In this ground breaking and deeply moving episode, Sula joins to share for the first time publicly the harrowing truth about how her childhood therapist was not a healer but a programmer. Beginning at just 3 years old, Sula was subjected to hypnosis, soul-fracturing abuse, and constructed inner worlds as part of a broader scheme of spiritual and psychological control. Dan and Sula uncover the disturbing intersection of ritual abuse, occult initiation, and Disney-themed programming—including false safe places and sexualized internal constructs. Sula opens up about how this foundation of trauma made her vulnerable to further trafficking, spiritual assault, and end-times programming. But her story does not end in trauma. Sula boldly testifies to the power of Jesus Christ to redeem, restore, and deprogram the most shattered soul offering not only insight but hope to survivors and those working in trauma-informed care.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
You are listening to the Fringe radio network franradionetwork dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I started in therapy at three, discovered that I had
different personalities and parts. This therapist she was actually a programmer,
but she started doing hypnosis. The first location like a
purple place of purple is connected to like end of
world programming. Inside the warehouse looks like a nightclub.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
So you went from being abused by these perpetrators.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
And there's demonic stuff happening in my body responding sexually
to this therapist programming and ritual abuse stuff was happening
in the spirit realm. My body was like frozen and
numb while these things were happening.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
You're listening to Discovering Truth with Dan Deval. Hey, friends,
we got an awesome show for you today. Before we
(01:23):
get started, I just want to remind all of you
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(01:44):
at dandavall dot com. And so we're gonna get started,
don't go anywhere. We're back on Discovering Truth with Dan
Deval and I am sitting here with a very special person.
Her name is Sula. She's joined me once before. She's
a transformational strategists, trafficking survivor expert and empowerment consultant committed
(02:07):
to equipping individuals, nonprofits and service providers in the anti
trafficking movement. She herself is a survivor of trafficking to
Hollywood the ultra rich. That was some of the things
that we talked about the first time that I was
with her. She has a book called The Una Shane
Bride and several websites Sula lel dot com and take
(02:35):
Flight Survivors Sula. We're already emoting and crying and shedding
tears and the presence of God. It's so good at you.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh my goodness, Dan, thank you so much for having
me back. And just thank you you and your wife
and your team for all that you've done as forerunners
in pioneers in this work. Just want to start out
the gate by just saying I honor you have a
lot of respect for you and really thankful to be here.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So yeah, well we're thankful to have you. We have
a lot to talk about Sula a lot. We have
a lot to talk about it. And I kind of
want to just dive in on the anti trafficking movement itself,
because this has been a space that you came into
(03:24):
as a survivor. Now you're on the other side advocating
for survivors, and you've met a lot of people in
this space. Absolutely, and I think that this is a
space where you have a lot of service providers that
don't fully understand the problem they're trying to solve or
(03:44):
minister into. I think you would.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Agree, yes, absolutely, So.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I'm going to start off with asking the question why,
oh wow.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, I feel like we are in another wave of
awareness in our nation, really the world, similar to in
two thousand when the TVPR came out and you know,
we started having language for what sex trafficking is. At
(04:16):
that time, I mean, we as survivors were still getting arrested,
treated like prostitutes, crack hos or whatever during that time,
you know, criminalized, and that's when our nation started waking
up and you started having language for what was happening,
and it's like, oh, wow, were now we were being victimized,
and now there's laws you know that were coming out
(04:36):
and conversation and the nation really woke up to what
sex trafficking was. And I feel like right now we
are in another wave of awareness regarding ritual abuse in
the anti trafficking space specifically. And I know you've been
pioneering this work, you and your ministry for many years,
but I would say in the anti trafficking space, this
(04:58):
is just now starting to come to the surface. So
for individuals that have been in the anti trafficking movement
for some time, that's challenging that there's a whole new
demographic of people being victimized in a way that they
just don't necessarily understand. And so without survivor voices and
(05:23):
without more conversation around these topics, you actually do have
a divide. You've got some in the anti trafficking space
that are saying that ritual abuse, occult ritual abuse, occult crimes,
satanic ritual abuse is just a mental health psychosis and
that it's not actually real and this is so damaging
(05:46):
to the lives of survivors that are actually seeking help
and struggle to even get the words out to say
what happened to them, And then now they're being told, Oh,
it has to be schizophrenia, or it has to be
some type of mental health psychosis. It's really all in
your head. It's just I've just seen how damaging that's
been to so many. And we now have statistics coming out,
(06:09):
like you know, even Rescue America that about twenty percent
of the survivors that call the hotline seeking help with
escaping their traffickers have these experiences in their background. So
this is like so much more prevalent than people realize.
Yet there are some that are saying that it's just
mental health, which is really painful to hear.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Well, and I would add, right, because you throw out
that twenty percent that know that that's in their back
because when you add the dissociation layer on top of this, Yeah,
how many traffic survivors don't remember right or it's intentionally
walled off?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
What is the consequence of this lack of understanding?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, I would say the greatest consequence that and this
is grieving. This is so grieving. I mean, I think
the greatest consequence is that a survivor that hasn't been believed, well,
I'll share to you actually, Number one, they don't feel
(07:20):
like there's hope because now the people that they're entrusting
to help them don't believe them. Number Two, I see
a lot of this happening in faith based organizations or
spaces and the anti trafficking movement, And it would cause
somebody that has experienced ritual abuse in their background to say,
(07:43):
I don't want this Jesus that you guys are talking about.
And that is an eternal consequence. And so so many
times when I'm working with survivors, like a lot of
the conversation and the prayer and the work is centered
around them being able to just trust the true Jesus.
(08:04):
And I know there's a lot of reasons why, but
if they've met people that have misrepresented him, even you know,
well meaning people in the anti trafficking space, it makes
it so much harder to get to him. It's like
when Jesus was literally flipping tables and like confronting the
Sadducees and the Pharisees and religious leaders, and he said, like,
(08:27):
woe unto you. You make it hard for people to
enter into the Kingdom. You make it hard, and that's
what I see happening, and it's like, it's just it's
it's really really, it's horrible.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
So you're basically contending, and I agree that it is
a misrepresentation of Jesus for a faith based organization that
wants to help survivors of human trafficking to come back
and say we're going to disqualify your memories of lived
experiences that include occult and ritual abuse. Yeah, thank you
(09:12):
for saying it. And you know, because my perspective of this,
I've been working with survivors of SRA and deep occult
backgrounds for over a decade, so that has been my
whole frame of reference, and my entry into the trafficking
space actually comes by way of how many of the
survivors of occult and ritual abuse are also trafficked as
(09:36):
part of that experience. What I didn't realize that I'm
coming around to is how much the occult methods of
mind control and abuse have been worked into the strategies
that the pimps and the handlers are using. It seems across.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
The definitely, Yeah, I mean there's like training on how
to be a pimp that talks about breaking someone's soul
and breaking their mind, you know. And so, yeah, one
hundred percent. Last time we talked you, I remembered you
saying something. You said something along the lines of sex
trafficking is programming. And I don't know why I'd never
(10:21):
thought about that before, but one hut before we had
that talk, but oh my gosh, pimps and traffickers are
literally training you on what to do, what not to do,
code words, doing it in a certain way like it's
it literally is a type of programming. One n So yeah,
(10:42):
and I just feel like for individuals that are saying
that that just can't wrap their minds around this being real.
It's like you would have to go really far to
omit world history and biblical history to say that this
is only a mental health psychosis. It's actually in the Bible.
(11:05):
Sr trafficking is in the Bible. So as a believer
to say, oh, no, this is just mental health psychosis,
then you have to throw away parts of scripture. You
have to throw away everything that Hitler did. You have
to throw away all the unclassified government documents that are
country you know, all of the projects that you have
to throw away a whole lot to rest on that stance,
(11:27):
And so I would just say for people to do
their own research before just accepting someone's narrative on this topic,
because what I found as I started digging into the works,
I'm like, Lord, just show me. I'm a word girl.
I love the Bible. The Bible was part of my
personal deprogramming process with getting in the word of God
and experiencing the word of God. And the Lord showed
(11:48):
me that the you know, the pagan rituals of the
Old Testament, like literally what would happen? And there's scriptural
references to this, and there's also historical references that parallel
the Bible, different travelers and historians you know along that
time that speak about this as well. But there would
be a pagan temple. A family would dedicate their child,
(12:10):
male or female to the pagan temple in order to
be a shrine prostitute. And there's various words that were
used in the word for that, but they didn't have
the word trafficking back then. They didn't have the words
ritual abuse back then. And so they would be dedicated
to that deity, to that godess, to whoever that pagan
of that temple was in service to that demonic entity,
(12:35):
and the people of the area would come and have
ritual sex with these victims and pay donations to the temple. Yes,
so you have sex trafficking because there's an exchange of value.
And then they're thinking, these people coming doing these fertility
rituals or whatever they're doing, are thinking their crops are
going to prosper, their land is going to prosper, their
(12:57):
families are going to prosper if they're in good with
that demon that that ritual ritually abused victim, sex trafficking
victim is now completely tethered to and sexually servicing all
of these individuals. And so it's like it's all over
the world. Even God said had to tell the people, like,
(13:18):
don't bring me any ritual, like don't bring me any
offerings that you got through like shrine prostitution and like rich,
like don't bring that over here. He actually had to
tell the people not to do that because it was
just so common. It's all over the Old Testament, it's
in the New Testament. And that's the same process that
I see today. I mean with sra trafficking, it's like
(13:41):
it's splitting, it's fracturing the soul of victims, tethering those
different parts to different demonic entities programming them. And then
when they are being trafficked, sold, exploited, those individuals are
coming into agreements and covenants and those demons get access
to their life. It's really the easiest way for demons
to spread is through fornication and through sexual perversion and
(14:04):
rape and assault. Like it's like a direct say doesn't
even have to build up a whole. You don't even
got to tell lies. So it's like it's like if
you really if you're a believer and you're saying this
isn't true. I just want to challenge and encourage to
please get in the word and get into some world
history because we can't with.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
The harvest of survivors that are out there, and child
survivors being abused by MS thirteen gang members and cartels,
and we know a lot about that like that are
out there.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Who do you think those gangs serve? Like there's there's
ritual abuse happening with hundreds of thousands of children and
adults in our own country. Yes, So if we as
service providers, as the church, as the Bride of Christ,
don't understand this stuff. What are we going to do
(15:01):
with this harvest? Because they're coming.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Out, Well, they're absolutely coming out. And that's I think
that we're going to see a greater exodus of traffic
survivors in the next few years than we've ever seen before.
And I think that there's a lot, a lot is
going on in the spirit world that's facilitating that personally. Paul
(15:25):
in his letters to the First and second first and
second Corinthians, though the letter to the Corinthian Church, many
have suggested the reason why he was spending so much
time dealing with like sexual sin in those letters is
because of the temple that was in corinth Yes, where
it is. It is suggested by some historical references exactly
(15:46):
what you're saying, there was temple prostitution. I've always wondered
as well. There's another story in the Book of Judges
where a guy takes his wife and they travel through
the land of Benjamin and then they are baseasically wanting
the guy, but he throws his wife out to them,
and then they abused her until morning and she is
then dead, and it is an awful story. I have
(16:10):
always assumed that abuse included elements of satanic and ritual
abuse because it killed her. Yeah, she didn't survive it.
And you know, so when you talk about biblical references,
I mean yes, yes, sister, Yes and amen. Now you
(16:30):
mentioned something that I want to just ask you a
little bit more about. You said they there is training
for pimps on how to break the soul. Now is
this something you have firsthand knowledge of?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah. Now I didn't want to go into like reading
the books, but there are books out there on how
to do this. Yes, and that's just regular sex trafficking
pimp culture.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
There are books, like publicly available books, yes, like you could.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Buy and anybody going to read them. But yes, they
are publicly available books on like how to break the soul,
how to control victims. Yes, and that's just from a
sex trafficking standpoint. That's not it's not they're not talking
about ritual abuse or mind control programming, but it is
(17:24):
mind control programming.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Colley. You know, I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm kind
of surprised. I've never read obviously one of these books.
But wow, So they just buy these book if someone
wrote it, they give it out, they use it, They
train these people.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
They train they train younger pimps on how to do this.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, so you were your self trafficked and and you
were trafficked to Hollywood wealthy and handler and and I
guess today I want to ask this question, did your
(18:08):
trafficking include elements of occult and ritual abuse? And if so,
where did it begin?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Absolutely, And even before I answered that, I just want
to again say thank you for this space and opportunity
to talk about it, because I've shared my story since
twenty ten in the anti trafficking space. But what I'm
going to share today I've never shared. So it's not
in any of my books, it's not in any trainings.
This is the first time that I'm even going to
go into some of these details. And so so yeah, wow,
(18:44):
the for me in the beginning of life really you know,
my you know, my mom was single, hard working mom,
going to school, you know, working to make a living
for us, So she had to trust people to watch me.
So from eighteen months old to three years old was
(19:06):
my first exploitation and a ritual abuse experience. So I
was a toddler being watched and dressed with this family
and they were actually exploiting me. And so they had
like all of these different mattresses on the floor upstairs,
and my first memories of even being alive are being
moved from mattress to mattress to mattress, in adults in
(19:28):
big body parts, in me hiding, trying to hide, being
pushed on their comforters, being taught that oral sex with
adults is normal. And so that's what I thought was,
you know, okay, this is just part of life.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
It was.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
How else could I have survived that without splitting or
fracturing because I was a baby, And so my mom
ended up finding out when I asked her to give
me oral sex one day at three years old, because
that's what my abusers said, you're supposed to do. And
(20:14):
so mixed in with the sexual exploitation was also really
being initiated into the occult and so it was very
so for me my memories of physical abuse were I
experienced equally things in the spirit realm as well. So
(20:34):
it was common for me to have different occult members
coming into my room at night by way of astral
projecting in and hurting me even when I wasn't at
their house, abusing me, hurting me in the spirit realm,
and demons coming and raping me, and then also me
(20:58):
being taken to places, so nighttime was worse than they
for me. And you didn't I didn't have to be
in the physical location with them to still be hurt
and ritually abused and programmed, because once they initiated me
(21:19):
in the spirit realm was wide open, and you know,
other types of abuse started.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Now there are a lot of people that deal with
exactly what you're talking about. We can apply certain terms
astral rape, sleep paralysis leading to astral rape. We could
apply the terms spirit husbands and spirit wives are just
spirits spouses. People are suffering because they're going through these
(21:49):
kinds of experiences. It's it's violating, it's demoralizing. There's a
lot of people that don't know how to make it
stop permanently. And I get a lot of those phone
calls people will show asking me for help on these things.
Do you believe that what opened the door to that
harassment in your life was the physical abuse that these
(22:12):
people perpetrated.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
You know, that's an interesting question because I think there's
probably two answers to that. So I think that there
was an initiate, like an official initiation because of the
abuse that was happening. But I also had to do
a lot of like I had to work through praying
(22:35):
off stuff that was on my generational lines and stuff too,
Like my grandma on my biological father's side, who I
didn't grow up knowing him, but she was full blood
Maroon from Jamaica. And these are the slaves that got
freedom from the British and escaped and they used a
cult to occult power in witchcraft to get away from
(22:58):
the British and they ended up getting their own Maroon
territory in Jamaica because the British were so terrified to
even approach him anymore because of the level of the
occult in shape shifting and stuff that they were doing.
And they really took a lot of pride in their
community because of getting liberated and getting free from slavery.
But they were also very much about like you don't
(23:21):
you know, like being full blood Maroon was like a
huge honor to have not had mixture with any other
you know. And so I had that and I had
other stuff on you know, both sides. I had stuff
generationally that I had to deal with. So I think
that I that my the generational occult witchcraft, freemasonry, things
(23:44):
on my generational lines that made me vulnerable and attractive
in the spirit realm to Satan. And then when the
abuse started, I believe that was like the official access
point of Okay, now let's just bring everything upon her,
if that makes sense. And so I even remember like
(24:07):
one of the one of the experiences was like rotating
my soul to face down and now have an open
view of hell while I was physically being abused, And
so it was like they were intentionally splitting and fracturing
my soul through the abuse that they did.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Eighteen months to three years old. Yes, so you have
a memory of this is happening to you. Yes, and
then your soul turns and you're actually looking dimensionally.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
They sin, they spun my soul or rotated my soul
to the point where then now I'm facing down into
realms of hell and seeing and witnessing all kinds of
really disgusting, horrible stuff which I won't go fully into detail,
but really horrific things. And so that's what I was
(24:59):
looking at while my body was physically being abused, and
while there was ritual activity happening in the room in
the natural.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
So did your mom separate you from these abusers at.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Three, Yes, thankfully, because whenever she found out when I
asked her for oral sex at three, she started an
investigation like we got of course, got me away from
there and then found therapy, which was that's a whole
nother story for me at three, and so she handled
(25:41):
it really well in the best way she knew how.
And when I started in therapy at three, it was
very quickly discovered that I had different personalities and parts.
And so the therapist when she would talk to me,
(26:02):
I would like be turning to part. She would be
asking me about questions about the things I went through,
and I would turn it. I would talk to that
part of me to be like she wants to know this,
you know. And my mom always just thought I had
like imaginary friends, not knowing I was all of the
imaginary friends, Like I was speaking to myself, you know,
I was interacted with myself. But that was really exciting
(26:31):
to this therapist because she in Berkeley, she was actually
a programmer, and so she started doing hypnosis and when
she realized that I had different soul parts, she started
doing different types of therapy, which involved programming, which involved
(26:56):
bringing me. The first location that she brought me into
was like a purple place, like all the trees had
like like the purple flowers on them, and she told
me that she was establishing a safe place that I
could always come back here, all my parts should always
come back here. But it was really a starting place
(27:17):
and a programming location. So progressing further into that purple place,
there was also a warehouse, and inside the warehouse, when
you first come in, it kind of looks like a nightclub,
and inside you're spiraling from one room, one programming room
to the next all the way inside kind of like
(27:38):
one of those like like the spiral staircase, or like
a nautilus shell, if you were to cut open a
nautilus shell, Like that's what the inside of this programming
location looked like. And so that when she realized I
had fractured personalities and soul parts, that was her like
(27:58):
her initial established of like an internal world for me,
and I later found out that like all of the
purple that was used in that is connected to like
end of world programming and stuff, and so it was
like I had a lot of experiences of being taken
(28:20):
there after she opened that up and established that and
led me there and saw that I had the ability
to be led in the spirit realm and that my
parts could handle that kind of stuff. That just opened up,
you know, a whole other thing.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
So you went from being abused by these perpetrators to
being placed with a therapist that was a programmer, and
she then took the opportunity to help you build an
inner world where you could be further programmed.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
And it's just and it's so sick because well, for
so many for so many reasons, but she even did
something with like Disney. She was an overweight, heavy set woman.
No judgment at all to anybody's body shapes. I'm just
for reference sharing, because she ended up utilizing like Disney
(29:25):
programming and did some weird thing to create within me,
like a sexual attraction to Ursula in the movie Aerial,
in the programming that's in that movie. So at three
years old, there's demonic stuff happening in my body responding
(29:45):
sexually to this therapist who did something in her programming
to cause me to respond that way to her and
to the programming in that movie. And I don't know
if it's now that I'm thinking about, I don't know
(30:06):
if if Ursula being purple also has something to do
with that too.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
But now I have to ask a question, Yeah, did
she access and abuse you too?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
That's a really good question. Maybe we can talk a
rat about that further another time. I mean, I have
to I have to assume that there was sexual abuse
that happened during that programming, And a lot of the
things that I remember is while I was focused on
(30:41):
being programming being programmed, sorry, that there were other things
happening physically while I'm in locations, and that happened with
the occult ritual abuse and with the programming, because I
don't know, I don't think it's possible for there to
be a physical sexual response to Disney Princess programming without
(31:02):
also physically things happening to me while I was being
taken to different realms and programmed in different ways.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Thank you for the way that you're explaining this and
breaking it down. You're doing a great job.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
It's a lot.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
End of the world programming now. So I've been helping
people deprogram with the power of Jesus Christ for over
a decade and we've gone so many places. And even
the fact that you bring up ursula. That's like, you know,
underwater Kingdom, And I'm gonna leave that off the table
for now. But one of the common themes that's come
(31:44):
up over and over again is end time programming, which
has to do with globalists, which have to do with
elite powers of darkness and their anti Christ agendas to
bring about the end of the age their way and
to use the programmed survivor population that they've been able
(32:05):
to perpetrate their agenda on to help. And so we
run into a lot of end times programming. Now you
to use the term end of the world programming, what
does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I think it's I think it's the same probably, just
different different terminology for the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. And
for me, it also included like false Jesus programming as well.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
So for me, I had I had a lot of
experiences of a false Jesus showing up and like raping
me and sexually abusing me and really just disgusting perverted
views of this false Jesus with erections and things like that.
(32:57):
So for me, that was connected in with the end times,
end of the world, with all of that programming. And
so when I did get saved, I had to work
through all of that junk because it was like I
knew that there was truth in the word, but when
(33:21):
I would pray well, first of all, when I first
got saved, all hell broke loose in my life with
all of the everything just started kicking, you know, kicking
up in the spirit room like like wild. But I
had to really work through navigating that space because the
real Jesus Yeshua is not a rapist, He's not perverted,
(33:45):
he's not nasty, he's not any of those things. And
so that that was connected to that programming and several
other locations that I was brought after. I think like
the groundwork was laid in my first in those first
experieniances of abuse. Then it was like most of the
programming and ritual abuse stuff was happening in the spirit
(34:07):
realm from then on. So I was with that that
programmer for six months, so a lot was established during
that time, and then after that a lot of it
was just in the spirit realm. So I was going
through my testimony of all the stuff happening in the natural,
you know, and continuing to end up in trafficking situations,
(34:28):
continuing to struggle with the dissociative, fractured parts, continuing to
struggle with substance abuse and horrible abusive relationships, and but spiritually,
I was continuing to struggle with being pulled to different
realms at night, and you know, those horrible things happening
(34:52):
in the programming, that was just continuing to happen in
the spirit realm, and and in things where like waking
up from nightmares and I'm like, that was real, So.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
You know, and on that point, and I've said this
another context before, but one of the scariest realities of
this world is that our experience and ability to be
heard in abuse is not limited to the physical three
D world. And that's I think something that the anti
trafficking movement needs to start taking extremely seriously, because you
(35:30):
know that the understand like some people have such a
basic understanding. It's like, Okay, let's find a good looking
Hollywood guy. He's gonna go and save the children by
shooting someone that's a really bad person in the head.
That's a great film. And when we get those kids
out of that situation, we'll put them in a good
(35:51):
place and they'll be happy from that point forward. Happily ever,
as they're saved. They've been saved, and what the what
that story doesn't include is what happens when that kid
goes tonight to bed that night and their abuses show
up and continue hitting them. Because they all astra project,
they remote view, they have abilities in the occult world,
(36:13):
they send demonic agents against them, and the kids still
torment and can be pulled out of body and take
into locations in the spirit world and in the physical
world on the astral plane to then go through further rituals.
I mean at any ritual site of this something I've
(36:35):
learned because I've worked with people that have survived the
occult so long. You will have maybe you have thirteen
people in a coven and they start to do a
ritual at a location. They have their altar, they have
their books, they have their candles or whatever their elements
of witchcraft are. But there may be a hundred people
there in the spirit world in their astral form. Yes,
(36:59):
So at that ritual site where this evil is occurring,
some of those people are there because they're intentionally going
there and that's what they do as witches or warlocks.
And then there are victims that are being pulled out
of body and trafficked to those locations to be abused
with the events occurring in the physical but in the spirit. Yeah,
(37:22):
and all of this causes damage, like none of it
is without consequence. And I think that is where you
can't really separate the anti trafficking movement from the agenda
of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
There's no way. I mean, I I see survivors struggle,
I feel like so much longer without Jesus. Then survivors
(38:02):
that I know that encounter Jesus and the true One,
the real One, and start their healing journey, because there's
just it's too complex when you talk about abuse happening
with the soul and fractured parts, when you talk about
the spirit man and all and the abuse happen happening
with your spirit and then also phys like body, soul
(38:25):
and spirit, Like you can't just address the body and
the mental health. Like there's it's so multifaceted. And the
power of the Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus came to
establish the realm of the Kingdom bringing heaven on earth
was like such good news. Not only the death, burial,
(38:49):
and resurrection of Jesus, but the Kingdom of Heaven being
established on earth because being trafficked and exploited, whether you've
experienced the ritual abuse site or not, you have experienced
realms of hell, whether you know it or not, being
exploited by Satan, by people under Satan's influence, and so
coming out of so much darkness. And even if you
(39:12):
talk to a survivor of sex trafficking that maybe doesn't
have recollection of any ritual abuse activity, but they sure
know that demons have shown up. They'll talk about seeing
black figures coming in the room. They'll talk about all
kinds of horrific stuff happening at night, and they'll talk
about the astro rapes and all these things happening at night.
And they may not know about richual abuse or even
have ritual abuse in their past, but they're definitely dealing
(39:34):
with the spiritual warfare elements of it. And so when
we learn not only about who Jesus is and what
Jesus did for us while he was on the earth,
and then also through his death, burial and resurrection, like
the reality of the Kingdom of Heaven is such good
news that there is like righteousness, peace and joy available
(39:56):
that is not just a bunch of talk impressive words.
It's power that we can actually like he can. He
commissions out his disciples, heal the sick, cast out demons,
clemzells with felepasy, raise the dead like so the whole body,
soul and spirit can actually completely be healed and delivered
(40:16):
and set free. And then also like for me, a
huge part of the healing was, oh, my gosh, I
can be clean like the righteousness when he said, seek
first his Kingdom and his righteousness, and then all these
these lesser things will be given to you. That righteousness
piece was like, oh my gosh, stepping into that revelation
(40:39):
of the kingdom, because I felt my entire life so
dirty from everything that I went through. And so he
actually healed and restored and delivered and deprogrammed my body,
my soul and spirit, and like my physical body is healthy.
That is a me. It's a miracle that I'm not insane.
(41:04):
It's a miracle that I'm even alive. I've tried to
take my own life. I've had guns held in my head.
I could have been dead and gone so many times
over the course of my testimony time. But it really
is true, like God's word really is true and and
Jesus really is the solution. He's the whole solution, the
(41:25):
whole way, the truth and the life to completely being
healed and restored.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
So well stated talk to me about the Disney stuff
and doll programming.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, I think that that was a part of really
setting me up for it made me even more susceptible
to future trafficking experiences because for me, with the Disney
princess programming, it involved Disney movies being played as a
(42:12):
little as a toddler, stripping and dancing and doing a
princess dance, and it involved like good girl programming, being
a good girl, following all of the commands of what
I was being told to do, and being like a
(42:32):
princess and being essentially just being that doll, being whatever
they wanted me to be. And so what was interesting
is other traffickers in my future future, you know, exploitation.
(42:53):
I remember one time, like when I was trafficked overseas
as an adult from Hollywood to a I was so
to a billionaire clothing designer and he's a Satanist and
one of the girls when she initially was confronting me
once I landed there, she was like, they do this
(43:15):
thing called and I don't know what you call it,
but like I call it like trauma checking and like
program checking to like see like they'll say certain code
words and like look at your eyes to see if
your eyes dilate, and to s like if you're so.
I don't know, you probably have a better term for that,
but that's just what I what I call it. But
she did that, and she was trying to see. She
was using like good girl and like different words that
(43:37):
were connected to programming. So I'm like, how how do
these people? It's like you're marked in the spirit realm
once you engage in or are forced to engage in,
rather these different types of programming. It's like in the
spirit realm, people in the occult can see it and
know it now.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
In all of them. Your explanation, I mean, you don't believe, however,
that you were signed up for a project. You believe
that you just went from one bad situation to the
next and kept being identified by these occultists and people
in the know.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
I think that I was initiated in. I think that
there was very strategic intention by the programmer. I was
only with her for six months, and I believe that
there were things initiated and started, but there wasn't well,
(44:43):
I will say, the thing that I kept ending up
in was these different trafficking situations where I then would
the part of me that was the good girl, the
princess that would just free the freeze trauma response, the
fond friend trauma response like would just happen because of
that programming and that setup and then being tried. I believe,
(45:04):
if anything, the programming that I was set up for
was the sex slave like sex trafficking, because I ended
up getting sold to different celebrities in Hollywood and different
elite people, and my programming made me the perfect candidate
to service those individuals well, but it wasn't like at
(45:30):
that point like street level trafficking. And so, if anything,
I think that's what I was marked with in programmed
to do and assigned to do, because that's what I
saw kept happening over and over and over and over
and no matter where I moved, no matter what I did,
no matter what was going on, until I got completely
(45:53):
set free.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
So I have here in front of me Hitler concentration
camp programming. Now, how does that play into all of
what you just said?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
I know, so that was a realm that I would
get pulled into.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
A realm, a realm meaning not in the physical.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Not in the physical world. This was a realm. So
I would get pulled into this realm that was a
concentration camp where I would be lined up and numbered
with I don't even know how many, And it was
like the barbed wire fences all the way around the
perimeter buildings where a house is behind, torture and all
(46:39):
kinds of things that were happening in these in these buildings,
and the bad people would actually have German shepherds and
they would move down the line and it was like
you could feel the evil coming towards you and the
momentum of that happening, and it was like, I don't
(47:00):
know how, but something about with the dogs. That's how
they would come up and they would select which one
of us programmed victimized people that were lined up that
were going to be hurt or further programmed or taken
somewhere else from that place. And so I have I
(47:21):
experienced that in the spirit realm. And when all this
stuff is going on, you don't really know what type
of programming this is or what type of until you
start learning later on. Well, I don't want to say
that for everybody, but for me, I wasn't fully aware
of like what it was until I started healing.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
So there's abuse happening in a physical yea abuse in
a spiritual. Now as you're going through it, was it
clear to you what was physical and what was spiritual
the whole time? Or was there some confusion about that
or was there an experience of not really knowing where
(48:06):
the physical stopped and the spiritual started It was just life.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
I would say there was definitely confusion about it because
of my fractured parts, so switching parts. And then there
were also things like I mentioned earlier, where my consciousness
was focused on whatever the programmer or the occult member
wanted me to be focused on, like the spinning and
rotating of my soul being, you know, fractured during stuff
(48:35):
happening where I wasn't fully aware of everything going on
in the room, but I was focusing on what they
led me to focus on, or in the programming. When
I was in that programming location of that purple place,
rotating from room to room, That's what my consciousness was
aware of and looking at. But you ask about the
(48:57):
physical abuse that happened with that therapist. I'm certain there was,
but I wasn't focused on that at that time. My
awareness after she was, when she was hypnotizing me and
bringing me into those places was there. So it was
almost like my body was like frozen and numb while
these things were happening because they capitalize off of the
(49:17):
dissociative state, you know. And so for me, yes, it
was very confusing as far as a line of what
all took place physically and then you know, in the
in the spirit realm. And then I will say like
even in my healing and freedom journey, I would still
(49:39):
have nightmares later in life of what happened to me
early on, which is triggering because you wake up feeling like,
you know, just the the trauma of remembering all of
those those traumatic experiences from when you're younger. So it's like,
(50:01):
not only did I have to work through getting healing
and freedom from that stuff, but then that work through
the triggers, like what do you do when you're triggered
and stay present and don't split again, don't refracture, don't
just because you're triggered. So it's like the healing and
the freedom and then the staying free and getting rid
(50:24):
of being harassed by the nightmares or the trump that
was like a whole nother wave of healing after to
stop the nightmares of what happened, and Jesus did stop it.
Now I sleep like a baby, Praise God. But I
think that's another thing that sometimes I think survivors struggle
with is they think that because I'm triggered, I'm not healed,
(50:49):
and the enemy will bring in condemnation and set up
a trick and a trap right there, a hidden trap
to try to regain access to keep it going. And
so I think that getting the healing and the freedom,
of course is major, but then also knowing how to
(51:09):
stay free and having this support to stay free after
is really important too.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
You're doing such a great job and breaking all of
this down. I know that it's helping so many people
because this has lived experience, and for a lot of
a lot of people, especially those that have backgrounds of
different kinds of abuse, it's a journey of connecting the dots.
(51:34):
There are so many people that have so many questions
about why did this happen to me? Why did that
happen to me? Why am I still going through this
and there is a lack of affirmation available and we're
providing that and you're just doing so well, and so
you know, I want to just keep kind of going
(51:57):
deeper for a second into some of this. So you
were take into this Hitler realm. Are there other realms
that you remember specifically being trafficked to and programmed in?
Speaker 2 (52:11):
There was this one location I knew it was in Jerusalem,
I don't know where, but where there was this it
was like a false holiness. It was a false holy location.
So it looked like it was all white. But have
you like if you've ever seen like after like a bonfire,
(52:32):
how there's like that white ash, you know, that's like
the remains of like you know, whatever, the log being burnt.
That's like what was all over the realm. So if
you first look at it, it looks like holy, it
looks like white, but it was actually that ash, that
ash white and it was a temple and there was
(52:56):
this like discuss sting white dragon that was there. And
so I was pulled into that realm and I was
wearing what looked like all white, and I was just
in this line and it was like we had when
(53:19):
we got to the front of the line. We were
raped by that thing Golley, And so there's that. I mean,
there's a few others, but that that one was.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
How old were you?
Speaker 5 (53:36):
Do you have an idea I believe that that happened,
That that happened or being pulled into that realm was
somewhere in my childhood, but I don't.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
I don't remember like the exact age.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
So this is one of those that came back to
you as like a dream that wasn't a dream, and
then so you woke up having been abused and not
really knowing what to do about it. I guess I
don't have to ask do you believe dragons are real?
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Why? Dan I think they are?
Speaker 4 (54:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
The funny thing is people like to like, you know,
chalk this up to just like fantasy, like, oh you
believe in dragons. It's like Satan is the red dragon,
like he is. And frankly, I have dealt with people
that have come from dragon bloodlines because somehow spiritually maybe
this with a physical incarnation of some fort so these
(54:35):
spirits are able to see like the way that they
abuse people sexually is not always limited only to spiritual abuse,
Like there's another side of that whole thing. I mean,
this is wild and Jerusalem, I mean you bring that
up is such a key place because it is literally
(54:58):
like the center of almost every major global lay line there.
They all all these lay lines converge on Jerusalem. And
so from I mean we could use the term energetic
perspective from an occult perspective, I mean from a biblical
historical perspective, like Jerusalem is the center of so much. Yeah, yeah,
(55:24):
Now Jesus was no stranger to the powers of darkness
or confronting them. What has he shown you?
Speaker 2 (55:36):
Yeah, I think when I when I started my healing journey,
I mean, there's so much that he's that He's shown me.
But one of the things that was really powerful as
I was like working through the healing from all of
this stuff in the spirit realm was in Matthew four, like,
(55:56):
so we don't have a high priest, it doesn't understand
this stuff. Raise Jesus like he subjected himself to so
much to give us a solution and a strategy in
a way. And so in Matthew chapter four, when he
was you know, fasting and praying for forty days and
(56:18):
nights in the wilderness, and Satan came to tempt him
and really wage war with him. I had always read
over that like, oh, maybe it was just like a
conversation on a park bench, like they were just like talking.
But when you really like get into it. And for
sake of time, I'm just going to jump to the
third time that Satan came to him, which interestingly, he
took him to Jerusalem too. But the third time was
(56:43):
it said that he pulled him up and it was
in the spirit room the Lord allowed himself to experience
the worst warfare. I believe that exists where he was
pulled up to a high mountain, to a high place
and say and showed him all the kingdoms of the
world and was saying, I'll give you all this if
(57:03):
you got out and worship me. Now we know that's
in the spirit realm, because there's no mountain that exists
where you could see in the natural all of the
kingdoms of the world. The world's not flat. If anybody didn't.
Speaker 3 (57:16):
Know that, well, I believe I believe it. Now you
might get some arguing people in the comments, but we
will with you.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
God bless all the people that argue in the comments.
Lord let them encounter you, Jesus, we bless them, Lord.
But but so it was so he was pulled in
the spirit realm, and you know he's he's waging war.
This is warfare in the spirit realm. We know it
had to be a huge warfare because even Jesus himself
needed angels to minister to him after coming out of that,
(57:46):
like angels came to minister to him after this. But
the thing that's so beautiful is he the power of
the word of God that Jesus responded with every time
of the three times that Satan came against him. But
when the Lord was showing that to me, it just
brought so much healing to know that he experienced and
(58:12):
humbled himself too be pulled in the spirit realm and
engage in that level of warfare, so that myself and
everyone else that's experienced the same types of warfare being
pulled in realms would know. My Jesus the one understands
(58:33):
like he he understands me, and he also has the
strategy of how to get out of this stuff. And
I feel like that level of understanding to me is
also a beautiful like demonstration of love because when he
(58:54):
tells me he loves me. I'm like he loves me,
but he also really understands me. I can talk about anything,
and he like he humbled himself to go through He
didn't have to go through any of that, and he
certainly didn't have to go through the Cross, but did.
And we were the joy set before him that gave
him what he empowered him to be able to continue
(59:17):
going through it. But then he also descended into hell,
took the keys from Satan, and rose with all power
and authority in his hands. So he went into every realm.
I think he's at Ephesians, but there's a scripture we're
talked about. He went into every realm led captain like.
He established his authority and his power in his dominion everywhere,
(59:38):
So there is no place that a person could be
trapped in that the power and the authority of Jesus,
who loves them and understands and is not angry at
them or judging them or harsh or legalistic with them.
He loves them, he understands, and his authority and power
can get into every single place because he overcame all
(01:00:01):
of it, and he went there for us, and then
he invites us into that authority and power to move
with him.
Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
So beautifully stated.
Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
See, and that's why I'm a Jesus guy. I mean,
what other what other God is worth serving? I mean,
you know, it's it's so interesting, you know when I
when I'm working with people and I meet their parts
that are very loyal to evil beings, including Satan. You know,
(01:00:39):
oftentimes I'll ask them, well, how does Satan deal with
you when you make a mistake? Whoa you know? And
and they'll have a lot of arrogance and pride until
that question gets asked, because the answer is always the
same torture. Yeah, it's always punishment. Rule through fear. We
(01:00:59):
have a God that rules through love, whose mercies are
new every morning.
Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Thank you Lord.
Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
It's a game changer.
Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
And I feel like even the fear of the Lord
is from a place of love. Come on, It's like,
I'm so in love with you that I put you first.
It's not like Satan's type of fear. It's like a
whole different thing. And so, yeah, He's so good. It's
the only reason why I'm alive and sane and in
(01:01:35):
my right mind, in one soul and able to just
do the work that I do. I would not be
alive today without the Lord, There's absolutely no way.
Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
So what happened at twelve for you?
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
So yeah, So going back to twelve, what was really
interesting and this is some of the stuff that I
learned afterwards again with like understanding the types of programming
that happened to me, and also the timeline of my life,
because there were significant ages the eighteen months two three
being initiated. Three. At nine, I started having a surge
(01:02:18):
of all kinds of spiritual warfare and more being brought
to different locations and programming stuff at age nine. That
was leading up to age twelve, where then I made
a decision to get into witchcraft, into WICCA, and because
I was trying to make sense of all of the
realms and the spiritual warfare and the people that were
(01:02:40):
showing up in my room. But it got really intense
at nine leading up to twelve, and so at age
twelve when I made that decision to just full blown
go into witchcraft, I'm thinking, oh, I'm a healer. I'm
doing good. You know, this is probably good stuff because
now everything is somewhat making sense. And this is all
(01:03:01):
before I met Jesus, by the way, But I did.
I was led to do a ritual on the beach
and it was a Satanic ritual, you know, drawn in
a circle, and I mean the black hood, the whole
get up. And I did a whole ritual on the
(01:03:21):
beach with two other people, and that broke hell wide
open even more goodness. But I thought, and so now
that I realized, like in hindsight and in my healing journey,
twelve is such a significant age. Also, I think because
of what Jesus did at twelve, that was like the
(01:03:43):
first time that independent of his earthly parents, He's like,
I gotta be about my father's business. So there's something
about like free will decisions made at twelve, independent of
parental decisions that I feel like, bring a whole nother
layer of entangled of agreement with Satan, because now it's
(01:04:04):
like you're kind of in the spirit realm looked at
as an adult and so so yeah, so that happened
at twelve, and so again it's just it's so interesting
learning and going back on the timeline Blafe and I'm like, oh,
now I see why at this age, this age, this age,
this age, and all the more just the reason for
us to be so so aware of the power of
(01:04:27):
age twelve even as believers.
Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Steve, thank you for sharing that, and for the parents
out there, that's also probably a helpful peace. So you
did this at twelve, and it just broke everything wide open. Now, now,
when when did you really start to be like I
(01:04:55):
guess eyed for trafficking to Hollywood? Like, how were you
still a teenager?
Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
So I experienced exploitation at fourteen again at seventeen in
San Francisco and the strip clubs and hotels there, But
I didn't get to Hollywood until like age twenty. Like
I moved there thinking I was going to get into
acting and modeling and that that was going to be
(01:05:22):
a great idea. I knew Jesus at that time. I
was actually thinking, oh, maybe this is how I fulfill
my purpose of like helping people and stuff like that.
Now I knew Jesus, but he was not fully leading
my life. I wasn't fully surrendered or yielded. I just
was including him in a little bit at that point.
So there's a huge difference between knowing him a little
(01:05:44):
bit and then being fully surrendered in your life being
led by him. But so yeah, age twenty, I moved
there for modeling and acting, and that's when I ended
up getting exploited for four years in Hollywood, and it
(01:06:04):
was kind of masked as you know, going to auditions
or like work for acting or modeling, and then it
would always turn into some type of like just being
raped or assaulted or and so I would be invited
(01:06:26):
into some like even elite like after hours types type
parties where I would see big celebrities actually, like I
remember one time opening a door on accident and they
these celebrities, big names I won't I won't name them
right now, but were in the middle of a ritual.
(01:06:50):
They were sitting in a it was a small room
and the chairs were all faced around like like backs
to the walls, and they were all sitting in the
chairs face forward. And I opened the door and I
was like and the sheer like evil and terror, and
like closed the door. And that was in the natural,
(01:07:10):
not in the spirit realm that that I saw that,
And just realizing the people in Hollywood that are connected
with a part of Satanism, Illuminati and all of those things,
like I think now it's it's way, it's all over.
It's like it's really easy to see like, if you
(01:07:32):
can't look at some of these concerts and some of
these things that are going on like and see it
and recognize it, it's it's all over. But at that time,
there weren't like really conversations about satanism and ritual abuse
and like rituals and all of that. So for reference,
I'm forty one now, so that that was a little
(01:07:53):
a little wow a little while back. But yeah, and
then I was I would get sold to people that
were involved in the occult and different celebrities that I
was supposed to be working for. But then I would realize, oh,
this is what it's really about and be.
Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
Heard Now with your background being between realms and recognizing
that you had the parts. Now as you got into
this phase of your story from twenty to twenty four
and that exploitation, would you feel the parts taking over
at times? And did you know that that was happening?
(01:08:36):
Did you have or was that just such a subconscious
process it didn't really register And a good question what
role at that season twenty to twenty four did the
other realms play in your experience?
Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
I think that it was a subconscious thing at that time.
I do in hindsight realize that there were certain individuals
because all of them, all of the exploitation in Hollywood
wasn't necessarily with Satanists, but the ones that were involved
in the occult, they always say those code words and
(01:09:15):
things to kind of see like what are we working
with here? You know? And so I think for me,
it was more of a subconscious thing, and I think
I looked at it as more so like trauma responses,
but I was switching, and then there were a lot
of memories that were just like completely gone because a
(01:09:38):
different part was experiencing it. So for me, it was
more like a survival coping than it was me intentionally
switching or knowing that I was switching. It was more
so those programs and parts of me would take over
(01:10:03):
and handle all of that. And then I would come
out of a experience of you know, being hurt by
by someone or raped in some mansion somewhere, and I
just knew, I knew my body was hurting, I knew
I knew I was struggling with depression and with mental
(01:10:29):
health challenges and confused and all of these things afterwards,
and would just drink, you know, like just try to
numb whatever was going on, So there was a lot
of confusion, but I definitely had parts that would like
take over and dan. I'm gonna say, I am thankful
that I had parts. I'm thankful, and I think it's
(01:10:52):
the brilliance of God that he created the soul in
a way to compartmentalize trauma and unimaginable torture and pain,
because I I don't think I could have kept going
in life with a full conscious awareness of everything I
(01:11:13):
went through. So for the time of my life that
I had parts, I'm so thankful that I did, because
I don't think I would have been able to alive,
be alive if God didn't create the soul intentionally that
way so that he could then be the one that
heals the fractured broken heart and you know, restores and
brings it all back, brings it all back together, because
(01:11:34):
those parts would switch out and take on that torture,
take on that abuse, and then I would keep going discombobulated,
not even remembering like when I got sold Overseas to
the to the billionaire clothing designer and all the stuff
that happened with that, Like when I came back, I
didn't remember it. I had no recollection of what happened
(01:11:55):
when I was gone. It was years later that I
all of that, you know, started coming back up. So
I'm thankful that I had parts when I did.
Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
And that's one of the things that you know, I've
been saying for a long time, and you know, I
just reiterated here because it's relevant. Dissociation isn't bad, right,
It's design. Everyone dissociates, and depending on how much trauma
(01:12:33):
a person has survived, that dissociation may be more extenuating
or severe, and it only becomes a disorder or when
the dissociation itself creates dysfunction in a person's life. And unfortunately,
when people have been through a lot of exploitation, there
(01:12:56):
is dysfunction that comes because of the different ways they've
had to dissociate. But it's not in and of itself.
It's not bad. It is design. God knew we would
need dissociation to survive this world. And I think that
that is something that survivors need to hear, because I
think some people feel very guilty when they realize I
(01:13:19):
have parts, and there are different parts of me that
do jobs, especially if those jobs are not so good jobs,
and there can be a lot of shame and a
lot of self hatred around that. I mean, I believe
actually that self hatred and self rejection sit at the
root of maintaining a dissociative disorder. It's like, you know,
(01:13:39):
I don't want to know those identities because they are
the worst parts of me that God would himself reject.
And it's that's not They're in a single part of you.
Jesus doesn't love.
Speaker 5 (01:13:51):
That's so.
Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
When people get comfortable with the reality that dissociation is
not bad, it's just design, I mean, really helps to
overcome some hurdles. It's like, you know, you didn't associate
because you were weak or because you were bad, or
because you were not good enough. We all do it, and.
Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
So yeah, and also parts are not demons.
Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Can we just say that you need to preach it,
give me, let.
Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Me get this bike. Like that's something that the Body
of Christ has got to become more aware of because
and now we're not even talking about just sex trafficking
or ritual abuse, but just the average church goer in America. Okay,
that has parts we can't look at. I've seen so
(01:14:46):
many times. Did I experience it myself? And so many
others where well meaning believers are trying to bind and
rebuke and cast out parts of a soul and are
screaming and demonizing these parts. And so it's like, I
just think there's a beautiful opportunity for the Body of
(01:15:06):
Christ to learn, for people that are in deliverance or
interhaling ministries to get better understanding is they will be
way more effective in the work that they do if
they really understand God's design and dissociation and parts and
that they are not demons. You cannot cast out a
(01:15:30):
part of somebody's soul and think that's going to result
in healing. It's actually perpetuating the same trauma that probably
caused that split or that fracture in the first place.
And now you, as a person representing Jesus, have just
become an abuser. And so I just think there's a
beautiful opportunity. I think anybody that is in church, anybody
(01:15:53):
that is on a prayer team, anybody that is in
deliverance or interhaling ministry, one of the best things they
could do their continuing education is learn how to understand
parts and how to navigate with that, you know, with wisdom,
with the love of Christ and certainly without judgment.
Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
So now you are doing a lot and advocating for survivors,
and you teach on trauma informed care, you have other outreaches.
What what is the burden that God has put on
(01:16:33):
the inside of you to bring to the survivor community
and those that are escaping human trafficking.
Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Yes, yeah, so we do have a survivor community as
well as like a service provider academy. I would say
on the survivor community side, it's just having a place
to continue growing in faith with others who understand with
lived experience and just having understanding and support and we're
(01:17:04):
all on fire for the Lord, like going after him
and our healing journeys. There's just I think that that
no matter where someone is at in their healing journey,
whether they're like still experiencing some stuff, whether they're in
a safe home or you know later in life, like
having community of people that understand is just one of
the greatest blessings. And a survivor led community. So we
(01:17:29):
do Bible study, prayer, you know, and just create different
opportunities to continue healing and empowering each other. But not
just focusing on the past, but also empowering to move
forward from a kingdom perspective. And I would say on
the service provider's side, probably one of my greatest burdens
that I carry for teaching and training individuals about how
(01:17:51):
to work with sex trafficking survivors is really to understand
what's happening inside of us at those points of contact
when they're trying to minister to us or help. And
to me, trauma informed care means truly understanding the trauma
of the individuals you're serving, and I think that that
(01:18:11):
also carries over into deliverance settings. It's possible to do
trauma informed deliverance. You know, where it is like Jesus
led and survivor led, what the survivor is ready for,
what they're choosing, what they feel safe to go into,
and being empowered to build their own relationship with the
(01:18:31):
Lord versus just codependency on someone that's helping them. And
I think that's one of the greatest gifts that we
can give to survivors of sex trafficking who are healing,
is empower them to know how to interact with the
Lord in a way where they can not just get
free when they're sitting in a session, but now they
(01:18:52):
know how to talk to the Lord, they know how
to navigate on their own, and they can stay free
because of that. Like so yeah, that's those are some
of the things that I'm really compassionate, you know about
with service providers. And I also just want to say that,
like anybody that's saying yes to doing this work is
a really incredible person because it takes a lot of
(01:19:16):
christ likeness and love and compassion to see people that
have been through stuff like myself and say I'm going
to be a part of that, you know. So I
think it's really important even with people that are providing
ministry and services to survivors, to experience like learning from
(01:19:37):
a place of like the Kingdom of Heaven, Like even
though we're talking about dark stuff, we can still have
joy and like peace, His joy is amazing. It's like
there has to be a balance of you're doing the
hard work, but you can also like encounter Heaven and
like encounter Jesus and like be refreshed by the Holy
(01:19:58):
Spirit and all of those to do it and not
be like a bitter Beatrice or an angry Pharisee, you know.
Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
So anyway, I love I mean it is just Yeah,
I've met so many different personality types and some of
them are like, you know how you are so upset
right now at life deliverance has not you know, done
good for your joy and there is a higher revelation
(01:20:30):
you know, Sula, There's a lot that we we have covered,
but there's a lot more because we didn't even touch
a book.
Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
Yeah, yeah, we're.
Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
Going to have you back and we're going to get
into a whole lot more on some of the other
side of this conversation. Uh, even even the beautiful things
that God has shown you, things that have contributed deeply
to your healing journey that is going to translate to
the redemptive process he's taking others through. But again, for
(01:21:01):
those of you that are watching this, uh, Sula Layell
dot com and take Flight Survivors dot org. Yes, those
are your websites.
Speaker 5 (01:21:12):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
And and her book, which we'll be discussing on a
later conversation, is The Unashamed Bride. Sula, thank you for
being here. I just want to honor you. You just
doing an incredible work.
Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
Thanks for making this easy to talk about stuff that
I've never talked about publicly.
Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
I can tell Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:21:39):
Well friends. Until next time, God bless and God Speak.
You've been listening to Discovering Truth with Dan Deval. Visit
mere dandeval dot com, where you will discover merch books
(01:22:00):
and the opportunity to engage in our private social network.
Joined the Tribe by subscribing to our email list and
supporting this podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
You are listening to the French radio network franradionetwork dot com.
You are listening to the Fringe radio network franradionetwork dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I started in therapy at three, discovered that I had
different personalities and parts. This therapist she was actually a programmer,
but she started doing hypnosis. The first location like a
purple place of purple is connected to like end of
world programming. Inside the warehouse looks like a nightclub.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
So you went from being abused by these perpetrators.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
And there's demonic stuff happening in my body responding sexually
to this therapist programming and ritual abuse stuff was happening
in the spirit realm. My body was like frozen and
numb while these things were happening.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
You're listening to Discovering Truth with Dan Deval. Hey, friends,
we got an awesome show for you today. Before we
(01:23):
get started, I just want to remind all of you
dandavall dot com is the home of the Discovering Truth
with Dandival podcasts. And for those of you that really
enjoy what we're doing here and want to support it,
you can become a podcast patron. It's just five dollars
a month and you will get early access to these
podcasts as part of that, and coupons to our store
(01:44):
at dandavall dot com. And so we're gonna get started,
don't go anywhere. We're back on Discovering Truth with Dan
Deval and I am sitting here with a very special person.
Her name is Sula. She's joined me once before. She's
a transformational strategists, trafficking survivor expert and empowerment consultant committed
(02:07):
to equipping individuals, nonprofits and service providers in the anti
trafficking movement. She herself is a survivor of trafficking to
Hollywood the ultra rich. That was some of the things
that we talked about the first time that I was
with her. She has a book called The Una Shane
Bride and several websites Sula lel dot com and take
(02:35):
Flight Survivors Sula. We're already emoting and crying and shedding
tears and the presence of God. It's so good at you.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh my goodness, Dan, thank you so much for having
me back. And just thank you you and your wife
and your team for all that you've done as forerunners
in pioneers in this work. Just want to start out
the gate by just saying I honor you have a
lot of respect for you and really thankful to be here.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So yeah, well we're thankful to have you. We have
a lot to talk about Sula a lot. We have
a lot to talk about it. And I kind of
want to just dive in on the anti trafficking movement itself,
because this has been a space that you came into
(03:24):
as a survivor. Now you're on the other side advocating
for survivors, and you've met a lot of people in
this space. Absolutely, and I think that this is a
space where you have a lot of service providers that
don't fully understand the problem they're trying to solve or
(03:44):
minister into. I think you would.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Agree, yes, absolutely, So.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I'm going to start off with asking the question why,
oh wow.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, I feel like we are in another wave of
awareness in our nation, really the world, similar to in
two thousand when the TVPR came out and you know,
we started having language for what sex trafficking is. At
(04:16):
that time, I mean, we as survivors were still getting arrested,
treated like prostitutes, crack hos or whatever during that time,
you know, criminalized, and that's when our nation started waking
up and you started having language for what was happening,
and it's like, oh, wow, were now we were being victimized,
and now there's laws you know that were coming out
(04:36):
and conversation and the nation really woke up to what
sex trafficking was. And I feel like right now we
are in another wave of awareness regarding ritual abuse in
the anti trafficking space specifically. And I know you've been
pioneering this work, you and your ministry for many years,
but I would say in the anti trafficking space, this
(04:58):
is just now starting to come to the surface. So
for individuals that have been in the anti trafficking movement
for some time, that's challenging that there's a whole new
demographic of people being victimized in a way that they
just don't necessarily understand. And so without survivor voices and
(05:23):
without more conversation around these topics, you actually do have
a divide. You've got some in the anti trafficking space
that are saying that ritual abuse, occult ritual abuse, occult crimes,
satanic ritual abuse is just a mental health psychosis and
that it's not actually real and this is so damaging
(05:46):
to the lives of survivors that are actually seeking help
and struggle to even get the words out to say
what happened to them, And then now they're being told, Oh,
it has to be schizophrenia, or it has to be
some type of mental health psychosis. It's really all in
your head. It's just I've just seen how damaging that's
been to so many. And we now have statistics coming out,
(06:09):
like you know, even Rescue America that about twenty percent
of the survivors that call the hotline seeking help with
escaping their traffickers have these experiences in their background. So
this is like so much more prevalent than people realize.
Yet there are some that are saying that it's just
mental health, which is really painful to hear.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Well, and I would add, right, because you throw out
that twenty percent that know that that's in their back
because when you add the dissociation layer on top of this, Yeah,
how many traffic survivors don't remember right or it's intentionally
walled off?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
What is the consequence of this lack of understanding?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, I would say the greatest consequence that and this
is grieving. This is so grieving. I mean, I think
the greatest consequence is that a survivor that hasn't been believed, well,
I'll share to you actually, Number one, they don't feel
(07:20):
like there's hope because now the people that they're entrusting
to help them don't believe them. Number Two, I see
a lot of this happening in faith based organizations or
spaces and the anti trafficking movement, And it would cause
somebody that has experienced ritual abuse in their background to say,
(07:43):
I don't want this Jesus that you guys are talking about.
And that is an eternal consequence. And so so many
times when I'm working with survivors, like a lot of
the conversation and the prayer and the work is centered
around them being able to just trust the true Jesus.
(08:04):
And I know there's a lot of reasons why, but
if they've met people that have misrepresented him, even you know,
well meaning people in the anti trafficking space, it makes
it so much harder to get to him. It's like
when Jesus was literally flipping tables and like confronting the
Sadducees and the Pharisees and religious leaders, and he said, like,
(08:27):
woe unto you. You make it hard for people to
enter into the Kingdom. You make it hard, and that's
what I see happening, and it's like, it's just it's
it's really really, it's horrible.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
So you're basically contending, and I agree that it is
a misrepresentation of Jesus for a faith based organization that
wants to help survivors of human trafficking to come back
and say we're going to disqualify your memories of lived
experiences that include occult and ritual abuse. Yeah, thank you
(09:12):
for saying it. And you know, because my perspective of this,
I've been working with survivors of SRA and deep occult
backgrounds for over a decade, so that has been my
whole frame of reference, and my entry into the trafficking
space actually comes by way of how many of the
survivors of occult and ritual abuse are also trafficked as
(09:36):
part of that experience. What I didn't realize that I'm
coming around to is how much the occult methods of
mind control and abuse have been worked into the strategies
that the pimps and the handlers are using. It seems across.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
The definitely, Yeah, I mean there's like training on how
to be a pimp that talks about breaking someone's soul
and breaking their mind, you know. And so, yeah, one
hundred percent. Last time we talked you, I remembered you
saying something. You said something along the lines of sex
trafficking is programming. And I don't know why I'd never
(10:21):
thought about that before, but one hut before we had
that talk, but oh my gosh, pimps and traffickers are
literally training you on what to do, what not to do,
code words, doing it in a certain way like it's
it literally is a type of programming. One n So yeah,
(10:42):
and I just feel like for individuals that are saying
that that just can't wrap their minds around this being real.
It's like you would have to go really far to
omit world history and biblical history to say that this
is only a mental health psychosis. It's actually in the Bible.
(11:05):
Sr trafficking is in the Bible. So as a believer
to say, oh, no, this is just mental health psychosis,
then you have to throw away parts of scripture. You
have to throw away everything that Hitler did. You have
to throw away all the unclassified government documents that are
country you know, all of the projects that you have
to throw away a whole lot to rest on that stance,
(11:27):
And so I would just say for people to do
their own research before just accepting someone's narrative on this topic,
because what I found as I started digging into the works,
I'm like, Lord, just show me. I'm a word girl.
I love the Bible. The Bible was part of my
personal deprogramming process with getting in the word of God
and experiencing the word of God. And the Lord showed
(11:48):
me that the you know, the pagan rituals of the
Old Testament, like literally what would happen? And there's scriptural
references to this, and there's also historical references that parallel
the Bible, different travelers and historians you know along that
time that speak about this as well. But there would
be a pagan temple. A family would dedicate their child,
(12:10):
male or female to the pagan temple in order to
be a shrine prostitute. And there's various words that were
used in the word for that, but they didn't have
the word trafficking back then. They didn't have the words
ritual abuse back then. And so they would be dedicated
to that deity, to that godess, to whoever that pagan
of that temple was in service to that demonic entity,
(12:35):
and the people of the area would come and have
ritual sex with these victims and pay donations to the temple. Yes,
so you have sex trafficking because there's an exchange of value.
And then they're thinking, these people coming doing these fertility
rituals or whatever they're doing, are thinking their crops are
going to prosper, their land is going to prosper, their
(12:57):
families are going to prosper if they're in good with
that demon that that ritual ritually abused victim, sex trafficking
victim is now completely tethered to and sexually servicing all
of these individuals. And so it's like it's all over
the world. Even God said had to tell the people, like,
(13:18):
don't bring me any ritual, like don't bring me any
offerings that you got through like shrine prostitution and like rich,
like don't bring that over here. He actually had to
tell the people not to do that because it was
just so common. It's all over the Old Testament, it's
in the New Testament. And that's the same process that
I see today. I mean with sra trafficking, it's like
(13:41):
it's splitting, it's fracturing the soul of victims, tethering those
different parts to different demonic entities programming them. And then
when they are being trafficked, sold, exploited, those individuals are
coming into agreements and covenants and those demons get access
to their life. It's really the easiest way for demons
to spread is through fornication and through sexual perversion and
(14:04):
rape and assault. Like it's like a direct say doesn't
even have to build up a whole. You don't even
got to tell lies. So it's like it's like if
you really if you're a believer and you're saying this
isn't true. I just want to challenge and encourage to
please get in the word and get into some world
history because we can't with.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
The harvest of survivors that are out there, and child
survivors being abused by MS thirteen gang members and cartels,
and we know a lot about that like that are
out there.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Who do you think those gangs serve? Like there's there's
ritual abuse happening with hundreds of thousands of children and
adults in our own country. Yes, So if we as
service providers, as the church, as the Bride of Christ,
don't understand this stuff. What are we going to do
(15:01):
with this harvest? Because they're coming.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Out, Well, they're absolutely coming out. And that's I think
that we're going to see a greater exodus of traffic
survivors in the next few years than we've ever seen before.
And I think that there's a lot, a lot is
going on in the spirit world that's facilitating that personally. Paul
(15:25):
in his letters to the First and second first and
second Corinthians, though the letter to the Corinthian Church, many
have suggested the reason why he was spending so much
time dealing with like sexual sin in those letters is
because of the temple that was in corinth Yes, where
it is. It is suggested by some historical references exactly
(15:46):
what you're saying, there was temple prostitution. I've always wondered
as well. There's another story in the Book of Judges
where a guy takes his wife and they travel through
the land of Benjamin and then they are baseasically wanting
the guy, but he throws his wife out to them,
and then they abused her until morning and she is
then dead, and it is an awful story. I have
(16:10):
always assumed that abuse included elements of satanic and ritual
abuse because it killed her. Yeah, she didn't survive it.
And you know, so when you talk about biblical references,
I mean yes, yes, sister, Yes and amen. Now you
(16:30):
mentioned something that I want to just ask you a
little bit more about. You said they there is training
for pimps on how to break the soul. Now is
this something you have firsthand knowledge of?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah. Now I didn't want to go into like reading
the books, but there are books out there on how
to do this. Yes, and that's just regular sex trafficking
pimp culture.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
There are books, like publicly available books, yes, like you could.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Buy and anybody going to read them. But yes, they
are publicly available books on like how to break the soul,
how to control victims. Yes, and that's just from a
sex trafficking standpoint. That's not it's not they're not talking
about ritual abuse or mind control programming, but it is
(17:24):
mind control programming.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Colley. You know, I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm kind
of surprised. I've never read obviously one of these books.
But wow, So they just buy these book if someone
wrote it, they give it out, they use it, They
train these people.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
They train they train younger pimps on how to do this.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, so you were your self trafficked and and you
were trafficked to Hollywood wealthy and handler and and I
guess today I want to ask this question, did your
(18:08):
trafficking include elements of occult and ritual abuse? And if so,
where did it begin?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Absolutely, And even before I answered that, I just want
to again say thank you for this space and opportunity
to talk about it, because I've shared my story since
twenty ten in the anti trafficking space. But what I'm
going to share today I've never shared. So it's not
in any of my books, it's not in any trainings.
This is the first time that I'm even going to
go into some of these details. And so so yeah, wow,
(18:44):
the for me in the beginning of life really you know,
my you know, my mom was single, hard working mom,
going to school, you know, working to make a living
for us, So she had to trust people to watch me.
So from eighteen months old to three years old was
(19:06):
my first exploitation and a ritual abuse experience. So I
was a toddler being watched and dressed with this family
and they were actually exploiting me. And so they had
like all of these different mattresses on the floor upstairs,
and my first memories of even being alive are being
moved from mattress to mattress to mattress, in adults in
(19:28):
big body parts, in me hiding, trying to hide, being
pushed on their comforters, being taught that oral sex with
adults is normal. And so that's what I thought was,
you know, okay, this is just part of life.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
It was.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
How else could I have survived that without splitting or
fracturing because I was a baby, And so my mom
ended up finding out when I asked her to give
me oral sex one day at three years old, because
that's what my abusers said, you're supposed to do. And
(20:14):
so mixed in with the sexual exploitation was also really
being initiated into the occult and so it was very
so for me my memories of physical abuse were I
experienced equally things in the spirit realm as well. So
(20:34):
it was common for me to have different occult members
coming into my room at night by way of astral
projecting in and hurting me even when I wasn't at
their house, abusing me, hurting me in the spirit realm,
and demons coming and raping me, and then also me
(20:58):
being taken to places, so nighttime was worse than they
for me. And you didn't I didn't have to be
in the physical location with them to still be hurt
and ritually abused and programmed, because once they initiated me
(21:19):
in the spirit realm was wide open, and you know,
other types of abuse started.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Now there are a lot of people that deal with
exactly what you're talking about. We can apply certain terms
astral rape, sleep paralysis leading to astral rape. We could
apply the terms spirit husbands and spirit wives are just
spirits spouses. People are suffering because they're going through these
(21:49):
kinds of experiences. It's it's violating, it's demoralizing. There's a
lot of people that don't know how to make it
stop permanently. And I get a lot of those phone
calls people will show asking me for help on these things.
Do you believe that what opened the door to that
harassment in your life was the physical abuse that these
(22:12):
people perpetrated.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
You know, that's an interesting question because I think there's
probably two answers to that. So I think that there
was an initiate, like an official initiation because of the
abuse that was happening. But I also had to do
a lot of like I had to work through praying
(22:35):
off stuff that was on my generational lines and stuff too,
Like my grandma on my biological father's side, who I
didn't grow up knowing him, but she was full blood
Maroon from Jamaica. And these are the slaves that got
freedom from the British and escaped and they used a
cult to occult power in witchcraft to get away from
(22:58):
the British and they ended up getting their own Maroon
territory in Jamaica because the British were so terrified to
even approach him anymore because of the level of the
occult in shape shifting and stuff that they were doing.
And they really took a lot of pride in their
community because of getting liberated and getting free from slavery.
But they were also very much about like you don't
(23:21):
you know, like being full blood Maroon was like a
huge honor to have not had mixture with any other
you know. And so I had that and I had
other stuff on you know, both sides. I had stuff
generationally that I had to deal with. So I think
that I that my the generational occult witchcraft, freemasonry, things
(23:44):
on my generational lines that made me vulnerable and attractive
in the spirit realm to Satan. And then when the
abuse started, I believe that was like the official access
point of Okay, now let's just bring everything upon her,
if that makes sense. And so I even remember like
(24:07):
one of the one of the experiences was like rotating
my soul to face down and now have an open
view of hell while I was physically being abused, And
so it was like they were intentionally splitting and fracturing
my soul through the abuse that they did.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Eighteen months to three years old. Yes, so you have
a memory of this is happening to you. Yes, and
then your soul turns and you're actually looking dimensionally.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
They sin, they spun my soul or rotated my soul
to the point where then now I'm facing down into
realms of hell and seeing and witnessing all kinds of
really disgusting, horrible stuff which I won't go fully into detail,
but really horrific things. And so that's what I was
(24:59):
looking at while my body was physically being abused, and
while there was ritual activity happening in the room in
the natural.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
So did your mom separate you from these abusers at.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Three, Yes, thankfully, because whenever she found out when I
asked her for oral sex at three, she started an
investigation like we got of course, got me away from
there and then found therapy, which was that's a whole
nother story for me at three, and so she handled
(25:41):
it really well in the best way she knew how.
And when I started in therapy at three, it was
very quickly discovered that I had different personalities and parts.
And so the therapist when she would talk to me,
(26:02):
I would like be turning to part. She would be
asking me about questions about the things I went through,
and I would turn it. I would talk to that
part of me to be like she wants to know this,
you know. And my mom always just thought I had
like imaginary friends, not knowing I was all of the
imaginary friends, Like I was speaking to myself, you know,
I was interacted with myself. But that was really exciting
(26:31):
to this therapist because she in Berkeley, she was actually
a programmer, and so she started doing hypnosis and when
she realized that I had different soul parts, she started
doing different types of therapy, which involved programming, which involved
(26:56):
bringing me. The first location that she brought me into
was like a purple place, like all the trees had
like like the purple flowers on them, and she told
me that she was establishing a safe place that I
could always come back here, all my parts should always
come back here. But it was really a starting place
(27:17):
and a programming location. So progressing further into that purple place,
there was also a warehouse, and inside the warehouse, when
you first come in, it kind of looks like a nightclub,
and inside you're spiraling from one room, one programming room
to the next all the way inside kind of like
(27:38):
one of those like like the spiral staircase, or like
a nautilus shell, if you were to cut open a
nautilus shell, Like that's what the inside of this programming
location looked like. And so that when she realized I
had fractured personalities and soul parts, that was her like
(27:58):
her initial established of like an internal world for me,
and I later found out that like all of the
purple that was used in that is connected to like
end of world programming and stuff, and so it was
like I had a lot of experiences of being taken
(28:20):
there after she opened that up and established that and
led me there and saw that I had the ability
to be led in the spirit realm and that my
parts could handle that kind of stuff. That just opened up,
you know, a whole other thing.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
So you went from being abused by these perpetrators to
being placed with a therapist that was a programmer, and
she then took the opportunity to help you build an
inner world where you could be further programmed.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
And it's just and it's so sick because well, for
so many for so many reasons, but she even did
something with like Disney. She was an overweight, heavy set woman.
No judgment at all to anybody's body shapes. I'm just
for reference sharing, because she ended up utilizing like Disney
(29:25):
programming and did some weird thing to create within me,
like a sexual attraction to Ursula in the movie Aerial,
in the programming that's in that movie. So at three
years old, there's demonic stuff happening in my body responding
(29:45):
sexually to this therapist who did something in her programming
to cause me to respond that way to her and
to the programming in that movie. And I don't know
if it's now that I'm thinking about, I don't know
(30:06):
if if Ursula being purple also has something to do
with that too.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
But now I have to ask a question, Yeah, did
she access and abuse you too?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
That's a really good question. Maybe we can talk a
rat about that further another time. I mean, I have
to I have to assume that there was sexual abuse
that happened during that programming, And a lot of the
things that I remember is while I was focused on
(30:41):
being programming being programmed, sorry, that there were other things
happening physically while I'm in locations, and that happened with
the occult ritual abuse and with the programming, because I
don't know, I don't think it's possible for there to
be a physical sexual response to Disney Princess programming without
(31:02):
also physically things happening to me while I was being
taken to different realms and programmed in different ways.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Thank you for the way that you're explaining this and
breaking it down. You're doing a great job.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
It's a lot.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
End of the world programming now. So I've been helping
people deprogram with the power of Jesus Christ for over
a decade and we've gone so many places. And even
the fact that you bring up ursula. That's like, you know,
underwater Kingdom, And I'm gonna leave that off the table
for now. But one of the common themes that's come
(31:44):
up over and over again is end time programming, which
has to do with globalists, which have to do with
elite powers of darkness and their anti Christ agendas to
bring about the end of the age their way and
to use the programmed survivor population that they've been able
(32:05):
to perpetrate their agenda on to help. And so we
run into a lot of end times programming. Now you
to use the term end of the world programming, what
does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I think it's I think it's the same probably, just
different different terminology for the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. And
for me, it also included like false Jesus programming as well.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
So for me, I had I had a lot of
experiences of a false Jesus showing up and like raping
me and sexually abusing me and really just disgusting perverted
views of this false Jesus with erections and things like that.
(32:57):
So for me, that was connected in with the end times,
end of the world, with all of that programming. And
so when I did get saved, I had to work
through all of that junk because it was like I
knew that there was truth in the word, but when
(33:21):
I would pray well, first of all, when I first
got saved, all hell broke loose in my life with
all of the everything just started kicking, you know, kicking
up in the spirit room like like wild. But I
had to really work through navigating that space because the
real Jesus Yeshua is not a rapist, He's not perverted,
(33:45):
he's not nasty, he's not any of those things. And
so that that was connected to that programming and several
other locations that I was brought after. I think like
the groundwork was laid in my first in those first
experieniances of abuse. Then it was like most of the
programming and ritual abuse stuff was happening in the spirit
(34:07):
realm from then on. So I was with that that
programmer for six months, so a lot was established during
that time, and then after that a lot of it
was just in the spirit realm. So I was going
through my testimony of all the stuff happening in the natural,
you know, and continuing to end up in trafficking situations,
(34:28):
continuing to struggle with the dissociative, fractured parts, continuing to
struggle with substance abuse and horrible abusive relationships, and but spiritually,
I was continuing to struggle with being pulled to different
realms at night, and you know, those horrible things happening
(34:52):
in the programming, that was just continuing to happen in
the spirit realm, and and in things where like waking
up from nightmares and I'm like, that was real, So.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
You know, and on that point, and I've said this
another context before, but one of the scariest realities of
this world is that our experience and ability to be
heard in abuse is not limited to the physical three
D world. And that's I think something that the anti
trafficking movement needs to start taking extremely seriously, because you
(35:30):
know that the understand like some people have such a
basic understanding. It's like, Okay, let's find a good looking
Hollywood guy. He's gonna go and save the children by
shooting someone that's a really bad person in the head.
That's a great film. And when we get those kids
out of that situation, we'll put them in a good
(35:51):
place and they'll be happy from that point forward. Happily ever,
as they're saved. They've been saved, and what the what
that story doesn't include is what happens when that kid
goes tonight to bed that night and their abuses show
up and continue hitting them. Because they all astra project,
they remote view, they have abilities in the occult world,
(36:13):
they send demonic agents against them, and the kids still
torment and can be pulled out of body and take
into locations in the spirit world and in the physical
world on the astral plane to then go through further rituals.
I mean at any ritual site of this something I've
(36:35):
learned because I've worked with people that have survived the
occult so long. You will have maybe you have thirteen
people in a coven and they start to do a
ritual at a location. They have their altar, they have
their books, they have their candles or whatever their elements
of witchcraft are. But there may be a hundred people
there in the spirit world in their astral form. Yes,
(36:59):
So at that ritual site where this evil is occurring,
some of those people are there because they're intentionally going
there and that's what they do as witches or warlocks.
And then there are victims that are being pulled out
of body and trafficked to those locations to be abused
with the events occurring in the physical but in the spirit. Yeah,
(37:22):
and all of this causes damage, like none of it
is without consequence. And I think that is where you
can't really separate the anti trafficking movement from the agenda
of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
There's no way. I mean, I I see survivors struggle,
I feel like so much longer without Jesus. Then survivors
(38:02):
that I know that encounter Jesus and the true One,
the real One, and start their healing journey, because there's
just it's too complex when you talk about abuse happening
with the soul and fractured parts, when you talk about
the spirit man and all and the abuse happen happening
with your spirit and then also phys like body, soul
(38:25):
and spirit, Like you can't just address the body and
the mental health. Like there's it's so multifaceted. And the
power of the Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus came to
establish the realm of the Kingdom bringing heaven on earth
was like such good news. Not only the death, burial,
(38:49):
and resurrection of Jesus, but the Kingdom of Heaven being
established on earth because being trafficked and exploited, whether you've
experienced the ritual abuse site or not, you have experienced
realms of hell, whether you know it or not, being
exploited by Satan, by people under Satan's influence, and so
coming out of so much darkness. And even if you
(39:12):
talk to a survivor of sex trafficking that maybe doesn't
have recollection of any ritual abuse activity, but they sure
know that demons have shown up. They'll talk about seeing
black figures coming in the room. They'll talk about all
kinds of horrific stuff happening at night, and they'll talk
about the astro rapes and all these things happening at night.
And they may not know about richual abuse or even
have ritual abuse in their past, but they're definitely dealing
(39:34):
with the spiritual warfare elements of it. And so when
we learn not only about who Jesus is and what
Jesus did for us while he was on the earth,
and then also through his death, burial and resurrection, like
the reality of the Kingdom of Heaven is such good
news that there is like righteousness, peace and joy available
(39:56):
that is not just a bunch of talk impressive words.
It's power that we can actually like he can. He
commissions out his disciples, heal the sick, cast out demons,
clemzells with felepasy, raise the dead like so the whole body,
soul and spirit can actually completely be healed and delivered
(40:16):
and set free. And then also like for me, a
huge part of the healing was, oh, my gosh, I
can be clean like the righteousness when he said, seek
first his Kingdom and his righteousness, and then all these
these lesser things will be given to you. That righteousness
piece was like, oh my gosh, stepping into that revelation
(40:39):
of the kingdom, because I felt my entire life so
dirty from everything that I went through. And so he
actually healed and restored and delivered and deprogrammed my body,
my soul and spirit, and like my physical body is healthy.
That is a me. It's a miracle that I'm not insane.
(41:04):
It's a miracle that I'm even alive. I've tried to
take my own life. I've had guns held in my head.
I could have been dead and gone so many times
over the course of my testimony time. But it really
is true, like God's word really is true and and
Jesus really is the solution. He's the whole solution, the
(41:25):
whole way, the truth and the life to completely being
healed and restored.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
So well stated talk to me about the Disney stuff
and doll programming.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, I think that that was a part of really
setting me up for it made me even more susceptible
to future trafficking experiences because for me, with the Disney
princess programming, it involved Disney movies being played as a
(42:12):
little as a toddler, stripping and dancing and doing a
princess dance, and it involved like good girl programming, being
a good girl, following all of the commands of what
I was being told to do, and being like a
(42:32):
princess and being essentially just being that doll, being whatever
they wanted me to be. And so what was interesting
is other traffickers in my future future, you know, exploitation.
(42:53):
I remember one time, like when I was trafficked overseas
as an adult from Hollywood to a I was so
to a billionaire clothing designer and he's a Satanist and
one of the girls when she initially was confronting me
once I landed there, she was like, they do this
(43:15):
thing called and I don't know what you call it,
but like I call it like trauma checking and like
program checking to like see like they'll say certain code
words and like look at your eyes to see if
your eyes dilate, and to s like if you're so.
I don't know, you probably have a better term for that,
but that's just what I what I call it. But
she did that, and she was trying to see. She
was using like good girl and like different words that
(43:37):
were connected to programming. So I'm like, how how do
these people? It's like you're marked in the spirit realm
once you engage in or are forced to engage in,
rather these different types of programming. It's like in the
spirit realm, people in the occult can see it and
know it now.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
In all of them. Your explanation, I mean, you don't believe, however,
that you were signed up for a project. You believe
that you just went from one bad situation to the
next and kept being identified by these occultists and people
in the know.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
I think that I was initiated in. I think that
there was very strategic intention by the programmer. I was
only with her for six months, and I believe that
there were things initiated and started, but there wasn't well,
(44:43):
I will say, the thing that I kept ending up
in was these different trafficking situations where I then would
the part of me that was the good girl, the
princess that would just free the freeze trauma response, the
fond friend trauma response like would just happen because of
that programming and that setup and then being tried. I believe,
(45:04):
if anything, the programming that I was set up for
was the sex slave like sex trafficking, because I ended
up getting sold to different celebrities in Hollywood and different
elite people, and my programming made me the perfect candidate
to service those individuals well, but it wasn't like at
(45:30):
that point like street level trafficking. And so, if anything,
I think that's what I was marked with in programmed
to do and assigned to do, because that's what I
saw kept happening over and over and over and over
and no matter where I moved, no matter what I did,
no matter what was going on, until I got completely
(45:53):
set free.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
So I have here in front of me Hitler concentration
camp programming. Now, how does that play into all of
what you just said?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
I know, so that was a realm that I would
get pulled into.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
A realm, a realm meaning not in the physical.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Not in the physical world. This was a realm. So
I would get pulled into this realm that was a
concentration camp where I would be lined up and numbered
with I don't even know how many, And it was
like the barbed wire fences all the way around the
perimeter buildings where a house is behind, torture and all
(46:39):
kinds of things that were happening in these in these buildings,
and the bad people would actually have German shepherds and
they would move down the line and it was like
you could feel the evil coming towards you and the
momentum of that happening, and it was like, I don't
(47:00):
know how, but something about with the dogs. That's how
they would come up and they would select which one
of us programmed victimized people that were lined up that
were going to be hurt or further programmed or taken
somewhere else from that place. And so I have I
(47:21):
experienced that in the spirit realm. And when all this
stuff is going on, you don't really know what type
of programming this is or what type of until you
start learning later on. Well, I don't want to say
that for everybody, but for me, I wasn't fully aware
of like what it was until I started healing.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
So there's abuse happening in a physical yea abuse in
a spiritual. Now as you're going through it, was it
clear to you what was physical and what was spiritual
the whole time? Or was there some confusion about that
or was there an experience of not really knowing where
(48:06):
the physical stopped and the spiritual started It was just life.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
I would say there was definitely confusion about it because
of my fractured parts, so switching parts. And then there
were also things like I mentioned earlier, where my consciousness
was focused on whatever the programmer or the occult member
wanted me to be focused on, like the spinning and
rotating of my soul being, you know, fractured during stuff
(48:35):
happening where I wasn't fully aware of everything going on
in the room, but I was focusing on what they
led me to focus on, or in the programming. When
I was in that programming location of that purple place,
rotating from room to room, That's what my consciousness was
aware of and looking at. But you ask about the
(48:57):
physical abuse that happened with that therapist. I'm certain there was,
but I wasn't focused on that at that time. My
awareness after she was, when she was hypnotizing me and
bringing me into those places was there. So it was
almost like my body was like frozen and numb while
these things were happening because they capitalize off of the
(49:17):
dissociative state, you know. And so for me, yes, it
was very confusing as far as a line of what
all took place physically and then you know, in the
in the spirit realm. And then I will say like
even in my healing and freedom journey, I would still
(49:39):
have nightmares later in life of what happened to me
early on, which is triggering because you wake up feeling like,
you know, just the the trauma of remembering all of
those those traumatic experiences from when you're younger. So it's like,
(50:01):
not only did I have to work through getting healing
and freedom from that stuff, but then that work through
the triggers, like what do you do when you're triggered
and stay present and don't split again, don't refracture, don't
just because you're triggered. So it's like the healing and
the freedom and then the staying free and getting rid
(50:24):
of being harassed by the nightmares or the trump that
was like a whole nother wave of healing after to
stop the nightmares of what happened, and Jesus did stop it.
Now I sleep like a baby, Praise God. But I
think that's another thing that sometimes I think survivors struggle
with is they think that because I'm triggered, I'm not healed,
(50:49):
and the enemy will bring in condemnation and set up
a trick and a trap right there, a hidden trap
to try to regain access to keep it going. And
so I think that getting the healing and the freedom,
of course is major, but then also knowing how to
(51:09):
stay free and having this support to stay free after
is really important too.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
You're doing such a great job and breaking all of
this down. I know that it's helping so many people
because this has lived experience, and for a lot of
a lot of people, especially those that have backgrounds of
different kinds of abuse, it's a journey of connecting the dots.
(51:34):
There are so many people that have so many questions
about why did this happen to me? Why did that
happen to me? Why am I still going through this
and there is a lack of affirmation available and we're
providing that and you're just doing so well, and so
you know, I want to just keep kind of going
(51:57):
deeper for a second into some of this. So you
were take into this Hitler realm. Are there other realms
that you remember specifically being trafficked to and programmed in?
Speaker 2 (52:11):
There was this one location I knew it was in Jerusalem,
I don't know where, but where there was this it
was like a false holiness. It was a false holy location.
So it looked like it was all white. But have
you like if you've ever seen like after like a bonfire,
(52:32):
how there's like that white ash, you know, that's like
the remains of like you know, whatever, the log being burnt.
That's like what was all over the realm. So if
you first look at it, it looks like holy, it
looks like white, but it was actually that ash, that
ash white and it was a temple and there was
(52:56):
this like discuss sting white dragon that was there. And
so I was pulled into that realm and I was
wearing what looked like all white, and I was just
in this line and it was like we had when
(53:19):
we got to the front of the line. We were
raped by that thing Golley, And so there's that. I mean,
there's a few others, but that that one was.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
How old were you?
Speaker 5 (53:36):
Do you have an idea I believe that that happened,
That that happened or being pulled into that realm was
somewhere in my childhood, but I don't.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
I don't remember like the exact age.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
So this is one of those that came back to
you as like a dream that wasn't a dream, and
then so you woke up having been abused and not
really knowing what to do about it. I guess I
don't have to ask do you believe dragons are real?
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Why? Dan I think they are?
Speaker 4 (54:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
The funny thing is people like to like, you know,
chalk this up to just like fantasy, like, oh you
believe in dragons. It's like Satan is the red dragon,
like he is. And frankly, I have dealt with people
that have come from dragon bloodlines because somehow spiritually maybe
this with a physical incarnation of some fort so these
(54:35):
spirits are able to see like the way that they
abuse people sexually is not always limited only to spiritual abuse,
Like there's another side of that whole thing. I mean,
this is wild and Jerusalem, I mean you bring that
up is such a key place because it is literally
(54:58):
like the center of almost every major global lay line there.
They all all these lay lines converge on Jerusalem. And
so from I mean we could use the term energetic
perspective from an occult perspective, I mean from a biblical
historical perspective, like Jerusalem is the center of so much. Yeah, yeah,
(55:24):
Now Jesus was no stranger to the powers of darkness
or confronting them. What has he shown you?
Speaker 2 (55:36):
Yeah, I think when I when I started my healing journey,
I mean, there's so much that he's that He's shown me.
But one of the things that was really powerful as
I was like working through the healing from all of
this stuff in the spirit realm was in Matthew four, like,
(55:56):
so we don't have a high priest, it doesn't understand
this stuff. Raise Jesus like he subjected himself to so
much to give us a solution and a strategy in
a way. And so in Matthew chapter four, when he
was you know, fasting and praying for forty days and
(56:18):
nights in the wilderness, and Satan came to tempt him
and really wage war with him. I had always read
over that like, oh, maybe it was just like a
conversation on a park bench, like they were just like talking.
But when you really like get into it. And for
sake of time, I'm just going to jump to the
third time that Satan came to him, which interestingly, he
took him to Jerusalem too. But the third time was
(56:43):
it said that he pulled him up and it was
in the spirit room the Lord allowed himself to experience
the worst warfare. I believe that exists where he was
pulled up to a high mountain, to a high place
and say and showed him all the kingdoms of the
world and was saying, I'll give you all this if
(57:03):
you got out and worship me. Now we know that's
in the spirit realm, because there's no mountain that exists
where you could see in the natural all of the
kingdoms of the world. The world's not flat. If anybody didn't.
Speaker 3 (57:16):
Know that, well, I believe I believe it. Now you
might get some arguing people in the comments, but we
will with you.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
God bless all the people that argue in the comments.
Lord let them encounter you, Jesus, we bless them, Lord.
But but so it was so he was pulled in
the spirit realm, and you know he's he's waging war.
This is warfare in the spirit realm. We know it
had to be a huge warfare because even Jesus himself
needed angels to minister to him after coming out of that,
(57:46):
like angels came to minister to him after this. But
the thing that's so beautiful is he the power of
the word of God that Jesus responded with every time
of the three times that Satan came against him. But
when the Lord was showing that to me, it just
brought so much healing to know that he experienced and
(58:12):
humbled himself too be pulled in the spirit realm and
engage in that level of warfare, so that myself and
everyone else that's experienced the same types of warfare being
pulled in realms would know. My Jesus the one understands
(58:33):
like he he understands me, and he also has the
strategy of how to get out of this stuff. And
I feel like that level of understanding to me is
also a beautiful like demonstration of love because when he
(58:54):
tells me he loves me. I'm like he loves me,
but he also really understands me. I can talk about anything,
and he like he humbled himself to go through He
didn't have to go through any of that, and he
certainly didn't have to go through the Cross, but did.
And we were the joy set before him that gave
him what he empowered him to be able to continue
(59:17):
going through it. But then he also descended into hell,
took the keys from Satan, and rose with all power
and authority in his hands. So he went into every realm.
I think he's at Ephesians, but there's a scripture we're
talked about. He went into every realm led captain like.
He established his authority and his power in his dominion everywhere,
(59:38):
So there is no place that a person could be
trapped in that the power and the authority of Jesus,
who loves them and understands and is not angry at
them or judging them or harsh or legalistic with them.
He loves them, he understands, and his authority and power
can get into every single place because he overcame all
(01:00:01):
of it, and he went there for us, and then
he invites us into that authority and power to move
with him.
Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
So beautifully stated.
Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
See, and that's why I'm a Jesus guy. I mean,
what other what other God is worth serving? I mean,
you know, it's it's so interesting, you know when I
when I'm working with people and I meet their parts
that are very loyal to evil beings, including Satan. You know,
(01:00:39):
oftentimes I'll ask them, well, how does Satan deal with
you when you make a mistake? Whoa you know? And
and they'll have a lot of arrogance and pride until
that question gets asked, because the answer is always the
same torture. Yeah, it's always punishment. Rule through fear. We
(01:00:59):
have a God that rules through love, whose mercies are
new every morning.
Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Thank you Lord.
Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
It's a game changer.
Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
And I feel like even the fear of the Lord
is from a place of love. Come on, It's like,
I'm so in love with you that I put you first.
It's not like Satan's type of fear. It's like a
whole different thing. And so, yeah, He's so good. It's
the only reason why I'm alive and sane and in
(01:01:35):
my right mind, in one soul and able to just
do the work that I do. I would not be
alive today without the Lord, There's absolutely no way.
Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
So what happened at twelve for you?
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
So yeah, So going back to twelve, what was really
interesting and this is some of the stuff that I
learned afterwards again with like understanding the types of programming
that happened to me, and also the timeline of my life,
because there were significant ages the eighteen months two three
being initiated. Three. At nine, I started having a surge
(01:02:18):
of all kinds of spiritual warfare and more being brought
to different locations and programming stuff at age nine. That
was leading up to age twelve, where then I made
a decision to get into witchcraft, into WICCA, and because
I was trying to make sense of all of the
realms and the spiritual warfare and the people that were
(01:02:40):
showing up in my room. But it got really intense
at nine leading up to twelve, and so at age
twelve when I made that decision to just full blown
go into witchcraft, I'm thinking, oh, I'm a healer. I'm
doing good. You know, this is probably good stuff because
now everything is somewhat making sense. And this is all
(01:03:01):
before I met Jesus, by the way, But I did.
I was led to do a ritual on the beach
and it was a Satanic ritual, you know, drawn in
a circle, and I mean the black hood, the whole
get up. And I did a whole ritual on the
(01:03:21):
beach with two other people, and that broke hell wide
open even more goodness. But I thought, and so now
that I realized, like in hindsight and in my healing journey,
twelve is such a significant age. Also, I think because
of what Jesus did at twelve, that was like the
(01:03:43):
first time that independent of his earthly parents, He's like,
I gotta be about my father's business. So there's something
about like free will decisions made at twelve, independent of
parental decisions that I feel like, bring a whole nother
layer of entangled of agreement with Satan, because now it's
(01:04:04):
like you're kind of in the spirit realm looked at
as an adult and so so yeah, so that happened
at twelve, and so again it's just it's so interesting
learning and going back on the timeline Blafe and I'm like, oh,
now I see why at this age, this age, this age,
this age, and all the more just the reason for
us to be so so aware of the power of
(01:04:27):
age twelve even as believers.
Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Steve, thank you for sharing that, and for the parents
out there, that's also probably a helpful peace. So you
did this at twelve, and it just broke everything wide open. Now, now,
when when did you really start to be like I
(01:04:55):
guess eyed for trafficking to Hollywood? Like, how were you
still a teenager?
Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
So I experienced exploitation at fourteen again at seventeen in
San Francisco and the strip clubs and hotels there, But
I didn't get to Hollywood until like age twenty. Like
I moved there thinking I was going to get into
acting and modeling and that that was going to be
(01:05:22):
a great idea. I knew Jesus at that time. I
was actually thinking, oh, maybe this is how I fulfill
my purpose of like helping people and stuff like that.
Now I knew Jesus, but he was not fully leading
my life. I wasn't fully surrendered or yielded. I just
was including him in a little bit at that point.
So there's a huge difference between knowing him a little
(01:05:44):
bit and then being fully surrendered in your life being
led by him. But so yeah, age twenty, I moved
there for modeling and acting, and that's when I ended
up getting exploited for four years in Hollywood, and it
(01:06:04):
was kind of masked as you know, going to auditions
or like work for acting or modeling, and then it
would always turn into some type of like just being
raped or assaulted or and so I would be invited
(01:06:26):
into some like even elite like after hours types type
parties where I would see big celebrities actually, like I
remember one time opening a door on accident and they
these celebrities, big names I won't I won't name them
right now, but were in the middle of a ritual.
(01:06:50):
They were sitting in a it was a small room
and the chairs were all faced around like like backs
to the walls, and they were all sitting in the
chairs face forward. And I opened the door and I
was like and the sheer like evil and terror, and
like closed the door. And that was in the natural,
(01:07:10):
not in the spirit realm that that I saw that,
And just realizing the people in Hollywood that are connected
with a part of Satanism, Illuminati and all of those things,
like I think now it's it's way, it's all over.
It's like it's really easy to see like, if you
(01:07:32):
can't look at some of these concerts and some of
these things that are going on like and see it
and recognize it, it's it's all over. But at that time,
there weren't like really conversations about satanism and ritual abuse
and like rituals and all of that. So for reference,
I'm forty one now, so that that was a little
(01:07:53):
a little wow a little while back. But yeah, and
then I was I would get sold to people that
were involved in the occult and different celebrities that I
was supposed to be working for. But then I would realize, oh,
this is what it's really about and be.
Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
Heard Now with your background being between realms and recognizing
that you had the parts. Now as you got into
this phase of your story from twenty to twenty four
and that exploitation, would you feel the parts taking over
at times? And did you know that that was happening?
(01:08:36):
Did you have or was that just such a subconscious
process it didn't really register And a good question what
role at that season twenty to twenty four did the
other realms play in your experience?
Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
I think that it was a subconscious thing at that time.
I do in hindsight realize that there were certain individuals
because all of them, all of the exploitation in Hollywood
wasn't necessarily with Satanists, but the ones that were involved
in the occult, they always say those code words and
(01:09:15):
things to kind of see like what are we working
with here? You know? And so I think for me,
it was more of a subconscious thing, and I think
I looked at it as more so like trauma responses,
but I was switching, and then there were a lot
of memories that were just like completely gone because a
(01:09:38):
different part was experiencing it. So for me, it was
more like a survival coping than it was me intentionally
switching or knowing that I was switching. It was more
so those programs and parts of me would take over
(01:10:03):
and handle all of that. And then I would come
out of a experience of you know, being hurt by
by someone or raped in some mansion somewhere, and I
just knew, I knew my body was hurting, I knew
I knew I was struggling with depression and with mental
(01:10:29):
health challenges and confused and all of these things afterwards,
and would just drink, you know, like just try to
numb whatever was going on, So there was a lot
of confusion, but I definitely had parts that would like
take over and dan. I'm gonna say, I am thankful
that I had parts. I'm thankful, and I think it's
(01:10:52):
the brilliance of God that he created the soul in
a way to compartmentalize trauma and unimaginable torture and pain,
because I I don't think I could have kept going
in life with a full conscious awareness of everything I
(01:11:13):
went through. So for the time of my life that
I had parts, I'm so thankful that I did, because
I don't think I would have been able to alive,
be alive if God didn't create the soul intentionally that
way so that he could then be the one that
heals the fractured broken heart and you know, restores and
brings it all back, brings it all back together, because
(01:11:34):
those parts would switch out and take on that torture,
take on that abuse, and then I would keep going discombobulated,
not even remembering like when I got sold Overseas to
the to the billionaire clothing designer and all the stuff
that happened with that, Like when I came back, I
didn't remember it. I had no recollection of what happened
(01:11:55):
when I was gone. It was years later that I
all of that, you know, started coming back up. So
I'm thankful that I had parts when I did.
Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
And that's one of the things that you know, I've
been saying for a long time, and you know, I
just reiterated here because it's relevant. Dissociation isn't bad, right,
It's design. Everyone dissociates, and depending on how much trauma
(01:12:33):
a person has survived, that dissociation may be more extenuating
or severe, and it only becomes a disorder or when
the dissociation itself creates dysfunction in a person's life. And unfortunately,
when people have been through a lot of exploitation, there
(01:12:56):
is dysfunction that comes because of the different ways they've
had to dissociate. But it's not in and of itself.
It's not bad. It is design. God knew we would
need dissociation to survive this world. And I think that
that is something that survivors need to hear, because I
think some people feel very guilty when they realize I
(01:13:19):
have parts, and there are different parts of me that
do jobs, especially if those jobs are not so good jobs,
and there can be a lot of shame and a
lot of self hatred around that. I mean, I believe
actually that self hatred and self rejection sit at the
root of maintaining a dissociative disorder. It's like, you know,
(01:13:39):
I don't want to know those identities because they are
the worst parts of me that God would himself reject.
And it's that's not They're in a single part of you.
Jesus doesn't love.
Speaker 5 (01:13:51):
That's so.
Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
When people get comfortable with the reality that dissociation is
not bad, it's just design, I mean, really helps to
overcome some hurdles. It's like, you know, you didn't associate
because you were weak or because you were bad, or
because you were not good enough. We all do it, and.
Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
So yeah, and also parts are not demons.
Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Can we just say that you need to preach it,
give me, let.
Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Me get this bike. Like that's something that the Body
of Christ has got to become more aware of because
and now we're not even talking about just sex trafficking
or ritual abuse, but just the average church goer in America. Okay,
that has parts we can't look at. I've seen so
(01:14:46):
many times. Did I experience it myself? And so many
others where well meaning believers are trying to bind and
rebuke and cast out parts of a soul and are
screaming and demonizing these parts. And so it's like, I
just think there's a beautiful opportunity for the Body of
(01:15:06):
Christ to learn, for people that are in deliverance or
interhaling ministries to get better understanding is they will be
way more effective in the work that they do if
they really understand God's design and dissociation and parts and
that they are not demons. You cannot cast out a
(01:15:30):
part of somebody's soul and think that's going to result
in healing. It's actually perpetuating the same trauma that probably
caused that split or that fracture in the first place.
And now you, as a person representing Jesus, have just
become an abuser. And so I just think there's a
beautiful opportunity. I think anybody that is in church, anybody
(01:15:53):
that is on a prayer team, anybody that is in
deliverance or interhaling ministry, one of the best things they
could do their continuing education is learn how to understand
parts and how to navigate with that, you know, with wisdom,
with the love of Christ and certainly without judgment.
Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
So now you are doing a lot and advocating for survivors,
and you teach on trauma informed care, you have other outreaches.
What what is the burden that God has put on
(01:16:33):
the inside of you to bring to the survivor community
and those that are escaping human trafficking.
Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Yes, yeah, so we do have a survivor community as
well as like a service provider academy. I would say
on the survivor community side, it's just having a place
to continue growing in faith with others who understand with
lived experience and just having understanding and support and we're
(01:17:04):
all on fire for the Lord, like going after him
and our healing journeys. There's just I think that that
no matter where someone is at in their healing journey,
whether they're like still experiencing some stuff, whether they're in
a safe home or you know later in life, like
having community of people that understand is just one of
the greatest blessings. And a survivor led community. So we
(01:17:29):
do Bible study, prayer, you know, and just create different
opportunities to continue healing and empowering each other. But not
just focusing on the past, but also empowering to move
forward from a kingdom perspective. And I would say on
the service provider's side, probably one of my greatest burdens
that I carry for teaching and training individuals about how
(01:17:51):
to work with sex trafficking survivors is really to understand
what's happening inside of us at those points of contact
when they're trying to minister to us or help. And
to me, trauma informed care means truly understanding the trauma
of the individuals you're serving, and I think that that
(01:18:11):
also carries over into deliverance settings. It's possible to do
trauma informed deliverance. You know, where it is like Jesus
led and survivor led, what the survivor is ready for,
what they're choosing, what they feel safe to go into,
and being empowered to build their own relationship with the
(01:18:31):
Lord versus just codependency on someone that's helping them. And
I think that's one of the greatest gifts that we
can give to survivors of sex trafficking who are healing,
is empower them to know how to interact with the
Lord in a way where they can not just get
free when they're sitting in a session, but now they
(01:18:52):
know how to talk to the Lord, they know how
to navigate on their own, and they can stay free
because of that. Like so yeah, that's those are some
of the things that I'm really compassionate, you know about
with service providers. And I also just want to say that,
like anybody that's saying yes to doing this work is
a really incredible person because it takes a lot of
(01:19:16):
christ likeness and love and compassion to see people that
have been through stuff like myself and say I'm going
to be a part of that, you know. So I
think it's really important even with people that are providing
ministry and services to survivors, to experience like learning from
(01:19:37):
a place of like the Kingdom of Heaven, Like even
though we're talking about dark stuff, we can still have
joy and like peace, His joy is amazing. It's like
there has to be a balance of you're doing the
hard work, but you can also like encounter Heaven and
like encounter Jesus and like be refreshed by the Holy
(01:19:58):
Spirit and all of those to do it and not
be like a bitter Beatrice or an angry Pharisee, you know.
Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
So anyway, I love I mean it is just Yeah,
I've met so many different personality types and some of
them are like, you know how you are so upset
right now at life deliverance has not you know, done
good for your joy and there is a higher revelation
(01:20:30):
you know, Sula, There's a lot that we we have covered,
but there's a lot more because we didn't even touch
a book.
Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
Yeah, yeah, we're.
Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
Going to have you back and we're going to get
into a whole lot more on some of the other
side of this conversation. Uh, even even the beautiful things
that God has shown you, things that have contributed deeply
to your healing journey that is going to translate to
the redemptive process he's taking others through. But again, for
(01:21:01):
those of you that are watching this, uh, Sula Layell
dot com and take Flight Survivors dot org. Yes, those
are your websites.
Speaker 5 (01:21:12):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
And and her book, which we'll be discussing on a
later conversation, is The Unashamed Bride. Sula, thank you for
being here. I just want to honor you. You just
doing an incredible work.
Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
Thanks for making this easy to talk about stuff that
I've never talked about publicly.
Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
I can tell Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:21:39):
Well friends. Until next time, God bless and God Speak.
You've been listening to Discovering Truth with Dan Deval. Visit
mere dandeval dot com, where you will discover merch books
(01:22:00):
and the opportunity to engage in our private social network.
Joined the Tribe by subscribing to our email list and
supporting this podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
You are listening to the French radio network franradionetwork dot com.
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