FKN Classics Double Feature! | Jack Roth - Hybrids & Mantids | Jim Penniston - Rendlesham UFO - Forbidden Knowledge News

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Merry Christmas.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Everyone.

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Enjoy these back to back throwback episodes. We'll be back
with brand new episodes of Forbidden Knowledge News tomorrow. Tonight,
I don't want to welcome Jack Roth from J three Films.
He is one of the three creators of the documentary
Extraordinary the Stan Romaneq Story and their new documentary Extraordinary

(00:27):
The Seeding. His partners are John Simple and Jamie Sernoff. Tonight,
he is here to talk about their new documentary, Extraordinary
the Seeding, which is the second in a trilogy of
films intended to take the viewers deeper into the abduction
and hybridization phenomenon. It premieres on digital platforms worldwide on

(00:48):
September third at three am Eastern. Jack, how you doing tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
I'm doing great. Thanks.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
How about you, Chris, I'm very good. Thanks for joining us,
Thanks for taking the time. I'm very excited to see
the film. I'd like to start out with a little
bit more about your background and what got you started
doing this and what brought you guys together.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Sure, well, I'm actually my background, I'm a journalist by
trade at for about twenty years and also obviously a filmmaker.
And John and I the director and one of the
producers of J three films. He and I met Gosh

(01:32):
almost almost twenty five years ago, and we had started
talking about doing some documentaries and in the paranormal realm
at that time, and we did some work. We did
some stuff in New Orleans and Savannah shot some stuff there,
and they're trying to figure out what we really wanted

(01:52):
to do. Long story short of that is I we well.
Actually I was out in Colorado about seven eight years
ago and I was looking for the story that we
were going to do. I was looking for that really
compelling story. And I went to a conference, a UFO
conference out there, and it was a Stephen Greer thing,

(02:15):
and I was, you know, listening to him. But while
I was there, I met a couple of the guys
who were working on They were investigating the Stan Romanic case.
And at the time it was like they were like,
you have to see the evidence, you have to you
have to hear about this, and they did. They showed
me the evidence. I will never forget. We went to

(02:37):
a diner in Denver that night and the night afterwards,
and the night afterwards they brought their computer and they
had been working on the case for a couple of
years with several other people, a couple of PhDs, a
quantum physicists. There were a lot of scientists involved in
in stance case. So yeah, I was just like, wow,
there's so much evidence here, there's so much interesting information

(03:00):
that this is the story we need to tell. So
that's how extraordinary the Stan Roman Story, which was our
first documentary, came to be. And then after that, when
that was got distribution, the ten ninety one media it
used to be The Orchard asked us. They said, we'll

(03:22):
make more because the Roman X story did so well.
It did better than they thought was going to do.
It did well on Netflix and all the video streaming platforms.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
So we.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Decided that we were going to continue the story. We
were going to continue telling the story we had started,
because with Stan's story, it was about one man's story
and all these experiences he had and then went into
abduction and then kind of ended. We kind of tease
the fact that at the end of that he was
dealing with these children that were calling him. These seven

(03:58):
eight year old kids were calling him on the phone
and saying, hey, Daddy, this is your daughter. Blah blah, blah,
and the inference there was that these were his hybrid children,
which were the result of the abductions that he had experienced.
So that's when we decided in the second film, Extraordinary
de Seeding, we were going to talk more about that.

(04:20):
We were going to go into the hybridization and the
hybrid kids. Can you hear me?

Speaker 3 (04:30):
I can?

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Okay, Yeah, Mike went out for a second. Yeah, that's
what I was going to ask you if you could
just give us a little overview of the film. It's,
you know, basically about the hybridization human hybrids with these ets, right.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah. Kind of the way it evolved was we had
met a couple of women while we were doing research
for stand story, and during that time, in that course
of a couple of years, we met some women who
had come forward and told us their stories about these
unexplained pregnancies that they had had, That they were experiencers,

(05:06):
they were abductees, they had had these abduction experiences, and
that they had also had these unexplained pregnancies as part
of that process, and they would have during the first
trimester of the pregnancy all of a sudden, overnight the
baby was gone and they there was no explanation for it.

(05:28):
They would go to the doctor, and then the doctor
would kind of give an explanation, as doctors don't. They
liked to have the answer to everything, you know, so
when they're like hmm, you know, they're like, Okay, that's strange,
but you're probably your body probably absorbed the baby, which
is something that is a real thing. But in a

(05:48):
lot of these cases, if the women know their bodies,
there was no evidence whatsoever of a miscarriage, nothing, nothing
at all.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
And then it was.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
The the all the other bells and whistles that you
hear about induction cases where you have you're you're being abducted,
you're remembering the abduction, you're remembering that during the abduction,
you're they're doing experiments on you, and they're they're they're
looking at your every body part. Uh, they're extracting things

(06:18):
from you, including hair, skin samples.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
And the same with men obviously, and they you know, sperm,
and so there was this there was this sexual undertone,
this this these a DNA component to what they were
doing and uh, when then what would happen with these
women is after that they would be abducted again and

(06:45):
over the course of a couple of years, they would
they would be on craft when during an abduction and
they would they would be introduced to their child, their
hybrid child, and then described the child as being kind
of human but not totally human looking, and they would

(07:07):
be introduced to that child and the maternal instinct would
kick in at that point and they would feel it
was very emotional. The whole process, the whole experience starting
with an abduction is extremely emotional. So what wind up
happening is we vetted we were on the John and
I were on the phone with at least several dozen
people hearing their stories and deciding who we wanted to

(07:30):
have in the film, and we had we chose obviously
certain people for it. And what we learned very quickly
was instead of being mostly about the phenomena, which is
important obviously, it's the abduction scenario, the hybridization programs that

(07:50):
could be involved in the abduction process, but it became
more about the journeys of these experiencers and the things
that they went through and the fact that they were
really having they were struggling, and they had post traumatic
stress disorder and they were you know, depression, anxiety, uh,

(08:13):
and it was it became their stories. It was important
for us to tell their stories in order for people
to understand that whether you believe in this or not,
it's important to have empathy for people who are going
through these things that you might not understand, but it's

(08:33):
real to them. And that's really what the the emphasis
of the movie became very good.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Now, where did you find How did you find these
people that you interviewed?

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, that's a great question. We again, we had met
some people during our first while doing our first film
and doing research for that, because you know, you go
to events and you meet one person who introduces you
to another.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
UH.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
And one of our producers, Laurie Wagner, she's amazing at
she knows everyone, and she knows a lot of people,
and she was able to put us in touch with
several individuals UH and UH and then it went from there.
So that's how we started to meet and then talk
to all of these people.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Now, I know you went through like a vetting process.
How did how did that process work? And how could
you tell if they were I mean, there's no sure
way to tell if they're telling the truth, but how
you know? I'm sure you got a gut feeling about it.
But how did that process go?

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, a couple of things. One of the things when
when you're on a phone with someone and they're you know,
you're talking to them and they're from Missouri and they're
on the phone and you know, let's take an example,
is the you know, housewife from Missouri with a couple
of kids, and and she's just sitting there and she's
just talking to you, like you're having this conversation, and
she's she's struggling. You know, she's telling you the story

(10:07):
she wants to tell about what happened to her, but
you can hear in her voice that it's it was
a harrowing experience and that she's still struggling with certain
aspects of it. And when these people tell their stories
and you hear it once and then you hear it again,
it never changes. It's just it is this is what happened.
And it's also one another thing and the other you know,

(10:29):
you know, when you get on the phone with someone
and if the first thing they ask you is well,
how much am I getting paid?

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Then you're like, okay, the red flag goes up a
little bit. Uh, and we're We're not taking away from
the fact that people need to make a living because
in a lot of cases, people's lives have been really
turned upside down, so they are like, look, you know,
i'll do this, but I need to you know whatever.
So that does happen. But you know, like you said,
it's a gut it's an instinctual, intuitive feeling that you

(10:57):
get after spending time with someone, whether speaking on the
phone with them for several hours or actually meeting them,
and when you see their emotional state, you just know,
you know, you can tell that this is this is
the real deal. It's the real deal for them. Uh
and they they're they're very credible witnesses.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Now, were there are a lot of people that you
tried to interview that just didn't want to tell their
stories and you knew there was something there, you know.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, we had some of that, and it's a little frustrating,
but we totally understood and we had We actually had
a couple of women who did tell us their stories
but then said decided they just couldn't go on camera,
and that was so it was you know, to talk
on the phone and and share their stories with us,
and we felt privileged for that, but they were just

(11:50):
honest in the end for for several reasons. Look, I
have a family. My husband doesn't believe in this, or
in some cases my wife doesn't believe in and if
I do something like this, it's just going to cause
more problems in my relationship. Some professionally is Look, I
have a really high profile job. I'm just not ready

(12:10):
to come out publicly with this. I will share all
the details with you on the phone in person, but
I can't be on I can't be on camera. Now.
What's interesting about that is one person, one of the
women in the film is was in a situation like that.
She was actually from Missouri. She was from a very
conservative area in Missouri. She had a Christian upbringing. Everyone

(12:35):
around her was, you know, very was Christian. It was
so they it was very difficult for her to talk
about this. And but what she decided to do is
she goes, I think it's important for people to hear
my story. Is it okay? And then we talked to
her about well maybe we can you know, black you
out and then maybe change your voice a little bit.

(12:55):
So she's on the she's on the she's in the film,
but her face is blacked out almost like a you know,
witness protection program, a mob show would be. So we
really that and her story is amazing, very emotional, but
again you can't actually see her face.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
What were some of the if any, recurring themes that
you came across in your interviews.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, another great question they when when it comes to
the et abduction scenario phenomena, there are a lot of
consistencies in the stories that people tell, and what you
typically come across is something happens when they're children and

(13:41):
they have a memory of when they were seven, eight
nine years old and they there was an owl in
their window and they always used to come and stare
at them in the window or there. They do remember L. E. T.
Gray Allien somehow, and they remember them being in their
room or or they remember floating out of their room
and whatever. Something like that happens, and then they have

(14:03):
these memories, uh, the ones that haven't been haven't been
through regression therapy yet. They have they do have some
memories of these experiences, but once the once they're abducted,
they usually lose all control from the standpoint of their
paralyzed or they can't they can't run there's nothing they
can do about it. They're being abducted. These ets obviously

(14:23):
have technology that's controlling their bodies and and and and
to some extent controlling their minds, and they're communicating telepathically.
So they're being abducted. Okay, So they're taking for the
most part, on board some kind of craft, and then
they're being experimented on, like you know, we would experiment with,

(14:43):
you know, some kind of animal that we tagged and
then wanted to draw blood and take a skin sample
and take a hair sample and extract sperm or extract
ov extract eggs and do all these different kinds of
experiments with eyes, every part the body. And then they
are told to you know, there's a calm most of

(15:06):
the time they see. What they describe is what we
would consider your typical grays, your smaller gray ets with
the huge eyes, almond shaped eyes, etc. It's like the
cover of Whitley Strieber's books. But there are also other

(15:26):
types of ET's that they describe, and they're usually there.
It could be a reptilian kind of et. It could
be an insectoid that kind of looks like a grasshopper.
And then there's also the tall Nordics, the tall, blonde,
rather attractive individuals, and they tend to and the stories

(15:47):
they tell, they're there, but it's the grays that are
doing the work and the other ones are supervising them.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
I'm glad you said that because it in a lot
of the cases and a lot of people I've talked to,
they always say, the insects are in charge. Is that
something you came across?

Speaker 2 (16:04):
We did, Yeah, we came across that. And then one
particular gentleman, uh in the film one of the we
we focus on three main people, and we have other
people in the obviously in the story and their stories
are in there, but there's three main individuals, and the
gentleman that we focused on he was Yes, he described
that in detail where if those were the main those

(16:25):
were they were in charge, They were the ones that
seemed like they were in control of what was going
on and h and again, the grays were more like,
I don't want to say workabes, because they're they're probably
they're brilliant scientists, they're doing the experiments, but there's there's
that kind of a relationship going on.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
How terrifying is that that insects are in charge of
all this. You got to think of you know, the
emotions are lack of that these beings may have, you know.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Right, And one of the things we tell people first
and foremost is that these people are people are being
taken against their will. Now we don't know what the
endgame is. No one knows, no no one is really
why this is happening. We're focusing on a certain aspect
of it. But the people it is an absolutely horrifying

(17:21):
experience for everyone that has it, that goes through it,
and what winds up happening is over time, like anything else,
you get more, you adapt to it, You put it
some you put it in a box that fits in
your life that you can function on a daily basis
and deal with these strange experiences that you're having. And

(17:46):
a lot of times when you see people speak or
you see them on TV or whatever it is, they've
been experiencing it for years, so but usually the first
couple of years when they're experiencing this, it is absolutely
devastating and many of them have literally have post traumatic
stress disorder, just like a soldier would come back, you know,

(18:08):
from Afghanistan or Iraq and have post traumatic stress they
are suffering from the same exact thing. That's how that's
that's how terrible it is. And that's one of the
things we wanted to focus on. We wanted people to
realize that. Look, you know, most shows you see, they
focus on the phenomena itself. You know, they focus on

(18:29):
the craft and the sky, who the ets may or
may not be, which is all important and I'm gona
have a journalism background. That stuff is extremely important, But
it's the emotional aspect, Like, you know, you you asking
that question, You're like, man, that must be horrifying that Yeah,
I think so too, Like I'm like, this must be horrifying.
And when you're sitting in front of someone and they're

(18:50):
crying and you know that you can see they're shaken up,
and it's really hard for them to tell certain parts
of the story of their experiences, it's it's, it's it's.
It has a profound emotional impact obviously on them, but
also when you hear it when you're there, it impacts
you as well.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
And you briefly touched on this, but are most of
these cases do they start when their young children?

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, that tends to be what we hear and that's again,
not every case is this exactly the same, not every
age is exactly the same, but it seems to be
that what the evidence suggests is and what I mean
by evidence is the tens of thousands of people who
are telling their stories. That's the evidence. It's these eyewitness accounts,

(19:41):
and they tend to tell stories about, you know, when
I was a kid, this happened, and you know, then
they tell this story about an ET contact where they
met this strange woman in a grocery store and a
woman looked really weird and the woman said something to
them very strange, like oh you're you know, you're a
star seed or something, you know, whatever they might say,

(20:03):
and it's like, yeah, remember that weird woman I met,
and yeah, So they do. They start, they start in
early age. And another thing we learned a little bit
of a pattern was that a lot of times it's
multi generational, so the mother, the grandmother, the father, the grandfather.
That there was some kind of abduction experiences going on

(20:25):
with them as well, and also that there was a
military connection. So people, oh, yes, my father was in
the military, or my grandfather was in the military, or
grandmother was in the military. So there's this military connection,
there's a familial, multi generational connection, and it seems as

(20:46):
if people are being chosen or tagged when they're younger,
being monitored somehow, sometimes maybe a device being put in,
which is another conversation. But uh, and then over and
then and then another thing is it almost seems like
when and a woman is a fertile age, same with
a male as reaches puberty, that's when the abductions and

(21:08):
the hybridization experiments start in earnest and they last through
the fertile period of a woman's life.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
It's very interesting. Now you mentioned military. You know they
had some kind of military background. There's there's always this
strange military connection. And it makes me wonder if you know,
not only the military is involved and they know about it,
but if they're actually conducting some of these abductions, are

(21:41):
many of them and have a lot more involvement than
we think.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's what we kind of we try
not to draw any conclusions. And as filmmakers, I want
to preface this obviously, as filmmakers, where we try to
be objective, we try to just tell the story where
sharing the information in an objective way, A logical way
and hopefully a compelling way that's and and that's entertaining audiences.

(22:10):
But yeah, I think that you know you have this.
We have to of the people in the film, Sierra
Noblina and Niera Eisley were both actually in the military.
Uh So they were in the military, and they they
had experiences and they there was a direct correlation with

(22:34):
their experiences and a military presence and a military presence
in the case of Niera Eisley in the abduction. So
while she was being abducted, she saw military people in
military uniform in the actual room. And one of our
main one of the three in the main individuals that

(22:55):
we focus on, April Malloy, said the same thing. Now,
she wasn't in the military, but she talked about actually
and in her exact words and this is uh, this
is tough to talk about even but in her exact
words said she mentioned the word rape, that she was
being raped. So there was actual penetration from an et

(23:15):
and in this case it was a reptilian, but in
the background she remembers other reptilians and then other people
in military uniform. That's a hard the thought of that
is just like come on you know, that's that's that
makes it even more horrifying and scary.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
That is terrifying. Now, you also touched on this briefly,
like the the insertion of foreign objects or implants, some
kind of chip or something. Is that something that you
came across often in your interviews, is people being implanted
with some sort of foreign object.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Well, one of the things that common things that happens
when people the next morning, the next day after an
abduction scenario, abduction event, they'll have marks on their bodies,
strange marks on their body, and it might be a
little triangle, three little dots on their arm, or scoop
marks where there was skin so someone took a sample

(24:16):
of their skin, things like that, and not in in
the case of Stan Romanic, which in our first film,
he he definitely had implants that he was being monitored.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
And and what's odd about those is those were tested
in a laboratory and it was determined that they were
both biological and mechanical in nature. And the person we
spoke to in that in that particular instance said it
was there was a biological component to it so that
the the body wouldn't reject it because our bodies tend

(24:52):
to reject foreign objects in the body, but whatever technology
they're using, they're making it so that the body is
not rejecting it. So yeah, that is another component of
the abduction phenomena.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
I want to talk a bit about the whole hybrid
human theory. I come across it so much, so many
researchers I talk to are definitely convinced that there is
some sort of hybrid program ongoing that could have been
going on for thousands of years. We don't know, but
they believe there's definitely something going on now and that

(25:28):
possibly these hybrids are walking amongst us even right now.
I have some researchers that believe that we're being slowly
replaced by these hybrids. But just your thoughts, do you
think that it's possible that we could be walking amongst
some of these hybrids that are being created and experimented.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
With I do. I believe that that's a distinct possibility.
And I'll start with saying this, that that is the
why of this equation. You have abductions, tens of thousands,

(26:08):
if not hundreds of thousands of people or across the
globe are having these experiences. But then you have to
you always ask the question, and journalism it's the why.
So you have the why, when, where, who are possibly who? Why?
Why would they be abducting all these people? And when
you look at what's happening during the abductions, there's all

(26:31):
these sexual experiments there. There's you know, sexual penetration, if not,
there's like an almost an in vitro fertilization going on
where there women are being stuck with these huge needles
and that's then all of a sudden, within a you know,
they get back and their home and they're pregnant the
next week. So there's all of this suggests that kind

(26:54):
those kinds of experiments, and then you have the result
are these people seeing their children, whether on craft they're
being introduced to their children or in the case of
Stan Romanic and some other people earthbound, where they're calling
and they're saying, you know, hey daddy, hi daddy, I'm
your daughter. You know, my name's Kioma, and I'm trying.

(27:18):
It's really hard to communicate and I can't talk for long,
but da da da whatever they're saying, and it's it's
a profound experience, it's extremely emotional experience for them. So
these children, these children. When we were finished with the
first film, I looked at I told John and Jamie,

(27:39):
my partners, I said, it's about the kids. Whatever's going on,
whatever's happening. The answer is with lies with the kids,
the children, and whether it is that we're going to
be And there's different theories on that. Well what about
these kids? Why, Well you have the one we're being colonized,

(28:01):
We're going to be replaced. And we were fortunate enough
to interview doctor David Jacobs for the third film, where
we're going to dig even go even further into this
h and David Jacobs obviously is and he believes it's
nothing's good about this, it's not good for humanity, and
that we are being colonized and that they're going to
replace us. That's that theory. The other theory is more

(28:25):
of a happier positive ascension theory, where these children are
the next step in human evolution and they're going to
allow us to become cosmic neighbors, cosmic travelers, galactic travelers.
This is the next step in human evolution. Okay, fine,
And then there's also a biblical interpretation where it's it's

(28:49):
all in the Bible. This is all written in the
Bible in one way, shape or form, and so therefore
it's all just coming true. It's all happening, and we
have to be very careful of that because this this
great deception, you know, where the ets are deceiving us.
They're not really who they say they are. So there's
all these different theories, but again it all comes back

(29:12):
down to the children, which was why we thought it
was so important to focus on this hybrid the hybridization
programs and these hybrid children.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
One of the questions that always comes up is is
it's because of certain bloodlines that these people are being abducted?
Is they're a certain genetic feature? Is there anything that
you came across that would indicate something like that?

Speaker 3 (29:38):
What are your thoughts on it?

Speaker 2 (29:41):
We had heard going into it. You always hear about
I think it's RH negative blood. And there's a certain
percentage that's a higher percentage than it should be of
people who actually have RH negative blood is low in
the population, right, but the people that amount of people,
the RH negative amount of individuals within the abduction community

(30:03):
is high higher. But part of the we our approach
to these films wasn't necessarily to do a ton of
you know, to go into laboratories and try to uh,
you know, get statistical data. I mean, if there was
statistical data available. No one's ever really done a really

(30:23):
strong statistical study to suggest that a certain blood type
is what they're looking for, But there is it. There
is a suggestion of it. There's definitely a DNA component
because if it's multi generational, they're sticking with these families,
and there's something in our DNA and there and and
this this all comes down to medical science from the standpoint.

(30:46):
If whatever technology they're using to create these hybrid children,
they are obviously there's a strong DNA component. So in
order for them to do it right, for it to
work that way they wanted to work, perhaps a certain
type of DNA or blood type works better. We can't

(31:07):
say for sure, but there there is a suggestion of that,
and it's something that really needs to be looked into further,
is what I would say. I would say that, you know,
if possible, maybe do blood work on everyone if you
canse a lot of want. A lot of people don't want.
They've already been poked and prodded and they they're they're
kind of squeamish about being poked and prodded more.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Right now, Now, do you find that most of the
experiences that people had were malevolent experiences where they were
in fear the whole time, or did you come across
any where they were not where they it was a
pleasant experience?

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Okay? That that that's probably the most important question we
can ask, because that's where I think morally we run
into issues with it, because most a very high percentage
of people that we have interviewed it is a it's

(32:05):
a malevolent experience simply because they're being taken against their will.
They're not being they're not saying they're not volunteering for this,
and so you have an overwhelming majority saying that it's
it's it was not an experience I would would have
wanted to have. To me, I would not have chosen

(32:25):
or volunteered to do it. Now, some of the actual
abduction experiences as they're being abducted, some are more harrowing
than others, some are calmer than others. And and what
you hear is that ets somehow telepathically are calming them down.
They're saying it's okay, Everything's going to be okay, and

(32:48):
people all of a sudden, they'll feel a lot calmer
about the experience because they're freaking out. They've been taken
from their bedrooms and many cases taken through their windows
or through literally through the wall, and don't even then
that's another conversation. But you know, there's this it's how
do you, how do you? How do you come to
terms with that in your head? Right? So, but it's

(33:11):
a great question because what winds up happening is some
people who have had the experience over time, over and
over again, they come to terms with it by I think,
by saying to themselves, I must have chosen to do
this before I was born, maybe in another lifetime I was.

(33:32):
It was a spiritual thing that I chose to do this.
It was an agreement, and it's for the betterment of humanity.
That's and I wouldn't you know, I can't say anything
one way or the other about that, because people have
their own experiences and this is what they're this is
what that's their paradigm, it's what they believe. And that's okay.

(33:58):
I mean, you do have people that come to terms
with it, and they come to terms with their abductors,
so to speak. To say, Okay, well they're doing it,
but you know what, I actually have One of the
people in the film, she believes that her son who
was born as a result, was born as a result
of that, they helped her and her husband have a child.

(34:22):
The child is a hybrid DNA wise, but he's for
all intentsive purpose as a human child. But they were
having trouble conceiving for years. But she was having all
these experiences and all these miscarriages. But she believes she
was abducted one night, she remembers something being done to
her and then shortly thereafter she was actually pregnant and

(34:45):
was allowed to kept this baby. So a lot, you know,
it's this weird psychological thing that goes on with people,
you know. But what I'll what I say is and
this is where there's that moral dilemma, is what no
if doing this? And that some people think this is extreme,

(35:09):
But isn't it a crime against humanity to be abducting
hundreds of thousands of people against their will? And I'm
not I am not a I try to. I do
have a positive outlook. I'm not so much about colonization
and we're all doomed.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
I do believe that one day we will evolve as
humans and we will become part of this galactic family.
I really do believe that will happen. It's the means
to an end that I think is the issue. And
I don't know if the same morality applies with these ets.
I don't think they think they're doing anything wrong. I
really don't necessarily believe they are they think they're doing

(35:50):
anything wrong. We have to consider all of it.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Right, And the most troubling part for me is that
the reports that they're the ones in charge are the
insects and the reptilians. I mean, you don't typically hear
positive things about insectoids and reptilians and all these stories
they're you know, you always hear your you know, reptilians
rule the world, they're the ones keeping us down right now.

(36:16):
But you know, there's no way to tell any of that.
But when it comes to these experiences, it just seems
like they they wouldn't be doing it to benefit us
in any way.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Uh, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean
I think if if you think about it objectively and
you accept the fact that people are being abducted by ets.
Let's say you people, you're a person who comes to
the you allow that to be a reality right in
your mind. You believe that. So, yes, people are being abducted,
They're being abducted by ets. Okay, fine, so then you ask, well,

(36:54):
you know what is you know what's going on? Why,
what's what's the what's the what's the endgame here? And
I think that a lot of people when you think
about the idea that these there are these reptilians, these
let me let me say this Clifford Stone, who is

(37:17):
a whistleblower ex military and he was he was you know,
talked about the fact that he was involved in this
crash retrieval. He was part of this crash retrieval team
for crash UFOs and he also was trained telepathically and
had a telepathic ability to be able to communicate with
the ets in these crashes. And he says, and then

(37:40):
we actually interviewed him for our third film, but that's
what will be our next one after this one. But
he said that they're fifty seven known ET species that
have been in some type of communication or contact with
our government slash military. That is a lot. When we're

(38:04):
still waiting for our radio telescopes apparently in Socorro, New Mexico,
to first get a signal from deep space that there's
even life anywhere else. So it's kind of like this
weird paradox, right, But yet our military and government knows
there's fifty seven that have already not only contacted us,
but somehow we've been working with them right in one

(38:26):
capacity or the other. So it's hard. It's hard to say,
you know, yeah, you know, like is you know reptilians?
Are there different types of reptilians?

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Are there?

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Different Are there different factions of these? Are they like
human beings? Are there good human beings and bad human beings?
Are there good reptilians and bad reptilians? Are some nicer
than others? Do some of them have better personalities? We
really have to think in those terms, you know, where Well,
the one reptilian commander is like, you know, we need

(38:58):
to treat these we're doing this for the good to humanity,
but we need and we need to treat these people
better and we need to make sure they're okay. And
then the other reptilian commander does not care. He's like
the Nazi reptilian commander who doesn't care about human beings.
You know, Like, I know this sounds kind of it
sounds science fiction y, but we have to think in
terms of there's so many factors that could go into this.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Now, dependent on what researcher you talk to, some will
tell you, oh, these people are being abducted astray, are
you know, through some interdimensional means. Some will say they're
physically being taken and they're just have a way of

(39:43):
returning you and taking you without anything being changed, without
anyone else noticing or seeing.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, well, I would
say based on our research and the experiences we've had,
we're now thinking more. I know I am at least
that it's like, well, maybe there is an interdimensional element
to this, that there is a that's how they're getting here,
that allows them to get from such long distances there

(40:12):
Actually it's an interdimensional travel instead of interplanetary and and
a lot of them are able to perhaps because and
I've heard this that you know, we're three D. We
live in a three D reality where the Earth is
fairly dense, it's a three D density, and you hear
from a lot of people, well, these these beings certain

(40:33):
beings are fifth dimension, five dimensional, eight dimensional, twelfth dimensional,
and they are of a much less dense makeup, and
therefore they it allows them to do things like go
through a wall, go through a solid wall, or you know,
do some of the things that they're doing. But there's

(40:54):
also the technology factor. The technology can be so advanced
that they can it. It goes back to Star Trek
a transporter that they're they're rearranging molecules and you're getting
from one point to the other without having to worry
about anything. No solid objects, gonna doesn't matter. So yeah, yeah,

(41:15):
they're you know, the more and more you research, the
more and more that inter dimensional thing comes up, and
it's like, huh, maybe there's some quantum physical, you know,
stuff here that we need to learn more about before
we can really understand what they're doing.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
One of the things that most people don't think about
is how traumatizing it can be for these people. You know,
thinking about one being abducted one time, having this weird
experience that you can just maybe explain away from a
bad dream or drinking too much or whatever, but being
taken night after night and having the fear of just

(41:57):
going to bed, not knowing what's going to happen that
has to be extremely traumatizing. Did you find that most
of the people you talked to a had some kind
of like PTSD after these.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Experiences, Yes, without question, they every one of them had
some kind of if not full blown PTSD, then certainly uh,
you know, anxiety issues or depression issues or uh, you know,
anything on that level of just such a such a

(42:34):
traumatic and not only traumatic, obviously traumatic, but also that
you can't wrap your head around it because of our
earthly paradigm is so we can't we can't even imagine
that some people, perhaps like us, we've been thinking about
ET's and aliens since we were kids, and we always
felt that there was that presence and that they were

(42:57):
there and that that you know, so we you know,
some people are more ahead of the game and that,
but there are people who are indoctrinated, many people on
this planet who are indoctrinated from a very young age,
whether it's religiously, socially whatever, to believe a certain thing
and this is the way things are, and there's nothing else.
So all of a sudden something happens where it just

(43:17):
completely destroys your understanding of the way things are supposed
to be, Lives are destroyed. People need to realize and
I think when people watch this film they will they
will really get to have a much better understanding of
what these people are going through. And that was our
main goal. Our main goal was to really just ask

(43:39):
that question that you just asked to say, are these people?
What are these people going through? It's not just that, oh,
you know, hey, I got abducted and I think I
might have hybrid kids. Isn't that cool? That might sound cool,
you know, but the going through it is harrowing. Divorces family,

(43:59):
you know, ruining relationships with other family members, being shunned professionally,
being shunned socially, becoming extremely isolated. Almost every person we
talk to there is a sense of isolation because no

(44:19):
one's going to believe me. Very few people are going
to believe me when I tell them this. I can't
tell them this. And it's usually until they meet that
other person who's gone through it that they feel like
they found their family, they found others, and that's why
it's so important. In this film, we interview Yvonne Smith
and Barbara Lamb, who are both regression therapists. They live

(44:41):
in California, and they have support groups, and there are
support groups all over the country where people can meet
other experiencers. And the power of that, of being able
to sit with other people and say this happened to me,
and then they look at you and say, we understand
because it happened to us. That is incredibly healing. And

(45:07):
it's it I get emotional just talking about it, because
it's it's like anything else. It's like a drug addict
being in a room with others saying I'm a drug
addict too, I know what it feels like. Or I've
I've gotten a divorce, I know what that feels like.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
There's so probably thousands of people out there that are
just dying to tell the story, but they're they're too afraid,
you know, they're afraid of being ridiculed. But I think
that people are more understanding than than we think. I
think that, especially nowadays, people are starting to kind of
wake up to some of the things that are going on,

(45:44):
and you know, they'd really be more understanding than a
lot of people think. They just have to actually come
out and tell the story. And you know, it's it's
people like us, people like you that are making these
films and doing these things to help people kind of
come out and do that and and that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, that's that's huge. And I and you're right, I
do believe that we are getting better. We have gotten
better about that, that we're more you would hope, that
we're becoming more evolved, and that we're becoming more empathetic
and sympathetic to others going through whatever they're going through,
even though we haven't gone through it. And I think

(46:24):
that that's. Yeah, I do believe that. But I do
believe also that you're right about the fact that most
abductees have not come forward with their stories. So that's
why a lot of people think the numbers could be staggering,
staggering worldwide because most people haven't haven't said anything.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
And I'm you know, I'm sure in a lot of cases,
not only it's not that they haven't said anything, it's
you know, people aren't sure. They might have had experiences
where they think they may have been abducted, but they
don't know. You know. I just had a friend the
other day that showed me scoop marks that she had
in our arm that weren't there, and they very much

(47:03):
look like typical scoop marks, but again probably not going
to come out and say anything because they're not sure.
But there's probably, like you said, thousands countless of cases
just like this where people just need the motivation to
come out and talk about it, right and hopefully by
seeing this film. Our goal all along was to reach

(47:25):
the most people possible with these films. We didn't want
to make these films necessarily for people who already believed,
and the bunkers are always going to be the bunkers.
So really, if there was a bell curve, we wanted
to hit the center of the bell curve. I think
most people lie in the middle. Most people have thought
about it, they would consider it at this point. I

(47:48):
think most more and more people like, of course there's
life on other planets. At this point, there's intelligent life
probably elsewhere, So we're getting to that point. And I
think it's really for that we want. We want this
to reach as many people as possible, so it could
help as many people as possible, and and again that
that's been our goal from the beginning. Have you, personally

(48:11):
or any of your partners have ever had any contact experiences, uh.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
For we've had experiences I can speak for, so it's
it's me John Jamie or the three JS. Lourie is
another one of our producers. None of us believe, or
at least know consciously, that we've been adducted, So that's
that we're not coming from that standpoint. We don't believe

(48:40):
that we have been, but we have had interesting experiences
as a result of the work we're doing. I could,
I could tell you one story if you'd like. That's
that's pretty amazing and it's a result of us being
involved in this, if it's okay, yeah, okay, So what
happened when we started When when we first got involved

(49:02):
doing our first documentary with the Stan Romanick story, we
were told by people that once you decide to make
this film, you need to be ready for what's going
to happen, because anyone who ever gets involved in his case,
all of a sudden, weird things start happening. You start
getting strange phone calls, you might even have someone following you.

(49:22):
There is there's most certainly some kind of there's someone
watching what's happening to him and cares about what's happening
to him. So we knew we had to be ready
for that. So we started when we were almost immediately
when we started communicating with him, we started getting strange
phone calls and we couldn't determine who they were coming from.

(49:46):
It was a human voice, obviously, but it was a
It was kind of like one of those they called
the nickname for. We called it Audrey Art Audrey calls.
And the reason why is there's actually a program called
Audrey that's a voice manipulation system, so you can actually

(50:08):
use it and then you sound like a British woman
even though that's not your voice. So we would get
these phone calls, you know, very strange, and it was weird,
like my cell phone would call my home phone. John's
home phone would call his cell phone. He's in Seattle,
I'm in Florida. Laurie, who's in California, her cell phone
would ring and John would be calling her, but John

(50:29):
wasn't calling her. But then when we all picked up
the phone, we were all on so we were like hello, Hello,
and we're all on the phone. We're on the same line.
And then what would happen is we'd hear interference, and
almost every time we'd get disconnected the first time, and
sometimes we'd get disconnected the second time, but by the

(50:52):
third time we'd all get connected again, and we knew
it was going to happen after a while. And then
this voice would come on, this very polite British woman's voice,
which was obviously not really a British woman, and she
would say, hello, can you hear us? Every time the
same thing, Hello, can you hear us? Yes, we can

(51:14):
hear you, eh, and she would say, We're sorry that
we got disconnected, but it is very difficult to communicate
from such long distances. Okay, we want you to know
that it is keep doing what you're doing. It is
important that stand story gets out. There are people who

(51:36):
don't want this story to how you say, see the
light of day, but know that we're working on that
and you are safe. Wow, I mean, And we got
maybe I got four or five John same amount like
but all told, probably we got seven or eight of

(51:58):
these calls during the course of the year a year
or so, and in the weird and sometimes Stan was
on the phone with us, like literally on the phone
talking with us, and all of a sudden this would happen,
and we we actually we did our we did our
due diligence. We called John had a relative who was
in the work for the phone company, and he asked him.

(52:19):
He described exactly how these calls happened and said, is
it possible for people for that to happen? Can someone
pretty easily do that? And he said, and he worked
for the phone company for like twenty five years, retired
as a phone company guy, and he said, it's possible,
but it's government. It has to be high level to

(52:43):
have that kind of technology. The guy in his basement
down the street is not playing a hoax on you.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Now.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
He didn't say it was ets or anything. He didn't
say it was, you know, the NSA. But what he
said was it is high level technology in order to
be able to do that. Very very strange. So we're,
you know, we're left with that. We're left with who
was talking to us? And and actually stan Stan himself
had gotten phone calls from these little girls and it

(53:11):
was little Those were not a British female, you know,
mechanical voice that were These were little girls saying hi,
daddy and then getting disconnected and then saying sorry, daddy.
You know, but we're trying to communicate with you from
very far distances and it's hard to communicate and they
would say things like that to him and we those

(53:32):
those were recorded and they're in the film. But those
those some of those calls were recorded, and that will
blow your mind. I that changed me forever because I
was I was like, what in the world like We
had to sit there and look at each other and say,
did he tease just communicate with us?

Speaker 1 (53:53):
That's amazing?

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Yeah, So it was. That was and that was the
beginning of some high strangeness when it when it came
to to what we were going through. So but that's
not you know, we didn't focus on what's happened to
us during all this and it's it's really not about us.
It's about the people that we have in the film.
But yeah, yeah, pretty, it's sometimes you get you go

(54:15):
down a rabbit hole and you got to be ready
for what you experience.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
You know. Definitely, did any of the people you interviewed
have regressions done?

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Yes, they did. We had several that did do regressions
and they were far enough along in their journey that
they they reached out and they had had regressions. And
that's why we had Barbara Lamb and Yvonne Smith on
the on the in the in the movie because they
they talked about the regression process and what they do,
and because you know, there's always controversy and everything, you know,

(54:49):
people say, well, regression doesn't was really not a reliable
kind of thing to do because there's a lot of
suggestion associated with it from the person who's doing the
actual regression. But we found that in the case of
Yvonne and Barbara, and there's others all across the country.
Then for the most part, they're extremely professional and their

(55:13):
number one priority is their patience is the people they're regressing.
They want to make sure that they're safe, that they're okay,
and that they feel safe when they're doing the regressions.
And the regressions help because the regressions they call it
regression therapy for a reason. People have regression therapy for
other reasons. They have regression therapy, perhaps to stop smoking,

(55:35):
or to you know, for childhood trauma, for other kinds
of childhood traumas and sometimes past life trauma. With Brian Weiss,
that's what he did. So what normally happens is more
memories come to the surface, so they come to the

(55:56):
come to the surface, and they allow people to be
able to deal with what happened to them. The more
they know, the more they can understand, the less frightening
it is. That still doesn't mean if you do a
regression session and you find out that, oh my god,
they did this to me, that's not necessarily a good

(56:17):
thing that comes up. But the fact that it actually
now is out and you can talk about it is
helpful to the human psyche. So that's why that I
believe regression therapy is an important part of this as
far as experiencers are concerned.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
What are your thoughts on where disclosure is going Now?
We've had some interesting things happen with the leaks, you know,
the military leaks, different whistleblowers coming out. My personal thoughts,
I think it's all controlled. I think yeah, I mean,

(56:58):
it's definitely for a reason. I don't know if it's
a good reason or a bad reason. I don't really
trust some of the sources that it's coming from, but
it's something. They are definitely doing it for a reason.
What are your thoughts on what's going on? I mean,
it's like alien madness out there now, it is.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
And I totally agree with you. And now this is
just my personal opinion. There's again, no one knows what's happened,
what's going to happen. No one knows what's happening for sure.
So but I do believe that it's a controlled kind
of soft disclosure. I think it's a slow drip. And

(57:39):
what I mean by that is I think that they're
putting stuff out there just to see how everyone's going
to react and to say, oh, yeah, well the military
that you know, the Pentagon did know, and they did
they were interested in this, and there are cases that
are blah blah blah. So it kind of it warms
people up a little more to the idea that perhaps

(57:59):
one day we will get that the biggie will come
where it's like, yes, there are et life exists, and
there we know who they are. But here's the problem
that I have, and I tell people this, and I
hate this because I feel like over the years of
doing all the research that we've done and meeting the
people and interviewing the people that we've interviewed, that I've

(58:20):
become a little more jaded in the way I think
about disclosure. Because if I just don't think that disclosure
is going to come from the government or the military,
I don't think that they can at this point because
they've covered it up for so long.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
Now.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
If they just covered it up and said national security,
they could spin that in a way that would work.
They could say, look, the reason why we'd never said anything.
This all started during the Cold War, when we've realized
in the forties that there was something else we were
being visited. We could not share that information because it
would have caused panic and the Russians. We didn't know

(59:01):
what the Russians knew, what they didn't know. They could
I and I would back that up. I'd say national security.
There is a place for that, absolutely. But how do
they explain the abductions. How do they explain the because
because that becomes someone needs to pay for those for that,

(59:22):
someone needs to Even if the military wasn't involved directly
with the abductions, but if it was, if it comes
out that the military perhaps made an agreement in the
fifties or the forties with an et race to say,
which is out there the whole Eisenhower thing where it
was like, okay, you give us technology and we'll let
you abduct a certain amount of people and a center

(59:42):
and a certain amount of cows, or whatever, whatever kind
of agreement they made, right, how do you justify that?
You can't justify that because there's going to be a
lot of people that scream crimes against humanity because they should,
because people are being abducted against their will. So how
does the government get around that? How? So I always
tell people we we're the disclosure. It's us. We're the

(01:00:04):
ones who were going to at some point, we're going
to reach a critical mass and a tipping point where
we get over it. We get over that tipping point
and more people believe it's like, come on, man, enough's enough.
Where two million people are going to show up at
Area fifty one and storm the gates or whatever's going
to happen, you know what I mean? Where it's just

(01:00:25):
the government has no choice, and they might have scapegoats.
They might say, well, those guys in the fifties and
sixties who are dead now are the ones that made
that arrangement. We've been trying to get out of it
ever since because we don't believe in abduction. But we
figured it out now. But those guys, yeah, they they
were kind of It's like saying, we're gonna tell you
who killed Kennedy in twenty and forty because everyone who

(01:00:48):
killed who might have been responsible for killing Kennedy is
dead now, so there's nothing you can do to them.
The government has its ways, so that might be what
they do. They might say, well, yeah, in the forties
and fifties, these guys they did then is terrible and
we've been trying to correct that, and we're the good guys.
They'll spin it, but I would rather them spin it
and tell white lies, but at least tell us.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Definitely. I want to thank you so much again for
coming on tonight before you go, Is there any overall takeaways?
Are just important messages that you want to leave us
with that you you know that you came out from
all of this.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
With right, you know, and thanks for asking that because
I that I think that's important. And what I would
say is this the important thing to remember when you
watch this film, and again it's extraordinary. The seeding coming
out September third, all digital platforms, over two hundred digital platforms,

(01:01:48):
all across all across the planet, all across the globe.
The thing to remember is is that whether you believe
or not that these things are happening, people are having
these experiences, and they are going through a lot, they're struggling,

(01:02:11):
they're suffering from post traumatic stress. These are not pleasant
experiences in many cases. And what I would say to
people is when you watch the movie, listen to these people,
listen to their stories, and try to open your mind
and start having conversations with people around you about these things,

(01:02:33):
and to try to be more empathetic to your fellow
human beings who are going through something that you may
not understand, you might not at all, but the fact
is they're going through it, and as a human being,
have a little have more empathy, open your arms to
them a little bit, you know, and be supportive so

(01:02:54):
they're not so isolated. And that's the message I would say.
You know, there's a lot of information in the and
there's a lot about the actual phenomena, but it's really
when people watch this, they're gonna I think they're gonna
come away feeling with feeling for these people, having that
strong emotional pull towards these individuals who are having the experiences.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Very good. I want to thank you so much again
for coming on, and we're definitely gonna have to have
you back tonight. I don't want to Welcome Jim Peniston.
He is the United States Air Force Security Forces retired,
serving over twenty years active duty. He was assigned to
the Strategic Air Command Elite Guard in Omaha, Nebraska, providing
security for general officers, congressman, foreign heads of state, the President,

(01:03:40):
and members of his cabinet. He held key assignments throughout
the world, including Service and Desert Shield and Desert Storm.
He wrote defense security, counter terrorism, and contingency plans for
the United States Air Force and NATO. Additionally, he provided
security support for Air Force one and other classified aircraft
with weapons systems. He is also the co author of

(01:04:03):
the Rendalshim Enigma. Jim, welcome. How are you doing tonight.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
I'm doing great, Chris.

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
That you got through that that loved me part of
it without getting tongue tied.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
I thought you get tongue tighted with some of that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Almost a little bit. But yeah, I got through it
pretty good. And thank you so much for joining us.
I've been looking forward to this because your story has
become one of the most compelling and fascinating accounts I
believe in the history of euthology. The Rendall Sham Force
Incident of nineteen eighty and you experienced this first hand,

(01:04:41):
this fascinating encounter. We get to hear all about tonight.
So I know you've told this story probably one hundreds,
maybe thousands of times, but it's such a fascinating story,
and I'm sure there's plenty of my audience that hasn't
even heard it yet. So take us through that night
in Rendos Forest in nineteen eighty. What happened?

Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
Okay, let me set it up just a little bit
where it's at. It was nineteen eighty. I arrived there
in July of eighty, and this is December nineteen eighty.
Matter of fact, was December twenty six. And it was
twin bases. It fell on the operational control of Arif
Bentwa Waters. The twin bases were separated by three miles,

(01:05:30):
which was rental forest in between them. And it was
located about sixteen miles I would say, northeast of London,
so it sat right on the coastline of the North Sea,
maybe about four or five miles in.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
It was the height of the Cold War.

Speaker 4 (01:05:49):
We had a different type of terrorism, you know, Bottom Mine,
haff Black September, the ra things like that. All history now,
all history now, So and different type of terrorism. We
also were under threat of Russian or Solviet type observance

(01:06:14):
and that they were constantly testing our abilding and that
so it was pretty intense time. Belt Waters and Woodbridge
also had under its control two C three facilities, which
is communications. One was that marsh from Heath a couple

(01:06:34):
of miles away, and otherwise that broad Sea which was
not too far away, maybe four or five miles. We
had forward operating locations in Germany in case of war.
We had six squadrons of a ten and their job
was during the event of you know, war with the

(01:06:55):
Soviets back in those days, they would have took five
thousand tanks crossed the Rhine and it was a tens
are noted for being tenk killers and they would have
went to the forward operating locations and you know, hopefully
destroyed five thousand tanks. The base had a total of

(01:07:15):
ten thousand people. Of that about seven thousand were active duty.
To the rest of independents. That sets up where it's
at and what we did. My job that night was
a night like every other night at worked.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
We were working twelve hour shifts.

Speaker 4 (01:07:35):
Law enforcement, which is separate entity, was working eight hour
shifts and I had just posted my guys at ari
IF Woodbridge and Startie McCauley, the START leader of the
Security response leader was posting them in restrict areas and

(01:07:56):
stuff around there. I was doing my checklist, so I
was running, you know, like simple mundane things like lightning
checks for the perimeter and things like that. Anyway, we
completed all them and uh Started mcaully got with me
and says, you know, how about you know, during morning breakfast.
So I headed to the chow hall around midnight and

(01:08:20):
to meet the START mccaully. After arriving there, you know,
I just poured a cup of coffee and started call.
He said, you hear the radio and I said no,
I didn't hear it. He says, they're trying to get
a hold of your central security control and I said okay.
And so we have a direct line from the dining

(01:08:41):
facility at Woodbridge to central security control at Baentwaters. So
I go over and pick up the phone and starting coffee.
The senior controller answers and I said, what's going.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
On, Dave?

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
And he says, you need to get out to the
East Gate. We have a situation out there. I said okay.
I said, uh, what's what's going on? He said the
too long for his control. Well, brief you when you
get there. I said okay, and he says, and runcoat too,

(01:09:15):
and I said, co two with lights on.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
He goes yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:09:18):
He says, is there something you know wrong out there?
He goes no, he said, oll brief. When they get there,
he says, you're in no danger. I said okay. So
I hit it out there and it's, you know, going
forty five miles an hour. It takes a couple of
minutes to get to the escape from the chaw hal.
I arrive the first person, I see a sergeant. Oh boy,

(01:09:40):
what's his name? Sergeant Stephens, Bud Stephens. And I said,
what's going on? But he points over to the run
forest area and I looked over and you can see
where the tree line was. You can see a bubble
of light over the top of the forest canopy, and
then in the forest it self you see multicolor lights

(01:10:03):
flashing in and out. And at that point in time,
I've probably been to twenty twenty one twenty two aircraft
crashes quite a few. And I says, did you see
a crash? And he goes no, he says, I didn't crash.

Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
It landed. I says, what do you think it was
a chopper?

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
And he goes no, he says, I don't know what
it was. And the thing was rindleshom. The Forestry Service
plants those trees in like every ten years. They'll cut
them down and then replan them. And those trees are
all about five to six feet apart. So there's no
way anything could land inside the forest. Okay, it just

(01:10:47):
is not possible. So I went over to the direct
line of these gate had law enforcement death passed me
through the security control and I said, uh, yeah, I'm
observing you know lights in the woods. I said, it
has a dormal light over the top of the forest canopy.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
I was going in to detail like that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
And when when I when I called central Security Control,
when when they pick up the line, there's like five
people on the line at one time. I mean there's
like the shift commander, the flight sergeant for Bentwaters, security controller,
the complodder. Okay, there's just a lot of people because
everybody's going to be doing different things depending on what

(01:11:29):
I say. And well, I was talking to the to
the flight lieutenant about it, and I said, no, I
don't hear any noise, I says, but I said, appears
to be a fire. I said, possible aircraft, even though
it didn't seem like one. It was the only thing
I could rationalize at the time. And about fifteen seconds later,

(01:11:51):
starting coffee comes back in line. He was in contact
with London hethrow radar and also broad Sea and they
guests spent Water radar and apparently they had lost according
to him, has lost contact with a craft about fifteen

(01:12:11):
minutes prior to me calling the control center over the
Woodbridge base. So that was a probability that was an
aircraft crash, and since there was no transponder on it,
we figured it was military because Heathrow couldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
Track it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:36):
Right, I mean, they didn't know what it was. All
they had NIR screens or blips. And at that point
in time, because of the Status of Forces agreements with
the British, we had to have emergency situation off base
to deploy as part of our agreement with the British

(01:12:58):
and st I guess it was Lieutenant England, the shift commander,
had gotten a hold of the win command post and
through them got to hold the base commander Colonel Conrad
and got permission for us to deploy off base. And
so I took myself into airmen. One was the law

(01:13:21):
enforcement airman and the other one was a security airman.
And I had a radio. The security airman had a radio.
And what are my job was going to be is
to go off base, set up an enter control point
that we could use as an emergency entry for responding
forces and or first responders like fire department, you know,

(01:13:48):
and stuff like that. And so I had the crash
kid inside the jeep and I pulled out the plotting
board so I could where the under control point was
going to go. And I said, I pulled out some
binoculars and a camera, and we used a camera for

(01:14:12):
other things besides the crash kit. We used them for
people we observed amound the perimeter. Of taking pictures of us,
we took pictures of them things like that. And so
we started to deploy without weapons off base. And like
I said, the Forestry Service cuts these like a crop

(01:14:33):
the forest every ten years or so, and they do
sections of it. So at that time they had been
cut maybe for one hundred and fifty two hundred yards.
It was all clear field. But they had berms of earth.
That's where the tree planets usually went. So I went
down a logging road as far as I could go

(01:14:56):
without tipping over the cheap and I figured this as
far as I'm going to go at one point, and
it was maybe you know, fifty to seventy five yards
from the tree line, and I can still see multiple
color lights in the forest, but mostly it was becoming
more of a dull white light coming out of it.

(01:15:19):
All these things are things not inherent with aircraft crashes.
By the way, there was no smell of fuel, there
was no nothing burning, nothing like that. So I was
perplexed at you know, from that point set up there
to control point. I set up aeron Cabanzac. He was

(01:15:39):
a security airman and he was one of the radio
I had one. He did, and I was also having problems.
He's going to be the nenter controller. He would help,
you know, the responding forces go through that area. They
usually probably put their vehicles up that far and probably
have to walk like I was going to do. And

(01:16:04):
I was also getting a radio difficulty with the control center.
I couldn't I couldn't hear them properly.

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
So what I did is.

Speaker 4 (01:16:14):
I said that Combanzach was going to be set up
as a radio relay. He could relay between him and
starting Chandler, who was the flight sergeant from Bellwaters had
arrived at that time at the East gate. Took my
position over and I said, you go ahead and relate
my messages to Starden Chandler and he'll really am to.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
The control center.

Speaker 4 (01:16:36):
Which was really unusual because the twin bases at that
time we had repeating systems all over the base radio repeaters.
There's no way you get a dead spot. Okay, anyway,
myself in the law enforcement Aron started toward the tree
line at Rendilstrom and you know, as we're getting close, girl,

(01:17:00):
I could see no color. It was just now white,
dull light coming out of the forest. And uh, as
we you know, as I approached it, you know, I
was starting to you know, feel you know, tingling like
a static electricity, my skin on my face, my hair,
clothing right, and I did have my camera from the

(01:17:24):
crash kits, so I was just like flipping, you know,
taking pictures. We had roll film at the time, thirty
five millimeter, so I was snapping away because this doesn't
look like.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
An aircraft crash.

Speaker 4 (01:17:35):
And the other thing we were we weren't armed because
we thought it was going to be a response, you know,
for the crash. And as I, you know, I got
to the perimeter of the forest, I found as I
entered it there was a more physical effects happening. First

(01:18:00):
of all, it was dead silence, there was no noise
at all. Then on top of that, I found that
as I was coming toward the burm that was sort
of in front of this white light, my movements became labored.
The best way to describe that would be walking waste

(01:18:25):
through a pool of water. You know, I was actually
labored trying to walk. Yeah, so it's no longer an
aircraft crash. I call it even though I can't receive,
I'm still calling it on the radial. And so I

(01:18:48):
terminated the security response option for a aircraft crash, and
I initiated a healthy hand situation, which is a possible
hostile threat to the the ap or C resources at
the twin basis because I knew it wasn't a crash.
And as I started toward the burn, there was a

(01:19:12):
flash to light, I mean a huge flash of light,
white light. So I hit the ground the rameer with me,
who was back twenty five feet to my right rear.
He hit the ground, and you know, then I got
up because I guess it was you know, it was
a reactionary because there was no explosion. I was expecting

(01:19:37):
that that's what was happening, and uh so it was
just a flash of light, and then the flash of
light started to get dimmer. Back to my left was
about setting five feet was Ermenkanvanzak. He was where I
set him up for the after troll point. The other

(01:19:59):
thing I noticed as I came up toward the burm
is now I can walk better, my feeling of labor
movements is not as strong. But there was a really
strange I mean, I'm about maybe ten feet from going
over this earth and burm, and what was really strange

(01:20:21):
is it was like I was in a bubble like
around this craft and that which would be the craft,
I didn't see it yet, and that fifteen twenty feet
was right around me.

Speaker 3 (01:20:32):
It seemed like a bubble of meaning that the.

Speaker 4 (01:20:37):
Light from the craft was you could see it on
you know, the sides and top of you know, above me,
and then the outside of what I seen there was
the law enforcement M and he was back there to
the right. He was just standing there, emotionless, standing up
And I looked back to the COMMANDZAK and he wasn't

(01:20:59):
moving in a there. So I continue to make my
security checks with the radio even though I wasn't getting
anything back. And as I went over, the BOM.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
Said they were just standing there. They weren't moving.

Speaker 4 (01:21:13):
No, no, they weren't. I don't know if they were
scared to death. I don't know what was going on.

Speaker 3 (01:21:18):
Okay, I have no idea.

Speaker 4 (01:21:22):
They were just motionless, but it could have been the
effect of this area that I was in immediately around
you know this object, right, That's what I'm saying. Uh.
But as I came over the BERM, this white bright
light was started to dim down. I mean it was dissipating,

(01:21:44):
and it started to dissipate to the point where I
could see a structured craft, triangular craft, and eventually just
dissipated right down to where all I seen was a
black craft with excuse me, glob your lights running through

(01:22:07):
the fabric of the skin of the craft. There were
red and blue and green, and they're just different colors yellow,
and they were moving quite fast through the craft, and
eventually the only white light that was coming out of
the craft was at the bottom of the craft. And

(01:22:29):
I'm out of pictures, uh film at that point in time,
and it wouldn't have made no difference anyway, but I
was out of film. And then the globe your lighting
started to slow and then it just dissipated through the
craft and it was nothing there but a black craft,
a triangle in shape.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
And it was was it like a a matte black
or a metallic shiny black?

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
It was?

Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
It was a The best way to describe it is
it would be like black glass. Okay, So if you
had black glass, you'd have it had some it was,
you had some reflection on it off it okay, right,
But still I had this white light coming out funerneath

(01:23:20):
the craft. So I don't have too many options right now.
I don't know whether or not that this is hostile
or it's gone.

Speaker 3 (01:23:31):
Who knows. I didn't know. I had a lot of
things running through my mind.

Speaker 1 (01:23:36):
How large was this? Again?

Speaker 4 (01:23:38):
Well, what I did is I tried to investigate as
best I could. I had no measuring stuff, so I
had to do what I had, had to use what
I had, and what I did is I pasted it
off three large paces for is nine feet. It stood

(01:23:58):
about six and a half seven feet. Because I'm six
foot two, I'm guessing I'm making estimates there, and I was.
I was fascinating because all it's there is is this
is black craft down. It has a large dorsal fin
coming up out of the back.

Speaker 3 (01:24:17):
Like aureocraft have something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:24:21):
And so I'm wondering how it's fixed to the ground.

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:24:28):
So I look underneath it, and you know, all I
see is this white light coming down. But I can
see the inventions in the ground. There's three of them,
but always light. And I'm using the word light because
that's the only well I know how to explain this technology.
Obviously it's not light, and so I'm saying, somehow this

(01:24:51):
is being supported by this slight. So I pushed on
the craft to see if we move. Uh, and if
it was a car out there, Uh, you could actually
move a car. It would move an inch or two
if you're pushing on it. Yeah, and this was this
is solid. It did not move at all. So perplexed,

(01:25:14):
so I started to uh take my take notes, started
writing down on part of my investigations. Like I said,
I paced off the craft, so it measured you know,
ecilater ninety feet on east side and about six and
a half seven feet high.

Speaker 3 (01:25:34):
And uh.

Speaker 4 (01:25:37):
Think the air temperature at that time, uh that at
that day that night was I find this out later,
by the way, it was thirty two to thirty three
degrees that's where it was hovering around. But the craft
was warm to touch.

Speaker 3 (01:25:55):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:25:56):
Later I find out it's probably because of the Debata radiation. Yeah,
I was just thinking, yeah, I was that. We find
that out later from the investigation team in the morning.

Speaker 1 (01:26:06):
But it appeared to have any type of like propulsion
systems or anything like that.

Speaker 4 (01:26:12):
Well, that's that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for
things that make that allow aircraft to fly. I looked
for flaps, I looked for arions. I looked for crew compartments.
I looked for openings. I looked for anything intakes. I
looked for exhaust. It was void of all those things.
It was just completely molded, solid.

Speaker 3 (01:26:38):
Craft.

Speaker 4 (01:26:39):
I mean, it wasn't even riveting. It was that that smooth.
So as I did my three sixty walk around on this,
you know, taking my notes, I come back around the
far side of it all, and I see some type

(01:27:01):
of writing on it, and I go, oh, well that
that's hopeful, you know, you know, probably saying Nassau or
US Air Force or you know, solveet or something.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:27:14):
Yeah, yeah, And because I gotta, I got a lot
of doubts going on what it is. And because I'll
tell you what, up to that point, when I was
an off it part of my work with you know,
besides being you know, bodyguards for generals and stuff like that,
we also did security for classified briefings for research and

(01:27:37):
development things like that. And I've seen what was you know,
on the uh planning for the next fifty years for aircraft,
you know, and this is nothing like what I was,
you know, was sitting in front of me.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Now, did you believe in UFOs before this incident?

Speaker 3 (01:28:01):
No? No?

Speaker 4 (01:28:02):
I uh no, I no. I didn't think too much
of people that thought about that. You know, I believe
in that stuff. I just thought, I was, you know,
they're crazy. Anybody believes in that stuff. So the answer
is no. Uh. I left I left the woods thinking, uh,

(01:28:25):
something totally different though, So so.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
You were making your walk around the craft.

Speaker 4 (01:28:31):
Yes, and uh, anyway, so I get closer, I see
that they they're not writing and stuff. It's it's sort
of like glyphs or symbols on the side of the craft,
and you know, I stretched my arms out, you know,
so it was about these there's like the main part

(01:28:52):
of the symbols were on the bottom, and there was
on top there was a a triangle one with a
circle around it, and the ones in the bottom they
measured about five inches high, that's how they were. I'm
using my hand to figure that out. They were about
three three and a half feet long on the bottom,

(01:29:15):
and there was this one on of course, the top
of the triangle one, and that was bigger than the
rest of them, by the way, it was more like
a pie plate.

Speaker 3 (01:29:25):
And then.

Speaker 4 (01:29:28):
I started back around recorded them, did another three sixty
walk around because I am going from no longer scared
to in awe of what's in front of me. And
it looks like it's somewhat safe because I'm still there,
and so the anxiety was going down just a little bit.

(01:29:51):
I went back around and I was fascinated by the
glyphs themselves. So I was feeling the you know, the
fabric which is just glass like smooth, but it was metal. Okay,
there's no doubt it was some kind of metal, but
it wasn't glass. Just felt that way. And so the

(01:30:11):
first bottom symbol I felt, it was went from that
smoothness to the to the glyph was like from black
class to sandpaper. Okay, so it was like it was
etched in the craft. So I was feeling the bottom symbols,

(01:30:32):
but the one that fascinating it was the bigger one
that was on top of them. It was the triangular
one with the big circle around it and the two
smaller or the three smaller circles on it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:42):
And so I touched that.

Speaker 4 (01:30:47):
Curiosity, and there was a brilliant, for lack of better words,
bright white light so bright I couldn't see anything else.
And I see nothing, but then symbols like ones is,
so once is zero's, one zero's, but there still is
no sound or anything going on, and I gained my senses.

(01:31:08):
I don't know how long I had my hand on there,
but it wasn't long, and I gained my sense and
I just lifted my hand off and immediately stopped. Everything
was back to normal, as normal as could be, I guess.
And the reason I say that it was. It wasn't
a light per se, because that force is black. I mean,

(01:31:33):
it's so dark out there except for the light that
was coming off underneath the craft. It was his pitch
black and I immediately had my night vision after I
took my hand off. So it was not light because
that would have took forty five minutes or thirty minutes
a minimum.

Speaker 3 (01:31:51):
To get that back.

Speaker 4 (01:31:54):
But it was some type of technology I don't understand.
I still don't understand it. So I went around and
I didn't touch the craft after that. That was the
last time I didn't. I kept my hands off it.
But then as I went back around, it started to
have the discobbler lights started appearing inside the craft skin
again and they started moving. So I got about ten

(01:32:16):
fifteen feet away, and I got on the ground because
I thought I activated something I touched it or yeah,
or maybe it was gonna explode. I didn't know what.
I didn't know what it was gonna gonna do. And
so I got down the ground and there was no explosion.
It lifted off the ground maybe you know, four or

(01:32:40):
five feet, and then it moved back to the trees.
Remember the trees that are only five or six feet apart,
and the craft is nine feet because I just pasted
it off, moved back through the trees.

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
Did it just like maneuver through the trees?

Speaker 3 (01:32:55):
Yeah? Yeah, wow, I don't know how. Yeah, I don't
know how I did it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
Did the craft appear to have any occupants?

Speaker 3 (01:33:04):
No, it's too small for that. Uh then you know
it was. It was definitely too small for that.

Speaker 4 (01:33:13):
I looked for crew compartments and stuff like that, and
those are that was before the days of such things
as drones or anything like that. I mean, we didn't
have those things. But I I I assumed it was
unmanned until it started moving, which I you know, it
was under intelligent control obviously, because moved back, then lifted up,

(01:33:37):
you know, to the canopy of the trees, made a
slight right turning, and blake and Iowa was gone. And
uh at that point, uh, then I could hear you know, visit,
you know, areas sound around me and the airmin that
was motionless to the right. It's beside me, and he

(01:33:58):
is beside himself. He's like all excited, and he says
he thinks he reacquired it. He says, over there, this
forest is so dark. There's no way you can see
anything inside. It was black, I mean pretty much. And
so and we have a thing called the you know,

(01:34:19):
the two the team concept. You always stick with your
team personally, your team member. And he thinks he requires it,
and he says over there, and he takes off, leaving
me no choice.

Speaker 3 (01:34:31):
But they go after him.

Speaker 4 (01:34:33):
So I'm running after him and we won't go maybe
about fifty yards, and there's a double fence. One was
BARBOI by the way, of course, I was only twenty
six years old then I could. I hop that fence,
and I hopped the second fence, and we're in the
farmers field. I'm chasing the airman and I think I

(01:34:53):
fell down two or three times in that farmers field,
and it was sort of soggy, even though it was
cold out and freezing, so I was wet then.

Speaker 3 (01:35:02):
And we get down past you know.

Speaker 4 (01:35:04):
The farmers' houses and stuff on the other side of
the field, and finally he stops. So here we are
out the middle of nowhere and a clearing. I go,
what are you chasing? He goes, I'm chasing that light.

Speaker 3 (01:35:22):
I said, what a light? And he points to the
opposite direction. Uh to my left and I.

Speaker 4 (01:35:31):
Said where, and he said over there, And I said where,
He says, look down my arm. So I looked down
on his arm and wait in the distance on the
coastline there about three miles away, there's a dim light
on It was the lighthouse.

Speaker 3 (01:35:49):
That's not it, that's the lighthouse.

Speaker 4 (01:35:51):
And then while I'm sitting ready to get the chewest,
but because I just ran about half a mile, uh.

Speaker 3 (01:36:00):
I see it up.

Speaker 4 (01:36:01):
The crafts just sitting motionless over the canopy of the
forest over by cable Green, which is still running some
forest area, and it's just there. And you know, I'm
going to go ahead, and now I'm going to go
ahead and pursue it. And before I could even take
any effort to do that, it just started moving very slowly,

(01:36:24):
maybe a few hundred miles an hour, towards the coastline
and disappeared.

Speaker 3 (01:36:32):
Immediately.

Speaker 4 (01:36:32):
Once that happened, I hear Security control contacted me on
the radio, and so I said, yeah, I mean security
is a okay, I'm okay all the stuff, you know,
And they go ahead and proceeded back to the base
and we'll uh, you know, and come back to see
se who wanted to brief youel okay, So that's what

(01:36:55):
we did. Get back to the base. The law enforcement
guy goes with the law people. They transport him. I
go with the security guys and we're in a metro
and we're going the backway to that waters.

Speaker 3 (01:37:12):
And you know.

Speaker 4 (01:37:12):
So I'm finishing up my notebook in there, I'm converting
my times to military time and writing down information because
I got to do a fifteen sixty nine. I know
that that's an incident complaint report. Besides the blodder entry.
The it's a short entry that's in the blodder saying no,

(01:37:34):
you know, off base lights and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:37:37):
Uh. The fifteen sixty nine is in detail.

Speaker 4 (01:37:40):
It can be a page long type, it can be
two pages long.

Speaker 3 (01:37:43):
It's a lot of detail.

Speaker 4 (01:37:45):
So I wrote down you know, stuff for that at
the times and that the rest of the stuff I can,
you know, recall from memory. We get the Central Security
Control and I meet Sartaine Chandler. I said, you won't
believe what happened af there. He goes, I was at
these case. I seen it all.

Speaker 3 (01:38:04):
I said. He says's go turn your weapon in that.

Speaker 4 (01:38:07):
So I don't let's say he didn't know what to
say either, and uh, I said okay, and eternal weapon
and I went to send CSC Central Scurity Control, and uh,
I'm getting ready to do the fifteen sixty nine with
starting coffee and I starting coffee about fifteen sixty I says,
I got it done. I said, you got it done?

(01:38:29):
He goes yeah. I said, well, how do you know
what the times?

Speaker 3 (01:38:33):
And that?

Speaker 4 (01:38:34):
He says, we said we heard you. He said, you
kept transmitting we heard you everything on the radio.

Speaker 3 (01:38:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:38:40):
Oh, And so I read the fifteen sixty nine.

Speaker 3 (01:38:44):
It was accurate. I says, hey, thanks a lot, starting coffee.
Good to go.

Speaker 4 (01:38:50):
Then when I left there, I run into the law
enforced Experiment and h he says, here it come up
with me. We're gonna I gotta go report into the
shift commander's office station. Commander uh with Tim Brand had
to leave early. He had a flight back to the States.
He was going on leave. So I met with Captain Vernald,

(01:39:11):
he's the day flight commander went in, gave him a
sanitized report, said, you know, seeing objects in the woods
and multiple colored lights it was metal and kept the
preaching eric mainly because there is no way that that

(01:39:33):
was gonna do my career any good at all. So yeah,
I did be a career ender. So I coined the
phrase craft of unknown origin because I sure he wasn't
gonna call the UFO ah, and that's.

Speaker 3 (01:39:51):
What I call it.

Speaker 4 (01:39:52):
Anyway. The captain says, you know, generally, he says, you know,
there's no way to report this. He says pros blue
book ended in sixty nine, and he says, we have
no way to work this. He says, tell you what,
he says, I just want you guys to.

Speaker 3 (01:40:10):
Go home.

Speaker 4 (01:40:11):
Tell it easy and let us take care of it.
Sounds good to me, sued him. Left and at that
time I was going to give the Aaron a ride home.
He lived in IP switched to we lived about twenty
miles away, and I said, a couple of things to do,

(01:40:33):
so I had to go. I had dropped the film
off at the base photo lab. I did that. I
did a work or around it. Then the airman says, hey,
we got to go back out there. I said, no,
we're not going back out there, because yeah, so we
got to see it in the daylight. And I says, okay,

(01:40:55):
and I find he was persistent. I said, okay, okay,
we'll do that. We went out there and we got
to the you know, the general area, and he started
hollering and he told me to come over. He says,
come over here. And it was the area. It was
the area where the craft planted. And when we got there,

(01:41:16):
there was the three inventions in the ground and he says, look,
he says, he's left inventions. I says, yeah. I said,
we need to get the hell out of here, right.
So on the way back and uh, we we left there.
I went home. I was just too traumatized and too

(01:41:38):
piped up. I couldn't go to sleep. So I went
to a friend of mine's house that was he's an
interior decorator anyway, and I says about, you know, what
was the best way to take impressions on the ground,
and so I can mix you up some plaster Paris
and you know, it's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:42:00):
So that's what we did.

Speaker 4 (01:42:01):
So I got my backpack and stuff and I go
back out there, go to the land side, pour the
the past the cast. At that time, I smoke cigarettes,
so I think it was three or four cigarettes I had.
There's funny, even though I'm most I pulled them up
and I put in my backpack because I really wanted

(01:42:22):
to have something tangible from the incident, and that's why
I did that. On the way back in, who do
I run into but the deputy Squadron Commander Major Drury.
I run into the day flight chief. I started guglias,
I says. And I run into the Captain Ronald, who

(01:42:43):
told me to go home. And I thought it was
going to be in trouble there. And Major Dury comes
up and said, what are you doing here? So I
just wanted to check it out again, you know, he says. Listen,
he says, so we're handles. He says, you go back
and you spend take your three days off and enjoy it.
He says, don't worry about this, And so that's why

(01:43:04):
we left it.

Speaker 1 (01:43:06):
You. You then started, I guess, seeing visions of these
ones and zeros at some.

Speaker 4 (01:43:13):
Point, right, so I tried to go out and get
some sleep. Maybe you know, I got an hour or something.
I kept seeing these ones at airls. So anyway, finally,
I mean this is all during the day shift, the
day during the day, the day in the morning, after
the after and after.

Speaker 3 (01:43:32):
I can't go sleep.

Speaker 4 (01:43:34):
I finally get the BETTERUND eleven o'clock at night. So
then I have that problem. I can't I can't sleep.
I'm saying these ones as ails, and I'm really concerned
because I think the trauma, I know it's trauma. Uh,
and I think I'm losing my mind at that point
in time. And I'm concerned because I can't go to

(01:43:54):
the base clinic.

Speaker 3 (01:43:56):
I can't go up there and.

Speaker 4 (01:43:57):
Say once in Zero's and I had a experience for
the craft, I knowing the origin earlier that day.

Speaker 3 (01:44:05):
I mean it sounds crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:44:07):
I mean, uh, they were gonna, you know, probably leave
me a duty and you know, in my Air Force
career and everything else, so I that was an option.

Speaker 3 (01:44:16):
I couldn't go in a base with it.

Speaker 4 (01:44:18):
So anyway, I I was going to struggle to tonight,
and so I get up. I can't sleep anyway, So
what do I do? I said, I'll make a poduct coffee.
Can't sleep anyway, And then I, you know, I started,
I looked at the casts.

Speaker 3 (01:44:36):
I went over.

Speaker 4 (01:44:38):
And I got my notebook off off the table and
I started to look through it, looking at my notes.
I mean, all was okay, but the hard thing was
these ones in Zero's and I, I said, you know,
I'm flipping through the notebook. I said, you know, I
think I write them down. And so I find a

(01:45:01):
pen and I fliped to the like you know, the
middle of the end, the of the notebook as on
paper I had, and in my mind's eye I could
closer than I could see. You know this, You know
the cereals zero one one one, zero one one zerreal
zeros theer one. I could see them. So I started

(01:45:23):
writing them down. And the odd thing was when I
started to do that, the more I wrote, the better
I felt. And matter of fact, the pen I had.
You don't see how it is you grab a pen off,
you know, a drawer, It doesn't always work very well.
This didn't work, and I started panicking. So I'm tearing

(01:45:45):
through the drawer trying to find a pen that works.
I find it a pen other pen networks, and I
continue to go ahead where I left off and write
this one is the Zero's back down? I go and
tell I don't know, And notebook's not that big, but
I we're down, like you know, like sixteen pages of them.
And I get toward the end and also I don't

(01:46:08):
see the one in zero's no more, and I can't
write anymore. And I stopped, and I feel pretty damn good.
And uh, I said, whoa, Well, I'm not at dodgeta
bullet here. I don't think I'll have to go to
the base. I think I'm gonna be all right. Well,
it's good the proofs of them putting. If I can
go to sleep, I'll probably be okay. And mind you,

(01:46:30):
I have to have pot of coffee too. And I
go to bed, and I go to bed, and I slept,
you know, like tell you know, about ten hours. And
but so that's the reason why I never talked about
the ones in cereals anymore, because there was a mental breakdown.

(01:46:51):
I thought, you know, it's pretty private. I mean, we're
gonna tell anybody. And I felt okay next day, so
why should I? And and but eventually it came up again, right,
it came up because someone else discovered it. I tell
you what. We were doing a film shoot in twenty

(01:47:16):
ten out at Phoenix and it was with I'll tell
you who it was with.

Speaker 3 (01:47:22):
It was for Prometheus Pictures.

Speaker 4 (01:47:24):
The guys will do Ancient Aliens. Yeah, and uh yeah,
and there was nimonton House. She's doing interview too. And
then John Burrow's the law enforcement guy was Anyway, I
was in that time when they filmed they actually had film.
They didn't do you know, they didn't have digital stuff.

(01:47:45):
So I'm sitting there getting filmed and they're doing a film.
They're republished in the film on the camera and so
I low break. They're sitting there and so Burrolls asked
me about a time and I said, oh, I don't know.
So I started flipping too notebook and I flipped back
too far where the ones and zeros were at. I went, oh, jesu,

(01:48:07):
that's too far, and they go, what's that and all
that stuff, and they go, I forget what?

Speaker 3 (01:48:11):
What the hell?

Speaker 4 (01:48:12):
Okay, here it is thirty years later, but I might
as well go ahead and tell them. You know, I
had had a little bit of a mental breakdown there
and night, and I was already telling him about that.

Speaker 3 (01:48:27):
And they said, well, how many pages?

Speaker 4 (01:48:29):
I got quite a few, and anyway, letting them all
the houses, Well, the ones is zero, that's binary code,
and I go, what and it now? When she said that,
I knew then. I knew the ones and zero's for
binary code. And the reason was fascinating because I did
an interview. No, I did the hypnosis in ninety four

(01:48:54):
because I had a sleep disorder. So I went to
my doctor and she defer me to a psychiatrist. And anyway,
uh so during the that hypnosis session, I talked about
seeing binary code and I never knew what the hell
I'm at.

Speaker 3 (01:49:11):
And uh.

Speaker 4 (01:49:13):
Until I put it together when living to mo the houses,
well that's binary code. Oh No, I wrote code and
they were like they were like kids in a candy shop.
So we got to you gotta get this ciphered and
you can see with me, I think. I mean it's Gibbs,
you know, come on, you know there's a metal breakdown.
And anyway, we got on with the film shoot. I

(01:49:37):
mean I got called on on me how many times
today from Wenda She must called me twice a day.
Uh you got you know about she wants to see
this or get it analyzed, let me think about, let
me think about it. So anyway, I get called from
Kim Sharon, she's the executive producer I think, or for
Prometheus Ain't Aliens, And she says, we want to do

(01:50:01):
that too, And I said, okay, tell you what I do. Kim,
I says I'll scan, you know, like four or five
pages and sement to you. And I said, don't. I said,
you're waste your money on it. I'm pretty sure, and
she's going to have an expert look at I'm still
getting calls from Linda. I still hold her off. I say,

(01:50:21):
I'm thinking about it, but I don't tell her that
Prometheus is doing a you know, just looking at it.
About three days later, I get a call from Kim.
She has been to go up online and that's before
Skype and all that stuff, but you know, she I
could see the emails and we went through one by one.

(01:50:44):
I said, why are we doing this? She says, Now
she's I'm on the phone with her. She says, because
the binary says something.

Speaker 3 (01:50:51):
I said.

Speaker 4 (01:50:51):
Says no way, I says, to get out of here.
There's no way you can say anything. It can be coherent.

Speaker 3 (01:50:56):
He says, yeah. She says, it's.

Speaker 4 (01:50:58):
Got words, and it's got Greek coordinates and aus what.
And we went through and I was like blown away
by it. And so that.

Speaker 1 (01:51:09):
Day what what what was in the message.

Speaker 3 (01:51:15):
In there?

Speaker 4 (01:51:15):
It's it was saying that it's deciphered. Listen, you're gonna
make me come off and say it off the top
of my head. I'm at least something.

Speaker 1 (01:51:30):
You did the best of your you know what you
can remember about it.

Speaker 4 (01:51:34):
For the expiration of humanity was in there. It had
someone with the fourth coordinate when hell that means uh,
then they had great coordinances were global coordinances. There were
seven of them. Ah, one was the first one and

(01:51:57):
the last one was the same though.

Speaker 3 (01:52:00):
Okay, and so uh so I sent it off to
I told her.

Speaker 4 (01:52:07):
I sent her off a few pages to Linda because
she was bothering me every day, and I said, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:52:13):
Go ahead and have somebody to look at.

Speaker 4 (01:52:15):
So she had so many professors look at it in
Australia and one in North Carolina or South Carolina.

Speaker 3 (01:52:24):
And uh.

Speaker 4 (01:52:27):
A couple of days later, I get a call from her,
and she's excited, of course, and she said, uh, it
says something. I said, okay, tell me what it says.
And she goes through that was exactly what prometheus interpretation was.
I said, oh, and she says, well, you're not very excited.
I said, well, I'm perplexed about it. But I said,

(01:52:50):
Prometheus already decoded, you know, translated, and she was she
wasn't really happy about that. I'm gonna tell you that
she was pretty she.

Speaker 3 (01:52:58):
Was not happy. Why I have no idea? I don't
want I guess I don't know why I have no idea?
And so.

Speaker 1 (01:53:11):
Oh did they did anyone do any further research into
the possible meaning of these coordinates or message?

Speaker 3 (01:53:21):
Yes, we're up to that now. I'll tell you what.

Speaker 4 (01:53:24):
Back in what twenty ten we did that first book
with Nick Pope, and that was a mess, by the way,
about half of us, right, not next fault. It's just
we were under deadlines to get it out in the publisher.

Speaker 3 (01:53:36):
Anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:53:37):
It's just a lot of it's just not right. But
it has the code in, it has the pages in.
And at that time I got people. I formed a
Runners from Forced research team with different people from around
the world research in a couple of people that had

(01:54:00):
pretty good points. One it was like a professor at
Cambridge in England who wants to remain anonymous because he
gets grants and stuff like that and he doesn't want
to have that affective. Yeah, but you know that's the way.
That's the one. Yeah, that's funny how that works. Really,
they want to do the research, but they don't want

(01:54:22):
to go public with it, so you know, I understand that.

Speaker 3 (01:54:25):
But anyway, I was part of the team, and I
also had.

Speaker 4 (01:54:28):
On a team a person that was referred to me
in twenty ten called Gary Osborne. And Gary well, he
was the author and a researcher and stuff and with
Egypt and things like that, and anyway, the team evolved

(01:54:48):
and they had discoveries, and anyway, it got to the
point that the guy that was coming up with the
analyzing the global coordinates in their relationship ships found in
there a.

Speaker 3 (01:55:02):
Code within a code.

Speaker 4 (01:55:04):
So it's not just the coordinates, it's what they point
to and what they break down mathematically too. And that's
about as best as I can do with it right now.
And that was Gary Osborne that made those discoveries. And
so we started in Earnest doing research in twenty fifteen.

(01:55:28):
At that time, just let you know, I had like
eighty five pages that didn't go into the first book
I did. We missed the timeline on It's not Nick's
fault or nothing like that, and Gary had fifty pages
that didn't go in. And so next a is you
know what you should do? You should write your own book.

(01:55:49):
We said, okay, So I said, we did, and we
took Gary's research in and the Rentalship enigmaent book is
seven hundred and two pages. Of that three hundred pages
are chapter end notes which his research and he wrote
the most spectacular epilogue in there. This is about fifty pages.

(01:56:13):
That is the transition into the book about the meaning
of the code. And we're going to do a book too.
Matter of fact, it's being written right now by Gary
and it'll be.

Speaker 3 (01:56:23):
Out of here. We were looking at this year and.

Speaker 4 (01:56:28):
Anyway, his discoveries are amazing and one of the most
fascinating things that he found is recently is May of
twenty nineteen that in this code is the defining structure constant.
This is a something that world, you know, scientists all
agree upon in the universe, they have these. For example,

(01:56:52):
it's we operate you know at six ditches over and
does some points. Okay, that's where we operate our weather.
It's GPS, whether it's with any type of coding or anything,
that's where us as humans operate. And the discovery in
May of twenty nineteen, Gary discovered that this fine structure

(01:57:13):
constant was in there and it didn't go over six
even Carl Stegen said, if you found a message that
went over seven, they would be pretty smart people, very
smart people. But the rens from code, the code within
the code went over thirteen or fourteen ditches. So whoever

(01:57:38):
that was was not just smart, but very smart, smart
enough for interdimensional to travel things like that. I mean,
this is probably like a Type two civilization that came
from I mean, it's pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:57:56):
Far advanced. Anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:57:58):
That's part of the research that is described in the
epilogue of the Renaissance Enigma Book.

Speaker 3 (01:58:06):
And have you have have you read a copy of
that yet?

Speaker 4 (01:58:09):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:58:09):
And you know we're going to have to have you
back on when that that other one comes out. That
sounds fascinating or maybe.

Speaker 4 (01:58:16):
With Gary because you know what I'm like on a
crayon level with it, and Gary.

Speaker 1 (01:58:23):
Definitely I love. That'd be awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:58:25):
Yeah, because I'm just not his research, you know, and
it's just fascinating. I'll tell you what. Every time he
called me, we did. We when we wrote the renosrment
Ingma book. I mean, it was like forty hours a week,
thirty hours a week on skype. You know, it was
just crazy and it took almost five years. Oh and
The other thing that going back to the Rentolstrument England book,

(01:58:49):
eighty five percent of that that's in that book right
now has never been released to public before, so it
was unknown the public and most witnesses didn't know I
was in there. I just kept it the best, and
you know, I'm aging, and I figured, you know what,
it's about time, with all this disinformation coming out about
Renderson and that over the last thirty for you know,

(01:59:11):
thirty nine years, I want to make sure it's straight
and what happened, and so I wanted a factual account,
and so we wrote the book.

Speaker 1 (01:59:21):
So, yes, I was going to ask, ever since the incident,
you have you ever had any other experiences, seen any
other UFOs, anything parent, normal or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (01:59:33):
No, zero, I can tell you.

Speaker 4 (01:59:37):
I tell you what I tell you, Chris, I found
the one time's enough.

Speaker 3 (01:59:42):
It was sufficient.

Speaker 4 (01:59:45):
No, No, I guess face it. You know, ninety nine
point ninety percent of everything you see outside in the
sky a lightnsed sky, it can be explained. It's probably
a man made or natural occurring or whatever. People don't
know what the looking at usually, but the most is explainable.

Speaker 1 (02:00:05):
Now, what are your thoughts on what's happening today with
the kind of like a UFO craze lately with the
tts A all the the Navy pilots being allowed to
report the sightings things like that, what are your thoughts
on what's going on there?

Speaker 4 (02:00:25):
Well, TTSA, that's just opportunists. Okay, They're out to make
a bag, right, that's all. They're doing it for the
Navy pilots. The witnesses like that, they didn't have any
to know. I'll tell you what they what they seems
classified aircraft or drowns.

Speaker 3 (02:00:42):
That's what they see.

Speaker 4 (02:00:44):
And if you stop and think about that, the whole
incident that those people are talking about, that was nable
exercise an enable exercise area, and one of our theories
is that that was you know, these craft was from
skunk Works was being tested there, that's all. And so

(02:01:07):
they just they're just misidentify with because they don't know
what they see. And it's not to say that the
people that witnesses or are not telling truth or anything
like that, because they I'm sure they are. Uh, it's
just that they just don't know what they're They don't
know what it is, you know. And some of the theories

(02:01:27):
we have on it that are going to come to light.
I think pretty soon we have the backing of theoretical
scientists and like Jack Safari and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (02:01:38):
Uh Ah.

Speaker 4 (02:01:42):
If they're not ours, the scary things, it means that
they're probably a bad actor nation, you know, and that
would be worse ship like China or something like that.
But hopefully there are ours that way, you know, a
classified system.

Speaker 1 (02:01:58):
Are reverse engineer ring possible off world technology.

Speaker 3 (02:02:04):
No, I tell you what.

Speaker 4 (02:02:05):
The one thing I never said with rentals Trump, I
never used the term an alien or nothing like. I
don't believe in that it's it's not true. I mean,
I don't see no evidence for zero. My thoughts and
impressions from the rentals from incident is that these are
interdimensional travel is being done and we can use a

(02:02:28):
Hollywood term if you like, called time travel, right, that's Hollywood,
but that's interdimensional travel and these people they're responsible for
that craft. We believe it's our working theory that they're
from our future. And the reason we say that is

(02:02:48):
during a hypno secession. It's one of the things that
is in the hypno succession.

Speaker 3 (02:02:56):
It's all on tape. By the way, I have four
hours of it.

Speaker 4 (02:03:00):
It says that even in the future, they're still waiting
for first contact. So there there is for me zero
evidence of any type of extraterrestrial.

Speaker 3 (02:03:15):
Encounters.

Speaker 1 (02:03:17):
Pretty interesting.

Speaker 4 (02:03:18):
That's the secret, That's what it says the book. The
secret in the the biggest secret in the book is
you know, the uh, the false flag is UFOs and
aliens and all this other stuff. That's the false flag.
Uh what what?

Speaker 3 (02:03:32):
What?

Speaker 4 (02:03:32):
What they're covered up? It's us, It's future us, it's
us for the future. And that is can you imagine
to gain that technology?

Speaker 3 (02:03:44):
Uh? What you could do? You you control the world?
Couldn't you power? Absolute power?

Speaker 1 (02:03:52):
You know, that's a fascinating theory. I was talking to
someone the other day, doctor Bruce gold Berg. I believe
thinks the same thing, that these are time travelers coming
back to visit us. That is a fascinating theory too.

Speaker 3 (02:04:10):
It is.

Speaker 4 (02:04:12):
But the evidence is pointing excuse me, the evidence is
pointing strictly to that, and I don't feeling masters are
our masters. The professor from Montana he believes it too,
based on his eviness he's encountered throughout history and also

(02:04:33):
the evidence that we found that with the code. I mean,
I mean this, you stop and think that the only
way that this, this COVID coke can happen. As matter
of fact, it goes down to the inch on global scale,
within an inch on a global scale, I mean, this

(02:04:56):
is how precise it is. And so, uh, it's our
working theory that we believe that they've been coming for years,
you know. And maybe you go back to the pyramids,
who built them? Where do they get their knowledge? I
mean all it makes sense. But Jackson Farai also the

(02:05:16):
professor from San Francisco up there at Stanford, he believes
that this is the probably the most likely answer to it.
Now as far as wreckage, it's doubtful. When you if
you can do interdimensional travel time travel, even if you

(02:05:37):
had a crash, you can go what change it day before?
Who knows, you know, if there is any This is
another theory they have. And if you're finding any kind
of wreckage, it's because they want you to find it, okay,
And it's not to help us. It's to help them
whenever in the future.

Speaker 3 (02:05:59):
It's not for us.

Speaker 4 (02:06:00):
So and this is I think what they're they're maybe
trying to If there ever is a thing called disculture,
which I doubt it, you know, have some type of
sumptance to this somewhere in the future, because it seems
like there's there's more of these type of unexplainable events

(02:06:22):
like this happening. The other thing, the other theory I heard,
don't you know? Then you hear you got people that
you know, got these grays and stuff like that, they
see them. They're they're probably manufacturer a hybrid, you know something,
because the interdimensional travel is just.

Speaker 1 (02:06:44):
About to ask you about the grades if there were
some kind of biologue.

Speaker 4 (02:06:48):
Yeah, yeah, it's just it's just too traumatic to be
able to take corporeal life through. So you have to
have a special uh entity to do that, you know,
So they manufactured one, no doubt. That is our theory
on it, and uh that's what could possibly be explained

(02:07:08):
by something, you know, that's what they're saying. The other
thing is in the book when with the the Rock
for Colliquum, chapter I talk about, you know, meeting with
doctor Green. You know, he says former C I A
is anybody ever former C I don't know?

Speaker 3 (02:07:26):
That was just a few years ago.

Speaker 4 (02:07:28):
There they have a group of eight or nine scientists
working on it. This is his words, is in the book,
and he believes that the defense system on these uh
uh on these.

Speaker 3 (02:07:41):
Craft is phenomenon.

Speaker 4 (02:07:44):
Is can play with whatever you have preconceived notions with mentally,
So if you have preconceived notions of aliens and things
like that, you're probably gonna see them uh closer you
get to the craft. This is the and why he
wanted to meet with me. He figures that within if

(02:08:05):
you get within like maybe twenty feet of the craft,
you see.

Speaker 3 (02:08:07):
It for what it is.

Speaker 4 (02:08:09):
It's whether it's by the design of its own you know,
maybe they for them to work on it or whatever
it is. But if you're if you get you get
actual contact with the craft, like within five ten feet
of it, you're going to see it for what it is.
And that's his theory, not mine. That's what his working

(02:08:29):
group is doing, and that's one of the reasons he
contact us. There was like fifty people he had contacted
and the ones, the two that you wanted to talk
to was the Airburham with me and myself because we
had you know, close proximility simity to the craft, myself
actual contact, and so that was one of the reasons

(02:08:54):
why he wanted to set up a meeting with me,
which he did and I described it in a book.

Speaker 1 (02:08:59):
So, now, as a final question before we close out tonight,
do you think that the highest levels of the military
is already aware that these possibly could be time travelers?

Speaker 3 (02:09:13):
I believe there.

Speaker 4 (02:09:15):
Do you know about unacknowledged special access programs? Yes, I mean, okay,
we had, we had tons of We got special access programs,
nicular weapons, classified programs, blah blah bla blah blah blah.
That's all stuff that you can do with a Foyer
on and get an answer. Okay, But then if they
take that special access program and they go ahead and

(02:09:38):
farm en out to civilians, is a civilian contractor, it
becomes it becomes unacknowledged special access program And do you
know you can't get a Foyer requests on that. It
doesn't exist. It's black. So to say that a certain

(02:09:58):
people in the military, there is a certain section of
our government, they definitely know what it is, and that
is why we have all these Uh. I think the
them trying to mislead the public with the a lot
of the UFO information or uthologists. I think that's part

(02:10:19):
of the problem, at least for the last eighty years.

Speaker 1 (02:10:24):
Right, Yeah, I agree. I think they do feed a
lot of misinformation into the UFO community and and and
researchers along along those lines.

Speaker 4 (02:10:34):
Well, they're they're loving it. They're looking at Blue Book,
the television show. You think that there's anything classified that's
all long classified stuff that for disinformation anyway, you know,
and the classified stuff, if there is to anything, it's
still classified, you're not gonna know about it. I mean,
it's it's really they feed into the frenzy and uh,

(02:10:57):
that's what you're seeing.

Speaker 3 (02:10:59):
Will the will the information come out?

Speaker 4 (02:11:01):
I think it'll have to because I think that it's
not under their full control.

Speaker 3 (02:11:06):
You know, they'd like it to be, but it's not.

Speaker 1 (02:11:09):
So yeah, i'd hope so. And Jim, thank you so
much for coming on tonight. Fascinating story. We're gonna definitely
have to have you back on when the next book
comes out. And if anyone as to get the book,
it's on Amazon.

Speaker 4 (02:11:25):
Right Amazon dot com. You can get it by Kindle,
or you can get the paperback which is huge on
Amazon dot com and it's available in just by any
country in the world.

Speaker 1 (02:11:37):
Very good. Jim, thank you so much, and we'll have
you back on soon. You have an excellent night.

Speaker 3 (02:11:42):
Take care, Chris.

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FKN Classics Double Feature! | Jack Roth - Hybrids & Mantids | Jim Penniston - Rendlesham UFO

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}FKN Classics Double Feature! | Jack Roth - Hybrids & Mantids | Jim Penniston - Rendlesham UFO