Does Star Wars Have More Wins Or Losses In The Disney Era : Cantina Conversations : GV 10 Year

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yeah, come on, you know, ladies belly like, Hello, ladies
and gentlemen, welcome back to Cantina Conversations. I am the

(00:35):
number one Kylo Ren fanboy dressed now and I'm joined by.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm the desk stick Taylor Field.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yes, ladies, gentlemen, it has been a long time. Matter
of fact, it has been six years, Taylor. It isn't
six years now. Granted, we did kind of do like
a mini comeback for the when we did the Rebels retrospective.
We did that in part, so that was like a
canteen of conversations, but we've never done on proper, uh
since twenty nineteen. It was technically I got it right here.

(01:03):
It was it was April. It was no, Oh my god,
that's crazy. August twenty ninth, twenty nineteen was our last one.
Let's see. Our last episode was Oh we want Disney
plus dues and don't. So it must have been right
after Oh we Want had been announced and whatnot. But
if people don't know, because I was looking up because

(01:23):
I try to go and get you know, thumbnails and whatnot,
or like logos from our old shows, because lots of
our old shows. Now you and I we've been through
three computers, three laptops. Lots of stuff's going on. Taylor
do some promotion while we let this plane pass, because
I am doing a patiopod right now.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
So yeah, so promotions. Well, the big Gvday, Geez Gvday,
August ninth, that's around the corner, starting at ten am,
going for ten hours or longer, depending on you know,
how how we go with patrons and all that. But yeah,
we got a whole whack load of stuff lined up.
We got gb Triviam, We've got two two thousand and sorry,

(02:01):
nineteen ninety four Golden Geeks, not twenty twelve, that was
another event, and just a whole bunch of other things
is gonna be popping off, like might be getting our
while we are getting our hands dirty. Me and Travis
gonna be going toe to toe with Kirkland and Kyle.
So that's gonna be pretty intense and pretty robust. What
else do we get going on? Just lots of stuff,
lots of stuff. Check our social media channels, you get

(02:23):
all the information. And aside from that, we got a
Dexter review that'll be dropping episode five, the Spoilers review.
That's every Friday. We're popping off on the Dexter reviews,
we got Alien already trun around.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
All right, dropped? Did you not see my private chat
that I put in there?

Speaker 2 (02:40):
I'll be back in twenty minutes.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Fear from the audio listeners what I did because I
let the playing crises and then are across and then
I put in the priet chat be back in twenty
minutes and got in my seat tators in promotion mode.
So you didn't see it. But I was hoping to
be like twenty minutes. What the fuck am I supposed
to do all alone? So let's see chi Rana says, Hey, guys,
hope all's well. I'd love I don't really repeat to
be a return. Just listen to man crush the episode

(03:03):
and a couple other episodes. Wow on the Stars episode,
Charlie Rendell, Yeah, yeah, Liam, No, we did. We did
the one a couple of weeks ago, which was it
is in the feeds. It's a dynamic dual slash rant
rave repeat one. We only had enough time to record, like,
we just kind of put them together because lots of
the episode is about our life and the lots of

(03:23):
his cook stuff. We only had time to do one
because Liam was only in town for like four or
five days, and we we Obviously I han't seen Liham
in many years, so we hung out in person. As
before I knew Kyle was my attacker, I would never
had him over, so try you can check out that. Unfortunately,
my audio was not the best because it was a
patio pop, but it was it was no fault to
Taylor's Taylor like I thought he had more chords than

(03:46):
he did. It was one of Kirklands that we had. Kirkland. Yeah,
Kirklands were and everything. The attacks. Like you said, we
got the wrestling match coming up. You're talking about dexst
episode five. This is coming out a couple of days
after that. So recording live on YouTube right now. But
then I'll go unlisted and then you get it early
on patroon. But yeah, it is there, so you listen
to it. I tested audio much as I could. The
problem was Taylor. I had to use this mic and

(04:08):
then I also had to use the other mic, so
sometimes you could hear like there's a slight echo because
it was like it was on different channels. I called
in differently, so it's like you would have been the
patio and then I was the laptop on the patio
of the side, so instead of being one stream, it
was Yeah, so unfortunately that sucked that. Like, it's still
a fun episode and people have been very kind on it.

(04:30):
But yeah, you can go back and check that out. Yeah,
we've brought back a bunch of shows. I think this
is gonna be. This and hunka Hunk are gonna be
the last shows. You know, my brother and his friend
of record episode, but these will be the last episodes
released before, like Tara said, August ninth, seven, events going
at least ten hours, maybe more if you want to
support us and you know, pump up more of our
content for next year. So we got that going on.

(04:51):
It's a friendly face from the past montages. It's just
gonna be a good day. I think it's gonna be
I don't want to like talk about in that sense,
but I think it's gonna be the best day ever
for the podcast. I think we're just gonna have lots
of fun the look back. It's gonna be a good
time and lots of other content. Weapons like you said, Dexter,
Alien Earth starting, peace makers starting, tons of stuff and
uh yeah, nothing Star Wars related and that's what we're
gonna talking about today. Try I did say you know, well,

(05:13):
well you know Patreon, so we'll let you. You know,
you chopped deliver Us before, but said also last time
interrupted with Amy Plants see Naked Gun or together. Both
were great. I'm glad you enjoy those Naked Gun. I
know you and me are gonna see We were gonna
see it KIRKLM. But I don't know if I want
to see him, you know, before the matchup and stuff.
But we were gonna see it because originally me and
Tayor were gonna see him do a review on the Thursday,

(05:34):
but my wife had a work thing so I had
to cam at and we just saw it for numbers.
Whyse It wasn't like a have to. So we'll probably
tell them like what we've been watching or something and
together I want to see I've heard great things. I
just don't know if I'm gonna have the time because
weapons is a must from you. Are you gonna be
checking out together in the years we wor.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
I was thinking that we were gonna go on the
Wednesday because it dropped this Wednesday the sea.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Too early screening.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, just didn't we I watched the trailer, I thought,
I don't know if I want to put Madison through
that right now, because it might be kind of gross
and grungey. And I thought, I know we have a
better track record with the racing movies, and that was
I think they pick for us.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
So yeah, But we are talking about Star Wars. As
I was saying before, the plan is going, and I
was trying to find our thumbnails because for all these
we've had to go get thumbnails and me and Taylor
who primarily did all the art and the thumbnails back
in the day, like like the setup. I don't know
if you remember what we used to do. It was
always the cantina. I'll bring it up right here. I'll
bring up a picture of one of our episodes. Here

(06:38):
what we used to do. I used to put something
joke wise if I could. I can't make it big,
but we used to do for cantina. It was the cantina.
So like just MOS's eyesley or whatnot. So I'll bring
it up there. It's just a small image. I can't
bring it up bigger right now, but it's that. And
then it was the red lightsaber at the bottom, blue
lightsaber at the top, with like the title of the episode,

(06:59):
and then the battle of the script, and then whoever
was the cantina was black and white, but then the
main front was always the like the main topic, like
a PNG of the character. But in the back it
always sneaks some funny stuff there. But I had to
look and we actually never had like an actual logo.
So maybe the episode I have time when it drops
on the actual feeds, I'll try and make that thumbnail.
Don't know if I'll have time, but I'll try. So

(07:19):
I was looking to see, oh, is there, you know,
uh a logo, and there wasn't. But then I found this.
If I can go, I found I'll screen share this.
When I searched Kntina Conversations way crazy AI thing is now,
Uh look at this they cantina cover this on Google
AI over you Cantina Conversations.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Bring yeah, pull it up.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
I'm pulling up. Cantina Conversations is a podcast segment or
series of specifically spin off from Geever's podcast that focused
retrospective reviews of Star Wars Rebels season. Oh that's funny it,
Oh that's so crazy. It's hosted by Travis and Taylor,
and it's known for its indest discussion analysis of an
animated series, the series of the Return for Forbes a
run viewing each season of Rebels. But that's so funny.

(08:02):
Last time I searched this on Google, it had a
different Yeah, here we go. Kntia Conversation is a segment
or show associo with Geekers Podcast. It's a spinoff series
that focuses on in conversations geeky topics, particularly Star Wars.
The show has featured retrospectives on yet Rebels. In August
twenty twenty three, the gek Erst podcast announced Returner can
Team of Conversations in four episode run and then here

(08:25):
we Go and then something different, blah blah blah. Kntinia
Conversations is also part of geek First Podcast network ten
year anniversary celebration in August two tho, this is weird
in August twenty twenty third, so they kind of got
that wrong with other spinoff shows also turning for a
limited time, So it is so crazy that it gets
the year wrong of when we're doing our tenure. But
that's crazy that we've because we've not spoken about this,

(08:48):
like we've spoked about this in the past couple months
of the ten years, so it has not been like
some of we've been promoting all year, but the fact
that Google AI has picked it up and it's like, yeah,
this is part of it, but yeah, this was. It
was one of the first. I can't remember actually pulled
up when the first episode was. I know we did
it for Clone Wars. That was so our first episode
was July fourth, twenty seventeen, and I don't yeah, and

(09:12):
that was I guess on the probably just on the
lead up to Last Jedi. That was at a time
where I think, gosh, I could be wrong if Kirkland
had because Kirkland left that he had moved away for
the podcast from a little bit. It might have been
around that time where we talked about it and then
Amber was always busy, and then I think we specifically
did this because I remember I feel like in twenty seventeen,

(09:33):
there was a lot of newscasts of you, Me, Jessica
and Dylon and they just they didn't hate stars, but
they fucking hated talking to stars the way we did,
because we'd get to a conversation and we would keep
going and going to the point where they had no
interest whatsoever. So it's like, Okay, let's let's do a
spinoff where we can just let loose and we talked.
You can go back. There's tons of great episodes. I
think people really I think that's where obviously we did

(09:53):
a lot of other stuff on newscasts, but I think
that's when people really start enjoy our dynamic together. Because
we've said this before where you and I both love
Star Wars, just both in the very different degrees of
just the things we love about, right, Like your favorite
things are the Clones and those type of things. Were
my favorite things is the Force and the jedis everything,
like favorite movies, et ceteras. When this podcast start, I
would say, Hey, the prequels, but extremely dislike them. Where

(10:15):
now I can kind of I've had some time with them,
be like, Okay, I can see the good stuff in
there that I can watch and still appreciate. Right, So
that's when we really started, and yeah, go back to those.
Lots of those episodes are still like evergreen stuff. Some
of them are reviews, some of them are fun theories.
You know, That's where I started the I was one
of the first I remember doing that victory a lot
when it for like months I was selling Taylor on

(10:36):
all pulptine has to be in nine Yeah no, and
then we got trailer Two's like, oh yeah no, it's
I love it. This is the best thing they could
have done. But yeah, we're here to about Contina conversations.
Go back in the feeds. We've brought back almost every show,
I think, almost every spin off show. But yeah, we've
done this, and Taylor, I will say, before you go,
not go, but before it's your turn. You're talking about

(10:59):
the other intro. This was the first intro you did
for the very beginning, but then I think with the
way it evolved and became a much more silly as
usual type potato trash show. But this was the first
opening Tia conversation. You remember that, you remember that earth
thing you made?

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Ye come on touching is you know, like he's belly like, oh,
it's so tempted.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
And maybe God, maybe you got rid of this because
the music, which is fine license been for this time.
But yeah, maybe you got rid of it for a license.
Let's look at but kept and I guess we should
have the gantina that's fucking loud though too. Sorry, well

(11:50):
I don't remember, Yeah, I make you just threw it
together because you I remember you using that earth exploding
thing for the longest time and I did not like it.
But we had enough thing else, so we just we
just kind of went with it's the same thing for
a while. Like we one of our first GV logos.
I think our second GV logo was the like the
Star Wars font with GV and we like the first

(12:13):
year that's a different podcast, but still like the first
year finding thumbnails logos, like the logo that's known no
for geek versus the g and the V together. That
took a long time to create and I just had that. Technically,
I'll give credit at the Emily. She drew that and
then I made it. I did Adobe three D like
photoshop and put that together. But I think that's why

(12:34):
that was that opening and same thing. We didn't have
a geek first theme at that point. We didn't have that.
So uh, yeah, lots has changed, but we're gonna talk
about Star Wars and whatnot. I thought there's something else
that's gonna throw to you with. But yeah, I'll start
with this right now. What we're gonna do Before I
threw the tailor, he's gonna just you know, what does
he feel about stars overall?

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Right?

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Now, since we've been doing it since way and I
think because a lot has happened, we taught us a
little bit. But in case anyone only listens to canteen
conversations there back for this what we're gonna do today,
Taylor completely forgot about this. He's like, oh, don't tell
the topic as I.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Can't wait months ago, months ago.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
I think maybe a month and a half. But what
we're doing today is we're going to pull up a
Wikipedia page and we're going to look at everything Disney
has produced via movie or TV shows. We're not gonna
do books and comics. Is also we've not read them
all and there's tons of stuff in there, and I
feel like, if that's an easier conversation fil there's probably
way more wins and losses. But what we're gonna do

(13:28):
is we're gonna make a win category and a loss category,
and we're gonna decide for the brand. Because it is
kind of funny. Forced Awakens came out twenty fifteen. We're
celebrating our tenures. So obviously Lucasfilm had bought or Lucasfilm
was bought by Disney much earlier on, but still it's
kind of in sync with their tenure and our ten
uere as far as producing content me and Taylor together,
which will be tough because you know, we don't agree

(13:50):
on stuff. We're gonna decide what is a win for
Disney and what's a loss because I think we talked
about this when Kathleen Kennedy the rumors were coming down
and we got and Or, and it goes ebbs and flow. Right.
Sometimes there's some tough times and go, oh man, maybe
she should go. Then there's some good times where it's like,
you know what, maybe we could have. There could be
worse people doing this job. So what we're gonna do
is we're gonna see under her and other people's leadership,

(14:12):
is there more wins or losses with the shows and
the movies. But you know, since twenty nineteen, Taire, we've
gone lot of stuff. We've gone and Or, We've gone
lots of animated stuff. Clone Wars came back, we got
Rise of Skywalker. But where are you feeling right now
with your Star Wars fan? Because aust you're gonna love it.
I mean specifically with the air of content we're getting
and not with like how you feel as a kid stuff,

(14:33):
just like right now about the stuff being produced, I'd say,
you know, the last year going into next year, because
as right now, we got Mandoin Grogu coming out, we
got Ahsaka season two, Darth Ball Animated, there's probably some
other stuff we know, we got visions, and then there's Starfighter.
There's stuff that's rumored, but those are like the confirmed
things happening right now. So where where are you with
Star Wars right now? Give it gus a number to

(14:55):
start off with. What's your excitement level for the brand overall?

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Ooh, I'm I'm always I'm always really really excited. I
really really am when it comes to Star Wars. I'm
probably around like the nines, but I'm not a full
ten because I just wish that Disney would commit to
the shit that they do. Like I feel like now
they're starting to turn around with the sequel trilogy and

(15:20):
kind of own up to it and just kind of
like put their stamp on it, And I feel like
something like Acolyte. You know, you put that out there,
just so own it, just fucking own it. You put
that show out there, you proved it, you greenlit it.
You did all that everything, the writing.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
They canceled it, but they canceled it.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, so like what the hell like put some If
you feel that confident that you can put it out
to like over eight billion people on this planet, then
you need to stand by that. You need to stand
by it.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
See now we're already getting started. We don't have the numbers,
but what if they put the numbers? Like what if
internally they got those numbers, they're like Jesus, like this
is really low? Like how like how you can't make
that a financial loss? Like if they're like, if we
make another season, we're gonna legitimately lose money. Again, that's
why both Marvel and Disney. Marvel's doing one live action
show year I think, or Star Wars gonna do. I

(16:08):
think they just found out that they like lost like
more money than they thought. So how can you same
thing as us when we do shows and they're not
getting the views like when we did like comic version
for example, We've talked about before we love doing that,
but we just went, okay, if we do comic versions
versus a newscast, which could probably make us a bunch
more income and downloads, How do we not do that. Right,

(16:30):
It's the same thing when you say all they got
to stand by it. You want them just to lose,
just continue to lose money.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
I mean no, but.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Don't buy you cowards, don't just.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Ditch the whole thing. I mean, they got money to spare.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
They got books if you want it. They got Accolade
books coming out.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
We've already talked about this. The books don't count, right,
we've already gone through this discussion.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Well they don't, but they're they're standing by. They're like, oh,
you want more Accolade, Here, read a book.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
They do the books when they've kind of given up
on the project. That's what they did. No shade against
the Higher Republic. But again, the Higher Republic should have
live action content and they kind of again with Accolyte,
we got that, but then it's like, oh no, okay,
you get more books. You get more books. Go read
about your rail Avarae and not was it rail Avarae?
No loading grade storm and bells that Aphar and Buriaga.

(17:21):
I love those characters. Anyways. I think that for me
with Star Wars, I just wish that they would put
a little bit more attention and respect into those different
stories that they created, and the biggest one of all,
it just comes down to Acolyte for me, because I
really just can't believe that we got Plagus and Plagas
just got shafted so hard. That's such a major major

(17:46):
storyline Palpatine's master.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
If you were watching it, they didn't care about it.
You know that happens a bad show.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Oh it's just tragic.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
I think obviously it's tough, right, because I think it
comes by a case by case basis. I think they
are way more. It's interesting because the past, like, since
we're doing this ten years, I feel like we had
like a big run where Marvel anything they're putting out
was great, and the DC anything they're putting out was
very very iffy. Right where Star Wars I think they
started that run a little bit good. But then now

(18:15):
there I think the most fifty to fifty stuff right,
because we did get Accolte, which I extremely did not
like for many reasons. You go back and listen to it,
and not for the dumb red eye reasons like oh
they did this and this is woke. No, no, just story writing.
Character stuff didn't work for me on multiplitudes, right, not
the plagacing. The plagacing I thought was cool. Obviously there's
some weird can stuff that end up having, but we're

(18:37):
not seeing plagas probably ever again. But anyway, so you'll
do a show like that, or even a year or
two before Mando three, which was just just I won't
say killed that brand, but it definitely took a bunch
of people's hype down tremendously. But then you got and Or,
which is just you could pay a case. To me,
that's like a top well, not trying to spoil anything,

(18:58):
but like you know, probably I mean my top. When
we do our top ten TV shows for our geek
for special for the ten year on Patreon, you could
make the case set is the best. I said this
on the last episode, so if anyone didn't listen to it,
I said, Empire Strikes Back has always been my number one,
and there's never been anything that has come close. There's
other Star Wars stuff that I rate really high, but
I've always think Empire's always like, that's firmly there, it's

(19:20):
not getting shaken right and Or season two was the
first time I was like this. I still wouldn't, but
it's the first time I was like I could make
it argument for something being greater than that or enjoying
that more. And then Skeleton Crew, which you know I
was not on those reviews because I was on parental leave,
but I loved a lot more than you guys, And
I said before, I think that's what Star Wars should
be going forward. Where had some loose connections, but they

(19:41):
are fun can and stuff like I remember they mentioned
some sort of like planet thing and you brought you
came to Kurkling, like all this has to with like
the old Republic, this and that. But that's where it's great,
where it's like you, it worked for you, but if
it didn't work for anyone else. It was just like
a planet's name, like that's all you need, right. It
wasn't just avert like, oh my god, it's cat Fain,
Oh my god, it's you know, Ezra Miller. You know

(20:02):
is that who it is? Ezra Miller? No, that's the
actor shitting the actor Ezra Bridger. Oh my god, it's
as A Miller the flash they're here. But I just
thought it was a great use of being practical. So
that's where it stuff. Like every project I have stuff
that I've given tens or nine. In the pastal years,
I've had multiple things I've failed. So that's where I

(20:23):
feel like my overall, I feel like I have to
be like at a A six point five. The reason
I could, I think quality wise, I could get to
a seven. But the problem is, like you mentioned, it's
for you, it's the standing by like the act. Like
for me, it's just standing by what you announce, right.
I've had this conversation with Katie and Clay where you know,
I was I'm pissed that they, you know, not really pissed,
but piss in like the fanboy sense of like they

(20:45):
announced the Ray movie and then it's like, yeah, and
we're getting that script written. I know how Hollywood works.
I know many times you announce movies and you don't
have a script ray right. Even more right now they're
shooting the fucking Avengers Doomsday. There's no script ready for that.
But for me, when they've had so many issues, you
hire Stike, don't tell us about it till you're ready
to go. You don't need to tell. Like if they

(21:06):
just do these announcements at CON's or Disney Celebration or
D twenty three to pop a crowd and then it's like, okay, good,
we got them, and then we'll wait for the next one.
That's my issue of, like, I get I'm not saying
that if you're writing a and that's fine. If it's rumored,
that's a rumor. That's not you putting out, that's someone
scooping it. We can't hold them by a scoop right
the same way with Obi Wan. We always wanted it

(21:29):
and we always wanted them to confirm that, but up
until that point they never would, so we just oh,
it's a wish. I'm way more like that method of hey,
there's stuff in the wind, maybe it will happen. Versus
they've come out and physically said hey, we're doing this
and then they don't do it. That bugs me way
more because same thing. Let's say, O Wei want the
show happened, but and at one point that was supposed
to be a movie. Same thing, Let's say, hey, we

(21:51):
want to make it obi one thing, Let's take pitches
and then they get a bunch of pitches and if
they just all sound bad, then don't make it, and
you never have to announce it, and then we don't know.
We can always theorize go, oh, what if? Right, but
at least it's not a for sure we're now the
Ray thing. It's like we're waiting for that. We're waiting
for the Taykka thing. That's like a thing. Maybe we'll
go over yeah, try and remind me before we end this,

(22:11):
let's go over the stuff that's been announced that's not
out there and stuff, because it's just kind of crazy.
It's like the DCU now. So that's where I'm a
six point five because the quality is very fifty to
fifty and the announcements and whatnot. That that's the tough thing.
I can't get it to a seven because I feel
like it's a brand. I can't really trust them on
what they're gonna do, and especially with we don't know

(22:31):
what's gonna happen with Kathy. Right, we're gonna look at
it today and see more wins and losses. But I'm
actually now have gone the reverse where asked me two
years ago? I thought, oh, you know what, maybe we're
gonna Getkathy out of there.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Now.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
It's like if the people that are replacing her are
the people to me, it's they're similar to Kathy, but
they have less skills so that's where it's like, that
doesn't make any sense to me. It's like, if you're
gonna get someone that doesn't have the same school as Kathy,
then go a whole different route, right, But don't cat
just get someone that's like the adjacent but then also
does not have thirty years of producing films on her side,

(23:05):
right like Filoni doesn't have that. So yeah, we'll see
what happens. But yeah, that's right. I'm like a six
point five. It sucks. It's definitely like the lowest it's
been because even after the prequels, I feel like that
was like as a kid, I didn't like think about
it that way. And there's always Star Wars games coming out,
right and whatnot. But yeah, let me go Disney era
Star Wars. Is there anything you want to say or
anything before we start this little chart here?

Speaker 2 (23:28):
I don't think.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
So, Okay, can you make a like a like a
written document that you can share on the screen every
once in a while we don't have to share, but yeah,
put in the drive or something like that so we
can pull back to it. I think see Star Wars
that was twenty twenty five. Kay, I don't want to
I'm trying to find the Skywalker. I'm trying to find

(23:50):
everything they've done. Holy shit, they've done a lot of television.
No timeline. Oh I don't want the timeline. No, Wikipedia,
don't give me that. I don't like. They have a
whole timeline Canon Media, so it shows you every the

(24:13):
whole time time with the new Cannon. And they got
like fucking like Star Wars Jedi adventures like I don't,
I don't need, and we're not gonna count that. Okay,
that's not one. We're gonna talk about Jedi adventures. You know,
we don't need to go there. But let me let
me just find No, they keep giving me. I should
have my apologies. I should have had this up before.

(24:36):
They keep giving me stuff that's gonna be released. But okay,
Disney Era, let's see. Okay, Cannon Television and streamings, let's see. Okay,
I think I got it all here. It might not
be in a particular order here, like a date order,

(24:59):
because I think I got like and I made a
live action whatnot. So we'll just go with this. So, okay,
do you you got that chart up? You don't got
to have it up all time ago. So you got
wins and losses. Right, yeah, all right, I think this
is gonna be easy one for us. Let's start without
all kicked off. Force Awakens, Taylor. Would you consider that
a win for Lucasfilm or a loss?

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Oh, that's a win, no wonder how you look at it.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
I think that's an absolute win. That is still the
biggest movie domestically of all time. I think that was
I think the two points you could point to of
the new fan like in the Disney era fandom being
the most happy was when Mandalorin premiered, because I think
a lot of people reunite on that. But I think
more so was Force Awakens. Now, granted, I will say

(25:42):
probably a lot of that was just Nostalgia're just happy
it was back, right, There's a lot of that because
in fact, there's a lot of people that liked Force Awakens.
That after the fact I went on, I don't like
it as much, but I think it was a massive win.
Also made a lot of money, got about new stars fans,
gave us a lot of new great characters, and that's
still one of my favorite Stars movies. I love that
movie so much. Also, it leads too's a little bit
mess and whatnot. But uh no, I think that's a

(26:05):
that's like an easy layup wins. That was like they
that's the thing for the reintroduction of Star Wars. They
no notes, they did that tenant and you can feel
everyone about the movie. But as far as like a
global phenomenon, they did a great job. So that's more
so what we're talking about, not just like the quality
of the movie, just like over on the branding and stuff.
So all right, next we got Rogue one, Taylor, was
it a win or?

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Oh my god, that's a win this movie? I mean
again it's are they all billion dollar films? Yes, we'll
talk more about the other ones later. This one is
definitely a win. I mean, what's it throtten tomatoes score?

Speaker 1 (26:37):
What you're talking about the act like now a getting canceling?
You want to talk about rotten to male scores? You're
able to Rogue one? What does that even matter here?

Speaker 2 (26:44):
What is that before eighty seven?

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Oh? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (26:46):
People people love this movie. People love this movie. All
I hear good things about Rogue one.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Don't you were? You were on a podcast Our very
first review for Rogue one was a bunch of people
saying negative stuff.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
You were those years ago. But now all I hear
when I talk to people with people, they really like
Rogue One. They like how it props up a new
hope and it kind of just goes kind of hand
in hand with it. And yeah, just a lot of
people really really enjoy that movie. Hopefully you do too
after watching anding.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
No, I'm just joking, I'm just Barren the lead. Definitely
a win here because for me, honestly, somebody that did
not love the movie at time, I think I have
liked it a little bit more over time, but I
still have issues with it. And it's tough though. Right
it is similar to like the Clone Wars to prequels,
where I think that movie is helped by and Or,
but that's kind of a cheat, right, but still it
has helped. But the movie by itself at the time

(27:39):
I had some issues, but as a branding one, and
I could definitely say I'm in the majority where tons
of people think that, or I'm in the minority where
tons of people has that listed in their top three
or their top Star Wars movie, et cetera. I think
people did really enjoy that. And again, as far as
it being a big win, oh man, So it might
say this rogue won the best Star Wars.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Movie, like you're with me there, let's go.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Shut the fuck up? Love you fella Canadian Mike. Yeah,
I can't go that far. I don't see there. I
think there's stuff about. I think there's great visuals and
there's great moments. I think like that movie lacks so
much character development and the writing has so many just
like flaws even last time I watched it. But there's
some great stuff in there. Don't get me wrong again,
this isn't about the quality. They put out a movie

(28:22):
that like, Okay, I guess there's two phone right, because
there's no big stars in that and it's literally just
using a line from the first movie of Oh we
got the Death Star plans and making the movie. I
will say, and this is where we'll never know and
it's tough. I think Vader being in that movie. Do
you agree with me? If Vader's not in the marketing,

(28:43):
they don't make a billion. I'm not saying it's bombs,
but I.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Think Vagay still do because he popped into one tiny
little scene in the marketing and that scene wasn't even
in the movie.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
He no, he was all over the marketing, wasn't he
a posters and stuff? Let's see, I think to me,
I thought they were. And even then it's just like
the Death Star alone too, but I swear there was.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
He's very He's in the poster but fa on the background.
But he was not in the trailers aside from like
there was one scene one if you pull up the trailer,
pull up the trailer, pull the trailer.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
He's been pulling up the trail. You can pull up
and scrubbing if you want to. But like Ta says,
he's barely the background. He is the second biggest character
on the poster behind dinner.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
So and the gas not even gonna see him back there.
They're looking so.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Many people will go, that's our fair. I loved our fair.
But I loved our Fair. I'm saying that I granted again. Also,
that's in a movie, err where movies were making billion
dollars all the time, right, like Captain Marble. So maybe
let me see how bunch you got over. Let me
before I uh retract or confirm that sayment it made okay, Taylor,

(29:49):
I'm standing by it made one billion point zero five nine,
so not even one point one. So it's like one
hundred million under to getting to a billion, like not
even it's like fifty million, fifty nine sorry, sixty. I
think I have no problem in saying, and I feel
like for you, if it was bigger, you could stand
by this. I have no problem saying that dar Vader

(30:12):
is dar Vader who they had not seen. I'm not
counting Revenge of the Saith because like for a little bit,
they had not sent seen since Return of the Jedi.
I think he is sixty nine million dollars worth of
ticket sales. I absolutely do. I think he's more than that.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
So he was not in the teaser trailer at all
that they put. That's like a two minute trailer. He's
not in that trailer at all. And then he pops
up in one second of a scene and a story trailer.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah he's there. And then he's on the poster. He
was all over the TV spots and he was there's
other posts.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
No he what TV spots. I have not seen any
TV spots where he was all.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Showed him, especially after the movie. They showed the hallway
scene a little bit. Don't get don't don't try to
mendela effect.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
So this is the only this is this is the
only thing in the trailer is you see get Star Vader.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Everything else is literally like two minutes of just everything else.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
So do you think, do you in your opinion, Let's
say let's go back in time. Let's say Comcon last
Year happens. They don't an ounce Danny is doomed. Do
you think when they released a doomsday trailer, if they
showed a one second shot of Ironman, that would not
move tickets?

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Hmmm?

Speaker 1 (31:24):
You know what, you're bullshing yourself right now. And that's
I'm saying, Vader, they one billion and fifty nine million.
I'm saying it's not like I'm not even saying that bombed.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
I don't think. I don't think it's Would you, okay,
would you say the Vader's helmet and Force Awakens is
what added like a billion to that movie?

Speaker 1 (31:42):
I'd say it all though, because that's tough. Because you
got Lea, you got Han, you got I think the
Vader helmet did add to that. You got Chewbacca. That's
too many, Like each of those characters are worth like
you'd have to look at the chart, but that's like
worth like one hundred million there three hundred million there,
Like I'd say, Han Soul is like worth like five
hundred million, like all those and they didn't have Luke,

(32:02):
but everyone thought Luke was gonna be there. So that's
like worse than more millions. So that one's trickier because
that has so many returning characters. Right we're in Rogue one,
it was just the Death Star Invader Palpatine's not in
there grammar of Tarkan's not selling tickets. He like, even
if they showed him, he's not selling tickets. So I'm
not saying that, I'm saying it could literally make nine
hundred and ninety nine million dollars. I'm just saying I

(32:25):
don't think it hits a billion without Vader in there.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
I think I think Force Awakens just totally recaptivated the franchise.
That a delay, and I think off of all that hype,
that's another thing that sent people into Rogue one. I
don't think Vader had that much of an impact on
the ticket sales. I think it was just the magic
of Force Awakens Star Wars being back getting something that
is just such a like a I.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Feel like also because he was coming back, sure, even
as Obi Wan, but the fact that obi Wan was
Star Wars' biggest show, and Vader's also in the marketing
for that is another just cap in my feathers, like
Vader at one point that shows Vader still moves tickets,
he still moves merch. I still think if you make
a Vader show or movie that move like that does.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
But how well did Obi Wan do? Numbers wise?

Speaker 1 (33:08):
And we never get the full numbers. We just know
that it's second behind Loki. I think it's like Loki
and then obi Wan. Obi Wan's the best Star Wars
show they've ever done, like viewer wise, But we don't.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Think that's because you think that's because of the Vader.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
I think I think he helps. I think obi Wan
and Vader together is a great combo. But either way,
I'll say it's a win because they put a spin off,
not big, too many big characters, big actors, made a billion.
They are run high. Now here's where things get interesting. Uh,
here's where the real fun begins. Last Jedi, is that
a win for you or a loss for you?

Speaker 2 (33:43):
It's gotta be for me?

Speaker 1 (33:46):
Well well yeah, but like what we're saying overall for
the brand, like if they're look at their wins and
loss in the past decade. Consider that a winner or a loss. Yeah,
for the.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Brand, it's a loss. And I say that because of
how divisive it was to the like the fandom and
the community. And that being said, I know people that
love Last Jedi. They just praise it. I know other
people that absolutely just hate with it what they did
with it.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
And so many people have that list as their like
favorite movie.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Ye, absolutely they do. Yeah, And you know, to each
his own. I I do enjoy the movie. There's a
lot of really good stuff with it. I hate that well.
I really like Rise of Skywalker. The two really just
conflict each other. For Force Awakens can stand on its own,
but then the next two just really just like they're
just like fighting in the alley, just going to town
on each other.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
That's so true, ye, drunk.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
It damages both of their stories and both of what
they're trying to do. I like Last Jedi, but I
don't like that they just shafted Ray. I like Force Awakens,
but I like that they were trying to give Ray
more of like a bigger backstory. I don't like that
she was a Palpatine, but you know, here we are.
So that being said, sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Oh, I was just saying, I wonder because I remember
there was I think because I can't remember where you,
I think you were. I think we were almost all
on that. Were you fine with Ray being a nobody?
Like if they would have kept that route.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, I would have been okay with it, even though
I prefer she was somebody but not.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
A But that's where yeah, And that's the thing where
I feel like the Palpatine thing like didn't work for
either crowd, Like I was somebody when they made that
last year I reveal like, oh you're nobody. I'm like, oh,
that's that's great. We talked about how many times so
many people are all relay, all time fucking happy Gilmore
two recently, you know, like like that somewhere is like, oh,
I'm completely like I would have been fine either way.

(35:32):
But it feels like the Palpatine reveal was like the
people I wanted to be nobody aren't happy, and the
people I want to be somebody aren't happy. Like I
don't know, I wonder if there's anybody people. And this
is not like in a native way. I mean like
if you listen to geek first and how long safe
space comment on this Facebook and the discord. Let's like,
if you still like that reveal, let us know. This
is not me saying oh you're dumb. I just mean like,

(35:53):
I haven't met anybody that's been you know what. I
really liked the Palpatine reveal. I think even the time
people might be like, oh, okay, good, that's so powerful she is.
But I just feel like no one's that. That's not
something they stand by. You know. It's like, oh man,
that's what that was the Bee's knees back then. So uh, Superman.
Mike is right here. I was gonna ask if this

(36:13):
would be a fun podcast to do, Mike, if if
you have any ideas, he says, Last Jedi, the film
that shattered the online film discourse. Absolutely true. That was
one of those where it felt like nothing and Star
Wars was never the same. It felt like it was divided.
We just talked about this. Oh no, I guess this
was allf air. But here hearing all this, I don't
I don't care. You know it me Leam and Kyle

(36:35):
when before he did that, we do. We're lots of
stuff life and politics, and we even talk about in
the world right where even like American politics, it felt
like whatever side you're on, when Trump won, there was
a huge shift in lines drawn right here in Canada.
We talked about many places like when COVID happened, huge
line drawn of you know you're not vaccine, not wearing
a mask or mask wearing a vaccine, and it feels
like for a while, this is a battle. Mike's right,

(36:57):
that's last year, I think is the one. I do
give a lot of credit as well to BVS. So Mike,
that's what I was gonna ask anybody else in the
discord too. You can hit us back later on what
do you think is the Mount rushmore of? Because I
feel like it's twenty ten, and on what's the mount
rushmore of? Like the shattered the online film discourse, because
I do think Last Jedi is it might be the

(37:18):
top dog. But I could also put BVS because I
remember when BVS came out that was That's when I
was in the thick of things of online discord that
was heavy. I could also put Man of Steel up
there because I feel like that was a movie that
really divide people. I remember walking out of the theater
with my Best Buy crew and all seeing it and
all of a sudden, not like except for one of
my best friend's cousin was like, oh I loved it,

(37:39):
you know, and he was just like alone on his
total poll. And then later on there's other people that,
like I met through online stuff that liked it or
like a you know, a Jessica or Amber. But for
a while, I met no one that liked Man of Steel.
But that's where I'm trying to think, Like what else Taylor?
I was trying to say, because I agree with Mike
about Last Jedi, and I said, maybe this was a
good episode to do one more like I said, like

(38:00):
Last Jedi, Bbs, I said, maybe mans Steel. What do
you think are there? Is there any other films that
jumped to mind that just like Win the Discord, like
like the Discourse just like started and never never change,
you know, like it's just from that point on, you know,
even though it's not a movie. I could also say
when James Gunn was hired as DC president, I feel
like from them there's always been like a fighting and whatnot.

(38:24):
But does anything, Oh this is a pretty good one, uh,
Mike says Last Jedi Ghostbusters twenty sixteen, Captain Marvel Bbs
I would still I would boot Captain Marvel still from
Mass Steel because I think my prom Captain Marvel is
that's tough because Captain Marvel Ghostbusters both suffer from like
red eye syndrome, you know where I feel like Man

(38:45):
Steel where BVS and Last Jedi had discourse that wasn't
just like it's woke, it's this. It felt more like
it was about this is you are hurting the net,
like the characters like their core, like, that's not my
Luke sky Walker, that's not my Batman. Where that's where
I still put Ghostbusters. I can take that because I
can see people be like, that's not my Ghostbusters Captain Marvel.

(39:08):
No one was saying that's not my my Carrold Animals,
people like who the fuck's cat to Marvel? Like, So
that's where I still would put Man of Steel because
that was a lot of that's not my Superman. But
does any other film jump into mind that? The discourse
just got so heavy when it came out. But those
are good ones.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Jeez.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
I think Last Year and BVS are the top though
those two I think are the tippy top.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Those two together, Yeah, I would say that's right. Gosh, Okay,
Ghostbusters is a good one. I can't really can't think
of anything.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, may we'll cycle back to it. Maybe we've talked
about some other shows we might do. Maybe that's a
good one to cycle back and look through the eons
of time. But before we continue on, Superman says the
Last shed I, Oh sorry, last year is the only
loss if you're take an account of that cause disaster
of Rise of Skywalker. So here's the thing, Sataya says, lost.
So here's my here's my argument here. You know, movie

(39:59):
made over billion dollars, a bunch of money. You know,
you could argue that might be the most beautiful stars film.
Some of the shots in there, My god, like the
ending back on cret Jeez, Louise. I think Mark Hamill
is great again. That's another big decision. And I think
you could make the argument that Adam Driver gives the
best single performance in Star Wars. And maybe there's overall

(40:20):
you can put different movies and whatnot, but in one
single project, I don't know if anyone's as good as
Adam Driver in Last Shedi period. He is incredible in
that movie, and it makes some bold choices too. I
think that's why people love it like I remember that
ending with the Throne room and him killing Snoke, like
there's some choice for like, man, you guys got the
Cajones right here right. My problem is, and this will

(40:41):
spoil my thoughts to the next one and we'll just
lump them together. I think it has to be a
loss as well. But I also think the risa Skywalker
has to be a loss because my opinion is not
even to do with the box office, the online discord,
which the discourse, which you can put in there as
a loss. Well, my thing is the reason those are
losses is because they didn't really play those out at all.
They just did the whole walt We're gonna let JJ

(41:03):
do it, and Ryan's gonna come and do it, and
then we're gonna let JJ. That's why to me, it's
kind of like they both take the ship down. Even
though if you I'm not say you can't like the movie,
and I'm saying both billion dollar movies super successful for them.
People like to paint else wise, like obviously there's some backlash,
but still it's not like last Jedi came out and
then writes Skywalker came out like plumbing a big time.
It's still the lowest, but still made a billion dollars,

(41:24):
which is hard to do nowadays. So to me, that's
where I am. It's just because they did not force Wickens,
I thought was a great setup and a great push
to get stars back they should have had. I know
George didn't exactly have all that all mapped out, but
he had enough of the beats in my mind for that.
And the prequels that's where it's like. The sequel trilogy
are better main movies from a film standpoint, but the

(41:46):
prequels story take out the writing, like this dialogue and
script and everything. The story is better because it's like
it's a it's a one eight to one b Like
there's a line of where they're going, right, there's some
stuff that makes sense, but there's a line where the
line to force wakens the last Jedi, right, skywalkers all
over the map. So would you agree that you'd put
them both in the loss category?

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Yeah, I'd put them both in the loss.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, they got their money, but they it was worth it.
Who knows, uh. Next year, I don't know where we're
gonna come down on this one solo A Star Wars story,
I feel like and I'll make my pitch because I
know how much you like it, and make Solo two
happen all that stuff. I feel like it. It does

(42:31):
have to be a loss because one the.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Money Jedi, this is last Jedi that damn right, affected that,
I would.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Say, yeah, But then right, Skywalker made a billion.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Because it's a main and a main story, main story film, right.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Maybe, or people just did not, including myself, want to
see Han Soul without Harrison Ford. Right, that's another thing
where it's just like they didn't want that, they didn't
want a prequel. I don't buy the l And it
also came out the same time as Deadpool and Ifinny
War remember that same month. So I'm gonna say with Solo,
there's a bunch of reasons. I don't think it's just one.

(43:07):
I think last Shit I did a little bit of that.
I think, okay, I'll take this back. It's not that
Harrison Ford's done the role. They didn't find a guy
that had the Harrison Ford energy. I think we can
all admit to that. Well, I don't know if you
say like that, but he no, he is nothing like
Harrison Ford. He's not he cannot.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Play he's not like Harrison Ford, but he's very much
he played Solo.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
I know he's not Han Solo. He's not. That's not
Han Solo. That's my Fairy Star Wars character hashtag not
my Han Solo. But take that out. Why I think
it's a loss for two reasons. One that was I
think the real start of their problems of remember that
movie had two different directors, and midway through they canned
them and reshot the whole movie. So I feel like
this was the start of the whole let's like, oh,

(43:51):
this isn't working, let's throw everything. Like I feel like
if this movie didn't keep going, we would have been
the situation whe where they would have announced Solo and it
would have just been killed, like the way that's happened
with the Ray thing, with the Taika thing, with the
Ryan Johnson trilogy. I feel like it would have had
the same fate where ah, whatever, let's just not do it.
So I think it really started to show some seams

(44:11):
in the system. And my thing is why it's a
lost here. For whatever reason it came out, it did
not perform well, and it scared them from making spin
off movies. We talked all this before. I really wish.
I prefer I watch someone made that Obi Wan movie cut.
That's way better than the show other than some editing
snaff foos, I'd say, but that scared them from making spinoff.

(44:32):
So that's why I would say to the loss, nothing
to do with the quality. I'd say, they put that
out and what they should have done. Okay, that didn't work,
what's next, what's else? But they didn't. They got scared,
they tugged their tails and they ran. They made the
Skywalker thing, and then they're we're just gonna do TV
shows and obviously COVID and strikes happen. I get that,
but we knew for a while there was no movies
really being planned, and now we see, right how many

(44:53):
movies got made and they didn't. So that's my pitchy
why it's in the loss. There's nothing to do with quality,
just the fact of one, some big production issues were
starting with lucasfilm. As far as you agree to these
guys direct this film and the midway you don't like it, Like,
how come you guys then talk this out? And two
it scared them from other spinoff movies for a while.
We'll see, and I don't I'm still not killing Maniwar
and Grogu because that's not that's a spinoff for a spinoff, right, Like,

(45:16):
that's a proven TV show. So that's my pitch, tare
of why's and loss? What say you?

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Oh, I say that. I don't think it is the
movie's fault that they you know, they decided to put
it up in a very very short time frame after
the last Star Wars movie and the last Stars movie
being Yeah that I.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
With it and that's it. Yeah, absolutely, that's another factor.
Plus it only keep it four months after last Star
Wars movie too soon. They train us to associate Star
Wars with Christmas event, which is funny though, because Mando
and Starfight are not Christmas.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
There in May no Avatar, right Avatars there new.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Yeah, well yeah that's what happened. Avatar made all the money,
they ditch Star Wars, like, yeah, you don't get that
Christmas slot anymore. So m hmm.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
I just think that they they set it, they set
it up to be doing poor with the fact that hey,
we're going to release it four months after a very
highly controversial Star Wars film has divided the fan base,
and yeah, it's just it's it's unfortunate. I can see
where it, like from what it earned at the box
office and the damage that has been done to it

(46:20):
based on the other Last Jedi, I feel like it
will be in the loss, as much as I try
to fight for it. But it's a dang good movie.
I really really do enjoy it, and it's a fun
anthology story, and it's just it's nice to get something
that is very much on the big screen and was
not so heavily tied into like the main saga like

(46:41):
Rogue One is heavily attached to that because you're getting
these characters and the rebellion everything, and the empire and
these high ranking imperials. Everything really tied into that story
and the main saga films. But this it's just really,
even though you get Solo, you're still really really just
at that baseline of just this is uh, you know,

(47:02):
a smuggler story, just up and coming kind of guy,
a low guy trying to make his way up in
the universe by doing heists and jobs. And I think
that's too bad that we can get some more build
up off of that, because you know, it's that that
was the start of them dipping their toes more into
other Star Wars stories, and Star Wars is so huge
that we could just happ into so many stories. You

(47:24):
don't need to be do a reboots, you don't need
to do anything like that. There's so many planets in
places you can go to. We can do.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
So so much. Talk to them in ten years they
might need to do a reboot. But you know, in
honor of shut the fuck, I'm not gonna talk about that,
I do bear ignoring it. Miscast with Han Solo writings,
Bary me so Han Solo, they get the blast like
all the bad prequel stuff you hate. The fucking sequel

(47:51):
set up with Darth Maul was lame, a bunch of stuff,
so many problems in that Hansol is a character too,
does not work. Yeah, that movie is definitely like low
low tier Disney Star Wars stuff. So but not the
reason I have this is loss. So let's go to problem
This might be some easier ones. Let's go to the television.
But on the animated side. So what do we think

(48:13):
about rebels.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Oh, that's an absolute win for sure. I've not heard
any one talk badly about that show. And well, it's
one of those examples too. Where it starts off really
really kidty. It just it gets more grown up, an adult,
and they don't hold back when some of these characters
start getting killed off. Yeah, it's just what is the

(48:39):
term for, oh man, lackluster? No? Not that? What are
Jedi called that became Jedi after Order sixty six?

Speaker 1 (48:53):
That is a bitch is Yeah, not canon in my opinion,
not canon. They should be not can There should be
no fucking Jedi is left when Luke's bopping around. But
you know, I.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Digress talk for a second.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Anyways, I'm just can. I'm with Taylor. I think this
is a win. I think also they couldn't do Clone
Wars right away, but I think this is was a win.
It was a fun introduction. And yeah, I don't like
a lot of the beats that they do in there
as far as the overall stories, but the characters within
them are good. I'm somebody that I I prefer It's
sacrilegious saying I prefer Rebels to Clone Wars. I like
the narrative, I like some of that time period. And again,

(49:27):
there's some issues I have with the original Clone Wars
show that I just think is just some like almost
more kiddy, right, And there's stuff where it does hell
with Anakin, but other times it hurts it where it's
just like, how come no Jedi's talking to about this
thing he did? Like this is so out there. It's
like like it just makes it seem like they're even wars,
you know. So, But yeah, I put rebels in the
win that led to Ahsoka, which you know, we'll find

(49:50):
out later if that's a winner or loss, but yeah,
I'd put that in there. That was just the start
of it. So it's you know, here's a new animated show.
There you go. Did you find your term?

Speaker 2 (49:57):
I can't find a term, but a story is that
focus on Jedi becoming Jedi after the Purge. I really
really like that kind of stuff. And with Ezra Bridger,
He's he wasn't my favorite character at the start, but
I really like him and where he kind of develops
and becomes more of a wholesome Jedi ah at the
end of it. I really like the show. I think
that they again they bring in some really cool things,

(50:18):
the Inquisitors and with Mal trying to take in Bridger,
and then you get Rex and the Clones and all
these are really really emotional arcs and sequences. It's really
really cool.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Okay, I'm gonna say these two together very different, but
I think we're gonna be on opposing sides, but I
think we should try to come to the same side.
So I'm gonna say resistance.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Wait wait, were we putting rebels on win?

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (50:40):
When that's okay?

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yay, I think so.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
I think it did a good established like a new
character's dipping your toes and Dizzy animates to start. There's
some good crossover. I still think they made a mistake
never making dar from on Darth Vador fight, but I aggress,
but it.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Might happen in the new show.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
People are talking, oh god, all right, Resistance and bad Batch.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
Bad Batch is a win, bad Batch is a loss.
Bad Bats two.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
That's why not a good thing no to me? For me,
and I'm saying resistance as well, because I think you
would put resistance. There's no reason not to make resistance
a win because it really affects nothing. It's just like
a little kids show that's on a channel that gets
some viewers. But if you think it's a loss, I
can agree there for me. A bad Batch and WAPs
with darf Maul The reason I would put them in

(51:30):
the loss is because it's just Folony is still just
stuck in that one era clone like Rebels, clone Wars,
bad Batch and mall they're just all too similar. And
that's where we've talked about before, where yeah, it's great
to die in that stuff. I know you love dying
those new like the other Commandos and went up. At
the same time, it's like how you're talking about Solo
or act like finally getting these new things wouldn't have

(51:51):
been great if just one one of these fucking Folony
like TV shows would have been like an Ami show.
And even his live action stuff is ahska that he
dress like great if it would have been let's dive
into something else again. I know the word is he
doesn't like the Old Republic, but like High Republic, something else,
like anything else, you know, like even tales, which we'll
get into that's a bit similar. So for me, I

(52:13):
think both Resistance and bad Batch are lost as far
not the quality, just it just felt like it felt
like they said, hey, Dave, you got to make some
for Disney Plasant Eah, just do a bad Batch and Resistance.
I think it was just like kind of very nothing like,
I think they could have done more with that show,
so that's why it's lost. So for me, that's why
those two are lost. But see, if you're trying to
sell me not quality show, why bad Batch should be
a win, because like, I don't think it, Like we

(52:34):
talked about this before too. When Bad Batch was coming out,
that show had after the first season, zero talk about it. It
felt like that show wasn't even releasing. No one was
talking about bad Batch other than I know you Clay
Katie and other like hardcore Star Wars geeks. But like
that show was doa after that.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
First so I think, yeah, first season was a bit rocky.
And again you have these characters that are very very
much flamboyant personalities as we got to see it RecA, RecA,
Hunt Tech, Echo, cross.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Hair, are you fucking kidding me?

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Recor again for a show and for them having very
flamboyant personalities and the clone Wars, and then it just
amplifying that and that first season a bad Batch. When
you get to the second season and then the third season,
the show really brings them down, brings them down quite
a bit, but it brings those characters personalities down back

(53:40):
to back to to Earth in a very good way,
and then you get some of really that really dark
stuff that you got in those later seasons the Clone Wars.
That's just all bad Batch. They pull so much of
the humor out and replace it with just very serious
and emotional moments and just the crazy shit that happens
and the deaths and everything that goes on. And they

(54:02):
take things that were really big highlights from the Clone
Wars and then they spread that and create a really
like it's not just arcs anymore. You have a by
the time you get to the third season, you have
a point a to be consistent narrative where you have
things that were pulled from the Clone Wars that were enjoyable,
and then it's thrown into Palpatine's plan and now it's okay,
you got the bad Batch that are just trying to

(54:24):
do this this objective with Omega, but Omega is a
very higher part of Palpatine's plan.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
And brand new people. It gave us a bunch of story.
It brought old people, I mean viewers, I mean viewers.
It did not bring anybody that's laps right now. It
was just two inside Baseball and stuff like Palpatine's plans,
all this stuff. Why the fuck does it matter at
this point what Palpatine had already been brought back and
killed again.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yes, but the thing is he was brought back and killed,
but you don't have any proper context. That's one of
the losses for Rise of Skywalker. You don't understand anything.
It's like, oh, dark Magic secrets, only the Sith new.
But what I appreciate what bad Batch did was bad
Batch created the foundation along with working with Mandalorian's story
a little bit too of like, okay, here with Project Necromancer,

(55:13):
here's everything that's kind of going on in the background
of everything with Palpatine and his plan. And that's what
I like is that we're not just going to a book.
But you don't have Disney say, okay, read this book
with this comic to kind of learn what was up
with Palpatine. No, we're going to put this story in
a visual representation that you can actually sit down and watch,
and you can see Palpatine building up towards his Project

(55:35):
Necromancer in leading over the Rise of Skywalker. Which that's
that's a big win for me. That's what I'm really
really thankful for. On top of the fact that the
show is just so so fantastic.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Show is not fantastic.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
I think if you got to season three, you'd be
complete one eighty yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Then you gotta get the season, get through season one,
and that's stuff. And these characters did well.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
You already did it, you already finished season one.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
I'm not doing that. I can't in good consc say
do you didn't tell me anything? It gave you some
canon notes. Cool that in a day they can make
a fucking book, a live action show and be like, ah,
that didn't happen. So that's why when your cells like, oh,
gives us more of the cannon, it's like, doesn't matter.
Someone can make a movie, make a seek.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
It's not just the cannon, but it seeks to repair
the damage that rise of Skywalker. And last they had
an act it.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
And did it.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
I think it did.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
I know it didn't.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
But people aren't running to see a car toon and
it's like, oh, kids.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Should and that. But that's what I mean. Maybe this
should have been a live action.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Then live action then I feel like you get the
issue of Solo a Star Wars story.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Well, and then we put the lost category. So if
it's that's the thing where it's like, to me, I
don't think it did anything to repair It's not like
I've got tons of people that have said, hey, the
Clone Wars really helped me with the prequels. Until you've
said this, I've not heard a single soul say, oh,
the bad Batch really made Rise of Skywalker way more accessible.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Everyone just hates the you know, we need to wait
ten years for the sequel, trilling Clone Wars.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
But no, the Clone Wars right away people were onto
it and like enjoying that the bad Batch. They were not.
Maybe if we were doing this list in ten years
has an uprising, sure, but you can admit that it's not.
That show is barely viewed by We're going too this.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
List of ten years from now again, and we're gonna
see people were talking about, oh, the bad Batch just
made Rise of Skywarker so much better for me.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Oh, you'd be like, hey, did bad Batch make Rice
Skywalker band in the bank? What's the bad Batch? You know,
that's what's gonna be happening. Putting in the lost category
with resistance.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Fine, I'll popping in there for a now.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Like I said, we're talking about the brand.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
It's in there. Not it's only temporary.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
No, it's permanent, trust me, it's permanent. The Clone. I'm
gonna count this one. The Clone War's revival in twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Oh, that's a win. Order sixty six.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
Everything that was in there, We've been there before.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
What to do for the brand? Oh my god, that
was just I think all I heard is everyone just
raving about it, just blowing their minds everything. Like people
were just going crazy for that with a Soka turn
on like rac all.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, but it still has being lost kind of think
it has been hang on for this reason. Let me
hear it, let me hear me out. So, no, I'm joking. No,
I think it's win because the thing is. I think
the reason it's a win is for the one particular
reason was in twenty twenty. This has nothing to do
with the time, like it does have anything to do
the time that they didn't know COVID was coming. But

(58:23):
in a year when there was very little content overall
to put this out there and people enjoyed it to
an m degree, that was That's where I heard chatter
for something being cinematic, for animated stuff. So I think
the good thing is with that is I think people
were starting to check out of the animated stuff a
little bit, and that gave it a show in the arm.
Now I don't think again, I just said this with

(58:45):
bad Batch. I even think this would tails a little bit,
even though I don't know if that's win or loss.
I think they didn't capitalize on it. So I think
it's similar to Force Awakens for me, where it was
because Rebels ends in twenty eighteen Resistance, I'm not gonna count.
No one's really watching that, and then yeah, there's nothing
else in the Clone Wars. To me, that was a
Shawn the Arm like okay, some great animation, here we

(59:07):
go again. Like I said, they didn't do much with it,
but that's where it To me, it's like Forced Awakens,
where it was a Shawn Arm for the brand, came
in a good time with COVID, but unfortunately didn't follow up.
But yeah, I would still give it if the wind
category Taylor, So you're safe, okay. I guess said we're
not gonna count Young Jedi Ventures. That's just a show
for kids. Like that's fine. It's it's four season, it's

(59:28):
clear it's doing well enough. This is a tough one
for me because I really don't know just the Tails series.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
I think it started off pretty strong, but there I
feel like they're squandering a little bit.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Yeah, that's the problem. It feels like it's just one
of those things of like a check box, like we
just need some content, you know.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Yeah, like Tails, the Jedi, getting the Yattle, stuff, getting
Douku turning, getting Young Ahsoka even like that was some
cool stuff. I preferred, like the Yaddle and the Douku
arc that was definitely pretty awesome, with like losing Qui
Gon and stuff, really really cool stuff and him even
with Qui Gon doing missions and Qui Gon questioning him.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Well, and again that's what we talked about. And I
like the Ahsoka character a lot. That's what we talked about.
That stuff was great. But I because it Mike says
there should be a third category of draw things that
had zero effect.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
I do agree with you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
I do agree with you in context, but then we
won't debate, Mike, So we're not doing that. That's because
then we would just we'd tattooony draws, Mike. But I
agree with you in a sense, bad Batch could be that.
I think Tales could be that. But I think the
reason it's tough because like that was the great thing
of tales, was exploring some new stories. But at the
same time, it's like, oh, here's a zoak again, and
then they're very like short episodes too, you know, Like

(01:00:39):
that's my pitch of like for bad Batch, even though
I know you're like, like I would have taken the
swap of like bad Batch, get the mini episodes and
then imagine like how bad Batch was, like what eight episodes,
six episodes? How long was there like the first couple
of seasons or the first season or two the.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
First season was like fifteen or sixteen episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Could you imagine if we got fifteen to sixteen episodes
of Qui Gon account Dooku together.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
It'd be pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
So that's why I think tales for me is a loss,
because it's like showing potential. It's someone, it's it's your
about you're having sex, and you tell a person I'm
about to get to the finish point and they stop
and like, well, maybe there'll be more tales next time
they walk away. I think there would be a draw.
But for me, I would put this. I'd put this
in the Lost Gategory because it's lots of potential, but
it's untapped potential.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Yeah, like it is untapped potential because that the first season,
excuse me, it was really really strong and really really awesome,
but then Tales of the Empire didn't even feel like
Empire for half of it because it was just the
Dathamerians versus General Grievous, which I love that art. Grievous
was fucking terrifying, like run just fucking did you ever

(01:01:49):
watch it?

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
No? I haven't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Grievous is a top ten in that and I will
say again, but it's not doing anything for the franchise.
But Tails the Underworld, the whole cad Bane arc was
fucking fantastic and it caught me off guard. And then
everything with with Ventures too, the Ventures arc that was
really really exciting as well, but the cat Bane.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Lost more.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
They don't break it, they they they do a very
thorough job at the start saying here we're correcting, like
any breaking you think happened, So they fix that. But
the cat Baine thing is just a fantastic, fantastic arc.
I really like it, but again, it's not doing anything
for the overall franchise. So yeah, wa what do you do, right,

(01:02:36):
I mean I I think that they should focus on
they should do more tales like get us the Tales
of the Scyth. That's what everyone thought we were going
to be getting at some point here. And then you
get like you get Baine in there, and then you
get like Revin and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
All that's like the head of animation. He ain't touching
old Republic stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
That's why you're never going to see Tails of the Sith.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Yeah, all right, I'm saying that's a loss.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Yeah, it's a loss.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Yeah, it's stuff, Mike. It's a good point of problem
is ninety nine percent of stars fans don't well I
won't say nine to nine percent. I think that's a
little high, but ninety percent of fans don't watch them
and stuff, so it's kind of impossible for any of
them to affect the brand as a whole. Yeah. I
don't like completely obviously create the percentage. I think it's
more just like it doesn't have any impact. Right, and

(01:03:21):
there's the other you know, it's just stutch away for
a second. But I'm gonna argue Visions is a win
because that had an impact to me. It's when you
have a people that are even if it's just Star
Wars fans talking about it. Where we I was on
those first reviews for bad Batch. We have a stars
channel in this coord no one talked about bad Batch, right,
same thing like in GUA, it's like, oh yeah, but

(01:03:41):
I watched it. That's it. Where something like a Vision's
I'm not saying everybody because like still small amount of people,
but that had so much love and so much oh man,
you gotta check this out or just raining boy, like
we need more of this. That's where for me, like
that's where it's considered a winner loss when it just
kind of has no effect. That to me, I could
be a loss obviously a bad effect. It's a loss

(01:04:02):
as well, so I guess it's harder, right, more ways
to lose than win. But even then, like Visions, I'm
sure it's not like pulling huge mumbo jumbo numbers, but
they've on the third season and that is one of
the most creative. That's the that might be other than
now I would say and or season two, but like
other than that, to me, that is might be and

(01:04:24):
and you know, Kyler ren Adam Driver, that's the best
thing that's coming to Star Wars Disney era as visions
like and I at first, because I'm not even be
anime guy, I thought, all right, like this is this
is something like, this is like cool, We'll get to
see some different styles, let's see. But the stories like
they've done it in a way where there's so many
stories that they created in that world that I'd be

(01:04:44):
more interested in than what is happening in the actual
canon stuff, right, And but yeah, the animation is very
hard alvisosly that's why we're kicking Young Jedi Adventures out there.
So Austin's just our predictions and whatnot and everything so
or not. Our predictions just are you know, I don't know,
assessment of what's happened in the past a little while.

(01:05:04):
But yeah, we will see tfil is not back, he said,
any of three more minutes. Let me look at this
other list and see what's going on here. The Disney
era Comton. Yeah, I'm not gonna tell aleut com books
High Republic I thought, you know was a win. I'm
still some books behind. I didn't get there, but uh
yeah we got some still, we got some stuff coming

(01:05:26):
up here. How many shows were got one, two, three, four, five, six,
seven seven shows to talk about. I guess eight when visions,
but yeah, for me, visions clear win. Let's see. Another
problem comes in when you expect people to watch themate
stuff to understand the live action stuff like Ahsoka. That
one for me is a Ahsoka is a very That's

(01:05:48):
a tough one because I know tons of people really
don't like it. But I think that did have at
times some impact as far as like the community. You know,
it as like some debate with Ron and Anakin. But yeah,
that's that's a tough one for me. I know Tay's
gonna say that's an absolute win for him when he
got into back watch Litsten, listen listeners and watch viewers

(01:06:09):
when he comes back, Oh Soca, Oh, absolutely a big
time winning. But I just I don't know, like it's
that that would almost be like the draw category as well.
But again that's what we're not doing the draws because
we would not debate them. And uh, maybe he'll try
to sell me on why Ahsoka might be a win there.
I have one angle of why it might be a win,

(01:06:30):
but we'll see. But uh yeah, well, while away from
you pull up some of these conversations we've done before,
not the audio, but I'm just gonna pup some of
these topics. No, he's back. Here we go. I see
him sitting down here, there we go. I try to
kill as much time as possible. Taylor Visions win or loss.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Visions is it's gotta be a win because all I
hear people praising this franchise.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
That's what I was saying that I was saying to
Mike where to Visions because he we talked about the
animate stuff. We're going back and forth bit there with Visions.
For me, it's like, I don't think it's got massive ratings,
but it's since third season. And for me, that's where
I say, like bad Batch or other shows like a
live action shows too, where we got a Star Wars Discord, Discord,
other people that I know, they don't talk about those things,

(01:07:15):
but Visions. Every time that thing comes out, people are
talking about that, praising it, loving it. I said that
some of my favorite Star Wars since Disney got and
I would have never thought that. So yeah, to me,
that's a big time win.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Yeah yeah, I mean we're getting the third season of
this or third volume we weren't even supposed to be
getting more right, it's just like a one off.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Yeah, and we're getting a sequel and stories. I still
gotta read the book of that, like roll like Samurai one. Yeah,
I gotta read that book. So all right, so we
got our last seven things. We got uh the seven
live action series. Okay, I think these are two easy ones.
The Mandalorian.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Oh, that's a win. I came out again right when
like Disney Plus launched COVID everything, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Yeah, easy win for me. Honestly, we'll see now Man
warn Grogu if we ever, that'll be a different conversation
because I'm so curious to see. Hey, people that already
watched Man Lurien, are they gonna pay for that? Or
they just wanted any Star Wars? Are they Does that
just show the Stars brand is not dead but just
hurt overall, you know, no matter what they put up.
But the show itself was a win, even though season

(01:08:16):
three was a trail off. That was a big juice
moment for Disney Plus. Uh and Grogu, right, Grogu was
a merch mover and people love Grogu. I think they
did a lot of stuff, so f for me, Mandalorian
is a It's a big thing there. You have three,
you have to separate the seasons. I'm not gonna separate
the seasons because then that's even then that if I did,
that's like, like even if we wanted to, that's like

(01:08:37):
I'd still say they're kinda all. Like I don't like
the season three is a lawsuit. My mic says that, like,
I agree with you quality wise, but I don't like.
This is why I can't debate it until we get
the movie. Because season three I think was not the greatest,
but I know a lot of people that still enjoyed it,
and I still don't know if the JA was completely
like I hate this show now, I think that was

(01:08:58):
a down tick. To me, I would put it as
a loss if Manulre and Grogu movie does really poorly too,
because then you'd say, Okay, maybe that show did her.
But for me, I'm fine with just saying the whole
show is a win for now. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
I'd say the whole show's a win for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Okay, maybe Taylor will fight me on this, I would
hope not. But the Book of Boba Fett, I'm gonna
say just for the reputation of Boba fet alone, it
is a loss. Boba Fett one of the most interesting, scary,
popular characters in Star Wars history, a character that for
years of Sely George Jones did the show for years.

(01:09:34):
When they bring them back, when they bring him back
to now, no one gives a fuck about Boba Fett.
They actually have disdain for him. Even God Loves Me
sixty nine for the Geek Versus on GV Day, we said, hey,
put in fighters for us, right, We're gonna randomize them
and we'll put fighters, he said, Boba Fett before Disney.
There is that's like, there is a differentiator there, and

(01:09:56):
that's what sucks. And I to me, I think the
show that's their worst thing I've ever put out writing wise,
acting wise, decision wise, the whole weird thing of like
Mandalorian taking over half the season. I think there's many problems,
but just alone for boa Fett's character. I think they
they they they took an ip that at one point

(01:10:16):
could have been a billion dollar movie that could have
been a massive movie for them, and it was they
or what like, it wasn't me like they had the
idea because remember they were making that movie. Remember the
director Fan Forced. It was gonna direct it. That stuff
happened and they canceled, But they were making a boba
fet movie, so to me, they knew what they had.
But now you put a bow fet movie out there,
there's that's Personda a mount grad like zero height for that,

(01:10:39):
so it has to be lost. They killed one of
the most iconic characters of all time for in the
badass row and you get a charger.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
I'm in the minority because I like this show. Uh.
I like everything with the Tuscan Raiders and how you
know he he he came out of that that's pit
of Carcoon, that Starlac pit and just on the bring
of death and the Tuesk and Raiders took him in.
And then through all this.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Time nice people it changed, you know, the guys that
assaulted and killed Anakin's mom, you know, you know those people.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
That's their defending their property, decent people. I think that
that kind of mutual understanding it helped him grow and
developed as a character, and then he changed his his
ideals a little bit. And I there's so much on
the show that I really really do like. I think
it's a it's a fun, a fun, good time. The

(01:11:32):
things that I don't like are them adding in the
super colorful Speeder Bikes, the Speeder Bike gang. That was
just absolutely tragic and horrible to that show. Them adding
the Mandalorian, you know, that was a nice treat, But
we got a Luke Skywalker episode in there, which is
really just out of the blue.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
That could have been its own show.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
It could have been its own show. Yeah, so that
is that is unfortunate that we got that in there.
And the biggest thing that is just a loss for
me with this is them backtracking and just bringing Grogu
back to the Mandalorian in Bubba Fett's show. I don't
think that was the smart choice whatsoever. He should have
stayed with Luke, should have trained and then have Kylo
Ren face off with him and then Grogu just kick

(01:12:14):
his ass. So no want to kill them, No, No,
he wouldn't have.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
I don't see no Gogu in the sequels.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
He's with Mando. You know that's how they say, man who.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
Didn't make and I was gonna be dead at that point. Well,
it's it gets tricky.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
You'll see the razorcrest in episode nine, which is though
I think you see the razors cresting.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
No, I mean, like that could be like someone like.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Ul got destroyed, but then you see it again in
in Mandalorian and Grogu you see a razor crest in
the trailer. I believe. So Anyways, I just think that
there are so many things I really love with and
I've rewatched it a couple of times, and it's it's
just it's it's definitely a good a good watch through.
And that being said, I love the Bubbafet we get

(01:13:01):
more in the Mandalorian Show and Mandalorian season two and three,
especially season two. Bubbafets just rocks in that one.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
Uh yeah, yeah, he's great there. Yeah, but that's a loss.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
Yeah, it's a loss.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
Alright, let's do a couple more easy ones and or.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
W Well, it's a loss because not everyone likes it. No,
I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
Oh no, that's a win multiple like twenty four Emmy
nominations stuff like that. That's a win. I know you're
gonna like this, I know you're talking about before, but sorry,
like act no acctlaite has to be a loss multiple reasons.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not even gonna argue with it. It's
that was like a Disney.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
I feel like, there's shows because at that point where
we got Manlor and Boba Fett and or Obi Wan,
there's shows that people came out and he didn't like.
But I feel like the actlyte not talking about the
Red Eye people. I feel like that was some of
last shot where that divided a lot of people for
X Y and Z. I'm not talking about the woke,
broke crab talk about Ason can people some other stuff.
But yeah, act like that was a lot and that

(01:14:05):
was It just seemed like Disney was embarrassed. But they've
they like confirmed in an article that the show was canceled.
They never had to do that. They could have just
like been quiet, but that they knew how bad it was.
They had to say something that's how bad it was.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
They knew bastards, plaguas and higher public. God damn, it
was probably at the forefront of that like, oh, let's
just cancel.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
The show where we're ahead, Well, who knows. Rumor was
they wrote one show and then Filony came in and
changed a bunch of stuff and then they canceled.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Because he wanted the show to fail. He probably had.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Maybe he did, maybe he did. Uh, So now we're
down to three, and I think these are the hardest ones.
I talked pouts and I love this so much. Where
do you feel we're Skeleton Crew?

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
I think that's a win. I think I'm too super
super hot on that show, but I think it's definitely
a win. I think more people need to give it
a chance.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
To be honest, that's a tough thing. I think this
is one where because it goes against mine, we don't
have a data point. Not too many people are talking about.
But most people that I've seen it that I talked
to do really enjoy it. I don't think it was
a Shawn the Arm like Clone Wars was, So I
think on this one we just have quality to go on.
And I I just think why I am praising this one.

(01:15:15):
I'm putting in the w because it was the first
thing in life like look at this. So Mandalorian eventually
became very Star Wars, Skywalker, Saga heavy right, Boa Fet
There's there, Obi Wan, There's there, and or connected to
the Dark Times Ahsoka Acolyte again is not. But we
talked about all the other problems and just the way
Disney they look at us a lost Skeleton Crew did

(01:15:36):
was the first thing really after actl like to do
something else on its own and not be connected to
anything again. Not sure the numbers was so this might
this might be a biased one. But you know what,
sometimes these lists are bias. And that's why I'm gonna
give Taylor a bias one because I'm saying, Ahsoka, where
would you put that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
That's a win? That is an absolute win. Oh my god.
It just sets up so much. You get you get
Jedi popping off here, and you finally get just more
story in between episodes six and seven. And I think
that's key because we do you know, it's always like
you said, dark times and everything like that, but finally
get more content between two eras med Laurie you do too, Yeah,

(01:16:14):
for sure. It's just nice to see more on like
a larger scale with the New Republic and just the
Empire kind of operating secret and then just yeah, finally
throw in coming back and he's gonna just rebuild the
Empire and just kind of what this war is going
to mean and everything unfolding. I just and plus you
get finally we get Star Wars zombies in real live action. Fuck.
I've been waiting for that forever. I never thought we're

(01:16:35):
going to get something like that, and that was just
it was so cool, so cool.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
That's true. And then the stuff that the Balance School's going after.
We'll see what happens there, but there could be some
big risks there. I think, ah Soska, it's a tough
thing for me. I'm gonna you know, you gave me
Skeleton Crew. This is our personal list, so that's where
everything has some bias. But I think for me, Ahsoka
will be similar to like how Mike's as you do
the Mandaloren seasons separately and said, oh maybe if we

(01:17:00):
look back on this after the movies there, what will
we do? I think Skeleton or Sorry Ahsoka is the
same for me that I need to see season two,
and I need to see if they do that Filony
movie because obviously that could be a good setup and
a good pay right, because if we get in a
situation where the man Lure and Grogo movie hits and
then they do Ahsoka Soca season two and then like
the Thraw movie or whatever that hits, then you can say, Okay,

(01:17:23):
those were wins because those like bona fide wins because
they set up what was gonna happen, right I think
right now, we're in this era and I think some
people had issues with it, and Mike's right. I thought
it was win for hardcore fans but lost for general audience,
and that's where it's tough. And that's where I get
congree with you that that's where you can almost put
in that draw category. But I'll lean a bit more
to the win because you had stuff like you brought

(01:17:44):
back and again Skywalker, which you know, for me, you know,
I think the episode had some flaws, but for a
lot of people that was very special, right, And that
was a needle mover. That was the moment where even
people that debated if they liked it or didn't like it,
the idea of just bringing Hayden back to actually act
was a big thing after so many years of memes
and getting made fun of. Right. So that's where I like,
I lean a little more towards you know, the w

(01:18:07):
people say all the clone wars seeing that live action, right,
So I'm gonna lean it there for now, maybe when
we do this list and two that that's when, folks,
I'll let you know when we do the list again.
It'll be on GV twenty when we do the wins
and losses. We'll see from there, so maybe we could
have this list and then so, yeah, are you doing
the drive? Is it in the drive? It's yeah, yeah,

(01:18:28):
just keep it there, Just keep it there so in
ten years we'll check on it. So so okay, Ahsoka
is a win there, Okay, we're on our last one
and we'll see over the overall Taley because I've kind
of forgotten, but hey, I feel like this is a
tough one. Obi One can.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
Obi Oh it's a win, right, I think it's a loss.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
Why I think it's tough because to me, this is
similar to the last Jedi thing where massive successful, right,
I think critically successful, their most watched show successful. But
I think the heights of what we thought obi Wan
was gonna be he did not get there. I think
the what's the storyline? Who's the female sit that was
after Babe? That was a big miss. And I'm not

(01:19:13):
talking about the fucking red ip all. I'm saying that
whole like we finally get em back in obi Wan,
and like half the show is about Reva and this
fucking storyline and then like remember remember when she's on
Tataween chasing fucking uncle Ben and Amper and Luke Skywalker
around like I think, like, like this is what I
mean too, Like I I think it's a it's a

(01:19:37):
close one because success wise it's a win. But I
think obi Wan coming back that should had a much
bigger impact and it just feels like it kind of
came and went. And I think the other lost thing
to it worked for Disney plus. But I will always
say and I think the show confirms to me that
this should have been a movie. This should have been
and this should have been the first movie, not even Solo,
because I bet you obi Wan, do you agree with this?

(01:19:58):
At obi Wan, no matter what, would on better money
wise than Solo as a movie, Yes, because Ewen was
coming back right and that could at least still even
go out us to Solo again. And then imagine that
where if they had obi Wan that did Gangbusters and
Soul that did all right, they go okay, well, Solo
just didn't work, but obi Wan did, so let's do
another spin off movie. That's where for me that I
think the conception was wrong, the execution was wrong. Not

(01:20:22):
in a fail way, because I still enjoy enough, but
I just feel like for something we waited for for
so long. It under delivered, not that it was awful,
but under delivered, and it didn't hit the heights that
Ewen coming back should have it. Definitely. We saw the
biggest Star Wars Disney plus thing. The audience was there,
so they I think people would have paid to go
see Ewan and you know it didn't happen, So I

(01:20:45):
think it. I think it goes in the loss for
the potential there. But Taylor, are you on win? Are
you playing devil with Field?

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
I'm in the wind category because I feel like you have.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
Bumbling guards chasing Lea.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
Yeah, I'm in the win because I think you get
you get Hayden coming back full time here is as
Darth in the suit, opposite of.

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
But again we get in Soca though, so you you can.
You don't get to work, but he's gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Get that in like flashback sequences and all that, Like
you get them more present here, and it's just the
dynamic of having them both back together, Ewan McGregor and
Hayden Christian since Revenge of the Sith. I think that's
just got some weight to it. That's got a lot
of happens, a lot of us. It's got a lot
more anticipation and excitement and surrounding him.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
I'm but the thing is, everything you're saying is my problem.
Everything that they did there they could or could still
do in Ahsoka.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
They could absolutely, but it's been done here right now,
and I think that that holds weight behind it. You
also get a Vader that I feel like we haven't
really been able to see in other versions. I mean,
I mean, he's dark and real, one and one always seen,
and he's you know, he's scary, but like here, like
he's not scary. And since where he's dragging a woman

(01:21:59):
down faced in the mud, fusing the force and snapping
a kid's neck, I've never seen anyone do that in
Star Wars before. That's next level. So I do think
that carries weight.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
And you know what also carries weight. Remember in Return
of the Jedi, when Obi Wan's like, hey, Luke, you
have to kill Darth Vader. And now the last time
Darth Vader was seeing or obi Wan saw Darth Vader
as when he had him dead to right, remember you
talk about what they do for Dave dar Vader, obi
Wan kicks his ass like cleanly, like destroys Darth Vader
he could execute Darfait. And even at this point he

(01:22:32):
has said, you know, you know, goodbye Darth. He's fully
said Anakin's dead. This Darth Vader, bad guy, guy who's
a terrorist, kills children, men, women, does a bunch of stuff,
you know, probably allows assault in the Empire. And like
some people might think now watching Return of the Jedi, knowing,
oh we want all this, oh, one could have stopped

(01:22:52):
it with one clean. Obi Wan fucking kills just a
random guy. And he not kills he cuts a guy's
arm off in a bar randomly, just because they like
he's a little rude to him, where he couldn't even.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
Just self defense. That was self defense. The guy pulled
a gun on Luke, that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
Was you know what could be doing self defending the
whole galaxy against our fate.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
Because he's not.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
It's no, no, no, it's not that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:18):
It's not that. It's different because if let's say he
he disarmed him and took him down. Now, if Vader
got back up, pulled his lightsaber out and went to
swing at obi Wan, obi Wan just turned around like
cut him in half or sliced them or something like that, that
would have been different story.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
So it was a whole fight. He was not self defense.
Was he won the fight? You execute after the fight.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
He went there as a distraction though there is a distraction.
Everything he was doing was just like Luke Skywalker in
Last Jedi all a distraction, right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
Luke was successful because he got them another day obi.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
Wan, the difference is almost successful too. He got he
got the people.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
Couldn't have ended the war at Last Jedi. Obi Wan
could have or at least really.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
Highly Palpatine's tried to kill Vader so many times. Would
have just had something. The High Inquiser would have taken
over as the new Stith Lord.

Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
Yeah, he would have sucked. Luke would have kicked his ass.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
On the death Starn the episode.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Four, Episode four, the Inquiser dies the old obi Wan.
I'm telling you, he takes them, you know, like they
have no problem. Like that can't be Taylor. That is
a sacrilege. Bad thing they did the whole that fight.
They could have done anything. Why did they not make
anybody just stop? We want They grabbed Vader. They literally
had a Vader and be like, yeah, beat you and
I'm gonna walk away, and then again for him return Jed.

(01:24:34):
I said no Luke, you have to kill your you
have to be the one that kills your dead. He
could have done it, so they broke. That's why.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
That's why, Well the Obi Wan knew. He's like, you
have to be the one to defeat d happened.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
He was gonna kick Anakin's ass and he'd see the
errors of his ways, something like that. It's gotta be
a loss.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
I feel like I've just heard people just rave about
this show. I can't know if I can see it
as a loss.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
Yeah, you in the mirror, like Green Golflin, we liked
the show. You remember that accident that Darth Vader had.
I can't. Yeah, I gave you a Soka and issues
I can't give you we want after our conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:25:21):
It's a bad batch for me. Give me, give me
this one, Give me this one.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
No, if flash Jedi and rides the Skywalker and the loss,
this isn't the loss. There's no way this is a win.
And you know what, you know what your soul's not.
This could have been much bigger. Reva all this stuff again,
I chased after a Sith in the Tadoeing deserts.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
No, it wasn't a sith she was. She got absolutely
schooled when she faced Vader. She got absolutely fucking schooled.
And she was injured too, so no wonder she was
not going to be doing well going after these guys.
And Peru is a beast, absolutely just going to town.

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
I can't, you can't, you can't tell me you want
to see. I think running away from a city.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
On a public general kind of audience scale here at
GA scale. I think that when that trailer came out
and that investors meeting and it was like, oh my god,
it's O we want and you get that original John
Williams theme kicking in here duel a fades, everyone was
just on cloud nine and I think everyone tuned in
because what did you say? This is aside from this
is the number one uh Star Wars live action show

(01:26:24):
with Disney Plus that's a win.

Speaker 1 (01:26:27):
When business wise, but did it?

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
That's that's a win.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
But we we said that last Jedi Rids Skywalker, you
could say the same thing Rice Rice Skywalker when they
had that first Teazer and at the end when he
had Palpatine, like when Luke's like no one's ever really
gone and the laugh happened, we thought, oh, this is
gonna be great, the laughs happening, JJ's back.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
But then this is a Force Awakens win Befoce Wakens.
It was like, well over a billion, well over what
rid Skywalker?

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
Mandalorian is the Force Awakens when Mandalorian is the first
live action show that gets people very exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:27:01):
Yeah, okay, I'll agree with that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
If they do more, they'll be one. We hear rumors
of season two maybe they can save it, but like
they it, it's I think more equivalent to Last Jedi
and Rise of Skywalker as far as had big hype,
big success, but what happened after the fact was not
not ideal. You know, you know Ian's grating it. Mm
hmmm hm putting that l category you know it's true.

(01:27:27):
Search your feelings, you know it's there one.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):
All right, Taylor, So read off the losses that a
fucking brutalist here, Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker, Solo, Star Wars, Story, Resistance,
The Bad Batch, Tales of the Above, Bot Acolyte, and
Obi Wan.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
So that's nine. How many wins do we got? Got?

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
Force Awakens, Rogue One, Rebels, Clone Wars, Visions, Mandalorian, and
or Skeleton Crew to Soka Oh my god, it's it's
nine nine.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
That is so crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
They got a perfect fifty to fifty ratio.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
And like me and people because I'll say, Taylor can
see the list, but I not brought the list at all,
bring up to a share screen. I hate, not brought
the list at all during this whole podcast. So I
was like trying to angle, like, oh, let's get the numbers.
So it's like, and you know what, I wow, that's crazy.
But you know what, in all honesty, like to describe

(01:28:31):
the last ten years of lucasfilm, I feel like fifty
to fifty is not like a bad like for some people.
They they would think that's like we're giving them too
much credit, right, But I feel like from maybe our standpoint,
because I think you MEI would definitely switch where there's
some stuff you'd have win, I'd have lost. But I
feel like we'd both easily say that, like fifty to
fifty is pretty accurate for the past ten years what

(01:28:54):
they've been doing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
When you agree, I'd say, so yeah, i'd agree. So yeah,
if we if we include that cartoon adventure, that's a win.
So it makes the wins. You got sixty.

Speaker 1 (01:29:06):
Forty technically, but Kathleen. If you were say, hey, Kathleen,
what do you think? What do you think the young
Jedi interested for the branch? You go, what's the young adventure?
I challenge somebody please when they're interviewing Kathleen Kennedy, ask
her what she thinks about that and see if she

(01:29:28):
has any idea with the Young Jedi venturess. There's no
idea that she doesn't have a hand in that at all.
But uh, well, there you goal is show and we
have did so. I guess really, you know, we said
in ten years, but maybe we'll revisit. Maybe we'll have
to revisit af malin Grogu sooner because that'll be a tiebreaker.
So maybe we will because we need a tiebreaker. See
if that's a win or a loss. I think if

(01:29:49):
it's a big success and it shows that, hey people
watch TV shows and pay for the movies, great. If
it just falters for a number of reasons, then obviously
it's a loss. So there you go. Oh as we
deem it right now, Kathy and crew, Dave John, everybody
else have done a fifty fifty percent job. Is that good?
Is that bad? I don't know. I guess that's in

(01:30:10):
the eyes of the beholder. We'd have to see what
happens the next ten years of what I just a
filony led one would do. It's fifty to fifty. I
don't know, but yeah, I'm glad we broke that broke
this down and hopefully, you know, let us know if
you like this. Hopefully we'll try not to make it
to another six years before we do this again. Not
saying it's going to become a regular spinoff show again,
don't get me wrong, But had a good time busting

(01:30:31):
us down, Taylor, you.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
Know it was good. Always enjoy some heated debates when
it comes to Star Wars.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
Yeah, there you go. Well, ladies and gentlemen, Happy GV
ten year, Happy bring this back, and until you're here
from us next time, May the forest be with you
always

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