Fred Gets Fitted for New Clubs

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Golf Smarter number four hundred five, published on October eighth,
twenty thirteen.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
So now we're going to change a conversation. A lot
of people don't know what a four wood is anymore.
You have three woods, and everybody has a three wood
in their bag or thinks they should. Most people do anyway,
and a lot of people have three and five wood's.
The four wood's kind of a forgotten item. Certain manufacturers
carry them, some don't, tailor made kind of hides theirs.
It's a high launched three wood, but it's a seventeen degree.

(00:49):
It's really a four wood on steroids. But I like
to change the conversation with my clients and say, what
you really need is a fairway driver. Forget the numbers, okay,
because a number just don't always stack up. Sometimes it's
a three, it might be a four, might be a
high launch three might be a two, might be a
five wood, might be a seven wood. And you're talking
about beginners versus more experienced players. Many beginners probably shouldn't

(01:12):
hit anything less than a seven wood starting out, wow,
because that extra launch angle and loft it creates the
launch angle gives them a lot more forgiveness.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Come on and join me as I get fitted for
new clubs with club fitter Nick Manzano. This is golf smarter.
You can walk into a department store and buy a
coat off the rack and it may fit you well
because you kind of know your size. But if you
were to walk in that department store and get an
expert to help you, to measure you, to make it

(01:47):
fit for you, to custom fit it for you, but
it's still a department store, you're going to feel a
lot better about it. You're going to be more confident,
and people are going to comment on it. That's kind
of the way it works with golf. You can walk
into any store and look at all the clubs they have,
know what your friend has and purchase one, or you
can have an expert at that store help you out.

(02:10):
And that's what I'm gonna do today. I'm here at
the golf Mart in Santrafel, California, and I'm with the
one of the half dozen club fitters they have here
at the golf mart, and this is Nick Manzano. And Nick,
why is it important for us to be fitted for
golf clubs?

Speaker 3 (02:29):
It's you know, it's not important for everybody. For people
who want to better their games and to make it
more enjoyable and have more fun out there. You know,
sometimes it's the archer and sometimes it's the earrow, and
tailoring a golf club to somebody's swinging abilities is very.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Important if you want to progress with the game. And
what is the process of getting fitted.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Would start out with an interview and some kind of
discussion and background is to what the person's experiences and
what their attitudes are towards certain brands or certain clubs,
and how fast of a learning curve they're on. They're
just playing and practicing, and you know, once a month

(03:15):
or something, you know you might fit them differently if
they're on an aggressive learning curve. You know, just like
a pair of shoes, you'd want to kind of fit
ahead of where they are so they don't have to
buy a new set of golf clubs every six months.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
I get emails from listeners all the time saying, I'm
just starting to play golf and I know it's important
to be fitted, but I want to get my swing
going first. Are they right to wait to be fitted
and do it on their second set of clubs or
from their first set of clubs? Out? Is being fitted
going to make a difference, going to enhance their confidence

(03:46):
in their game.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
That's where you know, ideally you would have if they're
starting out and they're taking lessons from a golf professional,
then ideally that professional would give them that guidance and
you know, give them an idea at what point they
can take that off the shelf seven iron and progress.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Onto something else, maybe at.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
The practice range. And that's where you know, ideally, you know,
a good club fitter would be willing to work with
a professional and you know, coordinate that fitting. But as
long as they can repeatedly hit a shot, you know,
seventy eighty percent of the time, then you can begin

(04:26):
to start fitting. The difficulty with instruction is when the
swing changes. Most people start out pretty stiff when they swing.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
They don't have a lot of athletic background.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Saying softball or tennis, and when you get into lessons,
their whole posture changes, and then the fit of the
golf club changes.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
So does it make sense as somebody progresses over the
years to be fitted multiple times each time they're ready
to change their clubs.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
And not necessarily over the years, but over progression of skills.
You know, as they get better, better than the fit
would likely change. And instead of a cavity back iron
that's going to default straight and make have a low
center gravity, be easy to hit, you know, they might

(05:15):
progress into a little bit smaller club they can work
and you know, fade or hook around a tree if necessary,
or out of the trees and get back into play
and challenge them a bit more, so that that fit
would change as well as the the tightness of the fit.
You know, if you're fitting a beginner, the fit can
be a bit quicker, easier, looser because things are going

(05:36):
to change. It's more of a general fit. When you
fit somebody with a lot more experience and abilities at
that level, then you know it's a very fine, careful
fit because now you have a really good archer. To
go back to that analogy, and so that arrow has
to be absolutely true. The bow and the sites have
to be dialed in and you know just perfectly, and

(06:00):
you know it's all about a team effort, the player,
the fitter, the golf professional, the trainer. It takes a
lot to be very good at golf.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Well, it's been about five or six years since I've
purchased any clubs, and I wanted to upgrade on my driver, hybrids,
my fairway woods, so I thought I would get fitted
to do that. Instead of just seeing what other people
are playing, I want to know where my game has
changed and if I'm either playing the right clubs or

(06:32):
I do need new ones. So that's why I'm here
today and we're going to go through a fitting process
with Nick.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Right now, what's your index? So what do you usually shoot?

Speaker 1 (06:39):
I'm My average score right now, according to my index
is eighty eight point nine, so you're just about fourteen
and a half.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Dead on average golf slightly. I am an average golfer
for slightly better than average.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Probably very slight if i'm yeah, because I am under
ninety and.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
You probably it's probably an honest index, not one of
those ego and no, this is based on my sandbagger
and yeah, this is definitely based on my gin. So
let's start out loosening up a little bit and we'll
start with a six iron, Okay, just to lay down
a benchmark. We did talk earlier and you mentioned that

(07:17):
your four iron and five iron somewhere between there you
you know, have a little bit more difficulty repeating your sots.
So let's just see what the benchmark is with our
six and how that appears to fit, and then we'll
see what our longest playable iron is.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Now, what does this machine you're having me stand in
front of right here which no one can see, but.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Well, this is a high speed camera system based launch
monitor and software package that's accurate to within about a
half a mile an hour in your swing, about a
quarter degree on angles, and at the end of the day,
with uh your clubs, it's going to be within about

(08:03):
two or three yards.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
We go.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
It's all working, good, good, A couple more, just just
a couple.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
There so many, so many little things that need to
remember about every part of my swing. It's like from
back up in the top in the center meeting the
hips and then got to get rid of that when
I'm playing. But it's always it's in.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
My sleep and set up the swing. You just got
to kind of feeling.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, all right's take another one. See what happens.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, it's looking pretty good. Let's just get one more.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
So what are we looking at back here on the monitor?

Speaker 3 (08:57):
We're just watching the ballfly right?

Speaker 1 (08:59):
So base what the launch monitor is? Picking up the software? Yes,
picking up the ball flight and give a target. Man,
I'm looking at a big white screen. Am I supposed
to be aiming for something? Or just sure to hit
the ball. Why didn't you step away and just on
this last shot? Since we need one more anyway, just
sort of imagine the target, use the lines of the
mat to coordinate that, and pick the target and visualize

(09:21):
it and swing away. When we're making a golf swing
in the course, we're looking at the ball anyway, we're
not really looking at a target. It's actually an imaginary target. Well,
I love get behind the ball and I'm going to
pick a target.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
So take down, aim at that pin out there?

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Got away all right, And that's one of the mist hits.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
So much for targeting.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, right, exactly, good idea, friend, That is that the
spot right there?

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Okay, Now that was really important. Here is just to
take a deep breath and reboot. Oh absolutely, so I
absolutely staked as many in here as anybody.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
And well I don't what I don't do is just
drop a ball and hit it. I'll definitely go through
the whole preshot routine again in my normal game. But
that was that was on tape.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
So that's I'm going to go over and delete that
because that would, thank you, I appreciate that would throw
off our numbers.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Tell me when.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Fire and ready, Well that was worth it. That was
the best shot yet. Oh you know, sometimes you gotta
sometimes you gotta hit bottom before you fly back up.
So they're coming over to the monitor.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
For a second, coach, Okay.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
So on the monitor here we have all the numbers
of rate out here. We have a club head speed
very consistent on average, seventy three miles an hour.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
And that's great.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
So in regards to fitting, which you were talking about,
when somebody has a really consistent swing speed and they
repeat pretty good, it's now possible to do a very
nice fitting.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
A swing speed seventy three and they're talking about some
of the pros are up in the one hundred and twenties
and thirties.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
That's drivers okay, good, So that does change from club
to club.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Your your club hit speed.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
Six irons are much shorter and they don't swing as fast.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, okay, good, good, no, thank you.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
So seventy three mile hour club speed translate to about
one hundred and seven mile an hour ball speed. You
have a launch angle of eighteen point three. Your average
shot was one point five degrees offline to the right
in inner twenty six RPMs a side spin, so it
was fading off to the right in addition to starting
off to the right. Yep, and the back spins fifty

(11:39):
four hundred, and we'll skip the total spin to centangle
forty four degrees. That's really good, forty four forty five.
Somewhere around there is a really good tocentangle to come
in and stop on a green and hold really nicely.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Now, we took the six h iron out because you asked
me what's my one hundred and fifty yard club?

Speaker 3 (11:58):
I did, Yep.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
You said which club do you hit one hundred and
fifty yards before? And I said.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
That was a different conversation.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
The reason why I take the six iron out is
just because we have optimization charts. It's smarter people than
I have put together over the years, and they know
for any given ball speed, and that's why that column
is important. It's good to have a certain launch angle,
and it's good to have a certain amount of backspin
to be able to have a good playable trajectory so
the ball takes off, doesn't balloon up too much in

(12:30):
the wind. You maximize the distance at the same time,
you have enough spin on the ball and it drops
out and stops on the green right about where you
want it without kicking and releasing too far, without backing
off the green. And that's what we're looking for with
an iron. So what you have with yours, will we
go over to optimization chart. At one hundred and seven

(12:51):
miles an hour, you are pretty much in the middle
of regular flex, a little bit up towards the border
between regular and stiff, a pretty average tempo, and pretty smooth,
so there's no reason to I think too far outside that.
In regular flex they recommend forty four hundred to fifty

(13:11):
three RPMs is a good range of spin to me.
In you're just over that at fifty four hundred, so
you're getting a little bit of extra spin on there.
Launch angle seventeen to twenty three. And see that's how
this works. As you're launching at eighteen three, so you're
launching on the low side of perfect and then you're

(13:33):
spinning just a little bit much. But you also had
we just did three shots. You had one shot that
you came down on a bit differently and trapped, and
you got sixty four hundred RPMs to spin and that
probably threw the numbers off. So if you hit a
couple more, my guess is it would average out and down,
you'd be just underneath the fifty three, probably fifty one

(13:55):
fifty two, and you'd be launching around eighteen nineteen. And
that's not a bad place to be at all. So
your clubs are pretty well fit for you.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Oh that's good. Who finish it for them? Dan Sex?

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Well, so you use one of the best.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
I'm hitting off of a mat. How different would these
numbers be if we're hitting off of grass?

Speaker 3 (14:23):
It would be probably a lot harder to get them.
The mats very forgiving.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Right, Practicing off of a mat seems very different than
hitting off of grass. When you're practicing too.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, the difficulty in studio, and that goes back to
One of the reasons why we have our ninety day
warranty is when you can't see your target when you're
hitting off a turf and you're in a real, you know,
encore situation, people might hit the ball completely differently than
they do here just because of where they're at mentally,

(14:55):
how they feel in studio compared to out in the course,
their home course compared to an unfamiliar place the ter
for Matt conditions, it's all very different. But that's we
do the best job we can here with the facilities,
and if it doesn't work, you go out in the
course and play with it, bring it back within ninety days.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
We'll take the feedback.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
In that point in interview, you know what's working, what's
not working, and then we can adjust and refit if
necessary based upon you know the actual results, and make
a small adjustment. And then we're there.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
So a little bit off center here, but so I
know that I have a fade, and I play my fade.
I've never hit a drug. I don't even understand it.
But when somebody goes out for ninety days and they
have a fade but they don't like it, what if
they come back and go I'm just every shot I
keep fading the ball. It's like, well, good, then you're consistent,

(15:51):
aren't you. I mean, isn't that consistency?

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well, I mean, who's the best player in the world, well,
number one ranked?

Speaker 1 (15:59):
I guess that would be Tiger Well of all time, of.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
All time, big question, Tiger Nicholas. Time will tell yeah, exactly?
Who is one of the best iron strikers of all time?

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Hogan? Hogan of more recent times. I'm bad at these quizzes.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Probably Miller. Okay, well, at least he thinks.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
So yeah, right, I'll tell you that. He'll be the
first time to tell you.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
But no, a lot of people would agree. But the
Nicholas played a fade, and Miller could play a fade
and really respect and talks a lot about Nicholas's fade.
So you know, it all depends on what the expectations
of the customer are.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
At the end, he explained to me, what you're doing now.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
So what we're doing is we are setting up a
lieboard and we're seeing if the fade is entirely your
problem or if it is a small adjustment on the iron.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Because your little plexiglass board with a couple of lines
right down the middle. So then you put some what
you put a tape on the bottom of my clothes.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
It's called Impact eight, okay, and we put it on
as centered as possible. Take a swipe with that. Let's
see what the reading is and let's see if that
fade is all yours or if your swing has changed
slightly since you're fitting five years ago with Dan.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
So in fact, you see the darkest one right there,
it's almost dead on center. Then it kind of slid
off the board, is what happened there. So let's do
one more just to verify that. Sure, you felt pretty
good about that swing though, yeah, okay, again it's probably
right on. We won't see much different here, but we'll
take one more for the.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Books like that one more?

Speaker 3 (17:56):
That was nice, Yeah, and you can see where they were.
So you're actually marking probably half a degree to the heel,
So that means your heel is down just a little
bit dynamically through impact when you swing the club bows sure,

(18:17):
and your body shifts and for you this is actually
slightly toe up.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
And that's something that I've recently been working on because
I've been trying to and I don't know if you
know some position, but trying to get the club more
upright and flat on the ground because I always had
a tendency to have the toe up, so it was
a new thing for me to try to get it.
But I'm clearly when I come back through impact, I'm
not there.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, And that's a subtle fitting thing. So going back
to what you were saying about fitting and the importance
of fitting, that's one of the things you shouldn't have
to unnaturally try to get the club to swing flat.
The club should intuitively swing flat, and for two reasons.
One is the center gravity. When you rock the soul
of the club up, the center gravity, it's designed into

(19:07):
that golf club for its particular use and it's appropriate
fit for you. When you rock it up in the heel,
the center gravity climbs. Now the club becomes harder to hit. Secondly,
you can't see this visually, but you know when you
have an uphill lie, yep, what do you aim right
at the pin?

Speaker 1 (19:25):
No uphill lie is gonna go to your left, So
you come around right. Okay, do you know why because
your your swing is shorter? Because no, because that was
a trick question. No, I don't.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
Most people don't. Most people don't know that answer. When
the club's flat in the ground and going back that
center gravity thing. If the toes down, if the toes
up in the air and the heels down, the center
gravity rises up and the club becomes less efficient. At
the same time, if we square this to that line
on the board that's pointing pretty much ninety degrees straight

(20:01):
down the middle, right, correct, Now, I got my leading
edge square to that line the same way. Where are
we pointing?

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Uh, you're pointing way left. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
The compound angle of the face of the loft and
the lie angle. When that club is up in the air,
you line up your leading edge, you're visually distracted the
face is actually pointing left.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Okay, So that that explains when you have an uphill
lie why it's.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
So so your club was marking on the heel. We
can flatten that out a little bit and make that
fits you more perfectly and make it more efficient. It'll
drop the center of gravity, but what you need to
be aware of is it will possibly leak a little
bit more to the right.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Oh god, that's because as we dropping a little bit,
this is the center and I'm hitting towards the heel.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
But you can play that fade. And that's where you
go back and forth between fitting and instruction. Now you
go back and you work on that release in or
the ball position, and then you work with your swing
coach and you try to get that worked out so
it's more neutral and you have the ability to fade
or draw and demand and take it to know the level.
But for the club heads efficiency, you're better off. You

(21:19):
would be better off if that was just a hair
flatter and the club would be much more efficient on
a thin hit, for instance, the CFG would be much
much closer to the ball strike on a mishit if
that was set up properly. Interesting, that's just a quick overview.
Your clubs look very well fit for you. They probably
your swing has changed slightly, just off and care. Yeah,

(21:41):
and there's nothing wrong with the fade. But you hit
three really consistent shots here with your six. Let's go
try your five right now, and let's see where that
cutoff is before we go into the hybrids and the
fairly ones.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
See now, I mentioned you that I'm getting frustrated with
my five because again I'm trying to lay the club
flat on the ground. Because the way I always did
it before, I was down on the heel and the
toe was up. So I'm trying to position myself on
my address with my hands a little bit higher.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Hold on just one second, friend, I'm gonna put a
different screen out here. Okay, Yeah, I've got so many
thoughts in your mind right now.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
No, my mind is generally the same all the time. Empty. Wow,
that was nice.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
No fade there.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
I was riding up the line.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Huh, missed the line by a couple of feet.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Oh, life sucks. What can I tell you. I'll try
it again, see if it was an anomaly.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Another pretty good one a little farther.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Huh.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Those are three pretty good swings.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Last when you miss hit just a little bit. Yeah,
that's not bad at all. And do you carry four
iron or not?

Speaker 1 (23:18):
I do not. I do the hybrid when I get
past the five.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Five five is the last one. Yeah, let's just try
one more. Okay, Yeah, you're getting that five pretty good today.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah, I'm gonna go out and play later, coming.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Over to the computer for just sure it. So what
you have if we go back to your six iron
for starters and you surely we'll take that off. Thanks
miss hit there, So you got an extra three miles
an hour longer clubs translates to an extra four and
a half miles an hour of ball speed. But we're

(23:57):
gonna look here is the difference is in. And look,
by the way, with that one extra shot with your
six iron, as I guessed, your backspin came down below.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Fifty three hundred.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
So that's looking pretty good as far as how that's
set up with the lofts and lies and the shaft pndpoint.
So on your four iron you had a variance five
I'm sorry, your six iron. On your six iron, you
had a variance in yardage of one hundred and fifty
to one hundred and fifty nine yards round it, so

(24:29):
she had nine yards front to back on you. That's
carry on Kerry distance. On your five iron, you had
a variance of one fifty to sixty six. She had
a sixteen yard difference.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
So it just shows you that when you go from
you know, that higher lofted, slightly shorter club to the
next club in the line, just in those four shots
versus those four shots, you're just a little bit less consistent.
And so that's where we determine where the cutoff is
for the irons in your bag. Interesting on the offline,

(25:04):
on your six iron, you were twenty two yards right
to four yards right, so you had an eighteen yard
spread if we go to your.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Average of just under fifteen offline. Fifteen yards offline.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, but the spread is what we're looking at right now,
So it's an eighteen yard spread or variance. And on
your five iron you go from minus one yard to
plus sixteen.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
It's seventeen.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
So with those four shots, In those four shots, your
five iron is almost as consistent as your six iron.
It's a hair more consistent online and just the hair
less consistent on the distance. So you know, it appears
your five iron is almost as consistent as your six.
I think keeping that in your bag is probably a
good idea. So that's what our benchmark is. We'll go

(25:55):
ahead and erase the six iron stuff, so we know
you're distance cutoff is and this looks like a little
bit of a mishit, so I'll take that one out.
You have one hundred and sixty four yards. It's going
to be your average carry distance on a good fire.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
So good to know because I always think, oh I'm
one hundred and sixty five yards out five.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
Iron so that matches the reality.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
So the reality is I do know the distance of
my clubs, so our monitor actually works, is what you're saying,
or I do something works, but it's important. It's good
to know your distances in.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
A fitting in the whole process that the customer buys
into the technology we're using. People ask all the time
about what's the latest technology. And some of the best
technology we have here at the Golf Mart is a
launch monitor and using it properly, and it also helps
with a customer. If they know they're five irons one

(26:50):
hundred and sixty five yards and this launch monitor says
it's flying one hundred and sixty four and a half yards,
well then they're confident. Yeah, and you know they can
relax and they can trust that. You know, this thing's
not hocus pocus and it's really working, and that's really important.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Sounds like I'm saving some money on my irons, So
the flex is correct.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Probably right, Yeah, you're dead on the middle of regular
flex and Dan did a nice job for you. The
Dynamite Gold and the Dynamical super lights for most recreational
golfers are great shafts because they save a bit of weight,
so aniguewise.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
At the end of the round, he also moved me
to the metal shaft versus the graphite. I had graphite
before this, and he said, you know, a regular, regular
stiff on the on the metal flex was a better
better for me than the graphite.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yeah, as you progress and get to be a little
bit better golfer, the torsional properties of the shaft. Steel
shafts only twist two degrees. Graphite shafts twists three to
four degrees, and so you can be much more accurate
with a steel shaft over a graphite shaft. But that's changing.
Some of the steel fiber shafts by Aerotech, for instance,
they're being used on tour, are just about as accurate

(28:06):
as the steel shafts.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Now, wow, Well it's your comment about as you progress
and improve in your game. But here I am in
the age where we're both getting a lot older, right
and quickly, So you had to go there. Huh yeah,
most likely not it's stayed the same or not. I mean,

(28:31):
I'll probably be losing distance over time, and just because
of aging process, catching.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Up technology and fitting can still help you with that,
and you know, I fit, and some of it's conditioning
to I can't tell you how many sixty seven year
old guys I fit. They're still knocking drives or I've
helped fit for a long driver and they're knocking them
two fifty two sixty, two seventy two eighty all right, Well,
even one guy here butch I think is his name,

(29:00):
to the titleist driver and you can knock at three
hundred yards.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Still, Okay, he's a big guy though. Okay, three fifty though, right,
So here's our benchmark.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
One hundred and sixty four hundred and sixty five yards.
That's or five iron. So what we're going to do
right now is we're going to go ahead and shut
this down. Go over here, and we're going to go
to customer fairway and I'm going to have you hit
a couple with your fairway wood and let's see how it.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Appears to work for you.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
So we got our starting point with a five iron,
we'll jump to your three wood, four wood.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Well, this is the now, this was one of the
clubs that was made for me by Jesse Ortiz.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Personally understand yes he did.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
He said, go get fitted for clubs. This is when
I had to replace my last set because airlines. And
he said, I'm going to give you this seventy teen
degree and it's more like a four wood, but you
can tell people it's a three wood. And I love
hitting this thing off the tee.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
Well, you know, most people don't even know what a
fourwood is. And I think Jesse or Tz did you
a great service that way. And my experience here, more
people than not fit into a seventeen degree four wood
or high launched three wood better than into a fifteen degree. Wow,
And so I think you did a great job. And

(30:23):
maybe a tough time to fit you out of that,
but we'll give it a whirl.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Okay. And shaft wise, it's.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Shaft wise, it's a pretty standard shaft. You can do
some amazing things with shaft but that depends on budget.
A year over year, shaft manufacturing tolerances have gotten better
and better. So the shafts made today are so much
more consistent than shafts made two, three, four years ago.
How old is your club? Four or five years? Four

(30:53):
or five years?

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, So I think.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Most of the newer shafts are probably going to give
us a little bit better spin rates and that'll help
out with the distance. But I'll share how that works
in a minute. Swing away. Okay, the long fairway club,
the three or four wood, is probably the hardest hit,
hardest club to hit in the whole back off the.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Tea, even a really really really low tea. And that's
what I do with this club. I don't tee it
up very high at all. It's very different than when
I'm hitting off the deck. I seem to have missed
every one of those.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
It's better just try one other thought. You were asking
earlier about the mats versus hitting off turf, and the
mats are a petroleum product. The plastic grass is incredibly slippery.
The foam underneath is pretty forgiving. Now, why don't you
sort of psych yourself out and say, hey, it's okay

(31:54):
to hit you know, half inch behind the ball. See
what happens?

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Okay, Yeah, I feel like I'm hitting a way that's
your best yet.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
No, Yeah, yeah, so we're onto something there. Tried a
couple more. I'll delete to earlier ones, but that's uh,
that's a pretty good start right there.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah. It's been a lot alone where it feels like
don't know why, and that one ballooned.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
That's actually looking good because we can take the two
of those and average them together. Okay, it was slightly thin,
one was slightly thick. What would be ideals if you
just flush one right now? Okay, let's see what we
can do. Relax, no thoughts, just swing more or less.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Did that?

Speaker 3 (32:50):
There we go? That's all we need for numbers. Really, yep,
I still don't feel like I hit one that I liked. Well,
Like you said, every day is different. Yeah, if somebody's
having a hard time struggling and they are not making
great contact with a given club that we're trying to
do a fitting, you got to work with what you have.
So what we did is we took your first shot,

(33:11):
which is a little bit in the thin side, We
got one a little bit in the fat side, and
then your last one was picked pretty clean, and we
take those numbers and average them together. So your speed
went from seventy seven to eighty five, the ball speed
increased to one hundred and twenty three and a half
miles an hour, and your launch angle dropped to twelve
point three. It's a good thing you have a four wood.

(33:32):
So now we're going to change the conversation. A lot
of people don't know what a four wood is anymore.
You have three woods, and everybody has a three wood
in their bag or thinks they should. Most people do anyway,
and a lot of people have three and five woods.
The four wood's kind of a forgotten item. Certain manufacturers
carry them, some don't, tailor made kind of hides theirs.

(33:53):
It's a high launched three wood, but it's a seventeen degree.
It's really a four wood on steroids. But I like
to change the conversation with my clients and say, what
you really need is a fairway driver. Forget the numbers,
because the numbers don't always stack up. Sometimes it's a three,
it might be a four, might be a high launch three,

(34:14):
might be a two, might be a five wood, might
be a seven wood. And you're talking about beginners versus
more experienced players. Many beginners probably shouldn't hit anything less
than a seven wood starting out because that extra launch
angle and loft it creates. The launch angle gives them
a lot more forgiveness and overcomes a lot of swing flaws,

(34:38):
gives them backspin a high launch. If they miss it thin,
they still get most of the launch off. If they
hit it off to the right, it's got so much backspin,
it's hard for the side spin to become dominant. A
higher lofted club is going to be your friend. So
that's probably why Jesse r T's puts you in the
seventeen degree over the fifteen is for your swing back

(34:59):
then that is better today, arguably because of the twelve three.
And we're switching now, we're going to go over to
our driver optimization chart. We're looking for a faaraway driver.
Something on the average turf conditions that you experience you
can pick off the fairway and as long as possible
when you need to on a long part four par

(35:20):
five recovering after you know, punching out of the trees
or something and trying to get home in one so
we can use the driver optimization chart for our fairway wood. Oh,
it's really that easy, because what we're looking for with
the driver optimization chart is to maximize our distance. That's
what we're trying to do here. It's the turf conditions

(35:40):
are different than a t is the only difference. So
we go over here. One hundred and twenty four miles
an hour still keeps us in the regular flex chart bracket.
We go over here and we want to launch a
thirteen to sixteen and we want to spend somewhere between
forty four hundred and thirty one hundred RPMs. Now, because

(36:01):
this is a fairway wood, we want to use the
numbers on the higher side because most people aren't going
to chunk a fairway wood. You might do that to
an iron or wedge, but usually you're going to pick
your fairway wood's pretty clean and your mishit's going to
be a thin hite to ye. So we want to
air on the side of slightly higher. So we're really
looking for sixteen degrees and maybe as close to twenty

(36:23):
four hundred as possible. Or for play a course where
you have to hit over a lot of hazards, we
might want to go for a bit more spin to
be able to come down in a more playable trajectory
and stop on a green, But that depends upon taste
and what you want. But in general, sixteen degrees is
a great launch angle. So you've got twelve three on average,
and that's after deleting a couple. That's your three best

(36:45):
out of six. Inner spin is high forty three hundred
Remember I said, shaft technology has gotten better. A modern
shaft can probably lower that spin rate. Jesse Ortz puts
in a really soft tipped, easy to hit shaft for
most people.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
And a line wasn't thrilled with the chefs that Jesse
put on these.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
I'm not going to go that far for you. It
may be a little bit too soft, So I would
agree with Dan that way. But you know, Jesse Eertiez
is designing for a certain target market that he's selling
these two, and it works great for a lot of people,
especially it's slightly softer swing speeds.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Is it relevant that Jesse never saw me swinging club
He just saw the numbers that I delivered from of
pretty much the clubhead speed, the launch angle, and the spin.
I think that's all I sent him.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
He was doing a rough fit based upon fitting feedback
from whoever you said, somebody fits you, and then he
did this, Dan fits you, and he took Dan's information
and puts you into this. Yeah. You know the only
thing I might have done differently is I might have
put you in the stiff lex because the stiff lex
would have firmed up and because the shaft to so

(38:00):
much twist and because you have steel. When you go
from steel to graphite, and if you're going to a
softer graphite with a bit more twist in it, there
is no standard for flex. So I might have actually
put you in a stiff flex and that would have
brought those spin numbers down a little bit and given
you a little bit more distance perhaps, So do you

(38:21):
want to have this swing something else? Yeah? So that's
what we have here. So our distance on your best
shot was one hundred and ninety three and our average
is about one eighty five. What do you see? What
do you expect with this out in the course.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Off the deck? Two ten? But I know that on
the off the tee I can go two twenty okay,
And so.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
A perfect hit off of this, that's what you would expect,
and you pull it out if you had two hundred
and twenty, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Or more to go, and that's what you would go with.
You use this if it's more than two twenty, Do use.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
This off the deck a lot? Or do you go
to your three hybrid?

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Both? I do. I use both, and I do like
the three hybrid off the deck for a two hundred
yard shot. One hundred yard.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Shot Okay, So now it is I guess playtime. So
let's see if we can do a little bit better
than one hundred and eighty five to twenty. Okay, let's
see if I get one really nice shot off the tee,
see what that distance can be. Okay, there you go. Yeah,

(39:39):
what a difference to teammates. I told you we Wow.
I feel like you hit that pretty good.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah. I mean lately I will first three or four holes,
I won't even pull out the driver, and I'll hit
this and feel much more confident, much more comfortable. And
then if I'm hitting this well, then on a part
five pull out my driver. But yeah, this this gets
my game started.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
So what I did over here at the launch monitors,
I eliminated your first thin hit, So you had one
slightly thin hit, one flushed one, one slightly thick one.
Now we've got better numbers. Now our best shots two
hundred on a fly probably two ten was rollout, maybe
as much as two twenty. So now we're in the
ballpark of what I think your experience out in the course,
and the our average is around So let's see you

(40:31):
have any brand you want to try.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
First, Tailor Made seems to be awfully popular. Okay, I
don't bet I have. I like Taylor made a like callaway,
but I've never played ping, and everyone talks about ping.
Nike is definitely in the game to play right now, And.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
So just while getting familiar, we do the same thing.
But I'll have you hit one off the tea first,
and then we'll hit a couple off the turf.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Okay, And and what am I holding right now?

Speaker 3 (40:56):
We are holding a rocket ball's stage high launch three wood,
which is seventeen degrees just like yours, except the club
heads a bit lighter, the shaft's a bit longer, the
shaft's a bit sturdier, and uh, you've got their wonderful

(41:17):
speed pocket on the bottom, so you get spring off,
the springs off the whole bottom of the face and
your thin hits. You get just as much pop off
the face as you do in a dead center shot.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Oh that's always good to know, should I? Boy, did
that sound like an explosion? Oh and hmm, look at.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
The ballmark is just a hair low, just a hair
Even though you caught it a bit thin, it sounded
like you caught it dead center. That's the way the
that's way that speed pocket. Interesting, the whole bottom of
the face is it almost bring.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
The speed pocket that he's talking about.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
Right here.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
You can see there's that slot right here that you
can go inside.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
That's a little bit of a fade. Let's see, let's
try one more. There you go, it's right down the pipe.
We so, whoa, that's what Rocketball Stage two is all about. Wow,
So you just carried both of those. The first one

(42:36):
was a slight mishit, yeah, slight, and the second one
you put a nicer turn on it so that your mishit.
It flew a one yard further statistically, the same yardage
as as yours, and then the last one flew another
nine yards, ten yards beyond yours. Spin rates actually aren't

(42:59):
much better. I'm not sure exactly why that is, but
your launch angle, look at that, it's much lower.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
So but that's off the tea. Let's see what happens
off the turf. So we'll leave that good one in there.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
So this would be because now I'm hitting this one
off the deck. This is the tailor made right the RBZ.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Here we go, looking pretty good.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, that looks really neat. Well, this is a fun
video game.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Every Man cave should have one, even if you're not
a golfer.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
That feel better. Yeah, I'd say so.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
So you're talking about hitting your three wood off the
tee starting out the round. For hitting off the tee,
I'm not sure if there's a better fairway wood in
the store. And going back to what you're saying about beginners,
a lot of beginners starting out would probably it'd be
a lot easier game to learn if they had a
high launched three wood like this to hit off the

(44:30):
te instead of a driver starting out, because the shaft
is shorter, easier to control than a driver, and you
get all that pop all over the face and it
works good so compared to yours. And you're hitting a
brand new club here, so your fairway's tried and true,
familiar club. We just went from eighty five miles an

(44:52):
hour to ninety two miles an hour swing speed wise,
ball speed, we picked up nine miles an hour on
the averages best against the best. We have ninety three
and four against ninety and eighty eight.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Wow, And.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
Those are off the turf. Our launch angles on the
low side, Our spins a little bit in the high side,
but it's the club had speed the balance of this club,
the extra length of the club, the pop off the face.
It's just blowing away your fairway right now, even though
the numbers aren't perfect, and the way it got there,

(45:29):
because it's launching a little bit low, spins a little
bit high. Just the first one we tried right here.
On average, instead of one hundred and ninety two yards,
you have two hundred and five yards. You just picked
up thirteen yards on average.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
And uh best against the best. We have two twenty
one against one ninety nine. You picked up twenty two
yards best against best. Carry carry distance. Yeah, now I
use a carry distance. I don't use the total distance
because there's an imaginary fairway. The computer program has an

(46:02):
algorithm and it calculates the rollout. We have pretty plush
turf conditions around here, and I'm guessing in the courses
you play here, you're not going to get quite as
much rollout as you know this computer. If you're at
a different location, then you probably won't get that much
roll out, but it's going to be close. You would
get up to two hundred and twenty four yards a role.

(46:23):
Some of the courses around here that I know you play,
maybe two fifteen two twenty on average, and that's your
best shot was off the turf, not off the t.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Interesting, very interesting. And the offline on that club versus
my club, it's like there's a offline.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
It's a little bit a little bit, a little bit
more to the right. So if you'll notice here you
have the area of shaft, that's probably because the shafts
a little bit longer. Yeah, and just the head design
you have a slight more right bias. So this club

(46:59):
you probably would have to play with a little bit
more of a fade, and you would put up with
just a little bit more inconsistency. But if you have
to go along, you've got a nice lie, you're swinging
good and you want to pick it off the turf
or if you want to hit it off the t
starting out your round on.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
It is a three wood or is this a forewood?
Is this equal to the being the forewood?

Speaker 3 (47:18):
It's a high launch threewood high launch. The tailer made's
vernacular okay, which means what means it's a forewood? Okay,
Just like I said, we're looking for a fairway driver
for forget the numbers. It's a great example of so
this is a keeper. I think we'll put this one aside.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
And is that the club that you'd say, you know what,
but before you walk out the store with that club,
I think you need a different shaft on it. Or
would we walk out with that?

Speaker 3 (47:44):
Yeah? Absolutely, So the option on that, because the spin
rates are as high as they are.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
That is a low launch, a high launch, low.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Spin shaft that they have on that, but it's creating
a bit more spin than I think is ideal. It
works for you because you're launching on the low side,
so this it starts out low, but the spin takes
it up in the air. The dangers under windy conditions,
it might be a little bit harder to control because
that high spin rate, if you're going into the wind,
would balloon way up in the air and you'd lose

(48:13):
a ton of distance. So if we can bring that
down a bit, it would.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Probably don't take that to bend in dunes.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
Maybe not yeah, un those three days a year when
it's perfect out there.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
So but an alternative would be or else would you send.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
Me, Well, you'd mentioned you wanted to try the Nike Yeah,
so here's a Nike covert. Now, the Nike covert. They
don't have a four wood in the standard one in
the in the tour model, they do have an adjustable
three wood in five woods we can make into four woods.

(48:50):
But so what we have here is just a fifteen
degree but it's got a really hot face, doesn't have
the speed slot on it. But here we have a
cavity back design and real good heel toe waiting, the
weights forward in the face and low. So in theory
this will probably have a little bit less.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
BA all right, well, and you get to see this too.
So this is the The Nike covert feels very different
off the face until it felt heavier when it made

(49:36):
impact versus I don't know how I'm describing as heavy
but thicker than I mean. I guess the cavity on,
the speed slot on the and the other one makes
a difference. I don't know, it felt it definitely felt different.
But let me swing some more.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
I mean, it's a part of club head design these
days is the acoustic tuning and making a club feel
lively to mentally keep someone in aged in the game
and feel like they hit a better.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Shot that one went to the right, I can tell.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
But so you got plenty of distance that's longer than
yours as well. Let's try it one off the tee.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Okay, I felt real good.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
That looks real good right down the middle. Yep, I
think you caught that a little bit thin. Perhaps really
didn't he like you didn't have as much carry. But
so here we go. It's right in there with the
tailor made. You're not getting as much clubhead speed out
of it as a tailor made, but your launch angle
went up a little bit, your spin went down. Remember

(50:41):
I said that the Nike covert head design is a
low spin head design.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
It's your spin dropped.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
It really is, your spin dropped one thousand rpm. The
shaft also could be part of that. The Mitsubishi Kurakagi
red is a very good shaft also, So right there
with the tailor Maid within one and a half yards.
And this thing statistically isn't that accurate. So you're in

(51:09):
a dead heat right now, your best against your best.
Though the tailor Maid still is a two twenty one
versus two eleven, so it appears the tailor made when
you take both numbers together. The issue is, though in
this one, you seem to have a bias a twenty
two yards right a center, and the only one you
hit straightaws the tea.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
So that may not be the best one for you
because it's about the tailor made with that sheft with
that because you were commenting, this sheft probably enhanced.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Yeah, that would be a most of it, though, is
I would guess in the head design, by moving the
weight forward you can lower spin, And by digging out
the cavity in the back of the club and moving
more the weight forward, that's probably as much or more
of the difference in spin. Tailormate actually isn't that much
different with all the extra metal with the speed slot.

(52:03):
But you know, sometimes you just don't know where it
comes from. I can guess and postulate here, and some
engineer at the company would probably say, I'm nuts and
full of beans. So let's go on a ping.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Okay, immediately, it's got a very different grip. It's got
a very it's a thicker and softer grip.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
Yeah, that may take a bit of getting use to.
I just pulled out the demos we had here. Yeah,
so in your flex in that loft, that's the one
I had, so hopefully.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
And see how it feels kind of neat. I actually
kind of liked this softer feel. Well, I never understood
what to look for in a grip.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Go go, go, there you go. I like getting off
the tea, went off the tant.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Gonna give me the one? Huh Okay, that was so
much fun, all right? So another swing with the ping
off the deck now.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
Way right again, and sometimes too when I see somebody
hitting it to the right, and and I'm not sure
if you're doing this or not, but if you have
some steering thoughts in your head trying to redirect that, no,
why don't you play step back away for sick and

(53:38):
just pick a spot left to center and just just
play a five to ten yard shade, okay, and just
be comfortable with it and swing.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Ook at it.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Sometimes when you do that and you take those steering
thoughts out, you actually swing and you swing free and
release and you lose a lot of the fade just
a little bit. So that was that was pretty dead
straight there. So we'll look at the numbers on the
ping speed wise right in between the nike and the

(54:15):
tailor made ball speed wise the same launch closer to
the tailor made and uh spin numbers right in between
and h carry distance right in there with them, and
uh the differences though on the offline U S.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
One was it's it's it's it's.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
A little bit straighter there.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
So the last one, that's a big one. I'm gonna
unless you love the Nike, I'm gonna scrap that right now.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
I would scrap. Okay, just keep in mind the shaft
you like. And uh so what do you want to
try next? What do you got?

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Well, looks like you got always one of those. It
seems like a four or even a five wood might
be the fairway driver of choice for you.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
And why would you go five wood on the uh
callaway versus what you were doing with the others?

Speaker 3 (55:15):
Me put a little bit of tape on. Sure, Sure
I didn't do that before we started today.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Uh well, not necessarily on the.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Callaway only, But because you're launching consistently slow low with
all of these clubs for your fairway driver, my recommendation
might be to put you into a five wood hmm.
And and if we if we do that and the

(55:46):
company can re swing away the club and lighten it
up to like a three wood, and we can build
it to three wood length, you'd have a super high
launched three wood, and that might be the longest thing
for you.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Callaway ex hot. Now I've got a white shaft which
is really distracted. Alright, this one I'm hitting off the
t dead straight. Oh my gosh, that is going right
down the line and hit the line and it's rolling

(56:23):
down the line. Oh okay, I need to hit more
when you're not here, Nick.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
I did that on purpose, especially, it's all part of
the fitting. I'll disappear again.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Don't do that.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
That wasn't me at all.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
No, it wasn't because that was going right up the
line too, and farther a little bit off, a little
bit off, and.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
I'm going to delete the ping right now.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Oh really?

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Okay, yeah, yeah. The numbers on the ping clearly the
both the tailor made and the callaway for you seem
to be straighter and longer and more consistent. You really

(57:20):
did hit the line on that other shot, didn't you.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
I literally bounce and then just rolled on the white
as it was a yo yo or something.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
You know. I think their fitting's over. Oh that's the club.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
This is the club.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
That's the club.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Would have an over show. Tell me more.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Callaway so slightly slower swing speed than the tailor than
both than the tailor made, and even just a hair
slower than the paying Okay, but the key is see
that launch at twelve four. Yeah, that's the highest launch.
It's the closest one to yours. So what we're looking
for is at thirteen to sixty ideally, and this is

(58:01):
it twelve four. So you're at twelve four. Your best
one was at thirteen to seven, so that was off
the tee. Yeah. Well but in any case, launching around
thirteen degrees and spinning around thirty one hundred, the shaft
in that club and the club head designed appears to

(58:22):
be giving you and your swing the best possible launch
and spin numbers lot lower on the spin numbers a
lot lower, significantly lower, so even.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Off of my club, significantly lower. So this is great.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
So the Callaway also carried seven yards further rounded than
the tailormaid and.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Almost twenty yards further than my club.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
Yeah, and it rolled out another three yards on top
of it or four yards on top of it, and
you got eleven yards over the tailor made and twenty
three yards over years.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
And to me, the most graphic thing that we're looking
at here comparing my club to the tailor made to
this callaway or wait, we're looking at the ping.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
I didn't change.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Okay, so this is the callaway? Is that my offline numbers?

Speaker 3 (59:12):
Straight down, straightly down there, You're straight down the middle.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Straight down the middle on this one.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
So longer, longer, straighter, longer on a carry, straighter, better trajectory,
more roll out everything. Wow, I'm not sure if we
can beat that. Yeah, I mean I was making a
bit was over because you hit the line, But it
appears that is indeed done.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, on that absolutely. Although really find this shaft distracting?
Why the white care? Get used to it?

Speaker 3 (59:49):
According to the numbers, you weren't distracted or whatever you
were distracted thinking about certainly worked. Maybe the shaft distraction
I took you out of your own head and you
put down a better swing. Who knows.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Okay, so get over it. It's like that's not going
to be the thing that stops you from making a purchase.
Right is the color of the shaft.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
I don't think we need an optional shaft. It's a
great shaft, good clumbhead is working great and both off
the tee and off the Okay, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
So we've we got it on the fairway with now
where we go, So it's so much fun.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Now we go over here and we'll go ahead, we
can delete your fairway information. We don't need that, and
we go over here and delete the tailor made. We
no longer need that. And so now we have one
hundred and sixty four yards on in your five iron,
and we have two hundred and twelve yards here. Now

(01:00:43):
we need to fill in the holes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Yeah, yeah, so that would be the hybrids.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Yeah, that'd be two or three hybrids. Okay, because we
need to go thirty five forty seven, forty seven yards,
So if we go fifteen fifteen fifteen, probably two hybrids
if we could hit, if we could hit one eighty
and one, a couple of hybrids, and.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
That's what I would pull out for the hybrids that
I have. You would, yeah, I mean those are the
numbers that I would look to. Yeah, one eighty and yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Yes, So you want to hit a couple with your
let's start with the uh this one here.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Okay, this is the four hybrid. This is mine, So.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
With a fairway? Would I was fitting you mostly for
distance because I know that's what most people want. Yeah,
but but I want I've been, we finish up with
the accuracy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah, I mean the accuracy distance is great, But as
long as I know what my distance is, I'm fine now.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
But accuracy is far more important now. With the hybrids,
it's not about distance at all. We don't care how
far you hit it. We want to hit a number,
and we have different lofts to hit those numbers. With
the hybrids, it's all about accuracy. So what we want
is a couple of hybrids. And intuitively, you can stripe
off the fairway and hit straight just like you would

(01:02:12):
hit your arms right right. So let's see how this
stacks up.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Okay, Yeah, it didn't feel so great, but it went
straight up the middle.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
That was a very nice one.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Actually. Wow, it went from the center line and went
on the right side of the line, then crossed over
on the left.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
That's to me, that's a draw and I don't do that.
That was the torque effect of a toe hit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Okay, No, that was definitely off the toe. Yeah, that
felt off.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
So we've got three, and you know, partially because we
had such great success with the callaway. With the callaway,
let's jump right over there and see what happens.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Okay, callaway ex hot come.

Speaker 4 (01:03:12):
We went.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Okay, fireman ready.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Oh why do you say?

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
Uh, you just carried it a bit beyond yours, but
also went offline. But let's try again. Okay, so we

(01:03:53):
got our three shots. Let's take a look at the numbers.
What was happening with your hybrid is it was launching
on the way in the high side and with quite
a bit of spin, so it was ballooning up and
the wind. I think your hybrid would not be uh
that reliable. So by comparison on the x hoot, instead
of getting seventy seven miles an hour, you got eighty three, so.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Picked up six miles an hour on the swing speed.
He picked up some serious speed.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Your launch was eighteen eight, which was compared to nineteen
seven eighteen four twenty three launched a little bit lower,
so it was much more ideal trajectory.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
And the spin again the.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Shaft in the callaway xhot wow, twenty four hundred RPMs
a spin. If we take the tape, you might pick
up a little bit more on that, but not really significant.
And see the descent tangle of forty one. So that's
coming down at a pretty good trajectory.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
But where did the descent of the ball flight. Is
that what that is? Yeah, we've not discussed that number.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
That means we did initially with the irons. If you recall, okay, so.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
That the descent angles once it reached the peak coming down. Yeah, okay, okay, So.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
You got one ninety five to two hundred and three,
so it's about ten to fifteen yards short. That would
fill right in, and we're twelve yards right of center
on average compared to twenty six forty one on average,
you're about twenty thirty yards right of center on your hybrid.

(01:05:28):
So we got you straighter, and we got one of
the distances plugged. So from this, it appears a five
and a six hybrid would work out really good to
plug in the holes and the six would drop back
up probably to one one seventy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
And can we try a different brand? Yeah, we can
try another one, because I mean we went with the
Callaway in this one because I had such success on
the three would.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
Well and there was the reason I went with the
Callaway too. I ever noticed the offset. Okay, So by
have example and that obviously that allows me to hit straighter.
Probably our best hybrid in the store is going to
be the rocketballs and take out their five and give
that a whirl.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
So this got this this swing slink that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
Yeah, that's the rocketball Stage two rocketball and it has
the as the speed slot.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Speed slot, that's what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
I think that's what they call it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Okay, that's what you're calling it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
Something like that. We'll get letters. That's not what they
call it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Like that one. There you go. Now we're gonna hit
it out the deck. It's good to see there's other
people trying out clubs here.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
I hit that h and I felt like I didn't
hit it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:59):
You're actually in that one really straight. Yeah, So coming over,
we'll compare those gallaway really quick. And as you can see,
your swing speed's about the same. Yep, your launch came
way down to thirteen eight And is that a good
thing with the hybrid for you? That's on a twenty
five degree hybrid. That's that's pretty low. And you'll hear

(01:07:22):
spin went up to forty one hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
RPMs from twenty four hundred.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
Yeah, you're better off launching high with a little bit
less spin. Yeah, And so that and my distance was down.
That's why your distance fell off twenty yards hybrid's hybrids
are bones in it down the line you were, that's
the trade off. Intuitively, it's probably even though this doesn't
have the offset, it's tailor made's black face white. It's

(01:07:50):
their trademark and one end, and some people scoff at it,
But a lot of people do see the line off
the face a lot better. So now we have a choice,
do you want the distance of the exot or do
you want do you want the alignability of this? But
this isn't launching, we would have to go. The problem
we're gonna run into with this is we're already up
to five and we can go to a six, we

(01:08:11):
can't go and the loft is really way too low.
So if we drop down to a four to get
our distance back, our launch angle is going to drop.
So even though you hit this the straightest for your
swing and positioning in the way way you attack the ball,
that one probably is not going.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
To be the best one. Okay, I'm gonna try something else.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
The other one that a lot of people really intuitively
set up with well m is actually the older.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
The older pings, they look more like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
The They look like an iron.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
Yeah, but they also look at when when the Hybrids
first came out and they were called rescue clubs, they
kind of had a face.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
Like this, didn't they some of the original ones, the
nick Kents and the original Atoms, right exactly, we're very
similar and the can't more or less is no more.
And then Adams has gotten away from it, and the
new clubs look a little bit different. H wow, there

(01:09:20):
we go.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Didn't love it, didn't love the hit, but the direction
seemed to go very well. That felt good, It felt good,
and it looks good. Oh my gosh, it's gonna hit
the weight line and it missed it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:39):
Okay, we it's just a little bit offline.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
She looks, look at those numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Let's see these numbers.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
So our club had speed dropped a little bit. And
I believe that is because after a bit shorter. Okay,
so it's a bit, it's a bit easier to control.
And uh, actually it's also because that first hit was
seventy four. You catch that a little bit fat, so
we could redo that off the tea. In fact time,
we go ahead and scrap that one because that was

(01:10:14):
a bit of a mishit.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
So then our clubhead speed is do you want me
to hit one more.

Speaker 3 (01:10:18):
Yeah, let's hit one more off the T. I to
feel about that one?

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
I liked it? Okay, how did it feel about me?

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
Pretty darn good? Just a little bit longer. That perfect
hit off the T just what we needed.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Good. So now let's see the numbers.

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
Now we'll go look at the numbers, and so what
we have is, on average were dead center. Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Wow, that's closes.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
And the speed's just about the same or hair lower
than the rocket ball. It's in the same ballpark. Actually,
your launch angle is in between, so it's launching higher
than the rocketballs. And even though you launched it on
here two point six degrees left, you had three hundred
RPMs and right hand side spin which brought you back
to center. Your spin numbers are in between. So you

(01:11:11):
have a little better green holding ability than the callaway.
And but you're not gonna blooon up like the tailor
made in this particular case. And you have like one
hundred and eighty eight yards and kick and release, say
one ninety probably one ninety one ninety two would probably
be going into night screen, which kind of fills that hole. So,

(01:11:33):
but the key is the dead center. Ye intuitively, because
the face on this looks like an iron. You set
this up dead square, and in my opinion, if you
can't line up your hybrid and intuitively it doesn't square
to the target, then you know you should go in
and check something else out. So I think for you,

(01:11:54):
that's a that's a great fit. And so I would
probably go with a twenty three and a twenty degree.
Now I would go with a with a twenty three
degree and the twenty seven degree, okay, And that would
plug in right in between your four wood at two ten,
and then you would drop down to one ninety five,
and then you would drop down to probably one seventy

(01:12:18):
five numbers hal your one sixty five, and you have
really nice spacing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
So you think I should stay with my five iron
the way it is, or replace that with a hybrid or.

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
Kind of like you know, we just we just did
a few shots because we're limited by time here. You
know you're gonna know the answer to.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
That, Okay, all right, well let's let's move with that
over time. That would probably be the choice then from
the hybrid side, right.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
Yeah, things, I think these pings intuitively you set up
and line them up just great. Yeah, So I think
the older ping g twenties because we're not looking for distance,
we're just looking for an older club too. We're looking
for dead straight. So you get a really good value here. Awesome,
all right, can we do a driver on the driver
take years out hit a couple.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
And this again is my Jesse Ortiz Bobby Jones. Definitely
gonna have to put a different tea up.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
How's that one look perfect?

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
I actually tee it up based on a spot on
my finger, so I know it's the same every time.

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
Whatever gives you that consistency, right, It's all about confidence, right, Okay,
so this was my driver. Now you said earlier you

(01:13:52):
often start off any of your three woods off the take,
and then when you get kind of loose and comfortable, right,
get to your first wide open hole, then you take
out a driver.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
Okay, so you're not overly confident in your driver.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Not every day, some days.

Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
Unbelievably, that was pretty good. So come on over, yep,
and we'll take a look at those numbers. So in
your driver we go back over to the same optimization
chart we'll use for the quote fairway driver or your

(01:14:28):
callaway forward in this case, but this was designed originally
for a driver. So we have one hundred and thirty
five mile hour ball speed puts us in the regular
flex range. But in the higher side your best swing
was one thirty eight, so it's a shy the stiff
flex range. So you could go with the stiff flex
arguably too so, but for the optimization purposes, we'll use

(01:14:52):
the regular flex chart. We want thirteen to sixteen launch
just like your fairway, and twenty four hundred thirty one
hundred RPMs to spend.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
So we're launching at eight point four.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
We're four four and a half degree shy of the
lowest decent launch angle to optimize a driver, So your
driver loft is actually killing your distance. Where'd your driver go?

(01:15:22):
So you have a ten to five there? Okay, So
let's start out with a Nike just because it's probably
the easiest driver to adjust in tune. And what we're
gonna do really quick, because you play for that fade
is we're gonna take it apart here and we're gonna

(01:15:44):
go from ten to five all the way up to
twelve five and sort of go right up there, and
then we're also going to set it. Oops, did I

(01:16:06):
say this was the easiest to adjust. So it's just
really simple. You dial in your loft, you dial in
your bias. We'll give you a little bit of a
left bias, and.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
Once it's set, you're done. If you have all your
numbers correct, you.

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
Have all your numbers screen. The only thing is, like
you mentioned bandon or if you're playing into scramble, you
want to go for that long drive or something, you
can drop your loft down to keep it out of
the wind.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Is this a problem that there's tape stuck on here?

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
That's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
So this is the one I was telling you about.
A friend of mine had and I just I don't
usually do this, but he had just won this in
a contest and I said, oh, let me hit it.
And I didn't take a big swing. It was like,
take a nice, easy swing and it out drove my
two best drives of the day by twenty five five yards.

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
I was like, Okay, I think I need to go
get fit again and see if this, in fact I
do it. On is the wrong driver for me.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
The only thing I want to do is if you
play a fade with yours normally on this one, I
just want you to target it right dead straight.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
See, sometimes sometimes I hit it dead straight. I mean
I'll lame for dead straight, and sometimes it happens.

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
That's well, when wet and the bias built into this,
maybe I hit it a few more times.

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
That one we got right.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
So we'll take it up to these three about the
same clubhead clubhead speed and the same ball speed. You know,
the face inserts are kind of controlled by the USGA,
so you're beginning about the same speed and the same
pop off the face and the difference here we went
from eight four up to ten four. We gained a
couple degrees of launch, and that included the ones that
hit it six to four. So if we take that out,

(01:17:57):
then we're averaging right around thirteen or twelve thirty, which
is about where we want to be, and our spin
rate is about the same. But if we can come
in at that launch angle with a little bit of spin,
the that gets us out there. We have about five
and a half six yards of extra carry average the
best over best we have to eighteen two twenty. Actually

(01:18:21):
the best one with yours was a bit longer, but
it was a forty yard left center full hook. So
we'll do is we'll take both of those out since
both of those balls are gone and he's in the
two best and the two best, so so hit.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
This one straighter.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
So you hit it straight there and further and without
better launch. It's five degrees.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Interesting, but maybe there's something better. Yeah, you seem to
keep doing this.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Try the titleist.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
Okay, now we're going titleist.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
We'll just stay with the titleist and then I'll get
the table and makes money.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
All right? Well yeah, m we the offline was good

(01:19:18):
on that. The distance wasn't bad either. Let's try again.
Don't try to kill it either, mkay. Let's try the
R one Okay, and this being the next Tailor made
R one, the white the painted white head. You can

(01:19:40):
see the line better as it's making the contact. That
white really stands out. Interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
Well, based upon the three hits, I don't think this
is the one for you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
Yeah, I didn't like it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
We'll give it one more, Troy. There you go. It's
the longest one. Yeah, that's the reason why Tailor made
is number one driver and golf.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
Interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
So let's speak of those numbers and see what we
got here. So first off, I'll go over to this
screen here so you can just see what the trajectories are.
The white one is down kind of low right there.
Let me see our shot circles right here. Noticing the
tailor maid has got the one. Well, we didn't delete
the one. We didn't well, we deleted a bunch, but

(01:20:39):
taking your two best shots, you still had the biggest
shot circle by far of all the clubs and going
all over the place. Yea, and the shot circles for
your club and the titleist and the.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
Thing paying the covert who were oh we different did
a Calloway driver did?

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
No, we didn't so yeah, And looking at the numbers,
the tailor made you seem to be all over the
map and have had an awful t hard time hitting Yeah,
for whatever reason. It could have been the balance could
be the colors could be your you're worn out and
we won't want to finish this another time. But both

(01:21:22):
the both the titleist and the Nike were longer than yours.
And the biggest change is loft, right is you need?
You need twelve degrees plus or minus uh plus a
little maybe loft on your driver, and that's gonna get
you up the right way changle. The Titleist was set
for eleven degrees. The Nike was set for twelve and

(01:21:42):
a half, and you see have nine degrees to twelve
point four compared to your seven point six. And and
then you have the side spin. Yours had fifteen hundred
seventy five RPMs a slice spin on it. The Nike
had eight hundred. Titleists only had five. So the titleist
is flying the straightest of the bunch. Spin rate, your

(01:22:06):
back spin was the lowest on the titleist. Probably the
best shaft of the bunch that they put and done
in their h Yeah, that'll be the last one. And
uh so the titleist was the longest, and uh we
didn't take out the one pole hook, but if we do,
then it was the straightest as well.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
Yeah, okay, titleist is in the lead right now, and
we have one more that we can give a shot.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
And that one more there is to make sure I
got this set about right. So set square. We're gonna
give you a little bit of a left bias, okay,
so you don't have to worry about your slice. You
can try going right down the middle. And actually this

(01:22:52):
one we've got SS for square see is for closed.
It was for open light up the two lines. This
is here we have a slight left side bias and
we have eleven and a half degrees, which would be
about right for you.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
And now we go with the ex hot on the callaway.
Didn't love the swing.

Speaker 3 (01:23:20):
No, it's not right there, we're just run seck. I
went over. Yeah, take it look real quick. There's our
twelve eight thirteen degree launch. There's a twenty four hundred
RPMs to span two twenty two a Carrey. It just
smoked everything. And I didn't love the swing, and you
didn't love the swing? Wow, I do one more yep, wow, Yeah,

(01:23:46):
you just don't know what's gonna work best.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
Sometimes it's amazing. It's amazing that these clubs are not
all the same.

Speaker 3 (01:23:53):
But that's the beauty of having access to all these
brands and fitting cards as opposed as opposed to just
having you know, one line of equipment that I'm on
staff for last thing of the day. I want you

(01:24:13):
to play a little draw on this. Start this out
a bit right, because you appear to be hitting a
really nice draw without that driver, right wow.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
Yeah, okay, so let's compare the numbers and wrap this
puppy up.

Speaker 3 (01:24:41):
Yeah, so I don't know you're pretty good at the
numbers at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
The ball speed well, the clubhead speed same as mine. Right, yep,
ball speed, faster, angle right where we wanted. A twelve right.

Speaker 3 (01:25:02):
Thirteen probably would have been better, but real close.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
Backspin twenty eight one hundred, twenty nine hundred lower than
right smack in the middle. I want to be and
better than all the other clubs.

Speaker 3 (01:25:18):
Yeah, five hundred better, six hundred better, and nine hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
Better than on mine.

Speaker 3 (01:25:23):
Yeah, so better launch, the second best launch far, best
spin rate and carry distance gave me even though you're
thirty two yards left to center. Yeah, that's the way
I had the head adjusted, so we can adjust that.
So we can adjust that back out. But your shot
dispersion was within one yard of each other. You hit

(01:25:44):
the same line each time.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
Okay, so that's just an adjustment of the club.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
And then the distance I smoked everybody on the carry
it was almost thirty yards more than my.

Speaker 3 (01:25:58):
Club, twenty seven yards further than your club on the carry,
and twenty seven yards twenty eight yards rounded on the
crawl out.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
Wow, so this doesn't take a lot of adjustment, but
you would say this would be my club.

Speaker 3 (01:26:14):
Yeah, just adjust it back to neutral. I wouldn't change
the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
Other than that, Wow, So I think twenty to thirty
yards longer.

Speaker 3 (01:26:21):
How many times have you heard that clim yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:23):
Right exactly on TV but never run this. So basically,
I think that what we've learned is that these the
fitting is critically important to really learn the difference in
all the clubs because they're so radically different that it's
really important to get fitted to find out what's best
for you. And we're all over the map. We're on
Callaway Ping PINGA, the hybrids, Calabrids and Callaway D and

(01:26:50):
the driver.

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
But it's important to have an open mind, yeah, because
for different reason. There's so much technology and there's so
much performance built into these drivers. But everybody's different. They
see something different, they put it down, they swing different.
They something about the club bugs them or they like it.
The balances are slightly different, the shafts are slightly different.

(01:27:13):
And making sure that you I mean, you walked in
here with a ten point five ten point five degree
and you're looking at eleven point five and you're walking
in with a five year old shaft and you're going
out with one of the best standard shafts in golf
right now. But as you can see, the club head
speed and pop off the face is actually pretty similar
because the USGA is regulating that. So it really is

(01:27:34):
a lot of it is really about to fit Nick.
Thank you again, Thanks again, Buddy, I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
That was awesome. The key is you need to get fitted. Clearly,
every club had a different reaction to my swing, different results,
and we found the clubs that work best for me.
Got to get fitted for your clubs. Never let me
know you al anyway. M

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