The Vatican Girl

Hey guys!

This week, Niamh tells us the story of 'The Vatican Girl', Emanuela Orlandi, who was a teenager who mysteriously disappeared from the city of Rome in 1983, and the many theories as to what happened to her.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi, and welcome back to giveus more n Hi'm Megan, and we
almost forgot to press record. Yeah, that could have been a catastrophe.
I literally was just about to startand you're like, oh, let me

(00:22):
just record it. And so how'sthe years guys, this week been.
Can you enjoying what we're putting thatso far? Because I got a depressing
case today. Oh fun, that'sbut it's also filled with mystery. So
okay, okay, let's do it. Yeah. So this week I am

(00:46):
going to tell you all about Emmanuelaa Lordi or some of you may know
the Vatican Girl on Netflix does obviouslywhere I got my inspiration from, and
I watched it twice because I hadto refresh my memory. That is also
something that I started watching and justdidn't quite finish. So Emmanuela or Landi

(01:11):
was born January fourth, nineteen sixtyeight, in the Vatican City of Rome,
Italy. Her father was Heir Coleand her mother was Maria Orlandi.
She had four siblings, Petro,Natali, Natalie, Natala natal I can't

(01:32):
my brain your glitching, Natalia Federicaand Maria. I'm very sorry if I
know I butchered like every single oneof those names, Yeah, especially Maria,
but they're Italian, Okay, Irish, so I struggle. Her father,

(01:53):
er Cole, was an employee inthe papal household in the Vatican,
so he were in the Vatican,just like his father and his grandfather.
So this family has been in theVatican and working closely with the Vatican for
generations. At this stage, itwas very common for Emmanuela and her siblings

(02:15):
to play in the Vatican gardens,and it was quite normal for the family
to interact with the Pope and otherhigher ups in the church from time to
time, just from being in likethe in the gardens and stuff. I
would ship myself. If I wasin front of the Pope, I would
feel like he would know all ofmy deepest, darkest, horrible secrets.

(02:37):
I'd feel like you'd tried to judgeme, but nobody can judge me.
Only God can judge me. Innineteen eighty three, fifteen year old Emmanuela
would disappear. She was in hersecond year of secondary school. She sang
in the church choir and was atalented flute player. Emmanuela was attending music

(02:58):
lessons three times a week. Oneof the best music schools in Rome.
She had to take a bus toget to the school, which was based
in Central Rome, which meant shehad to leave the Vatican City. It
wasn't from what I remember, itwasn't so far away from the gates of
Vaticans. No, it's not liketoo far away. But like once you

(03:19):
exit those grounds, you're considered thenin Italy, and in Italy you're considered
then in Rome. And even thoughlike the Vaticans literally in the center of
Rome, but you know, stillconsidered Central Rome. Yeah, yeah,
and like she still had to getlike a bus to wherever it was.
On June twenty second, nineteen eightythree, Emmanuela was running late for her

(03:42):
music class, and she asked herbrother Petro to drive her. He told
Emmanuela that he couldn't bring her ashe was driving his then girlfriend to the
airport. That would be the lasttime that he would ever see his sister.
After her music class, Emmanuela ranghome and her sister Fredrika answered.
She said that she was going tobe late coming home as a woman who

(04:04):
was selling Avon products had approached herand offered her a well paying job to
hand out leaflets like it was justlike, hey, I'll pay you,
I know, twenty year old tolike hand out these fifteen leaflets or something,
you know, like guy, yeah, easy money. I'll just do
was walk around Rome for an hourhanding out leaflets and she's made however much

(04:27):
money. Emmanuela was then last seenby her classmates at a bus stop at
around seven thirty pm with an unidentifiedgirl. Emmanuela's family began to get a
little bit concerned as it was startingto get quite late and she wasn't home
yet. They decided that they weregoing to go out looking for her,
and they looked for her between theVatican and the music school. Her father

(04:49):
then went to report her missing twopolice, but he was asked to wait
until morning because they have to bemissing for so many hours. I don't
think that's the case at all anywhereanymore. And I think in America they
have to be missing twenty four hours. Was that not removed with a law?
I think children are a different case, but adults I think have to

(05:10):
be missing at least twenty four hours. Okay, because with kids, know
you have amber alerts, yes,yeah, but I think I think adults
Correct me if I'm wrong. Ifwe're from America. But I'm I'm pretty
sure Americans still have to like adultshave to be missing twenty four hours,
okay, which, like, I'msorry, is that not like the most

(05:32):
crucial time to find them? Theyliterally have a show called the First twenty
four They have another show just calledtwenty four Yeah, and it's all about
her. That was twenty four hoursand the most crucial any hoodults. Emmanuela
was declared officially missing the following morning, and over a couple of days,

(05:55):
the press began releasing photos of Emmanuelato try and help find her. Even
twenty fifth, at about six pm, a guy who was claiming to be
a sixteen year old boy named perLuigi per Luigi, he said that he
and his fiance he's claiming to besixteen, He and his fiancee had met

(06:17):
Emmanuela at Piazza Novana that afternoon.He was able to describe her, and
he mentioned that she was carrying aflute and that she had a big pair
of glasses that she didn't like wearing, which was true, she did.
She had like big chunky glasses,I think chunky, and that she hated
having to wear but she like hadtwo for certain certain instances and sorry,

(06:43):
can we just go back to anengaged sixteen year old? Yeah? So
I'm pretty sure that this guy islike who he says he is and is
not sixteen. Okay. I lovethe way he's like, I'm gonna lie
and pretend like I'm sixteen. Some and my fiance where I don't know.

(07:05):
I've I feel like I knew somepeople in school that we're getting engaged
at sixteen, but it was likenot really real, Yeah, we're engaged,
Jade it and me. That's man, because we're in sixteen. So
this guy said that Emmanuela had justgotten her hair cut and he and introduced

(07:30):
herself as Barbarrella, and she wastelling them about how she got a job
selling Avon products and she was likeon her way to start a new life,
and sorry, Barbarella is the sickestfucking name. What's her name,
Barbarrella? I want that name.She also told them about how she'd just

(07:51):
ran away from home, and youknow, they were just like, cool,
cool, You're not the missing girl, are you. Then on June
twenty eighth, a man named Mario, which I have to write because these
are not real people, well,they are real people, but they're not
who they say they are, andthey chose Mario and Luigi. It's me

(08:15):
a Mario. He rang to saythat he was the owner of a bar
between the Vatican and Emmanuela's music school. A new customer of his was a
young girl named Barbara, and shehad told him about how she had just
run away from home, but shewas going to return home soon for her
sister's wedding, and one of her, like her older sister I, was

(08:37):
engaged, so it was like,ooh interesting m A few days later,
the our Landi family began putting upmissing persons posters all over Rome. On
July third, during the Angelus,Pope John Paul the Second appeal to those
responsible for Emmanuela's disappearance to bring herhome. Shortly after this, the Orlandi

(09:01):
family began receiving phone calls from aguy that they named the American. The
man claimed that he had taken Emmanuelaon behalf of a terrorist group that they
called Turkesh. They were willing toexchange Manuela for Mamet ali Aki. I'm
so sorry if I murdered that name. Mamet was a turkish Man who had

(09:24):
shot Pope John Paul second in Maynineteen eighty one in an attempted assassination.
No further information was ever given tothe family, and then the family would
receive more calls from the so calledAmerican. He would even go on to
play a recording of emmanuel screaming.The American rang the Vatican making their demands.

(09:46):
They wanted to do a prisoner exchange. The American told the Vatican that
per Luigi and Mario were a partof the Turkesh and that they had made
these phone calls on behalf of theTurkesh to give the family hope. That's
just really sick and twisted ship.On July sixth, a man informed NASA

(10:09):
News agency about the prisoner exchange.They said that the Pope had twenty days
to pardon Memet. They said thatin a bin near the Italian Parliament was
proof that they had Emmanuela. Andin this spin they found a photocopy of
Emmanuela's student id, a receipt forher tuition, and a note that was
reportedly written by Emmanuela. How didthey get a receipt for her tuition?

(10:33):
It was I think in her likesupposed to be in her bag or in
her pocket or something, oh okay. On July eighth, a man reportedly
rang one of Emmanuela's classmates, tellinghim that Emmanuela had twenty days. He
then asked for a direct line tothe Vatican Secretary of State. This line,

(10:54):
so there was no like you couldn'tpick up your phone and directly call
the Vatican Secretary of State. Youhad to like go through a bunch of
people. M Can I just askwhat the fuck was a classmate supposed to
do about all of this? Yeah, I don't know. And they just
kept ringing everyone being like she hastwenty days, like the val like the

(11:16):
pope has twenty days to like pardonyour man. So your man attempted to
kill the pope was naturally arrested andcharged for it. And then they were
trying to say that no, heneeded to be let out and that in
exchange for this, we will giveyou Emmanuela. And like the top process
was that she was from the VaticanCity like, and her family worked for

(11:41):
generations within the Vatican, so itwas like she was supposed to hold significance,
but see the pope don't care.I'm shocked, horrified, that the
Pope doesn't care, Pope, justgo Pope in his little popemobile. So
the direct line to the Vatican Secretaryof State was installed. On July eighteenth,

(12:05):
the American made about sixteen phone callsfrom various different public phones all across
Rome. On July seventeenth, anaudio tape of a girl being tortured was
found near the NSA headquarters, whichis just like a news a news outlet.
Later on, the recording was publishedand was given to the Orlandi family.

(12:26):
However, the officer who had foundthe tape claimed that the tape given
to the Orlandi family was either manipulatedor faith I think I remember this from
the show, and they were sayingthat they thought it was porn. Yeah,
it's so when you listen to thetape, you would get the impression
that it's someone being tortured. Butif you like unjust like a first listen

(12:52):
kind of a thing, but onfurther listen, it actually more so sounds
like a porno right. Yeah,But he's saying that the tape that he
found was different to the tape thatwas given to the Orlandi family. Oh
yeah, So he claimed that theoriginal tape was longer and you could hear
a male voice in the background.Oh my god. So why would they

(13:15):
do that? Because Pope gonna Pope. On August fourth, nineteen eighty three,
the NSA received a letter from theTurkesh. They claimed to have Emmanuela
and would free her in exchange forthe freedom of Memet. They never gave
any physical evidence that they actually hadEmmanuela, Like it was all this like
circumstantial, Like here's a photocopy ofher, id who's to say you didn't

(13:41):
just find her bag, Like theynever like sent a photo of her,
or they never put her on thephone. But the only thing was was
that they were able to give detailsabout her, and they even mentioned about
how how many moles that she hadon her back. Right in October nineteen
eighty three, Turkesh claimed the responsibilityfor the disappearance of another girl. Marrella

(14:07):
Gregory was born October seventh, nineteensixty seven, in Rome, Italy.
On May seventh, nineteen eighty three, Marella got a phone call from one
of her classmates, Alessandro, tellingher they were outside. Marrella went missing
before Emmanuela and in October nineteen eightythree, so after the disappearance of Emmanuela,

(14:30):
and after a few months of beinglike, we have Emmanuela, like
released this guy, then they werelike, oh, by the way,
we also kidnapped another girl back inMay, and nobody like right. So
Marella went missing. On May seventh, nineteen eighty three, she got a
phone call from one of her classmates, Alessandro, telling her that they were
outside. Marrella told her mother thatshe was going to go down and see

(14:54):
them and that she would be backin about ten minutes. Marrella was never
seen again. Turkesh took responsibility forher disappearance and requested that the Italian president
pardon Memet in exchange for the releaseof Marella. So the thought process in
this is that they took someone fromRome so that they could use her to

(15:16):
bergain with the Italian government, andthen they took somebody from the Vatican so
that they could use her to bargainwith the Pope and with the Vatican.
So they took someone from each areato be like, we have these two
girls from Rome and the Vatican worktogether, pardon him, get him out.

(15:41):
On October twentieth, nineteen eighty three, the Italian President publicly appealed for
the two girls to be freed andbrought home safely. In nineteen ninety seven,
the Emmanuela case was dismissed by thepublic prosecutor as there had been no
new leads or evidence. In twentyPietro and his mother met Pope Francis outside

(16:03):
from Mass. As Pietro made hisway over to the Pope, a guard
whispered something in the Pope's ear,and then the Pope made a comment,
Emmanuela is in heaven. Oh.This made Pietro believe that the Pope and
the Vatican knew something about Emmanuela's disappearance. Pietro questioned why the Pope would say

(16:25):
something like that, and to thisday is still questioning why the Pope would
say something like that. So thereare many many theories as to what happened
to Emmanuela. In two thousand,an Italian prosecutor stated that Emmanuela was alive
and well. He believed that shewas living in a Muslim in a Muslim
community in Paris. What why wouldshe, having grown up literally in the

(16:49):
Vatican, then change her religion.So it's like believed that like she was
kidnapped and then like brainwashed to bea part of this like terrorist slash Muslim
community. And I'm not saying yeah, like I'm not saying that Muslims are
terrorists. I'm saying that this iswhat like is being you know, like

(17:11):
this these are don't get it confused, please. Mamet also stated in an
interview that Emmanuela had been kidnapped bythe Gray Wolves, which is a far
right Turkish organization. He said thatEmmanuela was still alive and living in Central
Europe. The group the Turkish,had originally taken responsibility. It all turned

(17:33):
out to be a made up organizationand as far as police investigations could prove,
like, there was no proof thatthis was a real life terrorist organizing.
Like so when she first got abducted, someone was going around being like,
we are the Turkish, like weare a terrorist organization. Mamet is
with us, release him and you'llget these two girls back. Now Here

(17:57):
we are in two thousand and it'sbeen proved, as far as police can
prove, this isn't a terrorist organization. This is just someone being like released
my met Okay, all right,my meta fans, you gotta make up
a whole terrorist organization for a man, really a man that's shot the pope,

(18:21):
shot the Pope. I don't understandwhat Like I don't care for the
Pope doesn't mean I'm going to goshoot the man. Yeah, It's just
I wouldn't go out of my wayif he was in my back garden,
you know, my offer and mycup of tea. But that'd be about
it. I think I'd be abit like, oh shit, pops my
garden the fuck. Some people believethat the Turkish had links with the Italian
intelligence, as they knew details aboutEmmanuela's case that only police at the time

(18:45):
would know. Okay. In twothousand and eight, a former agent of
the Secret Service of Germany claimed thatthe Gray Wolves were responsible for Immanuela's disappearance.
He claimed that this was to coverup the theory that Moment was working
with the Bulgarian secret Service when hetried to assassinate Pope John Paul the Second.

(19:07):
He reported that the idea came fromthe KGB, the KGE. You
don't fuck with the KGB. Sohere we are interesting. Interesting. So
i'm's going to take a quick littlead break and we're back on July eleventh

(19:30):
to t five an an ominous callerto an Italian talk show claimed that Emmanuela's
case would be solved if they lookedat who was buried in the crypt Basilica
descent apple la a polanaire. I'mvery sorry about that, And if they

(19:52):
looked at the favor the pees didfor Cardinal Polenti, and that's a quote.
Oh what did Cardinal Lenti get upto? So Basilica was a church
with burial crypts commonly kept for highranking officials of the Vatican. It was
discovered that Enrico de Pet's, theleader of a Roman gang, was buried

(20:15):
in a crypt at Basilica in nineteenninety In nineteen ninety seven, an article
was published about this, and ithad caused public outrage at the time and
even protests from the police union becausewhat was a crime boss doing being buried
in Basilica, which was kept forhigher ups in the Vatican. M Cardinal

(20:38):
Palenti was the leader of the bishopsof Italy at the time of Enrico's death
and his burial. The crypt wasopened and the DNA samples were taken,
but nothing proved that Enrico had anythingto do with Emmanuela's disappearance. However,
it started the theory that Enrico killedEmmanuela on the orders of Cardinal Palenti.

(21:02):
Okay. In February two thousand andsix, a former member of Enrico's gang
came forward and said he knew whothe voice of Mario was. He said
it was a man named Roffetto.This was then corroborated by Enrico's former girlfriend,
Sabrina Minardi. Yes, Sabrina,yeah, and no, yeah,

(21:25):
no, Sabrina, I mean yeah, she should have said something a lot
earlier. We don't know how trueSabrina's story is. So Sabrina claimed that
Emmanuela was kidnapped on the orders ofArchbishop Paul Markee. I'm just going to

(21:45):
call him Marcus. That's not hisname, and I'm so sorry, but
I can't pronounce it. I researchedthis literally last year, and so aunciation
has left man. And you thinkI would have watched a video or Google
translated all their names so that Icould say them, but I did not.
So the name is what it is. We're here today the disgraced leader

(22:07):
of the Vatican Bank. So ArchbishopPaul Marcus is a disgraced leader of the
Vatican Bank as part of his powermove. She was like, he kidnapped
this girl for a power move.She stated that Emmanuela was kept in her
apartment outside of Rome for several days. She was locked up in a room
and kept drugged so she couldn't fightback. Then Emmanuela was moved to another

(22:33):
apartment inside of Rome. Sabrina claimedthat Enrico told her to drive the girl
to the Vatican and hand her overto a man dressed like a priest,
and that's what she like, sheclaims that's what she did. She put
Emmanuela in the back of the car, she drove from the apartment to the
Vatican, through all these back roads, met a man who was clearly a

(22:56):
priest or dressed like a priest,and hand Emmanuela after after him, and
then she went on about her businessand do we think it was a real
priest And I'll tell yeah, I'lltell you like my thoughts and that at
the end, Okay, it's it'shard to know what's fact and what's fiction

(23:18):
in this case. And like theper family, like they just want answers
and people are too busy, likebeing so intrigued into the mystery of it
all, that it's like they'll makeup the family has forgotten about and the
fact that it's two girls went missingand we're never we're never here from exactly.

(23:40):
So police do have doubts about Sabrina'sstatement, as she's changed different parts
of her story each time she tellsit. She also mentioned the help of
some people who were dead by nineteeneighty three. Okay. She also changed
the location as to where Emmanuela waskept. Sabrina also has a huge history

(24:03):
of drug abuse, so this justmade her a completely unreliable source. Her
testimony was leaked to the press inJune ties and eight, however, even
though she had given multiple different testimonies. Yeah, I mean, there's for
sure probably i'd say some truth,like she was definitely Enrico's girlfriend at the
time, and she definitely seen someshit, and like, I don't think

(24:26):
it's out of the realm of possibilitythat she could have done something like this,
because I'd say she's a little bitscared of him, a little bit
He's gonna give me my drugs.Yeah, mixture of everything. I'm not
saying that what she's saying is true. But I'm saying it's possible that she's
changing aspects of the story because fromthe drug abuse, is remembering it differently,

(24:48):
maybe, oh mad Judge. Ineleven, the same former member of
Enrico's gang claims that Emmanuela was kidnappedbecause Archbishop Marcus was involved with money laundering.
He had been laundering money in orderto fund the Solidarity movement to fight
communist rule in Poland, which waswhere Pope John Paul the Second was from

(25:11):
the bank that Archbishop Marcus was runningsoon collapsed in nineteen eighty two, and
it's believed that Enrico kidnapped Emmanuela totry force the Vatican into paying him back
for the money that Archbishop Marcus hadlost in the laundering of money schemes that
he was committing. This is allgetting very convolute. So you have one

(25:32):
person saying that Enrico kidnapped Emmanuela onbehalf of this guy for some power move,
some big game plan that he's goingto go ahead with. Then you
have someone saying no, So thisguy laundered a bunch of money and in
nineteen eighty two lost it all,got caught, bank collapsed, was fucked

(25:53):
and anyone that put their money intoit fucked and Ego was one of those
people. And so then he kidnappedEmmanuela to get back at him. But
what would kidnapping Emmanuela do to getback at him exactly? It would maybe
open an investigation that would then leadmaybe to the bank that maybe that's what

(26:15):
he was hoping for, into aninvestigation into what was going on behind the
scenes of the bank. But hedoesn't want an investigation because he is also
a criminal. So I don't know, that's what I mean, Like,
it's all very like what. Yeah. In May two twelve, a priest
Gabrielle Amoth claimed that Emmanuela was kidnappedby the Vatican police for one of their

(26:38):
sex parties fucking Hell. In sixteen, a book was published about this theory,
and an old school friend of Immanuela'scame forward. She remained anominous.
She claimed that shortly before her disappearance, Emmanuela had confided in her that someone
close to the pope had been sexuallyassaulting her in the gardens of the Vatican.

(27:02):
Oh Jesus. The same friend gavethe same interview with Netflix, and
in December twenty two, someone whohad been close to Enrico claimed that someone
from inside the Vatican had ordered thekidnapping of Emmanuela in order to cover up
a sex scandal. Police have beensearching for this man to question him,

(27:22):
but they've been unsuccessful in finding himbecause they obviously want to know more information
about these so called sex parties andthis so called sex scandal that is going
on in the Vatican. One ofthe sex scandals that's going on in the
Vatican. We'll not talk about thatthen the rest, But I like,
I would be quick to believe thatone. I mean, so far out

(27:48):
of everything that I've said, that'ssadly the most likely it is. It
is so like it's a possibility thatthe guy whichever whoever it was, that
was close to the Pope found outthat she confided in a friend and then
was like you gotta go m Intwenty fourteen, someone stole important documents,

(28:08):
important secret documents from the Vatican.This became known as the Vatti League's scandal.
In two thousand seventeen, a journalistEmmaliano Fipaldi managed to gain access to
some of these missing documents. We'llnot go into detail about how he got
how he managed to get some ofthese documents, but he did, Okay,

(28:30):
he did. One of these documentswas signed by two archbishops, Giovanna
Battasta and Jean Louis to Jean Louis, Yeah, Jean Louis. Yeah.
It was an itemized receipt that wassigned on March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety

(28:53):
seven. It claimed that the Vaticanhad spent roughly two hundred and fifty thousand
euros on supporting Emmanuela between nineteen eightythree to nineteen ninety seven. It suggests
that Emmanuela was moved to London underVatican protection and was given her own education,

(29:18):
including a medical degree. The documenteludes that Emmanuela died in early nineteen
ninety seven and the Vatican had herbody flown back to Rome and buried somewhere
in one of the Vatican cemeteries.Right, interesting, right, And like
I did I remember like googling thedocuments and stuff it itemized, Like oh

(29:42):
my god, so it's fair andit's like signed by these archbishops and you're
like what the fuck. The Vaticanand the police deny the existence of such
a document, stating that wherever Emmalianogot his document. It's fake and was
faked and it's not real. However, this is not the first time this

(30:03):
is suggested that the Vatican had Emmanuelamoved to London. On June seventeenth eleven,
an an ominous phone call to Pietro, Emmanuela's brother claimed that Emmanuela was
still alive but was being kept animmense mental institution in London. The caller
claimed that emmanuel was taken there becauseher father knew about the money laundering that

(30:26):
was happening in the Vatican Bank atthe time, and that's the reason for
her being kidnapped, and it wasto shut her father up into not saying
anything. But then in April ofthis year, Pietro came into the possession
of a letter written to Cardinal Palettisent by Archbishop by the Archbishop of Canterbury,
who was George Kerry in nineteen ninetythree. The letter mentioned Emmanuela and

(30:52):
it suggested that the pair should setup a meeting to discuss her further.
The letter was sent to the sameaddress in London that the document had on
it that was like the itdem Eisterseat. It had the same address Okay,
I'm believing this one more. Ithink. Yeah, it's also wild.

(31:15):
Over the years, people had questionedwhy the Vatican had never really officially
opened an investigation into Manuela's disappearance,as she was a Vatican citizen. They
claimed it was because she was technicallykidnapped on Roman soil and not in Vatican.
However, a phone call between MonsignorBritanny and the chief of the Vatican

(31:37):
Police, Raoul Boner rally Boner,I wish it was spelled like Boner,
it's not. They had a phonecall on October twelfth, nineteen ninety three,
and it's revealed that Raoul was beingquestioned in the disappearance of Murrella,

(31:57):
as her mother had stated she hadseen role picking up her daughter outside their
apartment on many occasions. Britanny toldRoule not to say anything about the Vatican's
investigation on Emmanuela's disappearance. What tokeep in secrets for? Yeah, watch
your hiding what you got going onthere? Watch going on? On May

(32:20):
fourteenth to ties in and one,a priest found a bag containing a skull
in a bag of in a bagin a confessional. What what? They
found a bag with a skull ina bag, a bag in a bag.
It wasn't a bag in a bag. So a priest found a bag
that was containing a skull in aconfessional. The skull was small in dimensions

(32:45):
and was missing a jaw. Thepublic immediately jumped to the conclusion that this
is Emmanuela. However, DNA wasnot a match. The Orlande family made
a statement saying they don't they don'tknow why everyone assumed it was Emmanuela when
there was no evidence to suggest otherwise, and that they had never believed it

(33:06):
was her anyway. Did they everfegar out who it was? No,
not that I'm aware of. No, that's sad m So many secrets.
What the frick? Yeah, that'sthat's somebody's head. It's somebody's skull,
and if it's a small one,it's a child. More than likely it's
Yeah. On April sixth seven,during a Good Friday sermon, a reverend

(33:30):
in Rome told people attending the massquote, don't carry your secret to the
grave with you. I have nothingto say. This made people think that
he was talking about Emmanuela and suggestingthe Vatican were keeping secrets about it.
The Vatican then released a press statementquote, as far as we know,
there was nothing hiding, nor aretheir secrets in the Vatican to reveal on

(33:52):
the subject. To continue to assertit is completely unjustified. Also, we
were iterated yet again, all materialsfrom the Vatican was handed over in its
time to the investigating magistrates and topolice. End quote. Okay, whatever
you say, Vatican, just suggestingVatican that may be people are suspicious of

(34:17):
you because you have a lot ofscandals over the years. Yeah, you
kind of do. For someone thatreally shouldn't have scandals, you kind of
have a lot. You claim thatyou're all about garden stuff, but you
know, a lot of ungodly thingshappen, many, many, many ungodly
things happen. But we won't gointo it too much because you know,

(34:40):
we'd be here all night. InOctober twenty eighteen, human remains were found
during the renovation of the Holy Seethe Holy See's Embassy. The police suspected
that it was Emmanuela. However,on February first, two nineteen de tests

(35:00):
showed it was the remains of aRoman man who died between one hundred ninety
to two hundred thirty eight. Jesusand his remains were still there. M
right, but also how wrong werethe police? Yeah? Okay. In

(35:21):
the summer of eighteen, the Orlandifamily's lawyer received an anonymous letter quote if
you want to find emmanuela search wherethe Angel looks end quote, along with
the photo of a statue of anangel in the Teutonic Cemetery in the Vatican.
On July tenth, nineteen, theVatican announced they were they would be

(35:45):
opening two two tombs that were besidethe statue of the angel. The tombs
were supposed to contain the remains ofPrincess Sophie of hohenlu Waldenburg Bernstein. Oh
right, yeah, very good,and they were also supposed to have the
remains of Duchess Charlotte Fredericka of Meckelburgspeering. Oh yeah, shin no it

(36:14):
well, no, no it well. On July nineteen nineteen, the tombs
were opened, and to everyone's disbelief, the remains of the princess and the
duchess were not inside. Oh mygod, However, neither was the remains
of EMMANUELA. Why weren't the twowomen in their graves? So the Vatican
had to open an investigation into themissing remains and found them in an underground

(36:39):
ossary at the Teutonic College Cemetery,along with a dozen other remains. None
of those remains were ever identified tobe Emmanuela. And it's not really to
my knowledge, it's not really clearas to why the remains of the princess

(36:59):
and the duchess we're there. Yeah, that's all kinds of messed up.
Yeah. On January nine, twentythree, Pope Francis ordered the reopening of
Emmanuela's case. An appointed head prosecutorAlessandro did in charge of the investigation.

(37:19):
Pietro gave his first official statement tothe Vatican Police on April eleventh, twenty
twenty three, almost forty years afterEmmanuela disappeared. Pietro believes that the Vatican
know what happened to his sister,and they believe, and he believes that
they are covering it up. Iagree with him ten percent. I would

(37:42):
be inclined to agree with him too. I get that she was abducted in
Rome, she lived in the Vatican. A lot of the a lot of
investigation would have went on in theVatican, So you would imagine that the
Vatican would open some sort of investigationto help the Rome police, but they

(38:06):
waited almost forty years because they werehiding something, literally, And I don't
fully know on what I believe andwhat I don't believe from Sabrina's stories.
I mean, there's so much.There's just too much that it's motage the
waters a lot, unfortunately for thefamily. There was a man who came

(38:36):
forward and I can't remember the man'sname, and I don't know why I
don't have his name wrote down becauseI'm dumb. Sometimes he came forward and
he said that he was responsible forlike he helped kidnapper basically, and in
the Netflix documentary, he does theNetflix documentary with a scarf to hear and

(39:04):
like to his like covering half ofhis face and it's like to hide his
identity, which is a completely nutor fail, because he appeared on Italian
TV talking about the same thing,talking about how he like was somewhat responsible,
and he actually does an interview withEmmanuel's brother. Oh no, don't

(39:34):
like that. And the Netflix documentaryI just think is so smart about it,
and because they let him spew hisstory, spew his details and they
talk about it, you know,like they interview other people about it,
and they like really sell this wholehow it could have been him, And

(39:55):
then they turn around and they hityou with it's basic all bullshit. For
some odd unknown reason, this guyis basically claiming to be somewhat responsible,
and I think he claims to bethe American. Oh, and he's like,

(40:16):
that was me that made all thosephone calls, and you know,
he's like, YadA YadA, YadA. They got him forensic people to do
voice analysis and they don't match thathis voice matches one phone call. Oh
so he made one phone call,but he inserted himself into it at the

(40:42):
beginning. Yes, it's a bitunclear as to why. I think as
far as my knowledge goes back,they're pretty certain that he might have had
something to do with the disappearance ofMarella and like that it's a high strong
possibility. But he had nothing todo with the disappearance of Emmanuela. And

(41:05):
he knows nothing about the disappearance ofEmmanuela. Some people are just fucking weird,
Like, even if he had nothingto do with the disappearance of Morella,
I don't like people just enjoys intoship for no reason whatsoever, and
it like it breaks my heart forthe family because they obviously just want answers.
They just want to know what happenedto their sister. And you have

(41:28):
dumb ass people like him being likeit was me just for fame, just
for five minutes of TV time.Yeah, because they know he's not going
to get arrested because they have nothingactually too no into it no, which
is like so upsetting. Oh,it's ridiculous. So that is the case

(41:52):
of Emmanuela or Landy. I justthink it's so riddled with like what the
fucks. It is very technical.There is a lot like there probably is
a lot more that I could haveadded to it, but it's so it's
one thing when you're watching it,it's easier to follow, but I think
when you're listening to it, it'slike and when you're trying to explain it

(42:13):
to somebody, there's a lot oftechnical well I mean it's like six episodes.
There's something that you're trying to likecondense, condense, and it's a
lot like it's it's all like likethere's bit like stuff on the bank and
stuff, and I don't have thehead for finance. I'm sorry you guys.

(42:34):
I actually tend to leave a lotout about the finance stuff when finance
is involved in my crimes, becausenot my crimes, isn't the crimes I
talk about. I don't commit crimes. I am helping and I don't do
crime. I don't do crime.I talk about crime. But yeah,
when my case is like involve financeor like that kind of I just my

(43:00):
brain just as like what, yeah, And so I'm just like, Okay,
how can I talk about it?But in the most dumbest, simplest
way possible. I literally go tochat gybt for stuff like that, and
I explain this to me like I'mfive years old, literally literally, so

(43:21):
yeah, tell me what your thoughts. Your thoughts are you guys? Do
you think the Vatican had something todo it? I am a major conspiracy
theorist and so like, I'm allhere for the conspiracy theory about like sex
parties, and like, I believeit. I do believe that. No.
I do think they were doing somethingweird to her and they needed to

(43:44):
cover it up. It's also sointeresting to me that like she possibly was
moved to London and she was alivetill nineteen ninety seven, and do you
know and like it's like, ifthat story is true, that makes me
sad for the family because they spentall that time hurting and looking for her

(44:04):
and she was alive. And well, so before we go, I'll quickly
tell you all, guys, thereis a new season to the Murdo Murders.
If you remember I covered them,what two episodes go, three episodes
go? There is three more episodesadded to the one on Netflix, and
it actually dives a lot deeper intothe murders, okay, and it has

(44:30):
like a lot more information, andlike I'd say, it's because he was
convicted, so the information is nowmore available where at the time I was
researching it, and more so,at the time I was researching it,
he wasn't found guilty yet. Yes, yeah he had. He still had
to stand trial, so you knowthe ways they have to wait for the

(44:57):
conviction before they can like be likethis is only information we have, Yeah,
and it is whole wild. Alexmurder lies like four times that his
alibi about like being in his mother'shouse and he is in his mother's eyes
book for like fifteen minutes, twentyminutes, and then he turns to his

(45:23):
like mother's career, like his mother'snurse. And he's like, and if
anybody like she testifies, and she'slike he was like, if anybody asks,
like I was here for forty fortyfive minutes, Oh yeah, that'll
do the trick, because I'm sureyou're such a nice person that people will
lie on a jury, will liein court for you. We'll purge with

(45:44):
themselves for you, Alex. I'msure. And like, God bless the
woman, like she is nervous asshit, like she is like understand,
Like she's like, yeah, no, like that's all said to me,
like kill me. And then inthe like interview, like she's like I
just knew, like I wasn't gonnalie for him. Why the fun would

(46:07):
I like for him? And shewas like and if I lose my job,
I lose my job. Yeah therewere other jobs set there, girly,
yeah, like you know, likeshe was like justice is a bit
more important. So yeah, likeI laughed, but only because he's so
dumb. He's so dumb, likeyou're watching it. And so when police

(46:30):
arrive on scene, he's in likea T shirt with like shorts on,
you know, and he's like andthen you can see on the son's phone
a snapchat from like seven pm,which is like two hours before they were

(46:52):
killed, and he's in a shirtand like he's in shorts, but like
dress shorts, like fancier shorts,like Chino shorts, right, so he's
in a shirt and like Chino shorts. And then yeah, and then when
police arrived, but he mentions nothingoriginally about being like about getting changed or

(47:15):
like, you know, because policeare like tell us your your day,
yeah you know, and you're justlike that, okay, okay, that's
not that's also not great. Heasked someone to lie about where you were,
and now you're okay, cool,cool, and he like he says

(47:37):
that he came home at about helike came home like after the murders,
and he got to the house andhis wife and someone weren't in the house.
So we went up to the dogkennels because that's where they were shot.
And he was like that's where theywere going when I was like leaving
the house or before I left thehouse. So we were when they weren't

(47:59):
in the I as I just assumedthey were still up at the dog kennels,
and that's when he found their bodies. Like this is what he's saying,
and then police it takes police awhile. It takes police like a
good while before they are unable tolock Paul's phone. And then when they
unlock Paul's phone, there's a videothat he was sending to his friend because

(48:22):
he was minding his friend's dog.So he was taking a video of his
friend's dog because there's something the dog'stail or something I don't know. And
in the background, like two minutesor like four minutes before, like Paul
and Maggie were murdered, you canhear Alex murder in the background. Yeah,

(48:44):
he's not a clever man. AndI if y'all hate murderers like I
do, I really advise you towatch the YouTube clip from the trial because
the trial was all aired online,so I'd say it's on YouTube somewhere.
M M. The day that thissound has played, right the day that

(49:07):
they arrive at court, he's walkingin and he's like turning around talking to
his son, like in between youknow, different things, and he saw
like I'm gonna get away with this. Yeah, and then they played the
clip and he sat there and theyplayed the clip and he just goes He's

(49:30):
just like ah, fuck, theygot me. They got me. Oh,
I forgot about that whole technology.Yeah, she's now. The man
is still claiming he's innocent. Butyeah, leave Matt. You mean to
tell me that someone came and murderedto your wife and child two minutes before,

(49:53):
two minutes after you were there,and you heard nothing and saw nothing,
and they didn't try to kill you. Yeah, strange, strange.
It's just such a likable guy.Like I said that, people will lie
for him, they'll perjure themselves,they won't kill him. Yeah, likable
dude. And the series ends ona bit of a cliffhanger where some police,

(50:16):
like some like I think one ortwo investigators state and then like some
media state that there is a highpossibility that he was not alone killer,
that he had help. Oh yeah, because there was two guns, right,
there was two guns. Yeah,two different guns were used. Wouldn't

(50:36):
surprise me. Maybe that's why theSun is still his friend. And they
say it without saying it. Theydon't say that, but they entered it.
And Maggie's friend is interviewed a lotand in the new season, and
they ask her like, what doyou think about Alex having help? And

(51:00):
she just turns around and is like, am I don't want to answer that
question because I'm scared of the answer. Like she's like I don't want to
like oh yeah, Like she's like, yeah, no, I'm not going
to answer that question. Oh mygod. And to me that just speaks
volumes. Yeah, because the sunis still out there now. It said

(51:24):
that like when he was like foundguilty, that like after court, they
you know, went into like aback room or whatever, and the sun
just like broke down and like baldand was like, fuck, like my
brother is dead, my mom's dead, my dad's going to prison. I

(51:49):
mean, if he's innocent, thenyeah, my heart goes out to him.
But if not, I really struggledto find it. He see people,
I think want to think he's innocentbecause they liked, I think to
themselves, like how could he murderhis own child? And how could he
murder his wife that he supposedly lovedso much? And you know, but

(52:09):
you know in people mary their kids. Unfortunately, yeah they do. Yeah,
it's a sick world we live in. It's a sick world we live
in. And I think, tobe honest, that the man would have
done anything to try and protect himself. Yeah, true narcissist. Supposedly,
like a couple of days before themurders, you're Paul was arrested for being

(52:35):
on a boat drunk with friends withbeer on the boat learning nothing? Did
you learn nothing? And so it'sa it's a real case of maybe he
was like, I'm gonna have tokill him because he's just turnishing your image.

(52:55):
And then people are going to sniffout that I am laundering so much.
Yeah, maybe, And then jokewas on him because people found out
he lodged laundered all that money.Anyway. Yeah, true, man will
never man will never get out ofprison though I think he got two life

(53:15):
sentences good and I'm not sure withor without the possibility of parole. But
he has this other trial coming upfor all of that money laundering. Oh
he's no, he's not getting it. So he's he's he's good baths.
Yeah, he isn't there for life. The judge was like, you know,

(53:43):
a bit despicable what was done?Just a bit like the judge is
just like, you're nasty. It'strue. And so that was just a
little mini update for because I watchedthe other the new three episodes and I
just thought i'd give you an updatebecause more information was available than when I

(54:06):
researched it. So nice, nice, I'd like to update my research.
And it's October in a few daisyguys, blessed be So I have my
Happy Halloween sign up because my childwanted to put it up or whatever.

(54:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, let's blamethe child. Guys have kids. It's
great ecanism as an excuse to decorateyour house for Halloween in September, I'd
do it anyway. Okay, Iremember and decorating for Christmas. I think
it was in November that was pandemic. Yes, it was like the first

(54:57):
was it the like second Christmas ofthe pandemic or something? It could have
been. We were all so sickof the ship that I think everyone put
their Christmas tree up in November,and then come Christmas we're all like,
oh my god, take this down. Every time we take a Christmas tree
down, it's like, oh,it feels so empty but so clean.
Literally, I hate taking it downbecause like the sitting rooms are cozy,

(55:24):
it's a whole like am But Ialso like taking it down because then everything's
back to normal and clean and yerich yeah, exactly. And then one
last thing before we end today's episode, I just want to give Mike a

(55:45):
shout out to Mike actually noticed somethingreally cool in our last episode. So
Richard SPEC's stepfather, his name wasCarl August Rudolph Lindbergh, and Mike thought
to himself, well, if thatwas my name, I would just use
my initials. What was his name, Carol August Rudolph Lindbergh. Carol,

(56:15):
and it's his first name. Ijust built it in my head for a
minute. His name is Carol andhis initials are curl. Isn't that fucking
deadly? That's great, it's brilliant, and I don't know how I didn't
notice it, but go, Mike, go you go, Mike. So,
if you have any spooky cases thatinvolved ghosts or demons, or ghosts

(56:42):
and demons, I love a gooddemon. No, I'm not saying that
out loud. Back off. Sexdemon has officially left my fridge. Oh
yeah, I forgot about the sexdemon in your fridge. It's okay,
she's done there. I kind ofwas getting used to her. Yeah,
I know, Well, my fridgesometimes creeks, but that's just because it's

(57:05):
a anti Freeze, anti Freeze.I was gonna say anti Frost the sex
demon, but she's just gotten oldand decrepit looks like me. If you
liked today's episode, and I knowit's a short one, guys, sorry
about that. I promise I havea really good one for next week.
Okay, So if you enjoyed thisepisode, make sure to check out some

(57:30):
of our other stuff if you haven'talready done so, such as last week
when we heard about Richard or Robertas I like to call. And you
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(57:50):
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(58:14):
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(58:34):
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I say it to the anomalous personthat tip that bought us a coffee,
thank you. We know who itis, we know who it is,

(58:57):
but I don't know if they wanttheir name shout it out. So I'm
gonna say it just she might Janet, Janet. We love you, Janet,
We appreciate you, Janet, andthank you for being our number one
fan. You're You're like the soccermom of our podcast. She actually is.
She's in the best in the bestway possible. That's meant as a

(59:21):
compliment. So we will see youon the flip side, you guys,
catch you on the flip Flip swanchop