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August 13, 2025 81 mins
Kyle delivers his latest presentation on Gobekli Tepe and the wider "Tas Tepeler Civilization" topic. How far back do these ancient megaliths really go? The evidence we have cannot actually tell us, because all of the dating is based on the material found around the megaliths. And is there a connection between the people who inhabited these t-pillar sites and the area of Giza in Egypt? 
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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
You are listening to the Fringe Radio Network franradionetwork dot com.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
There we go, and welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, boys
and girls, Angles and demons, muscles and surface. This is
Brothers of the Serfing podcast coming to you live from
the ten by ten by ten tangent Cube of Science,
where we are nestled amongst the dusty bones of an
ancient seabed hi at top of the erwards plateau. I
am Russ Allen, brother of the Serpent, number one, Kyle Allen,

(01:02):
brother of the Serpent. So, uh, harvest is starting. The
winery is still not completed. We are going to like
so last year we took a long break during harvest,
but this year we're gonna try not to do that.
I can't promise the show every week, but we're gonna try.

(01:23):
We were processing grapes today and here we are. But
today actually Kyle is going to give the presentation that
he gave at the New York event. Yes, what's the
what would you say? The topic is? I've described it
in the discord as like go Beckley Tepe connections to Egypt. Yeah, Bass,

(01:44):
it's a it's an analysis of stone working technology from
multiple different lenses, but but basically focused on Go Beckley
Tepe and Egypt mostly Go Beckley Tepe. Uh, there's the well,
I won't give it away. I was gonna say, there's
some cool stuff. What else? Do we have anything else?

(02:11):
Before you get started, we can deal with it on
the back end. Okay, yeah, yeah, let's just try and
let's get to it. Pillars of Civilization. Okay, let me
get the share screen going here. Let's see first, I
only have so many hot keys that work while I
have this share screen up for some reason. All right,

(02:35):
here we go, Pillars of Civilization. So, yes, this is
a technology looking at the technological advancement in the deep
Pass which we're always talking about here. And this is really,
like I was saying, a comparison of different technologies at

(02:55):
Go Beckley Tepe and the broader taj Tepelai civilization, from
construction of architecture to the manufacturing of artifacts. And I'd
like to illustrate how different levels of technological advancement might
be overlooked or misinterpreted by archaeology, and because of that

(03:16):
we could be missing some of the evidence for a
lost civilization, or at least a lost period of great
technological advancement in our past. So this is go Beckley
Tepe before it was excavated. It's a massive tell on
the top of a hill in southern or southeastern Turkey.

(03:38):
It's pretty much farmland because it is completely covered in
midden layers, which are rich in nutrient. But as you
can see all around it is just the barren rock hilltop,
which is what all the other hilltops around it look like.
So it's unique in that sense. It's got this massive

(04:01):
mound on top of it, and inside this mound is
a very complex system of multiple layers of architecture built
on top of one another, and every space, every room,
every enclosure was completely filled in with midden or the

(04:23):
occupation layers of human activity. Midden is basically the detritus
and the refuse of people living in this area. So
it's like fifteen meters deep at the deepest of some
of the numbers that I've seen, and the entire tell
is like three hundred meters in diameter. So it's just

(04:46):
a very complex situation going on here. And as you
can see, like all these different layers of rock wall
construction all around, and then of course the megaliths at
the very bottom and then the rock cut or you
know the rock cut or bedrock cutting areas down at
the bottom here. So the dating of the site really

(05:11):
began with typological or relative dating, which is essentially the
matching of specific attributes of lithic points like projectile points
or tools. So when they got to the bottom layers
of goebecley Tepe, they found certain types of arrowheads, and
because of the styles of those arrowheads, they knew that

(05:35):
they were roughly twelve thousand years old because those arrowheads
had also been excavated in many other sites all across
the levant and had associated carbon dates with them because
they were found in strata or layers of midden that
had carbon datable materials with those arrowheads repeated over and over,

(05:57):
so very well established dates for the arrowhead. So when
they got to the bottom boom, they were like, these
arrowheads are twelve thousand years old. Now, they hadn't connected
the architecture to those arrowheads or those dates yet, but
eventually they did get carbon fourteen dating from organic materials
from the mortar of the rock walls. So that actually

(06:21):
was the first time that the archaeologists were able to
place the architecture itself at that date of twelve thousand
years ago or roughly twelve thousand years ago with the
lithics that they had already known the dates of. Now,
what they never did was they never dated the megalithic

(06:42):
architecture or the bedrock cutting to those dates. And as
much as they tried, there is no finite way or
definite way or a high confidence way to date those megaliths.
So they're relying on justice these carbon fourteen dates from
the organic materials of the rock walls. So who are

(07:05):
we talking about? These people are the Pre Pottery Neolithic
And this period that we're looking at really is the
Pre Pottery Neolithic A, which was from roughly eleven thousand,
six hundred to ten thousand, five hundred calibrated years before present.
Now those numbers I've seen multiple different ones. They shift

(07:27):
here and there depending on what paper you're looking at,
But this is I think a pretty decent guess at it.
And this is roughly an eleven hundred year period, the
Pre Pottery Neolithic A. Then we have the Early Pre
Pottery Neolithic B A roughly four hundred year period, and
then the Middle PPNB, which is about six hundred years,
so all together we're looking at roughly two thousand years. Basically,

(07:52):
this period was when all of the major architectural construction
was considered by archaeology to be going on at go
Beckley Tepe. Two thousand year period. So the pre Pottery
Neolithic was identify in the nineteen forties and they've been
studying continuously for fifty years prior to the discovery of

(08:16):
go Beckley Tepe by Klaus Schmidt, and the pre Pottery
and Neolithic had well established dates from stratigraphic layers and
all these other sites that they had been excavated in.
They were well known for rock and mortar construction, and
they had well known lithic types, well known arrowheads, well
known projectile points. But there were there was no bedrock

(08:38):
shaping and no megalithic construction in any of these other
sites that had previously established the pre Pottery Neolithic, which
I find very interesting. So let's take a closer look
at This is Building D at go Beckley Tepe. This
is the most famous enclosure. Everyone. They always show pictures

(09:00):
of this. These are the two central pillars here and
then its surrounded you. These big black dashes are the
pillars that encircle the enclosure. And the color map here
is of the carbon dating of the rock wall. So
all of these different colors are shading different rock wall constructions.
And this dark one here you can see this is

(09:22):
PP and A. It's way out here. That's the very
first rock wall, so it would have looked something like this.
This rock wall would have been built roughly twelve thousand
years ago. This is the oldest rock wall, and it's
just really strange to look at this building or this
construction and say this is a design like this was
the design of the builders. In fact, is that is

(09:48):
not what this is. And even archaeologists today even say
that these pillars that encircle the central pillars have been
shifted over time. So the second iteration of rock wall
was this light blue the Pre Pottery Neolithic A to
Early ppn B transition period, so this is almost one
thousand years later, this second iteration of rock wall was built,

(10:10):
and you can see in some cases it's going around
these edges of these pillars, around the sides of these pillars.
Now next we have Early pp and B one, so
now we're further dividing the early pre Pottery Neolithic B
They built like another bench like structure going around the pillars,

(10:33):
surrounding the bases of these pillars, and then finally you
have this early pre pottery Neolithic B two, a little
bit of additional work around some of the pillars, probably
just some repair work. So basically we're looking at a
whole bunch of construction over almost a two thousand year period,

(10:54):
just in this enclosure. And I think probably most likely
what we would have really been looking at initially would
have been something more circular like this in terms of
the surrounding pillars. Now, this is not a perfect circle,
but I'm just trying to position this. This is just
a suggestion like it would have been a larger circle,
it would have been more circular and somewhat centered around

(11:17):
these pillars. And I kind of tried to line this
circle up with this outer original rock wall somewhat. But
as you can see, the pillars have been shifted inward
from this original position or suggested original position, and archaeologists
agree that that is exactly what's happened over the years

(11:37):
that they They say that the buildings have were under
continual construction for almost two thousand years. So the way
the archaeologists talk about it, they're like they were still
building it two thousand years later before when they finally
abandoned the site. But I think that we've seen tons
of reuse and occupation by later civilizations as we've traveled

(11:58):
through Egypt and other areas is and this is what
this looks like to me, that these people occupied the
site and instead what they were doing is repairing it
when something destroyed it. So on the north side here
you can see how the wall has been flattened, and
what's interesting about that is that the slope of the
hill is actually coming from the north. So it makes

(12:22):
sense because these enclosures are so deep in this tell
that any piled up miden materials or retaining walls or
other architectural elements up here to the north were much
higher above this enclosure, and during an earthquake or a
flood or something, they would have collapsed in to the enclosure,

(12:45):
And that I think is why this northern wall has
been flattened and the pillars moved so much further from
what would have been a circular enclosure. Then on the
southern wall, so we'll take a quick look at Building C.
This is right next to building d at Quebeckley TEP
and we see a very similar thing, but this one
interestingly real quick you can see the dark blue rock

(13:06):
wall out here. This is PPNA way out here, this
dark blue this is the original rock wall that's twelve
thousand years old that they say was the first iteration
of construction around this enclosure. Now, what I find interesting
about this one is that there are these outlier pillars,
and some of these are absolutely enormous, and they're buried
almost all the way to the top. Some of them,

(13:29):
like this one on the lower right, almost completely buried
still in later architecture. They have not been excavated because
it's literally architecture that is surrounding them. But these I
think may represent something more like what would have been
the original circular enclosure. And over time, as you had

(13:51):
slope slides and earthquakes and flooding in this area and
rock walls failed and collapsed, possibly I think the pre
Neolithic UH definitely reconstructed these areas and probably ended up
dragging these other pillars that they couldn't stand up back
here in these areas towards an inner circle. They built

(14:12):
another bench and you can look at this this orange
color here. This is early ppn B middle PP and
B transition period. This is the final stage of construction
at quebecley Tepe before it was abandoned forever. And I
just I find that very compelling. These these outer pillars

(14:32):
here suggesting a position of the original circular enclosure. Once
again we have this flattened northern part of the circle,
and again the slope is coming from the north, so
you still have some of these southern pillars that are
far out in the in the reaches. Maybe there's still
a couple there, so I don't know if that's the case,

(14:54):
but it's just seems to me that the slope slides
coming from the north would have knocked down more stuff
in And you can just see that this wall is
so close to the central pillars, whereas the southern wall
is much further away, So I think you just have
more erosion coming from the north side. So after looking
at all that, it's finally clear why these artistic renditions

(15:19):
of go Beckley Tepe just don't make any sense, Like
this is not a building design right here, Like yeah,
you go in here and then you can't get in,
and then you go over there and you can't and
then you have to go nope, can't get through that.
This makes no sense because these rock walls literally represent
two thousand years of construction. So this design over here

(15:40):
on the left where they're putting the building together, no,
I mean, this whole thing is just nope, there's no way.
That's not what's going on. And to take a closer look,
you can see clearly that these rock walls are covering
up artwork on the pillars. They're literally designed to just
hold these pillars in place there. I don't think that

(16:03):
they are a part of the original idea of this
of the megalithic architecture and rock cut aspects of Go
Backley Tepe. So now we're going to go through this
is building C again and I want to go through
in detail some of these elements. Now look at this.
This pillar up here is literally broken, the bottom half

(16:24):
is broken off and it is standing on rock wall construction.
So this is obviously not original. This is a broken
pillar that has been moved in and you can see
behind it there that massive pillar in the back. This
is one of the ones we were looking at. That's
an outlier pillar. Another one here, So these are much
further away, But if you look closer at the rock

(16:44):
wall here, you can see clear discontinuity in the rock
wall construction all the way around this pillar, as though
an alcove was prepared for this pillar to be brought
in and stood back up, and then the stones were
stacked until its height matched roughly the height of the
other standing stones. Again, you see it over here, a

(17:05):
broken pillar. The bottom is broken off and it's standing
on cobblestones, and if you look at the rock wall
all around it, there is a clear discontinuity in the
rock wall construction style, suggesting again that an alcove was
prepared for this pillar to be stood back up during
a restoration effort. Again we see it here. This might

(17:26):
be a whole pillar, but it's possible also that this
one may have been broken just right at the base.
It is also surrounded by rock walls, and you can
see on the right there is a discontinuity again in
that rock wall construction, so suggesting an alcove prepared for
placing this pillar. So if the pre pottery Neolithic was

(17:50):
capable of making these pillars, creating these pillars, moving these pillars,
standing them up, why were they why were they surrounding
them in rock when they were capable of doing this,
which is this is the central pillar which is seeded
directly into the bedrock. That raised platform there is part

(18:11):
of the bedrock, and there's a hole excavated into that bedrock,
and the pillar is free standing. So why would they
be doing all of this rock wall work around these
pillars if they were capable of doing this. It just
looks like two different industries, as to steal a phrase
from ben a tale of two industries. And I think

(18:35):
that the pre Pottery Neolithic was doing their best to
restore and maintain this site. Okay, so yes, what I
am saying is the pre Pottery Neolithic definitely occupied the site.
They are responsible for accumulation of all of that midden,

(18:56):
the massive amount of mid material that ultimately buried go
factly Tepe is pre Pottery Neolithic midden. It has all
of their refuse, that has all of their tools, it
has everything about their lives. In all of the other
pre Pottery Neolithic sites, it's the same. They are responsible
for that midden. They're also i think responsible for renovations

(19:18):
and repairs of the site, and they're responsible for building
rock walls, and they made projectile points, which is the
next point. These are the projectile points of the pre
Pottery Neolithic. And uh, these things are beautiful and I
love these things. But even though they are beautiful, they

(19:42):
are also very crude in terms of lithics and the
style here, which I could go into great detail about,
but I'll just I'll spare you and just say that
this they basically prepare this core called a blade core,
and it's just prepared in a specific way where one

(20:03):
end of it has a certain type of curvature, then
kind of flake it to get it this particular curvature,
and then they can strike that in. So the stone
would be striking this core from the bottom here and
these single long flakes called blades would come off in
one strike. So this is a very rudimentary style technology

(20:28):
that has been around for longer than Homo sapiens. I mean,
this has been going on for at least three hundred
thousand years with little to no advancement, and the pre
Pottery Neolithic were not much different in their use of
this lithic type. So here's some of their lithics from
the shuntlerf A Museum, and you could see that they
did retouch the bases a little bit so they could

(20:51):
have to them to shafts or whatever. And here they are,
and I think this is probably fairly accurate depiction Neolithic.
And they're buff laffed about this stat I think this
dude's wearing some aviators. That's pretty cool. But anyway, they're
about to stab this animal with these very rudimentary points.

(21:11):
And then after that, you know, one of them is
going to be like, hey, dudes, let's go flatten some
bedrock and stand up some megalists.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
I don't think so it's possible, but it seems unlikely.
So I just want to compare these lithics, the pre
Pottery Neolithic to the Clovis. Now, these Clovis points are
from the USA, and they are contemporaneous there. They're twelve

(21:40):
thousand years old, right, we're talking about these people existed
at the same time. And look at the style of
the Clovis points. Look at the advanced lithic technology that
they had a very particular stylized point. They had a
very special hafting method where they fluted these points, and
I've heard that they were able to quickly have to

(22:03):
point onto a spear and then I've also heard one
of the purposes of this fluting technology was so that
they could take down these enormous animals like mammoson things,
stab the animal, pull the spear out, the point would
stay in the animal, and then they could put another
one on there and stab it again. I don't know
if that's true. I've heard that from probably experimental archaeology,

(22:25):
but in any case, the Clovis points are incredibly advanced
compared to these pre Pottery Neolithic lithics, which have been
around for three hundred thousand years with literally no advancement.
So the pre Pottery Neolithic is suddenly responsible for making
these when they had not advanced their lithic technology at all.

(22:52):
It's just so strange to me when you look at
these two things side by side, look at the incredibly
rudimentary nature of these lithics next to these amazing megaliths
and rock cut elements with highly advanced iconography. It just

(23:13):
I think that we may be looking at two different
technological abilities in working in stone. Okay, so we're gonna
switch gears for a minute. This We're going to talk
about the vases in the stoneware at go Beckley Tepe
and the taj Tepelaire. These are That one was alabaster,
this one is a the salt vessel. There's some limestone

(23:36):
back there. There's a big limestone one, so they had
a stone ware industry as well at go Beckley Tepe.
And I think that these are most likely handmade. I
mean these all look handmade to me. They're just grinding
them out over time. They don't look turned. In other words,

(23:59):
you can see the imperfections, so it wouldn't look it
wouldn't appear that these things were turned like we would
see in some of the pre dynastic vases that are
so circular. But these are basalts, so they are made
from a hard stone and they it's pretty cool this
little geometric etchings they have in the sides of them.

(24:22):
And these are also in the schnlerf and Museum and
very nice. I think these probably would have been absolutely
beautiful when they were brand new. Another site that I've
recently been looking into is this place called Cortik Tepe,
and it's actually the oldest of the taj Teppelaire sites
and it's pre end of younger dryest. I can't remember

(24:45):
the exact dates. But look at the stoneware coming out
of this place. I haven't been able to find better
pictures than these highly pixelated ones, but I'm hoping to
get a look at some of these a little better.
This one here, I think this one needs to be scanned.
That is the salt that is incredibly thin. It looks

(25:08):
very circular, and I mean, who knows, it's just it's
just interesting. We don't know until we gather more data
on these things, but that's pretty incredible for a handmade piece.
Just just to be clear, stoneware is actual pottery? Oh
is it? Yeah? Stone wares words, stone vessels, stone vessels. Yeah, okay,

(25:33):
So here this is so more that I found on Wikipedia. These.
I think these are actually in the met from what
I can tell, probably in the basement somewhere. Calcite alabaster
eighth millennium BC. This is These are all pre pottery
Neolithic b or at least dated to that area. A

(25:54):
bowl of granite with this little tripod base eighth millennium BC.
More alibabastard pots these with some lug handles showing up there.
This one on the right looks pretty nice. That one
needs to be scanned. We should scan that, uh, these
are these are getting near the end of the Pre
Pottery and Neolithic B period sixty five one hundred BC,

(26:19):
and we're at six thousand BC, at the very end
of the pre Pottery Neolithic B, and we got these
tripod bases to show up again, which I find very interesting.
And now we got a lip on this one very
stylistically like the vessels we find in the pre dynastic
vessels in Egypt. So I just find these stylistic points,

(26:41):
these are these are typeological aspects to these bases, these
these little tripod bases. And we've got three different tripod
base bases here that are thousands of years apart, eighth
millennium BC to the six millennium BC. So that's strange
that you would have some kind of continuous stylistic type

(27:02):
for that long. But you know, who knows. It's possible
that these were found in younger layers and they're actually
being attributed to younger cultures than they actually belong to.
They may belong to older cultures here as well. Okay,
so how do we determine relative high technology? So we're
talking about stone working, we're talking about lithic technology, we're

(27:26):
talking about architecture and manufacturing. So what I mean by
this question is, if you have two objects that you're
comparing together, what are the criteria for determining which one
represents a higher technology? Does that criteria change from different

(27:48):
types of objects? And so we're going to take a
look at some examples just to illustrate the point or
the types of questions maybe we should be asking about
these things. This is a modern handmade stone plate and
modern plastic plates, So which one represents higher technology? Obviously

(28:11):
it's the plastic plates. But if you look about at
this from the lens of future archaeology, it's possible that
future archaeologists wouldn't know anything about oil or refining or
refineries or plastics at all, and if they found these
they may not realize that they represent an extremely high

(28:31):
level of manufacturing ability and chemical technology, chemistry, all that
sort of thing, But in fact they do. If these
future archaeologists were to scan these two items or study
their geometry, they might find out it's possible, maybe not
with this particular handmade stone plate, but it's possible that

(28:52):
the plate would be more precise even though it was handmade,
than these plastic ones. With their little wrinkles and everything
in there, so we've got more advanced and yet more
precise in this example. Another example is a ring handmade
from silver and a machined bushing from stainless steel, So

(29:18):
which one is more advanced? Obviously we know, but would
future archaeologists even realize that the bushing was a bushing
or what? They might mistake it for another ring of
a lower quality because it would probably be rusted and
looking pretty bad by the time it was found by archaeology,
even though it's stainless steel steel russ folks. However, if

(29:40):
they had sufficient technology to analyze the material, they would
find out it was stainless steel, and then they could consider, well,
maybe it's from a meteorite or whatever, so it doesn't
necessarily represent a higher technology. But if they could analyze
it further, perhaps they would find out, oh, it's not meteoritic,
so then they would know it was it did represent
and a higher materials technology than the silver ring, and

(30:03):
then if they were to scan them, they would find
out that the bushing was far more precise and circular
than the other than the handmade ring, even though a
handmade ring can actually get very close to circularity. So yeah,
in this case, you got more advanced and more precise
on this side. And here's a great example of the

(30:25):
actual problem. We have two vases here from the Petrie scans.
One on the left is a limestone hardness of three
to four. Number two on the right is por free
with a average hardness of six to seven. So which
one represents a higher technological advancement? I think I would

(30:51):
have guessed that the one on the right was represented
a higher technological ability because it's such a much harder stone,
and it would have been much more difficult to create
ate this object than the limestone one. I mean, everyone
can carve a limestone base. That's a piece of cake.

(31:12):
We all know that. But in fact, when it was scanned,
it was found that the limestone vessel was far more
precise by an order of magnitude actually than the one
on the right. So I find that very interesting that this,
you know, we normally consider the softer stone. Oh, you know,
that one's alabaster. This one's made of limestone. It's pretty

(31:34):
easy to carve, and so the you know, a less
advanced civilization could do it. But it doesn't mean that
the more advanced civilization might not also use that material,
so it's important to consider the harder stone one may
also have been turned, but it does have some visible

(31:54):
flaws in its geometry, like you can see with the
naked eye when you're holding it, you might be able
to tell that the lip there looks a little wonky.
So it's just not as advanced as a specimen as
this limestone base. And so then we'll go back to
go Beckley tepe here. I just when I'm looking at
these two artifacts, I cannot help but think that these

(32:20):
are two different levels of technology, and the higher technology
is the one on the right, the pillar. But these
two things were found in the same place, and so
because they were found in the same place, they were
made by the same people. Thank you archaeology. I'm not
trying to give them too much of our time. It does.

(32:42):
I mean, obviously the pre Pottery Neolithic lived there, so
it's understandable that they attribute these to the same people.
But I just don't see the what I would consider
the advancement in their stone working reflected in their lithics,
which is very strange to me that you would advance
that far with your stone working and not change your
lithics one bit when it is responsible for all of

(33:05):
your sustenance, that is what these people lived by. So
it's very strange. Okay, So the next bit here is
about the hell one point. The hell one is one
of the four main lithic types found in the oldest
layers of go Beckley Tepe, dating it to twelve thousand
years ago. And what's really interesting about this particular point

(33:28):
is that hell one is located in Egypt. It's literally
right across the Nile from Sakara, where of course you
have the step pyramid and underneath which is a whole
bunch of stone wares, stone vessels, and so I just
I find it very strange that that hell one is

(33:50):
in Egypt. What is the hell one point doing at
go Beckley Tepe? And even Klaus Schmidt asked this question
when he was digging and excavating a go Beckley Tepe.
He actually did a he took some time to do
some research on the hell one point and went to
Egypt to try to find everything he could about it,
and he wrote a report about it. But there's just

(34:11):
not a whole lot of data in Egypt about the
hell one point. This is a little blurb from a
paper that I found on this hell One point and
the guy, the author basically says that the the hell
One's Point or the point in Egypt has been neglected
by the Egyptian archaeology, while hell One points have been

(34:33):
a focus of study in the Levantine archaeology. Yeah, it's
just it's not really where the focus is in Egypt.
Most of it is, you know, this is way way
before the dynastic Egyptians, and so it's just not really
that big of a concern. You can see this what
is considered to be the diffusion process of the hell

(34:53):
One point here starting way up here and I don't
know where that is, Turkey or Sirius somewhere, and coming
all the way down and then there's sort of there
just big empty area where there's no data. And then
it just appears in the Nile Valley. So this is
the the what in green here is the Fertile Crescent,

(35:19):
the pre Pottery, Neolithic and basically as far as their
extent goes, and then there's just this massive void where
there is is insufficient data. And I just find it
interesting that right near or this hell Wan point is
found right near this massive carving out of limestone of

(35:43):
a large animal. And up here in go Beckley Tepe
we basically see almost the exact same technology at play
in the megalithic architecture and bedrock cutting. This is Carahan
Tepe and this guy is definitely cleaning it up up
and you can just see here that how much of

(36:04):
this bedrock was cut away. Just an enormous amount of
bedrock is cut away, and I mean this is barely
scratching the surface of this site of Carahan Tepe. Who
knows how much material was removed from this mountain, how
much limestone to flatten these areas and then of course
create these megaliths. And here you have the t pillars

(36:25):
like sticking out of the living rock. I mean, these
people were sculptors, They were carving that extremely advanced iconography.
And I just can't help but make that connection to
the sphinx. This is exactly what this thing is. It
was cut literally out of the limestone rock. It was

(36:48):
shaped into a form of an animal. Now, I think
the biggest difference here is the size of the stones
that were removed from the sphinx enclosure, because they are
absolutely enormous and they represent something a far greater feet
in that sense than the stones that were moved at
Cobeckley Tepe. But what just really fascinates me here is

(37:09):
the possibility of a connection because of course, as you
all know, Robert Schock dated the Sphinx enclosure to twelve
thousand years that is when the go Beckley Tepe was
at least the first rock walls were built there, and
that is the age of these the oldest lithics. And
I just love this idea, you know, really, I think,

(37:30):
originally suggested by Graham Hancock, that perhaps an older civilization
that had a higher level of technology, like right at
the end of the Younger Dry at some cataclysm happens,
they almost die out, and some of them take refuge,
like these people in Egypt that possibly created the Sphinx
twelve thousand years ago, may have taken refuge with a

(37:53):
small group of one hundred gatherer types that had a
presence there in hell Wan and also so a larger
presence over in the Levant and maybe traveled with them
and perhaps influenced them or oversaw the construction of some
megalithic architecture and rock cutting at go Beckley Tepe and

(38:14):
the Taje Tepelaier civilization and then at some point their
technology dies out with them, and the pre Pottery Neolithic
revered those sites so much that for the next two
thousand years they did everything that they could to stand
every one of those stones back up and rebuild those enclosures.

(38:38):
So I just love the idea that there might be
a connection here between these different stone working technologies twelve
thousand years ago. And that's it. Thank you very much. Awesome.
Oh man, all right, the hell one stuff. It's cool.

(39:02):
Didn't you say that Hugh Newman mentioned this to you? Yeah?
He actually he mentioned it in just podcast we did
together when we were in London. Yeah, he popped into
the live chat. I don't know if he's still in there,
but yeah, shout out, it's Cado. We recorded a podcast
there and Hugh starts talking about it and I'm like,

(39:23):
I must have been thinking about something else. I just
it just went right over my head, dude. I didn't
even realize it. And when I was talking about this
to Cadoy, he was like, hey, check this out. He
showed me a clip of the podcast. I was like,
oh my god, he was onto it. But right, but
then Yusuff mentioned it to us. So I was just

(39:45):
spitting out the names of the different points that were
found down there, and Yusuff was like, hell on, that's
in Egypt. I'm like, what, Yeah, yeah, that is a
crazy connection. Mind. But so to the possibilities that I mean,
you know, there's the possibility that the people that made

(40:07):
those points did make quebecley Tepe and they're also associated
with the sphinx with its making or whatever. That's another possibility.
I mean, it only takes one da Vinci, you know
what I'm saying. This is the other thing I try
to consider is that like maybe there was some there's
just like some special group there that was just like
check this out. But what I still, even when I

(40:28):
start to think that way, I'm like, no, because they
would have also made ceremonial with flint era heads. They
would have shown their artistic style and their arrowheads like
the Meso Americans did with these giant dragons. And they
were amazing stone artists, and they did their art in
every type of stone. There are ceremonial lithics found in Egypt.

(40:53):
I don't know how old they are. Absolutely the museum
is full of freaking amazing, but there's I haven't seen one.
Yeah at go Beckley Tepe or the taj Teplayer civilization
or the pre pottery Neolithic, right, and those those matter.
Those long flake points are just everywhere on the ground
there and you can find them, you can mass produce them.
So another thing that I I was going to put in,

(41:14):
I actually have had a longer form of the of
the presentation which I had to shorten. But one of
the ideas I was going to throw out there was like,
is this a mass production effort? Like where they did
they use this style? Did they develop it for mass production?
Because they they just didn't care and they were just

(41:35):
like it's like the plastic plates for them, there's like
tink dicdinc tink, just knocking out all these air heads
real quick, no time spent on it. But that doesn't
make sense because this particular lithic style has been around
for forever, like it's been it was used by pre
Homo sapiens. Yeah, my other, my other problem, I mean,

(41:56):
I don't know, it's you would have to look at
every lithic they've ever found there, but where are the
actual stone working tools? So the stone working tools are
called burns. They're they're basically a chisel. We've found a
couple of them. We just didn't know what they were.
The thicker ones, it's like a flat rectangular piece like this,

(42:16):
and then it has like a a lot of times
they have like a step fracture on the side of it,
and then there's a point. It just kind of comes
to a flat point on the other end like this.
And they say they're chisels, and for sure you could
carve limestone with that, but there should be hundreds of them,
thousands where I looked at I tried to find this out.

(42:38):
Is does anywhere you know? How? They say, like there
are thousands and thousands and thousands of these projectile points
all over that midden. Not very many burns. Right, there's
where are all the where are the stone working tools? Yeah,
they're in the quarry. You know they didn't they didn't
work the stone at the site. Come on, they had
to work the stone at the site. Yeah, I mean,

(42:59):
who have the carving? But the pre Pottery Neolithic used
burns at other sites that don't have any megaliths, so
those artifacts are there also. Okay, they were making stone wares,
they were making rock walls, they were making mortar, they
were grinding stones and stuff. They had grinding, you know, basalt,

(43:22):
grinding stones. So it just I don't see that there's
like suddenly hundreds of thousands of burns at the sites
where they did tons of megalithic architecture, and then like
only a handful at these other sites where they didn't
do any of that stuff. I haven't seen any statements
about this in the papers I've been looking for it,

(43:44):
So I just all I can do, see this is
what I'm doing, I think is more just typological, like
I don't have I'm doing like a typological dating almost,
which is to say these aren't these don't come from
the same period because they don't even match, Like, they

(44:06):
don't match anything that happened up until that point anywhere.
So unless it's some kind of da Vinci type character
that just shows up and which which is basically what
Graham is saying, suggesting with his narrative that like Benchi
character comes from a difference, comes from somewhere else, Yeah,

(44:26):
and just it influences these people. But the other interesting
thing is is that they never achieve. One of the
reasons why I showed the diagram of all the pillars
being dragged in was because they never made another pillar.
The pillar was made, and then two thousand years later
they were still standing it up and propping it up
on the rocks. They didn't make a new one. And

(44:48):
there's an even better picture. I don't know why I
didn't put it in the presentation, but of Enclosure D,
the most famous enclosure where literally it's just the top.
Yes it's a t piller and you can see there. Yeah,
it just starts down the side and it's literally stacked
and stacked on all these rocks they stacked up to
get it up there. And it's like, come on, man,

(45:08):
if they were capable of making these pillars, they would
have just made another one, yeah, but they didn't. And
you can see in some of the pre pottery Neolithic
Beast settlements, like the domiciles that they started building way
way later near the end, they all have like a
little tiny tea pillar inside them that's just kind of

(45:29):
just crappy. It's not very well made. But I think
it was like everyone you know once a what do you,
I don't know, a theater in their house and it's
like small, like it's not what you know, there's something
like that that we all do. It's like, oh, yeah,
you got to have you know this in your house.
But it's like not the real one, you know what
I mean, they kind of all had that like central

(45:52):
pillar in their home. It was all the rage. It
was all the rage. Two thousand years later, baby, you
gotta have a tea in your house. That's the other
thing that just gets me is that, like the archaeologists
look at this as though they were continuously building those enclosures.
I'm just like, no, one, no, no, Like they they
say they were never finished. That's one of the direct

(46:12):
quotes from the lead archaeologists. The buildings were never finished.
They were still building them two thousand years later and
modifying them. And I'm just like, no, they may have
never been finished, but the idea that they were being
built for two thousand years is ridiculous. Yeah, all of
those those pillars were there I in the beginning. I

(46:35):
still think that it's also possible that the original bedrock cutting,
platform making and central pillars is also different from the
pillars that are that surround them. I mean there's there's
there's even a like a technical ability difference in those

(47:00):
the central pillars, especially with H enclosure D mm hmm,
the big that's the one with the huge ones that
are broken, right, that's isn't that deep enclosure C is
the massive central PRIs that are broken. And see those
pillars are those two pillars are actually like they stand
out as being better than every other pillar in the
entire uh site, Yes, they do, uh And it's it's

(47:23):
just a shame that we don't know what what they
would have looked like. You know, I would like to
see a reconstruction, Like I know the fragments are lying
around on the ground, but I would like to know what,
you know, what they originally look like. But they're just
they stand out as being much better than every other pillar.
But then but then again, the big the big central

(47:44):
pillars and enclosure enclosure D also stand out as being
better than the pillars that surround it for the most part,
sometimes on the outside on the outside ring, but for
the most part, I think the central ones are the
highest quality. So you can imagine, like, you know, you
get your best guys on the central pillars, yeah, yeah,

(48:07):
you know, and then the the the apprentices and the
nubes are working on the pillars on the outside. I
don't know, or maybe it's a teaching thing like Graham
has suggested before the man some of these some of
those outer pillars are freaking amazing. Like that massive one

(48:30):
that's that's in enclosure. See, it's like right when you
get up on the deck and you're looking down, it's
like you just see the top of it and has
that little groove in the top. That one's just absolutely enormous.
And then the one across way over there has like
all the I don't know what they are, geese or something,
and the boar and all this stuff, and it's like
almost buried. They're just beautiful, huge, So I don't know,

(48:54):
I mean, I don't think we're ever going to see
those because they're completely covered up in architecture. Yeah, they're
not buried in just rubble. For those out there who
are complaining that the place isn't fully excavated, it's it's architecture.
So you know, to actually reveal that pillar, you have

(49:15):
to destroy all of the architecture, which I'm fine with
a little bit of destructions. Yeah, I'm fine with a
little bit of destruction. Yeah, to see these things, but
if you if you remember, I think it was Was
it magicians that the gods were Graham talked about. Maybe
it was magicians where he talked about going out there,

(49:39):
Maybe it wasn't. I don't remember which one it was,
but he talked about going out there and finding out
that that pillar had been basically covered up. That was
the vulture forty two. Yeah, so they had they had
dug out the vulture stone, they had completely excavated it,
and then coming and back the rock stack up. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I need to find out if those freaking if those

(50:01):
man dude, it's like they wanted to see what the pillar,
you know what. That's making me think that those that
all those little discontinuities in the rock wall construction may
have been the archaeologists like completely uncovering the pillar to
see the iconography and then bearing it. Yeah, could be
or restacking the rocks in there. Yeah, dang it ruined
my presentation. Freaking archaeologists. Yeah, you're right, some of those

(50:25):
discontinuities in the walls could be, but they definitely don't
know how much of those rock walls have been reconstructed. Yeah,
some of them look some of them definitely look like
there's a little there's some modern work in there, yeah,
but there's some that. Look, I don't think that they
did anything with it, you know, like, yeah, that would

(50:47):
be really tough to find out. I mean we would
have you'd have to you'd have to be able to
look at like the detailed logs, and it's just like,
oh my god, Yeah, who knows, yeah what they did.
But yeah, I remember Graham talking about that the Vulturestone
was uncovered the first time you went, and then they
had stacked the rocks back. The second time you went out,
there was covered up. It was like reburied or whatever. Yeah,

(51:08):
but it's not really reb I guess they buried the
base of it or something. Yeah, probably trying the mottom
part of it is covered up. Yeah, I mean it's
even even in the model right that the So we
got to go to the museums this time, and in
the museum they have the full sized model of Enclosure
D and the Vulturestone is covered up in the model.

(51:31):
I'm like, come on, like, at least show us the
whole thing in here. That's a good point I think
of that. Yeah. I specifically went over there to look
at it, and they they've just basically done like an
exact recreation of what it looks like right now in
the field. And so the vulturestone is buried in the
rock wall, so you can't see the lower two thirds

(51:52):
or whatever of the carvings. It was looking at me
the whole time while you were talking, Oh well, well
two camera system. Well it's a great presentation man. And
uh you have like a longer, more detailed version. Well,
the original version is longer and more detailed. But I

(52:13):
never finished it. I just kind of ran through it
one time and I was like, oh, it's too long. Yeah,
so it so, this this one that I just did
has all the completed things from us. Yeah. Yeah, I
just when I realized it was too long, I deleted
a whole bunch of slides trying to hide things, the

(52:37):
important stuff, deleted all the best slides. I still. Yeah,
I know we already talked about this, but the hell
the hell one? Yeah, kill stranger, kild stranger beers. Okay,
this is wonder crusher. Is that what that says? It's

(52:59):
a bubble? Can't read it? Yeah, wonder crusher. And then
we have a beach eagle, says Gigantic Flavor. Oh yeah,
this is a Mexican style lagger, so you can take
whichever one you you like. M I don't know about

(53:20):
gigantic flavor. It's too gigantic for me. Guilt Stranger, Thank
you so much, bro for these beers. That's okay. This
is pretty good. Mm no, that's good. Ah yeah, I

(53:41):
do like these. It doesn't say what it is. But
cheers to you guys. Follow you in the chat. Thank
you for joining us. Cheers people, Yep, I'm using my
new ozark accusing, Well, what else would you add to that?

(54:04):
If you now that you've gone through the presentation you
have other thoughts? Yes, I've already found another site in
another I think, well, I guess it's a pre Pottery
Neolithic A or B site. I think it's a pre

(54:26):
pottery Neolithic B site that's in the southern Sinai. So
while the hell One point vanishes as it's approaching the
Sinai Peninsula, there is pre pottery Neolithic B artifacts there.
So it's like the diffusion comes down like the hell

(54:47):
One starts up in Turkey some some twelve thousand years
ago or maybe even older. I don't know actually how
old the oldest hell One is. But but it's supposedly
it's coming down and diffusing down into headed towards the Sinai.
And then there's just like no data there. But then

(55:09):
there's pre pottery neilithic b a big settlement down actually
a number of big settlements down there in the southern Sinai,
and I'm trying to find the exact location of these places.
There's a few papers on them, and the papers are
not really concerned with the lithics. They were talking about

(55:31):
like bone, the bones that they found, the animal bones,
and they were like, ah, they had these animals and
those animals and they were killing these animals, and that's
what the paper was about, okay, about their hunting products.
Then it shows a there's a sketch of a top
down look at the village and it's all these little circular,

(55:51):
small circular dwellings with little walls, you know, little rock
walls and some But the interesting thing about those is
they've using flagstones and they're standing the flagstones up like this.
We got to get down there. I just I just
am like, probably no one's been there for I think
these papers were in like the thirties or what was

(56:12):
the name of the place. We went to in Egypt
with Ben and Yusuf that had all the circular that
was I never remember the name, I just but those
were flagstones too, but they were flat, they were yes, yeah, yeah,
and they made circular, little circular that no one can
get in. Yeah. Right. The entrance had a little keyhole. Yeah, strange,

(56:33):
what a weird place. Tombs tombs, Yeah, because that was
the other thing is we looked all over the place
and didn't find any sign. There was no midden, no midden,
no lithics. That was really strange. So I was starting
to believe it at the end there. Yeah, I'm like, okay,
because when we first were like these kids, what is
tombs out here in the middle of Noah's bullshit? And
then we walk around, we're like, wow, no one lived here.

(56:55):
Yeah that was crazy or we just didn't find it.
Yeah know it might be. I mean it could be.
It's just crazy that there wouldn't be the first flake outside.
And I found like one piece of flint down in
the in the draw and it was that was it.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
I ask Rock now because I know he knows. Ben knows.
I've talked to Groc about it many times. Ben was
in the chat. Maybe he remembers what he doesn't remember
what it is. Hey, no, no, no, we weren't talking.
Don't start talking to me, dude. You got on voice mode.

(57:34):
What are you doing on voice mode? Get out of
voice mode. Bro, he's listened to me right now. Don't
even whisper. You put him in whisper mode. He starts
whispering classic snake bros. Folks, what the hell dude? Okay,

(57:55):
while he's looking that up the to go back to
the point I was making about the hell one points
because he never lets me get all the way to
the point. Sorry, It's it's funny every time I bring
this up, he interrupts me being part of the way through,
And then everybody thinks I'm arguing that the people that
the hell On people made the sphinx. I'm like, no,
there's two possibilities that those lithics are associated with the
people that spread from the lower you know, that area

(58:18):
of Egypt next to Cairo all the way up through
the area of go Beckley Tepe and elsewhere, and that
they are in the same time period as the people
who built go Beckley Tepeuh. In which case, if the people,
if those people did build Go Beckley Tape. They were
capable of making the Sphinx. I mean, now, I know
the Sphinx is like enormous in terms of rock work

(58:43):
compared to what happened with the Sphinx, but I mean
compared to what happened to Go Beckley Tepe, but not
really because what we look what we think of when
we think of Go Beckley Tepe are the te pillars,
which is a large undertaking, but the biggest amount of
rock work that went on there was digging out the
platforms now, am That's right man, That's definitely what I

(59:04):
told you. He was in there and he knew it. Now.
I mean, so that one possibility is that those people
associated with those points uh also were responsible for both
of these objects, or for both of these sites, Go
Beckley Tappe and the Sphinx. This is really interesting because

(59:26):
all of you remember, you know Lanner's argument against the
concept that the Sphinx was old when he was debating
UH Robert Shock, which was he was like, show me
the pot shirts. Well, we have pre pottery Neolithic people
building that are that are now associated with building massive
megalithic stuff, and some of the points found in that
area are also found in Egypt near the Sphinx. That's

(59:49):
the point I left out. I always forget to put
that one in there. So kicking their own ass, right,
because they're telling us that this huge rock cut and
megalithic stuff can be built by people. Well, it didn't
have power pottery, right, and before that, when Robert Big
this thing's twelve thousand years old, Well, you got to
show me the pot shirts first, what civilization? What are

(01:00:11):
the pot shirts? Well, guess what you just associated Now
you have the taj Teppelaier civilization. That's pre pottery, pre pottery.
That's another part. Fucking pot shirts. Yeah, that's another part
of me of the longer presentation goes into the technology
of pottery and how in some cases it can be
considered a technological advancement over working into these stone bowls

(01:00:35):
by hand, right, Like obviously if you need a vessel
and you have and you develop firing pottery, like, dude,
this is the advancement. You made a technological advancement. And
you can look at that civilization and say, aha, they
made it past this grinding yourself out by hand a
stone vessel. Yeah. But then so that's why it's this

(01:00:55):
important contrast. It's like, well, then when you look at
the extremely hard stone and and the extremely precise geometry
of these things, now we're talking about something else. It's
a different proxy that's telling you that there was a
higher advancement. Yeah. The proxy is the geometry and the
hardness of stone. Right. So the other possibility with the

(01:01:19):
hell one points being spread across the whole area is
I think the one that you were that you were
initially talking about, which is that these people revered both
of these places and lived near them because those sites
were there. Yeah, the Sphinx, if the Sphinx was, they
didn't build them. Yeah, this was the other thing I
was thinking about, Like when that Sphinx was excavated by

(01:01:41):
the pharaoh who put his name on the on the
uh tut Moses, Yeah, uh not the dreams dealy between
this pause of the Sphinx he excavated it. He tells
the story like I did the market left here, and
like the Sphinx told me dig me out, Yeah, I'll

(01:02:02):
make you a king. So he digs it out, and
I'm wondering, like where did all that midden go? Because
just like a Beckley tepe, it could have been buried
in midden, not just sand yeap obviously it had sand
on it, but if it was twelve thousand years ago,
it was savannah or whatever it was, and that could
have been filled full of midden from the pre Pottery Neolithic.

(01:02:27):
And then he digs it out and it's just all
these psychology destroyed tossing it in the river. That's why
all one points are found there. Well they were, That's
what I'm saying, but it'd be interesting to see. So
I've been looking at all these all these other lithic
sites because the fact that these lithics just aren't really

(01:02:48):
studied that much in Egypt, like no one cares pretty much.
They've done these studies up in the Highlands, in the
high desert above Abbidots that were just looking for like, well,
how many artifacts are in a meter radius. So they

(01:03:13):
get a huge group of people and they walk across
the desert and stop every fifty paces or whatever and
draw one meter circle and you just pick every single
artifact up off the surface and count them and write
the number down and then go on. They didn't do
an analysis on the artifacts types other than they just said,
well they're really old. They're like twenty thousand years old

(01:03:35):
or something. But wait, you can walk in the desert
out there and just stop and pick up a bunch
of artifacts from a one meter So I got the maps.
Oh my god. I also don't care about the numbers.
Let's go do it. Yeah, I'm like, bro, I am there, Yeah,

(01:03:55):
I am in that place. I found one. I found
the highest concentration area, and like, I got it on
my map. So I'm just saying like they didn't really
do an analysis of the typology other than to say
like roughly like well, we're talking like these were really old,

(01:04:18):
tens of thousands of years old possibly right, so just
paleolithic or whatever you call it. But they don't really care.
They just walk along and do this one survey. It
was like decades and decades ago. I don't think anybody's
even was it just like an attempt to find out
what the population was or something. Yes, okay, they were

(01:04:38):
looking to find out what were the populations the densely
populated how and then they discovered like, wow, there was
a lot more people up here than we thought. Yeah. Man,
So I just it's just I don't know, I'm I
feel like this is a huge rabbit hole, and there's

(01:04:59):
like so many pieces to the puzzle. But I have
no doubt that the pre Pottery Neolithic a like the
oldest ones that were around building those very first rock
walls twelve thousand years ago, right after the end of
the Younger Dryest, had either trade routes or knew about
or encountered the people that were over in the Nile Valley.

(01:05:21):
They had a presence there. The hell One points go
all the way to the Fiume. They've been found up
in the high deserts above the Fyume where we were.
So like, they weren't just like right there, they were
all over that valley and why shouldn't they be. Yeah,
they were just named after that section because that's where
they were first identified. That's where the first points were

(01:05:43):
identified in. Yeah, and not very many, just a few.
And now you couldn't find anything there because it's all
streets and stuff. Yeah, but anyway, it's fascinating. So, but
the the two different points, those those various different points,

(01:06:05):
like the ones that are that are so prevalent in
Quebeca Tepe and krahen Tepe and the other sites we
visited there are pretty different from the hell one they
don't have the Yeah, the hell, I haven't found one yet. Yeah,
I've never seen one at go Beckley Tepe. Yeah. Now,
maybe it's because they are from the oldest layers and
so they're just they're way down there, so we don't

(01:06:28):
find them just walking around on the surface. Yeah, I gets.
I guess what the point I'm making is, they look
a little more what I would think of is less crude,
the more advanced halfting style, which I find interesting too,
because it's like they lose it after a why kind
of just yeah, there's I don't know about fluting, but
that you know, they have the the narrowing of the neck,
and then there's the two that they're notching it. That

(01:06:49):
they're notching it with the teeth at the at the back,
whereas the those other points are just it's basically just
really rudimentary, right, And like you said, that might be
a product of they want they're just like these are
so easy to make and you can stab a deear
with it. Whatever. Yeah, Actually there are points their lithics

(01:07:10):
get better over time. Yeah, they start out pretty crude,
like the older, older ones, and they do slowly, just
minutely get like better they're doing more retouch, they're doing
a little bit more interesting halting styles and stuff like that,
like at the very very end. But that that original

(01:07:31):
oldest style, like you said, is older than Homo sape
that blade and flake technology. Oh yeah, yeah, so it's
been that there's been basically the same for three hundred
thousand years. So all of the sudden, that's what I'm saying.
And if the oldest layers of go Beckley Tepe, you
have this same style, right, But then now they're at

(01:07:55):
this site, I just I don't know. Now they're at
this site with this advanced like more advanced, they're living
amongst megaliths, and suddenly their elythics, which haven't changed in
three hundred thousand years, slowly start to change. Yeah yeah,
and they start making pillars like that, that's the ring
they started. They started trying to make pillars. I think.

(01:08:16):
I think the like when you look into the pre
pottery Neolithic b if you were to say that they
that they were the builders of the pillars, then they
start out with the worst lithics in the best pillars,
and then over two thousand years they get the worst
pillars in the best lithics which makes no sense, right,

(01:08:37):
Their elythics get better, the pillars get worse. Yeah. Yeah,
Now I tried to I was, I just there's not
really an easy way to illustrate this because I don't
have enough pictures and when I tried to look up
you try to look up pre pottery Neolithic B pillars.
I was trying to look up the pillars that are

(01:08:58):
in the domiciles, and you just can't find photos of
it our pictures. Yeah. I went through mine, and I'm
just like, like these are these are horrible? Like I
was because I wasn't also not looking at them. Yeah,
like whatever, those are pieces of pottery and elithic B pills,

(01:09:20):
you know. So yeah, I just couldn't illustrate the point.
But yeah, and then then when it comes to the lithics,
like they do get better, but you really have to
you have to have to be a lithic nerd, Yeah
to see the improvement. Yeah. Sounds like this is not
a good point to make, but I'm but that's what's happening. Yeah,

(01:09:45):
So it just doesn't make sense in so many ways. Well, hey,
we need to think. I wanted to thank ed fo.
He's he's he's donated several times with comments, but the
last one he said with the hell one points helping
to date go Beckley Tepe. Can we call Mark Laner
now and say we found something better than pots shirts

(01:10:06):
for him? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, that's the point. Where are
the pot shirts? Well? How about these megaliths? Yeah? Also
ed Food, I gotta thank you man. Like, he was
trying to tell me this thing about how they were
maps in the slopes, so yeah, they were building this.
He was like, dude, they're building circles, you know, they're

(01:10:27):
building the walls inside the other wall, like, and the
structure was getting smaller and smaller over time. And I
was like, what, I finally found that paper. Yeah. Lee,
it was a huge pain in the ass to find
these papers, but I got them anyways. Yeah, those maps
were great, and thank you for for yeah bringing that up, dude.

(01:10:47):
And then we got Rex twenty X. Thanks Bro. Unfinished beers. Yeah,
every beer of mine is unfinished cheers, Bro, thank you
very much. Yeah. Yeah, I love that map of the
I just I think that's so cool, dude, because I
would love to see if they excavated around that one

(01:11:11):
giant pillar that's on the outer ring of enclosure CEA
go all the way to the bottom, is it free standing?
See when you go and look at those main enclosures,
what we're looking at the surface of the bedrock that
they've excavated out. That's not the original floor, Like there's
a little bench wall there, but the floor would have

(01:11:33):
been much bigger. Oh yeah, yeah, yep. So maybe there
are sockets out here that are completely covered in rock
walls now and other structures. Because then pre pottery neolithic
bee comes along, they start building on top of other
rock walls and things that are older and start making
torazo floors. They started making like the little tile floors

(01:11:53):
and stuff. I was, yeah, I was singing the same
thing when you were showing the maps, like I would
like to know what the outer edges of the the
rock cut platforms look like. Yeah, there's a really great
diagram also of you know, they're guessing it where their
bedrock steps up. But there has to be a massive

(01:12:16):
step up on this bedrock to get up to the
other part that they're excavating up above. Yeah, the walkway,
there's like the other covered area up on the hill. Yep,
there's probably a freaking thirty or forty foot cliff. Yeah,
so really you would have had like this cliff like
you imagine back in the day, like there would have

(01:12:36):
been a cliff wall and you're just looking up there
looking down on this on these just massive three standing
stone circles. But it just we just don't know what
it looked like. Yeah, and like I mean, people want
it fully excavated. But really, I think what people want,

(01:12:58):
I don't think that they I think they don't understand
what they're looking at. Like that's maybe I'm wrong, but
it's like the stuff that you're looking at down in
there is all architecture. Yeah, there's no more midden down there.
They've excavated all the midden out. It's all architecture now.
So to excavate anything else means you're just removing buildings, right, Well,

(01:13:21):
I think they want the rest of the midden pile excavated.
Outside of what people want, people think that the inside
of that enclosure area is not fully excavated. Well, I
know that they're like sitting there like and they're uncovered,
Like they uncovered that like big bore statue that was
up at the very back end. Yeah, but that's like

(01:13:42):
on the edge of the excavation area. Yeah, it's in
the edge, but yeah, I would still I also think
the other thing part of me wants to, yeah, like
destroy that pre party and the Eolithic pece. Just get
rid of the walls. I would love lose. Yeah, they
won't do it, No, they won't. I mean, get a
detailed light our map of the whole thing and then

(01:14:06):
just and then get the walls out of there and
are made by the same they think that those people
built that, right, So they won't. Yeah, they won't because
they think it's part of the pillar site. But I'm like,
I'm like, well, can we see the entire platform, because
we know that it's multiple walls sitting I mean like
right sitting on top of the platform, and like you're saying,
there could be a massive cliff wall that maybe part

(01:14:27):
of it was natural, but they dug it out to
make this area to put all the circles in. Then
I also think, like one the thing that gets overlooked
a lot is that flattened platform out in the open, Yes,
on the edge of the hill, right that somebody did
a bunch of bedrock work there too and made at
least one pedestal. Yeah, and it's like that would be

(01:14:52):
the one you could see from everywhere else. Yeah, that
one has to be so old because it's just like
worn away. Yeah, on the edge of the hill. Yeah,
it's worn away on the edge and it's been exposed.
It was never covered in midden. That's the other thing.
It just it was not covered in midden. I think
they robbed all the pillars from whatever was over there,
or maybe that one was just never completed. Maybe that's

(01:15:13):
maybe that was like the next one and they never
completed it. Yeah, I don't know. It's really strange because
they're Yeah, the slots in those pedestals are like barely even.
It's almost just kind of like they were just like
here's the outline for the place, and they hadn't really

(01:15:34):
cut down yet. Yeah, because it's literally right next to
the top of bedrock, you know what I mean, it
only goes down like a little bit. Yeah, whereas Carahan
and go Beckley Tepey are just way dug way down. Yeah. Yeah,
it's crazy. Yeah all right man. Yeah, it was fantastic.

(01:15:58):
Thank you and thenk all of you. I hope you
enjoyed that. Yeah, next time, we just do yours. Yeah,
we'll do mine. Next all right, yeah, people, Hugh brought
up the Sabians, and like, I bring up some of
that in my presentation, which is supposed to which was
supposed to go along with Kyle's and Ben's and everyone else's.

(01:16:22):
We were trying to, like with the New York event,
we were sort of putting together a coherent everybody's presentation
connected in some way to everybody else's. And yeah, I
did bring up the Sphinx and the Sabians and stuff.
Actually a few of the quotes I have in my
presentation come directly from the Andrew Andrew Collins article that

(01:16:42):
he was talking about with the Sabians. Oh okay, yeah,
because he talked about the the the he Hugh was
bringing up the point that in in Turkey there's all
this underground stuff as well, which is another thing I
want to do one of these days, maybe when we
when we do the next episode on the cart Ruts,
I want to show people that Corey the underground cave quarry.

(01:17:04):
Oh my god, that place was in Bosda. I think
it was, yeah, Basda Caves. We need to show people
that the the amount of digging underground that these people
did was just fent like phenomenal. Now, Ben saying he
only got halfway through his he wants the paper we
all stole, we all stole, Bro, I'll attach it to it.

(01:17:29):
We all stole what we all stole. Time from Ben,
he was the last presentation. Hey, I did mine in
thirty minutes, Bro. Yeah, he told me I could take
ten minutes from him, and I did. All right, let's
wrap it up. Thank you guys so much for joining

(01:17:51):
the live once again. I'll just bring up that harvest
has started where we were processing grapes today, so it's
super busy period for us, and we're also still trying
to complete the winery building at the same time as
doing harvest. Hopefully we'll be able to do part of
our harvest in our new building. Hopefully. Oh, that's gonna happen.
Kyle's determined for it to happen. We just needed we

(01:18:13):
just needed electricity. Yeah, somebody needs They need to run
an extension cord from the other side of the property. Nope,
that won't work. Four eighty voltematic. There's nowhere to plug
it in. Literally, there's nowhere. Nowhere has to come from
freaking giant transform. So we're gonna get some plugs and

(01:18:34):
then we've got all this awesome equipment. Well, we'll get
to process some grapes there, but then we'll be hauling
them off to If we get to run our new,
sweet new wine making equipment this year, I will post
I'll post some videos. It would make her the job
so much easier. The crap we're working with right now
is I was trying that to get I was trying

(01:18:56):
not to start swearing, just like I know both of
us get so if you're just like god, damn it.
So we're gonna have our own place where we are
in control of all the equipment and it's the equipment
we want, and it's gonna be amazing and it'll be
and we'll be swearing it will you who would have
fuck decided to buy this piece of Eventually something will happen,

(01:19:20):
hopefully not. But I mean, all the equipment looks great.
But I don't think I'll be mad at the place
no equipment, no, because it's yeah, any mess there will
be our mess YEP, that's the main thing. You know.
It's gonna be nice. Thank you guys. Oh wait, we
can't leave yet. I don't have my bumper music lined up.

(01:19:41):
I was busy doing other stuff. But yeah, so thank
you guys all for supporting the show, for watching it,
and again we will be publishing episodes when we can
during the month of harvest. So so much. I love you,
always have, always will.

Speaker 3 (01:20:02):
Good Night a dam you get back to work.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
You are listening to the French radio network French radionetwork
dot com.
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