Memories of MK-ULTRA: Psychedelics, PSI Experiments, Rituals, Torture & Murder | Bill Yarborough - Forbidden Knowledge News

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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I think it's just going to get weirder and weirder
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(01:37):
The invention of artificial life, the cloning of human beings,
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Speaker 1 (02:00):
Welcome back to Forbidden Knowledge News. I'm your host Chris Matthew. Today,
my guest is Bill Yarborough. First, we're having our film
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(02:22):
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(02:44):
me Forbidden Knowledge Neews at gmail dot com. Today, I
want to welcome Bill Yarborough. He is author of Memories
of mk Ultra, which was inspired by experiences from his
early childhood where he was subjected to experiments from the
CIA mk Ultra mind control program.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Bill.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Welcome, How you doing.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Doing great?

Speaker 4 (03:06):
Thank you appreciate the invitation to be on your show.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Sir, Thank you so much for coming on today. We're
going to share your experiences as a child in the
mk ULTRA program. This is a topic I've covered many
times before with others that have also claimed to have
been involved with either mk Ultra or similar projects, and
this is an extremely multi layered and controversial topic. It

(03:32):
seems to involve not only three letter agencies, but a
virtual web of intelligence, military, corporate, and scientific interests. It
goes deep and looking at the reality that surrounds us now,
the technological age that we're immersed in, the level of

(03:54):
degraded morality, and overall direction that humanity is headed. Some
would say that the entire planet is victim to these
operations on some level or another. So there's a lot
to get to with this before we do. This is
your first time on, tell us just a little about
yourself and let the audience know how they can find

(04:15):
out more.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
Okay, Well, so my brother or sister and I were
in the mk Ultra program during the summer of nineteen
fifty eight. Actually, our memories of the program were repressed
for about thirty years, and then in our young adults

(04:39):
they began to come back in fragments and such. Now,
one of the things that was lucky for me and
them as well is by definition, some of these memories
are very strange. And so when you remember these on
your own but you don't have anybody to collaborate it with,
I think it's a lot more difficult. But I did,

(05:00):
and we began to remember things independently. For example, we
each independently remembered that we had been kept in jail
sales in a basement of this building, and so and
once we really developed techniques to test each others out.

(05:22):
Our first memory bought collapse really didn't involve in k Ultra.
Involved a sort of psychotic period my mother went through
in the late fifties that lasted a few months and
where she threatened us with a knife and things of
that nature. And that was the first memory that broke,
and when my sister and I began to compare notes,

(05:45):
we immediately went to, okay, let's fill in the memory
completely on our own and then share to see if
it's the same memory, and like, where were you standing,
where was I standing?

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Where was she? What was she doing?

Speaker 4 (06:00):
And so we were able to, you know, realize that
we had the same memory, and ultimately that memory my
mother completely admitted to some time later that totally confirmed it.
But we used that same technique as mk Ultra began
to break. I did want to talk a little bit
about why we were put in the forest. I think

(06:21):
that's important. So I think many of your viewers know
a lot about m k Ultra, but you've probably know
that the war after World War II, you know, Operation
paper Clip was created by the US government and they
interviewed the Nazi talent. Of course, you know, Vernavon Brown

(06:42):
is very the most famous member that was recruited from that.
His mother was actually my mother's god Well interesting, yeah, yeah,
she my mother grew up in Nazi Germany. Her father
was a general in the army, and she was in Dresden,

(07:03):
Germany during the firebombing downtown. So I heard lots of
war stories from her, and I think that those kind
of experiences contributed to the kind of psychotic episode she
went through in the late fifties. After she got through that,
they never came back. She was fine, but more significantly

(07:25):
because I don't know that the Vernavon Brown connection really
led us at all into nk Ultra, but the next
connection did. My father sister had married a German. My
father was in the US Army during World War Two,
and when the war was over, he wanted to stay
and visit his sister because she had four kids. She

(07:47):
had lost her husband in the war. He was one
of the first German officers to die in World War Two,
so he felt he needed to stay there. So he
joined the War Crimes branch of the US Army and
then he was stationed in Dhaka to interview the SS
officers who ran the death camps. And actually that's where
Hitler conducted a number of the mind control experiments that

(08:10):
were done in Nazi Germany, and so they did. I
don't know if you've familiar with Steven Kesner's book Poisoner
in Chief. It's an excellent book about MK ultra, and
he points out how they recruited all these individuals you know,
biochemical of course, the rocket engineers, as well as mind control,

(08:31):
and brought him to the United States. So we actually
lived in Maryland. You probably know that MK Ultra was
headquartered in at that time Camp Ditric, Maryland, later to
become Fort Ditrick. That's what they also did biological weapons research.
So we believe that he somehow reconnected with these people

(08:51):
that he was probably involved in bringing over and then
they got us into the program. They knew we these
these Nazi uh before we even made that connection, we
clearly remembered that there seemed to have been somebody with
heavy German accents and based on their behavior that we witnessed,

(09:14):
was more than capable of working at a death camp,
a very very uh brutal individual or social path with
no uh hesitation to actually kill kids. And I did
witness that on an occasion, and so uh. In Kesner's book,
he talks about five different programs, you know, not in depth,

(09:37):
but mentioned some involving kids. You know, a lot of
the publicity about MK Ultra really has dealt with the
adults and all the different things that were done to
people within the CIA and outside of the CIA, and
we you know, obviously the universities. So but they did
do electric shock. My sister was caught up in the

(10:00):
late sixties drug revolution very much so, so she used
all kinds of psychedelics in her youth. She stopped, you know,
when she became became older, but she knew what those
experiences were like. And as these memories began to come back,
she was eight at the time, older than me I
was only four, she said, these experiences are this that

(10:23):
I'm remembering when we were kids or liked what I
went through, you know, in the late sixties, the psychedelic
experiences and so forth. So we're pretty certain we were
giving those drugs isolation, you know, the jail cells, and
so it was very similar to the things you've heard
about that, not to the radical degree that doctor Herwin

(10:44):
Cameron did, you know, at the Allen Memorial Institute, but
similar things to children and so but again, as I mentioned,
the memories were repressed for thirty years before they began
to come back.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
And do you know.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
What age you were initially brought into the program and
how long you stayed there.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
We we have estimated that my sister knew that it
was the summer of nineteen fifty eight, May, June, and July.
My sister wasn't. She remembered being an outgoing, popular student,
you know, one year, and then the next year when
she went back to school after the summer, she she

(11:32):
was kind of a shadow of what she was, you know,
shy didn't talk. Of course, I was preschool, so I
didn't you know, I wasn't having schooling experience. She also
always remembered she couldn't remember that summer. It was like
a blank slate. She just woke up one day and
you know what happened over the last three months. So actually,

(11:53):
my mother took lots and lots of pictures of us
at that time, and she had this big trunk, and
where they were developed, they would put the date that
it was developed. So I knew that. Of course we
were young adults. This I was no longer at my
parents' house. But as these memories came back, I remembered, Oh,
and that trunk, she's got all these pictures with all

(12:14):
these dates on them. So I went back home and
went through the pictures from nineteen fifty eight, a lot
of pictures in January, February, March April and then nothing
for the next three months, and then once again starting
in late August, all the way through the rest of
the year, lots of pictures. So those kind of techniques
we've used to estimate that's when we think we were there,

(12:36):
we were lucky, and that we were only there for
you know, that three months period. I know others who
have been subjected to MK ultra, you know, went through
much longer experiences, so that was fortunate. We also, as
you know, they were very interested in psychedelics and and

(13:02):
one of the reasons why I've made this book a
novel is because of the fact that when we were young,
the memories were repressed, and some of our recollections are
pretty strange. So when you're given psychedelics and then you're
subjected to extreme trauma, you tend to disassociate, which of

(13:23):
course can create paranormal experiences in and of itself. And
so I decided to make it a novel because I
couldn't be certain, you know, of things, but basically much
of it, as far as the experiences we had, it's
based on that. The novel really deals with what it's

(13:44):
like to grow up and be messed up and not
know why. And so we have two timelines at the novel.
One is the kids growing up, you know, through elementary, junior, high,
college and then young adults, and then another one from
the point of view of the guy who ran the program,
so the reader knows what happens to the kids. So

(14:07):
it really gives you some ideas about the unconscious subconscious mind,
how it influences behavior and things of that nature.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
You said you were four years old whenever you first
started to recall some memories. Is that correct?

Speaker 4 (14:21):
No, I was four years old while I was in
the program, and I didn't start to remember them until
I was like thirty four.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
See what was that process like remembering? Was there anything
specific that started to trigger that.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
Sure, I was visiting my sister and she literally had
a vision.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
At that time.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
She described it as a vision from God, and it
told her that you, as young children, have repressed some
very important things that happened to you, and you need
to remember and that your life is at a certain
cross and if you remember these things, you're going to
begin to move in a new direction, implying that would
be a better direction, that we were actually headed in

(15:07):
a dark direction. And she got too terrified and she
couldn't remember, and she says, I just can't, and the
vision said, well, that's fine. If you wake up your
brother and tell him, you know, he will.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
Begin to remember.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
So she actually did, and I began to get flashbacks
immediately after she mentioned this vision. I mean, I knew
she was psychic. She had had some pretty phenomenal psychic experiences.
And I began to get flashbacks of my mother holding
a knife, you know. And that was so the next

(15:48):
morning we began to share, you know, she asked me
if I remembered anything, and then I mentioned the knife,
and then she actually right away and she says, okay,
I just had a flash of that, but let's not
fill up each other's memories, because she was familiar with

(16:08):
the false memory syndrome.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
She'd read about that in the.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
Past, and filled in and as I said, you know,
we had the same memory. My brother, we ultimately brought
hints into it, and he had the same memory, and
my mother confessed the same memory. And it was a
couple of years later though, that the MK Ultra stuff
began to merge. I think they monkeyed with my parents mind.

(16:33):
I think that could have been part of the reason
why she had.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
I was going to ask you about that if that
was an isolated incident or if she was normally somewhat abusive.

Speaker 4 (16:44):
Uh, it was. It was un isolated, but it was.
It wasn't an incident. It was a period that ran
on for several months. I mentioned that, Uh, so, yeah,
she was, she was just she was just very, very
you know, my brother later became unfortunately, you know, my

(17:05):
sister and I survived this somewhat better than my brother.
My brother was normal until he was twenty three, but
then when he was twenty three, he had a complete
psychotic breakdown and he began to say things that sounded
very strange to me. I couldn't understand it, you know.
But years later, as this stuff began to come back

(17:27):
to us, my sister and I I began to figure
out sort of what was going on with him, and
we eventually, with this therapist and you know, so forth
began to bring these memories up and it did tend
to help him, but he refused to deal with it
for years. But when he got back to daily with it,

(17:49):
then he got a good bit better. The I think
the other thing I would say that, you know why,
I think they monkeyed with us. Is is my father's
reaction when I confronted him when I you know, I
didn't know at the time that it was MK Ultra.

(18:09):
When I confronted him, we had remembered all of these things,
you know, as far as jail sales and electric shock
and psychedelics and child abuse. You know, they sexual definitely
sexual child abuse was part of it. And the you know,

(18:30):
he said, I don't know what you're talking about. That
sounds like a program your mother might have put you
in when I was in the Korean War. I said, well,
you know, I wasn't born when you were in the
Korean War.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
You were there.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
It was the summer of fifty eight. He goes, I
don't know what you're talking about, and then he began
to glance over his shoulders, and then he began to whisper,
and he had a different voice, and he began to say,
you know, those people who ran that program, and he
kept on looking over his shoulders. Nobody else was in
the house, you know. I you know, my wife knew

(19:04):
I was going to bring it up, so she made
sure everybody else was gone. He said, well, you know
those people that ran that program, they were they were
fine people, but they couldn't control the dark impulses and
they need to go back to his normals. And said,
I don't know anything, and I uh, I began to

(19:26):
think split, split. I mean, that's started what came into
my mind. And it went back and forth, and yeah,
and I told you my sister had psychic gifts. One
of them was she was, you know, in another state,
but she knew I was going to have this discussion.

(19:47):
So when we talked that for she goes. I saw it.
I saw you talking to him, and I saw you
just going into the state of shock. You know, you
just looked stunned. So what is what did he say?
So he so again, I think, you know, there could
have been other reasons why he would have demonstrated a split.

(20:12):
I mean, both my parents had difficult lives. My mother
grew up in Nazi Germany. He fought and both the
and both the Korean War and World War Two, and
to interview the Nazis running the death camps to be
there Dakau had to be very traumatic as well, so
you know, sometimes those people develop aspects of that. But

(20:33):
he also m Carey Alter was interested in creating split personalities.
Alan Dallas was particularly interested in that. You know, we
don't want American agents revealing secrets, so what can you
do to set up our agents where they won't reveal
secrets it's captured by the enemy. And they came up
with this idea by creating a secondary personality that knew

(20:57):
the mission and the primary personality did not know, and
then if captured, you know, the primary personality would have
nothing to reveal.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (21:08):
In my father's case, I would say that didn't work
very well because both personalities showed up at different times
and certainly began to demonstrate a knowledge. So so yeah,
I can't It.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Would make sense because from what I understand, they were
experimenting on members of the military, unwilling members of the public,
even people from within intelligence that were unaware of some
of the things that were going on. So it really
wouldn't surprise me if higher ranking members of the military
were also being experimented on in some reason.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
Sure.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
I mean, Frank Olson, you've heard that story. You know
he was part of it, and they you know, Sidney
got that gave him those drugs that he didn't know about,
And that's a well known documented case. We lived right
next to a military base when this went on, so

(22:09):
and I know that the intelligence agency of that military
base had a pretty big center there, and we lived
in Maryland. Maryland's not that big. So I don't think
we were kept at Fort Camp Dietrich. I think we
were kept in the surrounding area of Maryland. I believe

(22:30):
I found the place, but I can't be certain, you know.
And uh so, there's yeah, there's there's multiple aspects to this.
There's another very unique aspect to it is I think
you know, you've probably heard the story of Gordon Lawson,
you know, who took the magic mushrooms in Mexico, and

(22:54):
so the CIA, you know, got this agent and of
course Watson supposedly didn't know he was in the CIA,
James Monroe, and he went down there to get those
magic mushrooms from a ceremony and they created Philocybin. So
they had a strong interest in Sydney. Gottlib really has

(23:15):
a very good excuse me, not Sidney gottlupt. The Stephen
Kessner book about Sydney gotlip really when it comes to
this paranormal stuff. He had some interesting documents and quotes
that actually started prior to mk Ultra with Project Bluebird
and Artochoke, but then went into mk Ultra that we

(23:36):
want to find a gateway into These shamans in Mexico
say that this drug will give us a gateway into
the divine, will allow us to approach the infinite, will
allow us to communicate with entities unknown to science. Yeah,
we'll see the future. So I mean kind of stranger
things type stuff, you know, And they were clearly interested

(23:58):
in that kind of stuff. So there was a boy
that was there with us who was fourteen years old
that came from a shamanic tribe in Mexico and he
was raised by his shamanic grandmother to become a shaman.

(24:18):
So he was already fairly advanced at age fourteen and
would have had experience with mind altering plants and an accident.
If you've ever heard of How to Open Your Mind,
that book a kind of scientific book, but it actually
said in this boy came from the desert in northern Mexico,

(24:40):
and it actually said the most powerful volution on the
planet comes from there from toting them. So he to
some extent, protected us and he sort of brought us
on Shamanic journeys. I believe, you know, I can't be certain,
you know, with being given psychedelics, but he would have known.

(25:02):
He uh, we were we were kept in these jail cells.
So I think he was brought in. I think they
started conducting psychedelic experiments with him.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
Again.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
I believe that he realized what they were up to,
realized that it was no good.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
So he.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
Acted like, you know, they weren't having much of an
effect because he didn't want to know that he was
on to them, and so he began so he helped
us mitigate the damage that was going.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Could you give us an example of some of the
experiences that made you believe that he was intervening in
some way?

Speaker 4 (25:44):
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, first of all, we
began to remember that he he would When he first
showed up, he was very nervous because I think he
was very unsettled. But he would play rock and roll music,
listen to rock and own music on the radio, okay,
and then he would he had a little record player

(26:07):
that he had all the top hits that he liked,
you know, rock and roll hits, Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis,
you know, big people at that time. So he would
do what I would call trans dancing. I had begun
to remember him. I had begun to have memories of
me making these wild movements. I couldn't quite connect what

(26:28):
was causing that. And then suddenly I began to listen.
I wanted. I began to remember when I would be
on the radio listening to the Goldenone station, I would
hear certain tunes and I said, oh God, yeah, he
was with us. When I heard that, I mean, I
could just picture it. So what I did as I
bought the top ten hits from fifty four through fifty

(26:50):
eight to see if the songs were remembering were actually
out then, and they were. So I started listening to them,
and in one of them, Let's go to at the Hop,
I just broke out into this wild dance on my own. Yeah,
as an adult listening to that music. I heard him say,
put your mind in the music, and I took off

(27:12):
and it was like do I have to? I don't.
I'm not controlling this. Something else is controlling this. And
then when it was over, I had this this, this
this huge spiritual high like wow. And so you know,
and Native Indians were into trance dancing. Uh, and so

(27:34):
I think he brought us.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
They he was our guard when they realized he wasn't
panning out as a psychedelic uh subject. Uh. A lot
of them had jobs during the day. They would only
so they weren't.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
You know.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
The guy running the program, I think was a psychiatrist
and had a practice and he would so this Indian
boy would bring us to this places in the house
where we could dance to that music and he had
a portable record player and I just have very powerful
memories of that as an example. But I mean he
also I think the number one thing is that he

(28:12):
gave his love and support. Yeah, after they would do
something to me, like they stuck me in the stove once,
you know, they wanted me to believe they were going
to they were gonna cook me, and uh, I came
back and then he would comfort me in the jail set,
you know. So I think that's the most significant thing.

(28:35):
And then I mentioned these shaman attorneys, but I think
he was you know what awakening is, right, of course,
I know you're you've experienced with that yourself, and you
know I into that. I you know, when when I
started talking to my therapist about my memories of this
kid and the things that he said, and he did
uh huh. At one point my therapist said uh. And

(29:00):
he was a very good therapist because he'd been in
the army dealing with people with post traumatic stress, you know.
But he also was into mysticism, big into that. And
so he said to me, how many Eastern mystic books
have you read? And I said no. I said, I
don't even know who Buddha is. And he said, well,

(29:22):
you're bringing up the deepest, some of the deepest mystic principles.
And I said yeah, because I remember the Indian boy.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
So he.

Speaker 4 (29:32):
Was very good to help me. He said, you know,
I think this kid was significantly awakened. That's the only
way I can explain what your thoughts.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Was so interesting. Could you tell us a little bit
about some of the memories that really stick out for you,
what started coming through first, and what's really most powerful
for you.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
Well, the most damaging was the sexual abuse. We were trafficked,
if you want to use that word. And I could
remember these experiences in great detail of what these men
and also a woman and as well did to me.

(30:20):
So those were some of the first ones. The electric
shock and we didn't even know it was electric shock
at first. It was just we were terrified of this
chair they would have to sit.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
In and.

Speaker 4 (30:37):
I and then they would do these games like they
wanted me to be a good student.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
I should say that.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
A bit of this stuff I think was done by
these Nazis they had working there that was not necessarily
done with the knowledge of the CIA, and that they
had objectives that were not really connected to what the
CIA wanted, because they seemed to be obsessed in wanting
me to become president and free Eastern Europe and Eastern Germany,

(31:10):
East Germany from Soviet domination.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Interesting.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Wow, And so I mean, if you think about those guys,
that would have been something they were interested in. I
know full well that I was interested in politics from
a very young age. That's my novels, you know, got
all of these characteristics. I followed it as a young
kid very closely, as early as the nineteen sixty election

(31:36):
with Kennedy.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
I remember it.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
You know very well that I was very eager to
know how it turned out, and all of them since then.
So and when these memories, and I always just thought
I was born that way, I mean, you know, because
it started at a very young age. But then when
I began to remember this program, I became very dubious
about my interest in that arena. I just said, okay,

(32:00):
I'm not gonna I'm not going to pursue that. I
can't trust, you know, because I was not, you know,
all that well put together and some I mean I
was functional, but I was messed up. I knew that
I would never get married. I could, I could date,
but I was incapable of a long term relationship because

(32:20):
I ah, and you know, I never.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Thought i'd have it.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Of course, I did a lot of I mean, you know,
I spent thirty years in healing, of all kinds of healing,
you know, uh uh. And you know I did get married,
you know, and did have kids, and a lot of
things that were very hard, you know, things that would
make me very uneasy. That all went away as they
began to heal. But the they would put me but

(32:48):
to become that they wanted me to be a good student.
So they would put me in this classroom, mock classroom,
and then had this woman as the mock teacher, and
you know it was you know, draw squares on this
piece of and then if you don't make enough. You know,
this guy here, he'll bring you to the alligator outside.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Oh, that four year old is going to believe that.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
So they would always you know, there was always a
sense that if you don't do what you're told, you're
going to face a horrible death. And that had an
enormous impact on me. And and uh and then you know,
they like with sports, they would play this this Nazi

(33:31):
guy who worked at the death camps would throw baseballs
at us, but you know he would scream and trying
to kill you if you didn't catch it. And uh,
so I would just panic whenever I got involved with
sports in junior high school, I just my mind would
just freeze up. One time I accidentally caught the ball

(33:53):
in a football game. I mean I usually was on
the bench because the coach knew I wasn't very good,
but he decided, you know, got to put him in
some time. And I catch the ball and run to
the wrong go line. So the so there's just so
many aspects.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Of my life.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
I couldn't pronounce words like the word scissor. I could
never say it. And then when I remembered the incidents.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
With the scissor, it's very interesting that you said they
were somewhat grooming you to possibly be in a very
powerful position, even president of the United States. From what
I understand, these programs are multi layered, multi purposed, but
one of the purposes is to program and groom powerful

(34:35):
people to be in powerful positions, basically creating psychopaths.

Speaker 4 (34:42):
I think you're right on because I was because I
was exposed to the Indian boy. I never became the
extreme social path that they may have won because he
was a very my therapist said he was a contravening
positive infl that had a very significant impact on the

(35:03):
way you to develop. But I did develop some of
those tendencies of being the social path I mean in
other words, where I, uh, I wanted to get ahead
at any cost, you know, Uh, so I could be
ruthless if I wanted to. And uh And you know,
I always had empathy for people that I was exposed to,

(35:26):
but not so much empathy for people that I was
not exposed to. And again those tendencies have gone away,
and I was into destruction.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
You know.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
I would always build toy cities to bomb, you know,
love nuclear war movies. You know, it was it was,
it was it was, and I knew. I was always worried.
Oh if I actually become president, I'm not sure I
trust myself. So that was always even before that, I
remember the stuff I just said, Okay, I've got some

(35:57):
kind of dark tendencies and uh so, yeah, I think
you're wrong.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Earlier you mentioned that you even witnessed murdering of children.
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (36:11):
That is awful.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:12):
I again, I don't know if this was This was
done by the psychopathic Nazi guy that I think he
used to work with the death camps, and I don't
believe it was with approval.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Was it because he was disobeying or was it part
of an experiment gone wrong? Do you know what the
circumstances were?

Speaker 4 (36:36):
Ah? Yeah, I know what the circumstances were in one case,
and I don't like to give.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
Too much story away, don't give too much. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:44):
Yeah, but in one case, you know, someone tried to escape,
you know, get away and was going to call the police.
So he met a very bad debt and uh and
then in another case it was similar escape and met
a very bad death.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
And I was going to say, do you have any
memories of what would be considered anything ritualistic, a cult,
satanic things of that nature.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (37:22):
In fact, when we first began to remember, what we
eventually found out was likely MK Ultra. I mean, you know,
I can't say with one hundred percent certainly they destroyed
all the records, you know, but we called it the
cult because we could remember. Some of the first memories
were actually a cult like or satanic like rituals where

(37:48):
I would walk they went to this chapel that was
nearby the school, and they would have me walk to
the altar where I would be laid down and they
would pour stuff on me, you know. And I remember
seeing somebody disked up, you dressed up in kind of
a devilish like outfit, you know. So they were they

(38:13):
were into that. The other aspect of it is I
think there was a some cults.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
That were not.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
You know, there's a significant influence from Germany, and I
think there were some people from Germany that got us,
you know, that were into the occult, that had connections
with the CIA, and I think they would show up

(38:42):
sometimes and do these sermons. I call one of them
the Baron in my novel. But I have a feeling
that you had the guy that was running the program
and the people that were very much part of the
some of them part of of what the CIA was into,
and then other ones that had their own agenda. I mean,

(39:04):
you know, Allan Dallas and Stephen Kenzer quotes Allen dellas saying,
if you don't want the president and the Congress to know,
don't tell me.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
You know.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
Of course he knew a hell of a lot, as
it turns out when you read Kisner's book. But I
think these guys felt like they had a free reign
to pursue their own agendas. And as you know, Nazi
Germany was deep into the occult, you know, the SS
was deep into their cult. I'm pretty certain these were

(39:35):
former SS officers, so they would not be surprising. Actually,
my therapist had studied that when he was he had
spent time after World War Two as an army therapist
and in Germany, and he he said, you know, the
way they tried to connect violence with sex, and the

(39:59):
way the cult stuff was all these all taelltale science.
It's THESS practice. Sorry, but again I can't be sure
about any of this, you know, But what was interesting though,
we remember these jail sales. We remembered we thought psychedelics,

(40:20):
the electric shock, the sex abuse, well, we had no context.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
And then.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
The President Clinton created the President's Commission on Radiation Experiments
and I think nineteen ninety five somewhere around there, and
one of the mk ultra programs. Basically what they did
was they were looking at what the army was doing
with you know, outside of for example, Las Vegas, you know,
setting off these nuclear devices that the public is exposed

(40:53):
to and so uh and then they exposed you know army,
you know, soldiers and what's to radiation. Well, they found
out that mk ultra was sprinkling radiation on children cereal
and giving it to children. So they felt that they
wanted to bring in some of these what were now adults,
but they had memories of that happening, and they found

(41:17):
the records, you know, I believe you know that that
went on to testify, and they did testify, but they said,
can we talk about all the other stuff mk ultra
did to us? And that's when the jail cells and
the psychedelics and the electric shock and the child sex abuse.

(41:40):
They and so my brother in law heard I think
it was Coast to Coast or other program where these
you know, people were explaining the things that happened to them,
and it was identical to what happened to us. So
he called me up and he says, you need to
look into mk Ultra. Everything you've been saying, that's apparently
what they were doing. So that's kind of how, you know,

(42:01):
we really then began to connect it with that. And
then if I don't know, I do have a site
on my website where John Rupperport did an extensive article
on those kids, on those testimonies, you know, and he
brought up all kinds of examples of things including I
think the programming of.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
People to become political leaders. Yeah, and so it.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
And you know, we did have paranormal I don't know,
they could have been created by the drug.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
I was going to ask you about the paranormal experiences,
some of the most profound that you had, and your
thoughts about what it could really be.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
So the second that's a very good question.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
After we remember my mother, we actually had another profounder memory,
profound memory before mk Ultra and my sister had never
forgotten in her whole life. In the summer of nineteen
fifty nine, we want my mother to Germany, to visit
to visit my grandparents, and she said something. The family

(43:17):
had a castle, and my grandfather was a baron, my
grandmother baroness. They they had family castles, and she said
something happened at the family castle one of them, and
she said, see if you can remember. So I was
trying to think of at that time, we were remembering
our mother's bizarre behavior. It seemed like she was better

(43:37):
than but I was wondering, well, maybe she did something
weird there, And I said, and then suddenly I had
a memory of a alien like creature staring at us
behind a bush, and I thought, okay, that's why out there.

(43:58):
So when I talked to her next, she said, so,
did you remember anything? And I said, I did, but
it's really weird. I don't know that I even want
to bring it up. And she goes bring it up.
I told her and she shrieked that was her memory.
So we used the exact same technique.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
What did you do? Where were you standing? Where was
I standing? And yeah, I was.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
She went around a bush ahead of us. We were
walking back up the mountain trail to the castle from
the car. She wanted to get ahead of us, and
because we were poky and along, and when I came
around this curve, I saw her and then I saw
that thing staring at her, and then I screamed, what's that?

(44:46):
And then she looked at it and she screamed, and
it seemed to be interdimensional. Maybe it was wearing a
reflective suit, you know. So I'm gonnack again. I know
there's so many ways to explain I kind of experience
like that, but I felt that, yeah, you could see

(45:10):
through it. And then you know, once we remember that,
we remember that these creatures showed up at our home
that we lived in just before or just after we
went into the MKL.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Do you know if that happened around the same time
that you were going through the programs.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
The second one did, Yeah, I would have happened immediately before,
immediately after, and the other one happened the next summer.
And then I have memories. I've worked more on retrieving
my memories and my sister, and so I had more

(45:45):
memories of him at the program as well. Similar creatures,
the same looking in a creature, same looking creature. I mean,
I do have a vague memory of once, but I'm
not sure about it. A reptilian type, and most of
them looked like, as I said at the time, the
cover of Whitley Strieber's Communion. You know, at that time

(46:08):
that was a big book. But I do know that
they did screen memories. You know that the CIA, you know,
didn't want people to remember. And you know, I think
one of your guests recently talked about kids dressing up
like aliens, so that you know, the idea is that
if people remember the stuff, you know, I do think

(46:28):
that people that are subjected to extreme trauma and disassociate
have an enhanced ability to see realities beyond our own.
You know, the same thing seemed to be shocked that
we could see.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
There's a very interesting layer seemingly connected to m K
Ultra people that claim to have been involved in the
secret space program. This is a very strange and multi
layered phenomenon where these people claim to from an early

(47:04):
age been subjected to similar programs and torture and horrible
things like you were. But eventually they would join this
secret military group, this secret space program, where they would
claim to have missions off planet and be sent to
different dimensions and actually interact with extraterrestrials. There's many different

(47:29):
schools of thought about what could really be happening here.
Many think that they were given the screen memories to
make them believe that they had these experiences, so that
they could then perpetuate an alien narrative. Others believe that
maybe they were having some sort of interdimensional experiences. But

(47:50):
it is very strange, but it seems to be somewhat
connected to these MK ultra programs. Have you heard anything
about these?

Speaker 4 (47:59):
We have heard about what you're just discussing. I think
they I think they occurred a little bit later, Yeah,
in the in the timeline. You know, MK ultra was
shut down in sixty four by Lyndon Johnson, but you
know they continued m K search. You know, they were
obsessed with the psychic Stiff and that went on to
the nineties and when they admitted it on Nightline, ABC

(48:21):
Nightline and uh the But uh so I've heard of that,
you know. I I do know that my brother seemed
to have been groomed for some sort of military career.
You know, that seemed to be the focus with him.
He always wanted to from a young age. You know,
he was always interested in the you know, the big

(48:42):
tough guy heroes. You know, and and loved that and
wanted to join the military right away. Uh and and
then my sister was I think, really very involved in
the psychedelic I was going to ask.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
You what different program were your siblings subjected to.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
Yeah, I think that my brother was was it appears
to be military.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (49:10):
From a young age, he always wanted to fight. He
wanted to beat like my cups got group. I was
older than him, but he wanted to challenge all the
other cup Scouts in my He wanted to beat them up,
you know. And he would just go wild and then
he would break down into bad as much. You know,
he would get so frenzied about fighting, he would start

(49:30):
gasping for breath and my mother would have to bring
him inside and put on the steam machine to get
him calm down. So there seemed to have been a
really kind of phonetic aspect to this. So having none
been subjected to those kinds of experiments, Yeah, I wasn't

(49:50):
there with them. I'm just surmising I think something like
that was done. And then my sister, you know, super
her left brain, super creative, you know, she and again
she got swept up, you know, in the sixties counterculture
movement and uh used lots of you know, use psychedelics.

(50:14):
I mean, of course, it's ironic that that whole thing happened.
I mean, I know, you you know about you know,
you know, Timothy Leary seeing everything I am. I owe
to the foresight of the CIA scientist and you know
that CIA basically Stephen Kesner, and then I know you've
heard of John Marx's search for the Manchurian candidate. They

(50:37):
both concluded that, you know, mk ultu, the CIA created
the drug revolution and the counterculture movement by sending all
these drugs to all these universities. And so it's kind
of eerie that that's you know. But but my sister
did get swept up in that, so she was she
realized that it was not a good direction and pulled

(50:57):
out of it, you know, when she was by the
time she was in her.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Her early adulthood.

Speaker 4 (51:02):
But those are the three things that I think different
ways they used us. Mine was this political you know, obsession.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
And what was your life like before you started to
retrieve the memories? And how did you go about your
healing journey?

Speaker 4 (51:25):
So you know, I think I was something of a loner,
you know, and actually studying being a student was quite
as there was a lot of trauma around going to school.
My palms would always sweat, my mind would sometimes freeze up.
So I actually initially was very erratic. I would be

(51:45):
the worst kid in the class, second to the worst
kid in the class, and then all of a sudden
be one of the top three kids in the class.
I went from being in special education to accelerated classes
because somehow when I could calm myself down master the

(52:05):
fear that was always associated with schools, because it was
very much a school type place where we went to
in this MK Ultra program. I mean it had a
lot of radical differences being kept in jail sales, but
it had that feeling and it you know, so I

(52:27):
eventually became a good student and state a good student.
But at work, you know, giving presentations like the idea
of doing a podcast like this, see that terrified those
things terrified me to a degree that I would lose
my voice when I spoke, and so so I was

(52:48):
kind of a weird duck. So that's part of what
the book shows, how all three of them, how it
affected them, how they were different from quote normal kids.
We always felt I connected with the title Stranger in
a Strange Land, the book you know about the guy
uh Martian So. So the healing journey initially was of course,

(53:15):
you know, once these memories began to come back, and
then my brother had a psychotic breakdown and he had
to have a therapist. Eventually I decided I needed a
therapist as well.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
You know, I made that decision before, just before the
MK ultra stuff started to break and uh and uh
so talk therapy, you know, was very beneficial. It resulted

(53:47):
in progress. The vast majority of our memories we remembered
on our own, but sometimes the talk therapy would trigger it.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Did anything like that.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
Absolutely some thirtified hypnotists uh e F t uh partiction
uh practitioner and uh greaking master. So yeah, when I
moved out to California and then I got a therapist there,
I was exposed to hypnotherapy and E M. D R.

(54:18):
And those were very powerful techniques to help me. I
had most of the memories already, but she could bring
me back to these experiences.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
And then.

Speaker 4 (54:31):
Uh sort of a kirk uh work through it, release it,
you know, cathartic. It's the word I was searching for
cathartic and uh and that really then began to make
me feel you know, a lot more comfortable. You know,
you know, I actually rather than you know, not wanting
to socialize, I wanted to socialize.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
It was it was very effective.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
Right now, the thing that I'm my biggest challenge is
my therapist that I and said, you know, the last
place trauma resides is the body. You know, You've done
a lot to get it removed from your mind, to
get it removed from your emotions. But I was having
a number of different symptoms that indicated I had trap

(55:17):
memories and the body. So I'm working with a somatic
therapist now and you know, trying to release that, you know,
some of the symptoms. And I've had a number of
different physical symptoms that have completely gone away, you know,
as I made progress, but they haven't all gone away.

(55:39):
So that's it, you know, it's when you have this
kind of multi layered damage. And actually, you know, the
I mean the alien experience in some ways was some
of the most terrifying and I use that word not
knowing what they are, you know, unidentified anominous phenomenon.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
I think it's the term do you still have any
strange experiences similar to that, you know.

Speaker 4 (56:05):
I really after I after that time period. No other
than one experience is when I was a young adult
with my mother and my brother. We were driving through
West Texas coming back and visiting my sister who lived
up in Washington State, and and my mother said, look

(56:31):
out for that gigantic wolf. We were going seventy miles
an hour and this wolf was keeping pace with us,
and it was bigger than normal wolf.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
It was.

Speaker 4 (56:43):
Somewhere between a dog, I mean somewhere almost the size
of a cow. And it literally jumped in the hood
of our car. Whoa got ahead of us and jumped
in the hood of their car. Its face stared us
right through the windshield, and then it flew off crazy.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
And I thought, what world is this? And uh?

Speaker 4 (57:05):
And I asked my mother, who had, you know, no
interest in the paranormals, but she described the exact same thing.
My brother described the exact same thing. So when we
stopped at a hotel, we didn't want to stop, I mean,
we were it was terrifying.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (57:21):
Not a dent was in the car, no blood, nothing,
So I knew that was some sort of bizarre And
I know that quote alien experiences. They sometimes plant these
memories of seeing some kind of animal, you know. You know,
I've read that that's what I understand if that, But
I don't have a memory of an alien experience there,
and it's a shamanic creature, you know, it's probably what

(57:46):
it felt most like. It had that feeling to it.
And so I've talked to a few other people I had,
you know, and I've was kind of stunned when I
started sharing this, yeah, about two years ago. I actually

(58:06):
just kind of kept it a secret for years. Other
than telling my therapist. I several of the people I
talked to had very similar experiences.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
Earlier in my introduction, I had mentioned how, in my perspective,
the experiments that were occurring in the fifties, sixties, and
seventies with the MK Ultra programs and the offshoots, we're
most likely preparation for what we're experiencing now. It seems
that they may be implementing the experimentation through technology and

(58:42):
drugs and a mass mind control operation. You look at
the overall state of society where we are in our
reliance on technology, blind trust we have with our institutions
at times, just in the past few years, we've started
to get revelations of how corrupt our systems and government

(59:05):
and global leaders are. It wouldn't be surprising if all
the experimentation that was done was to achieve global power
and control over the masses. What do you think about that?

Speaker 4 (59:19):
Well, that's the only possible one thing I'll point out.
Have you Are you familiar with Naomi Klein's book The
Shock Doctorate?

Speaker 2 (59:26):
No?

Speaker 4 (59:27):
Okay, so she actually she's a very respected Canadian journalist,
so she researched mk Ultra. Actually, they made a movie
about the book came out I think it was two
thousand and seven and got an Academy Award the documentary
either nomination, and maybe even want it. But she basically

(59:49):
says that, you know, she talks about the things that
we've been talking about, on the things that were done
to people, and then she talks about how they created
this quote a lack of a better word, MK Ultra manual,
you know, that the CI had, and that actually it's
been used. So the cases she is is that in

(01:00:10):
South America, when the CIA overthrew the governments in Argentina
and Chile, they use the mk Ultra Manual to control
the populations so they could put in a military dictatorship.
And the shock doctrine means you put people into a
state of shock so they can't resist.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Well, I have to think of the major psychological operations
that have become obvious over the years, the assassination of
JFK nine to eleven COVID. To me, those seem like
shock operations to elicit emotional reactions to in order to
control the masses, which seems like pretty much the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
Could be.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
I mean, it's interesting that her book gets into in
both China and Russia, when they wanted to move to
a free market system, they actually got advice from the
CIA and use some of those techniques. And I remember
I met a guy from China when they were introducing
the free market economy. He lived there, but I ran

(01:01:18):
into him and he was a guest at our house,
and he says, you know, it's just crazy that they've
just stripped away everything overnight. The entire social net is gone,
and everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
Is just walking around stunned.

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
So we're going along with this now. As it turned out,
from a pure economic standpoint, you know, their economy flourished,
you know, with the free market economy compared to what
went on under Miles, you know, very very poor economic situation.
But so you know, they they said that. So when

(01:01:59):
we were in Chile, my wife and I were in Chile,
the tour company we were with has what they call
a controversial discussion, and this the guy that came talk
to us talked about the CIA and how they overthrew
the government put military dictatorship, and then he and he
found out that his grandfather was involved with that and

(01:02:20):
that he was using those quote CIA techniques on political
opponents and.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
On the whole population.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
So it's and so yeah, it's very interesting. It's you know,
I mean, one thing I am. My father was a
history professor. I was obsessed with going into to becoming presidents.
So I read lots of books about history. History does

(01:02:53):
repeat itself, and we have been in periods like this
before where it's just so everything that's happening. I mean, actually,
I would say my book has got the backdrop of
the late nineteen sixties and early seventies and you know,
one thousand, five hundred campus bombings. They have to shut

(01:03:16):
down the universities one year because they lose control most
of them, most of the big cities have huge areas
that are burnt to the ground because of enormous unrest.
Every night on the TV, it was just violence and
violence and violence. I remember sitting in high school at

(01:03:37):
lunch and we would say, so is this country going
to be here when we graduate? So, I mean it
was because I was so attuned to this stuff because
of my political interests.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
You know, it was it rivals what we're going through now.
I mean, it was like in the Vietnam War.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
You know, we didn't have the huge political divide, but
we had an enormous generational divide, very divisive.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
You go back to the American.

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
Civil War and read a Bible that was like pre
or actually German, I mean the pre Nazi era. I mean,
I mean, excuse me, the World War two Great depression
of World War two. If you look at the Gallipo
taken November of nineteen forty one, eighty five percent of

(01:04:30):
the American public wanted Hitler to take over all of Europe.
Pearl Harbor changed all of that within a month. But yeah,
but you know, so I just want to be cautious
with reaching conclusions, knowing that we have been through some
really difficult periods almost cyclical. A book called The Fourth

(01:04:50):
Turning points out how almost every ninety years we find
ourselves in what he calls the chaos period. He wrote,
he wrote this book in ninety seven, and he said,
in the twenty twenties, who will have an enormous political division,
enormous divide between the wealthy and the poor, enormous anti
immigration feeling, and you know, the government people losing complete

(01:05:19):
confidence and trust. He said, that's what's going to happen
in the twenty twenties. And he says the reason is
because about every ninety years it comes around. However, you
have a point, you know, because of the CIA and
all the things that they've done. And you know, you
know a lot of people say, you know, first, you
know you had you know, you had COVID, what's next Aliens?
You heard people say that, you know, and you know,

(01:05:43):
there could well be I mean, I would not be shocked.
Throughout all the history, the elite would love to have
control of the masses.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Right, Well, it's most likely cyclical and corruption. There's probably
a little bit of both. If you look at the
level of corruption that has been revealed just in the
past five years that our government is willing to participate in.
It brings a whole new light and awareness of the

(01:06:18):
possibilities of how dark that control system can get. You
start looking at things like your story, and it leads
to a web of corruption that is very disheartening, and
you have to separate yourself from that and know that
there are good people. That's not a complete top down,

(01:06:42):
evil power structure that's controlling the planet, but they have
very bad actors that are in positions of power that
are pulling strings in negative directions. But like you said,
there's a sickle coal aspect to it as well.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Yeah, I mean the boy.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
Who uh a lot about all the different religions. You
would often talk about the Zen philosophy that this is
a dualistic world. The Zens symbol is there's light and darkness,
but an equal amount of both. That the reality the
language we've got. You can't have good without bad, you

(01:07:20):
can't have tall without short, you can't have beautiful without ugly.
That there's reality. You know, it's sort of almost guaranteeing
that there's going to be a dualistic aspect to it. Uh.
And you know, perhaps you know there's lessons to be

(01:07:40):
learned from that that are advancing us at a soul level.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
I would have to agree.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
When some people bring that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:46):
Up, I say, you know, when they train pilots and
they use simulations to fly their planes, I said, so,
are they always going to have blissful weather or do
they become good pilots because they get some really bad situations.
I don't know, but I think that you know, there's

(01:08:13):
but it is very disheartening and it is very frustrating,
but there's a lot of good. So you have to
look at that as well. I mean, these healing techniques
we're witnessing. So you know, in my book, the position
I take in my book is that I'm not going

(01:08:34):
to tell people what's going on. I'm going to share
experiences or memories of them calt. But then people need
to reach serve for example, and that whole alien thing.
I have the therapist give the protagonist all kinds of
theories of what that could be. And as you know,
there's many and you know it's in the government seems

(01:08:57):
to be playing sometimes both sides of the point. That's
what's so confused.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
It is, we're in very interesting times. The last few minutes.
Is there anything that we didn't get to that you'd
like to share with the audience or any final thoughts.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
Yeah, well, I mean I would think that, you know,
one of the things that's learned about the government is that,
you know, the Eisenhower and the Kennedy administration are not
the administrations you would have expected for this kind of
stuff to go on. But you know, they did have
an opportunity to gain it. You know, it was suggested
that they get some sort of oversight over the the CIA,

(01:09:37):
but the CI resisted, so they just gave up, you know,
I mean, eventually they go after it all came out,
they got plenty of it. And one thing I'll mention
about the CIA is that you know, you've got bad
actors there, but you've got good people there too, like
everything else. And I've had several CIA people read my book,
and they've actually been pretty the support of the They

(01:10:00):
were familiar with that that dark past, dark chapter and
I and I mean one guy who knew some of
those people at the time, he didn't know what they
were doing, but he says once he learned what they
were doing, he wasn't surprised. I think if I want
put forward to methods, is that you know, healing is possible,

(01:10:23):
you know, despite all the bad things that can happen.
I do know that I've had some advantages of other
people don't have. But these techniques like hypnotherapy e f T,
which is based are you familiar with EFT the tapping?
You know, they've really helped me overcome a lot of obstacles,

(01:10:45):
like when I would feel uneasy.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
At work about having to do some I would do that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:49):
So you don't have to be in an MK ultra
program to get benefit from a lot of these techniques.
You A lot of people remember their past, but they
may not have you know, released it, so it's still
driving behavior. And I think though, So you know, the
book is designed to hopefully and it's a series, and

(01:11:13):
so there's going to be another one coming up that's
going to deal more with the Indian Boy and there's
some really advanced concepts that will be coming through that
you know on the awakening side. So uh, I know,
I believe I've heard you say you meditate. You know,
those kinds of things can be very very helpful walking

(01:11:37):
in nature to deal with these, you know, because because
because I have a group where we do e f
T together, which enhances its power. And actually my wife
and I want to put out a book about that
that when you do e f T in a group,
it's kind of like group prayer. And but what so
many people want to tap on is the times, I
mean their own life, but you know, living in these

(01:11:59):
difficult times.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
So right, well, Bill, thank you so much. Is essential
information before you go. Let the audience know how they
can pick up your book and find out more about you.

Speaker 4 (01:12:13):
Yeah, it's available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and
many other online outlets. You know, it's so you know,
it's not in bookstores at this point, but it's very
available online. You can go to my website Billyarboro dot com,
y A R B O R O U g H

(01:12:34):
dot com and it's more information. I mean, you can
buy the book from there, but you can definitely. Yeah,
it's got to learn more about MK Ultra and the
books that I recommend h and some articles on healing
as well and different techniques.

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
I did a column on healing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Excellent, Bill, thank you so much. Definitely love to talk again.
There's much more we can get to, especially if you've
got some more books coming out. And until next time, everyone,
have an excellent evening. We will talk again tomorrow. If
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Memories of MK-ULTRA: Psychedelics, PSI Experiments, Rituals, Torture & Murder | Bill Yarborough

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Memories of MK-ULTRA: Psychedelics, PSI Experiments, Rituals, Torture & Murder | Bill Yarborough