August 3, 2023 • 34 mins
Paul Levy discusses his latest book Undreaming Wetiko: Breaking the Spell of the Nightmare Mind-Virus.
The concept of “wetiko” in Native American culture refers to a mental virus that explains the destructive behavior and evil happening globally. Paul Levy suggests that the solution to combat this mind-virus and heal ourselves and the world is found within wetiko itself.
Levy explores how experiencing triggering events, getting hurt, or suffering can provide insight into the workings of wetiko. This understanding can then transform our difficulties into moments of awakening. He uncovers how unaddressed ancestral trauma can be the root cause of wetiko and how it gets carried through families. Levy also sheds light on the wounded healer/shaman archetype, which is currently prevalent in humanity’s collective subconscious. Recognizing this archetype can aid us as we navigate the descent into the unconscious and the limbo between our past and future worlds.
We talk about
Drawing on the work of C. G. Jung, Rudolf Steiner, Henry Corbin, Wilhelm Reich, and Nicolas Berdyaev, the author introduces the inner guide—a daemon/angel that lives within us as an ally in our encounters with the daemonic energy of wetiko. He explores how to cultivate “symbolic awareness” (interpreting events in our lives symbolically—like a dream) as a path to creating meaning, which alchemically transmutes the poison of wetiko into medicine for healing the psyche.
www.awakeninthedream.com
The concept of “wetiko” in Native American culture refers to a mental virus that explains the destructive behavior and evil happening globally. Paul Levy suggests that the solution to combat this mind-virus and heal ourselves and the world is found within wetiko itself.
Levy explores how experiencing triggering events, getting hurt, or suffering can provide insight into the workings of wetiko. This understanding can then transform our difficulties into moments of awakening. He uncovers how unaddressed ancestral trauma can be the root cause of wetiko and how it gets carried through families. Levy also sheds light on the wounded healer/shaman archetype, which is currently prevalent in humanity’s collective subconscious. Recognizing this archetype can aid us as we navigate the descent into the unconscious and the limbo between our past and future worlds.
We talk about
- Daemons vs. angels
- Escaping the matrix
- Blind spots in our unconscious
- Non-local – no 3D time
- The dangers of organized religion
- How your genius was turned against you
- The family curse
- Child abuse
- Quantum Physics and Spirituality
- Techno-virus and Wetiko – Artificial Intelligence
- Owning our creativity
- The inner disease of the soul
Drawing on the work of C. G. Jung, Rudolf Steiner, Henry Corbin, Wilhelm Reich, and Nicolas Berdyaev, the author introduces the inner guide—a daemon/angel that lives within us as an ally in our encounters with the daemonic energy of wetiko. He explores how to cultivate “symbolic awareness” (interpreting events in our lives symbolically—like a dream) as a path to creating meaning, which alchemically transmutes the poison of wetiko into medicine for healing the psyche.
www.awakeninthedream.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:55):
Welcome to it over the consciousness transformingPodcasts for exceptional twenty sun free living folks.
We have one of my favorites back, Paul Levi. It's back with
us today and we're going to talkabout his newest book on Dreaming Latigo,
Breaking the Spell of Nightmare mind Virus. And you know, I think this
is, in my opinion, hisbest book to date because he really helps
(01:18):
you understand what's going on today andyou can figure out how you want to
fit into that energy. But heprovides a lot of information for you to
relieve yourself of the mind virus.So listen up and see how it works
for you. Now, the informationshare don't get over. It uses intuitive
(01:38):
and pragmatic insight to help you shiftyour consciousness to break through the blocks and
release energy that is no longer needed. Yes, we're going to help you
let go of the BS that's holdingyou back. But you guys know I
always ask are you truly ready to? And by the way, folks,
BS is belief system a bit aboutme for my new listeners into a dive
stence birth or a third generation intoa too. With over three decades of
(02:00):
experience supporting people to break through theBlox along their path. I'm a strategist
for personal and professional transformation, revealingcutting edge information that enables you to prosper
and thrive. I spent twenty fivesuccessful years in corporate America as an executive
sales professional, and I am thefounder of Healing Visions Ministries and the Northern
(02:21):
California Children's Education Network, a fiveO one C three nonprofit. I provide
consultations and healings in all areas oflife that heal the mind, body spirit
connection, allowing you to live yourvery best life. My clients tell me
that I keep it real while providingthem with accurate information to a system along
their journey as a spirit leaving ahuman existence. But they also say,
(02:44):
if you really don't want to know, don't ask Monique. My background includes
a doctorate metaphysics, ricky master teacheror dating minister, and clinical hypnotherapists.
So whether you are stressed, depressed, or are possessed, I can hope
to find out more about in theservices I offer. A Go to my
website and that's on the Chapman dotcom and I invite you to like me
(03:07):
and follow me on Facebook and LinkedInmy guest today. A pioneer in the
field of spiritual emergence, Paul Levyis a wounded healer in private practice,
assisting others who are also awakening tothe dreamlike nature of reality. He has
offered authored three books on the Weatigomind virus, the most recent being the
(03:30):
book we're talking about today on DreamingWatigo. He is the founder of the
Awakened in the Dream community in Portland, Oregon, and he is an artist
who is deeply seeped in the workof CG. Young and has been a
Tibetan Buddhist practitioner for almost forty years. And you can check him out at
(03:52):
his website and that is Awakened inthe Dream dot com. And welcome back,
Paul. Yeah, Hi, I'mso happy to be here with you.
Thank you for the invite. Oh, you're welcome. I'm so glad
that you decided to come back soreal quick. For people who might not
have listed the other shows that you'vebeen on here on this podcast. What
(04:15):
is watigo, Well, what ticois. It's a Native American term and
it really on the one hand,it's this cannibalistic spirit. You could think
of it as the spirit of evil. But I point out that it's a
quantum phenomena. So you can conceivea bit like a mind virus. It's
a very simple way, but Ipoint out that it's a quantum phenomena and
(04:35):
holographically and coded within this mind virusis not only the deepest evil, but
it's actually helping us to wake upand to evolve. And the thing people
hear about a mind virus and theythink, oh, that's all new,
ag. But what it's basically sayingis that the source and the solution of
(04:57):
the collective madness that's playing out allover our world is to be found within
our psyche. And that's a nobrainer. And so this mind virus,
it operates through the blind spots inour unconscious and through the projective tendencies of
the mind in such a way thatwe entrance ourselves. And so if we're
not consciously expressing our own our owncreative genius, this mind virus plugs in
(05:24):
to our creative spirit and turns itagainst us because it has no creativity at
all, but it's a master impersonator. It puts us on. Even in
the apocryphal text, they talk aboutwhat Tico they call it the counterfeiting spirit.
Every spiritual tradition throughout history has beenpointing at what Tico. For example,
when the Constanata books the Carlos Constanatabooks, Carlos's teacher, he doesn't
(05:47):
have the name Watico, but hecalls it the predator. He says,
this is the topic of topics.There is nothing more important than this,
and I fully agree. That's whyI've written three books about it, because
if we don't come to terms whatit showing us, because Watico is this
revelation, it's actually helping us towake up. But if we don't recognize
what it's showing us, it willkill us. So that's a very short
(06:12):
form answer of what watico is.Well, it's short form, but it's
also extremely broad because it truly fitsin today's world, and it seems to
be a global incidence where people areeither awakening and deciding not to buy into
this negative mass mind consciousness, ori should say maybe even unconsciousness, or
(06:33):
they're doing the opposite. How doesthe media today and I'm talking worldwide,
just not here in the United States, play into the concept of Wautico.
Yeah, Well, the thing aboutWatico it's non local, which means it's
not bound by third dimensional space andtime, and so it operates, you
know, through all different channels inthe external world, but it's an inner
(06:55):
disease of the soul that actually operateswithin our minds too. And so the
mainstream media, you know, allthroughout the world had in a way,
has been captured by the Wautico mindvirus um, you know, by the
corporate powers that be, and it'sputting out this incredible whether you call it
this disinformation or misinformation or propaganda,but in a sense, you know,
(07:21):
the war world fighting is a waron our consciousness. So if we get
hooked by the propaganda, you know, then and then we become we power
it the propaganda to other people,like we're in possession of the truth,
and in a way we're just youknow, the algorithm is getting you know,
propagated through us. And and thenwe reinforced each other's spell to the
(07:45):
extent that we we've bought in tothe agreed upon story that the mainstream media
is propagating. And and you seethe thing about Wautica, this mind virus,
it's contagious and it operates through theblind spots and so when you know,
when you fall prey to it,and we all it's in the collective
unconscious, so we all potentially haveit in you know, in potential.
(08:09):
But then when you find other peoplewho reinforce your point of view, it
creates a collective psychosis, a psychicepidemic. And that's exactly what what Echo
is. It's a collective psychosis.And we're in the middle of a collective
madness right now, and I'm tryingto bring it. It's incredibly important to
talk about that, you know,as compared to just having it be this
(08:31):
normalized, you know situation. Okay, I don't want to address well,
I'm about to say politically, althoughit is political. Now. We have
a candidate on the Republican Party inthe United States on Donald Trump running again
for presidents, and he has hadmany I'm going to say, just keep
it cleaning unfortunate incidences that he hascaused himself. And he has a massive
(08:54):
amount of followers. How do peoplewho follow anyone to that degree, how
can they perhaps wake up from thewatigo or do or showing right? Well,
the thing is, you see,here's the thing. When somebody is
taken over by Wautico and and onceagain we all potentially have it. Is
(09:18):
if we see, oh, DonaldTrump has it or Joe Biden has it,
and we think they haven't, don'tthat perspective is showing that we've fallen
under the thrall of the bug.And so you know, the idea being
like you know, whoever Trump Bidenputin just you know, picked the name.
They're all just picking up roles intodeeper dreaming that's playing out, you
(09:41):
know in our world when somebody getstaken over via their unconscious blind spot and
then unwittingly becomes or or consciously becomesan instrument for wautico. Part of it
is that they propagate these lines,but they begin to believe their own lie.
(10:01):
And it's a psychological dynamic. Whenyou believe your own lie, you're
very convincing, you have a charisma, and that could hook other people through
their blind spots, who then supportyou. And and that just feeds in.
You see the thing about what Tiko, Yeah, it operates individually,
but you know, with evil andthis is you know, I think of
(10:22):
the work of the great psychiatrist Young. He points out that it really gains
its power and when it works inmasses. It's one thing. Yeah,
it can work through an individual,but then people, you know, when
the unconscious is consolated in a groupof people, or in a nation,
or in a species, that's wherethe evil of aatiko, you know,
(10:46):
can just run right and have afield day. And that's what we're seeing
in the world today. And justone final thing, you know, if
I had a marketing department trying topublicize my work, they couldn't do a
better job than what's happening in theworld today with you know, the whole
pandemic and the vaccine, in thewar in Ukraine and just everything and anything.
(11:07):
You know, people think, ohmy god, this is just an
abstract idea, this mind virus,or people struggling with addictions or trauma.
You know, we're all in trauma, all of that. At the bottom
of all of those things is thewatico mind virus. Okay, well,
you talk about the source of fatigois unhealed ancestral abuse. Talk to us
(11:30):
about that a little bit more deeply, please, Yeah, yea, yeah,
for sure, because I've been youknow, I've been writing about this,
you know, for decades, andI had a personal encounter with watico,
you know, over forty years agoin my family. And the story
is not important, um, butit completely destroyed my family. And then
I began to realize. So,you know, I had an awakening based
(11:52):
on the incredible suffering that I wasgoing through, and I right away got
thrown in into the you know,into these mental hospitals, and I realized,
oh, my god, the sameevil that was playing out through you
know, my family through a particularperson, was now playing out through the
system of psychiatry. And then Irealized, wait a second, this is
the same evil that's playing out throughthe body politic of the world, like
(12:16):
they were iterations of the same fractalAnd so I've been trying to figure out
what is the source of this evil, of this mind virus. You know,
it was it some sort of collectivetrauma that happened centuries ago, or
you know, people think, oh, there are these these these negative ets
and more and more, I'm convincedit's unhealed multigenerational ancestral trauma. And what
(12:39):
I mean is that to the extentthat you know, we're all in trauma
where a species having PTSD, andwhat how trauma works is that unless you
do your inner work and integrate thattrauma and heal, you're then compelled,
as if by fate, to unconsciouslyacted out on your next of kin and
(13:00):
as if giving a transmission a psychicinheritance. Then the kids they inherit the
unhealed trauma of the parents who inheritedit from the grandparents. And you know
the particular you know, all ofus where the particular blossom on the family
tree. And this is exactly inthe collected works Young talks about that evil
(13:20):
is regenerated over the generations. Andthat's exactly what I'm pointing at. To
the extent that any of us don'tdo our in a work, then we
just unconsciously pass on and transmit ourunhealed trauma to our kids. And so
the point is is that each andevery one of us where we've inherited the
(13:41):
psychic this legacy, this inheritance ofthe unhealed abuse from our species, from
our particular family. And you know, instead of feeling victimized by it and
how unfair it is, it's anincredible honor. We are playing the role
of the ones who can break thatlink in the chain. And to the
extent we heal our own trauma thatwe've inherited from our family, then that,
(14:05):
in a way I don't understand,goes back through the past and time
and even in the future and healsall the generations. So it's actually a
great opportunity for us to really ownour stuff and do our inner work and
take responsibility for, you know,our own our own predicament. Okay,
Well, you know a lot ofpeople talk about inner work and a firm
(14:28):
believer in inner work. However,I've run across people who truly very steeped
and it's okay because that's their choice. They're truly steeped in organized religion,
and in my opinion, I don'tfeel that organized religion allows someone to do
their inner work. So hopefully I'mwrong about that. And what are your
thoughts? Yeah, yeah, wellI think of young he says something and
(14:50):
I'm paraphrase, and like organized religionprotects people from having a religious experience.
You know, it's very much likethat. So I make a distinction between
religion and being spiritual because we're allby nature or spiritual because you know,
like I'm a Tibetan Buddhist practitioner,and the main thing they're talking about is
to realize your true nature, yourBuddha nature, your christ nature. They're
(15:13):
all names for the same thing.And what is our nature? What is
our true nature? Our true natureis love, is compassion, is being
creative. So when we have therealization of our nature, of our true
nature, we actually embody those qualitiesof being a loving, compassionate person who
embodies and expresses themselves creatively. Andthe more we do that, guess what,
(15:37):
the more we deepen our realization ofour nature in a positive feedback loop.
And that's experiential. We don't needany priests to sort of mediate that.
That's something that's available to all ofus. And unfortunately, in our
world, like organized religion can easilybecome like this control system and can keep
people asleep. And that's just tragicit is. But how does one how
(16:02):
can one wake up for that?Say, you know, they're interacting with
someone who was more on the spiritualside, and there they see light,
they see little sparks of light,but they're still so heavily ensconced in their
BS belief system because it's been soheavily programmed. They almost feel that it's
wrong to take another path. Sohow can you get out of that continuous
(16:26):
hamster cycle of like thinking that,Okay, there might be something different,
but I got to do the hamsterwheel because that's what's right, right,
right, And you're exactly right.We've all been programmed just being born in
this world and into our culture,and you know, with our parents,
who themselves have been programmed. Soon the one hand, the first step
is if you see somebody who's reallyembodying light, it's helpful to realize,
(16:52):
oh, wow, they're in away, it's like you're in a dream
and they're a dream character. They'rean embodied, reflective aspect of a part
of you. You're actually seeing yourown reflection of light. So instead of
keeping it separate, thinking oh,they're the ones who are carrying light and
I'm not. No, you're likelooking into this mirror and seeing your own
reflection, you know. So that'sone thing. But the other thing too,
(17:15):
I point out that, you know, there are some incredibly important points
as far as how to heal thismind virus. On the one hand,
connect with your true nature, youknow, connect with your compassion, see
the dream like nature, you know, because what I'm basically trying to get
across is that we're having a collectivelyshared dream that we are dreaming up into
(17:36):
manifestation moment by moment. That's whatI realized when I had my awakening forty
plus years ago. But the otherthing is, okay, I always want
to work with people. I alwayslike a heat seeking missile. I go
to what is your relationship to yourcreative process? And so many people have
stories, Oh, I'm stuck,I'm not creative, I'm blocked, I
(17:57):
fear resistance. And I'm really reallyinterested in in that edge because you know
that's not there and the person isn'tjust passively experiencing it. No, they're
unconsciously participating in keeping themselves stuck oridentifying with that they're not creative. And
I always try to shed light on, Yeah, what is the story?
(18:19):
What is the belief that's stopping youfrom tapping in to your true creative nature?
Because our nature is creative. That'swhat quantum physics, because I wrote
a book on quantum physics, andit was because you know, quantum physics,
I realized was offering us the solutionto the mind virus. Because quantum
physics, it was basically pointing outwe are creating our experience of ourselves and
(18:45):
of the world each and every moment. There is no one else doing that.
We are doing that. And whenyou tap into that and they have
consciousness to it, then you're ableto create your experience consciously in a way
that's in alignment with who you're discoveringyourself to be, which is that you're
not a separate self, that weactually are interdependent, interconnected with everybody.
(19:06):
And the energetic expression of that realizationis compassion. Could you make a comparison
at all between Latigo and The Matrix, And if so, what is it?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, wellexactly. I mean, that's such
a great movie that illustrates Watigo inthat, you know, to the extent,
it's like being in a dream,in a night dream and not knowing
(19:29):
the nature of your situation and thinkingthat there's dream world you're inhabiting. It
seems real and it seems objective,and you actually become entrance thinking it's separate
from you, and then you reactto the outside world and you become conditioned
by it. See, that's thepower of our creative genius. Because when
you're in a dream, if youhold this viewpoint, the dream which is
(19:49):
nothing other than a reflection of yourown mind, has no choice but to
instantaneously reflect that viewpoint, giving youall the evidence confirming the object of truth
of that viewpoint. And then youbecome even more fixed in that viewpoint in
a feedback loop and infinitem where youactually what I'm describing. So then the
(20:11):
dream will even give you more proofconfirming whatever viewpoint you're holding, which convinces
you even more. And this feedbackloop, which is a self reinforcing you
know, closed feedback loop, youliterally entrance yourself. You literally like hypnotize
yourself and think about what I'm describing. Your own genius is being turned against
you, and you know that's ina way what the matrix was showing.
(20:36):
But it's completely within our power tosee through that process. That's what my
work is about, is trying tohelp people to see through that process.
And then when you see through that, you actually that creative spirit that is
your nature becomes freed up to bechanneled instead of an a destructive way,
in a constructive way where we can, in a literal way, we can
(21:00):
dream up the world that we wantto live in. Okay Um, you
devoted a whole chapter in your bookto the Battle with our Angels. Talk
to us about that, because youwould think that the angel you wouldn't have
a battle with your angel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, Well
all the great scholars who study tosay, no, that's that's what you
(21:22):
know. Our situation is where wordsyou know, the Watico mind virus is
this daimonic energy and the word youknow, diamonic. Think about it like
as being a higher dimensional energy thatcan possess a person and they would be
oblivious that they've been taken over,and they're just an instrument for this diamonic
higher dimensional energy to come through.Now, what a diamond is, It's
(21:45):
the guiding spirit in the inner voice. It helps us find what we're here
to do. It helps us findour voice, It connects us with our
genius. And encoded in that diamondis the creative spirit. But if we
don't actually get into conscious relationship withthat diamond, it consulates negatively and becomes
a demon. So, you know, I have a whole chapter I'm saying,
(22:07):
well, you know, here's whatTiko, and this is a book
about what Tico, which which hasto do? You know, which can
consulate into this demonic energy. Well, what about shedding light on our angel,
because we all have a celestial counterpartthat's with us each and every moment.
But you know, it's powerless unlesswe actually are receptive and open and
(22:29):
take a step towards it. Thenit's just nothing but a mirror. It
then takes a step towards us.So you know, what I'm pointing out
is one of the ways of reallyhealing this mind virus is for us to
deepen our intimate relationship with this youknow, inner angel, you know,
and one can think of it asthat's our intuition, that's our inner guidance
(22:52):
system. This is exactly like whenyou study the work of Young This is
exactly what he was after he calledit the ego self access. This self
is the higher self to God within. It's like getting into an intimate relationship
with that diamond, with that innervoice, that guiding spirit, with the
self, and that actually in away protects you from the negative aspects of
(23:15):
this mind virus. Okay, Sohow can we use fatigo to truly own
our creativity, not allow someone elseto be a naysayer or block us doing
what we feel is tricked totally?That's such a great question. I mean,
I think about I just want togo back to the Bible, because
the Bible is chalk full of phrases. You know. They talk about this
(23:37):
mind blindness and they correlate it toa closed heart, and they say,
yeah, people have closed their eyes. Because the thing about what Tigo,
it's a blindness, but it's aself induced, hysterical form of blindness,
where we are literally closing our owneyes. We are choosing to turn a
blind eye. There's no one elsedoing that. We're doing that. We're
(24:00):
participating in creating our own blindness.And like I was mentioning, in the
apocryphal text, they talk about thecounterfeiting spirit, and this is word for
word, you know, describing whatTico. Now here's the thing, this
counterfeiting spirit. It has no creativity, but it's a master impersonator. It
puts us on. It offers usa false version of ourselves. And this
(24:22):
is what Young was saying was thegreatest danger of facing humanity is for us
to identify with a fictitious personality.This is exactly what he was pointing at.
So here what Tico, this mindvirus, it offers us this fictitious
identity oh, I'm wounded on traumatized. And if we're not awake in that
moment, and we identify with itsversion of ourselves, we then it has
(24:44):
us. Then it can manipulate andcontrol us. And you know, if
you think about what I'm describing,you see here what Tico It can steal
our soul. It actually doesn't evenexist. There is no such thing as
what Tico. If people are hearingthis and feeling afraid of a mind virus,
no, the mind varius feeds offof fear. There is no such
thing as watico at all, separatefrom our own mind, and yet it
(25:07):
can kill us. You see,that's the paradox. But if you think
about what I'm describing, so youknow, here what Tico can steal our
soul, but it tricks us intogiving it away. Then we identify with
who we're not. Then we forgetwho we actually are, and then we
disconnect from our creative genius. That'sa recipe for madness, and that's what
(25:29):
tico in a nutshell. Okay,well, it's interesting you said recipe for
madness. So people who are trulyconfined to an institution, psychiatric institution,
are they people who maybe have boughtinto fatigo, but other people don't understand
or are they outside of that spectrumof even on some level being able to
(25:52):
acknowledge the energy of fatigo. Yeah, well, I mean they're you know,
there are people who are really offeringyou know who. I mean,
the home mental illness thing. Imean, I went through that when I
had my awakening, and I wasso excited about what I was realizing I
was twenty four that I immediately gotthrown in mental hospitals. For that next
couple of years, probably four orfive times. I was always I was
(26:15):
thrown in mental hospitals and diagnosed,Oh there's this new discovery chemical and balance,
you know, bi polar. You'llhave this illness the rest of your
life. You'll need to be medicatedtill you're dying breath. And I just
thought, oh my god, theyhave no idea, these psychiatrists what they're
talking about. And you know,so I was fortunate in that I was
(26:36):
strong enough or blessed enough or whateverto just very quickly extricate myself from that
situation. So I think a lotof people in the psychiatric community are potentially
shamans and healers who are awakening totheir nature. But because they haven't integrated
it, they immediately get pathologized.And when you're awakening, you know,
(26:56):
out of a trance, you're insuch a vulnerable, fragile state, and
when authority figures, when they pathologizeyou, it literally can make you sick.
It made me sick, and oncethen I became sick, then that
served as evidence confirming to these idiotpsychiatrists, oh well, our diagnosis is
correct. It was like they wereputting me under a spell. And unfortunately,
(27:18):
I think there are definitely people whoare part of the psychiatric community who've
bought into their illness and then they'relike hooked on medication and are on the
backwards of psychiatry. And its tragicbecause they might be the ones of us
who are actually awakening and are steppinginto being shamans, but they're being destroyed
(27:40):
by psychiatry. Interesting how another levelof control is almost like organized religion,
but not being called organized religion.Yeah, you mentioned earlier quantum physics,
and you know, it's kind ofa buzzword and some people understand it,
some people don't. But how canwe utilize quantum physics as a spiritual path
(28:02):
yeah, yeah, Well, Ipoint out in my quantum Physics book that
quantum physics has unwittingly promoted itself tobecome a spiritual path and it's offering us
to medicine for what tico Because thinkabout it. Okay, before quantum physics,
scientists thought they were just passively observingthis objective world trying to understand it.
(28:22):
Then quantum physics, a little bitover a century ago, comes into
the world, comes into our minds, and actually empirically proves again and again
there is no such thing as anobjective world. There's no such thing that
as an objective anything. It's justan idea in your mind with no carlin
in reality. In other words,quantum physics had proven that the act of
(28:42):
observing this universe actually influences the universeobserved. And I should just point out
that's just like a dream. Andwhat that's pointing out is that the act
of observation is creative. And that'sthe rabbit hole that I go through,
go down in my book, becausewhen you realize that, you begin to
realize the unimaginingly vast creative agency thateach one of us have. But if
(29:06):
we're unconscious of it, that creativepower gets outsourced, and then the powers
that be or this state, they'remore than happy to assume and to use
our own creative genius against us.And that's actually what's happening. So quantum
physics in essence, and I'm nophysicist at all, but quantum physics has
proven, absolutely bounded out that weare having a collective lea share, a
(29:30):
dream that we are dreaming up momentby moment. Now, the typical academic,
corporate physicists are not trained to recognizethis, so it's undeniable. There's
no disagreement at all that quantum physicsis the greatest discovery at rint all of
history, in the realm of science. The controversy is what does it mean?
How do we interpret it? Becauseit's so radical, you know that
(29:53):
it typically a discovery of this radicaltakes centuries to begin to integrate into the
unconscious of species. And I'm pointingout that quantum physics is showing us,
it's empirically proving to us that weare having a collective dream. And this
is what every spiritual tradition is pointingout. That's why in the Bible,
how often does Christ say awaken myeah, if you believe that story in
(30:18):
the book. Okay, before Ilet you go, I have to talk
about watigo in technology, especially focusingin on AI. So talk to us
about that in your thoughts. Yeah, well, you know, I mean,
I think we've all been more andmore becoming a little bit more fluid
in AI. And this is anexample. The same thing with the discoveries
(30:41):
and quantum physics. They can belike tapped in for good or for evil,
and the same thing with AI.You know, it can make our
lives incredibly better. But if itgets in the hands of people who aren't
morally you know, sort of developed, it can be used to either create
power over others. And so youknow, many people, I know,
(31:06):
the thing they think is the greatestthreat to humanity, you know, is
AI. But I point out fromthe dreaming point of view, I mean,
it's a known thing psychologically. Whensomebody is right at edge, you
know, and they're like, youknow, say they're in a dream and
they're at the edge of a cliffor in the corner. There's no way
out there, double bound. It'sa no win situation. So often individually
(31:27):
in that person's process, that's whenthey actually have this lucid moment, then
they have a revelation or an insight, and I'm pointing out we as a
species, we might be dreaming thatup. Collectively, we are pushing ourselves
right to the edge of our cliff, you know, to this cliff where
we're clearly destroying ourselves. You know, we're backed into a corner. And
(31:49):
I'm pointing out, just like anindividual, this might be the very thing
that creates enough pressure in the alchemicalvessel of the human psyche for us to
actually start awakening. Okay, well, I've really enjoyed our time together.
You always bring such illumination and ofinformation to the audience. Why don't you
(32:12):
share with us a prolove wisdom forthe unions to take with them. Yeah,
for sure. Well, I pointout, I think the biggest book
in the biggest chapter in the bookis about that. You know, we
basically are all shamans who are beingcalled to be a shaman, and a
shaman is the wounded healer, anda shaman is somebody who actually takes on
the illness of the person they're workingwith, of the world or the community
(32:35):
they're in, and they literally fallill, they experience the illness as an
inside job. And so we areall dreaming up this collective madness and we're
you know, we're affected by itand infected by it and made sick by
it. But when you contextualize yourexperience instead of just pathologizing yourself, oh
wow, I feel brain fog,I feel traumatized. You know, I
(32:59):
don't feel creative. Understand that you, in your personal experience might be actually
subject of the experiencing the very maladythat our collective species is suffering from.
And then if you can carry thatillness that you're now experiencing subjectively within yourself,
if you can experience that in away to connect you back with your
(33:22):
wholeness, that's what a shaman does. And then by you doing that energetically,
you're actually carving that path in thecollective unconscious and making it easier for
other people to also connect you backto their wholeness. And that's what this
is all about, because that's themajor archetype activated in the collective unconscious is
(33:43):
the shamanic archetype, where the shaman, when they're called makes the descent into
the underworld, into the darkness ofthe unconscious where they actually had this death
rebirth experience, and that's exactly whatwe're going through. Very well said,
it is exactly what we're going through. All. I appreciate your time today.
I appreciate all the information that you'rebring to illuminate the world on our
(34:06):
spiritual path. So thank you verymuch for being with me today. Sure,
I so appreciate you know, reallybig your abody, so really thank
you so much, no problem.And to the audience, we thank you
and we are extremely appreciative of yoursupport. And to everyone, please remember
that the most important choice that youmake is what you choose to make important.
(34:28):
Consider making the masterful choice of undreamingLatigo a lond the blessings might love
to all got back.
Welcome to it over the consciousness transformingPodcasts for exceptional twenty sun free living folks.
We have one of my favorites back, Paul Levi. It's back with
us today and we're going to talkabout his newest book on Dreaming Latigo,
Breaking the Spell of Nightmare mind Virus. And you know, I think this
is, in my opinion, hisbest book to date because he really helps
(01:18):
you understand what's going on today andyou can figure out how you want to
fit into that energy. But heprovides a lot of information for you to
relieve yourself of the mind virus.So listen up and see how it works
for you. Now, the informationshare don't get over. It uses intuitive
(01:38):
and pragmatic insight to help you shiftyour consciousness to break through the blocks and
release energy that is no longer needed. Yes, we're going to help you
let go of the BS that's holdingyou back. But you guys know I
always ask are you truly ready to? And by the way, folks,
BS is belief system a bit aboutme for my new listeners into a dive
stence birth or a third generation intoa too. With over three decades of
(02:00):
experience supporting people to break through theBlox along their path. I'm a strategist
for personal and professional transformation, revealingcutting edge information that enables you to prosper
and thrive. I spent twenty fivesuccessful years in corporate America as an executive
sales professional, and I am thefounder of Healing Visions Ministries and the Northern
(02:21):
California Children's Education Network, a fiveO one C three nonprofit. I provide
consultations and healings in all areas oflife that heal the mind, body spirit
connection, allowing you to live yourvery best life. My clients tell me
that I keep it real while providingthem with accurate information to a system along
their journey as a spirit leaving ahuman existence. But they also say,
(02:44):
if you really don't want to know, don't ask Monique. My background includes
a doctorate metaphysics, ricky master teacheror dating minister, and clinical hypnotherapists.
So whether you are stressed, depressed, or are possessed, I can hope
to find out more about in theservices I offer. A Go to my
website and that's on the Chapman dotcom and I invite you to like me
(03:07):
and follow me on Facebook and LinkedInmy guest today. A pioneer in the
field of spiritual emergence, Paul Levyis a wounded healer in private practice,
assisting others who are also awakening tothe dreamlike nature of reality. He has
offered authored three books on the Weatigomind virus, the most recent being the
(03:30):
book we're talking about today on DreamingWatigo. He is the founder of the
Awakened in the Dream community in Portland, Oregon, and he is an artist
who is deeply seeped in the workof CG. Young and has been a
Tibetan Buddhist practitioner for almost forty years. And you can check him out at
(03:52):
his website and that is Awakened inthe Dream dot com. And welcome back,
Paul. Yeah, Hi, I'mso happy to be here with you.
Thank you for the invite. Oh, you're welcome. I'm so glad
that you decided to come back soreal quick. For people who might not
have listed the other shows that you'vebeen on here on this podcast. What
(04:15):
is watigo, Well, what ticois. It's a Native American term and
it really on the one hand,it's this cannibalistic spirit. You could think
of it as the spirit of evil. But I point out that it's a
quantum phenomena. So you can conceivea bit like a mind virus. It's
a very simple way, but Ipoint out that it's a quantum phenomena and
(04:35):
holographically and coded within this mind virusis not only the deepest evil, but
it's actually helping us to wake upand to evolve. And the thing people
hear about a mind virus and theythink, oh, that's all new,
ag. But what it's basically sayingis that the source and the solution of
(04:57):
the collective madness that's playing out allover our world is to be found within
our psyche. And that's a nobrainer. And so this mind virus,
it operates through the blind spots inour unconscious and through the projective tendencies of
the mind in such a way thatwe entrance ourselves. And so if we're
not consciously expressing our own our owncreative genius, this mind virus plugs in
(05:24):
to our creative spirit and turns itagainst us because it has no creativity at
all, but it's a master impersonator. It puts us on. Even in
the apocryphal text, they talk aboutwhat Tico they call it the counterfeiting spirit.
Every spiritual tradition throughout history has beenpointing at what Tico. For example,
when the Constanata books the Carlos Constanatabooks, Carlos's teacher, he doesn't
(05:47):
have the name Watico, but hecalls it the predator. He says,
this is the topic of topics.There is nothing more important than this,
and I fully agree. That's whyI've written three books about it, because
if we don't come to terms whatit showing us, because Watico is this
revelation, it's actually helping us towake up. But if we don't recognize
what it's showing us, it willkill us. So that's a very short
(06:12):
form answer of what watico is.Well, it's short form, but it's
also extremely broad because it truly fitsin today's world, and it seems to
be a global incidence where people areeither awakening and deciding not to buy into
this negative mass mind consciousness, ori should say maybe even unconsciousness, or
(06:33):
they're doing the opposite. How doesthe media today and I'm talking worldwide,
just not here in the United States, play into the concept of Wautico.
Yeah, Well, the thing aboutWatico it's non local, which means it's
not bound by third dimensional space andtime, and so it operates, you
know, through all different channels inthe external world, but it's an inner
(06:55):
disease of the soul that actually operateswithin our minds too. And so the
mainstream media, you know, allthroughout the world had in a way,
has been captured by the Wautico mindvirus um, you know, by the
corporate powers that be, and it'sputting out this incredible whether you call it
this disinformation or misinformation or propaganda,but in a sense, you know,
(07:21):
the war world fighting is a waron our consciousness. So if we get
hooked by the propaganda, you know, then and then we become we power
it the propaganda to other people,like we're in possession of the truth,
and in a way we're just youknow, the algorithm is getting you know,
propagated through us. And and thenwe reinforced each other's spell to the
(07:45):
extent that we we've bought in tothe agreed upon story that the mainstream media
is propagating. And and you seethe thing about Wautica, this mind virus,
it's contagious and it operates through theblind spots and so when you know,
when you fall prey to it,and we all it's in the collective
unconscious, so we all potentially haveit in you know, in potential.
(08:09):
But then when you find other peoplewho reinforce your point of view, it
creates a collective psychosis, a psychicepidemic. And that's exactly what what Echo
is. It's a collective psychosis.And we're in the middle of a collective
madness right now, and I'm tryingto bring it. It's incredibly important to
talk about that, you know,as compared to just having it be this
(08:31):
normalized, you know situation. Okay, I don't want to address well,
I'm about to say politically, althoughit is political. Now. We have
a candidate on the Republican Party inthe United States on Donald Trump running again
for presidents, and he has hadmany I'm going to say, just keep
it cleaning unfortunate incidences that he hascaused himself. And he has a massive
(08:54):
amount of followers. How do peoplewho follow anyone to that degree, how
can they perhaps wake up from thewatigo or do or showing right? Well,
the thing is, you see,here's the thing. When somebody is
taken over by Wautico and and onceagain we all potentially have it. Is
(09:18):
if we see, oh, DonaldTrump has it or Joe Biden has it,
and we think they haven't, don'tthat perspective is showing that we've fallen
under the thrall of the bug.And so you know, the idea being
like you know, whoever Trump Bidenputin just you know, picked the name.
They're all just picking up roles intodeeper dreaming that's playing out, you
(09:41):
know in our world when somebody getstaken over via their unconscious blind spot and
then unwittingly becomes or or consciously becomesan instrument for wautico. Part of it
is that they propagate these lines,but they begin to believe their own lie.
(10:01):
And it's a psychological dynamic. Whenyou believe your own lie, you're
very convincing, you have a charisma, and that could hook other people through
their blind spots, who then supportyou. And and that just feeds in.
You see the thing about what Tiko, Yeah, it operates individually,
but you know, with evil andthis is you know, I think of
(10:22):
the work of the great psychiatrist Young. He points out that it really gains
its power and when it works inmasses. It's one thing. Yeah,
it can work through an individual,but then people, you know, when
the unconscious is consolated in a groupof people, or in a nation,
or in a species, that's wherethe evil of aatiko, you know,
(10:46):
can just run right and have afield day. And that's what we're seeing
in the world today. And justone final thing, you know, if
I had a marketing department trying topublicize my work, they couldn't do a
better job than what's happening in theworld today with you know, the whole
pandemic and the vaccine, in thewar in Ukraine and just everything and anything.
(11:07):
You know, people think, ohmy god, this is just an
abstract idea, this mind virus,or people struggling with addictions or trauma.
You know, we're all in trauma, all of that. At the bottom
of all of those things is thewatico mind virus. Okay, well,
you talk about the source of fatigois unhealed ancestral abuse. Talk to us
(11:30):
about that a little bit more deeply, please, Yeah, yea, yeah,
for sure, because I've been youknow, I've been writing about this,
you know, for decades, andI had a personal encounter with watico,
you know, over forty years agoin my family. And the story
is not important, um, butit completely destroyed my family. And then
I began to realize. So,you know, I had an awakening based
(11:52):
on the incredible suffering that I wasgoing through, and I right away got
thrown in into the you know,into these mental hospitals, and I realized,
oh, my god, the sameevil that was playing out through you
know, my family through a particularperson, was now playing out through the
system of psychiatry. And then Irealized, wait a second, this is
the same evil that's playing out throughthe body politic of the world, like
(12:16):
they were iterations of the same fractalAnd so I've been trying to figure out
what is the source of this evil, of this mind virus. You know,
it was it some sort of collectivetrauma that happened centuries ago, or
you know, people think, oh, there are these these these negative ets
and more and more, I'm convincedit's unhealed multigenerational ancestral trauma. And what
(12:39):
I mean is that to the extentthat you know, we're all in trauma
where a species having PTSD, andwhat how trauma works is that unless you
do your inner work and integrate thattrauma and heal, you're then compelled,
as if by fate, to unconsciouslyacted out on your next of kin and
(13:00):
as if giving a transmission a psychicinheritance. Then the kids they inherit the
unhealed trauma of the parents who inheritedit from the grandparents. And you know
the particular you know, all ofus where the particular blossom on the family
tree. And this is exactly inthe collected works Young talks about that evil
(13:20):
is regenerated over the generations. Andthat's exactly what I'm pointing at. To
the extent that any of us don'tdo our in a work, then we
just unconsciously pass on and transmit ourunhealed trauma to our kids. And so
the point is is that each andevery one of us where we've inherited the
(13:41):
psychic this legacy, this inheritance ofthe unhealed abuse from our species, from
our particular family. And you know, instead of feeling victimized by it and
how unfair it is, it's anincredible honor. We are playing the role
of the ones who can break thatlink in the chain. And to the
extent we heal our own trauma thatwe've inherited from our family, then that,
(14:05):
in a way I don't understand,goes back through the past and time
and even in the future and healsall the generations. So it's actually a
great opportunity for us to really ownour stuff and do our inner work and
take responsibility for, you know,our own our own predicament. Okay,
Well, you know a lot ofpeople talk about inner work and a firm
(14:28):
believer in inner work. However,I've run across people who truly very steeped
and it's okay because that's their choice. They're truly steeped in organized religion,
and in my opinion, I don'tfeel that organized religion allows someone to do
their inner work. So hopefully I'mwrong about that. And what are your
thoughts? Yeah, yeah, wellI think of young he says something and
(14:50):
I'm paraphrase, and like organized religionprotects people from having a religious experience.
You know, it's very much likethat. So I make a distinction between
religion and being spiritual because we're allby nature or spiritual because you know,
like I'm a Tibetan Buddhist practitioner,and the main thing they're talking about is
to realize your true nature, yourBuddha nature, your christ nature. They're
(15:13):
all names for the same thing.And what is our nature? What is
our true nature? Our true natureis love, is compassion, is being
creative. So when we have therealization of our nature, of our true
nature, we actually embody those qualitiesof being a loving, compassionate person who
embodies and expresses themselves creatively. Andthe more we do that, guess what,
(15:37):
the more we deepen our realization ofour nature in a positive feedback loop.
And that's experiential. We don't needany priests to sort of mediate that.
That's something that's available to all ofus. And unfortunately, in our
world, like organized religion can easilybecome like this control system and can keep
people asleep. And that's just tragicit is. But how does one how
(16:02):
can one wake up for that?Say, you know, they're interacting with
someone who was more on the spiritualside, and there they see light,
they see little sparks of light,but they're still so heavily ensconced in their
BS belief system because it's been soheavily programmed. They almost feel that it's
wrong to take another path. Sohow can you get out of that continuous
(16:26):
hamster cycle of like thinking that,Okay, there might be something different,
but I got to do the hamsterwheel because that's what's right, right,
right, And you're exactly right.We've all been programmed just being born in
this world and into our culture,and you know, with our parents,
who themselves have been programmed. Soon the one hand, the first step
is if you see somebody who's reallyembodying light, it's helpful to realize,
(16:52):
oh, wow, they're in away, it's like you're in a dream
and they're a dream character. They'rean embodied, reflective aspect of a part
of you. You're actually seeing yourown reflection of light. So instead of
keeping it separate, thinking oh,they're the ones who are carrying light and
I'm not. No, you're likelooking into this mirror and seeing your own
reflection, you know. So that'sone thing. But the other thing too,
(17:15):
I point out that, you know, there are some incredibly important points
as far as how to heal thismind virus. On the one hand,
connect with your true nature, youknow, connect with your compassion, see
the dream like nature, you know, because what I'm basically trying to get
across is that we're having a collectivelyshared dream that we are dreaming up into
(17:36):
manifestation moment by moment. That's whatI realized when I had my awakening forty
plus years ago. But the otherthing is, okay, I always want
to work with people. I alwayslike a heat seeking missile. I go
to what is your relationship to yourcreative process? And so many people have
stories, Oh, I'm stuck,I'm not creative, I'm blocked, I
(17:57):
fear resistance. And I'm really reallyinterested in in that edge because you know
that's not there and the person isn'tjust passively experiencing it. No, they're
unconsciously participating in keeping themselves stuck oridentifying with that they're not creative. And
I always try to shed light on, Yeah, what is the story?
(18:19):
What is the belief that's stopping youfrom tapping in to your true creative nature?
Because our nature is creative. That'swhat quantum physics, because I wrote
a book on quantum physics, andit was because you know, quantum physics,
I realized was offering us the solutionto the mind virus. Because quantum
physics, it was basically pointing outwe are creating our experience of ourselves and
(18:45):
of the world each and every moment. There is no one else doing that.
We are doing that. And whenyou tap into that and they have
consciousness to it, then you're ableto create your experience consciously in a way
that's in alignment with who you're discoveringyourself to be, which is that you're
not a separate self, that weactually are interdependent, interconnected with everybody.
(19:06):
And the energetic expression of that realizationis compassion. Could you make a comparison
at all between Latigo and The Matrix, And if so, what is it?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, wellexactly. I mean, that's such
a great movie that illustrates Watigo inthat, you know, to the extent,
it's like being in a dream,in a night dream and not knowing
(19:29):
the nature of your situation and thinkingthat there's dream world you're inhabiting. It
seems real and it seems objective,and you actually become entrance thinking it's separate
from you, and then you reactto the outside world and you become conditioned
by it. See, that's thepower of our creative genius. Because when
you're in a dream, if youhold this viewpoint, the dream which is
(19:49):
nothing other than a reflection of yourown mind, has no choice but to
instantaneously reflect that viewpoint, giving youall the evidence confirming the object of truth
of that viewpoint. And then youbecome even more fixed in that viewpoint in
a feedback loop and infinitem where youactually what I'm describing. So then the
(20:11):
dream will even give you more proofconfirming whatever viewpoint you're holding, which convinces
you even more. And this feedbackloop, which is a self reinforcing you
know, closed feedback loop, youliterally entrance yourself. You literally like hypnotize
yourself and think about what I'm describing. Your own genius is being turned against
you, and you know that's ina way what the matrix was showing.
(20:36):
But it's completely within our power tosee through that process. That's what my
work is about, is trying tohelp people to see through that process.
And then when you see through that, you actually that creative spirit that is
your nature becomes freed up to bechanneled instead of an a destructive way,
in a constructive way where we can, in a literal way, we can
(21:00):
dream up the world that we wantto live in. Okay Um, you
devoted a whole chapter in your bookto the Battle with our Angels. Talk
to us about that, because youwould think that the angel you wouldn't have
a battle with your angel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, Well
all the great scholars who study tosay, no, that's that's what you
(21:22):
know. Our situation is where wordsyou know, the Watico mind virus is
this daimonic energy and the word youknow, diamonic. Think about it like
as being a higher dimensional energy thatcan possess a person and they would be
oblivious that they've been taken over,and they're just an instrument for this diamonic
higher dimensional energy to come through.Now, what a diamond is, It's
(21:45):
the guiding spirit in the inner voice. It helps us find what we're here
to do. It helps us findour voice, It connects us with our
genius. And encoded in that diamondis the creative spirit. But if we
don't actually get into conscious relationship withthat diamond, it consulates negatively and becomes
a demon. So, you know, I have a whole chapter I'm saying,
(22:07):
well, you know, here's whatTiko, and this is a book
about what Tico, which which hasto do? You know, which can
consulate into this demonic energy. Well, what about shedding light on our angel,
because we all have a celestial counterpartthat's with us each and every moment.
But you know, it's powerless unlesswe actually are receptive and open and
(22:29):
take a step towards it. Thenit's just nothing but a mirror. It
then takes a step towards us.So you know, what I'm pointing out
is one of the ways of reallyhealing this mind virus is for us to
deepen our intimate relationship with this youknow, inner angel, you know,
and one can think of it asthat's our intuition, that's our inner guidance
(22:52):
system. This is exactly like whenyou study the work of Young This is
exactly what he was after he calledit the ego self access. This self
is the higher self to God within. It's like getting into an intimate relationship
with that diamond, with that innervoice, that guiding spirit, with the
self, and that actually in away protects you from the negative aspects of
(23:15):
this mind virus. Okay, Sohow can we use fatigo to truly own
our creativity, not allow someone elseto be a naysayer or block us doing
what we feel is tricked totally?That's such a great question. I mean,
I think about I just want togo back to the Bible, because
the Bible is chalk full of phrases. You know. They talk about this
(23:37):
mind blindness and they correlate it toa closed heart, and they say,
yeah, people have closed their eyes. Because the thing about what Tigo,
it's a blindness, but it's aself induced, hysterical form of blindness,
where we are literally closing our owneyes. We are choosing to turn a
blind eye. There's no one elsedoing that. We're doing that. We're
(24:00):
participating in creating our own blindness.And like I was mentioning, in the
apocryphal text, they talk about thecounterfeiting spirit, and this is word for
word, you know, describing whatTico. Now here's the thing, this
counterfeiting spirit. It has no creativity, but it's a master impersonator. It
puts us on. It offers usa false version of ourselves. And this
(24:22):
is what Young was saying was thegreatest danger of facing humanity is for us
to identify with a fictitious personality.This is exactly what he was pointing at.
So here what Tico, this mindvirus, it offers us this fictitious
identity oh, I'm wounded on traumatized. And if we're not awake in that
moment, and we identify with itsversion of ourselves, we then it has
(24:44):
us. Then it can manipulate andcontrol us. And you know, if
you think about what I'm describing,you see here what Tico It can steal
our soul. It actually doesn't evenexist. There is no such thing as
what Tico. If people are hearingthis and feeling afraid of a mind virus,
no, the mind varius feeds offof fear. There is no such
thing as watico at all, separatefrom our own mind, and yet it
(25:07):
can kill us. You see,that's the paradox. But if you think
about what I'm describing, so youknow, here what Tico can steal our
soul, but it tricks us intogiving it away. Then we identify with
who we're not. Then we forgetwho we actually are, and then we
disconnect from our creative genius. That'sa recipe for madness, and that's what
(25:29):
tico in a nutshell. Okay,well, it's interesting you said recipe for
madness. So people who are trulyconfined to an institution, psychiatric institution,
are they people who maybe have boughtinto fatigo, but other people don't understand
or are they outside of that spectrumof even on some level being able to
(25:52):
acknowledge the energy of fatigo. Yeah, well, I mean they're you know,
there are people who are really offeringyou know who. I mean,
the home mental illness thing. Imean, I went through that when I
had my awakening, and I wasso excited about what I was realizing I
was twenty four that I immediately gotthrown in mental hospitals. For that next
couple of years, probably four orfive times. I was always I was
(26:15):
thrown in mental hospitals and diagnosed,Oh there's this new discovery chemical and balance,
you know, bi polar. You'llhave this illness the rest of your
life. You'll need to be medicatedtill you're dying breath. And I just
thought, oh my god, theyhave no idea, these psychiatrists what they're
talking about. And you know,so I was fortunate in that I was
(26:36):
strong enough or blessed enough or whateverto just very quickly extricate myself from that
situation. So I think a lotof people in the psychiatric community are potentially
shamans and healers who are awakening totheir nature. But because they haven't integrated
it, they immediately get pathologized.And when you're awakening, you know,
(26:56):
out of a trance, you're insuch a vulnerable, fragile state, and
when authority figures, when they pathologizeyou, it literally can make you sick.
It made me sick, and oncethen I became sick, then that
served as evidence confirming to these idiotpsychiatrists, oh well, our diagnosis is
correct. It was like they wereputting me under a spell. And unfortunately,
(27:18):
I think there are definitely people whoare part of the psychiatric community who've
bought into their illness and then they'relike hooked on medication and are on the
backwards of psychiatry. And its tragicbecause they might be the ones of us
who are actually awakening and are steppinginto being shamans, but they're being destroyed
(27:40):
by psychiatry. Interesting how another levelof control is almost like organized religion,
but not being called organized religion.Yeah, you mentioned earlier quantum physics,
and you know, it's kind ofa buzzword and some people understand it,
some people don't. But how canwe utilize quantum physics as a spiritual path
(28:02):
yeah, yeah, Well, Ipoint out in my quantum Physics book that
quantum physics has unwittingly promoted itself tobecome a spiritual path and it's offering us
to medicine for what tico Because thinkabout it. Okay, before quantum physics,
scientists thought they were just passively observingthis objective world trying to understand it.
(28:22):
Then quantum physics, a little bitover a century ago, comes into
the world, comes into our minds, and actually empirically proves again and again
there is no such thing as anobjective world. There's no such thing that
as an objective anything. It's justan idea in your mind with no carlin
in reality. In other words,quantum physics had proven that the act of
(28:42):
observing this universe actually influences the universeobserved. And I should just point out
that's just like a dream. Andwhat that's pointing out is that the act
of observation is creative. And that'sthe rabbit hole that I go through,
go down in my book, becausewhen you realize that, you begin to
realize the unimaginingly vast creative agency thateach one of us have. But if
(29:06):
we're unconscious of it, that creativepower gets outsourced, and then the powers
that be or this state, they'remore than happy to assume and to use
our own creative genius against us.And that's actually what's happening. So quantum
physics in essence, and I'm nophysicist at all, but quantum physics has
proven, absolutely bounded out that weare having a collective lea share, a
(29:30):
dream that we are dreaming up momentby moment. Now, the typical academic,
corporate physicists are not trained to recognizethis, so it's undeniable. There's
no disagreement at all that quantum physicsis the greatest discovery at rint all of
history, in the realm of science. The controversy is what does it mean?
How do we interpret it? Becauseit's so radical, you know that
(29:53):
it typically a discovery of this radicaltakes centuries to begin to integrate into the
unconscious of species. And I'm pointingout that quantum physics is showing us,
it's empirically proving to us that weare having a collective dream. And this
is what every spiritual tradition is pointingout. That's why in the Bible,
how often does Christ say awaken myeah, if you believe that story in
(30:18):
the book. Okay, before Ilet you go, I have to talk
about watigo in technology, especially focusingin on AI. So talk to us
about that in your thoughts. Yeah, well, you know, I mean,
I think we've all been more andmore becoming a little bit more fluid
in AI. And this is anexample. The same thing with the discoveries
(30:41):
and quantum physics. They can belike tapped in for good or for evil,
and the same thing with AI.You know, it can make our
lives incredibly better. But if itgets in the hands of people who aren't
morally you know, sort of developed, it can be used to either create
power over others. And so youknow, many people, I know,
(31:06):
the thing they think is the greatestthreat to humanity, you know, is
AI. But I point out fromthe dreaming point of view, I mean,
it's a known thing psychologically. Whensomebody is right at edge, you
know, and they're like, youknow, say they're in a dream and
they're at the edge of a cliffor in the corner. There's no way
out there, double bound. It'sa no win situation. So often individually
(31:27):
in that person's process, that's whenthey actually have this lucid moment, then
they have a revelation or an insight, and I'm pointing out we as a
species, we might be dreaming thatup. Collectively, we are pushing ourselves
right to the edge of our cliff, you know, to this cliff where
we're clearly destroying ourselves. You know, we're backed into a corner. And
(31:49):
I'm pointing out, just like anindividual, this might be the very thing
that creates enough pressure in the alchemicalvessel of the human psyche for us to
actually start awakening. Okay, well, I've really enjoyed our time together.
You always bring such illumination and ofinformation to the audience. Why don't you
(32:12):
share with us a prolove wisdom forthe unions to take with them. Yeah,
for sure. Well, I pointout, I think the biggest book
in the biggest chapter in the bookis about that. You know, we
basically are all shamans who are beingcalled to be a shaman, and a
shaman is the wounded healer, anda shaman is somebody who actually takes on
the illness of the person they're workingwith, of the world or the community
(32:35):
they're in, and they literally fallill, they experience the illness as an
inside job. And so we areall dreaming up this collective madness and we're
you know, we're affected by itand infected by it and made sick by
it. But when you contextualize yourexperience instead of just pathologizing yourself, oh
wow, I feel brain fog,I feel traumatized. You know, I
(32:59):
don't feel creative. Understand that you, in your personal experience might be actually
subject of the experiencing the very maladythat our collective species is suffering from.
And then if you can carry thatillness that you're now experiencing subjectively within yourself,
if you can experience that in away to connect you back with your
(33:22):
wholeness, that's what a shaman does. And then by you doing that energetically,
you're actually carving that path in thecollective unconscious and making it easier for
other people to also connect you backto their wholeness. And that's what this
is all about, because that's themajor archetype activated in the collective unconscious is
(33:43):
the shamanic archetype, where the shaman, when they're called makes the descent into
the underworld, into the darkness ofthe unconscious where they actually had this death
rebirth experience, and that's exactly whatwe're going through. Very well said,
it is exactly what we're going through. All. I appreciate your time today.
I appreciate all the information that you'rebring to illuminate the world on our
(34:06):
spiritual path. So thank you verymuch for being with me today. Sure,
I so appreciate you know, reallybig your abody, so really thank
you so much, no problem.And to the audience, we thank you
and we are extremely appreciative of yoursupport. And to everyone, please remember
that the most important choice that youmake is what you choose to make important.
(34:28):
Consider making the masterful choice of undreamingLatigo a lond the blessings might love
to all got back.
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