FKN Classics Double Feature! | Robert Guffey - Chameleo | Rob Gauthier - ET Sexuality - Forbidden Knowledge News

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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And I'm going to welcome Robert Guffey. He is an
author of several books, articles and publications, as well as

(01:25):
a lecturer in the Department of English at California State University. Robert, Welcome,
how you doing.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
I'm fine, Thank you for having me on.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Thank you so much for coming on. I have very
much been looking forward to this. This is going to
be a great episode. We're going to be discussing your
book Camelo, the Strange but True Story of Invisible Spies, heroin, addiction,
and Homeland Security. And I've mentioned this book several times
to my audience since I read it a few months ago.

(01:56):
And this is one of the most incredible and insane
stories I've ever heard, and I highly recommend everyone listening
go and pick up your copy right now. The links
are right in the description. And I wanted to get
to as much as we can, because, like I said,
this is an awesome story. Before we get into it, though,
tell us a little bit more about yourself and what

(02:19):
was it that led you to write this particular book.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Okay, sure, if I may, I'd like to take the
liberty of dedicating this episode oh to the late Ken Thomas,
who just passed away. Ken Thomas wrote the book The Octopus,
Secret Government and the Death of Danny Cassillera with Jim Keith,
who also passed away meant many years ago. But Ken

(02:45):
Thomas passed away in September twenty second, and he published
one of my early articles in Steam Shovel Press, which
was his magazine. It was one of the very best
DIY scenes of the nineteen nineties. So, yes, amos, he
just passed away. So I wanted to take note of that.
If if you haven't read The Octopus, which is all

(03:08):
about in the insulaw Aufair and the mysterious death of
Danny Cassillio, I highly recommend it. Uh. So how I
came to write Camellio, Yeah, that well, that's a uh
that's a complicated story, as you know, but I'll try

(03:29):
to uh encapsulate it, uh as best as I can.
It all started in in July of two thousand and
three and my friend Damien who in the book in Camellio,
I call him Dion Dion Fuller, but that's that's not

(03:52):
his real name, uh, and I it's it's too hard
for me to remember the made up name, so I'm
just gonna call him Damien. I asked her, do you
mind if I just call you Damien in these interviews? And
he's like, that's fine. So Damian, who I've known since

(04:12):
I was sixteen, In fact, I met him on my
sixteenth birthday in July two thousand and three. He was
living in the Pacific Beach area of San Diego. I
was living in Torrance, California, and at the time Damien,

(04:33):
he had just broken up with a girlfriend, and it
was his house had become kind of a drug house, right,
people are coming in and out all the time. And
there's this kid. He meets this kid who had gone
a wall from Camp Pendleton. But Damien didn't know he
had gone a wall from Camp Pendleton. He was just

(04:54):
this kid that he met. And the kid asked him, Hey,
can I crash here for a few days, and Damien
said sure, which was not an than usual thing for
Damien to do. So this kid, who said his name
was Lee, is crashing on Damien's couch. Now when he
win a wallall from Camp Pendleton, he took with him

(05:15):
a nine millimeter Iraqi gun, over two dozen pairs of
high tech night vision goggles, add laptop, computer, and an
entire truck.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
And this was in the earlier mid nineties. What was
the approximate timeframe.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
So it's happening two thousand and three, so we're talking
just you know, a couple of years after nine to eleven,
and I sometimes when I do these interviews, people will ask, well,
how the hell did he steal a whole truck from
Camp Pendleton. But if you look into it, look up

(05:54):
a documentary called Cold the Sack, which came out oddly
for around like two thousand and four, and in fact
factors into the book I mentioned. The documentary Cul de
Sac in Camelio, Cul de Sac is all about an
incident that occurred in the same exact area in the
Pacific Beach area of San Diego, only a couple of

(06:17):
years before. All this happens to Damien, and this guy
stole a whole tank from an armory and just took
it on a joy ride right down the middle of
the suburban streets of Pacific Beach, going over like fire
hydrants and RVs, and went all the way out onto
the freeway and eventually got stuck in the middle of

(06:38):
the freeway. And he wanted to Ostensibly he wanted to
take the tank and go to city Hall make a
statement about something which I find I think that whatever
was happening to that guy is what I'm about to
describe started happening to to Damien. But that if you
can actually go to Google or go to YouTube just punching,

(07:01):
you know, tank San Diego, you'll you'll you'll see the
footage of this. And when the tank gets stuck on
the freeway, you see all the cops are just they're
just pushing each other out of the way to get
the opportunity to like climb onto that thing and shoot
the guy in the head, even though he was unarmed
what except at the tank. But by that point the

(07:21):
tank he gotten stuck and he wasn't going anywhere with it,
and he was just wearing a pair of shorts and
no shirt, and they shot him in the head. And
so this guy stole a whole tank. So I don't
think it's that weird that this dude stole a truck
from Camp Pendleton. And apparently Camp Pendleton. By the way,

(07:42):
I on my blog Cryptoscatology, I've got a whole bunch
of different articles about high strange and it's going on
at Camp Pendleton.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
In fact, I was thinking of doing a whole separate
article just about the weirdness that occurs at Camp Pendleton,
and just recently there was a whole article about this
is from the July sixth, twenty twenty three nbcsan Diego
dot com reports the headline is family says missing girl
located in Camp Pendleton barracks. Marine questioned by ncis so

(08:15):
this this guy was keeping this missing girl in his barracks.
So they would have had to have taken this underage
girl like right past the security and they were like,
go ahead, it's okay. So I guess you know, all
sorts of illsted activity is going on on Camp Pendleton,
coming off the base and going into the base. So

(08:35):
in this case, what was going off the base was
the truck, the d D laptop, computer, the over two
dozen pairs high tech night vision goggles, and the nine
millimeters Iraqi gun. And so some of the stuff was
in Damien's house, some of it wasn't. And one night,
Damien's having this party and there's all these people there

(08:55):
and keep the kid Lee pulls out the laptop and
opens it and immediately the DoD symbol appears on the screen,
and Damien sees this and immediately says, okay, you know,
get the shit out of here and just leave. And
the kid's like no, no, no, no, don't worry about it.

(09:16):
They can't track this stuff, and it was like on cue.
Just a few minutes later, there's a knock at the door.
Damien opens it. There's a woman there who identifies herself
as Special Agent Lita Johnson of the NCIS. That's not
her real name, and there's like two goons with her,

(09:38):
and she says, I need to search your apartment. And Damien,
whose father was a narcotics cop so he kind of
knew a little bit about his rights, he said to her, well,
do you have a warrant? And she said, no, I
do not have a warrant, but I can get it
very quickly. He said, well, come back with a warrant,
and he closes the door in her face, immediately spins

(09:59):
around and tells everyone, okay, grab your shit, meaning your drugs,
and leave. Go out the back. Everyone throws their drugs
down and now that you know, they sense heat is near,
so they just like throw their drugs down on Damien's
carpet and like run out at the back. Lee is
still there. The NCIS come back like very quickly right

(10:20):
after that, along with the San Diego Police Department. But Damien,
the way he described it, was like the San Diego
Police department in CIS. It was almost as if they
weren't working together. They were really like bumping heads. He
described it as like Keystone Cops kind of stuff, and
they were all They didn't care at all about all

(10:40):
the drugs littering the living room floor. They were hyper
focused on getting back these night vision goggles. They weren't
too concerned about all the other stuff. It was they
really wanted to know about these night vision goggles. So
they arrest Damien and they arrest this kid Lee, who

(11:02):
they later told Damien that his name wasn't Lee, his
name was Doyle, so I you know, he has multiple names.
So they throw Damien and this kid Lee in jail
for about six or seven days, and for about a
whole week, they're giving Damien d abu grave treatment. They're
like really working on him, and they want him to

(11:23):
tell them everything he knows about this kid, and they
they've come to the conclusion that this kid and Damien
are somehow in league with each other, selling stolen equipment
to like al Qaeda or some other terrorist organization. And
Damien's trying to tell them, look, I just met this
guy like a few days ago. I didn't even know

(11:43):
what the hell his name was until just now, Yeah,
I don't know anything about this, and they didn't accept that.
You know, how, how is it possible this guy was
sleeping on your couch but you were not involved with
all this other stuff. They couldn't like wrap their head
around the idea that a guy would just like let
someone he just met, you know, like live in his house.

(12:05):
For some reason, they were just they couldn't accept that
that that was the reality of it. And also I
should point out that Damien is not the most cooperative
person anyway, particularly when it comes to dealing with law enforcement.
I think this probably has something to do with the
fact that his dad was an narcotics cop, and he
didn't really get along with his dad. So even if

(12:26):
he had known something about Lee and what he was doing,
he probably wouldn't have said anything anyway. But the fact
is he really didn't know anything. So this is like
a total Franz Kopka scenario. And so they keep they
keep grilling and grillingum. And then it was around this
time that you know, we would talk frequently, and I

(12:48):
tried to call him on the phone, and the phone
just rang and rang, And after a few days like
he still wasn't getting back in touch with me, which
I thought was odd. Then, you know, a week passes
and finally he calls me on the phone and he
tells me everything that has just happened, and he said
that they they let him go. After about a week
of Grilliam, they finally said that he could go. And

(13:13):
one of us thought, well, wow, that's the weirdest thing
I've ever heard. You know, it can't get weirder than that. Obviously,
they realized that he didn't know anything, they let him
go and that's the end of it. Yeah, then right,
And then so then like a few days later, he
calls me and he says he's being followed. At first,

(13:37):
I thought he meant like followed surreptitiously by a couple
of people, you know, who maybe were following him to
see if maybe he did have something to do with it,
you know, But then it became clear that what he
was saying was no, they're not like following me surreptitiously.

(13:57):
They're like whole groups of people, Like I'm talking like
a dozen. When he described his jar head looking guys,
like you know, real jarhead military looking dudes following him
all around, not in a surreptitious way, but being very
blatant about it, almost as if they wanted him to
see that they were following him.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
And he said, I would, you know, I would go
into the seven to eleven over on Garnett Avenue, and
a dozen of these jar heads would just follow me right,
like right on my ass, like winding through the aisle.
They'd be right there. I'd go to the Mexican restaurant.
They'd all sit in the boost around me and like
just be staring at him as he's eating, like a
chaloupa or whatever. And at first, when he's describing this,

(14:42):
I thought, Okay, I've never heard of anything like this before.
I mean, I've heard of people being followed, but I've
never heard of people being followed like this. Uh. And
at first, I admit that I thought that maybe Damien
was having some sort of like meth induced paranoia. Not
that I mean Damien's drug a choice had always been heroin, uh,

(15:03):
which isn't a hallucinogen. But I thought, well maybe, And
I'd never seen him really paranoid before. Uh. And but
I thought, well, maybe this is some sort of strange
new reaction to whatever he's whatever he's taking, I don't know,

(15:23):
uh uh. And so I said, well, I go, why
don't you try to like document this stuff? You know,
I mean, if they're following you, like maybe take take
photos of them following you or something like that. So
he says, there's cars. Now, there's cars following him all
around Pacific Beach. I go, we'll take take photos to
the license plates. Uh. He he begins to tell me

(15:47):
that they're they're parking outside his apartment like at all
hours of the day and night, and they'll just like
play music, you know, cranked up to eleven, like right
outside his front door, or they'll like be shining halogen
lights like all night, like right through the window of
his bedroom. And I go, well, okay, why don't you
take photos of these of these cars that are following

(16:07):
you around? So he actually does that, and I just
it just so happened that I had a friend who
worked at the DMB up in Washington State. So I
sent and the list of these license plate numbers or
is in the book. I sent the list of these
numbers to this guy I know at the DMB, and

(16:28):
he runs them through the system and they all come
back as officially non existent, which I thought was odd
because of course, if Damien was having just some sort
of paranoid reaction to something, then they would come up
as license plates, you know, owned by his neighbors, right,
who were just driving around town, and he was misinterpreting
it as them following him, you know, but we would

(16:49):
come up. And even if he was just making up
license plate numbers just at random, you think you'd hit
on an actual car. And anyway, I knew they existed
because I, you know, I'd seen the photograph. Uh So
the fact that they came back is officially nonexistent, just
seemed to suggest to me that these were government vehicles.
I couldn't think of any other reason why they they

(17:11):
wouldn't be coming up. Uh So that was at that
point I thought, Okay, well, so maybe there's some you know,
reality to all of this. I I should point out that.
So so Lida Johnson, the NCIS agent, she would just
show up from time to time. Uh and there's all

(17:32):
so all these people are like parked outside Damien's house
doing all this stuff. Then they would like pull back
and then suddenly another car would pull in and Lida
Johnson would get out with her like two goons, and
she'd go to the door and knock out the door
and say, oh, hi, uh, Damian, I was just wondering,
have you have you changed your mind? You have you
remembered anything useful that you know might help us in

(17:54):
our investigation. And Damien would say no, because I told
you before I didn't know anything. Then I don't know
anything now, so what could I possibly add to your investigation?
And then she oh, that's unfortunate. Well, if you remember anything,
you know, She gives him her card, you know, call
me at this number if you remember anything, and then
she gets in the car drives away, and then right

(18:15):
after she would leave, all these other cars would just
come back and the whole thing would just start all
over again. And I should also point out that he's
living in Pacific Beach, which was in walking distance of
all of these interesting corporations like SAIC Science Applications International

(18:41):
Corporation and ATC American Technology Corporation, which specialized in creating
exotic weaponry non lethal weapons, you know, like the Colonel
John Alexander calls them non lethal weapons. Of course they'll
kill you, but they're they're non lethal weapons. Electromenetic weapons,

(19:03):
acoustic bullets, things like this is what they specialized in.
They they were these corporations were located literally within walking
distance where Damien was living. So, uh, Damien's one night,
I'm talking to Damien on the phone and suddenly, as
I'm talking to him, I hear this crash, uh, you know,

(19:27):
the sounds of like glass shattering, And I'm like, what
the what the hell is going on? And Damien is
now crouched under his table, was cradled in a ball,
with the phone next to him, and I'm hearing all
this cast going on in the background, and he's saying
that all the choch keys up on the up on

(19:47):
the mantle are like just shattering seemingly for no reason.
And and Damien's not I mean, Damiens been. He had
been homeless in Washington, d C. He'd been in and
out of jail, and because his father was an narcotic cop,
they'd always put him in the h They considered him
to be at risk from the other inmates because his

(20:09):
father was a cop, so he would always end up
in the same cell block as whatever celebrity was there
at the same time. So like in la he was
on the same cell block with the Menendez brothers and
OJ like back in the early nineties and then and
then around this time, just before all this, he had
been arrested and thrown into jail in Maryland, and he

(20:31):
was on the same block with Mike Tyson, and he
used to he used to check out books to Mike Tyson.
Mike Tyson would come into the library and check out
books on like onlike the Nation of Islam and things
like that, and Damien would check these books out to him.
So he'd been in and out of prison, you know,
he'd been around the block a few times. So he's

(20:53):
not someone who gets scared easily. But during this instan
he was like reduced to crying like a little girl
as these things were shattering all around him. Uh. And
he said to me, if not for the whole context
of all this, is not for having been arrested and
taken to the jail, if not for having been interrogated

(21:14):
by the n ci A s and all this, he
would have thought that this his house was haunted. He
would have thought that there was a Poulter guys in
his house, because that's exactly what it looked like.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
You know, now, did I also have didn't he also
have some sort of altercations with these mobs and set
like booby traps for him are similar similar to that.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Well, he would uh there was uh, there was the
food fight with the Feds. I think that was the
first time he actually tried to engage with them. He
he was, He's in his kitchen and they would have
these jarhead guys like stationed posted right on the other
side of the fence that was on the other side

(21:58):
the other side of his kitchen window. So Damien's there
like making lunch, and there'd be these two guys and
they'd be very loudly talking to one another about him.
Now again, this sounds like classic you know, paranoia, like
some sort of schizophrenic break. Right, So these two guys
are talking to each other about him, like insulting him

(22:19):
as if he's not there. And and so Damien takes
down from the cupboard a bunch of like like bisquick,
some ajello, PoTA sauce, peanut butter mayonnaise, and he like
mixes it all into this nice thick goo. And then

(22:39):
he suddenly darts outside and he just like dumps it
all over the wooden fence. And it goes into the
hair of these two jarhead guys and they and they
like they run off into the parking lot of the
Vaughn's trying to get this stuff off of them. I
mentioned that because I'm going to bring it up again later.
By the way, it's actually say nificant uh moment. Uh uh,

(23:02):
So all this, all the stuff is going on, and
and he he he describes to me what what I
I At first he was calling hallucinations, you know, but
that that's actually not the proper word for it. But
he he At one point he opened his his window

(23:22):
and outside the window was scenery that was had never
been there before. It was like this surreal alien landscape,
like a Boris Valleho painting, like with three moons in
the sky. And it was it was like, what the hell,
like did the apartment would did suddenly get teleported to
another planet? What the hell? What's happening? And he opens
the door as it's everything is fine, it's the parking

(23:46):
lot of the Vonds, et cetera. Uh, everything looks as
it normally. Would close the door, look out the window,
and it looks like he's on another planet or something,
some other dimension. Uh. And then and then there was
one night where he was in bed and they projected
this silhouette of a hand with a gun in it,
and it would like tilt down. The silhouette on the

(24:09):
wall would tilt down so it looked like the gun
was pointing at his head, and then it would tilt
up again. The same night, he had thrown his leather
jacket on the carpet and he watched as this black,
a morphous energy crawled across the carpet and then crawled
into the leather jacket, and the leather jacket kind of
filled up as this black and morphous energy entered it,

(24:33):
and then the leather jacket crawled across the floor and
then the stuff just sort of dissipated. What's interesting about
that is I was on a TV show called Transcending Reality,
which was hosted by four alien abductees, four people who
claimed to be alien abductees, and one of them was
Melnda Leslie, another one was a woman named Misha Johnson,

(24:56):
and were two other people and they were interviewing me
about all this. And you can actually see it if
you go to YouTube and put in like Transcending Reality.
Robert Gussie, I think it will come up when I
when when I mentioned this part to them, Melinda turned
to Misha and said, oh, you know, we've seen that
the black and morphous energy, and they all they all

(25:19):
nodded as if it was just some thing like you know,
but you know, as if I had mentioned going down
to get a carton the milk, you know, at the supermarket.
Like it was like totally, oh, yes, we've seen that.
We've seen that amorphous black blob energy crawling across the floor.
So I thought it was interesting that these four people
who all claim to be alien afdictees have seen the

(25:39):
same phenomenon when we know in Damien's situation, he wasn't
he doesn't claim that he was abducted by aliens, right,
and yet they were seeing the same phenomenon. So I
think that's interesting. Uh. So so then things get stranger
from there because, uh, he starts telling me that there

(26:03):
are invisible people uh in his house, uh, and that
they're interacting with him, like uh, pushing and pushing him over,
touching him, and and he said, he tells me that
he's in the bathroom and he's the bathroom mirror which

(26:25):
is on a hinge and you can open it in
the medicine cabinet is inside, right, he's he's opening the
bathroom mirror. And as the mirror was in motion, he
could briefly see one of these quote invisible unquote people
behind him. And he said that they were they were
very small. This person was very small, as in like
the size of a as he described it, like a jockey,

(26:46):
small and slender. Uh and in this kind of like
weird like like head to toe skin skin tight suit. Uh.
And and but he only could see it for like
a half a second. And I thought, okay, uh, if
this is some sort of like technology, like like light

(27:09):
bending technology, maybe it would make sense that that moving
in the mirror would affect it and you'd be able
to see it. And and you know, Damian is not
an optical physicist. He wouldn't have thought of that. But
as he was describing this to me, I thought that
kind of that kind of makes some sort of sense,
you know. Uh. He said, sometimes occasionally he would see

(27:30):
them as these little dots in the air, like little auras,
kind of like what some people see when they suffer
from very serious migraines. If you said, sometimes they see
these ore dots in the air. He said, that's that's
what it looked like, but kind of like the outline
of a of a small person, you know. Uh, and

(27:54):
and and so. While while all this is going on,
he also has this one day he describes that he
has this uh, what he described as like a waking dream,
really uh, like missing time. I I once again, I

(28:14):
was trying to call him. Several months have passed by
this point. He's losing weight, he's ernating blood, he has
like a constant metallic taste in his mouth. Uh. And
he has this incident where I tried to call him,
I couldn't get a hold of him, like three days past.
Finally I call, I get a hold of him, and
I go where I go, Where have you been? He goes,

(28:35):
what are you talking about? I go, well, I've been
calling him for three days? He goes, I haven't you know,
I haven't gone anywhere. I've been right here. And figure
out that like three days have passed and he hadn't
been aware of it. And he had what he described
as a waking dream where he was sitting on the
couch in the middle afternoon and these guys came into
the apartment. In this dream, quote dream unquote that he had.

(28:58):
These people came in ato the apartment, and he said,
in the dream, he crossed his arms over his chest
like in an X formation. Uh As they tried to
pry his arms off, and then they injected him with something. Uh.
And And I thought it was interesting that, like I said,
his drug of choice was arron. Uh. So he had
no problem with needles. He didn't, He didn't have any

(29:21):
fear of needles at all. And yet here he is
having this like weird nightmarage situation with someone coming in
and like sticking a needle in his arm. Uh. And
and and so he has he has like three days
of missing time, which you know, like classic alien induction
phenomenon as well, right, like going all the way back
to Betty and Barney Hill missing time, right. Uh? And

(29:43):
when that happened? Uh? That that obviously, all of this
is is concerning right.

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neutronics labs dot com.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
And by the way, all of his neighbors move out.
He's living in an apartment on a horn Blend Avenue. Slowly,
all the neighbors move out, one by one, and new
people come in. And when I the first person who
ever interviewed me about Camilio was Tessa Dick, who was

(31:40):
Phil Dick's widow. Phil Dick the science fiction writer who
wrote Do Android's Dream of Electric Sheep, which became Blade
Runner and Total Recall and Manned the High Castle, et cetera,
et cetera, and he wrote a book called Vallas v
A l I s in the early eighties that's probably
his masterpiece. And that book is based on these strange

(32:03):
experiences he had throughout the seventies where he and Tessa
were being harassed and having similar experiences. Is what I'm describing.
And when Tessa Dick read Tomlio, she said, thank you
for writing this book. It completely explains so many things
that happened to me and Phil in Orange County back
in the seventies. She said the same thing. The apartment

(32:23):
building they were living in, everyone moved out and these
new people moved in next door, and she they would
watch them moving weird machinery into the apartment next door
to where they lived. And she said, sometimes the radio
and she goes, I actually saw this happen. The voices
would come through the radio insulting Phil Again, that sounds
like a classic paranoid in the frontic kind of breakdown scenario.

(32:46):
But Testa Dix said, I also heard the voices, and
when we looked at the radio, it wasn't plugged into
the wall. So I think it's interesting that there's parallels
there as well. So when he has this weird, weird
around the time he has this weird missing time experience

(33:07):
just before that, I actually because I was I still
wasn't quite sure if this was happening or not, you know,
because I'm not there, not physically there. I'm leaning towards
thinking that he's not crazy, but I'm not sure. So
I said, I go, you know, no, didn't that n
CIS woman. Didn't she leave you a card? And he

(33:28):
said yes, I go, why don't you give me the
phone number? So I'm going to call her. So he
gives me the phone number. I call her, and the
transcription of that conversation is in the book. And when
I call her, she a She's very nonplussed. She seems
very offended that someone is calling her and asking her questions.

(33:53):
I say, I go, I'm I'm my name's Robert Gussie.
I live in Torrance. I have a friend, Damien who
lives in the Pacific Beach. I believe you know him?
She confirmed, yes, I do know him. I go, are
you he claims that you're following him, and she immediately
responds with, oh, no one in my agency is currently

(34:17):
following your friend, which I thought was like such a bizarre,
broken backed, convoluted sentence. It's like doing calisthenics with language
for a brain to come up with. You know, all
you have to say is yes or no? Right, No,
No one in my agency is currently following your friend.

(34:38):
It is such like legal ease, right, really cya kind
of language. It's probably true. Probably no one in her
agency was following him because she's farming it out to
other people, right, retired law enforcement, retired military, private security agencies,
all this kind of stuff. So he's no one my

(35:00):
agency is currently following your friend. Oh okay, so you
then it's okay if he leaves town then, and she goes, oh,
I would prefer that he not do that. Uh, And
and I go, well, he's not under investigation, right, She's like, no,
he's not under investigation. And I go, so it's okay
if he leaves town. Oh, that no, I would I

(35:22):
would prefer they not do that. Why, it just might
make things difficult later on. It doesn't make any sense.
He's not under investigation, but you don't want him to
leave town because it might make things difficult later on.
You know, it doesn't make any sense. The whole conversation
is in the book, and and it ended. It didn't
end well. I mean, she basically implied that that Damien

(35:44):
was crazy. And oh, by the way, before that, uh,
an interesting event occurs where Damien calls me and he says,
you know, this is like I'm going out of my mind.
I need it. I need this all to end. I
can't deal with this anymore. He had heard some rumor

(36:06):
through some friends of his that maybe these night vision
goggles that Eliot had had somehow ended up in the
hands of the Hell's Angels and they were using it
to using the night vision goggles to smuggle drugs over
the border between San Diego and Mexico. So Damian said,
maybe I could offer to Leada Johnson that maybe I

(36:27):
could help them retrieve the night vision goggles and then
they'll leave me alone, and I go, I don't think
that's a good idea. They're just going to think you
knew where they were all along, that this is some
kind of shakedown. And he's like, no, no, no, I think
it'll be fine. So he calls them and meets with
Lida Johnson and her superior. This is how serious they

(36:49):
were taking the situation. Leda Johnson meets with me in
at a bagel shop on Garnet Avenue. There's only one
bagel shop on Garnet Avenue, so if you're in the
Pacific Beach area, you'll know that you can go exactly
to where this meeting took place. Damien meets with Leada
Johnson and her superior at this bagel shop. They buy
him an orange juice and a bagel, and as they're

(37:11):
sitting there, Leda Johnson says something that I think is
a really interesting kind of keyhole into her consciousness and
also the consciousness of the people she's working for. She's
talking about how she grew up in Pacific Beach. It
was always such a nice place, you know, really upstanding
patriotic people lived here, and now it's just filled with

(37:36):
a bunch of scumbags and drug addicts and and and
we really we need to like clean up we need
to clean up the town. Now. Damien has some kind
of like candid like quality to him where sometimes he's
not aware of when he's being insulted. So it's obvious
to me that she was talking about him, and but

(37:57):
Damian's not getting that, and he says to her, Oh,
I absolutely agree. I hate those kind of people. You know,
we really need to maybe we can band together and
like deal with this problem. You know, that's why I'm here.
I'm offering my services to you. Well, how much do
you pay? And I could see Lena Johnson like her
blood pressure rising as Damian's not getting that she's insulting him.

(38:22):
And when finally when he proposes that that they like
put him on the payroll so that he can help
them retrieve the night vision goggles, her superior just gets
He gets red face, and he's like, I don't negotiate
with terrorists, you know, slams his his fist down on
the table, and he's like, yeah, you're welcome for the

(38:43):
bagel and the orange juice, as if the cost of
the bagel and the orange juice is equal to the
amount of psychic and physical trauma caused by months of
electronic harassment and all the other nonsense that face all
the unconstitutional survey was a harassment, as if the bagel
and the orange you somehow makes up for all of that.

(39:04):
And Damien just like he flips out on him. It
didn't end well. But in the middle of it, in
the middle of the conversation, Damien says to them, listen,
I just want to I don't want to have any
more food fights with the fits, and Lita laughs and
she goes, oh, that made us all laugh. And it

(39:25):
was like the one moment where the emerald curtain was
pulled back and she actually admitted that he was being surveilled,
because the whole point of operation is to make the
target think that they're going crazy, and you think, oh, well, Jesus,
maybe I'm not being followed, like maybe I'm just going
out of my mind. But she actually and I love

(39:46):
this because it's such a human reaction. She just couldn't
help it. She just involuntarily laughed and said, oh, yes,
that made us all laugh, like, yeah, it was really funny.
When he threw all that fucking goo in the jar space,
you know, that was really hilarious. And and so that meeting,
it didn't end well, and he goes back and he

(40:08):
tells me what happened, And I said, well, you know,
I could have told you that that's how it was
going to end. But so sometime after that that the
missing time occurs, he has the weird waking dream.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Now, let me ask I never got his hands on
the little jockey like people, and he was never able
to to capture one of these guys, right, Uh.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
He was he Uh he actually one of these guys
actually fell out of the tree outside his house and
he actually went out and was like throwing like flower
on him.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
And uh.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
And another point where he was at the beach and
he could actually see uh. Because it's not just this
this optical camouflage technology which we'll go on through later.
It doesn't just make people invisible. You can make vehicles
invisible as well. Uh. He on the beach, he actually
could see tracks forming in the sand on the beach

(41:08):
as this vehicle was following him around on the beach.
I don't recall him ever saying that he actually like
touched they touched him though, Yeah, I mean he had
physical contact with them because they they pushed him over.
So it was around that time during like the missing

(41:29):
Time thing that he meets this beachcomber dude at the
beach who's selling a van, got this black punishromobile vand
that he's selling cheap, like five hundred bucks or something.
And Damien, his wallet goes missing around the time of
the missing Dream things. Why he can't find his wallet?
He was going to buy this van, uh, And and

(41:51):
I thought, when he's telling me he's got metallic taste
in his mouth, he's urinating blood. And then the missing
time thing with the weird waking dream, Okay, something has
to be done about this. So I, without even asking him,
I sent him be a Western Union enough money to
buy the van. And I call him on the phone

(42:13):
and I said, listen, I just Western Union to you
whatever it was, five hundred dollars, six hundred whatever it was,
to buy the van. And when you send someone money
be a Western Union, you have to give them a code,
and then they go to Western Union, they give them
the password and then the password, you know, so they

(42:34):
don't just give them money to just anybody, right, So
I came up with the password, which was kind of
like an inside joke between the two of us that
was like pornographic in nature, which you can see in
the book. And I was going to give him the
password over the phone. He goes, no, no, don't give it
to me. He was scared that someone whoever was listening
was going to go and get the money first before

(42:55):
he could get there. He goes, let me pack up
everything and then I'll call back and give me the password.
And I go, okay. So he packs up all the
stuff and then he called you back and I'm just
about to give him the password, and the phone just
cuts off, just cuts off, just dies, And I'm like, what, Okay, Well,
maybe I was just a coincidence. So I called back,

(43:17):
I'm about to give him the password. It just cuts
off again, same exact moment. I called back a third time,
same thing, and I know this is like, this is unbelievable, right,
So I remember that when you place a collect call
to someone, there's a brief moment where the operator says, uh,
you know, will you accept the charges? There's a brief

(43:37):
moment when you can hear each other. So I just
I had I placed a Collect call to him and
the operator said, you know, would you will you accept
the charges? As she was saying that, I yelled out
a hint as to what the password was, and I
briefly heard Damien laugh because I knew he had heard
me and understood what it meant. And then it just

(43:58):
died again. He was able to go to the Western Union.
He knew what the right password was. He gets the money,
he buys the van from the dude at the beach.
He comes back, he starts piling everything into the van.
Now he goes to tell his landlord that he's leaving
for good, and the landlord couldn't be more relieved. The

(44:23):
landlord looked like worse than Damien. You know, Damien is
losing weight this entire time. The landlord's also losing weight.
He's like losing air. He's like completely going out of
his mind. And he was like, oh thank god. He
was actually like said, thank god that you're leaving. And
Damien puts a note on the door saying I've gone west,

(44:46):
which would have been right into the ocean, and then
he gets into his car, he gets into the van,
and he leaves. Now we thought, oh well, and a
lot of people who've been through this similar experience think
that if they just leave town, it'll end, and that
doesn't happen. It doesn't end. Damien calls me from like

(45:08):
a phone booth, so that at this point, like six
months have passed and we're now until like early two
thousand and four when he leaves, and he calls me
from a phone booth to tell me that there's like
a little circular craft that's following the van. Now keep

(45:29):
in mind, this is two thousand and four. Drones are
total science fiction at this point. They do not exist, well,
they don't exist commercially at this point. And so he's
describing something that sounds like a tiny flying saucer trailing
the van.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
You know.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
It's like you know what's next, you know, And he goes.
He takes the van all the way up into Texas.
He briefly meets Soupy sale Son. That's a whole that's
in the book, ye he he. And he's driving all

(46:11):
around with this circular little thing following him around the
whole time. At one point he stops off at a
bathroom in Minnesota and he goes in. This is the
second time when emeral curtain is pulled back. He goes
into the bathroom, he's washing his hands, he's about to leave,

(46:33):
and this guy comes in and is washing his hands
at the sink right next to him, and the guy
turns to him and says, if you would, if you'd
give it all back, this could this could all end.
Uh And and he didn't say it in like a
threatening ominous way. It was more like a pleading tone,
like like, please give the stuff back, so this can

(46:54):
all end for me, Like so I don't have to
keep following you around everywhere. Uh. And and right after
he said that, another guy comes in and grabs that
guy by the collar like drags him out of the bathroom.
And if the first guy had broken protocol or something,
uh like you're not supposed to engage you know. Uh,

(47:15):
So that that freaks out Damien. Uh. He at one
point he stops off in a Minnesota to see he
had had a child uh with with the next girlfriend
and they were no longer together, but she was living
with the son in Minnesota and and uh she tells

(47:38):
him that these these two guys showed up to tell him, Oh, uh,
if you see Damien, let us know, contact us at
this number. And she's like, is he wanted for something?
Oh no, Uh, but you know he's been talking about
doing things you know, it's like very like vague but ominous.

(48:00):
He's been talking about doing things, you know. Uh, he
had At one point, his van breaks down on the
side of the road somewhere around uh like Kansas, and
these two good old boys stopped off to help him

(48:21):
fix the van, and uh, they couldn't fix it right away,
so they suggest bringing him back to their house. And
I get a phone call, like at ten thirty at night,
and there's this voice I've never heard before, this guy
with a thick, thick Southern accent. And the guy goes,

(48:42):
h are you are you, Professor Guffy? And I go yeah,
And he goes, you know Damien uh? And I go,
oh what, uh, what's happening now? Uh? And and he
proceeds to say that Damien's van broke down. They couldn't
fix it, but they brought him back to their house

(49:03):
and that this guy Damien told us this really weird
story about invisible midgets and little flying saucers and uh,
you know, a weird black energy crawl across the floor.
Is what's wrong with this guy? Is he possessed by demons?
Like these two guys thought that Damien was like possessed
by some evil entity and that they needed to like

(49:24):
exercise it from him. And I explained that I go, no, actually,
everything he's saying is perfectly uh correct. Uh. And I
told him I told the guy a kind of shortened
version of everything I've just told you. Yeah, And he's
still he still sounds maybe like a tiny bit skeptical.
As I'm talking to him on the phone, he turns

(49:46):
to his buddy and he's like, uh, you know, Jeb
or wherever the hell the guy's name was cut, come
over here. As I'm talking to the guy on the phone,
they look out the window of their house and there's
a little drone flying saucer hovering outside that followed them
from the spot where the black van had broken down.

(50:07):
And these two guys are like going out of their
mind now. And I said, I go, look, this is
why he's in the van while he's driving around. I go,
if you could fix the van, that would be really
that would be fantastic, so he could just keep going.
And so I actually convinced them to fix the van,

(50:28):
and they fixed it. He ends up in this little
tiny town called Winona, Kansas, which has like one hundred
people living in it, maybe a little more than that,
but not that many. Uh, And for some reason, when
he got to Wynoda, Kansas, the harassment just stops. Now.

(50:48):
I don't know if it's because it was such a
small town that people are going to notice a parade
of jar heads following the sky right through the middle
of Wynoda, Kansas. I mean, it's not like San Diego
or La or New York where you could be surveilled
and harassed forever and no one would even notice it, right,
And this is like a tiny town. So I don't

(51:10):
know if they pulled back because of that, or because
everyone in the Wynda, Kansas has guns and this optical
camouflage technology it's not bulletproof, so uh, maybe that's why.
Or maybe they just pulled back so that later on
they could pull the rug out from under him and say, oh,
you know, you thought you everything had stopped, but it hadn't.
For whatever reason, the harassment like ends. When he gets

(51:33):
to Ioa, Kansas. He's actually able to kind of pause
collect his thoughts a bit. He actually gets a house
in Waynona, and he gets a job, and as he's
there and he's he's kind of allowed to have some
breathing room he's going on the Internet and he's scouring
the internet looking for anything that explains what he has

(51:55):
seen in regards to these invisible people, and he comes
across an article about this guy in Japan named Professor
Tashi who had invented something that he called an invisibility cloak,
but that didn't look like it because it only makes
the person invisible from one angle. This was not that,

(52:17):
you know. What he was seeing was like a three
hundred and sixty degrees, you know. And he finally stumbles
across his website called Camellio dot net and there's this
guy named Richard Schonger who has a top secret clearance
and he's a thirty third degree freemason, thirty third degree

(52:39):
Scottish righte freemason in Long Beach, and he describes this
technology that he's created and it sounds very similar, you know,
he's reading the patent and everything. It sounds like Damien
thinks this is the closest to what he experienced. And
he tells me, go look at this website, and I
look at it and I'm surprised to see there's like

(53:00):
an about me section where Richard says, you know, he
works at Northrop Grumman. He's worked in the defense industry
for decades. He has a top secret clearance, and this
Camello Optical camouflage project is like a private endeavor on

(53:22):
his part. It's not something he's doing in connection to
the government. And he also mentions that he's a thirty
three degree Scottish right free Mason in Long Beach. Now,
I am a thirty second degree Scottish Rite free Mason
in Long Beach. So I suddenly realized that I have
to have we're part of the same lodge, Like I

(53:44):
had to have met this guy at some point, but
I don't remember meeting him. And I sent him an email.
I go, look, my name is Robert Guffie. I'm a
thirty second degree Scottish right Mason in Long Beach. I go,
I'm a writer. I've interviewed people. I've interviewed people like
Bishop Stephen Heller, who's the bishop of the Gnostic Church

(54:07):
in la I've done articles about Gnoscissism and other, you know,
esoteric things, and I'd like to interview you about your technology.
He writes back, And maybe he writes back because I
said I was in, you know, in the same lodge
as him. He writes back and he says, you're sure, Uh, yeah,
we can get together. I know Bishop Heller, I've been

(54:30):
to the Gnostic church. Uh, let's meet at the lodge
next Saturday. Uh. So I called Damien and I go
that he wants to meet with me. I'm gonna interview
him on Saturday, and Damien he goes, I'm going to
be there. So he's been having some sort of dispute
with his landlord, so he bought a bunch of like
wet cement and poured it down the drains in the

(54:53):
kitchens sink and in the bathroom sink and in the
bathtub before just taking off. Uh. He gets into the
into the van and drives back all the way to
Long Beach and he meets with me like the day before,
and we decide that I'm going to go to the
Scottish Rite Saturday morning. I'll meet Richard. Then afterwards, me

(55:16):
and Damien are going to take Richard to lunch. So
I go there. I meet Richard and I suddenly realized
that I had never met him formally, but I had
seen him performing the rituals because he had a very
distinctive voice, and I immediately recognize his voice and he's,
you know, nice to meet you. We'll meet after the rituals.

(55:38):
So we do, and it's like now it's lunchtime. He
takes me out into the parking lot where his car is.
His license plate SPEs Camello on it. He we I say, well,
well we're gonna meet I go, this is my friend Damien.
We're going to take you to George's Greek Cafe on
Pine Avenue in Long Beach. So we take him there,

(55:59):
we have lunch. He's a very interesting guy. But I
have to say I did not think that anything Richard
was going to say was going to tie in with
Damien's situation. I really didn't. I thought that was like
the biggest long shot in the world. But I thought
maybe I would get some sort of interesting interview out
of it. Anyway, Me and so we decide we're going

(56:20):
to conduct the interview in my office on campus at CSU,
long before I teach. So we meet him there, We
sit down, I start the interview, and before Damion ever
even says a word to him about his situation. We
haven't said anything about it yet, Richard starts talking about

(56:42):
his technology everything He says, just lines up perfectly with
everything that Damion has already described to me. He just
off handedly begins the interview by mentioning that he's already
initiated a lawsuit against the military because he believes that
they stole this optical camouflage technology from him. He mentions

(57:03):
that he had met with the Navy. He'd taken him
to his he had taken them to his laboratory that
he shared with doctor lev Berger, an eminent physicist out
in Hemmett, and had showed them the whole proposal. The
Navy was very interested, extremely interested, and in fact, I

(57:24):
have a paperwork, James R. Hogg, Admiral in the US Navy,
wrote to Richard, and I'm holding the letter in my hands.
Dear mister Schonger, The CNO Strategic Studies Group thanks to
you for your informed of thoughts regarding Project Emilio. Your
insights on adaptive camouflage and its applications to the maritime

(57:47):
force have stimulated the group's thinking and dealing with this
critical topic. We would also like to thank doctor lev
Berger for the views and comments and the tour of
his laboratory, the open exchange of ideas and your candidate
observations will clearly aid in our work. Thanks for your
strong support of the SSG. Sincerely, James R. Hog Animiral,

(58:09):
US Navy, And there's other documentation of this. They meet
with the Navy, seems extremely interested until a certain point
and then they kind of just go silent. Then he's
approached by s A i C. Special Applications International Corporation,

(58:33):
which is one of those corporations I mentioned was based
in San Diego, just within waukee distance of Damien's apartment.
They met with Richard, and Richard took them out to
the laboratory and they seemed extremely interested and well as well.
And then but then nothing, just silence. They would just
go cold. And he tells us about this. He tells us,

(58:55):
you can use this kind of technology for all kinds
of different things. He goes, in fact, part of the
original patent, And I should know that Richard Schoungert is
documented the first person to be awarded a patent in
optical camouflage technology. Richard said in the original patent, he goes,
you could use this not just to make soldiers invisible

(59:16):
on the battlefield, but you could also use this for
psychological warfare purposes because you could use you could you
could use this to make people think that d're on
another planet, or that a tree is actually an elephant.
I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but one of

(59:37):
the things that was happening to Damien in Pacific Beach
was that you would come home and his apartment would
get larger or smaller, like doctor who's tartist. You'd go
into this apartment and one of his friends said, is
your apartment getting larger? In other words, it seemed to
be growing on the inside, so that it was larger

(59:58):
on the inside and it appeared on the outside, or
sometimes it would appear to shrink. And it wasn't just
him who saw this. His friends noticed this as well,
and just completely not prompted by anything we said. Richard goes,
you know, you can use this technology and make it
look like a room is larger on the inside than
it is on the outside. You can make it seem

(01:00:19):
like it's smaller than it actually is. He goes, you
could you could make a foreign dictator just go out
of his mind, thinking he's seen all kinds of crazy things.
He goes to it has psychological warfare advantage too, and
and just all the way down the line, point by
point by point. He starts mentioning all the stuff that

(01:00:41):
just aligns perfectly with Damien's experiences. And I had told
Damien beforehand, I go, don't say anything, just like, don't
don't interrupt him, because when you're interrupt someone, when you're
interviewing them, you might cut off some essential point that
they might bring up. You know, I just don't just
wait until my signal, don't say anything. So we would

(01:01:02):
kind of like exchange like wide eyed glances during these comments,
but we didn't say anything. We just let him talk
for the most part. And that whole conversation is in
the book Camilio. Near the end the first half of
the conversation, I say, okay, I think it's time for
Damien to tell you his story. And Richard like tenses

(01:01:24):
up a little bit. You can tell like he seemed
a little weary, like maybe we were about to sandbag
him with something. Like he seemed like on guard, like, oh,
what's this? What's this? Then? Uh? And and Damien starts
telling him the story. And I think you can see
when you read the transfer transfer of the conversation, I
actually have to kind of step in at a few
times to clarify things, because I think Damien was really spinning.

(01:01:50):
I think his brain was spinning, because I really think
that Damien was holding on to the hope that he
actually was just crazy, because that's something that you can
deal with. You can take pills, you can get help.
You know, that's something that's manageable. This not being is

(01:02:10):
him not being crazy, that's not so manageable. Uh. And
so here was confirmation at last. I mean, think about it, like,
you're being harassed by this thing and you don't even
quite know if it's happening or not. Then suddenly you're
in the room with the guy who invented the technology. Uh.
And and so Damien starts telling him the story. And

(01:02:32):
at first Richard looked like, what, you know, what is this? Uh?
And when? But when Damien got to the part in
the story when he said that he opened the medicine
cabinet and he could briefly see the invisible people in
the mirror, like Richard like, he leaned forward and he
said he said, yes, that would make sense because the

(01:02:55):
the technology is cloaking the person, but the mirror is
not affected by that. Uh. And then and then when
Damien said sometimes he would see them as these little
like auras, like little sparkling auras in the air. He
leaned forward even further, and Richard said, that's exactly what
it looks like when the technology is not working properly.
And and Richard knew that Damien would have no Damien's

(01:03:17):
not an optical physicist, neither am I. He knew that
neither of us would know that. Uh. That that's only
you would only know that if you had worked with
this technology, and how many people had worked with it.
Uh uh And and that by but you can sell.
By the end of the interview, he's completely one convinced
that Damien is telling him the truth. And he goes,

(01:03:39):
I think he goes, they they needed a guinea pig,
and and and you were there. You were a convenient
guinea pig. I've had friends who I was talking to
at the time, fellow I was talking to my friends
of fellow professors about what was happening to Damien. And
one of them said, why wouldn't they just do this
experiment with this on can Pendleton. Why would they just

(01:04:02):
pick some random guy and do it to him? And
I said, because it has to be in real time
you pick someone who doesn't even know what's happening to
see when does the technology break down. You don't want
to figure that out after you've already deployed it in
a battle situation. You want to know when it breaks
down before you get into a situation where you're dealing
with people who has web guns and who can shoot you.

(01:04:26):
So this is the perfect opportunity. He'd already pissed him off,
so why not put him on on the list? You know,
And I wouldn't doubt if that guy who stole the
tank was going through some sort of similar situation. If
you watch this documentary Cul de Sac, it's it's amazing
because it's happening in the same exact neighborhood where Damien

(01:04:48):
was living, but just a few years before Damien got there.
And I've you know, I went around. I didn't. I
thought that that Damien talking to Richard was going to
make him feel better, but instead, like I said, I
think it it made him feel worse because he realized
that all this stuff absolutely was occurring to him. And

(01:05:09):
I actually kind of lost touch with him not long
long after that for a couple of years, and I
I kind of tried to just put the whole thing
out of my mind. I stayed in contact with Richard,
but it was just too overwhelming, Like I didn't even
know where to begin, how do you even begin writing

(01:05:31):
all this? Like it just seemed like just a mess.
And one of my favorite books that I discovered when
I was eighteen was is the Mothlam Prophecies by John A. Keel,
And later on I realized that the events in that
book take place in sixty seven sixty eight I think,
but the book doesn't come out until like seventy five,

(01:05:54):
something like that, seventy six, And in later interviews, John
Key talked about how it was so disturbing everything that
was happening that he just tried to put it out
of his mind at a certain point and just move
on with his life and go on to other things.
And it took him about seven eight years before he'd
come back and actually write it down. But he had
kept all these notes about what had happened. And in fact,

(01:06:17):
there's a website dedicated entirely to archiving John Hill's notes,
and you can see what a copious note taker he was. Well.
I also had a lot of notes. I had a
bunch of notes. I had conversations with Damien that I
had recorded conversations with me, like talking to other people

(01:06:38):
about it while it was happening, and I recorded it
just so that I could remember everything, all the dates
and everything. So it was around about like twenty ten,
the spring semester at CSU Long Beach, and I was
teaching a class called the Literature of Science Fiction. And
after class one day, a student came up to me
and he said, hey, he goes, can you think of

(01:06:59):
anything that we think of Everyone thinks of as science
fiction but it's not. And immediately I said, oh, visibility technology.
We think of that as science fiction, but it's not
science fiction. And then I go into a kind of
abbreviated version of the story I just told you. By
the end of it, his jaw is like hitting the
floor and he goes, oh my god, can you tell

(01:07:19):
this story in class next next class? And I go, okay, well,
just you know, remind me and I'll tell the story.
When he left, I sat down. I crouched down in
the middle of the hallway. I pulled a spiral notebook
out of my bag and I wrote down bullet points
everything I just said to him in the order that

(01:07:39):
I said it, and it's kind of like one of
those kind of no brainer things. Oh, just tell the
story in chronological order, exactly as it happened, ye, But
for some reason that didn't occur to me until I
told the story out loud to this guy, to this
guy who had no knowledge of any of the characters
involved or anything. And when when I told him the story,

(01:08:02):
it was like it was just clarification. Okay, this is
the way to tell the story so that someone else
can understand it. And that that page of bullet points
became the outline for Camelio that I then wrote that
following summer. But the next time we had class, he
reminded me to tell the story, so I did. I
told the story that everyone in the class. Now, there

(01:08:23):
was one guy in the class who was in the
ROTC program, so he would come to class every day
wearing full military uniform, and he was very officious and
very formal with me. He'd always say sir. He'd raise
his hand in the air and say sir. And he

(01:08:47):
at the end of me telling the story, he stiffly
raises his hand in the air and says, sir. I
can't say can't. I cannot provide specifics, but what I
can say is that in my training with the ROTC,
I've been told things that align perfectly with the story

(01:09:09):
you have just told us. At everyone in the class
was like, what the fuck you know, because they thought
I was I don't know, spinning a yarn or something.
I don't know what they thought, but they seemed skeptical.
But then when he said that, they seem to tad
a bit less skeptical. So it's amazing how synchronicity plays

(01:09:30):
a huge role in the story. I mean, the student
asking me that question at that exact moment that led
to me writing the book. Now, maybe I would have
written it eventually later, but that's what sparked me to
finally kind of break myself out of the self imposed
hypnosis I put myself in because I just didn't want

(01:09:51):
to deal with the insanity of it all. And also
the synchronicity of Damien. They chose Damien as a target,
and they often choose people who they feel are isolated.
You know, why not pick a drug addict, Why not

(01:10:12):
pick someone who's homeless, Pick someone who has no credibility
or has very few connections to family, and friends. Right,
So they picked this guy, but they have actually no
idea that they picked a guy who has a friend
who's a thirty second degree scuts write Freemason in the
lodge where the guy who invented the technology is also

(01:10:33):
a member. I mean that synchronicity is one thing like
you just can't control that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
No, it's incredible and it's something that's led me to
where I am right now. I always got to pay
attention to the universe's message, to the synchronicities that are occurring.
It's super important in my reality. Now, we've got a
few minutes left, Robert, I would love to get your
insights into the implication of some of this technology as
far as with what we're seeing now with ufology, the

(01:11:06):
admittance by our own government, who has the best track
record of always telling us the truth about everything about
UFOs and aliens, and the implications of what have possibly
been occurring over the decades when it comes to abductions
and people's reports of some of this seeming technology that

(01:11:29):
sounds a lot like what we've discussed now being involved
in many of these cases and as well as many
of these cases where the individual will report a military
presence along with extraterrestrials or something non human, which is
also interesting. And it also has implications into some things

(01:11:50):
that we might just consider paranormal or poltergeist or hauntings.
So what do you think about that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
There's a lot fun path there. But I should point
out I wish I'd known this when I wrote Camillio.
I didn't find it out until later. Jose Delgado was
one of the premier and Michael Ultra mind control scientists.

(01:12:19):
He was born in Spain and he had done experiments
in the nineteen fifties that made the newspapers where he
cracked open the skull of a bull and he put
this implant into the bull's brain and he hopped into
a bull ring. Now, of course, this is Spain. The

(01:12:41):
ultimate symbol of machismo is biting a bull, right, So
Delgado did this with remote control. He got into the
ring with the bull, and he had a little remote
control device under his the red cape, and he was
able to make the bull walk backwards and forwards based
on pressing this button. That made the newspapers, and it

(01:13:03):
got the attention of the CIA and they gave him
a cushy position at Yale, where he proceeded through his
research for many decades. So in the late sixties he
writes a book called Physical Control of the Mind. He
experimented on female mental patients, prisoners, children, the female mental patients.

(01:13:26):
He would he would make he would he could instill
orgasms remotely from afar. He could he could dilate the
pupil of one eye while leaving the other why the
other eye unaffected remotely from another room. And this was
all the purpose of this. The subtitle of the book

(01:13:47):
is something like the psycho civilization of society the whole
point of this. And we're talking about like a clockwork
orange type of stuff here. You know, we're going to
find out who the criminals are at birth and then
we'll psycho civilize them, you know. And I had no

(01:14:07):
idea I had. I knew who Jose Delgado was, and
I had actually read Physical Control of the Mind because
I was friends with Walter Bowart, who wrote Operation Mind Control,
which was the first important book about MK ultra that
came out, and I think seventy six or seventy seven,

(01:14:29):
and it came out from Dell, a major publisher, and
I knew Boart. I met him in the late nineties,
so I had read Operation Mind Control. I was already
familiar with who Jose Delgado was, and in fact, I
write about Delgado in my first book, Cryptoscatology Conspiracy Theories

(01:14:52):
art Form. Cryptoscatology is the word I made up. It's Latin.
Cryptos Latin for secret scatology means the study of shit
you put together. It's a study secret shit. There's a
chapter in there called Honey, did you leave your brain
back at Langley Again? Which is all about Jose Delgado,
Lewis Giant West and you gotta leave all these Immican
ultra scientists. Well, I didn't learn until after Camilio was

(01:15:13):
published that Jose Delgado retired. And when he retired, he
retired to San Diego. He was living in the same
exact area where Damien. When when he was living in
the same exact area as Damien when all this happened
to Damien in two thousand and three. Supposedly he's retired,

(01:15:34):
but I think maybe he was still having some fun
in sunny San Diego.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
That's highly possible, man.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
And also you mentioned the paranormal aspect of it. It's
it's interesting that s A. I See was located right
across the street in the in the Old Town area
of San Diego. It was located right across the street
from the Whaley House, which is infamous among paranormal investigators.

(01:16:05):
It's known as the most haunted house in California. Uh
And actually went there. I went to the Whaley House
in two thousand and eight. My friend and I drove
to San Diego. We went back to Damien's apartment and
we actually charged the route. We followed the route from
Damien's apartment to sai C uh and, and you know,
it was you could walk it. Uh and and across

(01:16:26):
the street from Sai See was the Whaley House. So
it's interesting fact. Did sa I See build it because
something special about that location? I mean, we you know,
John Keel talked about window areas uh uh areas where
more paranormal events occurred than in other areas. Uh So,

(01:16:49):
did they build the location of Sai C. Did they
build it there because there's something special about the geography
about this particular location, or do they build it there
so that when they're experimenting with their exotic technology, something
weird happens. People just shrug and say, oh, isn't that
where the Whaley House is that they don't have to
have haunted location, right? The same with like the Skinwalker Ranch.

(01:17:14):
If you read colemb Keller her and George Knapp's book,
there's weird parallels. If you read Camellia on the two
books like back to back, you see weird synchronicities between
the two books. But you know, if you want to
experiment with exotic technology, why not pick a place that

(01:17:34):
has the reputation of being haunted, you know, than anything
that you do would just be dismissed as just part
of the local lore.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
It just makes me wonder how long our military industrial
complex has been tinkering with some of these exotic technologies.
You mentioned the case even in the seventies where it
was a general and his wife experiencing paranormal activity. If
that was also a technology being used back then, how

(01:18:08):
long has this been being implemented. I'm pretty sure that
our military industrial complex has cracked free energy or even
off planet type of technology.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
It's interesting, you know, you mentioned my Labs earlier. I
don't know if you mentioned it by name, but you
mentioned alien abductions in which military there's also a military
presence in the abduction. The two women I mentioned earlier,
Melinda Leslie and a Misha Johnson who interviewed me on

(01:18:46):
that transcending reality TV show, they were both self professed
alien abductees, and yet both of them have also had
these my lab experiences, you know, being abducted by military people,
and the my lab experiences laying that when they're when
they're reabducted, first they are abducted by what appeared to
be aliens, and then and then there they are returned,

(01:19:08):
and then later they're re abducted by military people, and
often the experiences they have with the military are far
more horrific the experiences that they that they report, uh
in the presence of these ostensible extraterrestrials, which I think
says something interesting about human beings. But uh uh, it's

(01:19:30):
interesting to note. And there's a there's a researcher named
Joe Montaldo who has his own podcasts and I can't
remember the name of it at the moment. I'm sure
if you just google Joe Montaldo podcast you'll be able
to find it. Uh. He's done a lot of research
into Betty and Barney Hill, and it's obvious that they were.

(01:19:51):
They were my labs. There is also a military presence
in there in their case as well, though it's it's
very little known. You should think about talking to Joe
Montaldo about betting Barti Hill. It's really fascinating the amount
of research he didn't into that case. The originally the
first part of Emilio that ever appeared anywhere, I published

(01:20:15):
a brief extra from my interview with him in the
pages of UFO Magazine round about two thousand and seven.
And the reason I published it there was because, you know,
you might think, well, it's ostensibly has nothing to do
with UFOs, it's about optical camiflage technology. But it was

(01:20:36):
William Burns's wife, Nancy Burns, who wanted to publish it
in UFO Magazine because she recognized the fact that this
was significant, that it actually does time into UFOs. I
wanted people to be able to read it, to people
who read UFO Magazine to read the interview with Richard,
and they might come to their own conclusions. Oh wait

(01:20:58):
a minute, you know, maybe what I thought was happening
to me is this other thing, you know, And I
actually did. But at the same time, I don't want
it to make it sound like I'm saying that all UFO,
all paranormal phenomenon can be blamed on this. There's an

(01:21:18):
r follow up article I wrote called Invisible Predators in
the pages of Nexus magazine in the winter of last year,
when like January February of twenty twenty two, and it's
a very long article and it's all it's called Invisible Predators,
strange creatures, secret weapons, and shadow biospheres, And the main

(01:21:41):
purpose of it was to sort of bring some emotional
balance to the forty and field, because I've seen some
people use Camelio as evidence for the claim that all
paranormal phenomena, all UFO sidings, are the results of you know,
covert testing of exotic weapons. And in some cases that's true,
but obviously, like when you read Charles Schorts stuff and

(01:22:03):
he's talking about invisible beings, you know, in Europe in
eighteen ninety nine, I doubt that that was SAIC right,
because they didn't exist yet, you know. So even Richard
talked about how I think that Richard's optical camouflage technology
could be described as like a cargo cult version of

(01:22:24):
a phenomenon that already existed. You know, back in the
old black and white Tarzan movies, you see like a
pre industrial native cultures and they'll see a plane flying
over and then they build like a plane out of
bamboo and worship it. Richard, and those are called cargo cults, right.
Richard Shounger described to me how he started getting into

(01:22:46):
UFOs in the sixties, started reading books about it and
became very interested in it. And he noticed that a
pattern amongst all these reports was that UFOs would often
either de materialize, or they would they would teleport, or
they would go invisible, and they have the ability to
cloak themselves. And Richard got fascinated by that, and he thought,

(01:23:07):
how could you replicate that with the technology we have today?
And that eventually leads to him successfully getting the first
patent in this technology in the early nineties. And so,
you know, it's almost like the natives looking up and
seeing the plane and building some sort of replica of that.

(01:23:29):
It's like Richard is looking at the UFO phenomenon and saying,
how do you replicate that? So he tries to do
his best to do that, and the Project Camellia was
the result of that. So you can see that he's
responding to something that was that already existed.

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
Yeah, this is incredible. The book is amazing. I'm going
to have the link right there in the description for
everyone to easily access it. Robert, thank you so much
for coming on. We're going to have to discuss more
in the future. There's plenty more we could get in
to you write about all the topics that we love here.
But before you go, if the audience would like to
find out more about you, what's a good way they

(01:24:08):
can do so.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
I have a website cryptoscatology dot com, and all of
my books are on Amazon, and I just published this September. First,
I published a new novel called Dead Monkey Rum, which
is if you're into cryptozoology, you probably be interested in
Dead Monkey Rum. And I have another book, a collection

(01:24:33):
of short stories coming out this January called Cryptopolis and
Other Stories. I like the word crypto obviously. Cryptopolis and
Other Stories coming out in January, and all my books
are on Amazon.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Perfect, Robert, thank you so much. As was fantastic. We'll
do it again in the future. And today I want
to welcome back to the show Rob Gothier. He is
an extraterrestrial channeler, author and founder and host of the
EnL Lightenment Evolution Network as well as the Enlightenment Evolution
Our podcast. Rob. Welcome back. How you doing.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
I'm doing great, Brothers. I'm glad to be back. It's
not always nice to talk to you and chat with you.
I really love the work that you do in general,
and that it's always a pleasure to speak Thank.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
You, Rob. It is great to have you back. I
enjoy our discussions as well, always fascinating information you present.
Today we're going to be getting into your new book,
Healing Sexuality a Palladian Perspective, which is an exploration of
the nature and evolution of human sexuality, trauma and healing.

(01:25:41):
And this information was channeled by your Palladian Guide and
the book covers everything from the history of human sexuality
to even the causes of ancestral trauma and techniques to
clear it. So there's a lot we could get into
in this book, lots of fascinating information. Before we do, though,
it's been a while since you've been on. Remind the

(01:26:02):
audience just a little bit about yourself and what led
you to write the book.

Speaker 3 (01:26:07):
Yeah. Well, first of all, for a reminder, I'm Rob Gothur.
They call me to et whispers. So I've channeled a
lot of different beings, mostly my guide, radif Treb, and Metatron,
and those are the beings I mostly channel, and my
channeling history was a bit unique. I had a son
with a disabiliting and it led me into drug use,

(01:26:30):
and the drug use went from there to a spiritualist church,
and then that exploded the exploration of my spiritual journey.
And since the last time we've talked, there's been a
lot of things that I've been doing, mostly just getting
back out there. I don't know if we had talked
about the issue with my daughter, but my daughter's going

(01:26:52):
to be turning five in June this coming June, and
she was born with some medical difficulties, diagnosed with autism.
She's speech delayed, so there's a lot of things going
on with her that once you know, my wife, Callina,
was pregnant with her. She had a rough pregnancy too,
so we quit doing a lot of the work that

(01:27:13):
we're doing outside of just personal one on one sessions.
And since she had her fourth surgery when right before
she turned four, she's more stable now, so we're able
to jump back out there and I've been doing more stuff,
and a lot of that includes channeling. I did a
course with channeling, and the guy who helped me, a

(01:27:36):
friend of mine named John, who helped me do all
the coursework. He asked Ardif one night, he said, what's
the one topic that can help the most humans? Because
we want to get as much help to as many
people as we can, and he said, sexuality. Sexuality is
a thing that was really big with our human collective.
It's something that all of us have or deal with

(01:27:57):
at one level or another, thing that a lot of
humans have a hard time with. It's also something that
we carry a lot of trauma with and a lot
of unexpected answers came from that. So we channeled the course.
We did it, I think it was a four week course,
and then in between the channelings that we had dropped
out to the public, then they would ask questions, and

(01:28:20):
by the time it was done, we had already transcribed
it for the people in the course. So we figured,
this is some of the most amazing information about sexuality
that I've ever heard channeled. So we created a book
from it, and we decided that that would be something
because artis shared about how important it was for humans.

(01:28:40):
We figured that was a good thing. So my friend
John created it, took all of it, put it together,
and there it is. And you know, we haven't really
done anything with it. We self published it, you know,
just the people in our direct vicinity who already know
about our channeling and follow the work that we do,

(01:29:01):
they are exposures to it. But I really feel like
the contents of the book is really helpful for people
who kind of understand sexuality in general but don't have
an understanding of why these dynamics and Earth consciousness especially
are so difficult. And you know, I've channeled now since
twenty ten. I've been channeling like all the time since

(01:29:25):
that point. So at this point, there's not a lot
of new things that I hear in channeling. Like, you know,
maybe a couple times a month, I might hear a
fact that I never heard, but they're usually not facts
that are connected to a lot of things that are important.
They're usually about things that are out there in the
galaxy that aren't really important to us as humans. This

(01:29:46):
was the first time that I heard a ton of
information that I didn't know that helped me understand a
subject better. So That's why I felt this one was
really important.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
Tell us a little bit about your guide that you
channel disinformation through Ardif, Is that right?

Speaker 3 (01:30:04):
Yeah? Yeah, Artif's amazing being. He's not the first being
that I met. The first being I met was Treb,
and Trebb is like a higher dimensional guide of mine.
And like if you draw a line linearly in time,
then this being might be one of the future possible
incarnations of myself. So we're connected and our soul's connected,

(01:30:25):
and he perceives from that higher dimensional aspect. And I
channeled him for years and brought through that information. It
changed my life, just understanding things I didn't understand before. Well,
Ardif is like Treb with trev is to me, so
Ardif is a higher dimensional being that Trep connects to

(01:30:46):
that's a higher dimension than what he is. That also
brings insight this being Artif. He's from the star system
called Daneb even though a lot of people call in
the ancient Pleiadi, and the reason they call that is
his race evolved in the Pleates region and then moved
out to the Stardenum. He's a sixth density consciousness, which

(01:31:07):
is like the last area of physical consciousness. Where we
have bodies, and their bodies aren't quite the same as
ours because they're in a higher dimension. So to us,
they're very non physical or you know, etherical or higher dimensional,
and his consciousness to them is just as physical as

(01:31:29):
ours is to us. You know, we're in the same dimension.
We're experiencing, feeling, touching, but to us it would just
appear to be above what light is, and light is
so non tangible, non physical, non feelable. Even though we
get to experience the dynamic of light, the warmth, and
you know, the actual brightness of it, we still can't

(01:31:49):
put it in a container and touch it, you know.
So their physicality is even higher dimension than the light
is in our dimension. So you know, a lot of
humans would say they're non physical, but they are physical
in their own dimension, and that's a kind of complex
thing to go through, but they're they're really at the

(01:32:09):
very last part of evolution before you go back into
the systems of oneness, like the physical bodies of humans
are one level and then higher dimension and then you
get to a point after that part of the evolution,
at least from you know, Trebonardist's perspective that once they
leave that part and their cycles done there, then they

(01:32:32):
would go back into a full planetary collective and at
that time, you know, divide consciousness again and do what
they've said to that exists with all consciousness, which is
basically manifest multiple fractals of the large consciousness to have
the smaller experiences. And we see this in physical manifestation

(01:32:54):
throughout our universe. We see a whole universe that's broken
up in the galaxy. So the universe conscious business breaks
itself apart into individual galaxies, and all of those galaxies
have their own themes. And then you zoom in further
than that, and the galaxy fractalizes into solar system collectives,
which are different stars and planets that go around them,

(01:33:15):
and then you go down from that to each of
the planets, and then you go down from that to
the beings who live on the planets, and of course
you can go further. I mean, even the human body
is a universe of its own. You know, you go
on a molecular level, we have a universe there, and
you go into that molecule and you go into the
atomic world, and that's a universe of its own. So

(01:33:36):
it's interesting how the macro and micro go. But consciousness
is always starting from the top and fractalizing down. And
the reason consciousness does that in general is just to
have the experience of that division and all the themes
that are a part of the lower fractaled energies. And

(01:33:57):
when are it, IF's done with his part of consciousness,
he would go back to a planetary energy and then
start all over again. So start somewhere else as a
new being, as a new planet, new solar system, maybe
the same one. I'm not sure. It's very interesting the
way they've described how it works.

Speaker 1 (01:34:15):
So yeah, I was just talking to a guest yesterday
about the possibilities of infinite macroverses and micro versus the
ecosystems within our body that have ecosystems within themselves, and
then the realms beyond what we could perceive. Beyond our planet,
there are possible entities that are more expiritually advanced, more

(01:34:40):
technologically advanced, and it could keep going for infinity the
amount of universes and realities that we could be experiencing. Now,
Rob give us a synopsis of the book before we
break it apart a bit.

Speaker 3 (01:34:56):
Well, if you're looking at the total synopsis, human sexual
reality is a hard form of sexuality. You know, there's
different archetypes of beings that exist in the galaxy, and
humanoids are the type of being that we are. You know,
we look like a human. You see this in multiple
different et races, but humanoid sexuality is not always this

(01:35:20):
rough as it is on Earth. And then you go
into reptilian sexuality, and their sexuality is a very dominant,
a very physical, but not a very emotional or not
a very spiritual. I guess it is spiritual, just in
the sense of the body physics of it. And then
you go to like insectoids, which can be asexual and

(01:35:41):
all sorts of different things, and they're completely detached from
the idea of their sexuality for reproductive purposes only, you know.
And then you have av and feline just all these
different types of archetypes of physical bodies that experience. But
humans don't fit in the niche that we're in, and

(01:36:02):
there's a reason for that. You know, humans have multiple
DNAs that are in our body. There's like twelve different
races besides our human genetic that we were before we
had our genetics change, so we're introduced with a lot
of different archetypes of energy. Just in our consciousness alone,
there's aquatic, reptilian, humanoid, different types of humanoids. So we

(01:36:28):
have this very weird mixture of physicality, and even though
physically we present as humanoid, energetically we're kind of a
mix of all that. And it also started from a
really rough place too, where the human genetics was changed
kind of against the will of the humans on the ground. Now,
on a soul level, there's a recognition that everything that

(01:36:51):
is experienced has agreed upon on a level of a soul.
But in the physical sense, these beings didn't ask to
be changed or shifted, and our whole our whole history
was shifted through that. So just that alone is akin
to being raped as a society. You know, a group
of beings came in and just did what they wanted to,

(01:37:13):
and then multiple beings came in and was like, well,
we don't like what the last ones did, so we'll
change this and that. And this is why we have
contact with so many different types of races. They're all
part of our genetic makeup. This is why we hear
the words Pleadian and Syrian and Octurian and Reptilian over
and over again. Because all of these beings have some

(01:37:34):
of their genetic code splice into the human genome, and
it also affects us. You know, at first, when these
beings came to Earth and connected to the humans, that
shifted the genome, the human beings were more like, you know,
a primate type of being than what we are now,

(01:37:56):
even though we're still primate and are in that classification.
And if we weren't tampered with, you know, we would
have ended up something probably more like a bigfoot than
we would have a human being. And that part of
evolution jumped our evolution further ahead, way further ahead. It
made us conscious beings instead of animals, a third density

(01:38:20):
being instead of the second that we were. So when
you take a physical container and you throw it into
the future, but you don't adjust what's inside the container,
and you throw it into a part where it's supposed
to be evolved much further, you're going to have malfunctions.
And that's basically why our sexuality short circuits. That's why

(01:38:42):
a lot of trauma that our ancestors carry stick with
us through so many generations, and it's really the reason
why humans have messed up perspectives on sexuality in general.
And even though sexuality is not the only thing that
was affected by that shed of DNA and by that change,
it's definitely one of the biggest things and the one

(01:39:03):
that affects most people most of the time. Right on,
that was a great introduction.

Speaker 1 (01:39:09):
Let's start with a very big part of this the
history of human sexuality. What are some of the most
important pieces of this chapter that we should be looking at.

Speaker 3 (01:39:23):
Well, the story I just gave gives a lot of
that history. It's kind of the beginning in genesis point.
But I think too a lot of the energies that
surround the way that we were introduced with the very
first race that shifted us. The very first race that
shifted us, you know, the Samerians and stuff called it

(01:39:44):
the Onunaki, and this is what most humans call it.
But these beings weren't only human. I've heard people say
that they were reptilian, and I've heard people say they're humanoid,
but they're actually a mixture of both. This was a
feminine Pleadian race that came to Earth, but they had
wanted to explore their mascular inside of their energy, so

(01:40:04):
they shifted their own genetics and changed their own genome
and spliced it with rebellion genome, and that helped them
produce the more masculine energy instead of the feminine. When
you think about humanoid platings, you think are very loving
and very lighthearted beings, and they wanted a mask and
that strong, forceful energy, so they extracted that from them.

(01:40:27):
And when they came to humans, they just needed kind
of workers. And it didn't really get explained too much,
and it never has. And I've asked many times to
Trevinardiff and They're like, there was a lot of reasons
they did the shift. Mostly it was for a workforce. No,
it wasn't just about gold. There was a lot of reasons.

(01:40:50):
And when they did that, there were two different types
of beliefs from the Ananaki. I mean they had lived
on Earth long enough to become a part of it.
What is the theme of Earth? The theme of Earth
is is polarity and diversity. So living here long enough
and being from a higher dimension, they also have to

(01:41:11):
manifest the body into a lower dimension and put their
consciousness in And when they do this, they're also presenting
their own energy as a physical part of Earth too. Now,
and they spent thousands of years here. So eventually that
one group of Anaki divided into two, one of them
who saw us as tools, and the other ones who

(01:41:33):
adored us and loved us. And this group of beings
who adored us and loved us also had sexual relationships
with humans in that early time. This is where you
hear a lot of the stories in the Book of
Enoch and talking about the fallen angels having sex with
human and having giants of babies and things like this.

(01:41:55):
These stories were actually extracted from the very early part
of human history. Now there's a lot of nuance to
this too, because there wasn't just one visitation Onanaka came
two different times, maybe even three, But the first time
to change the genomen to do the work that they
were doing. But the second time they saw what happened

(01:42:17):
on Earth to humans. They saw how messed up we
were and was like, you know, the side that was
more feeling and caring for humans is like, we can't
leave them like this. We need to help them. So
they brought back many of the beings to teach humans
and to get us back on track, because the first
jump they had was much more advanced. But then you know,

(01:42:41):
the conscious thought, the heavy thinking, the processing of what
had been done to us, made some of the humans
kind of fight back, and then they kicked back the
genes and took a lot of the intelligence out. And
then when they left us, they left us better. The
first time they had found us, like before, they had
shifted the first genome, but they it was much less

(01:43:04):
than what it was by the time they had left,
and they're like, yeah, this ain't happen. We can't leave
these humans here to do it. So they brought a
lot of teachers. And this is where you jump in
time from the Sumerians to the Aztecs and the Incas
and all these people like Petzequadal, who was a being

(01:43:24):
who came and taught the natives there about science, about agriculture,
about a lot of things. Then you have the same
kind of history in Greek mythologies and Roman mythologies and
all of these different things. These were the beings coming
back and teaching us. And it's not all of the

(01:43:45):
stories that you hear from that time period, but a
lot of them were the Aanaki. Now at this point,
by the time they revisited us, there was a ton
of more racist coming this. You know, the first race
that saw the genome split that didn't like it, came
and changed the genome again, and then changed again, So

(01:44:05):
there were seven different There were massive changes, not just
little changes. There were probably tens of thousands, hundreds of
thousands of little changes that were done, but the big
changes came in seven waves. And out of those seven waves,
five of those were hybridized beings like the Onanaki, who
were half the eighty and and half reptilian, and then

(01:44:27):
two races were full genetics, and all of those genes
for whatever reason, some of them was to help us,
some of them was to pull us back, you know.
Reptilians didn't like humanoids with reptilian genomes in them. From
what I understood, the on Naki stole that DNA from

(01:44:48):
the Rebellion race and they did not like that at all.
So instantly there's two different sides of groups of beings
who are pushing on the earth collective to shift something
that the other one had done. And in all, in
all reality, it wasn't a great feeling thing for humans,
and it wasn't a great thing, you know, for the

(01:45:08):
beings who kept coming. Sorry, my chair is my hydraulic
in my chair is starting to I'm shrinking. So yeah,
that's kind of the history, and it's there's a lot
more to it than that, but that gives you a
good outline of kind of the history behind all of
the weirdness with humans in evolution and especially in sexuality.

Speaker 1 (01:45:33):
I can see how this can cause sexual confusion, imbalance, devancy.
You also write about this. What are some of the
concepts you cover in those ters?

Speaker 3 (01:45:45):
Uh, there's a lot of things that get covered, you know,
even sexual preferences. You have some people who believe, you know, homosexuality, bisexuality,
asexuality isn't normal? Isn't isn't right? And then you have
people who think they're born that way and the way
the artif in trep describing You're definitely born into a

(01:46:08):
sexual energy when you enter your body. You know, it's
kind of like a predestined thing. And a lot of
the time there are many reasons on a soul level
why people have those experiences. But it's not deviancy just
to follow the flow of your sexuality. It's actually really
opposite than that. Most people are afraid to follow their sexuality.

(01:46:29):
They have inhibitions. You know, even if I'm a weird
thing sexually that someone likes to do but is afraid
to tell their partners, or something they feel there's a
level of deviancy to something, you know, and they describe there.
There's really no such thing as sexual deviancy unless you're
breaking the free will of another human being, and that's it.

(01:46:52):
If you're in you know, co creation with another person
and it's mutual. There's really nothing in sexuality that has
any connotation or weight of guilt or deviancy to it
than what we place on it. And the whole energy
about sexuality in general, it's just been a rough one

(01:47:16):
for humans to do with. And I know that this
is different in societies and something that was brought to
my attention to a lot of places that are more
naturally inclined in earth energy, People who are indigenous to
a region where development of technology wasn't very high, or

(01:47:36):
places that you see that still have very tribal people.
Those people are usually really connected to the earth and
they don't have those sexual resistances that people like America,
Europe a lot of the more western styles societies have
and there's a lot of reason for that too. The

(01:47:57):
religious programming that comes in plays a big part of
the belief of what we should or shouldn't do Secy.
You know, if I sleep with everyone, is that moral?
If I only stay with one partner, am I losing
some form of my own sexuality? So these are the
big things that we fight with in a more Western

(01:48:19):
society that a more tribal and earth centric group of
people have no reservations about or no problems with. So
there arefinitely a lot of things that are added to
that that kind of connect to the difficulties that we face.
And sexuality, even a sexuality, is a concept that gets

(01:48:42):
explored in this book. And I never really think about
a sexuality because I don't. I've never known someone who
verbally said, hey, I'm an asexual person and you know,
a sexual being that they're not interested in sex with
anyone else. You know, the sexuality of one's own self
is the only sexuality they have, So they don't have

(01:49:04):
feelings for men or women. They might have sexual feelings
at some level, but it's usually just a self thing,
like a masturbatorial thing or some self fantasy. But most
humans who are a sexual tend to be non sexual
almost where they just they don't think about sex or

(01:49:27):
care about sex. It's not on their radar, and that
is a cutoff from sexuality in general. And I believe
the reason they said for that happening is that that
soul has had sexual traumas in so many lifetimes, or
that they've done it and mastered that sexuality of resistance,

(01:49:50):
so they just wanted a life without having sexuality be
a theme. Because if you think about it, every human
you know suality play is a small part or a
huge part of their life, even when we're not talking
to the act of sex itself. If you're talking about attraction,
if talking about sexual drive, if you're talking about the

(01:50:12):
hormones of sexuality, estrogen, estosterone, progesterone, all of these hormones
drive the personalities of us. Two you'll see a man
who has high testosterone be able to be more physical,
also can be more aggressive if they're if it's too high,
and if it's too low, you can see them being

(01:50:35):
laid back, more feminine in some ways, and less aggressive.
And then you see it in females too. You see
it in females who go through menopause, or you see
it in females who have hormone imbalances. The level of
their behavior, even on a cycle for the month, the

(01:50:56):
different cycles that they have for ministruation can shift so
much that their personality can follow that they can be
more irritated higher levels of one. And you know, females,
they're they're dealing with three different types of hormones, where
males are only dealing with one when theirs are going
down and three of them having to balance. They can

(01:51:18):
find a harder time dealing with that when they have
some kind of physical trauma that's related, like ovari insist
or something like that. So it is, it's it's very
fascinating aspect of it, but there's just so much in sexuality.
It's it's it's hard to think of one spot to
contend to that because you know, when when you say

(01:51:41):
the word sexuality, most people think either the act of
sex or was my preference in sexuality?

Speaker 1 (01:51:48):
Am my?

Speaker 3 (01:51:50):
You know, heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual, Or they think of their
relationship status and am I just with one person or
am I open relationships with all people? And they don't
really think about all the aspects of sexuality that are
like laid into those layers that are more deep.

Speaker 1 (01:52:11):
Talk a little bit about ancestral and soul level trauma
that's around sexuality and how we can clear and help
peel that.

Speaker 3 (01:52:22):
Yeah, see estral sexuality. It's a lot. It runs side
by side with a lot of the religious programming. So
there is something that's called a genetics, and basically what
that is is that things that our ancestors experience that
are Highen levels of trauma stay inside the body. And

(01:52:44):
that's a very animal aspect. Even though humans don't consider
themselves to animals, because we had that big jump, we
have more animal characteristics with us that we didn't get
a work through on our natural than what most beings would.
And the way that a human experiences time, the way

(01:53:09):
a human experiences life is so drastically different from an
animal or second density being. But this trauma acts a
lot like an animal trauma. So let me example, when
a dog is abused, right, they don't remember that they

(01:53:31):
were hit, you know, that's not how their brain would
process it. Their body stores that information. They're only living
in the moment. They're not thinking about the past, they're
not thinking about the future. They're living in that moment.
So when they're thinking about the abuse, it's stored in
the body as information. So when they see the hand

(01:53:54):
go up. That triggers the body's response to say, oh God,
I'm about to get hurt. My body has been hurt before,
and this is what causes it. So it's an automatic response.
It's called instinct, this animal instinct, and that energy is
passed down to their children through the genes because it's

(01:54:15):
hardwired in the body. Right now, a human a human
is different because a human can think about the past.
They can remember logically and inform these very vivid memories.
That says, every time I say something to my parent
that they don't like, they're going to hit me. So
that abuse can be remembered as a thought. It can

(01:54:38):
also be stored in the body as a response. But
also this human can think in the future, what can
I do not to get hit no more? What can
I do to prevent being harmed and create plans and
actions for that. So the animal lying is more hardwired
in the body. The human thing is more in the mind,
even though there's levels of it being stored in the body.

(01:55:01):
But because we had that jump, still have the hard
wire in the body, and this passes epigenetics down just
like animals do. So if an animal has ten generations
in one human household, if there's a breeder and these
people are abusive, you know, by the third fourth generation,
they're going to understanding that certain behaviors from a human

(01:55:24):
are harmful. The children will notice it in the adult
dogs when the human gets angry, raise their voice, puts
their hand up that they're going to hit them. So
it's instinctive. We hold trauma like that too. On a
different level. And because of the religious programming and all
the things, you know, all the changes we had, all

(01:55:45):
the jump starts that we had, all of these different things,
these traumas that our ancestor have gone through. Women have
been abused and raped viciously throughout our history. I mean
competing war parties in almost all of our history. When
they landed in a town, that's what they would do.
They would harm and hurt women and rape them. So

(01:56:08):
these traumas are passed down to their children. And it's
a trauma not to trust men. It's a trauma not
to be open to men until you find one that
you know won't fit a pattern. And for men, sexual
abuse happened to a lot of men during that time too,
a lot of men raping boys. You see that through

(01:56:29):
Greek history and Roman history, they used to have festivals
that did that, just raping young boys. So these things
are really really difficult for that person, so they carry
it in their body and they pass it on to theirs.
So after a few generations, you've got a lot of
females that don't trust men, a lot of men who

(01:56:51):
are more aggressive to other men because they want to
protect themselves from being harmed or hurt, and it carries
on healing. It is hard because we have to we're
at a place now with our conscious mind that can
overcome anything that we have going on inside of our body. Now,
you know, my guys have always said that the body

(01:57:14):
is a response to the consciousness inside of it. So
if your heart is always hurting because you don't feel loved,
because you don't love others, you're more likely to get
a heart attack. If you always have nerves about the
way that you feel around other people or your sense
of self, you're more likely to get stomach issues or
intestinal issues, and the same with your sexuality. If you're

(01:57:38):
not feeling safe there, you can develop issues with your genitals,
your bowels, all of these things. So those things happen
as a response to the emotion and the body and
thoughts help to regulate emotions, so there is a way
to heal that trauma that trauma comes in. We've seen
this happen throughout a lot of generations. My parents, well,

(01:58:04):
my mother and her whole side of the family and
went through severe abuse from their own father. And his
father was an alcoholic and abusive. He watched his own
father be shot by his father when he was away
so alcoholism. He watched his dad get murdered as a
young These things ran heavy in my family. I from

(01:58:28):
a young age was a very violent kid. I went
through my whole twenties even into the start of my
thirties being a very violent person. The way that I
had to do it was a long process of reassessing
my own self, letting my mind do the work to
help the emotion's balance, which then helps the energy inside

(01:58:50):
of us balance, which helps the consciousness balance. And that's
really the way around this. Now. The book describes several tools,
and to be honest, I don't remember most of them.
A few of them I can share one with you
if that's interesting. These tools help connect to the better healing,

(01:59:11):
but you can do it just by reassessing. I'll give
you an example. There's something called the ten set process
and that's something a tool that Trebinarda developed a long
time ago, and basically ten steps that show you how
to find out what belief systems that you have that
aren't helpful, to smoke them out, to get rid of them.

(01:59:34):
And it's a very easy process. You don't have to
use all ten steps. I use the shorthand version. But
you wear a ring right, or paint a fingernail, or
wear a necklace, something that you're going to see all day,
every day, and that reminds you to be conscious of
what your thoughts are. And then when you go through
a day and you have a very bad mental or emotion,

(01:59:57):
you know, you have a bad mental thought like oh God,
I I hate these people, I hate this life, I
hate this thing, or you have an emotion that's just
very hard for you to deal with. Stop what you're doing,
and that's what the trinket reminds you of. To stop
what you're doing and to trace your steps back of
the thought why did I say I hated this person?

(02:00:18):
Then you say, okay, I was taking a walk with
the dog. It reminded me of the dog I had
when I was a kid, and that brought me to
another place of memory with my parents. And then when
I thought about my parents, I thought about my uncle.
When I thought about my uncle, blah blah blah. You're
tracing back the steps of thoughts and where that first
thing started, the very first part, where the very first

(02:00:41):
resistance started. It's very subtle. You don't notice it, but
you do notice when it gets bad. So you trace
it back to that very first thought. And that first
thought was, you know, hey, I have a disagreement with
a family member, and I don't know why they don't
like me or love me, and so it's natural to
feel hate today. So you ask yourself that question, what

(02:01:01):
belief system do I have that makes this find whatever
I just found problem for me? Well, you believe that
you know this person hates you, and you believe that
because they're family, even to love them. And you believe
this and that, and then you can balance that out
by retracing and telling yourself the truth. You don't have

(02:01:22):
to family just because they're family. You can have boundaries
with people who are aggressive with you, and you can
help yourself create these different energies that kind of you know,
fix the problem of those beliefs, and you repeat them
nine times, building new neural pathways in the brain by
saying it. If I tell myself I'm a horrible person,

(02:01:46):
and I've said that ten billion times in my lifetime,
and then I try to say at one time, well,
I'm a good person, the neural pathways in the brain
are not going to accept that. They're like, no, We've
already proved a hundred times. You know, you've thought a
million times bad. So it's very hard for that pathway
to get to. But if I say it ten times,
then I'm starting to build that pathway up the thought.

(02:02:09):
So by repeating that truth that you find in there
ten times, it helps rebuild that And every time you
go into that situation, repeat the same truth, and the
more that you consciously think that thought, it builds the pathway.
So I'll give you this technique. I'm gonna take a
drink water real quick first.

Speaker 1 (02:02:26):
Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 3 (02:02:31):
So this technique was something that Trev taught me a
long time ago. This is to help with ancestral trauma.
This is to help with any real levels of trauma,
and it's to help deal with childhood trauma too. You
visualize yourself in a meditation and you're sitting in a chair,

(02:02:53):
So while you're closing your eyes, you're visualizing yourself also
meditating in a chair, but there's two chairs, one on
each side of you. And in the meditation, while you
see yourself there with two chairs, you would close your
eyes and think about the trust from your childhood. You
would think about who you were as a kid who

(02:03:15):
had all these traumas, the fear that you felt, the
judgment you felt, the lack of love that you felt, whatever,
whatever your childhood thing is where you had a rough time.
And then in the meditation you would open your eyes
in the chair and to the left of you, right
in front of you would be that childhood version of yourself,
who is traumatized, who's hurt. And then in that visualization,

(02:03:40):
you would hold the hand of that childhood version of
you and you would look them into the eyes of
them all the truth that you now know. It wasn't
your fault that you know your parents hit you. It's
not your fault that our parents hit us. It's not
our fault that our teachers were mean to us. These
were problems that they had. They were going through their

(02:04:02):
own things, and they took it out on you. You tell
them the things that you've realized as an adult with
much more wisdom and knowledge, and you give that child
that gift. Right. You tell them and you share with them.
And then in that visualization, you hold both of their
hands and you both close your eyes and connect the
heart energy into the arms through the arms of the

(02:04:25):
other and connect the hearts so all of the heart
energy is going through the arms, connecting to each other.
And then after you open your eyes, from there to
the right seat, you'll have the most evolved version of yourself.
Maybe you're ninety nine, maybe you've gone through life and
you're almost done with it, but this is the most

(02:04:45):
evolved version of yourself. Now, you look in version of
you and let that version tell you what you need here,
and look them in the eye and hold their hands
and do the same thing with the heart. And then
after you open your eyes, all three of you connect
hands and run the heart energy around in a circle.
Then when you close your eyes and open them back
up inside of your visualization, the chairs are empty because

(02:05:09):
those parts have come back and fully healed, fully ready
to move on and practice that every day. And since
Trepp started sharing that, I know about fifteen twenty people
who do it on a regular basis and it's worked
really well for them. So that's just one of many
of the techniques that I know for sure was in
the book. I can't remember the other ones. I only

(02:05:30):
did a couple edits.

Speaker 1 (02:05:31):
But yeah, now I want to talk about the energy
that can be produced during sexual experiences. Has our just
given you information? Have you written about what some understand
is sex magic? Are some of the manifestation outcomes that
can occur?

Speaker 3 (02:05:50):
Yes, So sex magic is the utilization of the energy
that sexuality produces inside of us to manifest things, things
that we want, things that we desire. Now, some of
that is talked about in the book, but I think

(02:06:12):
the one thing that came through that really sticks out
in my mind was the amplification of the self energy
through acts of sexuality with another person. Even in mastubratorial states,
you can still use the sexuality and the energy of
the orgasm to increase your own vibration of energy. See,

(02:06:33):
this is the thing a lot of people in spiritual community,
especially in more Eastern philosophies, are like sex is bad,
do not release your orgasm, Do not spill your seed.
If you do, your draining very important life for us,
and that's not the case. The reason why people feel
drained and that energy is because they're releasing all that

(02:06:54):
energy and they don't know how to bring it back
to themselves. So this is something art have talked about
and actually described it as the symbol of the ankh
in Egyptian culture. Was actually the symbol or this energy
was to show you how to bring back the orgasm

(02:07:15):
energy your own system and let it reverberate so you're
not losing it or you're losing way less if you
do lose them. It's very simple if you're masturbating the
energy during the time of orgasm release. For males, it
shoots directly out of their second chakra in a like
a forward way, and for females, I think it goes downwards.

(02:07:40):
I'm not one hundred percent sure, but either way, when
the orgasm's released, the second chakra is exploding outward and
that energy just goes everywhere. But when the moment you're
getting ready to orgasm, if you're by yourself, then you
would bring that energy from your second chakra up to
your heart energy and then when you have those two

(02:08:00):
energies connected from the sexual to the love. At the
moment of the release of orgasm, you would visualize it
coming out of your chest area instead of your second
chakra and creating a loop in the back and front.
And if you look at the humans standing sideways and
then loop out both sides, that's the ONK symbol. So

(02:08:23):
you're bringing back that energy consciously with intention. And when
you're doing it with two people, it's the same principle.
You're connecting your heart to their heart. You're connecting your
second chakra to your heart, their second chakra to their heart,
and at the moment of that orgasm, for either partner
to bring that energy up and to let it go

(02:08:45):
in the back of the person across from you and
the back of yourself and connect right in the center,
and it brings that energy back. But it has to
be intention and you have to be somewhat aware of
how to move your energy. The best ways that I've
ever learned, the thing that helped me channel before anything
else did it as good as the Gateway experience and

(02:09:08):
the Heimi sync all of that was my closed eye
technique did it much more for me. I think than
even that did. And basically it's just closing your eyes
when you don't need them. So when I'm sitting here
talking to you, back when I first started, I would
just talk to you and I would close my eyes
and feel the energy of our exchange. So learning how

(02:09:28):
to feel energy the next step. After you're learning to
feel your own heart or your own solar plexus, or
the cat or dog running across the room, you can
feel their specific energy. And I use that for example
because at that time I had like five dogs and
two cats, and I would know which dog it was
without knowing the difference between the footsteps, just feeling which

(02:09:52):
dog it was when they came. So when you get
to that level where you can start feeling that energy
real well, then all you have to do is intention
to push that energy in one direction or another. Move
it from maybe your heart chock or to your solar plexus,
or your solar plexus to your third eye or throat,
and just practice moving it around. And if you can
do then you can ONC. You can use the ONC

(02:10:14):
technique to redistribute it. And the thing about that loop
that goes out, when it goes out, it comes back
in and then goes back out and goes back in.
So it's like a bell that NonStop. When you strike
the bell, it just continues to vibrate, and instead of
just wiggling out in a minute and being done to
the sound, they get ready for hours and hours and hours.

(02:10:36):
So you keep that energy contained without giving it out
and just spending it. And you know, I think Alredif
mentioned that there's nothing wrong with the expending the energy
if you don't care if the energy just goes out anyway.
But a lot of the time that people think of
negative beings or energy vampire beings or something like that,

(02:11:00):
usually there are be exists to just take the wasted
energy as they would see it that humans let off.
So lunch through sexuality, releasing through anger, through fear, all
these crazy feelings that we have as humans just fly
out and we have no control over how they go out,

(02:11:21):
so we're just throwing away energy all the time. And
that's why these beings kind of hang out around humans to.

Speaker 1 (02:11:28):
That could this also attracts what we would consider negative
attachments that might perpetuate this kind of sexual deviancy In
a way.

Speaker 3 (02:11:38):
I would say, no, the only time you're going to
have beings that connect to you with that energy is
if you're practicing deviancy. And the difference between deviancy and
sexuality is if you're imposing on the free will of others.
So if you cross that threshold, then yes, there's definitely
a likelihood that these beings because they're seeing that deviancy,

(02:12:02):
that that's the most imbalance. Now. You know, there are
beings who have had sexual encounters with extra dimensional beings,
extraterrestrial beings, They've had sexual encounters with sucubis, incubus, things
like that, and these come from very deep traumas of
the human and also a lot of fear about possession

(02:12:24):
or spirit or God or a divinity that you haven't
met up to that limit to That's another reason why
it's important to find your balance of sexuality, to find
your acceptance. You know, if you're someone who likes a
very specific sexual thing that hardly anyone ever knows about,
don't beat yourself up. If you're not hurting another person,

(02:12:46):
you're not taking away their free will, doesn't matter. Just
be fine with yourself. That fear of rejection, the fear,
and it's you know, in society right now, it's also
something that. I've noticed a lot of people's say men
have really messed up sexual alitu and that's true. But
that's also because the energy between feminine and masculine energy

(02:13:09):
is really imbalanced too. So men approaching a woman for
heterosexual couple, there's an imbalance in that almost all the
time unless those two people are perfect for each other
and perfect energetically and have mutual attraction. You know, thirty
years ago, forty years ago, there would be a hey,

(02:13:31):
you're very pretty, you know you want to go on
a day. No, I've got a boyfriend, thank you. And
now it's like, what you think you can sleep with me,
stupid bastard. So the energies are way way different. But
that's a part of the rebalancing act too. Now you know,
you've lived on Earth for so long where masculine energy

(02:13:52):
was more eminent and feminine energy was so low, and
men held high levels of masculine females held high energy
of feminine. That's also a dynamic that got described in
the book, is that now the reason you see women
become more masculine and males being more feminine in those

(02:14:12):
extreme cases, it's a rebalancing act. It's men saying, hey,
I have to explore my feminine side, and women saying
I have to explore my mask. And a lot of
people think that that's just crazy and that our society's
falling apart, but it's actually just a rebalancing act.

Speaker 1 (02:14:28):
That makes a lot of sense. Now, this may take
up the entire rest of the show, but according to
your guide, Ardif, Earth and the Human Collective Cause is
experiencing a transition from third to fourth density. And I
know that there's a lot of confusion and misunderstanding and
misinformation in this community about what the transition from density

(02:14:53):
to density really means. What is your understanding of this?

Speaker 3 (02:14:58):
Yeah, see, this is something that I agree with you.
There's a lot of misunderstanding about And to be fair,
you know, ARDIV and Treb see from their perspective, so
maybe they're seeing from one level and other being I
don't know, But the way that they've shared it has
always been that density isn't like a dimension, even though

(02:15:20):
a density has a level of dimension in it, a
density describes the evolutionary process of a soul. So if
you look at linear time like we experience now, and
they always have to throw that in there because they
don't experience linear time in their dimensions. But when you
experience linear time, there is a first density, which is elemental,

(02:15:43):
which is very physical things like rocks, fire, air, all
of those elemental things, physical things that are not living,
like a wood. A wood is tree, right, and a
tree is living. But if you take that away from life,
then it's you know, whatever trees are made of carbon

(02:16:05):
probably carbon molecule is stacked on one another. So whatever
that case is, it's still an element because it's not
living from human perspective. And then you have the second density,
which is animals, plants, viruses, bacteria, and then you have
humans and we're third density, and we're transitioning into the

(02:16:26):
next level. So what the third density involves is an
expiration of self, is linear time perceived. It's learning to
see the past and the future. And you know, like
the way I described the difference earlier between an animal
and a human and the way they experience that, that's
the difference from that. But going from a human to

(02:16:50):
a fourth density, there is a higher dimension involved, and
it doesn't talk when that will happen. It doesn't matter
if you're in that dementia now or if it takes
for the whole fourth density, that part isn't really as important.
The developmental part of what fourth density is is the

(02:17:10):
most important. So where third density, we're exploring ourselves, our
sense of self, our mastery of self, our linear time,
are living through time and experiencing time elapsing in linear way.
Fourth that it becomes more fluid in time. The timelines
become secular, and it doesn't mean that you won't experience

(02:17:31):
time linearly. It means that you're going to start at
first when you're doing the transition, and you're going to
start seeing how sick time works. We start seeing cycles.
You know, me and you are close to the same age.
You know, within a couple of years. I believe we've
been around long enough to see cycles happen, and we're like, oh,

(02:17:53):
you know, these countries are doing this, this country is
doing this, they're doing a war. Yeah, we've seen this
happen for so we know what the results will be
unless the actions changed. Right, humans haven't always been good
about seeing cycles. Fourth density, the cycle and secular time
becomes a permanent theme. It becomes something that we first

(02:18:16):
understand and then we experience our life through that lens
and where we're going through self expiration and third density.
Fourth density is an experience of connections. That means the heart.
And you can actually look at all the densities and
line them up directly with the chokras and they're synonymous.

(02:18:36):
So what's the heart chokra? Do the heart chokra connects?
It's love, it's connecting to love. It's the exploration of relationships.
It's the exploration of your place and a collective. It's
the way that you connect to people, places, things, experiences, ideas, everything,
anything that deals with connections of fourth density experience. So

(02:19:01):
when they're saying traditioning from third to fourth density, what
they mean is the human nycle of self exploration is done.
We're wrapping that up and we're moving into collective exploration
and the exploration of how our individual self makes these
connections and makes these relationships. And there's a lot more

(02:19:22):
to it than that, but that's a simple enough kind
of concept to kind of get people to understand. Most
people say, hey, we're going into the next density. That
means tomorrow we'll be able to fly through the skies
and everyone will be love and light. And if you're
not of this vibrational frequency. You can't get on the ride. No. No,

(02:19:42):
we're evolving as a race of beings. We're evolving as
a planet. We're not splitting up and saying, hey, you
guys are bad, We're good, We're going up here. You
stay where you're at. It doesn't work like that. We're evolving.
And you notice that in the last few years, as
that cycle kind of wraps up and the new one
comes in, there is a lot of deaths, and these

(02:20:05):
lots of deaths that are higher than the deaths that
we experienced before that. Those are those souls saying, Okay,
I'm happy with where I was, I'm done doing life.
I don't want to go into this new cycle yet
until I've had a time to kind of, as a
soul revisit what I had to experience here in this
old cycle. And that's also why, even though the population

(02:20:30):
you know, for birthing is getting lower, the explosion of
births in the last year or two is starting to
go up, and we see that on worldwide trends. Even
in Japan there's noticing a tick up in that. And
those are those old souls that left coming back in
or souls that have been gone for a while and saying,
all right, I want to check out what this new

(02:20:52):
cycle is about. This is why we're seeing instability in
our collective. You see these wars that are ramping up
to be big, Well, we have to do that in
order to explore each other. I've not ever seen so
many people understand the dynamic of what's going on more
than I have. Now people are like, oh, these two

(02:21:13):
forces are fighting. Yeah, it's the governments. The people are
without fault. The people aren't being harmed. But before you
would say, oh, your country's against my country, I hate
all of you, and I would see that as a
kid over and over again. I mean as a young
kid to a teenager. I saw war on TV all
the time, and it was everybody's like, screw that country.

(02:21:34):
Now people are getting it, Oh, these are two gigant
entities that are government's fighting. This has got nothing to
do with us, and that that will get the change
that we need. And that's the new cycle, that's the
new energy coming in for people to perceive right on.

Speaker 1 (02:21:49):
Yeah, I'm very encouraged about what I'm seeing. People's awareness
about the unfolding of things that previously that just went
along with or had a different understanding, like you were
just saying, now for the last we have I know you.
Also we briefly touched on prest real sexuality and some
of the differences there between humans. What would be some

(02:22:13):
of the strangest sexual practices you've heard about from extraterrestrials.

Speaker 3 (02:22:20):
There were some examples given in the book, and I
don't remember them all, but there was this one race
of beings. I'm trying to remember exactly how it did. Well,
I'll go back to some of the ones I know,
like insectoid beings are very very different in the way
that they do it. They're asexual, or they can have

(02:22:41):
partners from an external kind of like what we see
with like chickens or snakes, the egg laying ones where
you have one who develops and then another one that
drops that last seed for the full development to take place.
I've seen that, but I've seen it done with two
different parts of the same being. So this being will
have have, you know, both abilities like sexual organs, and

(02:23:04):
one of them will grow within the time they need
to impregnate themselves, and then that same organ or same
part will fall off after it's done. Now that's weird
physically energetically, there are races that have sexual reproducing, where
a fully developed child will come from the male into

(02:23:25):
the female. Once it enters the female, it takes on
the life force energy, which develops it further. And then
like Treb's race, Treb is my first guy I ever met.
They have like pretty much what they call it like
a protein substance egg the best way they could describe
it for us to understand. And that egg is developed

(02:23:48):
and both the genomes of both parents are taken and
putting in there, and it's grown in a lab. So
their kid comes out and just walks around the planet.
It doesn't it doesn't go right to mom or dad.
I mean instinctually, the being knows who mom and dad is,
but doesn't really care, and the society is just like, oh, hey,
how's it going here, a new one, you know. And

(02:24:11):
just like Treb's, one of Treb's kids didn't come back
till they were like five or six earth years old
to meet them after they were Wow. Yeah, so very
very crazy. Some sexuality is not physical at all. Sometimes
beings will merge their physical bodies in an energy, like

(02:24:33):
a sexuality that's energy based, and then once they separate,
there's a new consciousness, a new physicality, a new body developed.
So sexuality is not always synonymous with reproduction, and it's
not always reproduction is not always synonymous with sexuality, but

(02:24:54):
it is a pretty well used thing in the galaxy.
Even higher dimensional beings, some of them still have direct
sexuality for reproduction.

Speaker 1 (02:25:04):
Very interesting, man, Rob, Thank you so much. This was
such fascinating information. We're definitely gonna have to get deeper
into it again in the future. Before you head out,
let the audience know where they can get the book
and find out about more about you and all your content.

Speaker 3 (02:25:21):
Yeah, for anything you want to know about me or
my content et Whisper, it's got everything et whisper dot
com and in trusted in the work. You can always
check up on the email list. That's where we announce
all the events we do, all the things that we're
doing and releasing. YouTube is where to go if you
want to watch my channeling and the channeled work I do.

(02:25:43):
I've got hundreds and hundreds of videos, thousands of hours
of free content out there. And if you want to
buy the book, it's self published through the old company
create Space, which was bought by Amazon. That's where I
had released some of my previous books. So if you
go to Amazon and type in Rob Gothier, or if

(02:26:06):
you type in Healing Sexuality with Rob Gothier, or just
the whole title, you know, a creating perspective, you'll be
able to find it there. It's on kindle and on
paperback now, and it might be on a different format later.
But it's also expanding out into other countries besides US
and Canada.

Speaker 1 (02:26:25):
Now, so excellent, Rob, Thank you so much great information.
We'll definitely be talking again soon, and until next time, everyone,
have an excellent evening. We'll talk again tomorrow. We'll see
yelled in

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}FKN Classics Double Feature! | Robert Guffey - Chameleo | Rob Gauthier - ET Sexuality