Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
If you are listening to the Frane Radio Network franradionetwork
dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to bad Press, the show where we cover topics
that will get you uninvited from your next dinner party.
My name's Trevor. I'm the co host, joined by David. David.
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm doing pretty well? How about yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Pretty good? I think we should start off immediately by
addressing the elephant in the room, which is, if you
listen to our last episode, the name of our podcast
was Nobody Knows. Now I'm bad at naming things. Turns
out there's ten other podcasts named Nobody Knows. Unbelievably, bad
Press is available. There's another show called bad Press, but
(00:52):
they haven't posted in like four years. So I think
we're I think we're good, and it's a good name
for what we do because I think what we do
is deep dives on controversial topics.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I think so, I think sometimes.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Esoteric topics, sometimes controversial.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I don't know, yeah, I think, Well, we'll probably run
through a range of topics and issues over the course
of the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Nobody Knows.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Actually came from It was a concept by invented by
a man named Wavy Gravy.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
Do you know who Wavy Gray Gravy?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I have no idea.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Wavy Gravy was one of these hippies and he was
part of like the Mary pank like Mary Pranksters, like
the guys who who kind of put on woodstock. Yeah,
and he ran like a presidential campaign called Nobody for President,
and he would play around with this concept that is,
like nobody loves you, nobody wants war, nobody wants peace,
(01:54):
nobody represents you in Washington, so vote Nobody for president.
And so they like made Nobody into this like, you know,
you would personify the concept of nobody. So I always
liked that, but it also has you know, it would
be a popular name for a podcast for other reasons.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, I mean for I thought it was interesting because
to me, that is always a conclusion on every like
conspiratorial podcast or even like investigative journalism podcasts. At the
end it's like nobody knows, man, We're just the flabs,
the plebs. Yeah, we don't know.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
And so that's why, Yeah, it makes sense. And then
we we workshopped Alchemy.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh oh, I wasn't even gonna share all of our
terrible name idea.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
We struggled for a week trying to come up, and
then yeah, Bad Press was like, you know an eleven
fifty nine and eleven to fifty nine PM name so.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh yeah, literally ten minutes ago. I mean we are,
I think we are. We're trying to do something. Listen,
there's a million podcasts we're two talk about you know stuff.
I think what we're trying to do is like we
would like to approximate something that in some way resembles journalism.
(03:12):
Like we're not necessarily going to send you to the
front lines of Gaza to report from the ground, but
the Internet is sort of still free. We can do
something that sort of looks like journalism. And uh so
Bad Press is great, I think, I think so.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Yeah, it's really like just compiling, like the episode that
we're going to do tonight. It's not groundbreaking, you know information.
There's nothing new that has not been reported on.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Hey, don't ever sign up for a sales job. Let
me tell you. Don't listen to folks, it's groundbreaking, it's
her shattering.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Well, what I mean is that it's not we don't
have like sources, you know, on the inside of that
right intelligence network.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So it's like what but there.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I mean, hey, but we'll protect our sources. If you're
out there and like to give us some inside info,
we'll take we'll take your testimony.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I did reach out, So I did reach out to
like a creator who I am a huge admirer of,
and he responded and he confirmed a fact.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So we do have sources.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
So that's what.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Yeah, I mean, we're we're working our way towards yeah,
kind of like more you know, standard journalism. But that
being said, I mean, like there's none of this stuff
gets you know, especially with like stuff like Epstein, Like
it doesn't get like reported in the mainstream media when
everyone is talking about it. Like some of these facts
and some of this research that's available out there doesn't
(04:46):
mean that it's like common knowledge. It's not just going
to be you know, your run of the mill CNN
news segment or whatever.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
It is.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah, it's bad press. It's not it's not a what's
the word they use, and you do like a puff piece, Well,
I guess a puff piece. But it's not no puff pieces,
no hagiographies. This is it's bad press. And who could
be more deserving of bad press than Jeffrey Epstein, which
is who we're talking about tonight, and we should say
(05:15):
it's the end of July twenty twenty five. If you're
listening to this in the future. There are many times
when the name Jeffrey Epstein was headline news, and so
I should probably mention why it's headline news again. You know,
it's not not necessarily a political show, but this is topical.
(05:36):
You know, I would say, sorry, I'm downstairs. I have
a bunch of people walking above me about what a
month ago, a couple of weeks ago, we were sort
of delivered the disappointing news from our president that there
is no such thing as Jeffrey Epstein. Why do you
keep asking about Jeffrey Epstein? What is the why you
(05:59):
guys obsessed about Jeffrey Epstein? And so obviously that was
disappointing for a lot of folks who believed, I would say, reasonably,
but maybe not that. Uh, we might get a little
accountability for some of the Epstein stuff. Now in hindsight,
that's insane, but we were hopeful, and it appears that
(06:22):
won't be the case. So I'm gonna ask you the
question that my grandmother asked me to start her episode.
My grandma bless her heart. I love her. Nobody's saying
anything bad about my grandmother. She's an incredible human being.
But she asked me, who cares about Epstein? And so
(06:42):
I'll ask you, why do we care? Why do we
care about Epstein? I was shocked. I didn't know how
to answer the question. I was like, I couldn't get
the words out of my mouth, But why should we
care about Epstein?
Speaker 4 (06:53):
It is one of those like things that, like when
the news first broke in twenty nineteen, it's like the shock.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
And horror of a pedophile.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Ring existing within the elite echalons of society really like
gripped the public. And I would say that like the
public you know, became, you know, immediately kind of obsessed
with the story because of that, like I said, kind
(07:28):
of the shock and horror of like, how can this
be happening? How can there be a child sex trafficking
ring involving a guy who's on the on a private
plane with you know, Bill Clinton something like twenty six times,
you know, with involved with Bill Gates, one of the
(07:50):
richest men in the world, you know, responsible for you know,
so many you know, advancements in society.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
He was a founder of the Gates Foundation.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yes, Bill and Milinda Gates Foundation, And well, yeah, we'll
talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
But it's pretty it is pretty nice. But it followed
the typical trajectory for all conspiracy theories, which is, there's
no way that's true. You're a conspiracy theorist. That was
step one. Step two is, oh my god, it is true,
but why do you care?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
But that's what So it's like it's been this kind
of it's we're now six years from from that arrest,
and it's like this exhausting process of you know, the
media picking it back up every now and then politicians
picking it up every now and then, and they're using it,
you know as a political you know, as a political
(08:50):
weapon to wield against you know, their opponents. But then
when the rubber meets the road and it comes time
to actually revealing what information the government has on you know,
this operation, nothing happens. And so it's like, you know,
Trump in his campaign, you know, used it to his advantage.
(09:12):
You know a lot of like the maggot Bass is
very big on exposing you know, pedophilia within you know,
the elite circles. There was you know, QAnon and those
kind of conspiracy theories with like Pizzagate and that formed like,
you know, a core belief of a significant number of
you know, Trump supporters, and so he would play on it.
(09:32):
I wouldn't say that he was like out there stumping
for it necessarily, but I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I mean, I we I think folks had every reason
to believe he would try to deliver on that issue
because of some of the people he surrounded himself with.
You know, he put a lot of people in positions
of power who were very very vocal about releasing this stuff,
you know, Cash Betel, damp Bongino, even like total see
(10:00):
all these people, and so I do understand why it
is like a headline news where all of a sudden,
everyone's like, no, it doesn't exist, it's not important. And yeah,
I mean and again.
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Speaker 2 (11:14):
I think it's only still in the news because that's
like now a Democrat talking point or piece of leverage.
You know, well, and that's.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
What you know. And so for me, it's like I
kind of look at it.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
And I have always been skeptical that Trump would want
anything to do with releasing the Epstein files because he
had a like he may not have been as close
to Epstein as Bill Clinton was, but he you know,
was on record, you know, before Epstein's first scandal you know,
(11:47):
complimenting him, like they're photographed together. You know, he flew
on his plane, you know, a couple of times, and
so you know, it's like one of these things. And
you get into when you get into actually Trump business history,
like when you begin looking at the people who Trump
was in business, we're talking about like real estate in
(12:08):
New York. We're talking about organized crime, We're talking about
casinos and atlantics.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
You know, So it's not this is.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Not this is not like gentleman's you know, croquet. We're
talking like there's some some shady stuff going on. But
do you kind of this is not a defense of
Trump necessarily, but I mean, do you do you really
believe there are Epstein files for Trump to release. I
don't know if I even believe that to be true.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
I mean somewhere in like are you saying, do I
think like that the Department.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Of Justice compiled like a dossier.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
On yeah kind of yeah, like like like here here
is a Manila folder that has pictures of Bill Clinton
and Bill Gates doing horrible things to children, and we've
known about it for fifteen years, and here's a videotape.
I don't think there is such a thing.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I don't think that it gets to that extent, but
I mean they have. And this is when you get
into like, so let's go to like the two thousand
and six case down in Florida when Epstein initially gets arrested.
So the local police I believe it was in West
Palm Beach were handling the case, and they were the
(13:25):
ones that first received like the testimonies from like under it.
It was like the stepmother of a fourteen year old
girl came in with like the first accusation against Epstein,
and so they.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Took the witness statements.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
They started to get like, they started to investigate, they
collected other witness statements, and then as they realized kind
of the scope of this investigation, that's when the FBI
came in and the FBI took over the case. And
between the like state prosecutor and the federal prosecutor, the
(14:05):
state prosecutor's name was like Chreischer, I think, and then
the federal prosecutor was alex Acosta.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
They alex Acosta. He's just completely receded. He's not politically
active at all anymore, right.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yeah, I mean, he didn't become he didn't become the
Secretary of Labor Trumpart's administration.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
That was that wasn't a thing, but he.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
They like, they released the grand jury information. I was
actually just looking into this. They released the grand jury information,
and they completely like they didn't include all the evidence
that they had in the grand jury in the grand
jury indictment. And so when they presented evidence to the
grand jury, they came back with I think eventually he
(14:51):
pleaded guilty for three charges, but he could have been
charged with you know, upwards of like you know, double
digit offenses.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
And so they have.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Like one hundred and seventy two page grand jury document,
but it doesn't have anything in it from the evidence
that the local police collected. And I think that's what
they did something similar in twenty nineteen, because when they
arrested him in twenty nineteen, they were going to indict
him and they were presenting evidence to a grand jury
in Manhattan, but we don't know what that grand jury
(15:25):
evidence looks like. And then obviously, as everyone knows, Jeffrey
Epstein committed suicide.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, of course a.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Month later, so you know, we never got to see
any of that.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
But I hear that, and I'm still not really convinced
that anyone actually has Well, we got a backup, you
know who what is Epstein? You know, if he's just
if he's just a freak pedophile, good, he's in prison,
he died, whatever. But I mean, I think what I
(15:57):
guess you'd say the MAGA base or most normal people.
I don't know ifs doesn't have to be political, most
normal people want to know, Like, you don't have islands
and ranches and relationships with hundreds of powerful people and
celebrities and money laundering schemes, and you don't become a
(16:18):
multi millionaire from a high school teacher overnight without some
kind of backing. Like, there is a belief, I think,
a reasonable belief that he is backed by somebody, let's
just vaguely call it intelligence. So my assumption would be
that that mystery agency has all of the stuff we want,
(16:39):
not the Trump administration, Like, do you think there's something
to release? I don't think there is.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Well I think that so that yeah, and then there's
always politics being played in the FBI and the Department
of Justice because they're political appointees.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
So it's like, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
And this is you know, fair accusation to be you know,
that Trump has to make is that Okay, Well, the
last administration may have been you know, cherry pickings evidence
to make me look bad, destroying other evidence. Like I'm
sure that they have ye files on Epstein. I have
no doubt that there are files. But do those files
(17:17):
actually reveal the true nature of the operation that Epstein
was involved with. No, I don't think that the FBI
has that, And I don't think the FBI wants that,
you know, like, I don't think that they unless there
was someone who was super committed to going after.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, it's even possible that they could be implicated. I
mean I don't know.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
And that's what Yeah, to answer that question, you know,
it's the an intelligence agency that is not the FBI.
They are the ones that would have the information. And
whether that intelligence agency is domestic or whether they are foreign,
I'm sure that they have retained the evidence. Imagine if
(18:04):
you were domestic, maybe you destroy some of it. Maybe
you're like we need to pull you know, CIA, you know,
after the mk Ultra stuff comes out, and just start
burning files so that there's no nothing like no evidence.
But I mean this thing extends to foreign Like I said,
it extends into foreign intelligence services and those foreign intelligence
(18:25):
services I'm positive wouldn't destroy you know, the evidence that
they have.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
It's the equivalent of like if you found a million
dollars on the ground, you know, well, I better go
turn it into the local police station, you know what
I mean, Like, yeah, I mean maybe a good person would,
But I think international intelligence agencies probably aren't that morally oriented, right,
Like they put a lot of work into getting this material.
(18:51):
They're not going to be like, well, shucks, you know,
one of our guys is in court in Florida. We
better turn it all over, you know, like of course not.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Yeah, And so.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
That's what I'm taking you all over the place. If
this doesn't fit your flow, tell me. But I mean,
can I just ask you, like somebody's backing him, right,
he's an intelligence something.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Yeah, so we'll get yeah, we'll get into we'll get
into some of the timeline. But I think that's a
good you know, it's a good opening just to kind
of like, you know, frame the conversation. And that's a
good question to ask of like, you know, does Trump's
fb I even have anything to release. It's like, yeah,
there's something to release, but it's not going to strike
at the heart of who was backing him.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It really does seem like maybe some people had in
his administration had the intention of doing the right thing.
And yeah, they go and say, okay, let's see the
Epstein files, and it's just page after page of all
the only thing that's left after everything's been burned over
the past four years is pictures of Trump and Seine,
you know, And so they're like, ooh, we got to
(19:56):
turn we got to change course.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
And that's what you know. And I think, like I said,
there's some people who have done some really they've done
some really good work with like I said, exposing some
of Trump's business activity. What it looks like to me
is that I don't think that Donald Trump was a
client of Jeffrey Epstein. I don't think that was soliciting
(20:23):
miners from Jeffrey Epstein. I do think that they may
have had a business relationship. And that's something that many many,
you know, powerful figures. It can be said about many
powerful figures. But when you're the president of the United States,
you know, and.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
This is the goal if you're running it, if you're
running an operation like this, this is your goal. It's
to form relationships with influential people. And it's just like
you wouldn't blame necessarily Robert Downey Junior because a fan
went up and took a picture with him, and then
that fan winds up to be like a mass murderer, right.
(21:02):
I mean, it's just it's part of being famous. You
interact with people, you get photos taken. Maybe if you're
a rich New York investment guy, you do some deals.
I mean, it really is. I'm not like suggesting that
all that's in the Epstein files is Trump because Trump
did that stuff. I'm suggesting the last the last group
(21:23):
of investigators or it's like maybe we'll just leave this
stuff in here for them to deal with, you know.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
Yeah, do you think, well, that's what I think that
I don't know how you explain.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah, I think it's a kind interpretation to Trump, and
I think like it's possible.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
I'm not like like ruling that out.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
But I also think that, like I said, there are
a bunch of different people, you know, who have been
looking into this that said, Okay, well, like you know,
mar A Lago, I'm pretty sure is the you know,
the site of where one of the first like victims
was recruited from and like there there's an uh. Trump
(22:06):
also like kicked Epstein out of mar Alago at one
point for harassing, you know, an underage girl. But there's
appears to be like I think Trump knows more than
he's letting on, and I think like he realizes kind
of the kettle of fish that's involved with He knows
(22:27):
that if he really goes after the Epstein thing and
really tries to expose it, that there's gonna be a
lot of uncomfortable questions that are asked. And I think
that he's not He's not a stupid guy, and I
think he knows some of the circles that he was
running in and kind of what they were doing.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Yeah, So that's what I mean.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
It's there's a guy, Steven Snyder, who wrote a book
called Trump, Epstein and the Anglo American Connection, and he
gets into a lot of like the history of British
intelligence services and their activity in the United States and
their activity also with running sex blackmail scandals.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And they say intelligence agencies do stuff like this.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
And I can't.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
I don't believe all the way back to the guy
that Bond is based off of, William Stevenson was an
MI six agent and he came over during World War Two,
and the United States was they didn't want any part
of it. They were isolationists, you know, in nineteen thirty nine,
they didn't want to get involved in another European war.
(23:36):
So he came over to New York and started running
sex blackmail schemes to recruit support for American involvement in
World War Two. And then he moved down to Jamaica
with a bunch of interesting Ian Fleming, the guy who
wrote the James Bond series. He was in Jamaica and
that's kind of where he started talking to Stevenson and
(23:57):
all this stuff. But anyways, it's like they get it
into like the history of those services and then like
what all of these political and economic connections are, and
it's like it just reveals this web of shit that
then like Peter Peter Teel like gets involved with. And
(24:17):
Peter Teele is the you know, one of the primary
financial backers of Donald Trump and JD.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Vance and you know.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Kind of this right wing movement that has reshaped the
Republican Party dramatically. You know, the the shakers and movers
of the new Republican party, you know, looks like they
might be, you know, heavily involved with some of these
same British intelligence agents that.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
You know, we're running some of these same kind of schemes.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
So it gets tangled, it gets complicated, but yeah, we
can kind of go back to the beginning and talk
a little bit about like.
Speaker 5 (24:52):
How how let's do it?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
So yeah, he was so yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
I just first wanted to give a big shout out
to the Martyr Maide podcast, who has a five hour
series on Epstein. So that's going to frame a lot
of like the timeline some of the facts. Go listen
to that, though I will warn some of it gets
very very dark, very very heavy, because he also looks
(25:21):
into some of the other like known pedophile rings that
have been exposed and aren't accepted as fact. Yeah, he
has really good work. And then Tim Dillon listened to
a bunch.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Of his podcasts on the subject.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Whitney Webb is a huge researcher in the Epstein world.
Johnny Bedmore, who was her research assistant in his sense
kind of branched out into you know, kind of his
own thing, also has a lot of good stuff. And
then Steven Snyder, like I mentioned in that book. They
all have really good work. So I'll try and kind
of like reference where I'm getting some of this info
(25:56):
as it goes.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
But don't worry about it. Also pass it off as
your own is fine, You've done plenty of citation. Just there.
You're good, it's all yours, let's do it.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
So, Yeah, Epstein doesn't really come from like a blue
blood family in New York. Seemed to be pretty like
middle class. He went to I think it was La
Fayette High School in Brooklyn, and then he attended universities
in New York, but he dropped out before he ever
(26:27):
got his degree. Now, he did graduate high school early.
He graduated when he was sixteen.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I would love to know what sixteen year old Jeff
Epstein was like.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Do you think here's that he was pretty talented with mathematics.
I don't know anyone is calling him like a child genius,
but it does appear that he was, like, you know,
pretty proficient with kind of mathematics and you know, some
of the different scientific fields like maybe physics. But he never,
(27:02):
like I said, he never gets he never gets his
college degree.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
So what does he do after high school? He's sixteen
he's got his degree, what does he do?
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Well, that's what So he goes and so he drops
out of college and he's hired at the Dalton School. Now,
the Dalton School is a really really prestigious high school
in New York, and it is interesting that they would
hire a college drop out.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
I'm just gonna say, is it normal to hire high
school degree high school diplomas.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
For me to teach?
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Because I looked into teaching for a while, Like a
four year degree from a university with like a pretty
good GPA.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And a teaching credential, I.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Would have to spend a year, you know, because I
didn't major in education, Like I would have spent a
year of additional training to like be eligible to get hired.
But I mean, it is the nineteen seventies, so maybe
things are a little bit different, but it is strange.
And the person running the Dalton School.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Well, he must have been he must have been like
nineteen years old, right, I mean how old was he?
Speaker 5 (28:15):
He was twenty one when he.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Got twenty one high school diploma, prestigious Dalton School teaching.
What do you know? Do you remember math? Math? Okay?
Speaker 4 (28:27):
And he's like, this is a school that like today
would cost like fifty or sixty thousand dollars a year
to send your kid to.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
Okay, this is where like Wall Street.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Tycoons were sending their kids, like Ace Greenberg back in
the day was like sending his kid to to the
Dalton School.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So that's an audit. That's an oddity, and it is
interesting that a lot of intelligence recruitment does happen in college.
What call was yet? Do you know he was on
the spot?
Speaker 3 (29:05):
But no, you can look it up really quick.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, while you're doing that, I'll keep talking. So it it.
I mean, that is a thing you hear that CIA
recruiters they like to find people in college and so
to drop out of college and then start teaching at
a prestigious school. There's kind of this question of like
maybe he already had an intelligence connection all the way
back then at twenty one, or maybe not. Maybe it's
(29:29):
just a weird oddity.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Well, so, okay, the.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
So I'm seeing what the Kurant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
was one of the colleges, and then he went to
another one. He may have gone to like NYU.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I don't know, that's like one of the big the
big recruiting grounds the Kurant. That's interesting. What is that?
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Yeah, the so it's the Kurant Institute of Mathematic Sciences
at New York University. Oh okay, yeah, and then Cooper
Union was the one where he had also spent some time.
So yeah, he had gone to two different colleges and
they're both in both in New York. So he's a
(30:18):
he's made a born bread in New York. And yeah,
I mean, like that question is always an interesting one.
There's also a lot of speculation of like do gifted
kids in the gifted program. I don't know if he
was in the gifted program. I've actually heard very little about,
you know, his life in high school and like.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Life in college.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
But there are you know, these kids in high school
even who get groomed for intelligence services through the gifted program,
and so there's it gets really murky. But the first
definite connection with intelligence that you can pin him on
is the headmaster of the Dalton School. And that guy's
(31:03):
name is Donald barr M.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Do you not related to not related to another famous bar?
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Speaker 4 (32:15):
Is in fact that other famous Bar's father. So he
is William Barr's father.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Okay, who William otherwise known as Bill Barr.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Yes, Bill Barr, notorious CIA lawyer who also Big Reveal
oversaw the arrest of Jeffrey Epstein in twenty nineteen and
was the lead at the Department of.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
Justice when he committed suicide. Quote god man.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
And he was he was in the first Trump administration. Yeah,
Bill Bar Yeah, yeah, I don't we're doing what I
don't remember. I'll google.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
He was the he headed up the Department of Justice.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Oh interesting, like literally responsible for arresting Epstein and allegedly
some people have speculated murdering him.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Yeah, so that's what.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, Yet.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
The Epstein story begins and ends with the Bar family.
So there's kind of like a poetic you know, like
a poetic irony.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
It somewhere in that, Dude, it's more than poetic irony.
It's like, what aful this is? This is this is
a script of a movie, This is a Tom Clancy novel,
This isn't but a sick one.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
But yeah, and that's what.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
So Donald Barr himself, the headmaster of the a Dalton
School who was an OSS agent and so the precursor
to the CIA. So he had not only was his son,
you know, this person who spent his entire career in intelligence.
And you know, we'll get a little a little bit
(34:01):
more into into Bill Barr and kind of what he
was doing for the CIA, you know, in the wake
of you know, say Iran Contra. But Bill Barr was
like he was, you know, would go to Congress and
he would clean up the messes that the intelligence Agency's made.
And you know, it looked like Epstein was kind of
another mess that he was he was sent in to
(34:22):
clean up.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Man and hearing hearing that he was the head master,
I Meanstein, Epstein was intelligence from the jump Man.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
And so he gets hired.
Speaker 5 (34:34):
And then.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Do you know, do you know anything about Donald bar
other than that the first time you hearing about him?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Okay, loosely knew the Bill Barr connection. But no, keep going.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
You are going to love this part because while Donald
Barr was the head of it was the head of
the Dalton School, he published a book called Space Religion,
Space Relations.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
And this book was about humans and aliens enslaving underage.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Girls for sex.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
In some sort of in this like science fiction alliance.
And this is while he's the headmaster of the US.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
But Doude like, I want people. I don't want to
go off on a religious tangent, but there is a
deep religious symbolism there, because you know, one of the
readings of the Bible is that basically humanity before the
flood traded their daughters for technology to these beings, right,
(35:43):
the fallen angels they lost the angels lost it after
the daughters of men. And then you look at all
these ancient civilizations before the flood, You look at these
like megolithic stone structures, and you're like, where did they
get this from? And then there's this constant allusion to
technology coming from somewhere else being given to them in
(36:06):
exchange for the daughters of men. And then so now
there is this like obviously conspiracy theory that this continues
to this day, right, that that there are people who
kind of worship or venerate or commune with these like
evil forces, whatever they are. And so for this guy
(36:29):
to be writing a book about giving slave women, young
women to the space beings, I mean it sounds like Genesis. Man,
It's insane. It's nuts that that was a weird tangent.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
No, no, no, that I mean that lot like that exact
is something that exact like line of thinking is something
that I think about often, and you get it. It
just gets so weird when you begin to look into
so even if you're like that exchange for technology, you know,
(37:06):
there are all of these like I've recently been reading
a series. It's done by the guy who Christopher Knowles
is his name, and it's called Lucifer's Technologies, and it
talks about, you know, this exact same thing of like,
look at the technological revolution that we've experienced over the
last ninety years, you know, since nineteen forty five. And
(37:27):
he's like, you know, looking specifically at the transistor and
how the transistor has revolutionized, you know, our ability to
create you know, kind of this technology.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
And he's you.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
Know, trying to track down the paper trail for the transistor,
and it's like, you know, doesn't really seem like there's
a firm you know, series of patents leading into nineteen
forty five that would show that we were you know,
on pace to create this like when we did it
kind of you know, seems to appear, you know, out
of nowhere thing and so then he but his whole
(38:02):
thing is like he looks into like the occult. So
he's looking into like these technological companies that are producing it,
and it's all like Belle Technologies.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Is one of them.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
And it's just like the people who run Bell are like,
you know, these blue bloods, like you know, they're extremely
extremely rich, like you know, inheriting these companies and they
all get into like this occult world of like trying
to channel entities, and they're also responsible for, you know,
(38:33):
the most major technological breakthroughs that we get. So it's
like the people who are running Bell Technologies get involved
in like I don't know if you know anything about
the nine and Andrea, like Puharich and you know, all
these it's just crazy stories.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
But I mean there are words that sound vaguely familiar,
but no, I don't know. But the story you're telling
is not unique. I mean Jack Parsons is like the
most famous example of someone who communes with demons and
builds rockets, you know.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
Yeah, and the Nazi I mean, the Nazis were all
into that bull shit, and they were the most technologically
advanced you know, during World War Two, and so yeah,
I mean that thread runs through it, and it also
runs into like as we'll see kind of later in
this story, the people who are inventing you know, the
(39:18):
Internet as we know it today, the people who are
inventing artificial intelligence as we know it today, and you know,
this surveillance you know network that we have come to
like know and love and will continue to kind of
you know, evolved as we go. But you know, that's
a very it's a very interesting line of inquiry and
(39:40):
one that I think, like, you know, definitely I always
keep it in the back of my mind when looking into.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
It's stuff that I wouldn't believe if the evidence just
wasn't so obviously, you know. Yeah, and then you start
seeing it everywhere, you know, when they open some new
collider in Switzerland and they sacrifice a g to a
goat god, you know, it's like, what's going on? What
are you guys doing?
Speaker 5 (40:03):
Like why you know, yes, yeah, and that's what.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Exactly.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
Yeah, Like I said that, like that stays in the back,
That stays in the back of my mind, and.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
It's literally like our first story as modern humans, you know,
I mean, I know there's older stories than the Bible,
but I mean Book of Knock. I mean that these
are the themes that these entities from the sky give
us technology and have children with the daughters of it.
Is it's just very strange that that seems to actually
(40:35):
still be relevant today in politics and technology and intelligence. Anyway,
we'll get back. Let's get back Depstein.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
No, it's very relevant. And that's what so. So Donald
Bar writes this book nineteen seventy three. He hired Jepstein
like Jeffrey Epstein, I think, like, you know, a year
or two earlier. And then Barr leaves the school and
Epstein gets fired for poor performance. Is I think the
(41:02):
reason cited for him getting fired. So he works as
a math teacher for two years at the Dalton School.
The person there's no evidence that like Donald Barr directly
hired him, but he was leading the school when Jeffrey Epstein,
you know, so it's I don't know, I could like
to put two and two together.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
That's not very it's pretty reasonable. Sounds reasonable to me.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
And so after.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
After Epstein gets fired, he lands a job on Wall Street.
Because nothing screams I am a capable candidate.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Like a high school math teacher college.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
And failing as a high school math teacher. It's also
worth noting that he was accused of inappropriate conduct, you know,
with his female students, unsurprisingly while he was at the
at the math school, But I don't think that was
the reason cited for him being fired.
Speaker 5 (42:01):
So if anyways, he.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
Lands a job at a Wall Street firm, it's called
bear Sterns.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
And just a small just a small firm, nothing major.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
Yeah, so it's bear Stearns is it's its own rabbit hole,
and they are a notorious They're notorious for failing in
two thousand and eight for the sub subprime mortgage bubble
and engaging in all sorts of shady trading around that.
But when he gets hired, he I have a quote
(42:36):
from the from the CEO at the time talking about
Epstein's employment there. So the quote, this guy is Jimmy Kaine,
who is the CEO of bear Sterns, and he said
he was not your conventional broker, saying by IBM or
sells Xerox. Given his mathematical background, we put him in
(42:57):
our special products division where he would advise are wealthier
clients on the tax implications of their portfolios. He would
recommend certain tax advantageous transactions. He is a very smart
guy and has become a very important client for the
firm as well.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
So, yeah, highlighting on hold on.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
I have so many questions. Epstein has become an important
client for the firm he works for. Is that what
they're saying?
Speaker 1 (43:21):
They?
Speaker 4 (43:21):
So this was from an interview I think that they did.
They so Epstein gets kind of like revealed to the
world in the press really in like two thousand and two,
two thousand and three, and so I think that this
quote it comes from a two thousand and two New
York magazine article where they interview Jimmy Kane about Epstein's
(43:41):
employment back in the eighties.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Okay, would I would have enough money to be a
client of bear Stearns? That's what I do?
Speaker 4 (43:48):
This was, Yeah, So this was after after he had
left bear Stearns, And it's kind of like a retrospective,
got it?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Got it? So, I mean people who aren't like in
the financial world, which I'm not, but you know, I've
got I've got a friend who's a wealth manager, for example,
and it's it's a pretty grueling process of like doing
these exams, like a series seven and a series this,
and you get you got his MBA and then now
he's becomes a CPA, and then he's a CPA for
five years, and then he gets a new certificate and
(44:19):
now he can advise people on tax strategy. Right, the
idea of going from high school math teacher to tax
advisor to the world's wealthiest people at one of the
biggest firms in the world doesn't It doesn't ring true.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
And this is at least there's there's like this massive
you know, and you've alluded to it. There's this massive
mystery of to like what was Jeffrey Like what was
he doing?
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Like what.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
Where was he getting? Yes, where was he getting his money?
But like what like he was this person he was
a financial manager that nobody on Wall Street knew.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
You know.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
There's all of these interviews with people being like with
these famous you know, traders on Wall Street being like
when you a mass of fortune like Jeffrey Epstein has,
people know your name, people.
Speaker 5 (45:12):
Know who you work with, Like your trades are public, Like.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
You go look at the business you sold to get
your billion dollars, Like it's it's yeh, like very easy
to trace this stuff.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
And that's what there's there's no at least you should
be and that's what So.
Speaker 4 (45:26):
Like that two thousand and two article that I just references,
like the name of it is International Moneyman of Mystery,
and so it's yeah, these people, you know, kind of
these journalists in two thousand and two being like, you know,
who is this guy and where does he come from.
But back in the eighties, when he's twenty three years old,
twenty four years old, he gets a job at bear
(45:48):
Stearns and immediately gets I mean he was just under
the position of senior like senior partner at the firm,
Like he shot through the ranks immediately. And what it
looks like is that he was learning how to launder money, yeah, money,
And so that's what you know, kind of like reading
between the lines of you know, tax advantageous transactions and
(46:11):
different stuff like that, it was he was a laundering
money and he was b learning how to shovel money
into shell corporations that rich people didn't have to pay
taxes on and stuff like that. So he spends five
years at bear Stearn's seeming to kind of learn the
(46:32):
ins and outs of you know, how to how to
wander money. And this is in an era like so
this is late seventies, early eighties, there is a bunch
of dirty money flowing through Wall Street. I mean there's
still is.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Being able to launder money is not like a useless
skill like this is an in demand think not just
for like cartels, but for intelligence agencies and for government
and secret projects and blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
Yeah, that's exactly right, and that's what you know.
Speaker 4 (47:05):
So he works at bear Stearns for five years and
then he bear Stearns in this time gets embroiled in
a regulation's violation. And Epstein is like the center of
that investigation. And so even though he has like developed
this clout with the CEO and a couple of other
(47:26):
important people, you know, there's a board of directors being like,
get this, get this guy the hell out of here,
because you know, he's causing causing trouble. So I don't
have a lot of information on what that regulations violation entailed,
but basically he got in trouble and got pushed out
of bear Stearns. But that was you know, it was
no big deal for Epstein, you know, losing you know,
(47:49):
basically a senior partner position at a massive financial firm.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Yeah, and the next obviously something's up.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:59):
Then and this is where like things begin to really
like be laid bare to the intelligence connection. So I
mentioned in our first episode on the podcast of a
different name about how the Epstein story like gets very
tied into Iran contra in the eighties. And Iran contra
(48:24):
is a very murky subject to investigate, but there are
you know, some touch points that are really important to
uh to kind of mention and something that you can
kind of.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Like I've seen I was connected to Iron contras. What
you're saying, Yeah, how.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
So he goes.
Speaker 4 (48:47):
This is the the fact that I had confirmed by
our source.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Our anonymous source.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Goes on the plane.
Speaker 4 (48:58):
He gets on a plane with a British arms dealer
named Donald Lease as one does to go have a
meeting at the Pentagon. And this was mentioned in the
Martyr Made podcast.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
So this is this is the the fired tax advisor
and math teacher is going with an arms dealer to
the Pentagon.
Speaker 4 (49:25):
Going with an arms dealer to the Pentagon to have
a meeting in the era that the Iran Contra.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Is being hatched. It hasn't been found out.
Speaker 4 (49:37):
Yet I think it's like it's being organized, you know,
out of you know, how to get these arms to
Iran and how to funnel the funds from the weapons
deals to the contras in Nicaragua to fight the Sandinistas.
And so Jeffrey Ebstein has a meeting with the kind
(50:00):
of Donald Leasse. Now I tried to look this up
and can't find anything on Google shock.
Speaker 5 (50:07):
And when I.
Speaker 4 (50:08):
Spoke to our source, he was like, I tried to
bring this meeting up with Donald Lease, and I try
to bring up this Epstein Donald Lee's connection to a
prominent Epstein researcher, and that researcher wanted nothing to do
with it. So it is kind of one of the
it's one of the dirty little secrets in the Epstein
(50:29):
Epstein history that really does not get reported on at all,
and least.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
For what it's worth. I think it's like, so he's
sir Donald Lease, So.
Speaker 5 (50:40):
Can you unite it?
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Can you? Can you think of any plausible reason for
Jeffrey Epstein to be there, not related to need a
expert on laundering money or an intelligence asset or something.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
No, yeah, no I can't. So that's what I don't think.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
The Pentagon's worried about the tag retirement tax implications of
moving missiles from Iran to South America, right.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
No, And that's what he's just. It's just like, this
is what I mean is they need they need people
to launder, They need people to move the money around
in a way that does not because this is illegal.
This is what's important, you know to remember about Iran
Contra is that Congress passed a law that you cannot
(51:26):
trade with Iran, like you can't trade with the Contras.
So they have declared, like I don't know the exact
terminology that Congress.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
Uses, but they have declared these.
Speaker 4 (51:39):
Two entities, the Iranians and the Contras, as basically enemies
of the state. So like when you're trading with enemies
of the state, that's basically tantamount to treason.
Speaker 3 (51:50):
You know.
Speaker 4 (51:51):
It's not like, oh, we're going to go fund some
you know, something that no one knows about. Like Congress
is looking at this, you know, this is back you know,
I think when Congress had a little bit a little
bit more of a backbone. You know, I'm not going
to say that they were, you know, perfect by any
(52:11):
means or anything. But it was like I think a
congressional you know, investigation was much more serious back in
the late seventies early eighties than it might be today.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
Yeah, they didn't all have a blackmail on them yet.
Speaker 4 (52:27):
Yeah, exactly. And so that's like, that's what it's just
important to remote. So, like the reason that they need
someone to want in the money is because they like
Congress is looking at this, they're you know, investigating things
like this, and you can't just wire eight hundred you know,
eight million dollars to the contras from you know, Iran,
(52:48):
Like you have to move the money around, and you
have to like, you know, not set off red flags
in different countries for moving too much money, and like
it has to appear legitimate at first pass to eulatory
institutions and stuff like that. So it's like you need
someone like Jeffrey Epstein, who's been doing this same thing
at bear Stearns for five years, to come in and
be like, Okay, you know, you're we want you in
(53:11):
on this, Like we want you to be a part
of the you know, to be a part of the operation.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
For people people who are just told have no idea
what this means, which I think everyone does, but just
in case, because I feel like these are words that
get used that people don't necessarily understand. Like if there's
a bit, there's a business in my town that I'm
like convinced is laundering money for somebody because there's never
anyone there, right, and it's so nice and it's expensive
and anyway, But the point is like if I'm a
(53:39):
if I'm a cartel guy and I'm making millions and
millions of dollars, I can't spend the money really because
it's dirty money, right. I can't go buy a house
because now it's like, well, where'd you get that money?
You know, so you can clean your money by say
you own a restaurant and you could just say, oh,
(54:01):
I made one hundred thousand dollars at the restaurant this month,
but really you didn't make any money at the restaurant
this month. But now you have a legitimate income source.
You take dirty money and you make it clean. And
so that's my understanding at least. So if you're gonna
do anything in the world geopolitically, you need a way
to make the money look legitimate. So it's an important role,
(54:25):
like you need you know, you need this guy you
need they needed Epstein. It sounds like.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
Yeah, and that's what.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
The best explanation and like I'm still not super great
on explaining money laundering, but the best explanation that I
ever heard of it I ever heard of money laundering
and how it works, especially like through Wall Street institutions,
is through Catherine Austin Fitz, and she has like a
free book on her website. She worked for Dylan Reid
(54:54):
and Company and she represented the like our j Reynolds,
the tobacco company, and she blew the whistle on their
international money laundering schemes with you know, kind of some
of these same you know types of people, you know,
the cartels and different stuff like that. And it involved
(55:14):
like selling cigarettes overseas to launder that money. So it's
like when people would buy you know, the drugs, you know,
they would have, you know, all of this money that
they couldn't clean and then they would buy cigarettes with it,
and then they would sell the cigarettes. And when you
sold the cigarettes, like you would get the money. And yeah,
(55:36):
so it's like that's the way, like you need kind
of a third party to become involved in order to
make the transaction appear legitimate.
Speaker 3 (55:44):
So it's like you buy, like, you know.
Speaker 4 (55:46):
Three million dollars worth of cigarettes, and then you have
to go figure out, you know, how to.
Speaker 2 (55:51):
Distribute them, especially especially if you're a corporation or an
agency or a public government that has reporting requirements. Budgets
and things like money can't just appear, right, like a
billion dollars just can't appear. You got to make it
look real like you made it somehow legitimately.
Speaker 4 (56:09):
And especially when your funding is coming from Congress, because
you are given a budget and in theory, Congress can
audit that budget so they can see where your money
is going. And so when you are engaging with transactions
that are outside of congressional oversight, you have to be
(56:31):
you know, a bit coy with it.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
Yeah yeah, And you want you want your line item
to not say Iranian missiles co. You wanted to say,
you know, tasty sharma ink, right, So you come up
with some fake way to make it look legitimate.
Speaker 4 (56:46):
Yeah yeah, And so that's like that's what you know,
it appears like Epstein got brought in to do.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
And so then when you get into.
Speaker 4 (56:55):
Iran contra, so when the United States is going to
go sell weapons to Iran, they're going to call Israel,
because Israel, you had to say Israel, They're gonna call it.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
We're canceled already.
Speaker 4 (57:13):
But that's just okay, So that's this is just it's
just history. Yeah, sure, sure, So Iran and Iraq are
in a war, and I think that this is when
Saddam Hussein is has conquered Iraq, and both the United
States and Israel are very worried that Saddam Hussein is
(57:37):
going to become too powerful.
Speaker 2 (57:39):
And so what you're about, what this.
Speaker 4 (57:43):
Is in the early eighties, and so this is yeah,
like previous to the Goal War, but this is like
all the ship that leads up to the Goal War.
And they're like under the first Bush administration, and Bush
is George hw. Bush is the director of the CIA
at this time, for what it's worth, and so.
Speaker 3 (58:06):
They, yeah, they're worried.
Speaker 4 (58:09):
And you know, all this stuff you know today about
Israel and Iran, like that relationship is obviously terrible, and
you know, that's one of the major sources of conflict
in the Middle East today. But back in the eighties,
they were worried about Iraq, and they were worried about
Saddam Hussein and so they were willing to fund the
other side in order to have a check on Saddam
(58:33):
Hussein's power. And so it's the iraq Ian War and
they go and so anyways, Israel is on board with
this plot, and so the when you're talking about kind
of this, so we mentioned Sir Donald, Sir Douglas Lease,
(58:54):
who was at the Pentagon with Epstein. So he's a
British intelligence off Sir An arms trafficker. So we have
the British, we have the CIA, and now we are
bringing in Massad. And when you bring those entities together,
almost certainly in the early eighties, you're going to bring
(59:14):
Robert Maxwell into the conversation.
Speaker 3 (59:19):
And so we'll get to Robert Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I think everybody knows this, but just in case they don't,
Massad it's like the Israeli CIA.
Speaker 4 (59:27):
Yes, yeah, the Israeli intelligence and so yeah, we'll get
I have a whole thing on Robert Maxwell because he's crazy.
Speaker 2 (59:37):
But now these are obviously all the good guys we're
talking about CI A Massad I.
Speaker 4 (59:43):
Six, I mean they are this is this is the
this is the West in the Middle this is the
West in the Middle East.
Speaker 3 (59:53):
This is the story.
Speaker 5 (59:54):
I mean, these are the Yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
Listen, I'm patriotic, but come on, I mean, these these
guys are death and destruction incarnate.
Speaker 7 (01:00:01):
Man.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
This is like and maybe there's some good stuff they've done.
Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
But no, I mean it's never it has not worked out.
Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
It has not worked out.
Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Well, oh it always. It always backfires. I mean the
Osama bin Laden was a CIA asset, muja hadeen. He
was fighting the communists, you know.
Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
And that's what I mean is like they go and they,
like I said, we're funding Iran, Like we're you know,
selling weapons to Iran in the eighties, and look at
you know, look at the trajectory of how that has evolved,
not to mention all the other stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
That's right, So you're selling American missiles right to Iran
and then sending the money to the Sandinistas or something,
or to fight the Sanistas.
Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
To fight the Sandinistas.
Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
And I'm not one hundred percent sure on So this
is when Okay, I don't know where we were getting
the missiles from.
Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
They may have Paul Revere here.
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Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
Been American missiles or then we may have gone through
a third party to acquire the missiles. Gotcha it mood
seems to make more sense that we would have gone
through a third party, because the other guy that we
bring into the conversation. So we have Robert Maxwell, we
have Sir Douglas Lee.
Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
So who've got Epstein?
Speaker 4 (01:02:08):
And then Koshogi is a Saudi arms trafficker.
Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Is he the father of the journalists guy?
Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
He is the uncle.
Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Who and you said another name that oh.
Speaker 4 (01:02:24):
But that's yeah Joe for people who don't remember, Jamal
Kashogi is the journalist I believe he worked for the
Washington Post who was chopped up in as Sauditi embassy,
murdered and the Saudi embassy just got away with it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
The Saudis are our friends. I'm sure it was all
above board. So you mentioned another name that sounded familiar. Maxwell.
Why does that name sound familiar?
Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
So Robert Robert Maxwell is the father of Glinne Maxwell.
Maxwell is obviously known as you know, Epstein's Epstein's.
Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Counterpart, probably his handler in my opinion, but who knows.
Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
Yeah, that's so we'll get we'll get into we'll get
into a little bit of Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
He was he was a publisher. Yeah, so he I mean,
I know he was a massage agent, but he was.
Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
He was born in he was a he's a Jew
and he was born in Czechoslovakia and he came of
age right as World War Two was kicking off, and
so he needed to get out of Czechoslovakia seeing as
the Germans were on the march, and he fled to
France and joined the resistance against the Nazis and France,
(01:03:38):
and then when France gets invaded, he flees to Great
Britain and he joins the Armed Services in Great Britain
and he sees combat throughout the European theater and he.
Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
Was given the.
Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
Second most prestigious war medal in like British society.
Speaker 5 (01:03:59):
I don't know, so he was, you know, he was
in it. He was in the war.
Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
And he also admitted later to like committing a war crime.
So there was like this mayor in this kind of
like rural town, and he captured it the mayor and
told the mayor to go, you know, tell the Nazis
to surrender. And so the mayor goes off and presumably
(01:04:26):
tells them to surrender. I'm not really sure what he
told them, but the Nazis didn't end up surrendering, and
they like fired a shell from a tank at Maxwell
and it missed, and so he just shot the mayor
and then they proceeded to go, you know, obliterate the
obliterate the Nazis. But that was like, you can't just
(01:04:49):
shoot the mayor.
Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Yeah, it's frowned upon, I guess.
Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:04:53):
And that's though, right, Nazi mayor.
Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
Yeah, I mean he was the mayor of a rural
Germans So that's what it's not like, you know, I'm
not necessarily like pointing out this, like oh look at
this terrible thing, but it was just he admitted to this,
and like people were later like, yeah, that's kind of
that's kind of a war crime. Yes, it's it's not ideal,
but you know, that's World War Two and you know
he's a fighting for the he's fighting, you know, for
(01:05:19):
the British, and they're trying to liberate, you know, liberate
in Germany. So it's like I kind of see kind
of see, yeah, a little bit of where.
Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
He's coming from.
Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
But he ends up so he becomes like he's he
speaks like six or seven different languages and so he
and he speak like German is one of them.
Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
And so the.
Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
British military, British intelligence recruit him to participate in Nazi interrogations,
and so he is interrogating Nazis, and then as the
World War Two pivots to the Cold War, he becomes
involved in like interrogating some of their Soviet prisoners because
he speaks Russian, being from Czechoslovakia, you know, and the
(01:06:00):
kind of this region of the Soviet Union, and so
he becomes pretty indispensable to British intelligence, like quite early on.
Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
And he maintains all of.
Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
These connections to Eastern Europe because that's where he's from.
And World War two, obviously Europe is completely devastated and
completely broken, but like you still have to trade, you know,
like you still have to get goods back and forth.
And so he was very adept at using his connections
(01:06:35):
in Eastern Europe to move resources around from you know,
Britain like to Eastern Europe and back and forth and
stuff like that. So he had set up kind of
this import export business that was very profitable. And one
of the things that he does early on, you know,
kind of nineteen forty seven, somewhere in there, there is
(01:06:58):
the Arab Israeli Warbviously, he is a Jew. He supports
the Zionist movement to really like to you know, he
supports the creation of the state of Israel, and Israel
immediately gets embroiled in a war with its neighbors because
they just created Israel in the middle of the air
of world.
Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
Did you have a question?
Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
No, keep going, so.
Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
He as a supporter of this project.
Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Hold on a second though, by created Israel in the
middle of the Arab world, do you mean they rightfully
re obtained their homeland, don't you Isn't that what you mean?
We're not trying to get canceled on our first episode here,
come on.
Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
I mean, that's that's definitely one. Yeah, that's definitely one perspective.
And that I just mean that, like as a political entity,
Israel was just created.
Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
You know, that is a fact. That is a factual statement.
Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
And so they go and so they like I said,
when you you know, they move all these people down
here and then they're surrounded by enemies. You know, they're
in Palestine. We know how that's going. We know how
that's gone. Egypt is just to the south. They have
you know, Iraq, and you know they have the old
Ottoman Empire like right over there. So it's like they're
(01:08:20):
in enemy's territory.
Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
And this would be like me opening a young conservative
club in the middle of West Hollywood. It's it's not
a good strategy.
Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
And so they go and like that.
Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
Basically, Maxwell helps Israel obtain weapons from Czechoslovakia that are
critical to them surviving the first war that Israel was
ever in. So he immediately forges a relationship with the
State of Israel and will remain involved with Israel throughout
(01:08:58):
his career. But he is based in Britain, and like
I said, he was indispensable to British intelligence and British
the British elite set him up with a scientific publishing company,
and this was important because they gave him the exclusive
(01:09:19):
rights to translate Soviet technical papers that were coming out.
And that's important because the Soviets were working on their
nuclear program throughout the late forties. They achieve the nuclear bomb,
you know, maybe late forties, early fifties, something like that,
and so the West really needs to know anything they
(01:09:39):
can about Soviet science and so he you know, cultivates
contacts in Eastern Europe to get him, you know, these
various scientific papers. He's also reported to maybe have been
a KGB agent. But he's one of these people that
just fluidly moves through intelligence agencies. So he just fluidly
(01:10:01):
moves through British intelligence, he fluidly moves through Massade. He's
you know, connected to the KGB's connected to the CIA.
He's just one of those guys where it's like he's
you know, he's just a super spy.
Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
He seems like he's just one of these people who
has outsize impact wherever he is, because I mean he
he's meandering intelligence agencies all over the world. But even
if you just look at his career in scientific publishing,
I mean he's had more impact on the scientific publishing
arena than probably anybody. I mean, he completely transformed. He
(01:10:34):
completely transformed the way peer review works. I mean, this
is an issue near and dear to my heart being
in academia. But and that that was just like something
he did on a Tuesday afternoon, you know, because on
Thursday he had to fly to the Kremlin. Like it's
really incredible.
Speaker 5 (01:10:48):
Yeah, that's not in a good way.
Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
I'm not admiring him. It's just it's it's an observation.
Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
No, it's amazing. I mean it's like one of these people.
Speaker 4 (01:10:56):
It's like, like I said, it's the guy who is
William Stevenson, the guy who's you know, Bond is based off.
It's a similar you know, he's one of these similar
figures where it's like anywhere he goes, there's just the
craziest He's involved in the craziest you know stories, like
the craziest scandals that there are.
Speaker 5 (01:11:15):
And so, yes, what you were.
Speaker 4 (01:11:16):
Saying about this scientific publishing is really important because it's
like he commercializes scientific publishing as well, and so he
also like begets and this is in a time where
scientific research is.
Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
Being like way more funded by the government than it
ever has.
Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
I mean, like we're in the arms we're in the
nuclear arms race where and you know, governments are pumping
money into scientific funding. And so you know, he is
expanding the journalist, you know, for you know, these different
fields to you know, to publish their work and different
stuff like that. And so yes, the way that the
(01:11:56):
like the reason the scientific publishing industry is the way
that it is today is I mean, I would I
would say that it's in large in large part two
to Maxwell. And then that company was Pergamon Press, and like.
Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
I said, he commanded this. He was basically handed.
Speaker 4 (01:12:15):
The company by the British like he bought it, but
he like he got the loan to buy it from
this guy named like Sir John Hambrough, and Sir John
Hambrough had run you know, one part of the press
before you know it joined and that sold. So like
I said, he's kind of he's really like making, you know,
(01:12:38):
building his empire there in the fifties in Britain.
Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
He actually he came up with the most incredible way
to make a fortune in scientific publisher I mean, listen,
this isn't super relevant to Epstein, but it is relevant
to the thinking of this guy, Robert Maxwell. And then
and then maybe we'll do like a ten minute wrap
up because Kenningly, this is gonna have to be like
a three part series. I feel like, if you're up
for it, yeah, I think it is so so Maxwell,
(01:13:04):
I mean, this is so smart. There weren't that many
scientific journals, and they had editorial boards who were like
the best of the best scientists in that field, right,
and they would have a pretty broad scope, like they
would they would have a pretty broad audience. It wouldn't
be like the Cincinnati Journal of Lake Michigan Fish. You know.
(01:13:26):
It was like it was like Marine Biology Monthly. You know,
it's like wait, it was broader. And he realizes, like, okay, Harvard,
all the big schools, they can't not have access to
a scientific journal like their students expect that if they
come to Harvard they can read any research paper that's
(01:13:47):
been published anywhere. Right, And he goes, I'll just start
two thousand journals. Yeah, and Harvard will subscribe to every
single one of them. Right, But this is completely up.
It's the scientific publishing community because there's not enough editors.
And so he comes up with this great idea peer review.
(01:14:07):
He comes up with peer review. Now there's peer review before,
but it was the editor of the journal and they're
paid and it's their job. It's like they have made
a career out of peer review. He flips us on
its head and says, no, no, no, the science scientist, you
need a volunteer to review the work of your peers.
And so he just this becomes like a huge money
(01:14:30):
making thing for him and others. But it's just it's
like it's genius. It's horrible. It's immoral. You know, it's terrible,
right because it completely like screws up the way scientific
publication works. But I'm sure he just created a huge
fortune for himself.
Speaker 3 (01:14:47):
It's a massive fortune.
Speaker 4 (01:14:48):
And I mean he was able to Like the other
thing about like and the reason that I mentioned government
funding is like he's not paying the writer. So you're
a publisher who doesn't even have to pay the Like
the writer is almost like paying. It's like paying you
like to publish their work, you know, because it's like
any other publishing industry. It's like you have to like
(01:15:10):
work out you know, a royalties contract, or you have
to work out like an advance for the author.
Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
He didn't have to do any of that.
Speaker 4 (01:15:16):
Someone else is paying for the research and he's the
only one who can publish it.
Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
It's literally just a money making machine. I mean, you
start ten thousand journals, your customers are forced to buy them,
and you have no overhead. Everything is voluntary. It's really
it's like a genius. But again it's messed up.
Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
And that's what it's say. I mean, he.
Speaker 4 (01:15:41):
And he uses that and he buys like newspapers, so
I think he bought like the Mirror group in britain'st.
Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
The Daily Mirror, or he ran the Daily Mirror.
Speaker 4 (01:15:52):
Yeah, yeah, he ran the Daily Mirror. And he had
like other newspapers in different countries, and this was involved
in his intelligence work, and so like he would use
journalists you know, out in the field to just like
pick up you know, oh kind of like you know,
read the beat and then report back to him. And
then he could report that to other members of intelligence
(01:16:15):
and you know, keep them up to date. And so
we'll kind of like we can kind of wrap up.
Speaker 5 (01:16:22):
With with.
Speaker 4 (01:16:25):
Maxwell's demise, so we'll get you know, kind of into
like how exactly he he.
Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
Falls from grace. But so he's you know, working with.
Speaker 4 (01:16:37):
Yeah, and so he, like I said, had been like
working very closely with the Masade, and he was involved
in Iran Contra and the reason that he kind of
gets exposed.
Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
For a lot of this.
Speaker 4 (01:16:52):
So the other other important things that he did in
the eighties was he was helping Israel develop their nuclear
program and he.
Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
You agend alleged nuclear program, the alleged nuclear nuclear.
Speaker 4 (01:17:05):
Program, and so he was involved in a bunch of
different schemes to get Israel.
Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
Parts.
Speaker 4 (01:17:16):
And so the Mesade at one point ran in operation
to infiltrate an American aeronautics company and the American aeronautics company,
like ended up smuggling out, you know, hundreds of like
nuclear hardware parts out to the US from the United States.
Speaker 5 (01:17:39):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:17:40):
And the other one was there was a an Israeli
rogue nuclear scientist. Okay, before that, he had helped recruit
over one hundred Soviet Jewish scientists from the Soviet Union
to join the Israeli nuclear team like in Israel. And
(01:18:01):
so he gets these Jews out of the Soviet Union
and he brings them to Israel. And this was like
a deal that he struck with the KGB. Like he
didn't like, go behind in your back and do this.
He said, I know that you don't want these Jewish
scientists working for you, like, will take them. And so
he relocates, helps relocate them. And then the other thing
(01:18:24):
he does is he there is an Israeli rogue nuclear
scientists that blows the whistle on the Israeli nuclear program
and flees the country. He ends up tipping off the
masade and organizing a honey trap for this Israeli nuclear
scientist in Rome, and they kidnapped the guy and bring
(01:18:45):
him back to Israel. And I don't know really what
happens to him. I assume that he gets put on
trial and convicted. Yeah, this is the type of thing
that Maxwell was doing for the Israeli state. I mean
he was deeply, deeply involved and helped them develop their
nuclear program. And he also So the final like scandal
(01:19:07):
that I'll kind of get into is like this this
what's called the promised Promised software scandal. And so he
the United States government steals a piece of software that
had been developed by a company called Inslaw, and Inslall
had developed this software for prosecutors across the United States
(01:19:29):
to have access to a database so when someone gets
arrested in New York, they can easily look up their
criminal history in California or wherever. Because before this you
had to do like make phone calls and write levers
and do whatever that. This was like pre pre Internet era,
So it was a revolutionary piece of software.
Speaker 3 (01:19:50):
Now, the CIA steals it.
Speaker 4 (01:19:51):
From the company, and Inslall ends up suing the CIA,
and the court's rule in Inslaw's favor that like, yeah,
the CIA did steal this, and the reason they stole
it is because they recognized it's potential for.
Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
Intelligence gathering.
Speaker 4 (01:20:06):
And so what they do is the CIA takes it,
and they also distribute it to Masad. And the CIA
puts a backdoor into the software that allows them to
monitor activity without the user knowing that they're observing it.
And the Masade does the same thing, is they put
(01:20:27):
a backdoor into the software that allows them to collect
information without the user of the software being aware of it.
And Robert Maxwell starts a computer company, you know, just
kind of like out of nowhere, and then begins to
market this software for the Massad to various countries, including
(01:20:47):
the United States.
Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
And.
Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
Ally stop, I know, stop it so software to Oh gosh,
I lost you, David. I'm not going to do this
the stereotypical podcast thing and make a comment about how
the Internet went out right when we started talking about
the Masade stealing data from the US. But oh boy,
(01:21:19):
I think David's down for the count I hope he
didn't get nineteen eighty Ford, you know, I hope he didn't.
Hope he did it something to just come through his
window and take him out. I guess I'll wrap up. Well,
if you poss back in, we'll keep going. Guys, thank
you for listening to bad Press. I think it's safe
(01:21:41):
to say that there's a lot of bad press to
go around. Oh, David's coming back. I just started signing off.
I was like, all right, let's wrap up. I said,
I'm not going to do the stereotypical thing and say like, oh,
they're trying to shut us down for talking about this.
Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
You never know, you never know. No, I think my
my internet has been kind of spotty today.
Speaker 3 (01:22:05):
It's been weird.
Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
Okay, that is a better explanation. I'll give you that. Okay,
So they start a spying on the US.
Speaker 4 (01:22:12):
Yes, and so anyways, that was Maxwell was involved with that.
And then we wrap up with this guy named Ari
Ben Minosh, and Ari Ben Minosh was somehow got arrested
in the United States and he was being tried for
sending cargo planes to the Iranian government as a private citizen.
(01:22:36):
And his defense was not that he didn't try and
sell the Iranian government cargo planes, but that he didn't
do it as a private citizen. He did it as
an agent of the Israeli governments. And so he is
acquitted because the jury finds, yeah, that's actually pretty a
pretty reasonable explanation, and he provides evidence that he worked
(01:22:57):
for you know, Israel's like you were for the Masaud
and all.
Speaker 3 (01:23:01):
Of this stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:23:04):
And so afterwards, after he gets acquitted, he's pissed at
Israel because they tried to burn him, because they didn't,
you know, come to his defense. He had to mount,
you know, his own defense for this. So he goes
to the British press and he starts telling these stories
about Robert Maxwell, all these stories about him helping them
kidnap the rogue Israeli scientists and how he was helping
(01:23:26):
them work on the promised software scandal and all of
these stories that we just told. He's telling the British
press this, and the British press is like, I don't
want anything to do with that, because Robert Maxwell will
come after you. And legendary investigative journalist Seymour Hirsch independently
corroborates Ari Ben Minosha's story and publishes a book about
(01:23:48):
it and.
Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
Published former legendary Now he's a disgraced, yes publish journalist. Sorry, sorry,
sorry for the bad jokes. Okay, So he he intervenes,
He backs it up.
Speaker 3 (01:24:02):
Yeah, he backs it up.
Speaker 4 (01:24:04):
And then Maxwell takes Hirsh to court for libel and
then and then publishes all of this slander about him
in his newspapers, and so Hirsh counter sues.
Speaker 5 (01:24:18):
Maxwell for libel and wins.
Speaker 4 (01:24:21):
So Hirsh wins the case and Maxwell has to pay
him and he has to cover all of his legal
fees and all.
Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
Of these things.
Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
Man. Wow.
Speaker 4 (01:24:30):
And so now it has been exposed in the British
press that Maxwell has been working for the Masade, and
so Maxwell is freaking out. A lot more attention is
being paid to Maxwell by Parliament. And the other thing
that Maxwell has been doing is he has been skimming
money off of his company's pension funds to fund his
(01:24:51):
extravagant lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (01:24:53):
So he's, you know.
Speaker 4 (01:24:55):
Maybe a billion dollars in debt, maybe more, you know,
an absurd amount of debt. And so he goes to
the Massade and he's like, you have to help me.
Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
Can I ask you a question? Yes, Glaine is he's
probably an adult by this point, right, or she's around
she's growing up.
Speaker 3 (01:25:12):
Around, yes, and so and we'll get it.
Speaker 2 (01:25:16):
Yeah, sorry, I'm just curious.
Speaker 3 (01:25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:25:18):
And that he goes and he asked the Massade. He goes,
please help me, Please help me. They said it's too late,
like it's all public, like we can't do anything.
Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
So I'm sure they set him up with the nice
villa in Santorini, right, Like they didn't take any actions,
you know, they didn't.
Speaker 4 (01:25:35):
Well, so he goes on his yacht named the Lady Glaine.
While he was on his yacht, he is surrounded by
Masad bodyguards. So they say that you know, okay, we'll
provide you with some protection. And in the middle of
the night one night, he mysteriously falls off of his boat.
Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
Oh that's unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (01:25:59):
So I think it's officially ruled a suicide.
Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
What a strange coincidence.
Speaker 4 (01:26:05):
And it's like it could have been the Massad, it
could have been any number of intelligence agents. It looks
like a collective decision from the world's intelligence agencies that
this guy knows too much and needs needs to die.
But yeah, even though the Massad didn't help him, they
(01:26:27):
State of Israel brought his body to Jerusalem and buried
him on the Mount of Olives. And the Prime Minister
at that time, I have a quote, let me find it.
Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
This is this is a great point. This isn't an
important point?
Speaker 5 (01:26:41):
Actually, yeah, so they bring who gets.
Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
Buried at the Mount of Olives. Every Joshmo, not every Joshmo.
Speaker 4 (01:26:48):
This is the most sacred burial ground in Israel. And
so the Prime Minister at the time, who was also
involved in men any of these Maxwell schemes, had a
very close relationship with Maxwell, like dating back to the sixties.
But he said, Robert Maxwell has done more for Israel
(01:27:08):
than than can today be said. So just confirming that
that Maxwell had a long and stored career, and that's what,
you know what kind of we'll kind of ended.
Speaker 5 (01:27:19):
There with the point that.
Speaker 3 (01:27:23):
Maxwell's kids take.
Speaker 4 (01:27:25):
Over the Maxwell operation, So it's not like everything just
kind of like disappears.
Speaker 3 (01:27:32):
He has eight children.
Speaker 4 (01:27:35):
I don't know if all of them were living at
the time that he died, but he has at least
you know, six Maxwell's running around and all of them
kind of pick up on some of the different threads
of his business empire.
Speaker 2 (01:27:49):
Wow. Yeah, Well, fortunately none of his kids went on
to do anything nefarious.
Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
Well, I mean it was Gland was his favorite.
Speaker 5 (01:28:00):
After her.
Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
I wonder if she was the oldest.
Speaker 5 (01:28:03):
You know, she's the youngest. Oh really the youngest daughter
at least?
Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
Yeah, Oh interesting, hmm. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we've talked
for almost two hours and we've almost gone into the
actual story of Ebstein. But this is fascinating. This is
the stuff you don't hear on the news, you know,
like the actual interesting shit, which would should make you suspicious.
(01:28:30):
I think it's everyone just wants it to be a
political football. Everybody wants it to be Epstein's a pervert,
and yeah, those are obviously true, but it goes much
deeper than that, which is why I think everybody's so
frustrated with this story. So they are trying desperately to
get it out of the headlines, and they they is
just a collective they. I'm not blaming anyone in particular,
(01:28:52):
but nobody wants to talk about this anymore, which is
why we're talking about it, and we'll keep talking about
it for at least a couple more episodes. I suspect.
Speaker 4 (01:29:01):
Yeah, there's like I said, it's an octopus. There are
there are tentacles, and you know, there's a couple of
different angles that you can kind of you know, take
with it. But just getting like you know, like I said,
of like who is Robert Maxwell? You know, who is
Donald Barr? Who is like Bill Barr? You know, with
(01:29:21):
like these characters that get super involved in this story.
It's like, you know, you need that background and you
need that historical context for color, you know, because we
forget like this is one of the things about like
history that like draws me to it is like we
just forget so easily about who some of.
Speaker 3 (01:29:39):
These you know, people are and what their history is.
Speaker 4 (01:29:42):
Like we're talking about the eighties, Like I, you know,
I wasn't alive during the eighties, so it's like.
Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
Oh, ouch, just stuck a stak, but it I wasn't
alive in the late nineteen hundreds. It's basically, but.
Speaker 3 (01:30:01):
There they go, and.
Speaker 4 (01:30:02):
Like like that's why I love researching the eighties because
it's like these like Bill Barr is still around and
it's like if I didn't go, like, you know, if
I didn't go like, well, who is Bill Barr? You know,
then you wouldn't you know, you wouldn't know that the
guy who arrested Epstein, you know, you wouldn't know that
his dad was the first one to give him the
job at the math school and wrote this super creepy book.
Speaker 3 (01:30:25):
About you know, alien pedophilia or whatever. You know.
Speaker 4 (01:30:29):
So it's just like I said, it's important to get
some of that background in it, like a lot of
the I've seen a lot of things of like, you know,
everyone wants to make it about the modern story. Well,
it's like the way that you know that the story
is real and the way that you know the operation
is confirmed is like you go back and you look
at all of these touch points with the intelligence community,
(01:30:50):
and you look at like these major events in US history,
like the Iran Contra affair, and you look at you know,
the major events and Israel's history, and it's like, okay,
like now you can begin to get a better picture
of you know, what was happening.
Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
But well, as long as you don't start trying to
say that Israel isn't our greatest ally, I'll be okay.
Speaker 3 (01:31:11):
That's just a fact.
Speaker 2 (01:31:13):
It's just a fact that, Uh, listen, you know, the
world is complicated. There's good and evil in every person.
These nations aren't bad necessarily, right people, groups of people
aren't bad. This is just a complicated world. And it's
I'm gonna end with a quote if I may, that
(01:31:35):
I think is apropos. It's a soljier Nitsen quote. The
battle between good and evil runs through the heart of
every Man, I think there is such a thing as
absolute good and absolute evil. But I think part of
being a human is that you kind of have to
deal with that push and pull and little decisions compound.
(01:31:56):
You know, you you live through World War Two, and
it's totally rational and reasonable to want to do whatever
it takes to protect your people, right, I'm talking about
Maxwell and so kidnapping nuclear scientists and bringing them back
to Israel to face trial and killing a mayor and
(01:32:17):
completely destroying scientific publishing to make money to fund your
whatever and X y Z, And it makes sense, you
can justify it. But the stuff compounds. Man, Little things
done with possibly good intentions that are wrong should adds up.
And I think it's I think it's been playing out
for thousands of years.
Speaker 4 (01:32:39):
And yeah, so I think that point that you made about,
you know, is the CIA doesn't represent, you know, the
average American person. It's like the massade doesn't necessarily you know,
it doesn't represent the average Israeli person. It's like, these
are intelligence communities and it is a dirty, dirty game.
Speaker 2 (01:33:03):
And I guarantee you there's plenty of people in both
those organizations who feel like they're doing good and for
good reasons like they want to protect their countrymen and
blah blah blah blah blah. But at the end of
the day, man, humans can rationalize crazy stuff, and narrative
is everything. Like if you believe you're the good guys, well,
you know, you got to crack a few eggs to
(01:33:23):
make it Omelet you know what I mean. So it's
just we can actually people who are ideologically convicted do
the worst shit, you know, so so really, this intrinsic
belief that you are good, I think can lead you
to really dark places, which I think that's another reason
(01:33:44):
why the you know, I'll just rip the band aid
off so people start learning about me. I think that's
one of the good things about the Christian ideal is
you kind of admit, like, I'm not necessarily good. I
try to be good, that should struggle and ask for
forgiveness and try to do better. But as soon as
you convince yourself that you're good and they're bad, dude,
(01:34:05):
you'll do some wicked stuff. That's what I think, Elise.
So anyway, man, how do you how do we bring
I think we're good. We're done right. Let's give us
a sneak peek of Part two, What are we going
to talk about next time?
Speaker 4 (01:34:17):
So part two we are going to get into like
Epstein's actual kind of operation. So we're going to look
at I mentioned like two thousand and two. Two thousand
and three is when he really becomes revealed to the
world through the press, So we're gonna kind of look
at it through that lens of Okay, so we've.
Speaker 3 (01:34:36):
Made it through the eighties.
Speaker 4 (01:34:37):
Really, Epstein is kind of like he's in the Iran
Contra narrative, but it's not like he's like a major
power player. It's just like the Iran country thing is
where he meets Robert Maxwell and he meets Gilain Maxwell
and so then.
Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
Bring bring your daughter to workday apparently.
Speaker 3 (01:34:59):
Yeah, yeah uh.
Speaker 4 (01:35:02):
And so then we're gonna look more into what Epstein
and Glaine we're up to, and we're going to look
at you know, kind of you know, maybe his arrest
in two thousand and six and then how that court
case is you know, a sham and all that. Then
we're really going to try and get into kind of
(01:35:24):
the scientific angle of Epstein's work.
Speaker 2 (01:35:28):
Transhumanism.
Speaker 4 (01:35:31):
Yeah, we're going to get into like Leslie Wexner, who
was funding Epstein and who Wexner was. So yeah, we'll
actually we'll pick up with that on who Leslie Wexner is,
because Wexner is tied to mac cell as well.
Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
And we'll we'll learn that if you've ever bought your
girlfriend of Victoria's secret bra, you've you've funded Epstein contributed.
Speaker 3 (01:35:56):
We're all implicated.
Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
We all got a little piece of the blood on
our hands. Unfortunately, isn't that the truth? That's that's that's
uh probably runs a little deeper than most of us
care to admit. All Right, everybody, thanks for listening, Thank
you for tuning in to this episode of Bad Press.
Go ahead and check out our website. Actually, let me
(01:36:18):
just do a quick two minute thing forgive me. So
David and I we've we've got a substack hemispheric Press
dot substack dot com, hemispheric Press. Terrible name, so sorry
I came up with it. I apologize, and uh so
it's too late now we've already registered everything said that.
We we are a publishing company. So we published so
(01:36:41):
far just my book, God's I View, but we're also
publishing other books for other people, for our for our authors,
and we would love to publish your book. But if
you don't have a book to write, you can check
out our substack and read about some of this stuff,
like this stuff David's talking about right now on Hemispheric
Press dot substack dot com. I'll put a link in
(01:37:02):
all the show and episode descriptions. David, I'll talk to
you next week.
Speaker 3 (01:37:08):
Sounds good man. I appreciate it.
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