Jacob, Esau and the Birthright - The Dig

We continue to dig through Genesis and try to pull out the contextual clues that paint the picture of the story being told! So much to dig up!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, everybody, It's me Cinderella Acts. You are listening to
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Speaker 4 (01:17):
Toyota than Toyota than Toyota thon is on.

Speaker 5 (01:21):
Oh what fun it is to drive a new Toyota today.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
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Make your holiday wishes come true with a new Camra
wrap for Tacoma and more. All right, let's sing it
together this time.

Speaker 6 (01:35):
Toyota than Toyota, than Toyota than.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Dealer inventory may vary. Toyota than ends January fifth. See
your participating dealer for details. Toyota, Let's go places. Dirty
hands means clean theology. Can you dig it? What is
going on? All my local guys and gals and long

(01:59):
distance pals? We're back?

Speaker 7 (02:04):
Who has a good one?

Speaker 3 (02:07):
All three ep us?

Speaker 7 (02:10):
I know that never happens. I feel like we've been
so busy lately that the three of us have a
hard time getting together. But you know what, show must
go on. But we keep doing what we can do
to make some good content.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
It's just good conversations and road time. Man.

Speaker 7 (02:29):
Well, it always is that, for sure, and we all
need that. We all need that. But you know what
releases tomorrow? I don't even know if I told you
justin mm hm, I actually did the sermon at church
a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yes, you told me, Okay, yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:47):
I'm gonna put that out. It's gonna release that church
or on the church feed on Sunday. He's gonna put
it out. But I put it out as the episode
for tomorrow, which we'll I'll cut this part out because
it really doesn't make sense because this will be you know,
after that. But that goes out tomorrow, so we'll see

(03:07):
how bad that flops. But what we always say, we
hope are one person. We hope for right you can
reach one. It's worth it.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
What was the message?

Speaker 7 (03:22):
The message is about how you've seen God work in
your life. Because a lot of people think they have.
You know, you have your testimony, right. So some people
say they've been a Christian their whole life. They haven't
had struggles, they haven't had this, they haven't had that, whatever.
But in the end, God's worked in your life one
way or another. And I'm really paraphrasing here, but God's

(03:44):
worked in your life one way or another. And however
He's worked in your life, whatever the toughest thing you've
been through in your life is, whether it's the loss
of a loved one, whether it's the you know, you
didn't have the ability to put food on your table
for your family, whether it's you know, you were addicted
to something, or you were you know, just a downright

(04:06):
terrible person like I was when I was younger, Like,
how did God help you through that? And then you
take it a step further, and God worked us through
all that. All of us are sitting here with different
things that we've been through in our lives, and there's
somebody out there going through that exact thing that we
went through before. There's somebody else out there that's suffering

(04:27):
with the same things You've suffered with in the past
that God's helped you through. And the whole point is
God uses us not because not because he has to,
but because he allows us to, right, He allows us
to be part of that story. So I guess kind
of the way to summon up the best is, you know,

(04:48):
it's the most amazing gift that we've ever had, is
God said in Jesus, you know, to save us. But
the second most amazing thing is that he allows you
to be part of someone's salvation story. And it's through
your witness through your testimony that you have and the
things that God's helped you through in your life, and
you can help that next person through it. And that's
the whole point. It's not just God's not just gonna

(05:09):
wave a magic Wand while we said idle, God uses us,
So we got to stand, We got to step up
and get out there and help those people. You know,
share your testimony.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Yeah, man, that's awesome. Yeah, because a lot of people
got the mindset of you know, what can I do?
You know I can't make a difference, And.

Speaker 7 (05:29):
Oh you can. And I'll tell you that it's tough,
and it's a very hard thing. I get. I'll be
very honest and I was very honest during that sermon.
I was very vulnerable. But that's what telling your testimony
is is you're telling something that was hard for you,
something that was difficult, something that you are not proud of.

(05:50):
And people a lot of times will look at people
who go to church and they'll be like, oh, they're
this perfect Christian. They got it figured out. That is
not true. Not a single one of us do, not
a single one. I just haven't figured out. We strew
We still screw up we still struggle, we still go
through these things. But that's the whole point, right, that's
the whole point, is that we're always growing, we're always

(06:12):
moving forward. But how can we help our fellow man?
How can we help the church grow? And how can
we reach out and strengthen the people who are already believers?
If you look through the New Testament, Paul all the
time is not just going to make new believers. He's
going he's strengthening the churches that are already there. I'll
let you listen in and see what you think. Just
say something nice and keep your thoughts to yourself.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
Ah.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
I always have nice things to say about you, Steve.

Speaker 8 (06:43):
Like I said, say something, he looks really good without
any hair on top of his head.

Speaker 7 (06:51):
I got I'm cut real short today and cut me
a couple of days ago. But anyway, Also the things
on the documentary stuff are floating forward. We're going in
the right direction. We have a plan, we have a focus.
We're working towards a couple of things that it's gonna
be something totally different that no one's It's it's not

(07:14):
going to be your run of the mill creation evolution documentary.
It's gonna be something that can capture people, that that
even if you don't believe that, it could be entertaining.
So at least we can give you a taste, maybe
playing a seed to somebody who wouldn't watch just one
of these regular and I hate to say regular, but
these creation evolution documentaries that are so great information but

(07:36):
so dry. And if you're a believer, yeah, you can
listen to it and say it's awesome. I like that information.
But if you're not, you're gonna be like whatever. So
we're trying to bring it in a different light, and
it's really gonna be cool. Get excited for that.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
We're continuing our genesis. And when I got to looking
at the chapters we don't care today, I kind of
perked up a little bit.

Speaker 7 (07:58):
Guys, you may have something to do with that sign
over Ben's right shoulder.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
I don't know. Yeah, man, And this book I found
I was really cool, handsome author and he's so smart too.
I think I've heard the audio Epica be song.

Speaker 7 (08:19):
Well you guys ready to jump in? Ben? I know
you're gonna say, yes, let's go.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
Ben has been ready. He's been That's why he's been
so quiet. He's been taking all these times and stuff.
Just need to let to be it ready to go.

Speaker 8 (08:32):
Yep, I've been ready my whole.

Speaker 7 (08:33):
Lot, definitely been your whole life.

Speaker 8 (08:38):
That's exactly all right, all right.

Speaker 7 (08:41):
Let me clear my throat. No no, no, no no no
no no sorry, yeah, fo.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
All right.

Speaker 7 (08:55):
Chapter twenty four. Abraham was now a very old man,
and the Lord had blessed him in every way. One day,
Abraham said to his oldest servant, the man in charge
of his household, take an oath, by putting your hand
under my thigh, swear by the Lord, the God of
Heaven and Earth, that you will not allow my son
to marry one of these local Canaanite women. Go instead
to my homeland, to my relatives, and find a wife

(09:17):
for my son Isaac. The servant said, but what if
I can't find a young woman who is willing to
travel so far from home? Should I then take Isaac
there to live among your relatives in the land where
you came from. No, Abraham responded, be careful never to
take my son there, for the Lord, God of Heaven,
who took me from my father's house my native land,

(09:39):
solemnly promised to give this land to my descendants. He
will send his angel ahead of you, and he will
see it that you find a wife there for my son.
If she is unwilling to come back with you, then
you are free from this oath of mine. But under
no circumstance are you allowed to take my son there.
So the servant took an oath by putting his hand
under the thigh of his master, a Abraham, and swore

(10:01):
to Abraham's instructions. Then he loaded ten of Abraham's camels
with all kinds of expensive gifts from his master and
traveled to distant Aram Naharai. There he went to a
town where Abraham's brother Neahor had settled. He made the
camel's kneel beside the well outside of town. It was
evening and the women were coming out to draw water. Oh,

(10:23):
Lord God of my master Abraham, he prayed, please give
me success today and show unfailing love to my master Abraham.
See I am standing here beside this spring, and the
women of the town are coming out to draw water.
This is my request. I will ask one of them
please give me a drink from your jug. If she
says yes, have a drink, and I will draw waters

(10:46):
for your camels too. Let her be the one you
have selected as Isaac's wife. This is how I will
know that you have shown unfailing love to my master.
Before he had finished praying, he saw a young woman
named Rebecca coming out with her water jug on her shoulder.
She was the daughter of Bethule, who was the son

(11:06):
of Abraham's brother Nahor and his wife Milka. Rebecca was
very beautiful and old enough to be married, but she
was still a virgin. She went down to the spring,
filled her jug and came up again. Running over her,
the servant said, please give me a little drink.

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Speaker 7 (11:36):
Water from your jug. Yes, my lord, she answered, have
a drink, and she quickly lowered her jug from her
shoulder and gave him a drink. When she had given
him a drink, she said, I will draw water for
your camels too, until they have had enough to drink.
So she quickly emptied her jug into the watering trough
and ran back to the well to draw water for
all his camels. The servant watched her in silence, wondering

(11:59):
whether or not the Lord had given him success in
his mission. Then, at last, when the camels had finished drinking,
he took out a gold ring for her nose and
two large gold bracelets for her wrist. Whose daughter are you,
he asked, Please tell me would your father have any
room to put us up for the night. I am
the daughter of Bethuel, she replied, My grandparents are Nahor

(12:21):
and Milka. Yes, we have plenty of straw and feed
for the camels, and we have room for guests. The
man bowed low and worshiped the Lord. Praise the Lord,
the God of my master Abraham. He said, the Lord
has shown unfailing love and faithfulness to my master, for
he has led me straight to my master's relatives. The
young woman ran home to tell her family everything that

(12:42):
had happened. Now, Rebecca had a brother named Laban, who
ran out to meet the man at the spring. He
had seen the nose ring, the bracelets on his sister's wrists,
and heard Rebecca tell what the man had said, So
he rushed to the spring where the man was still
standing beside the camels. Laban said to him, come and
stay with us, you who are blessed by the Lord.

(13:05):
Why are you standing here outside of the town when
I have all this room ready for you and a
place prepared for your camels. So the man went home
with Laban, and Laban unloaded the camels, gave him straw
for the bedding, fed them, provided water for the man
and the camels and the camel drivers to wash their feet.

(13:25):
Then food was served, but Abraham's servant said, I don't
want to eat until I have told you why I
have come. All right, Laban said, tell us, I am
Abraham's servant. He explained, and the Lord greatly blessed my master.
He has become a wealthy man. The Lord has given
him flocks of sheep, goats, herds of cattle, a fortune
in gold and silver, and many female and male servants,

(13:47):
and many camels and donkeys. When Sarah, my master's wife,
was very old, she gave birth to my master's son,
and my master had given him everything he owns. And
my master made me take an oath. He said, don't
allow my son to marry one of these local Canaanite women.
Go instead to my father's house to my relatives and
find a way for my son. But I said to

(14:08):
my master, what if I can't find a young woman
who is willing to come back with me. He responded,
the Lord in whose presence I have lived, will send
this his angel with you and make your mission successful. Yes,
you must find a wife for my son among my
relatives from my father's family. Then you will have fulfilled
your obligation. But if you go to my relatives and

(14:32):
they refuse to let her go with you, you will be
free from my oath. So today, when I came to
the spring, I prayed this prayer. Oh Lord God, my
master Abraham, please give me success on this mission. See
I am standing here beside the spring. This is my request.
When a young woman comes to draw water, I will
say to her, please give me a drink of water
from your jug. If she says, yes, have a drink,

(14:55):
and I will draw water for your camels too. Let
her be the one you have selected to be the
wife of mine master's son. Before I had finished praying
in my heart, I saw Rebecca coming out with her
water jug on her shoulder. She went down to the
spring and drew water. So I said to her, please
give me a drink. She quickly lowered her jug from
her shoulder and said, yes, have a drink, and I
will water your camels too. So I drank, and then

(15:17):
she watered the camels. Then I asked whose daughter are you?
She replied, I am the daughter of Bethuell, and my
grandparents are Nahor and Milka. So I put the ring
on her nose and the bracelets on her wrist. Then
I bowed low and worshiped the Lord. I praise the Lord,
the God of my master Abraham, because he led me
straight away to my master's niece to be his wife's son.

(15:38):
So tell me, will you or won't you show unfailing
love and faithfulness to my master. Please tell me yes
or no, and then I'll know what to do next.
Then Laban and Bethew won't, replied, the Lord has obviously
brought you here, so there is nothing we can say.
Here is Rebecca, Take her and go, yes, let her
be the wife of your master's son the Lord, as

(15:58):
the Lord has directed. When Abraham's servant heard their answer,
he bowed low to the ground and worshiped the Lord.
Then he brought out silver and gold jewelry and clothing
and presented them to Rebecca. He also gave expensive presents
to her brother and mother. Then they ate their meal,
and the servant and the men with him stayed there overnight.
But early the next morning, abraham servant said, send me

(16:21):
back to my master, but we want Rebecca to stay
with us at least ten days. Her brother and mother said,
then she can go, but he said, don't delay me.
The Lord has made my mission successful. Now send me
back so I can return to my master. Well, they said,
we'll call Rebecca and ask her what she thinks. So
they called Rebecca, Are you willing to go with this man?

(16:41):
They asked her. She replied, yes, I will go. So
they said goodbye to Rebecca and sent her away with
Abraham's servant and his men. The woman who had been
Rebecca's childhood nurse went along with her. They gave her
this blessing as she parted, Our sister, may you become
a mother of many millions. May her descendants be strong

(17:02):
and conquer the cities of their enemies. Then Rebecca and
her servant girls mounted the camels and followed the man.
So Abraham's servant took Rebecca and went on his way. Meanwhile, Isaac,
whose home was in the Negev, had returned from beer
Lehi Roy one evening. As he was walking and meditating
in the fields, he looked up and saw the camels coming.

(17:25):
When Rebecca looked up and saw Isaac, she quickly dismounted
from her camel. Who is that man walking through the
fields to meet us, she said to the servant, and
he replied, it is my master. So Rebecca covered her
face with the veil. Then the servant told Isaac everything
he had done. And Isaac brought Rebecca into his mother,
Sarah's tent, and she became his wife, and he loved

(17:46):
her deeply, and she was a special comfort to him
after the death of his mother. And that was a
long chapter. Got a breathe for a minute. There's a
lot in there as well. I know this isn't this
is the next chapter, but there's a lot in this chapter.

(18:11):
I think there's a couple of things that are interesting
if you go into the beginning here. I always wondered this,
so I had to look this up for this especially.
But when it says that he places his thigh here
his hand under his thigh as a solemn oath. You
know it always I always thought it's just really weird.
Why would you put your hand?

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Ye?

Speaker 7 (18:33):
So I look this up and there's a Jewish philosopher
from the twelfth century name even Ezra and what he says,
and it's not the thigh. He says that you would
place your genitals in his hand. And he said this
was a practice practiced by many cultures. This guy's from

(18:54):
the twelfth century Jewish philosopher says that you would place
your genitals in their hand. And I under if you
think about it to a man, and I know it
may sounds funny, but you know, you don't have the
Bible to swear on like an oath like we do.
Now you get to court, you swear in the Bible.
Maybe it's the next most sacred thing is your fertility,
Like you're swearing on your fertility. That this like like

(19:19):
I'm putting my my manhood in your hand, Like I'm
swearing on that that is my fertility. So I'm giving
this up if I'm lying to you, and I don't.
I don't know if that's exactly the case, but he
said it was very common that even Ezra from the
I gues said twelfth century said that was a common
practice in multiple cultures to actually place the genitals in

(19:41):
the hand as part of that oath.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Was it a mutual thing or is it just the masters?

Speaker 7 (19:50):
Yes, So like if if he's saying, like I'm swearing this,
then you're you're holding his right right, so I'm swearing this,
like he'd say, put his hand in the Bible saying
I'm swearing this. But no, he's like, I'm gonna put
what's sacred to me, my fertility, my bloodline, is in
your hands. I'm not recommending anybody still try this. This

(20:13):
is this is one of those biblical things that's okay,
that it's past, it's done, it's okay. But I just
think that that's kind of interesting because I've heard that
that's not the only place in the Bible that says
that says that very frequently. You see that where it
says put your hand under his thigh.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
And it's kind of like lay at the feet.

Speaker 7 (20:32):
Yes, yes, yeah, I think that's very much. I think
that's very much has to go back to the importance
of fertility, because if you look even later, Rebecca, right,
she's not fertile. Again for quite some time, or fertile
at all for quite some time, until Isaac actually goes

(20:52):
to God and prays for that. But I don't know.
I just I think that's something really interesting that I've
never heard before.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
And yeah, me neither.

Speaker 8 (21:02):
Wow, Yeah, that's I was sitting there thinking when you
were reading it.

Speaker 10 (21:06):
I was like, wow, what, hey, spook can how's winter
treating you? Wait, don't answer. We hear the shoveling from here.
If you're craving a getaway where the snow doesn't follow
you around like a clinging X, head to Vancouver, Washington.
I'm sure we still do winter, but ours comes with
green evergreens, cozy cafes, riverfront views, and exactly zero mandatory

(21:30):
snowplouk conversations. When your driveway is buried, our trails are open,
when your windshield freeze is ours gets a polite missing
Vancouver Washington winter just softer.

Speaker 8 (21:43):
Let me put my hand under your thigh and I'll
swear to you. Let me put my finger in your ear.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Oh gosh, oh no, don't be in.

Speaker 8 (21:53):
Don't in your belly button.

Speaker 7 (22:00):
There's a couple of things. When we go a little further,
I think it's interesting when you see the servant get
to the well. Right. He's asked God to do this,
and Rebecca's the first one it shows up. So God's
answering the prayer right away. He doesn't realize it right away.
But God also is like the master's suspense here because
he says, okay, if she says, yeah, I'll give you

(22:22):
a drink and then I'll water your camels, like she's
the one. So she goes, yeah, i'll give you a drink.
She lowers her joke, she lets him have a drink
and I'll water your camels. And God's like, there it is.
That was pretty cool. He still doesn't really know it
until he realizes, yeah, that's Abraham's niece right. Ultimately from

(22:46):
nahor so he realizes, yeah, okay, this is the real thing.
But just kind of cool how God did that. He
like held him in a state of suspense for just
a second. He's like, but here it is, and I
don't know, I just think it's it's so cool the
way that you see, the way that God works in
the way that he does those things. But one other thing,

(23:06):
going a little further is we see Laban and it's
kind of weird that you see so first the whole
I should say this, and I'm you guys, cut me
off at whenever you want to. But the whole thing
when when he goes to the servant, goes to get Rebecca,
he kind of takes the place of Isaac to some degree,

(23:27):
because you know, you don't send somebody to go get
your wife. You go get your wife. It's almost like
a betrothal ceremony the whole way that takes place. So
it's kind of interesting how he does it. So he's
kind of an intermediary, you know, for Isaac in that way.
So even when she comes back at the end, she
puts the veil over her face because you know, just
like with Jacob and Leah, right the veils on her face.

(23:50):
That's why he doesn't realize it's her when he gets married.
You don't know her, she hit where's that veil? Until
the wedding night, she doesn't even realize it's not even
the same person. So she puts that veil down at
that point. But just interesting, it's almost that betrothal ceremony
where you're right there. But Laban is kind of interesting
right after that because Laban was the first thing that

(24:12):
Laban spots kind of gives us a little judgment of
his character. He spots the gold nose ring and the
gold bracelets, and he's like, oh, and we see what
kind of person Laban is later on with Jacob, But
this is the first hint to that Laban maybe doesn't
always have everybody's best interest. Maybe he's a little selfish,
maybe he's a little greedy. And he comes through on that.

(24:35):
So I don't know, it's just a few of the
things I noticed in the very beginning of the chapter.
You guys see something.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Well, I thought that Laban came out. It was like,
why is he coming instead of the father?

Speaker 7 (24:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
And in the notes of the ESV Study Bible that
I got, it says that the actions of Laban, Rebecca's brother,
suggests that he has taken on the day to day
responsibility of overseeing the family. While Laban's father, Bethewell, is
still alive, his lack of involvement in the narrative suggests

(25:16):
that he may well be incapacitated, possibly through old age.
But I wonder now that you said what you said.
It was just like no money, money, money, money, money, Hey,
I'll go meet this guy. He might tip me for
taking him back to the house and he did.

Speaker 8 (25:34):
And for unloading his camels for him.

Speaker 7 (25:37):
And yep, so you see that. I don't know. I
just think that's kind of interesting.

Speaker 8 (25:44):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 7 (25:45):
Now you see a little further down were this is
always sounds kind of funny too. He's talking about Okay,
let me come and take let's take Rebecca back, Like no,
let her stay here for ten days and she'll come
after that. Okay, ten days, Like what's the point of
ten days? Like is ten days really that big a difference?
Like is it just Hey, I'm gonna say goodbye to you.

(26:06):
But if you go into the Hebrew, it's actually kind
of interesting because the language that's used is a little
bit it can kind of be interpreted a couple of ways.
What is said to be ten days actually can be
interpreted as ten months. So when you look at that,
ten months makes that's a bigger difference, right, And we

(26:29):
already know the kind of person Laban turns into seven years,
turns into fourteen years just to get Rachel. So who knows,
And this maybe the servant has some insight from God,
like I need to do this now, it needs to
happen now. But the fact is that that they could
have been insinuating that they wanted her to stay ten
more months until a certain period of time. For some reason,

(26:50):
I'm not sure why that number ten was significant, but
they want her to stay ten more months until she
went to be with Isaac. But the servants like, nah, not.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
No, he's coming, She's coming now.

Speaker 8 (27:05):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
And how they tell him not to take any wives
from the Canaanites. You know, it goes back to the
whole Noah and the uncovering of thy father's nakedness, you know,
where he he's ham slept with his mother and impregnated
her and Canaan was the result. So Canaan was an
incest baby, so therefore he was a cursed lineage. They

(27:28):
weren't supposed to take part in interbreed and mix with
those those people. But one thing that really kind of
stood out to me, and I talked about it in
the book, was the first interaction between you know, uh,
the servants and Bethe or however you say the name,

(27:50):
but uh, he said, oh, yeah, I'm coming in the
name of my master and his lord, you know, the
Lord jahway, because that's the tetragrammaicon in the original Hebrew. Uh,
but he says, you know to this, you know God
you speak of, I can speak neither good nor evil.
So it kind of shows you that he didn't know

(28:11):
who Yahweh was. So therefore he obviously wasn't worshiping and
serving Yahweh. He didn't know who he was because he said,
Yahweh you speak of, I could neither speak good nor evil.

Speaker 7 (28:23):
No, it's still they were very much still pagan at
that time, as most those areas were, you know, post Babel.
We've talked about this a bunch of times, and this
is where I think people get hung up on the exodus. Uh,
you know, when they get out and they go after
these Canaanite clans and the Parazites and the Jebusites and
all these other giant clans, and God's telling them to

(28:45):
wipe them out. We kind of, I think miss the
mark on that sometimes is if you go back not
that many generations, not that many generations, it was a
Tower of Babel. At the Tower of Babel, everybody knew
who God was. Everybody had come. They were one people,
one language, one religion. They knew who God was. The

(29:08):
languages changed, the language changed, and they went off they
all had the story. They all knew who Yahweh was,
whether or not they called them Yahweh or whatever in
their language, but their version of Yahweh that the name
that they that they held sacred, you know, Yahweh. They
were saying it in a different language. But as you
trickle down past that, we have the telephone game. Partly,

(29:32):
we don't have written language right away and all these
other languages. But these people knew the truth and they
still deviated from it, just like the Israelites throughout the
entire exodus deviate away from it. And what has God
to have to do? He has to reponmand sons.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Of God, you know from Deuteronomy thirty two. They're ruling
over the nations and influencing the people and accepting worship
instead of overseeing them and helping them.

Speaker 7 (29:58):
And that's the thing too, is people have to understand
how supernatural it was, because you do not you don't
have Yahweh. And you see this, you know, a pillar
of fire leading you at night and a pillar of
smoke during the day leading you, and you see these
manna comes from heaven. You know, all this amazing stuff.

(30:18):
And then you're like, you know what I gotta feel
like sacrificing my kid to Molec today, like that doesn't happen.
Like Molek had to be able to do something. Molac
had to show them something. There was something they were
getting in return for going against God's word. So if
you think that all these lowercase g gods that we

(30:38):
talk about were just a name, they're just an idol,
then you're making out the Israelites even dumber than you
can even imagine. Because it was a supernatural world and
they knew it. They were seeing it on all sides.
The Pharaoh's magicians could do the first three things that
Moses did when he was trying to get the people

(30:59):
freed from meat. They turned their snakes into surf, or
their stabs into serpents. They they turned the nile to blood.
They've caused frogs to come up out of the out
of the river. They could do all those things, But
then God keeps taking it the next step, the next step,
showing you, well, anything you can do, I can do better.

Speaker 6 (31:16):
You know, just a new phone for Billy, a necklace
for Sam all the while, and the lookout for scams,
A swipe here and tap there, better make it go
far turns out Mom didn't know she needs a new car.

Speaker 9 (31:27):
This here.

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Speaker 7 (31:46):
That kind of thing. So, but those lower case g
gods could do things, and that's why they fell away
over and over and over again, because they saw something amazing.
They didn't have the Holy Spirit either, which I think
is it plays a big role too. But they saw amazing,
supernatural things all around them. And that's where even even
nahor here and Beth you well right, they they had

(32:13):
been exposed to the same things Abraham had been exposed to.
God took Abraham aside, set him aside for a special purpose.
But they all knew the stories. The stories had come down,
They knew the truth of who Yahweh was. It's just
they start branching in and if you watch throughout the Exodus,
israelates to beg Yeah, Yeahweh is awesome. But why don't
we bring in chimash too, Why don't bring in you know,

(32:36):
astro off too, These little Ashra poles aren't that big
a deal. We're just gonna add it all. Why can't
we worship everybody? It's every everything turns into a polytheistic society,
and every time that God lets them go, holytheism happens.
And what's one of the you know, the first of
the ten commandments, thou should not have any other gods

(32:58):
before you. And that's the first thing God writes up there.
And what is he By the time he's down the hill,
they already have a golden calf in front of him.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yeah. And the second one, you know, lets you know
that he's he's talking about real entities, not wood and stone,
because he separates the two. The very next commandment is
don't make idols. So, you know, for the people want
to say, oh, when they're talking about gods, they are
talking about, you know, idols of wood and stone. Well no,
obviously not, because God, you know, makes two separate rules

(33:28):
and splits those two into two separate things. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (33:32):
It's and that's where once again we try to suppress
the supernatural in our society, especially nowadays. I was listening
to somebody the other day and I thought it was
pretty interesting. I'm trying to remember who it was, Gus,
who was it. I think it might have been Bo Kennedy. Actually,

(33:53):
I was listening to something from him, and he said,
if you think about it, you know when it talks
about someone being demon possessed, when a demon's cast out
of somebody, right, it says in the Bible, if you
know you go back to what you're doing, that that
demon will come back with seven more of his buddies.
It gets worse. If you're not truly repenting, you don't

(34:15):
turn away from your ways, that demon becomes worse than
it was before. Now, imagine if we take that on
a global scale. Say we take that on on our
national scale, and we say our country, which you know
we say is founded on God at least the freedom
of religion. And you know, when the Pilgrims got here,

(34:36):
it was the freedom to use the Geneva Bible and
all these different things that we you know, they were under,
they were oppressed where they were, but we our country
founded on God. And then all of a sudden, everything
you see is little pieces of God being pulled away
from the rest of society. All of a sudden, you

(34:57):
look at our country and now we're like, well we
start going from God and now we're bringing an evolution.
So you know, we don't really need a God now
we have you know, atheists, well, God's not really a
real thing. It's just a construct. It's it's something in
your mind. So you know, it's just a it's kind
of like a psychological disorder to believe in God, you know,
according to like an atheist.

Speaker 8 (35:17):
Yeah, they make doubt we're believing in God's kind of
like that's just what people did to make themselves feel better.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah, to control people.

Speaker 7 (35:27):
But if you think about it, so now you take
all that out of our society, say, the more you
take God out, same thing as before you had, you know,
this one demon before working on you. Now it brings
in seven times as much. Look at our country right now. Yeah,
it is just exponentially getting worse in most places. I mean,

(35:50):
you could look at it as a new Babylon. There's
absolutely no doubt because we are such a materialistic, such
a society focused on what can you do for me
and what's important to me? On a very selfish, ego
centric society. And once again, I'm not saying there aren't
great people out there that say, oh, I want to

(36:10):
help this person. I want to help this person. But
when you look at you know God that actually says
without faith and him, there's no such thing as a
good deed. It doesn't care what you do. You could
sit there and give poor people all the money in
the world you want without faith, God doesn't care. You
still have to have faith in God. So when you

(36:31):
look at this and you look at the degradation of
our society and how we've gotten to the point, it
goes back to that one quote is the greatest trick
the devil ever polled is making the world think he
didn't exist. And that right now is where the majority
of I think our country is. And I'm talking about
even about church goers, people that have you know that
we sit there and we talk about as you know,

(36:53):
this part of the church. Oh, but they they are
so brainwashed in a different way that if we don't
go to our Bible, if we don't go into the
word ourselves, you're listening to one man, whether you're listening
to the pope, which please don't tell me you're doing that.
But if you're listening to just even one pastor. And

(37:17):
I even say this, I think we have the best
pastor in the on the planet at our church. I'm
the planet. And he's still a man, He's still fallible.
Like I shouldn't just listen to him. I need to
go to the book myself. I need to go to
the word myself. And that's where we are so stuck

(37:40):
as a society, is that we are so comfortable listening
to somebody else tell us what to do.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
Well, I want to read, don't want to search things
out ourselves. It's as much easier just sit back and
have the mommy, have the spoon with the Garber food
in it, and the airplane.

Speaker 7 (37:59):
Yeah. Well, and I mean, listen, if you literally go
back to the last Pope, he said all religions are
path to Heaven. That is the most anti scriptural thing
you could say. I mean, he literally that was words
he spoke. So you have to be really careful who
you listen to. You know. The Pope's always been revered

(38:19):
as far as the Christian Roman Catholic Church, especially as
someone who's supposed to be in line with the God
the best for the people. But the problem is when
you give one person too much power other than Jesus,
it's gonna go sideways. Our focus needs to be on Jesus,
not on a person, not on a pope, not on

(38:40):
your pastor, not on your priest, not on your minister,
not on your rabbi, not on whoever. Needs to be
on Jesus. Sough, I gotta breathe for a minute.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
I'm sorry, No, you're right, man.

Speaker 7 (38:56):
But all right. One other thing I saw at the
end of this that I thought was pretty interesting, because
I think there's some symbolism there. He said. At the
very end, it'says Isaac brought Rebecca into his mother Sarah's tent,
and she became his wife. He loved her deeply and
she was a special comfort to him after the death

(39:17):
of his mother. Now it says she brings him into
his mother's tent. I mean that literally literally. Could have
been yes, like this is the you can have this
tent now mom doesn't use it anymore. Could be that.
But really I think what he's saying is more of
a thing saying she's the new matriarch of the Israelites.

(39:41):
This is what's gonna happen. Everything's going to come through
her now, so that covenant that was with Sarah now
is through Isaac and Rebecca. She's the new matriarch of Israel.
So I think that probably is more of a metaphorical
saying more than just saying, hey, here's a tent, you
can sleep here.

Speaker 6 (39:58):
No.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, it could have been the consummation of the marriage,
because it was one of those things that's you weren't
married to. It was consummated, and maybe they had to
do that in front of their mother or parents to
eyewitness Yes it happened. That depicted in movies and stuff
like Kings and Queens and Game of Thrones and all that.
It's like they want to be sure the deed happens.

(40:22):
They want to you know, we're consummated.

Speaker 7 (40:25):
If swearing an oath means somebody is holding your genitals,
I guess anything can happen.

Speaker 8 (40:31):
I was gonna say, I guess me and married yet.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Call up mom and dad.

Speaker 8 (40:38):
Yep, Nope, I don't think so. It'd be easier for Steve.
He just right out run out another.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Of the house across the field.

Speaker 8 (40:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (40:51):
Yeah, I think, uh, you'll pass too. We're gonna we're
gonna take it. We're gonna take scoutsigner. Yeah, I promise
I did.

Speaker 8 (41:03):
Oh you did? Got two boys just like so, Yeah,
that's what I was about to say.

Speaker 7 (41:14):
You guys got anything else in twenty four?

Speaker 8 (41:16):
Nope, lot don't we.

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Speaker 7 (42:01):
Jump into twenty five and I honestly think we probably
have enough in twenty five to go another six hours.
I see Justin's face lighting up. That'll be asleep in
the chair. But or he'll be working on that heavy
bag behind him.

Speaker 8 (42:21):
Buddies, But why don't we jump out this fire? I've
been feeling my jacket off.

Speaker 7 (42:26):
I see that. Do you see Skillets coming again? Here
with it's like Jeremy Camp or something here in the
next few months for what they're coming for a kind again? No,
it's a different concert. Oh, I can't remember. I saw
it just I saw it just a little bit ago.
You should look it up.

Speaker 8 (42:43):
Well, I'll see them three times, so I think they're good. Yeah,
they're my favorite band.

Speaker 7 (42:50):
Well, then see him four all right.

Speaker 8 (42:53):
Twenty if I can there you go, I'll see him
ten months.

Speaker 7 (42:58):
Worth, ten days worth? Oh you mean months months? All right?

Speaker 9 (43:03):
Yeap?

Speaker 8 (43:05):
Forty all all seventy seventy is all them new beginnings? Sorry, sorry, Sandy,
all right.

Speaker 7 (43:17):
Chapter twenty five. Abraham married another wife whose name was Kentura.
She gave birth to zim Ran Joke Shan, Meddan, Median Ishbach,
and Shusha Joke Shan was the father of Shiba and Dedan.
Dan's descendants were the Asturerites, the Letashites, and the Lemuites.

(43:43):
Median sons were epha Efr, Hannak, Abaidah, and Elda. These
were all the descendants of Abraham through Kentura. Abraham gave
everything he owned to Isaac, his son, But before he
died he gave gifts to his sons of his concubines
and sent them off to the land to the east,

(44:05):
away from Isaac. Abraham lived for one hundred and seventy
five years, and he died at the ripe old age.
Having lived a long satisfying life, he breathed his last
and joined his ancestors in death. His sons Isaac and
Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpela near Mamr,

(44:25):
in the field of Ephron, son of Zohar the Hittite.
This was the field Abraham had purchased from the Hittites
where he had buried his wife Sarah. After Abraham's death,
God blessed his son Isaac, who settled near beer lehigh
Roy in the Negev. This is the account of the
family of Ishmael, the son of Abraham, through Hagar, Sarah's

(44:45):
Egyptian servant. Here is the list of their names and
clans of Ishmael's descendants. The oldest was Niobeth, followed by
keidar adbil MiB Sah Mishmah, Duma, Masa, Hadad, Tima, Jettuur, Nappish,

(45:06):
and Kidman. These twelve sons of Ishmael became the founders
of the twelve tribes named after them, listed according to
the places they settled and camped. Ishmael lived for one
hundred and thirty seven years and breathed his last and
joined his ancestors in death. Ishmael's descendants occupied the region
from Havilah to Shur, which is east of Egypt in

(45:29):
the direction of Asher. There they lived in open hostility
towards all their relatives. This is the account of the
family of Isaac, son of Abraham. When Isaac was forty
years old, he married Rebecca, the daughter of Bethuel, the
Armenian from pad A ram And the sister of Laban
And the Armenian. Isaac pleaded with the Lord on behalf

(45:50):
of his wife because she was unable to have children,
so Isaac. So the Lord answered Isaac's prayer and Rebecca
became pregnant with twins, but the two children struggle with
each other in her womb, so she went to ask
the Lord about it. Why is this happening to me,
she asked, and the Lord told her, the sons in
your room would become two nations from the very beginning.

(46:12):
The two nations will be rivals. One nation will be
stronger than the other. And your older son will serve
as your younger son. And when the time came to
give birth, Rebecca discovered that she did indeed have twins.
The first one was very red at birth and covered
with thick hair like a fur coat, so they named
him Esau. The other twin was born with his hand
grasping Esau's heel, so they named him Jacob. Isaac was

(46:35):
sixty years old when the twins were born. As the
boys grew up, Esau became a skillful hunter. He was
an outdoorsman, but Jacob had a quiet temperament, preferring to
stay at home. Isaac loved Esau because he enjoyed eating
the wild game Esau brought home, but Rebecca loved Jacob.
One day, when Jacob was cooking some stew, Esau arrived

(46:57):
home from the wilderness, exhausted and hungry. Sesa I said
to Jacob, I am starved. Give me some of that
red stew. This is how Esau got his other name, Eaedom,
which means red. All right, Jacob replied, but trade me
your rights is first born. Look, I'm dying of starvation,
said Esau. What good is my birthright to me now?

(47:17):
But Jacob said, first you must swear your birthright is mine.
So Esau swore an oath, thereby selling his rights as
first born to his brother Jacob. Then Jacob gave Esa
some bread and lentil stew. Esau ate the meal and
got up and left. He showed contempt for his rights
as the first born. And that is chapter twenty five.

(47:39):
And that's a lot shorter chapter, but there's still a
lot in there.

Speaker 5 (47:43):
M h.

Speaker 8 (47:45):
The first thing, God, they just appeared at the tall
it says, because you have the whole Muslim religion and
the Christian Jewish religion over Isaac and Issa or not
isa ishma Ishmael. Right. And here it says before he died,

(48:10):
he gave gifts to his sons, or he gave everything
to Isaac, so that would be his whole blessing and everything,
and which I don't know what the Koran says, because
I know they have somewhat of the first five books. Also,
if I remember right, but I just found that interesting.

(48:36):
That could be a possible talking point if he was
speaking with a Muslim person.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
Two.

Speaker 7 (48:47):
What shows right away? It says they lived there in
open hostility towards their.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Relatives and they still do.

Speaker 7 (48:54):
Yeah, that is it's been foretold. I mean that was
foretold from the get go. But I want to go
back and show you right here again. And we talked
about this earlier Abraham and Sarah, because I'm not putting
the full blame on Sarah, but when Hagar, Sarah's like,
take my servant, Hagar, you know, have a son with her,

(49:14):
so that you have a lineage. You know, God's already
promised that they're gonna have a son. But Sarah's like, well,
obviously it's not gonna be for me. I'm like ninety,
so why don't you take take Hagar and have a son?
And he does. And so Abraham, being a man's like, sure,
you know, I mean that's pretty much. I can't see

(49:36):
it much other way if you're a guy. Is just
like he's sitting there saying, oh, you're telling me to
have another woman too? All pass Yeah, exactly, Like.

Speaker 8 (49:45):
I think he is more like, honey, are you sure
wink wink. Yeah, I don't know if this is right,
wink wink.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
It's just so we can have some children.

Speaker 8 (49:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (49:56):
I'll take this one for the team.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (49:59):
So if you think about it though, it's it's you know,
what happens is and what he shouldn't done and what
they shouldn't have done is they both went outside what
God had planned. They tried to take it into their
own hands. That simple thing, that very simple thing is
where this entire war in our world is going on

(50:21):
today is still from that one sin, that the hatred,
that the twelve tribes of Ishmael and the twelve tribes
of Israel still hate each other. That there's still always war.
There's been war since this time over there. It has
not stopped. You'll have a couple of days where it's

(50:43):
like it's peaceful, but over here somebody's still shooting. Over here,
somebody's still shooting. But there's always war in the Middle East.
They're always is war. There's perpetual war.

Speaker 8 (50:54):
That's why they they won't stop.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Also, I will put enmity, yeah, between the two.

Speaker 7 (51:03):
So we see, but we see that right away. I
think that you know, it's just a It just shows
you cannot take what God's plans are into your own hands.
You know, you have to have faith. If God tells
you something, God means it, God's gonna make it happen.

(51:25):
God could literally have just given him a rock and
said here's a baby, and by the time they looked
down it was a baby. It just could have happened
that way, right. So, and Abraham's had a lot of
faith up to this point. Well, I guess he had
more faith a little bit after, because, like when we
talked about it last time with you know, Isaac, when
he went to to to sacrifice Isaac under God's construction,

(51:51):
he didn't question them. He just went to do it.
This is the same son that he was so worried about.
He hadn't had that they had to go and try
to make one themselves, right, But he believed, and we
talked about this too. He believed, just like I think
he believed, just like David believed. David's like, well, I
haven't been king yet, so I know Goliath isn't gonna
kill me because God's already told me I'm gonna be king.

(52:13):
So you know, He's sitting there like Abraham's like, well,
Isaac's already going to be the descend you know, he's
going to be the father of many nations through may
you know it's gonna be him. So God can't actually
kill him here And if you actually go to Hebrews eleven,
it tells you that Abraham's full intent said that he
knew that if God, if he killed Isaac, God would

(52:35):
bring him back from the dead. Hebrews eleven tells us
that so he you know, in a sense, he did
bring him back from the dead because he was a
blood sacrifice at that moment laying on that altar. And
also Isaac most likely was not a twelve fourteen year
old kid. He was most likely at twenties or thirties,
and he was a willing participant in this, saying, hey,

(52:56):
if this is what God wants, like, you know, one
hundred year old man's not going to overpower him. So
Bibraham had faith. Abraham had faith. But we still struggle
with certain things. You know, when we take things into
our own hands, things often go the opposite direction of

(53:17):
what we anticipate, and that that's where that's where things
get shady in the Bible. Then we see that even
more next chapter, we'll talk about it more. But it's
another funny thing because you see Isaac with a Bimelek
doing the same thing that Abraham did with Bimlek, which
is also funny because a Bimelek was just a it

(53:38):
was most likely a dynastic name that they would give
the kings of the Philistines that were in Gerrara, because
they that the and the military commander. Commander was always
named Nicole, And I see l the guy was seventy
years apart. The guys had the same names. So it's
it's a name that's given to the commander of the army,
and whoever the king is at that time, they have

(54:00):
the same name. A Bimelek is always a Bimelek. Nicole
is always Nicole. It's just the way it worked. But
I'm sorry, we're really reverting here.

Speaker 8 (54:09):
Like more of a title than actually it is like.

Speaker 7 (54:12):
A title, but it's like it's far as like a
It's kind of like when you go in, you could
look at it like the pharaohs. Right, you got Ramsey's
the first, Ramsey's a second, Ramsey's a third, Ramsey's a fourth.
I mean, there is there is you know, and then
they jump in they have all these names that this
is who you're named under this dynasty or under this
this this section of history, this is who we look to.

(54:35):
So this is your Ramsey or your Seti or your
Thutmows or you're all these different you know, different kings.
There was always almost always more than one in each
line of that name, but they would either call them
what the first one usually you know, it'd be like
Herod the Great, but like there was also Herod the Second.

(54:56):
You know, there's there's more than one Herod. Actually, Herod Agrippa,
who was the the the Herod that or Agrippa, King
Agrippa that Paul talked to an axe before he's killed,
was actually the son grandson. He was the grandson of

(55:16):
Herod the Great, who is the one that had all
the babies executed when Jesus was born. So you see
the full thing come full circle. It's just so cool
when you see all the pieces kind of fit back
together anyway, just kind of cool. So we get to
the birth of Jacob and Esau and one comes out

(55:40):
red and furry.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
Mm covered and hair, had the toe like a Harry Cloak.
Sounds pretty squatchy to me, it's squatchy. Yeah, And uh,
of course a lot of peoples familiar with that story. Uh,
and even maybe the people that's read my book kind
of knows my point on that. But I was wanting

(56:02):
to read from Lewis Ginsburg Legends of the Jews a
little excerpt just to show you, you know, whether this
is true or not. This was a story. This is
an oral legend. This was something that they knew, recited
and believed, and it kind of gives more context. And

(56:23):
I think we've talked about it several times in the show.
Like Genesis six, you get this little blurb about this
really big important event because they didn't want to theoretically
be the dead horse. They're like, everybody knows about that.
I don't have to go into detail about that. Everybody knows.
We got plenty of stories, we got plenty of scrolls.
We got the scroll of Enoch, you know, so that's

(56:46):
a thing. Even with Esau, you gonna get a little
bit about him because there's so many other scrolls and stories.
So they don't they feel they're not thinking of us
thousand of years later reading it. They're thinking about the
people there and at that time that I already know
all this stuff, so I think it's really important to
read this stuff. But it says in here in the

(57:08):
legends of the Jews, talking about the pregnancy. When she
become pregnant, it said she suffered torturous pain because her
twin sons began their lifelong quarrels in her womb. They
strove to kill each other. If Rebecca walked in the
vicinity of a temple erected to idols, Esau moved in

(57:31):
her body, and if she passed a synagogue or a
bethhah midrash, jacob Is sayed, whatever that means to break
forth from her wound. The quarrels of the children turned
upon such differences as these. Esau went in sight that

(57:51):
there was no life except the earthly life of material pleasures.
And Jacob would reply, my brother, there are two worlds
before us, this world and the world to come. In
this world, men eat and drink, and traffic, and marry
and bring up sons and daughters. But all this does
not take place in the world to come. If it

(58:14):
pleased thee, do thou take this world and I will
take the other. Esau had semi l as his ally.
And for those that's not familiar, that is the according
to the Jewish beliefs is this was the name of
the nakash before the fall, Satan semi L. So it

(58:37):
says Esau had semi L as his ally, who desired
to slay Jacob in his mother's womb, but the archangel
Michael hastened to Jacob's aid. He tried to burn semi L,
and the Lord saw it was necessary to constitute a
heavenly court for the purpose of arbi trading. The case

(59:00):
of Michael and Samael. Even the quarrel between the two
brothers regarding the birthright had its beginning before they emerged
from the womb of their mother. Each desire to be
the first to come into the world. It was only
when Esau threatened to carry his point at the expense
of his mother's life, that Jacob gave way. Rebecca asked

(59:24):
other women whether they too had suffered such pain they're
in their pregnancy, and when they told her they had
not heard of a case like hers, except for the
pregnancy of Nimrod's mother. So I think that's pretty insightful.
They're saying that Satan is the guardian angel and protector

(59:47):
and overseer of Esau. He comes out red covered and
hair Now they're fighting in the womb. Tries to kill
Jacob and then even threatens to internal like, you know,
because so many women died during the birthing process during
this time. So it's saying that esauw was even telling
Jacob and the womb, you know, you don't let me

(01:00:09):
come out first, I'll kill her so to save his
mother's life. According to the story, you know, Jacob let
Esau be born first and get the birth right. So
it all goes back to Genesis three fifteen. Guys says,
I will put enmity between her seed and Diye seed,
you know, things the lords. So there's two nations. Two

(01:00:30):
people's in your womb, one comes out totally different. They're
fighting in the womb, you know, Esau's foot pushing on
Jacob's head, possibly bruising the head to exit the womb.
Jacob clutching the heel, bruising the heill. To me, it's

(01:00:50):
a polaroid picture of Genesis three fifteen and the people
of this time, I think that would have been the
first thing that popped into their head because we're just
a few chapters, and of course they didn't have chapters
back then, but it's just a little short ways down
the scroll from Chances three to fifteen this event happened,
So it's like a call back.

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Speaker 7 (01:01:40):
Going on to your point, you know, when we look
at the biblical side, because I love and this is
something where there's a lot of contention with the Church
as a whole about extra biblical texts. Right when they
talk about whether it's the Book at Enoch, whether it's
like you said, Legends of the Jews. You can go

(01:02:00):
through it, but you can see plainly. I've been reading
Joshua lately. That's been the book I've been in the
most recently, and it goes in and talks about all
these books about the acts of the kings of the
Jews and the acts of the or Israelites, whatever it is.
But there's all these different books. It says this was
recorded in this book, this was recorded in this book.

(01:02:23):
It's not in the Bible, but it's in a historical book. Now,
I'm not saying you should go out there and read
everything and just believe it as face value. We always
test everything against scripture, always, Scripture always supersedes. But these
people reference these different books, these different things, these different

(01:02:43):
different writings, and we have to test it against the Bible.
We have to. But they had history books the same
way we do. Just because you weren't at World War
One doesn't mean it didn't happen. You know, just because
the World War One isn't in the Bible, it didn't happen.
Just because the Maccabees aren't in the Bible doesn't mean

(01:03:04):
the Maccabees didn't exist. I mean, you go back in time, like,
there's so many things that happen in a reference in
the Bible that people of the time would have known.
Paul's right in this and he's like you would, you
would have. I mean, this is going on right now.
You would know this. I don't need to talk about it. It's
in all the tabloids right now.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
Instagram guys, I know this is on.

Speaker 7 (01:03:28):
Rock book or whatever. You know, who knows. But it's
the thing is, you have to know that this isn't all.
If everything that ever happened was in the Bible, you'd
never be able to read it all because it would
be pages and pages and pages that would fill up
your house and your neighbor's house and the house next
to it, and you would never be able to get
through it all. Because there's so much that happened. We're
given what we need. We don't need more than the Bible.

(01:03:50):
We don't, but if we want to keep digging, you know,
we're given so many things. I always ask this is
a question when we talk about these things of these books.
How did Peter die? He's cruis fed upside down? How
did Paul die? He's beheaded? Does your Bible tell you that, No,

(01:04:13):
it doesn't, but we teach it in church. Where does
it come from? Well, actually, those two deaths are cited
in over thirty different sources, not biblical sources. Why is
Peter CRUs fed upside down? He said, I'm not worthy
to be killed the same way Christ was turn me
upside down? Why was Paul beheaded? Well, he's a Roman citizen.

(01:04:34):
You're not allowed to crucify a Roman citizen, right if
you listen to the historian Jerome, he says, it was
actually in the ninth year of zero of Nero's reign
that they were killed on the same day, those two,
Peter and Paul. But but it's not in the Bible,
so it must not have happened. So we have to

(01:04:56):
look at this and have to understand. You have to
have discernment. You have to look at these things and
always go back to scripture. But we can't sit there
and pretend that there isn't more truth out there as
far as as far as different stories that have happened,
things that have happened, you know, whether it's stuff in
the apocrypha or whatever it is. I love Belle and
the Dragons. One of my favorite stories in the Apocrypha

(01:05:18):
about Daniel and Cyrus. Such a cool story. We know
Daniel and Cyrus knew each other. Is that story true?
I can't tell you for sure. I'm not gonna sit
there and say that supersedes the Bible, because it's not
going to tell you that it doesn't. But it's a
cool story that lends credence to who Daniel was, lends
creedence to who Cyrus was. It shows you more truth

(01:05:38):
that the Bible. The people that are talking about were
there because the Bible tells us they were there. So
it doesn't hurt my belief in the Bible. It shows
me and strengthens my faith. So I think when you
bring these things up, when you bring Lewis Ginsburg, or
we can talk about Rashie, or we can talk about
you know, Jubileeze or we can talk about the Book
of Maccabee's or we can talk about the Bookie Enoch.

(01:06:02):
I'm not saying you have to believe them. You don't
have that. It's not. It's a nonsalvation issue. But they
help fill in the holes of the history and take
it at face value. You can look at it and say, hey,
maybe they took some artistic liberties on things saying, you know,
giants were three thousand l's tall, which would be you know,
a little over half a mile, so that's pretty high.

(01:06:25):
But when you look at what it says and the
description of what it does, because in eight verses the
world goes from uh, you know, the sons of God
coming down and having intercourse with the daughters of men,
and eight verses later everybody has to be killed. That's
a lot to happen in eight verses.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
So happened.

Speaker 7 (01:06:48):
There's a lot more that got us there. So if
you look at the book Enoch, I think that gives
us a picture of a potential thing that happened at
that point. Not saying you have to believe it, you don't.
It doesn't matter salvation wise at all. But when we
like to dig into these things, and that's been the
whole point of this podcast is to go past just

(01:07:10):
the the just to pass the milk, right, We're not
trying to just drink the milk. We're trying to be
meat and potatoes. We want to get deep as we can,
and that means that it's we're gonna look at all
of our resources. So Bible always is number one, but
you have to look at these other resources. I think

(01:07:31):
I had a point to make and I totally went
past it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
But anyway, mm hmm, just keep uh. I'll mention a
couple of other little things that's in here. It stood
out to me, going on to said, the two nations,
they are each owning a world of its own, the
one the Torah, the other sin and the one will

(01:07:58):
spring Solomon, the builder of the Temple, from the other Vespian,
the destroyer thereof And going down. It says that Jacob
was born clean and sweet of body. Esau was brought

(01:08:22):
forth with hair, a beard, and teeth both front and back,
and he was blood red, a sign of his future
singuary nature, whatever that word means. But they compare him
again to Ishmael, because it says, on the account of
his ready appearance, he remained uncircumcised. Isaac's father feared that,

(01:08:47):
due to his condition, he hesitated to perform the circumcision.
He decided to wait until Esau should attain his thirteenth year.
At the age Ishmael received the Sign of the Covenant.
But when Esau grew up, he refused to give heed
to his father's wish, and so he was left uncircumcised,

(01:09:10):
the opposite of his brother in all this, as in
all respects, Jacob was born with the Sign of the
Covenant upon his body, a rare distinction. But Esau also
bore a mark upon him at birth, the figure of
a serpent, the symbol of all that is wicked and
hated of God. And that's why in our canon it

(01:09:31):
talks about Jacob I love, but Esau I hated. Those
pretty strong words, pretty strong words.

Speaker 7 (01:09:42):
So as we go a little further, we see the
birthright thing right, and this is something that everybody's heard.
Everybody's heard the story of him selling his birthright for
a bowl of soup. And most people look at Esau
saying that's pretty impulsive. He's in the here and now,
he's thinking just about this moment. He's not looking, you know,
he doesn't look towards the future or what that means.

(01:10:04):
But as we look at the Book of Jasher, which
is now there's a lot of contention about Jasher because
it's said to have been, you know, the one that
cited in the Bible is said to have been lost
over time and then refound in like the ninth century,
or rewritten in the ninth century, and then lost and
then found again in like the eighteenth century, and rewritten again.

(01:10:28):
So there's people that say that, you know, Jasher itself
is is not what the Bible cites as Jashure, which
it may not be. I don't know, but what I'll
tell you is that it does give us a pretty
good and it could have been just one of those
stories that's passed down, but it gives us a pretty
good reason for why Esau would be so impulsive with

(01:10:52):
his birthright. And I know, justin this is one of
your passions. So I'm gonna let you hit on that too.
I do think it's fascinating and it's it adds. There's
so much depth to this story because if you go
with Nimrod, you can go into so many different directions
and it just it just keeps going. It doesn't stop.
But dude, and actually, cool part about this, if you

(01:11:12):
think about it, why is Jacob making a stew and
so specific to that, I think you sit there and
it talks about how his father was so I loved
the game that Esau brought. What Esaw brought him to eat,
he was happy for. So maybe Jacob's actually trying to
win over his dad by making him something you can need,

(01:11:32):
even though it's some kind of vegetarian crap I wouldn't eat,
but he's bringing him something he's trying to impress his
dad with this Stew. But when Esau comes he sees
his opportunity.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
And the Jewish context too, is that was the mourner's meal.
They said that earlier at the beginning of the chapter.
This was around the death of Abraham. So Isaac's father
just asked, and according to some other writings and stuff
that when a father would die, h someone would his

(01:12:10):
eldest son would make the mourner's meal. And this was
the red Lentonel Stew. So Esau was out gallivant and
around doing whatever while his younger brother Jacob was performing
his duties. He was preparing the mourner's meal for his father.

(01:12:31):
And some people talk about that, and that's why Jacob
was upset and was like, oh, go ahead and just
trade me the birthright because you're not fulfilling your duties
that you're supposed to be doing. Anyway, I'm here doing it.
I'm taking care of that. But yeah, that trading of
the birth right, that never made sense to me. It's
your father's Donald Trump. In the modern context, you're gonna

(01:12:52):
you're the oldest son. You're gonna get the billions of dollars.
You're gonna get all the companies, You're gonna get all
the real estate. I mean, you are the the prince,
You're next in line to be king man, and you're
going to trade it for some for a bag of Doritos.
You're gonna come in your younger brother eat the bag
of Rido's. And he's like, yeah, I'll give you the Dreidos,

(01:13:13):
but sign over the company and all the money and
all the assets. Ah sure, what uses all that stuff
to me when I'm dead? And you're like, what so
like you said when you go into the Book of Jasher,
it says that, and just once again I read earlier
that when Rebecca was asking you as any other women

(01:13:34):
had this much complications and pain and travail and labor
and caring of a child, they said that all the
time they ever heard of this was with the birth
of Nimrod. So they're aligning him and comparing him, stacking
him against Nimrod, like he's an equal, he's a counterpart
to or a like, and both of them had the

(01:13:57):
title of the mighty hunter, the ghibel reim Hunter. So
the Book of Jasher says that Nimrod built up jealousy
and hatred all of his days against Esau. So it's
kind of like a high lander situation. There can only
be one mighty man. I'm going to show you who
the real mighty hunter is. And it says that basically

(01:14:19):
the way it words that is Nimrod goes out with
the hunting party and it is hunting this beast of
a man, this man covered in hair, Esau. But it
says that he saw sees them come and hides hisself,
jumps out, cuts off Nimrod's head, battles two of the
gibbelereim King's guards. So he kills three giants single handily

(01:14:43):
in combat, and it says that he takes the time
to steal Nimrod's garments, and it says these garments is
the reason that he was able to prevail over all
the nations, and the other guards that were in ear
shot heard all the commotion took off running after him.
So he takes the garments and runs home, and it

(01:15:05):
says that he goes into his tent, he hides these
garments and then goes into his brother's tent. Then there's
work picks up and dovetails off with Genesis, and that
makes perfect sense. He's like, you know, help me, brother,
save me, hide me, you know, sew up my wounds here.
And Jacob's like, yeah, I'll do that if you but

(01:15:26):
you're gonna give me everything. You're gonna owe me big time, bro.
And he was desperate man. And I think that fits
perfectly with the story and his response because Esau says,
what use is a first right to me when I'm dead?

Speaker 7 (01:15:41):
Take it?

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
So once again, it's if it's right, if it's wrong,
if it's indifferent, if it's an embellishment, either or that's irrelevant.
But what is relevant is is that was the stories
being passed down of the peace people of that time.
That's what they believed. And I believe that's why once

(01:16:06):
again you get just this little blurb about it and
keeps moving forward because you get the highlights here. Because
if you want to watch the whole game, you know,
you can flip over the ESPN and watch the full game.
So they had the Book of Jashure and all these
other stories. That was the full game, you know, So
when we're reading the Bible all these stories, that's the

(01:16:27):
ESPN highlight reel. You're getting the high notes and the
important stuff. But yeah, you're not getting the full basketball game,
you know.

Speaker 7 (01:16:42):
No, I agree. I think it's I just think it's interesting.
I think that's why it's important that we we dig
into these things so much. I just I know I've
already went over that, but I just you can't x
nay all those extra biblical sources when you still use
them for other things, when you use you we can
look at Josephus a lot, look at you CBS, you

(01:17:03):
look at Herodotus, Augustine. I mean, there's all these things
that are are you know, the targums, you know, all
these different things that we pull stuff from that compliment
the word that that I think are the other part
of the story. Once again, not something you need for salvation.

(01:17:24):
I can't say that enough because people that's where people struggle.
People get like you're you're taking something that's not the Bible.
No Bible is always first. But look at these things,
compare them to the Bible, and make up your decision
for yourself. This is where you need to be in
the Word. You need to be in the Bible so
that you're not tricked by something else that you're not,
you know, by by there are false texts out there.

(01:17:46):
You've talked about the Gnostic Gospels and things of this
nature where there's false texts out there, there's texts that
are very.

Speaker 3 (01:17:54):
And those are clear, you know. I mean because if
you have discernment, you know the Bible, you read that,
it's like that's a com lead opposite. Yeah, and makes
a lot of other stuff in the Bible not makes
sense or makes the Bible lying if we believe this,
and that's why me that's kind of like my discernment,
Like you said, that's the Bible is the uh, the

(01:18:15):
key to the standard. Yes. So it's like when I
read these stories, if it aligns with the Bible, doesn't
contradict it, and fills in gaps and gives us more
information on certain things that are vague in the Bible,
I'll keep it. But have I stumbled across some stuff
in some of these books that's like that don't make sense,
that don't sound right.

Speaker 8 (01:18:35):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
That's to me, that's the Holy Spirit. That's why it
says you you know, you need no teacher, you have
the Holy Spirit. So you read these texts and you
you pray for discernment, and your spirit will speak to you.
It will tell you you know, hey there's maybe something here,
no or red flag, No, throw that out, you know
what I mean. So that's that's how I do it.

(01:18:58):
You know, you pray for discernment. You read these things,
and the stuff that's real and fitsying perfectly, you're going
to know if you know your word and the stuff
that doesn't, it's going to stand out like a sore thumb.
It's going to be out of place, it's going to
contradict the Bible. And that's how you know, man, I

(01:19:20):
wish bird will tell you.

Speaker 7 (01:19:23):
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Well, everybody out there, I
hope you're enjoying us breaking down Genesis, going through the word.
I just I don't know. I feel compelled to keep
driving through and trying to learn as much as I
can myself. But I think that's sometimes a calling, right,
is to share these things with as many people as

(01:19:44):
we possibly can. That's what's there. It's trying to make
sense of the things that when you read it, you're like,
But that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to
dig in deep. We're trying to look at the word.
We're trying to look at all the different resources that
are out there testing me. It's the Bible and kind
of see what sticks, see where the truth is. And

(01:20:06):
I hope you guys will do that along with us.
So as always.

Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
Keep digging, baby.

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Speaker 7 (01:21:53):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (01:21:53):
Everybody, it's me and to relax, you are listening to
the Fringe Radio Network. I know I was gonna tell him, Hey,
do you have the app? It's the best way to
listen to the Fringe Radio Network. It's safe and you
don't have to log in to use it, and it
doesn't track you or trace you, and it sounds beautiful.

(01:22:17):
I know I was gonna tell him, how do you
get the app? Just go to fringe radionetwork dot com
right at the top of the page. I know, slippers,
we gotta keep cleaning these chimneys.