Charlie Kirk Assassination Revisited - Bad Press - Fringe Radio Network

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, everybody, it's me Cinderella Acts. You are listening to
the Fringe Radio Network. I know I was gonna tell them, Hey,
do you have the app? It's the best way to
listen to the Fringe Radio Network. It's safe and you
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doesn't track you or trace you, and it sounds beautiful.

(00:27):
I know I was gonna tell him, how do you
get the app?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Just go to.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Fringeradionetwork dot com right at the top of the page.
I know, slippers, we gotta keep cleaning these chimneys.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Welcome to the Badpress Podcast. I'm your co host Trevor.
Please join me in welcoming my traitors, treacherous and disloyal
co host David.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
Alrighty there, campers, Welcome to Bad Press. We're just gonna
do want y'all to kind of give some feedback. Which
intro do you like more? Do you like traverse his
intro or do you like the one that I kind
of adapted while he abandoned me over the last What
has it been like a month, five weeks, six weeks

(01:17):
since you have decided to join the show.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
I'll accept that. I'll accept that I was gonna try
to lean into calling you treacherous and traitorous, but I'll
accept that. Man, it's been a It sounds like you've
been really busy too, but it just sounds like I
don't know what is it? Fall? Is fall a particularly
busy time? Is mercury and retrograde? Am I capricorn? What's

(01:41):
going on? I don't know, but I've been busier than usual.
So thanks for having me back, thanks for not banning
me from the show.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
Ah, that's it. Yeah, I mean I think that like
before Thanksgiving, before the holidays, I feel like work always
tries to ramp up so they get a little bit
of production because I know that late November early December
is going to be everyone's just checked out.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, they kind of squeeze the last few drops of
soul out of you before you get a bit of
a break. How's your workmen, You're you're helping build fuel
for our AI overlords, right, you're building power plants or something.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
No, that's what I'm still in the prison.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Uh, you know you're building our new homes.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
Rafter, Yeah, I'm building. Well it's a juvenile it's the
juvenile prison.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
So well, this is this is alarming that you are
primarily building prisons and power plants.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
Well, this one is like, yeah, I've talked about it before,
but it's the Nashville Youth Campus for Empowerment and uh
and it's a prison. Yeah, it's Uh, it's a juvenile
courthouse that has like dorms, like basically dorms. I mean
they're you know, instead.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Of what what in Orwellian name. It's like they consult
the George Orwell's state, like, hey, we're building a place
to imprison children, which would we call it, well the
Center for Enrichment.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah, so that's what I mean. It's they're trying to
take like a little bit more of a rehabilitation approach.
So we'll see. I don't know, I mean I have
a zero idea what if that'll work. But yeah, I
mean I get to go into a massive courthouse slash
prison and I put boxes into concrete walls is my job.

(03:32):
So it's a little monotonous.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
At least you're outside. I guess. I don't know. People
who work outside probably wish they worked inside, and people
who work inside probably wish they worked does it Actually
I don't think anybody wants to work outside me, let
me rephrase everything I just said there.

Speaker 4 (03:49):
I mean there's some days where it's like it's really nice,
it's not that bad, but it's been raining. It's been
raining so much in the fall here, so it's just
I mean, the entire site turns into this massive mud pit,
so you're just sliding around and well like real roof
so when it rains, like the rain just like leaks

(04:09):
through and it's yeah, it's a mess.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
But rolling around in the mud and putting boxes in
concrete is not all you've been up to. I saw
you just posted an episode that you did an interview.
Tell us about that.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
Yeah, we went well, I went on William Ramsey Investigates,
which is a much bigger show than ours. He went
on Biblical Hitman like right after I did, and he
saw that we were talking that I was talking about
Andrea Pooharich and he he hadn't really done a dedicated

(04:42):
episode to Andrea Pooharich, but he's super into the MK ultra,
super into kind of parapolitical research of the fifties and sixties.
So yeah, we talked for an hour and a half.
It was a really good conversation.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
What did you What did he think of the pooharich
Are have you committed to Pooharich or Pooharik. I feel
like we got to pick.

Speaker 4 (05:02):
I've got Poochka. That's just the one.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
I like him. What did he think about Pooharch?

Speaker 4 (05:08):
Yeah, he had like he was aware of him, and
he kind of did some uh like some research of
his own before the episode, and so he kind of
had a similar take where it's you know, he's poor art.
Poor Arch is kind of under understudied in the general
like mind control literature, but is a super important figure

(05:31):
that kind of you know, he has this this web
that kind of extends out and seems to kind of
catch all of these like super interesting CIA projects. So
obviously there's the Artichoke and mk Ultra, but then also touches,
you know, the psychic Spies, and you know, he's so
he was he was really interested and he had some

(05:52):
good things to some good things to share.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
And that's that's basically that's going to be your book, right.

Speaker 4 (05:59):
Yeah, And that's that's what I mean. I've got like
the outline kind of going, and there's a lot of
different kind of I guess I'm trying to like figure
out how many rabbit holes to go down, and like
how deep those rabbit holes could be. So it'll be
like structured around puharch. But obviously, you know, we'll get

(06:19):
like they'll probably be a chapter at least one dedicated
to like paper clip.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
It's tough because like some of the most interesting rabbit holes,
of course, are the least well substantiated, you know, So
it's like you have to decide where to place the emphasis,
Like do I place the emphasis on stuff that like
definitively is true, Well, it may not be as interesting, right, Well, and.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
There's a lot of like there's a lot of conflicting information,
Like you'll read I'll read like three different sources, and
they'll have kind of like three different like takes or
interpretations of like, for example, his early career, like he
joins the Army Medical Corps during World War Two. But
then some people are like, oh, well, he never served

(07:07):
in World War two. Some people think that he went
to Nuremberg and actually like treated patients for a few months.
And then you know, there's some people who think he
gets involved in the CIA or rather like the OSS
earlier on in naval intelligence. And there's some people who
are like you know, that doesn't happen until later. So anyways,
it's just in that case, it's like, well you can't

(07:29):
There isn't really a definitive like true source, so you
kind of have to like present all of them and
be like, I guess this one, this one makes a
little bit more sense than the others. But there's a
lot of stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Speaking of naval intelligence, psychic spies, and mk ultra, you
had asked me like ten minutes ago, a couple hours ago,
what we should talk about tonight, which first of all
indicates to me that we've already reached the phase of
the podcast where you're tired of doing eight hours of
research per episode, which, considering that this is a net

(08:05):
cost to us, makes sense that you wouldn't want to
spend eight hours in episode researching and writing notes. It
was an inevitability and maybe, hey, maybe this is just
every once in a while, we just got to have
a chill show man. It has to be fun. It
has to be fun for you, otherwise we're gonna get
burned out.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Yeah, I mean, I've got some like, I've got some
topics that I want to get like into, but they
do deserve a little bit more time. So it's like,
I want to do a big series on the Mormons,
and we're gonna talk a little bit about the Mormons tonight.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
Fascinated by the Mormons, man, the role of the Mormons,
and like Tamy the West and like the government connections
and the cult stuff and the they're just weird as hell. Man.
Well this is not to say all Mormon people. I'm
just saying, you know, the institution is weird.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
Yeah, it's the same as kind of of you know,
it's the same as a lot of religions where it's
like the actual people are fine, but then when you
get into like the upper you know, the the hierarchy,
the further you go up, the weirder it does get.
So yeah, I mean I was reading like one of
the episodes, I think it was two episodes ago, where
I was looking at Lavenda's book. Uh. He talks he

(09:21):
has kind of like a brief history of like Joseph
Smith and kind of a dumb yeah, which previous to
like getting into like all this kind of research south
Park was the extent of my was the extent of
my Mormon knowledge. But he goes into it and like
the stuff that he like he was scrying, like he

(09:42):
was had like a piece of black obsidian that he
would put into his hat and he would like look
into his hat. And his family were treasure hunters. Yeah,
they were trying to like contact intelligences to you know,
lead them to treasure. And he continued that practice is like,
you know, even after he formed the Church of Latter

(10:04):
day Saints. And so there's a lot of interesting stuff
with that I want to get. Yeah, Like the reason
that I want to do spend some more time with
it is because I don't know a ton about like
Brigham Young and the kind of you know, conquering of
the West. So I definitely want to look a little
bit more into that.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
I mean, the thing about Mormonism is, first of all,
the reason a lot of sort of mainstream Christians don't
like Mormonism is the Bible specifically says like, hey, these
religions are going to be taught to you by angels
after my time. Just you know, Jesus, somebody's saying this,
I forget who was in the New Testament, and they're wrong,

(10:41):
you know, don't listen to them. And so that's kind
of one of the reasons why people say that like
Islam and Mormonism and a few other religions were predicted
were prophesysized in the Bible. But the thing about Mormonism
to me, it's like it's either complete and I'm not
trying to anyone, it's either complete horseship or it is

(11:04):
just like a mystical occult religion. You know, it's one
of those two or some mix of both, you know.
Well and the thing that like they were channeling demons
maybe or it's just made up. Those are our options,
I think.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yeah, I mean it gets into kind of like it
reminds me a lot of like the Enochian magic kind
of you know, some of the like stories about John
d that kind of come out. But what's what strikes
me about Mormonism is that it's like one of the only,

(11:38):
like I guess maybe the most established or like the
most prominent, maybe like the most like the oldest like
American made religion.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
So it's like we brought over a lot of like
you know, religious movements from Europe, but like they were
kind of those movements were kind of created and like
the Protestant Reformation of Europe, and then they adapt and
kind of like they evolve when they get to the
United States. But Mormonism is you know, early kind of

(12:10):
nineteenth century started in you know, the East coast gets ostracized,
moves out, you know, to the west, and it's kind
of like this American made religion and it's talking about
you know, Jesus coming to America and you know, talking
about you know, different kind of like the like kind
of mystical geography of the United States. And so I

(12:32):
think that is an important point because they are like
when you begin to look into like the Church of
Latter day Saints today, like they're very they're very connected
into the federal government obviously, the state governments of Utah
and stuff like that. So, yeah, there's a lot.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
We have a big presence out here because the Mormons
were some of the first Europeans to settle this area. Yeah,
they they came over the mountain range and there's a
big giant arrowhead formation pointing down. And so when they
came over the mountain range, they saw this giant arrow
pointing towards the ground, and they go, oh, we're stopping here,

(13:13):
you know, And so they built a big there's a
huge Mormon temple with like a ten foot golden angel
blowing a trumpet on It's pretty it's really kind of spectacular.
But the coffee shop I go to is like three
miles away from the temple, so it's just everyone in
there is you just know their Mormon. There's a look,
you know, there's a look.

Speaker 4 (13:33):
I never said, well, that's what it wasn't the like,
I forget the name of the family. But I read
this book when I was I was really young. I
was in like sixth grade. But it was about like cannibalism,
I think in the Sierra Nevadas, and it was like
that trip from.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
The honor party.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
Yeah, the dot That's exactly what it was. Were they
remember that, Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah. The Mormons, man, they just I guess because they
were so everybody was running them out of town. They
didn't like them. They were just there's tons of like
geological formations and stuff that are named after Mormon explorers
and things. It's really interesting. They like and they like
went to war with the government at one point, and
then they were kind of like, anyway, I can't wait

(14:15):
to hear that thing. But you you asked me, what
do you want to talk about? And I was trying
to get you to look into something so you could
talk about it. I said, have you heard about the
Egyptian planes?

Speaker 4 (14:28):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (14:30):
And so you said, no, what the hell is at
And I said, oh, it's the latest canvas Owen's conspiracy.
And you suggested that I tell you about it.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
Yeah, so we'll get into the because I have the
so I've listened to the stuff that I've listened to
on the Kirk assassination is pretty much exclusively Mormon, just
because it happened in Utah. And the reason that it
gets connected into the Mormons is I guess really through
So first of all, it happens in Utah. It happens

(15:03):
at Utah Valley, which is you know that's is it
in Provo?

Speaker 3 (15:09):
I know the airports and Provo. I don't know if
the university is or not, probably, but that's what you know.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
I think it's a Mormon Mormon institution. But then George
Zen the guy, so there was like I just go
back to the day that Kirk was assassinated, and then
they arrest this old man or this old man is
making a scene and it's the guy that they originally
arrest you know who. And then obviously the story kind

(15:37):
of evolves from there. But going back to him, he
was like very connected into the Utah Republican Party. He
was a delegate maybe like a super delegate like in
the presidential election, so he would vote for them, or
he at least like traveled with the Utah Republican delegation

(16:01):
to you know, to the votes, and so he was
like always kind of around. He would always crash like
Sundance Film Festival, which I think it was like Robert
Redford ran with this other I think Robert Redford's partner
was a like prominent Mormon kind of politician or something
like that.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
But anyways, he I mean he was also at September
eleventh in the Boston bombing. That's yeah, that's president.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
Yeah, he didn't he and then like didn't he call
in like a fake bomb threat to an event after
the Boston bombing like kind of like within that timespan
after I think he like called in a like a
fake bomb threat or something crazy.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
He's an interesting character, man.

Speaker 4 (16:44):
Well, and so he gets when he got arrested, he
willingly told police that he had child pornography on his phone.
So the police were like, well, okay, I have a
look at the phone, and he also was like, oh yeah,
I'm in this like community of people that like share

(17:08):
child porn and so I've been listening to this series again.
You know, I feel like I talk about every time,
but Recluse, you know, he does this series, and you know,
he was like it seems like he was almost trying
to get police to investigate, you know, this kind of
ring that he has, because it's like, why else would

(17:30):
you willingly come forward with that you have tried, like
you know, no one asked. It was completely separate investigation.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
This is one of the parts of this like kind
of like altern alt investigative community, you know, into this
assassination that the Georgians in piece just makes no sense
to me. There there is another Mormon connection though. Are
you aware of the guy who's talking to the bush? No,

(17:58):
oh man, this is great. There's this There's this guy
that a bunch of people like reported to the FBI
tip line and to the police and is on camera
like it looks like talking maybe to a person, but
certainly like talking to a bush. Kind of like he looked.

(18:19):
There's a speculation that he kind of looks like a
fed at first, you know, and anyway, he's the No
one knows why he was talking to the bush. The
bush is right next to he was standing right next.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
To Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
This is why it's relevant, not right next to, but
certainly within. Like you know, if you if there's like
a second shooter speculation or something, or maybe the only
shooter of speculation being closer and lower caliber, that's one
of the conspiracies going around this bush would be like
an ideal spot to position like a you know, not

(18:52):
either a person or like a piece of equipment that
fired a firearm, you know. And uh. Anyway, so there
was speculation that he was like talking to someone in
the bush or checking on a piece of equipment. It
turns out he's the leader of the La Mormon Church.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
Yeah, that's this.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Guy, you know. So can I talk about canvas a
little bit?

Speaker 4 (19:15):
Well, that's what I mean, I know what you're talking
on a few things. Yeah, that was just you know,
kind of like what and I'll I'll bring some more
stuff up around like why that George Zen child porn
thing is is really interesting in the context of like
wider kind of child abuse, child trafficking things happening in Utah.

(19:35):
But yeah, no, let's scale back out and let's talk
you know, kind of candas own's mainstream you know, Charlie
Kirk assassination stuff.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Well, I'm curious what your lived experiences with in relation
to canistones because like for me, I had never listened
to her podcast about two weeks ago. I think I
was like, I see her clips, I keep hearing about
how she's you know, this horrible monster and anti Semita
of the Year and stuff. I was like, I'm gonna
go check it out. Let's see, let's see what all

(20:06):
the fuss is about. Because I listened to Tucker because
he does interesting interviews, like he he interviews interesting people.
He accuses CEOs of companies of murder, like why wouldn't
you want to listen to this? And so I was like,
let me check out this other maligned and hated person,
Candice Owens. It's like it's like she knows how to

(20:33):
be entertaining, Like it is incredibly compelling. I'm kind of
I kind of nowadays, like I think everybody's an OP,
you know, anyone successful to me is like they're probably
an OP, you know, but man, if she's an OP,
she's a fucking entertaining op man like. She just knows.

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Speaker 3 (21:22):
It's you're on the edge of your seat listening to
the podcast, you know, and there's this element of, like
she calls it her decentralized intelligence agency where people like
provide tips to the show. And so obviously if it's genuine,
that would be very susceptible to influence, right, But then
she has like a team of people that like supposedly

(21:43):
vets things. And you know, what's what's interesting about her
is she's doing things you would kind of want the
news to do. Like everyone who got interviewed the day
of about the Charlie Kirk assassination. She like looks into
them like who are they? You know? Uh? And she
finds like every single one of them is related to

(22:03):
a naval intelligence official or like air force, you know
what I mean. Like she just kind of goes like
the next step, and it's like as compelling, like anyone
who's curious wants to know. And I think that's pretty
much all it would be, would be like a popular show.
But the response to her feels so over zealous, like

(22:31):
it like if you I work from home, I write
and I just put stuff on in the background, you know,
I put podcasts on in the background. And there has
just been such like a strong response to her. And
I had heard like she had accused Charlie Kirk's wife
of murder, so it's like, well, I got to listen
to this, you know, and as far as I can tell,

(22:53):
she didn't. So I was like, oh, that's interesting, you know.
And then Ben Shapiro is going around and like asking
people to like publicly condemn her, and most people would,
of course, like why wouldn't you? But then a few
people didn't, And so now all of a sudden, there's
like the Civil War and the Republican Party, and I'm like, man,
this is reality TV. This is fascinating. So I was like,

(23:14):
if I had to predict who would be into this,
I would predict probably like older like boomer women, right,
But that's actually not the demographic that's watching the show.
It's it's younger people.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
Mhm.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
And so I don't it's it's now the most popular
podcast in the world, the Canvas Show. I don't know
a single person in my real life who listens to it. Yeah, well,
yeah with older people. Oh your mom does, okay.

Speaker 4 (23:46):
Oh yeah, my mom is yeah constantly like that's what
when I talked to her, you know, and she's We've
always talked about like politics and different stuff like that,
and we used to fight about it, but recently I've
kind of come a little bit more towards her viewpoints,
and she's yeah, a little bit, yes, yeah, but she's

(24:06):
also like she's kind of come back because she's very
you know, very very conservative and has been, you know
for her entire life, and it's part of like the
Reagan you know, would say Reagan is the probably the
greatest president of her lifetime. You know.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
Tucker got her. Tucker and Candae brought her over to
this new.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
So it was like she was never like super hardcore maga,
but she was always you know, she was voting for
Trump and then yeah, she got yeah, definitely. She listens
to Canasonans. And then even my sister, who's a huge liberal,
has been listening to canis Owans, which is bananas because
it's you know, the like if you look at canis

(24:47):
Owans before kind of the Kirk assassination stuff, it would
be like probably one of the most hated you know,
right wing media personalities and you know, up there with
some of the other ones. And I remember it was like,
previous to this, there was something about like accusations of

(25:08):
like Holocaust denial or accusations that she was like excusing
kind of like the Nazi regime in some way. I
have no idea if that's true, but I just remember
like seeing something floating around about how it was like
she was a Holocaust and I or something like that.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
I couldn't say, I haven't listened to all other episodes.
I will say, though, the kind of pattern I am
seeing is like, so she used to work for what
would have been considered like two like really mainstream Republican institutions,
you know, Pragrie University in the Daily Wire. Now, though
those are kind of viewed not really as Republican organizations,

(25:48):
although they are, I would say to older, less online people,
they're still considered like traditional Republican organizations. Two younger, more
online people. I think those two organizations have sort of
developed a reputation of being very oriented around Israel, like
focused on Israel in a positive way, and so for

(26:09):
a lot of people that's a bad thing. For a
lot of people that's a good thing. Whatever. But she
worked at both of those places, and so she kind
of started talking very publicly about like why are we
funding Israel, why are we wars in the Middle East?
And she got like condemned, right, she got kicked out
of the group, and something about that being kicked out,

(26:33):
she's gotten like really venomous. So she's very publicly like
like she's constantly talking about how much it is not
like the government of Israel. Now as far as like
Holocaust denile, I don't know. I haven't listened to enough
episodes to say, but that seems unlikely. But I mean
just that I was under the impression that she was

(26:53):
saying that Erica killed Charlie Kirk, and then I listened
to the episodes and she's actually like you can tell
she's decided that she's just not gonna go there, probably strategically, right,
because I just think there's a lot of people that
once you go there, they're just like, oh, that's wicked.
So they're just but I don't know, but but she
certainly she certainly has not as far as I can tell.

Speaker 4 (27:15):
So well, I think what like interest has interested me
about it is like there was so okay, so George
sand got arrested. They're like, oh, maybe this crazy old
man was the shooter. He's claiming to be the shooter.
And then immediately they pivoted, like within the same day,
the media and the police like pivot off of that,
and then they go after whoever the person they arrested

(27:35):
for it is, you know, I don't even know the
person's name. Robs Yeah, talking about how Tyler Robinson was
like a part of this like transgender like militant group, right,
and it was just like there was like maybe Furry's
involved and like you know, all this stuff and stuff
like that kind.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
Of yeah, his boyfriend was a transgender furry.

Speaker 4 (27:57):
And so like that story comes out, I'm like, that.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Is and they caught him in thirty three hours.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
Yeah, and so.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Have you focused on that at all? I mean people
make a big deal about that.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
Yeah, that's what I mean. It is like so he goes,
so there's that story, and I'm like, that's bizarre, and
there's no way that that's true. Like I don't know,
it's like I just don't I think that there is.
And that's kind of another different rabbit hole. There is
kind of like a militant maybe like an undercurrent of
some of the transgender communities, but I don't think it's

(28:29):
really like an organic thing that's like springing up in
all these places, like connected to Antifa or something like that.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, I mean listen as possible. It doesn't strike me
as like super likely. Can I tell you about these
Egyptian planes.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, they're just But theo's the one point that I
wanted to make about, like what you're talking about with
kind of like the civil war that's erupted on the
right is like the little bit that I've looked into it,
it now appears that someone like from with it like
that the whoever murder tried Kirk is probably it was
part of this civil war. It's like kind of what
it looks like, you know, I don't think that it

(29:05):
was a militant transgender group, and like they try and
like paint it as these like crazy leftists. So that's
the part that's interesting to me is that, Okay, there's
like someone there is this you know, huge split happening
in the right. And then I've also seen stuff that
it's like, obviously you have the pro is reel media media,
and you have Ben Shapiro, and you have like, you

(29:26):
know that now Trump seems to be kind of aligned
in that camp with super pro is reel. And then
I've seen stuff where it's like Tucker is getting his
money from like Qatar or something, you know, Saudi Arabia
is like.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
Which is something he jokes about on his show a lot.

Speaker 4 (29:41):
Yeah, but it's just like there's it seems like this
conflict in the Middle East is starting to like play
itself out in like conservative media. And that element is
also really interesting of how like you know this kind
of you.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Know, I'll just say, maybe everybody's not maybe everybody's intelligence,
but if you listen to both sides like I do.
I listened to the Daily Wire. I listen to Tucker
just because I will like background noise, and so I'm
not always paying, you know, perfect attention, but I try
to kind of focus. If something is interesting and the

(30:14):
Tucker Candice side and making Kelly is now part of
the Civil War, it feels more authentic. And now that
listen authenticity is something that can be faked as ironic
and contradictory as that sounds, right, but it just certainly
seems more authentic. And part of it is because you know,

(30:35):
there's examples of like clear lies on the other side
that have transpired. I'll give you a couple examples. I
will say ninety five percent of everything I've listened to
on candas own show in the past few weeks has
been circumstantial, very circumstantial, and I'll admit some of it

(30:56):
is odd, and you're like, well, that's weird. You know,
there are some things so that I would certainly consider
real evidence of something like she doesn't really have a theory,
like I think people who don't listen to the show
assume like she thinks the Jews did it, you know,
and there's maybe you could say there's an element of that,
but it's not really it's not it's not. I don't know.

(31:18):
I don't really get the impression of that.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
It does seem like she's genuinely, genuinely interested in the
question of who killed Charlie Kirk and is trying to
like just kind of explore different well.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
And that's one of the oddly that's one a big
part of the circumstantial evidence is that great lengths were
gone to to try to say that her and Charlie
Kirk weren't friends. But having followed both of them, I
know that they were at least appeared to be. You know,
they spent a lot of time together, they went on
tours together, and so I thought that was weird because

(31:55):
I knew she worked at Turning Point with Charlie, and
so like this idea that they didn't know each other,
which was sort of being presented by the Daily Wire.
Side which the Daily Wire and a lot of Christian
evangelical pastors, she kind of incriminates Calvary Chapel a lot.
They've sort of inherited Turning Point, and that's kind of odd.

(32:18):
And that's one of the things that some of her
circumstantial evidence is she's sharing all these text messages which
which the other side of saying heer fake. I don't know,
they don't seem fake. I mean she's opening up her
phone and sharing them. Maybe they're fake. I don't know,
they don't read fake. Like do you remember the text
messages between Tyler Robinson and his boyfriend girlfriend. Yes, those

(32:40):
read fake. Like I read those, I'm like, oh, this
is fake. You know, the ones she's shared him like,
they don't sound fake. But he's very vocal about not
liking Ben Shapiro, which resent it rings true based on
the interactions I've seen between them, you know. And so
there is something kind of slimy about Ben Shapiro where
the day he's killed, he comes out and says, I'm

(33:01):
going to pick up the bloody microphone and share Charlie's message.
I think that just I think a lot of people
that just comes off. It's like, eh, I don't know
what you think, but it's like, oh, like that's a
weird Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:15):
I mean, I mean I had to hate Ben Shapiro.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
So but Candice, on the other hand, took three weeks off,
you know, because she seemed genuinely distraught, and part of it,
she even says, is like people hate me too, you know,
like people hate me a lot more than they hate
Charlie Kirk, Right, So she's obviously a little nervous herself, right,
that something could happen to her. Same with Tucker, and

(33:38):
she was told by one of the Turning Point members
that her and Tucker were on like a list of
targets in the FBI. Listen, I encourage anyone to I'm
not going to get into all the circumstantial stuff, but
I encourage people if you're curious. It is it's there's
something really weird going on, Yes, and it does seem
to be, like you said, some internal folks had to

(34:02):
be involved before you get to the actual evidence. Though.
Did you see that his head of security went on
the Sean Ryan Show. No, okay, so this was like
a big event that something Harpole Ryan Harpol, Brian Harpole.
He's like a kind of like a contractor but for security.

(34:22):
Even though everyone there's like black ops backgrounds and stuff,
and there's this really weird moment in the interview. Sean
Ryan does not push back at all, Like he's even
softer than Joe Rogan as far as argumentation. He just
he mostly interviews other intelligence and military guys. He was

(34:43):
a CIA contractor, Like he does not seem like he's there.
He's basically giving a platform for people to present their
side of the story. And so this Harpole guy's presenting
his side of the story. He seems pretty genuine, pretty authentic.
Maybe I would almost say practiced, which isn't a good
thing necessarily, but he obviously has like press release, public

(35:07):
relations experience. And he's sharing text messages on his phone.
He has a phone, and he's sharing text messages and
it's between him and the local police chief, and there's tech.
He's presenting it like they're from him. And he's saying,
I text the police chief that we're concerned about a
stairway up to this particular location. There's no access control.

(35:31):
Can we get some of our guys up there, or
can you get some of your guys up there just
to control access? And the police chief says, got you covered, right,
And so he's basically pinning it all on this police
chief who's like now unavailable for contact, right. And so
this was the only time Sean Ryan pushed back and goes,

(35:58):
you didn't think to follow up, like what do you mean,
Like what has got you covered me, you know, and
he goes, well, hey, it's a grown man. He said,
just got me covered. Soon he's got me covered. Well,
turns out those weren't his text messages. He wasn't texting
the police chief. It was another guy who Candice is

(36:21):
constantly implicating in these conspiracies named Dan something, who works
at Turning Point, who is having the conversation with the
police chief. So it's like, whoa, that's kind of now
I got to rethink everything I listened to in this
interview because that's like kind of a like a lie,
you know, not a small one, that's like a bold fate.
Like he basically pinned the entire security failure on this

(36:46):
police chief based on a conversation. He's holding a cell
phone up and saying, look, I text him, but he didn't. Yeah,
these are this other guy's text messages. So I don't
know what to make of that, but I think that
is very strange. Doesn't point to any particular theory. It's
just there's there's a pattern of like lyne.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
Mm hmm, well, I mean, like I can see okay,
there's like.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
A hundred of these examples. It's just one, but.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
Good and That's why it's like I can see something
happening where it's like, Okay, you go to a million
events a year, like you're speaking on college campuses all
over the place. Nothing like the craziest thing that happens
is that you have like you know, vigorous protests, you
know of crazy liberals, you know, shouting and screaming, maybe

(37:38):
like throwing water, like throwing trash or something like that.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
That's pretty common, yeah, he said. He said, that's one
of the things they're most worried about, is like people
throwing rocks off the top of elevated positions and bottles
of acid, piss whatever.

Speaker 4 (37:52):
Yeah, and so it's like I, you know, so you're
dealing with stuff like that, and so you're kind of
like I can see the security team almost like going
through the motions being like, okay, well let's try and
like you know, cover this and cover that, and then
all of a sudden, it's like, oh, someone shoots a
fifty cat or you know whatever the weapon was, you know,

(38:13):
off a roof assassinates the guy that you're starting to protect,
and then it's like, oh shit, like we can cover yeah,
like this looks super bad for us, and in order
for us to like, you know, I can see trying
to cover it up, you know, kind of from that
angle of being like.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Well, I totally get what you happen. I would totally
get why you depended on the police chief. I just
don't understand why you'd present like that's a pretty deliberate misrepresentation.
But but yeah, no, you're right. I mean he does
make the point like we're here to protect like two
hundred feet like we have a collapsing dome of security,
Like we're not protecting from cruise missile strikes one hundred

(38:51):
miles away, right, like we we have we expand outwards
and mostly crowd close crowd control. But the the weird
part is so they make a really big deal about
being concerned about the rooftops at this location. Like a
huge part of the interview is about how concerned they
were with these vantage points and how they weren't allowed

(39:11):
to use drones, even though the word drones flying, but
he's saying that like the type of drones he uses
required different license or something. And then yeah, just the
fact that like if you're so concerned about like why
present the narrative that you're so concerned about the rooftops
and then have this weird like you never checked about
the rooftop. I don't know, it was just weird. It's

(39:33):
not really. This isn't the part I wanted to spend
this much time on. I got to get to the
Egyptian planes.

Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah, come on, tell me about them, tell me you want.
You specifically told me how you wanted to explain how
the Jews ran planes through Egypt.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
That's what I specifically said. The opposite, I said, what
do Egyptian planes have to do with the Jews? And
you said, well, I assume, I assume.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Tell me. I mean that's, you know, kind of been
your take from the beginning.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
No, it has not. I think it was. I I
think first let me just tell you my take. Now.
I think this was a military operation of some kind,
probably domestic. That's my take. I think this was like
a domestic operation, like the idea of conducting I'm not
saying it's impossible, but the idea of like foreign intelligence

(40:27):
agencies conducting assassination attempts and broad daylight. I mean maybe,
but it just seems way more likely, based on the
very limited amount of evidence, that this was like a
domestic thing so okay, let me tell you about these
Egyptian planes. So I encourage people to listen. It's just
it's like one hundred episodes of Canvas. Let me just

(40:47):
try to summarize it quickly. One of the things she
did with her like Decentralized Intelligence Agency is they're looking
at tail numbers of planes. Is that we're at the
airport that day in Provo. An odd thing is that
Charlie didn't actually land in Provo, which should have been

(41:08):
where he landed. He landed in Salt Lake City because
he had a meeting and the meeting was like with
some nobody guy. And even that's odd because at this point,
Charlie Kirk's a pretty important figure. Like he's not just
a YouTube influencer. He's running one of the largest political
organizations in the world. It's bigger than the Republican National Committee.

(41:29):
At this point, donations are huge. If you want to
meet with Charlie, you go to Charlie, right, But for
whatever reason, he went to Salt Lake City to meet
with this restaurant tour that day. Very strange, and so
Candas's idea was like, well, let's see who is at
the Provo airport that day, like is there a reason
why he couldn't go there? Right? And so there's these
two Egyptian military planes there and she gets the tail

(41:52):
numbers for them or whatever, and she goes, Okay, well
that's first of all, that's weird. What are Egyptian military
planes doing in provo? But you know, the real world
is complicated. It's not like the movies. You know, there's
lots of reasons why some foreign dignitary or whatever whatever.
There's a million different reasons. So she goes, let's see
where these planes have been. And these planes have They've

(42:14):
been all over the place, you know, the week before
they were at an Air Force intelligence base in Montana. Interestingly,
that base is home to they do like marksmen training.
They're actually there's a particular operation called Operation Valhalla, which

(42:37):
had just returned from Minnesota to do like live fire
marksmanship train like special sniper training. And the only connection
she makes there is that Cash Betel oddly, in the
same speech where he keeps saying the word thirty three, says,
you know, he'll see Charlie and Valhalla, which is kind

(42:57):
of a weird thing to say about like a Christian
blun But whatever, I don't make much of that stuff anyway.
What's weird about these planes is that they've been at
the same airport as Charlie, I think thirty times in
the last year. And you can actually do like a
statistical probability of, like, what's the likelihood of overlapping with

(43:20):
other planes at the same airport, just if it was
random probability, and it's it's not. It's not random probability now,
but that that doesn't mean it's evil. It just means that, like,
these are these planes, there's some connection, right, there's some
maybe they're tailing Charlie for some reason.

Speaker 4 (43:40):
Well, and then yeah, when I was talking to because
I said that I would like I would call my
mom and have her brief brief me on that, she
was saying that, like maybe Candice had said that they
were not maybe not actually tracking Charlie, but that they
were more connected to Erica.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Right, So basically there's thirty airport overlaps with Charlie, and
Candice was running with that. But then someone wrote in
and said, actually, because this is all public, you can
track tal numbers in the US. She said, actually, if
you change the name to Erica Kirk, it's about eighty

(44:15):
airport overlaps and the only reason Charlie has thirty is
because Charlie flies with Erica a lot, right, And so
it's like, wait, what why are these two this two
Egyptian military planes following Erica kirkround again. It doesn't point
to any particular theory. It's just odd, okay. And then
here's where it's a little bit odder. These planes arrive

(44:36):
in Provo the week prior and they rent I think
seven cars, seven rental cars, and one of them's a
RAPH four. This is relevant because there's a RAP four
and a lot of the photos of Charlie Tyler Robinson. Sorry.
And so there's some work being done right now to
try to look at licensed plate reader databases to try

(44:58):
to find where those rental cars went. But you could
kind of dream up a theory like let's let's say
this is some off the books intelligence operation. Well, it's
totally reasonable that you might use foreign military planes. Okay.
The thing about foreign military planes is they would be known.
You can't just fly non commercial military planes around America

(45:22):
like these would be known. They would need they would
need to have some kind of like special clearance or
access to just be flying to military bases in Montana,
and you know they were there on the East coast
at military basis. So like these are known entities and
they have some kind of clearance, So it'd be reasonable
to use these planes if you're gonna do something shady.

(45:44):
So they arrive in Provo the week prior. They rent cars,
so they're there not at the airport, but in cars
somewhere in Provo.

Speaker 4 (45:51):
Do you do they like know who was renting the cars.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
No, we do know that one of the people was
a foreign dignitary when they left. They know first because
one of the planes flew to the East coast and
they had some kind of like foreign diplomatic something that
tells us that one of the passengers on one of
the planes was a foreign dignitary. But here's what's interesting,

(46:17):
So like you could imagine that they might because one
of the criticisms of the Tyler Robinson thing is that
there should be more video of him. You know, there's
there's a lot of surveillance on campus. The video is
it's it's just one shot from one angle. It feels
it's very curate, it feels curated, like, it feels very curated.

(46:41):
There should be more and it's like, well, maybe they
don't want to taint the people keep saying they don't
want to mess up the trial. But it's like there's
a lot there's plenty of time for footage to be
released before he was even really like a suspect, right,
And so Kansas's theory is that basically this team shows
up and they they create this footage, They get Tyler

(47:03):
Robinson on the roof the week prior and videotape him
with closed circuit you know, closed circuit cameras and stuff.
And that would be wildly speculative if it wasn't for
the fact that there are three people who called the
FBI tip line to report a guy who looked just
like Tyler Robinson on the roof the weak prior. So

(47:25):
there are eyewitness accounts that there was a tall, skinny
white kid on the roof right there the week earlier,
right all the eyewitness testimonies seeing him that day. This
ties back to what I said earlier were from people
with like intelligence backgrounds, Like this is when she digs
into the people who are like on the news commenting

(47:49):
and doing public statements and stuff. Okay, here's and this
is really the it this is it. This is not
evidence of anything, but it's fucking weird. So those two
planes are at the airport, and you can see when
a plane is powered on. If you want to turn

(48:09):
the air conditioning on, if you want to run power
to a fridge, you need to turn the plane on,
and that turns the transponder on. And so one of
the things a military plane would have would be encrypted communication.
So if you wanted to use an encrypted phone, you
would have to turn the plane on and then you
could make a call or whatever. And so like a

(48:30):
few minutes after Charlie Kirk has assassinated, one of the
planes's transponders turns on for thirty minutes and then turns
back off. And so the idea is that there's some
kind of communication, like basically like we did it, you know,
and then one of the planes flies with the foreign
dignitary to the east coast and that's all we know.
It's just I don't know, I don't know what you

(48:52):
make of it, but there's something about these planes. They're
tied to Erica and Charlie just they seem to be
tailing them for the past year, and then they make
a communication potentially right after the assassination, and they're in
Provo the week prior and they rent cars, so they're
not they're not they're they're mobile. They're doing stuff in

(49:14):
Provo for the week leading up to the assassination.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
Yeah, it's bizarre. Yeah, I mean that's exactly what you said,
is like, who knows what to make of that?

Speaker 3 (49:25):
You can't make anything of it.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
Yeah, Yeah, but what you did say, like made what
you said about it being kind of a domestic kind
of military intelligence operation is really interesting because one of
the things that I was listening to, you know about Utah,
is so there are two divisions of like the United

(49:47):
States Military that are responsible for like domestic affairs in
this like if there was ever like something I guess
it's like if the president were to be assass It's
like you call these two special forces divisions. It's continuity
of government is what it's called. Is like they're responsible

(50:07):
for continuity of government. And one of them is located
at Fort Campbell, which is partly in Tennessee, partly in Kentucky,
and that's the one hundred and first Airborne which is
you know, they go back. There's a long story of
like one hundred and first Airborne, but I think it
was maybe Band of Brothers is yeah, based on yeah,
the one oh one, and they're like World War II

(50:29):
heroes and all that kind of stuff, but they have
like a rapid response unit for the East Coast, and
so it's like, if something happened, then the one hundred
and first and maybe the eighty first Airborne out of
Fort Campbell would go to like Washington.

Speaker 6 (50:43):
D C.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
But the equivalent of the one oh one, I think
it's like the Special Operations Division, I think it's SOD
nineteen is located in Utah and they are responsible for
continuity of government operations on the West coast. So if
anything crazy were to happen, like if the or to
be some sort of attack, you know, in California, then

(51:04):
it was like you would bring the SOD nineteenth from Utah.
And I might be getting that division kind of mixed up,
but I do know that that military base where there
our houses in I want to say, it's Salt Lakes,
Salt Lake City, and so if there were you know,
some sort of domestic military operation, then Utah makes a

(51:26):
lot of sense for it to happen because that's where
you know, in proximity is that base, And that ties
back into kind of like, you know, a little bit
of the Mormon angle is you know, they are known
for being very very connected into you know, kind of
like that branch of the military and very connected. Like

(51:49):
there's so I can't remember if we talked about it
on another episode, but it was talking about like how
many Mormons end up in the FBI and the CIA.
It's like kind of the same thing, or it's like
a lot of them end up in the military. And
there was an example like a few years ago of
this guy from that military division training a Mormon, like

(52:13):
a fund a fundamentalist Mormon paramilitary sect. And so it
was like he was training them in kind of like
special operations and you know, I don't know, I don't
think he was necessarily providing them with arms. But there's
a really interesting, you know, paramilitary community. You know, all
of these fundamentalist Mormon sex seem to have like a

(52:34):
compound with a paramilitary involved in them, with like you know,
kind of high level training.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Oh my gosh. Well, one of the there's two other
threads that she's like constantly trying to tie into this,
and one of them is kind of related to that.
I want you to. I want you to make this
one of our episodes soon because I'm really into this.
She's really into and part of this might be kind
of related to Ancy Summit. I don't want to. I mean, listen,

(53:03):
everybody's got problems. If this is what's motivating her, then
that's a bad thing. So I don't know. She claims
it's not, but I could see it being. But she's
really focused on Calvary Chapel right now. And one of
the reasons is because Calvary Chapel has gone after her
very publicly and lied. Admittedly, they've they've told some lies,

(53:25):
right and and there. They just seem to be really
upset about this, and they're really involved in Turning Point
Faith now, which is under scrutiny because Charlie was trying
to do a financial audit of Turning Point Faith because
they've paid out millions of dollars in payroll and they
have no employees because it's an endowment. It's it's sorry,

(53:47):
there's a Turning Point Faith has an endowment that's paid
out millions of dollars to employees, but it doesn't have
any employees, right, And so he was trying to do
a doge of this, That's what he said. Eating up
in the weeks to this event, you know, millions of
dollars missing. They haven't filed their taxes in like two years.

(54:09):
They haven't filed their Form nine ninety, which is a
federal requirement anyway, So he was really concerned about that.
And there's like a lot of Calvary Chapel folks involved
in Turning Point USA now. And the reason she's interested
in Calvary Chapel she has this theory that like almost
all of the pastors come from military intelligence families, and

(54:30):
so she just has this sort of I guess you'd
call a conspiracy theory that there is like intelligence infiltration
into some of the larger churches in America, which honestly
makes total sense. Why wouldn't you do that, As like,
why wouldn't you do that? He'd be to probably get
in trouble for not infiltrating the largest churches in America.
Right from a I don't know, national security perspective, I

(54:51):
guess you would justify it as I'm not sure, but
there's like a lot of child trafficking convictions, not just allegations,
but convict like pastors doing ten years in prison and
then being rehired to manage youth programs and stuff. And
so it's dirt, some dirty stuff, man, And I have
Calvary Chapel family members, so they don't like that I

(55:12):
brought this up, and I don't blame them, but there's something.
Sus what's his name, Cash Bettel's twenty six year old
hot girlfriend is a member at the local Calvary Chapel
church down the street from me. It's very interesting and
so there's a lot of Calvary Chapel military intelligence connections
and they're very involved in the pushback. Like a lot

(55:33):
of famous Christian YouTube influencers that I just thought were
like non denominational Christian folks, they're actually Calvary Chapel pastors.
I didn't realize that, and so they have a very
influential presence online. They're basically now running Turning Point with
a lot of some of these Daily Wire folks and stuff.
And so she's really pursued that angle. So I would

(55:55):
love to dig into that. There's a lot going on locally,
like literally church that family members have been to. There's
like serious international trafficking allegations, and that's the kind of
shit I feel like people should talk about all the
time because that's like the most important thing, you know.

Speaker 4 (56:13):
Yeah, now that's fascinating and yeah, okay, yeah, well definitely
there's no coherent narrative. There's no coherence. But like this
is where I've been trying to, like with the Mormon
connection like that, I've been kind of like going down
that rabbit hole. There's child trafficking throughout that as well,

(56:35):
and so it's just like it's very hard to reconcile like, Okay, well,
what does child trafficking have to do with murdering Charlie Kirk?
Like that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
But there are all of these like including what you
just said about Calvary Church Calvary Chapel of like there
being kind of a human trafficking element of that, and
then there's all these human trafficking elements present in Utah.

(56:57):
There's something strange going on, you know with that, there's
like a strong undercurrent.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
Yeah, I think we got to stop being afraid of
just saying like it seems like there's a lot of
like child trafficking and maybe not even just child trafficking,
but sex trafficking and kindophilic weird ship going on in
the government. I don't understand why that's like political. You know,
I've been saying this forever, like why is that political?
You know, it's not that's a political like this is

(57:24):
a real problem. Now. The other thing she keeps trying
to tie into this is U Macron.

Speaker 4 (57:32):
Yeah, okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
And to me, I do not I don't really understand
the connection. I mean, there's some connection. There's like a
there's a French.

Speaker 4 (57:43):
Like they has a history with Macron.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
Yeah, yeah, Well what her thing with Macron is that.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
What is the wife's name? What is his wife's name, Brigitte. Yeah,
she's claiming that he is a man.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
She's claiming that John Michelle Tragno, who is like a
family member of Brigitte trug knows and like disappeared, was
actually her him, like he was his figure and then
he changed his name. But brig and listen that aside.
The whole thing's weird because she was like he she
was fifty or whatever when he or she met this

(58:27):
fourteen year old boy who's now the president of France
and they started banging, so there's right off the bat. Yeah, yeah,
this is a old is now oh like seventy or
sixty eight years Yeah, yeah, she's got she's got hell
of a haymaker. She can still punch like the best
of us. I don't know if you saw that video
where she punched her husband, his husband, her husband, Yeah,

(58:50):
like dectum and then he realized he was.

Speaker 4 (58:53):
Is their husband? We can use if it's.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
I think it's actually I'm supposed to say her because
she's yeah not doesn't identify as a transgender woman. But
she decked them and he didn't realize he was on camera,
and then he realized and he acted like he didn't
just get like a right cross. But anyway, she's trying
to try that together. What's interesting about Macron though, is

(59:17):
that she didn't say anything about mk Ultra, but mk
Ultra is mentioned fifteen times in the lawsuit from them,
and she had she had like a brief thing where
she mentioned that she thinks Michael Treugna was this mk
Ultra subject who disappeared, Like she names the number and listen.
All the evidence is interesting in compelling, I don't know,

(59:40):
but again, like with a lot of this stuff, you
wouldn't give it any weight until you see the response. Yeah,
like the Egyptian plain thing is like, well, it's certainly interesting.
But then you just see this like overwhelming response about
how anti Semitism or whatever. It's like, I don't understand.
And then with Macron, she makes this brief comment about

(01:00:02):
mk Ultra that's not really defaming, Like the transgender thing
saying you're a man that is defaming. I could see
a lawsuit about that, but the mk Ultra comment is
not the fame but just mentioned fourteen times in the lawsuit.
Why would that be? You know, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:18):
Well, And then okay, so it wasn't the lawsuit being
like waged in Wilmington, Delaware. And then didn't like the
planes end up Yes in Wilmington.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Yeah, here we go, buddy, you talking to your mom?
I like it. Yeah. So there's a mixed use intelligence
building that has like as like CIA Naval Intelligence contractor anyway.
And next to this airport that these planes landed in.
I think they may have even seen some license plates
from rental cars or something. I don't know. And yeah,

(01:00:52):
there's a there's a hangar they were at that was
leased by France for two years anyway, none of it
makes sense.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
Yeah, no it doesn't. That makes sense. Yeah, that's interesting.
But to pull it back, Okay, So I'll go and.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
I just I've just debriefed twenty episodes worth of material
on you.

Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
There you go, Yeah, and that's what you know, and
that's we'll definitely I'll look a little bit more into,
you know, some of those threads that threads that you mentioned.
But then to get so I'll pull it back a
little bit to like the Mormon thing, because you mentioned
a couple of things too, Like you mentioned Cash Patel,
and you mentioned like a couple of these other things,
and that ties back into you know, this kind of

(01:01:32):
whole Mormon thing. So George soon gets arrested, tells the
police that he has child porn. He tells police that
there's a community of people that he shares child porn with.
And George Zen was very connected into the Utah Republican Party.
So I guess the speculation would be that maybe some
of these members of this community that he's in would
be connected into the Utah Republican Party. And the reason

(01:01:54):
that that speculation might be, you know, informed speculation and
not just like crazy conspiracy theory is because there's multiple
sex trafficking allegation like lawsuits, slash police investigations that are
happening in Utah, and one of them there's not an

(01:02:14):
active investigation. And I haven't even really found like a
ton of substantial like allegations of human trafficking with Operation
Underground Railroad. But do you remember the Sound of Freedom? Yeah,
that movie.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
I didn't see it, but I remember, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:32):
Yeah, So that was like that whole thing, and it
was Timothy Ballard, and Timothy Ballard has been like, you know,
you can go there's a whole interesting biography of Timothy
Ballard and kind of how shady he is and all
this stuff that he's been doing. But he was very
connected in, you know, with you know, I believe he's
part of the you know, part of the Mormon Church
and you know, very highly connected in the Church of

(01:02:53):
Latter day Saints and then also connected in with the
federal government. And so I was looking into like these
connections between Timothy Ballard and Cash Battel, and I think
it was under the first Trump administration, Timothy Ballard was
like at the White House working you know with Cash Battel,
fighting human trafficking.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Or did I just see that name Timothy Ballard?

Speaker 4 (01:03:18):
But no, you're good. It's like he so he was
fighting human trafficking in you know, around the world, is what.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
Kind of the whole thing with Sound of Freedom was.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
With Cash Battel.

Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
Yeah, like that Cash Battel is kind of like had worked,
you know with him, and then I think Cash Hotel
maybe maybe contributed some money to like Sound of Freedom
or like one of the movies, like one of the
documentaries that Timothy Ballard was doing. But anyways, the employees
for Timothy Ballard launched a sexual assault lawsuit against him,
and so he again yeah, so he was like fighting

(01:03:55):
human trafficking, but like six of his employees came out
with a lawsuit that was like he sexually assaulted us.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
Like okay, I need to comment on this. Yeah, so
you're familiar with like the phrase agency capture. Have you
heard that before. It's just like if you're in an industry,
you know, you become an expert in that industry, right,
and then like when people are looking to build a
regulatory body to regulate that industry, they need to they

(01:04:24):
need to hire from within, you know, like if you're
if you're regulating oil companies, you need to hire oil executives,
right because you just need people who are knowledgeable. And
so over time this happens with every regulatory bodies, you
get agency capture. The FDA is nothing but former PFISER executives,
you know, ANDFVIISER executives used to work at the FDA.

(01:04:45):
Like it's just a revolving door. Every regulatory body gets captured,
it's agency capture. It kind of makes sense that if
you're the FEDS investigating child trafficking, that there'd be some
agency capture. And the reason why this is interesting that
Harble guy I mentioned who lied about the text messages
to the police chief m So how he got his start.

(01:05:10):
His explanation didn't make any sense. I didn't understand how
a civilian could be doing this for the federal government.
But he would pose in Mexico as a buyer for
child sex slaves. Okay, So he would go into warehouses
filled with beds, he said, and he would buy children.

(01:05:31):
And your first side is like, oh, how noble. You know,
guy's risking his life. But then I'm just like, man,
that's a weird fucking detail, Like that's a weird detail. Man.
It's almost like cover like if a video ever comes
out of him buying children, it's like, well, I told
you I was posing as a buyer, right, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:05:48):
Well, and he okay, So that's what like Timothy Valder was.
And I think he was like working a lot in Mexico. So,
like I said, I haven't been able to find a
ton of these allegations, but there's allegations that Operation Underground Railroad,
instead of fighting human trafficking, was actually acting as a
conduit for human trafficking. And so these employees came out

(01:06:10):
and they accused him of sexual assault. He resigned from
Operation Underground Railroad. And I want to say that he
ended up like he might even still currently he's over
like in the Middle East. I think he might be
in Israel, like based out of Israel. So that was
a very strange fact.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
Well, you can't extradite, you can't extradite for pedophilia from Israel.
I hate it's true Jewish community. Watch you should watch
it ran by Jewish people. By the way, this dude
that I just want to like beat this into people's heads,
like somehow we need to get people to stop conflating
all these terms, like my neighbor is Jewish. I like
my neighbor literally and the neighbor's literally Jewish. Great, amazing,

(01:06:46):
incredible guy. You shouldn't have to get these disclaimers. But
there is a group of Jewish people who monitor people
who have fled America to Israel for pedophile convictions, pedophilia
convictions because there's no extradition, sorry to mention.

Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
No, that's and that I mean would make sense if
you're feeling the heat and you're being accused of child
trafficking or like, you know, you if you have been
engaging in something like that, maybe that's you know, why
he went why he went there. So there's the Operation
Underground Railroad. There's Timothy Ballard. There's a whole bunch of
like if you look into Timothy Ballard, like you can
look into his connections and you can look into like,

(01:07:23):
you know, kind of his infiltration of different organizations and
stuff like that. So that's interesting. Another one is David
Lee Hamblin. So David Lee Hamblin is this like psychiatrist, Well,
I think he was a psychiatrist or like a psychologist
who was accused of running a like a satanic ritual abuse,

(01:07:46):
child sex operation. And so what it looks like is
that the satanic element of it may have been kind
of like overblown just to discredit like the victims, and
like what he was actually doing was more of kind
of like I guess, you know, quote unquote normal.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
You know, hich just regular regular, yeah, regular.

Speaker 4 (01:08:12):
So and like that is still I believe in open
investigation in the Utah Police kind of. But he was
using like narco hypnosis and planting like false memories into
his victims so that like when they would have a
story like he would actually abuse them while they were
in this state, but then he would give them, you know,
try and implant a memory about how it was like

(01:08:33):
you know, the satanic thing or whatever. And he has
a lot of curious connections, and so I don't know
a ton about like you know, kind of his some
of his connections. But there's been a huge kind of
like internal war within.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
Sorry, we've been doing so much of the Charlie from
Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Red Yarn Meme, who you're talking about,
Timothy Ballard or you're talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
This is a different this is a different kind of
like child This is just just going through like the
list of child traffic came issues happening in Utah. And
so this is a different one. It might be kind
of peripherally connected, like if you look kind of go
far enough down the rabbit hole, you might see some
connections between Hamblin and Ballard. But Hamblin is like, you know,

(01:09:15):
he's actually been charged and he is you know, there's
a current like police investigation going into you know, David
Lee Hamblin. And so yeah, he was using like narco hypnosis,
which is like we've talked about that. That's an MK
ultra tactic, you know, and implanting false memories. It's the
same kind of like you know, same kind of thing

(01:09:36):
that was happening back in the fifties. And so that
is another one. But if you look at the like
the other So you mentioned Mexico and dude, this do
you know anything about It's called like colonial o'baron in Mexico.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
Is this the Mormon Mexican settlements?

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
Yes, that stuff is you know that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
These family comes from one of those settlements.

Speaker 4 (01:10:02):
Yeah, and that's what they again, it's like that's what
I mean. It's like you get back into it and
this goes back to what you were talking about with
like the war, like very in the very beginning when
we were talking about Mormonism of like the war with
the US government. There was eventually the you know, normal
Latter day Saints condemned polygamy and then the fundamentalists sex

(01:10:22):
they fled to Mexico. And this was like late nineteenth
century century, early twentieth century. And one of these families
was the Liberons. And the Liberians would kind of like
go back and forth between Utah and Mexico, and like
they would go to Utah to try and recruit more
members to their church. The latder to like the church

(01:10:43):
would persecute them, you know, for good reason, and then
they would go back to Mexico and they would have
the kind of this enclave and whatever. Well, the Libarons
in like the seventies, like there was this kind of
like civil war that erupted within this church. And it's
I think it's called The Sound of Gravel is the
story of like a LeBaron family member who I think

(01:11:06):
she may have like escaped kind of the church or something.
But she tells the story about how her uncle Irvil
le Baron murdered her father. He sent like hit a
hit out on her father because there was like a
rivalry between the two for control of this church. And
then Ervil LeBaron goes back to Mexico, and you know,

(01:11:27):
it takes a long time for him to be arrested
or prosecuted, but it was tough to like actually convict
him because he was doing what essentially Manson was doing.
You know, he was just ordering you know, ordering the hits.
So that's a much much more difficult like murder prosecution
to to secure. But anyways, the le Barons, like in

(01:11:48):
Mexico get caught up with the Nexium cult goes down
to the Libarons and they were recruiting teenage girls from
Mexico from like schools that the Liberians like helped set
up and taking them from Mexico to New York and
different kinds of things like that. And so there's and
the Liberians have been involved in drug trafficking and human trafficking,

(01:12:12):
like that's a fact, like that's definitely known. And there
was an incident in like twenty nineteen, just like recently
where nine of the LeBaron family members were killed and
they were killed by either like a drug cartel or
part of the Mexican military or something like that, and
so it's like these people are one hundred percent involved

(01:12:34):
in child trafficking and then yeah, I mean there's a
ton of other stuff this well.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
I always see there's like this impulse it happened with
the Mexian cole, it happened with Jeffrey Epstein. There's an
impulse to describe these events. There's like a whitewashing of
it where it's like, oh, Jeffrey Epstein is the most
notorious pedophile ever. What a creep, He's a creep, he
is I agree nexium. Oh wow, this cult of personality

(01:13:03):
about Keith R. Niery, Like what a freak? Like what
a what a deviant freak? And it's like okay, yeah, yeah,
but these were international, billionaire backed, quasi governmental child trafficking operations,
Like this is not the story of one freak, you know, like,
let's not let's not allow it to be characterized as man,

(01:13:25):
remember that crazy billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein that died in prison,
Like no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, Like this
is an international organized something. And when you start seeing
elements of that tied up in this Charlie Kirk thing
potentially in this whole weird Calvary Chapel thing, and of
course obviously the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church and

(01:13:46):
what the fuck is going on? Like I think it
should be like mandatory. I rewatched the Darryl Cooper Tucker
Carlson interview about Jeffrey Epstein and they do like an
hour about like the pediph feel like and satanic art
and like Tony Podesta's home, and it's just like, dude,
there's something going on. Yeah, you know, like if you

(01:14:09):
can go to dinner parties with like murdered children paintings
while you're eating shrimp cocktail and your cocktail dress, like
it's systemic. It's not Tony Podesta's problem. It's everybody's the problem.
If you can just go attend to these things where
you eat food off like fake dead children and stuff
like they did all these weird rituals and stuff, Like,

(01:14:32):
what the fuck is going on? Dude? Is this spiritual?
Is this like a because one of the things about
the Naxiom cult is like you had to get blackmailed
in you know, you had to like you had to
like cheat on your husband and videotape it knowing it
would be used as blackmail, and so I think that's
our speculation about Epstein is like you're getting blackmailed into

(01:14:53):
a club, you know. So is it just that? Is
it demonic? Is it the worst angels of human nature?
Where if you're given power and money and you just
are maybe we're all deviance inside. I don't think so. Like,
I don't think that's true. I think as percentage of
us are, and maybe that percentage is more attracted to

(01:15:14):
power or are we channeling demons like Poohark, what do
we do? Tell me? Tell me what's going on? Man?

Speaker 4 (01:15:21):
You have to know, I have no idea, But I
mean the spiritual, the spiritual, the spiritual component of it
is is very plain because so another the Fundamentalist Church
of Latter day Saints, the FLDS, which is there's a
documentary that was kind of like a show on Netflix

(01:15:42):
and I'm forgetting the name of it, but you could
just look up FLDS Netflix documentary and you'll find it.
I watched it, very disturbing, very weird. But they would
go and they were like committing these child sex abuse acts,
like in the temple, like on the altar, and they
have they would keep like either video or audio recordings

(01:16:03):
of it, like in this like vault that they had,
and eventually it was like the FBI got into the
vault and that's the evidence that they used to like
put Warren Jeff's away in prison. But they're taking child brides,
they're married, they're marrying fourteen year olds, you know, in
these different kind of like some of the more extreme
like fundamentalist churches, and it's you know, part of their

(01:16:28):
you know, it's not just like the religion. And this
is what I used to think, but it's like there's
no way, like I can't think this way anymore. It's
like I used to think that they were like using
the religion as a front, you know, that they didn't
actually believe in this kind of like you know, Satanic
stuff or believe in like, you know, the religion that
they were just like using it as a front to

(01:16:50):
like kind of divert attention away from whatever they were doing.
Whereas like now it seems like, okay, well it seems
like a part of you know, the spiritual practice too,
and for whatever reason, like I don't have no idea
what it is, but it is extremely prominent and it's rampant.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Yeah, so depressing. Man, We're and we're kind of focusing
on Uh, we've talked a lot about Christian denominations being
involved with this trafficking stuff, and obviously that is true.
I mean we all know the allegations and convictions and
stuff in the Catholic Church. You're mentioning the Mormons, but

(01:17:30):
this is kind of pan denomination, like pan faith, like
obviously like Islam, Like you go down a lot of
dark stuff with pedophilia in Islam, both hetero and homosexual
of them. I mean there's lots of stuff with Judaism
too that's been reported. And Christianity obviously. And so it

(01:17:53):
seems to me like if you were a part of
whatever this is, like you would want to infiltrate like
the local religious movements, you know, like like you would
want to be running this stuff through a Christian nonprofit
organization in the Ukraine, you know. Like it just it

(01:18:15):
just seems useful, like if you're deceptive and evil that
you would want to be in government, you would want
to be in church leadership, you would want to be
in military leadership, like and so maybe it's no surprise
that this is where we tend to find all these things.

Speaker 4 (01:18:30):
I don't know, Yeah, I mean it's yeah, I don't
know either. And it's like I also go back to
just kind of like how I was thinking about this,
like recently of like when did this switch in like
this evolution and morality happen from like used to be

(01:18:52):
in the ancient world. Like we read all these stories,
hear all these things about how like pedophilia was just
generally accepted, like you know, Rome, Greece, you know, these
different places, and then it's like, Okay, at what point
then in human history does the collective consciousness pivot towards
like Okay, this is unacceptable, this is not okay. And

(01:19:15):
then like, is this just the remnants of like a
historical practice that has been embedded into society and culture
for thousands of years that like just continues to be
embedded in it or has it you know like kind
of adapted and evolved. Like that's just you know, one

(01:19:36):
of the things that I was thinking about earlier today.
But yeah, I mean there's no like real answers to
any of these questions.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
That's an interesting point that is this just like a
reversion to the norm, like is this the decay of
Western civilization? I mean, but there's just something something like
so pervasive about it, Like it's so it's and it's
such a class thing, Like it's such an elitist problem,

(01:20:05):
you know, like it's it's a it's a ruling class problem.

Speaker 4 (01:20:10):
Yeah, I mean the organized, like the organized element of it,
and the human trafficking element of it, Like you have
to be in positions of power to get people across
borders and to get you know, to pay off judges,
police forces like whatever it is, to like quash investigations.
There definitely is this class problem. But they're also I mean,

(01:20:31):
like if you look at the majority of convictions for pedophilia,
and like that data is skewed obviously because you know,
not as many rich people are going to be prosecuted
for stuff like that, but I mean the statistics show
that like the majority of pedophilia happens like within families.
You know, it's like the creepy uncle, like the stereotypical.

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
Step a step parent is the most common I think.

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
Yeah, yeah, and so it's like, yeah, I mean I
agree with you, like in terms of like the organized,
like the networks, is this elite problem? But there is
also you know a significant portion of the population. You know,
it transcends class, and it is just this you know,
there there's I don't know, it's like almost like something

(01:21:16):
embedded in the like consciousness, like you're in the unconscious
of humanity that this is like you know, like I said, historically,
you know, practiced in all these different cultures and societies,
and you know, now it's like that whenever that happened
like two or three hundred years ago, a few hundred

(01:21:38):
years ago, when you know, the rest of us are like, okay,
quit with this shit. You know, this is obviously unacceptable.
This is obviously completely a moral you know, disgusting behavior.
Like the rest of us like get on board with that.
But it's like there's this you know thread that like

(01:21:58):
it never stopped. You know, there's never a point that
you can like look at human history where it's like, oh,
like that you know, that behavior and that activity you know,
cease to exist.

Speaker 3 (01:22:11):
Shit, I don't like that. I don't like that answer.
I like the idea that there's demonic rituals going on
and that there's like it's just something completely unique to
these like satanic pedophiles and not a part of human nature,
but it could just be a weird genetic deformity.

Speaker 4 (01:22:34):
But like you want to take it back to kind
of that angle. I mean, isn't that like isn't like
sex and sexual perversion like one of the main kind
of like themes really like I guess like sodom and gomorrah. Ye,
you know you can kind of think of like, you know, this,
this is one of these things that are like sexual
morality in the way that we like behave sexually is

(01:22:56):
one of the like primary themes of the Bible.

Speaker 3 (01:22:59):
Yeah, absolutely, And.

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
Like that's kind of like and sometimes where it's like
some of the issues that it's like I have, you know,
kind of with like this Christian stance against homosexuality where
it's like I have, you know, no tons of gay
people like love my friends like have a real issue
with like hardcore Christians being like, you know, homosexuality is

(01:23:22):
a sin. But I'm like wondering, I'm like, maybe that
wasn't necessarily like the point of you know, some of
those laws or some of those beliefs like back in
the day. Maybe it was because there was like really
terrible sexual sins happening and like abuse of children happening,
and like their response to that is to be like, Okay,

(01:23:43):
well this is how you are, you know, this is
how you promote like a moral sexual attitude towards you know,
like marriage or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
You know. Let's dude, let's talk about that a little bit.
Because I've been thinking about this a lot lately, just
because for the for some of my life and started
reading the Bible. Jesus doesn't ever really talk about this
like he talks about he talks about sexual morality an
adult yeah, yeah, yeah, and so like, yeah, I mean,

(01:24:14):
but he doesn't he doesn't really. I always I just
assumed there is this, like some somewhere in the Bible
Jesus said like a man shall not lie with the
man as he does one man. There's something sort of
like that in the Old Testament kind of. But but no,
he never talked about He just talks about sexual morality
and adult tree. But here I think this is maybe
a more important thing. Somehow this message has gotten perverted

(01:24:37):
about Christianity, and maybe intentionally, maybe unintentionally, but the central
premise is that we are all sinners, okay, And so
even if you wanted to make the case that Jesus
said homosexuality was a sin, which he didn't. But even
if you did want to make that case, because and
you're reading like it is a part of sexual morality

(01:24:58):
or like adul tree because you know, know, a man
should join his wife and become in flesh, and therefore
it is sexual morality.

Speaker 4 (01:25:04):
I get that, yeah, that the point of sex is procreation, yeah,
and that it's not like pleasure, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:25:11):
Right, yes, But but even if you get there, it's like, okay, well,
if it is a sin, we are all sinners, and
you would view it, you would demonize a gay person
in the same way you demonize yourself for being gluttonous
or for drinking too much. It's like, it's not like
necessarily like a character flaw. It's like it's just something

(01:25:34):
that you're struggling with. Now. Obviously as a gay person,
that's still going to be very offensive because like in
your mind, and maybe it is true, I don't know,
this is like who you are, and it shouldn't be
a sin to express the true version of who you are.
I still get that it would be wrong, But just
the fact that it's treated so weird, Yeah, Like fundamentally,

(01:25:55):
like Christians emphasized. It's way overemphasized, like we talked as
much about like eating too much food.

Speaker 4 (01:26:03):
That and it's like you know, you know, yeah, like
I might be wrong about exactly it's you know, you know,
and I might be wrong where it's like maybe they
like did elevate it as like on the hierarchy of
sin back in the day, like you know, back in
before Christianity, Like maybe Judaism elevated homosexuality like above some

(01:26:25):
of the other sins. But like when you read Leviticus
and you go through like what was considered a sin,
it's like eating shellfish at a certain point, and there
is like for women, it was like if you were menstruating,
like not, you weren't allowed to be in the temple
like you were you know, unclean, and there's all of
these purification rituals that you would have to go through

(01:26:47):
and if you didn't go through then then that was
like a serious sin. But like it never struck me
as like like the way that homosexuality has talked about
in the Bible never struck me as like this mortal
sin actually elevated above the other sins.

Speaker 3 (01:27:03):
And christian should be especially sensitive to that point. Because
the whole Gospel is Jesus rebuking the Pharisees for being
such sticklers to the to the Mosaic law, like like
the like the bleeding thing, the unclean woman that touches
his garment, you know, and and he heals her, and

(01:27:23):
everyone's mad at her for touching him, and he's like, what,
what the hell's your problem? Basically like I came here
to do miracles. This woman believes in me. I healed her. Like,
why are you guys so freaky about the script? About
the law? Yeah, and this this is like I think
people just kind of have the assumption that Jesus came
and like affirmed the Old Testament, and like, in some

(01:27:45):
ways he did, but in a lot of ways, He's like,
you guys are obsessed. You're obsessed with rules, you know,
so Christians should be really sensitive to that. They should
be like, why are we so obsessed with peculiarities to
use of the rules oddly in a way that doesn't
make sense, you know anyway? Yeah, sorry, you got me going.

Speaker 4 (01:28:07):
No, that's what it's been, you know, because I was
talking with I was talking with someone about this recently,
and they have a they strike me as someone who's
kind of like very confused about spirituality. Like they have
this like very like evangelical almost like Southern Baptist approach
to like homosexuality, but then they're also like not adhering,

(01:28:32):
like the way that they look at the Bible is
that it isn't literal and that it's an allegory. And
he's talking about like ascending and like reincarnation, and so
I was like, yeah, dude, I don't really know what's
going on.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
Literally literally a direct quote from Jesus's be not like
the hypocrites, you know, like like there's just something so
horrific about being hypocritical in that way. But I meant,
listen to the woman, you know, the the prostitute who
they're going to kill, and he's starting he's writing their
sins in the sand and he's like, let the person
who has not sinned casts the first stone. I mean,

(01:29:04):
this is the message of the New Testament. But you
would not know that going into I would say ninety
nine percent of Christian churches, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:29:12):
And that's what you know. And like I said, it's like,
you know, he has I think on the Sermon on
the Mount is when he addresses adultery, and it's like
that's the you know, kind of the sexual morality piece,
and especially when you read I think it's Mark where
it's like, oh.

Speaker 3 (01:29:25):
Man, like he goes pretty hard. I would say primary.

Speaker 4 (01:29:29):
And like like and I think there's another version of
it where it's like a little bit less pronounced. But
I think, like, you know, some of the Gospel authors
were like, you know, wanting to emphasize that point. I
think it was specifically Mark, you know, really wanting to
emphasize that point. But that's what they said.

Speaker 3 (01:29:45):
Think of the disciples, Sorry to interrupt you, but the
disciples like are like, why would we get married? Then
that sounds horrible, like you know, and he's like, hey,
well the kingdom needs eunuchs. You know. They basically like
basically like this your only choice. You get married and
have sex with your wife or you don't have sex,
you know, And so I don't know, I dude, he does.

(01:30:07):
He goes hard about like, if you've even lusted after
a women, you've committed a sin, but or committed adultery.
But you have to take the context into account. Women
were treated horribly in the Roman Empire, and so to
take such a hard stance, which is really I mean,
women today I don't think feel this way. But it
was very pro woman. It was very much like we

(01:30:30):
need to protect women not have concubines. Like I don't know,
it was pretty radical for a two thousand year old,
you know idea.

Speaker 4 (01:30:39):
And that's what I mean is like I think it's
like we take some of these ideas out of context,
and like we take you know, sometimes like the Sodom
and Gomora thing like out of context, and it was like, oh,
they were like engaging in homosexual sex.

Speaker 3 (01:30:51):
That's why they were trying to rape angels.

Speaker 4 (01:30:54):
And that's what I mean. I'm like, I think that
there was like more like way more serious sexual sin
was happening. That there's a subtext in the Bible, like
it's not explicitly coming out and being like you know,
they were sleeping with fallen angels, and they were you know,
like all sorts of things, sleeping with animals, like you know,
they were like they were messing around with like you know,

(01:31:18):
the creation. They were messing around with, like you know,
these different kind of things. And we've talked about like
genetic manipulation and you know, the whole thing with like
Genesis six and stuff like that, and so it feels
like like when you take that read of Genesis six
and you're like, Okay, this is the sexual sin that
the fallen angels were engaging with, and they're disrupting God's
creation and they're trying to like overtake the kingdom, you know,

(01:31:41):
kind of through infiltrating humanity and stuff like that. It's
like that's more of what it feels like to me,
of like not necessarily that like a homosexuality is like,
you know, this massive sin. It's oh well, like trying
to fuck a fallen angel is the sin. Like you know,
trying to like you know, create a hybrid between a

(01:32:03):
sheep and a man is the sin. Like you like,
whatever the fuck they're doing.

Speaker 3 (01:32:07):
And even even if homosexuality is a sin, it's there's
every one of us sins every day. And but this
is the problem because then you get in the position
where it's like, well, really you should be trying to
repent of your sins, and dude, I don't know. Maybe
I don't know, I'm not going to wade into these
treacherous waters. I'm not sure. I don't have that impulse.
So it's easy for me to say, I don't know,

(01:32:29):
but God to struggle with eating too many cheeseburgers.

Speaker 4 (01:32:31):
Man, Yeah, well that's it. Yeah, I mean, like and lust.

Speaker 3 (01:32:35):
I mean, I'm not gonna lie. All men struggle with lust, right,
and like.

Speaker 4 (01:32:38):
Oh, I mean I'm an adulter, you know, Like, but.

Speaker 3 (01:32:41):
There aren't people on the street corners shaming me for me, yeah,
a horrible piece of shit. You like, there are, you know,
or not as much anymore, but there still are, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:32:50):
Well that's what I mean. And there's what I mean.
Every day there's a scandal of a pastor who you know,
cheats on his wife and like all this kind of thing,
and it's like, well, okay, well that's what Jesus was
more explicit about than homosexuality. You know, he was more
explicit about you know, that's in it. And they let
you know, those pastors, like you know, they don't kick
him out of the church. They let him go on

(01:33:10):
apology tours. And it actually, you know, raises funds for
them because they get to act like they're sorrowful about
what they've done. And it's like, you know, I know
that you're not like I like, if you're truly sorrowful,
then you would step down from being you know, a
pat like whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:33:28):
I think there there's this repentance idea is so interesting
because I do I do feel like one of the
objections to Christianity is like, well, so you can just
do whatever you want and then as long as you
say sorry, you're good. And it's like anyone who's really
like hit a real low point and it's just like
desperately like wanting forgiveness. I mean, like I don't know,

(01:33:50):
I just think you become a lot more compassionate. You
become a lot more like willing to accept apologies. You know,
you're like, okay, you did something horrible, well, and you
truly are repentance, like all right, I forgive you, you know,
and another just another thing to bring up all these
random thoughts are coming, sorry everybody, but I resonate with
this like criticism of like the Old Testament God being

(01:34:14):
very different than the New Testament God. I do get it.
But you know, it is interesting because there's kind of
like this theme and the Old Testament insisting that God
is like jealous and ventful, yes, but like also very
willing to forgive. That I think is kind of overlooked,
like for that story you're talking about with the people
who are literally trying to break down lots door and

(01:34:36):
rape some fallen angels, is it? Is it lot or
is it?

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
Well?

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
Anyway, one of them is trying, is pleading with God
not to kill everyone, and he's like, all right, find me,
you know, twenty good men, and he can't, you know,
find me ten good men and he can't, you know,
and so like he there really is this implication like
this was a fucking horrible sedition, stick miserable place, you know.

(01:35:02):
Yeah yeah, and then I mean yeah, Jonah, he tries
to run. He's supposed to go warn this town that
they're going to be destroyed and they need to repent.
He tries to run and he ends up being thrown
in the ocean and swallowed by a whale of three
days whatever, and he finally gets backed. I forget the
name of the town, but he warns the people and

(01:35:22):
they repent, and he hates these people. They repent and
God spares them, and Jonah says to God, this is
why I didn't want to come warn them, because I
knew you would forgive them, because that's the kind of
God you are you forgive everybody who repents? So I
don't know if I really one hundred percent agree that,
like the God of the Old Testament is like this horrible,
vindictive monster, and then Jesus is like this totally different.

(01:35:45):
I mean, Jesus is radically different than everybody obviously, but
it's kind of consistent. It is kind of this consistent
idea that like repentance forgiveness. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:35:57):
And that's what I mean. It's like you we're preaching, Yeah,
I mean there's an interesting like I said, it's like
six thousand years ago. I mean, it's like you can't
even imagine going back, you know. And that's why, like
if you're like looking at story like stories of the Bible, like, okay,

(01:36:18):
what it's like, what's happening with the fall? You're not
supposed to eat what's happening with the fall of Man?
You're not supposed to eat fruit? They eat the fruit,
and then it's like you fucked up big time and
now everything is in like you know, everything is fucked
and so it's like and then there's cane like can to.

Speaker 3 (01:36:38):
Me, there's obviously a lot of allegory and metaphor going
on in Genesis. I mean, some people read it like
super literally I don't know, but anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:36:45):
But it's just like whatever happened, like you know, whatever
happened with that, like whatever the fruit represents, like whatever,
you know, whatever it is. It's like, you know, clearly
they fucked up. They get expelled from the garden, and
there's like Cain and Abel and Cain murders Able and
then Adam and you would have another son that's Seth,

(01:37:07):
and that's like the line of Seth is the righteous ones,
the one that like David descends from and eventually Jesus will.

Speaker 3 (01:37:12):
There's a lot of bloodline stuff in the Bible.

Speaker 4 (01:37:15):
And then it's like you have a line of the
blood line of Cain. And that's where I think you're
like if you want to look into, like you know,
kind of the demonic angle of like channeling demons for
sexual sin, like that's where you would want to start
looking into that kind of thing, because it's the line
of Cain that you know ends up sleeping with the
fallen angels. And in Genesis six, so it's like I

(01:37:36):
think like maybe the reason that God is so like
vengeful and wrathful is because like there was some really
bad shit that was like happening, like maybe like the
blood line of Cain and like some of the cities
that they were producing, like maybe it was a big deal.
Like you know, you can't go back, you know, to

(01:37:57):
those places and like understand what was going on. I
don't think it was just like oh, like you told
a white lie to like your wife today about like
where you were and now you're going to.

Speaker 3 (01:38:09):
Hell Like well, I mean, the implication is it's way
worse than we can imagine, and like stuff was pretty
fucked up in Roman times, you know, and the implication
is like it's so much worse. And like, listen, dude,
if you could go to Tony Podesta's house and uh,
he's got his little sex dungeon there, yeah, you'd probably

(01:38:31):
fucking throw him in the ocean, you know, totally. It
seems like a totally reasonable thing to do. Yeah, but
there's this idea like was there really no one who
deserved to live? And it's like, well, I don't know
how metaphorical some of these stories are, you know, like
I don't know if Noah's family was literally the only

(01:38:51):
humans that were worthy of saving, I don't know, But
if we're winding down, since we're getting kind of pre
I got a quote for us. You want to hear it,
let's do it all right. So Jesus is hanging out
with some kids and the disciples talking to him about
you know, there's a lot of context, but Quoco's hard man.

(01:39:16):
It would be better for him that a millstone be
hung around his neck and he'd be cast into the ocean.
Then he should cause one of these children to sin.
I don't think it. You know, if God is real,
which I tend to believe, I do believe, I does
feel reading the Old Testament and the New Testament that
there is like a special kind of vengeance for these

(01:39:40):
type of people we're describing, you know, like these type
of elitist international child traffickers. At least we gotta hope,
so man, we gotta hope there's some cosmic justice because
it is some dark, dark stuff we're dealing with.

Speaker 4 (01:39:56):
So anyway, No, that's I think that's exactly right. And
that's what I mean. It seems like more to me
that it's that kind of and you know, as far
as for like what the motivations for it are, like
maybe it's like, you know, the most extreme form of
lust and like maybe that's you know, what is motivating it,
or maybe it's part of this kind of like mk

(01:40:18):
ultra thing that they were you know, trying to recreate
in the fifties that it's like there's something about children
and like having an unformed personality that makes them more
susceptible to like mind control. Like if you're able to
like traumatize children at a young age and kind of
brainwash them, you know, if we're talking about like back then,

(01:40:40):
maybe we're not calling it, you know, psychological warfare, but
maybe that's kind of a form of black magic of
like you know, you can get this person and like
you can influence them, and you can turn a child
into a monster because it's like they don't have, you know,
the same cognitive capacity that adults have, and that you know,

(01:41:02):
this is a pattern that repeats as children who get
abused tend to abuse like later in life. Yeah, you know,
so many of these like serial killers and so many
of these like serial rapists. It's like when you look
into their history, like we I was talking about Manson,
you know recently, it's like Manson was you know, probably
part of this mk ultra yeah, Milieu. Like he was

(01:41:26):
in the prison system in you know, Kentucky, like the
juvenile prison system in Kentucky, which is like a lot
of this stuff was happening West Virginia, like Chilicoth, a
lot of it was happening. So there's a lot of
evidence for that. But his personal life, it was like
his mom was I think she was a prostitute. He
was abused by like, you know, men when he was younger.

(01:41:46):
He was made to wear a dress to school because
his uncle thought he was like a sissy. When he
was in the juvenile penitentiaries and stuff like that, he
was being sodomized. There are cases of him, you know,
sodomizing other inmates, and it's like then he turns out
to be this huge monster, and it's like, well, yeah,
that makes sense because as a child he was like

(01:42:08):
this whatever it was got a hold of him, and
you know, you can't get it's much. I'm not saying
it's impossible to get away, and like I'm not saying
that everyone who gets abused as a child, like you know,
becomes an abuser, but it is much more difficult when
you're traumatized as a child to escape that behavior. You know,

(01:42:28):
when you're older compared to someone who who does not
have that background.

Speaker 3 (01:42:32):
Yeah, I mean for people hurt people.

Speaker 4 (01:42:35):
Yeah, and that's what kind of like that Jesus quote
made me think of, like maybe that's more of what
they're talking about with like sexual sin and sexual perversion.
Is that, like you know that is unacceptable to like
you know, do to I mean, and like obviously with
like rape and stuff like that, you know, absolutely on
it unacceptable too.

Speaker 3 (01:42:53):
But I mean you, I know, people have really strong
opinions about this, but that just makes so much more sense.
I mean, listen, a lot of Christians have never read
the Bible. I mean, but you read read those first
four books. I certainly don't get that sexual immorality is
referring specifically to homosexuality. It could include that. I mean,

(01:43:14):
there's no real there's no way to know. It's not addressed.
I mean, let's just be honest. It's not mentioned, it's
not addressed. But I think it probably started where who
I'm assuming it was a Catholic church who came up
with the word sodomy to describe anal sex. I mean,
because it's not in the Old Testament.

Speaker 4 (01:43:34):
Well that it comes from sodom.

Speaker 3 (01:43:36):
Oh, I know, but I know, but it doesn't say
explicitly anywhere that there's like all this gay sex going on.

Speaker 4 (01:43:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's probably're probably right.

Speaker 3 (01:43:45):
So whoever linked to that, whoever made that the word
for that, this has got to be where this stems from.
It has to all come from that. Yeah, it could
be that simple. It could be that simple. Yeah, I
don't know, because because the craziness going on inside of
Gamora is that, you know, unhinged hybrid lunatics or trying

(01:44:06):
to rape angels. I mean, that's what that's what's explained
in the Old test not not gay sex. I mean
that could have been part of it. I don't know
what a wild episode.

Speaker 4 (01:44:18):
Truly started with the Mormons ended with gay sex. I
mean maybe.

Speaker 3 (01:44:25):
Listen, I'm not super like passionate about defending this one
way or the other. I just hate I hate hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy just like it hurts me, it wounds me. And
that's the thing that was so attractive. The first time
I read Matthew Mark Luke John, I was like, oh
my god, this whole thing is about hypocrites. Suck. Who
doesn't like that story?

Speaker 4 (01:44:44):
You know? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:44:46):
So anyway, Okay, I think we did it. I think
so can we look into this Calvary Chapel thing. Yeah,
I don't just want to be what like constantly bash
like Christian groups, but like, dude, if you're doing sex trafficking,
you're worthy of being bashed, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:45:05):
Well that's what I mean, that's what I guess the
role if you like want to be a true Christian,
it's you know, you don't just turn a blind eye
to just because always says they're exactly you know, just
because someone says they're a Christian, you know, you're like
I was supposed to they're on my side. You know,
we're on the same team. No, it's supposed to be
you know, you're supposed to.

Speaker 3 (01:45:25):
Be looking at Jesus says to purge evil from your midst.
And that's obviously the right thing to do, even from
a practical sense, because like you want to have the
moral high ground, like if if you're if you're trying to,
like for whatever reason, you know, spread your ideas to
other people, like they need to be good ideas and

(01:45:46):
you can't be a hypocrite and you need to have
the moral high ground.

Speaker 4 (01:45:49):
So well, and that's what you know with all this
kind of thing. It's like, you know, we talk a
lot about the occult on this show, and we bashed
you know, the a cult for doing weird fucking shit,
and that's a huge part of it. But it's like,
I guess it's like I am not against occultists because
they are occultist. Like, I don't care really about people's

(01:46:12):
like spiritual beliefs as long as you represent, like you
have a good morality. So it's like if there's an
ocult community of say, you know, witches and they are
working towards yea, yeah, and they hunt down pedophiles, and
then it's like I'm gonna be aligned with them more

(01:46:34):
than the Christians who are trafficking children, you know, just
just because you say, like, you know, that's what is
more and that is probably not the what I'm supposed
to do, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:46:44):
I wonder though, I wonder if it because like there's
really only one organized group that commits more pedophily than
the Catholic school system. Do you know what it ish? No,
I don't, the public school system, And so it might

(01:47:05):
it's I think we get excited because listen, I grew
up with lots of like Catholic hate, you know, religious like,
oh stupid Christians, you know. So I think we it
does get exciting because calling out hypocrisy is exciting. I'm
not retracting my earlier statement like it is exciting, but
I do kind of wonder like it's definitely not a

(01:47:29):
Christian problem, you know, Like I don't know, I think
it's the hypocrisy that makes it so offensive, you know,
but this is I think your ritis is might just
be a human problem, which is kind of sick and
obviously not all humans. This whatever is I think. I
think they say it's like three percent of a population

(01:47:52):
is a psychopath, and this is pretty much a stable number.
It's not very successful for reproduction, but it can be
you know, like especially with younger women. You know, psychopaths
have a male psychopaths kind of tend to be attractive,
but long term they're unstable, so they can't obviously raise

(01:48:15):
a family. And so it's like three percent of the
population is a psych male populations a psychopath. I bet
it's something like that for these freaks, man, Yeah, I
think so.

Speaker 4 (01:48:25):
But I think it's like they are so powerful and
influential that it like three percent. It turns into like it's.

Speaker 3 (01:48:37):
Well, that thing that's the heart of the matter, Like
why is it that they we pay taxes to them,
like it's one thing for three percent of the population
to be pedophiles and they're evenly distributed, and we try
to seek them out and get rid of them. But no, no, no, no,
they run the world, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:48:52):
Yeah, and they have organized networks where they're kidnapping children
from third world countries and you know, just disappearing you know,
humans all over the place. So I mean it's like
one of those things like you said, where it's like
you look at these statistics and you're like, oh, three percent.
Well it's like, well, you know, we'll do what we can.
We'll we'll handle that.

Speaker 3 (01:49:13):
But then it's like, you know, no, no, no, they're
they're they're your governor, they're your yeah, they're your they
work at the CIA, they're listening to your phone calls
like they're the king of whatever country, Like, yeah, they're
these are not just random people. How can people support us?

Speaker 4 (01:49:33):
Sub stack Hemispheric Press check that out. We've got some
cool things going on over there. Just published another poarch thing.
I've got to get back to the the Ebstein thing
has been back in the news. I got to finish
that series.

Speaker 3 (01:49:49):
When's your book coming.

Speaker 4 (01:49:51):
Out next year? Is sometime, so we we just got
to find time to write it. We got some more
I think we got some more authors on board for
the publishing thing. So I've got a lot of editing
work that I'll have to do, so it'll be managing.

Speaker 3 (01:50:07):
It'll be we're working on a fantasy book. We're working
on a King Arthur book, working on an Atlantis book.
It's like more of a textbook, is that it. If
you listen, if you're interested in writing a book, hit
us up. We're probably gonna be a little bit more
selective than usual because David is overwhelmed and he's writing
his own book and we're podcasting, and he's got a substack,

(01:50:28):
so he's very busy. But listen, send it anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:50:32):
One hundred percent. That's what well we're gonna make. We're
gonna make all these dreams happen one way or another,
you know, just in.

Speaker 3 (01:50:39):
The business of exposing pedophiles and making dreams come true.
Welcome to Bad Brad.

Speaker 4 (01:50:44):
That's exactly right by your books. If you haven't already
by Shroud pilled by God's eye view and we may be.
I'm trying to launch a Patreon soon, you know, not
because we are greedy and want more money, but it
will help support kind of support what we're doing. We

(01:51:08):
put a lot of i would say, free labor into
the various projects that we have.

Speaker 3 (01:51:17):
Definitely free labor.

Speaker 4 (01:51:18):
Yeah, that hopefully at may like some point, may you know,
turn into a revenue stream that allows us to kind
of continue continue going on.

Speaker 3 (01:51:29):
My dream for Hemispheric Press and Bad Press is for
you to be working full time, but like thirty hours
a week is editing and writing, and ten hours a
week is knocking on Calvary Chapel doors asking an interview
the just formally disgraced pastor.

Speaker 4 (01:51:45):
I mean that would be that's yeah, I mean that's
my dream as well. So and that's what right now,
we that is not possible, but if we, you know,
start things like the Patreon, it's just a way for
people to kind of support the show and we'll have,
you know, kind of an episode every couple of weeks.
What I want to start with I want to do

(01:52:07):
a deep dive into Peter Lavenda his biography. So this
dude is nuts He's really big in the UFO world.
He just did a like over a four hour interview
with Jesse Michaels, who's you know, the American Alchemy. He's
like the UFO podcaster these days. Peter de Lavenda is
also part of To the Stars Academy, which is Tom

(01:52:29):
DeLong from Blink one eighty two and there's a bunch
of Pentagon guys in that anyways, written a bunch of
UFO books.

Speaker 3 (01:52:36):
I went to an Angels and Airwaves concerts. I was
so excited because I'd never listened to Angels and Airways,
but I loved Blink one eight two, and I just
remember sitting there in the stands, like, what the fuck
happened to Tom DeLong? Yeah, And now knowing that he
was like basically abducted by the CEA and made to
propagandize about UFOs, it totally makes sense.

Speaker 4 (01:52:58):
Well, so that's why in these biographies of these people
where it's like, okay, once one thing, the stories that
they're telling, the stories that they're telling aren't really interesting,
and it's like why are they telling these stories? Why
are they CIA operatives? Like blah blah blah blah, But
like their actual biographies and what these people get into.
So like this guy Peter Lavinda, he gets involved with
the American Orthodox Catholic Church in New York and becomes

(01:53:22):
like what's called a wandering bishop, and he did it
to get out of like the Vietnam War. But it
was a front for American intelligence. And so it's like
when he's seventeen eighteen, gets recruited into intelligence, and then
now he's writing UFO books in his like sixties.

Speaker 3 (01:53:35):
Why has no one tried to recruit me for intelligence? Listen,
I now I'm a little bit more principled, so you
might have a hard time, But dude, ten years ago,
you could have recruited me to do anything. You know,
I believed, I believed in the American mission. I would
have been in a station in Lebanon listening to phone calls.
I would have done whatever where we're I just I'm

(01:53:56):
upset I didn't get recruited.

Speaker 4 (01:53:58):
Yeah, I think if I not, if I would not
have had a you know, various crippling addictions in my
early twenties, then I may have ended up in some
sort of.

Speaker 3 (01:54:14):
Bro you think these operators don't have some crippling addictions.
You would have figured.

Speaker 4 (01:54:18):
Yeah, but it's like if I would have, like, you know,
stuck to my original plan, I'm going to law school
or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:54:25):
Yeah, I think you need to go to like a
prestigious university or something. They can't. They're not they're not
combing the local community colleges. They wouldn't have found me.

Speaker 4 (01:54:34):
So that must be it.

Speaker 3 (01:54:35):
That must be it. All right, everybody, what's your next
episode about?

Speaker 4 (01:54:41):
Maybe we'll do the Mormons, maybe we'll do the cavalry
chapel thing. We'll see. Should have a little bit of
time to research this week.

Speaker 3 (01:54:47):
All right, we'll play it by your If you have
a book you want to write, please email David at
Hemispheric Press at gmail dot com. Check out our substack,
buy books, support the Patreon once we have it, look
for links in the show descriptions. David, talk to you
next week.

Speaker 4 (01:55:04):
Appreciate it, buddy, have your night.

Speaker 7 (01:55:07):
Six friends, one dinner, and then the bill. It's chaos,
Oysters for the table cocktails that were basically water the
total Manhattan wrench.

Speaker 2 (01:55:16):
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Speaker 8 (01:55:49):
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(01:56:11):
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Speaker 6 (01:56:19):
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Speaker 1 (01:56:37):
Hi everybody, it's me, Cinderella, Ax, you are listening to
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(01:57:01):
I know I was gonna tell him, how do you
get the app? Just go to fringe radionetwork dot com
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we got to keep cleaning these chimneys.

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Charlie Kirk Assassination Revisited - Bad Press

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Charlie Kirk Assassination Revisited - Bad Press