkable at that point in time.
So again, the curse doesn't seem to really become active

(44:16):
until nineteen thirty nine afterwards, with the procession of Equinox.
And again the reason for that is because of the
end the prices, the start of Aquarius. So I'm not
so sure that it's more of a matrix sort of thing.
I think it's more of a supernatural to me. To me,
the end conclusion that I draw out of this is

(44:37):
a supernatural is real. This to me proves the existence
of these supernatural forces sort of pulling the strings from
behind the curtain, as it were, no pun intended. That's
that's my end conclusion.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
I have to agree there is something else that seems
to be at the least pulling strings on our reality.
Like you said, let's go back to some movies from
our past, some that I really enjoyed that I know
you've done some research into starting with The Shining. You
mentioned Stanley Kubrick earlier, of course, one of the masters

(45:11):
of symbolism in our modern cinema. Talk a little bit
about what you found in The Shining.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
So The Shining, there's a lot going on in there,
and again this should be unsurprising because it's Stanley Kubrick.
And one of the things, of course, that Kubrick does
in that movie is repetition. That whole movie is nothing
but is repetition. And the reason he is repeating everything
over and over and over and over again is to
convey to your subconscious mind that the Overlook Hotel is

(45:41):
an excuse me as an Ora Boris, It's a serpent
biting its tail. It's a never ending cycle that keeps
repeating to convey that, not consciously but subconsciously. He repeats everything.
Characters say things back to each other, numbers repeat all
over the place and again. This is one of the
things that Kubrick does very expertly in The Shining, and

(46:05):
one I think the movie he gets this from when
it comes to repetition, was a movie that came out
a few years earlier, in the early seventies called Don't
Look Now and and and if you look at Kubrick's
The Shining Shining, and you look at that movie, you
will definitely see some parallels with it, with the repetition.
And I think that's where Kubrick started to pick up one. Hey,
let me start using this in in my movies. And again,

(46:28):
well let me say that, I take that back, let
me use this in a movie. And he chose The
Shining because of the whole idea of the Overlook being
basically a broken record, just you know, skipping and playing
itself over and over and over again. And of course
you have the whole concept in there. Of this is
where Kubrick reveals that he filmed the lunar you know,

(46:49):
the film, the footage of the moon landing. Now, the
idea is they actually went to the moon, but they
couldn't film there. And of course this is where Kubrick
gives us away with the boy with the you know,
Danny with the apost Low eleven rocket goes to room
two three seven. Of course, back in the late seventies
early eighties, the moon was two hundred and thirty seven
thousand miles from the Earth. The real Smoking gun on.

(47:11):
This is the movie that Kubrick made before The Shining,
which was Barry Linden and Kubrick when he filmed that.
If you're not familiar with that movie, it takes place
during the Napoleonic Wars, and Kubrick was obsessed with filming.
I mean, he was obsessed with a couple things. He
was obsessed with bathrooms. If you're familiar with Kubrick's movies,

(47:33):
usually the pivotal scenes always take place in a bathroom,
and I'm sure Kubrick got that from from Alfred Hitchcock.
Hitchcock's Psycho was the first movie to dispict a flushing toilet,
and I'm sure Kubrick picked up on that from Alfred
Hitchcock from But going back to Barry Linden, one of

(47:56):
the things Kubrick also wanted to do was filmed scenes
by candlelight. And of course you couldn't do it. They
don't throw enough light out. If you ever watch a
black and white movie or whatever, you will always see
an external, off camera lighting source, and a lot of
times you'll see and you'll see this, especially in black
and white movies that take place during the early nineteenth
century or of the Victorian era where they're in a

(48:17):
room and there's a candle burning and there's an external
lighting source off camera, and you'll see this all the
time in the Basil Rathbone Nigel Bruce Sherlock Holmes movies.
They blow out the candle and then the camera the
light goes off off camera because obviously the candle isn't
generating the light source, so they sink it. You see
it plain as day, not knocking it or anything. But

(48:38):
Kubrick was obsessed with the idea of filming scenes by
candle light. Only. Believe it or not, NASA had actually
developed a lens that would do this. It needed some tweaking,
and Kubrick I actually got permission from NASA to use
the lenses. And of course it begs the question, well,
why is NASA going to give Stanley Kubrick lenses to
film Barry Lyndon with. Of course, the answer is the

(49:00):
should answers itself. He worked for them, he was one
of their employees. So again the smoking gun with the
idea of Kubrick being employed by NASA to film the
moon landing is is you know, Barry Lindon, is your
smoking gun on that one? There is also something that
I talk about in the new book, and it's I'm
not it's I'm not gonna get into it right now,

(49:20):
but the I forget the actor's name, but the actor
who plays oh, what's his name? If you watch The Shining,
he's the guy who's sitting at the desk who rents,
who lets Jack basically be the caretaker. I can't remember
a Stuart Almond. Stuart Almond, the actor who plays him,

(49:42):
is linked to this as well. Is linked to this
idea that Kubrick filmed the moonland landing footage Stuart Olman.
I forget the name of the actor who played him.
I'd have to go look that up, but that actor
is linked into this as well. So yeah, I mean
the idea of Kubrick filming the moon landing footage doesn't
surprise me at all.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Do you think that there was symbolism that connected MK
ultra in any way in this film? I have a
friend that recently made a documentary. He speculates that there
was a lot of MK ultra symbolism in this.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
I've never looked at it from that angle. I'd have
to do some more research into it, but I guess
you know, anything's possible, but I'm not going to comment
on it because I never really have looked at it
from that angle.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
So moving on from Kubrick, I want to go to
a more recent film that I saw you covered that
I enjoyed as well, and that's Midsommar. And of course
there's some outright esoteric symbolism throughout the whole film. But
what are some of the things that maybe your normal
everyday person wouldn't notice.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
Well, okay, in Midsommar, you have references to the and
the reason you have references to the Shining is to
convey this sense of isolation that the characters are experiencing.
If you watch the beginning of Midsommar, the approach to
the camp, the harder camp is filmed from above, and
that is parkening back to Jack Torrents at the beginning

(51:18):
of the Shining driving to the Overlook hotel. That's almost verbatim.
Not Forbatum, it's almost film. The film looks the filming
of Jack driving his Volkswagen Beetle to the Overlook at
the beginning of the Shining mimics or Midsommer mimics that
imitates that when they're filming the overhead shot of the
people going to the harbor cargup, and again the idea

(51:39):
is to convey a sense of isolation. And again, if
you look, if you fast forward into that movie, the
one scene where Danny has the dream and she's sleeping
in the bunk house, pay attention to her blanket because
the blanket is the carpet pattern from the Overlook hotel.
And again the idea for that is to cany the

(52:00):
sense of isolation, of course, the isolation of the Torrents family,
conveying it to your subconscious mind by placing the carpet
on the blanket. Very interesting lots going on in Midsummar.
If you are familiar with ari Astor's first movie or
the movie you made before it, which is Hereditary, which
is another fantastic movie, revolves around the demon payment, you

(52:22):
go forward to Midsommar. In Norse mythology, the number nine
is very important. However, if you read the Lesser Key
of Solomon, the number nine the demon payment is the
ninth demon listed. So I kind of almost look at
Midsommar as a continuing conjuration of payment, because if you
watch Midsommar, you will see the number nine appear routinely

(52:47):
all over the place in Midsummmar and again if you
read if you're familiar with ours, Croatia payment is the
ninth demon listed. So very interested imagery in Midsommar. And again,
even even with Midsommar, you will find links to the
Wizard of Oz, where the girl goes to this mystical land,

(53:07):
strange land to have the gnostic epiphany to discover who
she is, and she goes with her three companions, so
again and again, and they mirror the guys. One is brainless,
one is heartless, and one is not courageous. So the
three companions mirror the three from the Wizard of Oz.
And of course Danny Dorothy similar name. Very interesting. I

(53:29):
love Midsamar. I haven't seen I haven't seen any Ariesters
movies other than Hereditary in Midsommar. I know he's made
a couple, but I haven't seen him. But those two
absolutely love. Those are fantastic.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Yeah, I liked Hereditary to what else did you see
in that film?

Speaker 3 (53:45):
Lots of allusions to the Exorcist, And that should be
unsurprising because of course both movies are about demonic possession.
So again Hereditary, you will see lots of allusions to
the Exorcism. The most common one is in the attic
is the headless mannequin. Of course it ties into the

(54:05):
movie because Payman was obsessed with decapitated heads. But if
you go back and watch The Exorcist, it been a
Chris McNeil's attic is also a headless mannequin. And again
that's that's a play. That's uh, you know, drawing one
from the other. So again, lots of allusions to the
Exorcist in Hereditary.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
There's a couple more films I want to cover. Joker.
Talk a little bit about some symbolism in here, right well, Ooker.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
Joker is a very good movie. I haven't seen the
second one, but I heard it wasn't very good. But
a Joker is all about alchemical transitioning. And you'll find
this in movies like Black Swan, The Shining and Joker,
where it's a shift from a change, it's it's out.
It's al chemical. It's a change of one character into
another character. And when that happens on screen, pay attention

(54:57):
to some color schemes and things going on. One alchemy
has symbolic colors. It's red, white, black and yellow, and
those will routinely appear. Very dark movie. Joker a lot
of allusions to John Wayne Gacy, who of course also
dressed up as a clown, the famous serial killer or
infamous serial killer. Gacy, of course was Pogo the clown,

(55:19):
and if you look at his Pogo makeup, his Pogo
makeup mirrors or is clearly the inspiration of the Joker's makeup.
And it's interesting because psychologists have said that Gasey's clown
makeup was subconscious it was designed to resemble a human skull,
and it was likely subconsciously done by Gaysey just to

(55:40):
terrorize children, not to entertain them. And of course, if
you watch if you watch Joker, the nightclub or the
comedy club that Arthur Fleck performs in is of course
pogos and Pogo the clown was, of course John Wayne
Gacy's one of his alter clown egos. So again, very
dark movie there with Joker.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
I like that, very nue We got just a few
minutes left. I know that you have to call it
a hard stop at an hour, but tell us a
little bit about what you saw in Dark City. This
is another great movie.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Oh oh, dark City is really it's funny because if
Neo Anderson hadn't coming along in The Matrix, we probably
all be talking about Dark City. Dark City is an
incredibly gnostic movie. I mean, it's almost the Matrix. It's
the same movie. I mean, and it's again has to
do with it. It's a gnostic film. It has the

(56:31):
false reality in it. It has the Arkans in it,
which are of course all the strangers. These are the
Matrix are the agent. Mister Book is clearly the great
Arkan of Basilitis the Demiurge. We get the architect, we
don't get him until part two of the Matrix. So yeah,
Dark City is a great movie. And what's interesting about
Dark City is after they got done making it, they

(56:52):
actually use some of the set design, not the set design,
the actual set, especially the rooftop set in the Matrix
movie at the end of Dark City when he's on
the rooftop, and I think the spiral staircase as well,
that you will find in the Matrix. But it's the
same set design, it's the exact same set. So yeah,
I mean those two movies are interlate, but yeah, when

(57:13):
you're dealing with dark Dark City again, that's one of
those premier gnostic movies that started popping up in the
late nineteen nineties. From when we were leaving the twentieth
century and going into the twenty first century. At the
turnover the millennium, there was the slate of gnostic movies
came out. I don't know if it was conscious or
not intentional or not, but there was this slate of

(57:35):
gnostic movies that hit in the late nineties early two thousands.
Dark City is one of them. In the Mouth of Madness,
The Matrix, Truman Show, Donnie Darko, Vanella Sky Existends. These
are all movies with this gnostic theme of the false
reality of Valentinis, you know, the demiurgic creator, the Arkans,
coming to consciousness of the false reality and again, you know,

(57:58):
coming to know that self. You will all find that
going one of the late nineties early two thousands, and
again I don't know if that was intentionally done, but
it is there with them.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
It's very interesting how you see many people, especially in
the past few years, revisiting Gnostic concepts and even immersing
themselves in Gnostic beliefs in our modern times. I wonder
if this was some sort of again predictive programming to

(58:28):
the collective consciousness that showed where we would be headed
in the future.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
Possibly, I mean that's debatable, but possible. But regardless, they
there is I mean, that slate of gnostic movies that
came out in the late nineties early two thousands. I
mean it is there and is without question that it
didn't happen.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Without giving away too much, your book's going to be,
you said, coming out next year sometime. What are some
other films that people can look for that you to
be covering.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
So I did very good, very good questions. So the
main thrust of the book, without question, is The Wizard
of Oz. Some of the other movies that I took
on is The Batman with Robert Pattison. I had started
the new Halloween movies the Halloween twenty and eighteen in
the last book, so I concluded those with Halloween kills

(59:22):
and Halloween ends they will be in there. Of course,
Late Night with the Devil is in there. Of course,
the movie Late Night with the Devil Long legs, of course,
and one of the greatest gnostic movies to be released
in modern times. Of late we talked about this slate
of Gnostic movies from the late nineties early two thousands.

(59:45):
The greatest not one of the great gnostic movies that
was recently released in the last couple of years. Very Kubrickian,
of course. I'm referring to Barbie, an incredibly not movie.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Was not expecting you to say that.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
One, very very gnostic and a remake of the Wizard
of Oz.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
I'm interesting. Interesting, Well, Robert, this was great. We'll definitely
have to have you back on sooner this time before
you go, remind the audience the best way to find
your books and more information about you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Well, thank you again for having me on Forbidden Knowledge News.
It was my pleasure to be here and again when
the book comes out, or anytime you want to have
me on, it's again my pleasure to be with you.
Uh and and do this podcast with you again. For
information about me and the books are available on all
the major online sites like Barnes and Noble, Amazon, Books
a million. If you want more information about me and

(01:00:37):
and to buy the books, just go to my website again.
It's an easy page to navigate, and it's my name.
It's www. Robert W. Sullivan four dot com. The number
Robert W. Sullivan two LS four dot com again Www.
Robert W. Sullivan dot com, and again, thank you for
having me on. It was my pleasure to be here

(01:00:57):
and I look forward to return.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Definitely love to do it again. Until next time, everyone,
have an excellent evening. We will talk again tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
We'll see you then

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Curse of Oz - Goat of Mendes & Dark Mother - Occult Cinema Symbolism | Robert Sullivan IV

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Curse of Oz - Goat of Mendes & Dark Mother - Occult Cinema Symbolism | Robert Sullivan IV