Life in Hyperfocus

I've been producing podcasts for ten years, and this might be the episode that I am most proud of. Life in Hyperfocus is a very vulnerable conversation with one of my best friends about a shared experience of an ADHD diagnosis as an adult. Learning about being neurodivergent and understanding neurodiversity has forever changed how I see the world.

Resources
How to ADHD
I Have ADHD Podcast
Scattered Minds - Gabor Maté

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/garrettgaudet/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@garrettgaudet
Email: [e-mail]
Website: https://www.garrettgaudet.com/

*The information in this episode is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. *

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, it's Geracdet and welcome tothe Gyaracadet podcast. Just a quick little
intro before we get into this episode. This episode is a conversation with my
best friend Jen and I about ashared experience we both had over the last
two years about both receiving an ADHDdiagnosis as adults. ADHD is a neural
developmental disorder or condition as classified bythe DSM five and it's a very vulnerable

(00:28):
and open conversation, honest conversation thatwe both have about what it's like to
live as neurodiversent individuals and how itimpacts our daily life and how we came
to discovering what ADHD is. AndI'm really proud of this episode as it's
a conversation that I would have wantedto hear going through this process myself.

(00:52):
So please enjoy this week's episode andmake sure to follow and subscribe to this
podcast. This week we have avery special episode as my friend Jen is

(01:14):
joining me on the podcast. She'sbased out of Melbourne, Australia, and
it's a good time to catch up. So how's your day going? Hey,
my day's going good. I meanwe've been on the phone the entire
day time difference wise. Obviously it'sthe morning here for me and nighttime for
you. And it's taken us almosttwo hours to start, so that's going

(01:40):
on. Yeah, So to pullback the curtain, we've tried to record
many, many podcasts over the yearsand it just hasn't seemed to work.
But here we are going for aprobably a third time. I'd say this
is at least the third. Ithink maybe there was another one that we've
both blocked out, but I particularlyremember too. We've definitely sat down back

(02:06):
when I had my office and wespent a lot of time there, and
there's lots of time to record apodcast, and it just never got done.
Yeah, well it got done andthen we hated it or we just
gave up on editing it, likea few times. So perfect segue.
I was gonna say that leads usinto it does lead us into it.

(02:28):
And we've we've been best friends,very good friends for many, many years,
and we've recently both had a similarexperience of an ADHDA diagnosis, and
this comes in our mid twenties,and I think we were both surprised by

(02:50):
it. Yeah, I wasn't okayfor either of us. But have you.
I just want to like to introthis. Have you talked publicly yet
in any of your platforms about likeany of no, your recent diagnosis or
no, I haven't. It's thefirst time. Yeah, no, I

(03:14):
think that's a great place to startbecause it's probably gonna maybe come as a
surprise. I don't know, Butyou're right, I haven't said anything online.
And I think when it comes toa late diagnosis or an adult diagnosis,
I think it takes a long time, or at least speaking on my

(03:36):
experience, to I guess, cometo terms with it and understand what it
is and how it impacts me,how it affects me. And I think
because I'm now, I think ayear and a half after post diagnosis,
and yeah, I haven't talked aboutpublicly, but I thought what better way

(03:58):
to kind of discuss and I starteda conversation about it then with you that
can yeah, obviously relate to Iguess this life experience. Yeah, it
is funny that you haven't talked aboutit publicly because I mean, like,
we obviously call each other very frequentlyand are in contact all the time,
and so it's been such a partof our relationship for the past years,

(04:23):
yeah, or a year and ahalf ever since, because probably even before
that, I was thinking of goingto get a diagnosis, like I was
thinking about it before you were.But because of the Australian healthcare system and
being an immigrant, I obviously tooka lot longer to get the diagnosis than
you did. Is there like areason why you haven't talked about it publicly

(04:48):
or you just haven't thought too.I just I don't think I've ever known
how to start to talk about it. I think it definitely isn't my normal
amount of content, my normal styleof content, or topics that I discuss
online. Yeah, I just haven'tfound a good time to start talking about

(05:15):
it. But there's never an idealtime kind of thing to talk about something
like that, and it's just maybeI've been putting it off. But yeah,
I definitely haven't talked about it,and I think I've taken a step
to digest everything and now I'm readyto start an open kind of discussion and

(05:42):
start talking about it, because Ido know that I probably have a lot
of other friends that have ADHD andwe just haven't talked about it, like
yourself, Well that's the thing,or they're not diagnosed, which is exactly
what you and I went through.I'm curious too, Like, obviously,

(06:03):
this podcast that we're doing right now, this is a newer podcast view,
This is a new kind of spacefor you to post theres. Obviously you've
been podcasting for like a million yearsnow. I'm curious about even like eightm
weekly listeners because I know you don'tdo a lot of talking in eadim weekly,
but you still are like a personalitybehind the podcast. I wonder what

(06:27):
there if anyone kind of clocked thisbefore you did? Man, do you
know what I mean? Yeah,I'm sure there's been or even when you
did YouTube, like because you diddo and I think if we looked back
on like what was that video whereyou found the like bug in the state?
Yeah, that was gross. Ithink if we rewatched that now with

(06:47):
like a neurodivergent lens, like withthe education that we have now on like
what we've been experiencing, I thinkit would be really really obvious. I
think that's a good idea for videowhere we just react to old content that
I've done and just go, yeah, come on, how did well Yeah

(07:11):
that's the thing. How did wenot know Garrett and I met in college.
Do you want to talk about howwe Yeah, let's dive into that
and then kind of go from there. So we met in college, we
officially met, so to go furtherback, Oh, we met when we
were like yeah, yeah, yeah, so it was so I've always been

(07:31):
into sports, and I wanted totry acting, and it's kind of probably
the catalyst for trying different creative projectsand obviously that's led me down like a
life and creative path. So Iwant to try acting. And our local
theater company had a junior program whereteens tweens could put on a musical.

(08:00):
They were all musicals. Do youremember what musical? Yeah? So since
I only did one, I recallit very and I probably have the script
or whatever we use. So it'sa production of Alice in Wonder. Yeah.
They give us a little booklet.Yes, do you remember what I
was a card? I was newand I don't think anyone had a lot

(08:20):
of confidence. Yeah, a lotof confidence because I think I had one
or two words and that was it. Yeah, I was during a song,
so it's not even like a lineof dialogue. But yeah, we
did the auditions and then I gotViolet, which was like maybe a two
line role, which was honestly betterthan most of my roles because at least

(08:41):
I had a name that was likeseparate from yeah, like it wasn't like
hard number three. Yeah, thankyou. Yeah, you definitely had a
more significant role, but you alsohad more years there. But yeah,
that's that's the first time we met, and I didn't think, but I
don't remember meeting you at all.We have a photo together. We do
a photo together, we do,and that's the photographics that we met prior

(09:05):
to our college days, where that'swhere I think we definitely became friends and
obviously still friends today. Let's maybedive into I guess the college experience and
then post college. We don't haveto stay long on college. But I
think we both had a lot Weworked together on a lot of projects,

(09:28):
and I think we together. It'sa funny word seeing as like you were
doing we were in the same group, and we both had our names on
assignments. I was that girl ingroup projects. Yeah, to be fair,
I sucked in college. Yeah yeah, I think for me, college

(09:50):
was definitely it's my project and therejust happens to be other people's names on
the assignments and that's not forever coursebecause I obviously, yeah, of course
I excel that, and then othersthat were just happy to pass as it
just wasn't yeah, And it totallydepended. It depended who I was,

(10:11):
like in the project with If Iwas in a group project with you,
I was immediately like, I'm justnot gonna help. I was like this,
this guy is nice enough to beand he will probably just accept that
I'm not gonna do anything. Butif I was in a project with someone
else and I'm not gonna game anyone'sthere, but like we know who they

(10:35):
are, You're immediately like, oh, okay, well I have to do
this by myself, Like I'm notletting them do any of you have to
try. I think I've written downa note I was thinking about in college,
just the idea, because we wereboth undiagnosed, un medicated, completely
just like winging it in college,and so I was thinking about how that

(10:58):
kind of affects did us in college, and I think it really did,
like go in completely different directions tothe two of us. I gave up
the second I entered college. Ilike, well, maybe the first year
I tried a bit. But inhigh school, I was trying so hard
all the time to be good inschool, and it was like I knew

(11:20):
I had to try harder than everyoneelse, and I couldn't really pinpoint why,
but I just wanted to be reallygood in school. And then when
I kind of realized towards the endof high school that I am so fucking
tired and I had this burnout,and I knew, like I can't.
I could have applied to university andprobably got a scholarship, but I couldn't.
Like I literally, like I remembersitting with a guidance counselor and being

(11:43):
like, I just want to gosomewhere easy, Like I don't want to
use my brain anymore ever again,So business college was like the go to
kind of easy way out. Andthen I really got into college and just
stopped caring pretty quickly. I thinkyou cared a lot, if I'm being
honest, I think you really triedand I really didn't. Yeah, there's

(12:07):
definitely I would say two trajectories thatwe had and two very different approaches where
I know that it was probably makingup for high school in a lot of
different ways, where now it wasjust stuff that I was interested in and
cared about and could do well atall at once. And it's just kind

(12:31):
of fun to just really go atit hard and do well at it.
And it didn't take a lot ofeffort for me for a lot of those
projects or assignments or courses for thatto happen. Yeah, really for me
it was very easy. But becauseit was easy, I couldn't care.

(12:54):
Yeah, it wasn't maybe challenging enoughfor me. And also coming from an
art based high school, that waslike where I could actually like get into
it because I was interested in whatI was learning. I don't care about
business and I never did. Idon't know why I went to business school.
I was mentally ill and still am. But like, I think that

(13:18):
was the difference was you were likeinterested in it, and I think that's
a big I mean, I knowthat's a big motivating factor for like people
who have ADHD or on like anykind of neurodivergent spectrum. Is like you
have to care, and if youdon't care, you simply can't force yourself

(13:39):
to care. And if it's aninterest of yours, you're just going to
go all in. And I thinkthat's where we're different, and that's probably
how we approach it too. It'slike I was really interested and can still
talk for hours about business topics,but that's just not something that you do.
There were only like twenty people inour program. Yeah, and I

(14:03):
was the worst. I think youweren't the worst. You definitely weren't the
worst academically or as an individual.But I am. I am just so
messy. And I think that's wherealso there's a very noticeable difference between both
of us. Is I think Idefinitely portrayed myself for it came off as

(14:24):
very together and yappic. It totallywhere I definitely tried to be better than
everybody, and I think it wasvery evident of that, and I think
it was just probably how we copedifferently through it. Yeah, And I

(14:46):
mean that's that's masking. Oh that'ssomething we know about now. And I
was heavily masking in high school,and I think in college, like for
a little while, I probably was, but I just got real tired.
I had a lot of like personalstuff going on and like medical issues going

(15:09):
on. In college. Oh yeah, I don't know. I think I
just gave up on trying to likepretend that I had it together at all,
and I did really think, Idid really think that you had your
shit together for like at least thefirst full year probably of us being friends.
Like you probably didn't let that noslip until towards the end of college,

(15:33):
and then I kind of caught onand was like, wait a minute,
we actually are very similar, andI think that's why we've probably become
and stay good friends. It's justbecause I think fundamentally we get each other
without having to explain ourselves to eachother, and I think that's always kept
us together. But yeah, itwas definitely the mask war thin towards the

(15:56):
end of college, because I thinktoo, isn't a long time when it
comes to school comparatively, no diplomaor diploma to the university degree. Yes
it's half, it's half the time. Yeah, it's half the time.
And I think we both just madeit out in different ways where I don't

(16:18):
think either of us would have maybebeen successful in four years, well not
directly after at the time, notunmedicated. No, I really don't think
I would have been able to do. And I knew that going into it,
as that's why I went to college. I was like, I know
I'm qualified to go to university,but I can't, Like I want,

(16:40):
I can't do it, and Iwill knew it would just be setting myself
up for failure. And I thinkobviously at the time, I didn't really
know why. Yep, I don'tthink either of us had even I mean,
at the time, ADHD was sonot heavily talked about it. I
mean, right now, in thecurrent cultural space, so popular, like

(17:02):
it is really having a moment,Whereas at the time, I think it
was just little boys who had ADHD. Like I knew one person who had
ADHD or like, and it wasa boy, so I was like,
that's for a little boy, andthey like only talked about having it as
a child. Yeah, And Idon't think I was ever really exposed or

(17:23):
knew of anything about it. Yeah, I think. I mean, I
think it's great that now it is. I know, it's like it is
kind of trendy now. I knowI don't have TikTok, but I get
sent tiktoks by you and like Ryan, and I know it's kind of like
the cultural moment right now to havelike to be on the spectrum or have

(17:47):
ADHD or be I don't know,some kind of neurodivergent. But the thing
is, like, I think peoplewho are neurotypical look at that and they're
like, well, clearly it's notyou're faking it, because why would everyone
all of a sudden have it.And it's like, no, actually,
we've always it's always been like this, and now we just have the resources
and like the education to be like, wait, I don't actually have to

(18:11):
suffer through my life like pretending thatit isn't happening. Does that make sense?
I don't know if I'm like,honest, no, it makes a
lot of sense. If you don'tknow something exists, it's hard to identify
with it, especially if you're notconsuming content about that. And there was
never, at least during my life, I had been aware of something like

(18:33):
that existing, just because it's neverno one's talked about it at least with
me or yeah, yeah, so'sit. Really, it did kind of
come as a surprise because I didn'tthe timelines of thinking about it, considering
it and being diagnosed was days,if not months, like a few months.

(18:56):
Yeah, it did happen really quicklyfor you. It was a much
slower burn, I think for me. And we can move on to that
maybe do you yeah, yeah,yeah, let's move on to that.
So like diagnosis, how did weyeah, so to talk me through when
you started, I guess thinking aboutit, considering it, or have you
always kind of thought about it?Right? So I think to preface,

(19:23):
I have been very exposed to mentalhealth throughout my life, like I've always
I've known a lot about mental healthbecause I've grown up in a family of
very mentally ill people, and prettymuch everyone in my immediate family had something
going on, and my friends inhigh school. I went to an art

(19:45):
school, so we all had mentalillness because that's what you have when you
go to an art school, likeit's the way, it's the way it
works. My sister had a degreein sociology but did study a lot of
psychology, So I I was awareof mental illness, but I was always
aware of depression and anxiety stuff likethat, and I thought, that's what's

(20:07):
wrong with me. And I've alwaysthought that's what's wrong with me, and
it probably is as well. Butno one talked about ADHD for me in
my life until probably until I movedto Australia. Honestly, I knew there
was something not wrong with me,but I knew there was something more than
just my like diagnosed general anxiety disorderand diagnosed depression. I knew there was

(20:32):
like something deeper than that. AndI always thought that I was just really
lazy, Like that was a bigthing for me. Was like, I
just am lazier than other people,and that's just the way it is.
So when I moved in with mypartner when I had been living in Australia
for a little while, and wewent into the first COVID nineteen lockdown and

(20:55):
living in Melbourne, the lockdown severetheir longest lockdown in the world, we
have the records. So living again, like I'd only been dating this man
for a little bit of time andmoving into quite a small apartment and immediately

(21:15):
getting locked in it, we learneda lot about each other really quickly,
and I think he was honestly probablyone of the first people to point it
out to me that that was evena possibility. And he's not grown up
in a space where mental illness isa big thing for him. He's very
neurotypical and very privileged, and he'saware of that, and so I don't

(21:37):
even know how he came across theknowledge. I know his best friend has
ADHD, but again, it's likelittle boys have ADHD. That's the way
it goes, and girls don't traditionallyfor diagnosis. But I think it might
have been because he was on TikTok. Oh. Yeah, like, and
I've never been on TikTok because Ican't handle it. I get really overwhelmed

(22:00):
for stimulating and I can't look atall those little videos. But I think
it was because he was on TikTokand that was twenty twenty, was like
the beginning of that moment, andso he probably locked in a tiny apartment.
I am jobless and desperate for ajob, and I'm taking a fucking
Harvard coding course because I got likestressed and bored and thought that that would

(22:22):
fix me. So I took CSfifty, which I feel like some people
might knowbo because it's quite a popularcourse. And I just couldn't I couldn't
be in school. I couldn't doschool, especially from home, and just
being locked in that small space.I think Ryan was seeing these tiktoks and
looking at me and being like,wait a minute, have you ever thought

(22:45):
And I don't even remember it gettingbrought up, but I know that is
the time that I started thinking aboutit, and I can't see why I
would have come to that conclusion withouthim pointing that out or at least saying,
have you considered that that you mightbe displaying some of these characteristics?
And then since that point that wasthe let's say August twenty twenty, that

(23:12):
was probably around the time where thatfirst kind of got brought up for me,
because that was when I was takingthat course, and that is when
I started thinking about it. AndI pretty much right away as soon as
I looked into ADHD and the symptoms, especially the symptoms for women, which
obviously differ significantly to men and adultwomen specifically, I think right away I

(23:34):
just kind of knew. I waslike, oh, yeah, that's that
is it. That makes a lotof sense. But I didn't get a
diagnosis until twenty twenty two. Augustprobably would have been yeah, because right
that was last year, Yes,right, well, yeah, that is

(23:56):
last year. So it was toofully years of me being pretty convinced that
I had it, but obviously notwanting to say anything publicly because I didn't
have a diagnosis. But I thinkthat's a big issue as well with adhd
as. Like people get annoyed whenyou self diagnose things that you see on

(24:17):
TikTok, which is like fair enough, but getting a diagnosis in places specifically
like Australia and the UK, theUK is particularly bad. It takes years.
It takes a long time. Ittook me when I started trying to

(24:37):
get the diagnosis. I was ona wait list for a year, a
full year for a psychiatrist that wasrecommended to me by my general practitioner.
So obviously it's diagnosed differently in Australiathan it is in Canada, and yet
it took a long time to geta diagnosis. So I really did have
to operate on the fact that I'mjust going to assume I have this,

(24:57):
and I'm going to tell my friendmy family that that's like I'm pretty sure
I have this. This is likehow I'm gonna I'm gonna start using the
coping mechanisms and recommended treatments. Obviouslynot medication because I didn't have a diagnosis
and didn't have access to any illegalmedication, but like I just had to
start operating on the assumption that thisis what's going on with me and I
think a lot of people have todo that, and that's why I find

(25:18):
it so frustrating when neurotypical people willbe like, Wow, you've just self
diagnosed based on like shit you've seenon TikTok. It's like, well,
sometimes people don't have the option toget a diagnosis. It's expensive too.
Here, I have Medicare, I'ma but there aren't a lot of public
health options for ADHD here, soI did have to go through private health

(25:41):
and even with private health care thatI pay for, I think it cost
me around two or three grand allout of like the appointments just to get
that diagnosis, like written by adoctor, and that doesn't count like needing
to get medication and continuing to care. So yeah, I think it's worth

(26:03):
pointing out that, like it's okayto operate on the assumption that you have
some sort of neurodivergency if you don'thave a diagnosis. Obviously, don't medicate
yourself if you don't have a diagnosis. But if you want to use the
coping mechanisms that are recommended for ADHD, and you don't have a piece of
paper that says you have ADHD,there shouldn't be anything wrong with that,
no, whatever works for you acrossthe board. Anyway, I went on

(26:26):
a tangent, and I don't knowwhy. I think I just the feeling
of relief, and I think you'llkind of feel this way too. That
was the biggest thing for me.I just felt so relieved that there was
something like that I could point toand be like, wait a minute,
I'm not actually just a lazy personor I'm not actually like completely useless,

(26:52):
which is totally the way that Ifelt for a long time about things like
school and jobs, like I've hada million jo because I can't stick with
things and just huge emotional reactions isa big thing, especially for women with
ADHD and overstimulation stuff like that.Like I finally had something to point to
where it was like, this isnot just like a personality trait, like

(27:14):
I am not just that. Yeah, it's not like I don't just have
a shitty personality or like just abad motivation. I don't know if that's
a word, but like for along time that's how I operated, just
being like well I just kind ofsuck like at most things, and having
that diagnosis or even not even havingthe diagnosis, but having the knowledge that

(27:37):
that was probably something that I had, it was like a big relief for
me. Did you experience the samekind of thing, Yeah, I would
say so. I definitely think ifyou're into adulthood and in adults, you
don't start considering things like ADHD orany narrow divergence or divergency if things are

(28:02):
going well, Yeah, because Ithink it takes a breaking point or something
in your life to go okay,we need to start looking into how we
can be better or start to identifywhat's going on. And I yeah,

(28:22):
like, you don't buy a selfhelp book when you feel good about yourself
exactly exactly, So that's definitely howit got started for me. I definitely
think there have been many moments ofburnout where I've just been pushed to the
edge. I think it is definitelyowning my own business and many businesses because

(28:49):
I'm known in many circles to justhave a lot going on anyways, which
is definitely part of AHD. Yeah, It's contributed a lot to that,
where it's just not knowing how muchtime you have and committing to different things
where you just can't. And itwas definitely a point where it's like,

(29:15):
Okay, there's a breaking point andI need to get some answers. And
it was probably over the course oftwo three months, And I think what
year was that where you really startedand do you do you remember me bringing
it up first or did you,like, how did I'm just curious how

(29:36):
did we get because we were goingthrough this at the same time, but
in totally different Yeah, we werecountries, different countries, different paces,
and I think different realizations where minewas quick fast, and I would say
rapid to a point where it happenedreally quick. I'm obviously grateful for that

(30:03):
and obviously compared to our different diagnosis, great privilege for that. But yeah,
it was definitely January twenty twenty twoor the winter of twenty twenty two,
and it was definitely I definitely thinkthrough lockdowns. I definitely felt it

(30:25):
or felt something building and it justnever went away. And that's where I
started really questioning and thinking, Okay, so I don't know what this is.
And I was really concerned because Ididn't know where to start with something

(30:45):
like this, either because I hadno knowledge or familiarity with what being neurodivergent
was or is, and I didn'thave something just to go, oh yeah,
so, and I've never really experiencedan open dialogue with many people other
than you where that was really talkedabout. So was probably through those couple

(31:08):
of months February March, I thinkI made an appointment, started trying to
get answers. I'm definitely someone whodoes a lot independently, so that's where
I started, Okay, do someresearch, looking at resources, and I
would say that there's definitely internet videosthat educated me, but I didn't.

(31:32):
I'm definitely that person who, beforemaking a decision or a judgment, will
do heavy, heavy research. Andthere's a lot of creators who made a
lot of content that I identified with, and I think that's a big thing
online and through our conversation about neurodivergentpeople having a moment or starting to really

(31:55):
get identified, especially into adulthood.It's just being able to identify with a
similar life experience or stuff that youjust go through that others go through too,
And I started to really identify withthat, and obviously operating at such
a certain level for so long definitelytook its toll, and it was definitely

(32:22):
weighing heavy. And I think thiswas, like you said, a relief.
To finally land on something that Iidentified with, it made sense to
me. I think I was stillquestioning if this was real in a way,
just because it just happened for me. It just happened so quickly,

(32:45):
or it just came on so quickly. Yeah, and you'd never previously been
diagnosed with any kind of mental healthno, no before, right, like,
because I'd been in that space,and I think that's why it was
so much easier for me to kindof be like, all right, this
is probably what's happening. I needto go talk to a psychiatrist. Yeah,

(33:07):
And I've never had experiences with therapyor mental health professionals until that point,
where I didn't have maybe the vocabularyto describe what I'm feeling or experiences
or challenges that I have in itjust every day kind of thing. So

(33:27):
I think it was maybe a sixweek period where I saw a GP,
and then I also went private,not because I just didn't know how to
bring it up either, because Ithink growing up as millennials, you do
have some sort of stigma attached tothat, whether legitimate or not, which

(33:51):
it isn't, you still kind offeel that. And I also wasn't sure.
If I wasn't, I don't wantto be an impostor about it either.
That was a big thing for me. That was a thing for me
as well. And I think thatpart of that was that it was popping
off on TikTok, and I waslike, if I come out telling people
this now, yeah, there isgoing to be that reaction of like,

(34:14):
well, are you just joining iton some sort of trend. Yeah,
And that was a big fear becauseI do think in some ways that is
kind of a detractor. I thinkit's probably contributed to me being quiet online
or in my personal life talking aboutit or my public life, and yeah,

(34:37):
it's just having enough time to sitwith it and digest it. And
going through that diagnosis process for mewas really quick. I would private and
then so I got pretty much diagnosedtwice privately and then by my GP,
and yeah, obviously both concluded thata diagnosis was fit for ADHD and that

(35:00):
was six weeks and private, whichis interesting. It was very quick,
and it was so quick that ittook it was almost I had to really
catch up of what was transpiring processingthat, and I think it took me
a good six months to really begood with it. I think you were

(35:24):
definitely one of the first I told, if not the first, because I
was definitely sharing with you that Iwas exploring this, and then you shared
with me that that was also something. Yeah, I'm sure i'd been updating
you on my like I'd been onthe waiting list for so long by that
point. Yeah, And and forme that was definitely comforting to kind of

(35:46):
know that someone I know so wellcould understand what I was going through.
M it is I think you andI have gone through. We're very different.
We are very different in a lotof ways. And I think from
the outside, people like even ifI think back to college, I think

(36:07):
a lot of people couldn't understand ourfriendship very well. And I think I
think a lot of points we didn'tunderstand it either. Yeah, that's and
I think, yeah, that isa big like it was a big thing
for us. I think a lotof people would look at us and say,
from the outside, we are theopposite. You. You present very

(36:28):
well, you have it together likeyou are Yeah, you're you're quieter like
I have always been messy publicly.I think that's been my like brand forever.
Is kind of like public breakdown andyou are like pretty much the opposite.
So it's funny that, knowing youas well as I do, we

(36:51):
really have gone through the pretty muchthe same things at the same time for
most of our friendship, Like evenin college when we were presenting very differently,
I think we were both kind ofat a breaking point when you reach
your limit and are fully overstimulated.And I've seen it like a million times
prediagnosis obviously when I lived in Canada, like especially when we worked in that

(37:13):
office together, which just to likeput that in the podcast. I did
work for Garrett for a very shortperiod of time, and I don't know
if I count it as work.I put it on my resume because it
looks good and Garrett would be areference if I needed to apply for a

(37:34):
job. But I think, yeah, like when when you would reach that
like burnout point, I just remember, always always tell you you've got to
go to therapy. You have togo to therapy, because I've been in
therapy forever because I again it camefrom a very mentally ill family and like
I knew from an early age,my first job that I ever got was

(37:54):
to pay for therapy. So yeah, like I've I was always like,
you've got to go to therapy.So it is funny now looking at where
you are now, like you you'reso much more in touch with that side
of yourself. You used to havesuch a hard time telling me how you
feel, even as your best friend, Like you would have such a hard

(38:16):
time communicating that, whereas I would, I've always been pretty good at saying
how I feel. That's definitely somethingto you. Particularly, You're very different
where I think maybe it is becauseof therapy or just what your experience with
mental health is. Is you knewhow to describe it or at least vocalize

(38:37):
it, and I've it's never donethat. That was that's very foreign to
Yeah, And I think I diduse you as a therapist for like most
of my college I had a therapist. And it's funny too, because do
you remember my therapist in college andpost college, Like she knew your name,
you were like the household name,and my therapy was like, oh,

(38:59):
well tell Garrett this or like ohGarrett did this, and like she
knew everything about you. And soI feel like I talked more about your
feelings to my therapist than you evertalked to anyone about your own feelings.
It was like her group projects incollege. But yeah, I did the

(39:19):
therapy for both of us. Yeah, yeah, I think it's It's definitely
helped obviously identify and becoming a lotmore self aware because I was so certain
that I was self aware at thattime, like I truly believed it,
And it's it's really funny and alsokind of heartbreaking of how unaware and how

(39:51):
wrong I was, because I thinkbecause I could, I was always a
person who would give advice to friendsand listen. Yeah, example a being
me being the therapist in a lotof different ways, but I couldn't do
it for myself. I didn't knowthat I was so so out of touch.

(40:15):
Yeah, I think, I mean, even for me, I was.
I've been self aware to a faultfor my entire life. I'm very
aware of everything all the time,and so like everything going on with me
and my emotions, and I canvery easily put those into words. But

(40:35):
that's not always a good thing,because being self aware is like, great,
I know I am struggling in XY Z way and I can explain
it perfectly, but I'm not goingto fix it, and I don't know
how to fix it. And that'slike I think where I was operating before
this diagnosis, and obviously I'm stillstruggling with that different stuff because I've got
like a plethora of it's not justADHD for me. I think back then

(41:00):
I was like, I know everythingthat's going on with me. But it's
funny because I actually didn't do youknow what I mean, Like I was
operating from that space of like Iknow so much about mental health. I
am very woke and self aware andlike in tune with my emotions. I
mean, I was a yoga teacherfor a while. Like I've been self
aware and been aware of like medicaland more Eastern practices for treating mental illness.

(41:27):
I thought I knew it. ThenI thought I knew everything, and
so looking back, it's like Iactually didn't know anything. And that's probably
why I was as difficult in collegeas I was. U is probably the
word for it, because I thinkI was just operating from a place of
like, oh, yeah, I'vealready figured everything out. I figured everything
out when I was like fourteen,and now I can kind of be more
like, Okay, I actually don'thave all of the answers and I'm still

(41:51):
like learning a lot in therapy aboutmyself, whereas back then I think I
was kind of shut off to anynew information. I was like, no,
I've got it figured out. I'vegot to figure out and somewhat under
control whatever that means. Yeah,as if I thought I was under control,
then it's shocking. Yeah. AndI think we both have different definitions

(42:14):
of what control is and different experiencesof what we think is control. And
I think that's definitely changed a lotpost diagnosis, where I think it's definitely
the language, the knowledge and knowingwhat in a daily life is a challenge,

(42:37):
a struggle or can be identified with, Oh, yeah, that is,
you know, my neurodivergence or myADHD at work kind of thing.
Can you talk briefly about your experiencelike working like me as an employee,
yeah, or conceptually like a partnerin business if we're not the same ployee,

(43:00):
Yeah, I would say, becausewe are very different people. I
think the dynamic between us as friendsbut as colleagues is also very interesting where
we operate at different speeds. Wedefinitely do where I think I definitely want

(43:27):
things done last week, and it'sdefinitely do it my way kind of thing.
And yeah, I and it's probablybecause of our college relationship too as
peers and classmates, where if itwasn't to my standard, then I'd be

(43:47):
very critical about it. And Ithink because we are so close, I
also probably had way too much runwaywith you in a way where I could
be very expressive at times. Yeah, where, Yeah, I think it

(44:08):
could work now now being now thatwe know now that we know ourselves and
I'm on vibeance, know our brainsand know what works for us and know
how we could potentially compliment our skillsets, it could be better. Yeah.
Well, and that's the thing Ithink at the time, and I

(44:29):
don't have bad memories of like thatperiod of period of time at all.
I think that was like, honestlyone of the better periods of my life
because I had two jobs at thetime that I liked a lot, and
one of them was that job withyou at your office. But I think
looking back, like I had alot of like probably unreasonable and high expectations

(44:53):
of you as an employer as myboss, because you're also my best friend,
and you probably had unreasonable expectations ofme as your helping hand employee.
Yeah, and we do. Wedon't like conflict. That's one thing about
the two of us, and Ithink we have never argued in a serious

(45:17):
in a serious way, I think, no, not in a way where
because I don't think either of uswill let it get that to that point
either. No, But I rememberthat you had opinions on like a lot
of the things that I do,especially in the work that we were doing.
We were doing website design, andwe're both creative people in different ways,

(45:39):
and so I had my creative ideasand you had your creative ideas,
and it is your business, soit's fair that your ideas would win every
time. But also I don't takecriticism well at all, which is another
thing with ADHD which we learn now, is that I have a very poor

(46:00):
receptor for like any kind of criticism, even if it is kind criticism and
like valid and constructive, I willjust shut down and be like, well
you hate me, which I thinkwas the big response to working in that
particular job. And as you saythat, I admittedly don't take criticism that

(46:21):
well either. Yeah. So Ithink when you put two people into a
room who both can't take criticism butboth have opinions and ways of doing things.
It's not going to work without anopen dialogue, and there just was
no dialogue. There was just notin that way. That way no,

(46:43):
Like we could definitely have an opendialogue about each other, but not professionally
where I Thineah, whether we didintentionally or not, we definitely put up
not even boundaries, but like we'veseparated those things veryly where oh yeah,
we won't talk about anything work wise. Yeah, it is funny because everything

(47:07):
in my personal life, you knoweverything about me, Like in college you
saw the worst you like post college, you've seen a range of my experiences,
and I think I know pretty mucheverything about you, Like I think
we know each other probably better thananyone else knows me, other than like
maybe my partner or my sister.But like I think, out of my

(47:31):
friends, I've probably shown you allthe sides of me. And so it's
funny that personal life totally nothing wasoff the table. Like I would say
literally anything to you, no matterhow crazy it sounded, and I think
it was pretty much the same withme. You obviously held back a lot
more because you didn't have the wordsfor it, but then professionally it was

(47:52):
like, well, I'm just notgonna say anything. I'm just not gonna
I'm not gonna argue. I'm justnot gonna confront this. And now that
you say that, I remember soclearly now some memories of just like there
would be times where you just don'tsay anything where we'd be working on something
and i'd see you just I couldsee physically just the restraint or you just

(48:16):
holding up back. Okay, she'sdone. Yeah, And it's not that
you would really say anything to meeither. That's the thing, Like when
I say you criticized me, itwas very subtle in the way of like
I think I have specific memories oflike doing say you designed me to work
on like a page on a website, and you're like, do this page,

(48:38):
And then the next day I'd comein and I'd look at the website
and you'd redone everything I had done, which is totally like a habit that
you had in college as well withall of our assignments. So it was
really like subtle, like Okay,clearly he didn't like what I did there,
and we're just not going to talkabout it, no, And I
think, yeah, it's not beingaware of how that looked at the time

(49:02):
or at all, and and probablyjust maintaining what we did back in the
day in school. M m yeah, because it kind of was a similar
dynamic of I want to make sureI get a good mark, but it's
it's just letting go of control.Yeah, And it's not control in a

(49:23):
controlling way. It's making sure thatI can reduce variables or whatever or at
least have Yeah, something I thinkit's worth touching on, like business and
ADHD, like is so if youown a business, if you own more
than one business, odds are maybego get yourself assessed. And that's I

(49:45):
know that's like me being so generalized, but there have been times, Garrett,
where you have literally in the samehour started three new businesses, and
like I would watch it happen,and I am so I mean, I
deal with my my ADHD presents sodifferently to you, especially because I'm a

(50:07):
woman and you're not. And I'mso like I am the unmotivated type of
ADHD. You are like the opposite. I will just shut down and do
absolutely nothing, whereas you will doliterally everything all at once. I particularly
remember, like time sitting on thosecouches in that office and you've got your
white board out and you are like, you know, the like like the
people with the red strings, likeyou know what I mean, solving the

(50:30):
case. But it was you withthat fucking whiteboard writing down like oh what,
I can't even think of a particularThere was some sort of like delivery
business happening at one point, Idon't know, and then like it morphed
into like well, now I'm startinga YouTube channel and doing a new podcast,
and to tie everything together, I'mgoing to start I don't I don't

(50:51):
even remember it. Just remember likeeight hundred ideas at once and me just
not knowing, me trying to bringyou down to earth without and I don't
like confrontation, so I'd be like, okay, well maybe we should focus
on this one. It was themost yeah, and not knowing how to
confirm the most you could do.It's like the especially because I get I

(51:15):
get so easily overwhelmed. So you'dget to like halfway through the first idea
and I would just stop listening.The amount of times you've probably like sat
with that goddamn whiteboard and I've justlike literally had no thoughts, not a
single thought at all, because that'slike what I revert to when I am
overwhelm, which is probably why Igot so indifferent meditation and stuff. It's

(51:37):
like, I literally will shut downall executive functions done. I cannot listen
to you. And so it's likewhen someone's trying to explain a card game
to you and you like panic.That was me when you would have these
like eight hundred business ideas and Idon't even think you wanted my opinion.
I think you just wanted to sayit out loud, I had a captive

(51:58):
audience or or just someone there,because yeah, I definitely did, and
that was definitely should have been ared flag. Not red flag in a
negative way. But come on,yeah, well, and that's the thing.
Is it not a bad No,it's not a bad symptom. It's

(52:19):
honestly, you're very creative and you'revery like because you do follow through with
like a lot of your ideas.That's a I have ideas, but then
I go nowhere with them because againI shut down, I stop functioning completely.
So it's not like you have abad symptom in that way. That
is actually probably a really good thing, and it's gotten to you to where

(52:40):
you are now. Absolutely, Butit is funny that we just didn't.
Neither of us stopped and thought,hey, is this normal? Is this
a way that like neurotypical people shouldfunction in the world. No, yeah,
it's so clear now. It's likedude had a lot of ideas all

(53:01):
at once, and I did,and I still do. I think I
probably tell you at least once everycouple of weeks, once a month about
something that I could do. Butnow post diagnosis, I've definitely know like,
okay, like pump the brakes.You're traveling so fast and you haven't

(53:23):
remembered about what you're doing right now, which is has been such a challenge
and such a hard thing to keepdoing or keep with the same thing.
I think that's been one of mybiggest struggles and challenges stick with a task,

(53:45):
is just staying with one thing oridea of business, Because you're right,
I've had multiple multiple ventures in thelast ten years. It's it's not
even over a lifetime, it's fairlyrecent. And yeah, I just had
no idea of the I guess theconsequences of like, oh, this will

(54:08):
require this much time, this willeffort planning, Oh did you remember the
thing you came up with last week. That's also something. Yeah, I've
got all the user names for thedomains, you created a logo, and
now it's just that was the thingyou would go in, you would invest,
I'd go in hard, I would. I would in a lot of

(54:31):
things. It'd be like, Okay, this is the business that's gonna like
tick off. It's a great andyeah, this is the one and objectively
some of them could be some ofthem have the potential to be. Well,
that's where if you think about it, like Eatium weekly, that's like
that was a probably a chaotic ADHDdecision to start stroke, like the company

(54:57):
that we worked together at like thatwas. It's definitely a chaotic ADHD idea.
But it's worked out. It's workedout. You're here now. But
I will say that it's worked outbecause I've stuck with it. That's definitely
been yes, And it's worked becauseI've just magically stayed with it for the
last five seven years. And hmm, yeah, thankful that I have.

(55:23):
The best way to describe are ourtypes of ADHD are like spectrums of neurodivergency.
Is you over commit yourself. Youhave these high expectations of yourself where
you're like, I can do anything, and that's good. And it's not
like you're blindly confident. You actuallyhave the skills and the experience to do

(55:45):
a lot of the things that youcome up with, but you do over
commit. You have a million differentthings that you expect yourself to be able
to do all at once because youget into this like really hyper focused superpower
mode where I have pretty much theopposite And it's funny because it's the same
mental illness, but it presents sodifferently, Like I under commit at a

(56:07):
high degree. I have the bareminimum expectations of myself. I wake up
in the morning, I'm like,okay, I have to shower, yeah,
and maybe do one other thing.If I have an appointment at five
pm, I probably can't do anythingother than that appointment. Where and I
have the same amount of ideas incoming, but I have the opposite reaction where

(56:30):
I'm like, well, I can'teven remember to eat, so I'm probably
not going to commit myself to anythingthat's difficult, which is also not a
good thing. Yeah, in alot of ways, it can be good
in some ways. Probably I've burntout a lot less than you have.
Oh for sure, I've definitely beenable to like manage my expectations of myself

(56:54):
a lot better probably than you have. But at the same time, that's
not necessarily a good thing, becauseunder committing to life is pretty sad,
and going into life with the bareminimum expectations of yourself is not great.
And obviously it's gotten better since I'vebeen on medication and I realized, like,
oh, I actually can do morethan one thing, and one day

(57:14):
if I like take this medication,that helps me function. But yea,
it is just there's big pros andcons of both sides of the coin.
And it is funny that as bestfriends who came into this friendship prior to
being self aware about that kind ofthing, like how we can get along

(57:37):
so well when we present so verydifferently, And it might be because it
works because of that we offset eachother for sure, I don't know,
because if I was coming up withthe same amount of ideas as you,
then we'd be competitors in business.I also think, whereas like you are
never going to compete with me,no, But I also think think that

(58:00):
would just fuel me more if you'rejust adding adding fuel to the fire of
just like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because
that is the thing you need me. You need me to stop you and
say, hey, Garrett, isthis too much? Do you think you
really can map out the time forthis without burning out? And I need

(58:24):
you to be like, do something, do literally anything, have a task
today. I'm pushing you and you'reholding You're restraining me. I'm holding you
down a grounding way grounding. Yes, yeah, I am. I am
the gravity of this, this relationshipwhere you were very much like they I

(58:51):
don't know what, I don't knowwhat word I'm looking for of completely just
like a motivator, but also theenergy I guess now that we're a few
years into it or have some livedexperience knowing that we have ADHD, what
are some things you've done to helpyou and make some of your challenges easier

(59:15):
or what are some tips and tricksthat have worked for you? Yeah,
tips, tips and tricks that haveworked for me. This is the thing
about again, are our styles ofdealing with are like the way our mental
illness presents you. Definitely, whenyou got that diagnosis, like went in

(59:36):
on like reading about it and educatingyourself on it. And I have definitely
done the same I've read a fewof the resources that you've given me.
I've like barely listened to any ofthe podcasts that you've sent me about it.
But again, I just like shutdown so I don't try, Like
I get overwhelmed by the information veryquickly. Ah, And I love just
living in a state of delusion whereit's like I don't actually even try to

(01:00:00):
do anything to fix it, andthen I complain that I haven't fixed it,
so I think I which again isvery different in the way that we've
dealt with this. I have definitelygone the medication route. By the time
I got to the diagnosis, becauseit took so so long, I was
desperate. Like by the time theygave me that diagnosis, I was like,

(01:00:20):
I need to be medicated because thisis not working. I've been working
at an office job but that I'mstill working at for a year at least
a year at the time, andit was my first real serious office job
and very corporate. So I wasjust at like the actual end of like
my ability to function unmedicated. AndI was very aware of that, and

(01:00:44):
so immediately upon diagnosis, I startedtaking viobance, which is a medication.
I'm still on because it's worked outquite well. Obviously I've had to play
around with the dosage, but Idon't think that's a solution for everything everyone,
And I think there are a lotof side effects to ADHD medication,
and it is like it's a controlledsubstance. In this country that I live
in, I need a permit todrive. But it doesn't affect me the

(01:01:08):
way it would affect a normal personbecause I've got a different brain than other
people, so what the drug doesto me wouldn't be the same as if,
say, my partner, who isso neurotypical, if he took a
vibance at the dosage that I'm on, he would be partying, he would
be he would be uplate organizing acupboard or something, Whereas like, yeah,

(01:01:30):
for me, it just makes everythingso much more quiet. That was
the immediate thing for me that Inoticed was just the quiet, and I
was shocked at, Like I literallywent to my partner was like, is
this what it's like for you allthe time? Like you don't have this
weird internal constant monologue going on andlike a million different thoughts at once,

(01:01:53):
And he's like, Yeah, that'sjust how my brain works. I don't
have to be thinking all the time, and I was shocked. So the
quietness was the first thing I noticed, and I loved it. And yeah,
obviously, just the ability to focuswhen on this medication is insane compared
to when I'm off it, andit's very evident when it wears off in

(01:02:14):
the evening, because I also,all of a sudden, it's like six
PM and I'm standing over Ryan tellinghim like a really long story that has
no point, and I get sidetrackedeighteen different times, and so he like
knows the schedule of my medication basedon like when's she going to start telling
me like a really really confusing story. So I definitely went the medication,

(01:02:37):
wrote right away, and I haveonly recently re started like doing therapy.
I didn't money wise. I couldn'tafford therapy for quite a while moving to
a new country and like trying toget my residency is expensive, and I
bought a house and Australia is justexpensive, so I didn't have money for

(01:02:59):
a while to do the other aspectsof like treating ADHD that weren't medication.
So I really just went a wholehog on medication and it helped a lot.
But I think after a few monthsof that, I kind of realized,
oh wait, that's not like,that's not fixing everything. I still
have to try, which I thinkis again I don't like trying things.

(01:03:21):
I don't like putting in any effortat all, So realizing that I had
to take medication, but I alsohave to put in some effort to like
manage this. It is a it'sdisabling, it's a disability. In a
lot of ways. It can bea great thing to some people, but
for me, the way mine presentsit is a disability. It's it's it

(01:03:43):
hinders my ability to do nearly anything. So I think realizing and that was
partially from you, because you've notrelied as heavily on medication for sure compared
to me, and you have readthe books and you've actually like learned the
coping mechanisms that I refuse to absorband learn. So I think it was
only more recently, like this year, that I realized, like, medication

(01:04:06):
can't be it. And I knowthat's obvious, but I don't think it
is. If anyone's listening, whoyeah, because it really like I've been
on antidepressants my entire life and thatreally, Like to me, that was
obvious. It was like, I, that's not going to cover everything.
I'm also going to need to goto therapy because I have depression. But

(01:04:27):
for some reason with ADHD, Ithought, you know, you see all
these little boys taking riddle in likeor adderall, and they're immediately high functioning,
and like you think about college kidswho take adderall to like get shit
done, and again that's because they'reneurotypical and they're taking it and it's giving
them a superpowered whereas when I takeit, it just makes me like a

(01:04:48):
little bit more functional. And Ithink that was almost disappointing. Well,
the was that I didn't get thatlike superpower high from my live dance that
I thought that that's always seen inthe media. Yeah, and it depicted
in film and TV. The bestdescription I've heard is that just levels the

(01:05:09):
playing field for us. It justbrings us to where nerve tipples are all
the time exactly, which kind ofdisappointed me because I don't know why I
thought it was just going to bethe solution. But I think that's worth
saying, like on a public space, like whatever this podcast is or whoever
listens to this, like it's itis disappointing that you can't just take a

(01:05:31):
pill and it fixes everything. It'llfix a lot, but like you actually
have to do the work. SoI'd be more interested in hearing what your
non medication based tips and tricks.Yeah, I will say that you bring
up a good point because I thinkit took me so long to come to
terms with because as it is classifiedas a neurodevelopmental disorder, where it's a

(01:05:59):
life long thing, it's just howyour life is, it's how your brain
is, and it's just what you'vebeen given more or less. Where it's
not a quick fix, which obviouslyan ADHD would love a quick fix.
It's like, oh, yeah,that's the thing. You can't just like

(01:06:20):
self motivate yourself out of it.And I think that's kind of an upsetting
realization too for people. It's likeyou're not going to get You're going to
be like this forever. Yeah,And it is a really especially for me,
it was a really lifebul tring diagnosis. My life has changed so much

(01:06:42):
from being diagnosed and understanding what ADHDis and being neurodiversent. I've definitely again
watch a lot of different content onYouTube TikTok. Definitely understand who who you're
getting information from, especially when itis kind of the the big old goal

(01:07:06):
when it comes to yeah, liketrying to get it from a professional,
like with a doctor. Yeah,considering who you're getting your information from,
especially if you are exploring ADHD orconsidering it. Don't look at sources that
aren't credible because it's kind of mightbe misinformation. And obviously we're sharing based

(01:07:30):
on our experiences, so we're definitelynot a source. Yeah, I'm sure
you'll put a disclaimer before that.We don't know. I heard the disclaimer
off the top. There's lots ofbooks on it. There's lots of great
books audio books. Obviously I preferthe audiobook route as I'm not a good
reader when it comes to anything,even if it's stuff that I do enjoy.

(01:07:53):
Audible is fantastic source or resource forstuff like this. Yeah, a
lot of great content out there.There's a lot of great podcast that I
have. ADHD podcast is a fantasticone. There's lots of especially conversations like
we've had lately have been kind oftopics on the podcast with similar experiences,

(01:08:15):
and Yeah, it's it's very consistentwith others that do have ADHD. Another,
do you have a book that youwould recommend like anyone if say,
say you just got diagnosed or likeyou're thinking that this might fit with you,
let me open up Audible and Ican tell you yeah, because there
is a good one that I've scatteredminds by gabb Or may t is a

(01:08:42):
good one, UHHD. And thenif you're more a video person, how
to ADHD on YouTube is amazing,lots of great content there, and of
course there's yeah, it's the Internet, so there's lots of other creators and
people who do have ADHD are creatingbased on their experiences, and that's I
think where TikTok can be a goodway to find communities but also understand the

(01:09:09):
ADHD experience because that's kind of howI consume that kind of content. I
think a big thing with with theTikTok content is like, no, we're
not looking for like science from TikTok. I want someone to relate to,
like, yeah, I think that'sso important to be like wait a minute,
I thought that that was just myshitty personality, but these people are

(01:09:30):
telling me that they also experience that, So I think that's a big thing,
like and having friends who have ADTlike having you or whatever, like
talking to people with the same experience, even though it's not giving you any
practical, real coping mechanisms, it'sjust knowing that it's not it's not just
in your head and you're not justlike poorly functioning for no reason. I

(01:09:50):
think having that like representation maybe isa big thing. I think to specifically
for women. A lot of theADHD content on the internet I particularly avoid
because I don't want to hear aman's perspective because it presents so differently,
And a lot of those books arewritten by men, and like a lot

(01:10:14):
of those podcasts and those YouTube channelsare for men, and like, sure
that can be helpful in some ways, but just based on like you and
I having conversations, it presents verydifferently, and the things that work for
men don't work for women. Andthe idea of getting diagnosed is so much
easier for men than it is forwomen. So I think I have ADHD
podcasts that's women, right, Yeah, honestly, like the you've sent that

(01:10:36):
to me recently and that was yeah, and she does a fantastic job of
really putting it in a way thatis not Yeah, I would say more
empowering and more educational, but ina way where it's very relatable. Obviously
if you have ADHD yea yeah,I would say that I consume more content

(01:11:00):
from female ADHD creators than male Ithink it. Yeah, I don't think
it's intentional, but obviously you alsowant to identify with the creator, whether
that's a characteristic something you share orsomething like that. Atlie Myers another Yeah,
great creator who doesn't specialize in ADHD, but she has ADHD. It's

(01:11:23):
not her content, but so there'slots of great resources. I think that's
just a great conversation to publicly talkabout it in a way where it was
an open discussion and obviously a safespace to have that first conversation. Yeah.

(01:11:44):
Yeah, I it'd something that I'vewanted to do for a long time.
I think I've definitely shared that withyou. We've definitely tried to do
a podcast for a while, butI think this was a good start and
happy we record this episode together andfinally finally talking about what it's like with
ADHD. Yeah. Yes, aspeople have seen each other definitely on both

(01:12:09):
sides of undiagnosed and diagnosed. Yes, it's good to talk about it.
It's good to like especially because youhave a bit. You don't have a
huge platform, but you have aplatform, and it's worth putting it out
there. I think for even ifonly a few people listen to this,
and you listen to this and you'relike, oh wait, maybe like just
that the the letting go of thatshame about it, it is important.

(01:12:32):
So even if one person listens tothis and is like, hey, I
always thought I was just a pieceof shit, but maybe I have adhd
that that would be the goal.I guess, yeah, it's talking about
it because I think moving forward,it's I think our way forward collectively is
just talking about things, talking aboutthings that we're vulnerable with or feel vulnerable

(01:12:59):
sharing, and especially with something likea neural developmental disorder, you have to
find people that also kind of shareexperiences with you, because I think it
definitely is so much more helpful thatI think we had this experience together then

(01:13:24):
separately, because I think it doesfeel really really isolating at the moment,
and I think leading up to it, because when it's something so specific like
this, it's hard to relate andI think due to a lot of individuals,
and I'll put myself in that category. Prior to diagnosis, not knowing

(01:13:47):
or understanding what ADHD is, it'shard to talk about it with people because
they just don't know anything yet.So yeah, I think that's a huge
thing too. I think in termsof tips, that would be my biggest
tip is, even though you don'treally want to tell people, tell people
who are in your life, likewho are involved in your life what you

(01:14:10):
have, Like say I got diagnosedwith ADHD. Please read this like web
MD article on what this is becausejust having people in my life no not
I mean because everything it's not likeone size fits all, but like having
say my partner him having that resourceof being like my partner might be acting

(01:14:31):
this way because she has ADHD,And just him knowing that makes me feel
so much better and so much lessanxious about the way that I behave Yeah,
because I know that he has likea baseline education of like what I'm
going through. If you're in aspace where you feel like you can tell
people around you, it's giving thepeople around you opportunities to manage their expectations

(01:14:57):
of you appropriately. Yeah, Becauseand it takes a lot of that weight
off of you having to like maskit all the time, Like you can
be yourself openly and know that peoplewill at least have a baseline understanding,
like why you're behaving the way thatyou behave Yeah, because I think definitely

(01:15:17):
we share this, so it mightbe a neurodiversient thing to just over explain
or want to be understood kind ofthing. Yes, desperate to be understood.
I think when you are sharing withpeople, if you choose to,
don't feel like you need to knoweverything. Because definitely my diagnosis and my

(01:15:44):
journey with it, I didn't knoweverything and I kind of felt responsible initially
to kind of know everything. I'mglad that I know it well now,
but don't feel the pressure. It'snot it's such a big thing to to
share it with someone. Well,it's not your responsibility to teach someone about
it. You can tell them whatyou're going through, but it's their responsibility

(01:16:06):
if they're going to be in yourlife and they want to be supportive for
you, it's their responsibility to googleit, don't ask me questions. And
this is a big thing, likeI mean that stretches across like all walks
of life, Like if you wantto be an ally to like the lgbt
Q community. Don't go to yourgay friends and ask them a million questions

(01:16:29):
about their experience unless I mean,like, unless they bring it up and
they want to talk about it.Google it, everything's on the internet.
Don't make it their responsibility to explainlike what they're going through. And that
is a big thing with mental illness, is like I don't want to sit
there and tell my partner every symptomof ADHD. I need him on his
own time because he cares about meand wants to like support me, to

(01:16:53):
go and look into it and learnhimself, like learn on his own about
what I'm going through and then takethat into our relationship and just have a
better understanding. And it's not anyone'sresponsibility to explain what they're going through to
you unless they want to. Yeah, But also telling people, like just

(01:17:14):
telling people that you have it isI think important in a lot of ways.
If you feel safe and comfortable afterthat, it's definitely a thing where
you should feel safe or even ifyou get a poor reaction, not everyone's
gonna understand it, and I thinkit's unreasonable for it. But that's also
like think that if you get apoor reaction. I mean I've always thought

(01:17:40):
this way of like if I saysomething super unhinged and like I mean you
know what I mean. I'm constantlylike testing you and the other friends,
like if they react poorly to this, maybe that's a sign, Like maybe
that's good. I now know thatthey're not the person I can talk to
about these kind of things. Andnow I'm learning like a cat that my

(01:18:00):
toolkit of like, oh hey,this person not going to talk to them
about my things that I'm going through. So those reactions are actually good tools.
I think in a lot of ways. That's a great point. Yeah,
I don't know, does that makessense? Does make sense? I
think that's a great spot to endit. Thanks for joining me for this
conversation. We stood it again.Maybe not that's all out ADHD kind of

(01:18:27):
conversation, but yeah, I uhupbeat fun chat about something else. Yeah,
we can tell we can have likea story time or something about things
that we've done. Because we didn'tget into any specific series, we have
lots of stories. Thanks for havingme on. Sorry that you're going to

(01:18:50):
have to spend the rest of yourlife editing this podcast. This is really
long, and I don't know,maybe it'll have to go to two parts.
I don't know that I thought aboutthat. But I also know what
I signed up for when I askedyou ADHD people to talk about ADHD on
the podcasts, So I know whatI signed up for. Yeah, this

(01:19:10):
is great. So yeah, sothanks for listening. And I mean,
next week I bring me against him. M m m hm h