Ep. 223 | Dr. David Walton | Green Beret and Author - Former Action Guys Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, it was Welcome to the former rest Guys podcast.

(00:02):
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(00:22):
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started yet. I do want to officially start.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Started the episode, so David, doctor David Walton, I will
use your correct title at the beginning here doctor, doctor
of education.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Correct, that's right, yea edd and leadership of the concentration
in criculum design and development, and you full blown.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
And you did that through the Army right when you
were Special Forces. They moved you over because they wanted
to start an education like brand.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I did well, I got put in charge. So first off,
let's recognize who you're talking to here. I barely graduated college.
My freshman year of college, I had a one point
six gpah, I mean as close to a failing out
as you can get. And but by the grace of God,
I stayed in. But on my last tour on active

(01:25):
duty at the Special Warfare Center for BRAG, I was
put in charge of the ARSOF education programs. And again,
I'm an operations guy, had no business being in charge education.
And the command in general was like, you get smart
on education. So I was like, okay, So I went
and got my degree in education. So I happened to
use a ton of it while I was on active duty.
We were I mean I was in the schoolhouse and

(01:46):
we were doing you know, strategic planning and criclum design
and development. So I put it into practice right away.
So it turned out to be not something that I
knew that I had a propensity for or would enjoy.
But it turned out that I use on the job,
and so yeah, that's what it is.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, good curriculum can really change a course, right, you know,
like if it's mismanaged, if it's like you have one
course in front of another, it sounds stupid. Like I
know people that are listening to that may may think
that sounds stupid, but I remember we did a we
did a very deliberate method. I was on the eleventh
U in two thousand and fourteen fifteen, and the me

(02:25):
and the air officer for my Anglicode attachment made like
a very I don't know, it was very We made
a curriculum for a JFO course a joint Fire's observer.
So basically, for those that don't know what that is,
that's bringing in people that are maybe untrained observers or
they're trained in like artillery, and now we're going to
teach them how to talk to aircraft, identify targets, read

(02:47):
a map for working with aircraft. And you know, we
had nothing to do. So we're like, hey, we normally
teach us JFO course to our own guys and like
other units that may request us, like division assets and
stuff like that we would request us to teach. So
we're like, well, let's start a course on ship. And
I remember like we were very deliberate about how we

(03:08):
did it. It was like hey, time me, Like we
made this PowerPoint. We were using the same powerpoints that's
been used forever. Let's go through and actually clean it up,
like the slide that will eventually get to to correct
that spelling or the one that doesn't wise it in there,
we'll take it out eventually, Like, let's go through and
clean it up. And we cleaned it up, and I
remember like, hey, for each lesson, let's like run it

(03:29):
with a stopwatch and get the actual time that we're
giving the class and then like arranging everything to work
so that people can be on ship. And so it's
like that's at a micro level of the things that
you probably learned in school, but it's important.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
I think of it as like storytelling, Like everyone knows
a guy who who can tell a good story, right,
tells a good war story, and it's a skill, Like
it's like it's a it's a thing you got to
learn how to do. So there's there's sort of two
levels of that. There's a guy that has an interesting
thing to say, and there's a guy that says it
in an interesting way. Right, So that's that's that's the

(04:04):
instructor and the good curriculum. If you have a guy
who can say things in an interesting way and it
is an interesting story, that's a winner. Right, that's a
that's a that's a Poultry Prize winning book or an
Oscar uh amy Amy winning uh film. But so in
the classroom, you want really good instructors and you want

(04:24):
really good curriculum. And if you can get the two
of those together, man, that's that's powerful. And we've all
been there. We've all been in classes where we had
a really good instructor and a really good curriculum and
you're like, it's like it doesn't feel like learning, it's effortless,
it's it's it's it's enjoyable.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
So and there's a science to it, right, just like
storytelling there's a there's a there's a there's an art
to it and uh and curriculum is the same way
and uh And you know there's there's classes, there's lesson plans,
and then there's curriculum where you weave different classes together
and and when you when it comes together. Man, it's
a thing of beauty. And and to be a to
be a benefactor of it, a victim of if it's

(05:00):
bad is painful, and if it's good, it's like, oh man,
like I really enjoyed that program. I really learned a
ton And you don't even realize that you learned it.
You just like you were just in the room and
when it all happened. So yeah, so I got to
do that. And and and it's a it's a it's
almost you know, my wife's a teacher, retired recently. My
daughter is a teacher now. And like you see it

(05:23):
when you see when you teach an eighth an eight
year old how to do math, that's like dark witchcraft.
Like it's it's unbelievable. Uh, and so so like at
my level, at this graduate level, it's you know, it's
it's less impressive you when you do teach a learn
how to teach a kid and teach them how to
do like math. Oh my god, that's a that is

(05:45):
that is powerful stuff. So it's it's a real skill.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, putting it all together, it's it's important. I thought,
you know, like that's one of those moments when I
was on ship. Again, that's like, you got to make
do with what you have, and we did like a
really good I was really proud of what we did
because we had we had the pilots on ship, we
had artillery guys on ship. So when we had a
specific portion that we were teaching or that we were practicing,

(06:10):
like doing radio drills and stuff like that, we would
bring down a Harrier pilot. We would bring up one
of the the FDC for the artillery so that they
got practice bust the rust a little bit. You're sitting
on ship, there's nothing going on, and it gets them
to bust the rust a little bit going through the
con procedures and stuff like that, and also enables us
to teach these new guys on how to do these

(06:32):
things if they were ever called upon. So I really
enjoyed that. I thought that was a really successful thing.
But you again, again, that's like that's like at the
very point end right there where you're talking about courses
for like selection courses for the the schoolhouse there the
what's it, the Special Special Forces Warfare special.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Warfare Center in school. Yeah, special Warfare Center in school. Okay, yeah,
but what you're talking about though what you're described being
and you you experienced the firsthand, so you'll be able
to attest to this is the is the the the
the skill set and the power of good teaching. And
here's the reality. Here's the secret, sauce is that's what
Green Berets are really supposed to do. They're supposed to

(07:14):
be good teachers. Everyone thinks, you know, the g Watt
has totally has totally muddied the true identity of what
what a Green Bray does. Green Berets are designed to
do unconventional warfare. They're gonna they're gonna take a small element,
they're gonna you're gonna be deployed behind enemy lines and
you're gonna link up with partisan forces and you're gonna
create a guerrilla fighting force that's unconventional warfare. And in

(07:37):
order to do that, you have to be a really
skilled communicator and teacher. You're you're literally gonna be teaching
classes in you know, small unit tactics, advanced infantry stuff like.
So if you're not a good teacher, you cannot be
a good Green Beret. And and the g Y was
was at least what made it into the zeitgeist was
direct action, you know, flip down your your nods and

(07:57):
free fall out of the back of the aircraft and
go do cool guy stuff. Man, that was like four
percent of what we did. Ninety six percent was teaching,
you know, teaching and organizing. And that ain't sexy, man,
That is boring. That doesn't look good on Instagram. But
that's really what Green Brays do. And so you need
a different kind of operator for that. You got to
be a little bit more mature. You have to be

(08:17):
an effective communicator. You have to you know, an understanding
of human dynamics, and you got to like like I
remember when I first showed up to my first ODA
and I was like, oh cool, I'm gonna be Green Bray.
I'm gonna do cool guy stuff.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
I made.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
It was like I made it. And it was like, hey, hey,
welcome to the team, captain. You're gonna review some pois
for the next you know, programs of instruction for the
next two months. And I was like, hey, like, where's
my uh, you know, where's my weapon? Like, here's your weapon.
It's a pen and a computer. Get after it. So
so like that's the reality and and there's real power
in that, Like that's what Green Brays do. Like, we're

(08:52):
a force multiplier. If I could take twelve Green Brays
and put them behind enemy lines and build a partisan
force and an underground net work and and start to
you know, get get some gorilla warfare going. I can
take twelve guys and turn them into five hundred fighters,
that's powerful. Twelve guys kicking in the doors is cool,
but that's only twelve guys. If I can turn those
twelve guys into five hundred man that's that's a force multipart.

(09:15):
That's a strategic asset. That's that is in the in
in in the grand strategy. That's a force that has
to be wrecking with. Like so if you're Russia and
China and your O enemies, you you have to reckon
the fact that that there are twelve guys here that
are gonna can drop into your backyard and in a
few months we'll have a whole battalion working against you.
One that that's so you've got it. Now you have

(09:37):
to dedicate assets to that. You've got to have a
plan to counter that. Uh. If it's and if there's
one thing we've learned over the last twenty years, the
GYT is that insurgencies are powerful. You know, we we
damn near got our asses kicked in two countries because
we couldn't do counterinsurgency very well. So so I think
we're sitting on the golden era, on the edge of
a golden area era for green Berets. The next twenty

(09:59):
years are going to be an are going to prove
that green Berets are the force of choice, unlike Marsk,
which we'll talk about in a little bit here.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, I was gonna say there's been some mission creep
right from other units. I mean I was an advisor
and you know military advisor and singing in twenty thirteen
in Afghanistan. So I was the guy training and you know,
went through like a six month advisor team like course
that the yeah, that the Marine Corps had had set up,

(10:31):
and the course was okay, I was I personally was disappointed.
I mean I was used to going to the field.
I was a Jaytach at the time too, right, and
I had just become a jaytack and I was expecting
to do all this like fire support training to get
ready to go to Afghanistan. And the advisor's course didn't

(10:52):
have any like specific advisor fire support guy training, and
I was like, man, I spent six months of not
dropping any bombs, not not talking any aircraft, you know,
and now I'm heading off to Afghanistan. And it was like,
this is kind of crazy like that, And so for
me it was not as great, I guess for the
actual advisor stuff. We did some language stuff and we

(11:14):
did some different things. But anyways, what I'm getting at
is the mission creep. Right now, the Army has an
advisor battalion, right the s FAB or whatever they call it.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, fa, Yeah, there's a couple. There's a couple of
them their brigade level. Uh, and they're they're good, they're
they're so okay. So let's let's frame this. There is
way more advisory work than there are people to do
the advising, So let's put it that way. And no
one is in a better position to produce advisors than

(11:44):
the US. We we you know, for we can lament
all we want about about the decline of the military
and wokeism and and uh and the and the the
loss of lethality and all that business. And there's there's
merit in that argument. We can talk about that, but
but our professional education system in the military, in particular

(12:05):
for non commissioned officers, produces unbelievably high quality UH leaders
leaders you know, teach teachers, coaches, mentors, the standard NCO
stuff teach, coach and mentor. So we the US is
uniquely positioned to provide forces to do that. Even if

(12:25):
they're not green berets or s fabs, you could you
could probably cobble together a pretty good unit there. So
what's also interesting about the advisor mission is that it
is a low cost, high return on investment. You can
take a couple of dudes and send them out and
it doesn't have to be unconventional warfare. It can just
be a you know, a jaset or a or or

(12:45):
you know, a more traditional conventional advising mission like the
ones that you participated in, and you get a pretty
good return on investment. And so I don't think that
there's a competition for that, and I and I think
that's the future of warfare is small, specialized surgical application
of national military power for a larger return on investment.

(13:09):
That's what that's why soft is so attractive. Soft is
soft is attractive in that way. Cyber is attractive in
that way, and space is while not inexpensive, it is
also attractive in that way. So the soft cyber space
triad is one that gets cited often. So advising and
assisting like that, I think that's the wave of the

(13:30):
future because you see such a large return on investment.
So I don't I don't get the sense that Special
Forces sees that as a mission creep against us. But well,
here's what's interesting, though, is that we've been we green
Braves have been doing that for so long that we
have almost have a corner on the market. Seals don't
want to do that mission. They're not designed for that mission.

(13:52):
They don't assess and select for that mission. What do
seals do. Seals assess and select for a maritime direct
action mission that takes somebody who is hyper physically fit,
a little bit aggressive, younger. We've got to be a
little bit more, you know, physically resilient, so so excused
towards young and and that is not the profile that

(14:13):
fits well in the advisor and assist, you know, alone
and unafraid oftentimes I won't say unsupervised, but less supervised.
You know, you're giving a commander's intent and an OP
fund and told to move out, you know, send you
get sent to a you know, a valley and you
you you know, you you you pick a stand and
you got to figure it out. So green brays are

(14:34):
uniquely suited to do that. Uh, Marsk is is the
interesting sort of in between. Right. So MARSK has a
maritime component because they're they're marines, and there's a there's
a you know, an amphibious component to that. And you're
you're on boats like as you said before, and and
so you're a natural fit for that. But you can't

(14:54):
do what the seals do because that's a unique that's
a unique mission set. Okay, Uh, this can't do what
the green brays do. But the green Brays can't do
what the seals that you don't want to send them
an s fot A to go do an oil rig
takedown or a ship underway assault. You can send seals
do that because they're especially trains for that. Okay. So
so we I can't take seals and have them do

(15:16):
a Green Brays do. I tan't great tank green brays
and have them do a seals do. So those are
protected missions now, right, The Maritime Direct Action Mission is
protected for seals and the unconventional warfare mission is protected
for green braids if such a thing existed. It doesn't.
But let's just for for conversation's sake, Okay, So where
do where does Marstock fit there? Marstock's in the middle.
They're a light reaction, direct action force, but not quite

(15:40):
as good as seals. They can do advice and assist,
but not quite as good as green Brays. So what
do they do? And so this is interesting. Actually I
talk with with Marsock fairly often, and I sit with
the the officers and they graduate their version of the
Q course and they come in and I sit with
them and I do a series of briefings with them.

(16:02):
But one of the things that we talk about is
is MARSOC culture and what is the what is the
future of Marsax. So I'll ask these young captains, right,
these are the these are the facemen of the unit,
fresh out out of the schoolhouse, getting ready to go
to their their msots, and I'll ask them what what
Marsock's mission and the like? Like good Marines do, They'll

(16:22):
brace their backs and they'll say, Marsto's can That's the
full spectrum of Joint Special operation. It's like, okay, now
that's what everyone does. Like you could say the same
thing of civil affairs of sciops, Like you're not telling me.
And so we get down to that. We have this
conversation is what is Marsock's unique market proposition? What can
MARSOC do that only Marstok can do, only Green Brays

(16:43):
can do UW, only seals can do maritime direct action?
What can MARSTOCK do? And they cannot answer that question.
And it's like, ooh, so so that's interesting, right, Okay,
that's the that's at the lowest tactical level. These guys
aren't having men do team yet, so maybe they're not
representative of mars So so now let's look at the
highest levels of MARSK. How does Marstok the command think

(17:06):
about MARSK. And this is interesting. In September of this year,
September of twenty fourth, so just a few months ago,
MARSK commander issued a what do you call it a
decision memorandum, a decision memorandum on boots. Okay, now bear
with me here, Okay, we're making a massive leap here.

(17:28):
They MARSOK issued this decision memorandum on the use of
non non standard boots, and they said something along the
lines of the use of non standard boots in Marstock
raiders detracts from the Marsok mission. You know something blah
blah blah. The real official bureaucrasts language here. And it

(17:51):
was like they and they said, you know, essentially no
more non standard, but it detracts from the mission. And
I thought to myself, first off, if your mission is
so impacted by non standard boots, I would argue that
your mission isn't very good. Okay, so let's start there.
But then the second thing that they said, and this
is the most telling part, is they said that what

(18:16):
in essence, Marsk or Marsk raiders are not special. They
just conduct special operations. And I was like, oh, man,
that is real.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
That was from the command.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
That's from the command. That was from the command. Wow,
mar sock here, I have my notes here, Marsk Decision
Memorandum twenty four Dash twelve and and and it was
and it was literally said in there they are Marsok
raiders are not special. They just conduct special operations. And
I was like, oh, so let's think about that. Let's
think about how that impacts what a recruiting line right,

(18:53):
like like the the entire So, so here's the here's
the problem the marines have and you will you can
you can answer to this. You can speak for the
Marine Corps here. Marines believe that every marine is special.
Therefore no marine can be more special than another marine. Right,
every marine is elite, therefore nobody can be more elite

(19:14):
than a marine. Okay, so now you have a more
elite force Marsock inside of the Marine Corps. And this
has been Marsock's problem from the get go is by
because the Marine Corps ethos does not allow it, you
cannot have special marines. So it's like, okay, maybe there's
some value in that, Maybe there's some value in everyone's elite.

(19:36):
There's not, but let's assume there is. So now let's
look at how that gets applied though. And you've you've
had many many Marine Special operators on your podcast and
they've almost all universally echoed this is that when you
volunteer to go to become a CSO, become a critical
Skills operator, you accept a tremendous amount of personal career risk.

(20:00):
Number One, you if you're in the fleet and you
raise your hand and say I want to go to Marsak.
Your your immediate chanting command immediately thinks two things. Number One,
who does he think he is? Does he think he's
better than us? So you're immediately you're a little bit
of a priya. And number two, uh, is he thinks
that guy is not loyal to the Marine Corps. So

(20:21):
so immediately you're you're sort of put on an island.
And I've heard this echoed by many many marines that
would be amazed.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
I know personally guys that have said the same thing,
especially in the recon community. If you if you want
to go from like recon to another unit, and that's
not just Marsak, but to go and try to try
out for another other unit, they get that mentality like
who the fuck? Oh you're fucking cool? Huh, and like

(20:49):
God forbid if you fail that course and come back,
which all those courses have high failure rates. You know,
these are these are recon marines that have gone through
one of the probably the toughest selections in the military.
But that doesn't mean they're going to pass the next selection.
So yeah, you're right, I think first depending on and
I hope that you know, I hope that that changes,

(21:10):
but I don't think it will because you're gonna have
certain personalities error. And but yeah, that is true. I've
heard that from multiple guys that were in rehad specifically.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
So now these guys, now, these guys are are they
get and and the way that you have made the
way that in the marine, I say you like you
like it's your fault. The way the Marines have set
up the career pipeline is you only get one shot.
You get one shot at A and S one shot
and if you don't make it, like you said, you
go back to the unit. And this is a unit
who you who in the in their eyes, you just

(21:40):
told them, fuck you, I'm better than you and I'm
out of here. And now you're back there. It's like, man,
like you have burned just by raising your hand, you
have by default burned all those bridges. Now you've got
to go back to that. So it's it's almost like
it's a It creates a toxic culture fun to get.
I mean, it's really really bad. And I've had this discussion.
So so one thing that that that SOCOM has not

(22:04):
done is release what's called the I s T data,
the inter Service Transfer data and what the interservice transfer
is is special Forces assessment. Selection will take recruits from
any branch, any service. There's a process you have to
go through, and it's different for different branches. But but
I have every indication that we are seeing the largest

(22:25):
ist movement uh in in decades right now because of that. Specifically,
FUM marines and marines have one of the highest selection
rates because they know that they've got to make it
or they're done, so they come. When they come to
that space, they do very very well. They're higher even

(22:46):
than guys coming from the Ranger regiment. So it's a
very strong population and they they and so we're getting
so hear me out, we're getting more marines than ever
and they're doing very very well. So it's like I
had a guy from Fifth Group tell me that they
have a company that's like a it's like a marine company.
It's like half of the dudes there used to be in.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
I've heard people say the hardest part about selection is
your first four years in the Marine Corps. That's like
a common phrase that I've heard people say.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
True. So so those guys are dying to get to
leave because because they they they know that they know
that they if they if they don't make it, they're
they're they're going back to their dead men walking and
uh and if even if they do make it, they're
gonna be told by their own command. I have the
memoryandum right here that says you are not special, you
only do special operations. It's like, so, so I've got

(23:35):
diminished career opportunities if I'm a Cso I've got I've
looked at by the by the big core as a
as a trader. Uh, you know, less than and so
like why why what? What? What's the payout to me?
Why why would I bother staying here. Yeah, it's gonna
be a big problem for the Marines in the next
five to ten years. That's gonna manifest itself in big ways.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Well, I've seen, you know, even while I was in,
I knew a lot of guys that left, like a
different a lot of recon guys, and then guys from
other communities that got out of the Marines and went
over to become a Green Beret because they're like, even
even in recon, what's the mission? You know, you're training,
you're doing these hardcore training. I mean, they're they're some

(24:18):
of these guys are elite, elite shooters, elite at taking
down you know, ships, oil and gas platforms, and they've
proven it before. I remember there was a recon team
that took down a ship during that whole Somali pirate
you know escapades. But the problem is is that because
they're not part of socom, no one calls on them.
They're on ship. I remember when I was on the

(24:40):
MEW and we had uh they were gonna there was
a ship that needed to be boarded.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
They they over.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
They took the navy boarding team over the recon marines
on our ship. I was like, that's fucked up, man.
It was the commodore's decision. But it's like, that's the thing, like,
because there's they're and it's not because they're incapable, it's
just they're not They're not in the thought process of
a lot of decision they don't.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Have they don't have anybody advocating for them. It's yeah,
and and so so that that's the big point is
they don't have anybody advocating for them, and the and
Marsak has gone so far as to not advocate for themselves.
They are telling their own operators. So let's circle this
whole thing around. They're telling their own operators you are
not special, you just get to do special operations. So, okay, man,

(25:31):
this is earth shatter. So the Marine Corps ethos that
will not allow Marsok to exist. I mean, if they've
been fighting it since they were stood up, they and
and so. Then so let's say you say, okay, screw
the Marine Corps. I'm going to Marsak and then the
Brotherhood will take care of me. And then you get
to Marsac and the Marsak commander says, you ain't special.

(25:51):
You're a matter of fact, you're so you are. You
are a burden to the mission because you choose to
wear non standard boots.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
How damn you? How I could not like?

Speaker 2 (26:03):
This is the This is the you know when you're
when you join the service, you're a private and you
worry about shining boots and cutting grass, and but you
go thirty years later and you retire as a star
major and you worry about shining boots and cutting grass.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
That's the stuff that makes people want to get out.
It's because it's like, at some point, treat me like
a fucking adult. Hey, I want to buy these boots
or these shoes because they work best for me. We
all have different feet. The three options that the Marine
Corps authorizes with an EGA stamped on the side, it
doesn't work for me. Like, and you're out of everyone

(26:38):
in the in the Marine Corps. Technically you're with so calm,
so it's different, supposed to be different, But out of
everyone in the Marine Corps, you're the one that's most
likely going to choose the best option for yourself because
you're actually doing your job so much. You know, even
if it's training and stuff, you're really working out your equipment.
It's not like you go down to the issue facility
and get your equipment and it goes into wards locker

(27:00):
and then four years later you turn it back in.
You're one of those units that's actually out using all
your equipment and stuff like that. So it makes sense
for you to pick the best thing, you know what
I'm saying, Like it doesn't make sense for them.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
And yeah, and while it's not stated openly, like there's
no policy out there that says this, but one of
the unspoken great benefits that guys love is when you
come to special operations, you get to wear what you
want and put your hands in your hands and podcasts right,
non standard, it's all that stuff right, so, so and
and and when when This is particularly true for green Brays.

(27:37):
And I'll give you the great example is that when
you screw up, you get that you get those special
privileges taken away from you. And we've seen that, you know.
So the classic is the no hat, no salute area.
And in many soft footprints, you know in that in
that battalion area group area, it's a no hat, no salute.
That's the little benefit you get for for for coming
to the dark side is you don't have to worry

(27:57):
worry about where your patrol cat is and saluting everybody
and when when Third Group, So about a year ago,
Third Group had a big kerfuffle in the in the
news where they had a couple of guys that were
caught up in some drug trafficking and some human trafficking.
It was it was pretty ugly, it was a pretty
bad breakdown. It was very very limited, uh in a

(28:18):
number of people did that were actually involved in it,
but the command came down hard on the mean. They
pulled in an attire. It was at least a company
and they've been the whole battalion one morning, called them
in on like a Saturday morning, gave everybody a year
analysis and read them to ride act and and and
all that business. And it's still under investigation, still going
through adjudication. It will end up turned out to be

(28:39):
pied seven to nine guys that are involved, and it'll
get they'll get punished, which is which is pretty small,
not insignificant, but pretty small. But one of the things
that they did to sort of like send a message
was they revoked the no hat, no salute policy in
the group area. And it was like and that was
the thing that got guys like up, like this is

(29:01):
some bullshit, man, and so so little things like that,
like like we like we can joke about, Oh it's this,
who cares, don't wear I got it, don't wear non
standard boots when you're when you're around. But like it's
little stuff like that that makes a difference, Like that's
the quality of life stuff and you're and it and
it and it cascades down and it makes up. It

(29:21):
makes a big deal. Treat guys like adults. You're you're
seeing this in the in the big army too. There's
been been a recent sort of an epidemic of really
bad chow in the dining facilities. So the defects are,
you know, I always learned there are three things you
don't mess with. You don't mess with with Joe's pay,
you don't mess with Joe's mail, and you don't mess

(29:41):
with Joe's chow. Those three things are written in stone.
You get three hots and a cot, and you get
your mail when mail call comes. And the dining facilities,
particularly places like Fort Carson out in Colorado, are are
really poorly run. And there's if you talk to the logistations,
is all sorts of reasons why there's a standard twenty
one day menu and there's you supply chains and blah

(30:04):
blah blah blah, and there's not enough cooks in the
service and you got to contract it out and all
that business. But like you are fucking with Joe's chow,
and you will know you will not see guys complain
as much as they do when they can't go to
the dining facility and get a decent damn meal. So
one of the big things for coming to special operations

(30:26):
is our defacts are like legit good, like everyone people care,
they take care of you get good chow, and so
I liken the the the we're taking away your right
to wear boots, uh and uh. And we're gonna take
away your right to no hat, no to no salute,
to to the way the big Army looks at dining facilities.

(30:48):
You start messing with with stuff like that, and you're
gonna see a massive impacts. So my advice to the
new administration. We got a new ministration. Now this is good.
Congratulations to the Marine Corps. You have a Marine Corps
E four who's gonna be the vice president? Right man,
You guys are doing well. Maybe he'll fix the defects.
But can you imagine a return on investment for that
minor in terms of what it would cost, and the

(31:10):
morale would immediately go up right immediately, You'd see that
would impact recruiting across before. So give guys, give you,
let guys word the boots they want, feed them well,
and give them to your point. Give them a mission,
give them a good mission, and then have the services
advocate for that. Don't don't have me doing gate guard,
don't have me mow lawns. Let me do my mission,
whatever that mission is. If I'm a If I'm a

(31:32):
field artillery man, let me let me shoot the big guns.
If I'm an aviator, let me fly the fly of
the aircraft. If I'm a if I'm a Green Beret,
let me go do the things that Green Brays do.
If I'm a Marsk raider, let me go do what
Marsk is good at. And but Marsk, because they're entrenched
in this marine culture, cannot figure out what their unique

(31:53):
market proposition is. And and so I always challenge these
young captains when when I'm speaking with them, is you, guys,
you guys got to step the culture in the culture
of what Marstok is going to do cannot be driven
from the command down. You got to set what that
culture is. You guys, decide what it is you're gonna
be good at and just do it and we'll see,
we'll see if that happens. But that's that's critical to

(32:15):
the future of Marsk. Maybe it's the advisory role, Maybe
it's maybe they maybe they do the maritime advisory roles
that the seals are not meant for because Marsok, like
Green Berets, you can't go till you're a little bit older,
a little bit more mature. You gotta be a little bit,
a little bit more seasoned. Yeah, I think you can't.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Even I think you can't even apply until you're a
senior corporal or a sergeant. So E four or E five,
it guld be a question about four years in something
like that. And and if you're like a staff sergeant
and EAST six, I think they will only take you
if you've been a staff sergeant for like a year
or less or something like that.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Because I remember, it's a real tight win.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
I remember some recon guys that wanted to go over
but they had missed the boat because They're like, Oh,
I'm a staff sergeant and I've been in for like
six years or something like that, and I missed it.
And I'm like, that's so stupid. Like you guys are
the force recon guys that have been out training guys. Yeah, yeah,
Like you have a lot of the skills that they
need already checked off. You know, you don't even have

(33:14):
to send you to so many schools at the end
because you've already done it.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
You know you're gonna get a much higher return on investment.
So so I think Marsk Marsacks had an inflection point
here they've got you know, they probably got I mean,
if if the Marines had their way, the Marines would
would ship can the whole thing. That's some prime real
estate out there, Stony Point on the June and and
there you lose your best it's a it's a it's

(33:37):
a commitment from the service. You lose some of your
best guys when you have these stalkings. That's that's the
reality of it. But you also you get guys into
the service because they want to achieve that, right, I mean,
that's that's the secret. The AT and X ray program
is the greatest uh greatest recruiting pipeline for the eighty
second Airborne ever because two thirds of the guys that go,
they hell, they go down the road to the eighty second.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
So that's the same with the seal. That's the same
with the seals direct Like, that's like, that's why people
don't understand. They're like, why would they let so and
so sign up with a seal contract. It's like they
know he's not gonna be a seal. He's gonna go
be a Bosun's made, or he's gonna go be a
Corman or something. You know, one of these other jobs
that need to be filled that we don't get. We're
not recruiting people for you know, that's the secret. Like

(34:19):
once you fail, like now you're it's up to them
to decide where you go. That's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
I think the total seal, like the aggregate seal selection
rates like ten percent. It's pretty bad. So marines are
marines I think are about fifty percent from A and S.
I don't know what the total pipeline is, but I
think it's about fifty percent at A and S Green
Brailer about historically six percent.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, I'd be surprised to know that it was at
fifty percent. If it is, it wasn't always like that.
That may that may be an attribution to because part
of that is probably because I know, before I got out,
they instituted a pre an S program, so to kind
of weed guys out before they even went to ans.
That way, we're not spending all this time and money

(35:04):
to find out that you can't swim, you know, or
that you can't rupt more than two miles or something
like that. You know that way.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, So it's the say, it's the same way for
for eighteen X rays. So for eighteen X rays. That's
the Special Forces from street to seat into the pipeline,
and and the numbers for for eighteen X ray candidates
at selection at SFAs is about forty percent, which is
pretty good. So officers are about fifty percent selector selection rate.
National Guard is at about forty five percent, eighteen X

(35:34):
rays are about forty percent, and then active duty enlisted
in service recruits are at about twenty five percent. So
do the math there. So everyone goes, well, man, eighteen
X ray, you got a pretty good you got a
pretty good shot there. Forty percent. That's good. But but
that that only counts at selection. That doesn't count the
guys that that signed a you know, signed an eighteen
X ray contract and lost it while they were in

(35:55):
BISER training. That's that's not not in not insignificant numbers,
it's very very large.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
They lose it at.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Basis. So if you so, one of the things you
have to do in order to keep your AT and
X ray contract is pass a PT test at a
specific level in in base of training during OSA down
down at Fort Moore, and a lot quite a few
guys do not pass that and they lose their contract.
Then you guys will go to airborne school, get injured,

(36:24):
can't pass, or will quit. Uh, then guys. Even so,
now you whittle the number down any more guys show
up here to here, to Fort Liberty and they're assigned
to assigned a switch and they have to go through
the special SFPC Special Forces Preparatory Course and and that's uh,
you'll lose some more even more guys there. So it
looks like you get forty percent of the guys to

(36:45):
you only get through forty percent of the guys that
got to selection. The real number is probably half of that.
It's probably half that. Yeah, and so now it doesn't
look quite so good. And the same thing with the
National Guard. A lot of guys will say, well, if
National Guard numbers historically, you're about forty five my best
chances to go through the National Guard. Well, yes, but
the National Guard groups run what's called sf sf PC

(37:11):
no sf SFRI spe Special Forces Readiness Exercise. So there's
an SFRI, then an SFCP of conditioning and conditioning program.
So these are like mini selection gates that they have
to pass to before the National Guard will send themto selection.
And it's very very Uh. Some units are better run

(37:32):
than others, but like Florida three nineteen, they run a
phenomenal prep program down there and and they only you, like,
if you get through their prep program to go to selection.
They have a really high selection rate. But because a
lot of guys didn't didn't pass any of the gates
to get there, so so so the numbers a little
bit skewed that way, whereas the seals count or the

(37:54):
reason the seals are ten percent is because they count
numbers from the get go. So here's an interesting one
for you. One of the projects I'm working on now
is a Ranger Ranger Regiment Assessment and Selection Program prep program.
So it's called RASP. RASP is if you want to
go to the Ranger Regiment, you have to go through
their selection is called RASP, and that's that's called an

(38:17):
Option forty contract. If you're a young eleven X ray
inftrum In and you want to go to the Ranger regiment,
you sign what's called an Option forty contract, and that
essentially guarantees you a shot to go to RASP. And
the total number of RASP guys that actually end up

(38:38):
in a Ranger battalion is eight percent, so their their
selection rate at RASP is about I think it's about
fifty percent right now. But the total number of guys
that sign an option forty contract so start basic training
and all the way through the various skates and end
up in a ranger battalion is eight percent. So that

(39:00):
if you if you were a recruiter and you're telling
a kid, hey, I want to see you want an
option forty contract? Hell yeah, brother, you can make it.
You can go right to the ranger regimen. Your tambaret's
waiting for you. And then if you told them your
chances of making it are eight percent, and he'd be like,
fuck that, I want to go to eighty second. So
that that's brutal. So one of the things that that
that the demand signals I've received is there's kids that

(39:21):
are like, help me prep. How do I how do
I get ready for this? This this unique process? And
then and the reality of it is the hard part
is not RASP and RASP is hard that that that
you know, the week's out there a cold range. Are
are are brutal. I mean it's a it's a smoke session,
but it's the the harder part is maintaining that that

(39:42):
option forty contract all the way through basic and A
I T and all that, and that's all. That's all
Option forty. That's not just eleven series guys. That's you know,
they take a bunch of different MS is any MS
and the Ranger regiment you know, cooks and supply guys
and all that business. So so that those are pretty
abysmal numbers. And so I got guys asking me, hey, man,
you got to help me prep. How do I do this?

(40:03):
So we can do that? That's easy, that's just physical
you know, that's exercise science. That's physical prep and conditioning. Yeah,
pretty easy. But but if if you don't know, you
don't know. And so that demand has been huge. I've
been telling guys recently. You know, so I have a
team of of strength and conditioning coaches and and exercise
physiologists and physical therapists, and we're working on the correct

(40:24):
model formula for RASP the same way that we did
for for s F a S when we wrote Shut
Up and Rock, which is the s F prep manor
that we came up with. That's been that's been really
really popular, and the and the feedback from guys that
are on it, man is the performance games are phenomenal
and and guys are asking, hey, I want one for

(40:44):
Rath and it's like, okay, but we're gonna we have
to do it right. So it's a that's a year
long research, uh you know, in depth research process. We've
been been telling guys do shut up and rock in
the meantime, but we got to get those numbers up
because eight percent is not going to cut it.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
So yeah, that's pretty low, I mean, and I mean
people don't want to hear. There's two thoughts, right, if
you increase the numbers, then are you letting in people
that shouldn't be there? But or are we increasing the
numbers because people are coming in more understanding of what
they're about to do and a prep proper one.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah, and so that's a great point justin so so
you there has never been more information available to a
young candidate for any of the turns. It's Marsan or Seals, whatever.
There is no lack of information. I mean, I have
I've written a book on it. There's literally a book
called a Rock Upper Shut Up that you can you
can buy and it will tell you exactly what they

(41:42):
expect the selection And we'll tell you the standards, but
you'll give it. I've probably got a copy.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
I got it up on the shelf.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
There, there you go. So so it's available. There's multiple
YouTube channels. I mean the SWICH social media is packed
with with you know, nuggets of information that that information
is out there. So it's not a lack of information.
And we know the exercise science. We know how to
prep guys. We know you know how to build endurance

(42:08):
programs and strength programs, how to keep guys injury free.
That's not a problem. I think there's probably maybe too
much information. Guys get a little proalysis by analysis. I
think what we have to recognize is that we have
a different recruiting population. These kids are just different. They
are less physical by nature. So we know that the
three sports that the three sports that are decreasing in

(42:31):
popularity or in participation the most are football, lacrosse, and wrestling.
Name for me three sports that are that are better
for preparing a guy to have his ass handed to
him in an assessment selection program. Football Football is essentially
learning how to bully other people and learning how to

(42:52):
be bullied. Lacrosse the same way brutal contact sport wrestling.
You're going to beat a man into submission on the
wrestling mat. Are three sports that are that you will
uniquely prepare a guy for the rigors of a of
a physical, demanding, commando lifestyle. Those are the three sports
that are that are declining in participation the most. So okay,

(43:12):
so we have a different recruiting population. Look at the
information environment that that young recruits come into the where
where we have social media profiles that are uniquely curated.
And I put out into the world as a young
high school kid, what I put out in the world
on my social media is only what I want you
to see. It's only the best elements of me. And

(43:33):
and the feedback that I get from that is immediate
and positive. I get likes and and and way to
go and and and follows in all the business. And
now compare that to your experience as a young private
going through uh, you know, going through the Marie Marine
Corps recruit depot, and none of it was positive feedback.
And uh, if you got feedback at all, and and

(43:54):
it would and you're you did. You didn't control any
of that environment. You were in zero control role. And
and so you are by default that our recruiting population.
This is not an attractive lifestyle, and the military is
not an attractive lifestyle. So so it used to be
that the return on that was that you got to
be part of the brotherhood, the military elite. You were

(44:17):
treated with a little more deference and respect. You know,
thank you for your service. For as cringey as that
may be for some guys, but that that's what you
bought into, right. You also got some benefits, you know,
you got some of the GI Bill, and you got
taken care of three hots and a cot. So now
now now take these young recruits and these guys that

(44:37):
have grown up in this environment, this information environment, and
they and the physical environment. Plus seventy percent of young
boys are raised in homes without fathers. That's pretty bad.
You're in an education system where eighty four percent of
teachers are female, so you have no positive male influence. Man,
you have created a a shoot storm of horrible conditions

(45:00):
that the military used to be able to say, come
into this brotherhood and and you'll get all these benefits.
And now now it's it's it is less. So I'm
not gonna say it's it is not that way, but
it's less. So you know, it's toxic masculinity. It's uh,
we're gonna now you. Now you can't even get three
hots and a cot because you're the barracks have molded it.
And if you're a twenty nine palms, God help you.

(45:20):
There's no ac in the barracksy. You live in the
fucking desert and there's no air conditioning. So uh and
now you're gonna mess around with my my, my food
and the defect and that's a less attractive thing now, right. Yeah,
what we saw in the last election I think was
a was a a response to that. You saw young
males were like, enough of that, enough of that woke business.

(45:44):
I want to I want to be engaged in an
environment where I'm at least not punished for for for
wanting to serve, or for being masculine, or for you know,
for being a you know, for lack of a better term,
a dude guy. Bro Right. So and so you saw
that that, uh uh in this last election. That's why
I think that we're on the on the cusp of

(46:05):
a of a very good recruiting a couple of recruiting years.
I don't think recruiters gonna have any trouble making quota,
excuse me making mission, because I think you're gonna see
guys coming back to that. It is you. I don't
think you can. I don't think you can. You can
place enough importance on the fact that J. D Vance
got to lect the vice president. He is a by

(46:26):
the way, you could be jd Vance's stunt double jd Vance, Right.
Jd Vance is a you know, hardscrabble came from Apple
h He's got a great story, young marine on the
you know, junior enlisted marine and now he's the vice
president of the United States, like like that. That story
is going to resonate with with with with the the

(46:49):
young male population more than we can imagine the acquittal
of Daniel Daniel Penny in New York. I don't I
don't think we can understate how important that is. That's
sort of a a a statement to say that that
masculinity is back, young Marines are back, you know, we're
back in favor and uh And I think that's gonna

(47:11):
I think that's going to contribute to the overall information environment.
And I think you're going to see them the military
in general, but particularly the traditionally masculine roles marine infantrymen,
marine ground don combat special operations. I think you're going
to see a significant resurgence there. You know, we got
to wait a couple of years of fact to play out,

(47:31):
but I think it's going to be market.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
No, I think you're right. I think right now. Well,
I think out of the most recent year, the Marine
Corps is the one that had the least issues with
getting recruiting. I think they met all their goals that
they had set out. I don't know those goals were
lowered before they set them from the previous I think.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
You're the only service that didn't. I think you're the
only service that didn't. And if you remember you, I
don't know if you saw it or not, but they
had all the senior listed leaders from each of the
services to the service chiefs were testifying in front of Congress,
and it was you know, they're they're they're impressive, good
public speakers. But man, that's star major the Marine Corps
was in there. Brother, I wanted to go head down

(48:12):
to the recruiters in the list. When he got done
done talking, I mean he he, he is cut from
the cloth of the most like you called Central Casting
and said get me the most badass E nine you
can possibly find, Yeah, and put him in front of
Congress and it was like he was talking and he
was we're not lowering standards. Were refused, and I was like,
man boy, they you guys picked a good one here

(48:34):
and he and he said it very clearly. Marine Corps
is not lowering its standards and we are and we
have no trouble meeting our mission. And they're the only
service that didn't lower their lower their quota.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
And uh, I think that's because people want to challenge.
You know, people are tired of the people are tired
of participation trophies and stuff like that. Like it's it's
the Marine Corps is still I'm not saying that they're
not softer, obviously the softer generation than we were. Obviously
we were obviously I went to the last hard boot camp, right, Yeah,

(49:07):
But I think, yeah, I think they offer a challenge.
And that's what a lot of like kids, you know,
i'll call them kids, eighteen to twenty two year olds
that are joining the military, a lot of them want
to challenge. Some of them do want to come in
for benefits and stuff like that. But if you're joining
the Marine Corps specifically you want to be a marine,
Like it's not if you want it. If you want

(49:29):
the benefits and stuff like that, you can do that
without the pain of becoming a marine going through boot
camp and stuff like that. And people know that. But
I think that challenge to say, hey, man, you know
I went through Paris Island or I went through San
Diego and and became a marine, that's huge for a
lot of people. And it's like its own selling point.
And that's like why the Marine Corps throughout history has

(49:51):
been super basic on their advertising because it works.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
You know.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
It's like, hey, we didn't promise you a Rose Guarden
kind of mentality, you know. But it does trickle over
it to a talking about earlier about like the there's
no special Marines because hey, we all went through this.
You know, everyone's special. And I'm like, yeah, I get it, okay, whatever,
you know. But I do think having that drive, and

(50:14):
you know, part of it also is that there's a
lot of like heritage pages on like Instagram and social
media that really kind of push out not just the
Marine Corps but the military in general, and you know,
like show different aspects of it and what it's really like.
You know, I mentioned them all the time on here

(50:36):
Goons up as one of them. Heavily suppressed is another
one that's a good one. If you want to know
anything about artillery and that kind of world, you know,
there's these pages that you can go and find out
information and see what they're actually doing and training. And
it makes training look cool too, you know. It's like, oh,
and you see the.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Brotherhood, that's what that's why you wanted to join. You
wanted to shoot the big guns. Yeah, and get stuffed
up a little bit.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yeah, exactly. And and I think it really shows like
the Brotherhood too, because there's people in the comments like, yeah,
I remember when we were on that range, you know,
and like you see that kind of deal. So I
think that helps recruiting. I talked to it general and
he was saying that one thing that people don't ever
bring up about the recruiting and why it's such an
issue is that not only is it less attractive to

(51:18):
a lot of the youth of America, but also that
this new generation that they're recruiting is half the size
is the millennial generation, which was half the size of
their parents' generation. So they're like, that's the thing is
that dwindling pool is part of it is like there's
just not as many things.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
So there's a couple issues there. Seventy seven percent of
Americans are ineligible to serve in the military. It makes
us Genesis is a big part of that, right, that's
the new medical screening.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yeah, you can't lie about you can't lie about medical
stuff anymore.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
All your records are there laid bare, right, So so
it used to be just a few years ago, and
it makes genesis first came out you ADHD is the
big one, right, ADHD and any sort of any sort
of mental health uh uh uh history including including an
E and I e P and individualized education plan that's

(52:10):
considered a mental health intervention. So it used to be
that you when it makeshess chances first came out you
you had the the rule was you had to have
seven years of a clean diagnosis from any ADHD and
any any medications. Well, so, okay, so if you're a
high school kid and your your parents have you on
the meds, because that's the default position now in schools

(52:31):
is that you are now you're not eligible into your
twenty you know, twenty five years old.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Wow, I didn't know that seven years.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Huh, seven years, that's what it was initially and in
the and then so so recruiters were like, holy shit, man,
like you've killed us. We were not. There's no way
we're going to make mission. These kids are off, they're
off the market. And uh so they they they re
I don't know, re relooked that they're reconsidered that that guidance,
and it went down to two years. Uh and I

(52:59):
think now it's down to one year. You have that
one year clean FA MEDS with a clean diagnosis from
from a licensed mental health professional. So seven years down
to one year. That is not insignificant. So there's a
recognition there. But also kids are fatter. They are because
they're growing up and more kids are growing up and
followless homes. They're less likely to have a legal intervention somewhere,

(53:22):
and they got a record now, right, So you're too fat,
too dumb, or too sick to be eligible. So the
pool is much smaller. So we and all the services
are compete for the same people. Everyone wants smart, fig young,
motivated without without any mental health issues. And that that
pool is very very small. Now now take that and
make that down even smaller into the soft community, and

(53:44):
in soft I think it's something like sixty percent of
this of guys from in service are ineligible to come
to Special Forces. So I mean your pool is like
infinitesimally small, and we're seeing those rates play out at
SFAs we are. The historical selection rate is thirty six percent,

(54:05):
and we for the last couple of years have been
hovering around twenty percent. And we had a class in
August of this year that was selected at ten percent.
Ten percent, so almost a quarter of what the historical
average is. That's of course unsustainable that you get you
get ten percent selection rates for special mission units, that

(54:25):
is not one that you get for special Forces. It's unsustainable.
We missed our session goal by fifty percent the last
three years and getting worse every year, so eventually you're
gonna have to shut down Special Forces groups, and of
course we're not willing to do that. So I take
I'm sort of two minds here. I take great pride
in the fact that we have not lowered the standards selection,

(54:46):
but I also recognize that that's unsustainable. We have to
something has to be done, and if we're not going
to change our selection standards, and we should not as
the same way that the Marine Corps has not lowered
their their standards. The starmades of bre career is very
clear on that we and lower and standards. I think
that's awesome. There's an attractiveness to that. Guys who are
like I want that challenge, so so then we have

(55:08):
to Then the only other thing you can do is
you can Since you're not going to change the accessions process,
you then have to change those that are being assessed.
You have to get to them earlier, get them more
physically prepared, get them off the drugs, get them, get
them out of legal trouble. You have to have sort
of an outreach program down to the recruiting population and say,
if you want this lifestyle, if you want to test yourself,

(55:29):
count yourself, you want to be in the brother you
want to count yourself amongst the best. Whether that's the
Marine Corps or Cyber Command, those are the two ends
of the spectrum there, right, Marine Corps or Cyber Command,
crayon eater or a guy that does crayon graphic cards.
You have to get to that population younger, sooner and
intervene in the positive sense to get them healthy, get

(55:50):
them physically fit, keep them out of keep them out
of legal trouble. So that requires a concerted effort of
outreach down to those people to tell them this, this
is what's waiting for you when you're when you're fourteen
or thirteen, the last thing on your mind is going
through maps in five years. That's just not there. But

(56:11):
for many of them, that's where those problems start. So
you've got to have an intervention there. The number one
way you could do that is to keep fathers in
the home. That would solve you probably half the problems
right there there. You probably got to get a better
education system. We know that that the modern American education
system is designed to produce reasonably smart graduates that are

(56:34):
able to fill the industrial base. This is this is
well documented. People act to surprise when they when they
hear this. The modern American education system is the experiment.
It is not the norm, and it was designed to
produce a reasonably educated population to man the industrial base,
and the entire apparatus has been taken over by forty

(56:57):
year old cat ladies. I recognize that my wife and
daughter are teachers and they're part of that population, but
that's the reality. Eighty four percent of elementary teachers and
and a little bit less, probably eighty percent in the
secondary schools are are female. So it has a female
bent to it. And the ideal, the ideal behavioral profile

(57:19):
for a young student is that of a of a
young girl, quiet, task sature, you know, task centered, whereas
the and what's seen as as bad behavior is what
little boys do. Act out, rough and tumble, play verbalized. Yeah,
like so it's like, okay, no, no, wonder we have
this education system that that that punishes young boys. There's

(57:42):
a great book by by I think her name is
Christina Sommers. It's called The War on Boys, and it
describes how we have institutionalized this process. You go back
to the establishment the Department of Education in nineteen eighty
uh and utter failure for the for the nation. We
should get rid of that thing right after we get
rid of the the ATF and and the I R S.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
But it sounds like you're advocating for maybe more funding
for like j R O TC and stuff in high school.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
You could, yeah, I'd like to see that that. I
think that's one way, but but I think it's I
think it's a I think it's more than just formal
programs like j RTC. I think it's societal. I think
it's it is the it is the abandonment of the
traditional family. I'm a traditionalist, I'm a Catholic. I've been
married thirty two years. My kids are both normal, well adjusted,

(58:34):
producing citizens. That's my greatest accomplishment in life. It is
not my green beret. It is not all the awards
and badges, it's not the books. It is that I
have normal I stayed married to the same woman, God
bless her, and that I raised I raised normal kids.
So I count that as a as a great accomplishment.
If we had more guys that saw that role as

(58:57):
sort of a sacred role of raising good families, I
think you'd solve all the problems there. I think that
the education system is a is a part of that.
Homeschooling is awesome, uh private schooling. That's why I think
school choice is such a such a critical, uh critical issue,
in that the education is a non competitive environment. We

(59:20):
know what happens in non competitive environments. When the government
has monopoly, you get the d m V. If you
were to everyone's been the DMV. Nobody will ever claim
that going to the d m V is a is
a good experience. It's a good that it's efficient effective,
right because there's no competition. If you if Elon Musk
got to open a a d m V in every state,

(59:41):
he put the d m V out of business because
he'd make it efficient and effective. So so so I
you know, I think it's multi layered. It is it
is the it is the education system, without a doubt.
It is the It is the traditional family system, without
a doubt. It is their over reliance on on pharmaceuticals.
You know, I've yet to see there. There are not

(01:00:02):
many health issues that you can't solve with whole foods
and a walk outside. Go for a walk and eat
normal food. Eat what your grandparents ate. I mean. So again,
that's a reflection of women being encouraged to be out
of the home, right had if you go into work,
if you're a working two working parents, and they have
two people contributed to the tax base, where whereas you know,

(01:00:26):
my wife was a stay at home mom until our
kids were in fourth grade, I think, before she went
back to work, and that was the that's one of
the reasons why my kids are normal, productive citizens because
they had a stay at home mom who took care
of them and dad occupied a traditional masculine role and
it was tough. In the military, we all recognize that
you were deployed a lot, so my wife played many,

(01:00:47):
many sacrifices. But I think if we saw a return
of that, so it's multi leveled societal, it's institutional nature
if we could incentivize it. We've seen this in other countries,
countries that will incentivize having stay at home moms in
large families, our countries that are thriving culturally, and we

(01:01:08):
are not one of those countries. We are seeing an
increase in divorce rates and increase in fatherless homes. Eighty
percent or more of males in the prison system come
from fatherless homes. I mean, it's a it's an obvious,
obvious correlation. So so I think I think that's part

(01:01:29):
of it, and and the military will only benefit from
that because the military is one of the last places
where traditional systems are still in place. Now we've seen
we've seen an erosion of that with the lifting of
the combat exclusion rule in twenty twelve, where females were

(01:01:50):
allowed and encouraged into in the non traditional combat roles.
And you can argue the benefits of that, and I've
studied that deeply. I spent years studying female candidate integration
into special forces. That's been a by all accounts, by
any measure, and utter failure. That's not to say that
the five females that have made it through selection are failures.

(01:02:13):
They are phenomenal people and operators by all accounts, although
there's there's some debate on that, but they're mostly great
soldiers and great green brags.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Failure because of physical ability like broken hips. I mean,
for those that don't know, the Marine Corps did a
very extensive like they did an extensive study. They had
I think they put together three different companies of marines
and they were one that was all male, one that
was all female, and then one that was like mixed,
and then they had them do all kinds of different tasks.

(01:02:44):
I mean, it was in a pretty impressive study, and
it found that the female the ones with half female
or had females, and had a higher amount of injuries
and also performed not as high as to a high
of a level. And it's not their fault. Their body
frames aren't built for like a marine infantry man is

(01:03:04):
our high biology.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Yeah, it's biology.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Yeah, it's so there's no issue.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
It's solace in special forces. So, like I said, the
normal selection rate is about historically thirty six percent, the
selection rate for females is ten percent, So it's at
least a third, if not a quarter. And of the
of the females, the female candidates that I don't like
saying females, I'd say female Candidates's the descriptive of the

(01:03:29):
female candidates that didn't make it, Over half suffered permanent
muscular skeletal injuries. So the point that they had to
separate from the service. Oh wow, right now you will
not find that statistic. So CAM will not provide that.
SWICK will not provide that. I discovered that through my
own research, fifty I have permanent muscular skeletal injuries that

(01:03:53):
resulted in separation from service. So now let's look at it.
Let's not look at it from a from a you know,
brotherhood fraternity, male patriarchy. Let's look at it from a
business case. Is it worth from a business case that
for that fifty percent, at least fifty percent of the

(01:04:13):
female candidates that we want to assess in the Special Forces,
we will now be paying for their disability and treatment
for the rest of their lives. Is that worth it
from a business? Can we scale that up? Can we
sustain that at a large scale? I don't think we
would want to, So is it? You know? So we say, well,
females deserve all the good chances. That's what a compassionate

(01:04:34):
society does. Is it compassionate to permanently disable for the
sake of a social experiment? And I'm not saying it's
a social experiment. I'm saying that's what the critics would say.
I personally support it. I think there's room for it,
but I think we have to be smart about how
we do it because what we will get is fifty
percent will be permanently injured. If we had a fifty

(01:04:55):
percent permanent injury rate for anything else that we did,
if half of the people that we sent to airborne
school we permanently disabled, we would shut down Airborne School overnight.
They would be like, this is an utter failure. We
have to change something. No airborne insertion and Joint forcemle
entry is no longer a viable tactic. We gotta do
something different, because that's that's unthinkable. We would do that,

(01:05:17):
but that's what we're seeing in special forces. So now
we have to save ourselves. Is that juice worth to squeeze?
We've gotten some phenomenal female special operators out of it,
But did we need to did we have to have
all that squeeze for that little bit of juice? Is
that really worth it? Or is there a different model
that we can use. Maybe it's a model like the
special mission units do. Special mission units have had female

(01:05:37):
operators for decades. They have a different assessment process, they
have a different employment model, they have a different training model.
That's not to say that those female operators are any less,
they're just different, just like males and females are just different.
To your point, it's just biology. It's not an indictment
on the value of females. It's a recognition of biology.

(01:05:58):
It's just different. Mh. You can you can leave your
leave your ethics and your morals and your and your
ideologies out of it. You just have to look at
it from that perspective. And and in my mind as
a businessman, I look at that and I say it's
not absolutely not worth it. If half to if every
other time I went and put the trash out in
my trash cans, I sustained a gunshot wound, I'd stop

(01:06:20):
putting the trash out. So let's let's look at it.
Let's look at it in a little more logical terms.
So so when people criticize uh pete hegseth are are
declared UH sect def nominee and he he has been
very clear that he does not support females in a
lot of those combat roles. And I don't know his

(01:06:42):
full position. I'm probably butchering his full position, but I
think that the discussion is a valid discussion. There is
some merit in that discussion is what roles. So I
think pilots, that's probably a very valid case. I think
in many cases women are superior pilots. They have the
ability to multitask that that men don't. So maybe there's
a strong case there. But for green rays, I don't

(01:07:05):
know that there's the same merit in that argument. For
the reason for Marine Corps infantrymen, I don't think there's
a lot of merit in that argument, just because the
return on investment's not there, and then and the damage
we do is is too high. So somebody can make
the case that it's not ideologically make it make a
case to me that is not ideological base. That's that's

(01:07:25):
that's logic and evidence, and I'm more than willing to
have that discussion. But if it's ideological base, I'm not interested.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
So in either direction, Yeah, it's been I mean it's ongoing, right,
it's an ongoing discussion. I mean even when I get out,
when I was getting out, or a couple of years
before I got out, I remember we got our first
female officer at my artillery battalion and h or she
might have been from regiment and she came down to
the battalion for something I don't remember, but I was like, wow,

(01:07:52):
there's a female and dude, not even the literally the
first day, someone wrote a joke on the whiteboard about
a dick, and she walked in and he went to
erase it real fast, and he then he realized that
he wrote it with permanent marker and he was to
racist board and I'm like, God, day one man.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
You have to recognize that one of the things that
makes those combat units so effective is is that that
masculine mentality. It may be against regulations that may be
in poor taste, that may be colored, but it that
But that's like, that's the stuff that makes those dudes tick. Yeah,
and if you removed that. So so I did a

(01:08:36):
study year this in two thousand and thirteen. It was
right after the lifting of the combat exclusion rule, and
we went down and surveyed one of the brigades in
eighty second. That was the first. It was designated as
the first unit to accept female infantrument into it. And
we went down and talked to and interviewed the entire

(01:08:58):
but from the from the eight commander down to the
lowest private and we surveyed them all and we asked them,
and they, to a man said, we you know, we
don't have a like no one's here is like like,
we're not not knowing. But but it is not the
prevailing attitude that we don't want women here. It's that
we are we have very strong concerns that they're gonna
that standards will be lowered. So as long as you

(01:09:21):
don't lower the standards, we're fine. Nobody cares. That was
number one. And the second thing was is we have
a very strong concern that our default position is dick
jokes on the whiteboard. Right we you sit around with
any group of any group of ground pounders and the
conversation will turn to ship jokes and jerking off within minutes. Right,
that's the reality of it. And so now you introduce

(01:09:44):
a female into this traditional masking environment and if and
because that's the default culture, somebody's gonna say something and
they're gonna catch a charge. They're gonna catch a sharp charge,
an EO complaint or something. And and for right or
for wrong. That was the number one concern to those guys,
because we are concerned that we're going to see an
increase in guys getting getting you know, catching charges, being

(01:10:08):
persuaded for that. And and their concern was not so
much that that they couldn't change their behavior. It's that
they knew. They these young guys, these young infantrymen, these
are like the you know, the salt of the Earth
corn fed guys from Nebraska. And they were like, we like,
we will, we can change our behavior, but well, we're
concerned with and they had the data that that when

(01:10:30):
when organizations increase the education of EOAK and sharp complaints,
you see a rise in fake false complaints. This is
well documented and nobody in the DEI community wants to
talk about this. This is well documented. You see an
increase in both both legit but a marked correlated increase

(01:10:53):
in in in false uh false charges and complaints. And
these guys are like, like, we can change our behavior,
but like I'm in the room, and and and and
a and a you know, a protected person comes in
and and now I'm because I'm just I'm simply in
the room. I'm gonna get implicated in a false charge.

(01:11:13):
And so they were legitimately scared about this, and they're
just like, so, you know, I don't I don't care
as long as standards aren't lowered. And but I'm worried
about this environment of of false because you you know
as well I do that nobody uh tolerates legitimate sexual harassment.
It's if for male on female, female on male, male

(01:11:36):
on male, whatever, Nobody tolerates that stuff. Nobody tolerates racism,
nobody tolerates sexism, nobody tolerates that EO stuff. It's it's
it is simply not tolerated. But we also know that
no matter what, if you are accused in any of
those cases, you are guilty until proven innocent. That has

(01:11:59):
destroyed many a career of an innocent person. So in
an organization. In cultures where we don't tolerate that, there
is a you're at you're at risk for false you know,
false accusations and that that's that's just it will kill
a career.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
We've all seen it. Yeah, I can definitely see up. Yeah,
it can definitely, Yeah, it can definitely happen. And I remember,
I mean when I first came in the Marines, you know,
for those who listened to the show, I wasn't a
Ford observer fire support man right out of MS school.
I was a mechanic. I came in open contract and
I was with Marine Logistics Group two MLG, second MLG,

(01:12:42):
and I was a mechanic there and had females in
our unit and stuff like that. And the thing is
is like, hey man, there's gonna be relationships in a
unit that has males and females. You're not gonna stop it.
Eighteen to twenty two year olds that are in some
of the best shape of their life, that are around
each other all day long. You think that's not gonna happen.
That's like the big problem that I see is that

(01:13:03):
guys start acting goofy around a girl. You know what
I'm saying. Or a woman, and that's a huge issue.
And then the other big thing for me that I've
always thought was a problem was that like the female.
So now they have like if a female wants to
join the infantry, if a woman wants to join the infantry,
I'm so bad about just saying female from being in

(01:13:25):
the military.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
That's the military position.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
Yeah, so if a woman wants to join the infantry,
she has to pass a skills based physical fitness test
for the infantry. So there's they have set it up
so that there's a hey, here's the minimum standard for
both males and females to pass this to even get
into the mos which I think is great. I think
that's good that there's like, hey, here's the here's the

(01:13:48):
bottom line. You have to be able to do these
things to even come into this field. But I think
a problem still arises that women in the military have
a different PFT or physical fitness score requirement for different scoring.
So for men, it's like, hey, if I want to
get one hundred points for my pull up test, I
have to do twenty two pull ups. Women, I think

(01:14:08):
have to do five, which is a huge, huge discrepancy.
But if she does five pull ups. Now her promotion
score is higher than yours. You know what I'm saying,
And I think until you until that changes, where you're
watching people that are literally physically weaker than you get
promoted faster than you because they technically scored higher on
a physical fitness test. I think that right there by

(01:14:31):
itself injects so much, so many problems because you can't
say that we're we're the same, and that we can
do the same, and that we should be treated the same,
while at the same time you're technically getting promoted and
in an advanced fashion because your physical fitness test annual
physical fitness test scores are lower to get the hot

(01:14:53):
maximum points.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
You know what I'm saying, right sound percent? And we
address that in special force. This is about twenty sixteen.
We adopted the gender neutral PT test, and everyone was like, oh,
the gender neutral that means that they're they're giving females
a pass. But what they didn't realize is what we
What we did was we said every candidate will meet

(01:15:16):
the male standard. There's one standard, and the standard they
adopted was the existing male standard. So it actually made
the It created the level playing field, It addressed the
exact problem that those young guys in that in that
intertribrigate said is as long as you don't lower the standards.
They said, we recognize that we don't. We're not going
to lowder standards. There's going to be one standard, and
it's going to be the male standard. So so, but

(01:15:38):
from the forces guys heard, oh, gender neutral standard, that
means that they that means they lowered the standard. The
reality was they made the standard much harder. And interestingly
so in the process of my research, when I was
researching the female candidate integration in this sapass, I interviewed
about half. I personally interviewed about half of the female
candidates that had attempted both made it and made it,

(01:16:00):
and they those female candidates, particularly the unsuccessful ones, were
the most adamant about do not lower standards. So these
are women that were victims of the harder standard, and they,
to a woman, said, nobody, nobody worth their salt, wants
to come through with lower.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
Stand It helps nobody because now now when you show
up and I know standards were lowered for you, I'm
questioning if you're even capable. That's why these people that
want to always like lean on race, sex, gender, whatever,
religion like as a qualifier, Like quit telling me that

(01:16:40):
they're qualified because oh, this is the first, you know,
this is the first Asian American man that ever did this.
Who cares about all of that those qualifications, Like when
you tell me, hey, he's he did it, he completed this,
and you don't have to say he's the first Asian,
or he's the first black, or he's the first or
she's the first whatever by you know, trans whatever. When

(01:17:01):
you add that stuff, it's like diminishing it. It's like, uh, okay, well,
did you get it because you did every what everyone
else did or is it because that qualifier somehow gave
you a pass on some stuff? I know the I
know the Air Force has had some issues last year,
maybe earlier this year with their Special Tactics Squadron, And

(01:17:24):
there was a female going through training that had been
dropped and requested to drop multiple times, and I guess
they let her come back into the training. It's because
they wanted to They wanted to graduate a female, They
wanted someone you know, to finish that course, and they
gave her way more opportunities than they would have the
guys a lot of the instructors came out and were speaking,
you know, passing that information. But I don't know. It's crazy.

(01:17:47):
The whole situation is crazy, like it's real.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
It's challenging. So here, so I'll make a couple of
comments on that. First, I'll say that that when I
did my evaluation of the Special Forces Assessment selection, particularly
in regards to to female candidates and the preferential treatment,
I did not find any preferential treatment. There's there's some
arguments to be made about they had extra extra opportunities

(01:18:13):
or mentorship. I never saw any of that. Every female
candidate that I saw was treated exactly like the males.
The system is designed that way. The cadret were incredibly
professional level playing field that we did see it with
other candidates. Other candidates would give preferential treatment to females.

(01:18:34):
But but you to female candidates. But but that's not
something that you can really control per se.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
But isn't that Isn't that a peek into the field
of the issue though, that they're even from their own team,
they're getting preferential treatment.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
It's it's so you made a point earlier, it's about
human nature. These are population level tendencies. It's and it's meritocracy.
So let's let's talk about that. Let's unpack that bit. America,
for all of its foibles, is a meritocracy. If you
do well, you shall be reward. That's that is the
premise of the American dream. So we we all love that.

(01:19:11):
We love the fact that if I work hard enough,
I'll get there. It doesn't always work out, we get it.
There's there's there's issues with that, but but that's the
that is the the zeitgeist of our of our of
the American psyche. We love a meritocracy. So when we
see things that are that are counter to that, like
d E I, that's why the I is under such attack.
It feels Unamerican. So uh so I so we I

(01:19:36):
would witness personally witnessed at select assessment selection uh preferential
treatment by males. I'll give you an example. So there
is a time during team week. Team week is the
last week of selection. It's universally recognized as the hardest
hardest week in selection. It's very physical, uh, incredibly demanding,
will blow your mind. There was a point in time

(01:19:58):
between events where if Cana didn't make the time hack,
they would get additional training. They get punished, right, and
one of the punishments would be maybe I do extra
push ups or whatever. One of the punishments was they
had to take their rucksack they're fully laden, you know,
it's about seventy pound rucksack and hold it up over
their heads and lock their arms out. They'd have to
hold it there for thirty seconds and when and the
whole team would do it together, the entire team hold,

(01:20:21):
you missed your time, You're gonna get punished. Everyone hold
their rucks up over their head, lock your arms out.
The time will start when everyone has their arms locked
out and will only be finished if everybody makes it well.
Females on a population level have less upper body strength
and males. This is non disputable. This is a scientific fact.
So of course, even amongst the most physically fit, the

(01:20:44):
people that go to SFAs, you are going to see
that population level differences. It'll be less pronounced because these
are actually hyper fit people. But you would see that,
and female candidates would often struggle with that that particular punishment,
and the male candidates would physically rally around her and
with their rocks locked out, they would like be nudging

(01:21:08):
her rock up with theirs, like physically holding it up,
and we would win. I witnessed this multiple multiple times
and at this so you'd say, oh, they're just helping
a weaker a weaker candidate, But on we also witnessed
on those same teams at the exact same time, if
there was a weaker male candidate who also could not

(01:21:28):
lock his arms out, the candidates, the other candis would
literally turn their backs to him and rally around the female.
They would they would turn their back on the male
that was struggling on the exact same thing that the female.
So we're like, we noticed that, we saw it so often,
it was so pronounced that we all, myself and my

(01:21:49):
interns we made we made these notes of me go
back and sure did you notice this, Like, yeah, my god,
I did see that. So this was a this is
a phenomenological study. That was a phenomena that we noticed.
And then when selection was over, I'd write down the
roster numbers of the candidates that I saw engaging in
this behavior. Selection's over, there, they're out from under the yoke,
they're they're they're done, they've made it, and I would

(01:22:09):
interview them and I would say, hey, tell me about
this time. And I would describe this to them and
they would say, I didn't, I never did that. I'd
be like, well, what like, no, no, I saw you like
I saw you, He saw you, she saw you like
we all saw you. Here's what happened. I would describe it,
pictures of it, and they'd be like, I have no requestion.
They would they would literally not recognize that they exhibit

(01:22:31):
that behavior because, to your point, that is human nature.
It is a it is it is it just is.
Female female candidates are have less upper body strength. Female
candidate bone density and bone structure is different than males,
not all females and not all males, but but as

(01:22:51):
a population that that that this is the reality of it.
And these these male candidates were this this behavior, this
protecting females, you know, helping females is so ingrained. It
is such a powerful element of human nature that they
would not even recognize that they were doing it. Okay,

(01:23:12):
so now let's let's let's expand that out and let's
take this so people will say, okay, well we can
we can manipulate a training environment, whether it's at SFAs
or it's at one of those three marine batons that
did the test. We can manipulate that and we can
control the outcomes. Okay, but can you also do that
on the battlefield when they're out of training and now

(01:23:33):
they're under the chaos of combat. And under that chaos
of combat is when you you return to your most
base instincts. And if your base instinct is to always
as a male to protect the female in the tribe,
then that how are you going to control that under combat?

(01:23:53):
Is it going to affect the combat effectiveness of that unit?
I'm not saying it is, but is it? That's something
worthy of of research and and the problem is, though,
is that in conducting that research, the the risk, the
you know, the the outcome is potentially catastrophic. People will

(01:24:14):
die during the during the con the conduct of that experiment.
So we have to really think cautiously. But I think
very hard to be very cautious about how we apply
these policies. You know, policy matters. That's a big deal,
like we should we should be thinking about that. And
what what I gather from from Pete hegsteps, let's go
back to to the guy that will make policy, the

(01:24:34):
Secretary of Defense. I think what he is saying, is
we we need to examine this. Like I fundamentally, because
I'm a traditional guy, it doesn't sit right with me.
I want to examine that. Maybe that's not what he's saying.
Maybe he's saying no chicks in the military. Maybe that's
just you know, maybe that's his thing. I don't think
it is. But but but every reasonable person that I

(01:24:55):
talked to, from the from the four star level down
to the down to the E one will say the
same things. I just I don't want the standards to
be lowered. I don't know how the unit's going to respond.
I don't know how this is going to react to situations.
I want to know more. That's what they're saying. We
have to study it before we make any decisions, before
we change policy. Let's just examine it a little bit closer.

(01:25:16):
And I think that's a completely reasonable position to have.
That's what smart, good leaders should do.

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
Yeah, no, I agree. I think it's an interesting I
don't know, it's an interesting thing. We'll see what happens.
I think Pete Pete Hexas has said he's like, hey, listen,
I know women are in combat. It's duh. You know,
we've had the global War on Terror for the last
twenty years. Yes, there's women in combat, but there's no
reason to put them in the front lines. There's no
reason that we have to, you know, stick them in

(01:25:43):
the infantry and the artillery and stuff like that. Like
if if they would much rather it be they happen
to come into combat situations rather than they're being told
that they're going. And you know what I'm saying, I
guess like it's like a truck driver, you know, gets
in the kind of ambushit to it either way.

Speaker 2 (01:25:59):
I know, I know quite a few. I know quite
a few special operators that are our tip of the
spear that are female. They're they're good, but they they're not.
They are atypically female. They are they're like dudes, you
know what I mean, Just like I know lots of
dudes that were that tried to be operators and they
were atypically male. They were they had a lot of

(01:26:20):
feminine characteristics and qualities. They didn't make it. The by
and large, the females that make it through have atypical
female personality traits, personality and physical traits. Like they're like, like,
you can't tell me, so take your average CrossFit champion.
Let's look at CrossFit. Take your average female CrossFit champion

(01:26:42):
and look at her and tell me that that is
a typical female. They look like a dude. They are jacked, yoked,
and they they do not look hyper feminine. I'm not
saying they're unattractive or they're ugly, or they they look
like dudes, but they do not look typically feminine, because
that's what it takes to be hyper competitive in that environment.

(01:27:04):
So why is that not true in the military. Why
do we why do we say, oh, no, you got
to you know, pigtails and pigtails and pink for everything. Man,
It's it's like, I just think we I think there's
a more reasonable position to take there, and I just
think it should be studied before we change policy and
adopt these because because the results of this changed policy

(01:27:26):
can be catastrophic and nobody wants that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
No, I think you're right. I think you're right. And
and even before all the push to add females into
combat arms, like you said, special mission units were already
utilizing females for specific roles like, Hey, we have this
mission that we need. You are fit best fit for this?
Be it It's an undercover thing that they need a

(01:27:48):
female be it they need a female there to do
searches that men can't do, or whatever it is, or
they have some kind of specialty. I mean, I don't
I don't see there's anything wrong with that. I don't know.
It's just a it's a big game to me at
the bare minimum, I think that even if you have
a fitness test to get into your MOS, I think

(01:28:09):
the annual physical fitness test for all the services should
be a flat rate across the board. And because it's
again it's not fair for guys that are having to
work extremely hard to like top max out on their
physical fitness test. You're talking eighteen minute three mile for males,
you know, to get a top score, you have to

(01:28:29):
hit eighteen minutes or less on your three mile run,
and for females it's over twenty minutes, you know. And
it's just like that's a that's a highly different level
of fitness, and it's I just don't see it being
I think there's always going to be questions in the
general services of the military until everyone is the same,

(01:28:50):
like why oh, she's she got promoted to corporal or
she got promoted to sergeant, because she only has to
do you know, ten pull ups or five pull ups
or whatever it is. You know, like and if I
have gotten that same score, then I would never you know,
it's like you can look at it and go listen.
I would have gotten promoted had I was taking the
same physical fitness tests as her. I think that is
a very You have.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
To remove the emotion, You have to remove the ideology
from it. It has to be logic and evidence, and
and and and for and for ninety seven percent of
the population, they hear your argument and they say, that's logical.
Now show me the evidence. And so if the evidence is,
let's do the research. And if and if your policy

(01:29:32):
says you shall not do the research, because I think
most people know where that research shall conclude, then we say, okay,
then I'm out. Then that's not a meritocracy. I'm not
interested in being involved in that. So this is where
you get low recruiting. Though. So take that, take that
same human nature and take it across the population, and
this is what the result is. You get guys that
say I don't want to be involved in that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
Well, let's talk about something a little lighter. Let's do
it we talked about recruiting, and we talked about how
like social media presence can be a huge thing for recruiting.
You know, I talked about those two Instagram pages like
Goon's Up and Heavily Suppressed, which are both really good
for infantry and artillery. Yeah, and if if you look
at what those kind of pages are doing, it seems

(01:30:16):
like a big positive. I know, you got to have
heard this stuff with Tim Kennedy and his page and
stuff like that you're a Green Beret. For those that
don't know what I'm talking about, there was a podcast
that came out called the Anti Hero Podcast. Their mo
is kind of like, well one Brent, one of the
main coasts, is a former Delta guy. So it's not
like these are some random guys that are you know,

(01:30:39):
talking shit, But they come out and they go, hey,
a lot of these military influencers are inflating what they've
done in the military to sell their brand, to sell
their product, whatever it is. And so their whole thing
is that they're calling people out for for bsing. And
one of those is Tim Kennedy, who is the most
recent one and went super viral about everyone talking about

(01:31:00):
how his book that he wrote, they go through one
chapter or maybe two chapters of the book during one
episode and kind of go, this is bullshit. He doesn't
always talking about here. So as a Green Beret, you know,
as someone that's in that community, what is your take
on one like the military influencers that are out there,

(01:31:20):
and two like, you know some of these guys are
making million Tim Kennedy's making millions of dollars off his
brand deals and stuff like that, and two like embellishment
of service or do you think, like, I don't know,
what's the vibe in the Green Beret community.

Speaker 2 (01:31:32):
Yeah, I'll give you so, I'll give you my opinion,
and I think it's probably pretty close to the vibe. So,
first off, I don't know Tim Kennedy. I don't know
anybody who knows him. I don't know anybody who's ever
served with him. I don't follow him. I've never read
his books. I've never listened to a podcast he's on.
So I'm coming at this from a completely objective position

(01:31:54):
in that I, first off, I think it's okay to
not have an opinion on these things. Not everybody has
to have a hot take on you.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
Sure, I don't know him what little I have heard
from him. It happens to be in a thing that
I'm an expert. I'm an expert in Special Forces Assessment Selection,
and I have heard him discuss his experience at SFAs
and he cheated. He admits to running the roads during
land Now it's called a road runner or a roadkill.
And I one of the things that I do is

(01:32:26):
I teach guy's land navigation, and I spent I take
great pains to explain the guys do not cheat, and
here are the skills that you need in order to
not so. In my soul, I take offense at the
fact that he has cheated and he's a green break,
but I also recognize that a lot of guys do.
I also, I'm good friends with a senior officer who

(01:32:50):
served at the highest command levels, including at Special Forces
Assessment Selection, and he and I do not share that ideology.
He I'm of the mind that if you get caught cheating,
fuck you, You're gone. He is of the mind that, like no, no,
I want guys that are willing to cheat, because that's
what you got to do. You got If you ain't cheat,
you ain't trying. That whole menting yeah, there's there's there's

(01:33:13):
a there's an argument to be made there and so,
but I also know so then, so that's my starting position.
I don't really have an opinion. But what I what
little I do know about Tim Kennedy, I don't necessarily like.
But I also so. I am a military influencer. I

(01:33:33):
have literally four thousand Instagram followers, so you know I
am not making a million dollars a year for my
brand deals. I talk about the most benign stuff possible.
I talk about land navigation, rucking, boots and socks. So like,
I'm talking about stuff that you could not possibly get

(01:33:54):
upset about. And some of the ship that gets set
about me about what I'm doing and my role here,
and I see myself as benign, if not benevolent. I
get a rash of shit about that. Really, Oh, that
guy's fucking cheating. He's telling guys how to cheat on
the on the psychic val I mean, if you read

(01:34:15):
my work, that's absolutely not what I do. I go
to great pains to do the opposite, to tell guys
not to cheat. Don't cheat. Here's how you can cheat.
Here's the skills you need, here's the knowledge skills and
aspectes you need to develop, you know, not to cheat.
So if if if I for my for my incredibly
benign positions and my hot takes, if I can get

(01:34:37):
a rash of ship. Tim Kennedy, who is speaking on
much more emotionally charged stuff, he's talking about his experiences
in combat where it's naturally confused and muddled and and
and and charged. That's gonna generate a response, and it's
gonna be it's gonna be correlated with the level of

(01:34:59):
energy of the event. So again, I've never read anything
that he's written. I heard. The story I heard is
that he made a claim that he threw in one
engagement fifty grenades. Anybody who's been around now, I don't
know if that's true. I don't know if that's his claim.

Speaker 1 (01:35:13):
That is what I heard.

Speaker 2 (01:35:14):
That Okay, so I've you've carried grenades. I've carried grenades.
You would struggle with five grenades, much less fifty grenades.
Fifty grenades would be a massive, massive rocksack full of grenades. Uh,
that's I don't think that's physically possible, could it? I

(01:35:34):
don't know. Maybe I don't think so. So when I
hear something like that I'm like, Okay, that's probably a
little bit charged, that's probably that's probably a a an
exaggerated war story, but that's what war stories are, okay.
So so my my sort of take is is that
so I I used the war story as a literary

(01:35:55):
device in my books. I literally have chapters called war stories.
They're titled no Ship There I was, And they are
war stories that are designed to do what war stories do.
They They they tell a tale, they make a point,
they have a they have a moral a theme to it.
But I also am very clear in that I follow
the time honored tradition of a war story. It must

(01:36:17):
be at least ten percent true, at least ten percent
of the time. Man, that's a low threshold. That's a
low barrier. So h but once you as soon as
you publish it, now it must be reckoned with So
you know, I don't I don't make any claims for
for for things that that are in that are in
my books as being one hundred percent truthful. They are

(01:36:39):
for the most part. You know, I changed names and
dates to protect the innocent, including myself. But so so
I recognize that that that's a problem. But in the
community there is there is a natural backlash to that.
Nobody likes the nail that sticks up is the nail
that gets hammered. So if you're an influencer, you stick
your your nail sticks up. I find that self promotion.

(01:37:01):
I try to. I'm like the opposite of self promotion.
I tell guys, don't do what I did. Listen. Like,
like my advice that I give aspiring candidates is is
evidence based. It's not based on my opinion, like I
will tell you when it's my opinion, But I'm looking
at like peer reviewed research. I'm looking at what is
the what is the data, what is the evidence that
to my point earlier about logic and evidence, I want

(01:37:23):
to know what is what the evidence suggests and what
logic tells me about that evidence. So that's that's the
Those are the two fundamental elements of argumentation. So that's
how I try to present it. If I give you
my opinion, I will also make it clear this is
my opinion. So so I I try to approach it
from this evidence fact based narrative. And Tim Kennedy clearly

(01:37:44):
hasn't done that. That's not his stick, that's not his
that's not his his place. But I would argue that
that so he's going to get a bunch of pushback
from the guys in the regiment, guys like me who
are less reasonable than I am. And I'm a I'm
a I'm about as real bull as you can come.
And I'm a full blown dickhead. So imagine the guys
that are less reasonable, less reasonable being they're full blown

(01:38:06):
narcissistic pricks. Okay, so they're gonna have an opinion. Surprise, surprise,
Green Bays have opinions, and they are strong opinions. So
he's gonna catch a bunch of shit. But I would
make the argument that Tim Kennedy has done far more
good than his worst, than his than his exaggerated war
stories have done bad. That there are more guys that
are in the military and in Green and in the

(01:38:29):
Special Forces regiment because they were introduced to it in
some way, shape or form through Tim Kennedy than guys
that didn't. Okay, is that an excuse to exaggerate your
war stories. No, But but I I so I recognize
that it's a muddy environment. I'll just say that that

(01:38:50):
that that's the the that sort of hate is the
reason why I don't tell guys do what I did
the stories where I am. I am the story. I
am an observer of the events, and it's never about
what I've done. I don't think I think like most guys,
I don't think anything I've done is all that special.
I recognize that I was agree I am a green bray.

(01:39:10):
I did some special things, but I was just one
of many. There are thousands of guys that are that
did the same as me, and many more that did
much much more than me. So it's not about me.
It's about the regiment. It's about the story. It's about
the history, the culture, the lore, all that business. So
when a guy like Tim makes himself the center of

(01:39:30):
the story as opposed to being an observer of the story,
you're gonna catch some shit for that. So so that's
kind of my take on it. Right, So, I'm disappointed
that a guy would feel the need to embellish his stories,
but I also am disappointed that guys would be so
passionate about about attacking him personally for that. I say,

(01:39:54):
taking the tasks like like like. He can have exaggerated
the stories without being a horrible human being. He didn't
murder babies, you know what I mean, Like, like, let's
put it in context here. He exaggerated some war stories.
Call him the task if you, if you have a voice,
if you have a podcast, get him on your podcast
and call him out. Manned him in So, I work

(01:40:14):
with a lot of so my day job, I work
with a lot of retired special operators, and these are
guys that tip of the spear guys, and and the
smartest of them will say don't. I will never stab
you in the back. I will stab you in the chest.
If I have a problem with you, I will come
to you and I will direct it at you, and
we're gonna we're gonna solve this problem, man, de man,

(01:40:35):
face to face, and we're gonna get this thing sorted out.
And man, there's a lot of purity on that. That's
that's like, that's how that's how men behave you know,
bring back the duel. I always say, so, you know,
if if, if, if the duel, if I could call
you out and challenge you to a duel, we'd have
a lot less guys writing exaggerated war stories, and we'd

(01:40:57):
have a lot less guys calling guys out for writing
exaggerary war stories. If a guy's fucked up, call him out. Yeah,
but but but but don't do it from the cheap seats.
Call him on your show and say, here's my position,
you come argue your position.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
I will say they did offer that the Anti Hero podcast.
Guys did say that they're like, hey, Tim is completely
invited to come in, sit down, and let's discuss this.
And if he's like exaggerating, then just admit that you're
exaggerating stuff, because the problem becomes where if you are
a kid off the streets and you're reading his book
and you're seeing like one of the things that stood

(01:41:31):
out to me was when he was saying that they
were using an AC one thirty and smoked so many people,
that there was just a field full of bodies, and
that they were using trying to find heat signatures to
do dead checks on guys, like if they saw a
warm spot in the field of bodies, that he would
take a shot. I'm like, okay, that's that's a little ridiculous, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:41:52):
First off, it takes that body a long time to
get to the temperature difference, so you could you could
even distinguish that, So yeah, yeah, that kind of thing
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
And it's on the well and it's on the verge
of being a war crime, you know what I'm saying. Like,
so I see their point. They're like, hey, if anyone's
gonna hold other special operators, you know, accountable, then it
should be us. And like I said, the one of
the hosts is a former Delta guy, former Green Beret
and all that stuff, so it's like he's got the
credentials to be someone that's questioning stuff. And they did

(01:42:23):
offer for Tim Kennedy to come on the show and
talk about it. But I again, I see I see
their point. They're like, look, not only are you exaggerating one,
You've done so much already. You know, you're already a
Green Beret. I think he was on a SIFF. I
think he did multiple deployments and stuff like that. It's like, dude,
and this is a This is for people across the

(01:42:43):
military because a lot of people get out and exaggerate stuff.
It's like, whatever you did was good enough. There's always
gonna be someone that did more than you and somebody, Yeah,
don't church up. It never it never ends well if
you're churching up or lying about what you did while
you're in so that's one of their main points. And
the second one, like I said, is that they don't

(01:43:04):
want young guys that are coming in to think that
this is what it's gonna be about, Like you're gonna
go through the mental toll of seeing a field full
of bodies, and you know, it's like the stuff is
bad enough. You don't have to make the worst stuff
even worse either, because you make you make us almost
look I mean, they talk about it just it makes

(01:43:24):
us look like we're unhinged almost, you know what I'm saying. Yeah,
So I see both sides.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):
I didn't know I see it. I think there's merit
in both arguments. I I my my, so again though,
my my, My sort of default position is always is
that that that's family business. Keep it just because Tim
took it out of the family and broadcast it, keep
it in the family as long as you can. So

(01:43:51):
make that invite. And maybe they did, I don't, I
don't know they did it. Maybe they invited him and said, hey,
line by line, here's what we have issues with the
things that you said, and here's why we have issues.
Exhaust all of those avenues first, and if then you
still don't haven't reached the satisfy, satisfactory conclusion, then go out.
But but again, if you're a if you're on a podcast,

(01:44:12):
you've got to get clicks. You gotta get it people.
So so you're gonna you're gonna make a grand announcement,
and you're gonna, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna elevate
your position. So it's it's both ways. This is one
of the reasons why I don't have a podcast. This
is one of the reasons why I I choose is
my medium writing. I write books, I write Reddit posts,
I engage on on on Instagram, and I like to

(01:44:36):
write because I can control that message. I can edit
it before I send it. I send it when I
want to. I take great risk coming on a podcast
like this is because I'm speaking off the cuff and
like I don't have a scripture. I got some show notes,
but I don't have a script you know what I mean.
So it's like it's like I could say something out
of cuff. I'm certain there's some things that I said
today that that that my wife's probably in the other

(01:44:58):
room right and taking that note point, But you Jack, So,
you son up a bitch, so and.

Speaker 1 (01:45:03):
I don't send for those I may wonder, I don't
send questions out or anything like that. You know, I
do not.

Speaker 2 (01:45:07):
There is no author, there was no prep so so
you know, you run some risks there, but there's there's
also some authenticity there. I also try to be as
authentic as possible in my in my writing, I like
to tell the truth. I think guys can suss out
bullshit very quickly. So authenticity is important to me. It's
important to me as a man like that, I like,

(01:45:28):
I'm not going to tell you one thing. I don't lie.
Like that's just I don't lie. I will not lie. Now,
if cop pulls me over and tells me to ask
me how fast I was going, that's not a bit skilled.
I may not remember. I will mis mislight myself. But
like I don't lie, I don't accept it. But so
writing is the medium that allows me to do that.
So now I see that if Tim Kennedy has written

(01:45:52):
in a book, now I see, okay, that's a problem
because you control that it's probably a sixth book or
something like that. That too, so you probably running out
of material at a certain point. So so so I
am of the mind that that you should handle that
stuff in alse you should always always tell the truth.
And if you've lived the life of a special operator,
if you've been in the military, you've seen some of

(01:46:13):
the most absurd bullshit you could possibly imagine. That stuff
is worthy of telling. Right, those are what war stories
are for. So if you've been in combat, now you've
got another level of stories. If you've been in Green
Ray in combat and you had a career in the UFC,
you've probably seen shit that is Bizarres could get that.
That stuff should keep you in in stories for forever

(01:46:35):
and ever. So to to exaggerate and too and to
outright lie fifty grnad's like like that, so it starts
to get absurd. At that point, I recognize there's some
merit in their argument against that. So and then again
they're legit guys, guys been in Delta for for a while,
probably has a leg to stand on. So I recognize

(01:46:57):
all that, But but I also I'm not I also
reckon cognize that it is completely acceptable to not have
an opinion on that stuff. And because I'm this is
sort of my point, because I'm not and well informed
on I haven't read the book. I will not make
a statement about Pete Hegseth and his positions. I caveat
at all that with I don't know that's what he's saying.

(01:47:18):
So so I want to be careful about that stuff
because because I, you know, I don't have opinions on
ninety nine percent.

Speaker 1 (01:47:23):
More people need to be like that, be honest, be like, hey,
this isn't in my wheelhouse. I got life going on,
I can't keep up.

Speaker 2 (01:47:33):
But but to that point, though, there are things that
I am incredibly well informed on, like Special Forces Assessment
and Selection. I am a literal expert on that, so
I'm going to have very strong, well supported arguments about SFAs.
But like, guys will ask me questions about recruiting, and

(01:47:53):
I'm like, I don't know. I'm not a recruiting guy,
I'm an SFS guy. Guys will ask me questions about
the qualification course. I'm like, well, this is what I hear,
but understand that's not my that's not my wheelhouse. So
so it's a perfect accept position to to say I
don't know, but but tell me what your position is,
Like let's let's let's have a conversation about that, and
maybe eventually I'll become informed enough to have a strong

(01:48:14):
opinion on it. But that's my opinion on Tim Kennedy.
What I what little I do know. I don't like
what I've heard, but but I also recognize that stuff
gets exaggerated about what you say because I've been a
victim of it myself. Guys, the shit guys say about
me is so far from from accurate that you can't
even see accuracy.

Speaker 1 (01:48:31):
Yeah, I'm sure there's stuff about me out there that's
probably not good. And you know too, like when you
create media. I remember one time I got interviewed from
the Marine Corps. Times reached out to me to discuss
something about I don't remember what it was. I think
it was something with I don't know if it was.
It was something with the artillery community. And I told

(01:48:54):
the guy I was like, yeah, I'm more of a
forward observer, not really a cannon guy. You know, they
have a different lifestyle to explain what I saw their
lifestyle as canon guys, uh, from the outside looking in.
And he like completely took what I told him and
wrote like that, I it was just crazy, Like what
he wrote, it was like something I would never have said,

(01:49:15):
and said that I was like maybe I was on
fighting with him on the gun line or something like that.
I don't remember what it was, but I remember reading
it and being like what the F I was all
super bumped. I was like, this is the first time
anybody's ever asked for a quote for an article and
I gave a quote and it was fucked up.

Speaker 2 (01:49:29):
Never, you will never mistrust the media. You trust the
media until they write a story about yeah or you,
because then you'd be like, that's not at all what
I said, Like, I didn't do that. I never said that.
They they you know that's that because that's the game.
And it's like so that's why, that's why the New
Media podcast like like I I cannot deny what I

(01:49:53):
have said on this interview right here. You cannot deny
what you said. And because you didn't prepare me with
questions and I didn't have prepared answers, you're gonna get
the raws truth and that authenticity is what people love.
And we saw that in the last election. The podcast,
the social media, as as as the new media is

(01:50:14):
going to be the norm because that's how you get
the truth. You can't you can't manage narrative when it's
just the truth, the truth becomes the narrative. And so
new media podcasts are gonna be the future. That that
and and the citizen reporter guys like me who are
the expert I am not. When I write my books,

(01:50:34):
I don't have a ghostwriter. I'm the guy writing them.
Because I self published, I don't have an editor. My
editor is my wife. I don't have a publishing house
that I have to answer to. I don't have sponsors
that I have to I have to bend the need to.
What you get in my books is the raw, honest truth.
The downside is that you get spelling errors because I'm

(01:50:56):
a horrible speller, right, so so you get but in
that rawness, in that authenticity is real value. Podcasts are
a reflection of that. You know, what you get on
this podcast is very different than what you get on
a on an evening show. You know, on a on
a on the Jimmy Kimmel Show that's produced to an
inch of to within an inch of its life. What

(01:51:18):
this is is you hitting record, you calling me hitting record,
and let's go. And so there is real value in that.
And I think that's the future. And the cool thing
is is that is that there are podcasts like this.
Whatever your thing is for, whatever your passion is, there's
a weirdo out there who is writing books and has
a podcast on it and is willing to tell you

(01:51:38):
about their experience and is willing to answer those tough
questions and tell you all about the weirdness. It doesn't
have to go through the filter of a guy that
will interview you and screw up that whole thing that
you told them. It's just you telling it and there's
tremendous value in that. Guys love that process. So this
is the future right here. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:51:56):
Yeah, I love it, man. And it gives you like
like I can ask you a question if you if
it was on like the news or like a thirty
minute show on on you know, legacy media, you're gonna
get a minute or two of a snippet for the question.
Your answer is going to be like a small snippet.
And whereas this, I can ask you a question. Yeah,

(01:52:18):
And it's like a lot of times it's hey, what
what's gonna capture headlines? I'm gonna say the most crazy
thing is it's going to capture a headline and that's
what's going to get pulled as a snippet to get
put online. Something like this allows me to ask you
a question and for you to kind of consider it.
In us to discuss back and forth and talk in
depth about.

Speaker 2 (01:52:35):
Nuances, I have to struggle with the answer I did
not have. I was not prepared to. And I always say, guys, say,
what's the best podcast you've done? I say, I love
formastioning guys, because he's going to ask you a question
that you weren't prepared for. And in that, in that
as I wrestle with that, I mean, I'm over stumbling
and fumbling through that, like I'm reckoning with like how
to do how do I feel about Tim Kennedy? Like

(01:52:55):
I don't know? Let me like, I'm I'm literally talking
through my thought process. Guys hear that and go, oh yeah,
that's pretty good. There's some value there.

Speaker 1 (01:53:04):
Yeah, for sure. Well I've enjoyed it. Man, I really
have you coming on? It's been a this is your
second time on if I remember correctly, second right, you have.

Speaker 2 (01:53:12):
Done a repeat offender.

Speaker 1 (01:53:14):
Man, I have your book up on the bookshelf, but
you said you have a new one coming out. Where
can people find that?

Speaker 2 (01:53:18):
We do? Yeah, so I got three books out. So
Rock Upper shut Up is the descriptive guide the Special
Forces Assessment Selection. About a year ago we came out
with the follow up to that called shut Up and Rock.
And this is a prescriptive guide for a daily performance journal,
what to do every single day. Open the page tells
you how many push ups to do, how many pools
to do. I worked with a group of expert strength

(01:53:41):
and conditioning coaches. My endurance coach is a fellow Green Beret,
Dave Sue. He's former commander of the dive school down
in Key West. He is the lead endurance guy at
Coronado for the Seals. So the Seals, he is so
good that the Seals had to hire a Green Bray
to come teach them about endurance. So that that book
is out. And then right here in my hands is

(01:54:04):
the next book. This is called Never Get Lost, and
it is a land navigation book, a book about how
to a Green Berey's guide to land navigation. That is
that book is completed. It is at the publishers. We're
just waiting on the cover art. That'll be out by Christmas.

Speaker 1 (01:54:19):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:54:20):
That's that's that next book would be there. And then
in the next year. We have several more books. Again,
but my medium is writing, so I write, and so
where we have several more books. We have a Ranger School,
a Ranger Man Ranger Handbook version coming out. We have
a book for civilian rucking coming out. And so I'm
surrounding myself with experts and it's going to be in

(01:54:41):
my voice. And that's all coming out. And when those
books come back out, I'll come back. I'll come back
on the podcast and give you more bad opinions.

Speaker 1 (01:54:47):
Yeah, definitely, man, And that's all. Task Force Voodoo is
your website, right, Taskforce Voo.

Speaker 2 (01:54:52):
Voodoo is the website. You can read the first chapter
from each book there for free and uh, and then
the books are all available on Amazon.

Speaker 1 (01:54:59):
That's awesome, man. Well, I've enjoyed.

Speaker 2 (01:55:01):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:55:01):
Like I said, I've enjoyed the conversation. I've got your
your first book that we talked about when you first
came on. If people haven't check out that episode, go
back and we talk more about your career. And now
this this episode was more kind of general information, kind
of current events and stuff like that, and that one
is more career focused, gets a little bit more in
depth of your journey through and uh yeah, if people

(01:55:22):
want to check out my stuff, it's Jaycremergraphics dot com.
Instagram is Former Action News and Former Action Guys, both
of those. I am on Reddit. I barely bring it up.
I am on Reddit. There is a Former Action Guys
podcast subreddit. I think there's like twelve members on it.
It's like I do post all the videos and stuff
there or links to the videos there so that people
know that they're coming out, but it's not my most

(01:55:42):
popular page. So Reddit it's one of those things I
do work on. And your TF Voodoo on Reddit correct.

Speaker 2 (01:55:47):
Yeah, Voodoo on Ready, I'm I'm in the Mainstay and
the Green Braize and special Forces subreddit, So you want
to go there and get my hot take you there's
a great way to reach out to me and all
on Instagram as taf Voodoo as well.

Speaker 1 (01:55:59):
Check out all that stuff and that's it, man. I
really really appreciate the interview.

Speaker 2 (01:56:03):
Yeah, thanks brother, Merry Christmas.

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Ep. 223 | Dr. David Walton | Green Beret and Author

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 223 | Dr. David Walton | Green Beret and Author