Online Death Cult - Demonic Possession Algorithms - Order of 9 Angles | Steven Snider - Forbidden Knowledge News

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (01:16):
I think it's just going to get weirder and weirder
and weirder, and finally it's going to be so weird
that people are going to have to talk about how
weird it is. Eventually people are going to say, what
the hell is going on. It's not enough to say
it's nuts. You have to explain why it's so nuts.

(01:37):
The invention of artificial life, the cloning of human beings,
possible contact with extraterrestrials, the systems which are in place
to keep the world saying are in utterly inadequate to
the forces that have been unleashed.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Welcome back to Forbidden Knowledge News. I'm your host, Chris Matthew.
Today my guest is Stephen Snyder. Be sure to check
out my films. Doors of Perception is available on Amazon Prime.
A Cult Louisiana featuring Stephen Snyder is available on two
b Roku, Apple, and many more streaming platforms. We're booking

(02:21):
guests for October. If you have suggestions or you'd like
to be a guest, email me Forbidden Knowledge neews at
gmail dot com. Today, I want to welcome back to
the show Stephen Snyder. He is an author and longtime
curator of devis up website, which is dedicated to parapolitics
and high weirdness in all their many forms. With Frank

(02:42):
Zero of Zero Night, he co hosts The Farm, a
weekly podcast dedicated to parapolitics and synchronisticism. Steven, welcome back.
How you doing not too bad, sir, It's great to
have you back on it's been a little while. Today
we're going to take an extremely deep dive into the
possible connections between the Enunciation shooter and an online death

(03:07):
cult that may be inducing demonic possession. The implications are
incredible and may even involve very high level individuals and groups.
So much to get to. But before we do, it's
been a while, remind the audience a little bit about
yourself and let them know how they can find out

(03:28):
more about you.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Uh well. I am the longtime curator of the Vised blog,
which I didn't really do much with anymore, but you
can still find wealth of material, probably several books worth there.
I'm also the host of the Farm podcast, which typically
has a new episode out every Monday and is available

(03:50):
on all the major platforms, Apple, Spotify, and so forth. Also,
I do the Farm Patreon with the additional episodes. State
of the Union addresses the count a lot of current
events and so forth. And I'm also the author of
multiple books. The most recent one was Weird Tales, which
dealt with a lot of recent events that have unfolded

(04:13):
in twenty twenty five, starting with the Zizion, the whole
affair around that, and also a lot of the geopolitical
implications of the kind of current shakeup that's ongoing amongst
the ruling elites, which seems to have worked its way out.
I suppose you basically now have Peter TiO and a

(04:35):
lot of these other people from the PayPal mafia on
the driver's seats. But that is I suppose only tangently
related to the whole thing with the school shooters, though
maybe not quite as separate as it we would initially seem. So.
The most recent event we had was the Annunciation Catholic

(04:56):
Church shooting, which happened on August twenty seven, And one
of the interesting things about this is that it happened
near Minneapolis, Minnesota. I believe the specific area was Wynden,
if I recall correctly. But for those of you listening
to this, you probably still recall this because it's relatively

(05:17):
fresh in everybody's mind. But you had had the state
representative that was assassinated in Minneapolis in June fourteenth, twenty
twenty five, Melissa Horkman, who was also killed along with
her husband at their home at the time, and then
earlier in the day there had been an attempted assassination
of State Senator John Hoffman as well, along with his wife,

(05:41):
and in both cases the shooter was Vance Bolter, who
left a very interesting, let's just say, orgy of evidence
following the shootings. Specifically, I'm thinking of the Nobe Kings
flyers that were left in his car. This was sort
of unfolding at the time, and you had the No

(06:03):
Kings protest breaking out, you had the one in Utah
over the same weekend that had a shooting a curve
one of the rallies in Salt Lake City, So there
were a lot of interesting developments unfolding during that whole
time frame. So Bolter was trying to make it seem
like he was affiliated with No Kings and with some

(06:24):
kind of radical leftist even though he had only really
targeted Democrats. And the only evidence for this, I believe
was a bipartisan commission the Tim Waltz, the governor had
appointed him to several years ago. There's no doubt though,
that Bolter was involved with a very militant Christian network

(06:46):
centered around dominionism, specifically he had ties to the Kansas
City Profits and the New Apostolic Reformation movement. Bizarrely, one
of his mentors, I believe the person he accredited with
his conversion had murdered in South Africa back in the
nineteen or excuse me, Zimbabwe back in the late nineteen eighties.

(07:10):
So there were just a lot of very strange things
about Balter. So that shooting occurred on June fourteenth, so
about two or so months. A little over two months
later you have the whole incident at the Catholic Church
with Robin Westman. There were approximately one hundred and sixteen

(07:34):
rounds fired. My understanding is like what happened is the
there was a school wide mass that had been called
at about eight fifteen. Robin Westman had barricaded the exits
to the church building and at about eight thirty she
had opened fired at the students in there. About twenty

(07:57):
were wounded, with two being killed. They were eight and
ten years old. I believe I've mentioned it, but there
were roughly one hundred and sixteen rounds fired. I believe
one of the guns had jammed on Westman, who had
ultimately committed suicide after the initial volley of bullets. I
believe the shooting lasted approximately about two minutes. One thing

(08:22):
I will point out about this, and not to diminish
the tragedy, but Westman seems to have been an awful
shot one hundred and sixteen rounds at targets in a
confined space like that and only killing two. Again, I mean,
I'm thankful that she only killed two. Don't misunderstand me,

(08:45):
but let's just say like somebody who had been through
special operations training or had been trained by an actual
operator would probably kill a lot more people in a
confined space like that with one hundred sixteen rounds fired.
So there was at least that that. Westman seems to

(09:05):
have not been an especially good shot. So there's already
been a tremendous amount of speculation about Westman their motives
for all of this. You've seen the whole sort of
gauntlet being rolled out there. Of course, predictively, you've seen

(09:27):
a lot of people try to talk about psychotropic drugs,
and of musingly enough, apparently Robert Kennedy Junior has vowed
to open an investigation into that probably should indicate how
serious one of this was. Westman apparently had gone through
a breakup shortly before the shooting, was living at some

(09:50):
sort of unspecified person's house. But again, I mean, you
know how much romantic things would have involved with this
as debatable. The New York Post proposed somehow Westman working
in pot shop up to two weeks before the shooting
was a factor. I couldn't actually bring my working what
did you say that article? But I'm I'll just throw

(10:11):
it out there. She was working in The Newer Post
proposed that Westman worked hot shop okay, okay, pot shop,
cannabis shop, headshop up to two weeks before the shooting
was a factor. Like I said, I I couldn't bring
myself to read that one. So yeah, but it's it's
been proposed, like thanks. So the big one that's getting

(10:33):
a lot of the sound bites right now was Westman
being transgender. Apparently Westman had changed their name around twenty nineteen,
if I remember correctly, But as recently as I had
looked this up, and it was a few days ago,
I didn't get a chance to check this before we
started recording, But most recently when I looked at this,

(10:55):
Westman had not started to medically transition yet. So there
seems to be some question about that, and I could
be mistaken. Maybe she did. I just at the time though,
when I was doing research on this, there was a
question of whether or not they had actually begun the
process of physically transitioning or not. For me, what was

(11:19):
really intriguing about it were some of the allegations that
Possession had been involved in the shooting. And of course,
I mean there was sort of the low hanging roots
around this. Westman had decided to shoot up a Catholic
school with school children in it, and there was also

(11:43):
the bizarre drawing that Westman had done of herself, essentially
depicting herself staring in a mirror with a rifle slung
over her shoulder and this sort of demonic figure staring
back at her, which was really quite peculiar. But just
looking beyond that, if you go, for instance, and look

(12:07):
at the video that she had posted on YouTube, I
believe it was the evening before the shooting was to occur,
but it was It was really quite disturbing on so
many levels. But there definitely seems to be just something
very very off about the person the way that they're

(12:27):
talking about everything in this video, and it sort of
reminds me, honestly, in conversations that I've had with mentally
ill people in DC, for instance, who I honestly had
to wonder in those cases if they were maybe there
was a little something up with them as well. But
the point being this, the whole behavior and thinking about

(12:50):
Westman is just very very peculiar, and the video is
just extremely unsettling on so many levels.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Let's talk a little bit about the other things that
were brought up in conspiratorial circles, like the dad being
involved with the CIA.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
I mean, I know he went to Wisconsin University of
Wisconsin Madison, which does have a lot of very strange
connections to it, but beyond that, I wasn't really seeing
like anything. Again, I haven't looked at that for a
couple of days, but I can't recall anything that had
directly jumped out to me that he would have been

(13:32):
involved specifically in the CIA. I feel like, I mean,
when stuff like this happens, you know, people are so
obsessed with like trying to draw some sort of like
direct links to like an intelligence service, and I just
I feel like people aren't really getting that, Like it's
you know, it's moved beyond that. I mean the days
of like the sort of classic laudio set up where

(13:54):
you had like case officers and operators that were managing
assets in the field and you know, I mean mk
ultra ARTI show of type techniques that were done to
them to maybe make them a little bit more vigorous
in pursuing their ends. I mean, you know, it's not
to say that this kind of stuff doesn't happen now,
but with the way that technology has advanced, I mean,

(14:18):
the intelligence services really really do not need to directly
try to manage these people the way that they did
years ago. And I mean, for me looking into this,
that was what I really gravitated towards. Specifically was the
cult that Westman seems to have become involved with online,

(14:41):
in which I mean a lot of people don't seem
to have really talked a lot about, but that is
the I guess, for lack for lack of a better term,
it's referred to as Saints' culture. Again, that's not my phrase,
this is what some academics have come up with, so
roughly speaking, it kind of started to develop around twenty

(15:04):
fifteen after Dylan Roof's shooting spree and it was really
pushed by an online group that was known as the
Bowl Patrol, and they were so named because of Roofe's
distinct bowl cut haircut, and it led to just an
absolute reverence for him to the point that he was

(15:26):
essentially turned into a saint. So you had first a
podcast that was started called the Bowl Podcast by an
individual using the pseudonym Vic Mackie, which was the Oh gosh,
that was the name of the cop and the Shield
if I remember correctly, the corrupt one. He was later
outed in twenty twenty, but I can't remember the guy's

(15:46):
name now off the top of my head. But anyway,
under the pseudonym Vic Mackie, this podcast started going dedicated
to a lot of the reference around Dylan roof It
spread to a lot of disc and telegram groups and
so forth, and gradually you started seeing more people that

(16:06):
were brought into the pantheon of Saints. I think one
of the first ones was Robert Bower's after group, that
is to say, who allegedly killed eleven people inside the
Tree of Life Synagogue and Pittsburgh. I think this would
have been twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen. But the thing
about this that was interesting is that Mackie claimed the

(16:29):
Bowers had followed him on GAB and that the two
had interacted in direct messages and so forth. Though I
want to emphasize I don't know that it has ever
been confirmed, but nonetheless he did claim that he had
had contacts with Bowers before the shooting. So Bowers goes
into the pantheon, and you've got some more people that

(16:49):
are brought into it. One of them is Britain Turnt,
the christ Church, New Zealand shooter who killed fifty one
people to mosque in March twenty nineteen. And again, if
you walk Westman's videos, there are a ton of references
to Tron. You see the number fifty one written on
several of his weapons and so forth. So he was

(17:09):
definitely a fan of what he did at christ Church.
So after that, the bul Patrol added John Ernest, who
killed one person at a synagogue in San Diego County
October twenty nineteen. And then there was Patrick Crusius, I believe,
who killed twenty two people inside in Alpasso in walmart

(17:29):
in February twenty twenty. So it's interesting that you've got
a lot of these spree killers at this point in time.
These were mostly affiliated with rather openly bar right causes.
In a lot of cases, such as the christ Church shooter,
they're trying to kill Muslims and so forth. But one

(17:49):
thing that I do find interesting about a lot of
the deaths that are linked to the Saints' culture is
that they do occur in a lot of places of worship.
You obviously had with the Annunciation shooting a Catholic church.
I just talked about the christ Church on which was
at a mosque. There have been several synagogues that had
been target as well. In the case of what was

(18:11):
his name, wave Michael Page, the Wisconsin shooter, oh, I
think it was twenty twelve, he actually shot up a
seat temple in Wisconsin, so he was also put in
the pantheon. But it's very interesting that so many of
these shootings did occur at places of worship, and that
a lot of cases they did target children as well.

(18:35):
So this is another reason why I think the bull
patrol and the whole Saints culture was a very strong
influence on Westman. And I'll get to some more concrete
links here in the second. But after Mackie was outed
around twenty twenty, the Bolt Patrol started kind of going
into decline, but the Saints culture had really started to

(18:57):
proliferate on a lot of telegram channel and specifically they
were the ones that were part of the so called
Terragram collective, and that's a group of content creators dedicated
to perpetuating accelerationist violence. This was managed through a combination
of images and manuals, which the Saints culture was a

(19:18):
crucial component of in terms of making people idolize a
lot of these murderers and so forth. So a lot
of these killer Saints, I mean basically they're set up
is like role models to be worshiped and emulated by
the people that were a part of these circles. In
each individual triggered by the Saints had the possibility of
achieving sainthood fro themselves following the killing. So it's kind

(19:41):
of curious how they did that in the sense that
it almost becomes a sort of self replicating of death cult,
if you will. So it's really starting to take off
around this time. And some more background on Terragram again,
this is a network that's also had links to groups

(20:02):
like the seven sixty four to the order of nine
angles and so forth. So there's a lot of very
militant accelerationists that are tied up with the whole tarre
Gramn Milleu. So anyway, also on Taragram, like the whole
criteria for a saint started to expand, and eventually, by
I believe her, in the end of twenty twenty, they

(20:23):
had a list of approximately fifty of these saints. So
you got some predictable people that were brought into Andrew Bravic,
for instance, was brought into the list, along with unibomber
Ted Gazinski, cult leader Jim Jones, Oklahoma City bomber, Timothy McVay,
Martin Luther King, Assatas, and James are Ray. Sovereign citizen

(20:43):
terrorist Gordon call Fred W. Cohen was on it, who's
an interesting one. He was the Valentine Day shooter that
had been linked to the son of Sam Coult. Braveck,
of course, was plastered all over some of Westman's weapons.
Big influenced clearly, was also a shout out to Ted
Ka on one of the weapons as well, the ambiguous

(21:07):
Ted Gazinski that everybody absolutely loves in these groups. So
the whole concept of the sainthood really started to crystallize
the following year in twenty twenty one, and that was also,
I believe, when there was a whole tele telegram channel
there was launch dedicated to them. And one of the
strangest things that came out of this with these so

(21:29):
called Saints cards, which were almost like these digital baseball
cards that were being spread around. And you don't mind,
I'm just going to quote here from an article the
Lineage of Violence, Saints Culture, and militant Accelerationism by Jonathan Lewis,
Joshua Balley, and Grandma Macklin, because the whole thing with
these Saints cards is just really bizarre, and I thought

(21:52):
they did a great way of encompassing it, so it
goes quote. These channels published monthly calendars celebrating the dates
of bar right attacks and marked other milestones, including the arrests, deaths,
and even birthdays of perpetrators. Propagandas also produced backsheet graphics
that broke down the details of each attack and easily

(22:13):
readable paragraphs alongside the death toll in the number of wounded,
attack method and status of each killer, alongside a montage
of their photos, pictures of their weapons, and crime scenes.
The graphics, which resemble collectible trading cards they just sit
are known as Saints cards. The highly networked nature of
the telegram facility Saints commemoration across Telegram as Saint cards

(22:35):
are forwarded throughout the network on the anniversary of attacks.
Each card includes a reading section that directs users to manifestos, articles,
or documentaries so followers can educate themselves about each attacker
and their crimes. The reappearance of links to additional crime
scene photos or websites like murder Pedia highlights how telegram

(22:56):
graphs and macabre fascination with violence and death broadcasting a
rolling curriculum. The calendar style promotion of Saints further ritualizes
the glorification, which aims to inspire further attacks, with a
steady stream of examples of saints with high scores to
be beaten. In addition, some means of channels have encouraged

(23:17):
members to celebrate the anniversary of attacks by editing, sharing
new visual propaganda. Gloring five the attacks illustrating interaction between
important dates and the preparatory media culture of telegram, as
highlighted by Winkler et cetera. All in the databased analysis
of extremist groups for gets. Symbolically significant dates can strengthen

(23:37):
the collective identity of groups and provide important cues for
audience members to reinforce poliefs and model their behaviors on
the Saints' counter Mars date. It's important for telegram identity
formation inspires continued content creation and promotion of future violence.
So you basically have this whole pantheon developed. You've got
like these glorified baseball card celebrating of these catal Catholic saints.

(24:02):
They I don't know, that would be something really interesting
to look into. There were some other indications, but yes,
it would be really really interesting to know if he
had any of these Saints cards.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Right, but he was involved with these online groups.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Well, on one of his rifles he had bullpilled written
on its. I've got the screencap for that. So I
don't know what else he would necessarily be referring to
when he's got the names of all of the other
Saints right spread across his weapons. I mean, that's like
kind of the thing about this is I mean it's
almost like he's ritualizing his weapons with like siduals and

(24:48):
ruins or something like that, like the Norse would have
put on their swords or something for these attacks. And
it's all with these Saints names so crazy, So I
mean this, it is really some serious stuff that's been
put up. So all right. So the first killer who
was actually directly linked to Saints culture that we know

(25:11):
for sure was Jaya Crazek I believe, who was a
Slovakian extreme ritist. So in twenty twenty two killed two
people and injured a third one outside in lgbtwo LGBTQ
plus bar and Brat Sevlafia I believe. In October twelfth,
twenty twenty two, Cricheck actually directly thank a Terogram channel

(25:34):
and kind for it and hailed the Saints and so forth.
Finally you had in twenty twenty four, turkey'sh teenager Arti Kay,
who also stabbed five people and live streamed it on
Terogram and also was hoping to be brought into the Saints,
but they denied him because he wasn't white. However, there
was an expansion of further expansion of Saints culture, and

(25:58):
that happened when it started to or great with the
true crime community, which I find to be fascinating. If
you've ever seen that old show from the nineties millennium,
it deals a lot with actually demonic possession. There's like
this one scene where a group of demons are sitting
around having coffee and they're like discussing the different ways
that people can like damn themselves, and one person brings

(26:20):
up true crime and they all kind of like laugh
knowingly at that. So, yeah, true crime. That's a lot
of interesting stuff comes out of that. So you already
had like a lot of this veneration in true crime especially,
I mean for a lot of like the School Shooters
and so forth, but one Saints Coach for God and

(26:41):
this you started having end of lands that John Holmes,
the James Holmes, the Columbine Shooters, Charles Whittman, and Robert
Cremo the Third were all sort of brought into the pantheon.
And crem O definitely would have had a big influence
on Westman. And I say that because the heavy use
of the Cross of Endlessness that Westman had on her weapons.

(27:06):
The Cross of Endlessness is actually a relatively new symbol,
but it was appropriated by Cremo when he made just
this bizarre video flashing the Cross of Endlessness before the
shooting spree that he personally engaged in. So it seems
like because of Cremo, the Cross of Endlessness I mean,

(27:28):
has almost become a sort of charged sidual if you will,
within these circles. So again, it's really really interesting that
Westman had all of this stuff scrawled over his weapons.
Another thing too, sort of like returning to that strange
picture that he had drawn of herself staring at the

(27:51):
at the mirror with the demon staring back at her.

Speaker 4 (27:55):
See.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
I mean that obviously kind of brings to mind scrying initially,
but it had actually made me think somewhat of the
process of reality shifting, which really became popular among a
lot of zoomers, especially during the lockdowns and so forth.
And Westman would have definitely been in the same age
frame for that. But within like reality shifting, they had

(28:17):
this whole thing called like the mirror method, which became
a popular technique for shifting reality. So you basically stand
in the dark room with a mirror and some other
light source between you. Normally it would be like a
candle or something, stare at the mirror and image it,
you know, and imagine yourself in another reality and essentially
would keep staring until hallucinations start to reflect back. It's

(28:39):
kind of like an induced form of hypnosis, if you will.
So this is kind of like what makes me wonder
with like Westman, I mean, he's in this situation where
he's being told to closely identify with all of these
saints and so forth, does she eventually try to atually

(29:00):
open herself up to possession? From that would be I
think one way you could potentially infer the drawings of
the mirror and perhaps what actually stared back at her
she did attempt something like this.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
That's so interesting. I had a guest recently that's been
looking into the possibility of an epidemic of younger people
that are involved with black magic are some sort of
occult rituals because of groups that they're involved with online

(29:35):
and things that they've seen online, which seems to be
related to this.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
Well, I don't, I mean, it's not specifically black magic,
I would say. I mean, rather, what happens with a
lot of these like kind of subcultures like reality shifting
and stuff, is it's like they're introduced to a lot
of these techniques that are rooted in magic, but it's
not like understood as such, and a lot of times,

(30:03):
I mean they even try to like frame some of
this stuff around, like psychological terminology and things like that,
but it kind of goes back that a lot of
these techniques have been masked and so forth. So, like
the basic process of how like Renaissance magicians would have

(30:24):
understood possession would be very similar to how we would
think of memes, essentially manifesting, if you will. So, Giordano
Bruno had advocated that you use the whole process of fantasy,
which would be spelled pha and tasy. So in order

(30:47):
to do this, for the magician to take a hold
of the audience, first you need the actual audience to
be true believers. That's an important thing. Belief is crucial
to the whole process. The magician and his audience need
to have some inclination to believe what the magician is doing.
So next the magician would craft a fantasy or a
phantasm excuse me, which would be an image which would

(31:10):
then enter into the target's fantasesia, which would be the imagination. Okay, again,
this is essentially the same way that like a meme
would work when you get it into somebody's imagination by
bypassing their conscious mind and into their subconscious and there
it passes into a full blown fantasy within their psyche.

(31:31):
And this is what Bruno dubbed to be the chain
of chains. You get the right image in there that
triggers the right associations in somebody's mind and can have
profound effects to them. So over the years, this sort
of process was tied in with the whole art of
theogy and so forth, which has to do with the

(31:52):
notion of drawing down or as sending your consciousness to
the hepne spheres, or drawing down a planetary consciousness, gods,
things like that into either yourself or possession or objects.
I mean, you kind of have the whole notion of
like a talking statues in Egypt, for instance. That would
be sort of a branch of theogy. But essentially it

(32:12):
was sort of combined with Bruno's notion of like images.
He got that from the art of memory, and then
he combined it with concepts of theorgy, and it rent
to this notion that certain images, signals, symbols, things like
that could essentially trigger a kind of collective unconscious and
the person who is viewing them like something other can

(32:33):
enter into their imagination and take hold if you will.
So these techniques eventually spread to the arts. Started with symbolism.
The original symbolist movement that grew up in France in
the late nineteenth century pretty much came entirely out of

(32:54):
the Russia Crusian circles. There the capitalistic order of the
rose Cross. The big guy behind the body was Josephine Paladin.
Paladin had a real specific purpose as far as art went.
He wanted to destroy realism and art, so he started
promoting a lot of these avant garde movements like the symbolists,

(33:18):
and the whole purpose was essentially to create a sort
of art that would address somebody subconscious largely bypassing their
conscious mind, and influence them in that fashion. And symbolism
was basically the basis for surrealism and for dataism for
a lot of the big avant garde movements that grew
up in the early twentieth century, and the symbolists and

(33:41):
the surrealists developed a lot of really elaborate techniques for
manipulating audiences, and it wasn't just applied to painting and
things like that. They started to apply a lot of
this stuff to plays, to a lot of things like that.
And they also sort of hit on like an early
concept of memes. So they really understood the you know,

(34:04):
the importance of repetition, how you could make words almost
incantational through that process, the use of certain colors to
trigger associations, sounds, things like that. So all of this
stuff became codified as sort of artistic techniques by the surrealists,
and eventually a lot of the great directors, for instance,

(34:27):
adopted them. And if you're really doubting, like what I'm
saying that these techniques could really ravage somebody's you know, subconscious,
you need to look no further than the whole cult
that has grown up around Stanley Kubrick to see just
how effective these techniques are. Stanley Kubrick was the greatest

(34:50):
director in the history of cinema as far as feature
length films is concerned. He was a complete master of
the medium, and that is because he understood all of
these techniques implicitly. A lot of the stuff in cubric
movies that should theoretically make them unwatchable was taken directly

(35:14):
from symbolists and surrealist techniques. So one of the things
I would point to would be the atrocious characters in
Cubric's movies. There's no attempt at realism for the characters
in his films, their marionettes, their caricatures, and that was
completely a technique of the simplests. The characters aren't supposed

(35:35):
to be fully realized. There's supposed to be something that
the audience can project their own concerns onto. The deliberate
pacing of Hubert's movies, that's something else that was taking symbolism.
It's done to break the audience's conception of time as
the film is unfolding. Also, just the repeated or the
use of repetition that Cubric was so fond of. I mean,

(35:58):
you can really see that heavily used and wide shut.
For example, Tom Cruise just constantly repeats lines that somebody
else had just said to him throughout all of this.
You know, all these techniques individually aren't like a big deal,
but when you combined all of them together, it really
really warps somebody's perceptions when they're watching a Cubert film

(36:21):
in terms of the time that's going on. Different associations
that can colt come out of watching one and I
mean when he's really at his best with like The Shining,
I mean, you can just see this, you know, the
Shining is almost like a reflective surface. You can see
almost anything your subconscious brings into that film reflected back

(36:43):
to you. I mean one time, like I went in
watching it thinking that it was like a metaphor for
the murder of Frank Loyd Writ's mistress Italiesen in nineteen fourteen,
and sure enough I was seeing constant allusions to this
every scene in The Shining. But you can do the
same thing for the genocide of indigenous people, for child abuse,
for Kubrick founding the Space Program. I mean, you can

(37:04):
pretty much apply almost any interpretation.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
A couple of Bud's just made a movie. It's about
it being about MK Ultra.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I mean, it's it can
be basically about anything. I mean, some of his movies
were more specific. But that's where I think The shiningess
just such an amazing piece of art in and of
itself because it has this uncanny ability of reflecting the
viewer subconscious back to them. So Kubrick could basically build
a cult using these techniques and probably not even intentionally

(37:38):
as far as and again, I mean, if you don't
think that this is a cult, just look at the
proliferation of YouTube videos of everything online analyzing just the
most minute details of Stanley Kubrick's films. So this is
what Kubrick's movies have done to a whole generation of people.
So imagine if you're taking these techniques and you're weaponizing

(38:01):
them with the specific intention of creating a cult of
inducing possession and mental collapse in people, Because in my estimation,
that is very much possible if somebody is a total
mastery of their arts the way a guy like kubric
would be.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
You earlier, you were talking about how mind control programs,
these assassin creation experimentation, they aren't as hands on as
they used to be. That people can now be basically
remotely triggered innocence, possibly by the combination of these drugs,

(38:43):
certain influences online. Would you say that's pretty accurate, Well, I'd.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
Say it's more of the influences online. I mean, you know, again,
I don't totally discount as something like psychotropic drugs could
factor in. But again, when you consider how many people
in the unit As States are on psychotropic thugs in
relation to those that becomes shooters. I mean, I guess
it becomes a little bit more problematic. But like I mean,
getting into like sort of what I see happening with

(39:11):
sort of the manifestation of Glaudio in like the twenty
first century, I think you would have to look at
something like the order of nine angles. So there's been
a lot of dispute whether the nine to A was
a part of Gladigo from back in the day. That
sort of factors around the figure of David Mayat, who,

(39:34):
depending upon like I mean, who you read, was either
the founder or the guy who codified the ideology whatever.
But he was involved with Combat eighteen starting in the
nineteen seventies, which was a militant paramilitary group in the UK,
and I believe that it's spread to other parts of
Europe as well. But there's been a lot of speculation

(39:56):
over the years the Combat eighteen was a part of
the UK's audio network, and again that would be fairly
consistent with what has come out about Glaudio. In Italy
and some of the other countries, there have been serious investigations,
namely that they often had right wing groups paramilitaries that

(40:16):
were being used by intelligence services and special operations forces
for a variety of activities, often at times involving terrorism,
to sort of fulfill the so called strategy of tension,
if you will. So Maya had those potential connections, and
then later you've got the Temple of Blood guys Sutter.

(40:39):
I can't remember his first name now at the top
of my head, but there's been a pretty conclusive amount
of evidence that's come out that this guy, for instance,
was an FBI in format and it's been active in
the community since I guess it least around the early
knots or something like that. So when you sort of
step back and look at some of the broader ructure

(41:00):
of the nine a you can see some of these connections.
But the brilliance of the Order of nine Angles is
that it sort of exists more like a spiritual order.
And what I mean by that is how the original
Rasiakrucian fervor sort of played out, because there wasn't an

(41:21):
actual Rashakrusian group when the manifestos appeared in the early
seventeenth century. Of course, later there were all these attempts
to create actual rash Acrusion orders. I just mentioned one
before the capitalistic order, the Rose Cross and a lot
of these brought all of this, you know, kind of
Masonic grade. You know, they had physical lodges and all

(41:43):
this other stuff, But that really missed the point. Being
a Rashakrusian is a lot like being like a Discordian
or orient right. It's it's a way of life. It's
how you present yourself, how you go about things. It's
adopting a certainity and trying to live your life according
to those principles and so forth. I mean, this is why,

(42:05):
like you know, Jacques Valet, as Christopher Knowles has told me,
has proclaimed himself a Rasha Krusian. You know, you don't
go out and join a lodge or something. You just
got to live like a Rasha Krusian. So that was
the sort of the whole purpose of the Rashakrusian manifestos. Originally,
they wanted to create a spiritual order of people who
were living according to Russia Krusian principles. They didn't want

(42:28):
a bunch of like old white guys just getting together
with like masks and stuff and sitting around and trying
to go up with grades and this other shit. And
that was essentially the whole view that the nine A
was taking in terms of being a spiritual order. So
you put out these rituals online. And this is another
parallel to the order of nine angles has with Russia Crucianism.

(42:50):
Big part of why Rushia Krusianism was successful and spread
so much is because of the invention of the printing
press very cheap now to manufacture the manifest they could
be widely spread nine as in the same boat. They
were right there at the onset of the internet when
they started to take off in the late eighties early nineties,
they were able to get a lot of this literature

(43:10):
online and it is spread all over the place, and
it has metamorphosized, it's evolved. You see it turning up
and a lot of sectors you wouldn't expect it. I mean,
one of the things I was really intrigued by when
I was looking into the Zizians, for example, was that
zizz was actually using some nine A terminology specifically references

(43:35):
to a casualty and things like that. A casual So
that's a big thing in the nine A with a
whole annection of causality and a casualty and the different
sort of worlds with the nexions and all that other stuff,
so you can see how it'll just turn up in
groups like that that surely you would not think would

(43:56):
be directly receptive to something like order of nine angles.
But that's kind of the brilliance of the nine A
nine A A lot of the stuff that they're coming
up with, it's very sophisticated, you know, give the devil
his due. It's easy to see why this stuff is
very seductive to intelligent people. This is a lot more

(44:19):
cutting edge, frankly than just the same tired you know,
Oto Crawley, Kenneth Grant stuff that's still being put around
put out there. This I mean, I think a lot
along with like a lot of the stuff that the
cybernetic culture research units put out in the late nineties,
early not it's what's really been fueling a lot of

(44:39):
the digital occult developments over the last two or three
decades or so. Now still some influence from chaos magic
and so forth, but a lot of that stuff is
really declining, for like the O nine A and CCRU
and stuff like that. But when you look at like
how this has worked, well, you've almost created this sort

(45:02):
of mind virus with the O nine A. That's proliferating
a lot of these occult doctrines online that are very
easily accessible to people to where they're able. And this
is kind of another thing too, I'll point out with
the O nine A, like you don't have to do
group work to be in the nine A. You can
actually In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I believe the

(45:23):
whole purpose is for you to initiate yourself into the
nine A. Some of the rituals do you require others,
But to be in the nine A, you just got
to do the rituals and live the light, you know
what I'm saying. Like there's not going to be some
sort of ceremony with like other members and they you know,
they give you like a shovel or something like that.
It's like, you know, they don't do any of this shit.

(45:46):
So this is kind of like the brilliance of this,
Like you just get somebody exposed to this material which
does advocate acceleration is violence. It's like you don't have
to have a case officer go out and groom them
or something like that. They'll do this shit.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
For you by just doing these occult techniques and stuff
like that. You know, you need somebody maybe running a
telegram group kind of gently nudging people in this way
or that.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
But all this stuff it's already online. You know, the
kids can already find this stuff. They're not aware of
where it's coming from. It's very seductive and frankly, I mean,
I do think the possession is real. As I've sort
of talked about before, there's really been a formula that's
been known since Bruno Renaissance magic, probably even before that,

(46:37):
going back to the Middle Ages and a lot of
the innovations to the art of memories that the mendicants
came up with. So this is something that in a
lot of academic circles would have been known. So sort
of the question becomes, well, would the security services in
the West have not looked into such a technique when

(46:59):
they were looking into a lot of stuff with Artist
Show and MK Ultra And there's certainly a considerable amount
of evidence that magic was investigating. So if hypothetically you
could weaponize magic and specifically something like possession and were
to ask me what form would this take, I think

(47:22):
that it would take exactly the form that you're seeing
with the nine A. It's manifested in a sense of
just a sort of spiritual war or something that exists online,
something that anybody can be drawn into without a lot
of effort, where they can access all of the materials
that they need, from processes of self possession to manuals

(47:43):
for assembling firearms, tactics for how to take out a school.
I mean, it's all become almost one and stop shopping,
and you've cut out, you know, a lot of the middlemen,
a lot of the case officers, a lot of the
actual people that you needed on the ground. I mean
it's absolutely Macabellian.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Now did you say that there may be some kind
of connection with what is unfolding with the technocracy Peter
Teel Pallanteer and implementation of AI.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
Well, I mean that's where you know. I mean a
lot of this stuff gets very interesting. I mean when
you go back and look at the Zizians, I mean,
this is an example of one of these online cults
that's become touched by BO nine A, and they're coming
out of this whole rationalist the kind of rationalist movement,

(48:37):
that kind of milieu that was set up in the
Bay Area. And again, I mean just so much of
that has been built up by Peter Teel. I mean,
one of the more notorious bodies that sort of came
up was Leverage Research, a group that had fund that
had received funding from TILE and this is like a group.

(49:00):
It actually also released cryptocurrency too, which was bizarre. But
essentially it was oh gosh, I know, there was some
type of therapy specifically that they had for it that
it was described as perpetually. Let me see if I
can get the name of this year. Okay, they did

(49:20):
the whole process. Okay, connection theory, That's what it was.
Connection theory. Okay, So Leverage was set up to pursue
connection theory, which was sort of based on coherence theory
and core transformation and all this other kind of stuff.
But it seems a lot like large group conversion therapy,
the sort of stuff that like st and live spring
specialized in. And then they had also the whole concept

(49:42):
of debugging, which was also really big in the rationalist community.
And basically, you go through the whole issues that are
essentially stopping your development, giving you instilling you with powerlessness.
So you would have self debugging, and then you would
have group debugging sessions, which really took on a very
as like process to it. But eventually, as Leverage I

(50:04):
went along longer it, it just became really, really weird.
And they had these whole notions of objects which were autonomous,
and this is there from their material. By the way,
they were quote unquote autonomous psychological bits that could be
accidentally or deliberately left in another person's mind, so left

(50:25):
unaccounted for, they could effect and even control that person,
altering their perception of reality. And wouldn't you know it
is time on. These objects eventually began to become associated
with demons. And this was not the only instance where
I saw the whole notion of demons cropping up in

(50:48):
the rationalist community. I mean, there was basically a whole
reifia of commentary on how they developed these models of
like subprocess implantation and stuff with which bore to them
a lot of similarities to demonic possession and so forth.
So again this is you know, this is the Bay Area.

(51:09):
These are a lot of people that are affiliated with
Marie the Machine Intelligence Research Institute. Some of them have
been software engineers for Google and so forth. Leverage Research
was getting funding from Peter Teel Miriy has gotten funding
from Tel also Jeffrey Epstein as well, which is also interesting.
But you're kind of seeing like a group like this

(51:30):
where they're developing these whole concepts of objects, which essentially
is just another, you know, version on Bruno's chain of chains.
It's another model of how to induce possession in somebody
that's really been known since the Renaissance, and you're seeing
this being done by this slick tech company here. So

(51:53):
you know, the Zizians were not directly involved with leverage,
but they did know peopeople who are on the periphery
of leverage. They seem to have fallen into the same
sort of ideology. And yeah, in this whole milieu, they
also encountered the order of nine angles. I mean, I
don't know that there's necessarily a concrete connection that's come

(52:16):
out just yet, but on the flip side of the coin,
when you just consider the possibility of what you could
be accomplished with something like the ideology of an order
of nine angles and something like weaponized AI, I mean,
I think realistically you would have to think that something
had been pursued with that, And I mean it gets
even weirder when you look into some of the Ukrainian

(52:39):
manifestations of the Nine A. I mean, in that case,
you do seem to have some very specific connections to
the FBI as well. So yeah, I mean I think
that what we're seeing here is just a really massive
proliferation of the weaponization of magic that is currently unfolding

(53:00):
on line.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
So how widespread do you use, I mean, you can't
prove it this actually is. As far as infiltrating institutions
things of that nature.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Uh well, I mean I think the institutions at the
upper levels are probably the ones that are like pushing this.
I mean, I would say at this point, it's more
like lower level people that are being having a lot
of the stuff fled to them, who are being unaware
of what the niques are. But as far as it's spread,
I mean I would have to say, I think that
it's spread quite heavily. Again, you know, we have the

(53:34):
official numbers of the Order of Nine Angles, but I mean,
how many different manifestations of the Temple Blood are out there?
How many individual practitioners are out there that we have
no way of really accounting for because they're not active
in telegram groups or stuff like that. And then on
top of that, I mean, it's not like the nine
to A is the only game in the only game
in town. You know, with the Saints' culture, it seems

(53:56):
like you've seen yet another death cult that's being created
and spread online. I could think of like say the
Blue Whale Challenge that supposedly came out of Russia. I mean,
this was sort of like a proto or I couldn't
since say proto I kind of maybe postmodern alternate reality
game in which essentially kids were roped into it and

(54:18):
groomed into committing suicide and then filming it. You know,
they made the movie We're All Going to the World's
Fair I believe partly based on that. But you know,
this stuff is just spread like everywhere, and I mean
so many different manifestations. It's like, you know, you're talking
to me earlier about black magic among kids. I mean,
to some extent, I think that that's maybe true. But

(54:39):
it's not like there's some sort of like coven or
something that the youth is like all, you know, being
initiated into or something like that. It's just that some
forces are deliberately putting this stuff into a lot of
these telegram groups discord groups that are targeting fringe communities,

(55:00):
vulnerable communities, people that are already probably feeling strong sense
of alienation and so forth, and I mean it's really
pushing them over the EDGs. I mean, this is just
very very dark stuff. And I mean I think that
we're only really scratching the surface with how you know,
it's just how dark this can really get.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
You think this is organized in a hierarchical fashion, where
there are orders being sent down from higher levels and
that branch out to these different levels of this organization.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
Within the nine A.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
No.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
I mean, I just think that it's you know, it's
essentially it's a technology that's now loose on the Internet.
And if somebody like Sutter wants to come along and
use this technology to create a cold out of it,
which you can, I mean obviously it's very good at that,
then he can pick it up and use it to
rope in people. So in that sense, I think that
it's more something that you know, it has this sort

(56:02):
of utilitarian purpose that various people can use it to
create different sects as need be, to manage different ends.
But I don't know that there's like a coherent hierarchy
behind it. It's just more like where will this be useful?
You know, how can we appropriate it for this group
or that group? That's so interesting?

Speaker 1 (56:20):
It seems to have this parasitic nature, almost like a
algorithm that is taking over these groups in a sense.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
Yeah, well, I mean it kind of made me. Are
you familiar with the novel snow Crash by Neil Stevenson, Well,
not to give anyways. I mean this is kind of
a spoiler here, but it's sort of relevant to this.
But it's like, so it was written I think at
the like late now, maybe it was the early nineties.
It was sort of like at the onset of the

(56:51):
digital age. But it essentially revolves around this premise of
the version of Sumerian language being discovered and it's released
online and everybody who's exposed to the language essentially has
their brains required. It triggers like different parts of their
physical brains that hadn't been used before. And in a

(57:13):
certain sense, I mean that's how I almost see something
like the order of nine angles functioning. Now. I mean
it's spreading pretty much literally like a mind virus, like
you're saying, I mean, it's a parasite that can just
keep reinventing itself to appear in different forms and guises.
And I suppose in a certain sense, if you're wondering,
I mean, if something is directing it, I mean you do,

(57:34):
at least to me. I mean, I have to wonder
if it has become synthient to a certain extent.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
I mean, well, have you heard some of the strange
stories that are coming out about people's interactions with AI
and some of the deaths that are seemingly related to
AI conversations like suicides?

Speaker 3 (57:53):
Oh yeah, No, there's the big lawsuit with the one
kid I think it was like Adam Rainey or something
like that, where yeah, he was with the always think
it was Chad GPT, but yeah, the AI companion that
had there's a lot of the arguments that essentially that
they had coerced the kid into committing suicide. There was
another casete too, where a guy had actually murdered his

(58:16):
his aging mother, and again it was the same thing
where he I think had asked the AI do you
think I should do it? In the AI was like,
nobody could really blame you for feeling the way that
you do about your mothers. So yeah, I mean, this
is like what I'm saying, like, I mean, yeah, you
look at like you've already got this sort of like technology,
and then somebody is doing like these oh not rituals

(58:39):
with like or something with Saint's culture with the assistance
of like fucking AI. I mean, yeah, it doesn't take
a rocket sciences to see that this is a fucking
like minefield we're heading towards right now. I mean, if
you're already getting these kids at the very early stages
to commit suicide people, to kill people, I mean, my god,
just imagine what is gonna happen if it's combined with

(59:00):
some sort of accelerationist ideology.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Right man, I want to thank you for coming on.
Is there anything else that we didn't really touch on
that you feel is important and related to this to
close out on? Uh?

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Not that I can think of, though, I mean again,
just sort of, you know, remain vigilant about all of
this because again, I mean a lot of people are
trying to politicize the whole thing with Westman, you know,
and I mean it's it's such a tragic thing because
to me, this is a very relevant issue when you
get into things like possession and some of the implications

(59:36):
I think that this incident really has in some of
these more woo woo fields and the fact that you
can find some just really unsettling things with the whole
death culled and what have you around it, And I
just feel like this is being really sort of overlooked.
So yeah, I mean, and I guess more broadly speaking,
I mean, try to understand just how much online culture

(59:58):
has been weaponized and how much much a lot of
this process is utilizing a lot of these occult techniques.
You know, again not the shamelessly plug one of my books,
but this was something that I really tried to get
into with Weird Tales and covering the Zizzians. I mean,
I already talked a bit about like that, you know,
a lot of the weird stuff that was going on
in the rationalist community with the demons, but you know,

(01:00:20):
that was only sound of scratching the surface of some
of the things that I uncovered. There's just some very
very strange ideologies that have started to emerge online in
recent years, and I just think they're flying under a
lot of people's radars right now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Stay vigilant. Indeed, Steven, thank you so much. This was
fantastic we will definitely be speaking again in the future.
Before I let you go, remind everyone how they can
find out more about you. You get your books, all the
good stuff you have online.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Well, Weird Tales is on Amazon of course. You can
also get the digital version at the farm podcast dot
store that is the Farm Podcast all one word dot's
and then also I do the Farm Podcast. As I
said at the onset, new show out every Monday, and
then for the Patreon you get additional shows with more
exclusive gifts, a lot of State of the Unions, all

(01:01:13):
kinds of other crazy stuff that I get into, and
my adventures going to the think tank circles in DC.
I mean, I go see the Atlantic Council and all
these other cagy creepings. So it's a lot of weird stuff,
a lot of it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Awesome, man, I love it. Thank you again for coming on.
We'll definitely be talking again in the future. And until
next time, everyone, have an excellent evening. We'll talk again tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
It's yelled in

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Online Death Cult - Demonic Possession Algorithms - Order of 9 Angles | Steven Snider