Arne Johnson: The Devil Made Me Do It

This week, Niamh brings another spootacular episode to the table.

Arne Johnson killed Alan Bono in 1981. The resulting court case was the first time demonic posession was used as a defense tactic.

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Me Hi Megan, And that wasmy terrible attempt at Mike Myer's music do
do like you guys needed to seeit. She was doing like a full
DJ set here and one hand onthe headphones, the other hand twist in
the record. Sleigh, Sleigh,how are you all? How are you

(00:34):
guys? So this weink I havewhat I would describe as a spooky episode,
but it's not really spooky, butlike you know, it's what a
movie is based off of, soyou're gonna like it. Yeah. So,
if y'all remember, was it lastyear I covered the real life Conjuring

(01:00):
movie. I think it was lastyear, earlier this year, one or
the other. Eh, it wassome time ago, at some point,
at some point in our recording history, I talked about the Conjuring movie.
Well, I have another installment fory'all. This one is the Devil Made
Me do it? Break it downfor me, Nave, let's go and

(01:25):
don't go see the movie. Themovie is terrible, probably one of the
worst in the Conjuring franchise. Yes, I would definitely say one of the
worst in the Conjuring franchise, butit's not the worst. It's not the
worst. It is what is that. The last Insidious movie that came out
is ass it's so bad. Ihaven't seen it, but and Carlin was

(01:48):
like, they freaking reused scenes fromthe I didn't even notice. Yeah,
Carlin was like, they reused acouple of jump scares, and he was
like, that's the fucking cop out, you know what I mean. Did
he say anything about the like themonsters get up in it, the villains
get up? No, but hefinds that villain super hilarious anyway, Like

(02:12):
in the first Insidious he laughs whenhe pops up on screen and is like,
he is funny. But like inthe movie, there's a whole bunch
of different ghosts and stuff and itis like a thirteen year old got their
hands and special effects make up.Oh god, it is so bad.
I was. It actually put meoff through the whole movie because it is

(02:34):
just terrible. God. But thenthis movie that we're going to talk about
today, in its own right,if it was a standalone movie, it's
fine, But as part of theConjuring series, it's not. The Conjuring
I think just started off on sucha high. The first two were so
good, and then one of theAnnabelles was really good. I feel it

(03:00):
was the middle one. I feellike it was the I can't remember their
names. I don't know the roommatesthat originally had Annabelle. No, is
that it the one where they're ona firm? Oh my god? And
doesn't I can't remember I'm getting themone that I'm on about is So it's

(03:20):
like, if you were to goin chronological order of the Annabelle's, it
would be the first one, likeit's the one about how she How do
I describe this? There's Annabelle ComesHome, which was terrible. There was
Annabelle. I can't remember their namesany hoodles. It's like the second Annabelle

(03:45):
movie. That one's very good,and the first two Conjuring movies are very
good. And that's pretty much thatare all in the top tier. Wait,
hold on, Paranormal Activity? Isthat is that in this it was
not really in the same like itvision, but it's in the same world
because it's demons. I I rememberI went to see Paranormal Activity in the

(04:09):
cinema for my birthday one year,and I freaking shit myself because it was
like for my like tenth birthday ortwelfth birthday or some shit, and I
was like that. But then whenI rewatch it, I was like,
that wasn't scary. It wasn't thefirst one, I don't think. I
think it was like the second oneor the third one that we went to
go see, the one with allthe the one with all the fucking witches

(04:31):
or nuns or whatever. Yeah,I don't know, Yeah I don't.
I don't like that one either.I don't think that's a very good one.
But the very first original one Iloved. I when I first saw
I loved it and I was like, Wow, that's so cool. And
then I learned that they had multipledifferent endings and I was like, nah,

(04:53):
that just ruins it, Like itruined the whole Is that real?
Even though you knew, oh yeah, you knew it wasn't real, but
it also was like, oh,but imagine. And then it was like,
oh yeah, but there's like fivedifferent endings and you're like you've killed
it. Because that was the thingwhen it came out in the movies,
was like it's this is all basedon a real story and whatever. But

(05:16):
they can say that, like themovie The Strangers. I remember somebody telling
me it's just based on the writerwas home alone one night and somebody knocked
on his door and he just didn'tanswer it, and that was it.
And I think it's based off realmurders where they have masks on. Yeah,
that's based off a real murder.I'm pretty sure it was. Oh

(05:36):
my god, yeah, yeah,I know it. That's somebody. Okay,
I was lied to anyway. Butthey can say anything. Is basically
they can take a like somewhat truestory and they can literally spin it to
fit whatever the way they want itand then be like, this is based

(05:58):
off true events, because technically isbased off of it's like inspired by That
is what made me like really scaredgoing to see paranormal activity was the whole.
It's based on a true story.And this is found footage. Yeah,
which is what we have here,a based off of a true story
event. And I'm about to tellyou the true story laid on me.

(06:18):
Ernie Cheyenne Johnson was born in nineteensixty two. Not much is really known
about his childhood, Like could barelyfind where he was born, you know,
okay it was there was not muchat all. He was described as
very friendly and no one really hada bad word to say about him.

(06:40):
He would often take his sister's fishing, and he would spend time with them.
I think his mother had I thinkhe had. He either had two
or three sisters, and then hismother also took in two nieces, so
two of his cousins, oh okay, to care for as well. He
sang in the church choir. Hewas you know, he's a little boy.

(07:05):
His parents divorced when he was justfour years old. His mother struggled
to support Oh yeah, here,his mother struggled to support him and his
two sisters and a niece. She'dtaken the niece in like full time,
like she basically got custody of Denise. I don't know what the story is

(07:25):
behind us, couldn't find it anywhere. There's it is what it is.
Ernie had attempted to live with hisdad for a little while when he was
like roughly I think thirteen or fourteen. He was like entering his like teenage
years, and it didn't really govery well, and he ended up having
to move back home to his mom'sat sixteen years old. He dropped out

(07:46):
of high school to get a jobto try help his mother in supporting the
family because he was like, I'mthe man of the house, you know,
like I'm a help out best Ican let the girls get like their
education and stuff. Oh, bless, now, this is a big gross.
When Ernie was just twelve years old, he met Debbie Glatzel. She

(08:07):
was working in a supermarket and sheaccidentally knocked over a display and he went
over to help her. Debbie wasnineteen years old. Oh no, I
hate everything about that. And shebecame close friends with Ernie's mother, and
then a few years later, Ernieand Debbie began dating despite their seven year

(08:28):
age gap. No, it's unclearwhen, Like, it's unclear when they
started dating, Like, it's unclearon whether it was when he was fifteen
or when he was seventeen. Theysay it was from I'm pretty sure they
say they started dating when he wasseventeen. But then are they just saying

(08:50):
that because that's when he was legal. Yeah, and either way, it's
weird. You met him when hewas twelve, Yeah, exactly. You
watched him grow up and go throughlike childhood and majorhood. Weird people that
watch somebody grow up and then goafter them. Yeah. Debbie moved in

(09:11):
with Ernie and his family, andit was so that they could save for
a house of their own. Theywere like super duper in love. In
nineteen eighty, the couple found asmall house to rent. They accepted it,
and the plan was that Ernie andDebbie, along with Ernie's family,
would move into this new house.They were all extremely exciting excited about moving

(09:33):
in, and Debbie even described itas quote, it was like my dream
house. I thought we could builda beautiful life there. The dream sadly
didn't last too long. When Debbie, Ernie, and a couple of her
family all went to the house toclean, to clean it and prepare it

(09:54):
for life moving in. Yeah,you know, see what needed to be
fixed or you know, oh thatjazz when something unexpected happened. Oh no.
Debbie's brother, David, who waseleven years old, was remarkably close

(10:15):
with Ernie, and he often wouldplay with his sister's boyfriend, and you
know, he he loved them.He was like, he's part of the
family. So he wanted to gowith the family and Debbie and Ernie to
go clean the house. So they'relike, yeah, you come alone,
Yeah, yeah, come on,let's go. When they got to the

(10:39):
house. They discovered that the previoustenants had left behind some furniture. I
think there was like a sofa,like a table, and then I think
there was a bed left in themaster bedroom. Okay, David was asked
to clean the master bedroom and ashe was doing so, he all of

(11:03):
a sudden ran screaming from the house. So naturally all the family go out
after him, and they're like,what's wrong, What's going on? Why
did you just literally leave the housescreaming? Yeah, creepy. He was
claiming that he saw an old manwho was burnt and blacklocking like who was
all like charcoaled, you know,like, and he said that the figure

(11:26):
was telling him to beware and toget out of the house. That's nightmare
fuel m. In the new documentary, he said that he was pushed onto
the bed. I hate that herefused to go back into the house.
He waited until everybody was finished doingtheir jobs. Like he waited outside until

(11:46):
everybody was finished in the house,and then they all went home. They
were like telling Debbie's mother about whathad happened and what he had claimed to
see. And while like Debbie andErnie and Debbie's mother were all talking.
David came out of his room,saying that he was still having visions of

(12:07):
the old man, but now hecould hear his voice. David said that
he could see that the old manhad an animal trapped in the house and
that he was torturing it. Hecould see the animal scratching at the front
door, trying to get out ofthe house. Every time David talked about
what he was seeing, like whatthese visions were, he would add more

(12:30):
and more details. Yeah, justleave the kid there, move house.
David said that the old man hadhooves for feet, and sometimes there would
be more men around him. Hoovesfor feet. That's not very practical,
No, it's really not. Debbiewas starting to feel a little uneasy about
the move, but they had putquite literally all of their savings into it,

(12:56):
so they couldn't really afford to backout. They'd like paid like two
months rent in advanced, like plusthe deposit and you know for other things
as well. So they were like, they kind of can't really get out
of this. That's the thing.Everybody just says, like, oh,
just get up and move. Peoplecan't afford to just get up and move.

(13:16):
Literally the next day, Ernie andDebbie went back to the house to
continue setting up for their move whenthey noticed scratches on the back of the
front door. Mixed in with whatDavid had been saying the night previous,
they were just like, ah,fucking shit, yeah, of course.
Ernie said that when he saw thescratches quote, I was starting to really

(13:39):
question, well, maybe something definitelyis wrong here. Despite having paid their
two months rent upfront, the coupledecided that they just could not move into
the house. Ernie's mother wasn't soconvinced about what was going on, and
she wasn't so convinced that there wasactually anything to worry about. She had
given her landlord her notice of themove, and she was relying on moving

(14:03):
in with Ernie and Debbie. SoErnie's mother moved into the house with her
two daughters and her niece, despiteErnie and Debbie refusing. Ernie and Debbie
were left with no other choice butto move in with Debbie's family to try
to save some more money, becauseobviously they put so much into the move.
Debbie then claimed that David told herthat the old man that he was

(14:26):
seeing was angry at him for tellingErnie and Debbie not to move into the
house. He began calling the oldman the beast, which is what I'll
be referring to it as now on. He said that the beast wanted to
take his soul and that the beastwould push him and scratch him. Ernie
later claimed that quote the fear inthis child was overwhelming. Something was going

(14:52):
wrong, and I believed him.The next day, Ernie and Debbie decided
to take David out for the day, like, took him to like the
park and did some things with them. They were like, look, this
kid is after seeing something something atthe house and so after freaking them out,

(15:13):
and now he's having nightmares. Andso they were like, we'll take
him out and we'll, you know, cheer them up. Yeah, because
even if he didn't see anything,the child is still absolutely terrified. Exactly
exactly. Everything was going really welluntil they got back to the house and
David like, they're in Debbie's homehousenow. And they got back to the

(15:35):
homehouse and David refused to go backinside. It took a lot of convincing
to get him to go into thehouse. They finally managed to get him
in, and then later that night, David was attacked by an unseen force
according to Ernie and David, orErnie and Debbie. So this happened in
Debbie's homehouse, not in the newrented house, not in that in their

(15:58):
homehouse. Why didn't he go intothe homehouse. So he was claiming that
the beast had followed him from therented house to his homehouse, and now
the beast was mad at him becausehe told Debbie and Ernie not to move
in, and so now the beastwanted his soul so once, even if
he was at any house, thebeast was following him to any house.

(16:22):
Yeah, okay, I get it. So like the beast had like latched
onto him, not the house anymore. Ernie said that the scariest part to
me was seeing David go through thiswith nothing there to do it. David
was having convulsions. He would bescreaming and cursing, which they claimed was

(16:45):
not like him. He was beingpushed and beaten around the room. He
was getting aggressive, which was alsoout of character, and the family really
struggled with what to do about it. Like they were like, what is
going on, Like this is notDavid, Like he doesn't curse, he
doesn't shout or scream or you know. So they decided that they should go

(17:10):
to the church to speak to apriest, and they asked the priest if
he could perform an exorcism or anyother kind of ritual. So around this
time, the church are kind ofbeing like, s No, no,
we don't do exorcisms. What that'snot us. That's just a stray movie.

(17:30):
Yeah, just a silly little movie. Nobody pay attention to that.
No, don't have a popular andpop culture. We only watched that movie
recently, The Exorcist, and it'ssuch it holds up, It holds up,
it does genuinely. I was surprised. I thought I wasn't gonna like
it, but I really do.For a movie that was made in the

(17:51):
seventies, like is good and holdsup really well. Yeah, and then
when you look into like the backstoryand stuff of it and you're like,
wow, Okay. The priest thatDavid's family went to for the exorcism denied
their request, but said that hewould come to the house and he would
do a blessing and that he wouldalso do some research for them. So

(18:15):
he did just that. He comesto the house, he blesses it,
and then he's like, light somecandles, pray some harder, and that
should save David. Saul, he'sgot to pay the trolls tall literally.
The Glassals did do just that,but nothing seems to change. David's behavior

(18:36):
didn't get any better, and hecontinued to feel attacked by the beast.
The family claimed that at one pointDavid began speaking Latin, which he didn't
know, so they did not understandhow he could be speaking ith fear his
body would be contorted and he wouldbe screaming at the top of his lungs

(18:57):
in pain. He stid reciting paragraphsfrom Paradise Lost, which is a poem
about the devil and how he fellfrom heaven. And again he's eleven slash
twelve. He he doesn't yeh,he's not reciting poems, but he's also

(19:17):
not reciting poems about heaven and helland you know, yeah. The family
decided that they had to go backto the priest and ask for help again.
So the priest agreed to go tothe house and do another blessing on
David, and after he finished,he told the Glattels that it wasn't enough
and that they should reach out toa couple who specialized in paranormal activities.

(19:41):
Who could it be? Who couldit be? He recommended Ed and Lorraine
Warren. The Warrens arrived at thefamily home, and Lorraine immediately noted that
the blessing performed by the priest didn'twork and that David was still very much
possessed by the demais. Lorraine feltthere was a creature in that child's body.

(20:04):
She was very dramatic. She believedthat the creature was there to cause
harm to David and to the Glattofamily, including Ernie. The Glastols informed
Ed and Lorraine how David's behavior wasgetting increasingly more aggressive and way out of
control. Debbie felt that the beastwas attached to the house and not to

(20:27):
the family and wanted to move,but Lorraine was like, no, no,
sweetie, that's not how that works, and then basically was like,
that's the difference between haunted people andhaunted houses. Insightful, Lorraine, Thank
you, Lorraine. What would wedo without you? The beautiful bastard.

(20:48):
The Warrens felt that the only thingthat would help David was if the church
performed in exorcism. It takes monthsfor the church to review a case before
they agreed to do any exorcisms,so they filled out a form like paperwork.
They filled out paperwork to request anexorcism off the church. I wonder

(21:12):
is that paperwork available online for meto fill out? Oh my god,
can you fill out an exorcism formand stop it? The first thing that
comes up is the Archdiocese of Washingtonrequest in exorcism, and then you have

(21:33):
the United States Conference of Catholic BishopsExorcism Amazing Exorcism Protocol. Google. That's
how to apply for exorcisms. TheArchdiocese of Toronto says, first you should
contact your priest and then your priestwill meet with the individual to cern their

(21:56):
needs. I don't have a priest. Step one already gone. If further
assistance is necessary, the priest isto write the Chancellor of Spiritual Affairs outlining
the matter with medical or other supportingdocuments. Once the case has been received

(22:17):
by that office, the file willbe opened and have written. A request
for assistance will be made to arelevant expert so that a psychosocial spiritual assessment
may be completed. That was nota nice sentence for somebody with a lisp.
Once the assessment has been returned,the case file is referred to the
chancellor for discernment before proceeding. TheChancellor in consultation with the exorcist will decide

(22:42):
on one of the three actions.One, the case should be referred to
the exorcist for his discernment and recommendations. Two, the case requires additional medical
and or psycho psychological supporting documentation beforeproceeding further. Three, the case does
not require action, and the individualis referred back to the parish for ongoing

(23:03):
pastoral care. And once the recommendationof the exorcist has been obtained, the
Chancellor in consultation with the exorcist willprovide guidance to the parish priest who made
the initial contact with the office.This is a lot of hassles. Do
you know what I'd rather just be, to be honest, So David was

(23:25):
only getting worse. So Ed toldthe family that he could perform a minor
exorcism, which is basically just abunch of prayers used to break the influence
on evil and sin in a person'slife. He's eleven, what evil in
sin does he do? So,while the family were waiting for Ed to

(23:45):
like come back and perform this minorexorcism. David's behavior was getting like beyond
out of control at this point,ed in Lorraine, and of course it's
ed and Lorraine claimed that they've seenDavid levitating off his bed, and this
is when they decided that they weregoing to record all of their interactions with

(24:07):
David. There are several recordings thatthe Warrens have of David saying but bizarre
things. Look, I heard oneof them on the documentary and I couldn't
help but laugh a little because init, he's like, I think I
sent it to you. What doeshe say? Douchebag? Oh yeah,
he called. He's like, you'rea douchebag. And I'm like, I'm

(24:29):
sorry, a demon is using muchfouler language than that. Douchebag is,
so like, we're on the playground. Honestly, on one recording, you
can hear David saying, quote,Cheyenne dies at work tomorrow, which that's
Ernie's middle name. So the nextday at work, Ernie reportedly fell twenty

(24:53):
feet out of a tree. Hesuffered a minor knee injury, according to
Debbie, but there is absolute norecords of this, Like, I mean
anywhere. Hm, what did hework as he did? I don't know.
Basically, from my understanding, hewas like a gardener and like trimmed

(25:17):
trees. Oh okay, So likehe'd be up in the tree, you
know, like fixing it up,making it great up. Yeah. And
so he fell out of the tree. Nobody else like, it's just Ernie
and Debbie are like, he fellout of the tree, and he hurt
his knee. He scraped his kneereal bad, and they're like, and

(25:38):
and David last night said that Shadies at work tomorrow. I don't know.
I feel like, if a demonwants you to die at work tomorrow,
you're gonna die at work tomorrow.Yeah, You're not gonna just injure
your knee. Yeah. Ernie wouldoften challenge the demon to get out of
David's body, like he'd be like, get out of him, leave him

(26:00):
alone, and the Warrens would belike, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa. What are youdoing challenging a demon? Ernie? Come
on, and Ernie Powell, whatare you doing. On another recording belonging
to the Warrens, Aaron Ernie isin the background yelling tell tell him I'll
fight him. Come out and fightme like a man. I'll beare knucklebacks

(26:22):
you. Honestly, you're gonna you'rethreatening to You're threatening to fight a demon.
You're threatening to fight a demon.You're not gonna win, babe.
Sorry, but this demon is likehas like thousands of years of experience against
you, and like ed and therain are like, bro, the fuck

(26:45):
did you just do so? Soonafter this, Ernie began claiming that he
was seeing a figure and that hewas experiencing paranormal activities. Debbie claimed that
one day, while they were talkingwith another, Ernie out of nowhere began
growling and his whole body began shaking. She said that she knew it wasn't

(27:07):
Ernie, and he has no memoryof this. Okay, I'll just take
their word for it. By theend of nineteen eighty, David's behavior was
so out of control that he attemptedto stab Ernie with a knife that he'd
taken from the kitchen. He claimedthat the beast had called on more demons
to possess his body, and Lorraine, at a later point, claimed that

(27:30):
David was possessed by not one,not two, and not three demons.
But forty three demons. Forty three, he had his own ten, he
had his own board of directors,Like, how do you get together?
Hew? Does one demon? Howdoes I want to know? Did the

(27:52):
beast like go to his friends?Was it a pyramid scheme? I have
got this kid, and he's alittle fucking shit and he ruined my plans
to possess a whole damn house.So now I need all of y'all's help
to bring this motherfucker down. Andalso his brother in law threatened to fight

(28:14):
me, So we got to teachthese little shits what we got. Can
you imagine that is like a splitscreen with like forty seven It's like a
zoom meeting at Zoom meeting. Ifwe could meet tomorrow nine am and we'll
loop back around by EOD nine am, doesn't work for me. I have
plans to possess this other kid.Look, if you can make it for

(28:38):
at least two that would be great. That would be great, great.
I'll clear my schedule for the restof the day. So, according to
Ed and Lorraine and to the glattalfamily, priests came to the family home
to perform a second blessing on thehouse. And Ed helped perform a minor

(28:59):
exit. The family claimed that Davidhad four minor exorcisms, with one stopping
his heart and something happened to administerCPR. The family believed that the minor
exorcisms worked and that the demons wereexpelled from his body. They said that
things began to settle, but Davidhe was still having a few behavioral issues

(29:25):
and he was suffering a few psychologicalissues. But they're like the demons were
going to do but you would youwould expect it if you were actually possessed
by forty odd demons. Everything wasreturning to normal for the Glattals. Ernie
and Debbie were getting more work againbecause like everyone kind of halted life to

(29:48):
watch David and make sure that hewas okay, and nothing like awful happened
to him. So Debbie got anew job and a kennel. This is
where she meets Alan Bono Bono wheneveryou want to call him. Everyone in
the documentary was calling him Bono,and it was really annoying me because his
name is spelt the same as Bonofrom the singer of You Two. So

(30:10):
why we don't know who you're talkingabout? We don't claim that man Alan
was the manager of the kennel.Ernie claimed that despite everything calming down for
David, he was still having visionsof the demon and he was feeling strange.
He believed that challenging the demons inDavid had worked and it caused them
to jump into his body, andthat something had latched on to him.

(30:34):
Debbie said that Ernie would enter atrance like state where he would begin growling,
and he would say that he sawthe beast, and Ernie would claim
that he would never have any memoryof this. Imagine if your partner just
started growling. I would piss myselflaughing, and then I would walk away

(30:55):
from pure and utter embarrassment and belike, and we're okay. I'm okay.
I don't need a grown man thatrails at people. If you're growling
at strangers, you got a problem. Yeah, yeah, that's not good.
We're going to take a quick outbreakand we're back. Growl Oh brah

(31:22):
means I love you in Dinosaur.Sorry, I'm just having visions. She's
like, he's growling at people,and it's Buddy is shaking and he's just
like In January nineteen eighty one,Ernie and Debbie move into an apartment that
is owned by Debbie's boss Alan.He's like the manager of the apartment complex.

(31:45):
I think it's his sister that ownsit, and he just like runs
it. Ernie's two sisters and hiscousin moved in with them as well.
According to Ernie's mother, him andAlan got on really well and they spent
a lot of time together. However, on February sixteenth, nineteen eighty one,

(32:07):
Ernie, Alan, Debbie, andErnie's sisters all went to a cafe
called the Mugan Munch. According tothe witnesses, at the restaurant, Alan
and Ernie had about fourteen to fifteenglasses of wine between them. This is
for breakfast and no, it's likeevening time. They have like a bottle

(32:28):
and a half of wine each justat dinner. It's been done. The
party was at the cafe. Youknow, they're all having a good time.
They're there for about three hours justliving it up, and then they
all leave the restaurant or a cafewhatever, and they go back to the
apartment. At about six thirty pm. According to Ernie and Debbie, Alan

(32:52):
made an inappropriate comment about Debbie,which made her uncomfortable. This led to
a ribe between Alan and Ernie andthings got heeded between the two of them.
They ended up outside fighting outside andit turned physical. During the fight,
Ernie took out a five inch pocketknife and began stabbing Alan. He

(33:16):
stabbed Alan four times in the stomach. Alan fell to the ground, Ernie
dropped the knife and Ernie walked towardsthe woods. Ernie claims to have no
memory of this. Debbie ran insiderang her father for help. Nine one
one would have worked. Two butsome of us would have called for help,

(33:42):
you know, from medical professionals.But your dad works too. Yeah.
Yeah. Debbie's dad arrives at thescene and an ambulance is called in
and around the same time, theparamedics found Alan lying on his back,
alive, but in an unbelievably badway. One of the paramedics testified that

(34:06):
at the scene of the crime,he overheard Debbie tell her father quote,
oh, daddy, he didn't meanto do it. You know how he
gets when he's been drinking. Ohoh no. Debbie's father informed the police
that it was Ernie who had stabbedAlan. Alan was taken to Danbury Hospital
where he sadly passed away from hisinjuries. Shortly after arriving, Ernie was

(34:30):
found by police roughly about an hourlater, a couple of miles from the
scene. He was arrested and chargedwith the murder of Alan Bono. He
was taken to Bridgeport Correctional Center andhis bail was set for one hundred and
twenty five thousand dollars. Soon afterErnie's arrest, though, Warrens began getting

(34:52):
involved. Of course, they talkedabout how it appeared to look like an
argument gone wrong, but it wasin fact a demonic possession. Okay.
Lorraine claimed that the demons that hadbeen in David had possessed Ernie. They
wanted to ruin Ernie's life because hehad challenged them, and they said that

(35:15):
he was possessed at the time ofhis murder. At the time of the
murder, but the demons had sinceleft his body. Oh perfect, great
timing, great, great, greattiming. Wait was it all the forty
odd It's unclear. They never sayhow many demons were in Ernie. Unintended.

(35:42):
Now, police would normally ignore suchclaims, you know, they'd be
like, okay, take your demonicpossession. And shove that up your asshole.
But the Church were alleged to havebeen involved with David's miner's minorcisms,
and so this gave the Warrens claimscredibility. The public went absolutely not over

(36:08):
what the Warrens were saying. TheCatholic Church confirmed that David's family had appealed
for an exorcism. They said thata priest was sent out to investigate whether
an exorcism was necessary, but saidpolice said priest failed to turn in his
report and he was unreachable as hewas out of the country on a mission.

(36:34):
I thought you were going to sayon holiday, and I was like,
holiday, priests deserve holidays, TomMegan, I'm sure they do.
The church refused to comment on thecase after that and never did. Like
after that radio silence, the Churchwould not confirm or deny nothing. I

(36:57):
mean, they said what they haveto say. There's not much more that
they can do. The Warrens wenton many talk shows and radio shows to
talk about Ernie's possession. They talkedabout how it was going to be the
first case in America to use possessionas defense. Ernie's court appointed lawyer would
refuse to comment on what the Warrenswere talking about. He was like not

(37:21):
having any of it, and hewas soon replaced by Martin Manella. Martin
Manella was super interested in this caseand he even took it on pro bono.
I mean, I get it becauseit's like the whole the defense is
going to be very interesting. ButI don't know, even if I was
a big shot, big time lawyer, I think I would stay fair away

(37:44):
from something like that. Yeah.On March nineteenth, nineteen eighty one,
Ernie was indicted quite literally after thejudge heard evidence, like twenty five minutes
into the indictment, the judge waslike, guy, I've heard enough,
and yeah, yeah, we're goingto trial. Okay, yeah, perfect.

(38:04):
Martin he is loving the media attentionand he's like doing interviews and shit
lawyers. Yeah, the lawyer.He told the media that he intended to
argue that Ernie's actions were caused bydemonic possession. He then set up a
fund to try raise money for thecost of Ernie's defense. He reportedly was

(38:30):
planning on like bringing in priests andlike members of the church to talk about
demonic possession, making a scene,basically making a scene, basically indeed is
correct. The media became obsessed withthe case because they really wanted to see

(38:53):
how that kind of defense would playout in a court of law. It
was unclear if the church would beasked to testify for a little while,
and Martin told the media quote,I hope the priests will have enough moral
conscious to come forward your haskan prieststo have a moral conscious in your client

(39:16):
stab a man four times and thenwalk into the woods. Okay, but
yeah, yeah, I sure hopethe priests have moral conscious The warrants talked
about how they were disappointed in thechurch because they were refusing to confirm or
deny their involvement. Meanwhile, membersof the church had commented that the claims

(39:38):
so members of the church had claimedthat claims of possession were often the result
of a mental illness that required theattention of a medical professional. Yeah,
fair enough. Can we just snapsand claps for those members of the church,
because at least somebody from the churchwas like, I mean, they're

(40:01):
probably just mentally ill. Yeah,they probably just need like professional help.
The Warrens were claiming to the mediathat they had a really close working relationship
with the Catholic Church. But onceagain the Catholic Church were like, no,
I'm not saying nothing. Maybe theydo, maybe they don't. You

(40:23):
don't know me. When Ernie's trialbegan on October twenty eighth, nineteen eighty
one, the judge refused to allowthe defense of demonic possession. Quote evidence
of demonic possession is simply not relevant. I mean, at the end of
the day, there is a mandead and you did kill that. There

(40:45):
are witnesses to say that you killedthe man. His own sisters. His
own sisters were like, yeah,he stabbed him. Yeah, there's no
refuting it. Debbie tried to saythat she didn't see him stab him,
but like his sisters were like,yeah, we saw him take out a
knife, stab him, drop theknife, and then make his way into

(41:06):
the woods. Yeah. Like thisis really just does he go into it
like a mental institution or does hego to jail. Yeah. The judge
had learned of Martin's defense in themedia, and he learned that Martin was
intending on calling priests to the standto testify to discuss demonic possession. The

(41:27):
judge felt that quote such a defensecould not be reliable and could mislead the
jury, which, yeah, likewhat does demonic possession have to do with
anything? When it boiled down toit, did he stab him? Yes?
He did? Like what more isthere to it? You know?
Like yeah, in a panic,Martin requests requested a recess because he was

(41:52):
like, I'm going to have totry to come up with the new fucking
defense m h, because my plansare fucked. So the judge is like,
yeah, sure, we'll take arecess. You come up with a
new defense, and then we'll comeback, you know, try this again.
And Martin went out to the mediathat were stood outside the courthouse and

(42:16):
was like, this judge has antiCatholic bias. Oh oh, that's not
fair, and he should disqualify himselffrom the case. Can you imagine being
the judge watching that in your chambers, You'd be like, bro, I

(42:36):
give you the recess. The prosecutionlike they had a clean case, you
know what I mean, Like theywere like Ernie killed Alan Bono in a
drunken argument gone wrong, Like yeah, what else is there to this?

(42:57):
Martin Manella was left with no otheroption but to scrap his demonic possession claim,
and he decided to argue that Erniekilled Alan in self defense of his
family. They claimed that Alan hadstarted a fight. He also said that
Alan grabbed Ernie's youngest sister, whowas nine at the time of the murder,

(43:21):
and he tried to take her intohis apartment, and that's why Ernie
stabbed him. Now, to myknowledge from my research, this didn't come
like this was the first time thatlike that had been said. Like,
there was no mention of Alan tryingto I don't know, kidnap what like.

(43:45):
Yeah, it was very roch.There was very much like grasping at
straws here, and he's not thereto defend himself from that. Literally.
Martin did still try to call someprists to the stand, and he was
warned very quickly by the judge towatch his line of questioning. When the

(44:07):
jury was going off to deliberate,the judge told them to only consider the
evidence giving at trial and to ignoreany media influence, meaning to ignore all
theory of demonic possession had no businessbeing in the courtroom and so therefore it
had no business being like questioned bythe jury. Yeah, fair enough.

(44:30):
After about fifteen minutes of deliberation,the jury was deadlocked. So the judge
was like, Hey, why don'tyou remember and talk about a case that
had happened a few years previous wherebasically the jurors had deadlocked and what ended

(44:52):
up happening is the minority just agreedwith the majority. He was like,
basically like, why don't you justtalk about that time that the minority had
respected the intelligence of the majority.Oh so, he said, you are
stupid. You are very, verystupid. The jury like, despite being

(45:14):
told not to, the jury werelike, but what if he was possessed
and that's why he did it.I don't know. Whenever you hear if
you're in a jury and you hearsomething and then the judge says not to
pay attention to it, and it'sbeen such a major part of the case,
obviously you're going to, yeah,think about it. After sixteen hours,

(45:36):
the jury found Irony guilty of manslaughterbecause they were like, he was
he was being charged with first degreemurder. But the jury were like,
no, I don't think he wentoutside in the argument with the intent of
killing him. I like, andI would agree with that, Like,
I do very Look, I don'tfully believe that he was possessed, but

(45:59):
I do think that he did notintend on killing the man. Yeah,
and I very much believe that itwas manslaughter, not like a planned out
murder. On December sixteenth, nineteeneighty one, Ernie was sentenced to the
maximum sentence, which is ten totwenty years in prison. The judge said

(46:22):
that he felt that he had noother option but to give the maximum as
Ernie just seemed to lack remorse.This upset Debbie, who yelled out that's
sick before storming out of the courthouse. There's a man dead, Debbie.
You know what's also sick, Debbie, is that your boyfriend stobbed a man

(46:44):
to death. Yeah, that ispretty sick. And then you decided to
call your father instead of he mighthave lived if you called the ambulance a
bit quicker, Yeah, exactly,because he was alive. So like,
I'm not saying it's your fault,Debbie, but also you didn't help.
Can I just imagine, right,imagine you have been stabbed, You're lying

(47:07):
on the floor, you need help. There are a bunch of people around,
because there was a few of themthere. You see one of them
pick up a phone and you're like, oh, thank god, they're getting
me help. And then you heargod Dad, alright, excuse me.
They appealed the judge's decisions soon after, but in March nineteen eighty two,

(47:27):
Ernie requested that the appeal be withdrawn. He was like, nah, I
just leave it. I accept myfate. Now this is where things get
interesting. And I think this is, to me, the most important paragraph
of this whole story. Okay,So Debbie had three brothers, the oldest

(47:52):
being Carol, and he remembers whathappened in nineteen eighty a little differently,
just dis mission, just dismission.Carl claims that when he was only he
was about fourteen fifteen. He rememberslike the years of his early teens being

(48:14):
a very upsetting time and he hada lot of feeling of helplessness as David,
who was the youngest. So hethe youngest. I think Debbie was
the oldest, and then it wasCarl, and then it was I think
his name is Alan, and thenDavid. Okay, David's emotional and mental

(48:36):
health was starting to decline. Carlclaims that David was beginning to show signs
of behavioral issues. He was strugglingwith learning disabilities in school, and Carl
claims that by nineteen eighty David wasstarting to suffer from seizures and delusions.

(48:59):
He said that his family had watchedThe Exorcist shortly before they all went over
to help clean Ernie and Debbie's newhome. Oh okay, just a fun
little fact. Not at all,anything that could influence somebody. Not at

(49:19):
all, something that would influence aneleven year old. Oh no, not
at all. He also said thatthe Warrens came to interview David, like
when they had been called and theycame, they came, and they like
interviewed David, and they questioned himabout what he was experiencing. And then
the Warrens turned to talk to theirmother, but in front of David,

(49:47):
and they talked to the mother abouthow if they don't get control of this
possession, like he'll start to shoutand spit and curse and vaults and in
front of David, and then,shocking me enough, soon after that he
started doing all of those things.Yeah, maybe a smidge bit influenced.

(50:15):
Yes. Carl talked about how hisfather was the only one. Him and
his father were the only ones tonot believe the possession. He recalled how
David had been screaming and cursing becauseof this quote unquote possession, and the

(50:39):
mother is trying to calm him down, and she's like, I'm your mother.
Come back to me, David,like you know, like fight the
devil and come back to me.And then their dad walks into the room,
picks up David yells at him tolike sit the fuck down, stop

(51:00):
what you're doing, and then hewalks out of the room and shocking me
enough, the demon listened what ademon listens to dad crazy, He stops
like what he's doing, and hejust like shut up, like and like
right, Carol is like that tome, is like solid telling, you

(51:23):
know, because everyone's afraid of theirdad, do you know what I mean?
Hmmm, And so he's like,wow, even the demon was scared
of my dad. Carol described thispart of his childhood as a living nightmare.
He said that his family was notin any way religious until all of
this started happening with David. Hisfamily believed that David's problems were all caused

(51:47):
from something spiritual, but he justfelt that his brother needed to see a
doctor. That must be a reallylonely experience as well. I know he
had his dad. But when you'relike, no, he just needs to
go see a medical professional, andthen and then and then like your mother
is like, let's go bring himto the priests. Yeah, he's got

(52:09):
demons in his blood. Yeah,it's like what No. Carl believes that
his family went out to seek thehelp of the Warrens themselves. So the
Glattals claimed that the priest referred themonto the Warrens, but Carl believes that
his family just went and found themthemselves. It's also believed that Debbie had

(52:36):
attended at least one of their seminarisbefore David was Oh okay Debbie, mm
hmm. Carl feels as though theWarrens exploited his family and only saw them
as a gold mind. Carl hadactually gone with his father to the scene

(52:57):
of the crime when Debbie had called, and he is still very much haunted
by seeing Alan Bono lying on theground dying, of course, and like
he believes that like Ernie is solelyresponsible for that, and like in the
interview, like he's like like aman died, like he killed somebody,

(53:22):
Yeah, do you know, Likeand he's like that seems to be like
forgotten. Do you know, like, hm hmm, it's the main point
of what's going on here. Yeah, And when their mother passed away,
Carol claims that he found diaries belongingto his mother in which she wrote about
how she basically was slipping sleeping pillsinto their dinner. What excuse me,

(53:49):
ma'am. That is a crime.And he recalls about how like her dinner
used to always be separate from everybodyelse's, like it used to be in
its own dish. Oh. Yes, And he's like, if she was
slipping us sleeping pills. I can'tremember the name of them he mentioned,
like a brand. He was like, if she was slipping us those,

(54:15):
especially like David who was so youngat the time, this would cause hallucinations,
like convulsions, seizures, like allall of that stuff. And so
he kind of is like, tome, that explains that. That's why

(54:36):
David believes he was possessed. Mm. But I can understand that it.
No, that's not what happened toyou. Now. David is like,
no, my mother would have neverdrugged us, but her journals say
otherwise. Mm hmm, yeah.Yeah. And after Ernie's trial was oh

(55:00):
where their mother went to Los Angeleswith the Warrens to like go on TV
to do like these TV interviews,so really drawing attention to everything. Yeah,
and the Warrens promised them a lotof money for a book deal and
told the Glassls that to make thescary, to make the story scary,

(55:22):
because that's what that's what would sell. Oh, perfect, that's great from
the Warrens. Never expected that.What So this case has never fully been
forgotten about. In nineteen eighty three, a friend of the Warrens wrote the
nonfiction like It was a friend ofthem that wrote this book, The Devil

(55:45):
in Connecticut, And it was classedas a non fiction, but they were
told to make it scary, soit's a fiction. Yeah. The book
was turned into a made for TVmovie starring Kevin Bacon. The Demon Murder

(56:06):
Case is okay, Well, ifKevin Bacon is in it, then it's
fucking scary. Ernie and Debbie gotmarried in January nineteen eighty five while he
was serving out his sentence, gotthat jail house love, and after five
years, five fricking years, Erniewas released for being a model prisoner in

(56:37):
That's not justice, It's not anysemblance of justice. In two thousand and
seven, David and Carl sued theauthor of The Devil in Connecticut, and
they felt that as children they wereexploited and that the book exploited what as

(56:58):
a whole the family went through.I mean, I get that somebody else
writes about your family. Now,David and Carl have two different opinions as
what happened in those years. Davidfeels as though his story was exploited for
entertainment and his hell like what hewent through, and you know where Carl

(57:28):
feels as though the pain that hisfamily went through and the ordeal of like
because he's like, no, mybrother was not possessed, like he just
was mentally ill and therefore, likeyou are taking advantage of like a mentally
ill kid. Mm hmm. Butunfortunately, the court favored with the author

(57:52):
as their mother had signed forms forthe author to use all of this inform
and at the time they would havebeen minors, so which is upsetting for
them because I at the end ofthe day, it's still is their story
and it's something that happened to them. Yeah, as we know, the

(58:15):
Warrens then have been turned into thismagical franchise. The conjuring, and they
released the movie The Devil Made MeDo It. Debbie passed away in twenty
twenty one. Oh okay, Ernieis still very much alive. And as

(58:35):
far as I know, none ofthe family speak. That's sad because I
guess all the drama would push youaway. Yes, and Ernie and Debbie
like fully believe he was possessed andhe did not kill Alan Bono like the

(58:57):
Devil made him do that. Carolvery much is of the belief, like,
no, you got drunk, youkilled a man. Yeah, And
you know, I'm kind of inclinedto agree with Carol. Yeah, I
kind of am too. Yeah,And I think it's very very sad that
a man's death was almost like overshadowed, do you know what I mean,

(59:24):
Like along the way, like theWarrens and the fucking lawyer lost sight of
No, he killed somebody. Yeah, there's a family out there missing somebody
right now. Yeah. And accordingto David, the Warrens like sold him

(59:46):
a dream in order to get theirbook deal, like they were like,
you're gonna be a multimillion dollar Likeyou know, you're gonna make so much
money off of this, And inthe end, the Glassals were paid something
like four thousand, five hundred dollarsand for the book, and the Warrens

(01:00:07):
were paid like hundreds of thousands.That's rough. Warrens took them for a
wild ride. The more like,the more I learn about the Warrens,
yeah, the more I don't likethem, Like probably if you listen back

(01:00:28):
on old episodes of ours, we'relike, fuck, yeah, the Warrens.
But the more, like you say, the more I learn more,
I'm like, oh no, that'sgross. Yeah, and like I do
enjoy the movies, like half ofthem are shit, but like also like
they are entertaining. Like we weretalking earlier, it's the fictional Warrens we

(01:00:49):
love literally and then like you learnthat like they literally took this family for
a fucking ride, do you knowwhat I mean? Like now it's completely
like of your own beliefs on whetheryou want to believe if David was possessed
or not, Like that's up toyou. That's your beliefs, that's you

(01:01:10):
know, mm hmmm. The Warrenssaw a family where they believed their child
was possessed, and they thought tothemselves, easy fucking money. Like Carol
talks about how like, oh,how convenient. Like the child is in
convulsions, like yelling fucking profanities likeand it's like you're gonna die, You're

(01:01:34):
gonna die. Mm And the Warrens, he's like the first thing they do
is whip out their recording devices andstart taking pictures of them. M m.
Do you know, Like he's like, instead of helping him, they
want to record them. But thenat the same time, with that having
been said, I feel like whenthere are no recordings are and there are

(01:01:59):
no picture, nobody believes say thesame thing. We were like, well,
why didn't anybody record it? Whydidn't anybody take pictures? I'm not
though, Like so in the documentaryyou can see photos, like they show
actual photos and like in a fewof the photos, like the microphones like
here, oh like it's in thechild's face yeah, right up at his

(01:02:23):
neck. Yeah, and you're like, what give him some room? Yeah,
you're like whatever is that? Likehonestly, whatever happened to David,
Like whatever it was, he neededhelp and he didn't fully get it.

(01:02:43):
Yeah. Now he like, asI said, like he is like,
no, I was possessed. Mmhmmm, Like he's he fully believes he
was and like, at the endof the day, we weren't there.
It didn't happen to us, ithappened to him. So but then I
think as well as an eleven twelveyear old, like if like Ed Warren

(01:03:09):
comes along and it's like you're possessed, You're gonna be like, Ohm,
I gonna shit, I'm possessed.Yeah. Of course. I mean,
your parents tell you something at thatage and you take it as truth as
well. So if his mother istelling him you're possessed, you had this,
you're gonna believe it too. Yeah. I also find it very telling

(01:03:30):
though that like they weren't a superreligious family and then they became one,
because Karen is like when the motheris doing all the interviews, like she
talks about her they always went tochurch and God and this and that,
and he's like, no, we'revery like we basically never went to church.
Yeah, and then he's like andthen all this started happening, and

(01:03:52):
then all of a sudden, hismother was like, Okay, church yeah.
But then in the same breath,if I did think something like that
was happening to my child, Iwo okay church yeah. Because as well
as that, like that's what moviesteach you, do you know what I
mean? Mm hmmm, like theyteach you like, oh the demons after

(01:04:15):
you. So you you you gottago to church. You gotta believe in
God. Now that's the devil mademe do it. You guys, I
would love to hear your thoughts onall of that, like all of it.
Do you think David was possessed?Do you think Ernie was possessed?

(01:04:36):
Do you think Ernie should have beensentenced to life in prison? Because I'm
done his life in prison five yearsfor murdering somebody? Are you freaking kidding
me? Yeah? It doesn't sitright with me. Like, even if

(01:04:57):
like he was possessed, it wasstill his body that murdered somebody. And
you mean to tell me that you'reonly going to do five freakin' years for
that. Yeah, there's like wekeep saying, there is a man dead,
somebody died. Debbie, Yeah,Derby, that's fucking sick. You're

(01:05:18):
sick. Okay? How old wasErnie again? You got with well,
Ernie was like nineteen when he murderedAlan Bono. So, Debbie, what's
more sick? A judge sentencing sentencinga man for a crime that he committed,

(01:05:43):
or you watching a preteen grow upand getting him with him while he
is still eighteen and you're in yourwhat twenties, you're sick, fucking freak.
Yeah, well, we really hopeyou liked this episode. If you
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(01:06:05):
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(01:07:33):
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(01:07:53):
say either. I hope you're havinga spectacular October. WHOA, well spectacular
Yeah, we'll get the big wordshe said, the S word. Oh.
I hope you're enjoying spooky season andlet us know what you're dressing up.

(01:08:14):
That's for Halloween. Okay, Well, we'll see you next week for
another spooky episode because it octop allright, see you next week. Saloncha rocking out