November 4, 2025 • 31 mins
TJ and Kris talk about the Arabian sons of Joktan, son of Eber, and the curse of the number 13, before turning their attention to Bigfoot.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, everybody, it's me Cinderella Acts. You are listening to
the Fringe Radio Network. I know I was gonna tell him, Hey,
do you.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the best way to listen to the Fringe Radio Network.
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radionetwork dot com right at the top of the page.
(00:37):
I know, slippers, we gotta keep cleaning these chimneys.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Today, folks, and welcome. I'm Chris Vader and I'm t J.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Stateman, and you're listening to the Answers to Giant Questions podcast,
coming to you from sunny Western Australia. Gooday, folks, and
welcome back to another episode of the Answers to Giant
Questions podcast, the show that tech us your questions about
the Biblical giants. Last week we started talking about the
Sons of shem Man. We had a pretty interesting discussion
(01:35):
about a fictional character thrown into that genealogy.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Have we got any more imaginary characters this week? Tim Well, I.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Don't know about any other fictional members of the family.
We definitely had a bit of a Mandela effect going
on in the text last time. We do have some
creative stuff going on in this reading and later interpretations
of it, and we'll have a look at that as
we go. Actually want to start with some background. You know,
we've been talking on the podcast through this entire thing
from the very start about the way that the primary
will history picks up old stories and sets them in
(02:02):
place for its own purposes. And what that means is
that whatever the basis was for those original stories, it's
been lifted out of its chronological context and placed carefully
in scriptures so that the author can teach using that
story in a particular way. The Bible is not attempting
to lay out a historical record for us.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I think there would be a lot of people who
understand it that way.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
There would be a lot of people who think that
the Bible is God's version of history preserved for us
in the pages of scripture.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Are they wrong?
Speaker 5 (02:32):
I wouldn't say that it's wrong to consider the Bible
as God's version of history, although I would question whether
it was God's intent to provide a history for history's sake.
I just think we've got to be careful about applying
modern ideas of how history is done to this ancient text.
That's where we get in trouble. It's really important that
we grasp this because as we move from the creation
to the flood, to the Tower of Babel to Abraham
(02:55):
and beyond, we're going to see some pretty wild jumps
in terms of actual historical timeline. The point being that
the history doesn't matter, the teaching matters, and you see
people coming up with some pretty interesting ideas about when
these things happened because they're really trying to find a
place to stick this portion of scripture. The whole lot
is one narrative unit against the historical record that we
know from archaeology, anthropology, and historiography. I mean, you can't
(03:18):
blame them. We all know that the Bible contains truth
and it's God's truth, and we love that and we
want to respect that. At the same time, we also
know lots of stuff from our study of the world
and its people. It's really hard to reconcile with what
the Bible is teaching us from a historical standpoint. And
what I mean is absolutely nobody outside of the pages
of the Hebrew Bible is presenting either a historical or
(03:39):
mythological narrative that lines up events in a one for
one correspondence in the same sequence and with the same
chronological data that doesn't happen anywhere in the ancient or
modern world, unless you count the modern evangelical fundamentalists. The
problem they have is they can't line up their timeline
against anybody else's, and they're insisting on a scientific view
of it even though it doesn't correlate with the science.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I haven't seen a convincing argument for the events of
Genesis flame through eleven that stairs that we can verify
this against certain dates from history.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
So I know this is really difficult to do, but
we really have to read the primeval history without yielding
to the temptation to try and lay these events over
a historically accurate timeline, because you just can't do it.
Having said that, the Biblical authors have intentionally laid all
this information out as it appears in the text, because
when we hear it, they want us to get that
(04:29):
sense of it. They're presenting this narrative as it appears,
and we have to stop trying to pick it apart
and nail certain events to a timeline orul to act
like it didn't really happen as presented. Again, this is
given to teach, and if we're not receiving the teaching,
then there's no point history for the sake of history
doesn't transform your life and bring you closer to God.
And this becomes really important as we get into this
(04:50):
portion of the text which is going to present to
us information designed to connect things that in reality are
not connected. But again, it's not about the history, it's
about the teaching bringing and this understanding to the text
really sets us free from the burden of trying to
find some point in time and space where everything happened
exactly as described in the Prime History with perfect chronological accuracy,
(05:11):
and remembering why the chronology of major events isn't important here.
We're now in a position to accept the narrative as
given by the author of scripture. So it doesn't matter
that the flood was probably four thousand years before the
Uruic expansion. That's why I land on the events of
the tar of Babel, which was probably three thousand years
before Abraham, who was two thousand years before Christ.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But you know people are going to hear this and seeing, well,
that's just a convenient way of admitting that you don't
know what to do with the data. The blable has
to be historically accurate, because that's a word to God.
God doesn't tell lives.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
Well, I guess my response to that is that the
presentation of a narrative for teaching purposes doesn't count as
a moral issue like lying. But if you're going to
insist that every parable Jesus told was a true story,
then go for your life, have fun trying to understand
the Book of Job or the story of the flood
or the story of Jonah without making allowance for literary creativity.
But you're going to find that if you continue to
(06:06):
attempt to take everything in the most wooden, literal sense possible,
you're putting yourself at odds with reality. And that's why
the material origins debate continues. As long as you've got
people prepared to argue against reality in order to support
their own interpretation of the creation story, then we're going
to continue to have these difficulties with teaching from the
affirmations of the text. And my second response to that
argument would be, well, let's see you pin the tale
(06:28):
on the donkey. Let's see you find the exact time
and place where everything in the primeval history occurred precisely
as it's laid out in sacred scripture with archaeological and
anthropological accuracy. Because you can't do it, and you know that,
and so do I. But the correct way to move
forward from that stalemate is not to argue that we
just haven't discovered enough evidence yet. It's to recognize the
intent of the biblical text. We are reading literature, and
(06:51):
that requires that we yield to its teaching.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So what is this part of Genesis ten teaching us?
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Well, we're going to find that. I guess we'd better
read the text. So here it is from the NIV,
from verse twenty five. Two sons were born to Iber.
One was named Peleg because in his time the earth
was divided. His brother was named Joktan. Joktan was the
father of al Madad, Shelef, Hazar, mevth Jerah, hadoram uzal
(07:21):
de clar Obal, Abimel Sheba, Ophir, Havila, and joe bab All.
These were sons of Yokhtan. The region where they lived
stretched from Misha towards Sephar in the eastern hill country.
These are the sons of Shem by their clans and
languages in their territories and nations. These are the clans
(07:42):
of Noah's sons, according to their lines of descent within
their nations. From these the nations spread out over the
earth after the flood.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
We've we've got a lot of text here. Are you
sure we're going to get through all of this?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
Well, we'll give a good crack, and if we do
get to the end of it, then that's our chapter
five finished, one step closer to Genesis eleven and closer
to the beginning of the Biblical story proper with Abraham.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Let's get into it then, So we start.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
With verse twenty five, and as we read this, we
need to keep in mind the things that we've been
learning about numbers in the Bible, which we really started
paying attention to back in season five when we were
talking about the genealogy of Adam. Because the first thing
we're told here is that Eva had two sons, and
whenever we find the number two, we frequently associate that
with conflict and division, and look what we see in
(08:30):
the story. One was named pelleg because in his time
the earth was divided. His brother's name was Joktan. So
we've got this division between these two brothers, and for
the rest of the chapter, we're going to be focused
on the younger brother and his offspring and their way
of life.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
So when it says one was named Pealegg because in
his time the earth was divided, what time is he
talking about?
Speaker 5 (08:56):
You know what time it is. This is one of
those situations where we have to remember what I was
talking about as we opened the show. It's a very
strategic narrative placement. It's designed to set us up for
the story that's coming. But before we go on, I
suppose I better address the elephant in the room. And
if you're familiar with the arguments of the Young Earth
creationist crowd, then you know where I'm going here. I'm
(09:17):
just going to come out and say it. This verse
is not a reference to continental drift and plate tectonics.
It just isn't. That isn't the sense implied by the
particular Hebrew in news. It certainly isn't anything that an
ancient Jewish audience would have had any concept of or
any frame of reference to deal with that. Let's be honest,
the whole reason that the idea of continental drift had
to enter the biblical discussion is because people who believed
(09:39):
in your Young Earth had to try and figure out
some way that people ended up on different continents all
over the world from a single population in the ancient
Near East, and they needed that to happen relatively quickly,
and for some reason, boats were out of the question.
Don't ask me why. Then plate tectonics was discovered in
the idea of continental drift, and somebody seized upon that
idea and thought, well, if we could just speed up this,
(10:00):
that would really solve our problem. So let's just invent
the idea that within the space of one man's lifetime
they moved to approximately where they are now. And when
you point out the obvious objection that continental drift actually
happens really slowly, the response comes back that God could
make it happen fast if he wanted to. Yeah, well,
(10:21):
God could make it rain money if he really wanted
to solve my problems. But that's not how God works
because it wouldn't actually solve my problems. And appealing to
God is that you get out of jail free card.
Here also doesn't solve the numerous problems raised by that
proposed solution. But this is a biblical studies podcast, not
a science podcast. So if you want answers to science questions,
you know where look, go back to school. What we
need to be paying attention to in the text there
(10:43):
is that the word earth is a really poor choice
for the translation. And I feel like I've said this
hundreds of times. It's the land. Every time you read
the word earth in your translation, you should be thinking
about the land. It's the place where people live. It's
not the planet. It's not about continents, it's just the region.
It's the place where you live. Land is divided. That
means that these people live here and those people live there,
(11:03):
and whatever it is that makes the distinction between those people,
that's the dividing line. That's the criterion for the separation.
It's not a crack in the mantle of the earth.
It's a difference of opinion over who's in charge. It's
the choice to standardize using a different language or currency.
It's a dispute over the good land and who gets
control of it. It's a border that people have accepted
in order to keep the peace and even though the
(11:24):
division between these two brothers and the land on which
they lived doesn't actually have its own embedded chronological reference,
aside from a genealogy that may or may not include
all the pertinent data. It is included at this point
in the narrative to give you a frame of reference.
It assumes you already have some familiarity with the story
that's coming next. It's anticipating the story of Babel. It's
(11:44):
framing the division between these brothers and the land on
which they lived in that context. So what we're going
to see as we continue is that this younger son
has a lot of children.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
On the one.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Hand, this will be seen as indicative of divine favor
and prosperity. But on the other hand, we've got an
unlucky number here. It's the number thirteen, and that's a
significant number. But we'll talk about that later. Let's have
a look at these sons. First, we have Almodad, which
means not measured, or you could take that as numerous,
(12:16):
and these people located in the Arabian mountains. And he's
followed by Schalef, a name that means drawn out or unsheathed,
like a sword. I think we're supposed to take a
hint of sexual innuendo there. These guys were located in
South Arabia. Next we have Hasar Mavath, the court of
death is the meaning of that one very ominous southern
(12:39):
coast of Arabia, known for a powerful civilization, made wealthy
by its natural resources of spices, fragrances, and healing aloes,
and yet also known for its toxic environment created by
some of those same resources. Apparently, one of the reasons
that this thriving civilization soon disappeared was the people getting sick.
And then we have Gyrah new moon or or month.
(13:01):
This was in Arabia near the Red Sea, associated with
the source of gold in antiquity. In verse twenty seven,
we have Hadoram noble honor, again from the southern coast
of Arabia. Then we have Uzal, which means I shall
be flooded. That's the region of Yemen in Arabia, also
referred to in Ezekiel twenty seven, famous for producing wine.
(13:26):
I wonder if they were flooded with wine or flooded
with something else. I'd take that as a hint towards
something that's coming. We've been talking about this anticipation of
another movement of God after the flood, and we were
wondering how that was going to happen. Then we have
dick La, the palm grove, again located in Arabia. And
(13:48):
then we moved to verse twenty eight, which gives us
Obal that is defined as stripped bear. And if you
compare that with Ebol the mountain of cursing doesn't sound
very nice. Then we have abimel or my father is
el or God. So these guys are wandering Arab nomads.
I think a lot of these actually were sort of
(14:10):
wandering peoples, were just sort of loosely given these definitions
from antiquity. Then we have Sheba. This is an interesting one,
a prosperous Arabian land. I'm going to share one of
the footnotes from my book as it relates to the
people of Sheba, the Sabians. This is footnote number eighty
seven from chapter thirty eight of Answers to Giant Questions.
(14:30):
I'll give you the quote note on the Sabians. According
to Isaiah forty five, verse fourteen, the Sabians are men
of stature. They may be linked to the sons of
Sheeth of Balam's prophecy number twenty four seventeen. This would
equate them with the Shahzu of Egyptian literature, known to
be gigantic in size. Historically, the Sabians are known to
(14:53):
have worshiped a pantheon of seven deities. Remember the Sabatu
from ancient Mesopotamia. We talked about those back our coverage
of the flood represented by celestial bodies under the chief
deity Sheth Or set to the Egyptians a god of chaos.
The Sabians occur in four places in scripture. In Isaiah
forty five, they are promised among God's treasures of darkness
(15:16):
to Cyrus, the Persian king who conquered Babylon. Thus he
uses the Sabians to this end. Likewise, when the Satan
challenges God's justice, God permits him to afflict job, and
the Sabians are utilized to carry out the very first attack.
When Ezekiel refers to the Sabians in Ezekiel twenty three
forty two, he uses them in a superlative sense to
(15:38):
show that Israel had brought judgment upon themselves. Finally, Joel
also mentions the Sabians in the context of the judgment
of the nations at the future day of the Lord
in Joel three, verse eight, where they will repay Phoenicia
for what was done against Israel. This is especially interesting
since the Sabian people ceased to exist as a nation
(15:59):
by the end of the First Entry AD, suggesting a
spiritual representation of the Sabians, either Refaean spirits or the
Sabetu themselves is intended in this passage. In all four contexts,
the Lord is the one acting sovereignly, and the giant
Sabians are the mighty tools of chaos in his hands,
either to prove God's sovereign justice, to seal the condemnation
(16:22):
of the guilty, or to enact his judgment. The name
Sabians means they who are coming ooh ominous, and that's
the end of the quote. So there's some interesting stuff
there telegraphing ideas ahead of Genesis eleven. But let's come
back to our text. In chapter ten and in verse
twenty nine, we have o Fear reducing to Ashes, a
(16:46):
place known for fine gold and hearkening back to Eden.
Of course, remember that from Genesis two, and also in
Genesis two we had Havilah, which means circle. So again
they were are place nine for fine gold and for
being mentioned in conjunction with Eden. So those are the
twelve sons of Joktan. And you'll notice that most of
(17:08):
those names have something to do with being rich or
prosperous or having a lot of offspring. Very worldly sort
of names. And as I said before, this is the
kind of stuff that you would associate with God's favor
as an ancient person.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
But did didn't you say there were thirteen sons? Where's
the last one?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
There's no fool new, is there? Hey, Sharpe is a
cactus and twice as prickly. That's a compliment most people
don't know. I think I'm about as much fun as
a cactus and half as intelligent anyway, unlike you thirteen.
Let's talk about that. I remember last week we were
talking about Canaan, the guy who didn't really exist in
Genesis but found his way into Luke's geneality of Jesus. Yeah, well,
you might have wondered why the fictional guy who gets
(17:44):
made up out of nowhere and stuck into the text
got put exactly there and not somewhere else in the genealogy.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I didn't, but please go on.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Well, as it turns out, there's a bit of a
tradition that certain people were born under a curse. This
is speculation on Jewish folklore. Mostly. It's one of those
things that the Bible doesn't teach, but if you're looking
for it, you can find it. Because this really only
works if you're looking back on the text with the
benefit of hindsight. So you have to put yourself in
the position of a Jewish interpreter of the scriptures long
after they were written. Okay, Now, imagine that you have
a late version of the Bible, specifically the Greek translation.
(18:14):
You're studying genealogies, so in the version you're reading, you've
got Canaan in there, even though he's not in the
masoretic text, and you notice that other versions don't have him,
and you think yourself, why is that. It sounds like
this guy must have been pretty bad to have his
name removed from the Bible, and we know that actually
wasn't the case. But again, we're speculating from the point
of view of the rabbis in antiquity, and they don't
know what we know. And then you notice that Canaan
(18:35):
is the thirteenth generation from Adam, and Adam's the first
guy to stuff things up and get kicked out of Eden.
And when you read the book of Jubilees, you find
that there are twenty two patriarchs between Adam and Jacob,
and I mentioned this last week, but Kanaan isn't included
in that list. And since those patriarchs are considered to
be righteous people, that really lends itself to the idea
that if Kanaan actually was a real guy, but he
must have been a real bad guy and maybe that's
(18:56):
why he wasn't included on the list. And then when
you read Jubilees chapter eight, as we did last week,
and you find that Caanaan was doing some bad stuff,
that sort of confirms it. This guy, the thirteenth from
Adam was a bad seed.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
But didn't you say it wasn't even a real guy.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Never let the truth get in the way of a
good story, Chris, here's where it gets interesting. Assuming that
Caanaan was a real guy, let's keep him in the
genealogy and continue down the track. Yet to remember that
he was the thirteenth generation from Adam, and without in mind,
we asked the question who was the thirteenth generation from Canaan.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Ooh ah, I do not know.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
It turns out that the sons of Rachel, namely Joseph
and Benjamin, the youngest sons of Jacob, are in the
thirteenth generation from Canaan. Not only that, but since Jacob
had twelve sons and a daughter, Benjamin was not only
the thirteenth generation, but he was the thirteenth child in
the family right. So Joseph and Benjamin, the thirteenth generation
from the cursed Canaan, are the ones that find themselves
(19:48):
in the most trouble in the story. In Genesis, Joseph
gets abused and left for dead and later sold into
slavery by his brothers. Later he ends up in jail.
When he gets out of that situation, we all know
the story of his brother end up coming to him
to get food, and he sends them back to get
Benjamin and bring him to Egypt. And Jacob has an
unusual reaction to this. He talks as though he believes
(20:09):
that if he sends Benjamin to Egypt, he's going to die,
and then Jacob himself will go to Shiel, the realm
of the unrighteous dead. And this is highly unusual. But
to understand that, you've got to realize that Jacob had
certain concerns for Benjamin. He knows he's the thirteenth child.
He's worried about him. He already had to save him
from a curse when his mother died in childbirth, and
he did that by changing his name from son of
(20:30):
my sorrow to son of my right hand. He doesn't
want to lose Benjamin, but he doesn't explain why. According
to this theory, it's because of the curse of the
thirteenth generation or the thirteenth child. Again, the Bible doesn't
teach this, but people have speculated about it over the years. Now,
Joseph and Benjamin with the thirteenth generation from Canaan according
to Rachel's line of descent. But if we look at
(20:51):
Jacob's line, it's Jacob's grandchildren who belong in that thirteenth generation.
So the sons of Judah, Ur and Oen they are
in that j generation, remember Genesis thirty eight, and they
die without leaving children. Remember they were supposed to marry
and give children to Tamar, but they didn't, which was
a great sin. And then Judah told Tamar that she
(21:12):
could marry his third son, Sheila, but he didn't let
her he was worried that Sheila might die too. Again,
he's the thirteenth generation, and it's actually Tamar who breaks
the curse by tricking Judah into having children with her.
So she has two children who fill the position of
the thirteenth generation by virtue of being sons of Judah,
and they no longer suffer under the curse.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Okay, so what does this have to do with anything?
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Well, coming back to Joktana and his thirteen sons, the
last one was traditionally understood to have been the most
accursed man in the entire Old Testament. Who do you
reckon had the worst luck in the Bible?
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I have to say Job, no question.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
Joe Board Joe Bab Who There's a tradition that says
that Joe Bab here in Genesis ten is actually the
same guy as the biblical Job, the one who endue
with the most extreme suffering, lost everything and didn't even
get an explanation for it.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Is that true?
Speaker 5 (22:05):
Well, we don't have anything solo to make that connection.
It's probably not. This all comes from late traditions arising
long after the fact, and as I said, the Bible
isn't actually teaching that thirteenth sons or thirteenth generations are
actually cursed. This just comes from people making observations about
the stories.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
This was actually a really long and elaborate setup for
a hypothetical.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
It doesn't really matter.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
Yeah, pretty much. This is just the kind of stuff
you get when you approach the Bible looking to import
your ideas into it instead of letting the Bible teach you.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Okay, so what is it teaching us?
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Well, we've just seen a whole bunch of people who
have this reputation for prosperity and living the good life.
And even if that last guy, Joe bab actually was
the biblical character behind the Book of Job, he was
also a pretty rich guy who had a lot going
for him. So we're going to find that all of
these guys just disappear out in the narrative when we
go on to chapter eleven, and after we've read the
story of Babel, we're going to pick up the genealogy
that leads us to the righteous Abraham, and it doesn't
(22:58):
come through the sons of Joktan. It comes through a
son of Peleek. So this is actually foreshadowing the story
about Abraham and his nephew Lot when they have a
division or separation of their own and they part ways,
and Lot chooses the land where all the good stuff
is and he goes to side him, and we know
how that turns out for him. Abraham, on the other hand,
continues his nomadic way of life, and that's what we're
(23:19):
going to see characterized by this second half of the
line of the Sons of Eber next season. Anyway, all
these guys we were just reading about, it situated in
the Arabian Peninsula, which is why verse thirty in our
reading gives the geographical borders of Arabia from north to south.
And even though verse thirty one goes on to say
that these are the sons of Sham Yadi, Ada YadA,
we're not done with the sons of Sham. But the
(23:40):
chapter concludes this way, and I guess I've already spoiled it.
So we get a surprise later on when we learned
about the connection to Abraham. And then just to really
wrap things up with the final mention of Noah and
the flood to put an end to that story. And
you'll notice that it describes the nations being spread out
all over the earth after the flood, not after Babbel.
We haven't got there yet, and that's going to be
(24:00):
when we start in Chapter eleven next season.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
So it sounds like we're going to come back next
week to wrap up the chapter and finish season ten
of the podcast before we take a break from us
and come back for season eleven.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
But before all that, it's time for some Q and A.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I want to keep your giant questions. If you have
a question about stuff you've heard on the show or
somewhere else, it's something you found in your Bible, or
just some general feedback you'd like to tell us about
the world at large. Here's how you do it. Head
to the website Giant Answers dot com. I personally can
receive bad door mail and I will try to get
to all of it.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
I love hearing from it, especially if you get answers
to your giant questions.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
This week, we have a question about bigfoot.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Stanley asked in the Fallen Angels, a neflin group on Facebook,
whether the bigfoot could be a subspecies of the neflam.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
What do you think about that, Tim.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
Hmm, that's a good question. I hear this a lot,
but I've never talked about it on the show.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
One of the.
Speaker 5 (24:51):
Reasons that I don't talk about the Bigfoot phenomenon much
at all is because of the nature of the beast,
so to speak. Bigfoot accounts are notoriously unreliable, and in
con that's not to say that there's nothing going on there.
It just means we don't know what it is. I
generally leave it to the Cryptid Chasing podcasts to deal
with this kind of thing, but I suppose at some
point you've got to say something. Actually, I have spoken
(25:13):
before about the Bigfoot phenomenon, and it was in the
context of my own encounter with something. I'm not going
to call it Bigfoot because I don't know what it was.
But you can listen to that episode way back in
season two, which was our Halloween special, and here we
are again at Halloween, how the turn tables. Anyway, I
think the Bigfoot has to be more than just a big, dumb,
bolding North American ape with no.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Gin Don's yet short tempered hm.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
But what exactly quijibo? I mean Sasquatch descriptions and the
other phenomena often associated with sightings range from the mundane
to the wildly otherworldly. You could have an experience that
could just be written off as some creature in the
bush that you didn't quite see there, for it must
be a bigfoot. But if you want the full twenty
two points plus triple word score plus fifty points for
(25:55):
using all your letters, you might have a sighting plus
alien spaceships, creatures, dispirited portals, balls of light and levitating objects,
accompanied by a horrible smell and weird noises, followed up
by an abduction experience, and the whole men in black treatment.
My own experience, if it was an experience, was fairly
mundane on that spectrum. No flashing lights, of blowing orbs,
no weird smells, no visits from suits, and no explanation.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So what do you do with that? Do you think of? What?
Was it a good experience or a bad one?
Speaker 5 (26:21):
Oh, here's what I think. Whether this was the work
of malevolent entities in different creatures with no intentions towards me,
or purely a misunderstanding of some ordinary phenomenon that escapes
my grasp. I can tell you about the fruits of
the events of that night. The net result, even though
it terrified and confused me at the time was that
I became more determined than ever in my belief that
there was more to life and existence in this world
(26:43):
than what we can explain through the natural senses alone,
and that brought me closer to Christ. I remind myself
often that God is sovereign, and he will use whatever
means at his disposal to draw all men to himself.
Sometimes that's one of his treasures of darkness, as I
mentioned earlier. More often it's your family and friends are
offering you some good advice. But my advice to you
(27:03):
is to surrender yourself to God, regardless of the form
of his hand toward you. The important thing is that
you come to him, not that you go looking for
a certain kind of experience. These entities are unknown because
they continue to defy our best efforts to contain, classify,
and control them, and I think it might be best
if we allow them to remain mysterious. Ultimately, if you're
faithful to Christ, then God's got your back, and He's
(27:26):
going to use your experience to bring about the good.
It might be scary at the time, but then the
profits were usually pretty scared when they encountered the divine,
so you might be in good company. There Are they
giants related to giants? We don't know? More importantly, are
they God's way of trying to get your attention, because
that's ultimately the biggest question of all. Don't make the
mistake of chasing after the postman when you were supposed
(27:46):
to be reading the letter he brought you. The mailman
isn't the point. It's the message and he's just a messenger.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Hmm.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
That's good advice as always. Well, that is the end
of our show for tonight. Thanks to Stanley for a
postman that question.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
We've got it.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Get out of here, but we will be back next
week with the final episode of season ten.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
After that, we're taking a break.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
And that will be time that we will use to
prepare the next season the podcast, Season eleven is coming,
so stick around, that's right.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
And in preparation for the break. If you're looking for
something to keep yourself occupied in the meantime, now is
the perfect opportunity to order a copy of the book
Answers to Giant Questions in paperback or kindle format through Amazon.
Just follow the link from the website Joint Answers dot Com.
See you next week.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Bye bye, It's time to wrap up today's episode.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
But if you want more, don't forget to get yourself
a copy of Answers to Giant Questions. We're asking readers
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Please also leave a review of this podcast wherever you
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(28:53):
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Speaker 2 (29:07):
Thank you for listening to the Answers to Giant Questions Podcast,
a production of the Raven Creek Social Clubs. If you
like what you heard today, please take a moment to
rate for review. The show music supplied under copy right
by great.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
For Sacred Greatful Saken dot com.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
You can get the book Answers to Giant Questions by
t J. S Edmond on Amazon and paperback and skible format.
Check out the other podcasts at Lady free Aird dot
com and Giant Answers dot com. For more answers to
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Don't forget to subscribe until your friends about the show,
Send us your giant questions, and stay tuned with this
podcast to get answers. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
Until then, stay safe and God bless very good. Hell,
I am ah, very well, very well.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
That is very long.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
Indeed, it's good to be well, and it's well to
be good. Tis yeah, I just said you can't be
well dah. But if you're in a well, you're not good.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
Yes, I've just made some egg nog because I couldn't
get out of Not too bad either.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
It's the first time making it.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
First time this season actually, probably the first time since
moving into.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
This house has been there you go.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Now it's a home where the nog is.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Indeed, m M get that.
Speaker 5 (30:32):
On a welcome back, I think lost you are, You're back.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
You're about to say something very profound. My understanding is this,
and then you paused.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
He's about to say something for I didn't have and
the pause continued, I was speaking it.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Greatly and inscrutable detail. Anyway, I think we're be able
to freeze up again, are we? I don't know. Oh gosh,
it's hard to tell. I'm getting you know, I'll just.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Keep my head express wonder. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
As soon as the head nodding stops, I know, and
you're gone again. Mm hmm, like you've got some sweet
sweet eggnog here, my one constant friend. It never drops
out on me, suffers bad connections.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
Just the right amount of cinnamon and nutmeg and vanilla mhmm,
always goes down smooth.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
I think I've just got a chunk of egg. Yeah,
never mind, he'll be back eleven minutes later.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Okay, Well, we'll talk about the void another time. It
keeps keep kicking me off the I'm looking at my router.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Just keeps kicking me off. The Wi Fi is very old.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
Invoking the void, indeed.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Avoid in vocation. There's no laughing matter, right,
Hi, everybody, it's me Cinderella Acts. You are listening to
the Fringe Radio Network. I know I was gonna tell him, Hey,
do you.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Have the app?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the best way to listen to the Fringe Radio Network.
It's safe and you don't have to log in to
use it, and it doesn't track you or trace you,
and it sounds beautiful. I know I was gonna tell him,
how do you get the app? Just go to Fringe
radionetwork dot com right at the top of the page.
(00:37):
I know, slippers, we gotta keep cleaning these chimneys.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Today, folks, and welcome. I'm Chris Vader and I'm t J.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Stateman, and you're listening to the Answers to Giant Questions podcast,
coming to you from sunny Western Australia. Gooday, folks, and
welcome back to another episode of the Answers to Giant
Questions podcast, the show that tech us your questions about
the Biblical giants. Last week we started talking about the
Sons of shem Man. We had a pretty interesting discussion
(01:35):
about a fictional character thrown into that genealogy.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Have we got any more imaginary characters this week? Tim Well, I.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
Don't know about any other fictional members of the family.
We definitely had a bit of a Mandela effect going
on in the text last time. We do have some
creative stuff going on in this reading and later interpretations
of it, and we'll have a look at that as
we go. Actually want to start with some background. You know,
we've been talking on the podcast through this entire thing
from the very start about the way that the primary
will history picks up old stories and sets them in
(02:02):
place for its own purposes. And what that means is
that whatever the basis was for those original stories, it's
been lifted out of its chronological context and placed carefully
in scriptures so that the author can teach using that
story in a particular way. The Bible is not attempting
to lay out a historical record for us.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I think there would be a lot of people who
understand it that way.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
There would be a lot of people who think that
the Bible is God's version of history preserved for us
in the pages of scripture.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Are they wrong?
Speaker 5 (02:32):
I wouldn't say that it's wrong to consider the Bible
as God's version of history, although I would question whether
it was God's intent to provide a history for history's sake.
I just think we've got to be careful about applying
modern ideas of how history is done to this ancient text.
That's where we get in trouble. It's really important that
we grasp this because as we move from the creation
to the flood, to the Tower of Babel to Abraham
(02:55):
and beyond, we're going to see some pretty wild jumps
in terms of actual historical timeline. The point being that
the history doesn't matter, the teaching matters, and you see
people coming up with some pretty interesting ideas about when
these things happened because they're really trying to find a
place to stick this portion of scripture. The whole lot
is one narrative unit against the historical record that we
know from archaeology, anthropology, and historiography. I mean, you can't
(03:18):
blame them. We all know that the Bible contains truth
and it's God's truth, and we love that and we
want to respect that. At the same time, we also
know lots of stuff from our study of the world
and its people. It's really hard to reconcile with what
the Bible is teaching us from a historical standpoint. And
what I mean is absolutely nobody outside of the pages
of the Hebrew Bible is presenting either a historical or
(03:39):
mythological narrative that lines up events in a one for
one correspondence in the same sequence and with the same
chronological data that doesn't happen anywhere in the ancient or
modern world, unless you count the modern evangelical fundamentalists. The
problem they have is they can't line up their timeline
against anybody else's, and they're insisting on a scientific view
of it even though it doesn't correlate with the science.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I haven't seen a convincing argument for the events of
Genesis flame through eleven that stairs that we can verify
this against certain dates from history.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
So I know this is really difficult to do, but
we really have to read the primeval history without yielding
to the temptation to try and lay these events over
a historically accurate timeline, because you just can't do it.
Having said that, the Biblical authors have intentionally laid all
this information out as it appears in the text, because
when we hear it, they want us to get that
(04:29):
sense of it. They're presenting this narrative as it appears,
and we have to stop trying to pick it apart
and nail certain events to a timeline orul to act
like it didn't really happen as presented. Again, this is
given to teach, and if we're not receiving the teaching,
then there's no point history for the sake of history
doesn't transform your life and bring you closer to God.
And this becomes really important as we get into this
(04:50):
portion of the text which is going to present to
us information designed to connect things that in reality are
not connected. But again, it's not about the history, it's
about the teaching bringing and this understanding to the text
really sets us free from the burden of trying to
find some point in time and space where everything happened
exactly as described in the Prime History with perfect chronological accuracy,
(05:11):
and remembering why the chronology of major events isn't important here.
We're now in a position to accept the narrative as
given by the author of scripture. So it doesn't matter
that the flood was probably four thousand years before the
Uruic expansion. That's why I land on the events of
the tar of Babel, which was probably three thousand years
before Abraham, who was two thousand years before Christ.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But you know people are going to hear this and seeing, well,
that's just a convenient way of admitting that you don't
know what to do with the data. The blable has
to be historically accurate, because that's a word to God.
God doesn't tell lives.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
Well, I guess my response to that is that the
presentation of a narrative for teaching purposes doesn't count as
a moral issue like lying. But if you're going to
insist that every parable Jesus told was a true story,
then go for your life, have fun trying to understand
the Book of Job or the story of the flood
or the story of Jonah without making allowance for literary creativity.
But you're going to find that if you continue to
(06:06):
attempt to take everything in the most wooden, literal sense possible,
you're putting yourself at odds with reality. And that's why
the material origins debate continues. As long as you've got
people prepared to argue against reality in order to support
their own interpretation of the creation story, then we're going
to continue to have these difficulties with teaching from the
affirmations of the text. And my second response to that
argument would be, well, let's see you pin the tale
(06:28):
on the donkey. Let's see you find the exact time
and place where everything in the primeval history occurred precisely
as it's laid out in sacred scripture with archaeological and
anthropological accuracy. Because you can't do it, and you know that,
and so do I. But the correct way to move
forward from that stalemate is not to argue that we
just haven't discovered enough evidence yet. It's to recognize the
intent of the biblical text. We are reading literature, and
(06:51):
that requires that we yield to its teaching.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So what is this part of Genesis ten teaching us?
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Well, we're going to find that. I guess we'd better
read the text. So here it is from the NIV,
from verse twenty five. Two sons were born to Iber.
One was named Peleg because in his time the earth
was divided. His brother was named Joktan. Joktan was the
father of al Madad, Shelef, Hazar, mevth Jerah, hadoram uzal
(07:21):
de clar Obal, Abimel Sheba, Ophir, Havila, and joe bab All.
These were sons of Yokhtan. The region where they lived
stretched from Misha towards Sephar in the eastern hill country.
These are the sons of Shem by their clans and
languages in their territories and nations. These are the clans
(07:42):
of Noah's sons, according to their lines of descent within
their nations. From these the nations spread out over the
earth after the flood.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
We've we've got a lot of text here. Are you
sure we're going to get through all of this?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
Well, we'll give a good crack, and if we do
get to the end of it, then that's our chapter
five finished, one step closer to Genesis eleven and closer
to the beginning of the Biblical story proper with Abraham.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Let's get into it then, So we start.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
With verse twenty five, and as we read this, we
need to keep in mind the things that we've been
learning about numbers in the Bible, which we really started
paying attention to back in season five when we were
talking about the genealogy of Adam. Because the first thing
we're told here is that Eva had two sons, and
whenever we find the number two, we frequently associate that
with conflict and division, and look what we see in
(08:30):
the story. One was named pelleg because in his time
the earth was divided. His brother's name was Joktan. So
we've got this division between these two brothers, and for
the rest of the chapter, we're going to be focused
on the younger brother and his offspring and their way
of life.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
So when it says one was named Pealegg because in
his time the earth was divided, what time is he
talking about?
Speaker 5 (08:56):
You know what time it is. This is one of
those situations where we have to remember what I was
talking about as we opened the show. It's a very
strategic narrative placement. It's designed to set us up for
the story that's coming. But before we go on, I
suppose I better address the elephant in the room. And
if you're familiar with the arguments of the Young Earth
creationist crowd, then you know where I'm going here. I'm
(09:17):
just going to come out and say it. This verse
is not a reference to continental drift and plate tectonics.
It just isn't. That isn't the sense implied by the
particular Hebrew in news. It certainly isn't anything that an
ancient Jewish audience would have had any concept of or
any frame of reference to deal with that. Let's be honest,
the whole reason that the idea of continental drift had
to enter the biblical discussion is because people who believed
(09:39):
in your Young Earth had to try and figure out
some way that people ended up on different continents all
over the world from a single population in the ancient
Near East, and they needed that to happen relatively quickly,
and for some reason, boats were out of the question.
Don't ask me why. Then plate tectonics was discovered in
the idea of continental drift, and somebody seized upon that
idea and thought, well, if we could just speed up this,
(10:00):
that would really solve our problem. So let's just invent
the idea that within the space of one man's lifetime
they moved to approximately where they are now. And when
you point out the obvious objection that continental drift actually
happens really slowly, the response comes back that God could
make it happen fast if he wanted to. Yeah, well,
(10:21):
God could make it rain money if he really wanted
to solve my problems. But that's not how God works
because it wouldn't actually solve my problems. And appealing to
God is that you get out of jail free card.
Here also doesn't solve the numerous problems raised by that
proposed solution. But this is a biblical studies podcast, not
a science podcast. So if you want answers to science questions,
you know where look, go back to school. What we
need to be paying attention to in the text there
(10:43):
is that the word earth is a really poor choice
for the translation. And I feel like I've said this
hundreds of times. It's the land. Every time you read
the word earth in your translation, you should be thinking
about the land. It's the place where people live. It's
not the planet. It's not about continents, it's just the region.
It's the place where you live. Land is divided. That
means that these people live here and those people live there,
(11:03):
and whatever it is that makes the distinction between those people,
that's the dividing line. That's the criterion for the separation.
It's not a crack in the mantle of the earth.
It's a difference of opinion over who's in charge. It's
the choice to standardize using a different language or currency.
It's a dispute over the good land and who gets
control of it. It's a border that people have accepted
in order to keep the peace and even though the
(11:24):
division between these two brothers and the land on which
they lived doesn't actually have its own embedded chronological reference,
aside from a genealogy that may or may not include
all the pertinent data. It is included at this point
in the narrative to give you a frame of reference.
It assumes you already have some familiarity with the story
that's coming next. It's anticipating the story of Babel. It's
(11:44):
framing the division between these brothers and the land on
which they lived in that context. So what we're going
to see as we continue is that this younger son
has a lot of children.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
On the one.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Hand, this will be seen as indicative of divine favor
and prosperity. But on the other hand, we've got an
unlucky number here. It's the number thirteen, and that's a
significant number. But we'll talk about that later. Let's have
a look at these sons. First, we have Almodad, which
means not measured, or you could take that as numerous,
(12:16):
and these people located in the Arabian mountains. And he's
followed by Schalef, a name that means drawn out or unsheathed,
like a sword. I think we're supposed to take a
hint of sexual innuendo there. These guys were located in
South Arabia. Next we have Hasar Mavath, the court of
death is the meaning of that one very ominous southern
(12:39):
coast of Arabia, known for a powerful civilization, made wealthy
by its natural resources of spices, fragrances, and healing aloes,
and yet also known for its toxic environment created by
some of those same resources. Apparently, one of the reasons
that this thriving civilization soon disappeared was the people getting sick.
And then we have Gyrah new moon or or month.
(13:01):
This was in Arabia near the Red Sea, associated with
the source of gold in antiquity. In verse twenty seven,
we have Hadoram noble honor, again from the southern coast
of Arabia. Then we have Uzal, which means I shall
be flooded. That's the region of Yemen in Arabia, also
referred to in Ezekiel twenty seven, famous for producing wine.
(13:26):
I wonder if they were flooded with wine or flooded
with something else. I'd take that as a hint towards
something that's coming. We've been talking about this anticipation of
another movement of God after the flood, and we were
wondering how that was going to happen. Then we have
dick La, the palm grove, again located in Arabia. And
(13:48):
then we moved to verse twenty eight, which gives us
Obal that is defined as stripped bear. And if you
compare that with Ebol the mountain of cursing doesn't sound
very nice. Then we have abimel or my father is
el or God. So these guys are wandering Arab nomads.
I think a lot of these actually were sort of
(14:10):
wandering peoples, were just sort of loosely given these definitions
from antiquity. Then we have Sheba. This is an interesting one,
a prosperous Arabian land. I'm going to share one of
the footnotes from my book as it relates to the
people of Sheba, the Sabians. This is footnote number eighty
seven from chapter thirty eight of Answers to Giant Questions.
(14:30):
I'll give you the quote note on the Sabians. According
to Isaiah forty five, verse fourteen, the Sabians are men
of stature. They may be linked to the sons of
Sheeth of Balam's prophecy number twenty four seventeen. This would
equate them with the Shahzu of Egyptian literature, known to
be gigantic in size. Historically, the Sabians are known to
(14:53):
have worshiped a pantheon of seven deities. Remember the Sabatu
from ancient Mesopotamia. We talked about those back our coverage
of the flood represented by celestial bodies under the chief
deity Sheth Or set to the Egyptians a god of chaos.
The Sabians occur in four places in scripture. In Isaiah
forty five, they are promised among God's treasures of darkness
(15:16):
to Cyrus, the Persian king who conquered Babylon. Thus he
uses the Sabians to this end. Likewise, when the Satan
challenges God's justice, God permits him to afflict job, and
the Sabians are utilized to carry out the very first attack.
When Ezekiel refers to the Sabians in Ezekiel twenty three
forty two, he uses them in a superlative sense to
(15:38):
show that Israel had brought judgment upon themselves. Finally, Joel
also mentions the Sabians in the context of the judgment
of the nations at the future day of the Lord
in Joel three, verse eight, where they will repay Phoenicia
for what was done against Israel. This is especially interesting
since the Sabian people ceased to exist as a nation
(15:59):
by the end of the First Entry AD, suggesting a
spiritual representation of the Sabians, either Refaean spirits or the
Sabetu themselves is intended in this passage. In all four contexts,
the Lord is the one acting sovereignly, and the giant
Sabians are the mighty tools of chaos in his hands,
either to prove God's sovereign justice, to seal the condemnation
(16:22):
of the guilty, or to enact his judgment. The name
Sabians means they who are coming ooh ominous, and that's
the end of the quote. So there's some interesting stuff
there telegraphing ideas ahead of Genesis eleven. But let's come
back to our text. In chapter ten and in verse
twenty nine, we have o Fear reducing to Ashes, a
(16:46):
place known for fine gold and hearkening back to Eden.
Of course, remember that from Genesis two, and also in
Genesis two we had Havilah, which means circle. So again
they were are place nine for fine gold and for
being mentioned in conjunction with Eden. So those are the
twelve sons of Joktan. And you'll notice that most of
(17:08):
those names have something to do with being rich or
prosperous or having a lot of offspring. Very worldly sort
of names. And as I said before, this is the
kind of stuff that you would associate with God's favor
as an ancient person.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
But did didn't you say there were thirteen sons? Where's
the last one?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
There's no fool new, is there? Hey, Sharpe is a
cactus and twice as prickly. That's a compliment most people
don't know. I think I'm about as much fun as
a cactus and half as intelligent anyway, unlike you thirteen.
Let's talk about that. I remember last week we were
talking about Canaan, the guy who didn't really exist in
Genesis but found his way into Luke's geneality of Jesus. Yeah, well,
you might have wondered why the fictional guy who gets
(17:44):
made up out of nowhere and stuck into the text
got put exactly there and not somewhere else in the genealogy.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I didn't, but please go on.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Well, as it turns out, there's a bit of a
tradition that certain people were born under a curse. This
is speculation on Jewish folklore. Mostly. It's one of those
things that the Bible doesn't teach, but if you're looking
for it, you can find it. Because this really only
works if you're looking back on the text with the
benefit of hindsight. So you have to put yourself in
the position of a Jewish interpreter of the scriptures long
after they were written. Okay, Now, imagine that you have
a late version of the Bible, specifically the Greek translation.
(18:14):
You're studying genealogies, so in the version you're reading, you've
got Canaan in there, even though he's not in the
masoretic text, and you notice that other versions don't have him,
and you think yourself, why is that. It sounds like
this guy must have been pretty bad to have his
name removed from the Bible, and we know that actually
wasn't the case. But again, we're speculating from the point
of view of the rabbis in antiquity, and they don't
know what we know. And then you notice that Canaan
(18:35):
is the thirteenth generation from Adam, and Adam's the first
guy to stuff things up and get kicked out of Eden.
And when you read the book of Jubilees, you find
that there are twenty two patriarchs between Adam and Jacob,
and I mentioned this last week, but Kanaan isn't included
in that list. And since those patriarchs are considered to
be righteous people, that really lends itself to the idea
that if Kanaan actually was a real guy, but he
must have been a real bad guy and maybe that's
(18:56):
why he wasn't included on the list. And then when
you read Jubilees chapter eight, as we did last week,
and you find that Caanaan was doing some bad stuff,
that sort of confirms it. This guy, the thirteenth from
Adam was a bad seed.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
But didn't you say it wasn't even a real guy.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Never let the truth get in the way of a
good story, Chris, here's where it gets interesting. Assuming that
Caanaan was a real guy, let's keep him in the
genealogy and continue down the track. Yet to remember that
he was the thirteenth generation from Adam, and without in mind,
we asked the question who was the thirteenth generation from Canaan.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Ooh ah, I do not know.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
It turns out that the sons of Rachel, namely Joseph
and Benjamin, the youngest sons of Jacob, are in the
thirteenth generation from Canaan. Not only that, but since Jacob
had twelve sons and a daughter, Benjamin was not only
the thirteenth generation, but he was the thirteenth child in
the family right. So Joseph and Benjamin, the thirteenth generation
from the cursed Canaan, are the ones that find themselves
(19:48):
in the most trouble in the story. In Genesis, Joseph
gets abused and left for dead and later sold into
slavery by his brothers. Later he ends up in jail.
When he gets out of that situation, we all know
the story of his brother end up coming to him
to get food, and he sends them back to get
Benjamin and bring him to Egypt. And Jacob has an
unusual reaction to this. He talks as though he believes
(20:09):
that if he sends Benjamin to Egypt, he's going to die,
and then Jacob himself will go to Shiel, the realm
of the unrighteous dead. And this is highly unusual. But
to understand that, you've got to realize that Jacob had
certain concerns for Benjamin. He knows he's the thirteenth child.
He's worried about him. He already had to save him
from a curse when his mother died in childbirth, and
he did that by changing his name from son of
(20:30):
my sorrow to son of my right hand. He doesn't
want to lose Benjamin, but he doesn't explain why. According
to this theory, it's because of the curse of the
thirteenth generation or the thirteenth child. Again, the Bible doesn't
teach this, but people have speculated about it over the years. Now,
Joseph and Benjamin with the thirteenth generation from Canaan according
to Rachel's line of descent. But if we look at
(20:51):
Jacob's line, it's Jacob's grandchildren who belong in that thirteenth generation.
So the sons of Judah, Ur and Oen they are
in that j generation, remember Genesis thirty eight, and they
die without leaving children. Remember they were supposed to marry
and give children to Tamar, but they didn't, which was
a great sin. And then Judah told Tamar that she
(21:12):
could marry his third son, Sheila, but he didn't let
her he was worried that Sheila might die too. Again,
he's the thirteenth generation, and it's actually Tamar who breaks
the curse by tricking Judah into having children with her.
So she has two children who fill the position of
the thirteenth generation by virtue of being sons of Judah,
and they no longer suffer under the curse.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Okay, so what does this have to do with anything?
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Well, coming back to Joktana and his thirteen sons, the
last one was traditionally understood to have been the most
accursed man in the entire Old Testament. Who do you
reckon had the worst luck in the Bible?
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I have to say Job, no question.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
Joe Board Joe Bab Who There's a tradition that says
that Joe Bab here in Genesis ten is actually the
same guy as the biblical Job, the one who endue
with the most extreme suffering, lost everything and didn't even
get an explanation for it.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Is that true?
Speaker 5 (22:05):
Well, we don't have anything solo to make that connection.
It's probably not. This all comes from late traditions arising
long after the fact, and as I said, the Bible
isn't actually teaching that thirteenth sons or thirteenth generations are
actually cursed. This just comes from people making observations about
the stories.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
This was actually a really long and elaborate setup for
a hypothetical.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
It doesn't really matter.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
Yeah, pretty much. This is just the kind of stuff
you get when you approach the Bible looking to import
your ideas into it instead of letting the Bible teach you.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Okay, so what is it teaching us?
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Well, we've just seen a whole bunch of people who
have this reputation for prosperity and living the good life.
And even if that last guy, Joe bab actually was
the biblical character behind the Book of Job, he was
also a pretty rich guy who had a lot going
for him. So we're going to find that all of
these guys just disappear out in the narrative when we
go on to chapter eleven, and after we've read the
story of Babel, we're going to pick up the genealogy
that leads us to the righteous Abraham, and it doesn't
(22:58):
come through the sons of Joktan. It comes through a
son of Peleek. So this is actually foreshadowing the story
about Abraham and his nephew Lot when they have a
division or separation of their own and they part ways,
and Lot chooses the land where all the good stuff
is and he goes to side him, and we know
how that turns out for him. Abraham, on the other hand,
continues his nomadic way of life, and that's what we're
(23:19):
going to see characterized by this second half of the
line of the Sons of Eber next season. Anyway, all
these guys we were just reading about, it situated in
the Arabian Peninsula, which is why verse thirty in our
reading gives the geographical borders of Arabia from north to south.
And even though verse thirty one goes on to say
that these are the sons of Sham Yadi, Ada YadA,
we're not done with the sons of Sham. But the
(23:40):
chapter concludes this way, and I guess I've already spoiled it.
So we get a surprise later on when we learned
about the connection to Abraham. And then just to really
wrap things up with the final mention of Noah and
the flood to put an end to that story. And
you'll notice that it describes the nations being spread out
all over the earth after the flood, not after Babbel.
We haven't got there yet, and that's going to be
(24:00):
when we start in Chapter eleven next season.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
So it sounds like we're going to come back next
week to wrap up the chapter and finish season ten
of the podcast before we take a break from us
and come back for season eleven.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
But before all that, it's time for some Q and A.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I want to keep your giant questions. If you have
a question about stuff you've heard on the show or
somewhere else, it's something you found in your Bible, or
just some general feedback you'd like to tell us about
the world at large. Here's how you do it. Head
to the website Giant Answers dot com. I personally can
receive bad door mail and I will try to get
to all of it.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
I love hearing from it, especially if you get answers
to your giant questions.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
This week, we have a question about bigfoot.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Stanley asked in the Fallen Angels, a neflin group on Facebook,
whether the bigfoot could be a subspecies of the neflam.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
What do you think about that, Tim.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
Hmm, that's a good question. I hear this a lot,
but I've never talked about it on the show.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
One of the.
Speaker 5 (24:51):
Reasons that I don't talk about the Bigfoot phenomenon much
at all is because of the nature of the beast,
so to speak. Bigfoot accounts are notoriously unreliable, and in
con that's not to say that there's nothing going on there.
It just means we don't know what it is. I
generally leave it to the Cryptid Chasing podcasts to deal
with this kind of thing, but I suppose at some
point you've got to say something. Actually, I have spoken
(25:13):
before about the Bigfoot phenomenon, and it was in the
context of my own encounter with something. I'm not going
to call it Bigfoot because I don't know what it was.
But you can listen to that episode way back in
season two, which was our Halloween special, and here we
are again at Halloween, how the turn tables. Anyway, I
think the Bigfoot has to be more than just a big, dumb,
bolding North American ape with no.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Gin Don's yet short tempered hm.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
But what exactly quijibo? I mean Sasquatch descriptions and the
other phenomena often associated with sightings range from the mundane
to the wildly otherworldly. You could have an experience that
could just be written off as some creature in the
bush that you didn't quite see there, for it must
be a bigfoot. But if you want the full twenty
two points plus triple word score plus fifty points for
(25:55):
using all your letters, you might have a sighting plus
alien spaceships, creatures, dispirited portals, balls of light and levitating objects,
accompanied by a horrible smell and weird noises, followed up
by an abduction experience, and the whole men in black treatment.
My own experience, if it was an experience, was fairly
mundane on that spectrum. No flashing lights, of blowing orbs,
no weird smells, no visits from suits, and no explanation.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So what do you do with that? Do you think of? What?
Was it a good experience or a bad one?
Speaker 5 (26:21):
Oh, here's what I think. Whether this was the work
of malevolent entities in different creatures with no intentions towards me,
or purely a misunderstanding of some ordinary phenomenon that escapes
my grasp. I can tell you about the fruits of
the events of that night. The net result, even though
it terrified and confused me at the time was that
I became more determined than ever in my belief that
there was more to life and existence in this world
(26:43):
than what we can explain through the natural senses alone,
and that brought me closer to Christ. I remind myself
often that God is sovereign, and he will use whatever
means at his disposal to draw all men to himself.
Sometimes that's one of his treasures of darkness, as I
mentioned earlier. More often it's your family and friends are
offering you some good advice. But my advice to you
(27:03):
is to surrender yourself to God, regardless of the form
of his hand toward you. The important thing is that
you come to him, not that you go looking for
a certain kind of experience. These entities are unknown because
they continue to defy our best efforts to contain, classify,
and control them, and I think it might be best
if we allow them to remain mysterious. Ultimately, if you're
faithful to Christ, then God's got your back, and He's
(27:26):
going to use your experience to bring about the good.
It might be scary at the time, but then the
profits were usually pretty scared when they encountered the divine,
so you might be in good company. There Are they
giants related to giants? We don't know? More importantly, are
they God's way of trying to get your attention, because
that's ultimately the biggest question of all. Don't make the
mistake of chasing after the postman when you were supposed
(27:46):
to be reading the letter he brought you. The mailman
isn't the point. It's the message and he's just a messenger.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Hmm.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
That's good advice as always. Well, that is the end
of our show for tonight. Thanks to Stanley for a
postman that question.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
We've got it.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Get out of here, but we will be back next
week with the final episode of season ten.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
After that, we're taking a break.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
And that will be time that we will use to
prepare the next season the podcast, Season eleven is coming,
so stick around, that's right.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
And in preparation for the break. If you're looking for
something to keep yourself occupied in the meantime, now is
the perfect opportunity to order a copy of the book
Answers to Giant Questions in paperback or kindle format through Amazon.
Just follow the link from the website Joint Answers dot Com.
See you next week.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Bye bye, It's time to wrap up today's episode.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
But if you want more, don't forget to get yourself
a copy of Answers to Giant Questions. We're asking readers
to please leave a review of the book on Amazon
or good Reads to help it become more visible in
search results. Even if you just give it stars, that
will help out a full review you certainly really appreciated.
Please also leave a review of this podcast wherever you
found us, so that new listeners can find us here
(28:53):
on the show. This podcast comes out every week, but
you want to make sure you never miss an episode,
so if you haven't already subscribe, do that now and
you'll get notified when each new episode drops. We'll catch
you next time on the Answers to Giant Questions Podcast.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Thank you for listening to the Answers to Giant Questions Podcast,
a production of the Raven Creek Social Clubs. If you
like what you heard today, please take a moment to
rate for review. The show music supplied under copy right
by great.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
For Sacred Greatful Saken dot com.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
You can get the book Answers to Giant Questions by
t J. S Edmond on Amazon and paperback and skible format.
Check out the other podcasts at Lady free Aird dot
com and Giant Answers dot com. For more answers to
giant questions, read the blog and catch us on the social.
Don't forget to subscribe until your friends about the show,
Send us your giant questions, and stay tuned with this
podcast to get answers. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
Until then, stay safe and God bless very good. Hell,
I am ah, very well, very well.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
That is very long.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
Indeed, it's good to be well, and it's well to
be good. Tis yeah, I just said you can't be
well dah. But if you're in a well, you're not good.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
Yes, I've just made some egg nog because I couldn't
get out of Not too bad either.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
It's the first time making it.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
First time this season actually, probably the first time since
moving into.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
This house has been there you go.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Now it's a home where the nog is.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Indeed, m M get that.
Speaker 5 (30:32):
On a welcome back, I think lost you are, You're back.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
You're about to say something very profound. My understanding is this,
and then you paused.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
He's about to say something for I didn't have and
the pause continued, I was speaking it.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Greatly and inscrutable detail. Anyway, I think we're be able
to freeze up again, are we? I don't know. Oh gosh,
it's hard to tell. I'm getting you know, I'll just.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Keep my head express wonder. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
As soon as the head nodding stops, I know, and
you're gone again. Mm hmm, like you've got some sweet
sweet eggnog here, my one constant friend. It never drops
out on me, suffers bad connections.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
Just the right amount of cinnamon and nutmeg and vanilla mhmm,
always goes down smooth.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
I think I've just got a chunk of egg. Yeah,
never mind, he'll be back eleven minutes later.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Okay, Well, we'll talk about the void another time. It
keeps keep kicking me off the I'm looking at my router.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Just keeps kicking me off. The Wi Fi is very old.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
Invoking the void, indeed.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Avoid in vocation. There's no laughing matter, right,
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