October 26, 2025 • 22 mins
In this episode I spoke with Barry M. Putt, Jr about his book "Alice: Life Behind the Counter in Mel's Greasy Spoon". Alice: Life Behind the Counter in Mel’s Greasy Spoon (A Guide to the Feature Film, the TV Series, and More) takes you behind the scenes of one of television’s most beloved sitcoms. It all started with Martin Scorsese’s Academy Award–winning film Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore. Learn how the movie and series were developed, peruse the fact-filled episode log, and test your Alice trivia knowledge with a fan quiz featuring over 120 questions.
Doug Hess is the Producer/Host. Forgotten Hollywood is on Facebook and the books are on Amazon!
Doug Hess is the Producer/Host. Forgotten Hollywood is on Facebook and the books are on Amazon!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Forgotten Hollywood, your podcasts and
memories of yesteryear. My name is Doug Hes and if
you're tuning into Forgotting Hollywood for the first time, what
I do on this podcast is take you on a
journey back in time and share with you pieces of
Hollywood that you may or may not know about. And
today our special guest is Barry Imput Junior and he
(00:25):
is here to talk about his book Alice Life Behind
the Counter in Mells Greasy Spoon. Barry, first of all,
welcome to Forgotten Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Thank you, Doug. It's great to be here. I look
part to talking with you today.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, thank you for spending a few minutes with us
out of your busy schedule to be here and talk
to our listeners about your book Alice Life Behind the
Counter and Mel's Greasy Spoon. And like we always do
with all of our artists or authors or artists that
we have on is just kind of allow you to say,
in your own words, let the audience hear from the office,
(01:00):
what this book is about.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Well, certainly it's actually a guide to the feature film
Alice doesn't live here anymore And it's spinoffs TV series
now and then flow. So it's behind the scenes look.
That's really where Alice like behind the counter and Mel's
Greasy Spoon comes from. So it's a look behind the
scenes at how the show and the feature film were
(01:27):
came about.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
And what kind of prompted you to write this book.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well, I was a fan of the book. I'm not
the book, sorry.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
The book too, but part of the show in the sitcom.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I was a fan of the sitcom. I watched it
in syndication and then I'd always been a fan of
these types of books as well, the behind the scene
types of books. That's really what brought me to pitch
it to my publisher, Bear Manner Media, and they gave
me a year to research and write the book.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh yeah, Now the book is. It starts off talking
about the feature film, and then it talks a little
bit about the sitcoms or the shows the follows, and
then there's also a section in there some quiz questions
that you have gathered as well. I think it's about
(02:22):
one hundred and twenty if I'm doing that right. I'm
always fascinated when it comes to writing quizes for shows.
Was that pretty difficult to gather information.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
For the quiz is no, So the quizes are actually
an extension of kind of the behind the scenes narrative.
And really what I mean by that is that I
try not to duplicate information in the quiz okay, that
you'll find in the narrative. So you're kind of you're
still learning about the series while doing the questions, and
if you don't know the answers, then you just go
(02:58):
to the back of the book and then although you
know there's an answer guide in the back.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Sure. Sure, we'll the start off with the beginning the
feature film of Alice. Maybe talk us a little bit
about that because some of our listeners may not have
seen the movie in terms up, but maybe just kind
of give us a little quick background.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Sure, So, how it came about was Robert Getchel. He
was a college professor in California, uh, teaching English, and
he had really not found anything that he was interested
in on TV, so he decided to write a screenplay,
which was Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. It was his
first screenplay and two years after he wrote it it
(03:40):
was produced, So that was, you know, that was pretty
pretty fortunate at that time. Ellen Burston, who had played
in the feature film The Exorcist. She was looking for
a follow up film to do. She was reading scripts
and she came upon came upon this piece. She really
was drawn to it because it showed women independently pursuing
(04:07):
a goal within their life and being the main focus.
So that's really what drew her to it. She was
looked for a director and found Martin Skurer Sees as
a possible candidate, but he was known for kind of
male point of view films, so he told her that
he really wanted to do a film from another perspective,
(04:30):
and that's what prompted him to sign on. About two
weeks prior to the production of the film, The Mask,
Seise brought the cast out to Arizona where they shot it,
and he used improv transcription to kind of make the
(04:52):
scenes more personal to the actors, and he also brought
the writer, Robert Etchell was a part of that. It
was kind of a collaboration, so they just made the
script more authentic to the actors as well as to
the you know, the story in its own right. One
other thing I want to tell you about Robert Gotchell
(05:13):
is that he had about a twenty year career as
a screenwriter. I wrote some really rather known films. He
wrote Mommy Dearest about John Crawford. He wrote a movie
about Patsy Kline, and then a number of other biopics
or adaptations. That's really what he kind of specialized. And
after Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, which was which was
(05:35):
his own creation and not you know, based on anything.
And then his final screenplay was The Client in the
early nineteen nineties, and that was an adaptation, you know,
of a very popular novel. After that, he decided to
go back to academia. He moved to the Midwest and
for the rest of his career he worked as an
(05:56):
English teacher. So that's a little bit about background about him.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Very interesting in terms of that. And then maybe talk
a little bit about how the feature film and then
it moves to a sitcom or I keep saying sitcom,
but to a TV series.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, no, no, that's correct. So actually the film won
a couple of Academy Awards and that got the networks
interested in wanting to do it as a sitcom. They
actually wanted to have the original task from the movie
in the TV series, but at that time feature film
(06:33):
actors kind of stayed in feature film and they didn't
really kind of cross over to sitcom.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Like it is today where people are jumping ship from
one to the other, or I shouldn't say jumpionship, but
more crossing the aisle. Back then, it was kind of
TV was a place where your career was dead from
the sober screen.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Definitely, definitely. And let's see Vic Tayback, who played Met.
He was the owner and cook at the diner. He
did agree to be a part of the of the
TV series. Diane Land, who played Flow in the film,
wanted to be in in the TV series, but she
(07:14):
had a she had a contract with a network that
wouldn't let her out of it, so she couldn't. And
then the h the actor that played Alice's son, he
was in the pilot episode. They recast him after that
because I felt that he he was not while he
was young, he wasn't young enough to carry like a
(07:36):
whole number of seasons. He would be too old after
a while. And so Robert Getchel, he wrote the first episode,
the pilot episode, and that's all that he and then
he also devised the end of the concept for the
for the show. Uh the sitcom rather, but after that
(07:57):
then he really wasn't involved in the series. Now, the
diner in the feature film was called actually Melon Ruby's Cafe,
and in the pilot episode it was also called that.
If you look, there's just a very brief moment where
you see the stereier of the diner and there's a
little sign that sells Mel's and Ruby's Cafe. But after
(08:19):
the pilot then it became Mel's Diner, which is really
what most people, you know, they are fans of the show.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
No, it as sure, absolutely so. I know also in
the book you talk a little bit about how how
did flows Kiss My Grits come about? I'm sure a
lot of our audience would be curious about that.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Sure, so that was actually something that the writers came
up with. It really wasn't a phrase that was kind
of an errent to this to the South and holiday.
Now she was from I believe she was from Alabama,
so she she was, you know, from from the South,
and you kind of questioned it to the to the
(09:02):
writers because she was in a Southern phrase. But the
audience really loved it, and it quickly being part.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Of the show. In lower history, if you will, in
terms of that. What was it like on the set
of Alice the TV show? Did most of the actors
and actresses get along? Was there fighting between the cast
that you sometimes hear with some of these sitcoms, which
(09:31):
you know when you see among TV or on the screen,
the chemistry is there, and then just as soon as
they walk off the camera, there's that in fighting. Just
maybe briefly tell us a little bit about the set.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Sure, So I just to begin a little earlier than that.
I reached out to everybody that I that I had
addresses for, which was a lot of the main cast,
and I interviewed everybody that got back to me. So
sometimes I would reach out multiple times, but if they
(10:05):
didn't get back and I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I can't force anybody, right.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So I had talked to a writer on the show
and a number of other other of other people connected
with it, including people that had uh parts of reoccurring parts,
smaller parts, and they spoke very positively about the show.
(10:30):
They said that you know, all of them main cast, uh,
you know, was very nice to them. They One thing
that they did say was that Polly Holiday was a
little bit more business oriented than some of the other casts.
So it wasn't that she was she was nice, but
she was focused on the work and didn't really socialize
too much. But you know, they said that everybody was
(10:54):
really nice to you know, to work with. So my
book is based upon verified fact. So I have heard
various different things, but I think it's important to write
when you're writing something nonfiction, about the facts and that
perpetuate things that are not substantiated.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Right, And you know, like you said, if you're interviewing
somebody and they come back and send nothing but positive things,
what else can you go on with? Right at that point,
you're taking somebody's word that was actually there. In terms
of that. Now, I also know that there was a
spin off after Alice was it was Flow. How did
(11:36):
that come about? And how long did that last? Sure?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So Flow was actually developed during the first season of Alice.
During the first season of Alice, this series, Alice was
kind of struggling to get its audience. Sure, they had
the pilot of Alice that was one, you know, one episode,
and then the network gave it like four episodes. So
so let's give it four episodes and it did okay,
(12:03):
And so they gave the network gave you know, the
series another couple of episodes, and that was really the
case for the whole first season. They had a number
of directors and producers and even writers come in during
that first season that added things slowly to you know,
to you know, enhance the show. But it wasn't until
(12:26):
the season two where Madelon Davis and Bob Carroll Jr.
Came in that the show really found its footing and
it's its popularity. So because of that flow was kind
of shelved as a series because it was they wanted
to make sure that Alice was a success for doing
(12:47):
something else and you know, back to Alice. Uh. Actually,
Bob Carroll Junior and Madeline Davis, they were longtime writers
for Lucille ball Uh. They started with her radio series
My Favorite Husband, ultimately spun off to I Love Lucy,
the TV series I Love Lucy. Then they wrote with
(13:09):
the Here's Lucy, I'm Sorry you no, the Lucy Show,
Here's Lucy, and then finally Life, uh, Life with Lucy,
which was her last show. So they worked on Alice
right before they did Life with Lucy in terms of
you know, their chronology, but they brought in a lot
of experience right as producers, as as writers, and especially
(13:36):
for sitcoms because that's what they specialized in, right, some
other things. I know, I'm going to get to flowing up.
There's something there's a really strong Lucy connection within the series.
So Mark Daniels was one of the longtime directors and
I Love Lucy and it brought him back Alice to
(14:01):
direct about half of the two hundred and two episodes
of Alice. They mainly brought him in because he was
really good with things that were a little bit more complicated.
So when there were complicated episodes, he was good with details,
and they bought him that. Also, some of the actors,
most notably Desiernez was guest appeared in one of the
(14:25):
Alice episodes. So all of those things. Although Alice is
really you know, had its success by its own right,
it certainly was helped a bit by, you know, by
the I Love Lucy connection. And Madeline Davis and Bob
(14:47):
Carroll Junior wrote an audition script, so they wanted to
be sure that they could actually write for Alice, so
they wrote a Christmas episode which was seen at the
at Christmas time in season two. So that episode is
the only episode that they actually wrote for the show,
but that was something that they did just to see
(15:08):
if they could write it. It's really actually kind of
a great episode. So to get back now to Flow.
So in the fourth season of Alice, Alice was really,
you know, really probably in one of the top fifteen
shows watched at that time because most of their run,
(15:32):
it was in the top fifteen watch shows. And so
that's when they spun Flow off into its own series.
Flow was a mid season replacement in its first season,
so it had six episodes I believe, in that first season,
and it did really well, and then it came for
a second season, which had I think about twenty two
(15:56):
episodes in it, so it was a full but they
considered at that point a full a full season, and
at that point then it ended after the second after
the second season, but it had some wonderful episodes in it.
I believe that there was a two part Thanksgiving episode
that dealt with family and struggle within family that was
(16:22):
either nominated or won an Emmy, and it's in my book.
I don't remember uphand but it's in my book. But
it really was a very memorable episode. So that's how
that's how flow came about.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Excellent Berry. What surprised you during the writing and the
research of this book? Did anything surprise you?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Well? I loved learning about how the show was shot.
So when I talked to Victaback's son, Chris Chris tay Back,
he told he he actually attended every single taping of
the shows that two hundred and two episodes, and he
(17:05):
said that the show was recorded before a live audience,
and then after the audience was let go for the
for the day, the cast remained and they would record
all of the action, all of the reaction shots. So
when you see like close ups on the on the
actors reacting to something or saying something that's actually not
(17:29):
done in front of the live studio audience, it's very seamless.
I don't think you can really tell, but I thought
that that was something that was really interesting that I
would have never known otherwise.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, anything else surprised you or during the writing research in.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
The book, Well, I can tell you a little bit
about how the Mouse Diner and how that came about.
So there is a diner in Arizona that during the
first season, the producers wanted to go and have some
(18:11):
kind of representation in their show featuring the diner the
exterior of the diner. So they went to Arizona and
looked around for a diner. They found a diner called
Chris's Diner in Phoenix, Arizona. So Phoenix is where the
series is set. And they asked the owner of the restaurant, Chris,
(18:32):
if she would mind changing the name of the diner
so that they could shoot the diner for the opening
credits in Alice, and she read, and that's actually how
the diner became known as Mel's Diner. Up until then,
it had had a number of different names to it
and a number of different owners. Because I think it
(18:52):
opened like in the nineteen fifties and then the seventies,
which is when this was, it had you know which names. Again,
it still operates today. It's still called Mel's Diner today,
and it's kind of a tribute to the series. So
what I mean by that is is that there's on
the walls, there's autographed pictures all over the place of
(19:15):
the cast members. There's a kind of a display cabinet
with a script and other memorabilia from the show. There
is also in the menu, it has color pictures of
the full cast throughout the menu, so it's kind of cool.
And it's open for breakfast and lunch. I think it
(19:35):
closes about three o'clock. And I hear from from the
from the owners of the restaurant that every so often
they have people calling up and asking to speak to Flow,
you know, or or Mel I don't. I don't know why,
but I guess they really believe, you know, that it's
(19:56):
you know, it's a real it's a real restaurant. The
full history of the diner is actually in my book,
but that's kind of like a brief, a brief synopsis
of it.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Now, obviously it's been off the air for many, many years.
Is it on streaming? Can the audience pick it up
on streaming?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yes, yes, it's actually widely available now, it's available on DVD,
and I'm different streaming absolutely well.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, And that's one of the best things about streaming
now and the way things are almost anything's out there
that you want to get your hands on. And you know,
some of these sitcoms or these films, it's been a
while since they've been ran on TV, and so it's
(20:45):
always great that we can find it that way. Yes, yes, well,
Mary I know we're out of time here, but I
wanted to say thank you for coming on and to
our listeners, please go out and get a copy of
Barry's book, Alice Behind the Counter and Melos Greasy Spoon.
We just touched the tip of the iceberg, as Barry
(21:07):
was saying, there's a lot more information in the book.
And if you're a fan of Alice, or maybe you
haven't seen Alice and you're kind of new a younger
from the younger generation, go out. It's on the streaming
system as Barry said, or you can purchase the DVDs,
but get a copy of his book and then sit
down and watch the episodes and I think you'll find
(21:29):
that very insightful. With the films. Well, I want to
say again thank you Barry for coming on and spend
some time with us today, and thank you for listening
to this episode of Forgotten Hollywood. Just search for docast
Forgot Hollywood. You can also find me on Twitter, Instagram
at hestep fourteen. If you listen to this podcast on
(21:50):
iTunes and another podcast service, please subscribe, rate and review
this episode. Tune in next time for this episode of
Forgotten Hollywood. Thank you for listening, and we will see
you then
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Forgotten Hollywood, your podcasts and
memories of yesteryear. My name is Doug Hes and if
you're tuning into Forgotting Hollywood for the first time, what
I do on this podcast is take you on a
journey back in time and share with you pieces of
Hollywood that you may or may not know about. And
today our special guest is Barry Imput Junior and he
(00:25):
is here to talk about his book Alice Life Behind
the Counter in Mells Greasy Spoon. Barry, first of all,
welcome to Forgotten Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Thank you, Doug. It's great to be here. I look
part to talking with you today.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, thank you for spending a few minutes with us
out of your busy schedule to be here and talk
to our listeners about your book Alice Life Behind the
Counter and Mel's Greasy Spoon. And like we always do
with all of our artists or authors or artists that
we have on is just kind of allow you to say,
in your own words, let the audience hear from the office,
(01:00):
what this book is about.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Well, certainly it's actually a guide to the feature film
Alice doesn't live here anymore And it's spinoffs TV series
now and then flow. So it's behind the scenes look.
That's really where Alice like behind the counter and Mel's
Greasy Spoon comes from. So it's a look behind the
scenes at how the show and the feature film were
(01:27):
came about.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
And what kind of prompted you to write this book.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well, I was a fan of the book. I'm not
the book, sorry.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
The book too, but part of the show in the sitcom.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I was a fan of the sitcom. I watched it
in syndication and then I'd always been a fan of
these types of books as well, the behind the scene
types of books. That's really what brought me to pitch
it to my publisher, Bear Manner Media, and they gave
me a year to research and write the book.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh yeah, Now the book is. It starts off talking
about the feature film, and then it talks a little
bit about the sitcoms or the shows the follows, and
then there's also a section in there some quiz questions
that you have gathered as well. I think it's about
(02:22):
one hundred and twenty if I'm doing that right. I'm
always fascinated when it comes to writing quizes for shows.
Was that pretty difficult to gather information.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
For the quiz is no, So the quizes are actually
an extension of kind of the behind the scenes narrative.
And really what I mean by that is that I
try not to duplicate information in the quiz okay, that
you'll find in the narrative. So you're kind of you're
still learning about the series while doing the questions, and
if you don't know the answers, then you just go
(02:58):
to the back of the book and then although you
know there's an answer guide in the back.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Sure. Sure, we'll the start off with the beginning the
feature film of Alice. Maybe talk us a little bit
about that because some of our listeners may not have
seen the movie in terms up, but maybe just kind
of give us a little quick background.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Sure, So, how it came about was Robert Getchel. He
was a college professor in California, uh, teaching English, and
he had really not found anything that he was interested
in on TV, so he decided to write a screenplay,
which was Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. It was his
first screenplay and two years after he wrote it it
(03:40):
was produced, So that was, you know, that was pretty
pretty fortunate at that time. Ellen Burston, who had played
in the feature film The Exorcist. She was looking for
a follow up film to do. She was reading scripts
and she came upon came upon this piece. She really
was drawn to it because it showed women independently pursuing
(04:07):
a goal within their life and being the main focus.
So that's really what drew her to it. She was
looked for a director and found Martin Skurer Sees as
a possible candidate, but he was known for kind of
male point of view films, so he told her that
he really wanted to do a film from another perspective,
(04:30):
and that's what prompted him to sign on. About two
weeks prior to the production of the film, The Mask,
Seise brought the cast out to Arizona where they shot it,
and he used improv transcription to kind of make the
(04:52):
scenes more personal to the actors, and he also brought
the writer, Robert Etchell was a part of that. It
was kind of a collaboration, so they just made the
script more authentic to the actors as well as to
the you know, the story in its own right. One
other thing I want to tell you about Robert Gotchell
(05:13):
is that he had about a twenty year career as
a screenwriter. I wrote some really rather known films. He
wrote Mommy Dearest about John Crawford. He wrote a movie
about Patsy Kline, and then a number of other biopics
or adaptations. That's really what he kind of specialized. And
after Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, which was which was
(05:35):
his own creation and not you know, based on anything.
And then his final screenplay was The Client in the
early nineteen nineties, and that was an adaptation, you know,
of a very popular novel. After that, he decided to
go back to academia. He moved to the Midwest and
for the rest of his career he worked as an
(05:56):
English teacher. So that's a little bit about background about him.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Very interesting in terms of that. And then maybe talk
a little bit about how the feature film and then
it moves to a sitcom or I keep saying sitcom,
but to a TV series.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, no, no, that's correct. So actually the film won
a couple of Academy Awards and that got the networks
interested in wanting to do it as a sitcom. They
actually wanted to have the original task from the movie
in the TV series, but at that time feature film
(06:33):
actors kind of stayed in feature film and they didn't
really kind of cross over to sitcom.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Like it is today where people are jumping ship from
one to the other, or I shouldn't say jumpionship, but
more crossing the aisle. Back then, it was kind of
TV was a place where your career was dead from
the sober screen.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Definitely, definitely. And let's see Vic Tayback, who played Met.
He was the owner and cook at the diner. He
did agree to be a part of the of the
TV series. Diane Land, who played Flow in the film,
wanted to be in in the TV series, but she
(07:14):
had a she had a contract with a network that
wouldn't let her out of it, so she couldn't. And
then the h the actor that played Alice's son, he
was in the pilot episode. They recast him after that
because I felt that he he was not while he
was young, he wasn't young enough to carry like a
(07:36):
whole number of seasons. He would be too old after
a while. And so Robert Getchel, he wrote the first episode,
the pilot episode, and that's all that he and then
he also devised the end of the concept for the
for the show. Uh the sitcom rather, but after that
(07:57):
then he really wasn't involved in the series. Now, the
diner in the feature film was called actually Melon Ruby's Cafe,
and in the pilot episode it was also called that.
If you look, there's just a very brief moment where
you see the stereier of the diner and there's a
little sign that sells Mel's and Ruby's Cafe. But after
(08:19):
the pilot then it became Mel's Diner, which is really
what most people, you know, they are fans of the show.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
No, it as sure, absolutely so. I know also in
the book you talk a little bit about how how
did flows Kiss My Grits come about? I'm sure a
lot of our audience would be curious about that.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Sure, so that was actually something that the writers came
up with. It really wasn't a phrase that was kind
of an errent to this to the South and holiday.
Now she was from I believe she was from Alabama,
so she she was, you know, from from the South,
and you kind of questioned it to the to the
(09:02):
writers because she was in a Southern phrase. But the
audience really loved it, and it quickly being part.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Of the show. In lower history, if you will, in
terms of that. What was it like on the set
of Alice the TV show? Did most of the actors
and actresses get along? Was there fighting between the cast
that you sometimes hear with some of these sitcoms, which
(09:31):
you know when you see among TV or on the screen,
the chemistry is there, and then just as soon as
they walk off the camera, there's that in fighting. Just
maybe briefly tell us a little bit about the set.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Sure, So I just to begin a little earlier than that.
I reached out to everybody that I that I had
addresses for, which was a lot of the main cast,
and I interviewed everybody that got back to me. So
sometimes I would reach out multiple times, but if they
(10:05):
didn't get back and I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I can't force anybody, right.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So I had talked to a writer on the show
and a number of other other of other people connected
with it, including people that had uh parts of reoccurring parts,
smaller parts, and they spoke very positively about the show.
(10:30):
They said that you know, all of them main cast, uh,
you know, was very nice to them. They One thing
that they did say was that Polly Holiday was a
little bit more business oriented than some of the other casts.
So it wasn't that she was she was nice, but
she was focused on the work and didn't really socialize
too much. But you know, they said that everybody was
(10:54):
really nice to you know, to work with. So my
book is based upon verified fact. So I have heard
various different things, but I think it's important to write
when you're writing something nonfiction, about the facts and that
perpetuate things that are not substantiated.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Right, And you know, like you said, if you're interviewing
somebody and they come back and send nothing but positive things,
what else can you go on with? Right at that point,
you're taking somebody's word that was actually there. In terms
of that. Now, I also know that there was a
spin off after Alice was it was Flow. How did
(11:36):
that come about? And how long did that last? Sure?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So Flow was actually developed during the first season of Alice.
During the first season of Alice, this series, Alice was
kind of struggling to get its audience. Sure, they had
the pilot of Alice that was one, you know, one episode,
and then the network gave it like four episodes. So
so let's give it four episodes and it did okay,
(12:03):
And so they gave the network gave you know, the
series another couple of episodes, and that was really the
case for the whole first season. They had a number
of directors and producers and even writers come in during
that first season that added things slowly to you know,
to you know, enhance the show. But it wasn't until
(12:26):
the season two where Madelon Davis and Bob Carroll Jr.
Came in that the show really found its footing and
it's its popularity. So because of that flow was kind
of shelved as a series because it was they wanted
to make sure that Alice was a success for doing
(12:47):
something else and you know, back to Alice. Uh. Actually,
Bob Carroll Junior and Madeline Davis, they were longtime writers
for Lucille ball Uh. They started with her radio series
My Favorite Husband, ultimately spun off to I Love Lucy,
the TV series I Love Lucy. Then they wrote with
(13:09):
the Here's Lucy, I'm Sorry you no, the Lucy Show,
Here's Lucy, and then finally Life, uh, Life with Lucy,
which was her last show. So they worked on Alice
right before they did Life with Lucy in terms of
you know, their chronology, but they brought in a lot
of experience right as producers, as as writers, and especially
(13:36):
for sitcoms because that's what they specialized in, right, some
other things. I know, I'm going to get to flowing up.
There's something there's a really strong Lucy connection within the series.
So Mark Daniels was one of the longtime directors and
I Love Lucy and it brought him back Alice to
(14:01):
direct about half of the two hundred and two episodes
of Alice. They mainly brought him in because he was
really good with things that were a little bit more complicated.
So when there were complicated episodes, he was good with details,
and they bought him that. Also, some of the actors,
most notably Desiernez was guest appeared in one of the
(14:25):
Alice episodes. So all of those things. Although Alice is
really you know, had its success by its own right,
it certainly was helped a bit by, you know, by
the I Love Lucy connection. And Madeline Davis and Bob
(14:47):
Carroll Junior wrote an audition script, so they wanted to
be sure that they could actually write for Alice, so
they wrote a Christmas episode which was seen at the
at Christmas time in season two. So that episode is
the only episode that they actually wrote for the show,
but that was something that they did just to see
(15:08):
if they could write it. It's really actually kind of
a great episode. So to get back now to Flow.
So in the fourth season of Alice, Alice was really,
you know, really probably in one of the top fifteen
shows watched at that time because most of their run,
(15:32):
it was in the top fifteen watch shows. And so
that's when they spun Flow off into its own series.
Flow was a mid season replacement in its first season,
so it had six episodes I believe, in that first season,
and it did really well, and then it came for
a second season, which had I think about twenty two
(15:56):
episodes in it, so it was a full but they
considered at that point a full a full season, and
at that point then it ended after the second after
the second season, but it had some wonderful episodes in it.
I believe that there was a two part Thanksgiving episode
that dealt with family and struggle within family that was
(16:22):
either nominated or won an Emmy, and it's in my book.
I don't remember uphand but it's in my book. But
it really was a very memorable episode. So that's how
that's how flow came about.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Excellent Berry. What surprised you during the writing and the
research of this book? Did anything surprise you?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Well? I loved learning about how the show was shot.
So when I talked to Victaback's son, Chris Chris tay Back,
he told he he actually attended every single taping of
the shows that two hundred and two episodes, and he
(17:05):
said that the show was recorded before a live audience,
and then after the audience was let go for the
for the day, the cast remained and they would record
all of the action, all of the reaction shots. So
when you see like close ups on the on the
actors reacting to something or saying something that's actually not
(17:29):
done in front of the live studio audience, it's very seamless.
I don't think you can really tell, but I thought
that that was something that was really interesting that I
would have never known otherwise.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, anything else surprised you or during the writing research in.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
The book, Well, I can tell you a little bit
about how the Mouse Diner and how that came about.
So there is a diner in Arizona that during the
first season, the producers wanted to go and have some
(18:11):
kind of representation in their show featuring the diner the
exterior of the diner. So they went to Arizona and
looked around for a diner. They found a diner called
Chris's Diner in Phoenix, Arizona. So Phoenix is where the
series is set. And they asked the owner of the restaurant, Chris,
(18:32):
if she would mind changing the name of the diner
so that they could shoot the diner for the opening
credits in Alice, and she read, and that's actually how
the diner became known as Mel's Diner. Up until then,
it had had a number of different names to it
and a number of different owners. Because I think it
(18:52):
opened like in the nineteen fifties and then the seventies,
which is when this was, it had you know which names. Again,
it still operates today. It's still called Mel's Diner today,
and it's kind of a tribute to the series. So
what I mean by that is is that there's on
the walls, there's autographed pictures all over the place of
(19:15):
the cast members. There's a kind of a display cabinet
with a script and other memorabilia from the show. There
is also in the menu, it has color pictures of
the full cast throughout the menu, so it's kind of cool.
And it's open for breakfast and lunch. I think it
(19:35):
closes about three o'clock. And I hear from from the
from the owners of the restaurant that every so often
they have people calling up and asking to speak to Flow,
you know, or or Mel I don't. I don't know why,
but I guess they really believe, you know, that it's
(19:56):
you know, it's a real it's a real restaurant. The
full history of the diner is actually in my book,
but that's kind of like a brief, a brief synopsis
of it.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Now, obviously it's been off the air for many, many years.
Is it on streaming? Can the audience pick it up
on streaming?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yes, yes, it's actually widely available now, it's available on DVD,
and I'm different streaming absolutely well.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, And that's one of the best things about streaming
now and the way things are almost anything's out there
that you want to get your hands on. And you know,
some of these sitcoms or these films, it's been a
while since they've been ran on TV, and so it's
(20:45):
always great that we can find it that way. Yes, yes, well,
Mary I know we're out of time here, but I
wanted to say thank you for coming on and to
our listeners, please go out and get a copy of
Barry's book, Alice Behind the Counter and Melos Greasy Spoon.
We just touched the tip of the iceberg, as Barry
(21:07):
was saying, there's a lot more information in the book.
And if you're a fan of Alice, or maybe you
haven't seen Alice and you're kind of new a younger
from the younger generation, go out. It's on the streaming
system as Barry said, or you can purchase the DVDs,
but get a copy of his book and then sit
down and watch the episodes and I think you'll find
(21:29):
that very insightful. With the films. Well, I want to
say again thank you Barry for coming on and spend
some time with us today, and thank you for listening
to this episode of Forgotten Hollywood. Just search for docast
Forgot Hollywood. You can also find me on Twitter, Instagram
at hestep fourteen. If you listen to this podcast on
(21:50):
iTunes and another podcast service, please subscribe, rate and review
this episode. Tune in next time for this episode of
Forgotten Hollywood. Thank you for listening, and we will see
you then
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