October 30, 2025 • 32 mins
Larry Namer is an American entertainment entrepreneur, television visionary, and media innovator best known as the co-founder of E! Entertainment Television. Born in Brooklyn, New York, Namer began his career as a cable TV engineer before moving into programming and business leadership roles across the industry. In 1990, he and his partner developed the idea for what became E!—a 24-hour network focused on Hollywood, pop culture, and entertainment news. The network grew into a global brand that forever changed how audiences consume celebrity and entertainment coverage. Following E!, Namer continued launching and consulting for media ventures worldwide. He co-founded Metan Global Entertainment Group, which specializes in developing Western-style content for Asian markets, including China. Throughout his career, he has remained a key figure in shaping entertainment media around the world. Namer is widely regarded for his pioneering vision, strategic media insights, and for helping bridge international entertainment markets in today’s global content economy. Doug Hess talks to him about all of that! Forgotten Hollywood is on Facebook and the books are on Amazon.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Let's go Bye Forgotten Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome back to Forget in Hollywood, the podcast where we
shine a spotlight on the untold stories, overlooked legends, and
behind the scenes magic that help shape the entertainment industry
we know today. I'm your host Doug has and today's
guest is someone who doesn't who didn't just witness the
evolution of Hollywood, he helped create a whole new chapter
(00:29):
in it. Larry Namer is a true media pioneer. A
Brooklyn born cable technician turned visionary entrepreneur, Larry co founded
E Entertainment Television, Yes, the E Network, and in doing so,
helped redefine celebrity culture, red carpet coverage in entertainment journalism
as we know it. But what you may not know
(00:50):
is the story behind the scenes. It struggles to risks,
the early skepticism, and a volment that made E a
household name today. Larry takes us back to the early
days of cable TV, shares the forgotten stories from Hollywood's
media transformation, and reflects on what has been lost and
found in the ever changing landscape of entertainment. So grab
(01:11):
your headphones and take a seat behind the curtain. This
has Forgotten Hollywood with Larry Namer. Larry, welcome to Forgotten Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Hi, thanks thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, it's a pleasure, and thank you for taking a
few minutes out of your busy schedule to be with
us today. We really appreciate that. And we'll just go
ahead and dive right in and said, so, Larry, maybe
take us a little back a little and what were
some of your earliest memories of Hollywood or entertainment where
you were growing up in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, you know, I grew up in what still is
not gentrified Brooklyn. I grew up in Coney Island, so
that's still a hood. And you know, just never in
a million years imagined I would end up in hollywod.
I can never imagine leaving Brooklyn in New York. And
(02:03):
you know, I it was kind of interesting because you know,
we went to public schools and three of my folks
that we were in the seventh grade, we all ended
up in Hollywood in fairly cethral I mean, very successful positions.
Stan Rogo went on to become, you know, the head
(02:26):
of children's programming at Disney, and Elliott Lewie went on
to become the head of music at Fox. And you know,
here are three kids from you know, the neighborhood in
the seventh grade together end up in Hollywood, and you know,
it did pretty well, just you know again, family, you
(02:47):
know had immigrant mentality, which is the kids need to
get civil service jobs so they could retire at sixty
five with a pension. So you know, no no thoughts
or aspirations at that point.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Great. So you co founded at a time when cable
TV was still considered probably the wild wild West. What
was the original vision and how did it differ from
what existed on TV.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
At the time. Well, you know, we started the original
name was called Movie Time, and then then you know,
which was we focused on the film industry. But then
we decided to be much broader and cover entertainment. Uh,
we changed the name to Eat. But Alan and I,
(03:36):
you know, I ended up in California to build a
cable system because I started out on the cable system side,
and Alan was my friend from New Jersey. And after
the company I worked for sold and they went back
to Canada, they wanted me to go to Canada and
I was like, no, no, no, I didn't go from you know,
(03:57):
New York, LA to go to Canada. I said, I'm
done with the cold. I like it out here, and
so Alan and I just started kicking around ideas and well,
when I was at when I came out to California,
I built Valley Cable, which was the first sixty one
channel two way cable system I ever built. And one
of the things that always fascinated me because now I
(04:20):
had everything reported to me, including programming. So for the
first time, I you know, well, your neighbors are going
to parties and premiers and all this everybody's part of Hollywood.
And I said, wow, that looks really cool. I want
to do that. And I talked to the studios and
they go, n you know, you're more like the phone
company or the gas company, your utility. We're not going
(04:43):
to invite you. And then I met someone, actually I
think from Universal, and you know, I said, I don't understand.
The most valuable marketing pool you have is a movie trailer.
But yet the only time I ever see a movie
trailer is when I'm in the movies. I said, wouldn't
you want me to see that when I'm at home
to make me want to go to the movies. And
(05:04):
they went, yeah, but it's very expensive to put two
minutes on TV. You know, we don't do that. I said, great,
I got sixty one channels, and I'm not sure what
you put on sixty one channels. I said, give me
the movie trailers and you know, I'll put them on
for free, but you put me on those lists and
he said sure. You know, but when we did audi
in surveys, you know, what's your favorite channel, They're going, oh,
(05:27):
I love CNN, I love ESPN, I love that trailer channel.
And I'm like, wow, that's really weird. I'm getting the
best two minutes of a then fifty million dollar movie
free and people absolutely love it. And I just kind
of filed that in the back of my head. But
then when the company sold out, Alan and I were
kicking around ideas and he said, you know, I've been
fascinated by MTV, and you know, wouldn't it be wonderful
(05:52):
if somebody did MTV of the movies? And I said,
wait a second. I said, you know, I had this
trailer channel ally Cable, and you know, when you think
about it, MTV got all these music videos for free,
and they stood a host in front of a green
screen and said hey, and Madonna has a new video.
(06:13):
I said, we can stand a host in front of
a green screen and say hey, Shw's has a new movie.
So you know that kind of started. You know how
we we were able to think that this could be
a successful venture because we would get all this great
content for free, just like MTV. But you know, we
(06:34):
wrote a business plan and we thought we were really smart,
and then you know, we just started getting hit with
the objections. You know, people going in and say, you
know what, it's an interesting idea, but you're not Fox,
you're not Disney, you're not Time Warner. People don't start
TV networks. You got to be a big media company
start a TV network. You know, no people are no
(06:56):
person has ever done it, no personal will ever do it.
And you know, a nice idea, but get out of here.
We were rejected over one hundred times. You know. Well,
we went and pitched and finally we found someone who
worked for a bond house on Wall Street and said hey,
I really love it and I want to do it.
And we were like, well, you know, these things cost
(07:19):
somewhere between sixty and one hundred million dollars to start.
Could you give us more like one hundred and then
he said, oh, no, no, no, I'm only allowed to sign
for two and a half. And I was like, what
am I going to do with two and a half.
I can't even buy the cameras And he said, well
that's all I could sign for. So Alan and I
just said, you know what, we're smart, we'll figure it out.
(07:39):
So we literally made a deal. We took two and
a half million dollars. And I had a friend who
was teaching radio television film at University of Texas in Austin,
and I called them up and said, Brian, to have
kids who meet summer intern jobs. I got like all
these openings and he said, yeah, we had trouble placing
this year. I said, well, great, send me all you got. So,
(08:01):
you know, people don't realize because he turned into a monster.
You know, it's one hundred and forty two countries and
arguably the biggest influence of pop culture in the world.
But he started with eleven employees and thirty one interns.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Wow, amazing, So learly, what were some of the biggest
challenges trying to get the talent? Convinced that a twenty
four hour entertainment news network would work well.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
We we started out, we spent a lot of our
money and a lot of our time finding hosts. Yeah,
we don't have enough money to affect you know, if
I do fancy programming or anything like that. The biggest
thing we could spend on would be picking hosts. And
people always say, oh, you guys were very lucky. You
(08:51):
had all those great hosts. You know, we had Greg
Kaneer who went on Academy Awards, Julie Moran went to
be the first woman on Wild World of Sports, and
Katie Wegner did Lifestyles Are Famous, and Mark DeCarlo did Studs.
That was not an accident. That was very deliberate. Again,
with very limited money, we just went crazy on saying
(09:12):
we got to find hosts that people love or hate,
but they got to feel something from. So we actually
put god, I think it was seventy two hundred people
on tape to get the first five hosts, so that
that was not an accident. So you know, we did that,
and you know, we started by having the host introduced
(09:33):
the movie trailers, you know, very MTV like, and then
when you know we we launched. You know, it's funny
because we launched with this low amount of money, and
we couldn't even buy professional equipment. We bought like used
equipment that people using for making sales, training tapes and stuff.
(09:54):
So our stuff looked very pirate. It looked very different,
and you know that turned out to be fortuitous because
people are like, oh my god, this is so different
than we've seen. It seems like pirate TV. Well, in
the fact, it was pirate. But you know, as soon
as we went on the air, everybody said, oh my god,
(10:15):
this is what you wanted to do. You should have
told us we wouldn't given you money three years ago.
And we grew in the first year. I think we
ended up in fourteen different countries, which was unthinkable you
know back in that time.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Wow, that's amazing. How did you handle some of the
early criticism, skepticism from Hollywood insiders.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Well, everybody was like, you know, they were laughing at
us and stuff like that. I mean, we applied the
first year, we applied for credentials to go to the
oscars and we got rejected. They said, oh, you're some
dumb little cable network. We're not giving you anything. So again,
you know, being kind of scrapped Brooklyn. Whatever. We literally
(11:02):
climbed over the fence. We snuck in. We were on
the red carpet and we were there for almost half
an hour before we got caught and they escorted us
out unceremoniously. But you know, we had all this footage
and the real difference was, you know, you had things
like Entertainment Tonight and Access Hollywood, and they were very stiff.
(11:25):
It would be so mister Cruz, tell us about your
next movie, you know, and we kind of, you know, Alan,
I shared this thing like, Hollywood is funny stuff. Don't
try and make believe it's rocket science. And you know,
we'd be on the carpet going, oh, Tom, those are
amazing shoes. Where do you get those? You know, what
do you do with the kids on the weekend. So
(11:46):
we just took this whole different attitude and it just
the audience recognized it and it resonated, and you know,
and that kind of led to the way red carpets
were covered after that, and then when the studios began
to see the kind of reaction that we got from
the way we were covering versus you know, the way
(12:08):
everybody else was. You know, all of a sudden they
were like, hey, do you want the Wayne's Brothers on?
Do you want these on? But I think the real
turning point was we there was a famous actor in
Odd Coupled, Jack lemon Pack, was known for not really
doing a lot of marketing publicity stuff, and you know,
(12:30):
we asked the manager if he would come on before
some project that he was doing, and it was like, no,
Jack doesn't like to do that. And I was like, well,
what does Jack like to do? And he was like, well,
you know, Jack is very private and he stays home.
He loves playing the piano and stuff like that. I said, okay,
tell you what I got twenty four hours a day
to Phil. I said, I'll put a p on the
(12:52):
set and let Jack come and play the piano for
an hour. And he goes and nobody will talk to
him or ask him questions. I go, like, guarantee it, nobody,
just play the piano and leave. And you know, Jack
came and I'm very wary waiting, you know, going, these
guys can't be serious that he's going to talk to me.
(13:12):
And you know, I just told the crew I said, nobody,
just let Jack play. And so Jack started playing the
piano looking around waiting for somebody to you know, break
the silence and then realize that we actually weren't going
to do it, and he just got really comfortable and
just turned to the camera and started talking and all
the stuff that people wanted to ask him for years,
(13:34):
he just started talking about it. And you know, then
word got out around town. They go, there's cable network
called I mean, we were still movie Time at that time.
Got Jack Lemon to come on and talk, and then
everybody was calling us. They were going, you know, so
(13:55):
and so wants a hot could you, you know, could
you could you put someone on as a guest host,
and you know, we had all these amazing guest hosts
and so that we actually became Hollywood Channel. And what
was interesting is even though Hollywood was kind of the
entertainment center of the world, there were no TV networks
that were centered in Hollywood. Oddly we were the first one.
(14:17):
And you know, so we talked to the Hollywood Chamber
of Commerce and tell them what we're doing, and they
embraced it. They said, wow, this is amazing. We finally
got a TV channel here. So we would get invited
to all their events and stuff. So we became kind
of the insiders.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
That's great, well kind of piggybacking off of that. So
did you anticipate how influential you would become for the
Red Carpets, Reality TV and celebrity news.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Not in a million years. You know, we always know,
We said, look, how hard is it to figure out
that people around the world love Hollywood, Hollywood gossip, Hollywood
stories and stuff like that, but not you know, and
Alan I to you know, East Coast kids and you know,
playing in the world that was meant for big, big
(15:06):
media companies only, and you know, and people tried to
crush us. You know, people were offended by you know,
these two idiots that were out changing the world. You know,
and Fox was not happy with us Home Shopping Network,
which was huguely successful at the time, I had an
amazing amount of money. They decided they were going to
(15:29):
launch their own and they made an announcement to their
launching an entertainment channel just like us. But then after
their announcement, they realized we already had the backing of
all the studios and all the cable operators and they
literally had a you know, with their their head and there.
But you know, had to back off and tell the
(15:51):
Wall Street Journal that they decided not to go forward
with it.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That's great. So your career spans, Dick, Are there any
personalities or moments in Hollywood history that you don't feel
get their recognition that they deserve.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Well, you know, I I think there's there's a lot
of stuff there. I think, you know, I mean, my favorite,
one of my favorite people of all time is Greg
can here, you know, and uh, you know when we
you know, we started, you know with Greg introducing movie trailers,
and you know, then then we created talk Soup namely
(16:29):
for Greg. And you know, I think he's he's an
amazing actor, he's an amazing person, He's wonderful of allon
and I have an event to celebrate some anniversary of
the no matter where Greg is, he shows up and
stuff like that. So yeah, you know Greg, and yeah,
but there have been so many people. I mean, we
(16:51):
were one of the first people who recognized the Waynes
brothers well before they were the Waynes Brothers, when you know,
it was just one way in and you know, folks
like that, and yeah, there's just so many people with
such incredible talent. I mean, we missed a bunch we
(17:11):
were nimble enough to recover. You know, when Alan was
friends with this woman who was teaching dancing the lake
a cheerleaders name, you know, and he goes, Paula wants
to come on, and I'm like, you know, what what
are we gonna do with not a cheerleading channel? And
Paula came on before the first album and stuff like that.
(17:34):
You know, Paula Abdul Obviously paul do really well. You know,
so people like got Ryan Seacrest. We interviewed a few
months and we were like, you know, Ryan, you know
you're a nice boy, but we're not sure this is
for you. Uh And then finally we said I'll want
the hell, you know. And Ryan went on to do
pretty good. And yeah, just just so many stories. I mean,
(17:59):
we we were so, you know, twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week, and now he is one hundred
and forty two countries. We had a lot of time
to be whimsical.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Sure, so you've seen the entertainment industry evolve. Is there
any old school Hollywood values that you think have been lost?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I think a lot of old school up you know. Well, first,
you know, Hollywood was early Hollywood, very innovative place. I mean,
were people there that were not afraid to take chances.
They put their money where their mouth is. It's Hollywood
has become very corporate, a public company mentality. It's you know,
(18:49):
we got to report quarterly results, so we got a
lot of chances. Very different than the way it was
than it used to be. I mean, when you look
at the fact that it was, I thought absolutely clear
that the world when digital came around, that the world
was going to go to streaming. You know, you look
(19:11):
at it and you say a simple equation, do you
want to watch what you want to watch when you
want to watch it, or do you want to watch
when NBC wants you to watch one they want you
to watch it. We all knew the answer, and but yet,
you know, people stuck with linear television networks. You know,
(19:32):
and then now you know, you look at comcasts looking
to divest the linear Now, you know, you should have
been done fifteen years ago, at ten years ago at least,
because there was no question where the audience was going,
and you know it was not towards linear, and you know,
you it just made no sense at all to stay
(19:52):
in that format. But then again, you know, you talk
to some of the CEOs the big cable networks or
the cable groups, and they were like, well, you know,
in order for us to move from linear to digital,
we'd have to write off seven billion dollars in equipment
that you're no longer need. And I don't want to
walk into a boardroom telling them that I'm you know,
(20:13):
writing down seven billion dollars. I want to retire in
two years. Let my predecessor, you know, or you know,
deal with that issue and stuff. So you kind of
lost a lot of that entrepreneurial spirit. Like I say,
you know, you just look at what's happened, and you know,
fighting digital music and things like that. You know, technology
(20:37):
marches on whether you like it or not. You know,
I mean, I think we're seeing the same thing with
AI now, you know where people are just going, oh,
that's horrible, We're not going to let that happen. Well,
it's going to happen whether you like it or not. Right,
you know, how do you play in the game, How
do you protect your rights? How do you how do
you use this to be more creative or more you know,
(21:01):
to get more done than you ever did before. And
you know, you got to adopt and that's what early
Hollywood did, and then it kind of lost its way,
you know, sometime in the early two thousands.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, So how does the global entertainment landscape compare to Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Well, you know, you go back and you look at
why Hollywood became Hollywood. You know, you had all these
amazing immigrants, you know, I mean these and they came
and you know, they had a vision and they were
entrepreneurial and stuff. But you know, you go back, Hollywood
was the place you had to come if you wanted
to make any visual entertainment. You needed big sound stages,
(21:45):
and you needed very expensive equipment. I think, I think
when I started it, you know, good camera was like
two hundred fifty thousand dollars and it's not as good
as my iPhone. But you look at you literally, you say,
you know, as technology keeps bringing down the barriers to
entry and bringing down the costs that less and less.
(22:09):
So you know, it used to be Germany would take
how you know, a Hollywood TV show and dub it
and you know it was in English and they dub
it in German. And the price has got enough they said, hey,
we could make stuff here in Germany in our language,
and Russia and every place else. So you know, we
were probably one of the first, if not the first,
(22:31):
to recognize that Hollywood stops becoming the production center but
really becomes it's a level of quality, it's a measure
of creativity stuff there, and that you've got to really
understand that video entertainment's going to be made literally anywhere,
(22:54):
you know, and you look at it. Now, I could
go to Africa with my iPhone and make them. That's
as good as something that I could have done when
I first got into business. That would have cost me
millions of dollars. I mean now are ay I you know,
graphics and effects and things that cost me tens of thousands,
(23:15):
if not millions of dollars now costs me pennies. So
you know, technology changes everything. You're never gonna stop it.
You know when in the early days of Hollywood, you know,
you look at this country and you know we had
horse farm you know, horse ranchers and everything like they
(23:36):
wanted everybody to have horse and buggy and they weren't
real happy when Henry Ford started, you know, mass producing cars.
You know, I just take people, I say, come to
the window and me. Let's look out. Tell me how
many horse and buggies you see? And tell me how
many cars you see? You know, we need laws, we
need regulations, we need things that stop bad people from
(23:57):
doing bad things, to stop the technology.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
That is so true. So Larry, looking back, what's something
you would have done differently if you were now just
now launching.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
E Well, I you know, if I would have launched
it today, I would I mean, I would never launch
a linear television network. I would never launch a twenty
four hour day network because that's not the way people
consume media. True, So we would have gone nonlinear. I mean,
don't forget. We were one of the first to really
move to the digital world with the online you know,
(24:35):
which was the precursor to a lot of these streamers.
And you know, I love short form. I think the
attention span is you know, clearly moving the shorter and shorter.
I mean, and we've seen tiktoks and now he's article
dramas and stuff like that, so we would we would
start more that way. I mean. Actually, I'm helping Alan,
(24:59):
my partner, Alan Will. It's just started a channel called Versa,
which is for these short films, and I'm helping them
with global strategy and stuff like that. And you know,
it's amazing that you know, people are laughing that it's
you know, cheesy and stuff like that. But that's what
the audience wants to watch. They want to watch it
(25:21):
on their cell phone. I mean, we started have a
company in China and one of the shows we do
is called Hello Hollywood, which is we look at Hollywood.
But how does the Chinese audience want to what is
it they want to know? I mean here, you know,
it's like, well, you know TMZ. You know, let's catch
someone cheating on their wife and we'll ruin their wife forever,
(25:43):
and it's much more gentle. So we started Hello Hollywood,
and but we realized that seventy two percent of the
people who were watching our stuff in China were watching
us on a cell phone, and we just said, why
are we shooting horizontal people watching it vertical, you know,
(26:06):
And so we started shooting vertical there years ago and stuff,
and it made more sense because that's why people watching it.
I mean, even to the point where you know, here
you do final Let It on a fifty five inch
television monitor, we were doing final Let It on a
five inch iPhone.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Well how times have changed.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, but that's the thing you gotta not everything lasts forever,
and I have to I mean now the whole backlash
to AI and stuff. It's an amazing tool. I mean
when I got in the business, I always use this
as an example. If I would write a script, you know,
(26:49):
do it on a typewriter, take me three months, and
used to have this little bottle of white out, and
you know you made a mistake and do it. It looked
like garbage. But time you finished it because he had
all these little white spots.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Sure, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And then the laptop came around and word processing, and
well you take me three months, was now taking me
five days. And you know, and now Ami comes. If
you were to ask me to say, Larry, could you
write a a preliminary plan on you know, doing a
(27:24):
TV service, you know, on coffee cups, you know, make
up anything, and you should take me five days to
do the research through the competitive analysis, to do a budget,
to do a little PowerPoint. It now takes me thirty seconds, right,
takes an I got to clean it up. It's never
one hundred percent, sure needs the human touch, but it
(27:47):
takes me an hour I said, so, you know, if
I could get paid the same thing that used to
take me five days, I can now get paid, you know,
for that thing done in an hour. I said, how
could I not love that? I mean, as human beings,
we all have a limited time on this planet, and
time is the most valuable you know, asset we have.
(28:09):
I said, So I could either do more of these
and make more money. I could spend more time with
my little grandkids because I got one now, and you know,
I could learn to speak Spanish, or I could go
on a cruise. I mean, protect my ability to earn,
you know, based on my finished product. And I love it.
(28:30):
You know, I've been using AI. You know, you do something.
I wrote a book, let's say six months ago, and
you know, the book came out and the publisher called
me right away, goes Larry, it's for your books out
four days and they already hit the best seller list.
What's going on? Did you buy all the books? And
(28:52):
I'm like, no, Actually, if I would have thought of it,
I might have done that. I said, quite honestly, I used,
well then it was chat GBT right to do my
marketing plan, and did a marketing plan and I followed
it and literally in four days this book became a bestseller.
You know, I mean if ai, you know, if Chad
(29:12):
GBT is smarter than I am on creating book marketing plans,
which I never did before. I said, gotta love it.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, yeah, you'd be crazy not to use it. Really,
And I believe that book is called off script the
late Larry Nimer story. Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, it's off script Recipes for Success. But it's an
odd book because it's, you know, while I do the
TV stuff pretty good, since twelve, I've been aspiring chef.
So the book is breaking my life into like eight
different segments, because any kind of have my Brooklyn years,
(29:50):
my cable years, my e years, my rushing years, my
China years, et cetera. So I do the stories from
those times mixed with the recipes that inspired me during
each of those spaces. So it's an odd book, and
that is somewhere between a memoir and a cookbook, which
is different.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I will be the first to admit that. Well, Larry,
I know we're didding close on time, so I want
to ask you one last question before we let you go,
is what advice would you give to a young media
entrepreneur trying to create something into the streaming slash social
media environment.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Well, I mean, first and foremost, don't think you're ever
going to stop technology from marching on. I mean, that's
going to happen regardless. But you know, everybody, I think
most entrepreneurs, not just the media but anything, they get
caught up in this advice you know, follow your passion. Well,
you know what, most of the time people think that
passion is really something that was their hobby. And we
(30:50):
all have the same necessities of life. We got to
earn enough money to be able to eat and pay
the rent and write the kids or educate the kids
and stuff. So you know what I tell people, I said,
find something you're good at and then work your butt
off and become great at it. And then what we'll
do it it'll throw off enough money so that you'll have
the luxury of following your passion. Like for me, it's cooking.
(31:14):
I mean, you know, and if I didn't figure out
that I can make a living on this TV stuff
for media, I'd probably be in a you know, kitchen
of a restaurant somewhere, cleaning the pots and pans. You know,
just get get great at something, earn that living and
let and that will let you pursue your hobbies.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
That's solid and great advice. Larry, thank you so much
for coming on spending a few minutes with us today.
We really appreciate it. And again, I can't thank you
enough for spending some time with us today and our listeners.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Sure thanks for having me well.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Thank you and thank you for listening to this episode.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Forget, Let's Go. I forgotten Hollywood.
Let's go Bye Forgotten Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome back to Forget in Hollywood, the podcast where we
shine a spotlight on the untold stories, overlooked legends, and
behind the scenes magic that help shape the entertainment industry
we know today. I'm your host Doug has and today's
guest is someone who doesn't who didn't just witness the
evolution of Hollywood, he helped create a whole new chapter
(00:29):
in it. Larry Namer is a true media pioneer. A
Brooklyn born cable technician turned visionary entrepreneur, Larry co founded
E Entertainment Television, Yes, the E Network, and in doing so,
helped redefine celebrity culture, red carpet coverage in entertainment journalism
as we know it. But what you may not know
(00:50):
is the story behind the scenes. It struggles to risks,
the early skepticism, and a volment that made E a
household name today. Larry takes us back to the early
days of cable TV, shares the forgotten stories from Hollywood's
media transformation, and reflects on what has been lost and
found in the ever changing landscape of entertainment. So grab
(01:11):
your headphones and take a seat behind the curtain. This
has Forgotten Hollywood with Larry Namer. Larry, welcome to Forgotten Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Hi, thanks thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, it's a pleasure, and thank you for taking a
few minutes out of your busy schedule to be with
us today. We really appreciate that. And we'll just go
ahead and dive right in and said, so, Larry, maybe
take us a little back a little and what were
some of your earliest memories of Hollywood or entertainment where
you were growing up in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, you know, I grew up in what still is
not gentrified Brooklyn. I grew up in Coney Island, so
that's still a hood. And you know, just never in
a million years imagined I would end up in hollywod.
I can never imagine leaving Brooklyn in New York. And
(02:03):
you know, I it was kind of interesting because you know,
we went to public schools and three of my folks
that we were in the seventh grade, we all ended
up in Hollywood in fairly cethral I mean, very successful positions.
Stan Rogo went on to become, you know, the head
(02:26):
of children's programming at Disney, and Elliott Lewie went on
to become the head of music at Fox. And you know,
here are three kids from you know, the neighborhood in
the seventh grade together end up in Hollywood, and you know,
it did pretty well, just you know again, family, you
(02:47):
know had immigrant mentality, which is the kids need to
get civil service jobs so they could retire at sixty
five with a pension. So you know, no no thoughts
or aspirations at that point.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Great. So you co founded at a time when cable
TV was still considered probably the wild wild West. What
was the original vision and how did it differ from
what existed on TV.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
At the time. Well, you know, we started the original
name was called Movie Time, and then then you know,
which was we focused on the film industry. But then
we decided to be much broader and cover entertainment. Uh,
we changed the name to Eat. But Alan and I,
(03:36):
you know, I ended up in California to build a
cable system because I started out on the cable system side,
and Alan was my friend from New Jersey. And after
the company I worked for sold and they went back
to Canada, they wanted me to go to Canada and
I was like, no, no, no, I didn't go from you know,
(03:57):
New York, LA to go to Canada. I said, I'm
done with the cold. I like it out here, and
so Alan and I just started kicking around ideas and well,
when I was at when I came out to California,
I built Valley Cable, which was the first sixty one
channel two way cable system I ever built. And one
of the things that always fascinated me because now I
(04:20):
had everything reported to me, including programming. So for the
first time, I you know, well, your neighbors are going
to parties and premiers and all this everybody's part of Hollywood.
And I said, wow, that looks really cool. I want
to do that. And I talked to the studios and
they go, n you know, you're more like the phone
company or the gas company, your utility. We're not going
(04:43):
to invite you. And then I met someone, actually I
think from Universal, and you know, I said, I don't understand.
The most valuable marketing pool you have is a movie trailer.
But yet the only time I ever see a movie
trailer is when I'm in the movies. I said, wouldn't
you want me to see that when I'm at home
to make me want to go to the movies. And
(05:04):
they went, yeah, but it's very expensive to put two
minutes on TV. You know, we don't do that. I said, great,
I got sixty one channels, and I'm not sure what
you put on sixty one channels. I said, give me
the movie trailers and you know, I'll put them on
for free, but you put me on those lists and
he said sure. You know, but when we did audi
in surveys, you know, what's your favorite channel, They're going, oh,
(05:27):
I love CNN, I love ESPN, I love that trailer channel.
And I'm like, wow, that's really weird. I'm getting the
best two minutes of a then fifty million dollar movie
free and people absolutely love it. And I just kind
of filed that in the back of my head. But
then when the company sold out, Alan and I were
kicking around ideas and he said, you know, I've been
fascinated by MTV, and you know, wouldn't it be wonderful
(05:52):
if somebody did MTV of the movies? And I said,
wait a second. I said, you know, I had this
trailer channel ally Cable, and you know, when you think
about it, MTV got all these music videos for free,
and they stood a host in front of a green
screen and said hey, and Madonna has a new video.
(06:13):
I said, we can stand a host in front of
a green screen and say hey, Shw's has a new movie.
So you know that kind of started. You know how
we we were able to think that this could be
a successful venture because we would get all this great
content for free, just like MTV. But you know, we
(06:34):
wrote a business plan and we thought we were really smart,
and then you know, we just started getting hit with
the objections. You know, people going in and say, you
know what, it's an interesting idea, but you're not Fox,
you're not Disney, you're not Time Warner. People don't start
TV networks. You got to be a big media company
start a TV network. You know, no people are no
(06:56):
person has ever done it, no personal will ever do it.
And you know, a nice idea, but get out of here.
We were rejected over one hundred times. You know. Well,
we went and pitched and finally we found someone who
worked for a bond house on Wall Street and said hey,
I really love it and I want to do it.
And we were like, well, you know, these things cost
(07:19):
somewhere between sixty and one hundred million dollars to start.
Could you give us more like one hundred and then
he said, oh, no, no, no, I'm only allowed to sign
for two and a half. And I was like, what
am I going to do with two and a half.
I can't even buy the cameras And he said, well
that's all I could sign for. So Alan and I
just said, you know what, we're smart, we'll figure it out.
(07:39):
So we literally made a deal. We took two and
a half million dollars. And I had a friend who
was teaching radio television film at University of Texas in Austin,
and I called them up and said, Brian, to have
kids who meet summer intern jobs. I got like all
these openings and he said, yeah, we had trouble placing
this year. I said, well, great, send me all you got. So,
(08:01):
you know, people don't realize because he turned into a monster.
You know, it's one hundred and forty two countries and
arguably the biggest influence of pop culture in the world.
But he started with eleven employees and thirty one interns.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Wow, amazing, So learly, what were some of the biggest
challenges trying to get the talent? Convinced that a twenty
four hour entertainment news network would work well.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
We we started out, we spent a lot of our
money and a lot of our time finding hosts. Yeah,
we don't have enough money to affect you know, if
I do fancy programming or anything like that. The biggest
thing we could spend on would be picking hosts. And
people always say, oh, you guys were very lucky. You
(08:51):
had all those great hosts. You know, we had Greg
Kaneer who went on Academy Awards, Julie Moran went to
be the first woman on Wild World of Sports, and
Katie Wegner did Lifestyles Are Famous, and Mark DeCarlo did Studs.
That was not an accident. That was very deliberate. Again,
with very limited money, we just went crazy on saying
(09:12):
we got to find hosts that people love or hate,
but they got to feel something from. So we actually
put god, I think it was seventy two hundred people
on tape to get the first five hosts, so that
that was not an accident. So you know, we did that,
and you know, we started by having the host introduced
(09:33):
the movie trailers, you know, very MTV like, and then
when you know we we launched. You know, it's funny
because we launched with this low amount of money, and
we couldn't even buy professional equipment. We bought like used
equipment that people using for making sales, training tapes and stuff.
(09:54):
So our stuff looked very pirate. It looked very different,
and you know that turned out to be fortuitous because
people are like, oh my god, this is so different
than we've seen. It seems like pirate TV. Well, in
the fact, it was pirate. But you know, as soon
as we went on the air, everybody said, oh my god,
(10:15):
this is what you wanted to do. You should have
told us we wouldn't given you money three years ago.
And we grew in the first year. I think we
ended up in fourteen different countries, which was unthinkable you
know back in that time.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Wow, that's amazing. How did you handle some of the
early criticism, skepticism from Hollywood insiders.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Well, everybody was like, you know, they were laughing at
us and stuff like that. I mean, we applied the
first year, we applied for credentials to go to the
oscars and we got rejected. They said, oh, you're some
dumb little cable network. We're not giving you anything. So again,
you know, being kind of scrapped Brooklyn. Whatever. We literally
(11:02):
climbed over the fence. We snuck in. We were on
the red carpet and we were there for almost half
an hour before we got caught and they escorted us
out unceremoniously. But you know, we had all this footage
and the real difference was, you know, you had things
like Entertainment Tonight and Access Hollywood, and they were very stiff.
(11:25):
It would be so mister Cruz, tell us about your
next movie, you know, and we kind of, you know, Alan,
I shared this thing like, Hollywood is funny stuff. Don't
try and make believe it's rocket science. And you know,
we'd be on the carpet going, oh, Tom, those are
amazing shoes. Where do you get those? You know, what
do you do with the kids on the weekend. So
(11:46):
we just took this whole different attitude and it just
the audience recognized it and it resonated, and you know,
and that kind of led to the way red carpets
were covered after that, and then when the studios began
to see the kind of reaction that we got from
the way we were covering versus you know, the way
(12:08):
everybody else was. You know, all of a sudden they
were like, hey, do you want the Wayne's Brothers on?
Do you want these on? But I think the real
turning point was we there was a famous actor in
Odd Coupled, Jack lemon Pack, was known for not really
doing a lot of marketing publicity stuff, and you know,
(12:30):
we asked the manager if he would come on before
some project that he was doing, and it was like, no,
Jack doesn't like to do that. And I was like, well,
what does Jack like to do? And he was like, well,
you know, Jack is very private and he stays home.
He loves playing the piano and stuff like that. I said, okay,
tell you what I got twenty four hours a day
to Phil. I said, I'll put a p on the
(12:52):
set and let Jack come and play the piano for
an hour. And he goes and nobody will talk to
him or ask him questions. I go, like, guarantee it, nobody,
just play the piano and leave. And you know, Jack
came and I'm very wary waiting, you know, going, these
guys can't be serious that he's going to talk to me.
(13:12):
And you know, I just told the crew I said, nobody,
just let Jack play. And so Jack started playing the
piano looking around waiting for somebody to you know, break
the silence and then realize that we actually weren't going
to do it, and he just got really comfortable and
just turned to the camera and started talking and all
the stuff that people wanted to ask him for years,
(13:34):
he just started talking about it. And you know, then
word got out around town. They go, there's cable network
called I mean, we were still movie Time at that time.
Got Jack Lemon to come on and talk, and then
everybody was calling us. They were going, you know, so
(13:55):
and so wants a hot could you, you know, could
you could you put someone on as a guest host,
and you know, we had all these amazing guest hosts
and so that we actually became Hollywood Channel. And what
was interesting is even though Hollywood was kind of the
entertainment center of the world, there were no TV networks
that were centered in Hollywood. Oddly we were the first one.
(14:17):
And you know, so we talked to the Hollywood Chamber
of Commerce and tell them what we're doing, and they
embraced it. They said, wow, this is amazing. We finally
got a TV channel here. So we would get invited
to all their events and stuff. So we became kind
of the insiders.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
That's great, well kind of piggybacking off of that. So
did you anticipate how influential you would become for the
Red Carpets, Reality TV and celebrity news.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Not in a million years. You know, we always know,
We said, look, how hard is it to figure out
that people around the world love Hollywood, Hollywood gossip, Hollywood
stories and stuff like that, but not you know, and
Alan I to you know, East Coast kids and you know,
playing in the world that was meant for big, big
(15:06):
media companies only, and you know, and people tried to
crush us. You know, people were offended by you know,
these two idiots that were out changing the world. You know,
and Fox was not happy with us Home Shopping Network,
which was huguely successful at the time, I had an
amazing amount of money. They decided they were going to
(15:29):
launch their own and they made an announcement to their
launching an entertainment channel just like us. But then after
their announcement, they realized we already had the backing of
all the studios and all the cable operators and they
literally had a you know, with their their head and there.
But you know, had to back off and tell the
(15:51):
Wall Street Journal that they decided not to go forward
with it.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That's great. So your career spans, Dick, Are there any
personalities or moments in Hollywood history that you don't feel
get their recognition that they deserve.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Well, you know, I I think there's there's a lot
of stuff there. I think, you know, I mean, my favorite,
one of my favorite people of all time is Greg
can here, you know, and uh, you know when we
you know, we started, you know with Greg introducing movie trailers,
and you know, then then we created talk Soup namely
(16:29):
for Greg. And you know, I think he's he's an
amazing actor, he's an amazing person, He's wonderful of allon
and I have an event to celebrate some anniversary of
the no matter where Greg is, he shows up and
stuff like that. So yeah, you know Greg, and yeah,
but there have been so many people. I mean, we
(16:51):
were one of the first people who recognized the Waynes
brothers well before they were the Waynes Brothers, when you know,
it was just one way in and you know, folks
like that, and yeah, there's just so many people with
such incredible talent. I mean, we missed a bunch we
(17:11):
were nimble enough to recover. You know, when Alan was
friends with this woman who was teaching dancing the lake
a cheerleaders name, you know, and he goes, Paula wants
to come on, and I'm like, you know, what what
are we gonna do with not a cheerleading channel? And
Paula came on before the first album and stuff like that.
(17:34):
You know, Paula Abdul Obviously paul do really well. You know,
so people like got Ryan Seacrest. We interviewed a few
months and we were like, you know, Ryan, you know
you're a nice boy, but we're not sure this is
for you. Uh And then finally we said I'll want
the hell, you know. And Ryan went on to do
pretty good. And yeah, just just so many stories. I mean,
(17:59):
we we were so, you know, twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week, and now he is one hundred
and forty two countries. We had a lot of time
to be whimsical.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Sure, so you've seen the entertainment industry evolve. Is there
any old school Hollywood values that you think have been lost?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I think a lot of old school up you know. Well, first,
you know, Hollywood was early Hollywood, very innovative place. I mean,
were people there that were not afraid to take chances.
They put their money where their mouth is. It's Hollywood
has become very corporate, a public company mentality. It's you know,
(18:49):
we got to report quarterly results, so we got a
lot of chances. Very different than the way it was
than it used to be. I mean, when you look
at the fact that it was, I thought absolutely clear
that the world when digital came around, that the world
was going to go to streaming. You know, you look
(19:11):
at it and you say a simple equation, do you
want to watch what you want to watch when you
want to watch it, or do you want to watch
when NBC wants you to watch one they want you
to watch it. We all knew the answer, and but yet,
you know, people stuck with linear television networks. You know,
(19:32):
and then now you know, you look at comcasts looking
to divest the linear Now, you know, you should have
been done fifteen years ago, at ten years ago at least,
because there was no question where the audience was going,
and you know it was not towards linear, and you know,
you it just made no sense at all to stay
(19:52):
in that format. But then again, you know, you talk
to some of the CEOs the big cable networks or
the cable groups, and they were like, well, you know,
in order for us to move from linear to digital,
we'd have to write off seven billion dollars in equipment
that you're no longer need. And I don't want to
walk into a boardroom telling them that I'm you know,
(20:13):
writing down seven billion dollars. I want to retire in
two years. Let my predecessor, you know, or you know,
deal with that issue and stuff. So you kind of
lost a lot of that entrepreneurial spirit. Like I say,
you know, you just look at what's happened, and you know,
fighting digital music and things like that. You know, technology
(20:37):
marches on whether you like it or not. You know,
I mean, I think we're seeing the same thing with
AI now, you know where people are just going, oh,
that's horrible, We're not going to let that happen. Well,
it's going to happen whether you like it or not. Right,
you know, how do you play in the game, How
do you protect your rights? How do you how do
you use this to be more creative or more you know,
(21:01):
to get more done than you ever did before. And
you know, you got to adopt and that's what early
Hollywood did, and then it kind of lost its way,
you know, sometime in the early two thousands.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, So how does the global entertainment landscape compare to Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Well, you know, you go back and you look at
why Hollywood became Hollywood. You know, you had all these
amazing immigrants, you know, I mean these and they came
and you know, they had a vision and they were
entrepreneurial and stuff. But you know, you go back, Hollywood
was the place you had to come if you wanted
to make any visual entertainment. You needed big sound stages,
(21:45):
and you needed very expensive equipment. I think, I think
when I started it, you know, good camera was like
two hundred fifty thousand dollars and it's not as good
as my iPhone. But you look at you literally, you say,
you know, as technology keeps bringing down the barriers to
entry and bringing down the costs that less and less.
(22:09):
So you know, it used to be Germany would take
how you know, a Hollywood TV show and dub it
and you know it was in English and they dub
it in German. And the price has got enough they said, hey,
we could make stuff here in Germany in our language,
and Russia and every place else. So you know, we
were probably one of the first, if not the first,
(22:31):
to recognize that Hollywood stops becoming the production center but
really becomes it's a level of quality, it's a measure
of creativity stuff there, and that you've got to really
understand that video entertainment's going to be made literally anywhere,
(22:54):
you know, and you look at it. Now, I could
go to Africa with my iPhone and make them. That's
as good as something that I could have done when
I first got into business. That would have cost me
millions of dollars. I mean now are ay I you know,
graphics and effects and things that cost me tens of thousands,
(23:15):
if not millions of dollars now costs me pennies. So
you know, technology changes everything. You're never gonna stop it.
You know when in the early days of Hollywood, you know,
you look at this country and you know we had
horse farm you know, horse ranchers and everything like they
(23:36):
wanted everybody to have horse and buggy and they weren't
real happy when Henry Ford started, you know, mass producing cars.
You know, I just take people, I say, come to
the window and me. Let's look out. Tell me how
many horse and buggies you see? And tell me how
many cars you see? You know, we need laws, we
need regulations, we need things that stop bad people from
(23:57):
doing bad things, to stop the technology.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
That is so true. So Larry, looking back, what's something
you would have done differently if you were now just
now launching.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
E Well, I you know, if I would have launched
it today, I would I mean, I would never launch
a linear television network. I would never launch a twenty
four hour day network because that's not the way people
consume media. True, So we would have gone nonlinear. I mean,
don't forget. We were one of the first to really
move to the digital world with the online you know,
(24:35):
which was the precursor to a lot of these streamers.
And you know, I love short form. I think the
attention span is you know, clearly moving the shorter and shorter.
I mean, and we've seen tiktoks and now he's article
dramas and stuff like that, so we would we would
start more that way. I mean. Actually, I'm helping Alan,
(24:59):
my partner, Alan Will. It's just started a channel called Versa,
which is for these short films, and I'm helping them
with global strategy and stuff like that. And you know,
it's amazing that you know, people are laughing that it's
you know, cheesy and stuff like that. But that's what
the audience wants to watch. They want to watch it
(25:21):
on their cell phone. I mean, we started have a
company in China and one of the shows we do
is called Hello Hollywood, which is we look at Hollywood.
But how does the Chinese audience want to what is
it they want to know? I mean here, you know,
it's like, well, you know TMZ. You know, let's catch
someone cheating on their wife and we'll ruin their wife forever,
(25:43):
and it's much more gentle. So we started Hello Hollywood,
and but we realized that seventy two percent of the
people who were watching our stuff in China were watching
us on a cell phone, and we just said, why
are we shooting horizontal people watching it vertical, you know,
(26:06):
And so we started shooting vertical there years ago and stuff,
and it made more sense because that's why people watching it.
I mean, even to the point where you know, here
you do final Let It on a fifty five inch
television monitor, we were doing final Let It on a
five inch iPhone.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Well how times have changed.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, but that's the thing you gotta not everything lasts forever,
and I have to I mean now the whole backlash
to AI and stuff. It's an amazing tool. I mean
when I got in the business, I always use this
as an example. If I would write a script, you know,
(26:49):
do it on a typewriter, take me three months, and
used to have this little bottle of white out, and
you know you made a mistake and do it. It looked
like garbage. But time you finished it because he had
all these little white spots.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Sure, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And then the laptop came around and word processing, and
well you take me three months, was now taking me
five days. And you know, and now Ami comes. If
you were to ask me to say, Larry, could you
write a a preliminary plan on you know, doing a
(27:24):
TV service, you know, on coffee cups, you know, make
up anything, and you should take me five days to
do the research through the competitive analysis, to do a budget,
to do a little PowerPoint. It now takes me thirty seconds, right,
takes an I got to clean it up. It's never
one hundred percent, sure needs the human touch, but it
(27:47):
takes me an hour I said, so, you know, if
I could get paid the same thing that used to
take me five days, I can now get paid, you know,
for that thing done in an hour. I said, how
could I not love that? I mean, as human beings,
we all have a limited time on this planet, and
time is the most valuable you know, asset we have.
(28:09):
I said, So I could either do more of these
and make more money. I could spend more time with
my little grandkids because I got one now, and you know,
I could learn to speak Spanish, or I could go
on a cruise. I mean, protect my ability to earn,
you know, based on my finished product. And I love it.
(28:30):
You know, I've been using AI. You know, you do something.
I wrote a book, let's say six months ago, and
you know, the book came out and the publisher called
me right away, goes Larry, it's for your books out
four days and they already hit the best seller list.
What's going on? Did you buy all the books? And
(28:52):
I'm like, no, Actually, if I would have thought of it,
I might have done that. I said, quite honestly, I used,
well then it was chat GBT right to do my
marketing plan, and did a marketing plan and I followed
it and literally in four days this book became a bestseller.
You know, I mean if ai, you know, if Chad
(29:12):
GBT is smarter than I am on creating book marketing plans,
which I never did before. I said, gotta love it.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, yeah, you'd be crazy not to use it. Really,
And I believe that book is called off script the
late Larry Nimer story. Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, it's off script Recipes for Success. But it's an
odd book because it's, you know, while I do the
TV stuff pretty good, since twelve, I've been aspiring chef.
So the book is breaking my life into like eight
different segments, because any kind of have my Brooklyn years,
(29:50):
my cable years, my e years, my rushing years, my
China years, et cetera. So I do the stories from
those times mixed with the recipes that inspired me during
each of those spaces. So it's an odd book, and
that is somewhere between a memoir and a cookbook, which
is different.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I will be the first to admit that. Well, Larry,
I know we're didding close on time, so I want
to ask you one last question before we let you go,
is what advice would you give to a young media
entrepreneur trying to create something into the streaming slash social
media environment.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Well, I mean, first and foremost, don't think you're ever
going to stop technology from marching on. I mean, that's
going to happen regardless. But you know, everybody, I think
most entrepreneurs, not just the media but anything, they get
caught up in this advice you know, follow your passion. Well,
you know what, most of the time people think that
passion is really something that was their hobby. And we
(30:50):
all have the same necessities of life. We got to
earn enough money to be able to eat and pay
the rent and write the kids or educate the kids
and stuff. So you know what I tell people, I said,
find something you're good at and then work your butt
off and become great at it. And then what we'll
do it it'll throw off enough money so that you'll have
the luxury of following your passion. Like for me, it's cooking.
(31:14):
I mean, you know, and if I didn't figure out
that I can make a living on this TV stuff
for media, I'd probably be in a you know, kitchen
of a restaurant somewhere, cleaning the pots and pans. You know,
just get get great at something, earn that living and
let and that will let you pursue your hobbies.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
That's solid and great advice. Larry, thank you so much
for coming on spending a few minutes with us today.
We really appreciate it. And again, I can't thank you
enough for spending some time with us today and our listeners.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Sure thanks for having me well.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Thank you and thank you for listening to this episode.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Forget, Let's Go. I forgotten Hollywood.
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