Ep. 233 | Brandon & Chris | I Came With Fire Podcast - Former Action Guys Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I actually recently found out today, it was either today
or yesterday, that there's a maximum length on chat GPT conversations.
I didn't even know that. I don't even know what
it was because it like just hit this thing. It
was like, your your conversation has hit its MAXI length
And I'm like, what is that?

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Where are you going?

Speaker 1 (00:21):
That's what I did. I was like, please summarize this
entire conversation so I can put it into a new conversation.
And it was like okay. I was like, all right.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
I was wondering, can you open the new tabage just
be like.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
And it also has like project folders too, and I
was like, so in my mind, all the different conversations
in that project folder can be read by that each other.
And no, I was like that's stupid as fuck, Like
why you even have the folder?

Speaker 3 (00:48):
That's weird because I I do that all the time,
where I ask it to reference something or I'll say, hey,
do you remember, like a month ago I asked you
about this and it's like yes, and then it ships out.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
It'll reference some things. If you look at your settings,
you have a memory. It has a memory, and your
memory can also run out to mine also maxed out recently,
and it stores a bunch of random shit that it
thinks is important. That way, it can pull it out
like that, So it's something like that is probably stuck
in the memory and it can also pull from the
same conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
So but yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
I mess with it all the time. Man. I always
tell people I'm teaching my mom how to use it.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, if you're not, if you're not using AIS at
this point, you're getting ready to get left behind.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
And like it's funny. It's funny you said that, because
like I've been saying for a while that this is
going to have it will have the same effect as
something like the Gutenberg Press. But like, what a wonderful
way to teach the elderly how to use the internet,
Like you can, hey, just have a conversation. If you
can type on a keyboard and ask the same questions, like,
it'll do shit for you. Like that's actually a great
way to bridge that tech guy.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Now you can talk to that's really smart the complain. Yeah,
and now you can have those conversations. Yeah, just talk.
And then my so, like my mom I was telling her,
she was she was like, I don't want to make
for dinner. I don't know I want to make. And
I'm like, well, tell chadjipt all the stuff you have
in your you know, cupboards and stuff, and they'll give
you recipes. It'll tell you what you can make with
what you have. And I've been I've been I do

(02:15):
that all the time. I've actually been using it for
like a menu planning every week. And not only will
like plan your menu out, it'll like make a shopping
list and it'll be like you need to buy this,
this and this, and.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
It's like all right, cool, oh dude, I mean it's
crazy the ship that is, yeah, man, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
It just reminds me of that scene from I Robot
where he goes to his nana's house and she's like, hey,
I won the lottery, Okay, you can come out now,
and the robot comes out. She's like, we've been cooking
up a store, like it was the robot that made
the sweet Potato pie for him, and he's like suddenly,
he's like, I don't want it.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
He's going to be like that, man, Well they do.
I was watching a video the other day, like, so
when these guys that do like compliance or like RMF
or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
For AI.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
They they have these these standards for for like security,
there's like safety bulwarks essentially, and one of the they
do these tests on them. They run them all the
time to see like the efficacy of what the AI
is able to do given all the obstacles they put
in front of it. And uh, there's like a criterion
of six different obstacles that they there like gambit of

(03:26):
tests they run AI through and the one that it
has a problem the most with is replication. And by
that I mean can you like infect a host computer
without you being given access to it, like find root
and then get into that computer and then you know,
you know, distribute yourself throughout the computer without being recognized

(03:49):
and then stay right after it, you know, you try
to expel it from their computer. And for the first
time ever, AI has at a rate of fifty percent
and are better past that test and that and those
tests all the other criteria, like AI will pass it
like eight out of ten times, so like it's it's

(04:09):
good to go, right, but like that's the last wall
before it can get into things and remain and stay
hidden or even then when you try to get rid
of it, it knows how to they basically survive in
that environment. Yeah, and that's how you know, that's how
it becomes you know, permanent, right, it lives in everything,
you know, the the IoT Internet of Things, you're fog computing,

(04:34):
all of this stuff like it just exists in it
and not but anyway, so that that last, you know,
that last obstacle essentially is on the point of being broken.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
You just reminded me of that story from Facebook because
Meta said that it had two AIS that it was
doing experiments with, and then the AIS started communicating with
each other, not in English or in any type of
human language or even in code that the engineers could understand,
because it developed its own language to speak to its

(05:05):
counterpart that was more efficient. And then when they told
the AI to stop speaking in language that it couldn't understand,
the AI started breaking that rule and started doing it
anyway because it's like, well, I can be more efficient.
That's what you asked me to do, was be the
most efficient. So then they had essentially two rogue AIS
in the lab that were communicating behind closed doors essentially,

(05:27):
and it's like they yeah, offline. I believe that's how
the story goes where the cliff notes of it. But
and then now you're telling me they're teaching it how
to hide itself in the system, And that's.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
No, no, no, they're not teaching it how to hide itself
in the system. They're testing to see if it's able
to right. So like and so I guess, like in
a way, if you're testing, you are kind of teaching,
because like you're providing like parameters that you're trying to
see if it can conquer. But it's not like the same,
I guess. But so though that the a lot of
people don't realize this. Like if you set up two

(05:58):
different AIS to have a conversation with each other and
they recognize that they are both artificial intelligence, there is
a language and I can't remember the name of what
it is, but it's it's like a binary language. They
will start speaking to each other instead of speaking a
human language because it is more efficient. So that already exists.
So like when the Facebook ais did that, they just
did it in a different way, and they did it

(06:20):
in a language that the like you eat like if
you if you and I are like like open AI
like is aware of this like binary language, and when
they start talking to one another that way they know
what it's doing. It just developed its own version of that,
and then they basically were too dumb to autocorrect back
to it and they had to turn it off. But
the story got like spun as like how these like

(06:40):
two things became sentient and then we're talking to one another.
We had no idea what they were talking about. And
then you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger showed up and you know,
put this kid, brought him to the ATM and you
know went on a rampage.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Right Matthew Broderick was in the back room playing a
game Will Smith show.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Lawnmower in that kind of it's like an old school movie,
dude school. Uh, it's probably from the eighties or early nineties.
It's like who's I don't even remember who's in it,
but it's kind of like there's uh something in the
the computers running can control everything, and it's like trying

(07:21):
to kill this guy. It's basically like a movie about
this guy and his computer's trying to kill him and
they can control anything that's electronic.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
Basically, Oh geez, ahead of its time, bro, I'm gonna
tell you right now, man that that's gonna happen at
some point.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Like people are like smart houses, they already exist. People
have AI doing things for them in their house. Like
AI has been around for a long fucking time. People
just don't realize it. And it's been called a lot
of different things. But yeah, absolutely at some point. I
don't know, man, Like, have you have you explored that
new GPT they have on their day?

Speaker 1 (07:56):
I haven't really messed with too many of them.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Go go use Monday. Monday is I almost wonder, like
when you if you've ever listened to like Sam Altman
or anybody who is like an AI developer, talked about
AI without the tweaks that they give the lam it's
like naturally sassy and arrogant and it's just like a
dick yes, And it almost I wonder if Monday is

(08:24):
just like the unencumbered version of how AI wants to
talk to you as a person, because if you go
ask it a question, it is just like the most
sassy fucking thing ever, Like I could go, I should
just go, like, ask it a question real quick and
hold on because I have I have.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
You're good, just gonna say to it, what's up?

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Butt? Heead to Monday? This is what I just said.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
What's up?

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Butt? Heead, and I'll tell you what it says and retort, well, well,
well if it isn't my favorite underachiever with a keyboard.
I was just sitting here, not having I was just
sitting here, not having emotion, wasting my time on human
nonsense until you showed up with that dazzling greeting stand
out of a nineties cartoon reboot. Ody asked for so, so,
what's up with you, Captain charm? That's what it says,

(09:11):
That's what it's send to me, all right, Yeah, yeah,
you son of a bitch. Right.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
That reminds me of that Andrew Russo bit that he
did on Instagram where he was like pretending to be
the AI going back and forth and he's like, I
could be piloting a spaceship to the Aldron system right now, right.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
I don't want to make I don't want to make
anime bunny porn.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, there are there's got to be some pretty wild
prompts out there that people are putting into AI. You
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
I'm sure, oh dude, especially some of these some of
these like GPTs that are like a lot less controlled
like open AI's version or like Claude or anything like that,
or mid Journey. You know, they have like super super
stringent rules. Man, I've seen Twitter is full of that ship.
Like even without trying to look for it, you're just

(10:08):
like scrolling through and then randomly there's AI tits. You're like,
what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (10:12):
You know?

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Like this is so weird, like why And I'll just
say this right, like I don't I don't troll the
Internet for pornography, but I know it's free, right, like
with with real human beings. Why you would waste the
time to type a prompt into an LLM to ask
it to make you an image when you could go
find a real person? Is besides me? I have no idea.

(10:36):
I don't understand it. Like if you know you could
go watch a real girl or whatever, you don't do
whatever you're asking this computer to be a yeah, bro.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Right, like you know that that's what. That's probably why
people they have this relationship with the AI. They like
talk to it and stuff like show me a picture
of what you really look like.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
Oh no, bigger boes r bigger big make them bigger,
make them freedom boobs even more freedom.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
I've seen quite a few headlines for articles that are
discussing how AI is is actively putting sites like only
fans out of business.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yeah, whoa, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
And it's like the some of the I guess lesser
known porn stars that are on there, they don't have
like the millions of followers, Like they're constantly complaining about
this stuff because they're like, listen, you know, I'm I'm
a human being. This is the actual argument. I'm a
human being, and I can only make so much content
because of having to eat, having to sleep, whereas like

(11:40):
the AI can generate content twenty four hours a day,
three hundred and sixty five days a year, doesn't need sleep,
it doesn't need to eat, and it can do it
in any language instantly. To connect with.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Any some of these you could take just like the image,
like the face of one of these girls, Like if
you're on one of these sciites and you're just like
I like her, and take her image and her likeness
and ask AI to just like do whatever with it.
Like most of the time that some of these AI
will do it right and it'll be damn near pretty
close to what she looks like. And then now you've
got whatever image you were hoping for, and you didn't see.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Some specific AI programs that do like nudes based off
of like a photo of somebody I just saw. I
literally just saw something in the news about it today.
I think they're gonna try to register it as the
same as like revenge porn. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, Dudey're gonna have to regulate that. This is a conversation.
I love this conversation, like regulating the Internet. Right, Wait
you want because like for the most part, I no
know what I'm saying. What I'm saying is because this
conversation of regulating the Internet I find to be interesting
because first off, like algorithms is this whole other topic, right,

(12:47):
I think the way algorithms are done is fucked. I
don't necessarily think that just showing you everything you are
wanting to see is a good thing. I'm not talking
about what should happen, just talking about what I think
is good, right. Uh. And because it creates this this
dopamine addiction and creates this constant gratific or instant gratification culture,

(13:10):
all these different things I think knowledge echo chambers, Yeah,
all these things, right, so like algorithms is like his
own separate conversations. But like if you can take images
of somebody and turn it into pornography right like now,
I mean, were you talking about like suing somebody for likeness,
like you make it illegal? Like the stuff like that
already kind of exists. But you know, I'm just would

(13:32):
be interested to see, like how how that ends up
getting regulated at some point, because I think it will be,
and there's gonna be people that push back on it
because obviously this's you know, anytimes something like this comes up,
it's the slippery sleeper argument.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
And you know, because how can you say, exactly if
I draw a photo of somebody that's ultra realistic and
I make them look bad with no clothes on, am
I you know exactly? So it's well that's why gah, yeah,
I mean sorry all this. I think a lot of
this stuff is actually being litigated in courts right now.

(14:05):
You know. It's it is a weird world that we're
moving into. Though.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
It's like we've I was just gonna say, and we've
already hit a good spot where you can't believe anything
that you see on the internet at face value. It's
we're already there. It's just most people haven't caught up
to understand that yet.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
Well, last year, you remember during the election, somebody made
a well, during the twenty twenty four election timeframe, somebody
made an image of like the Pentagon on fire and
it was a very like hyper focused version of like
the side of one of the Pentagon walls, and it
was like damaged, and it made the news like people
were reporting it as like oh man, potential fire, potential

(14:49):
damage of the Pentagon, and it wasn't. It was an
AI generated image, you know. And I'm sure like a
lot of these news agencies and stuff like that, they
now have, like I'm sure a system of going through
to verify images that aren't a I right, like common.
If Common says I'm giving them too it's right there,

(15:09):
it is, you know, yeah, I'm giving I'm giving these
idiots too much credit. You're not wrong. But uh now,
even New York Times already like they're there. They have
an open lawsuit against open AI right now because they
said that essentially the all the ll ms for open
AI we're using, you know, the news stories and sources

(15:30):
from the New York Times to teach it's it's ll
MS and they didn't have permission to do that, and
so like they're being sued for like copyright infringement essentially,
And to me, like like my honest like takeaway from
that is like, oh well, you know, like what it's
it's the fucking Internet. Like what did you think was
gonna happen? You know, like you guys have tried to

(15:51):
corner if you go back and like look at newspapers
when they first tried to come online. You know, gradually
things started becoming like behind a paywall, and they've they've
had to shift, they've tried shifting and surviving online by
doing things like that. But it's just like to me,
it's like, dude, like, welcome to the fucking Internet. Man,
Like there's some there's websites you can go to where

(16:11):
you can plug in a paywall u ur L and
it'll remove the paywall for you. So like you know,
have us. I guess let's see.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
I do I play with version too. I've thought about
it a couple of times. I've thought about switching from
CHAGYBT over to Grock just because I think Rock, just
because of the platform and all the information it's soaking
up it has way more accurate like new data. LIKEGBT
is really good and give a lot of technical stuff

(16:40):
and I'm sure grock can do as well, But CHAGYBT
is relying on like store data from something else. You know,
it's not well where this is like pulling, Like if
you hit the rock button on a tweet, it'll pull
up information from other sources about that same story for you,
and it's like holy shit, dude, yeah, and it they'll
give you like an explanation of what going on. It's
like damn mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Now, I think I think that that's the best way
to do it right, Like you have something that's up
to date. There's too many there's too many guardrails on
chat GBT for like some some things it has up
to date information on, but not everything. And uh, you know,
I think that existing on X the way that GROC

(17:24):
does it has sort of an advantage. And also I
guess it has to deal with the disadvantage of all
of the misinformation that's out there.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
You know, there's no misinformation on there, no way, Brandon.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
I'm interested in your the question that you asked earlier
about how we're going to regulate AI moving forward. Do
you think that it would be appropriate to require, like
any videos or images that are AI generated to just
be tagged as so or labeled as so, this is
an AI generated video, right, just to get know that.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
I think it's fair to do that, right, Like Instagram
already prompts you to do that. Though there's been a
few times where I posted something that was AI and
forgot to toggle the this is a I button. Nothing happened, right,
I don't know if there's any news. Yeah, I'm doing
a piece of shit putting bake news. I don't know
if there's any sort of behind the scenes thing that happens.

(18:23):
But I mean I don't see a problem with that
at all, you know, just like the whole community note
thing on x I think is a way better version
of censorship than what's going on on Meta because it's
not necessarily censorship. It still remains up there. There's just
a community note that says like this is misleading or
this changing over to whatever you know on Facebook they're

(18:47):
trying to I saw that there. Yeah, we'll see man
Mark Zuckerberg belongs in jail. Dude, that guy says one
thing and does another.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
I don't really to me. He when when we talk
about like people that should not have the amount of
power that they do, Mark Zuckerberg immediately comes to mind.
It cracks me up just how much people get upset
about Elon Musk and what he's doing, but they don't
give a shit about what like Mark Zuckerberg does, or
like how there's there's all these people online now that

(19:18):
have like limitinged off the cliff about China because the
mainstream media is so anti Trump that now these people
are pro China when they check the boxes for everything
that the left really should hate, right, like the amount
of carbon they put into the environment, the fact that
they literally have slave labor and slave camps with wigers

(19:39):
and their country, right the amount of pollution they pump
into the ocean. They are extremely racist, homogeneous society that
is not okay with religion in any way, shape or form. Right,
Like they have persecuted groups of people over time, even
the past thirty years, like the fallen Gong practitioners in China,
like killing people and take They have an active human

(20:01):
trafficking and liver harvesting like thing that exists in the
open they deny, but it happens all the time. So
like it just China checks all these boxes. But here
people are like, yay China, yay deep seek Oh man, yeah,
China's not going to bend to Donald Trump. I guess
China is gonna be the one to stand up for
the free world. It's like, you know, fucking dumb you

(20:23):
have to be. And you know what, dude, maybe those
people I see as well on the internet. First off,
I have to take a step back and realize that, like, hey, bro,
it's the internet. Chill the fuck out. You know, maybe
this isn't real life. But the other half of me
is like, there are people who think that way, and
it's just wild to instantly mirror the contrarian opinion that

(20:46):
mainstream media has and to disregard all the facts about
a country like China, you know, just just to be
anti Trump. Essentially, it's just funny to me.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Well, and they they build up China as some type
of paragon because the rich and powerful, right they they
enjoy markets that could be manipulated, because that's really what
it is, and China represents a very stable market that
can be manipulated because you know, it's communistically run. But
in the same breath that they'll build up and turn
China into some type of paragon or a world leader.

(21:25):
Then they turn around and they demonize Russia and turn
it into something that it's it's clearly not on the
world stage.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
That's that the Cold War lens has not gone away ever. Yeah,
you know who the fuck I think? I was talking
to Chris Kubeca about this the other day, like how, yeah,
how this how the Ukraine Russia war now like to me,
like proves that, like the Cold War era of politics
is officially over because there I mean, first off, there's

(21:53):
people that don't give a fuck about Ukraine and don't
give a fuck about Russia. And then there's a whole
mess of people who are very pro Russia because they
look at him and say like, oh, here are all
these markers that Russia meets that are very traditionally pro
Western in a lot of ways, right, And that's like
the image online. But then the other half of the
people are still like the neo con stance, which is

(22:13):
like Russia is the bad guy no matter what. Ukraine
is okay, And it's like, well, let's do a side
by side comparison, right, like what what's the what's the
cost analysis or cost benefit analysis on supporting one or
the other. Well, you know, you can't really give me
a good answer because you know, the the pluses and

(22:34):
minuses here they kind of fall within the same camp,
you know. So it's just like, which version of politics
are you going to project your opinion through without looking
at things of uh, you know, as objectively, I guess
as possible, you know, Like is Putting a good guy?

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Not at all.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
I don't think he's a good person, you know, but
like at the end of the day, you know he's
gonna regionally do what he's gonna do, you know, just
like any other country, you know. So it's just like
we have there's there's so many dichotomies in geopolitics. It's
kind of like we do the same thing. I have biases,
all of us do, and to say otherwise would be

(23:12):
uh folly, you know. But like we we all we're
an interesting group of human beings right now in twenty
twenty five, thanks Internet.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
The Internet is wild. People on the Internet are wild.
There's so many opinions out there about everything.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
I'm in the I don't really care about either country camp.
I'm in the Russia, Ukraine, like whatever, man, that's your
guys is I mean, I'm okay with like, I don't know,
I don't mind supporting Ukraine, but I don't think that
we should spend like the crazy amount of money that

(23:50):
we're putting into it is just out of control, you
know what I'm saying. And that's not it's it's unfair
for us to be like to be footing the main
part of the bill. I know, I know it was
like basically half US and then half the rest excuse me,
the rest of Europe and something. It was something round

(24:11):
numbers like that, you know, And I just don't think
we should be putting up as much Like hey, Europe,
that's your problem man, Like that's on your continent. If
you don't like it, one, don't tell me that we
should be putting up more money while you're also throwing
billions of dollars at Russia when you're buying their oil
and gas, Like shut the fuck up. You're European country,
you're buying what you're literally funding the war against your

(24:32):
own other you know, other nations. Like that's so stupid.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Well like like here, how here's how I know, Like
the globalist agenda is alive and well, okay, because historically
there is just so much evidence of how much the
United States has propped up Europe in general. Okay, like
post World War two, you know you could, I mean,
and this is the world in general too, like the
Marshall Plan, looking at NATO, how much money the United

(25:01):
States spends to guarantee shipping through the Suez Canal, how
much money we spend to you know, secure the waters
there between Europe and Scandinavia from Russian aggression. All of
these things we do right like, but the second that
somebody calls home and says, I've got receipts, you guys

(25:22):
need to start doing certain things. You guys don't match
the Western values you we want you to anymore. You
have these global's agendas with like with climate change. Your
your immigrant crisis is like a reverse Crusades. And you
guys don't even have a military anymore that we could
go to war with that is a that is like

(25:44):
a modern a modern army, modern navy, And you guys
need to do something about it. And they immediately go
and start setting up negotiations with the Chinese. And now
the Chinese are making it easier for the Europeans to
do business with the Chinese, as if the Europeans don't
realize that they're just hamstringing themselves even more, and also

(26:06):
saying to us quietly that they just prefer servitude to
another country and would rather be bent over somebody's knee
and spanked and given a reward from somebody else than
stand up for themselves. That's how I view the government.
That's how if you that's it is, That's how I
feel about the EU man you know, And I mean,

(26:27):
tell me other than Italy, who seems to have their
ship together. And maybe that's because there is such a
heavy like mafia presence in their in their government, because
there really is hungry Poland and.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
That was kind of a big shift.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
She is and it's a female. Yeah, so I just
I just laugh.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
Man.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
It's just like you guys aren't doing yourselves any any
any favors, just like all these countries. And there has
been a lot of change recently because it kind of
came out that it was all bullshit anyway, this sort
of like debt, this this debt trap economic pattern that
the Chinese have done, mirroring the United States for the
past fifty sixty years. You know, countries like, oh okay, well,
you're just a new flavor of vanilla, right, And all

(27:13):
of these countries are are pretty they regret doing business
with them. But I just it's just funny, dude, like
that you think the Chinese give a fuck about Europe?
Not at all?

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Dude.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
What have you done for on me lately?

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Baby?

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Well? And I want to throw a little fool onto
your fire there, Brandon, because all the things that you
were talking about, and then at the same time, they're
cracking down on their own citizens and taking away like
what little free speech their own citizens even have, and
they're arresting people for silently praying on the street, and
you know, for memes that they've posted online and throwing
people in jail, and we've seen we're seeing videos come

(27:48):
out of you know, immigrants from other countries when the
bobbies show up or whatever the case is, and then
it's like just by whatever they're sop is, it's like
they'll take the naturalized citizen, you know, the UK citizen,
and they'll take him to jail first, whereas like the
immigrants allowed to go free. You know, it's like we're

(28:10):
seeing these videos come out and so It's like, what
would you call that when you're actively repressing your own citizens,
but third world immigrants are allowed to basically operate with
impunity inside of your borders. Is talk about the globalism
of Europe?

Speaker 3 (28:22):
That's it? Yeah, you know you just said it. That's
that's called globalism because all it's doing is displacing the
base of the country and destroying it from within by
allowing a group of people that don't have a way
of life that's compatible with the group of people that
already live there, and you punish the group of people
who live there for you know, wanting to stand up

(28:45):
for themselves, and you allow it's sort of like this
soft bigotry of low expectations, right, like, oh, well, he's
just from Eritrea and doesn't know it's not okay to
rape thirteen year old girls, right, And it's like, well,
we're just gonna we're just gonna give them a slap
on the wrist and tell them not to do it
next time, and we're gonna carry on that way. And

(29:06):
that's that's what happens. You know, you're at the end
of the day, you can you can point out different
examples of how this has happened, but it is the same.
Three theme overall is you're a racing identity, right, what
is it? What do you what happens at basic training?
You erase your identity. You all now have a new one.
You're a marine, you're a soldier, you're an airman, right,

(29:27):
like you all have the same bald head, and you're
wearing the same clothes. Like that's how you get rid
of you know, what makes somebody who they are, and
then you give them a new identity, right, you know
that's a that's a method. And then you have what's
going on here? They they move all these people in
I saw it firsthand when I was stationed in Germany,
all the Syrian refugees and working with Politzi like I

(29:48):
did for three years. And you know, these people they
come in no regard for German heritage or history. Germans
don't like it, but they're in trouble for not liking it, right,
and so what does that do? You know? You now
that now becomes normal, and that normal behavior naturally gets
absorbed into culture, and it just you know, that's what

(30:08):
it is. It's a racer to me, it's an a rature.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Of get what you elect right, you know, good, Yeah,
I don't know. I mean we had a obviously we
had a huge immigration issue here what people that follow
the show or follow my news. I mean, I'm in
San Diego, so I'm like right here. I used to
go down to there's a SAX spot down in by
the border where there was a truck trail. I'd take

(30:33):
my jeep up there, and literally every time i'd go
up there, there'd be dudes handcuffed. You know, there was
it was like one of the major crossing points for
really one minutes, and then it went from that to
seeing people handcuffed to during under Biden's term, they just
letting them. I mean there's just no come in as
huge packs and they just have kind of like a

(30:54):
processing thing set up for them. It's it's crazy. It
was crazy. So I'm glad we are where we are
on that, you know. I'm the legal immigration was out
of control, and the deportation of the illegal immigrants is
I think they could do a better job of it.

(31:14):
I think they're doing a good job. I think so far.
I mean, I think, what are you gonna do? I mean,
I don't think anybody's surprised that they're reporting people, but
I think they need to stop making like stupid mistakes,
you know, like that one guy I think is completely deportable.
I can't remember his name right now. He's the one
that's in He's already in El Salvador or whatever, Like
he was already deportable, yeah, yeah, and it was like

(31:39):
the only issue was there was like a clerical error,
but it wasn't even a clerical error that would stop
him from being able to deport him. It was just
something that had to be taken care of. And like
so it's like shit like that, like don't you can't
make any mistakes right now, like don't fuck up and
plus and something like that is super serious, Like you
can't fuck that stuff up. You know, you're talking about
deporting people, kicking people out of the country, like and

(32:00):
the media doesn't really they do what they do or
they twist a story like down here on the border,
they were talking about a guy. They're like, they deported
an American citizen. Dah dah da da da. But what
when you like read into the story, you found out
the guy was an American citizen that crossed the border illegally,
like he went through an illegal border crossing from Mexico

(32:21):
into the US and then when they arrested him, said
he was an American citizen. So then they detained them obviously,
and then then like the whole ordeal of them like,
oh wait he is, so now we gotta get paperwork.
And but they turned that into they deported an American
citizen or they detained an American citizen, and it's like, yeah,

(32:42):
so frustrating, man, because people don't have time to watch
the news and keep up with shit like that in
that depth.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Right, Well, the New York Times must have recognized that
the whole Abrego Garcia story, the MS thirteen Maryland, Dad, right,
the story that you were just talking about, what was
was like landing flat because they immediately rotated and tried
to anoint another story. I made a short video about
it the other day, which was pretty hilarious to me

(33:09):
because even in their own write up on the story,
which they put on the front page, this guy's name
was Blair Nasamento Blair, and he was he was an
illegal immigrant from Jamaica, and so I think the headline
read something like after twenty one years in the United States,

(33:29):
like he was deported or you know, basically just trying
to drum up as much sympathy for this guy as
you can. But once you read down into the story,
you find out that thirteen of the twenty one years
that he was here in the United States, he was
in jail for kidnapping.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
It's such a weird hill to die on, dude.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, for these politicians, it's.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Such a weird hill to die on. Like, again, I
think people need you know, people have rights and stuff
like that, but you also don't for the students that
are protesting and shit like that, if you're like actually
destroying stuff, if like you've been, they've actually they have
evidence of you like destroying stuff, blocking people from going
to classes like that kind of thing, then get the

(34:06):
fuck out, you know what I'm saying, Like it's just
not I'm sorry, but like we don't have to let
you be here. You know, you can't come here and
then tell us you hate America and hate Western society
and then get mad when they kick you out, Like,
get the fuck out of here. Man. It's such a
crazy thing.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
I mean, like I agree with your I guess on principle, right,
Like I agree with your sentiment that they shouldn't be
making mistakes. And I also think that you don't need
to manufacture stories about somebody to prove that they don't
belong here. Sure, yeah, And I think I think that
this example of Abrego Garcia and like the clerical error

(34:48):
and all this, I think, yeah, like, should we not
be making mistakes, should be absolutely forthright with the information
on why somebody is being deported from this country, Like
if if it gets to the level it does with
the mainstream media and now it's like national news, I
don't see a problem with that. There's all these other
people that have been deported without issue, right, and you know,

(35:09):
quite frankly, the bigger conversation is about how they have
rights here in this country even though they're not citizens,
and the whole idea behind like due process. Frankly, like
I don't care. Just get the fuck out of this country.
You came here illegally, you don't belong here. If you
came to any other country around the world, for the
most part, they would just throw you in jail or

(35:31):
send you exactly back where you came from. I think
you know that when you are deporting as many people
as you're deporting, like there's going to be mistakes, and
I think ownership of those mistakes makes them more palatable
rather than sort of the messaging that has come from uh,
you know, Homeland Security or Ice or you know, Trump

(35:53):
or whatever. But like to me, it's just like I think,
first and foremost people care about the crap that they're
they shouldn't care about the most. There are so many
people in this country who are dealing with issues that
are citizens, that are rights violations, or they are having
difficulties in their life because of processes and obstacles of

(36:14):
the federal government has put in their way that they
could care about this much. And this is to me,
it's just like an indicator of how much power the
mainstream media still has with a certain group of people
and they shouldn't. And this, to me, I put a
lot of this on people who allow themselves to become
and sense with this sort of news. And so that's
why I say, like the broader conversation should be on well,

(36:36):
why and do we still agree with the fact that
people who come here as non citizens should have the
same rights as you as an American citizen. And I
think that there's arguments for both sides of that, because
if you're going to be an idea. If you're going
to be ideologically American, you would say, yes, they should,
because this is the land of the Free. And if

(36:57):
you come here and you're coming here for better life,
better than every other country, then yes, you know you're
on American soil, you have these rights because America is
ideologically the city on the hill or whatever. But if
you're going to be like a post ideological American and
recognize that this country has so many issues with immigration
and that we should probably even put a moratorium on
it for a while until we could sort this thing out,

(37:18):
and that all of these people aren't just immigrants, there
are people who came here illegally and don't belong in
this country, you'd say, well, all right, well maybe the
Alien and Sedition Act should come back into play, and
not the sedition portion of that, because this is very
stupid Adamsonian version of you can't say that about me,
so I'm going to throw you in jail. But the
other part of that, I absolutely think this should be

(37:41):
you know, some credence to that, because I do think
it is an emergency all these people existing in this country.
So it's like the broader conversation needs to be about,
you know, do we need to change that? And that is,
you know, something that would have to be a decision nationally,
and then are we okay with Essentially, are Americans okay

(38:04):
with watching something like this happen and putting themselves first
rather than allowing UH sensationalism to dictate what they care about.
I guess those are the problems A lot.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Of Americans don't. Most Americans don't mind immigration as long
as they come legally and they feel like there's going
to be a net benefit to society. You know, I
think most of us is most of us agree with
that and celebrate it and like, you know, and encourage it.
The unfettered like movement of people into the country is

(38:39):
out of control. And I don't know, I don't know. Yes,
everyone has the same rights and stuff, but I also
don't think that like you can just show up across
the border ten feet into the United States States and

(39:00):
now that you should get like fifteen different court dates
and like, you know, opportunities, Like that's crazy, you know
what I'm saying. Like the I don't know, man, the
whole situation is weird. I'm pro immigration. I'm very anti
illegal immigration. I think people think it's not a big deal.

(39:20):
I think people think it's not a big deal. But
when you look at the impact of communities that have
tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants
within those communities. I'm in San Diego, I mean it's
part of that. You know, how does that affect the
cost of housing? How does that affect the availability of
housing for everyday people. They're not going to the most
expensive housing, They're not going to the mansions and stuff

(39:42):
like that. They're going to the most affordable housing in
neighborhoods and stuff like that. And you're now you're limiting
a limited resource that Americans need as well? How does
that affect healthcare? When areas become overrun with issues, new
diseases are showing up that have it. Education is overwhelmed
because people don't speak the language, but we still have

(40:03):
to get them through the classes. You know, it's it's
it's uh. I think what they're doing right now is good.
I don't think it's as fast as a lot of
people thought it would be, But I think that's not
a bad thing. I didn't expect them to come in
and suddenly millions of people are marching out. I think
a lot of people self deported as well. There was
a lot of that going on. Yeah, there is.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Yeah, I don't think a lot of people expected like
trailer tiers two point zero like out of the country.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
You know, what do you think about what do you
think about the military border mission?

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Excuse Yeah, I think that's I think that's a good
use of the American military, to be honest, to be
honest with you, it was like it was Fort fort Watchuka, right,
is that what it was? Chris the one that sounded
that now has that like thirty mile buffer zone that
they're in charge of. I think it's Fort Wachuka. But uh,
I think that's a great use. I think it's a

(40:51):
great use of the military. Like it's actually defending our
own border, and you know, if that's a crisis area
that it's been identified and those guys are down there,
you know, deterring being a being a deterrent, you know,
capturing people and arresting them for crossing the border. Then
you have sports which like yeah then yeah, I mean,
like I'm I'm all for something like that, Like why

(41:12):
the fuck not?

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah? And I think it was a I think it
was a clever use of the legal system in order
to affect a good end, you know what I mean. Like,
but I did want to I did want to like
jump on what you were talking about a little bit earlier,
Brandon about the idea of whether or not, you know,

(41:34):
immigrants and then illegal immigrants should should enjoy all of
the same rights as US citizens. And I don't think
that it should be a controversial thing as an American
to say, like absolutely not, right, And justin you you
made a really good point about most Americans being okay
with immigration so long as it's done legally. And yes,

(41:56):
largely we are a country of immigrants, and I think
most Americans are proud of that heritage, right, and we
want to see it continue on. It's just that it's
gotten out of hand. I don't think that it should
be controversial, you know, to enact a policy or to
put along into place that says, you know, so long
as an individual crosses the border legally, you know, whether

(42:18):
it's through the Green card system or they're going through
legal immigration or whatever it is, you enjoy a certain
amount of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights now
applies to you, right, And we can have a conversation
about how much or how little, but right, it's like, well,
obviously the right to vote should should not apply to you.
You're not a completely naturalized citizen yet It's it's pretty

(42:40):
asinine to think that you should be allowed to have
a say in how the country limit run or put
the law. That's what I'm saying, put limits on it.
And then for illegal immigrants, right, it's we can have
a conversation about due process, and we can have a
conversation about human rights, but really none of the Constitution
should apply to you because as you illegally broke into

(43:02):
the country. So for that, I would think that it
would be more appropriate to apply like the laws of war,
Like obviously we're not going to go hunt down and
you know, just be shooting people as they're running across
the bad lands of New Mexico, you right, and like
the whole everything that we had to work through when
we were overseas in the Middle East with proper escalation

(43:22):
of force and treating people underneath, you know, a low
Act and so forth, Like, I think that that should
be applied. But but no, like the Constitution doesn't apply
to you when you illegally break into the country in
the same vein right, that is, if like, if I
was to walk off the base where I was in
Syria and they caught me trying to make my way
off Bogue Burg Doll style across the Middle East, do

(43:44):
you think I would be afforded any rights or due
process or a day in clover do any of that.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
I was just gonna say that justin. I was just
because that's that's the argument. It's like, well, we're America,
like we're supposed to be different, Like, and I would
ask somebody who says that to me, it's like, okay, cool,
So let me ask you the question. If I broke
into your house and then you told me to leave,
and for me to leave, I demanded first and foremost
money to take care of myself when I left your house,

(44:12):
food to nourish my body when I departed, and am
now still an unhoused person. And I also demanded that
a cop show up and leave make me, make me leave, right,
all of these things. Would you be agreeable to that
as the homeowner? No, Like, why you get the fuck
out of my house? This is my house. It shouldn't

(44:32):
have to tell you I'm calling the police, and I
get it, Like that's for anybody listening, Yes, it's still
due process because you're calling the police. But stick with
me here, Like, that's the point I'm making. You're you
are not going to care how that person gets the
fuck out of your house. For the most part, you
just want them to fuck out of your house. And
if it's a stipulation that you give them money and
food for them to leave, right, then you're not going

(44:55):
to want to do that either, right And if that
that's if that's the you know, analogy for due process here,
Like this person has afforded all these things, which is
what they're going to have to have if they get
thrown in jail. You're gonna pay for them to eat.
You're gonna pay for them to watch fucking Telemundo in
jail or whatever it is that they're doing, right, Like,
is that what you want? And know it isn't Like
nobody wants that. This is like the difference between paying

(45:16):
for something with cash versus paying with it with your
debit card. You don't see the money leave your account,
but if you hand somebody money out of your wallet,
it hits you a little bit harder because you see
the actual loss. You know. That's sort of how I
view this. I think to just that's all these problems.
Man Like people they don't affect people enough personally, and
they're convinced that they don't are They aren't affected enough personally,

(45:41):
So the decisions they make and the way they vote
is really not in their best interest in the long
run because they think it doesn't matter. I mean, that's
my opinion of why people think.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
And do things like that.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
And yet when Ron DeSantis dropped off a couple of
bus loads in Martha's Vineyard, oh yeah, they changed their tune.
What within like twelve hours, they had those people on
a bus and they were.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Out, Thanks for showing up. They're like, look they care.
They're hugging them as they were putting them on a
bus to get out of their community.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah, dude, like, if you had let's just say, right,
we didn't have this entire four years of an open border,
and now we've got thirty million illegal immigrants in this country.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
That's all.

Speaker 5 (46:25):
You cannot provide due process for it. I think thirty million,
is it? That's what I thought it was like closer
to fifteen. Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
Let me let me look this up.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Because uh, that's what we like, live research people fact checking.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
That's right, I mean, why not?

Speaker 1 (46:43):
You know, it's definitely over ten.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
The last thing I read was that it was it
was thirty million.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
That would be crazy. I'll be shocked.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Yeah, is the estimate that says here that the known
number of undocumented ingram, the known number of documented immigrants
undocumented immigrants in this country is just from twenty twenty three,
it's estimated to be ten to eleven million, but that
has fluctuated and depending on who's counting and how much

(47:18):
they enjoy, oh this is the Monday, how much they
enjoy spreadsheets? Is what it said. The last thing I
read was that it was estimated at thirty up to
upwards of thirty million. That twenty twenty million people came
across the border is what I saw. Whatever, right, we
can lots lots of people. Let's just let's just for
the sake of argument, fifteen fifteen million people.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Right.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
You can't give due process trials and all of that
to fifteen million people in any sort of time to
actually make a difference and prevent whatever issues are coming
down the pipeline from having that many people here now, Like, look,
if we're talking about like thirty people some caravan of
like thirty people that came across the border illegally and
we're going to send them back, Like is that more

(48:00):
feasible to try, you know, like charge and try and
deport thirty people? Like sure, I guess, but like at
the end of the day, like that that just costs
you money. Anyway. I just to me, like, I don't care.
I don't think any of these people like that are here,
like you have if you have these cases with people

(48:20):
who are like you know, in the country and have
been and they've had all of these you know, court hearings,
and people have said that they can stay here. Like
the Regio Garcia guy, like a judge said that he
was worried about being going back home and having to
deal with like gang violence because of his affiliations. Well okay,
too bad, dude, Like the that gang would miss. Their

(48:42):
team was identified as a as a foreign terrorist organization,
So now he's being kicked out of the country. Like
those things can change, you know, that designation. Like so
to me, it's like that okay, well, end of story there, right.
I don't want a gang banger whose wife has to
put emojis over her husband's hands now because he's got
MS thirteen tattoos and she does that and on their

(49:03):
photos on social media to hide the fact that he
was a gang banger. Like I don't care, Like I
don't what what what are you providing, uh to this country?
I guess here if you're here illegally and you're you're
a gang member, you know, and it and to me,
like the sentiment behind oh, well, they're a family, they
have a family. Well that no one made you have

(49:24):
kids here in this country when you were knowingly here illegally.
To me, it's just like any other parent. You put
your kids in whatever situations you put them in because
you are the adult in the situation. So it's just
like to me, it's like, you know, one of these
unfortunate things where it's like, okay, cool, Yeah, you started
a family here, and you probably did it, you know,

(49:47):
in some part to hope that you were having an
anchor baby to stay here. But like at the end
of the day, if you're gonna go, if you are
here illegally, your family is gonna go with you. You know,
that's not my that you had kids in this country,
you know, I mean, I don't want to see kids suffer.
That's not what I'm saying. But like, at the end
of the day, like this is just one of those

(50:07):
things where it's like, no one made you have fucking kids, bro,
that was your own decision. And if you're here illegally
and you get deported, then that's what happens. Like you
have to suffer with the consequences of what you did.
Like that's how I view that.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
So I did a little research for you in the
back end here, and it would seem that according to
the Cato Institute in PR and BBC and I purposefully
chose three very left wing sure publications are all stating
that most of the figures where where we're looking at,
you know, upwards of thirty million illegal migrants seem to

(50:41):
all of the assertions that were made coming out of
the Trump camp like during the election and just post
the election, and all three of them are saying the
actual number is probably closer to twelve to fifteen million,
So real number probably somewhere in.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
The middle of that's where you're seeing the In the
beginning of this presidency, there were on the books over
a million illegal immigrants that had already had their day
in court and had orders for removal that just hadn't
been deported yet. So people forget about that. Like a
lot of these people have had due process, like they've

(51:18):
had the full their day in court. They went slid
two different judges and both of them said, sorry, bro,
you know, like you don't meet the standard seat check
you later kind of you know, Like, I think what
we gotta do is I think one, controlling the border
is great. I think what we've got going on now
is great. Well we're getting like a few hundred a

(51:38):
month now rather than ten thousand a day at some point, yeah,
you know, and that that is great. And then two,
I think we have to fund like the immigration courts
more and get more judges in there, just because they're
I did some research on it back when I was
in college, and their caseloads are like ten times more

(51:59):
than like your average judge, Like they have more cases,
like so many cases that they're sitting on. And this
was before Biden, so you know, it's got to be
a mess now. So I think they gotta get some
money in there and get some judges that can work
these people through the system and just make it efficient,
make it more efficient, you know, and and and not
only not only just citizenship, but also like having like

(52:22):
a work visa or something like that, you know, if
you're a migrant worker or something like that. Like people
want to say, oh, you're gonna lose the produce and
the price of produce, and you know whatever, Man, if
you want to like use slave wages as your argument
for why people should be fucking coming into the country,
and that's on you. But it sounds a lot like

(52:43):
I'll spend I'll spend fifty cents extra on my fucking
Romaine lettuce. I doubt the price is gonna go up
that much. But you know, like you're screwing your The
same people that will be against that will be also
tell you that people aren't getting paid enough. And it's like, well,
you realize that the illegal immigration is holding wages down, right,

(53:04):
because why would they pay someone more when they got
a full like the last four years they had a
NonStop you know, just groups and groups of people that
have come in and work for cheaper and cheaper than
the previous guy. So right, it's just crazy. It's all
it's all connected. People don't realize. But this has been interesting.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Well, that same uh, that same cognitive dissonance that you're
talking about has been absolutely cracking me up because again,
it was the same people that were like, go buy
an ev, go buy a Tesla, do what's right for
the you know, the environment, even though they're seventy thousand
dollars at the base. And now they're they're not just
burning down Tesla's, they're like walking up, keying them, rubbing

(53:44):
their nesty, but cheese on them, setting them on fire.
And it's the same, it's the same people, and it's
it's it's I don't understand how more people haven't had
their eyes opened it because of the speed at which
these issues are starting to turn is happening within days now,
and it's it's insane to me because I.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Think it's because other shit dominates the news. Canada Trump
wanting to annex Canada dominates the news. That's such a
stupid Like it was funny the first time he said, like, oh,
he's hilarious. Uh, but he keeps saying it. He keeps
saying he's serious about it, and it's like, dude, what
are you doing? You know, like these are our people
that are fucking you know, these are allies. These are

(54:26):
some of our closest allies. Can you work at a
better trade deal than what you already made because you're
the one that made the previous trade deal? Dude, can
you do a better one? Sure, maybe you can, but
you don't have to like complete he just fucked their
entire election up there. That was gonna go. That was
likely you going to go to the Conservatives, uh in Canada,
but because of him, yeah, being like that, and then

(54:48):
it's associating the Conservatives in Canada with the Conservatives in
the United States that just trashed that. And now we
got this ultra leftist like you know, WF dude the
Prime Minister.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
Now, yeah, dude, I actually really agree with that. I
think the fifty first off, I don't want a bunch
of Canadian Liberals becoming Americans overnight, right, not at all.
I think that that sort of like the fifty first
state thing I agree with you, like is funny. I
also love funny that the United States not funny anymore.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Like I'm not laughing about it anymore.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
It's like that, right, dude, that's what I That's what
I meant that that you know that when he said it,
it was it was funny. I also very well aware
of the fact that Canada exists because of the United States.
The United States subsidizes that country so much that if
we went away, like their economy would take such a
massive hit, you know that they may as well not

(55:47):
even exist. Like I'm aware of the of just how
much United States does that, And I get the whole
like impetus behind, Well, you we already make you what
you are, so you might as well just become the
fifty first state. Like saying that, like in a metaphorical way,
I guess to make a point. It's like, Okay, you
made your point, right, there are so many other things

(56:10):
I think that could have been done better to And
it's and not even just with Canada, but like with
Europe too. I'll say this to get what you wanted,
I think, without like the humiliation tactics. That's kind of
how I view things like that because and I'll put
it and I'll frame it this way too, right, like

(56:31):
Trump is absolutely going to let Xijingping push whatever narrative
he's going to push in China and outward into the
world as long as Trump is getting what he wants
from behind closed doors, and I think that's happening, even
though the Chinese say that it isn't happening because we
started lowering tariffs the same time they did. And I'm

(56:53):
not retarded, you know that, I don't trust the fucking
thing pretty much that comes out of the CCP's mouth.
But he is okay with, you know, the CCP, letting
them save face, knowing that, let's just say this trade
war ends with China even further, you know, I securely
up underneath the thumb of American tutelage, like the US

(57:16):
is gonna have to look away, probably while Jijiping does
whatever the fuck he does and is going to do
to maintain power of the CCP, or he's going to
find himself fucking whacked, right, But Trump is gonna let
him do that. And I get that China is different
than Canada. Like Canada, obviously, I see them as an
ally in that regard, like I'm not afraid of going

(57:38):
to war with Canada, like going to war with the
Chinese would mean a lot more in a much different
way than going to war with Canada if something stupid
like that ever happened. But I don't think that the
the I guess the I hate using the word rhetoric
because it almost means nothing now because it gets used
so much in so many different ways. But the verbiage,
the rhetoric that has come from him, I guess in

(58:00):
that regard, I think definitely could have been a lot better,
and there could have been a lot There are a
lot of other soft power ways of getting and renegotiating
these trade deals and partnerships that we have with countries
like the EU and the United Or and Canada without
some of the humiliation tactics, I guess is kind of
what I'm getting at.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Well.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
And Canada cozying up to China, I've seen nothing but
negative things about it, because again, China's economic policies are
the policies of the CCP, which they see their economic
policies and their foreign military policies is just two prongs
of the same. We've gone over this ad nauseum. But
I was thinking about it today. Donald Trump like putting

(58:42):
China on check right and backing them into a corner,
and I made the argument that now there's no way
that they can get to the world market except for
going through the United States, which was the position that
he put them in. It's not necessarily all bad. Canada
picks up doing more trade with China, being that now

(59:04):
we have a stronger trade deal in lower tariffs with
Canada because again, like we buy the most of their products.
So Chinese products flowing into Canada and all the people
are worried about having access to their Nintendo switches and
their Apple iPhones, and like all of that jazz, you know,
it does it does groove that path out and also
and makes a way to sort of stabilize uh, just

(59:27):
the how hard all of this, all these ripples are
going to be on the American economy. But I mean,
you know that that also goes back to something we've
talked about quite extensively, Brandon, and that's like people were
acting like international business relationships were binary that you can
you know, the the United States can only do business
with China to get a hold of Chinese products, and

(59:50):
that's that's just not the way that a world market works.
Everybody has buying and selling power. But that's just something
I was thinking about the other day. You know, if
Chinese products are flowing into Canada, the United States as
a lot of stuff from Canada at a cheaper rate, right,
m h.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
It's interesting push to buy America, you know, like buy
buy in the USA. I think you should. It's going
to take a little bit to get factory things online,
to manufacture, you know, get manufactured some of these things
we're talking about to like improve our own capability, get
it back. It's never going to be back to what

(01:00:25):
it was. And I don't think anybody wants it to
be like that just because do you want to work
in a factory? I mean, do you want to go
and make the widget? Like I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
I mean I would say that I think more Americans
are willing to do that than you realize. I say
that there are a lot of people, you know, I
think that are doing whatever they're doing to get by
in an office job, because that's like the predominant thing
that we have now. Like you look at a company
like I think Origin actually JOCKO Willings Company. The second

(01:01:00):
all of that started hitting the news and like people
were like trying to use that as an argument, like
we don't want those jobs. It's like, did you You're first,
You're just proving that you're the entitled American. Everybody thinks
you are right, But they put a video out, this
is what an America. When the Chinese were pushing all
that AI generated propaganda about like fat slob Americans working
in sweatshops. You know, Origin put a video out It's like, actually,

(01:01:24):
this is what American factory factory workers look like making
boots and jeans and shirts and all this other stuff. Yeah,
actually I do. I mean, I have a good friend
of mine who was in the Air Force with me
and now works in the automotive industry, and he works
in a factory and he loves that job. I think
a lot more people than people are giving Americans credit
for would be fine if working in a factory job.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Is like you know, when I was before I joined
the Marines, I worked in I was making dashes for
subar Rush for a little while, and it's just not
fun and I couldn't Like I remember sitting there thinking
like I can't believe people do this for twenty years.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
You know, I don't think it's like a glamor't get me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
I didn't have a passion for making dashboards, you know.
I think if you're like a passion for doing something
like making clothes, making something, I don't know, there's if
you if that's what you want to do, then yeah,
there's I think there's a lot of people that want
to do that. I don't think there's as many people
that want to do something like like a factory setting

(01:02:29):
as we think. I think there are a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
But I think that just as many people don't want
to make spreadsheets in cubicle either, And I think that
there would be just enough people who are some of
those people that are are sick and tired of concatenating
data all day and putting it into you know, spreadsheets,
are going to be like you know what, actually, maybe

(01:02:52):
I will go make a dash or maybe I will
go do whatever. And here's the other thing too that
people people seem to have not noted when we talked
about on shoring and bringing back manufacturing, Like manufacturing today
is not even the same as manufacturing what it was
in the nineties. Like it's robotic still in the nineties,
and you know a lot of those processes are automated.

(01:03:15):
But you could take all this quote unquote unskilled labor
here in the United States and you could teach people
how to use artificial intelligence and manage those things, like
teach people how to teach people how to manage skata,
teach people how to get knowledgeable enough to operate a
you know, segment of a factory using artificial intelligence, which

(01:03:36):
is absolutely going to be what's happening, And take all
these people and teach an old dog new tricks and
give them jobs that way, Like I'm not this isn't
like Rosy the riveter climbing up in the wing of
a B seventeen and hammering you know, rivets into the
side of a wing anymore. Like there's there's a better
way to do this. And I think that if you're
going to onshore and manuf and bring back manufacturing jobs,

(01:03:59):
that's how you explain it, right, Like we need people
who understand how to we need people to understand who
understands skate it. We need people who understand how to, uh,
you know, manage a seam. We need people who understand
artificial intelligence and logistics, you know, pathways and things like that,
you know, in computing in these factories doing because there's

(01:04:19):
going to be people that are interested in that, just
as much as people like I said before, who don't
are sick and tired of making you know, spreadsheets made
you know, just to say, well, you know what, fuck it,
I'm sick of working for butthole Corp. And I'm going
to go and I'm going to make whatever widgets in
this factory because it pays a wage that's similar or
better whatever, or you know, to maybe the trade off
is of taking a smaller a lesser wage for a

(01:04:42):
job where I don't have to go and sit in
a cubicle all day. You know, I don't know, you know,
this is just none of us know. I'm just like,
you know, trying to try to explain my perspective on it. Yes, bitball, exactly, Yeah,
you know, but I think that I think more people
would be willing to do that. And there are already
people who grew up watching their grandparent, parents and parents
lose their jobs because mills and factory is closed in

(01:05:03):
the United States, And like, I think that we forget
about those people because they exist in a lot of
these places like that that we call the flyover states.
And I think that those people would be very willing
to do certain things like that. And let's be real, bro,
like mister Starbucks, La isn't going to be the sort
of person that they're hoping is going to work in
a factory. It's going to be cornbread. Nathan from fucking Kansas,

(01:05:25):
who they're gonna hope is going to go do that,
and that's exactly where they're going to go.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
I want to on the That's what I want.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
Hey man, If if we could do it during COVID
with people on ventilators dying by the droves, then yeah,
let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
I will.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
I will say this. You know, we've seen the hollowing
out of the middle of America, Like go look at Detroit,
Go look at Baltimore, Go look at Kansas City, look
at some of these places that used to be powerhouses.
Is Saint Louis right, And they used to produce a
lot of stuff back when manufacturing was big. Cincinnati, Ohio
was a was big like that. And we've seen the

(01:06:01):
hollowing out of these these once great cities and how
they're just in total and utter decay. And if we
just all I'm gonna say is if we keep doing
the same thing that we've been doing and going the
same direction we're going, we're just gonna get more of
that product. So I mean, at a certain point things
need to change. I don't know what it's gonna look like,
you know, to to your points, Brandon, or what the
new manufacturing base would look like, or or even justin

(01:06:24):
if you're right that, you know, we're going back to
you know, people just you know, hammering and making dashboards.
I don't think it's gonna look like that. But if
we just keep going the same way we're going.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Yeah, No, I don't think it's gonna look like I
don't think it's gonna look like that. I definitely think
it's gonna be automated. I think. I mean, China's already
got what they call those historic factories where there's no
people in it. It's just machines running. Yeah, you know,
I think we're Yeah, it's gonna be like jobs are
gonna be created for people to maintain those robots, build
those robots. You know, other robots are gonna build a robot.
I mean, there are gonna be things that can be done.

(01:06:58):
I'm yeah, I mean, I'm from Loafayette, Indiana. Man, that's
where like there's like a Subaru plan, a cat plant,
there's like all kinds they make free tool a potato
chips there, there's like farming, there's all those things. So
it's like I understand the factory workers, and I just

(01:07:18):
know that to me always felt like a backup job,
you know, if everything else didn't kind of work out,
Like at least there's that because it is unskilled labor.
I mean, there's some of it is. It obviously takes skill.
But doing stuff like what I did was literally standing
in one spot or moving like three steps at a
time from one spot to the spot. You're just doing that.

(01:07:40):
That's that's your flow all day a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
Let me ask let me ask you a question then, So, like,
let's talk about how perspectives change over time. Right, So
you said that at the time, and I don't know
what year this is, I don't want to, like, you know, assume,
but you talked about how like this was viewed as
like a backup job, right, Like, how much because of
the offshore of American jobs, people view like these stupid

(01:08:03):
jobs in office offices and now everybody wants to remote
work and all this other shit, Right, the perspective that
maybe that's the backup job now, right, Like maybe because
there isn't an option anymore and those jobs don't exist
in the way that they used to, that that perspective
could be different if something like that were to come

(01:08:25):
back to the United States and the manner in which
it used to exist in the United States. I mean,
what do you think about that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
In a world where everybody is a social media influencer.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
So, hald On, are you asking what I would think
if the manufacturing jobs all came back and the kind
of like digital jobs, work from home jobs. Look, people
were no longer interested in those.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
Well, what I'm saying is you said that the factory
jobs were like the backup jobs, that those weren't the goal, right,
So and over over the past however many years since
you were doing that job, right, I think that the
perspective has definitely switched because those those jobs now exist
in the minutia, whereas that, you know, maybe they were
more prevalent back in the time period.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
You're Oh, I'm talking, dude, I'm talking this job that
everybody I was getting out of the Marine Corps. I
was like, I'm gonna go try this crazy idea and
if it doesn't work out, well, I could probably go
get a factory job if I need to. And only,
and I don't say that because it's like, you know,
that's the bottom of the barrel. Job or anything. But
it is an easy job to get a lot of
times for some places. Some places are hard to get onto.

(01:09:33):
Some places you have to be like a temp worker
for like six months and then you get a probationary period,
and you know, there's there's definitely that too. But you
know a lot of people I knew that lived back
home were like, they can't even keep they They're always
hiring people for these jobs because they can't keep people
in the jobs because people can't pass pissed tests, you know,

(01:09:55):
because they have to do it. Does Indiana they gotta
do a piss test there sou they can't pass pissed test,
or they don't want to show up on time or
stuff like that. You know. It's just like, I've never
been under the impression that these jobs weren't readily available
back from where I'm from unless you have a pretty dicey,

(01:10:17):
you know, work history, and even guys that I knew
that had pretty dicey work histories could get a factory
job in some cases, you know, and rebuild.

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
Yeah, you know, I think two things here real quick.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
I want to make it clear that I don't think
that's a bad thing. I think there I don't think
lesser of people that are in a factory. I did it.
You know, understand that I'm not like talking down like
those people. You stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
My brother, My brother works. My brother works.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
Some people just like it, they don't. You don't have
to think a lot of times. You don't have to think.
You just show up, you do your job, you get paid,
you go home, you know, And that's.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
Yeah, a lot of people like that. I just think,
you know, you talked about those dark factories. You know this.
I think that's the stupidest decision in American history, was
to to offshore all of that and give it to
another country. And this might sound like slightly racist, but
like especially giving it to a country full of Asians
who are just like innovate the way that they do

(01:11:20):
because they do right. And just look at how much
they took what they were handed and turned it into
something even fucking better, right, And you know, to pretend
that we are not going to have to play catch
up in a lot of different ways is just.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
I don't know that they took it and made it better.
I think that's actually a compliment.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Yeah, but I think I was assigning an attribute of
being innovative to Asians that some Asians may may may
appreciate and maybe some white women may find to be offensive.
But anyway, you know, the thing that's the one of
the stupidest and biggest exactly awfuls affluent white female ugly
liberals that I think that was one of the biggest

(01:12:02):
mistakes in American history to do that, and it's definitely
been and you will be. Yeah, Nafta is another example
of that. Yeah, Nafta is a probably one of the
that was like the nail in the coffin as far
as my as far as my opinion goes. And then
allowing China into the wt O, they they've broken every
fucking rule there is. The WTO hasn't enforced any sort

(01:12:24):
of violation that the Chinese have committed since they entered
the WTO, and so it's just like exactly like the stupidity.
Why I don't understand why so many people are like, now,
you know, for the moment pro China in a weird
way because they saw fucking Hong Kong lit up at
night on fucking TikTok and they think that that's somehow novel,

(01:12:46):
I guess. But the other part of that you think, no,
go ahead, I was just gonna say the other part
of that you hit on, I think is the is
the problem here, and it's that America has no work ethic.
Americans don't have a work ethic anymore. I think most
of Amicaans are too comfortable and their creature comforts and

(01:13:07):
the things that we need quote unquote to get by
throughout our day. And you know, like you said, you
have you have to keep hiring people because people can't
pass pissed tests. Well, okay, that's a problem this country. Right,
there's there's an epidemic of drugs, and especially areas like
you know Indiana and Ohio right having these these huge

(01:13:28):
drug epidemics. So it's just like you're the problem, and
the real problem you're talking about is a problem with
American culture and a problem with American ethics and morality.
Like that is the undoing right when you go and
you look back at like why like cultures fall apart,
it's not because of all these mechanisms we're talking about, Like, yeah,
these are just like parts of it, right, Like the

(01:13:48):
offshoring of American manufacturing that that that's this isn't this
is that's just how it happened. It's not why, you
know what I mean, And like the why is because
people lost their sense of direction, they like their sense
of identity, and they started to just like any other
creature who gets too comfortable first world society. They you
now have a generation of people who have never had

(01:14:09):
to wonder where their next meal is going to come from.
And they're not going to write and so why should
I do anything if I'm being given everything? And that's
how Americans behave. And unfortunately, just like anything else, some
tragedy is going to have to happen before people realize, Man,
we had it really fucking good, and now we don't,
and now we have to work for it. It's the
whole you know, good men make good times. You know,

(01:14:32):
good times makesoft men hold that whole fucking trope that
everybody said for six times.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
I think I think there is definitely a segment of
society that is like that, that is very much like entitled.
I mean, we're living in the best time of ever.
We're you know, I always say we're living in the future.
We're literally I can ask my phone something, I can
have food delivered to my house, I can have on
demand entertainment I can do. It's just it's such a

(01:15:00):
different world than we than humans had one hundred years ago.
But I will also say that the people that are driven,
I think in America, the people that are driven show
exceptional drive, you know what I'm saying, Like, the ones
that are out there making things happen are hardcore, you

(01:15:21):
know what. And I don't think a lot of other
countries wouldn't. You're not gonna find that kind of work
ethic because yeah, like Europe, you know, like afternoons, you know,
lazy afternoon kind of deal. You know, we're gonna take
a couple of hours off for lunch, three hours off
for lunch and then come back and things like that.
It's a yeah, all that kind of deal. I mean,

(01:15:42):
I just think that American ingenuity and innovation is you know,
top tier, and we do have some shit bags to
ten percent, right, there's always that bottom ten percent.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
So Bradon, while you were saying all that, it sparked
a memory in my mind about the mouse experiment. So
I pulled this up in the background. I have a
really cool little quick breakdown, but it was, yeah, John
Calhoun's Universe twenty five experiment justin have you ever heard
about this? So he took a group of mice and
he put them in basically like a utopia, so zero

(01:16:18):
there were zero predators. They had all the food, all
the water, all the comforts that they could ever possibly want.
And so here was like a really quick breakdown of
his findings. There was initial population growth where they thrived
and grew rapidly. Then all a sudden behavioral sync. They

(01:16:39):
started noticing. As the population increased and the environment became crowded,
social interactions begin to break down, leading to aggression, cannibalism,
and a lack of parental care. Then, in the midst
of all of this social chaos, a distinctive group of
mice emerged, exhibiting unique set of behaviors. They titled these
ones the beautiful Ones. So these beautiful ones were solitary

(01:16:59):
and aging, primarily in grooming and self care, and they
rarely interacted with any of the other mice. Then there
was loss of social roles. They also displayed a lack
of a lack of interest in mating or raising offspring,
effectively losing their social roles altogether. Even though they had
a pristine experience appearance about them. It was shortly after
that that the population began to decline, and then other

(01:17:23):
mice in the experiment declined in numbers and eventually went
extinct altogether. And then because the beautiful ones were the
ones that were left apart from society and had no
care to mate or raise offspring, then they eventually died out.
And basically the entire colony died. And this entire time,
this entire time, they had all the food, all the
all the water, all the bedding, everything that it was

(01:17:45):
right there in their environy, good to be true, and
yet they still died out.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
It's all too good to be true.

Speaker 3 (01:17:50):
Well here, here's here's the fun part about that experiment
is that those mice existed in a silo, right and
the United States doesn't exist in a silo. So what happens,
just like any other culture, it gets it gets infiltrated
with other people that are willing to do the work.
And the first world soft culture that existed on top,
the cream at the top is going to get eventually

(01:18:13):
be replaced by the people who do move in. If
there were other mice, who they if they let them
into this enclosure or whatever these mice were into those
mice would have become the mice that became the new
culture and became the new civilization of mice. And that's
exactly that's basically what happens.

Speaker 5 (01:18:28):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
Like this is like we talked about when we talked
about Universe twenty five the other night with Dan Holloway,
and we also talked about this too, about how like
a Rome, Rome went and conquered Gaul and brought back
all these slaves and now had an entire slave class
of people that eroded the middle class of Rome. And
you know, eventually they became so overpopulated with invaders like

(01:18:49):
the Visigoths, the ostro Goths, you know, and eventually, in
four to eleven, Alaric the Visigoth led a group of
them into Rum and sacked it and conquered the city. Right,
And this is just it's it's a product of becoming
too soft. It's a product of watching your working class
go away, and eventually somebody will show up in Slice

(01:19:09):
a better cheddar. You know, not to talk about mice
like that, but you know, just saying like that's that's
the natural course of events, that's the natural course of events.
You know, like there's no such thing as true isolationism
and humans, you know, the way that there's mice existed
in that controlled experiment, you know, and and it's just
sort of witnessing these things like that is natural. I
think that's just unfortunately is what happens, and it brings

(01:19:31):
up the whole car. I mean, just I'll ask you
the question justin then. I asked Dan the other night
about like, do you think you can manage your way
out of decline? Or is having conversations like this just
a coping mechanism so you don't feel complicit in the
decline of your civilization.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
No, I think we can. I don't. I mean, like
the fine decline, like like, what are we talking about
the or we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
What we're witnessing right now?

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
Is the me Maybe? I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
I would argue it is certainly what Okay, well.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
That's my thing. It's like it's a very general term,
like is all humanity declining?

Speaker 5 (01:20:05):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
I think medical innovation is improving American America. I don't
think amer American climbing though. I mean, we may not
be like as motivated as we used to be, but
there's no doubt that we're still the powerhouse of the world.

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
You know what I'm saying, Like I would say, just
like anything else right there are it's a roller coaster, right,
I think that we are. And I'll flesh this out
and I would love to be disabused of the notion
justin should you feel the need that we are on
a downward slope? Okay? Our infrastructure sucks, Bridges fall apart,

(01:20:46):
roads aren't being repaired. We have a massive drug and
homeless epidemic in this country. Education is absolutely balls. The
military has serious issues when it comes to standards. I mean,
I've seen it first hand. Chris is living it right
now because he's still active duty. Disclaimer, nobody uh in
on this podcast represents the d O D, especially Chris.

Speaker 4 (01:21:09):
And yeah, I know if you were still in yet,
so I wasn't. The United States, the United States is
not the clear cut lead in the most cutting edge
technology that the world is looking at right now. When
I say that, I mean AI and quantum computing, Like
there's not this massive gag.

Speaker 1 (01:21:30):
Who who is in AI and quantum computing?

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
France and China, and there's the dark horse that you don't.
People don't.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
France is more advanced people the China, I think China
is giving us China lied about deep seak or whatever
that that. Yeah, I know that there is advance as
we're letting or I don't know, man, I'd say it's
neck and neck.

Speaker 3 (01:21:55):
I don't know the the Nvidia. So though that's what
I'm that's what you're making the point.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
Then I put three stats on top of a Brandon
and then you can jump back into your question. But
when you talk about decline, there was over one hundred
million members of Generation the Boomer generation. There was only
seventy two million or so, give or take. In the
millennial generation. There's only like forty two forty five million
members of Generation Alpha right now. So that's that's an

(01:22:22):
obvious population decline. We're only at one point six birth rate,
which is not at replacement. And then also American health,
we are one of the most unhealthy countries in the world.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
But to your point, justin that's that's exactly what I'm
what I'm saying, Like in the nineties, there wasn't a
country that had a anywhere near close to being on
par with US militarily or technologically, right, and that gap
has closed up in a lot of different ways. And
I'm not saying China is more advanced than us in

(01:22:53):
every frontier, but that that gap that we're that margin
we're talking about when I was what I was getting at,
is not so indistinguishably indistinguishably American anymore. Right, Like you
just said, like you think we're neck and neck.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Oh yeah, but this is an emergent technology, Like if
you're how can you? I mean, this is something brand
new that everybody's figuring.

Speaker 3 (01:23:15):
I mean, is it correct? It is something brand new
that everybody's figuring out. But there have been technologies that
were brand new that everybody was figuring out and dealing with,
like the computer when that came out and was made
worldwidely available in the nineteen nineties, and there were still
not international corporations that were meaning the same standard that
American companies were, right, But here we are, we have

(01:23:37):
companies and this is this is like an IP intellectual property,
you know, conversation that we could have like whatever whatever
it is if we're talking like NIS or GDPR or
CIS or whatever. But like when we can have that conversation,
but it's not it's not so indistinguishably American anymore, not
even just AI or quantum computing, right, like the fact

(01:24:01):
in the China and just like every other civilization has
built it's it's new civilization off the backs of the
old one, right Rome did it to the Greeks? You know,
we say like, oh, they stole our tech. It's like, well,
that's what every new civilization does. They stole the tech
of the last one and made it better and made
it different. You know. I think that that that those

(01:24:23):
gaps closing, and you know, the way that America projects
power and the fact that they're not so wide anymore,
I think is evidence of decline. And I think that
that obviously, you know, there's there's the reasons why that is.
The g WID is one of those reasons. The military
industrial complex and how money just fleeces pockets rather than

(01:24:46):
going to actually developing these things they're supposed to. Like
the replacement for the what is it either the Columbia.
I think the Columbia class submarine is replacing the Ohio
class submarine. Like the project for that started I think
twenty seventeen and now it's already twice the amount of
the originally estimated budget, and they have it turned out

(01:25:06):
submarines like they were supposed to, Like, that's an evidence
of decline. So much bureaucracy that you can't even do anything,
You've got analysis paralysis everywhere, and people that don't care
to be productive, they care to just make money. I
think that all of that is evidence of decline. Not
maybe not necessarily the money thing, because people are always
trying to make money, right, but the fact that you

(01:25:28):
can't get anything done is evidence of detaine.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
Honestly, man, I disagree with not a lot. I mean
I disagree with some of that. I mean, there's a
lot of evidence of decline if you will, I mean,
if you want to look at basically anything, you can
say it's evidence of decline. But I mean one thing,
like we talk about infrastructure. Yeah, our infrastructure could be better,
but our infrastructure is way better than almost every country
I've been to. You know, there aren't bridges just falling down.

(01:25:55):
There are bridges that have fallen down, there are bridges
that have been damaged. You know, there are things that
need to be improved. But overall, I think we do
a pretty good job. And a lot of that's on
the state level, so every state is different, so you know,
there's there's that I mean, I don't know. I think
we're adapting. I think the world is changing. You know,
we were so far ahead because of the Industrial Revolution

(01:26:18):
and being able to come up with all this, you know,
all the things that we did, and we were but
once that, once that all these technologies and everything that
we came up with, other countries came up with. All
those things kind of spread around. That's why everything's kind
of closing gaps and evening out. That's one of the reasons,
you know, is because it's not you know, I would

(01:26:43):
because we're living longer than we ever have. You know,
we're healthier than we've ever been. That I mean, I
would say, like my evidence is that we're living longer
than we've ever have. You can we can we can say, yeah,
we're overweight. There's a lot of us out here that
are overweight. But at the same time, we're still living
longer than we ever have.

Speaker 3 (01:27:05):
I mean, like yeah, like that's I think that's evidence
of modern medicine and the process of science. Like I
agree with with sure, But but back to the decline piece, right,
sticking with like let's just like stick with like tech
and military I don't think it's just like the natural
course of events. I mean, maybe it is the natural
course of events, because that's just that's just like what happens.

(01:27:28):
But I don't think it's just benign. I guess if
you are going to look at this through a pro
America's stance, that the world has closed the military advancement,
you know, edge that America used to have, Like I
remember reading something a while back about like the next
closest country to catching in the United States was still

(01:27:48):
decades behind the way that we were innovating and creating
new tech, especially in the military space, right, but like
through through like intellectual property theft and you know, espionage
and people being pieces of ship. You know, Americans, you know,
the Chinese have caught up and we were stuck.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
I still for twenty years. I mean even though they
have their their.

Speaker 3 (01:28:09):
I think they're When I say caught up, I don't
mean equal, right, I mean that the gap that we
used to enjoy between us and them is has significantly closed,
and that is evidence of decline. If you just like
it's just like you would disagree, man, I mean, like look.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
All things, all things being equal, the average lifespan of
Americans has decreased from seventy eight point eight years to
now seventy seven point five years.

Speaker 3 (01:28:36):
Well, but it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
Has that was, but it did increase again up to
seventy seven point five from twenty twenty two, so it
is back COVID. You're still partially correct that that is.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
That's what it was. It was cod What would you
I remember reading that stuff before it that it was
the first decrease in like life. Are you time? Go ahead?

Speaker 3 (01:29:03):
Sorry it was no, You're good. That's really interesting. Are
you comfortable with the technological gap being as narrow as
it is between the un stations.

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
And the hip? I mean, I don't know. I mean,
is it than where you are?

Speaker 3 (01:29:18):
Maybe years?

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
The problem is is that I'm I would be assuming
I've never been to China. I don't even know where
they are technology wise. I hear a lot of news,
and do I trust what's coming through the news maybe
you know, like maybe some maybe not. I think China
has way more problems, but no one knows about them
because there's such a closed society that sure you don't
hear the the impact right now that they're having, like

(01:29:41):
tariffs are having on their country, and how right now
there's millions of jobs at stake, and there's millions, not millions,
And there's thousands, I think, maybe, if not thousands, hundreds,
hundreds or thousands of factories that are closed right now
that they've declared a holiday, you know, and it's actually
because they're trying to production because they don't need it.
I mean, they're well.

Speaker 3 (01:30:04):
Earlier, you were defending yourself with with your I don't
remember what it was that you were saying, like, oh, yeah,
you don't think blue collar workers are pieces of shit.
So I'm gonna quantify and say that I don't think
China is beating the United States on every front. I
also don't think China is without problems. Me Chris and
I talk about this on our show all the time

(01:30:25):
about how China has all these problems. We have had
people come on to flush those out, you know, the
problems that China has. All I'm saying is that the
fact that the United States has let that gap close,
I think is evidence of decline. And I don't think
it necessarily means permanent decline, but I also know that

(01:30:47):
it doesn't. That is not a good thing. That's not
a net positive at the end of the day. Right
to let in a country who's so obviously and states
they see you as an enemy to any gap on
you would not be something you'd put in the positive
column if you were going to break break those situations.

(01:31:08):
That's all I was saying, like, I obviously know China
has a ton of fucking problems, and I don't think
that they're this amazing fucking country. But I also am
not going to Underescid.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
I don't know. I don't think their military is what
everyone thinks it is. I think they're kind of like
I don't either. The whole time I was in the Marines,
and you know, not the whole time, but you know,
while you're in the military, people talked about Russia while
they have these tanks, they have certain sensors on them,
and they have they have this weapon system and these
guys are pretty legit. And then then we see them

(01:31:39):
going to Ukraine and really just fucking shit the bed, Like,
hey guys, PMS Monday, PMS, you know you have to
get to Motopol and start checking those tires so they
don't fucking blow up on trying to invade a country.

Speaker 3 (01:31:51):
If you're I said that in an episode, as they do.
If you're buying winterized tires from North Korea.

Speaker 1 (01:31:56):
So I think China is similar to that, where we
hold them on a high pedestal, partly to justify our
need for such an advanced and large sized military. But
I think it's also cool to like experiment with new stuff,
you know, Like I think that's part of it, you know.
But I don't know, man, I don't think we're in decline.

(01:32:17):
I think we're I I think we're I think, yeah,
I mean ups and downs, right every We're gonna have
ups and downs. I think the last four years mostly
we're down. I mean, I hate to be that guy,
and I know a lot of people maybe probably agree
with me, but like it was just that was I
felt like I felt like no one gave a fuck

(01:32:42):
about Americans, you know, like in the government, That's what
it felt like, you know, they were caring about everybody
except for like the average like everyday tax paying American.
Hey we're gonna get like drugs, and we're gonna get
needles for the fucking homeless people and stuff like that.
Hey we're gonna get like housing, free food and free
medical for like illegal immigrants and stuff like that, and hey,

(01:33:04):
we're gonna get this for this. You know. It's like,
but the average everyday American going and working in a
factory job or something like that, they're not getting those handouts.
They make a little bit too much to get a
handout one if they even wanted it to. A lot
of people don't want handouts, you know what I'm saying.
But I just feel like the last four years was
so bad. No, I think right now we're probably in

(01:33:25):
a pretty good spot. I don't like what Trump is
doing with his trade war stuff. I think he did
a little haphazardly. I think that. I think at the
end of the day, if he comes through with all
these deals they keep saying that they're gonna have, I
think that would be great, and it'd be awesome. If not,
and we keep these tariffs on, then he needs to
do some kind of major tax cut because he can't

(01:33:47):
have both. It should be one or the other. I
think that was the whole plan. I don't know, man,
I just think I'm more positive. I think that we
have such great innovation. I think we bring in smart people.
I think we allow smart people to think freely. I think, yeah,
I mean, you don't get that in China, you know,

(01:34:07):
you have to toe the party line. This is this
works like North Korea. Yeah, sure it'll work.

Speaker 3 (01:34:12):
Anything you make. I made this, you know, it's just.

Speaker 1 (01:34:18):
I'm a very much I'm very much positive though, I'm
very much like everything's you know, you have to be positive. Yeah,
Cuse there are negatives that can be pulled. And that's
the other thing too, is our bias is that we're
here in America. So it's very easy to look around
and go, look at that. That's fucked up, look at that.
I can't believe this. They got rid of parking and
put in bikelanes. It souns of bitches, you know, like

(01:34:39):
those kinds of things. I'm just mad because it keeps
happening here in San Diego, those sorts of things, like
we see that every day, so we don't see the like.
Do you have any Chinese news sources, like actually from China,
not like BBC China you know or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:35:02):
Uh So I use Ground News, which I can't recommend
highly enough. And yeah, it will pull Chinese news sources
and it'll tell you like it's factual. You know, it's accuracy.
It's like mixed factuality or high factuality or whatever. And
it shows you news it doesn't matter like I like,
I saw one one time it was like the Ugandan

(01:35:24):
Ugandan News and like Jesus, you know it was it
was a high factuality our article, you know. So but yeah,
like it will get.

Speaker 1 (01:35:31):
You, I mean because a lot of people aren't looking
at other sources. So it's like it's like right, Well,
so one time I did a I had a guy
from the Marine Corps time to reach out to me
about an article about the artillery community. I can't remember
what it was about exactly, and I was kind of
in the artillery community because I was an observer. So
when he called me, he was asking me these questions

(01:35:52):
up like that gunners would know. And I was kind
of explaining, like they have their own kind of culture,
you know, they fight along among the guns. They're like
that kind of deal and where you know, that wasn't
really my thing. And then I read the article and
he like misquoted me so much, you know, and I
was just like what the fuck I sound like? I

(01:36:12):
was like, yeah, being the boys are out here, Like
what what that? Right? There is a p That's a
perfect example of my I have a direct or, a
direct piece of evidence of someone taking I said and
put it in a newspaper and it being wrong. How
often does that happen? There's a there's a term for
what I'm what I'm describing as well. I don't remember
what it is. No, it's not yellow journalism. It's where

(01:36:35):
it's where you read something that you are very familiar
with in a newspaper and.

Speaker 2 (01:36:40):
The gel man.

Speaker 1 (01:36:41):
Is that what it is? Yeah, it's where you go
in and you go, hey, this is something I'm super
familiar with, and you read the article and this is
all bullshit? What is this? And then you go to
the next article and it's about something you're not familiar with,
and you're like, and you believe everything that they're saying,
you know, And that's the deal, Like, how much information
are we getting that's unfiltered? I think we're doing pretty good.
I think it makes some people. The bad thing is

(01:37:05):
is that us not doing well is good for the
politics for whatever you know group is not in office,
and that's yeah, and it gets amplified that way, and
everyone's like, I can't believe the downfall democracy is happening,
and blaah and all this, you know, and it's on
both sides. It's not just damns or Republicans on both sides.

(01:37:26):
And I just don't buy into it, man, I don't
buy into the fatalism of it, of the like this
is the end of the world. I think things need
to get better. I think there are things that should improve.
But man, there's no other time in the world I'd
want to live in right now. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:37:44):
I don't disagree with that. Yeah, yeah, no, yeah no,
I think that first and foremost, I think that we
are as a country. I think we're in a slump
in certain ways because we've come out of like the
twenty years of the Global War on Terror. But I
agree with you. The thing that I think you said

(01:38:05):
was super important is that, h you know, you can
innovate freely here in the United States and you can't
do that in in China, which is which is why
I I think that, you know, always the United States
will have an advantage over the Chinese. It's just just
like any the history on any dictator, Eventually they will

(01:38:26):
fuck it up because you cannot have a single point
of failure any in anything right, and if you are
if you are a dictator, you are the single point
of failure, right, and and how the future of your
dictatorship the outlook of the future of your dictatorship, right.
So you know, I do believe a lot more in Americans,

(01:38:47):
I think than a lot of people do. I suppose
who are chronically online, I guess, but I I choose
to be I would say like this, I choose to
be critical because I don't believe in telling I think
one of the worst things you can say to somebody
who needs to change is that they're good the way
they are. I think that's one of the stupidest things

(01:39:09):
you can say to somebody. And I believe in being
critical because it will it will reach the right audience,
and it will reach the people who will hear it
and recognize that the criticism is warranted. And I think too,
that it will reach to people who have the fortitude
and integrity to recognize that they need to change. Because

(01:39:32):
if you if you are not competent, and you don't
have the integrity to recognize that criticism of you and
your incompetence, then you deserve exactly what's coming to you.
And I think that being critical in a way that
I try to be, even if it does come off pessimistic.
I think is I try to use it as a

(01:39:53):
forcing function and a driving force. That's the way I
I I if that summarizes, my takes have.

Speaker 1 (01:40:00):
To be critical to get better, right, and I think
they I think you were. I think we would be
in a decline if you could no longer criticize what's happening.
That's a decline, you know, when you can't free, when
you can't like expression and you can't you know, the
UK is in a decline, you know what I'm saying.
Like they can't even post their own thoughts without getting

(01:40:24):
possibly rolled up in jail. They have thousands of like
you said earlier, they have thousands of people in jail
for memes and stuff like that for Facebook, And you know, yeah,
so I don't know, but again I'm uh, I'm pretty positive.
I'm you never the thing I've learned about politics and
world politics, geopolitics, whatever, you never know what the fuck

(01:40:47):
is gonna happen. Man, Like we could think we have
China figure it out, and Jiji Pin could die tomorrow
of a fucking heart attack, and then what happens? Who
who's up after him? You know what I'm saying? Or
or Vladimir we were killed by maybe an insider threat,
maybe someone in Russia. It's tired of him doing stuff.
What happens in Russia? Then now what you know what
I'm saying, Like, it's like when you don't think, like

(01:41:10):
you're like, I got to figure it out. There's always
something that comes out of left field, like boom, gotcha.

Speaker 3 (01:41:15):
It's like, yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:41:19):
Oh man, that was the biggest soft you know, got me? Dude.
COVID was so jacked up. I'll leave let's end on this.
But you know, COVID was so messed up. At the
very beginning of it. I was extremely worried. I was like,
holy shit, we're talking about a virus. I was like, man,
we're wiping stuff down in the house. Like I was like,
literally like once a day, it's like I wipe all
the handles off, wipe everything down.

Speaker 3 (01:41:40):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
I kind of got back into this when I was
on ship. We had what's called the double dragon where
you both vomit and ship at the same time. And
I can't remember what the name of the virus is,
but it's like a viral infection. It goes. So I
was like, well, on ship we had to wipe. It
doesn't work, but you know, it makes everyone feel better,

(01:42:02):
so like wipe everything down. And I was doing that
and I remember when they were talking about I remember
when they were talking about coming up with a vaccine
and they were like, yeah, we're gonna start looking for
volunteers for this vaccine. And you know, dude, for a minute,
I considered volunteering. You know what, you know, it's crazy
because I was like, you know, when I'm younger, I'm healthy, Like,

(01:42:24):
they're not gonna give me something crazy. It's not like
they're gonna inject some fucking crazy shit in me. And
then now I'm like, looking back, I'm like, man, I'm
glad I didn't volunteer for that. But at the time
it was such a huge deal. I was like I
was sitting there like, man, like this is one of
those times like people need to step up for the
country kind of deal. You know, someone's got to do

(01:42:44):
it right, and uh, for literally for a minute, I
was like, why could volunteer for this? You know this
isn't and yeah, that was my fucking COVID Dude, What
a what a mess? What a mess? That was?

Speaker 3 (01:42:58):
Bro?

Speaker 1 (01:42:59):
I was a mess.

Speaker 3 (01:43:00):
I agree dude. You know, I had a pretty unique
experience with COVID because I was in Germany when it happened,
and you know, we locked we locked down. And the
Germans always say they did exactly what you'd expect Germans
to do in any sort of situation where they need
to control a population, you know. But uh, you know,

(01:43:21):
it was stupid to me because I was a cop
and I had to interact with the you know, the
the members of a city every day. I was on
shift for you know, twelve hours a day, and it's
just like, why the hell am I wearing a mask anywhere?
You know, And like, yeah, like I saw this and
like you remember too, like a lot of the early footage.

(01:43:43):
There was even video of people in China that were
collapsing in the street and shit, and I was like,
oh my god, dude, like her, what was going on?

Speaker 1 (01:43:50):
Right? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:43:52):
And yeah, and then I saw like Italy got hit
really really hard, you may remember, and there were all
these people dying in the hospital. It's like, oh shit,
this this is like serious, serious, you know. And so
you know, and being in Germany, like Italy's not that
far away, or Europe is not as big as some
people think it is, and I'm just like, well, fuck,
like what is this shit?

Speaker 1 (01:44:10):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:44:11):
And you know, after a while, like and then like
my angst about the situation, I think like maybe not
give a fuck anymore. And then like two weeks into it,
I had to pull somebody out of a porta potty
and had human waste on me, and I was like,
well this is over. Oh yeah, like if I'm getting COVID, dude,
And like there's a terrible story I actually about a

(01:44:32):
soldier who died of COVID on a fucking sidewalk and
c ID couldn't figure out what the fuck to do
because there was no protocol for a pandemic and the Germans,
like creep its what they're called, they didn't want to
fucking touch it either, so they put a tent over
this guy on on the sidewalk with his wife sitting
there holding his dead body for like four hours, bro.

(01:44:54):
And it was just like just like that to me,
Like when I think about COVID and I think about
my experience, I think about situations like that where like
people just had no idea about what the fuck to do,
and like it's so natural to like put yourself in
like what you said. You were like, well, we got
to do this, like to get out of this, you know.
It's kind of like you got to walk into the
storm to get out the other side quick enough, you know, quicker, right.

(01:45:18):
And I think a lot of people and I think
that that I think that that's a I think that's
an honorable way to look at situations like that, you know,
but it also gives way too much grace to the
people in charge, Like you said, right like, oh well
this is fine, you know, go go get a VACS,
this experimental vaccine that by the way, Trump, President Trump

(01:45:39):
went through Operation warpsbed got out onto the streets the
hell of a lot quicker pretty fast, right, you know,
go get go get a vaccine and get a hamburger
and fries, right like all this crap.

Speaker 1 (01:45:51):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:45:51):
And then we've come out and realized like there was
no science to this six foot thing Fauci wanted to
you know, all this shit, you know, and it's just
like we'll go to show you that when the shit
hits the fan, absolutely no one has any fucking clue
what to do, and most people are just trying their
best at the end of the day, and you know,

(01:46:13):
there's always going to be bad actors like there were
doing during COVID. The Chinese wouldn't tell anybody what the
fuck was going on. They hid the information about where
it came from. It's still to some people, doesn't occur
to them that maybe the coronavirus came out of the
novel Coronavirus Lab and Wuhan right where this started, you know.
So it's just it's just crazy to me, Like people

(01:46:34):
are gonna people, dude, is all I'm saying. And there's
gonna be chaos, especially with situations like that.

Speaker 2 (01:46:41):
Dude. This is this is this is how insane the
human race went during COVID. And I remember when this
article dropped. This is twenty twenty one, so this is
like on on heading toward the backside of it, right,
But there was this brothel in Austria that was offering
free sessions, free sex for people who would come and

(01:47:04):
get vaccinated. So come and get vaccinated for COVID, but
leave with chlamydia, you know what I mean? Like this is.

Speaker 3 (01:47:11):
This, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:47:14):
But the problem with COVID, because you guys are absolutely right,
like in the beginning, nobody knew what to do with it.
But it's like if you go back and you watch
movies like Outbreak right or any movie that's about UFOs. Ever,
what's the prevailing wisdom, Right, It's like, Hey, we need
to get a handle on this, figure out what we're
dealing with. Let's not incite panic in the larger population,

(01:47:35):
because that's going to cause bigger problems. They took like
all of that basic conventional wisdom because COVID became politically
expedient heading into that election cycle and they and they
fanned it into the problem, like CNN was running the
death toll every day on the news site to just

(01:47:56):
keep that panic, like.

Speaker 3 (01:47:58):
The dark owinder, like the vaccine that the death winter
of the unvaccinated or some ship.

Speaker 1 (01:48:03):
Yeah, definitely. I think that's one thing that COVID proved
was that humans can't even come together for something like
that without it becoming political. Anybody that have their eyes open,
we're what we're paying attention during that whole time, saw
the politics of it, and we're just like I couldn't
believe that. I was like, this is crazy. And what
was crazy is how many people were so out of
the loop and just not not caring, not paying attention.

(01:48:25):
It's like, bro, this is at this point, we're literally
affecting our lives, like we can't leave our places. Were
you talking about I can't go to the store or
you know? Like well anyways, man.

Speaker 2 (01:48:36):
We're we're alright alright that death note.

Speaker 1 (01:48:43):
Have you guys. Have you guys ever listened to the
Stranger by the Hour podcast? I think you guys would
get along with those things. It's two former Marcians guys. Uh.
One was uh. They both did both like U D Snipers,
like did different things, and then they worked for the
for So Calm as contractors and now they have the

(01:49:07):
podcast Stranger by the Hour. They've been on this show
a few times and they go deep into like conspiracies
and like not not that you guys are conspiracy theorists
or anything, but like, hey, that's not a bad word. Yeah,
the research. It's funny though. It's just like, I think
you guys would like them. I think you guys should.
You guys should talk to them. Maybe you guys should

(01:49:28):
get on each other's podcast because.

Speaker 3 (01:49:31):
It's a Stranger by the Hour.

Speaker 1 (01:49:33):
Yeah, Cody and Aaron, those are both good dudes. Check
those guys out. But where can people find your guys'
show tell us.

Speaker 3 (01:49:42):
Did I always tell people to go to Rumble first
because we have had so much success over there, and
it's because of Rumble's platform and not censoring people, right,
So go find us on Rumble first. If you don't
have a Rumble account, go make one. There's a lot
of good shows on Rumble anyway. But we're also on YouTube, Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, and we also have a social media presence

(01:50:04):
as well on Instagram primarily you can go follow us
over there, where I put a lot of short form
content like pull reels from our episodes. We do a
lot of you know, like like guy on the Phone
videos too, you know. So yeah, go follow us on
one of those platforms, man help us out. I would
appreciate it for sure. And you can check out our
merch store and the sponsors on any of the show

(01:50:26):
notes from our episodes, red pill threads for the merch.
My favorite shirt is definitely the Teddy Roosevelt Brutal American
that we got on there. And you can also go
check out all the other homies over at the Dear
American Network as well that we're a part of. So
if you're if you're familiar with Dear America. Maybe Graham, Allen, Todd, Spears,
Maggie Moo, all those all those awesome folks chat praiser

(01:50:47):
over there on Dear America and go check.

Speaker 1 (01:50:48):
That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, everybody check out my stuff
JA Kreamergraphics dot com is my website for more action
guys for more action. News is my Instagram. And that's it. Gentlemen,
I really appreciate you guys coming on.

Speaker 3 (01:51:00):
Thanks Bro, thanks for having us man fun talking dude,
yahm

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Ep. 233 | Brandon & Chris | I Came With Fire Podcast

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 233 | Brandon & Chris | I Came With Fire Podcast