The Alexander Family

Hello all! We're coming back from our impromptu break with an older case, "The Alexander Family".

Definitely not for the faint of heart, this case covers incest and murder.

Sources:
The Creepiest Family Cult Ever. Incest, homicide…Ugh! Don’t blame me if… | by Aravind Balakrishnan | ILLUMINATION | Medium
The 'Crime of the Century' of the Alexander family: messianic madness, rituals and incest
Harald and Frank Alexander
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Lorber

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
So how do we talk about thebreak. We were just taking the summer
off. I have a child whofinished school, and you have a job,
had family over and stuff and differentthings, and so we just decided
to take the summer off because autumnusmora vibes. Anyway, It honestly is.

(00:21):
We drive between between the months oflike mid August to like mid December,
We're like, fuck, yeah,anyways, we're back. Me I'm

(00:50):
Megan, welcome back to give usmorgue. You guys, did you miss
us? I bet they wanted more? He hit it. I mean it
to be fair, guys, Iwas going to say we've gone a whole
three years without using that, butno, I think we've definitely said something
along those lines before, probably whenwe came back from a long break.

(01:12):
To listen, we deserve breaks too, you know, life is for living,
babes. We gotta do it.I gotta do it. No,
not that I'd be doing like awhole lot of crazy shit. Like I'm
like, they bullied me at workthe other day because I was like,

(01:32):
oh, I love going to thecinema. It's like it's an outing,
it's an experience, and they're like, Megan, she needs to leave the
house more. But the cinema isn'touting you get your popcorn. Last time,
I went to see the Barbie Movie, which was brilliant, by the
way. Spoilers Okay, no,no, I won't say anything, but

(01:53):
I will tell you to wear waterproofmascara. We haven't had a chance to
go see it just because child andall. That makes it difficult. But
I'm really I really want to seeit. I was talking to somebody here
and they were like, Oh,I don't want to go see it because
it's just about her, like tryingto get feeling back in her what did

(02:13):
she call it, her new newI was like, what, I hadn't
even seen the movie at this point, and I was like, first of
all, how is that different tothe Little Mermaid? Isn't a little Mermaid
just trying to fuck? Isn't shetrying to get her legs and her to
dance or to marry whatever? Theprince. I'm so confused by that statement.

(02:37):
Yeah, where did you even getthat from? Okay, we've done
a very brief catch up, butI'm sure we'll catch up more as the
show goes on. But the showdoes have to go on. So today
I have a case. Now.One of the big reasons why I've taken
such a long break, but likewe've taken such a long break is because

(03:00):
true crime is getting It's just it'svery heavy, I think, as everybody
knows, and we all need tosometimes take a break from even listening to
true crime. Yeah. I waswatching Bailey Sarrian the other day and even
like she was like she was onabout Lori Valos finally being convicted, and
she was like, there's a lothappening in the true crime world right now,

(03:23):
like present day, and I thinkit's just made it like extra difficult
to research and stuff. Yeah,it definitely has. And then I think,
I don't, are we all justhaving the same anxiety this year?
It's like the pandemic is Like Inever I was one of those teenagers and

(03:44):
young adults. I was like,what is anxiety? You know, Yeah,
you felt maybe nervous before an interview, But now I will wake up
and I'm like, oh, where'sthat medication? Can't leave the house unless
I take that little pink pills.Companies to date met that day guy.

(04:08):
Yeah, Yeah, I don't knowif it's like the effects of the pandemic
and as we return back to likeit's almost like a new normal life.
It's not fully normal as pre pandemic, but it's like more normal than during
the pandemic. But now it's like, what keeps making that noise? What

(04:29):
is the noise? I don't know. It sounds like it's coming from like
a computer, but nothing is likepopping up on my computer. Oh my
god, what if this show?What if this episode gets cursed by the
curse of Give us More? Imean, like every other episode we've ever
recorded, literally, we wouldn't beone of our shows. Yeah, I

(04:51):
almost anticipate what will go wrong today. I know. It's like it surprises
us every time. It's always somethingnew. It's always something we don't know
how to control, a void orfix. And then it's like, oh,
let I message you, and I'mlike, hey, so when don't

(05:12):
you free? Because we got tore record it so fun little update.
I'll never forget the time. Itwas like an hour and a half long
episode. I think it was oneof the Golden State ones. And I
got to the end and the wholelike last ten minutes was just aliens speak,
like our microphone is completely scrambled.It was what I don't I think.

(05:36):
I actually shut the laptop and Ihad to walk away from night.
You were like, I can't doit today. That's speak Jim Megan's problem.
The reason why I mentioned that truecrime has been very heavy is because
today we're just going to be dipping, dipping our toes back into the water,
just a little, just a littledip, dip test the waters,

(05:57):
you know. Hold, is itgoing to scare us for the rest of
our lives? This case may actuallyso it's a wild case, but it
happened so long ago, and there'sa lot of discussion online over whether it's
actually true or not. Now Iam fully convinced that this is true,
but I do think there is quitea lot of discrepancies in this case,

(06:19):
which we will talk about as wego through. But it's it's a wild
one, so let's get started.So originally, when I was looking for
this case, I was looking forsomething different. I was looking for cases
of consensual homicide, which we willdo at some point, and it kind
of just led me down this slow, this case and rabbit hole exactly.

(06:42):
That's exactly what happened. I readlike a very short synopsis of the case,
you know, in one of thoselists, and I was like,
Okay, I need to know more. I need to know everything actually about
this. Okay, So to talkabout this, we first need to talk
about something called the Lorber Society.It all began when Acobloarber, a teacher
born in Slovenia, started to hearsomething he called an inner voice, and

(07:05):
that inner voice just so happened tobe none other than Jesus. Ding ding
ding ding ding ding ding. Yougot it. It's always fucking Jesus.
It's always told me to do it. Jesus told me to do it.
No, Jesus told you nothing becausehe's not real. Whoa whoa whoa whoa

(07:27):
whoa whoa except when I can't findsomething or No, that's Saint Anthony,
isn't it. Yeah, it's saftAnthony. But you know, and you're
like, please, Jesus, ifyou do this one thing for me,
I'll start going to truth. Ipromise I will. And so this guy,

(07:48):
Jacob Larber, would transcribe everything thatJesus spoke to him, which ended
up being over ten thousand pages,which resulted in multiple books. No one
wants to read your fucking Kazilian,long paged book on what Jesus quote unquote
told you to do. You'd besurprised this this guy's he got popular,

(08:13):
but I personally found him actually quitedifficult to research. Like his wiki page
is so long and so wordy thatI'm like, he definitely wrote it himself.
This is like back in the eighteenOh, I mean like he definitely

(08:35):
wrote that himself. I think theeighteen I don't know. It was a
long ass time ago. Okay,there's a picture. There's a photograph of
him. It was basically well beforewiki as we know it. He like
pre wrote it. He was like, if ever this thing called winky gets
popular, but this is my information, that would be terrible fighting God Christ

(09:01):
tell him to Yeah. Well.In a direct quote from that wiki page,
it says, quote oh amazing.In the Great Gospel of John,
Jesus explains that he is the creatorof the material universe, which was designed
as both a confinement of Satan andso we could take upon himself the position

(09:22):
of man. He says he didthis to inspire his children, who could
otherwise not perceive him in his primordialform as a spirit. Oh, why
can't we see him as a spirit. Why you hiden in the shadows,
Jesus. Why hiden in the shadows? Yeah? Why you Hyden might hiden

(09:43):
Jesus? Is it because after youwere done? She wasn't it was not
so virgin Mary Jesus. Oh,that's his mom, Jesus Christ. Well
that tis in really well with thestory. Oh oh no. The Bible
is fun to mock, and weare allowed to say that because we grew

(10:05):
up with it. So I'm allowedto say that because I'm technically Christian Catholic
or are they the same? Goodquestion. I don't think they're the same.
I don't know anymore. Okay,all Roman Catholics are Christian, but
not all Christians are Roman Catholic.Okay, so I'm Catholic, but I

(10:28):
am not Christian. But if you'reChristian, you're Catholic. No, you
are a Catholic. So you area Christian and know is that what you
just said? Yeah? No,So I'm Catholic, so therefore I'm a
Christian. But if you were aChristian, you're not necessarily a Catholic.
Yes, exactly. One of thequestions here on Google is do Catholics believe

(10:50):
that Jesus that Jesus do Catholics believethat that Jesus the greatest question of all
time? So Jacob Larbert also wroteabout free will and the importance of free
will, basically emphasizing how humans canuse their free will and choose if they

(11:13):
would like to live in harmony orcontrary to God's will. I'm gonna live
in country because I'm a rebel.Whoa, whoa, Calm down. You
know when the rapture comes, you'regoing to be left here with the burning
everything. Yeah, well I'll looksuper cool at any tats. So yeah,

(11:37):
I'll be hanging out with every fuckingthing. Arounmy is on fire.
I'll just show everybody like my righttitty that says good vibes. Hey,
guys, we've got some good vibes. It's okay. We're gonna be okay,
like pure toxic positivity. He didn'tLaubert didn't want to leave the Catholic

(11:58):
Church, but he wanted them toadopt his writings, to take them on.
Bro, what makes you think theCatholic tricks? Have you met them?
What they did to him was likeso much worse. In eighteen sixty
nine, the Vatican cancel put hisbooks on the index of Forbidden books.

(12:20):
That it's a list of books thatare forbidden for Catholics tread. And it's
a shame because I was really lookingforward to reading those ten thousand pages about
what USU said to Jacob. Looklisten, I know I said earlier no
one wants to read those, butreally I did. But now I can't
because them Catholics. So sorry,Yeah, shame oa, gosh darn.

(12:43):
Now what will I do with myspare time? It sins? Committing sins
and treacherous accins. I mean,I guess now all I'll have to do
is commit sins. Although would thatmean then I get to read the book?
Because then if that does mean Iget to read the book, I'll
just follow the Catholics loophole loophole leavesdone it and then just go to it.

(13:05):
Then just go to a church andbe like, forgive me Father,
for I have sinned. Oh yeah, and then then you're forgiven and then
you get into you get into heavenanyway. Yeah, just like with like
Jeffrey Dahmer and all of the otherpetos and serial killers who accepted Christ.
Did you just liken me to serialkillers and petos No at this point,

(13:28):
though, I don't think laur werecared too much because he was dead and
he died in August of eighteen sixtyfour, so that's kind of ship.
His books were published after his death. So can you imagine how ship that
would be if all of your like, if all your life's findings. Yeah,
and then you die after you likesubmit it to the church to be

(13:48):
like, hey, follow you know, like guys, yeah, guys,
I found a way to make theCatholic religion better. And then you die
and then the Catholic Church are likefor Bowden, shunned, shunned, shunned.

(14:09):
That would be so fun. Sothen does that mean that he's in
heaven? And then the like headsof the Catholic Church are like for Bowden.
And then Jesus goes, oh,oh you're oh, I just got
word. Your books have been forBoden. Hell imagine and Jesus is the

(14:31):
one. Hey, hey, Idon't make the rules, buddy, I
just enforced him. I'm sorry,just came from the Big G. So
so some people tried to posthumously diagnoseLorber with mental illness, okay, just
because he had like yeah, peoplewere like, he's clearly schizophrenic. I

(14:54):
mean he might not be. Hemight just be a like religious not you
know, or maybe Jesus did cometo him or yeah, well that is
also trimmy. You never know,We just because we don't experience these things
doesn't actually mean that the man wasschizophrenic. Yeah, literally, And that's
what other others thought. They werelike, oh fuck, yeah, they

(15:16):
loved his work and he actually gaineda bit of a following after his death.
Oh yeah, he wasn't alive tosee it, I know. So
from my understanding, it's not likethere's like one big cult or compound.
It's more people practicing this like privatelyin their own home and like different sex,
like the way that you would withlike religion, like with Christianity.

(15:39):
And but there's no like a church. No, there's no church. There's
no but like you just you know, you follow your beliefs at home,
like this man's beliefs. Yeah,you adapt as your own beliefs. So
at this time, the followers ofthis branch Catholicism or Christianity, whatever,

(16:03):
they practiced a lot of self denial. So they're like, no, I
can't like I cannot have that chocolatepearer. That's that's made it alf denial.
I could do with some of thatself denial of being completely honest.
Yeah, that would be great.Where do I find this Man's just a
disclaimer. We're not mocking religion.Well we are slightly, but like your

(16:26):
beliefs, so you're believed these areare beliefs. Yeah, that's why we're
like mocking it. Like you're entitledto your own belief system. I'm not
going to like slate you for it. Each to their own, you know,
each to their own. Like youcan have your beliefs. You can
believe this man's shite if you want. Yeah, from what Megan's saying,

(16:52):
please don't because it gets bad.But you know, kids, it's kind
Yeah, it's kind of bad aslong as you don't hurt anybody. WHOA
did you hear that they're doing fireworksoutside? I could hear that through through
my earphones. It's nuts. Maltacomment with the fireworks I know every single

(17:17):
fucking day, like morning and middayand at night. It's on the morning
and midday, like the noise issupposed to ward off demons or something.
I don't know. Okay, Ihave Malta been reading this man's maybe so.
Yeah. The people that believed this, they also believed that everyone outside

(17:37):
of the society was with the devil, an impure or evil or bad news.
So, oh my god, theythink I'm bad news. Yeah,
yeah, I do. So theywouldn't associate themselves with you. They would
make as little contact with the publicas they possibly could. I mean since

(18:03):
retweet, oh no, we haveto say reposting it because Twitter is X.
Don't get me stud that made meway too angry. I also hate
it. I missed that. Ididn't tweet at all, but I missed
the little tweetie burden. You know, I very rarely used the app,
but I'm sure it's hell going touse it less. It looks like I

(18:26):
have a porn app on my phone. Oh my god, it really does.
I really hate it so much,like more than I should, because
it's not that deep. Have youseen those people that pay for the subscriptions
and it comes up on their bankingapps, like a subscription to X dot
com And like one guy's parents werelike, this is really inappropriate. We

(18:48):
gave you this card for emergencies andit's Twitter. Well, why are you
paying for Twitter. Yeah, don'tdon't do that, almost like paying for
porn. Hope, why are youdoing that? What's worth it? Really?
Okay, I have an admission tomake and I realized this, necesse,

(19:11):
I can't pay for porn up.No, I pay for YouTube.
Meg it you know why it's soworth it? Yeah? YouTube music as
well. So like Paramore and fallup Boy and a whole bunch of different
bands. They have like a littleof demos that are not on Spotify or
Apple Music. So no, Iwas gonna say, but I have Spotify,
but if you get stuff that's noton Spotify, I guess that's a

(19:32):
little bonus. Yeah, it is. I don't even know how much it
is a month, and that's noteven it's like fifteen year old, I
think, I know, I know, but like I don't watch television.
I don't watch Netflix so much.I watch YouTube. You know what I
mean? Okay? Yeah? YouTube? Yeah, Well it's if it's you're

(19:53):
like go to more so than Netflixor that I can understand paying it because
Netflix is that. So yeah,that's where I was going with that.
No, even when I'm going tosleep on YouTube, I put on those
like you know, the like you'resitting by a fire and it's grapplings.
I listened to those. Okay,so guys, I'm twenty eight and I

(20:14):
just passed my theory tests. Congratulations, which just means I'm a learner.
I can't drive on a company,but you know, baby steps, baby
steps. The night before the testI listened to I listened to guided meditations
before bed to like help with mysleep and my anxiety and stuff. And
I listened to an anxiety free examone before bed. You gotta do what

(20:41):
you gotta do. Bit you gotforty out of forty, so I got
one hundred percent. Slide. Youkilled it. I don't think I've ever
got one hundred percent of tests beforeever in my life. I did once
and I got bullied for it.Rude. I probably did to be fair,
But you know, I miss takingtests. I miss feeling somewhat smart.

(21:03):
No, I hate tests. Testsgive me anxiety. Like tests make
my anxiety worse. I never wassomebody that suffered with anxiety, but I
definitely have exam anxiety. Really mhmm, I can't remember if I had exam
anxiety. No, I actually didreally bad my leaving shirt because I have

(21:26):
such like severe exam anxiety. Reallythat like it like stopped me from like
answering questions because I like would belike, oh god frozen. Yeah fuck
yeah. I think with my leavingsirt, I'd given up before I'd even
walked in. So it's like,yeah, it's it's gonna be what it's

(21:47):
gonna be. I could know theanswer, like sitting here now, I
could be like, yeah, thisis the answer, and then as soon
as you put me in like anexam situation, I'm like, how do
I spell my name? I don't. I think I felt that for my
oral for my Irish exam, theoral part of it, I started speaking
German and she stopped the tape andshe was like, do you want to

(22:10):
start again? I was like,you're an angel, because it was like
as soon as I opened my mouth, so we hadn't even gotten fair and
yeah no, Like in the theorytest, like I was answering the questions
and like I was like, ohmy god, I know this and I
know this and I know that.But then I was like almost afraid to
get cocky because yeah, I forsure thought any goodles, let's go.

(22:36):
Yeah. So the reason why thatis all relevant everything about Jacob Lorber.
It's because of the absolute gorilla gripthat this branch of Christianity had on Harold
Alexander Young. Harold was making aliving for himself and his family as a
stonemason in Dresden in Germany. Itwas here in Dresden that world met a

(23:00):
man named George Real, and Ibelieve that's how he's how you pronounce his
second name or I e hla,it's either real or royal. Yeah,
we'll call him George. He wasat the time the leader of the Laerber
Society. They got close really fastbecause Harold had always been religious, so
when he kind of found us,he was like, Oh, my fucking

(23:21):
God, this is my ship,this is my jam. So Harold actually
moved with his wife Dagmar and hisdaughter Marina to Hamburg, and I believe
that was to be closer to George. Then George got sick, and it
said that Harold went to his bedsideas he lay dying, and George appointed
him as the next leader of theLaerber Society. Now, from my research,

(23:47):
nobody was actually here to witness this, so it could be a appointed
thing. Harold does emerge and waslike, so, would you believe me
if I said George appointed And thensomeone was like yeah, probably. He
was like, yes, George appointedme. That's literally exactly what happened.
He came out of there after Georgedied, and he was like, I

(24:11):
I am the leader, and everybodyin this society pretty much just accepted it.
They were like, okay, cool, sweet cool. So as the
new leader, he adopted some newbeliefs, one of them being that the
Prophet was coming back to Earth andthat he would know who the prophet was
the second he laid eyes on him. Harold, shut your horror, lying

(24:33):
now right now. Of course,when Dagmar gave birth to their son,
Frank Alexander in nineteen fifty four,Harold immediately knew that he was the prophet
and everyone was to obey his everywish. Convenient it was your son,
Harold, Yeah, how did thatone? In a middle chance? Now,

(24:57):
I think we can all see howgiving a child this kind of power
is gonna like, oh my god, yeah, it's not gonna end well
at all. No, it's not, and it didn't. He would make
you go mad even if you gaveme the slightest bit of power. So
Yeah, the Alexander family had toserve Frank's every demand, no matter how

(25:21):
big and no matter how small.Now, as Frank got older, what
happens when you're when you're a teenager, what what becomes to you? Because
I'm the prophet, Like Jesus toldme to sleep with you and you hit
the nail on the head, Exceptit's much worse than that. So yeah,
he definitely became very interested in sexand girls, but he would never

(25:47):
even dream of polluting himself with theimpure and evil girls his own age,
not within the society. So Frankhad a great idea. So he went
to his dad and he was like, instead of me dirtying myself, what
if I just have sex with mymom and my sisters and that's a hard

(26:11):
pass. Well, Harold was like, why didn't I think of that?
That is a fantastic idea, Frank, Harold, They're like, fuck,
I did say we all had toobey you? Yeah, yeah, well
no, he genuinely was on boardwith this. He was like, this
is a fucking fantastic idea. Whatthe hell is wrong with people? Just

(26:32):
what? What? What is wrongwith people? So it was agreed that
Frank was going to have relations withhis mother Dagmar and his sisters, as
Dagmar had also given birth to twotwin girls at roughly fifteen to sixteen years
previously, Petra and Sabine. Now, so it began, and sometimes Harold
will even join in. So thisis like a big gross incest party.

(26:57):
Yeah. Now these two girls else, the sisters, apart from Marina,
I believe she was like eighteen,Like Petro and Sabine are underage very much.
They're only sixteen fifteen. Yeah,so this is just straight up raping
his sisters. So while I letyou digest that, let's take a short

(27:18):
break. So we are back fromthe break, and I hope you've had
a little moment to just understand thatwhat is happening right now is that Frank
is the son and the prophet andhe is now having sex with his mother
and raping his sisters because he didn'twant to ruin the purity of himself.

(27:40):
And although we were joking, it'sactually quite serious and quite disgusting, and
oh it's absolutely and he'll most certainlybe rotting in hell. Frank would show
more interest in his older sister Marinaand his mother Dagmar than he was to
the two younger sisters, Petra andSabine. I mean in some sense,
I don't mean this to be inone sense, thank god, because like

(28:02):
at least they're of age, butit's still your sister and your mother still
sick. Definitely. And one dayone of the twins was at school and
I'm not sure if it was Petraor Sabine, and she was just telling
her friend as she felt a bitjealous that she was not receiving the same
amount of attention as her other femalefamily members did. I'm sure they were

(28:22):
told, like, you don't tellanybody what's going on outside of this house.
But you know, I'm sure she'slike, oh, Frankie, just
you know, seems to prefer mymom and my older sister. Now.
Of course, this starts a rumoraround the ancestual relationship of the family within
the school, which then reached theparents and eventually the police. And the

(28:47):
police actually took this rumor really seriously, and they had either opened an investigation
or were about to open when theAlexander family heard of their interest. So
they decided to get the allot aDodge and they moved to thirty seven Jesus
Nazarino Street in the town of SantaCruz and ten A Reef, supposedly at

(29:08):
the will of God, not atthe will of the family or in the
dad being like, oh shit,we're going to be put in prison.
I'm sure, I'm sure. Itotally believe that they were able to afford
the move thanks to inheritance given toDagmar from her parents. They may have
left their home, but they settledin pretty quickly in ten A Reef.

(29:30):
Sabine, one of the twins,got a job as a housemaid, and
I believe Frank got a job asa delivery man. The locals didn't know
much about the family, but theywere known for having allowed organ music coming
from the apartment. They continued topractice their faith privately and for about ten
months the incest relationship continued, orshould they say the sexual abuse, because

(29:51):
that's what it actually is. Andthat was until the morning of December twenty
first, nineteen seventy. All ofthe family except for Sabine, we're at
home. Sabine was at her boss'shouse working, so at one point during
the day, Harold and Dagmar goin to have a little mid day nap
and Frank just heads on into theroom and he just sits on the side

(30:11):
of the bed and it's just chilling. When apparently Dagmar turned and looked at
Frank in a quote suggestive way.I'm sure she did. It made Frank
blind with rage. He was pissedwith this look. Frank announced that the
killing hour was upon them. Oh, the killing hour was something that had

(30:36):
actually been spoken about. Well,the killing hour was something that had actually
been spoken about within the family fora while now. The family believed that
women were evil, which okay,and that the only way that women could
go to heaven was by giving uptheir physical body and sacrifice. Okay.
So Harold and Frank were like,sometimes we really want to murder you,

(31:03):
So we're gonna do that sometime,but we're gonna word it so that it's
like you're sacrificing yourself for heaven.Yeah. Cool. You don't really have
a faith, so it's cool.Okay, we laugh. It's not funny.
It's really not funny because this happensevery single day. But okay,

(31:25):
I did read something about Eve comingfrom Adam's rib and that makes women just
an imitation of man or something likethat. I don't know. It's all
we are to you, isn't itjust a rib? Anyway, when the
killing hour was announced, all ofthe women in the family were to stop
what they were doing and start toprepare themselves, which is exactly what Dagmer

(31:49):
did. Frank got a wooden clotheshanger and started to beat her over the
head with it. To make iteasier for her son, she turned lay
on her stomach and put her armsdown by her side. No call nine
one one. But can you imaginethe image of brainwashing that has had to
have happened in this family for this, just for that act. Yeah,

(32:15):
Harold at this point jumped out ofbed like the old man from Charlie and
took the factory in excitement. Thismotherfucker hopped his ass out of bed and
Rand go start playing the organ whilehis son is beating up his wife.
All of the noise pulled Marina andPetra from their rooms, and when they
saw what was going on, thetwo girls just sat in the middle of

(32:35):
the living room floor with their armsdown by their sides, waiting for their
brother, the chosen One, tocome and sacrifice them. So he does.
Frank heads on into the living roomand killed his sisters the same way
he had killed his mother. Nowthis is something I really don't get,
because what in the world was hedoing with that coat hanger that would have
killed them? Like I can seea wooden coat hanger being enough to knock

(33:00):
somebody out, but to kill them, Like, I don't understand. How
do you do that with a coathanger? Do you like break it?
And I don't know, I'm notYeah, he either broke it and was
using it as like to stab them. The amount of like physical force and

(33:20):
the amount of beats it would taketo like beat someone to death with a
wooden coat hanger, I imagine itis quite a lot. No, it
definitely would be. But this isthis is kind of what makes all of
this worse when you hear what happensnext. It's very likely that these three
women are just unconscious, all right. Once the girls were either dead or

(33:43):
unconscious, Frank went into the kitchenand he got a knife and I believe
his par scissors, And then Frankand Harold took turns in removing parts of
the women's bodies, so parts ofa woman that are really sexualized. This
sliced the breasts, off of eachwoman, as well as parts of their

(34:04):
vaginas, and then they nailed themto the apartment wall. What the fuck.
Not only that, but they wentin and broke Dagmar's chest in to
retrieve her heart before wrapping it incord and also nailing it to the wall.
I just want you to keep inmind that the guys are like taking
turns, so when one gets tired, they go play the organ while the

(34:28):
other starts cutting the women's bodies.Yeah, they're like taking it in turns
to like regenerate their energy. Yeah, it's disgusting. Now. Once this
is all done, the two menapparently literally danced and saying around the apartment,
rejoicing in what they've done, becausefor them, they have just released
their female family members, sold intoheaven. Right, So apparently that night

(34:52):
they went and slept in another apartmentthat they owned. The next morning,
on December twenty second, the twomen go to knock on doctor Trenkler's door.
Sabine, one of the twins,the other one that wasn't in the
home that morning, had stayed thenight to try and get a job done.
So Harold and Frank are there atthe door and doctor Trenkler goes to

(35:13):
get Sabine, who's in the kitchenand preparing a meal. Sabine comes to
the door and Harold tells her quote, Sabine, dear, we wanted you
to know at once that Frank andI have just finished killing your mother and
your sisters. Sabine, as thestory goes, takes her father's hand and
presses it against her cheek, andshe says, I'm sure you've done what
was necessary. Now I have questionsabout this. Would you not be like

(35:37):
destroyed, Like I don't care howbrainwashed you were, Okay, you would
be so upset that your mother andyour sisters are dead? You would you
would have to be. The reasonwe have this information is because the doctor
actually went and he was standing behindthe door so he could hear everything.

(36:00):
Now, my thing is, wouldn'tthey have spoken German to each other?
I never even thought of that.The doctor may have also spoke German,
or they were speaking Spanish to eachother. I don't know, but yeah,
there, I mean, there isdefinitely like inconsistencies exactly. So the

(36:22):
doctor immediately calls the police because he'slike, what the fuck. So the
story goes that he heard Harold andFrank say this to Sabine, and he
immediately went and locked himself in aroom and called the police from the room.
There's also another version of the storywhere Harold sees the doctor and he
turns to him and he's like,oh, yeah, we just you know,

(36:45):
the killing hour happened, So wekilled my wife and my girls just
so you know, you know usual. So when the police arrived, the
boys are still there. Harold andFrank are still there, and they're like
very open about what they've done.They're like, yeah, yeah, the
killing Hour happened, and we killedthem, like we released their souls to

(37:06):
heaven. So the police go tothe apartment and find the blood bat that
was left behind. Yeah. Again, they're not hiding anything. They fully
believed that they've done an amazing,brilliant, good, honorable thing. They
genuinely don't see what's wrong with whatthey've done. I have a quote here
quote. I saw that mother waslooking at me, and I had the

(37:29):
feeling that it was not permitted forher to look at me in this manner.
I therefore took the clothes hanger andstruck her over the head. After
I struck her several times, shefell over and lost consciousness. Father had
gone to the living room to playthe organ, and I also went there.
First I struck Marina on the headwith the hangar, and after she
lost consciousness, I struck Petra.Father continued to play the organ and praise

(37:52):
Jesus, but when I began toremove the offending parts, he came to
help me the offending parts. Themen were arrested and were found unfit for
trial by reason of insanity. Theywere sentenced to a psychiatric facility, and
although Sabine wanted so badly to goand live there with them, she was
sent to go and live in aconvent and she has not been heard from

(38:13):
since the worst part. In nineteenninety, twenty years after they were both
sentenced, both Frank and Harold managedto escape, and neither have been found
to this day. Harold would bein his early nineties now, while Frank
would be about sixty seven. Okay, so there's a high chance that Harold
is dead. Yeah, and Isay Frank is still kicking about somewhere.

(38:37):
But yeah, that's just that's it. I wonder, like, does Sabine
like since she was moved to theconvent and stuff. Did they kind of
like did she see sense then whenshe was with the nuns, you know,
Like there is also a theory onlinethat when Frank and Harold escaped that

(38:58):
Sabine went and was like living withthem because she hasn't we don't know where
she is at all, Like,yeah, she went to the convent and
then was never heard from again.So like she could literally be anywhere in
the world. Could because they couldn'treally have gone back to Germany good day.
Well, having it been twenty yearsand the fact that the crimes happened

(39:21):
in ten a Reef, there islike a high possibility that they could go
back to Germany because like, youknow, not many people would know them,
and they could just go to adifferent part of Germany. Very true,
kind of like m there is possibilities. Yeah, it's all kinds of
fucked up. Not only did theyfall into this kind of sect or cult,

(39:46):
they closed themselves off from the outsideworld as much as they possibly could.
There was incests and then murder,and then these incests murderers escape.
It's a wild story. Like I'mgenuinely shocked that like they were able to

(40:08):
like convince themselves so much of likewhat they were doing was right. I
don't know. I guess it's it'seasy to happen when you really want to
believe in something. You can believeanything that you that you really want,
like we see it happen with cultsand even in normal relationships. You know.

(40:29):
I feel like, though, likedeep down you'd know, like what
you're doing is wrong. They wereso like, yeah, so, like
we just killed your sisters and yourmother, and Sabine is like sweet,
yeah, and she's like cool,cool, cool. But then also would
she not be thinking if she isso, if she believes in it so
much, would she not also think, Okay, well, when's my turn.

(40:51):
That's what I mean. I juststruggle to believe that, Like,
no matter how brainwash you were,I'm sure deep down a part of you
was like, but I don't wantto but she said, I'm sure you've
done what was necessary. I'm sureshe was devastated on the inside, but
at the same time she's believing thatFrank Okay is the project. Okay,
Well they just yeah, like theyjust did what they had to do.

(41:15):
Mhmm. Like I don't know,even you can even look at scientology and
think the same. I mean,scientology is fucking nuts, though nuts,
Tom Cruise, your religion is weird. It's true, but yeah, that's
it's kind of it. That's wild. We're both tired now, we're both

(41:36):
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(42:42):
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(43:24):
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(44:30):
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It. It's like another full timejob. So when you have a job
and then you have this job andthen you have also your like home life,
it's a lot of balancing and sometimessometimes it's very unbalanced. And yeah,
this is the easiest thing to letslip because yeah, obviously I have

(45:12):
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I gotta pay, so anywhools.We will see you hopefully next week.
Yes, we will to lunch ofBye,