The Timing of the Two Witnesses - Chris White

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In this episode I do a live bible study about when the two witnesses prophecy. Is the 1260 days the first or 2nd half of the 7 year period?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, everybody, it's me Cinderella. As you are listening to
the Fringe Radio Network. I know I was gonna tell them, hey,
do you have the app? It's the best way to
listen to the Fringe Radio Network. It's safe and you
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(00:27):
I know I was gonna tell him, how do you
get the app? Just go to Fringe radionetwork dot com
right at the top of the page. I know, slippers,
we gotta keep cleaning these chimneys.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Welcome to Bible Prophecy Talk with Chris White. This is
a best of episode which I think you will like.
But first, if you're interested in my non Bible prophecy
related Bible teaching, you can check out my new podcast,
vine Abider, where in addition to posting the new Deformation
series where I'm currently through part four. It's more technical writing,

(01:06):
but I'm also posting it as a podcast on that feed.
Also on that feed, though, is the vine Abiders live stream.
That's something I'm doing on Wednesday nights at seven pm,
which is basically down to earth Bible study stuff. It's
pre recorded on the feed, but I am live in
the chat on YouTube and Facebook on Wednesday nights. Just
search for vine abiders wherever you get your podcasts, or

(01:29):
on YouTube, Facebook or substack. And now back to the
best of Bible prophecy talk. So what I'm going to
do first is read through this section briefly, and then
we'll get into talking about what the issues were and
how to solve them, or at least try to solve them.
So Revelation eleven, starting in verse one, kind of a

(01:49):
long passage here says then I was given a measuring
rod like a staff, and I was told rise and
measure the Temple of God and the altar and those
who worship there. But do not measure the court out
side the temple. Leave that out, for it is given
over to the nations. And they will trample the Holy
City for forty two months. And I will grant authority
to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for one
thy two hundred and sixty days. Clothed in sackcloth, these

(02:13):
are the two olive trees and the two lamp stands
that stand before the Lord of the Earth. And if
anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and
consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is
how he is doomed to be killed. They have the
power to shut up the sky that no rain may
fall during the days of their prophesyne, and they have
the power over the waters, to turn them into blood,
and to strike the earth with every kind of plague

(02:34):
as often as they desire. And when they have finished
their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit
will make war on them and conquer them and kill them.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
And their dead.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Bodies will lie in the street of the great city
that symbolically is called Sodom in Egypt, where their lord
was crucified for three and a half days. Some from
the peoples and the tribes, and the languages and the
nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to
let them be placed in a tomb, And those who
dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make
merry and exchange presence, because these two prophets had been

(03:05):
a torment to those who dwell on the earth. But
after the three and a half days, a breath of
life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet,
and great fear fell upon those who saw them. Then
they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them,
come up here, and they went into heaven in a cloud,
and their enemies watched them. At that hour, there was
a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell.

(03:26):
Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the
rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of Heaven.
The second woe has passed, behold, the third woe is
soon to come. And then in the next verse we
have the seventh trumpet being reallysed. So just in context here,
let's go a little bit over that, so earlier in

(03:48):
the Book of Revelation, specifically starting let's start at verse
in chapter eight. Really the seven trumpets which come after
the seven bulls have begun to be blown. Each one
is associated with a judgment. Now that's fairly rapid stuff.
The first angel blue is trumpet, the second Angel blue

(04:10):
is trumpet, the third the fourth, and really it's it's
pretty consistent like that up until the sixth angel blowing
his trumpet. And then you have kind of a long
interlude here that really extends several verses, including the two
Witnesses verse and then finally they pick up back up
in the seventh trumpet is blown here, So big interlude here,

(04:34):
And that's actually a consistent part theme in the Book
of Revelation. There are several interludes in which the narrative
of the seals being opened, or the trumpets being blown,
or the bowls of wrath being poured out, they stop
usually at the sixth of one of those in a series,
and then there's a big interlude in which during that

(04:56):
interlude typically there is what biographic type chapters where, for example,
the antichrists and the false prophet are described in one
of these interludes, but that's for another story in any case,
So the question was in the podcast previous podcast, when
do these two witnesses prophesy because we have a very

(05:20):
definite market here and sixty days or forty two months
now that is in a reference to the seven year period.
If I've got a picture of the seven years, yeah,
here's kind of kind of a picture here. We've got
the seven year period, Daniel's seventieth week, which is bisected

(05:41):
into two different groups, both of which are two hundred
and sixty days, right, So the question is which is
which do they prophesy here? Do they prophesy starting when
the Covenant is made? And then does do they are
they killed at the midpoint and then a resuric three
days after that? Or do they start prophesying here at

(06:03):
the midpoint and then are killed here at the end
of the seven year period and are resurrected three days
after that? And I have kind of gone through a
different a few different viewpoints on that. The first viewpoint
I had was, well, I don't know what the first
one I had, probably that it was either maybe even

(06:26):
before the seventieth week. I know some people have that view,
but I think that I kind of started off believing
that they were at the end, but various things kind
of happened and I started thinking, well, it makes more
sense logically if they were actually at the first three

(06:47):
and a half years. And part of my thinking for that,
and again this was not really any kind of scriptural
clue or anything so much as things like this where
it says that they're dead bodies are in the streets
of Jerusalem for three and a half days, and the

(07:07):
dwellers on the earth will rejoice over them and make
merry in exchange presents because these two prophets had been
a torment, torment to those who dwell on the earth.
So really, I think more than anything, that kind of
verse led me to believe this has to be at
the first half, because if you put these earth dwellers
making merry and stuff right here, then you've got significant

(07:32):
things that have been happening on the earth, right. I mean,
the water is all blood. There's been massive, massive upheaval,
upheavals to the point where it's just serious business. Right.
The idea that anybody could be making merry at that
moment and giving gifts, that there are even people to
give gifts is almost a hard thing to buy. Now.

(07:56):
On the other end, they're in that podcast again that
I'm Made, Bob had brought up this last line, which says,
the second woe has passed, behold the third woe is
to come. How that line takes place after John has
talked about the two witnesses. Now in the just the narrative,

(08:19):
this takes place between the sixth and seventh trumpets, and
this last line seems to pick back up into the
seventh trumpet. The second woe is it gets done talking
about the two witnesses, then it says the second one
is passed, Behold, the third woe is soon to come.
We'll talk about what the woes are in a minute,
but for now, they're basically the last three trumpets. And
there's nothing too significant about that, but as far as

(08:40):
I can tell right now. But the point is in
the narrative, this is sandwich between the sixth and seventh trumpet.
So Bob was saying, well, if this is tied to
that narrative with a hard tie in, then you have
the two witnesses prophesying between the sixth and seventh trumpet,
and therefore it is a must that this is a prophecy,

(09:04):
or that they are prophesying in the latter half of
the seventieth week of Daniel. So first of all, I
think one of the things I should say right at
the outset here is that a lot of people have
different views about this. This is by no means a
settled issue, even among prophecy experts, regardless of your take

(09:29):
on the timing of the rapture or what have you.
For example, here Bill Sallis has written an article in
twenty nineteen about the timing of the two witnesses. Bill
Sallis is a pre tribulationalist, and he mentions a few
things here. He says he ends up taking the first
half view in this article, that is to say, the

(09:50):
first three and a half years is when the is
when he believes that the two witnesses are prophesygning. And
we'll go through some of this, but he notes that
people like doctor Roads, I was at Ron Rhodes, John Walverd,
we no actually were rhads, and I think who does
he say, Tim Lahay take his position that the two

(10:13):
witnesses are in the first half of the seventy year period,
but he also notes here that people like Mark Hitchcock
and John Walverd take the opposite position, that is that
the two witnesses prophesy in the second half of the position.
And of course John Walbert and Mark Hitchcock are prominent

(10:34):
pre tribulationalists. He's a pre tribulationalist. So all this to
say that there's clearly disagreement within even within that camp.
I would say most of the pre wrathers of which
I am a part of, typically take and I didn't
really remember this until I did the research for this
typically take the latter half of you that I saw
a very early Perusia article in which Charles Cooper just

(10:58):
sort of matter of factly said that the two witnesses
were in the last half. I was just reviewing some
of what Albert Charpie, who made some really great graphs,
I think I have them. I'm going to be mentioning
them later on, and was really instrumental in helping me
early on understand the pre position. This is the graphs.

(11:21):
He also believes that the two witnesses prophesy in this
last half of the last three and a half years.
The other thing I will mention is okay, just in
terms of viewpoints. This is the only journal article that
I can find about the timing of the two witnesses.
It's called the Chronology of the Two Witnesses in Revelation eleven.
It's by John MacLean. It's from Bibliotheca Sacra in twenty eleven,

(11:44):
and he takes the position here that they are prophesying
in the last half of the seventieth week. I read
an article from John MacArthur who took neither position. He
said that the two witnesses were neither prophesying in the
beginning or the middle, but were at some unknown three

(12:07):
and a half year period before the seventieth Week even started,
which is a very difficult position to defend, in my opinion.
But the reason they do that is really because of
a lot of challenges that come up in the way
that pre tribulationalists have defined when the Day of the
Lord starts, and that causes some other issues. But all

(12:27):
that to say, there is a good deal of differing
of opinions on this point. So where do I want
to start here. I think the first thing, I'll go
back to that podcast. What we were saying is that
if the second woe is passed, all the third woes
to come. If this is a reference to these two

(12:48):
witnesses being a part of the chronology, that the sixth
trumpet happens, then the two witnesses happen, then the seventh
trumpet happens, then you necessity put these putting them at
the last half. But I would say, while I am
going to say in this podcast that they probably are
in the last half, I don't think that's what's happening here.

(13:10):
I don't think that this is a part of the chronology.
And I think it's like many other places in the
Book of Revelation where it's an interlude with an entire
biography that's not necessarily tied to that. And I would
point to two things to defend that. The first is
the time references themselves about the two witnesses and John says, they,

(13:32):
you know, talking about the trampling of the Holy City
for forty two months. He says, here's my two witnesses.
They will prophesy for one thousand, two hundred and sixty days.
Right there, you have an idea that this is a
biography about two guys, and it expands on their ministry
and talks about the entire three and a half years
of their ministry. This is giving us all the details,

(13:52):
what they can do, what will happen, you know, everything
from the beginning to the end, an entire three and
a half year picture. And that's the same kind of
thing that happens when the biography of the Antichrist and
the False Prophet, or the biography of the Woman in
the Dragon, or other biography chapters in the Book of
Revelation that are generally speaking tied in some way to

(14:13):
this last three and a half year period. So it's
very similar to that. And there's nothing in the narrative
here that connects this to it. In fact, it flows
quite naturally to be just a separate vision. So again
let me show you what I mean. So I was
talking about the trumpets happening first the third trumpet, fourth trumpet,
fifth trumpet, sixth trumpet, and then it kind of stops,

(14:36):
and it has this angel in the little scroll section
where John c's a mighty angel coming down, and basically
it kind of concludes that whole scene with this scene.
It says, then the voice that I had heard from
heaven spoke to me again, saying, go take the scroll
that is open in the hand of the angel who

(14:57):
is standing on the sea and on the land. So
I went to the angel and told him to give
me the little scroll, and he said to me, take
it and eat it, and it will make your stomach bitter,
but in your mouth it will be sweet as honey.
Then I took the little scroll from the hand of
the angel and ate it. It was sweet as honey in
my mouth. But when I'd eat it, and my stomach
was made bitter. And I was told, you must again

(15:18):
prophesy about many people's nations, languages, and kings. Then I
was giving a measuring rod like a staff and told
rise and measure the temple of God in the altar
your worship there. So John, in the midst of seeing
this vision of the six trumpets are being open and
very chronological. Then it then I sees another mighty Angel,
and this whole scene plays out where he's given a scroll.

(15:41):
Once he eats the scroll, then he's given a measuring
and told the to prophesy. Then he goes into the
scene of giving a measuring rod and going to measuring
a temple, and then describing the two witnesses and the
people trampling the temple for forty two months. So there's
no that in my mind is not is almost necessarily

(16:01):
disconnected from the chronology of the six and seven trumpets.
So all that to say, I'm going to argue for
these being in the latter half of the seventieth week,
but not because of a chronology related issue. I see
no reason to make that argument and to necessitate that

(16:22):
on the basis of this having to occur between the
sixth and seventh trumpets. Just really quick on what the
woes are. So the woes are the last three trumpets.
We get that idea back here in Revelation chapter eight,
verse thirteen. After the fourth trumpet is blown, it says,

(16:44):
then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with
a loud voice as it flew directly overhead. Woe, woe,
woe to those who dwell on the earth, and the
blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are
about to blow. So there's something particularly egregious about these
next three trumpets, right, and they are pretty bad. The
fifth angel blows his trumpet, shaft of the bottomless pit

(17:06):
opens up these scorpion like beings from the pit of hell,
torment people for five months, and the other two aren't
any better. So one thing about the Woes I don't
particularly understand is why they're singled out. I mean, certainly
they're worse than the previous four trumpets, but they aren't

(17:29):
worse than the bulls that come after that. And the
seventh trumpet introduces seven bulls, so we know that they're
not sort of the same thing, because the seventh trumpet
introduces the seven bulls, and then the bulls are clearly
much worse than these woes, or at least in my
metrics that I'm using, which may not be the correct metrics.

(17:50):
So I don't know why there woes. I don't know
the significance of why the last three trumpets are woes.
I don't think it necessarily comes into this question. Okay,
So what I want to do is this go back
to Bill Salas's article and to this paper, and I

(18:10):
want to talk about what they do. Basically in this
article and in this paper are go through the objections
to their views. And they both, as I said, hold
a different view. So it's a way for us to
really understand the different kinds of arguments. So Bill Sallie,

(18:32):
he says that the first thing that he says again
that he believes the two witnesses are in the first half,
and this is his reasoning the versus the timing of
the two witnesses. Excuse me. His first argument is the
counting of the worshippers in the temple. So this comes
from the first verse in Revelation eleven, which says, then

(18:54):
I was giving a measuring stick and told go and
measure the temple of God and the altar, and count
the number of the worshippers. But do not measure the
outer courtyard, for it has been turned over to the nations.
They will trample the Holy City for forty two months.
So he goes on to say counting the number of
worshippers in the temple won't happen until the second half
of the trip period because the temple worship will have

(19:16):
ceased by then then as a result of the Antichrist
abominating the temple and stopping the sacrifices and offerings, as
per Daniel nine twenty seven. Okay, so what he's trying
to say here, maybe he can pull up this chart here,
is that if Revelation eleven says that the you know,

(19:40):
he's got to go measure the temple, and he notes
worshipers in the temple, and this is all associated with
the two Witnesses, then if there's worshippers at the temple,
Bill Salis says, then it must be at the beginning
of the three and a half years, because the Antichrist
sits in the temple as God and ends the daily

(20:01):
sacrifice at that midpoint. So in Bill Salis's view, there
are no sacrifices or anything else going on after the midpoint.
And I feel like this, this one thing is a
big game changer to understand this, And I feel like
it's all part of maybe a little bit of this
hal Lindsay hangover that I talk about this is a

(20:23):
big aspect of that. I think a lot of people,
pre trippers, post trippers, pre rathers, pretty much everybody view
this event of the Abomination of Desolation as the Antichrist.
You know, he was pretending to be one thing or
another before then, but then at the midpoint he sort
of takes the masks off and says, I'm evil. Let's

(20:43):
stop all these temples and I guess you know, temple sacrifices,
and then just throws away the temple or whatever and say, Okay,
we're done with that, let's go be the Antichrist other places.
But I think that what he does is he stops
the daily sacrifice. That's what it is, this specific daily sacrile.
But the worship of the temple clearly doesn't stop there.

(21:06):
All this says is he counts worshipers in the temple.
The worship, in my point of view, starts at the midpoint.
It's when he begins to declare worship. Now we know,
for example that the false prophet in Revelation thirteen, let
me just go there. He demands that people worship he
causes both small and great, rich and poor. Let's see

(21:28):
the mark. It was telling them to make an image
for the beast that was wounded by the sword and
yet live. It was allowed to them to give breath
to the image of the beast, so that the image
of the beast might even speak and might cause those
who would not worship the end of the beast to
rise and be slain. So sometime we know that his
first declaration of deity is after the midpoint, I am God, right,
that's what he says after the midpoint. And then at

(21:50):
some point the false Prophet's going to really codify that
whole worship the Antichrist thing into a big system. You
got to get a mark. He's going to make an
image of the beast. You got to worship that image
of the bee. That whole scheme of worshiping Satan essentially
is pictured in Revelations seventeen and eighteen with Mystery Babylon.

(22:12):
So that's what Mystery Babylon is. It's a city. It's
the city that it's the antichrist capital city. But it
is the city being pictured that is getting the worship
of the world to come to the temple and worship

(22:32):
the Antichrist in the temple, actually specifically worshiping the image
of the Beast, I believe is what they're going to
actually put there. Not him himself. I'm assuming he's got
better things to do, but the image of the Beast,
and really the dragon behind that image is what's going
to receive the worship of the world. And that whole
system is after the midpoint. So and Mystery Babylon is

(22:53):
a picture of a massive deal happening in that last
three and a half years. And we know it's the
last three and a half years because worship of the
Antichrist can't even start until the midpoint, right, there's no
worship of the Antichrist pre midpoint. So the worship of
the antichristis post midpoint. And Mystery Babylon is a picture
of merchants becoming wealthy on specific items that I've in

(23:15):
a book that I wrote about Mystery Babylon go through
all those specific items and show that they are absolutely
crucial and the exact words in some cases of other
places in the New Testament that are things that are
needed specifically for temple sacrifices. So the merchants are getting
rich because the whole world is forced to go to
Jerusalem to worship the Antichrist and the temple with things

(23:37):
like gold, silver, precious stones, the very words that Daniel
says the Antichrist will require of his worship of his God,
the so called God of fortresses, which is a reference
to Satan. I believe in any case, all that to
say that Bill Salis's argument here that the counting of
the worshippers in the Temple is an argument against the

(24:00):
two Witnesses prophesying at the second half, because in Bill
Sallis's and that he lindsay, hangover view, all worship and
all things having to do with the Temple are just
stopped at the midpoint and it's just disregarded, never to
be thought of again, when in fact the Temple becomes
now the centerpiece of the entire world at the midpoint

(24:22):
in my view, and I would say that's a little niche,
But I also believe that it makes sense in your
heart to people. I think that when people hear that,
it just kind of clicks, because, especially if they know
Bible prophecy, because all they've got verses firing off in
their head, and they're like yeah, okay, well that makes
sense in that same at least that's what I hope

(24:44):
I suppose. Anyway, next one is just sort of a
pre trip problem he's got here. He says that they
can't be the two witnesses can't be prophesygned at the
at the latter half of the seventieth week, because Malachi
comes before the Day of the Lord. So I'm assuming
that he is assuming that one of the two witnesses

(25:06):
is Elijah, or excuse me, Elijah will come before the
Day of the Lord prophesied by Malachi and Malachi four,
and that one of the two witnesses is Elijah. And
I believe that too, or at least I strongly suspect
that one of the two witnesses will be Elijah. And
pretty much in my pre wrath view, which I'll pull

(25:26):
up a little pre wrath chart here, it doesn't really
matter if the two witnesses begin here at the beginning
prophesying or at the midpoint prophesying, because in either case,
wherever they begin, it will be before the Day of
the Lord in my view. But for people like MacArthur,
people like Bill Sallis, they have a much more difficult

(25:48):
time with this because of the pre triview that the
entire seventieth week of Daniel is the day of the Lord.
If you haven't yet, please check out the film that
I just got done making. Took about a year and
a half to make. It's called Seven Pretribed Problems. In
the pre Wrath Rapture, we interviewed scholars, We interviewed a
lot of people to show that that is an untenable view,

(26:09):
and pre tribbers know it. In the last decade or
so they've been trying to find ways to fix the
contradictions that result of it. Because of it. But in
any case, that is why Bill Salis says that Malachi's
prophecy about Elijah coming before the Day of the Lord
doesn't work. But that's just a pretrib problem. It's not

(26:30):
a problem for basically anybody but pretribbers. The seven Bold
judgments happen after the well it could be a problem
for mid trippers. I guess the seven Bold Judgments is
another argument he has. The seven Buld judgments happen after
the two witnesses ascend Heaven. This is a little more convoluted,

(26:50):
but I think the point that he's trying to make
here or at least one of the main points is
a good one. And this is one that I originally
had problems with, but then the more I thought about it,
the more I actually think it makes more sense, and
it is the idea. And he lists several terrible things
that are happening here after the bold with the bold judgments.

(27:11):
For example, sores will cover people who took the mark
of the beast in Revelation sixteen two. The seas and
waters will be turned into blood. There's gonna be no
fresh water left on the earth. Multitudes will be scorched
from intense heat, just people just being completely worn out
by the heat. Great darkness, intensifying, painful stress, great earthquakes,

(27:32):
world greatest earthquake in world history, these kinds of massive upheavals. Right,
So this kind of connects in my mind to the
original problem of how can people be like making merry
and sending gifts to one another? Like it says, you
know when the two witnesses are dying, Because if you

(27:54):
think about that, what that means is that the two witnesses,
if in the latter half view they started prophesying here
they prophesy for one two hundred and sixty days to
the end of the seventieth week they die, and then
there's three and a half year, three and a half
days after the end of the seven year period in

(28:16):
which they lay dead before resurrected, in which people are
making marry sending gifts, whatever. So people have problems with
this because of to mainly because I think this is
one of those areas that really gives you focus into
what the end times look like people that know. And
this isn't a pre trib pre wrath thing. This is

(28:38):
just one of the things that's kind of a very
complicated part of Bible prophecy that few people even consider
looking into. But Daniel and other places in scripture let
us know that there's actually a seventy five day period
between the end of the seven year period, the seventieth

(28:59):
week of Dan and the beginning of the millennium. And
that seventy five day period is broken up into two sections,
one that is thirty days long and one that is
forty five days long. And you can get this from Daniel.
He talks about the two hundred and sixty two hundred
and ninety thirteen thirty five days. So and then also,

(29:20):
but it's not just about Daniel. One of the great
things I got from Elbert Sharpie was this huge study
he did on the items that were happening during those
thirty day period in the forty five day period, and
he had it just amazingly plotted out with all these

(29:41):
obscure Old Testament references. It's actually quite interesting. But again,
this isn't just a pre wrath thing. This is a
thing that anybody can do, and it's a fascinating thing.
But let's just think about it logically first. So let's
go back to our little time timeline here, just to
show you that there is not only a possibility of

(30:03):
things happening, but these exact things happening in the time
after the seven year period. And I hope that it
gives you a little bit more focus into what the
world looks like at the end of that period, because
if you're like me, I just had this idea that hey, look,
the bold judgments have been poured out by the end
of the seventieth week. Who is going to be standing
or doing anything after that. Well, for one thing, there

(30:28):
are still enough what they call earth dwellers in that passage.
It's sort of a technical term for the people that
worship the beasts and got the mark and resist repentance
all the way up until the time of judgment and
Armageddon and ultimately the Great White Terne Judgment. But they're
still the Armageddon actually happens after the first thirty day period.
So Armageddon, you know, as a shorthand. I sometimes say

(30:50):
Armageddon happens at the end of the seventieth week, and
that's technically, you know, just a shorthand, but really it
occurs after the thirty day period, but before the forty
five day period. And again this is something that you
read in commentaries from pre tribbers and everybody else that
has done this kind of study. In Daniel, Armageddon takes
place there. So what happens in that thirty day period, Well,

(31:12):
a lot of people understand that the bulls are taking place,
most of the bowls take place in a very short
amount of time in that thirty day period. But nevertheless,
consider that armageddon Satan is able to gather I can't
remember the exact phrase, it's something like number as the
sand of the sea right to go to war against

(31:33):
the returning, victorious glorified Christ at Armageddon. So if you're
able to gather that many people to go to war
against Jesus at Armageddon thirty days after the seven year period.
You've certainly got enough people three days after the seven
year period to laugh at and rejoice at the two

(31:55):
witnesses death and to give gifts. There's still a lot
of people dwellers that are there to go to war,
and to that end, I would say there's also a
lot of people that didn't get the mark, that may
not be specifically Christians at this point, but never got
the mark, are still somehow alive. And we know that
because of the beamis Seat or excuse me, the sheep

(32:20):
and Goat judgment, and that people enter the millennium. And
the only way you can explain those alive people that
didn't die during the seventieth week that entered the millennium
is that they weren't saved. But I think as I
won't go into the whole thing about the sheep and
go judgment right now, but basically, there still are both

(32:40):
good and bad people at the end of Armageddon, and
all we really need is for there to be a
lot of bad people enough to mock and to give
gifts and to make marry. That the two Witnesses are
dead or for three and a half days anyway, So
that seems to be a non starter as far as
in our against it. He talks about the last little

(33:05):
bit of this article kind of get into what I
think are some pretty bad arguments. So, for example, he
says that the two Witnesses would be disobedient to God
if they prophesied in Jerusalem at the end of the
or after the abomination of desolation because of Matthew twenty
four fifteen through sixteen, Jesus tells his followers to flee

(33:26):
when they see the abomination of desolation, and he says, well,
if the two Witnesses are his followers, then they are
in Jerusalem after the abomination of desolation, then they didn't flee,
and therefore they would be disobedient, and they wouldn't be disobedient.
But that's a really terrible argument for a lot of reasons.
First of all, it specifically says in Revelation eleven that

(33:48):
they can't be killed for that time. People try to
kill them, but judgment comes upon those that try to
kill them. They're supernaturally protected from killing until the end
of that three and a half years, when they are
in fact killed and then you have the idea that
the reason that Jesus told people to flee was not
some overarching or flee because I just arbitrarily think you

(34:12):
should flee Jerusalem at this point, but it was for protection.
Don't go back and get your coat. Don't go if
you're pregnant or nursing, Woe to you, because you need
to get out of there, because this persecution, unlike any
other that's ever been since the time there was a
nation until this time, is about to happen. So leave,
get out, save yourself. If you don't need to save
yourself because you're supernaturally protected, you run into the fire,

(34:34):
not away from the fire. So they're not disobedience. And
another thing disobedient. And another thing he says is religious tolerance.
He says that if the Antichrist is entering the Temple
of God when he performs the abomination of desolation, and
then you got two witnesses prophesying after that, then the

(34:54):
Antichrist is tolerant of their religion. Again, I don't even
know what to make of that. I mean, clearly, again,
they are supernaturally protected from his hand and everybody else's
hand until the three and a half years is completed,
so if you wanted to, there's no tolerance of the
Antichrist in it. They can't be killed by the Antichrist.
They are tormenting the world, don't you think at any

(35:15):
whether it's the first or second three and a half years,
the Antichrist would want to kill these guys, but can't
do it. One of the things that kind of I
meant to bring up was the very miracles they did.
Sallus earlier said that they would you know, how are
they going to be prophesying when the waters are going
to be turned into blood? And that's interesting because that's

(35:36):
a characteristic. It's one of the powers that they have.
It says they have the power over the waters to
turn them into blood and to strike the earth with
every kind of plague as often as they desire. So
if they are in the second half, this would make
some sense in that they take part or of in
the judgments as a part of the Day of the

(35:58):
Lord as well. It would mean that they really are
start prophesying before the Day of the Lord, but then
continue their prophecies well into the Day of the Lord too,
and then perhaps the judgments that they torment the earth
dwellers with remember that earth dwellers are mad because they
tormented them, and that could be a part of that

(36:18):
with specific things like turning water into blood, which is,
as I mentioned, a part of the great the bold judgments.
So Salas kind of fizzles out after those arguments. There's
a few other things, but for the most part, that's
his arguments and can be pretty much chalked up in
my mind to either just because he's a pre tribber.
There's some issues with the time end of the Day
of the Lord that are incompatible with that, And in

(36:42):
Salas's defense, he has done a lot of odd things
to try He has recognized a lot of the problems
in pre tribulationalism and has done a lot of things
that other pretribbers haven't done to try to accommodate that.
For example, he recognizes that the Fifth Seal martyrs in
and Revelation six that they can't that the Day of

(37:03):
the Lord can't have started by then because they're Christians,
and that would mean that they were being in the
Day of the Lords, and which is a big problem
for pre tribbers. So he's the only one that I
know of that says Okay, let's just move the seals
outside of the sap of the week of Daniel, which
is a really dumb thing to do, but at least
he's doing it for a good reason that he recognizes
that there's a major problem with pre tribbers declaring that
the entire seventieth week is the day of the Lord

(37:25):
God's wrath. So we've covered a lot of the things
in this paper. I do recommend it. You do have
to pay for it. Galaxy Software Chronology of the Two
Witnesses in Revelation eleven by John MacLean from Bibliothekasakar. I
tried to find a free version online. It's just not there,
but it's good sort of call and response. He basically

(37:45):
is giving arguments against it, and he has responses to that.
Some of them are pretty good. One of the things
I do want to mention specifically is this one the
repentant attitude of the people. So again he's sort of
given the counter argument. Again he believes that the two
Witnesses are at the end of the seventieth week, and

(38:08):
then he's going to refute it. So he says, when
seven thousand, oh, you know what, I forgot to say,
a pretty important part of this as well, But I
guess I'll finish this up first. When the seven thousand
people in Jerusalem will die from an earthquake, the survivors
will be terrified and give glory to God. Hodges argues
that this does not harmonize with the unrepentant and hostile

(38:28):
attitude that will prevail at the second coming of Christ.
Although most people will not repent under God's judgment, a
remnant will repent and accept Messiah before his second coming.
These people will help to populate the millennial Kingdom. They
will be saved and give glory to God. So that's
basically the point is that that is a pretty interesting
sort of phrase that the earthquake that happens at the

(38:50):
very end when the two Witnesses are resurrected from the dead,
an earthquake happens, seven thousand people die. He says that
the repentance of the people that saw the people die
or the earthquake is inconsistent with the detractors said it
would be inconsistent with the second half prophesign of the
two Witnesses, but in my mind it would be inconsistent

(39:13):
with the first half as well, depending on your position
and when the Day of the Lord starts. But again
going back to this little timeline of the thirty days
and forty five day period, it's not you have a
lot of consolidation happening. And again I really can't recommend
enough this Albert Sharpie study. His website is pre wrath
Ministries dot com. He has a book called The Return

(39:35):
in which he did details a lot of this stuff.
But basically, the first thirty day period is basically judgment.
The forty five day period is kind of preparation for
the millennium, consolidation and different things happening. But all that
to say, there is repentance, There is people going into
the millennium and all that getting prepared, and a lot
of odd things happening, restoration and all kinds of things

(39:56):
during that thirty days. So I don't see any problem
with there being glory being given to God by certain groups,
these groups that will be going into the millennium or
whatever they're especially at the timeline because in that timeline
you're three and a half days into the thirty day period,
when all that would essentially be starting to be consolidated
with the repentance of the remnant and ultimately the preparation

(40:20):
of the forty five day period and the millennium. But
I forgot sort of I've done this. I had some
technical problems, So I've already done this study once and
I led off last time with the main argument I
would say for this person's position, and really it probably
becomes my main argument for the two witnesses being in

(40:42):
the first half as well. So John McLean Ambibliotheca Sacra,
and I think I have this in PDF form somewhere. Yeah,
let's see if I can make that a little smaller
here for you. So he he basically centers his argument

(41:02):
around the use of time indicators in not just Revelation eleven,
but other parts of the text. Time indicators like things
like one two hundred and sixty days, forty two months.
And I'm just going to read this whole kind of
interaction of again that he quotes his detractor, and then

(41:23):
he sort of answers it, says Witcham comments, there seems
to be an intentional distinction between the time of the
gentile occupation of the temple's outer court and the city
and the time of the two witnesses by means of
the different time units used forty two months for gentile
domination in one thousand, two hundred and sixty days for
the two witnesses. So his detractor is trying to say, well,

(41:44):
maybe forty two months refers to like one half and
one thousand, two hundred and sixty days refers to another half.
Maybe that's why it just doesn't say one thousand, two
hundred and sixty days both times or three. You know,
just doesn't use the same types of time reference. And
he answers that by saying the Bible does not distinguish

(42:05):
by means of names the time period of three and
a half years in the tribulation. If Whitcomb's interpretive principle
were applied to Revelation eleven through twelve, it would lead
to the obvious misunderstanding of an obvious misunderstanding of the text.
The woman Israel will be protected by God from the
dragon for two hundred and sixty days in verse twelve six.

(42:25):
This is exactly the same phrase in eleven three regarding
the time of the two witnesses. The woman will be
nourished for a time times and half a time from
the presence of the serpent in twelve fourteen, and the
serpent dragon is given authority to act for forty two
months in thirteen five. All these phrases referring to three.
Are these phrases referring to three different time periods. No,

(42:46):
because there's no intentional distinction between the phrases. They are
used interchangeably. Actually, four phrases are used in the scripture
for the same time period. A time time and a
half time Daniel seven to twenty five twelve seven, Revelation
twelve fourteen, A half a week danieln twe twenty seven,
forty two months Revelation eleven two and thirteen five, and
one thousand, two undred and sixty days in Revelation eleven, thirteen,
eleven three, and twelve six. These terms should be understood

(43:09):
as synonymous, all referring to the same time period, namely
the second half of the tribulation. So I of course
agree with that. And it kind of got me thinking,
what was I even thinking in the first place, thinking
that this one thout because in Revelation eleven about the
two witnesses, it mentions forty two months and one thousand,

(43:29):
two hundred and sixty days, And that would if in
every other place in Revelation like Revelation thirteen, Revelation twelve specifically,
and of course Daniel Well specifically in revelation let's say,
Revelation eleven, thirteen twelve. All when they refer to the
three and a half year period, they're doing so, and

(43:51):
everybody knows it's about the last half. Nobody questions that,
of let's say there's seven of these references, that the
other six are referring to the last half of the
seventieth week of Daniel. When they're talking about three and
a half years, everybody understands that. So if these two
witnesses were prophesying in the first half the first twelve
hundred and sixty days, it would constitute the only time

(44:14):
I know of that not only that that time period
is a reference to the first three and a half years,
but it would also constitute the only mentioned in the
Bible other than Daniel nine twenty seven, where anything specific
about the first three and a half years is ever mentioned. Now,
while that's not impossible of a thing to happen, I
can't it doesn't ring true for sure that all of

(44:37):
a sudden, out of nowhere, the twelve hundred and sixty
days refers to the first three and a half years.
Only other time in the Bible that it's specifically called
out is important in any way other than the fact
that Daniel nine twenty seven says he starts a covenant
at the beginning of the week. We're not really told
any specifics. We can infer some things that happen in
that first three and a half years, but as far
as the Bible's focus, it's one hundred percent focused on

(45:01):
that midpoint and afterwards. So his again in this paper
is main His main thing is that it is a
thing that happens at the at the end, because it's
consistent with all the other mentions of this time period.
And I think it's a good I think it's a
good argument. Again, I probably should have led with that.

(45:22):
So let me just kind of go over real quick
the what that timeline looks like or would look like, uh,
and just use this as a visual aid here. I
don't didn't think to get too good of an image here.
So the two witnesses would start at the midpoint here.
This would be the Antichrist declares himself to be God.

(45:44):
He probably resurrects from the dead somewhere around here or
apparently resurrects from the dead, and then he goes through
they begin prophesying really at the Green Tribulation, so the
killing starts. Really, the whole world has now turned one
hundred percent against Christianity and to the point of killing

(46:08):
them to a great extent. And in this moment of
great killing of Christianity shows two guys who can't be
killed right in the midst of everything, telling them that
they're doing wrong, and up until the point when the
Day of the Lord happens, and presumably and again I'm

(46:28):
sort of inferring this, they join in on the plagues
and the turning the water into blood and everything that
happens after the Day of the Lord actually starts. They
then are killed once the sort of protection that they
have for the twelve hundred and sixty days is removed.
They are killed at the very end when Israel is reconciled,

(46:48):
because that's what actually happens at the end of the
seventieth week, is Israel is reconcile. That certainly happens at
the very moment that the seven year period ends, and
a half days later, they are resurrected from the dead,
and after everybody you know gave gifts and thought that
they were dead. They do a rise from the dead,

(47:11):
earthquake happens. It really shakes some people to their core.
They changed their mind. Give glory to God. Perhaps I
don't know exactly what the giving glory to God is
all about, but then you have what twenty six and
a half days later, Armageddon happens. Is Satan's last ditch
effort to gather nations to battle against Christ. And then

(47:33):
of course you have the forty five day period in
which they're mostly consolidation of that. Again, I recommend this
seventy five day periods Evolation, Remnant, Final Wrath of God.
The BBC this is the thirty day and forty five
days listed on the screen. Here what Albert Sharpie has
in the terms of the timeline events.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Hi, everybody, it's me Relax. You are listening to the
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(48:21):
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