October 22, 2023 • 60 mins
Welcome back to part 2, the final part of Niamh's deep-dive into the crimes of Jack the Ripper. We discuss the second part of the "double event", Jack's letters, and theories on his, or her, identity.
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(00:05):
Hi, welcome back to give usmug eve. I'm Megan and I don't
really have anything to say about thisintro. Just hey back, welcome back,
miss you when you bugger. Solast week we talked about Jack the
repeal. I don't know why Imade him sound French because it happened in
(00:29):
England. But however I talked abouthis first three murder victims and I gave
an insight into wat Chapel at thetime, which is not a good place
to be living. You don't wantto be there mm hmmm. And if
you aren't there, you're very fuckingper Yeah, it's not a fun time.
(00:52):
Oh, I know. We discussed. We discussed whether you would want
to take a chair or bed.Yeah, we did for You're like,
yeah, we did well done thisweekcap is just as much for Megan as
it is for everybody else. AndI think we said did we say the
(01:17):
chair? We set the chair?Yeah, because people were having people were
bumping ugly in those beds no ewyeah they were for the night. They
were like, this is my myboudoir. There's like ten other people in
there. Have you ever taught aboutbumping uglies? Back in a time when
(01:41):
there was no daily hygiene. Ohlike before people were having daily showers and
stuff. Oh god, people weren'teven having fucking weekly showers. No,
Like, I do not mean tobe crude, but I'm going to imagine
(02:01):
putting an unwashed penis in your menhasn't been washed in weekstp it. Oh
why did you have to say that. I already was imagining the smell,
(02:22):
like I didn't need the visual.I'm sorry, I just I had to
share the visual because I had itand I had to get it out of
my brain. And if I wasgoing to that visual, so the fuck
are you just traumatizing everybody else listening? Yeah, so Whitechapel is not the
place to be in the eighteen hundreds. And we talked about his first three
(02:46):
victims, which were Polly Nichols,Annie Chapman, and Elizabeth Stride. So
that was great, and we leftoff with a double acent mm hm,
yes, the double evant. Yes, the double evant. So Elizabeth was
(03:06):
murdered roughly around twelve forty five am, just for refresh of everybody's memory.
And she was only when I sayonly, like, she was only that
was my fridge. Oh. Yes, demon demons are back because I was
(03:27):
researching in demon case and we weretalking about it last week as well.
Were we were we? Oh,I think we might have been, or
was it the week before? Itwas recently anyway, he's been summoned.
Yeah, She's like, oh,you wanted me whipped it out after one
(03:50):
vodka. You wanted me just exactlywarnt it. She's like off to the
side, like yes, so justto like refresh everybody. She was murdered
roughly around twelve forty five am.She was her. Nothing majorly happened to
(04:14):
her is in regards to what hadhappened to Polly and Nickels. To Polly
Nichols and Annie Chapman, like theywere really brutal deaths, were like fucking
intestines were everywhere where she was quiteliterally just her throat was lit and that
was pretty much it. There waslike one or two other things, but
like nothing compared to what happened toPolly and to Annie and nothing like what
(04:44):
is about to happen next. Ohokay, I am going to give her
trigger warning. I said it lastweek and I'll say it again. It
is very much like that TikTok said. And her arms were cut off,
and her legs were cut off,and her feet were cut off, and
her tongue was cut off, andher face was cut It gets brutal,
okay, So I guess I'll justjump right on in. So, at
(05:09):
eight thirty am on the same nightas Elizabeth Stride's death September thirtieth, eighteen
eighty eight, a police officer waswalking his beat and everything was seemingly normal.
At about one forty four am,So fourteen minutes later, the same
officer was making his loop on hisbeach, making his way back round,
(05:31):
and he saw a woman lying onthe ground. Fourteen minutes. It's solid
talk, It's solid talk. CatherineEddowes was born in Gravesly Green, Wolverhampton,
on April fourteenth, eighteen forty two. She was the sixth kid of
twelve children to George and Catherine Arrows. The family was moved to London for
(05:56):
her father's work. She was sentto school which which wasn't the kind of
schooling that rich kids got. Itwas more so on how to survive in
a per family. Oh like theSchool of hard Knocks, Yeah, pretty
much like. It was very muchlike how to like. It was to
teach them skills so that they couldtry and make a living. Okay,
(06:20):
it wasn't so much like welcome childrentoday, we will be talking about economics
tricks. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. This school was like listen
you put okay, I'm gonna teachyou how to sell. I'm like,
I don't teach you how to sell, so you can at least try and
(06:42):
make some sort of living. Ithink I would want to go to that
school, though, because I don'tknow how to fucking sell. Yeah.
I feel like i'd learn more atthat school, to be honest. Yeah,
right, I don't want to benice, snobby bitch and moves.
Her mother died of tuberculosis on Novemberseventh, eighteen fifty five, and then
two years later her dad died.In eighteen fifty seven, all of Catherine's
(07:09):
siblings were separated. The older siblingswere sent to workhouses to pay for the
younger siblings schools, and then theyounger siblings were like divided into all these
different schools, right, which werekind of like orphanage's slash schools if you
will. Catherine was sent to livewith her aunt and her uncle. She
(07:30):
got a job and she worked therelike when she wasn't in school, she
was working. She was eventually firedfor allegedly stealing, and then she got
another job in her father's old placeof work. Catherine eventually lost this job
too. She was then kicked outof her aunt and uncle's house for losing
her job. Catherine had to movein with another uncle, but that didn't
(07:56):
last too long before she was forcedto move in with her grandfather. God,
this woman is being just this kid. Yeah, like I think she's
like fourteen when her dad dies orsomething like, she's like roughly like fourteen
fifteen when she's like orphaned. Soshe's not old enough to go off into
(08:16):
these like work houses like the oldersiblings. And then she's not young enough
for like the like schools to takeher in, so she has to like
go stay with family and work whilstalso getting her education. Her grandfather got
her a job, but this againdidn't last very long, and it wasn't
(08:41):
long until she decided that she wasgoing to move to Birmingham to be with
a man that she had met whenshe was sixteen years old. Thomas Conway
was a good bit older than Catherine. He was pensioned from the Royal Irish
regiment. He was irish, justfyi noise. Thomas sold chap books and
(09:01):
gallows ballads, which where songs wroteabout criminals that were waiting to be hanged
for crimes. Oh oh that's yeah. They really have someone for everything,
don't they. They really do thesedays these days. The couple never officially
(09:22):
got married, but Catherine did startgoing by Katherine Conway. The couple had
two Yeah, sligh, I'm goingto start doing that, you know,
all of a sudden, I'm justneave milan. I've just decided that's fine,
all right, Cool cool. Thecouple had two daughters together, and
(09:46):
Catherine even went ahead and got TCtattooed on her forearm. God, Catherine,
you're a fucking hardcore. She waslike, I fucking love you TC.
I believe it was in like blueink or something or like that.
That's even cooler, Right, whatI'm envisioning, it's probably not at all
(10:07):
what she had, but what I'menvisioning is just I'm envisioning like a massive
TC, Like it's really ornate thattakes of like fucking as much of her
form. Yeah, Like it's basicallyon her forehead at this point. Yeah,
that's exactly what I'm fixturing. Hangingswere then outlawed all across Britain,
(10:31):
which meant that the couple lost theirmain source of income. They were in
and out of work houses for money, and both Thomas and Catherine began drinking
very heavily, like they had noother source of income but these like Gallows
ballads, and then when hanging wasoutlawed, they were like, oh fucking
shit, so they just had noother option but to go into workhouses.
(10:54):
I just don't understand if you canbe good at writing Gallows ballads, why,
well, like a Gallows ballad whenI thought about it, because I
was like, the fuck is aguve ballad? And then I like googled
it and like, basically like aGallows ballad was like what was written about
leather Apron in the first episode wherethat was like when he was caught.
(11:20):
I can't even find it, soI can't even tell you what it was,
but it was like basically like hedid it, something has to be
hanged. But it was like wrotein like a rhythm, you know,
But why can't you just write othermusic? I don't. I don't know,
Okay, I don't know. Instead, they were like, oh,
fucking shit, we'll just have tostart drinking really heavily and start entering workhouses.
(11:43):
The couple had a son in eighteenseventy three, and from my knowledge,
they I read like a conflicting Onearticle said that they had like two
daughters and two sons, and thenanother article just mentioned two daughters and one
son. So they got kids,they got kids, okay, when tom
(12:07):
as I said, they were drinkingvery heavily. When Thomas was drunk,
he would actually beat Catherine and thisled to the relationship breaking down naturally because
he's a base of a shit fuckerand she got your name tattootnia. Yeah,
well your initials, but samely.Catherine and Thomas eventually separated, and
Catherine took their two daughters with her. She had nowhere to go, so
(12:33):
she was just living on the streets, so she had to place her daughters
in with family. Her family werelike, we're not taking you because you're
a fucking mess, but we'll takethe kids. Oh well that's something.
Yeah, I was like, tobe fair, she was a bit of
a mess, so yeah, Imean she lost all of her jobs all
the time, so yeah, theycouldn't trust her at that point, No,
(12:54):
he's supposed to do exactly. Catherine'sdrinking worse, and she began working
the streets as a prostitute, asa lady of the night. She was
arrested a couple of times for thisand also for drunken disorderly. This is
getting like even sadder. Her storyis getting worse. All of these women
that were murdered, their stories areso depressing and like sad, and I
(13:18):
get it. It's a shit timeto be alive in the eighteen hundreds.
But men, Jeemes, Louise,Yeah, it's it's rough. Catherine then
met John Kelly. He was asalesman. He didn't drink, and he
was a seemingly nice man who wasbesotted with Catherine. Oh that's good for
her, it's I think. Shewas just like, yeah, you're all
(13:41):
right, and he was like,you're the love of my life. She
was like sure, same sees yeah, okay, I mean, do you
have money? How broke are youdo? It didn't take long for Catherine
(14:03):
to move in with him. Shewas still going by Catherine Conway though for
the most part, but would occasionallyanswer to Katherine Kelly, which I just
think is so cruel, like he'sde sodded with her. She's like,
so my ex husband was like,pretty cool, it's pretty awesome. You
want to know how many questions youcan do? And he's like, you
(14:26):
moved a light of my life,like she ekesperienced it. Yeah, and
she's like, did you know tamasConway he wrote those gallons? Yeah?
You heard that one about leather apron. You heard that one. Yeah?
That was him, That was thatwas him, That was him. I
helped I was there. I shouldn'tmock because this woman's about to have a
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really awful death. I just couldn'thelp myself with that. The couple would
stay in lodging houses together, andthey would also enter work houses together,
but they would go off and dotheir own thing too, so like they
would basically just go off try toearn as much money as they could and
then need up to go stay inthe lodging houses, which I guess is
(15:13):
like kind of like not that bizarrefor the time, because you just,
yeah, what are you gonna do? Everybody just needed money so badly that
it was just like Okay, I'llmeet you at this time at this place,
and we'll put our money together andhopefully we'll have enough money for a
room. By the summer of eighteeneighty eight, they were common law married,
(15:35):
which basically meant that they were cohabitingfor so long that they were just
in the eyes of the government,they were considered married. Oh my god,
that's still a thing, because Ireally hope it is. Because what
is a common law marriage? Theterm common law marriage or first your relationship
between two people who decide to gohabitate and present themselves as a married couple
(16:00):
without the benefit of legal ceremony andmarriage certificate. But how long? Seven
years? Is it? Actually sevenyears? It is? Yeah, So
you and Ilen common law married.Throwing February. I'm gonna celebrate the day.
It was the first of February.We moved in together seven years ago.
(16:22):
Okay, the first of February.We're throwing you a marriage perfect,
perfect and Jill, the couple gotworked together in Kent to go hop picking,
which is what it sounds like wherethey went and they picked hops for
the beers. So the couple walkedthe forty miles to Kent, did their
(16:42):
work, stayed there for a fewweeks, and then they walked home back
to Whitechapel. This had been thefirst time that the couple actually spent like
that much time together, because normallythey would spend like hours a part,
yeah, trying to like find differentwork where this time they were working like
(17:04):
with one another. It's reported thatthey didn't get on so well and that
they were arguing quite a bit.They arrived back in London on September twenty
seventh, eighteen eighty eight, andJohn went into a lodging house. Catherine
went to join a workhouse to tryto earn a little extra money. When
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she got to the workhouse, shewent up to the superintendent and told him
that she was there to collect thereward for the White Chapel murders because quote,
I think I know him. Thesuperintendent warned her to be careful that
she didn't end up a victim,and she replied, quote, don't worry,
No fear for that, No fearof that. Ooh no, don't
(17:49):
like that foreshadowing. Yeah. OnSeptember twenty ninth, eighteen eighty eight,
Catherine met John for breakfast before goingoff to do a few of her few
bits and pieces, a few jobshere and there, a few errands.
They planned to meet up later onthat day, and they did at around
two pm, and Catherine told Johnthat she was going to see her daughter
(18:12):
because she wanted to go ask herfor money, and that she would be
back more roughly around four pm.So at around four pm she was back
in Whitechapel and she was seen onProstitute Island, which is basically just like
an area where Yeah, I know, it's basically just an area where sex
(18:33):
workers gathered to try get some work. I mean, fair enough, but
who fucking called it. I'm viewingit as like an I'm viewing it as
like a roundabout that like all thewomen stood on. I fully imagined a
full islands like Lost style. Nice. Catherine was described as very drunk and
(18:56):
was reportedly imitating a fire engine.Okay, yeah, this is now what
a fire engine sounded like in eighteeneighty eight. It's not to my knowledge.
Can we please search. I'm like, I don't know what I'm expecting
to be honest, I'm imagining justsome guy hanging off it going we okay,
(19:23):
horse fire engine nineteen oh eight.Let's see, Well we're in eighteen
eighty eight, but I'm sure it'llbe close enough. Yeah, it's literally
a horse drawn carriage. God,we all have boddy hats on. That's
lit. I really want to knowwhat it Okay, well, this is
what was reported. Again, Ido not know what a fire engine would
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have sounded like back then. Wasn'ta proper fire engine, was it.
But how andever, that's what wasreported. So that's what I'm going to
tell y'all. At around eight thirtypm, she was arrested by two police
officers. They had found her lyingon the ground extremely intoxicated. When they
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asked her what her name was,she replied nothing. She was put in
a cell and she was left thereto sober up. At twelve thirty am,
she asked the police officers when theyintended to let her leave, and
she was told that she could leavewhen she was able to look after herself.
At around one am, she wasdischarged and let go. When police
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asked for her name, she toldthem it was Mary Anne Kelly of six
Fashioned Street. Oh doesn't I yourname is it Helenepha? Oh? Well
yeah. Then as she was walkingat the door of the police station,
she turned around and said, ohright, good night, o'cock. Oh
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I feel like that. I feellike that's a warm greeting for some reason.
Yeah. I don't see it aslike an insult. I see that
as her just being like super English. Yeah, like old timey. Yeah,
yeah, yeah it. At onethirty five am, Catherine was seen
walking down a street called Church Passageby three men. They saw her talking
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with a man of medium build.He was wearing a gray jacket with a
red scarf and a gray hat withpeak on it. Catherine had her hands
on the man's chest. Less thanten minutes later, Catherine's body was found
mutilated and disembelled Jesus. Her headwas turned to the left shoulder by her
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with her arms by her side.Her clothes were above her waist and her
left leg was extended. Her throathad been cut and her intestines had been
removed. They'd been placed lying overher right shoulder. She'd been cut from
rectum to sternum. Her right earhad been cut off. Both eyelids had
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been sliced open. She had acush from the bridge of her nose to
the cheek, to her cheek,and then down to her chin. The
tip of her nose had been cutoff. Her lip had been cut in
half down to her gum underneath hereyes, where two small triangles had been
cut out with some skin like flappingover them. Her left kidney had been
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removed and it was not at thecrime scene. What the hell? Oh
this is like less than ten minutesright. The killer had also stabbed Catherine
in the vagina, liver, andrectum. He sliced her right tie up
to her labia. It was concludedthat Catherine had died from her throat being
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cut and everything else had been donepostmortem. A piece of her apron was
also cut off and taken. Policebelieved they'll found the piece of apron about
ten minutes away from the crime scene, and it appeared as if it was
used to clean the killer's knife.Then in any way where the apron had
(23:14):
been found. Wrote on the wallin chalk was quote, the Jews are
not the men that will be blamedfor nothing. Okay, So there's a
lot of anti seminism during like goingon. Now. I don't talk about
the policing and the investigating in thiscrime because when I tell you it's a
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hot mess, it's a hot mess. But it's eighteen eighty eight and I
don't expect anything less. Yeah,fair fair enough, and the like lead
detective was like, I was unstressedlyI would be do if I was the
lead detective of the fucking Jackie Rippercase. Nah, babes, I'm out.
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He's like unstressed. Leave when thishappened. When Catherine Edo's is like
murdered and he's like fucking like Paris, They're like, you know you got
to get out. Nah no,I do not need to go anywhere.
I amn't going to enjoy my stress. Leave. But so the like officers
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wanted to take a photo of whatwas wrote in the chalk like on the
wall, but it was too darkto take the photo. They would have
had to wait a few hours forit to be led out because obviously this
is eighteen eighty eight and their chemistscan only do so much. Yeah,
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and so they certain police officers wantedto wait to take a photo, but
then like higher up detectives basically madethe decision to wipe it all off the
wall. Oh, it would haveincited Their claims were that it would have
incited like something because it was ananti Jewish remark and like tensions were high
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and he was like, it's gotto get off the walls. Now I
don't remember like names and stuff,but basically, like one detective was like,
can we not just like wipe offthe word jew? Mmm, we'll
know it says jew. Take aphoto of it and then remove wipe it
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all off. But basically the leaddetective that was there that was like in
charge, because the actual lead detectivewas off and fucking stressed a bat a
goal, he just basically was like, Nope, remove it and removed it.
Didn't ideal. That's not the bestscenario. Like, and to be
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fair to like the detectives that waslike, can we not just like remove
the word jew? We'll know thatit says jew, so we'll know.
Yeah, because then they're like,people won't know that it's out and we
can just take a photo. Wecan just say we find it like that,
but we'll know that it actually saidyou. And then that means whoever
wrote it is possibly the killer.We'll know it said jew. Actually,
(26:17):
yeah, that's another point as well. Yeah, that's great, but it's
eighteen eighty eight. If we've learnedanything about policing in the fucking nineties.
If it's not good in the nineteennineties, it's not good in the eighteen
hundreds. Before I go any Frida, We'll just take a quick at break
and we're back. The media andthe police began receiving letters allegedly from the
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killer. I have these letters.Oh lay it on me baby. On
September twenty eighth, eighteen eighty eight, the Central News Agency in London received
the first letter. Now, theCentral News Agency isn't a news it it's
like head of the news outlets.So like it's like you have from my
(27:07):
understanding back then, It's like andobviously these weren't the newspapers that are around,
but these are the ones that Iknow, So these are the ones
that I'm going to use. It'slike the Sun and the Mirror are a
part of the Central News Agency,right, They're like an umbrella. Yeah.
Yeah, So they received to theletter, okay, which people find
(27:30):
strange because why would they receive theletter not the actual newspaper. I guess
to make sure it went out toevery possible source. God of maybe maybe
The letter was dated September twenty fifth, eighteen eighty eight, and this letter
is known as the Dear Boss letter. Dear Boss, I keep hearing the
(27:52):
police have caught me, but theywon't fix me just yet. I have
laughed when they look up, whenthey look so clad and talk about being
on the right track. The jokeabout leather apron gave me real fits.
I am down on whores, andI shan't quit ripping until I get buckled
grant work. The last job wasI gave the lady no time to squeal?
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How can they catch me now?I love my work and I want
to start again. You will soonhear of me with my funny little games.
I saved some of the proper stuffin a ginger beer bottle over the
last job to write with, butit went thick like glue and I can't
use it. Red ink is fitenough, I hope. Hah. The
next job I do, I shallclip the lady's ear off and send them
(28:37):
to the police officers, just forjolly. Wouldn't you keep this letter back
till I do a bit more work, then give it out straight. My
knive's so nice and sharp, andI want to get to work right away
if I can get a chance.Good luck yours, truly, Jack the
ripper, don't mind me giving thetrade name. PS wasn't good enough to
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post this before I got the redink off my hands, criss it no
look yet they say I'm a doctornow, ha ha. I don't get
the PS part, he wrote.He wrote the letters in red ink,
and so he's basically like, Ican't get this goose stuff off me.
We didn't need to know that,Jack. Then on October first, eighteen
(29:25):
eighty eight, a postcard was sentto the Central News Agency. Again there
there appeared to be blood smeared allover the postcard, and this became known
as the Sausage Jack letter. Iwas not caught in dear old boss,
when I gave you the tip,you'll hear about saucy Jack's work tomorrow.
Double event. This time Number onesquealed a bit, couldn't finished straight off,
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had no time to get years offfor police. Thanks for keeping last
letter back until I got to workagain, Jack the Ripper. The next
letter was sent to the chairman ofthe Whitechapel Vigilance Committee, which had been
set up as an almost like communitywatch program that we're like trying to catch
(30:11):
the murderer fair m The letter wasaccompanied with a small package. In the
package was a little bit of akidney, Just a little bit of a
kidney, just a little bit ofa kidney and buy you a little bit.
I mean half half a kidney.Oh, where's the rest of it?
(30:33):
That's what's scary. Yeah, yep. If you remember Catherine Edams was
missing her kidney, she was sothis letter is one of the most famous
letters, and it is the fromHell letter and it was sent on October
sixteenth, eighteen eighty eight. MisterLusk, sir, I sent you half
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the kidney I took from one woman, preserved it for you to other piece.
I fry and ate it. Itwas very nice. I may send
you the bloody knife that took itout, if only you wait a while
longer. Signed catch me if youcan, mister Lusk, catch me if
you can, mister Horns. Thekidney was sent to doctor Openshaw or Openshaw
(31:18):
however you want to say his name, a local pathological creator. He confirmed
that the kidney was in fact humanand very possibly came from Cathernetto's. It
was the correct size and it wasfrom it. I think the kidney was
taken from her right side, Ithink, and this was like a right
(31:41):
kidney, so they were like,it's their right shape, the right size,
it's from the same side, like, it's very like I'd say they
were probably like ninety nine percent sureas Cathernetto's. But again, I'm sorry,
I hit my mic again. It'seighteen eighty eight, Like they're not
doing tests like we're doing now,so they can never be one hundred percent
(32:04):
sure back then. Yeah, it'sjust like it fit. Yeah, it's
sup puzzled. How many people arelosing kidneys these days, you know,
in eighteen eighty eight, probably alot more than you expect. Yeah,
you know what, you're probably rightthere. But then on October twenty ninth,
eighteen eighty eight, doctor Oppenshaw receiveda letter from Jack the Ripper,
(32:25):
Old boss. He was right,it was the left kidney. I'm sorry
they will it's from the left side, old boss. You was right,
it was the left kidney. Iwas going to operate again and close to
your close to you hospital. Sorry, the like first two letters are rotten
wroten on. Oh. The firsttwo letters are written like properly, and
(32:52):
then the next few are like writtenlike really bad. I was going to
operate. He got confused for operatinghospital. Okay, yeah, just as
I was going to draw my knifealonger bloom and throat, then cusses of
Copper's spoilt the game. But Iguess I will be on the job soon
(33:15):
and we'll send you another bit ofinards Jack the Ripper. Oh have you
seen the devil with his microscope andscalpel a looking at a kidney with a
slide cocked up? Okay, yep. Now, there's a lot of skepticism
about how authentic these letters are.Many people believe most of them are fake,
(33:37):
and most people believe that the onlyletter to be real is the from
Hell letter. It's the one thatdoesn't address himself as Jack the Ripper.
It's the only one where he justgives information. Here's a kidney, Like
(33:58):
it's literally like, here's the kidney. I preserved it. I fired Nat
the other piece. It was nice. I'll send you my knife if you
want. I don't know what elseyou want me to do. Yeah,
I am all the other ones.It's like old Boss and you know,
like very like theatrical, Yeah,very it's getting like BTK vibes, like
(34:23):
naming himself and stuff. Yeah,and only BTK what do that? Yeah?
Oh wait, didn't the X Manof New Orleans. No, he
didn't. He wrote just ro letters. Oh, he wrote theatrical letters,
but he didn't name himself the XMan. I don't think he did.
His letters are my favorite. Hisletters were the shit. Yeah. So
(34:45):
most people believe that the from Hellletter is the only one that might be
real, and that is why itis the most famous one. So most
people know about the from Hell Letter. They might know about the rest,
but a lot of people, likewhen you talk about Jack the Ripper,
know about that one. Then onNovember ninth, eighteen eighty eight, the
last and the youngest victim was foundin her was found mutilated in her bed.
(35:12):
Mary Jane Kelly was born in eighteensixty three in Limerick, Ireland.
When she was young, her fathermoved the family to Wales to try and
escape the Irish famine. At sixteenyears of age, Mary met John Davis.
He was a coal miner. Maryand John eventually got married. Mary
(35:36):
then claimed that John had died ina coal mining explosion, and she then
went off and moved to Cardiff withher cousin, but it is believed that
John was still alive. When shemoved to Cardiff, Mary was struggling to
make some money, so she turnedto sex work. She claimed that she
(35:58):
had spent nine months in Cardiff ininfirmary of a mystery illness, but there's
no real report of this, andthen she said that she had to work
at the infirmary to pay for herlike hospital bills. In eighteen eighty four,
Mary decided to move to London fora fresh start. She jumped from
job to job, never lasting long. She eventually got a job as a
(36:22):
lady's maid, which essentially just meantthat she was working in a brothel.
She was very popular with customers thereand had a lot of regulars. Francis
Craig was one of her many regulars, and he was a job as an
He had a job as an editorof a local newspaper, but he had
been fired for stealing other people's work. That's no good, don't do that.
(36:45):
I hate when people do that,I know, right. He asked
Mary to move with him to Pariswhere he would get her a job,
where he would get her a betterpaying job in a gentleman's club. So
she went with him and was likefuck it, why not. She didn't
last very long and she decided thatshe wanted to go home to London,
(37:06):
so the couple went so the twoof them came home and they got married
on Christmas Eve. The marriage onlylasted about three months before Mary just up
and left Francis. Oh okay,yep, she moved to the East end
of London. Francis hired a privateinvestigator to try to find Mary, and
(37:27):
he found her. And when hefound her, she was working the streets
as a sex worker. Mary wenton to get work in different brothels.
Nothing like all she could kind ofget was sex work, and this enraged
Frances and he was at one stageconsidered a suspect in her murder. Yeah,
(37:49):
well, he seemed like he needa real problem with her. Mary
began drinking a lot and eventually lefther job at the bottle. She was
bouncing around the lodging houses when sheeventually met Joseph Burnett. The couple met
at a pub called the Ten Bells, which is still open to this day.
Ah, that's nice. They veryquickly decided to move in together.
(38:14):
They rented an apartment at thirteen Miller'sCourt, which was a very rough area.
Joseph wanted to be the provider forthe couple. He wanted to keep
Mary off working the streets like hewas like, let me work as hard
as I can so you do nothave to go out and work in these
like horrific conditions. We bless hissoul. He however, lost his job
(38:37):
in the summer of eighteen eighty eight, and the couple had no other choice
but for Mary to start sex workagain. By autumn eighteen eighty eight,
the couple had begun to fight alot. Mary's drinking had gotten very bad,
and she actually began letting friends stayin the apartment with her and Joseph
when they had no money for lodginghouses. And when I call this an
(38:58):
apartment, it is not. It'san eighteen eighty eight apartment. Yeah.
It literally fits a single bed,a chair, and like a circular side
table, small table, and ithas a fireplace in it. And she's
like letting friends stay there because theydon't have money for lodging houses. And
(39:21):
she's like, sure, just comespend the night with me, it's fine,
And then like Joseph's like, yeah, where where do you expect this
to be? Like what? Josepheventually had enough when Mary led a woman
that they barely knew stay in theapartment, and he left Mary in October
eighteen eighty eight, which like,look, I kind of understand you barely
(39:47):
know this woman, like you're lettinga stranger stay in our house. They
remain friends, though, and Josephtried to give Mary money to help her
with rent and stuff whenever he hadany spare. That's nice, it is
nice. He went to go seeMary on October seventh, eighteen eighty eight,
(40:09):
and it is believed that he gaveher some money and that was the
last time he saw her. Marywas seen out drinking the next night at
several pubs. She had been seena lot with different men that night,
and it is believed that she waslate in her rent. So rent was
due the like following day and shewas super behind, and so she basically
(40:32):
went to work the streets to tryto get as much money as she could
to pay the back rent that sheowed. At around eleven forty five PM,
a neighbor saw Mary arrive home witha man that was described as a
stout man roughly in his thirties.He had a mustache, and he was
hiding a beer under his coat.How did she know that? I know,
(40:52):
right, sleigh neighbors, could thisis also a sleigh neighbors could hear
her singing old Irish songs until aboutone am. Well, yeah, I
mean Dublin's Fair City where the girlsare so pretty. I first set my
eyes on sweet Molly alone. IfI ever have a child, I can't
(41:14):
name her Molly. Oh you reallycan't. Oh, and I like that
name. Mary's neighbor that lived aboveher woke up between three and four am
as her cat had been startled bysomething. That is, when she heard
someone shid murder. Oh, butI heard nothing after that and just went
(41:37):
back to bed. Now this indicatesjust how rough Whitechapel was that at three
in the morning, you're hearing someone'sshape murder and you're just like, oh,
what the fuck's going on out there? And then you roll over and
you go by sleep. Yeah.Yeah, I'd probably do the same to
(41:58):
be fair in Malta. Yeah,Like it just goes to show like what
they were living in that like tothem, that's just like a fucking nightly
occurrence. Yeah. Then on Novemberninth, eighteen eighty eight, at around
ten thirty am, the landlord's assistantknocked on Mary's door to collect overdue rent.
(42:21):
No one answered, so he wentaround the corner to look in the
window, and that is when hesaw the rippers last and by far worst
crime. Police were called immediately.They were unable to enter Mary's apartment as
the lock on her door had broken. Her and Joseph had gotten into a
fight many months before and it ledto their window breaking. There was only
(42:45):
one window into the apartment, andit ended up that the window broke,
and that's how they were entering andexiting. No, that's how they were
entering their apartment. So the lock, the lock of the apartment like just
locked once you closed the door,so they could leave that through the door.
They couldn't get back in because theyknow key'd get back in, so
(43:07):
they were like going back in throughthe window to open the door to let
the other in. Okay. Ittook a while for police to kind of
figure it away in because they werelike, hey, do we get in
here without like fucking up the crimescene. So eventually they just hadn't.
Eventually police us entered the apartment throughthe window. They noticed how hot the
(43:29):
room was, and that was becausethe killer left the fire blazing, which
meant that he was that long gone. Mary's body was lying in the middle
of her bed, surrounded by apool of blood. Her head was facing
the left. There was a cuton her throat from left to right.
(43:50):
The surface of her abdomen and partof her insides were missing and placed all
around the room. The abdomen cavitywas completely emptied of its viscera. Her
breasts were cut off and her armswere mutilated. Her uterus and kidneys,
along with one breast, was placedunder her head. The other breast was
beside her right foot. The liverwas placed in between her feet, and
(44:15):
the intestines were on the right ofher body, and her spleen was placed
to the left. There had beenflaps of skin that the killer had placed
on the table. There was bloodall over the walls beside the bed.
Mary's ears, nose, cheeks,and eyebrows had all been partially removed.
(44:36):
Her lips had been blanched, Hervagina was more or less removed from her
body. Her heart had been removedand it was not at the crime scene.
After news broke of Mary's murder,witnesses began coming forward. One one
friend came forward and said that hehad seen her at around two am the
night of her murder. She hadasked him for a lend of money,
(44:59):
but he was also looking for moneyfor a lodging house. Mary then went
on and found herself another client forthe night, and he was described as
all the other sightings of the Ripperbefore dark features average build, average height,
dark clothing, carrying a package.The witness said that he followed Mary
(45:20):
and her client back to the apartmentand he waited for a while, and
it was basically because she let friendsstay with her. He was like,
oh, maybe when she's finished withthe client, she'll let me stay the
night, because I have no moneyfor a lodging house. But he said
he was their ages and there wasno sign of anyone coming out of the
house, so he just left,okay. These victims of Jack the Ripper
(45:44):
are known as the canonical five.Some people believe that there are more.
There had been two murders in Whitechapelbefore the death of Polly Nichols. That
was Emma Smith, who died Aprilthird, eighteen eighty eight, and Martha
Tabrum who died August seventh, eighteeneighty eight. Then there had been four
(46:07):
more murders after the death of Mary, Jane, Kelly Rose, Marlette died
December twentieth, eighteen eighty eight.Alice Mackenzie died July seventeenth, eighteen eighty
nine, the Pinchin Street torso whichwas found September tenth, eighteen eighty nine,
which was basically just a torso foundunder a bridge, and Francis Coyle,
(46:32):
who had died February thirteenth, eighteenninety one. It has always been
difficult to find out when exactly Jackthe Ripper started his killing spray and when
he ended it. It's never beendiscovered who he was or why he stopped.
Some people believe that he moved away. Others think he died or maybe
(46:54):
he was institutionalized. There are manysuspect in this case. I've just picked
out a few who I think,not even who I think did it,
just a few that I was like, interesting, Yeah. Montaque, John
(47:14):
Droot Montaque was an English barrister whowas not from Whitechapel. Now a lot
of people believe that the killer hadto have been from Whitechapel to basically know
the streets so well to kill someonein fourteen minutes and then like never be
(47:37):
seen. But you have to knowthe streets. But John, although he
wasn't from Whitechapel. He was seena lot in the area around the time
of the murders. He was describedas sexually insane. Oh yeah, okay,
(47:59):
and under said by ninth eighteen eightyeight he had killed himself by drowning
himself in the River Thams. Thismight explain why the murders had stopped.
But he's not from Whitechapel, andto be honest, there was no real
reason why people thought he was justsexually insane. So they're like, imagine,
(48:19):
now you have one partner and theygo around telling everybody think you're secondly
insane. Just so if you gota little kinky, you got a little
freaky with it. Iconic Aaron Kuzminskiwas a Polish barber who reportedly heard voices
and suffered from hallucinations. He wassent to an asylum to an asylum after
threatening silence with a knife. Ineighteen ninety one, DNA had been tested
(48:45):
from a piece of fabric that believedto have come from Catherine Edo's shawl.
It was found to be a matchwith Aaron. However, the type of
blood test that was conducted is notvery accurate and is more so used as
a way of ruling out suspects,not a way of confirming. I don't
(49:12):
know a whole pile about DNA,So that's the best information that I can
give you, Okay, fair.It's also believed that the piece of fabric
may not even be from Catherine Edow'sshawl. The material of the fabric is
believed to not have been made untilafter eighteen eighty eight. But some like
rich guy bought this at like auction, and it was auctioned as like Jack
(49:40):
the Ripper's victim clothing item, Sothat's why he bought it. And then
he went and he got it tested, and they were like, yeah,
that's got Iron Kazminski's DNA on it, but it doesn't do you know what
I mean? It like it mightbe his DNA, but it also might
(50:02):
be someone with just a similar DNApattern. Yeah, was it like blood
type that they were looking at,like ab or I don't really know.
From my understanding of it. It'slike me and you, even though we're
not related, we could have asimilar like we could have similar markers that
(50:23):
make up our DNA and so,but like Cottle could have completely different markers.
And so the type of test wouldbe done would be to rule cattle
out as a suspect, not ruleus in as a suspect. Yeah,
I get you. James Kelly hadmurdered his wife in eighteen eighty three by
(50:49):
stabbing her in the neck. Hewas committed to broad More Insane Asylum,
and he managed to escape in earlyeighteen eighty eight. He was known for
having a strong hatred of sex workers, and police couldn't find him. Oh,
it wasn't until he turned himself inin nineteen twenty seven. Excuse me,
(51:17):
nineteen twenty six. I'm surprised youlived that long. Same and he
told police, quote, I've beenon the war path since Broadmoor. He
died in nineteen twenty nine from naturalcauses, and the only reason most people
suspect him is because the way hemurdered his wife. He stabbed her in
(51:40):
the throat, and all of Jackthe Ripper's victims had their throats cut.
However, it doesn't explain why hejust all of a sudden stopped but didn't
hand himself in until nineteen twenty seven. Yeah, unless you went somewhere else
or got sick or something. WalterSecret was an artist who was well known
(52:02):
for his paintings of prostitute he has. He has very famous paintings. He
painted scenes that when you matched themup with crime scene photos of Ripper murders,
they seemed to align. Oh oh, I don't like that. A
(52:23):
lot of people believe that this wasWalter's way of leaving clues in his paintings
that he was, in fact Jackthe Ripper. And he has a painting
that's called what's called it's called likeJack the Ripper's Bedroom or something like that.
But that's because he was staying ina room and the woman that ran
(52:45):
it was like, this was Jackthe Repper's room. It was indicated that
Walter was impotent, impotent, impotent? Why'd I say it like that?
Important? He was in potent,and that this was why he would attack
sex workers because it reminded him ofhis pain of not being able to get
(53:07):
it up. Yeah, that's right, just take it out on women.
Yeap. Walter's DNA was found ona stamp from one of the Ripper's letters.
Again, it was the same DNAtesting that had been done on Catherine
edo'shawl So not at all one hundredpercent. Now we talked about Jack the
(53:28):
Ripper letters possibly being fake. Yes, so if they wear fake, it's
very believable that he just wrote onefor one of the news outlets for funzies.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Soit's like not at all out of
the realm of possibility that he didwrite a letter and that that is his
(53:49):
DNA on the stamp. It wasstrongly believed that it was not Jack the
Ripper, but it was Dring theRipper. Oh, I haven't heard this
theory. A witness in Mary JaneKelly's murder came forward and said that she
saw Mary at eight am on Novemberninth, nineteen eighty eight. No,
(54:12):
not nineteen eighty eight, eighteen eightyeight. However, Mary was already dead
by that stage, because it's believedshe died between three and four am.
The witness said that she talked toMary and she remembered seeing her again at
nine am with a man like Shewas like, no, Like I talked
(54:34):
to her, like, I askedher, hey, how are you like?
You know? Look, she waslike, I had a conversation with
her, like I saw her.But the police were like, no,
because she was dead, didn't seeher the fuck. This led to the
theory that the murderer was, infact a midwife. It was commonly thought
(54:59):
that the ripper had medical knowledge withhow the organs had been taken out seamlessly
and in such a short space oftime. It would not have been questioned
if you saw a midwife walking aroundwith blood in her clothes back in eighteen
eighty eight. And it's believed thatwhat this witness saw was the killer wearing
(55:21):
Mary's clothes, walking around pretending tobe her after she murdered her. Oh
that's fucked up, right, yeah, personally, Like I don't believe that,
but also what an interesting theory.It's an interesting theory. But like,
yeah, I mean people have completelydifferent faces. Like I could be
(55:44):
wearing the exact same clothes as you, and nobody's going to mix up.
So the girl that saw her hadonly like she knew her, but it
only saw her a handful of times, right, and like it was more
so of an acquaintance than a friend, and so you know, was like,
no, like, I'm pretty sureit was her that I saw.
(56:05):
Like I talked to her, Iasked her, Hey, Mary, how
are you? And your one repliedand was like oh good, thanks,
are you? Blah blah, blah. But then eighteen eighty eight, like
half a y'all are called Mary.Yeah, true, very true. Now
the most famous suspect is HH Holmes. Yes, for those of you who
(56:27):
don't know, he was a notoriouskiller in America. He had a medical
degree, which fit the theory aboutthe killer, and he also fits the
description. It is strongly suspected thathe was in London in eighteen eighty eight,
around the time of the murders.There is a ship log that has
A H. Holmes heading back toAmerica in November eighteen eighty eight, which
(56:52):
would explain why the murders stopped.And during eighteen eighty eight to eighteen eighty
nine, Holmes did not commit anycrimes in America. He did at one
point claim that he was the Ripper, but he was known for lying about
killing people, and he was knownlike for lying about like he'd be like,
(57:14):
oh, I killed them, andthen like the police would go check
it out and the person would belike, no, I'm not dead.
I'm very much Oh God, Okay. Now the EMMO of Jack the Ripper
does not match the EMMO of Holmes. We killed for insurance money, yeah,
and he never wants targeted sex workers, and he did not kill in
(57:37):
a violent way as Jack the Ripperkilled. Yeah, he didn't really like
to get his hands dirty from whatI remember. No, Unfortunately, we
may never know who committed these horrible, horrific crimes one hundred and thirty four
years ago. Not, my friends, is Jack the Ripper. That was
(58:00):
really good, Thank you. Iwas very proud of that episode, but
I'm also super excited for the nextone. Bye bye way, guys.
Neave, as per usual, iscarrying the podcast on her back, not
at all doing all of the episodes. I've don't do the research, but
(58:21):
you you edit it, and i'dbeen last taking edit it. So if
you super duper enjoyed this episode,make sure to go check out our other
stuff. Last week obviously was Jackthe Ripper Part one, and the week
before that was Emmanuela or Landy.If you enjoyed it and then you're like,
wow, these girls are great,I can't wait to hear next week's
(58:44):
episode because I've already listened to everythingelse. You can always like subscribe to
us and like get notifications of whenlike our episodes come. O. Shit,
you could you could totally do that, you know where to find us.
You can find us where wherever youget your podcast wherever you're currently listening
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(59:09):
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More. If you want to seewho you're listening to, you can check
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Neve. And if you ever wantedto support the podcast, you can always
(59:32):
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also, don't be afraid to sendus your suggestions. Yeah, or if
you'd be pretty sweet, it'd bepretty great. Mm hmmm hm. We
(59:55):
super appreciate you guys. We reallyhope you're being safe this Halloween in season
mm hmm. Doping mess fireworks such, it's dangerous. Don't and make sure
you check all your mars bars forsyringes czer I'm gonna go eat a curry,
(01:00:15):
enjoy, enjoy. I had aMcDonald's earlier. Ten out of ten.
Okay, we'll see you on theflip side, you guys, see
you, Silantia
Hi, welcome back to give usmug eve. I'm Megan and I don't
really have anything to say about thisintro. Just hey back, welcome back,
miss you when you bugger. Solast week we talked about Jack the
repeal. I don't know why Imade him sound French because it happened in
(00:29):
England. But however I talked abouthis first three murder victims and I gave
an insight into wat Chapel at thetime, which is not a good place
to be living. You don't wantto be there mm hmmm. And if
you aren't there, you're very fuckingper Yeah, it's not a fun time.
(00:52):
Oh, I know. We discussed. We discussed whether you would want
to take a chair or bed.Yeah, we did for You're like,
yeah, we did well done thisweekcap is just as much for Megan as
it is for everybody else. AndI think we said did we say the
(01:17):
chair? We set the chair?Yeah, because people were having people were
bumping ugly in those beds no ewyeah they were for the night. They
were like, this is my myboudoir. There's like ten other people in
there. Have you ever taught aboutbumping uglies? Back in a time when
(01:41):
there was no daily hygiene. Ohlike before people were having daily showers and
stuff. Oh god, people weren'teven having fucking weekly showers. No,
Like, I do not mean tobe crude, but I'm going to imagine
(02:01):
putting an unwashed penis in your menhasn't been washed in weekstp it. Oh
why did you have to say that. I already was imagining the smell,
(02:22):
like I didn't need the visual.I'm sorry, I just I had to
share the visual because I had itand I had to get it out of
my brain. And if I wasgoing to that visual, so the fuck
are you just traumatizing everybody else listening? Yeah, so Whitechapel is not the
place to be in the eighteen hundreds. And we talked about his first three
(02:46):
victims, which were Polly Nichols,Annie Chapman, and Elizabeth Stride. So
that was great, and we leftoff with a double acent mm hm,
yes, the double evant. Yes, the double evant. So Elizabeth was
(03:06):
murdered roughly around twelve forty five am, just for refresh of everybody's memory.
And she was only when I sayonly, like, she was only that
was my fridge. Oh. Yes, demon demons are back because I was
(03:27):
researching in demon case and we weretalking about it last week as well.
Were we were we? Oh,I think we might have been, or
was it the week before? Itwas recently anyway, he's been summoned.
Yeah, She's like, oh,you wanted me whipped it out after one
(03:50):
vodka. You wanted me just exactlywarnt it. She's like off to the
side, like yes, so justto like refresh everybody. She was murdered
roughly around twelve forty five am.She was her. Nothing majorly happened to
(04:14):
her is in regards to what hadhappened to Polly and Nickels. To Polly
Nichols and Annie Chapman, like theywere really brutal deaths, were like fucking
intestines were everywhere where she was quiteliterally just her throat was lit and that
was pretty much it. There waslike one or two other things, but
like nothing compared to what happened toPolly and to Annie and nothing like what
(04:44):
is about to happen next. Ohokay, I am going to give her
trigger warning. I said it lastweek and I'll say it again. It
is very much like that TikTok said. And her arms were cut off,
and her legs were cut off,and her feet were cut off, and
her tongue was cut off, andher face was cut It gets brutal,
okay, So I guess I'll justjump right on in. So, at
(05:09):
eight thirty am on the same nightas Elizabeth Stride's death September thirtieth, eighteen
eighty eight, a police officer waswalking his beat and everything was seemingly normal.
At about one forty four am,So fourteen minutes later, the same
officer was making his loop on hisbeach, making his way back round,
(05:31):
and he saw a woman lying onthe ground. Fourteen minutes. It's solid
talk, It's solid talk. CatherineEddowes was born in Gravesly Green, Wolverhampton,
on April fourteenth, eighteen forty two. She was the sixth kid of
twelve children to George and Catherine Arrows. The family was moved to London for
(05:56):
her father's work. She was sentto school which which wasn't the kind of
schooling that rich kids got. Itwas more so on how to survive in
a per family. Oh like theSchool of hard Knocks, Yeah, pretty
much like. It was very muchlike how to like. It was to
teach them skills so that they couldtry and make a living. Okay,
(06:20):
it wasn't so much like welcome childrentoday, we will be talking about economics
tricks. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. This school was like listen
you put okay, I'm gonna teachyou how to sell. I'm like,
I don't teach you how to sell, so you can at least try and
(06:42):
make some sort of living. Ithink I would want to go to that
school, though, because I don'tknow how to fucking sell. Yeah.
I feel like i'd learn more atthat school, to be honest. Yeah,
right, I don't want to benice, snobby bitch and moves.
Her mother died of tuberculosis on Novemberseventh, eighteen fifty five, and then
two years later her dad died.In eighteen fifty seven, all of Catherine's
(07:09):
siblings were separated. The older siblingswere sent to workhouses to pay for the
younger siblings schools, and then theyounger siblings were like divided into all these
different schools, right, which werekind of like orphanage's slash schools if you
will. Catherine was sent to livewith her aunt and her uncle. She
(07:30):
got a job and she worked therelike when she wasn't in school, she
was working. She was eventually firedfor allegedly stealing, and then she got
another job in her father's old placeof work. Catherine eventually lost this job
too. She was then kicked outof her aunt and uncle's house for losing
her job. Catherine had to movein with another uncle, but that didn't
(07:56):
last too long before she was forcedto move in with her grandfather. God,
this woman is being just this kid. Yeah, like I think she's
like fourteen when her dad dies orsomething like, she's like roughly like fourteen
fifteen when she's like orphaned. Soshe's not old enough to go off into
(08:16):
these like work houses like the oldersiblings. And then she's not young enough
for like the like schools to takeher in, so she has to like
go stay with family and work whilstalso getting her education. Her grandfather got
her a job, but this againdidn't last very long, and it wasn't
(08:41):
long until she decided that she wasgoing to move to Birmingham to be with
a man that she had met whenshe was sixteen years old. Thomas Conway
was a good bit older than Catherine. He was pensioned from the Royal Irish
regiment. He was irish, justfyi noise. Thomas sold chap books and
(09:01):
gallows ballads, which where songs wroteabout criminals that were waiting to be hanged
for crimes. Oh oh that's yeah. They really have someone for everything,
don't they. They really do thesedays these days. The couple never officially
(09:22):
got married, but Catherine did startgoing by Katherine Conway. The couple had
two Yeah, sligh, I'm goingto start doing that, you know,
all of a sudden, I'm justneave milan. I've just decided that's fine,
all right, Cool cool. Thecouple had two daughters together, and
(09:46):
Catherine even went ahead and got TCtattooed on her forearm. God, Catherine,
you're a fucking hardcore. She waslike, I fucking love you TC.
I believe it was in like blueink or something or like that.
That's even cooler, Right, whatI'm envisioning, it's probably not at all
(10:07):
what she had, but what I'menvisioning is just I'm envisioning like a massive
TC, Like it's really ornate thattakes of like fucking as much of her
form. Yeah, Like it's basicallyon her forehead at this point. Yeah,
that's exactly what I'm fixturing. Hangingswere then outlawed all across Britain,
(10:31):
which meant that the couple lost theirmain source of income. They were in
and out of work houses for money, and both Thomas and Catherine began drinking
very heavily, like they had noother source of income but these like Gallows
ballads, and then when hanging wasoutlawed, they were like, oh fucking
shit, so they just had noother option but to go into workhouses.
(10:54):
I just don't understand if you canbe good at writing Gallows ballads, why,
well, like a Gallows ballad whenI thought about it, because I
was like, the fuck is aguve ballad? And then I like googled
it and like, basically like aGallows ballad was like what was written about
leather Apron in the first episode wherethat was like when he was caught.
(11:20):
I can't even find it, soI can't even tell you what it was,
but it was like basically like hedid it, something has to be
hanged. But it was like wrotein like a rhythm, you know,
But why can't you just write othermusic? I don't. I don't know,
Okay, I don't know. Instead, they were like, oh,
fucking shit, we'll just have tostart drinking really heavily and start entering workhouses.
(11:43):
The couple had a son in eighteenseventy three, and from my knowledge,
they I read like a conflicting Onearticle said that they had like two
daughters and two sons, and thenanother article just mentioned two daughters and one
son. So they got kids,they got kids, okay, when tom
(12:07):
as I said, they were drinkingvery heavily. When Thomas was drunk,
he would actually beat Catherine and thisled to the relationship breaking down naturally because
he's a base of a shit fuckerand she got your name tattootnia. Yeah,
well your initials, but samely.Catherine and Thomas eventually separated, and
Catherine took their two daughters with her. She had nowhere to go, so
(12:33):
she was just living on the streets, so she had to place her daughters
in with family. Her family werelike, we're not taking you because you're
a fucking mess, but we'll takethe kids. Oh well that's something.
Yeah, I was like, tobe fair, she was a bit of
a mess, so yeah, Imean she lost all of her jobs all
the time, so yeah, theycouldn't trust her at that point, No,
(12:54):
he's supposed to do exactly. Catherine'sdrinking worse, and she began working
the streets as a prostitute, asa lady of the night. She was
arrested a couple of times for thisand also for drunken disorderly. This is
getting like even sadder. Her storyis getting worse. All of these women
that were murdered, their stories areso depressing and like sad, and I
(13:18):
get it. It's a shit timeto be alive in the eighteen hundreds.
But men, Jeemes, Louise,Yeah, it's it's rough. Catherine then
met John Kelly. He was asalesman. He didn't drink, and he
was a seemingly nice man who wasbesotted with Catherine. Oh that's good for
her, it's I think. Shewas just like, yeah, you're all
(13:41):
right, and he was like,you're the love of my life. She
was like sure, same sees yeah, okay, I mean, do you
have money? How broke are youdo? It didn't take long for Catherine
(14:03):
to move in with him. Shewas still going by Catherine Conway though for
the most part, but would occasionallyanswer to Katherine Kelly, which I just
think is so cruel, like he'sde sodded with her. She's like,
so my ex husband was like,pretty cool, it's pretty awesome. You
want to know how many questions youcan do? And he's like, you
(14:26):
moved a light of my life,like she ekesperienced it. Yeah, and
she's like, did you know tamasConway he wrote those gallons? Yeah?
You heard that one about leather apron. You heard that one. Yeah?
That was him, That was thatwas him, That was him. I
helped I was there. I shouldn'tmock because this woman's about to have a
(14:50):
really awful death. I just couldn'thelp myself with that. The couple would
stay in lodging houses together, andthey would also enter work houses together,
but they would go off and dotheir own thing too, so like they
would basically just go off try toearn as much money as they could and
then need up to go stay inthe lodging houses, which I guess is
(15:13):
like kind of like not that bizarrefor the time, because you just,
yeah, what are you gonna do? Everybody just needed money so badly that
it was just like Okay, I'llmeet you at this time at this place,
and we'll put our money together andhopefully we'll have enough money for a
room. By the summer of eighteeneighty eight, they were common law married,
(15:35):
which basically meant that they were cohabitingfor so long that they were just
in the eyes of the government,they were considered married. Oh my god,
that's still a thing, because Ireally hope it is. Because what
is a common law marriage? Theterm common law marriage or first your relationship
between two people who decide to gohabitate and present themselves as a married couple
(16:00):
without the benefit of legal ceremony andmarriage certificate. But how long? Seven
years? Is it? Actually sevenyears? It is? Yeah, So
you and Ilen common law married.Throwing February. I'm gonna celebrate the day.
It was the first of February.We moved in together seven years ago.
(16:22):
Okay, the first of February.We're throwing you a marriage perfect,
perfect and Jill, the couple gotworked together in Kent to go hop picking,
which is what it sounds like wherethey went and they picked hops for
the beers. So the couple walkedthe forty miles to Kent, did their
(16:42):
work, stayed there for a fewweeks, and then they walked home back
to Whitechapel. This had been thefirst time that the couple actually spent like
that much time together, because normallythey would spend like hours a part,
yeah, trying to like find differentwork where this time they were working like
(17:04):
with one another. It's reported thatthey didn't get on so well and that
they were arguing quite a bit.They arrived back in London on September twenty
seventh, eighteen eighty eight, andJohn went into a lodging house. Catherine
went to join a workhouse to tryto earn a little extra money. When
(17:25):
she got to the workhouse, shewent up to the superintendent and told him
that she was there to collect thereward for the White Chapel murders because quote,
I think I know him. Thesuperintendent warned her to be careful that
she didn't end up a victim,and she replied, quote, don't worry,
No fear for that, No fearof that. Ooh no, don't
(17:49):
like that foreshadowing. Yeah. OnSeptember twenty ninth, eighteen eighty eight,
Catherine met John for breakfast before goingoff to do a few of her few
bits and pieces, a few jobshere and there, a few errands.
They planned to meet up later onthat day, and they did at around
two pm, and Catherine told Johnthat she was going to see her daughter
(18:12):
because she wanted to go ask herfor money, and that she would be
back more roughly around four pm.So at around four pm she was back
in Whitechapel and she was seen onProstitute Island, which is basically just like
an area where Yeah, I know, it's basically just an area where sex
(18:33):
workers gathered to try get some work. I mean, fair enough, but
who fucking called it. I'm viewingit as like an I'm viewing it as
like a roundabout that like all thewomen stood on. I fully imagined a
full islands like Lost style. Nice. Catherine was described as very drunk and
(18:56):
was reportedly imitating a fire engine.Okay, yeah, this is now what
a fire engine sounded like in eighteeneighty eight. It's not to my knowledge.
Can we please search. I'm like, I don't know what I'm expecting
to be honest, I'm imagining justsome guy hanging off it going we okay,
(19:23):
horse fire engine nineteen oh eight.Let's see, Well we're in eighteen
eighty eight, but I'm sure it'llbe close enough. Yeah, it's literally
a horse drawn carriage. God,we all have boddy hats on. That's
lit. I really want to knowwhat it Okay, well, this is
what was reported. Again, Ido not know what a fire engine would
(19:47):
have sounded like back then. Wasn'ta proper fire engine, was it.
But how andever, that's what wasreported. So that's what I'm going to
tell y'all. At around eight thirtypm, she was arrested by two police
officers. They had found her lyingon the ground extremely intoxicated. When they
(20:11):
asked her what her name was,she replied nothing. She was put in
a cell and she was left thereto sober up. At twelve thirty am,
she asked the police officers when theyintended to let her leave, and
she was told that she could leavewhen she was able to look after herself.
At around one am, she wasdischarged and let go. When police
(20:33):
asked for her name, she toldthem it was Mary Anne Kelly of six
Fashioned Street. Oh doesn't I yourname is it Helenepha? Oh? Well
yeah. Then as she was walkingat the door of the police station,
she turned around and said, ohright, good night, o'cock. Oh
(20:55):
I feel like that. I feellike that's a warm greeting for some reason.
Yeah. I don't see it aslike an insult. I see that
as her just being like super English. Yeah, like old timey. Yeah,
yeah, yeah it. At onethirty five am, Catherine was seen
walking down a street called Church Passageby three men. They saw her talking
(21:18):
with a man of medium build.He was wearing a gray jacket with a
red scarf and a gray hat withpeak on it. Catherine had her hands
on the man's chest. Less thanten minutes later, Catherine's body was found
mutilated and disembelled Jesus. Her headwas turned to the left shoulder by her
(21:41):
with her arms by her side.Her clothes were above her waist and her
left leg was extended. Her throathad been cut and her intestines had been
removed. They'd been placed lying overher right shoulder. She'd been cut from
rectum to sternum. Her right earhad been cut off. Both eyelids had
(22:06):
been sliced open. She had acush from the bridge of her nose to
the cheek, to her cheek,and then down to her chin. The
tip of her nose had been cutoff. Her lip had been cut in
half down to her gum underneath hereyes, where two small triangles had been
cut out with some skin like flappingover them. Her left kidney had been
(22:30):
removed and it was not at thecrime scene. What the hell? Oh
this is like less than ten minutesright. The killer had also stabbed Catherine
in the vagina, liver, andrectum. He sliced her right tie up
to her labia. It was concludedthat Catherine had died from her throat being
(22:52):
cut and everything else had been donepostmortem. A piece of her apron was
also cut off and taken. Policebelieved they'll found the piece of apron about
ten minutes away from the crime scene, and it appeared as if it was
used to clean the killer's knife.Then in any way where the apron had
(23:14):
been found. Wrote on the wallin chalk was quote, the Jews are
not the men that will be blamedfor nothing. Okay, So there's a
lot of anti seminism during like goingon. Now. I don't talk about
the policing and the investigating in thiscrime because when I tell you it's a
(23:36):
hot mess, it's a hot mess. But it's eighteen eighty eight and I
don't expect anything less. Yeah,fair fair enough, and the like lead
detective was like, I was unstressedlyI would be do if I was the
lead detective of the fucking Jackie Rippercase. Nah, babes, I'm out.
(24:00):
He's like unstressed. Leave when thishappened. When Catherine Edo's is like
murdered and he's like fucking like Paris, They're like, you know you got
to get out. Nah no,I do not need to go anywhere.
I amn't going to enjoy my stress. Leave. But so the like officers
(24:23):
wanted to take a photo of whatwas wrote in the chalk like on the
wall, but it was too darkto take the photo. They would have
had to wait a few hours forit to be led out because obviously this
is eighteen eighty eight and their chemistscan only do so much. Yeah,
(24:45):
and so they certain police officers wantedto wait to take a photo, but
then like higher up detectives basically madethe decision to wipe it all off the
wall. Oh, it would haveincited Their claims were that it would have
incited like something because it was ananti Jewish remark and like tensions were high
(25:08):
and he was like, it's gotto get off the walls. Now I
don't remember like names and stuff,but basically, like one detective was like,
can we not just like wipe offthe word jew? Mmm, we'll
know it says jew. Take aphoto of it and then remove wipe it
(25:32):
all off. But basically the leaddetective that was there that was like in
charge, because the actual lead detectivewas off and fucking stressed a bat a
goal, he just basically was like, Nope, remove it and removed it.
Didn't ideal. That's not the bestscenario. Like, and to be
(25:55):
fair to like the detectives that waslike, can we not just like remove
the word jew? We'll know thatit says jew, so we'll know.
Yeah, because then they're like,people won't know that it's out and we
can just take a photo. Wecan just say we find it like that,
but we'll know that it actually saidyou. And then that means whoever
wrote it is possibly the killer.We'll know it said jew. Actually,
(26:17):
yeah, that's another point as well. Yeah, that's great, but it's
eighteen eighty eight. If we've learnedanything about policing in the fucking nineties.
If it's not good in the nineteennineties, it's not good in the eighteen
hundreds. Before I go any Frida, We'll just take a quick at break
and we're back. The media andthe police began receiving letters allegedly from the
(26:41):
killer. I have these letters.Oh lay it on me baby. On
September twenty eighth, eighteen eighty eight, the Central News Agency in London received
the first letter. Now, theCentral News Agency isn't a news it it's
like head of the news outlets.So like it's like you have from my
(27:07):
understanding back then, It's like andobviously these weren't the newspapers that are around,
but these are the ones that Iknow, So these are the ones
that I'm going to use. It'slike the Sun and the Mirror are a
part of the Central News Agency,right, They're like an umbrella. Yeah.
Yeah, So they received to theletter, okay, which people find
(27:30):
strange because why would they receive theletter not the actual newspaper. I guess
to make sure it went out toevery possible source. God of maybe maybe
The letter was dated September twenty fifth, eighteen eighty eight, and this letter
is known as the Dear Boss letter. Dear Boss, I keep hearing the
(27:52):
police have caught me, but theywon't fix me just yet. I have
laughed when they look up, whenthey look so clad and talk about being
on the right track. The jokeabout leather apron gave me real fits.
I am down on whores, andI shan't quit ripping until I get buckled
grant work. The last job wasI gave the lady no time to squeal?
(28:15):
How can they catch me now?I love my work and I want
to start again. You will soonhear of me with my funny little games.
I saved some of the proper stuffin a ginger beer bottle over the
last job to write with, butit went thick like glue and I can't
use it. Red ink is fitenough, I hope. Hah. The
next job I do, I shallclip the lady's ear off and send them
(28:37):
to the police officers, just forjolly. Wouldn't you keep this letter back
till I do a bit more work, then give it out straight. My
knive's so nice and sharp, andI want to get to work right away
if I can get a chance.Good luck yours, truly, Jack the
ripper, don't mind me giving thetrade name. PS wasn't good enough to
(29:00):
post this before I got the redink off my hands, criss it no
look yet they say I'm a doctornow, ha ha. I don't get
the PS part, he wrote.He wrote the letters in red ink,
and so he's basically like, Ican't get this goose stuff off me.
We didn't need to know that,Jack. Then on October first, eighteen
(29:25):
eighty eight, a postcard was sentto the Central News Agency. Again there
there appeared to be blood smeared allover the postcard, and this became known
as the Sausage Jack letter. Iwas not caught in dear old boss,
when I gave you the tip,you'll hear about saucy Jack's work tomorrow.
Double event. This time Number onesquealed a bit, couldn't finished straight off,
(29:47):
had no time to get years offfor police. Thanks for keeping last
letter back until I got to workagain, Jack the Ripper. The next
letter was sent to the chairman ofthe Whitechapel Vigilance Committee, which had been
set up as an almost like communitywatch program that we're like trying to catch
(30:11):
the murderer fair m The letter wasaccompanied with a small package. In the
package was a little bit of akidney, Just a little bit of a
kidney, just a little bit ofa kidney and buy you a little bit.
I mean half half a kidney.Oh, where's the rest of it?
(30:33):
That's what's scary. Yeah, yep. If you remember Catherine Edams was
missing her kidney, she was sothis letter is one of the most famous
letters, and it is the fromHell letter and it was sent on October
sixteenth, eighteen eighty eight. MisterLusk, sir, I sent you half
(30:53):
the kidney I took from one woman, preserved it for you to other piece.
I fry and ate it. Itwas very nice. I may send
you the bloody knife that took itout, if only you wait a while
longer. Signed catch me if youcan, mister Lusk, catch me if
you can, mister Horns. Thekidney was sent to doctor Openshaw or Openshaw
(31:18):
however you want to say his name, a local pathological creator. He confirmed
that the kidney was in fact humanand very possibly came from Cathernetto's. It
was the correct size and it wasfrom it. I think the kidney was
taken from her right side, Ithink, and this was like a right
(31:41):
kidney, so they were like,it's their right shape, the right size,
it's from the same side, like, it's very like I'd say they
were probably like ninety nine percent sureas Cathernetto's. But again, I'm sorry,
I hit my mic again. It'seighteen eighty eight, Like they're not
doing tests like we're doing now,so they can never be one hundred percent
(32:04):
sure back then. Yeah, it'sjust like it fit. Yeah, it's
sup puzzled. How many people arelosing kidneys these days, you know,
in eighteen eighty eight, probably alot more than you expect. Yeah,
you know what, you're probably rightthere. But then on October twenty ninth,
eighteen eighty eight, doctor Oppenshaw receiveda letter from Jack the Ripper,
(32:25):
Old boss. He was right,it was the left kidney. I'm sorry
they will it's from the left side, old boss. You was right,
it was the left kidney. Iwas going to operate again and close to
your close to you hospital. Sorry, the like first two letters are rotten
wroten on. Oh. The firsttwo letters are written like properly, and
(32:52):
then the next few are like writtenlike really bad. I was going to
operate. He got confused for operatinghospital. Okay, yeah, just as
I was going to draw my knifealonger bloom and throat, then cusses of
Copper's spoilt the game. But Iguess I will be on the job soon
(33:15):
and we'll send you another bit ofinards Jack the Ripper. Oh have you
seen the devil with his microscope andscalpel a looking at a kidney with a
slide cocked up? Okay, yep. Now, there's a lot of skepticism
about how authentic these letters are.Many people believe most of them are fake,
(33:37):
and most people believe that the onlyletter to be real is the from
Hell letter. It's the one thatdoesn't address himself as Jack the Ripper.
It's the only one where he justgives information. Here's a kidney, Like
(33:58):
it's literally like, here's the kidney. I preserved it. I fired Nat
the other piece. It was nice. I'll send you my knife if you
want. I don't know what elseyou want me to do. Yeah,
I am all the other ones.It's like old Boss and you know,
like very like theatrical, Yeah,very it's getting like BTK vibes, like
(34:23):
naming himself and stuff. Yeah,and only BTK what do that? Yeah?
Oh wait, didn't the X Manof New Orleans. No, he
didn't. He wrote just ro letters. Oh, he wrote theatrical letters,
but he didn't name himself the XMan. I don't think he did.
His letters are my favorite. Hisletters were the shit. Yeah. So
(34:45):
most people believe that the from Hellletter is the only one that might be
real, and that is why itis the most famous one. So most
people know about the from Hell Letter. They might know about the rest,
but a lot of people, likewhen you talk about Jack the Ripper,
know about that one. Then onNovember ninth, eighteen eighty eight, the
last and the youngest victim was foundin her was found mutilated in her bed.
(35:12):
Mary Jane Kelly was born in eighteensixty three in Limerick, Ireland.
When she was young, her fathermoved the family to Wales to try and
escape the Irish famine. At sixteenyears of age, Mary met John Davis.
He was a coal miner. Maryand John eventually got married. Mary
(35:36):
then claimed that John had died ina coal mining explosion, and she then
went off and moved to Cardiff withher cousin, but it is believed that
John was still alive. When shemoved to Cardiff, Mary was struggling to
make some money, so she turnedto sex work. She claimed that she
(35:58):
had spent nine months in Cardiff ininfirmary of a mystery illness, but there's
no real report of this, andthen she said that she had to work
at the infirmary to pay for herlike hospital bills. In eighteen eighty four,
Mary decided to move to London fora fresh start. She jumped from
job to job, never lasting long. She eventually got a job as a
(36:22):
lady's maid, which essentially just meantthat she was working in a brothel.
She was very popular with customers thereand had a lot of regulars. Francis
Craig was one of her many regulars, and he was a job as an
He had a job as an editorof a local newspaper, but he had
been fired for stealing other people's work. That's no good, don't do that.
(36:45):
I hate when people do that,I know, right. He asked
Mary to move with him to Pariswhere he would get her a job,
where he would get her a betterpaying job in a gentleman's club. So
she went with him and was likefuck it, why not. She didn't
last very long and she decided thatshe wanted to go home to London,
(37:06):
so the couple went so the twoof them came home and they got married
on Christmas Eve. The marriage onlylasted about three months before Mary just up
and left Francis. Oh okay,yep, she moved to the East end
of London. Francis hired a privateinvestigator to try to find Mary, and
(37:27):
he found her. And when hefound her, she was working the streets
as a sex worker. Mary wenton to get work in different brothels.
Nothing like all she could kind ofget was sex work, and this enraged
Frances and he was at one stageconsidered a suspect in her murder. Yeah,
(37:49):
well, he seemed like he needa real problem with her. Mary
began drinking a lot and eventually lefther job at the bottle. She was
bouncing around the lodging houses when sheeventually met Joseph Burnett. The couple met
at a pub called the Ten Bells, which is still open to this day.
Ah, that's nice. They veryquickly decided to move in together.
(38:14):
They rented an apartment at thirteen Miller'sCourt, which was a very rough area.
Joseph wanted to be the provider forthe couple. He wanted to keep
Mary off working the streets like hewas like, let me work as hard
as I can so you do nothave to go out and work in these
like horrific conditions. We bless hissoul. He however, lost his job
(38:37):
in the summer of eighteen eighty eight, and the couple had no other choice
but for Mary to start sex workagain. By autumn eighteen eighty eight,
the couple had begun to fight alot. Mary's drinking had gotten very bad,
and she actually began letting friends stayin the apartment with her and Joseph
when they had no money for lodginghouses. And when I call this an
(38:58):
apartment, it is not. It'san eighteen eighty eight apartment. Yeah.
It literally fits a single bed,a chair, and like a circular side
table, small table, and ithas a fireplace in it. And she's
like letting friends stay there because theydon't have money for lodging houses. And
(39:21):
she's like, sure, just comespend the night with me, it's fine,
And then like Joseph's like, yeah, where where do you expect this
to be? Like what? Josepheventually had enough when Mary led a woman
that they barely knew stay in theapartment, and he left Mary in October
eighteen eighty eight, which like,look, I kind of understand you barely
(39:47):
know this woman, like you're lettinga stranger stay in our house. They
remain friends, though, and Josephtried to give Mary money to help her
with rent and stuff whenever he hadany spare. That's nice, it is
nice. He went to go seeMary on October seventh, eighteen eighty eight,
(40:09):
and it is believed that he gaveher some money and that was the
last time he saw her. Marywas seen out drinking the next night at
several pubs. She had been seena lot with different men that night,
and it is believed that she waslate in her rent. So rent was
due the like following day and shewas super behind, and so she basically
(40:32):
went to work the streets to tryto get as much money as she could
to pay the back rent that sheowed. At around eleven forty five PM,
a neighbor saw Mary arrive home witha man that was described as a
stout man roughly in his thirties.He had a mustache, and he was
hiding a beer under his coat.How did she know that? I know,
(40:52):
right, sleigh neighbors, could thisis also a sleigh neighbors could hear
her singing old Irish songs until aboutone am. Well, yeah, I
mean Dublin's Fair City where the girlsare so pretty. I first set my
eyes on sweet Molly alone. IfI ever have a child, I can't
(41:14):
name her Molly. Oh you reallycan't. Oh, and I like that
name. Mary's neighbor that lived aboveher woke up between three and four am
as her cat had been startled bysomething. That is, when she heard
someone shid murder. Oh, butI heard nothing after that and just went
(41:37):
back to bed. Now this indicatesjust how rough Whitechapel was that at three
in the morning, you're hearing someone'sshape murder and you're just like, oh,
what the fuck's going on out there? And then you roll over and
you go by sleep. Yeah.Yeah, I'd probably do the same to
(41:58):
be fair in Malta. Yeah,Like it just goes to show like what
they were living in that like tothem, that's just like a fucking nightly
occurrence. Yeah. Then on Novemberninth, eighteen eighty eight, at around
ten thirty am, the landlord's assistantknocked on Mary's door to collect overdue rent.
(42:21):
No one answered, so he wentaround the corner to look in the
window, and that is when hesaw the rippers last and by far worst
crime. Police were called immediately.They were unable to enter Mary's apartment as
the lock on her door had broken. Her and Joseph had gotten into a
fight many months before and it ledto their window breaking. There was only
(42:45):
one window into the apartment, andit ended up that the window broke,
and that's how they were entering andexiting. No, that's how they were
entering their apartment. So the lock, the lock of the apartment like just
locked once you closed the door,so they could leave that through the door.
They couldn't get back in because theyknow key'd get back in, so
(43:07):
they were like going back in throughthe window to open the door to let
the other in. Okay. Ittook a while for police to kind of
figure it away in because they werelike, hey, do we get in
here without like fucking up the crimescene. So eventually they just hadn't.
Eventually police us entered the apartment throughthe window. They noticed how hot the
(43:29):
room was, and that was becausethe killer left the fire blazing, which
meant that he was that long gone. Mary's body was lying in the middle
of her bed, surrounded by apool of blood. Her head was facing
the left. There was a cuton her throat from left to right.
(43:50):
The surface of her abdomen and partof her insides were missing and placed all
around the room. The abdomen cavitywas completely emptied of its viscera. Her
breasts were cut off and her armswere mutilated. Her uterus and kidneys,
along with one breast, was placedunder her head. The other breast was
beside her right foot. The liverwas placed in between her feet, and
(44:15):
the intestines were on the right ofher body, and her spleen was placed
to the left. There had beenflaps of skin that the killer had placed
on the table. There was bloodall over the walls beside the bed.
Mary's ears, nose, cheeks,and eyebrows had all been partially removed.
(44:36):
Her lips had been blanched, Hervagina was more or less removed from her
body. Her heart had been removedand it was not at the crime scene.
After news broke of Mary's murder,witnesses began coming forward. One one
friend came forward and said that hehad seen her at around two am the
night of her murder. She hadasked him for a lend of money,
(44:59):
but he was also looking for moneyfor a lodging house. Mary then went
on and found herself another client forthe night, and he was described as
all the other sightings of the Ripperbefore dark features average build, average height,
dark clothing, carrying a package.The witness said that he followed Mary
(45:20):
and her client back to the apartmentand he waited for a while, and
it was basically because she let friendsstay with her. He was like,
oh, maybe when she's finished withthe client, she'll let me stay the
night, because I have no moneyfor a lodging house. But he said
he was their ages and there wasno sign of anyone coming out of the
house, so he just left,okay. These victims of Jack the Ripper
(45:44):
are known as the canonical five.Some people believe that there are more.
There had been two murders in Whitechapelbefore the death of Polly Nichols. That
was Emma Smith, who died Aprilthird, eighteen eighty eight, and Martha
Tabrum who died August seventh, eighteeneighty eight. Then there had been four
(46:07):
more murders after the death of Mary, Jane, Kelly Rose, Marlette died
December twentieth, eighteen eighty eight.Alice Mackenzie died July seventeenth, eighteen eighty
nine, the Pinchin Street torso whichwas found September tenth, eighteen eighty nine,
which was basically just a torso foundunder a bridge, and Francis Coyle,
(46:32):
who had died February thirteenth, eighteenninety one. It has always been
difficult to find out when exactly Jackthe Ripper started his killing spray and when
he ended it. It's never beendiscovered who he was or why he stopped.
Some people believe that he moved away. Others think he died or maybe
(46:54):
he was institutionalized. There are manysuspect in this case. I've just picked
out a few who I think,not even who I think did it,
just a few that I was like, interesting, Yeah. Montaque, John
(47:14):
Droot Montaque was an English barrister whowas not from Whitechapel. Now a lot
of people believe that the killer hadto have been from Whitechapel to basically know
the streets so well to kill someonein fourteen minutes and then like never be
(47:37):
seen. But you have to knowthe streets. But John, although he
wasn't from Whitechapel. He was seena lot in the area around the time
of the murders. He was describedas sexually insane. Oh yeah, okay,
(47:59):
and under said by ninth eighteen eightyeight he had killed himself by drowning
himself in the River Thams. Thismight explain why the murders had stopped.
But he's not from Whitechapel, andto be honest, there was no real
reason why people thought he was justsexually insane. So they're like, imagine,
(48:19):
now you have one partner and theygo around telling everybody think you're secondly
insane. Just so if you gota little kinky, you got a little
freaky with it. Iconic Aaron Kuzminskiwas a Polish barber who reportedly heard voices
and suffered from hallucinations. He wassent to an asylum to an asylum after
threatening silence with a knife. Ineighteen ninety one, DNA had been tested
(48:45):
from a piece of fabric that believedto have come from Catherine Edo's shawl.
It was found to be a matchwith Aaron. However, the type of
blood test that was conducted is notvery accurate and is more so used as
a way of ruling out suspects,not a way of confirming. I don't
(49:12):
know a whole pile about DNA,So that's the best information that I can
give you, Okay, fair.It's also believed that the piece of fabric
may not even be from Catherine Edow'sshawl. The material of the fabric is
believed to not have been made untilafter eighteen eighty eight. But some like
rich guy bought this at like auction, and it was auctioned as like Jack
(49:40):
the Ripper's victim clothing item, Sothat's why he bought it. And then
he went and he got it tested, and they were like, yeah,
that's got Iron Kazminski's DNA on it, but it doesn't do you know what
I mean? It like it mightbe his DNA, but it also might
(50:02):
be someone with just a similar DNApattern. Yeah, was it like blood
type that they were looking at,like ab or I don't really know.
From my understanding of it. It'slike me and you, even though we're
not related, we could have asimilar like we could have similar markers that
(50:23):
make up our DNA and so,but like Cottle could have completely different markers.
And so the type of test wouldbe done would be to rule cattle
out as a suspect, not ruleus in as a suspect. Yeah,
I get you. James Kelly hadmurdered his wife in eighteen eighty three by
(50:49):
stabbing her in the neck. Hewas committed to broad More Insane Asylum,
and he managed to escape in earlyeighteen eighty eight. He was known for
having a strong hatred of sex workers, and police couldn't find him. Oh,
it wasn't until he turned himself inin nineteen twenty seven. Excuse me,
(51:17):
nineteen twenty six. I'm surprised youlived that long. Same and he
told police, quote, I've beenon the war path since Broadmoor. He
died in nineteen twenty nine from naturalcauses, and the only reason most people
suspect him is because the way hemurdered his wife. He stabbed her in
(51:40):
the throat, and all of Jackthe Ripper's victims had their throats cut.
However, it doesn't explain why hejust all of a sudden stopped but didn't
hand himself in until nineteen twenty seven. Yeah, unless you went somewhere else
or got sick or something. WalterSecret was an artist who was well known
(52:02):
for his paintings of prostitute he has. He has very famous paintings. He
painted scenes that when you matched themup with crime scene photos of Ripper murders,
they seemed to align. Oh oh, I don't like that. A
(52:23):
lot of people believe that this wasWalter's way of leaving clues in his paintings
that he was, in fact Jackthe Ripper. And he has a painting
that's called what's called it's called likeJack the Ripper's Bedroom or something like that.
But that's because he was staying ina room and the woman that ran
(52:45):
it was like, this was Jackthe Repper's room. It was indicated that
Walter was impotent, impotent, impotent? Why'd I say it like that?
Important? He was in potent,and that this was why he would attack
sex workers because it reminded him ofhis pain of not being able to get
(53:07):
it up. Yeah, that's right, just take it out on women.
Yeap. Walter's DNA was found ona stamp from one of the Ripper's letters.
Again, it was the same DNAtesting that had been done on Catherine
edo'shawl So not at all one hundredpercent. Now we talked about Jack the
(53:28):
Ripper letters possibly being fake. Yes, so if they wear fake, it's
very believable that he just wrote onefor one of the news outlets for funzies.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Soit's like not at all out of
the realm of possibility that he didwrite a letter and that that is his
(53:49):
DNA on the stamp. It wasstrongly believed that it was not Jack the
Ripper, but it was Dring theRipper. Oh, I haven't heard this
theory. A witness in Mary JaneKelly's murder came forward and said that she
saw Mary at eight am on Novemberninth, nineteen eighty eight. No,
(54:12):
not nineteen eighty eight, eighteen eightyeight. However, Mary was already dead
by that stage, because it's believedshe died between three and four am.
The witness said that she talked toMary and she remembered seeing her again at
nine am with a man like Shewas like, no, Like I talked
(54:34):
to her, like, I askedher, hey, how are you like?
You know? Look, she waslike, I had a conversation with
her, like I saw her.But the police were like, no,
because she was dead, didn't seeher the fuck. This led to the
theory that the murderer was, infact a midwife. It was commonly thought
(54:59):
that the ripper had medical knowledge withhow the organs had been taken out seamlessly
and in such a short space oftime. It would not have been questioned
if you saw a midwife walking aroundwith blood in her clothes back in eighteen
eighty eight. And it's believed thatwhat this witness saw was the killer wearing
(55:21):
Mary's clothes, walking around pretending tobe her after she murdered her. Oh
that's fucked up, right, yeah, personally, Like I don't believe that,
but also what an interesting theory.It's an interesting theory. But like,
yeah, I mean people have completelydifferent faces. Like I could be
(55:44):
wearing the exact same clothes as you, and nobody's going to mix up.
So the girl that saw her hadonly like she knew her, but it
only saw her a handful of times, right, and like it was more
so of an acquaintance than a friend, and so you know, was like,
no, like, I'm pretty sureit was her that I saw.
(56:05):
Like I talked to her, Iasked her, Hey, Mary, how
are you? And your one repliedand was like oh good, thanks,
are you? Blah blah, blah. But then eighteen eighty eight, like
half a y'all are called Mary.Yeah, true, very true. Now
the most famous suspect is HH Holmes. Yes, for those of you who
(56:27):
don't know, he was a notoriouskiller in America. He had a medical
degree, which fit the theory aboutthe killer, and he also fits the
description. It is strongly suspected thathe was in London in eighteen eighty eight,
around the time of the murders.There is a ship log that has
A H. Holmes heading back toAmerica in November eighteen eighty eight, which
(56:52):
would explain why the murders stopped.And during eighteen eighty eight to eighteen eighty
nine, Holmes did not commit anycrimes in America. He did at one
point claim that he was the Ripper, but he was known for lying about
killing people, and he was knownlike for lying about like he'd be like,
(57:14):
oh, I killed them, andthen like the police would go check
it out and the person would belike, no, I'm not dead.
I'm very much Oh God, Okay. Now the EMMO of Jack the Ripper
does not match the EMMO of Holmes. We killed for insurance money, yeah,
and he never wants targeted sex workers, and he did not kill in
(57:37):
a violent way as Jack the Ripperkilled. Yeah, he didn't really like
to get his hands dirty from whatI remember. No, Unfortunately, we
may never know who committed these horrible, horrific crimes one hundred and thirty four
years ago. Not, my friends, is Jack the Ripper. That was
(58:00):
really good, Thank you. Iwas very proud of that episode, but
I'm also super excited for the nextone. Bye bye way, guys.
Neave, as per usual, iscarrying the podcast on her back, not
at all doing all of the episodes. I've don't do the research, but
(58:21):
you you edit it, and i'dbeen last taking edit it. So if
you super duper enjoyed this episode,make sure to go check out our other
stuff. Last week obviously was Jackthe Ripper Part one, and the week
before that was Emmanuela or Landy.If you enjoyed it and then you're like,
wow, these girls are great,I can't wait to hear next week's
(58:44):
episode because I've already listened to everythingelse. You can always like subscribe to
us and like get notifications of whenlike our episodes come. O. Shit,
you could you could totally do that, you know where to find us.
You can find us where wherever youget your podcast wherever you're currently listening
to us, such as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Hashtag sponsors please. You
(59:09):
can also find us on Instagram,our Twitter, or Facebook or TikTok but
I'm not very active on TikTok,but over there and all at give us
More. If you want to seewho you're listening to, you can check
out our own personal instagrams which isat Megpile, Underscore or at life as
Neve. And if you ever wantedto support the podcast, you can always
(59:32):
check out our website www dot giveusmorg dot com, where there is merch
available to purchase if you wish.If you don't, that's also fine,
and don't be afraid to leave usa review and if you've any suggestions,
also, don't be afraid to sendus your suggestions. Yeah, or if
you'd be pretty sweet, it'd bepretty great. Mm hmmm hm. We
(59:55):
super appreciate you guys. We reallyhope you're being safe this Halloween in season
mm hmm. Doping mess fireworks such, it's dangerous. Don't and make sure
you check all your mars bars forsyringes czer I'm gonna go eat a curry,
(01:00:15):
enjoy, enjoy. I had aMcDonald's earlier. Ten out of ten.
Okay, we'll see you on theflip side, you guys, see
you, Silantia
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