The Syracuse Dungeon Master John Jamelske

This week Megan tells us the horrifying story of serial rapist and kidnapper, John Jamelske. John kidnapped girls as young as 14, to woman up to 53 years old in the DeWitt area. A known hoarder, his next collection was different women. Until one day, his luck was out.

Near the end of this episode, we lose Niamh's mic. Sorry about that

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Hi, and welcome back to giveus mark me. I'm Megan, and
you are joining us for a casethat's not John when Gacy, Thank the
Lord, she's christ. Oh finally, I'm so happy I don't have to
hear about him anymore. We wereliterally that meme that I put up on
the Instagram. Oh yeah, likeMelissa McCarthy and I was about to call

(00:34):
her Shania Twain not my icon.What is her name? Sandra? Like,
oh my god, Megan, getit together. Listen. It's hard
when you get two icons mixed together. Mean girls absolutely fair. I just
want to know, like, isit just does that song like make every
woman fairl Like it's just you know, you just the Let's Go Girls just

(00:58):
just something to us. We're justlike yeah, I feel like it's like
a mixture of nostalgia and then amixture of like I need this in my
life right now, because I feellike every woman has had that experience of
their mother playing this song in thecar and your mother going Pharaoh for it.
Probably yes, And then on topof that, then as an adult,

(01:19):
you're just like, yes, let'sgo girls. Between that and man,
I feel like a woman, Ilove it. Yeah, So your
Brad Pitt. That don't impresent memuch. That's just iconic though, So
your Brad Pitt. Can you imagineBrad Pitt when he heard that, What

(01:40):
did I do to you? Girly? It's not what you did to me,
it's what you did too. Whois he married with Jenna Aniston?
Oh my god, I'm so sorryCale put on my dish. Sure it's
like gurgling in the think I thoughtthat was your fridge again. Oh my
god. Yeah, I'm pretty surethat it was the fridge that time,
because my fridge does it need Myfridge needs fixing, you guys, and

(02:05):
um, Megan thought it was ademon In my head, I thought it
was the sex demon from our HauntedItems episode. I mean, it very
well could be, but my fridgedoes just like randomly go. You've probably
heard it in the background of episodeslike John Wayne Gacy Part three. Definitely,
there's like a couple of parts init where you were talking, so
I couldn't like edit it. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, guys,

(02:28):
that's my fridge. It's just notdoing so hot right now. It adds
to the mystique of the podcast.I think you're like, what is that
is it the fridge or is ita special sexy sex demon. I mean,
I hope it's this best. Ihope it's a special se I want
to say special and sexy at thesame time. And it was like the

(02:53):
spexy demon. Hmmm, we wearglasses. So Megan has a my little
episode for us today. Very excitedabout it and we will try not be
as giddy as last time. ICan had an episode for us. If
you haven't checked it out, yeahdo because it's a fun episode. It

(03:14):
was the overtired stage where you're likejust giddy. Yes, I love that
stage. And that's when like Iget the human version of the zoom meanes
o the zoom means the Zoomies areso cute. I knew remember when Waffles
used to get him when we'd berecording and you could just hear him like
on the landing outside, like goingfrom the door to door. Oh,

(03:36):
by the way, just so youall know and update on Waffles, because
if you've been around for a while, you know that Waffles is a cat
that me and Nile fend during thepandemic and we had to bottle feed him
and stuff. And then when wemoved to Malta. We couldn't take him
with us because he didn't have passportand stuff when we were moving into an
apartment that we had never actually seen, and we didn't want to put him

(03:59):
through the stress of like a flightand moving and keeping him inside in an
apartment all day long and possibly notbeing home all the time with him,
that kind of thing. There area lot of different reasons. So he
is with niles mom right now,Nile's parents, and he has grown into
the biggest, most beautiful boy.But guess what His name is not Waffles

(04:21):
anymore. No, she didn't changehis They renamed him. Yeah, when
I guess Paul so close? Ohno, Hank. They changed Waffles for
her. Well, when you seehim, you think like Hank the tank

(04:43):
because he's so big. What arethey feeding him? To be honest,
he was always a big eater,like I just don't know if you remember,
like he always had like a bigron belly. He did, Yes,
he did. He fit in withme and you. It's fine.
He liked his food. This food. We like our food. Oh my,

(05:08):
I'm self conscious, no bad thing, which I know, I know.
I always have to have a snakeafter I finished recording. It's like
a reward or something. Really,I like go straight to bed because I'm
like, oh my fuck. No, I'll have like a chocolate or something
and then be like deuces, I'mout. Anyway, Shall we dive in

(05:30):
to the case? Jump in?Oh she's doing it? Oh she rev
Nive just did like that diving motionthat she done for the last episode two
and she rebbed up like she shewent back and like rebbed up and up
red. I'm already. So today'scase is on John Jamealski, also known

(05:50):
as the Syracuse Dungeon Master. Ohmy, okay, is it? Is
it Dungeons and Dragons? No?Oh no, okay, I thought it
was going to be something You're like, that's okay. I do want to
say that this case was one ofthe more difficult to cover, and not
because there are a lot of likeweird things about it. But what we'll

(06:14):
see and what is really irritating isthese were a group of women that were
let in by a police force thatthey trusted time and time again. I
mean at this stage, what now? Yeah, it's not surprising, but
it doesn't get less frustrating. No, I'll try not be too harsh on
them. No, you can beharsh. It's fine. We both know

(06:34):
I will be. And so amassive, massive trigger warning for a sexual
assault great. John Jamelski was bornMay ninth, nineteen thirty five, in
Fayetteville, New York. He grewup in the de Witt area, a
small town just outside of Syracuse inNew York, New York, New York,

(06:55):
New York. Every time I hearlike just the two words new York,
I think of Madagascar, the movie. John was an only child,
and he was a bit of aloner, not interested in sports or any
extracurriculars. Relatable. We have anextracurricular true craodcast is an extracurricular Well yeah,

(07:15):
but yeah, not into sports andloner. Yeah. Also, can
I just tell everybody something? Sure? I see fat an earthquake? Oh
my god, I forgot that.I was sitting in this very chair.
Oh here we go, a dramaticretelling. So here. I was a

(07:39):
gray, gloomy day outside, sittingin this very chair, at this very
desk, working in my nine tofive job, just doing my usual.
You don't think anything's going to happen. When all of a sudden, I
felt a very slight tremor, thetiniest earthquake ever to exist. And I

(08:03):
messaged my friend because you know,it's work, you're on slack, and
I said, oh, my god, I think my apartment has just been
hit by a crane again, becauseit hadn't happened. It has happened one
time because they're constructing a new buildingright beside me, and it was the
middle of a storm and they decidedthey were going to continue and tried to

(08:24):
construct with the crane. So justhid into the side of it anyway.
And she said, no, no, we felt that too. That was
just an earthquake. I was like, oh, just just an earthquake.
Just an earthquake. You're telling meI survived a fucking earthquake. It was
a Level four earthquake. And whatam I going to do? I just

(08:48):
I just sit here and go backto my city, little job, do
my city little emails, what whatwhat? I've never survived an earthquake before,
so like state of shock would kickin, you know, being like
on my word, I believe.I went out to my balcony and like
stared at the water to see ifit was like doing anything crazy. I
called my mom, and my momwas like, oh my god, Megan,

(09:09):
you need to get somewhere high.Well, Malta is a flat country,
mother, where am I gonna go? And can I just I love
the fact that you were like,yeah, my building just got hit with
a crane. You're like, um, do you know in American pie you're

(09:31):
one is like this one time atbank camp. If you're like this one
time in Malta, well yeah,that's that's it. How people going to
say that's the moring Like, nowit's not the time, Megan. We're
talking about earthquakes and that's show bid. Okay, okay, where were we

(09:56):
to the story? He mostly underperformedin school, and at one stage it
had gained the nickname germs Jamanski.That's unfortunate. Well, it was because
you were so unsociable and apparently wouldregularly wear the same clothes every day that
had grown to be old and reportedlya bit smelly. Did they not know

(10:16):
about like, well, did theyhave washing machines? Then? In nineteen
thirty five yea or nineteen forty odd? I feel like yes, I feel
then I thought, you know,is it a matter of money? Do
they just not have a lot ofmoney? Is this like not a wealthy
family, and I don't know theirfinancial situation when John was a child,

(10:37):
but as they got older. DefinitelyJohn's parents who were not poor. Okay,
well, like they could have justwashed his clothes now. And also,
is it just an American thing nicknames? I feel like you don't really
over here in Ireland, we don'treally give kids nicknames as a mean thing.
Not as a mean thing. Wedefinitely have a lot of nicknames.

(11:00):
Oh, the town has a lotof like people with nicknames, but it's
so much so that you almost don'tknow their real names. Yeah, but
it's not as like an insult ofthing to like bully them. No,
we got bullied in other ways.They got creative. They got creative.
It's great. I feel like we'regetting very slide tracked again. Today.
We are sorry. I'll stop continue. That's my fridge. That's the sex

(11:26):
demon. It's the sex demon tryingto get out of my freezer. I
put her in there to cool off. But I think the thing with wearing
the old clothes and the smelly clothes, I think was more of a John
thing. Really, there was nothingmuch to be said about his childhood,

(11:48):
although he would tell you very differentas he grew up and would reminisce on
his childhood as you do, oryou'd meet new people and you talk about
your time in school and stuff.He would often say that he was a
very popular teenager and that he haddated some of New York's most beautiful women,

(12:09):
including a winner of the Miss NewYork Beauty pageant. Bro, you
were called germ, and you knowwhat, in our positions as professional bullies,
we're allowed to bully him today.Yeah. No, he was culled
Germ. Okay, Like, comeon, you're fooling. Not a single
soul. John literally was the guyto be like, oh, I have

(12:30):
a girlfriend, she just goes toanother school. I did lose my virginity
with a girl from Canada, Okay. Her name is Maple, her name
is Pam. No, he metthis girl from Canada, okay, and
her name was Maple syrop. Shesounds like a sweet girl. Her favorite

(12:54):
food is pancakes. Although he wasa weird teen didn't quote make any waves
unquote by one of his school Iwas going to say friends, but he
didn't have They just went to school. No, he did not know what
those were. He did grow upinto an adult to be what people called

(13:15):
gregarious, and he was somebody thatyou could like hold a conversation with him
about anything, Like you could mentioncockroaches are gross, and he'd be like
yeah, and then he'd take asecond and he would go into a big,
long, interesting conversation about how cockroachesare gross but you know, good
for the ecosystem. He was clever, like he knew how to like converse

(13:37):
with everybody about anything. I feellike after his school experience, he took
a lot of time to try andget better at being social, like he
studied it. I think he wantedto try almost be a social butterfly.
Once John graduated from high school,he attended Marsfield State College and earned a
degree in watchmaking in nineteen fifty five, which he was just following in his

(14:00):
father's footsteps because his dad was awatchmaker and he was also a clock collector.
In nineteen to fifty nine, Johnmet and married Dorothy Richmond, a
school teacher. They'd go on tohave three sons together. They stayed in
the DeWitt area, living in anice, modest bungalow, and the boys

(14:20):
all seemed to be pretty well socialized. They seemed like a relatively normal churchgoing
family, and they were there.They were a religious family as well,
So keep this in mind, SundayBest and all that jazz. At this
point, John had been working ata grocery chain named Acme I think Acme
for twenty years until they started toclose in the area. He went on

(14:43):
then to take jobs as a handyman, watch repairer, really anything that he
could and physically do. Yeah,he was doing it and that would give
him some work. Frugality was atrademark of John's. He collected bottles and
cans and he would like literally goout on the roads with a bag looking
for bottles and hands so that hecould sell them back to like m Yeah,

(15:07):
like some of the show centers.Yeah, some of them like them,
Like it's like twenty center ball orsomething like that. John would go
to the local library and ask thelibrarians to keep all of the newspapers so
that he could cut out the foodcoupons. Were they a struggling family,
No, and we'll get into thatnow in a few minutes. I don't

(15:28):
think they were wealthy at this point. But this is something that John always
was. He was always so superfrugal, thrifty, he calls it.
If he went to the library andthe librarians had forgotten to keep any of
the newspapers or anything, he wouldlike march them down and be like,
look what you've done, and hewould share at them and yell at them

(15:50):
and be really aggressive. God,he was horrible to them, to the
point where they were scared, likethey made sure they kept the newspapers and
stuff for him. Imagine yelling ata library worker. And it is said
that he was known to argue overthe sake of assent. The frugality wasn't
particularly needed, though, John Jamalskiwas not a poor man. A few

(16:14):
years earlier, John had convinced hisdad to invest some money into stocks and
bonds. Then when John's dad passedaway, John inherited all of it,
the money, stocks, expensive clocks, everything. And it said that the
clocks that he inherited were to avalue of about for dyk, my lord.

(16:36):
And was he the only child?Yes, okay, the mother was
still alive. Yeah, why didn'tshe get any of it? I assume
that she must have gotten something,Yeah, I suppose. Yeah. So
with the money that John had receivedfrom his dad, he invested in real
estate in different states, like inNevada and California. I mean, that's
clever. Absolutely. Even though thiswould have been going for a while financially,

(17:02):
John made the decision to sell someof the land surrounding his bungalow to
a real estate developer. His ownhouse at this point had become something of
an isore, and new million dollarhomes popped up around him. So he's
in this little bungalow like the houses. You can still go see it on
Google Maps. It's a tiny littlebungalow and there's like million dollars beautiful homes.

(17:26):
Yes, so it's not that it'san isore of a house. It's
that these million dollars beautiful houses werebuilt right beside this tiny little bungalow,
and so it looks not like aniore compared to the others. It's not
even that such. John was ahoarder. Oh okay, he probably had
like twenty five thousand rocking chairs outin the garden and ship just fifty million

(17:52):
gnomes. Well, yes, sohe had like multiple vehicles. He had
fridges like big appliances and stuff likethat out in the front yard and the
backyard like it was just completely covered, and like it's one thing. If
he's like, if it's a junkyard, that's fine. This is your home,
house that your children live in,that your wife lives in, amongst

(18:15):
these million dollar homes, and you'regonna be like, I'm just going to
place this giant fridge from the twentiesright beside the pickup truck that I bought,
that's from the thirties, that's besidethe fourth garden gnome. So obviously,

(18:36):
as I said, he used hisown yard as storage for the bigger
items he would hoard, inciding complaintsfrom his neighbors that were largely ignored by
him until he ended up being broughtto court. I don't give no fucks.
I don't give enough. So thecounty brought John to court over the
state of really the outside of hishouse, and he ended up building a

(19:00):
all fence around the property instead toshield it from their eyes. Feel like
it would have just been easier,John, to just clear your front your
front garden. But okay, andactually I don't even fully think so.
I saw like one source saying thisand another source saying this, So I

(19:22):
think it was actually a neighbor whenJohn didn't do anything about it was like,
you know what, I am goingto build my own fence on my
perimeter so I don't have to seeinto your garden. I think that's what
happened. It's the fact that whenyou buy a house worth like that much,
like valued at that much, youdo expect a certain standard. Yeah,

(19:47):
and so like, imagine you buythis million dollar home and you move
in and you're like, oh mygod, our dream home to start our
family. And you look out yourwindow and like there's just all this junk
out in his yard. You're like, I did not spend a million dollars
on this goddamhouse to look out atthat. I was promised views when he

(20:14):
got a view. And his wifeis probably a lovely woman, Yes,
absolutely, she really really did seemlike a very good woman. And obviously
the sun's all turned out really reallywell. I always find this so bizarre,
though, Do you find that whenit's someone like John Wayne Gacy,
like this giant ass asshole, andthen he had such lovely wives, because

(20:36):
you know, you have like abad boy. Told me no, Megan,
no, not that bad. Evenwith this, at this point,
John was on the road to beingif he was not one already a millionaire.
Yeah. In nineteen eighty five,John's wife, Dorothy was diagnosed with
cancer, and she eventually became edridden to her illness. M that's so

(21:00):
sad. I know. This iswhen John seems to have a bit of
a mental breakdown due to Dorothy beingso sick. Can I ask if you
know if a loved one got sick, what would be your first thought,
like your significant other? Oh,it was to look after them, not
to have an absolute hissy fit thatlike, and make it about you.

(21:26):
Mmmmmm I agree. Well, John'sfirst thought was how am I going to
have sex? That is, itis a selfish, ugly thing to think
about. Well, that's what Johnwas thinking. In the mid nineteen eighties,
a young girl named Gina was broughtinto the house. John claimed that

(21:48):
he had met her at the SalvationArmy. M. A friend of John's
noticed that Gina attended family events andsuch like picnics and stuff, but he
wasn't sure if John was in asexual relationship with her or not. Okay,
he was like, can't priv it, but seems sus to me exactly.
She left the house not long after. She didn't stay for very long.

(22:10):
Okay. One of John's sons admittedthat his mother, Dorothy, did
once confide in him that she believedJohn was having an affair with Gina.
That's so horrible because she's just tryingto get over cancer and survive cancer,
and you're right here writing some Ginabitch that you met at the Salvation Army.

(22:32):
If that's even true, hardly.Apparently it was during this time that
John seemed to be going through abit of a midlife crisis. Quote,
he lost so much weight you couldsee his rib cage. Said his son.
John started to wear his hair ina ponytail, and he dressed more
like a teenager in designer jeans andshoes. Was he wearing ed Hardy?

(22:52):
No? Eighties not time for edHardy yet, No, it wasn't his
time to shine bright? By God? Did they shine them? Tops?
A design masterpiece? Truly? YepChanel Who when I grew up, I
don't want to own a channel bag. I want to own an ed Hardy
top. When I grew up,I say, it's the twenty eight year

(23:17):
old woman with a child. Sothis is when the son helped his father
actually build the framework for an undergroundroom attached to the basement, and you
were not asking questions about that,I mean, midlife crisis, you know,
I would still be like, what'sthis room going to be used?
I can take a wild guess,a wild wild guest, John, You're

(23:41):
not going that crazier, are you? Twenty four feet long, twelve feet
wide, and eight feet high.It was divided into two smaller rooms.
Oh my god. Ye. Toenter the underground room, there was a
door from the basement and you kindof went from what I believe, down
some stairs and then you would haveto like crawl through on your hands and

(24:03):
knees, like a bit of itI guess would be the slope for going
down, and then you would openlike a small square door which was almost
at the top of the room.So if you can imagine like a small
square door, but it's up onthe top of your wall, like or
in the middle of your wall.Ye have to scream kidnapping at all?

(24:27):
No, you would have to turnaround then and like climbing down some stairs.
Yeah, that at all doesn't makea matter. He's planning on kidnapping
two women. Nope, nope,No, it's probably just going to use
it to grip some hash because he'shaving a my life crisis, not at
all about time murder people. He'sgot a ponytail, so it's the ponytail.

(24:48):
So a friend of John's actually helpedpour the concrete for this bunker,
and he did question John about itif somebody did and I know, and
John said that it it's just goingto be like a little weekend hangout spot
for some parties. What kind ofparties are you throwing down there? Your
wife is dying of cancer, youjackass. Yeah, let's reduce the parties

(25:12):
to a minimum while your wife isbedridden in the same house. And even
his step granddaughters, so his son'spartners kids, yeah, okay, would
come and they would have sleepovers there, like they weren't afraid of it,
like it was like a fun thing. What age can I just like,
roughly, what age would have thesegrandchildren been, because I am sorry,

(25:33):
at any age if my grandfather,well, my grandfather was a raging alcoholic,
so I definitely wouldn't have anyway.But if he wasn't and it was
just a normal grandfather and he waslike, hey, I built this room
in the basement of the house,do you want to go have a sleepover
there. I'd be like, oh, hell's not. I don't know how
old they were. This was somethingthat I read in like one source,

(25:57):
and I it was a newspaper source, so I don't know that's all I
read. But yeah, no,absolutely, I wouldn't be letting them in
there at all. However, thisis where the nightmare began. Fantastic.
We're just gonna take a very quickad break here. Hey guys, Megan
here, I just wanted to tellyou about the season of That So Fucked

(26:18):
Up Presents that I was lucky enoughto be a part of with host Ashley
Richards. Every season actually covers adifferent variety of cases, and this time
we covered the world's most gruesome gals. Head on over to That's So Fucked
Up on any of your listening platformsto hear all about Katherine Knight, Carla
Hamoka, are more. Here's asneak peek. Are you ready for the

(26:41):
gnarliest part of the story. Nope, Okay, here we go. She
then went on to skin him anddid this so precisely that his skin wasn't
one piece. I am fucking nauseous. So welcome back from the break.
Myself and leave also had to takea break because we have been recording for

(27:03):
over an hour of which you'll probablysee twenty minute twenty minutes. We're so
bad we get side tracked. It'sbecause since recording, since we started recording
the podcast, we don't FaceTime asmuch. Yes, and so I think
then it's like giddiness of not havingtalked to you in a while, even

(27:26):
though I was talking to you earlier, but that was not like you know,
so I know, I know hatchup time, and it's like,
no, we're actually supposed to berecording a dead serious podcast. That's the
night Drew Crime just too annoying us. Girls, you haven't spoken in approximately
twelve hours, not even because wespoke at like six pm. It's no

(27:51):
ten. We were sitting to recordat eight. Yeah, so like we
literally talked to each other two hoursprior to recording this. But yet here
I am being like, we knowfaith time that much anymore, and we
are professionals. Let's go. InOctober nineteen eighty eight, John Schmadski got
in his tan color in nineteen seventyfive Mercury Comments and went, you were

(28:18):
just gonna say out his tann on. Yeah, yeah, I don't know
why. My brain was just like, he's putting on tan. I mean
he is having a mid life crisis, Yes he is. I can I
can imagine him going to a tanningtanning bed, tanning salon. So he
got into his tan color nineteen seventyfive Mercury comment and went what he called

(28:41):
cruising. Why did again? Whydid they call it weird ship? Why
are they always calling it cruising?He's like the fourth person to be like
and cruising, no Rolin talking.You're just being a goddamn fucking creep who's
looking to attack some per in anunbeknownst victim. And that's exactly what he

(29:03):
did when he came across a fourteenyear old Native American girl who I will
only name as Kirsten to protect herprivacy. He found her out walking on
the street one night when she wasout with her friends. John pulled up
beside her, and after only afew minutes, he managed to talk her
into getting into his car. Howdid they do it? I think the
whole stranger danger thing is a morerecent thing. Maybe like back in the

(29:27):
day they were more trusting of others. I feel John says that at that
point it was obvious the two weregoing to have sex. Was it okay
with the fourteen year old who wasdrunk? She'd been out drinking with her
friends. Okay, John, you'rejust a predator, okay, right.
He brought her to his mother's home, which was supposedly the house next door

(29:51):
to his home. There, Johnchanged Kirsten and threw her into a small
shed that held pumping equipment at theback of the home. Like he changed
her, put a chain around herankle, like almost right away. Quote
the first day there was a chainand I put it around her ankle and
I found a place to hook it. She didn't like that. You don't

(30:11):
say, I can't imagine why.No, can't imagine why. Nope.
The young girl woke up naked andcold in the shed, not remembering how
she got there. John told herthat she had to have sex with him
every day and that his bosses arekeeping her there. And this is a
common theme that we'll see from JohnTrip my God. For nearly three years,

(30:38):
personal was subject to endless sexual abuseevery single day. Three years.
This poor girl, fourteen years old, Jesus. John would make her keep
a log of everything she did inthe day, so he would give them
like a diary or a calendar,and she would have to put the letter
t for brushing teeth, s forsex b if they had a bath or

(31:04):
a shower. The rape was aneveryday thing. They didn't get to brush
their teeth every day. They wouldbe washed with a garden hose maybe once
every two weeks. About eleven monthsafter being kept in the shed, John
decided to move Kursten elsewhere, atiny two room bunker four feet underground that

(31:25):
he had dug in his own backyard. As we had spoken about previously.
What you mean that wasn't for aparty space? Weird, right, my
odd so unexpected. It was veryminimally furnished with a crudely made toilet which
was literally a bucket, and whatlooked to be you know those like walking

(31:48):
canes, like a zimmer frame.It looks to be like a zimmer frame
over the book, like that theycould like hold themselves over it. A
bathtub which was not connected to anything. He fed a garden hose through like
event I believe or something, andthat's what he would use to share them

(32:08):
with. And a piece of foampadding to be used as a mattress.
And this was a very thin pieceof phone padding that he put over like
crates that you would see in bursto hold. Like he couldn't even get
the mattresses. No, no,And this is all control I think for
John. Like he controlled when theybrushed their teeth, he would control when

(32:32):
they ate, he would control everything. It was like about having the ultimate
control. He would bring Kurston onemeal a day. She did say that
she could request what she wanted,so if it was like a burger or
something, she would get that.But it was once a day. Yes,
still not enough, like as iflike the fact that she can request

(32:54):
it is so good of him.And that's what he wanted her to believe.
He wanted that, He wanted herto believe that he was just as
much a victim of circumstance as shewas. If you caught earlier when I
said bosses, John would say thatthere were these bosses and he was part
of a bigger group of people thatwanted to sell Kirsten and these other women

(33:22):
turn them into slaves. Yeah,it's a royal case of I don't want
to do this, I'm being forcedto do this by my bosses. Yeah.
Now, to keep a really tightgrip on control over Kirsten. He
would tell her constantly that he wouldkill her family if she ever tried anything,
and she believed him, which ofcourse you would, Oh, absolutely

(33:42):
sure, Why wouldn't she. She'sfour like she was fourteen. The sexual
assaults, among other activities that theywould do, were all recorded by John,
so he would actually set it upto record. Probably told her it
was so his bosses could watch.That is exactly what he told her.

(34:02):
John forced Kurston to write letters andonce even sent an audio tape back to
her family, and he sent themwith pictures he had taken of her to
make it seem like she was absolutelyfine. When Kirston was seventeen, John
decided randomly to let her out.He brought her to California for a week's

(34:22):
stay in a cabin in Lake Tahoe. Once they got back to Syracuse,
he asked his twenty nine year oldson to pretend to be a chauffeur,
and him and his son dropped herblindfolded at a Syracuse airport, where she
was able to call her mother andfinally be reunited with her family. What

(34:44):
did he just get fed up ofher or something or got too old.
I don't think it's the age,which we'll see in a bit, but
I don't know. I don't know, and we'll find out later that John
has this thing where he thinks he'sdone nothing wrong because he didn't actually kill
anybody. That's not how that works. No, and after speaking with her

(35:06):
family, Kirsten decided to not goto the police about her experience. And
the reason for this is because Johnactually seemed to know a lot about her
family, like her whole family's names, where they lived, everything. He
knew everything, and she was like, we don't know how Yeah, she
was like, that's so weird.Like, so I don't want to go

(35:28):
to the police, because what ifhe comes for you guys? He scared
her and he had threatened to yes, he had threatened to kill them as
well. He might be thinking aswell, why this Sun had been present
in the car and had just notsaid anything and was just like, okay,
fine, I'll drive you in thisblindfolded girl to an airport, all
right. Well, John had toldhim that the girl had The girl's parents

(35:51):
had requested for John to basically imprisonher so that she could lose weight,
and now she's lost enough weight,so he was bringing her back. He
was sending her back home, andthe sun bought that. I guess you
don't ever think that your dad isthat much of a monster. And his
dad was kind of like eccentric.The older he got, the more eccentric
he God, I know, andI suppose in a sense as well,

(36:14):
you'd rather believe that than believe thathe was doing anything bad. So it's
like, I'll just accept this becausethe other things the easiest. Yeah,
if I have to accept anything else, it's so difficult that just know,
I'll just accept this. On thethirty first of March nineteen ninety five,
John found and abducted a fourteen yearold Latin American girl who will just call

(36:36):
Michelle. She had supposedly run awayfrom home. John asked her if she
would deliver a package for him,and that he would pay her very very
well for this. She agreed andgot in the car with him, where
she was instructed to lie down soas not to ruin this surprise. However,
John drove directly into his garage andthe young girl was brought out to

(36:59):
the bunker, where she too wouldsuffer sexual abuse at the hands of John
Jamelski. It's reported that Michelle toldinvestigators that she was as mean as she
could be to John, kicking,fighting, and even spitting at him,
but this didn't deter him To gether to comply, John showed her pictures
of her family and made threats againstthem. He would regularly take pictures of

(37:22):
her as she lay scared in thedungeon. After fifteen months of abuse,
she was blindfolded and left outside hermother's place. Again for fear of retaliation.
This girl and her family decided notto contact the police, and another
reason for them not going to thepolice was that John would regularly slowly drive

(37:45):
by the house and make sure thathe was seen as a way to intimidate
her. I mean good. Soher family wouldn't have known what he looked
like, but she wouldn't. She'dremember the car. Yeah, she knew
what he looked like. She knowhe looked like, and she knew what
car he drove because she got intoit. Obviously. Yeah, she didn't

(38:07):
know his name. One thing thatJohn never did was tell any of his
victims' real name. He would oftenuse biblical names, and he would also
something that I had left at butI believe he would make Kirsten read the
Bible to him. Did they everfind out how he was getting like information

(38:28):
of their families? So I wasreading like forums and stuff on this because
I was curious too, And Ibelieve from the likes of they had the
White Pages, which is like theYellow Pages. Yeah, so I think
addresses and phone numbers were listed atthe time. And then if the family

(38:50):
had ever gone on the news totalk about the disappearance of the child,
to be like, if you've seenmy daughter, please like tell police,
and like we just want our herback. And exactly so he knew the
child who to take photos of.John's third victim, a fifty three year
old Vietnamese woman. So this timethe woman is fifty three, She's not

(39:14):
a teenager. Normally, who's mycriminal minds coming through? Normally they sit
like stick with the same age,like in and around the same ages and
kind of they all look the sameand or like look similar. Can I
put a very creepy thought into yourbrain? John was a hoarder, as

(39:36):
some might say a collector, wasjust collect so if you think about it,
exactly so he has and as wego through it, like they're all
of his victims are of different ethnicitiesand different ages. Most of them he's
collecting women of different cultures and differentage so it's like he has a variety.

(40:00):
Yeah, which is so sick tosay and so creepy. And can
I just say that book The Collector, which was then turned into a movie,
that book, I feel like somany serial killers and just creeps in
general, like really seemed to usethat book as something. It almost taught

(40:22):
them, not taught, but gavethem the idea exactly. Because the whole
book is centered around like this,and I haven't read it. I don't
know, I've just read things aboutit because it's also involved in a different
case I've been researching for a while. But this guy, I think he
collects butterflies and then he sees likethis beautiful woman and he falls in love

(40:44):
with her, and he basically kidnapsher and keeps her till the point that
she dies. And I think thebook kind of ends on like a,
oh, well, I'm going tohave to get another one. So he
was collecting butterflies and then he collectedher in the same way. Yeah,
So this woman was abducted on Augustthirty first, nineteen ninety seven. Like
all of his previous victims, thiswoman was reported missing by loved ones.

(41:06):
The sexual abuse continued, and atthis stage John was actually relying on viagra
and other medications to assist him physicallyin abusing the women. So he's getting
up an age, struggling more tokind of have sexual relations, if you
want to call them that. Yeah, because he still had the drive to
abuse these women, but he couldn'tphysically keep up. To his regret,

(41:30):
there was a big language barrier,as this woman did not have a very
high level of English. John wouldlater go on to say that this woman
would sing to him in Vietnamese.Quote, she had the most beautiful a
cappella voice with no accompaniment accompaniment.I can't say this word accompany ement whatsoever.

(41:51):
It was reported that John hit thiswoman so hard he actually permanently injured
her ear. Oh my god.On the twenty thirty of May ninety eight,
John dropped this woman off at abus station with fifty dollars. This
woman actually did go to the police, but she was ignored, like it's
easier to intimidate fourteen year olds.Of course they're going to say no,

(42:14):
I'm not going to go to policewith this. He's going to kill my
family, and what if he actuallydoes kill my family? In the wise
words of Schmidt from New Girlali,she reportedly mistakenly believed that she had been
held in Rochester, which is decentlyfar from de Witt. I think it's
like a thirty or nineteen minute drive. You don't know how long he was

(42:36):
driving her around. Well, hedropped her off at a bus station,
and if she doesn't have a highlevel of English, and then also the
bus station, if it is thesame now as it was back then.
I remember being on a bus forto get to it, you know,
a town twenty minutes over when Iwas in Boston, and it took like
two hours. Yeah, because theygo around the whole place and stop at

(42:59):
every stop. Yeah. So likeif, like you said, if she
hasn't got good English or anything likethat, of course she's going to be
like confused, confused as to whereshe was hell captive. In a magazine
article that I read about this,They're a detective actually said that the difficulties
in communicating her immigrant status and thefact that she was alive meant the police

(43:21):
brushed her off because they told herkidnapped women don't usually come back alive.
That shouldn't be a reason to notlisten to her. Oh sorry, you
survived, so you know it mustn'thave been that bad. But you're still
an immigrant, so there's still that. Yeah. Sorry, we're just not
going to be able to help you. So you're not from a wealthy family,

(43:45):
so I can't do it. Don'tparticularly care that much. And I'd
like to remind you that during allof this, Dorothy is lying in the
bed in the house, extremely sick, dying. Basically, your wife is
dying, but you're concerned with fuckingcollecting children and women, You sick pervert.

(44:05):
She died in nineteen ninety nine,and their son said that this is
the only time he'd ever seen hisdad cry. That is so sad,
I know, for the kids,for her, like it was an untimely
death. My heart goes out tothem. Yeah. I always find it
really sad when like it's like,no, I've never seen my dad crying.

(44:29):
I've seen my dad cry all thetime, my baby. Yeah.
No, Paul goes on like he'slike a fucking barrier, but really he's
just like a giant little marshmallow.Yeah, I love your dad so much.
I remember going to visit you afteryou just had Anna, and like
I walked in the door and hewas like, what's your d want?

(44:50):
Like immediately handed me alcohol, andhe like handed me alcohol as well,
and I was like, I haveto walk home with my baby. It's
like two pm on like a Wednesday. We're big fans of Paul in this
household. On May eleventh, twothousand and one, Jennifer was abducted.
She was twenty six years old anda mother. While she was walking from

(45:12):
one friend's house to another one night, John offered her a lift home and
she agreed. The next thing sheknew, she was chained in John's bunker
again. John raped her every singleday. Jennifer did also try to fight
John off, but he burned heron the back with a cigar, leaving
a wound that would eventually turn intoan abscess. Jesus. At this point,

(45:35):
there was a TV in the bunkerand Jennifer would watch the news stories
of her family searching for her.Oh God, that's awful. Yeah.
It was at this point that Johndecided to let Jennifer send a letter home
saying that she was in a rehabcenter, and so the searches were called
off. John would tell Jennifer thathis bosses were selling her on the internet

(45:57):
as a sex slave and that hewas trying to save her. After nearly
three months, John let Jennifer go, dropping her at her mother's place.
Jennifer did go to the police,and she told them that this man because
she didn't know his real name,because he doesn't tell his name, drove
in nineteen seventy four Mercury comment.But this led to a dead end,

(46:21):
as John drove in nineteen seventy fivemodel. When they checked for a nineteen
seventy four version, they found oneperson that had it and it wasn't them.
And I think she might have gottenthe color a little bit confused,
which you you know obviously, butwould they not I know, she's say
in nineteen seventy four, but wouldyou not be like, okay, common

(46:45):
sense here, Like she was blindfolded, she didn't see much of it.
It was probably dark when she wasabducted, So would maybe we should check
for nineteen seventy three comments in nineteenseventy five comments and see that leads us,
because maybe she's just maybe she justgot a little bit confused because she
has been in a bunker for thirtymonths. No, they didn't. A

(47:08):
detective did say that they investigated allleads that they could at the time,
but they all led nowhere. Nowfor the final victim. This was a
sixteen year old black girl who wewill call Mica. One night in October
two thousand and two, John managedto talk Mika into getting into his car
on the premise of making money.He brought her back to his disgusting home,

(47:31):
where she was forced into the dungeon. He told her that vicious dogs
would rip her to pieces if sheever tried to escape. The sexual abuse
continued, and John told her thatthere were other people that wanted to rape
her. Two. I'd like topoint out that this is something John told
every one of his victims, andI think I mentioned this early in the

(47:52):
episode him that he was not theonly one. That there were others,
members of the police force, hisbosses. He said this was everywhere and
that they were keeping an eye onthings. Miko was clever and she somehow
managed to build a sort of abond with John. She was afforded luxuries
the other women didn't have. Shewould have some access to parts of the

(48:13):
house, and John would take heron outings out for food and to play
billiards. Even once brought her outfor a karaoke night. So she was
clever because she knew, if Igo along with this, I'll survive much
longer because keep him sweet. Soit's a real case of if I go
along with what he wants, there'sa higher risk of me surviving because she

(48:38):
doesn't know that he's done this before, that he's let other women go exactly,
So she doesn't know that other womenhave been let go, So she
thinks to herself, like, ifI do this, I have a higher
chance of surviving it. I doremember, as he would play videos or
audio recordings of women screaming just toair them. There was graffiti all over

(49:00):
the walls of this place, like, I'm sure that she knew that there
had been other women, but shedoesn't know that they've survived exactly. So
John had obviously a certain amount oftrust in her, but he still boarded
up the windows of his home fromthe inside so that she could never escape,
even when he did let her intothe other parts of the house,

(49:22):
So he trusted her more than theothers, but he still wasn't dumb.
The daily rapes continued, and likethe other victims, these were also recorded.
On April eighth, two thousand andthree, John took Mika with him
to the Bottle Redemption Center. Hevisited every week to sell the bottles that
he collected, and I believe hewould sell them for like a five cents

(49:42):
each, not that that's relevant,but while John spoke with a friend who
worked there, he asked if Micacould use the phone to call a church
that she hadn't interest in, becausethis is something that they also bonded over.
John was a very religious man andMika, you know, she did
pray every day and she was religioustoo, so it's something that she used

(50:05):
as a method to kind of connectwith him. So when she said,
I want to call a church andask them about their times and if I
can maybe go to a mass andstuff, He's like, you know what,
She's been on outings with me beforeand she hasn't tried anything, so
and I'm right here, what canshe do? Went through the suffering of
it all, and she was justlike, I'm just gonna bide my time

(50:30):
and I'm gonna let him trust me, and I'm gonna let him fall into
that false, false sense of securitywith me. And when I feel like
I have it, then I'm goingto go ahead and try and make my
move. And she was so smartbecause instead of calling a church, Mika
actually called her sister. She couldn'tsay much, obviously, but her sister

(50:54):
did ask probing questions like you knowwho you with? Where are you?
You know? Are you there againstyour will? And Mika whispered down the
phone to her I'm with a rapist. Mika then hung up the phone and
left the store with John to goto a pet store a couple of doors
down. Her sister dialed you knowthe number too? I think it's sixty

(51:20):
seven, but real callback yeah,and informed the employee, who answered that
this girl was being held against herwill. The employee then contacted her boss,
who was due for a visit fromJameelski in the pet store. So
the boss owned the bottle redemption centerand the pet store. And the boss

(51:42):
is actually, you know, thefriend who had noticed Gina before. Okay,
so they were like friendly, youknow. Once John and Mika came
and went, the man called tothe police, and within minutes, sixty
seven year old John Jamelski was arrestedand right here, we're going to take
a quick ad break and we're backin the room. Even after his arrest,

(52:07):
John Schamatski couldn't understand why everybody wasmaking such a big fuss over him.
His lawyers actually had to take afew days to convince him that what
he had done was wrong. Hethought, like, genuinely, like he
said this in a televised interview,that he would get away with like community
service or a fine or something.I'll just get a fine for kidnapping what

(52:30):
four women? Five women? Whenyou hear what he has to say.
In the same interview, he's askedabout chaining the victims up, and he
said, quote, people wear anklebracelets all day long, sweetie, but
it's not the same thing, youdumb ass bitch. The interviewer literally looks

(52:52):
at him and he's like, it'snot jewelry, John, to which John
replies with, it didn't hurt them. Half an hour, an hour after
I took them off, they werefine, Okay. I love how Like
the interviewer is like, you didn'tput jewelry on them? Like, how

(53:13):
do you respond to that, doyou know what? You're interviewing this serial
rapist who kidnapped women for like monthsand years at a time, and he's
like, people wear anklip bracelets,Like it's fine, No, it's not,
John, How are you dumb?Obviously he is. Obviously. Investigators

(53:40):
made their way into the dungeon,which was called damp and moldy and covered
in graffiti. To enter the dungeon, which I went through before, you
actually had to go through a smalltunnel that was about eight feet long,
and you'd get through it by beingon your hands and knees. Then once
you reached the entrance to the dungeonand opened it, you needed to walk

(54:01):
down a short ladder through graffiti includedhate ready to rook us, So bring
on the pain and what I findmost chilling piece to all who enter here.
And he had like he had crossesup on the walls in that place.
Oh yes, such a holy sanctmay. A police badge was found
in the home and John did usethis badge to prove to the victims that

(54:23):
he was working for the police.And it was a real one, like
it was one that he had foundthat had gotten lost, like somebody had
lost eight years before because he wasa hoarder. Videos were recovered of the
recorded assaults. In one video,John can be seen dancing with one of
his victims as she pleaded with thebosses to let her go, quickly saying

(54:44):
quote be quick to them as theyreview her case, and John echoing it
with his own be quick, knowingfor a fact it would only ever be
him who would see this video.These tapes, along with the diary recordings
of the victims, where they hadbeen forced to write down everything that they
had done. If you remember,the s for sext for brush, teeth,

(55:05):
be for bathed, were pretty damningevidence. He ended up taking a
plea deal and agreed to plead guilty, so the victims did not need to
go through a long trial process,thankfully. I know. When John showed
in court to enter his guilty plea, he cried to the court about how
sorry he was and about he wassorry about how it affected everyone. No,

(55:27):
John, you're not, because youjust literally not too long ago,
said in an interview that you didn'tactually hurt them. It's funny because that
interview was actually twenty four hours afterhis court appearance. Of course, so
he's like not helping. Fucking swearto god, I did nothing. The

(55:51):
judge told him, quote, youare a sick coward, You're an evil
man. You're a kidnapper and arapist, and your reign of terror is
over. Yes whoo, as Igo on to say, Actually, However,
in the same interview as before,John confesses that he didn't say everything
he wanted to say in court becauseas lawyers stopped him. The lawyer has

(56:14):
been like, please, John,don't make it worse. You're already going
to busy for a long time.Let's not make a death row. He
wanted to finish his speech off withquote two number three, God bless you
and have mercy on you, andhave him help you increase your vocabulary because
if you remember, victim number threewas the Vietnamese woman. Two number three.

(56:38):
I didn't bother learn your names,because who cares. I just assaulted
you for many, many months.John goes on to say that he did
not hit her and that he didnot rape her. He said he was
sorry for having sex with a minorand that there were times when the girls
wanted to leave, but most ofthe time they were fine with it.

(56:59):
As part of his plea deal.All of his belongings were to be sold
and divided between the victims. Thehouse was part of this deal, and
really, like I thought this wasreally nice. It was actually bought by
the last victim's brother. Oh that'skind of like it's a real case of
I'll have it so that like nothingbad happened there anymore. Yeah, exactly,

(57:20):
he said. He said it wasto give the victims like a sense
of closure, and I just thoughtit was so sweet. John was recently
up for parole in twenty twenty.At this point, he had been in
prison for eighteen years. Now,I don't ever think that there was any
point that he was actually going toget paroled. I think they just have
to do it. They have togo through the roster, they have to

(57:40):
go through the process. Yeah.Now, straight away, as the interviewer
for this meeting asked about how thewomen came to be locked in the dungeon,
John replied with quote, I hada bunker, and people knew I
had a bunker. We partied alot out there, and I was approached
every now and then by someone whosaid it would be it would be a
good idea for a friend of theirsthat a runaway to be there rather than

(58:01):
out on the streets, and thatthey came and as a tradeoff we had
sex. And during those years thatnobody was in there, I would encourage
them to go back to their familiesas soon as they could. And the
only time the bunker was used wasfor a few parties and stuff, and
then someone else would come in,and a third one, and then a
fourth one, and obviously there wasa fifth one, but in between them

(58:22):
there was nobody there, you know. So I'm just going to go through
like a very quick rundown of whathappened in this Pearl thing because I found
the document. So the questioner I'mjust gonna Q A and A is John.
Q is the questionnaire. Q.What do you think about your behavior?

(58:42):
Sir? Some of your victims wereteenage young girls? A. What
do I feel about something? Something? Something? Teenage girls? So with
something something something. This meeting wasbeing held over the internet, so John
couldn't hear very well, Yeah,yeah, Q about your behavior because some
of them were young teenage girls.What do you think about that? Ay?

(59:06):
They are very promiscuous. Q.I'm asking you do you take responsibility
for your behavior? A yes,yes, yeah. Q. Did you
take advantage of these young girls becauseyou were much older than them? Ay,
they were very manipulating. But Ishould not have taken part in any

(59:27):
of this that I did with them. Q. Do you think you caused
harm to your victims? Ay?Oh yeah, I probably inadvertently. Probably,
yes, yes, I could havetalked them into returning to their families
sooner. But when it did happen, you know, they gathered their stuff
together, we jumped in the car. I drove them to their families.

(59:50):
You know. Sometimes their families wouldcome out and help them carry their stuff
into the house. And then ona lot of occasions, I would return.
If I was in the neighborhood,I'd called up on the phone and
say, Hey, you know,I'm going to be in the neighborhood.
I'll stop by and we'll hang andwe'll hang out for a little while.
This is with all five of them, well all four of them. I
didn't get a chance with the lastone. But if they had anything against

(01:00:14):
me, they would have called thecops and had a swat team hiding in
the bushes and hey, this guyhe graped me, it's coming over,
arrest him and nothing like that everhappened. It's not that big a place.
We were running into each other onthe street, in the club,
at the supermarket, which that turnsrest on a different planet. Yeah,

(01:00:35):
he really is. That's why hedidn't get rolled. He is one percent.
I'm not sorry, No he's not. And then Q, how did
you get arrested? A pardon me? Q? How did you get arrested?
A? Oh, the one girland I, as a matter of
fact, I opened up a jointbank account with her and me because we
would go to the casinos and stuff. She would win money and she carried

(01:00:59):
it in her back pocket, andI said, you have got to have
a bank account. So she knewmy social Security number, she knew everything.
We had a joint checking account,and I said, you know,
I'm going to give you little bitsof money here and there and whatever,
but you know, you have tokeep it safe. And so anyway,
we had opened that up, andsome of her family was very good with

(01:01:19):
me. I mean we would meet, you know, occasionally in different places,
you know, with her sisters.She had a very large family.
But she had one sister that everybodysays, you know, she's a she's
a b I tc H. I'msorry, but everybody thought that she hated
me from day one. And shewas following us around and she knew where
we were, and she called thesheriff and said, I want this man

(01:01:42):
arrested with my little sister. Okay, yeah, oh yes, he is
completely on his own planet. WhenJohn was asked about the conditions in the
dungeon, John said, yeah,there was a foam mattress. It was
a very comfortable mattress. I slepton it. They were made to use
a bucket as a toilet. Therewas a tube with a shower. There

(01:02:05):
were bubble bats with scented towels orscented candles, and there was a shower
for privacy, all of that stuff, you know. And I went into
its own separate septic tank. Butfor people relieving people selves, there was
the thing the toilet from our camperthat my family used for decades and our
valued guests, you know, usedin the camper for decades, and this
is what they have to use,and myself too, because I didn't want

(01:02:30):
that stuff in the septic system.So I mean that, And then the
interviewer just goes, thank you,sir, like shut up, just shut
up. The interviewer is just like, you're talking absolutely porshit. So yeah.
At one point the interviewer a yeah. He literally cuts John off at
one point and goes, thanks forappearing, John. Actually I believe it

(01:02:50):
was a woman she said thanks forappearing John. It's the fact that he's
not even sorry. When he wentto prison, he had done like a
sex offender like rehabilitation course that theyoffer in the prison, and he didn't
really get anything out of it.He actually got kicked out of it because
his attendance went to zero and hisexcuse was, well, everybody else stopped

(01:03:15):
going, so I stopped going.And when he was approached, like,
you know, do you want todo this again? We're standing up again,
he said no, So he didn'twant to read. He didn't.
He still doesn't think he has doneanything or anything. Yeah, he's like,
what do I need repilitation for?Exactly? So, of course his
prole was denied and he will likelydie in prison. Good hope he does.

(01:03:37):
He deserves to those women deserved tohave him spend the rest of his
life in prison, like they deservedto feel safe. Yeah, no,
and ten percent I feel so sorryfor them. At one point, during
the interview, the interview asked like, would you still be doing this if
he hadn't been caught, and hesaid, no, I don't think I

(01:03:57):
would because I was taking viagra towardsthe end. It would have ended because
I don't have the same physical urgesthat I had before. But no,
you're supposed to say no because Idon't want to be a monster anymore,
not because you know, I justdon't have sex with them anymore. So
it's not as fun, not asthrilling. Yeah, But like he says
that, he says that it wouldhave ended because he didn't have the same

(01:04:20):
physical urges that he had before.But then at this in the same breath,
is like, Oh, I tookthese women in to like rehabilitate them
because like they were going down thewrong path in life and I was trying
to help and they just gave mesex. Then what's with the sexual urges?
Yeah, because his whole thing waslike when he was speaking to like
detectives and the Jodge and everything,he was like, Oh, I took

(01:04:40):
these women in, they offered mesex for room and board, Like that's
what was happening. It's on thembasically, Yeah, And He's like,
there were yeah, there were timeswhen they couldn't leave and yet they had
chains, but like you know,it was it was fine. No,
John, No, it wasn't fine. Anyway. That is the end of
our story. Um. I hopehe never gets to see daylight again here.

(01:05:08):
That was a really interesting case actually, and it was fun that nobody
died. Yeah, that was likeevery time when I was researching, every
time he was like letting somebody go, I was like, you can,
like let it side. Yeah.Yeah, And even though these women had
to survive something absolutely horrific and horrible, at least they did survive, and

(01:05:31):
I believe they got the help thatthey needed eventually. The police department wasn't
creation at the beginning. M hm, when are they ever? Um a
common thing? But yeah, no, at least like they were all alive
in the end. And for aplay to that woman for calling her sister,

(01:05:54):
Yeah, honestly, like super smart, like really amazing, really really
amazing. We're just gonna cut itoff right now because recording for a while.
So really hope you enjoyed this SIGepisode. If you did, and
you haven't already done, so checkout our previous episodes. You can get
them wherever you are listening to yourpodcasts. If you want to follow us

(01:06:16):
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(01:06:40):
it really cheers up our day,makes us feel like we're not just wasting
our time doing this podcast and thatpeople are actually enjoying it and listen.
Okay, twenty twenty two, don'tknow why, couldn't possibly tell you why,
but it was a hard year.Yeah, here is to twenty twenty

(01:07:03):
three, when we will actually likeif there's still a few weeks to go.
But I'm just telling you guys,it's comedy our year. Okay,
I'm feel it, M feel it. Hype us up, hYP us up
to all your friends. Oh mygod, yes, word of it.
All right, we have a greatday, you guys, have a fantastic

(01:07:25):
day, and we will see y'allnext week. I love you, Clauncha.
It's the genesee Qua Siswa is acistua or sistua. I also,
I was like, they're saying sister, but like sista, no, I

(01:07:47):
think it's a friend. Oh Cistaall right, sister? Oh are you
excited to see your sisters when Igo home for quiz mois uh the hub

(01:08:15):
for quiz Mos