November 18, 2025 • 73 mins
This conversation delves into the quest for wholeness, exploring the integration of mind, body, and spirit as essential for true fulfillment. It discusses the importance of spiritual healing and energy work, the role of shadow work in personal growth, and the dangers of spiritual bypassing. The dialogue emphasizes the need for connection and the significance of understanding one's own consciousness in the healing process. In this conversation, the speakers explore the profound connection between nature and spiritual growth, emphasizing how natural cycles can aid in healing fears surrounding death. They discuss grounding techniques that foster a sense of safety and connection, the importance of establishing healthy spiritual boundaries, and the role of shadow work in addressing trauma. The dialogue also delves into the impact of collective consciousness on individual thought and the journey of finding one's spiritual path through exploration and self-discovery. Finally, they highlight integrative spiritual healing practices that empower individuals to address their spiritual imbalances.
Mary's website ; https://maryshutan.com/
Books: Amazon
Mary's website ; https://maryshutan.com/
Books: Amazon
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, everybody, it's me Cinderella Acts. You are listening to
the Fringe Radio Network. I know I was gonna tell them, Hey,
do you have the app? It's the best way to
listen to the Fringe Radio Network.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's safe and you don't have to log in to
use it, and it doesn't track you or trace you,
and it sounds beautiful.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I know I was gonna tell him, how do you
get the app?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Just go to Fringe radionetwork dot com right at the
top of the page.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I know, Slippers, we gotta keep cleaning these chimneys.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I have to believe in the world outside my own mind.
I have to believe in my actions, so I meaning,
even if I can't remember them, I have to believe
that one my eyes are closed, the world's still here.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
There is a difference between the wisdom that comes from
the body, a wisdom that comes from the intuition, and
a bunch of stuff that happens in our heads. Helping
people to actually feel into their bodies and to come
from that deeper place is a big deal, and it's
a big part of what I find myself, you know,
(01:27):
helping people to do.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
I believe the world's still here. Yeah, you know need
marriage termine ourselves tho we are.
Speaker 6 (01:55):
This is your nautical lantern on the dangerous seas of darkness.
Let's push from the placid shore of the status quo
and explore what's beyond the horizon. I am your host,
b T. And this is Truth and Shadow, your podcast
of the Supernatural. To be human is to seek wholeness,
(02:26):
a state of being where all aspects of life harmonize,
creating a sense of fulfillment and purpose. This journey towards
wholeness is not merely about physical health or intellectual achievement,
but about the deep integration of the mind, body, and spirit.
When we ignore one dimension, we risk and balance dissatisfaction
(02:49):
and a fragmented sense of self. From say a Youngian perspective,
achieving wholeness involves individuation, the process by which a person
into greats various parts of their psyche, including the conscious, unconscious,
and spiritual elements of their being. Carl Jung argued that
without this integration, a person remains divided within themselves, suffering
(03:13):
from an inner disharmony that can manifest in psychological distress,
existential anxiety, or a pervasive sense of meaninglessness. In the
same sense, Poe Benedict the sixteenth emphasized that the human
person is not merely a biological entity, but a spiritual
being with a deep yearning for truth, beauty, and communion
(03:35):
with God. He viewed the neglect of the spiritual dimension
as one of the greatest crises of modernity, leading to
a loss of identity and the erosion of moral and
social cohesion. By exploring these perspectives, we can better understand
why a holistic approach to life, one that nurtures the intellect,
(03:55):
tends to the body, and satisfies the soul, is not
just desirable but necessary for true being. Carl Jung's concept
of individuation is central to understanding why a holistic life
is vital. It's the process of becoming one's true self
by integrating various aspects of the psyche, like the ego,
(04:17):
the persona, the shadow, the anima, animus, and the self.
Young believe that failing to integrate these aspects leads to
psychological distress when we suppress our shadow we projected onto others,
resulting in blame, hostility, or an inability to take responsibility
for our own weaknesses. When we are too attached to
(04:40):
our persona, we become superficial, enslaved to societal expectations rather
than true to our deeper selves. Without the integration of
the animal or animus, we struggle with relationships, failing to
fully engage with our own emotional depth. Importantly, Young recognized
(05:03):
the spiritual aspect of this process. He saw religious experience
as a crucial part of individuation, a means by which
the individual connects with the transcendent and finds a greater
sense of meaning. His exploration of archetypes, myth and symbols
suggested that spirituality is not an optional aspect of life,
(05:23):
but a deep psychological necessity. When ignored, individuals feel lost, disconnected,
spiritually improverished, so they seek fulfillment materialism or empty distractions,
engaging compulsive behaviors. Young had also warned against a one
sided development. A person who only focused on intellectual growth
(05:47):
but neglects their emotional spiritual life will always struggle with imbalance. Likewise,
a purely physical existence centered only on the pleasures or
survival always lacks steps and purpose. True psychological health comes
from integrating all dimensions of ourselves into a cohesive whole.
(06:10):
For Young, wholeness is not about perfection, but about acceptance,
embracing all aspects of the self, both the light and
the dark, in order to live authentically. This requires self examination,
honest engagement with one's unconscious mind, and a willingness to
confront one's fears and limitations. And doing so, a person
(06:32):
moves forward toward a state of inner harmony where spiritual
and psychological needs are met in concert. Pope Benedict the
sixteenth approach the question of wholeness from a theological and
philosophical perspective, emphasizing that human beings are created for communion
(06:53):
with God. In his writings, he frequently warned against the
fragmentation of modern life, or faith is often separated from reason,
and material concerns overshadow spiritual ones. For Benedict, true fulfillment
cannot be found solely an intellectual achievement, economic success, or
even psychological balance. These things, while important, do not address
(07:16):
the deepest longing of the human heart, the desire for God,
for a truth that is not of our own making,
but given to us by God. He was particularly concerned
with the consequences of a society that neglects spirituality without
connection to the divine, He argued, people lose their sense
of purpose and their moral direction. They become vulnerable to relativism,
(07:41):
the belief that truth is subjective, shaped only by personal
opinion and social trends. This, he believed, leads to a
culture of confusion, where individuals struggle to discern right from wrong,
and where the pursuit of pleasure or power replaces the
pursuit of goodness and virtue. Venedict the sixteenth also spoke
(08:04):
of the dangers of secularism, but she saw as an
ideology that attempts to remove spirituality from public life while
they recognize the legitimacy of a pluristic society. He insisted
that faith and reason are not opposed, but complimentary. When
faith is ignored, reason itself becomes distorted, leading to a
(08:25):
world that values technological progress while neglecting moral wisdom. For Benedict,
the holistic person is one who integrates faith with reason,
body with soul, and action with contemplation. This integration is
not about retreating from the world, but engaging with it
more fully. Rooted in a deep spiritual foundation, a person
(08:49):
who nurtures their faith does not withdraw from life's challenges,
but approaches them with clarity courage, drawing from them a
wellspring of divine wisdom. One of Benedict's key ideas was
that love and truth are inseparable. In his encyclical Cartas
in Veretanate Charity and Truth, he argued that the authentic
(09:13):
love requires commitment to truth, just as true wisdom is
inseparable from love. To live holistically is to embrace both,
to seek truth while acting in love, to cultivate the
intellect while nurturing the spirit, and to engage with the
world while remaining anchored in the internal. Therefore, to live
(09:38):
holistically is to embrace the full spectrum of human experience, intellectual, emotional, physical,
and spiritual. Young taught us that true psychological health comes
from integrating the many parts of ourselves. Benedict the sixteenth
reminded us that faith is essential for a life of
purpose and meaning in a world that often pulls us
(09:59):
to war words fragmentation. Wholeness is an act of resistance.
It is a commitment to living deeply, embracing all dimensions
of life, and seeking not just personal fulfillment, but harmony
with God, with others, and with ourselves. Have you ever
(11:00):
felt a force moving within you that defies logic, a
stirring that suggests there is more to our existence that
meets the eye. Imagine glimpsing into the unseen, where healing
isn't just the body, but of the spirit. We're each
awakening as a chapter in a grander mystery. What if
the path to understanding these hidden realms was not guided
(11:23):
by conventional wisdom, but by those who walk the thin
line between our world and the other. Today we'll delve
into the experience of one who has navigated these currents,
shedding light on energy, transformation and the sacred, talking about
unseen forces that touch our lives. She is the mystic healer,
(11:44):
the veil piercer, and the seeker beyond. Welcome Mary to
the show.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Thank you for having me. Well.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
I found you my happen stance. I'm a follower of
another author from a public sure and your name. Titles
of your books were recommended in my Amazon and I said, Oh,
these look really interesting. Let me reach out and see
if Mary would like to come on the show and
(12:13):
talk about these with me, because it's stuff that I'm
interested in looking into. But for those who have not
heard of you, could you introduce yourself My.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
Name is Mary Shoe Tan or Mary Mueller Shoe Tan,
and my books I write a lot about the nature
of consciousness. So my best known books are about spiritual awakening.
But I have also been a teacher and practitioner for
about two decades now of spiritual healing, energy work, and
(12:47):
all sorts of different kinds of body work, including craniosacral
therapy as well as I have a master's degree in
Chinese medicine, which is basically acupuncture and herbology.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Yeah, that's it's quite a list of experiences. And when
we look at older forms of healing, reiki, acupuncture, I
mean compare it to our modern everyday lives. I wonder
if there is something that impacts our modern lifestyle with
(13:29):
these traditional therapies. Do you find that to be so?
Speaker 1 (13:34):
I do.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Yeah. Typically what happens in our world is that a
lot of times new thoughts in for example, psychology or
kind of associated realms like that like self help come about,
and what they really are is a sort of retread
(13:55):
or an understanding of, you know, deeper, what might be
shamanic or energy work principles. They've just been sort of
gussied up a bit with modern psychological terms or modern
considerations of the body.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
Yeah. Absolutely. And then within our our day to day
lived experience and the technology that we are swamped with,
how can we protect our energy in those environments that
feel well, lack of a better word, hostile or training.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
It is a big problem these days. We are so
connected via technology. You know, it's great to be able
to do things like this via video, but there's also,
from a spiritual perspective, an epidemic of loneliness, an epidemic
of isolation disconnection that is happening on multi levels. And
(15:02):
the best solution for that is always a really simple one,
which is connection, going into sign kind of some of
the basic principles of spiritual work. That is what I
consider every day with my clients and every day for myself.
On what level is their connection, on what level is
(15:24):
their disconnection? And that can be connection to self, connection
to other people, connection to the world, connection to spirit
or the divine, to the earth. And if we look
at where somebody is connected or disconnected, you can tell
(15:45):
a lot about their spiritual health as well as oftentimes
their emotional and physical health as well.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
You mentioned shaman, and I'm a fan of Carl Jung
Carl Young would sell shamanism as this deep engagement with
the unconscious mind right practice where you know, the shaman,
the shaman archetype can be a person or can be
(16:14):
an experience, but it's like this mediator between the conscious
world and these hidden realms. And it sounds like some
of the stuff that you work with with clients is
aimed at that.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
It is. There is definitely sometimes people treat psychology and
things like energy work or spirituality is completely separate realms,
like they're at odds with one another. But if you
start going into things like you know, depth psychology and
that sort of stuff, it is describing pretty much the
(16:52):
same experience just through a different lens. For example, my
latest book is on shadow work, and so that is
actually a very you know, spiritual concept. You know, it
has roots in tantric thought, in you know, very much
in spiritual thought as well. But in terms of if
(17:19):
we're going to define kind of shamanic work, because it
is sort of a tricky definition in some ways, my
definition for it and how I practice is all about
that connection. It is ensuring that I have a flow
of energy within myself but also connecting to and working
(17:44):
with things like the elements water, fire, earth, air, connecting
to the divine, the stars, and in certain cases connecting
with you know, different spirits or energies kind of depending
on what I'm doing or who I'm working with. And
(18:04):
so it has always been my claim or my goal
to work both myself as well as you know, the
students and clients that I have, and introduce them to
the fact that spiritual connection can be with the tree
in their front yard. It doesn't need to be in
(18:25):
some other culture. It doesn't need to be in some
other country.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
No.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I like that.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
Yeah, the idea of shadow work, that's really interesting to me.
I've been reading up on this idea of shadow work
and dealing with that part of the person, and it
sounds like the methods that are being used by yourself
is like the oh what does young call it? Is
(18:58):
it the wounded healer or the wise? The wise? Basically,
it's the person who is the found is a foundational
like a like a lightning rod, and they're the ones
that are able to collect and harness some of this
energy to help another person suffering from the dark knight
(19:19):
of the soul and help them address their own shadow
work is that does it sound about right?
Speaker 5 (19:29):
It is? That's a that's a good way of looking
at it. A big part of shadow work and shamanic
work is that typically somebody who is called to be
a spiritual healer or goes and engages it with this
work and depth does their own work, has their own experiences,
(19:52):
and goes through many initiations physically, emotionally and spiritually, and
so when they engage with people, it is from that
place of knowing, they know what it's like to experience,
you know, a certain imbalance in their system because they
(20:13):
have experienced that themselves, and you know, I've experienced that
myself and gone through that process. So in some ways
it very much is a wounded healer process. But in
the modern world we tend to think as the wounded
healer as somebody who suffers from one particular malady, and
(20:35):
in that way they can become more compassionate or help
others with it. But if we are talking about spiritual
work and spiritual initiations in particular, you can go through
all sorts of strange physical, emotional, spiritual breakdowns or experiences
(20:57):
that bring you into that place of knowing how to
heal something and kind of give you a sense of
empathy and connection to that to help others.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
That's what I was thinking about. I think the other
side of the coin was the wise elder, and I
think that's I think that's the two sides that Young
talks about within that particular archetype. And I find it
interesting that we have individuals who, like you said, they
could go through something like you know, usually somebody who's
(21:32):
suffered and recovered from, say alcoholism, is usually better equipped
to help others out of that addiction than somebody who isn't.
I mean, there's an experiential knowledge, an idea inside their
minds that seems to be tuned to helping people through
a trauma. If that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
It does, It makes perfect sense. And that's a great ample,
you know, is that so many really helpful drug counselors
alcohol counselors come from a place of going through programs,
going through their own addiction themselves, and so they can
know intimately what the other person is experiencing as well
(22:20):
as you know, how to sort of guide them through
the maze of a very thorty complex situation.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
And this involves individuals understanding how to be intentional right,
People who want to get better have to want to
get better, and so there's an intentionality, And I'm wondering
how important is that in in healing.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
In this aspect, it is incredibly important. However, what I
will say is that when people come to me, I
assume at least a part of them is ready to
engage with some sort of healing process, because otherwise they
(23:17):
wouldn't have contacted me or booked an appointment. That being said,
one person may come to me and they have a
huge amount of resistance or a huge amount of wounding
that really prevents them from doing much in a session.
But that same person in coming to somebody that can
(23:42):
see that and recognize that and isn't coming from a
place of judging them or trying to force them out
of that resistance, that is going to be immensely healing
for them, because that person may have experienced all sorts
of judgment or problem with past authority figures or mistrust
(24:04):
of humans or whatever is going on with them. And
so it is very true that one person may come
to me ready to take kind of like a little
baby step, and some people come to me and it's like,
let's heal your entire ancestral lineage, you know, sort of
session in yeah, basically, and those sessions can be wonderful
(24:28):
and intense and all of that sort of stuff, And
there's a lot of area in between. But a lot
of it really has to do with personal readiness. A
lot of it also has to do with this sort
of time and space they have in their lives, honestly
to be able to integrate it, to be able to
(24:49):
sort of mull over what happened, to process it on
multiple levels, and to come out of it in some way.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
A new in that work, there's there's the need to integrate, right,
to make that trauma or that darker, that shadow part
of ourselves integrated, right. I mean, if we don't, if
we don't address that aspect of ourselves, we will find
(25:18):
ourselves in these moments where we're in this fire or
flight and it's and it's not like it's not like
just instinct. It's like our trauma based past is setting
us up in a specific way to respond to situations. Right,
Like if if we had a trauma based you know,
(25:39):
when we're when we were children, where we found ourselves
having to defend our actions innocent though they were against
an oppressive paranal figure. We may find ourselves doing that
as adults, right, having to explain that and asking this
because I'm curious, how important is it for a person
(26:01):
to integrate that shadow into themselves so that they are
no longer reacting from that place of that shadow places.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
It's really important, and so part of healing is definitely recognition.
It's like, oh, I have anger and it is coming
from you know, when I was five years older or
something like that. And with spiritual work you can actually
(26:36):
go to that place with the person and help them
through that, either give them resources that they didn't have
at that age, or energetically take them out of that situation.
In more severe cases, what happens is that as we're
(26:57):
going through development, basically as we're grown gowing up, parts
of our energy can get basically stuck sort of frozen
at particular ages. And so part of what happens when
we re engage with that part that is sort of
stuck in time is that processing or integrating that all
(27:22):
of the emotions and nervous system responses that the person
could not experience at that age are going to come up. So,
for example, if somebody at five years old couldn't get angry,
because getting angry meant that they were going to be
punished by their parents. What will happen when they are
(27:44):
energetically out of that environment, no longer stuck there, is
that for a period of time, they might find themselves
really angry or having memories or strange dreams or even
physical sensations in their body because their body is processing that,
it is digesting that, and that can take a bit
(28:04):
of time. And so in my work, I am always
very clear with people that what happens in the session
is kind of midway, like they're likely already processing things
prior to the session, like after booking, they're probably already
thinking about it, preparing for it in some way, and
(28:24):
then the work is completed in whatever time we have together.
But after that I tell people that, you know, for
the next three to seven days, they may experience, you know,
particular symptoms because their body is still processing it and
still digesting it and getting to the point where they
(28:45):
can start to emerge from it. And depending on the healing,
that can actually take much much longer than those seven days.
But that tends to be kind of the acute time
when people notice, like oh, I felt really angry for
some reason, or I was crying for some reason, or
I kept on thinking about this one situation with my
(29:05):
friend or my mother, you know, kind of stuff like that.
Speaker 6 (29:10):
No, yeah, I understand. There's there's a principle of using
using the opposite energy. If we're in a place where
we are i'll say, closed off, angry and our reaction
is antisocial, we could read the mother, the what's the type,
(29:36):
the great mother or something like that. You reach out
for you reach out for the opposite energy. That's I'm
trying to get my brain back in the right catalog there.
If you're in this place where it's antisocial and you're
at you're acting out in an aggressive format format, you
(29:56):
want to train your mind and your your bo to
inject itself with the opposite energy. Right, So with any
social and aggression, you want to do maternal stuff. So
nurturing and helping out, giving yourself some nurture energy, right,
(30:17):
and helping that calm back down. I've heard that these
things help with addressing somebody's shadow self. And with your work,
is this is this something that you've actually like you've
done that.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
I have. My work is very individualized though, and part
of shadow work is actually becoming really comfortable with dark
emotions and experiences. So if somebody comes to me and
they're really depressed, I'm not going to be like, oh,
(30:58):
here are all the reasons to be joyful, Like let's
bring some joy in what And this can vary based
on the person, but what the shadow work response, or
what a shamanic response would be, would be to sit
with them in their isolation, sit with them and their anger.
(31:22):
Can they get even angrier? What would happen if they
were to express all of their anger, all of their disconnection?
What would happen if they were able to that inner
child was able to say or express anything it wanted to.
And a lot of times in this type of work
we bring resources in. So a lot of times it
(31:43):
can be the adult self or sometimes it can be
other spirits or ancestors or you know, somebody maybe they
made a relationship with later that you know, like a
friend or something they're friends with as an adult. But
a lot of times my work is actually allowing for
(32:03):
that part to fully express whatever it needs to. Well,
having supportive energy around that isn't telling that is telling
them that they are completely valid to feel whatever they
are feeling.
Speaker 6 (32:22):
The atmosphere is to give them the space needed to
engage in that emotion, a boundary basically right without restriction.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Without restriction. And also one of our you know, one
of the things you learn, and you know kind of
your first day of like if you were to take
a psychology class, is that one of our primary needs
is to be seen and heard. And so when somebody
is willing to do that to a part of themselves
that may feel invisible or wrong or all these sorts
(32:58):
of things that we as humans feel, is that there's
an incredible amount of healing that happens in that.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
And then one of the ways that you address that
is you teach people how to communicate with their consciousness.
Isn't that right?
Speaker 5 (33:14):
I do. One of my books is called The Body Deva.
It is what I base a lot of my work
around when I first started doing spiritual work. The kind
of idea around spiritual work is that kind of here
is this authority figure that is going to tell you
what your reality is or tell you what you need
(33:36):
to heal. And I found that that doesn't work in
the modern world because so many of us feel powerless disempowered.
You know, so many of us feel all sorts of
complex you know, things around the nature of power, the
nature of putting ourselves out there in a way to
(33:57):
receive support. So by helping people access their own bodies,
their own spirit and you know, kind of being a guide,
but really letting them and whatever is within them call
the shots, that gets people to a much different place
(34:21):
and to do some really extraordinary work where they are
very engaged in the process.
Speaker 6 (34:29):
And I would assume it would be really important for
someone to understand how to differentiate between these spiritual insights
and I guess what would be disassociation.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Yeah, there is a difference between the wisdom that comes
from the body, a wisdom that comes from the intuition,
and a bunch of stuff that happens in our heads. Basically,
helping people to actually feel into their bodies and to
come from that deeper place is a big deal, and
(35:10):
it's it's a big part of what I find myself,
you know, helping people to do.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
Yeah, I asked that because it's it's easy to use.
It's easy to use some spiritual practice practices as escapism.
I mean, that's that's just a thing we can find
ourselves deeper within whatever it is. If any kind of
spiritual tradition, we can basically become disassociated with reality to
(35:44):
the point where we've escaped. And I don't think that
that's a healthy way to navigate our world and address
I mean honestly, that that would that would cause another
wound in the shadows self. To be honest, it.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
Does, and it is a huge problem. We can kind
of neatly put it into the category of spiritual bypass,
which is a term of you know, using utilizing spirituality
to look away from the life, look away from the body.
And it's something a lot of people do is sort
(36:24):
of utilize spirituality to sort of perpetuate their wounding, you know.
And when somebody is willing to look towards their wounding instead,
they will find themselves more connected. If we're just utilizing
spirituality to disconnect, that disconnection isn't going to be healed
(36:48):
the person's I will say, effective spiritual healing results is
it results and changes in beliefs in daily reality, in
daily life and feelings of esteem about the self perspective
on reality. And if we are just sort of in that,
(37:13):
you know, kind of disconnected spirituality we just kind of
go deeper and deeper into it instead of healing anything.
Speaker 6 (37:23):
Yeah, we say, we just go down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
That's a great we do we go down a rabbit
hole and not not a fun rabbit hole.
Speaker 6 (37:32):
No, it's because it's because we separate ourselves, we cut
ourselves off from what is natural or in nature, I
guess so to speak, and I think that I think
that natural cycles play play a deepening effect in our
(37:55):
spiritual growth and our spiritual awareness. And what kinds of ways,
what kinds of ways can we tell people nature helps?
Natural cycles help.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
Well. First of all, there's, you know, a feeling of
connection and of being in the world that comes from
being in nature. Nature is one of our most obvious
gateways to the other So any sort of spiritual contact,
(38:35):
if we're looking for any sort of connection to spirit,
nature provides an excellent gateway and easy gateway to kind
of gain that sort of connection. The other thing I
would say on a deeper level, is that so many
(38:58):
of us carry this enormous fear of death that we've
made completely shadow, and so a lot of our lives
are sort of based in this fear and making shadow
our lack of acceptance of death. And so nature shows
(39:21):
us those cycles of death and rebirth in a way
that if we can connect to them, it can really
heal significant fear and anxiety that is within pretty much
most modern humans.
Speaker 6 (39:40):
A vast majority of people experience will experience death if
they are in an environment where they work, say in
a hospital or an old folks home. But I don't
think the vast majority of people are going to experience
death and the day you know, their data today lived experience.
(40:00):
I mean, it's not like the Middle Ages, where things
like the plague were commonplace and you would have entire
neighborhoods dropping left and right, and you had no escape
from the reality of death, right, I mean, it was
it was always around you. And I think that having
(40:23):
a respect for the quality of life and then of
course the quality of death would be important for a person. Yeah,
it is.
Speaker 5 (40:34):
You know, it's considered one of those things that you know,
if you were to look at pasts such as meditation
and stuff like that, is that it's frequently a topic
of here is something really deep you need to heal,
that you need to come into acceptance with. It's considered
one of those you know, advanced things for people to
(40:56):
really approach and sit with and okay with, and it
is incredibly transformative, you know, because again, just like you
were saying, like, unless somebody works in a hospital or
you know, has really engaged with death in some way,
(41:17):
it becomes this huge shadow for us. And there's a
reason why, you know, there are so many horror movies
out there, whether it's so many true crime podcasts. Right
Dateline has eight thousand episodes, it's because we're trying to
observe that shadow, but we're not yet ready to sort of,
(41:38):
you know, integrate it or make it a part of
ourselves yet.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
And the fascination with it, well, I find that something
that's probably helpful to begin to begin a process of
self healing would be grounding oneself. If we were to,
if we were to just give some people tools on
how to ground oneself simply, what would be the simplest
(42:05):
ways you could think of?
Speaker 5 (42:10):
I go over some of these in my books in
more detail, like The Spiritual Awakening Guide, But there are
a couple of enormously simple ways. The first is exercise
doesn't need to be you running a marathon. It can
just be you know, a walk through the block, you know,
(42:33):
that is incredibly grounding. Things like sitting and putting your
hands in the dirt. That was one of the first
shamanic ceremonies that I experienced, was just sitting and putting
my hands in the dirt, and we graduated into like
whispering and shouting into the dirt and stuff like that.
But if you are open and receptive, if you are
(42:57):
sitting on the earth, it will have created an energetic connection,
and even more so, like if you are actually like
sort of interacting with the earth. There are also other
energetic ways that I talk about in my books where
you can you know, pretend you're a tree growing roots,
(43:18):
or if you're in a seated position. A lot of
people aren't ready to energetically ground from their feet because
they're so far up in their heads. But you can
start to ground from the pelvis and from like a
kind of a seated position instead and do the same
(43:38):
sort of thing where you're imagining at first, but then
going into actually feeling the sensation of an energetic connection
from you know, from your genitals into the earth.
Speaker 6 (43:53):
Right, Yeah, that would be that would be basically doing
Kundalini work. Kind of the starting of that. Yeah, I
just think that you know an individual who wants to
feel a safe in a safer place, right the chaos
(44:15):
life is chaos, there's no getting around that fact. And
every once in a while we need to feel safe
in our environment. And I often I often tell people
that there's a reason why we want to hug another
you know, a loved one. There's a reason why we
want to hold our pet, a cat or dog. Another
(44:36):
one that's really common is out here in the country
we write horses and sometimes we just want to go
and a hug on a horse. And it's the oddest thing,
but there's you know, there's medical evidence that shows that
the the magnetic field of our body, and this is
(44:56):
really true with the horse, is that the horse is
the verus heartbeat, has this aura that extends like an
insane amount of distance from the horse, and once you're
in it, your body begins this really weird process of
calming down and becoming safe. And I use that as
(45:16):
an example because I've lived that, my wife's lived that
we were not doing so well. Depression maybe you know
it's wintertime, right, Depression is big time in the wintertime.
We just want to go and hug the horse and
just go bear back or something, and we're fixed right
(45:38):
that that grounding action has worked. We feel safe, and
I'm intrigued by that intimacy with like I started with
a excuse me, with a hug, you know, hugging a
loved one. You know, there's intimacy in that, and the
(45:58):
same with the pet and the animals. And the truth
is it doesn't just reset ourselves. We can actually reset
our animals too when they are in a place of
being unsafe by simply hugging or holding.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Yeah, those are all really great examples. You know, a
lot of people talk about how you know, life saving
their pets are, or going out into nature and how
healing it is, you know, even concepts like we call
forest bathing or earthing, you know, connecting in those sorts
(46:33):
of ways. And it all shows at its heart that
us going from a state of feeling disconnected to a
state of connection is so wonderful for us on so
many different levels. It lets us feel loved and worthwhile
(46:54):
and you know connected, and that very much lifts our spirits.
Speaker 6 (47:04):
Yeah, there's you know, I think that there's a need
to set up healthy spiritual boundaries too, right, that we
need to basically establish healthy perimeters. And I think that
(47:28):
there's so many people out in the world who have
divided their physical existence with their spiritual existence. And so
as one may put up physical barriers, you know, you're
like at two o'clock, I put my phone down, or gosh,
this person is toxic. I've blocked them on all the socials.
(47:50):
But those are all physical things. What are some of
the ways that we can set up healthy spiritual boundaries.
Speaker 5 (48:00):
It kind of depends, because you know, that can be
a really big topic in terms of setting up spiritual boundaries.
What I share with people is that the spirit realms
are a mirror of this realm, and so, for example,
(48:23):
if they are interacting with spirits, to treat them just
like you would with people. You know, you wouldn't want
a random person to show up in your bedroom at night,
same with a spirit of you know, even if it's
a spirit of a dead neighbor, you know, something like that.
(48:44):
And so giving people the tools so they can it
really is a balance because I want to offer people
tools to definitely have boundaries, but so many people are
so deeply afraid of any sort of spiritual or magical connection.
(49:07):
That they are creating all of these shields, all of
these protections for themselves, and then they are wondering why
they are so disconnected spiritually, and so looking at what
is disconnecting the person, you know, what sort of movies
(49:28):
or religious spiritual stuff, they family stuff they've sort of
taken on that has caused for them to be in
so much fear of the non physical is typically more
where I focus with people. That being said to sort
(49:49):
of answer your question, like, yeah, you can have solid
boundaries for example, with spirits and say, you know, for example,
I see you, I notice you get out of my space, right.
A lot of people truly want to help in a
spiritual capacity. But one of the things that happens is
just like just like you can't help every person that
(50:13):
you know, every physically alive person that you see on
the street, Like, you do not need to help every
you know, if you are able to sense spirits, you
know you do not need to help every spirit that
comes to you. And so those are some kind of
like the boundaries with spirits I talk about, And in
(50:36):
terms of boundaries energetically keeping yourself healthy, you know, the
best you can physically emotionally will do a lot for
spiritual boundaries as well.
Speaker 6 (50:51):
Yeah, there's there's this aspect I think of spiritual work
that involves other people, right, you know, if we were
to look at the shadow work, you know, if we
were if we were just to tie in something from
earlier where we talked about shadow and shadow trauma and
(51:12):
the connections that we may have had that develop whatever
this trauma was. There's these connections that we have with
other people. And I mean they could be spiritual, they
could be emotional, they don't have and even physical really,
(51:33):
but I think there's something to be said there about
how we engage with our trauma if it's caused from
an outside source, if that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (51:51):
Kind of you know, what I would say from a
shadow work perspective is that we do experience all of
these sort of trauma us and they shift our perspective.
You know, we close down, we shut down parts of ourselves,
and we then project those parts of ourselves onto other people.
(52:12):
So a lot of what is going on in the
world energetically and from a shadow perspective is like all
of our disowned, unhealed stuff that we're just trying to
kind of lob and other other people either people like
we're in contact with their celebrities or politicians and you know,
(52:33):
kind of bigger figures like that. So that's kind of
the if I were to help anybody to understand kind
of the what they can take away about how shadow
work can help them, it is that we can see
kind of our biggest wounds in other people because we
(52:56):
so shove them away from our own consciousness, right, And
so that's why shadow work is such a direct path
to healing. Whyat is difficult in some ways because you
have to be super honest with yourself, but very you know,
(53:16):
direct method of engaging with your own stuff that you've
sort of shoved out of your own subconscious onto other people.
Speaker 6 (53:30):
Yeah, that I guess that could involve trying to deal
with the collective consciousness. I guess we may be impacted
by thoughts that might not actually be our own, uh
specifically with within the view of you know, a Youngian psychology,
(53:53):
I guess. And how are we how will we navigate
how will we navigate the difference between our inner voice
and this you know, this chaos.
Speaker 5 (54:08):
It's a it's a good question. The best thing that
we can do is that what would be called that
individuation process is to get to know ourselves separate from
the conditioning we've received. And when we start to do that,
the sort of natural separation or questioning occurs where we're like, well,
(54:31):
I know what that celebrity thinks, I know what the
school I grew up with thinks, I know what my
family thinks. What do I actually think about this? And
that is a big part of shadow work and specifically
doing you know, kind of what we might term is
like communal shadow work, is that process of really discovering
(54:56):
the self, discovering authenticity within the self, and sort of
separating And my book I even talk about how, for example,
obviously I'm an author, but if you go to Amazon
or any review site for books or movies or anything
like that, if you read them after you have watched
(55:17):
a movie or read a book, it is likely going
to change your opinion on what you thought about the book.
And so this is one of the like kind of
sort of quote unquote easy tests that people can offer
to themselves, you know, of either you know, not engaging
at all with the you know, reviews and that sort
(55:40):
of stuff, or thinking about what you truly think about
that book or movie or music or album or whatever,
and then when you go to the reviews, not being
swayed by them, not having your your opinion changed by them. Right,
Obviously there's a bit of nuance there because some times
people can make good points and that sort of stuff,
(56:03):
but we are so easily swayed by what the collective things,
what collective figures politicians, celebrities, social media figures. I think,
you know, even in this age, you know, it used
to be advertising celebrities, and now it's more like, how
(56:25):
did that meme affect you? You know, how did that
social media personality? How did that reality star? You know,
how does that change you know? Who? Who we think
as an individual we are. I think it's also interesting
because if we are to talk about the difference between
(56:46):
kind of psychology and going to a shamanic or spiritual level.
On a shamanic or spiritual level, we would talk about
sicknesses in the community and how things like I'll pick
on some eaty easy ones, greed, narcissism, stuff like that, yeh,
(57:08):
can be communal sicknesses that then will be reflected in
that individual. And so in shamanic work, it is never
the fault of one individual for whatever physical, emotional, spiritual
illness they're experiencing, there is always an aspect in which
(57:30):
there is consideration about how that is reflected of family sickness,
communal sickness, like world sickness, you know that sort of stuff.
If that makes sense.
Speaker 6 (57:43):
Yeah, there's we throw these we throw these words around
like thinking, and we know that, we know that a
vast majority of individuals do what's known as passive thinking.
Right you say, hey, what do you think about the weather?
And you know, depending upon whether you like you like
(58:04):
sweater weather or you like flip flops and shorts, you're
gonna you're gonna say, well, it's cold outside and I
don't like it, or it's raining and I hate it,
or and these are all real passive and there's just
a value to teach somebody or to learn how to
do some deep critical thinking in it. And I think
(58:27):
that's being drawn out when we are honest in our
spiritual work, being able to address our thoughts and like
you were saying in the beginning, being able to say, hey,
I know, I know what my family thinks, I know
what my tradition thinks, I know what school wants me
(58:50):
to think. But what do I think, and I think
that's the hardest thing to address because once again, the
vast majority is going to go back to these passive
ideas and be influenced somewhere along the lines by I
don't know, some hero that they have. However, they would
(59:13):
have viewed something as how you may And so it's like,
you've got to create these people in your head and
have a fight with them, right, You got to you
got to develop like a multi personality thinking disorder and
address your thoughts and an attack and defend and find yourself.
And I think that I think there's a value in
integrating this thought pattern into our our lived experience. That
(59:38):
is missing.
Speaker 5 (59:42):
It is, you know, there is a process and energy
work and spiritual experience that you can get to a
place of directly knowing things right rather than relying on
outer sources. But we also have to consider, you know,
(01:00:02):
where people are. Is that For example, a lot of
people come to me and they want for me to
be the type of person that tells them what their
reality is. They do not want to critically think that
is what they are looking for. And so for people
willing to critically think to kind of do the work,
(01:00:23):
we have to recognize that that is a minority unfortunately,
because it does require effort. Is that effort worth it? Yes,
you know, of course it definitely leads at least to
a more interesting life, you know, rather than just living
out the same life that your parents did, or you know,
(01:00:45):
whatever is going on. But there needs to be a
willingness to engage and to consider all of these different
beliefs and words and thoughts of others in order to
become kind of an original thinker or a critical thinker.
(01:01:06):
We so tend to stay with thoughts that mimic the
sort of conditioning we already have, you know, rather than
engaging with thoughts and with thinkers that think kind of
outside of whatever box.
Speaker 6 (01:01:25):
We're in a series of boxes. You know, there's there's
the Russian dolls. I mean, this is a real thing.
People live within boxes within boxes within boxes, and it
takes a long time. As you would you would attest
to in your own work experience, that you have to
pull them out of each individual box along their journey,
and it takes work.
Speaker 5 (01:01:46):
It does, you know, some of the homework that I
give to people. It sounds so funny, but it isn't
going to that heavy place it is for I will
give them homework to consider, you know, as long as
they don't have food issues in their past, Like do
you like mustard? Or what kind of mustard do you like?
(01:02:07):
What kind of music do you like? Most of us
listen to music that is from our youth, and you
know that's great.
Speaker 4 (01:02:15):
But it is correct.
Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
What sort of music would thirty forty fifty sixty year
old you like? Now are you willing to listen to
different kinds of music and be like, oh I like
that or oh I don't like that? And so there
are all these different ways that aren't so like heavy,
aren't so like you know, creating an existential crisis, Like
(01:02:39):
we can really be like, you know what, I had
no idea what Green Goddess dressing was, but now I
really like it, you know, that's sure.
Speaker 6 (01:02:50):
Or we might not have ever ever had gray upon
as a kid, and now all of a sudden it's like,
oh this is actually really nice. Yeah, exactly, all those
things well, well, so we always, we always, every day
we can have an opportunity to start on a spiritual path.
And the question is how do we know what paths
(01:03:11):
we're being called on? What can we what can we
point to to help us understand where our particular journeys
leading us next.
Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
It's a tricky question because we are inundated with so
much information and so many paths out there. I will
say that we can do a little experimenting and you know, read,
read some books and really start to ask ourselves what
(01:03:49):
resonates with us, and that by that I mean what
interests us, but also what feels right to us. You know,
there could be a sense of palpable feeling of rightness
in our bodies when we come across knowledge that resonates
with us, that we're that we like, that we're ready for.
(01:04:11):
And so it is always a process of you know,
kind of trying a few things out and seeing with
which thing really resonates with you in sort of discarding
things that don't don't feel right to you. And so
that's generally kind of the best advice I can give
to anyone is actually read, of course, but do a
(01:04:35):
bit of the work and see how your body responds.
You know, see how what the effects of your life are.
You know, if you are on a right path, where
you are on a path that at the very least
will create you know, some interesting stuff in your life,
things will start to shift a bit, and that can
(01:04:55):
be a good indicator.
Speaker 6 (01:05:00):
Yeah, there's there's definitely something to be said about just
letting ourselves be silently drawn to or drawn by. I
guess the strange. The strange poll, right, if we have
something that's kind of strange and it's pulling us and
(01:05:23):
we're not really sure what it is, but sometimes just
letting that guide us a little bit can help, I
don't know, read a book that we might not have
ever read before. We might pick up something that is
outside of our on our faith tradition that can actually
strengthen the faith tradition that we have.
Speaker 5 (01:05:46):
Now. Yeah, you know, I will say, you know, back
in my day, it was a little bit easier. I
had kind of it's kind of a funny story. I
don't know if I've ever shared this before, but I
had a spiritual relationship with thrift stores, and so I'd
go into thrift stores and on their bookshelves would often
be like some occult books and you know, or some
(01:06:06):
magical books or some books about meditation that I would
be like, oh, and they'd be like, buy me. And
you know, that's a lot of how as a teenager,
I started to become you know, interested in some of
these topics today. You know, these days, it can be
somebody just keeping their ears open and then you know,
(01:06:27):
maybe they see a podcast about something, and then a
friend mentions the same topic to them, and then somebody else,
you know, mentions something in the you know, a teacher
in that area, and so all of those, if we
keep our eyes and ears open, can kind of lead
us to discovering some great books and great teachers and
(01:06:52):
all that sort of great paths that are out there.
Speaker 6 (01:06:56):
Yeah, the story just reminds you when I was younger,
you know, one of the and I still have this book,
The Spiritual Teachings of Roumy. You know, it's a poetry
book and I and I still turn to it and
it still gives me a little bit of you know,
nuggets of gold, and they're there. Well, uh, Mary, as
(01:07:20):
we as.
Speaker 7 (01:07:21):
We wrap up, I'd like to give you the opportunity
to tell listeners where they could where they could find
more about you. You know, you talk about offering counseling sessions,
not just your books. I'll include your books in the show,
you know, the links to your books in the show notes.
But what I would like is what do you what's
(01:07:41):
your mission statement when it comes to your counseling, and
what's that about and see if that's a.
Speaker 6 (01:07:47):
Tool that listeners may be interested in.
Speaker 5 (01:07:51):
So people can find me at maryshoe tan dot com.
I do have the books that you mentioned. I also
am a teach, so people can check out my workshops.
In terms of my individual appointments at this time, I
focus on spiritual healing, so I work with people who
(01:08:14):
are ready to, you know, do a deep dive in themselves.
I work with a lot of people who have experienced
spiritual awakening or strange spiritual experiences to help them integrate
them But a lot of times my work with people
is doing pretty intensive spiritual healing work with them where
(01:08:37):
we go into the body, where we get a sense
of what their spiritual energetic imbalances on whatever level it
is in our child, ancestral, past life, you know, societal,
all that sort of stuff, and then we work together
(01:08:58):
to resolve it. I always make clear that my work
is always non forceful and that it is really empowering
for the person experiencing it because they play a big
role in the process.
Speaker 6 (01:09:18):
Fantastic, Well, thank you very much for coming on my
show and talking to me today. I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 5 (01:09:24):
Yeah, thank you, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 6 (01:09:52):
Thank you for listening. This is a free podcast based
upon the value for value model. If you find value
in this or any episode, so you can return that
value by liking the show, subscribing to this channel, leaving
a review, or sharing with a friend on your social
media accounts. You can also donate on my website. Thank
you again. This is BT for Truth and Shadow Podcast.
(01:10:16):
You are the light in the darkness.
Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
Hi, everybody, it's me Cinderella Acts. You are listening to
the Fringe Radio Network. I know I was gonna tell him, Hey,
do you have the app? It's the best way to
listen to the Fringe Radio Network.
Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
It's safe and you don't have to log in to
use it, and it doesn't track you or trace you,
and it sounds beautiful.
Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
I know I was gonna tell him, How do you
get the app?
Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
Just go to Fringe radionetwork dot com right at the
top of the page.
Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
I know, slippers, we gotta keep cleaning these chimneys.
Hi, everybody, it's me Cinderella Acts. You are listening to
the Fringe Radio Network. I know I was gonna tell them, Hey,
do you have the app? It's the best way to
listen to the Fringe Radio Network.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's safe and you don't have to log in to
use it, and it doesn't track you or trace you,
and it sounds beautiful.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I know I was gonna tell him, how do you
get the app?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Just go to Fringe radionetwork dot com right at the
top of the page.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I know, Slippers, we gotta keep cleaning these chimneys.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I have to believe in the world outside my own mind.
I have to believe in my actions, so I meaning,
even if I can't remember them, I have to believe
that one my eyes are closed, the world's still here.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
There is a difference between the wisdom that comes from
the body, a wisdom that comes from the intuition, and
a bunch of stuff that happens in our heads. Helping
people to actually feel into their bodies and to come
from that deeper place is a big deal, and it's
a big part of what I find myself, you know,
(01:27):
helping people to do.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
I believe the world's still here. Yeah, you know need
marriage termine ourselves tho we are.
Speaker 6 (01:55):
This is your nautical lantern on the dangerous seas of darkness.
Let's push from the placid shore of the status quo
and explore what's beyond the horizon. I am your host,
b T. And this is Truth and Shadow, your podcast
of the Supernatural. To be human is to seek wholeness,
(02:26):
a state of being where all aspects of life harmonize,
creating a sense of fulfillment and purpose. This journey towards
wholeness is not merely about physical health or intellectual achievement,
but about the deep integration of the mind, body, and spirit.
When we ignore one dimension, we risk and balance dissatisfaction
(02:49):
and a fragmented sense of self. From say a Youngian perspective,
achieving wholeness involves individuation, the process by which a person
into greats various parts of their psyche, including the conscious, unconscious,
and spiritual elements of their being. Carl Jung argued that
without this integration, a person remains divided within themselves, suffering
(03:13):
from an inner disharmony that can manifest in psychological distress,
existential anxiety, or a pervasive sense of meaninglessness. In the
same sense, Poe Benedict the sixteenth emphasized that the human
person is not merely a biological entity, but a spiritual
being with a deep yearning for truth, beauty, and communion
(03:35):
with God. He viewed the neglect of the spiritual dimension
as one of the greatest crises of modernity, leading to
a loss of identity and the erosion of moral and
social cohesion. By exploring these perspectives, we can better understand
why a holistic approach to life, one that nurtures the intellect,
(03:55):
tends to the body, and satisfies the soul, is not
just desirable but necessary for true being. Carl Jung's concept
of individuation is central to understanding why a holistic life
is vital. It's the process of becoming one's true self
by integrating various aspects of the psyche, like the ego,
(04:17):
the persona, the shadow, the anima, animus, and the self.
Young believe that failing to integrate these aspects leads to
psychological distress when we suppress our shadow we projected onto others,
resulting in blame, hostility, or an inability to take responsibility
for our own weaknesses. When we are too attached to
(04:40):
our persona, we become superficial, enslaved to societal expectations rather
than true to our deeper selves. Without the integration of
the animal or animus, we struggle with relationships, failing to
fully engage with our own emotional depth. Importantly, Young recognized
(05:03):
the spiritual aspect of this process. He saw religious experience
as a crucial part of individuation, a means by which
the individual connects with the transcendent and finds a greater
sense of meaning. His exploration of archetypes, myth and symbols
suggested that spirituality is not an optional aspect of life,
(05:23):
but a deep psychological necessity. When ignored, individuals feel lost, disconnected,
spiritually improverished, so they seek fulfillment materialism or empty distractions,
engaging compulsive behaviors. Young had also warned against a one
sided development. A person who only focused on intellectual growth
(05:47):
but neglects their emotional spiritual life will always struggle with imbalance. Likewise,
a purely physical existence centered only on the pleasures or
survival always lacks steps and purpose. True psychological health comes
from integrating all dimensions of ourselves into a cohesive whole.
(06:10):
For Young, wholeness is not about perfection, but about acceptance,
embracing all aspects of the self, both the light and
the dark, in order to live authentically. This requires self examination,
honest engagement with one's unconscious mind, and a willingness to
confront one's fears and limitations. And doing so, a person
(06:32):
moves forward toward a state of inner harmony where spiritual
and psychological needs are met in concert. Pope Benedict the
sixteenth approach the question of wholeness from a theological and
philosophical perspective, emphasizing that human beings are created for communion
(06:53):
with God. In his writings, he frequently warned against the
fragmentation of modern life, or faith is often separated from reason,
and material concerns overshadow spiritual ones. For Benedict, true fulfillment
cannot be found solely an intellectual achievement, economic success, or
even psychological balance. These things, while important, do not address
(07:16):
the deepest longing of the human heart, the desire for God,
for a truth that is not of our own making,
but given to us by God. He was particularly concerned
with the consequences of a society that neglects spirituality without
connection to the divine, He argued, people lose their sense
of purpose and their moral direction. They become vulnerable to relativism,
(07:41):
the belief that truth is subjective, shaped only by personal
opinion and social trends. This, he believed, leads to a
culture of confusion, where individuals struggle to discern right from wrong,
and where the pursuit of pleasure or power replaces the
pursuit of goodness and virtue. Venedict the sixteenth also spoke
(08:04):
of the dangers of secularism, but she saw as an
ideology that attempts to remove spirituality from public life while
they recognize the legitimacy of a pluristic society. He insisted
that faith and reason are not opposed, but complimentary. When
faith is ignored, reason itself becomes distorted, leading to a
(08:25):
world that values technological progress while neglecting moral wisdom. For Benedict,
the holistic person is one who integrates faith with reason,
body with soul, and action with contemplation. This integration is
not about retreating from the world, but engaging with it
more fully. Rooted in a deep spiritual foundation, a person
(08:49):
who nurtures their faith does not withdraw from life's challenges,
but approaches them with clarity courage, drawing from them a
wellspring of divine wisdom. One of Benedict's key ideas was
that love and truth are inseparable. In his encyclical Cartas
in Veretanate Charity and Truth, he argued that the authentic
(09:13):
love requires commitment to truth, just as true wisdom is
inseparable from love. To live holistically is to embrace both,
to seek truth while acting in love, to cultivate the
intellect while nurturing the spirit, and to engage with the
world while remaining anchored in the internal. Therefore, to live
(09:38):
holistically is to embrace the full spectrum of human experience, intellectual, emotional, physical,
and spiritual. Young taught us that true psychological health comes
from integrating the many parts of ourselves. Benedict the sixteenth
reminded us that faith is essential for a life of
purpose and meaning in a world that often pulls us
(09:59):
to war words fragmentation. Wholeness is an act of resistance.
It is a commitment to living deeply, embracing all dimensions
of life, and seeking not just personal fulfillment, but harmony
with God, with others, and with ourselves. Have you ever
(11:00):
felt a force moving within you that defies logic, a
stirring that suggests there is more to our existence that
meets the eye. Imagine glimpsing into the unseen, where healing
isn't just the body, but of the spirit. We're each
awakening as a chapter in a grander mystery. What if
the path to understanding these hidden realms was not guided
(11:23):
by conventional wisdom, but by those who walk the thin
line between our world and the other. Today we'll delve
into the experience of one who has navigated these currents,
shedding light on energy, transformation and the sacred, talking about
unseen forces that touch our lives. She is the mystic healer,
(11:44):
the veil piercer, and the seeker beyond. Welcome Mary to
the show.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Thank you for having me. Well.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
I found you my happen stance. I'm a follower of
another author from a public sure and your name. Titles
of your books were recommended in my Amazon and I said, Oh,
these look really interesting. Let me reach out and see
if Mary would like to come on the show and
(12:13):
talk about these with me, because it's stuff that I'm
interested in looking into. But for those who have not
heard of you, could you introduce yourself My.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
Name is Mary Shoe Tan or Mary Mueller Shoe Tan,
and my books I write a lot about the nature
of consciousness. So my best known books are about spiritual awakening.
But I have also been a teacher and practitioner for
about two decades now of spiritual healing, energy work, and
(12:47):
all sorts of different kinds of body work, including craniosacral
therapy as well as I have a master's degree in
Chinese medicine, which is basically acupuncture and herbology.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Yeah, that's it's quite a list of experiences. And when
we look at older forms of healing, reiki, acupuncture, I
mean compare it to our modern everyday lives. I wonder
if there is something that impacts our modern lifestyle with
(13:29):
these traditional therapies. Do you find that to be so?
Speaker 1 (13:34):
I do.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Yeah. Typically what happens in our world is that a
lot of times new thoughts in for example, psychology or
kind of associated realms like that like self help come about,
and what they really are is a sort of retread
(13:55):
or an understanding of, you know, deeper, what might be
shamanic or energy work principles. They've just been sort of
gussied up a bit with modern psychological terms or modern
considerations of the body.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
Yeah. Absolutely. And then within our our day to day
lived experience and the technology that we are swamped with,
how can we protect our energy in those environments that
feel well, lack of a better word, hostile or training.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
It is a big problem these days. We are so
connected via technology. You know, it's great to be able
to do things like this via video, but there's also,
from a spiritual perspective, an epidemic of loneliness, an epidemic
of isolation disconnection that is happening on multi levels. And
(15:02):
the best solution for that is always a really simple one,
which is connection, going into sign kind of some of
the basic principles of spiritual work. That is what I
consider every day with my clients and every day for myself.
On what level is their connection, on what level is
(15:24):
their disconnection? And that can be connection to self, connection
to other people, connection to the world, connection to spirit
or the divine, to the earth. And if we look
at where somebody is connected or disconnected, you can tell
(15:45):
a lot about their spiritual health as well as oftentimes
their emotional and physical health as well.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
You mentioned shaman, and I'm a fan of Carl Jung
Carl Young would sell shamanism as this deep engagement with
the unconscious mind right practice where you know, the shaman,
the shaman archetype can be a person or can be
(16:14):
an experience, but it's like this mediator between the conscious
world and these hidden realms. And it sounds like some
of the stuff that you work with with clients is
aimed at that.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
It is. There is definitely sometimes people treat psychology and
things like energy work or spirituality is completely separate realms,
like they're at odds with one another. But if you
start going into things like you know, depth psychology and
that sort of stuff, it is describing pretty much the
(16:52):
same experience just through a different lens. For example, my
latest book is on shadow work, and so that is
actually a very you know, spiritual concept. You know, it
has roots in tantric thought, in you know, very much
in spiritual thought as well. But in terms of if
(17:19):
we're going to define kind of shamanic work, because it
is sort of a tricky definition in some ways, my
definition for it and how I practice is all about
that connection. It is ensuring that I have a flow
of energy within myself but also connecting to and working
(17:44):
with things like the elements water, fire, earth, air, connecting
to the divine, the stars, and in certain cases connecting
with you know, different spirits or energies kind of depending
on what I'm doing or who I'm working with. And
(18:04):
so it has always been my claim or my goal
to work both myself as well as you know, the
students and clients that I have, and introduce them to
the fact that spiritual connection can be with the tree
in their front yard. It doesn't need to be in
(18:25):
some other culture. It doesn't need to be in some
other country.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
No.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I like that.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
Yeah, the idea of shadow work, that's really interesting to me.
I've been reading up on this idea of shadow work
and dealing with that part of the person, and it
sounds like the methods that are being used by yourself
is like the oh what does young call it? Is
(18:58):
it the wounded healer or the wise? The wise? Basically,
it's the person who is the found is a foundational
like a like a lightning rod, and they're the ones
that are able to collect and harness some of this
energy to help another person suffering from the dark knight
(19:19):
of the soul and help them address their own shadow
work is that does it sound about right?
Speaker 5 (19:29):
It is? That's a that's a good way of looking
at it. A big part of shadow work and shamanic
work is that typically somebody who is called to be
a spiritual healer or goes and engages it with this
work and depth does their own work, has their own experiences,
(19:52):
and goes through many initiations physically, emotionally and spiritually, and
so when they engage with people, it is from that
place of knowing, they know what it's like to experience,
you know, a certain imbalance in their system because they
(20:13):
have experienced that themselves, and you know, I've experienced that
myself and gone through that process. So in some ways
it very much is a wounded healer process. But in
the modern world we tend to think as the wounded
healer as somebody who suffers from one particular malady, and
(20:35):
in that way they can become more compassionate or help
others with it. But if we are talking about spiritual
work and spiritual initiations in particular, you can go through
all sorts of strange physical, emotional, spiritual breakdowns or experiences
(20:57):
that bring you into that place of knowing how to
heal something and kind of give you a sense of
empathy and connection to that to help others.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
That's what I was thinking about. I think the other
side of the coin was the wise elder, and I
think that's I think that's the two sides that Young
talks about within that particular archetype. And I find it
interesting that we have individuals who, like you said, they
could go through something like you know, usually somebody who's
(21:32):
suffered and recovered from, say alcoholism, is usually better equipped
to help others out of that addiction than somebody who isn't.
I mean, there's an experiential knowledge, an idea inside their
minds that seems to be tuned to helping people through
a trauma. If that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
It does, It makes perfect sense. And that's a great ample,
you know, is that so many really helpful drug counselors
alcohol counselors come from a place of going through programs,
going through their own addiction themselves, and so they can
know intimately what the other person is experiencing as well
(22:20):
as you know, how to sort of guide them through
the maze of a very thorty complex situation.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
And this involves individuals understanding how to be intentional right,
People who want to get better have to want to
get better, and so there's an intentionality, And I'm wondering
how important is that in in healing.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
In this aspect, it is incredibly important. However, what I
will say is that when people come to me, I
assume at least a part of them is ready to
engage with some sort of healing process, because otherwise they
(23:17):
wouldn't have contacted me or booked an appointment. That being said,
one person may come to me and they have a
huge amount of resistance or a huge amount of wounding
that really prevents them from doing much in a session.
But that same person in coming to somebody that can
(23:42):
see that and recognize that and isn't coming from a
place of judging them or trying to force them out
of that resistance, that is going to be immensely healing
for them, because that person may have experienced all sorts
of judgment or problem with past authority figures or mistrust
(24:04):
of humans or whatever is going on with them. And
so it is very true that one person may come
to me ready to take kind of like a little
baby step, and some people come to me and it's like,
let's heal your entire ancestral lineage, you know, sort of
session in yeah, basically, and those sessions can be wonderful
(24:28):
and intense and all of that sort of stuff, And
there's a lot of area in between. But a lot
of it really has to do with personal readiness. A
lot of it also has to do with this sort
of time and space they have in their lives, honestly
to be able to integrate it, to be able to
(24:49):
sort of mull over what happened, to process it on
multiple levels, and to come out of it in some way.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
A new in that work, there's there's the need to integrate, right,
to make that trauma or that darker, that shadow part
of ourselves integrated, right. I mean, if we don't, if
we don't address that aspect of ourselves, we will find
(25:18):
ourselves in these moments where we're in this fire or
flight and it's and it's not like it's not like
just instinct. It's like our trauma based past is setting
us up in a specific way to respond to situations. Right,
Like if if we had a trauma based you know,
(25:39):
when we're when we were children, where we found ourselves
having to defend our actions innocent though they were against
an oppressive paranal figure. We may find ourselves doing that
as adults, right, having to explain that and asking this
because I'm curious, how important is it for a person
(26:01):
to integrate that shadow into themselves so that they are
no longer reacting from that place of that shadow places.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
It's really important, and so part of healing is definitely recognition.
It's like, oh, I have anger and it is coming
from you know, when I was five years older or
something like that. And with spiritual work you can actually
(26:36):
go to that place with the person and help them
through that, either give them resources that they didn't have
at that age, or energetically take them out of that situation.
In more severe cases, what happens is that as we're
(26:57):
going through development, basically as we're grown gowing up, parts
of our energy can get basically stuck sort of frozen
at particular ages. And so part of what happens when
we re engage with that part that is sort of
stuck in time is that processing or integrating that all
(27:22):
of the emotions and nervous system responses that the person
could not experience at that age are going to come up. So,
for example, if somebody at five years old couldn't get angry,
because getting angry meant that they were going to be
punished by their parents. What will happen when they are
(27:44):
energetically out of that environment, no longer stuck there, is
that for a period of time, they might find themselves
really angry or having memories or strange dreams or even
physical sensations in their body because their body is processing that,
it is digesting that, and that can take a bit
(28:04):
of time. And so in my work, I am always
very clear with people that what happens in the session
is kind of midway, like they're likely already processing things
prior to the session, like after booking, they're probably already
thinking about it, preparing for it in some way, and
(28:24):
then the work is completed in whatever time we have together.
But after that I tell people that, you know, for
the next three to seven days, they may experience, you know,
particular symptoms because their body is still processing it and
still digesting it and getting to the point where they
(28:45):
can start to emerge from it. And depending on the healing,
that can actually take much much longer than those seven days.
But that tends to be kind of the acute time
when people notice, like oh, I felt really angry for
some reason, or I was crying for some reason, or
I kept on thinking about this one situation with my
(29:05):
friend or my mother, you know, kind of stuff like that.
Speaker 6 (29:10):
No, yeah, I understand. There's there's a principle of using
using the opposite energy. If we're in a place where
we are i'll say, closed off, angry and our reaction
is antisocial, we could read the mother, the what's the type,
(29:36):
the great mother or something like that. You reach out
for you reach out for the opposite energy. That's I'm
trying to get my brain back in the right catalog there.
If you're in this place where it's antisocial and you're
at you're acting out in an aggressive format format, you
(29:56):
want to train your mind and your your bo to
inject itself with the opposite energy. Right, So with any
social and aggression, you want to do maternal stuff. So
nurturing and helping out, giving yourself some nurture energy, right,
(30:17):
and helping that calm back down. I've heard that these
things help with addressing somebody's shadow self. And with your work,
is this is this something that you've actually like you've
done that.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
I have. My work is very individualized though, and part
of shadow work is actually becoming really comfortable with dark
emotions and experiences. So if somebody comes to me and
they're really depressed, I'm not going to be like, oh,
(30:58):
here are all the reasons to be joyful, Like let's
bring some joy in what And this can vary based
on the person, but what the shadow work response, or
what a shamanic response would be, would be to sit
with them in their isolation, sit with them and their anger.
(31:22):
Can they get even angrier? What would happen if they
were to express all of their anger, all of their disconnection?
What would happen if they were able to that inner
child was able to say or express anything it wanted to.
And a lot of times in this type of work
we bring resources in. So a lot of times it
(31:43):
can be the adult self or sometimes it can be
other spirits or ancestors or you know, somebody maybe they
made a relationship with later that you know, like a
friend or something they're friends with as an adult. But
a lot of times my work is actually allowing for
(32:03):
that part to fully express whatever it needs to. Well,
having supportive energy around that isn't telling that is telling
them that they are completely valid to feel whatever they
are feeling.
Speaker 6 (32:22):
The atmosphere is to give them the space needed to
engage in that emotion, a boundary basically right without restriction.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Without restriction. And also one of our you know, one
of the things you learn, and you know kind of
your first day of like if you were to take
a psychology class, is that one of our primary needs
is to be seen and heard. And so when somebody
is willing to do that to a part of themselves
that may feel invisible or wrong or all these sorts
(32:58):
of things that we as humans feel, is that there's
an incredible amount of healing that happens in that.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
And then one of the ways that you address that
is you teach people how to communicate with their consciousness.
Isn't that right?
Speaker 5 (33:14):
I do. One of my books is called The Body Deva.
It is what I base a lot of my work
around when I first started doing spiritual work. The kind
of idea around spiritual work is that kind of here
is this authority figure that is going to tell you
what your reality is or tell you what you need
(33:36):
to heal. And I found that that doesn't work in
the modern world because so many of us feel powerless disempowered.
You know, so many of us feel all sorts of
complex you know, things around the nature of power, the
nature of putting ourselves out there in a way to
(33:57):
receive support. So by helping people access their own bodies,
their own spirit and you know, kind of being a guide,
but really letting them and whatever is within them call
the shots, that gets people to a much different place
(34:21):
and to do some really extraordinary work where they are
very engaged in the process.
Speaker 6 (34:29):
And I would assume it would be really important for
someone to understand how to differentiate between these spiritual insights
and I guess what would be disassociation.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Yeah, there is a difference between the wisdom that comes
from the body, a wisdom that comes from the intuition,
and a bunch of stuff that happens in our heads. Basically,
helping people to actually feel into their bodies and to
come from that deeper place is a big deal, and
(35:10):
it's it's a big part of what I find myself,
you know, helping people to do.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
Yeah, I asked that because it's it's easy to use.
It's easy to use some spiritual practice practices as escapism.
I mean, that's that's just a thing we can find
ourselves deeper within whatever it is. If any kind of
spiritual tradition, we can basically become disassociated with reality to
(35:44):
the point where we've escaped. And I don't think that
that's a healthy way to navigate our world and address
I mean honestly, that that would that would cause another
wound in the shadows self. To be honest, it.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
Does, and it is a huge problem. We can kind
of neatly put it into the category of spiritual bypass,
which is a term of you know, using utilizing spirituality
to look away from the life, look away from the body.
And it's something a lot of people do is sort
(36:24):
of utilize spirituality to sort of perpetuate their wounding, you know.
And when somebody is willing to look towards their wounding instead,
they will find themselves more connected. If we're just utilizing
spirituality to disconnect, that disconnection isn't going to be healed
(36:48):
the person's I will say, effective spiritual healing results is
it results and changes in beliefs in daily reality, in
daily life and feelings of esteem about the self perspective
on reality. And if we are just sort of in that,
(37:13):
you know, kind of disconnected spirituality we just kind of
go deeper and deeper into it instead of healing anything.
Speaker 6 (37:23):
Yeah, we say, we just go down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
That's a great we do we go down a rabbit
hole and not not a fun rabbit hole.
Speaker 6 (37:32):
No, it's because it's because we separate ourselves, we cut
ourselves off from what is natural or in nature, I
guess so to speak, and I think that I think
that natural cycles play play a deepening effect in our
(37:55):
spiritual growth and our spiritual awareness. And what kinds of ways,
what kinds of ways can we tell people nature helps?
Natural cycles help.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
Well. First of all, there's, you know, a feeling of
connection and of being in the world that comes from
being in nature. Nature is one of our most obvious
gateways to the other So any sort of spiritual contact,
(38:35):
if we're looking for any sort of connection to spirit,
nature provides an excellent gateway and easy gateway to kind
of gain that sort of connection. The other thing I
would say on a deeper level, is that so many
(38:58):
of us carry this enormous fear of death that we've
made completely shadow, and so a lot of our lives
are sort of based in this fear and making shadow
our lack of acceptance of death. And so nature shows
(39:21):
us those cycles of death and rebirth in a way
that if we can connect to them, it can really
heal significant fear and anxiety that is within pretty much
most modern humans.
Speaker 6 (39:40):
A vast majority of people experience will experience death if
they are in an environment where they work, say in
a hospital or an old folks home. But I don't
think the vast majority of people are going to experience
death and the day you know, their data today lived experience.
(40:00):
I mean, it's not like the Middle Ages, where things
like the plague were commonplace and you would have entire
neighborhoods dropping left and right, and you had no escape
from the reality of death, right, I mean, it was
it was always around you. And I think that having
(40:23):
a respect for the quality of life and then of
course the quality of death would be important for a person. Yeah,
it is.
Speaker 5 (40:34):
You know, it's considered one of those things that you know,
if you were to look at pasts such as meditation
and stuff like that, is that it's frequently a topic
of here is something really deep you need to heal,
that you need to come into acceptance with. It's considered
one of those you know, advanced things for people to
(40:56):
really approach and sit with and okay with, and it
is incredibly transformative, you know, because again, just like you
were saying, like, unless somebody works in a hospital or
you know, has really engaged with death in some way,
(41:17):
it becomes this huge shadow for us. And there's a
reason why, you know, there are so many horror movies
out there, whether it's so many true crime podcasts. Right
Dateline has eight thousand episodes, it's because we're trying to
observe that shadow, but we're not yet ready to sort of,
(41:38):
you know, integrate it or make it a part of
ourselves yet.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
And the fascination with it, well, I find that something
that's probably helpful to begin to begin a process of
self healing would be grounding oneself. If we were to,
if we were to just give some people tools on
how to ground oneself simply, what would be the simplest
(42:05):
ways you could think of?
Speaker 5 (42:10):
I go over some of these in my books in
more detail, like The Spiritual Awakening Guide, But there are
a couple of enormously simple ways. The first is exercise
doesn't need to be you running a marathon. It can
just be you know, a walk through the block, you know,
(42:33):
that is incredibly grounding. Things like sitting and putting your
hands in the dirt. That was one of the first
shamanic ceremonies that I experienced, was just sitting and putting
my hands in the dirt, and we graduated into like
whispering and shouting into the dirt and stuff like that.
But if you are open and receptive, if you are
(42:57):
sitting on the earth, it will have created an energetic connection,
and even more so, like if you are actually like
sort of interacting with the earth. There are also other
energetic ways that I talk about in my books where
you can you know, pretend you're a tree growing roots,
(43:18):
or if you're in a seated position. A lot of
people aren't ready to energetically ground from their feet because
they're so far up in their heads. But you can
start to ground from the pelvis and from like a
kind of a seated position instead and do the same
(43:38):
sort of thing where you're imagining at first, but then
going into actually feeling the sensation of an energetic connection
from you know, from your genitals into the earth.
Speaker 6 (43:53):
Right, Yeah, that would be that would be basically doing
Kundalini work. Kind of the starting of that. Yeah, I
just think that you know an individual who wants to
feel a safe in a safer place, right the chaos
(44:15):
life is chaos, there's no getting around that fact. And
every once in a while we need to feel safe
in our environment. And I often I often tell people
that there's a reason why we want to hug another
you know, a loved one. There's a reason why we
want to hold our pet, a cat or dog. Another
(44:36):
one that's really common is out here in the country
we write horses and sometimes we just want to go
and a hug on a horse. And it's the oddest thing,
but there's you know, there's medical evidence that shows that
the the magnetic field of our body, and this is
(44:56):
really true with the horse, is that the horse is
the verus heartbeat, has this aura that extends like an
insane amount of distance from the horse, and once you're
in it, your body begins this really weird process of
calming down and becoming safe. And I use that as
(45:16):
an example because I've lived that, my wife's lived that
we were not doing so well. Depression maybe you know
it's wintertime, right, Depression is big time in the wintertime.
We just want to go and hug the horse and
just go bear back or something, and we're fixed right
(45:38):
that that grounding action has worked. We feel safe, and
I'm intrigued by that intimacy with like I started with
a excuse me, with a hug, you know, hugging a
loved one. You know, there's intimacy in that, and the
(45:58):
same with the pet and the animals. And the truth
is it doesn't just reset ourselves. We can actually reset
our animals too when they are in a place of
being unsafe by simply hugging or holding.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Yeah, those are all really great examples. You know, a
lot of people talk about how you know, life saving
their pets are, or going out into nature and how
healing it is, you know, even concepts like we call
forest bathing or earthing, you know, connecting in those sorts
(46:33):
of ways. And it all shows at its heart that
us going from a state of feeling disconnected to a
state of connection is so wonderful for us on so
many different levels. It lets us feel loved and worthwhile
(46:54):
and you know connected, and that very much lifts our spirits.
Speaker 6 (47:04):
Yeah, there's you know, I think that there's a need
to set up healthy spiritual boundaries too, right, that we
need to basically establish healthy perimeters. And I think that
(47:28):
there's so many people out in the world who have
divided their physical existence with their spiritual existence. And so
as one may put up physical barriers, you know, you're
like at two o'clock, I put my phone down, or gosh,
this person is toxic. I've blocked them on all the socials.
(47:50):
But those are all physical things. What are some of
the ways that we can set up healthy spiritual boundaries.
Speaker 5 (48:00):
It kind of depends, because you know, that can be
a really big topic in terms of setting up spiritual boundaries.
What I share with people is that the spirit realms
are a mirror of this realm, and so, for example,
(48:23):
if they are interacting with spirits, to treat them just
like you would with people. You know, you wouldn't want
a random person to show up in your bedroom at night,
same with a spirit of you know, even if it's
a spirit of a dead neighbor, you know, something like that.
(48:44):
And so giving people the tools so they can it
really is a balance because I want to offer people
tools to definitely have boundaries, but so many people are
so deeply afraid of any sort of spiritual or magical connection.
(49:07):
That they are creating all of these shields, all of
these protections for themselves, and then they are wondering why
they are so disconnected spiritually, and so looking at what
is disconnecting the person, you know, what sort of movies
(49:28):
or religious spiritual stuff, they family stuff they've sort of
taken on that has caused for them to be in
so much fear of the non physical is typically more
where I focus with people. That being said to sort
(49:49):
of answer your question, like, yeah, you can have solid
boundaries for example, with spirits and say, you know, for example,
I see you, I notice you get out of my space, right.
A lot of people truly want to help in a
spiritual capacity. But one of the things that happens is
just like just like you can't help every person that
(50:13):
you know, every physically alive person that you see on
the street, Like, you do not need to help every
you know, if you are able to sense spirits, you
know you do not need to help every spirit that
comes to you. And so those are some kind of
like the boundaries with spirits I talk about, And in
(50:36):
terms of boundaries energetically keeping yourself healthy, you know, the
best you can physically emotionally will do a lot for
spiritual boundaries as well.
Speaker 6 (50:51):
Yeah, there's there's this aspect I think of spiritual work
that involves other people, right, you know, if we were
to look at the shadow work, you know, if we
were if we were just to tie in something from
earlier where we talked about shadow and shadow trauma and
(51:12):
the connections that we may have had that develop whatever
this trauma was. There's these connections that we have with
other people. And I mean they could be spiritual, they
could be emotional, they don't have and even physical really,
(51:33):
but I think there's something to be said there about
how we engage with our trauma if it's caused from
an outside source, if that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (51:51):
Kind of you know, what I would say from a
shadow work perspective is that we do experience all of
these sort of trauma us and they shift our perspective.
You know, we close down, we shut down parts of ourselves,
and we then project those parts of ourselves onto other people.
(52:12):
So a lot of what is going on in the
world energetically and from a shadow perspective is like all
of our disowned, unhealed stuff that we're just trying to
kind of lob and other other people either people like
we're in contact with their celebrities or politicians and you know,
(52:33):
kind of bigger figures like that. So that's kind of
the if I were to help anybody to understand kind
of the what they can take away about how shadow
work can help them, it is that we can see
kind of our biggest wounds in other people because we
(52:56):
so shove them away from our own consciousness, right, And
so that's why shadow work is such a direct path
to healing. Whyat is difficult in some ways because you
have to be super honest with yourself, but very you know,
(53:16):
direct method of engaging with your own stuff that you've
sort of shoved out of your own subconscious onto other people.
Speaker 6 (53:30):
Yeah, that I guess that could involve trying to deal
with the collective consciousness. I guess we may be impacted
by thoughts that might not actually be our own, uh
specifically with within the view of you know, a Youngian psychology,
(53:53):
I guess. And how are we how will we navigate
how will we navigate the difference between our inner voice
and this you know, this chaos.
Speaker 5 (54:08):
It's a it's a good question. The best thing that
we can do is that what would be called that
individuation process is to get to know ourselves separate from
the conditioning we've received. And when we start to do that,
the sort of natural separation or questioning occurs where we're like, well,
(54:31):
I know what that celebrity thinks, I know what the
school I grew up with thinks, I know what my
family thinks. What do I actually think about this? And
that is a big part of shadow work and specifically
doing you know, kind of what we might term is
like communal shadow work, is that process of really discovering
(54:56):
the self, discovering authenticity within the self, and sort of
separating And my book I even talk about how, for example,
obviously I'm an author, but if you go to Amazon
or any review site for books or movies or anything
like that, if you read them after you have watched
(55:17):
a movie or read a book, it is likely going
to change your opinion on what you thought about the book.
And so this is one of the like kind of
sort of quote unquote easy tests that people can offer
to themselves, you know, of either you know, not engaging
at all with the you know, reviews and that sort
(55:40):
of stuff, or thinking about what you truly think about
that book or movie or music or album or whatever,
and then when you go to the reviews, not being
swayed by them, not having your your opinion changed by them. Right,
Obviously there's a bit of nuance there because some times
people can make good points and that sort of stuff,
(56:03):
but we are so easily swayed by what the collective things,
what collective figures politicians, celebrities, social media figures. I think,
you know, even in this age, you know, it used
to be advertising celebrities, and now it's more like, how
(56:25):
did that meme affect you? You know, how did that
social media personality? How did that reality star? You know,
how does that change you know? Who? Who we think
as an individual we are. I think it's also interesting
because if we are to talk about the difference between
(56:46):
kind of psychology and going to a shamanic or spiritual level.
On a shamanic or spiritual level, we would talk about
sicknesses in the community and how things like I'll pick
on some eaty easy ones, greed, narcissism, stuff like that, yeh,
(57:08):
can be communal sicknesses that then will be reflected in
that individual. And so in shamanic work, it is never
the fault of one individual for whatever physical, emotional, spiritual
illness they're experiencing, there is always an aspect in which
(57:30):
there is consideration about how that is reflected of family sickness,
communal sickness, like world sickness, you know that sort of stuff.
If that makes sense.
Speaker 6 (57:43):
Yeah, there's we throw these we throw these words around
like thinking, and we know that, we know that a
vast majority of individuals do what's known as passive thinking.
Right you say, hey, what do you think about the weather?
And you know, depending upon whether you like you like
(58:04):
sweater weather or you like flip flops and shorts, you're
gonna you're gonna say, well, it's cold outside and I
don't like it, or it's raining and I hate it,
or and these are all real passive and there's just
a value to teach somebody or to learn how to
do some deep critical thinking in it. And I think
(58:27):
that's being drawn out when we are honest in our
spiritual work, being able to address our thoughts and like
you were saying in the beginning, being able to say, hey,
I know, I know what my family thinks, I know
what my tradition thinks, I know what school wants me
(58:50):
to think. But what do I think, and I think
that's the hardest thing to address because once again, the
vast majority is going to go back to these passive
ideas and be influenced somewhere along the lines by I
don't know, some hero that they have. However, they would
(59:13):
have viewed something as how you may And so it's like,
you've got to create these people in your head and
have a fight with them, right, You got to you
got to develop like a multi personality thinking disorder and
address your thoughts and an attack and defend and find yourself.
And I think that I think there's a value in
integrating this thought pattern into our our lived experience. That
(59:38):
is missing.
Speaker 5 (59:42):
It is, you know, there is a process and energy
work and spiritual experience that you can get to a
place of directly knowing things right rather than relying on
outer sources. But we also have to consider, you know,
(01:00:02):
where people are. Is that For example, a lot of
people come to me and they want for me to
be the type of person that tells them what their
reality is. They do not want to critically think that
is what they are looking for. And so for people
willing to critically think to kind of do the work,
(01:00:23):
we have to recognize that that is a minority unfortunately,
because it does require effort. Is that effort worth it? Yes,
you know, of course it definitely leads at least to
a more interesting life, you know, rather than just living
out the same life that your parents did, or you know,
(01:00:45):
whatever is going on. But there needs to be a
willingness to engage and to consider all of these different
beliefs and words and thoughts of others in order to
become kind of an original thinker or a critical thinker.
(01:01:06):
We so tend to stay with thoughts that mimic the
sort of conditioning we already have, you know, rather than
engaging with thoughts and with thinkers that think kind of
outside of whatever box.
Speaker 6 (01:01:25):
We're in a series of boxes. You know, there's there's
the Russian dolls. I mean, this is a real thing.
People live within boxes within boxes within boxes, and it
takes a long time. As you would you would attest
to in your own work experience, that you have to
pull them out of each individual box along their journey,
and it takes work.
Speaker 5 (01:01:46):
It does, you know, some of the homework that I
give to people. It sounds so funny, but it isn't
going to that heavy place it is for I will
give them homework to consider, you know, as long as
they don't have food issues in their past, Like do
you like mustard? Or what kind of mustard do you like?
(01:02:07):
What kind of music do you like? Most of us
listen to music that is from our youth, and you
know that's great.
Speaker 4 (01:02:15):
But it is correct.
Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
What sort of music would thirty forty fifty sixty year
old you like? Now are you willing to listen to
different kinds of music and be like, oh I like
that or oh I don't like that? And so there
are all these different ways that aren't so like heavy,
aren't so like you know, creating an existential crisis, Like
(01:02:39):
we can really be like, you know what, I had
no idea what Green Goddess dressing was, but now I
really like it, you know, that's sure.
Speaker 6 (01:02:50):
Or we might not have ever ever had gray upon
as a kid, and now all of a sudden it's like,
oh this is actually really nice. Yeah, exactly, all those
things well, well, so we always, we always, every day
we can have an opportunity to start on a spiritual path.
And the question is how do we know what paths
(01:03:11):
we're being called on? What can we what can we
point to to help us understand where our particular journeys
leading us next.
Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
It's a tricky question because we are inundated with so
much information and so many paths out there. I will
say that we can do a little experimenting and you know, read,
read some books and really start to ask ourselves what
(01:03:49):
resonates with us, and that by that I mean what
interests us, but also what feels right to us. You know,
there could be a sense of palpable feeling of rightness
in our bodies when we come across knowledge that resonates
with us, that we're that we like, that we're ready for.
(01:04:11):
And so it is always a process of you know,
kind of trying a few things out and seeing with
which thing really resonates with you in sort of discarding
things that don't don't feel right to you. And so
that's generally kind of the best advice I can give
to anyone is actually read, of course, but do a
(01:04:35):
bit of the work and see how your body responds.
You know, see how what the effects of your life are.
You know, if you are on a right path, where
you are on a path that at the very least
will create you know, some interesting stuff in your life,
things will start to shift a bit, and that can
(01:04:55):
be a good indicator.
Speaker 6 (01:05:00):
Yeah, there's there's definitely something to be said about just
letting ourselves be silently drawn to or drawn by. I
guess the strange. The strange poll, right, if we have
something that's kind of strange and it's pulling us and
(01:05:23):
we're not really sure what it is, but sometimes just
letting that guide us a little bit can help, I
don't know, read a book that we might not have
ever read before. We might pick up something that is
outside of our on our faith tradition that can actually
strengthen the faith tradition that we have.
Speaker 5 (01:05:46):
Now. Yeah, you know, I will say, you know, back
in my day, it was a little bit easier. I
had kind of it's kind of a funny story. I
don't know if I've ever shared this before, but I
had a spiritual relationship with thrift stores, and so I'd
go into thrift stores and on their bookshelves would often
be like some occult books and you know, or some
(01:06:06):
magical books or some books about meditation that I would
be like, oh, and they'd be like, buy me. And
you know, that's a lot of how as a teenager,
I started to become you know, interested in some of
these topics today. You know, these days, it can be
somebody just keeping their ears open and then you know,
(01:06:27):
maybe they see a podcast about something, and then a
friend mentions the same topic to them, and then somebody else,
you know, mentions something in the you know, a teacher
in that area, and so all of those, if we
keep our eyes and ears open, can kind of lead
us to discovering some great books and great teachers and
(01:06:52):
all that sort of great paths that are out there.
Speaker 6 (01:06:56):
Yeah, the story just reminds you when I was younger,
you know, one of the and I still have this book,
The Spiritual Teachings of Roumy. You know, it's a poetry
book and I and I still turn to it and
it still gives me a little bit of you know,
nuggets of gold, and they're there. Well, uh, Mary, as
(01:07:20):
we as.
Speaker 7 (01:07:21):
We wrap up, I'd like to give you the opportunity
to tell listeners where they could where they could find
more about you. You know, you talk about offering counseling sessions,
not just your books. I'll include your books in the show,
you know, the links to your books in the show notes.
But what I would like is what do you what's
(01:07:41):
your mission statement when it comes to your counseling, and
what's that about and see if that's a.
Speaker 6 (01:07:47):
Tool that listeners may be interested in.
Speaker 5 (01:07:51):
So people can find me at maryshoe tan dot com.
I do have the books that you mentioned. I also
am a teach, so people can check out my workshops.
In terms of my individual appointments at this time, I
focus on spiritual healing, so I work with people who
(01:08:14):
are ready to, you know, do a deep dive in themselves.
I work with a lot of people who have experienced
spiritual awakening or strange spiritual experiences to help them integrate
them But a lot of times my work with people
is doing pretty intensive spiritual healing work with them where
(01:08:37):
we go into the body, where we get a sense
of what their spiritual energetic imbalances on whatever level it
is in our child, ancestral, past life, you know, societal,
all that sort of stuff, and then we work together
(01:08:58):
to resolve it. I always make clear that my work
is always non forceful and that it is really empowering
for the person experiencing it because they play a big
role in the process.
Speaker 6 (01:09:18):
Fantastic, Well, thank you very much for coming on my
show and talking to me today. I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 5 (01:09:24):
Yeah, thank you, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 6 (01:09:52):
Thank you for listening. This is a free podcast based
upon the value for value model. If you find value
in this or any episode, so you can return that
value by liking the show, subscribing to this channel, leaving
a review, or sharing with a friend on your social
media accounts. You can also donate on my website. Thank
you again. This is BT for Truth and Shadow Podcast.
(01:10:16):
You are the light in the darkness.
Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
Hi, everybody, it's me Cinderella Acts. You are listening to
the Fringe Radio Network. I know I was gonna tell him, Hey,
do you have the app? It's the best way to
listen to the Fringe Radio Network.
Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
It's safe and you don't have to log in to
use it, and it doesn't track you or trace you,
and it sounds beautiful.
Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
I know I was gonna tell him, How do you
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Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
Just go to Fringe radionetwork dot com right at the
top of the page.
Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
I know, slippers, we gotta keep cleaning these chimneys.
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